[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm U.A.S.U.A.S.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U.A.U
[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we're joined by Larry Torrent, licensed marriage family therapist and author of the practice of love, to explore the many versions of ourselves that emerge in dating and how these same patterns continue into relationships.
[SPEAKER_02]: From the grounded open version of us to the guarded anxious or performative one, we look at how different selves get activated,
[SPEAKER_02]: We dive into how mindfulness can help us notice this in real time, while trauma can trigger protective parts of us we don't always recognize and how these moments shape the way we connect or disconnect from others.
[SPEAKER_02]: And ultimately what it looks like to bring more awareness and presence into how we date and relate.
[SPEAKER_02]: In this conversation we explore how understanding these internal shifts can change not just who we choose, but how we move through relationships themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember to subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships and if this episode shifted how you think about dating, energy, or relationship, we'd love a rating or review.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the psychology of relationships and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
[SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy!
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is showing up for these dates?
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what we're talking about today.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of it really boils down to the many sides of you that encompasses like the multi-dimensional person that you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we have you on our show today, Lair, who we think that you're going to help us bring another Lair to dating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you've never done that with a couple of days.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm never a place with that name.
[SPEAKER_00]: later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're super excited to talk to you because we think there's so much of your book and just the conversations you have that applied at people that are in the dating scene, but also that are in relationships.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think kind of to double down what U.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: was saying before as we see this all the time that there's some people that almost take like too much accountability that they play the victim that they're, you know, to blame
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we see others that seem to blame all the external.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this could also be people in relationships too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think like some people kind of process it different than others?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess that's up to the individual.
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll probably see that tracked within their history, either willing to take perhaps too much blame or personal responsibility, or maybe not enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's probably just unique to that individual and how they show up in their lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: their relationship, their relationship to dating, their relationship perhaps to what they do for a living, and I talk a lot about how we show up, and I talk a lot about personal responsibility, either taking on too much or taking on too little, and being able to find that fine line of of just kind of where you want to live with respect to that kind of.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if I'm working with someone, I'll notice like there's an ability to take accountability throughout perhaps.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, especially in an individual counseling where perhaps I'm not putting as much of a shoulder into people as I would normally, I'd let it be under a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_03]: left of the process sort of unfold how kind of carefully let them know like I think I see this happening for you a lot like we're putting a lot of power in the app's hands when perhaps you are particularly powerful person if you started kind of looking at what you're bringing what you're coming to the table with and you're own unique your own unique and innate gifts maybe we can take some of that power back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that some of this are our listeners maybe thinking that's easier said than done.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might be saying, well, Lair, you're married.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you haven't been on the apps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you the apps are so frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I message a thousand people, maybe I'll get two messages back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of those two messages, I might see one person in real life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I see this person in real life, all my eggs are in this one basket, because it feels like a diamond in the rough.
[SPEAKER_00]: How can we actually put into practice what you're saying and show up the way that we're meant to show up as?
[SPEAKER_03]: personal work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I noticed that for my people when we interface with the apps and it's particularly frustrating.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say, look, let's just let's shut them down for a minute.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's shut them down and just take a look at what we're coming to the table with.
[SPEAKER_03]: And very often it's energy and I know this is going to do this maybe get out getting out there a little bit for people in the woohoo, but that's kind of what I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: We love the woohoo.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, your energy counts.
[SPEAKER_03]: How you show up energetically matters and you are a tuning fort, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like energy attracts like energy and I personally think computers and apps tend to kind of fall in line with that energetic pulse that you're sort of sending out there in the road.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the question I ask you, are you coming from a deficit perspective or are you coming from an abundance perspective?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you turning to yourself and are you finding the innate abundance that lives within you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like why are you amazing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because look, people are most people are a pretty amazing inside.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to find our goal and show up with your goal and know why you're awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: And very often when we go away and then come back, we have to play with a little bit, but very often the apps do respond.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or they find love somewhere else.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, UA and I agree with that wholeheartedly, we always say that, you know, what we've observed with ourselves that with people are listeners is once they're good with who they are in life, that's when it usually starts to get a heck lot easier, I want to turn it to your story, I guess like from your point of view,
[SPEAKER_02]: Were you always like radiating this energy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Was this something?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: You had a learn.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, lots of people Okay, I call myself a recovering angry person lots of woundy my mom was 15 when she had me Very very impoverished up bringing this version of the life that I've created thus far it was not in the narrative early on
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I had to do a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_03]: I moved to New York City and I wanted to be an actor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, because I loved acting so much as I was just, I had this hole in my heart in this ego that needed repair.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought becoming virtual famous, of course, would fix everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, yeah, I'm sure I do that and what I also did is simultaneously I got myself involved this individual therapy and I became a real convert in that respect.
