[SPEAKER_00]: Like a dream scenario to score, a theme for or the whole movie, anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ho!
[UNKNOWN]: I said rapid fire, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think you meant it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go X-Men.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just go X-Men, I'll just
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, welcome back to another episode of Friends From Work.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a podcast about all things in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and it's a podcast hosted by myself, Kyle Sconowell, and my longtime friend, from work, Robby Earl.
[SPEAKER_00]: Robby, I just got back from a little, just a little quick trip, a little jaunt this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, one of those trip paths kind of, yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, people don't have song, but they don't realize that the records after are so freaking cool, raise the dead as cool, um, devastating is so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check them out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, um, good, did you know, um, that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Phantom Planet, originally had, or that Jason Swordsman was an original member of Phantom Planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: My brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am, like, a day one, and you like a fan, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the truth.
[SPEAKER_03]: A Phantom Head over here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I am, and we did listen to that song because I was in California.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those trips where it's kind of hard to adjust back to real life when you're not waking up next to the California coast without much to do other than just like drive around.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: to this terrible vocal, and I got to print stems and it's a little bit hard to readjust.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I flew to San Francisco, so shout out, I wanted to shout out our California listeners.
[SPEAKER_00]: I flew to San Francisco, spent some time in Half Moon Bay in the Monterey Peninsula, and then we road tripped.
[SPEAKER_00]: highway one all the way down by Big Sur got the pictures by Big Bee Bridge had lunch at that one restaurant that's in the middle on the cliff and drove down to Malibu and LA and did a bunch of like walking and shopping and eating and then stayed at a really nice hotel in Newport Beach and flew home so it was awesome and you know I'm driving by the coast on the south side of highway
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of when you go past San Luis Obisbo and start getting closer to Malibu.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels so much like Iron Man too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know if they did, but you remember when he's driving his car real fast on the on the PCH and then he's got the, what is it called?
[SPEAKER_00]: The structure thing in the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like the background.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, diaphragm, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that called?
[SPEAKER_00]: Diorama.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you don't talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they filmed it right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could be wrong, but it sure feels like you enter I'm in territory What is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: One six four Malibu point or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dang it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I knew that But anyways, anyways, anyways, I'm back and Shoutout to our California listeners.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a beautiful state.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an expensive state.
[SPEAKER_00]: My gosh, but it's beautiful
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, uh, speaking of since we probably won't get to, uh, to talk about this, uh, naturally in any other way, uh, new, uh, John Faber movie coming out soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mandalorian Gruggo?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: First this, first time he's had a movie in theaters in a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, have you heard it all about the sheep detectives?
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you heard any of us?
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been wanting to see it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've heard it's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're super disappointed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on a good night, we're going to New York City this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's our 15 year wedding anniversary, 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all we're getting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we looked up tickets to go see the Sheep detectives in Times Square, and it's already being pulled out of theaters, at least in New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we might go see Amanda Lauren and Groger.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was going to go see that movie, and we had a funny journey with that movie, because we saw the trailer a long time ago, and it looked super goofy, and we were laughing about it my wife and I.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're like, we kind of both want to see that weirdly, like even those of the weird trailer, like that would be our scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, yeah, we're used to are coming out that it's like, generationally good, apparently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just like unbelievably good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so became like a running joke, like, well, now we have to go see the sheep detectives.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't wait to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyways, I, our friend Emily, friend of the pod,
[SPEAKER_00]: really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, before we get into Daredevil, how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything new with you this week?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, um, uh, did you go to California or New York?
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not go to California or New York.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's it's a pretty, uh, it's a pretty quiet week.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think just good.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're we're going to have like a low key Memorial Day.
[SPEAKER_03]: weekend, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: No concerts this time, which is, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've only been listening to Dave Matthews on repeat and Spotify since obvious.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, like every other week, flute solos.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have been thinking a lot about the Mandalorian movie just because, you know, it's been so long since we've had a Star Wars movie and for some reason, I'm getting the sense that it's ultimately going to be like a fine movie is kind of the early consensus that I've seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a forever story.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you guys doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just really want it to work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think I just like the people involved in it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that they, you know, like, I know that that John Favreau and Dave Filoni both believe in, you know, their vision of Star Wars and, you know, I just feel like,
[SPEAKER_03]: I want Star Wars movies to be good and for people to be excited about them and I think it's generally more fun when that's the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've just kind of been keeping an eye out and hoping that some excitement is generated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel no buzz and it's crazy that Kyle Sconoville is sitting here saying that because I grew up a Star Wars fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Star Wars is basically like what Marvel could have been in an alternate universe in a bad way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where I was so in and they just by port decision, port decision, port decision, port decision totally lost me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally lost me too, where
[SPEAKER_00]: not trying to be like anti Star Wars YouTube guy or anything, I just find myself having no interest watching any of this stuff anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I didn't watch second season, Mandalorian, I didn't watch a soka.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see the I got a screener to the Darth Maul thing, haven't watched it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just literally went from the dark mountains.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even a it's I'm not critiquing it because I haven't seen this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have no interest anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like this movie, I wish it was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope it's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they aren't trying to make it a kid's movie, so I know there'll be some reviewers who are frustrated that's not adult enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love John Favreau both as a director, but also as a human.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whenever I listen to him talk about it, he does have a hair for the source material stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just don't care, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even this is the most plastic thing ever, even and or season one too, which is so good, it was a little bit of work for me to like watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it's, it was so well done, no critique, but preference wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like,
[SPEAKER_00]: had to be like, okay, I want to wash this for the pod and even when it was good, I was like, okay, that's yeah, there's a title of really.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, but you know, like I do, uh, yeah, I think part of that is I still think it's just I don't know that I've ever seen the hopping between mediums thing done
[SPEAKER_03]: like, as well as everybody hopes to do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: One said to be, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I, because like, and doors incredible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're about to talk about Daredevil, born again, which is incredible.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm not ever gonna wish those projects away.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that, you know, Daredevil, in part, I think it works so well because they have let that be a thing where it sort of exists in its own.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's in the MCU now more.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've talked about how the more they incorporate
[SPEAKER_03]: But I, you know, I still do think it's a tricky thing, like even as I'm kind of going through the rewatch and I think you're getting just about cut up with me, which is great because we're kind of entering this home stretch of 2026.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a dimstay and we'll kind of be on track.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like every time I hit a series, I just like grind to a hole.
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes me forever and it has nothing to do with the quality of the series.
[SPEAKER_03]: early on like one division always goes by super fast because the episodes are short and there's their fun to watch and then you know Loki is so like it's still can take a little bit but that also moves pretty quickly and it's early in the in the watch order but by the time you
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't know if I can, like I wonder if some of the Star Wars stuff is partially yeah, the rise of Skywalker disappointment, but also then it's like how many people now feel like
[SPEAKER_03]: they don't necessarily know how to jump back in because they haven't followed all the Disney plus stuff since we're in the skywalker.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that way, it's almost a props to Marvel then because you're saying they're facing the same challenges and Marvel is holding on to some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say more than Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, part of that, yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a medium thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: By nature,
[SPEAKER_00]: you have to watch five hours versus two and a half.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, or six or seven, sometimes it's gonna be that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally am on, I feel like in the Multiversaga, the rewatch stretch of love and thunder, Loki, quantum many, Loki season two, and no way home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even including Hawkeye is probably my favorite stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when I go through that, it's so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like the way we moved quantum media around, it really improves both seasons of Loki and that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, I'm with you, for me, just preference-wise, not quality-wise, it comes to a grinding halt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Going from echo, shungchi, mismarvel, shihawk, Wakanda forever is probably my least favorite stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not that all those things are bad, but like, I just, it's a grind for me to get through those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I that's actually going to tie into what I was going to say about born again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so here's going to happen today.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to we're going to reflect on our final words on born again season two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to be joined by the Newton brothers to talk about their work with the music from that show, both actually the first season and second season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll close us out with some thoughts of where could Daredevil as a character and the show go in season three and beyond.
[SPEAKER_00]: So briefly, before the Newton Brothers sign on here, what are kind of your lasting thoughts of Daredevil born against his due?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything you want to say to close us out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me quick say, it does the Kingfin stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was a delight for me to be sinking up in my rewatch with Hawkeye and Echo right when I'm also closing out born again season two so like there was a lot of that world for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know their devil shows up in an echo at the beginning
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it does fit kind of the exact tone, and I haven't got to the echo finale yet, which is the one episode where like if you just chop that off, then I think you go from there and you'd be golden with with Fisk.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I even like Fisk in Hawkeye.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like how Hawkeye is trying to avoid him getting involved, like at all costs, even he's like, we don't want this to be the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't think he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what we saw we say about pulling him out of the shadows, being a mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I still stand by that, but he isn't weak in that show.
[SPEAKER_00]: He really does man handle Kate until like explosive arrows and then he's run over by a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like he, you know, he rips a car door off.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is clearly super human in his strength, even in that show.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the dread is there like the way he's got the ticks with talking to her mother and how she can't get out of the business on the way causey is terrified of showing up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even in echo, like I think where Fisk works the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: is do you remember that scene echo where she's like being um, mischievous and she like breaks the motorcycle out of the glass and she's going to get arrested by like 15 cops and all that happens is this car pulls up.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets out and all the cops like stand down and go like, yeah, you know that is there's this cool song playing and it's almost terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how can this guy is walking and say she's coming with me, not with you and all the police have to disagree to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That part of it is not only a great
[SPEAKER_00]: Seth, do you have a little side note?
[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoyed that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I do feel like he's been pretty consistent.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think if anything, I wish that there was a little bit more intentionality about bridging the gap between exactly where we left him at the end of season three and where he picks up in Hawkeye and Echo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do appreciate that Echo tried to do a little bit of that with the flashback.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, man, the further I get from, from born against season two, uh, the happy I am with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I, I say that I didn't sound like I entered it unhappy.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were both super high on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's just, it's nice because I,
[SPEAKER_03]: I've thought about it a good bit, which is always a good sign, like it stuck with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking about it more than I am, the Punisher special at this point, which is also kind of telling, although that's largely preference, but I think my big takeaway and we can get into more of this after we talk to the, the noon brothers, but
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think that it was truly a unique thing that, you know, like at this point, they've made so many shows, they've made so many seasons of Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then all of these other, like, we've talked about them doing kind of comedy and sci-fi
[SPEAKER_03]: like there's there's a world where this was just not anything new or anything worth talking about where it was just kind of great but you know more the same and maybe there are people that are upset that it isn't more of the same like that that's still just want them to keep doing different versions of season one or season three.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm so happy with the way that they have moved the ball forward on a character level, while still keeping things consistent and honoring the roots of the characters.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the season as a whole did totally different stuff with all the characters that we know and took them into new places and put them into different kinds of situations where we had to
[SPEAKER_03]: with Matt in a whole new kind of predicament that we've never seen, it means that we kind of, we get to end it excited for yet more evolution.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, we talked about all the technical stuff and we'll talk about that more.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I just think as a whole, I'm really grateful for the direction
[SPEAKER_03]: that they took this series and I'm hoping that they are able to continue moving in that direction for season three and that there's not some kind of change up depending on the streaming numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a follow-up to the streaming numbers thing, I want to correct something I said at the end of that episode two weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, there's no confirmation that they're moving off the show runner.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I'm almost certain that's not going to be the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I probably just read something BS.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think they're making any wholesale changes because of the streaming conversation we had.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think and someone can factually on this that it's actually been streaming fairly well per our conversation, post it coming out and all being out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when people do you find it, like I think it was still number three on Disney plus today, two weeks later.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when people go find it, I think they're going to find that it was really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm with you on all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my other lasting impacts of the series is that I feel like it paints season one in a better light.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'm very thankful for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think season one when I watched it, I was excited about Daredevil being back, but I don't think it aged as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were some things that even though week to week, I was excited that I now look back on and go, yeah, that felt a little segment about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like season two did a lot of work to enhance all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not fix, but enhance all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like plot holes or plot questions that were left dangling, they came back to in season two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just thankful that season two was just as quality as it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so thankful for the visual stuff and I'm so thankful for the acting performances.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it takes some time away from it to realize that the people who are crazy in the minority, but still upset about little things about born against season one or two, because there were still some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's such it's such a small minority when you get away from me realize like this has 90 something percent it's less than 5% of people and then it's probably even less than that because it's the people that are mad enough to go on Twitter so I got to get off Twitter because it like that