[SPEAKER_03]: I looked at my bookshelf one day and I saw that there were about 70 books on health and mental health and healing, about four books on acting and I decided it was probably time to change course and
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so it was the energy that I bring to the table, at least I try to, comes from my work, digging into myself daily.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you meet your partner?
[SPEAKER_03]: I walked into my bar job.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a bartender in New York City because, you know, I was an actor, so of course I was a bartender.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I walked into the to the manager's office in the basement of the of the bar that I was working in and I opened a door in there She was and I looked at her and I I literally set out loud.
[SPEAKER_03]: There you are and she kind of looked at me like who's as weird I always say I always say she had the experience that I had and so I collected my stuff my drawer And I tried to get out of there as fast as I could and I was like oh my goodness That was a strange experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying that everybody has that experience, but I
[SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a lot of not great experiences prior to that fumbling my way through, but you know, it wasn't perfect when we met by any stretch.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were both working in the food and beverage industry in New York City.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were quite a lot of tequila filled, not so awesome evenings, but we both were dedicated to working on ourselves and we were both dedicated to the program.
[SPEAKER_03]: We ultimately went to both become therapists and so, you know, we healed ourselves and each other along the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really interesting point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we think like we have to be fully whole to attract that person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I guess is, yeah, I see you shaking your hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is your take on that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like how do you still get to that good place?
[SPEAKER_02]: But not be fully healed in any way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, what are you trying to create?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like is it this we're going to come together and it's this romantic comedy right off scenario?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, we are, it was horrible Hendrix, it said, you know, and I'm going to butcher the quilt, but we are drawn to our romantic partners and we recreate our wounding from childhood, right, but for a very good reason so that there can be healing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so people immediately go co-dependence, no, no, not co-dependence and opportunity, right, like we show each other things.
[SPEAKER_03]: We reflect pieces that need to be healed with any other now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Most people just battle it out over those things, and that's why I have a job.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's why I have a job as a therapist because people don't get beyond that top layer of why are we battling this out here.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a secondary conversation happening below the surface of the sex, the money, the kids, or whatever it might be.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the top of the mind conversations that you see in the top 10 reasons people seek a couple therapy or get a divorce.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I know is there's something underneath that conversation and for you it's going to be different for me than it's going to be different from you than you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It lives in the area of my safe and my loved and my enough and do it matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're trying to answer those very, those four very primordial questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we can become to the table with a wounding in one or two or three or four of those areas, and we are truly trying to heal that with each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm trying to say in my wife's case, you know, thankfully I was looking through a textbook and reading and learning, I realized that the world was an unsafe place for her because of her upbringing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not talking to the adult woman over time that I see staring back at me, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking to the little girl in her that needs to know that the world's a safe enough place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's go back to that because you said something that I've been reading a lot about is this coupling, in addition to the attraction and chemistry, it is joint healing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you find your right partner who is willing to heal with you or who wants to heal with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a friend who says something to me the other day, she was like, oh, I saw you write this thing on your Instagram, it sounds like you're healing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh my god, how did she know that?
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do we know what we're trying to heal?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's kind of the question I've been dealing with is what specifically of those four questions you asked?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I even know which one I'm trying to heal here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, a lot of the time, and I don't know this if this happened for either of you too.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when I start naming those questions, you'll feel it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So people cry in my office for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is because I've named their truth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and so when you have something that has been with you, whether you're aware of it or not like I am unsafe in the world, come on before you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see it all the time, it'll hit and sometimes it doesn't, but you'll see people going to go, oh, I'm not enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, but now we don't always have the answer immediately, but we have the four questions and like when I first found those four questions, I sort of pieced it together from a bunch of different research.
[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look for a fifth and there wasn't one.
[SPEAKER_03]: If anyone has a fifth, please let me know.
[SPEAKER_03]: You start asking yourself as you look across the expansive your life from birth till now, like, do you see it?
[SPEAKER_03]: If we look from the 60,000 foot view of your life, you know, we stand over any end-one person's life, we ask those questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to see it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to come into stark relief, like all of those scenarios.
[SPEAKER_03]: I never felt like I was enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you ask those four questions one more time for our listeners?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, am I safe?
[SPEAKER_03]: Am I loved?
[SPEAKER_03]: Am I enough?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do I matter?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have definitely experienced this before that people come and say it's the dating apps.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't get enough matches on the dating apps.