[SPEAKER_00]: It was such a well-received season.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was deserving of all the praise, and I really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am excited to talk about, and I kind of doubled down on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm excited to double down on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this a little bit two weeks ago about where I think now we go, and I kind of want to hear your perspective from the comic run, because this is now setting up a famous comic story, and then I'll bring my more thought out perspective from the MCU side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But overall, my takeaway is it's really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Preference-wise, I still prefer Loki's season two in one division.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just watched Loki's season two, that's still just more my genre.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think on our website, I adjusted, it's right there in that tier as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have one division at S tier, and then we have Loki's season two, and then this show, ahead of Loki's season one, which I just rewatched, I think this was better, and definitely over the first season, and probably over Moonlight and Hawkeye, and shows like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna we're gonna come right back and when we come back, we're gonna talk with the Newton brothers and then after the Newton brothers and view more on where Daredevil can go in the future will be right back after a quick word from these sponsors
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the Newton Brothers, Andy and Taylor are long time friends of this podcast, is this their third appearance or second appearance, third, third appearance, we're so excited to talk to them and what they've done with season two, but also they've been crushing it just in major feature films for a while now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, these are some of the best in the biz and so without further ado, I'm excited to introduce you Andy and Taylor, the Newton Brothers.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, gentlemen, Taylor, Andy, the Newton Brothers, the best in the biz.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Friends From Work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this your third time or second time now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Third?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the third.
[SPEAKER_02]: Third, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Third.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your season veterans are the pot at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's actually kind of where I wanted to start here, because
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think the last time that or the last two times we talked to you all, you were kind of, you know, relaunching a Daredevil franchise, then you were relaunching a, you know, the storied Xman animated franchise.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you're able to kind of come back to Daredevil after having re initiated that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious, how does that change your process as you're coming in for a season two?
[SPEAKER_03]: When you've sort of already had the chance to work with the character and maybe get a feel for certain themes, do you have a different perspective, entering a season two?
[SPEAKER_03]: And if so, kind of how does that differ from the way that you approached it initially?
[SPEAKER_02]: that we're able to work with on a season two, because we kind of understand
[SPEAKER_02]: the character that we're living with musically speaking, but then also the relationship with the Marvel team is in a similar place in that we kind of have an idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say we totally understand because that's kind of part of the fun process every time is exploring what is
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... who the character is this season and what the challenges are this season so it's so there are always sort of new hurdles to sort of jump over but with a season two it becomes really fun because you can really flex on some of the ideas that you want to explore you know like ideas that uh... i think there was like an interesting thing when we're trying to figure out
[SPEAKER_02]: how we were going to play this sort of resistance theme that plays throughout this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there was an interesting moment where Taylor and I had been trying some work with some like, just simple bass guitar, like 8th and 16th note bass guitar, just very simple, but stripping out a lot of the other low end that we had in season 1, and it was sort of this idea of life.
[SPEAKER_02]: a bit more punk having a bit more punk rock to what is happening and we weren't sure if it was going to work but it was something like different from season one but we felt confident that we could try things like that and in doing that like big props to like the Marvel team
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Sun and Dario in a session, they were like, what is that?
[SPEAKER_02]: What is that guitar?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they soloed it and played it and they were like, that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want that to be one of the things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's just one example of something that we're able to do in a season two where it's like, let's maintain the themes and the idea and then add new themes and come up with sort of a new sound in places that we can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think too, there's always, as we're processing going through it, we're always filtering out new ideas, also taking in the consideration what we can expand on in the new show and what the creators want to do and also, you know, what the fans are liking and where we can push and sort of expand on those kind of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and speaking of things that you guys have expanded on, I love your use of organ and choir here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that there were hints of that for sure in the first season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, it's dialed up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like specifically a moment we can talk about is when Fisk enters the courtroom in the finale.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget the track name, but there's almost like a Russian men's choir kind of thing as kind of this operatic moment when he walks in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me just about choir.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about your usage of it, like your use of vocals on this, the whole soundtrack, and just also like what the thought was behind that specific cue.
[SPEAKER_02]: In season one, we had for Fisk when he was like being sort of devious, like under the radar.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had this sort of, uh, we had this male falsetto melody that would play, um, that would sing, not play, sing, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that one of you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it was one of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was one of us as like a demo idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when we recorded it, like, um, real singers sounded too good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there was sort of a, uh, a bad quality.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for what it's worth, like, just sort of a naked vulnerability of, like, this is, this is just a demo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but then that's due to the rest of my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in this moment we had this idea like Taylor and I were like riffing on that scene for a while because it's a big moment when he comes in and we were like What if we pay off that theme but it's no longer a solo male falsetto vocal but instead it's like a huge like male choir singing the same thing and not falsetto
[SPEAKER_02]: You're the same idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's really tough.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really tough, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know when you hear songs, as musicians, you hear songs, you're like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's such a great idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and it's so easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could have done that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not I could have done that, but we always have that moment in anything, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: A movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I've had that idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could have done interstellar, whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But the execution of like you standing there in a towel after you get out of the shower like at an easel like to paint something is like a very like, oh, like what am I going to do like what color pay up like clearly Taylor and I are using red today.