[SPEAKER_02]: that we push them one layer deeper.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's my axe that it goes a layer deeper.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like actually that was the first person to view me as beautiful or see me in a certain way.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of what you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we get people to push the boundaries outside of therapy, of course, or it's one way?
[SPEAKER_02]: But how do you go from this superficial external belief that that's your
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, I have my way in the way that I try to encourage my clients to work, which is work on it every day.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, wake up every morning and journal and meditate on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at your life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at the different situations in your life and say, okay, I know, you know, my knee jerk reaction was, was to perhaps blame and maybe some blame was certainly deserved on that side.
[SPEAKER_03]: But where did one of those, or a few of those questions show up for me?
[SPEAKER_03]: And you could find it so many different areas like I found it in my internship.
[SPEAKER_03]: I came from the background that I told you about and I have this, I get this coveted internship on Madison Avenue with these awesome and amazing women.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here I am looking for the service entrance, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was constantly feeling as though I wasn't enough when I look at that scenario for two years.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was looking for my pink slip and my wife was saying to me, I don't
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that's what's going on here at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for me, that's what was present there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one example you have yours.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at the different scenarios in your life and are the different places where you've found contrast or friction and asked the question, did I feel like I was enough?
[SPEAKER_03]: Did I feel safe in the world?
[SPEAKER_03]: Did I feel loved?
[SPEAKER_00]: you're also quite the champion of mindfulness as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how can people practice mindfulness when it comes to dating, especially keeping some of our listeners in mind who are frustrated by the dating apps, who are frustrated by the dates that go nowhere?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do they start?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, mindfulness is paying attention on purpose.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not sitting on a cushion for an inordinate amount of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Trying to keep your attention on your breath.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's meditation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mindfulness is the hope for peace that we get from from sitting on that meditation cushion.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so paying attention on purpose, I say to how we're showing up to the dating apps, what part of me, what aspect of my personality, what part of me is showing up there?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because let's say I'm unaware of how, like I know how I feel about the apps, but it kind of pisses me off that I've been having this experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I show up in a part of myself that is defended, that is kind of pushing back or I show up in my inner critic, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And the inner critic is the part of self that everyone says, you know, I just wish that part of me would go away, would die and I'm like, well,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to recognize that the inner critic is trying to keep you safe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it'll point fingers at you and the apps or other people, but it definitely brings up a resonant energy that's not particularly positive.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so training our mindfulness on our parts of self-hour showing up in the energy you are bringing to the apps or to dating.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're showing up to that date quite obviously like I'm trying to keep it together, but really I just think this is going to be another one of these duds.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really going to be a dud.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a dud.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, so this is the part I'm still struggling with this surface level, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It is all the external, all the things that are going wrong of their lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're saying it is how do you reflect back on yourself and how you're showing up and bringing the energy to that?
[SPEAKER_02]: How can people like connect those dots a little more?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there are any exercises outside of what you just said that they can dig a little deeper and get to that next level.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, one of the things I talk to people about is the narrative, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the story that you're telling?
[SPEAKER_03]: I usually use this with respect to couples who are struggling in any one area.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's really important, our thoughts become feelings, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And those feelings become more thoughts and those thoughts become more feelings.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we really do have to pay attention to the biochemical conversation that's going on with the brain and the body all of the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if we're having those negative thoughts, and we have about 60, 40 to 60,000 of them in the day, it's really tough to keep track of them all.
[SPEAKER_03]: But mindfulness can help us, and we begin to notice, like, oh, I'm actually telling a story in there, kind of in the quiet recesses of my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a particularly good one.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, maybe it's about the people that I'm dating, the pool of people that I'm dating, maybe I'm telling a story of like how there are just no, good, dateable people out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe I'm telling a story about the apps, the apps just are, and I know that you've had an experience thus far, but taking some of our power back with respect to dating and the dating apps might mean looking at the story that I'm telling the thoughts and the feelings that I'm creating around it, as we are tuning that fork, as I said before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when you're trying to take control of your narrative, it directly competes with your emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for many, it's hard to control the emotions that come up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So something you talk about is the knee jerk response, compassionate choice, how do we control or at least deal with the emotions that come up when we're trying to take control of our narrative?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we don't have control.
[SPEAKER_03]: You feel what you feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: And trying to control your emotions, it's like, okay, we just, we just don't want to react.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what mindfulness does.
[SPEAKER_03]: It gets us out of our knee jerk response to our emotions.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we can get space from them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we can name them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maming is an age-old practice, Buddhist practice of saying, this is what I'm going through.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what that does is it gives us
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm using my space from our experience, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where we can take that breath and make them go, oh, these are the feelings I'm having and we can have them, just I'm feeling frustrated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm angry.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really good information.