[SPEAKER_02]: So today we're going to pay with red like.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's such a weird thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, all to say like presenting that piece was like very nerve-wracking We didn't even present it first.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we presented it third.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were like here's option one Here's option two and here's option three and then and then they all do sort of this like one two three Everyone pick and they all picked that version, which was great Anyway, that was a much longer story than you wanted, but it's very relevant
[SPEAKER_01]: We recorded most of the choir in Vienna at the Synchron stage and from season one we actually are assistant Lily Marlubitz.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was doing demos to mock up for soprano singers and unbeknownst to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has an amazing voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it became the sound of the female singer sort of the sound of the show that you hear throughout is her voice because we ended up just kind of falling in love with her voice and the way it sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that as we expanded season two we sort of had more of the choir and Vienna supporting her voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: and sort of gives making it sort of a bigger or or at moments more intimate on ensemble, depending on what was happening on screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was great to play with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have a lot of she also can write in Latin and and so if so does Andy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we we there's a lot of Latin in the show and it's just really adds an authentic element I feel to
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually so happy to hear that, though, because I, you know, I produce music and I'm always trying to wonder, like, are you faking a lot of these choirs?
[SPEAKER_00]: But you actually went to Vienna and recorded a choirs.
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes me happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the voices are all real.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's either me, Andy, Lily, or the beautiful choir.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you guys sound amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious, when you talk about that process of kind of pitching different themes, different versions of themes, musically, how often do you find yourself getting into a conversation with the showrunners about what's deriving that decision, like about the kind of your underlying
[SPEAKER_03]: like story motivation or how you think that this sort of fits with the overall project versus just the actual kind of technical execution side.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it always usually starts with a conversation and we've usually read the scripts and kind of getting an idea of what they are wanting to go for emotionally or what they're trying to get across to the audience or in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we used, I usually feel that we have a lot of ideas and then we sort of hone it down to, let's say, three or four new themes
[SPEAKER_01]: And how we want to develop those characters that, you know, as you saw, you know, muse and season one, and now you see in season two, and you see sort of what's happening with Heather, and, you know, the even the theme for muse is, it's starting to change because it's obviously not, it's not exactly muse.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think understanding what the goals of the creators are and trying to understand that.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then giving pitching ideas and what happens which is always wonderful is when there's a collaboration, you know, they have ideas, they hear our stuff and it informs a change of direction and then we sort of give them something else and surprise them because it's always about trying to give them something that they have an idea but you sort of out outpace that idea or you out, you know, give something that maybe they that hits home to them that they feel like is working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's very collaborative, like it's such a wonderful team that we get to work with on these shows and like, you know, like the win king pin has his boxing match that episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sana had like initially like we did something for that scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a tough scene because it's like what he's coming in.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of the scene is light.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's coming into this boxing match, but then it gets dark and we were sort of trying to all like collectively figure out like what is the tone and like that was a fun situation where even one day Sana brought in just some like some like band music and was like
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I don't want this, I don't want this sound, but like, I want this attitude, you know, and that's like a really cool like discussion to have, and everyone always gives, there's, there's a very good dialogue around all of the important scenes, and I think that that's very helpful for us, even like what is not working and what is working, it's very, it's very helpful to discuss it, and Dario always has a good idea of like understanding like,
[SPEAKER_02]: If this is the scene we're looking at, he's like, well, this is what preceded it, and this is where we're going, so this is what we need.
[SPEAKER_02]: This to be, which I think is very incredibly insightful and very important for us musically.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Brad always has such an amazing sense of like where everything should be and what everything means.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we get in these deep discussions often, and it's wonderful because they all have a really great point.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're all Daredevil fans.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they love the comics.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, nothing is more heartbreaking when you're on an object.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the people who are sort of in charge or are helping creatively, they don't necessarily connect with the material.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone loves Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all connect to the material.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all want to show to be great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really inspiring for us to sort of like, be the best it can be.
[SPEAKER_00]: first dumb question of the day on that note.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you guys ever able to just be fans of it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like do you get to the premiere or the finale and go dang?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they took what we did and that really worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it just not my scene, you know, I did this stuff, but yeah, I mean, like are you able to just appreciate it, ever?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're always super, we're definitely appreciating, I think when you're in the thick of it, it's hard to have that sort of like perspective of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But afterwards, you know, you sort of look at it all and like, you know, like Vincent came up to us and
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the premiere and he was like, you know, I was expecting, you know, this low voice and, you know, but you know, it was just speaking in a normal voice and and he was very appreciative of the music and he said, thank you and Charlie gave me a hug and like, you know, the guys are just super sweet and I feel like, you know, you
[SPEAKER_01]: You really, it really lands on you how lucky you are, you know, and, and, you know, even just like Brad and Son of, you know, saying great job and congratulations.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, those things, I mean, you're, you're wanting everyone to experience, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know what you experienced as a fan in the comics and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like we sort of in the beginning there's a lot of excitement and then the middle there's just a lot of like you know like you're you're going into it and then at the end there's like oh wow, you know, I think I think does that's sort of the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's like when you're making the song you're like this is the coolest song I've ever made you bounce it out the next morning you listen to your earpods you're like this is terrible I should quit how can it sound is bad it's like you're the only the whole time the whole time there yeah and there are moments where we you know like the episode where where we where we lose
[SPEAKER_02]: Daniel like that was so Taylor and I that was a moment where we were able to like fan out in this session this the spotting spotting sessions where you you know You watch the show down and take notes on
[SPEAKER_02]: where music should be, or shouldn't be, and what kind, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in this potting session, usually you're kind of paying attention, like taking notes, like making mental inventory of like, where things should be, thematic ideas, arc.
[SPEAKER_02]: That one episode, we got to the end, and I was like, sorry, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I blacked out on notes on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was just so invested in the story in that whole episode I like fanned out on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big testament to like all the writers and the producers and the editors who like do this great job of like getting this Thing put together and you know in a place before it's done and I think there were actually three episodes where I kind of had like a blackout mom and like oh, man We're gonna have to we're gonna have to rely on other people's notes on this because I just fanned out the whole time
[SPEAKER_01]: And the silence in the room was very quiet.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we were all sitting there sort of just staring.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, it was a moment, yeah, it's, yeah, it's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the geeky moments for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now that's cool to hear.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny because Kyle and I talk about that even just from the podcast perspective, we're watching episodes and sometimes, you know, you're keeping in mind the whole time, the notes and the things that you want to hit and make sure that you discuss.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then sometimes, I just look up and I haven't taken out any notes because I'm just so, you're so locked in and you're lost in it, which is the goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, for, for us at least, for you, you do have to be able to
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, that's, that's cool to hear.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I'm going to swore a little bit because now I'm just curious as we're talking about these, uh, these various episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Was there a particular approach that, that you all brought to the flashback?
[SPEAKER_03]: Episode, uh, when you were kind of,
[SPEAKER_03]: When you found out that you were going to be going back to this kind of season 1 era, was there anything that you wanted to bring that was a little bit different and maybe more reminiscent of the score from the original Netflix series, or was it something that you are wanting to kind of intentionally melt in with what you were already doing and link those themes back, or did you
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we definitely did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we love the original Netflix series.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're always thinking with what came before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think you have to think about what the new themes are and what the new sort of characters and how it's going to relate and change.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we wrote new things for Faggy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we changed them some stuff for obviously,
[SPEAKER_01]: and I think the biggest thing was sort of the emotional connection and the arc of the whole that whole episode and making sure that it really told a story that they were going for and and then we would sort of like you know we wanted to make sure that
[SPEAKER_01]: because we know how much foggy is a beloved character, you know, I mean, and he's such a great actor that, and it's, and it's something that I think, you know, when people lose someone that's one of their favorite characters, you always want to treat it with like kid gloves.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we really wanted to make sure that it landed
[SPEAKER_01]: And we stayed out of the way when we needed to and bring emotion and quiet when we needed to.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it definitely wasn't a bit of a dance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just like here's music.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was sort of like finding that, you know, and sort of on that sort of what came before situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it came up that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was curious if that was intentioner if you all just accidentally crushed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's good to hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a lot of effort went into that episode to make sure that everything sort of landed as it should, like, and how the whole, yeah, how it all just sort of, like, comes together at the end is really wonderful.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was definitely a lot of work on that episode, but I feel like it really came across nicely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, rapid fire three parter to get you out of here three parter one first question from our listeners is there a marvel character or film that you would like a dream scenario to score a theme for or the whole movie anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I said rapid fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'll go X man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just go X man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, okay, speaking on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell us anything about X man 97 season two.
[SPEAKER_00]: without going shop.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't get shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you guys will be very excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just what you liked about the first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just it's it's it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm I'm really really loving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, last question, unique here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there another composer that you guys feel like is just crushing it right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who are you dialed into that we should be dialed into?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you look at and go?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, they're they're really doing some incredible work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love that question There's so many.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a lot of good work out there right now I'm listening to a lot of bands right now, so it's like But it's a very nice
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, bands, I'm deep into turn style right now and loving turn style.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're headlining ACL here in the, yeah, I saw that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm an awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love this artist, Echo Vandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like she has a lot of, like, just, just, just, just, just, you got to see it with a, music video.
[SPEAKER_02]: E C C A Vandal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been thinking about you don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say one composer who I really love and I've loved for a while now, labyrinths.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love what you're doing outside.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there's been a lot that's come up recently, but I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: when he put out that first season of euphoria I was just like I loved everything that he was doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love him as an artist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love like how he treats.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean Taylor and I love to work traditionally but we also like we're 50, 50 like geeked on traditional and 50, 50 on on treating sounds and playing with stuff and I feel like he really like dives into like being unique and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I've been listening so much, we've been just based on what we've been working on lately, for what, you know, we've been looking at like a lot of like dark, vocal stuff and I've been listening to a lot of like death tones and old tool for what we're always, whenever project we're on, we're always looking back at like, or what artists can be work with on this and stuff or and and right now, so my head is fully much in and that land and
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was really bummed I couldn't see prodigy they were out here I was I didn't have the time but I really want to see that you know that those guys but
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we really want to see more from you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: How's that for a time?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thanks Kyle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll probably see you again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure in the next year or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of stuff coming up.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're really excited for you to talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for 97.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We crush that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just keep crushing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're such big fans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rob, they've now been on the show three times, and it just feels so natural.
[SPEAKER_00]: I legitimately look forward to talking to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they're becoming friends of the pod, like we always say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so after we hung up, we stayed in Chad for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just like, I'm gonna hang out with those guys, at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, it's just cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cool to hear the behind the scenes of the music stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's cool to hear about the behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_03]: that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we've talked about this with, with Daredevil born again all through season two, when I've said if you're someone that that loves the Daredevil character and especially
[SPEAKER_03]: some of these modern, more recent runs, like the Charles Sol and Zarski run, then I just don't, I don't get how you could not love what's happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's really, it's fun to hear that that really is the vibe behind the scenes, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like both from them on the music side, but also like the showrunners and the producers and everyone at Marvel that's speaking into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: love the character they want to do that character justice and that is like that's the thing that I'm always saying about Daredevil that I think makes it special is for you know I'm not saying it it a hundred percent hits but every time someone's writing or drawing a new Daredevil run there's this kind of
[SPEAKER_03]: added pressure.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's sort of like, okay, well, it's you know, it's Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is kind of what you take your big swing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't just do a like an average like a comic that would be like a good comic for a not Daredevil comic is like
[SPEAKER_03]: below average, you know, in the Daredevil context, because people's expectations are so high.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like they're kind of bringing that to the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just that it's the same thing that excited me, I think when we were first talking to like Henry Jackman way back and kind of hearing some of the thought process that went into that first winter soldier kind of kept America
[SPEAKER_03]: you realize the care that's going into it at every level and how none of it is none of it's just like throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks it's like there's a lot of craft both right like the the technical side and the thematics side my two favorite answers on the interview that was one of them
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, if you're a listener right now, you're thinking yourself, everyone's gonna say that because they're doing media for their thing, promotion for their thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I truly believe them when he says that, that the higher ups involved at Marvel and the people making the show care so much about the character.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it does reflect in the episode, but I also enjoy
[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy talking to people, even from films that we don't love, like when we talk to Julius from Brave New World, like we don't love that movie, but he cared.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he was really intentional about his decisions there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously a lot of stuff gets changed in editing process and all this stuff, but it's just always reassuring to hear they really care about the stuff they're making.
[SPEAKER_00]: My second favorite answer was when he talked about that Kingpin Q just because it's refreshing to know that they are like an even in the musical sense, taking swings, swings that make you nervous as an artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I want all of these makers to live.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what one division was is we're going to try some really weird stuff and it might not work, but the
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just had to like in my head the whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried to do something similar back to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and I also just think that is true.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, people are always going to say, oh, it was fantastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: We loved working on it because they're they're promo stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that that you start to realize when you talk to folks that there is the kind of
[SPEAKER_03]: promo answer, and then there's the answer when you really get into the weeds and they kind of they show and not tell.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I think it's like it's such a great look in a microcosm of what I think worked about this show, like the way that, you know, and they've been on before and talked
[SPEAKER_03]: on the first three seasons of Daredevil and you know they've obviously honored that bringing the theme forward but I like that they you know they again brought up today that they kind of wanted to have some connectivity there and and it does it makes me excited to
[SPEAKER_03]: they're going to be doing in an X-97 now that I've kind of, you know, now that we've seen what they did on a second go around like building things with with the Daredevil world.
[SPEAKER_00]: what that means now and maybe something else too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know, let's just say there were a few hints that there could be some more fun stuff coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, extra, extra thanks to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So fun that they take the time to jump on our podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna close out this entire Daredevil chapter, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_00]: With a reflection on or a prediction, now a prediction, a discussion, I guess, on where could this go going forward?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about this a little bit during the finale, so I won't be this to death.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a side note, it is always unique, probably, when you come to these episodes because we've been so in one world for like two and a half, three months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, prepping for it, watching it, discussing about it, and then, you know, doing like a reflection on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was always kind of weird to close the chapter, like I think now we're officially kind of going towards Spider-Man is what it feels like.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to be turning the page here.
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think season three could look like for Matthew for Fisk and do you think doomsday affects season three at all and do you think season three is where they ultimately and the show or is this a six season thing you know are like with the reboot or whatever you talking about are they going to keep making more dare double seasons or take a break with that you know
[SPEAKER_03]: won't impact it and probably shouldn't impact it just because I'm not sure that there's a way to halfway do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, we don't even know what it's going to be thinking about it in terms of like infinity war.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I just can't imagine how you could really reference
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, but like if it was like a blip moment could they make the season in the middle of that kind of like it made in the wasp was ish yeah, yeah I know is there some version of whatever that is an incursion has happened and now we're having to still deal with their implications and the show's not about that, but that's the world we're living in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've wondered that yeah, I mean, I almost
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's going to be so interesting and I'm not going to get into the doomsday sugar wars conversation too much because I want to focus on Daredevil, but I am, you know, if you follow the comic analog, you are looking at this massive world ending event.
[SPEAKER_03]: And a part of me just thinks that they did that so well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so decisively within finnity war and end game, that
[SPEAKER_03]: We may be looking at a slightly different version of it because I I kind of just don't I think we're finally getting the world kind of up and running again post post in game right like this is almost this isn't the end right it's the beginning they say one you know like the original secret ors from the 80s.
[SPEAKER_03]: the the whole thing is just all these these heroes are basically transported to a different planet right and none of whatever happens there ever really makes its way back to the world and so that will never be able to do that at all if they mess with that idea yeah so you know and and that i don't you know i think that they could find a way to do that combine with the hickman stuff and and you know maybe but in any event
[SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to Spider-Man, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I keep thinking about this and what we talked about the prediction of Daredevil showing up in Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_03]: And on the one hand, it seems so strange.
[SPEAKER_03]: to like I don't know if we have confirmation that that's the hand that he's fighting in the trailer or if it's just I don't think it's a I think does he seen inches and assume yeah I mean it it is weird to to think about if it is the hand for sure it's it's a strange inclusion if you're not going to link it into the dirtable mythology and I don't really know why you would have ninjas fighting spider man at all if you're not going to link it into the
[SPEAKER_03]: like a classic thing, so you know, and we've talked about the like spot in the trailer that they could have edited someone out of.
[SPEAKER_03]: But on the other hand, and you brought this up
[SPEAKER_03]: If the season 2 ending isn't really fulfilled, like if he just, if Spider-Man just breaks Matt out of prison, you know, maybe he breaks Matt out of prison and then Matt like turns himself back in and that's kind of a very Matt Murdoch thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's gonna break him out of prison.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if Matt's in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was, but you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like that immediately be like, oh, now he's out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he'll even be turning himself back in.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, now he's back in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you know, if they did it that way, if he kind of goes back at the end of of brand new day, then you could basically go straight from they could do something where you go straight from the end of season two to the start of season three and he's in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they could basically not even address the fact that he shows up in brand new day, but then again, if you're going to do that, why even have him show up in brand new day, like if you're because I feel like part of the benefit of that would be drawing people back to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, but I I think it's I really in the comics Rob when he's in prison What's the kind of stories they tell?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they immediately kind of get him out of prison or is it all prison stories?
[SPEAKER_00]: Matthew doing stuff in prison.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: They I mean he he's there for a bit in that Brubaker run I would say
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, not the whole run by any means.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not belabored, but I would say for, I mean, there's at least the one famous arc, I want to say it goes beyond that.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's kind of strange is one of the famous story points from that era is, like the very beginning of the run, Matt is, is, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: In he like has visitation hours and he's supposed to be like meeting with Foggy, who's coming in and they're figuring out, you know, the next steps and then
[SPEAKER_03]: Matt hears the prison guards murder, foggy, like through the walls, and it sort of does a lot of what they have already now done, and born again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And but, you know, as we talked about, that ends with you finding out foggy isn't actually dead, and it was all like masterminded by Vanessa
[SPEAKER_03]: They've done a lot of that and at this point, I think we can safely assume they are not going to pull a foggy is actually alive twist so it seems like it'd be pretty rise a skywalker if that happened in the third season well and then beyond that it's also, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: On the other hand, like there's the whole Zadarski side of him going to prison, kind of as Daredevil, and that's a whole different thing where they, he explores the kind of, it's a more, I wouldn't say more modern, but a more like criminal justice system, like criminal justice reform oriented look where Matt has spent all this time.
[SPEAKER_03]: around this, you know, by like defending criminals or sending criminals to jail as their devil.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now he kind of sees what the system is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he sees what leads people there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how hard it is to break out of those cycles.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you start to kind of that all eventually moves Matt towards even more of like a revolutionary mindset where he kind of feels like he needs
[SPEAKER_03]: I could see them doing something like that here because they've played with those themes so much in M.C.
[SPEAKER_03]: and two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've made it no secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's time for them to MCUify the show a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was thinking about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say for kicks and heels that he's not in brand new day, so we don't see Matt, so you just assume he's in prison that whole time, and then I'm going to assume that Spider-Man is not really involved with Doomsday.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to assume that whatever happens in Doomsday isn't affecting season three of Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's the case,
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think you have to make a world where it's almost, and not this far, but it's almost Falcon in the winter soldier.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost Daredevil and Spider-Man in season three.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you just bring the house down.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could somehow make that happen, think about how, think about the viewership you would get on a season three.
[SPEAKER_00]: If Spider-Man, maybe he's not a co-lead character, because that's never gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I hate that I'm saying it's never gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like I'm ready for the team up aspect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also ready for the team up aspect with MCU heroes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it'd be such a cool thing if Spider-Man's a big character in secret wars that the next time we see him is first in season three of Daredevil, you get people subscribing, you get them stoked about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have secret wars later that year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like it would work so well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also, you know, having watched Echo or half of Echo and Hawkeye,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think, I think you got to go one or two ways with Fisk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's either not involved at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are just left, like that was the last we saw them.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is on the beach and he's exiled and there are like government people making sure he stays there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do that and I would be okay with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The weirdness is, I think he's involved in season three because he talks about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's been a few set leaks where he's there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a big beard.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if he is on the show, he could be a flashback, it could be just like they're checking in on him and he's still there, kind of like season two of Daredevil, because when he's in prison, it's kind of like check-ins.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not about when he's doing the hands on episode two episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's all in the season prison, so and he's like, he like interacts with Frank and helps get Frank out, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's there pretty much the whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you maybe you do something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm coming around to, okay, if we feel like we have to have him to me what a better way than introduce Spider-Man into the show and and then have Kingpin sneak out away from the beach and and stay really the most under the shadows we've seen because now he's sneaks back to New York, but he doesn't want to be seen by anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: because he's currently, he's running, you know, he's been sent away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he sneaks back, but then Spider-Man and Daredevil become aware of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like Spider-Man's like, oh, that guy, he's back here, and then the two of them trying to figure out to take him down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just think there's got to be, there's got to be some crossover now, and not with Danny Rand, although I think they'll probably do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need crossover with like where does
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does it leave them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they like in their tower watching over New York?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if that's the case, I think you got to reach out to Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just kind of a little bit more of that going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: What they've done so far has been so so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I'm hoping for.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this point, if I keep talking, I'm just repeating myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that, man, if they could ever, if they could ever,
[SPEAKER_03]: find a way to get Spider-Man and Daredevil fully in the same project.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think on TV, though, is different than film, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, but to me, I think film is more likely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I think that's correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be hard in you TV.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to me, it's it's almost like it wouldn't be to this degree, but I think it would
[SPEAKER_03]: almost like a Deadpool and Wolverine like billing, you know, where it's it's or maybe Thor Ragnarok.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're Hulk doesn't show up until halfway through.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, where it's I mean it's spider main movie, but you you know like oh, but just because we're the ever so same for the TV show it's a Daredevil show with the spider man's like like the Jessica Jones role, but but then but I think the problem is like
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they would have to Sony would have to work out a deal that that allows for, you know, because they've got like the Spider-Man noir show coming out, so they must have some kind of live action.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Disney bites the bullet and puts up like a ton of money or something for just this one show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it would be, I think it would be,
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, I don't know what those figures would be, but I do think it would be worth it and that you would have a lot of people watch, Disney+, all of a sudden, like every Marvel fan would watch that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, sort of the same way that at the time that one she Hulk episode, I remember kind of blew up because so many people were hungry to see Daredevil where now I think that if you, if you had the promise of Tom Holland,
[SPEAKER_03]: I do like that, like we said before, Daredevil is now kind of a, he's a big deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: both because of Matt revealing his identity, but also because of how much of a symbol he became that if there is some new way that Fisk shows up and another hero is having to deal with Fisk, it would now naturally make sense for them to reach out to Matt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also be a different interaction, like something fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Matt versus Kingfin.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's given him grace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've seen it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, if he's like peripherally involved because Spider-Man now has it as a problem, or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also like a little bit of unique storytelling in that Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Assumably, doesn't relieve, doesn't tell people who he is, reveal himself, that relieve, reveal, who relieves himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Reveal himself in a brand new day.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of an interesting dynamic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt is not very public, but Matt even maybe doesn't know who Spider-Man is in their interactions.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also an interesting clash between Spider-Man and King Pen that
[SPEAKER_03]: wouldn't, you know, I don't want them to do the adolescent thing with Spider-Man anymore, because they've already done it so well and so often.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I, you know, like the original
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of cynical, jaded, adult perspective and Spider-Man as the naive, you know, optimistic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he thinks that he can take Fisk down if he just secures proof of Fisk being a criminal and he gets that proof and he gets it out there and Fisk just kind of undoes it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's this real, like, bendest uses it as kind of a coming of age moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like that's how the, that Spider-Man realizing that that's how the world works.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, it's not like, as black and white as as good versus evil, and I still think even though we're dealing with an older Peter, that's different than that and Fisk's dynamic.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that's something that even a 20 something Peter Parker, because he is still
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, like Matt's not naive, you know, Matt is he's principled, but I don't think Matt ever expects Fisk to do anything or expect the system to work in a way that it won't.
[SPEAKER_03]: He kind of hopes that it would and he believes that he should, you know, continue to operate within that and move it in the right direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think, I don't know, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are different
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to add that I would also get a huge kick out of specifically Elena.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that Matt had a relationship with Black Widow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in the comments.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he has expressed that that would have been fun to work with Scarjo Hanson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, that's off the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it make a lot of sense to have you Elaine a cameo.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's a great area character who's now thrust it out front publicly as far as being an Avenger and she was like the face of the press conference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Depending on what happens in Doomsday with her, that would make a lot of sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it could be kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: The interaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and she, yeah, I mean, so there's a point is there are other non-spiderman things that still would be fulfilling for me from an MCU perspective, MCU fandom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we got to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I'm going to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: You and I are recording a Marvel Comics 101 episode, the Estonishing X-Men for Friends From Work Plus.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I had a few listeners ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the 12 issues, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have the Joss Weedon Run, 12 issues, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe in the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess?
[SPEAKER_03]: There are two of those collections.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I got you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but yeah, we're just reading the first half of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like four arcs total, essentially.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're reading the first two that is sort of a complete story.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, if people enjoy it, I would recommend that they finish it out because you can read to the whole thing pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think it's 12 issues is already kind of a lot for us to talk about it once.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's not that heavy as far as like it's not that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you do want to still be a part of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously subscribe to Friendsomark Plus, but I'm sure you could probably go to Panabon comics and use our promo code friends from work and find the book and then still read it with us and listen to our episode once you're down with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I know we're doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing no commitments here that we're going to probably take next week off on the main feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so check that out if you want to hang out with us, come over to Friends from Workplus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then going forward, I know X-Men 97 drops in June.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I'm, well, I think I'm seeing Mandalorian and Grogu this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: For a screen save episode, I really want to see Disclosure Day, which is on June 12th.
[SPEAKER_00]: for a potential screen save episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll probably be doing check-ins with X-Men 97.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably maybe not, I mean, maybe not weekly, but we'll be talking about where we're at in that process.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, right around that time, everything kind of turns to Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to make plans for what that looks like obviously we'll do like a saga so far for spider Man and we'll make a YouTube video catching you up a screaming cap and then hopefully at some kind of premiere Are you and I together and then Comic Con is that weekend so I'm just kind of curious like what that looks like if Marvel announced is something big like you know four days after Spider-Man's out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So July will be a big deal for us and we've got some fun
[SPEAKER_03]: some fun comics stuff to where you and I have have been figuring out kind of how best to get you acclimated to the the Hickman run that they've kind of more and more been more more explicit about adapting when it comes to the Avengers stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now that I think I think that
[SPEAKER_03]: Candace in her new role as mother has finally, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've been sitting like I've been thinking like, you know, I need to ask Candace about how we want to like try to get back in and and like wrap the run and she was like, oh man, seeing this reminds me of that comic that you kept making me read that was so boring and I was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that we're close to the chapter, but no, I I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like motherhood maybe changes you a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I you know, I still think it's a It's it's hard because it's one of those runs that is it just requires a lot of
[SPEAKER_03]: investment.
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even for superhero comics folks, but I do think that there are some fun ways to be trying to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really got to keep it funded for a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was going to say we have that kind of coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: So so keep a look out and and I think one way or another we're going to try to finish our journey through all of that prior to Doomsday.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then maybe hit secret wars, either in that same period or between doom stand secret wars.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, I won't get fully into this now, but we did recently update the website with a bunch of new fun kind of watch order stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to kind of hop on on friends from work plus and explain some of the thought process there and and kind of how to interact with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: purposes of this episode since we are kind of ending this era and since I know a lot of people are kind of getting their minds like oriented around doomsday.
[SPEAKER_03]: we do have some ways to kind of shortcut through the multiverse saga and there are some other things that I'm kind of thinking about there, but I've gotten really passionate about trying to make that really accessible for folks because like we talked about at the beginning of this episode, I know it's really unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, thanks.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it is, it's been a lot of fun to see people interact with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you are listening to this, and you're kind of wanting to get caught up or just rewatch everything, there are a lot of kind of fun ways to do that there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be talking about that more.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you're curious, you can go to our website and check out our rake room page and I'll try to
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we have some merch on there, and I think the stock is updated.
[SPEAKER_00]: We put Daredevil in our rankings and the rewatch links.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, theFFwpodcast.com is a good place to go check out some of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe I have a friend who's taking his son through the whole journey now again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you're taking so nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: on the journey that's interested about brand new day or doomsday whatever that the break rooms a great page.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah to figure out if you're going to do a shortened version or the whole thing or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, thank you guys, this Daredevil stuff has been really fun, um, we got some new listeners during the Daredevil run, and so that was fun, and, uh, it's good to have you on board.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for supporting this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, we'll probably be off next week, but then we get some fun plans for the summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for supporting.