[SPEAKER_03]: Underneath the anger, maybe some more sadness or hurt.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we can process those feelings around that.
[SPEAKER_03]: and not create more of a story that becomes more feeling, so it becomes more of a story where on that wheel, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And now we're getting that sense of actually gaining more control.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we didn't have any control, or we shouldn't try to control them, we just have your feelings.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let yourself have them, but not attach to them, if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it definitely does.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, it's like the first step is identifying them because sometimes when we stuff them down, that's when they just show up.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, at least, yeah, they go outside ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like how it shows up on a date.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden, you're coming off super angry in the dates like why am I here, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're wondering why no dates ever go past the third day, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we always let's help people like, how would you describe of dating to a friend and then like see what words kind of come up for you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say it is more negative based.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes it's not as easy as just being like, okay, now make it positive.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are some ways that people can like reframe that narrative in a way that's serving them because I really believe wholeheartedly that just focusing on the negative aspects and bitching to your friends of really doesn't do anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, in narrative therapy, there is a practice of retelling the story and to begin to populate that story with gratitude, right, with gratitude, find, what are you, what are you grateful for in this process?
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you grateful for in yourself?
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you grateful for that you bring to the table?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't mean just sort of this laundry list of things like, you know, I'm a good person
[SPEAKER_03]: Feel into what it is you bring to the table like really feel it let there be a shift within you When you start practicing that gratitude and then like notice how it begins to change the story about how you show up and the person that you are and
[SPEAKER_03]: All of a sudden, you're like, wait, no, this person gets to be with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Coming to the table with that, and like, I'm a pretty amazing person.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm making room in my special life for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of a cool place to come from.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I'm having to constantly remind people when I see these wonderful and awesome amazing people that are willing to do the work.
[SPEAKER_03]: My list of my phone is the last one they want to call.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's usually the door they at least want to walk through.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when they come to the door, I'm like, look at all that you've done in your life
[SPEAKER_03]: They pass over it in part because they're having this not so great experience in dating as an example.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is me re reminding and I'm not just, you know, putting a silk hat on a sale here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm saying you are an amazing human being in a lot of ways and you've just sort of forgotten that in at least in this area.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a really important thing to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad you brought that up because I do think we forget.
[SPEAKER_02]: We almost have, you know, like, Emnesia of all the things that have gotten us to where we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially when things aren't going well, we get fixated.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember when I was doing therapy, my therapist kind of had me map out the last years of my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what was going on in them?
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of disproved certain stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like at one point it was, I'm not a relationship person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and she was like, have you actually been trying to get into a relationship?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you moved across the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've been focused on work.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean anything about yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So are there other ways that you kind of help guide people to to be like, it's not a reflection of who I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of just an instance that could be happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, look, again, this comes down to let's recognize the apps as an example are there, they're there to facilitate when we start taking the information personally and beginning to film a story about that and then maybe like that sort of infiltrate how you feel about yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: we can't do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to get space from that from that app and from that experience and say, okay, and then you can start asking questions like, what is the story I'm telling?
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, I have a what part of me is showing up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, as a part of me that doesn't want to be vulnerable, as a part of me that's scared, as a part of me that doesn't feel worthy of connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are my experiences from the past that sort of influencing this?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's a reason why these parts are showing up when they're showing up.
[SPEAKER_03]: and it's information and perhaps something that needs to be looked at, something that needs to be healed, compassion that needs to be given to two years so.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we take all that apart then perhaps we can kind of come at them a little bit differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what would you say to the other cohort of leaders who are who think they're the shit already, who think they're quite a catch, who are like I am very complex.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can list all of my accomplishments.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the other people who don't measure up to what I'm looking for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And something that we found that's very interesting because we have a finding your person program and we do these group calls within the program and a lot of the data is in this program have a very negative narrative when it comes to dating, but when we ask them to recall the positive times they've had dating.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of a sudden, they're like, oh, I totally forgot about this awesome date I've had with someone or this great mini relationship I had.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one technique we found has helped us to recall the positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some other ways that how would you speak to this cohort of people who are just like, there's just nobody good enough for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody good enough for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, that again, that comes to I feel I would dig into like, what are you protecting
[SPEAKER_03]: That, too, is a way to guard yourself against vulnerability.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it was Brane Brown who said vulnerability is the cradle of all the things that we want to experience in the world, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also one of the things we fear the most.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you're asking me to give my heart over to someone who may or may not show up tomorrow, may die, may choose somebody else.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is just another technique.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I wonder what would happen if we gave a little grace and a little space, perhaps, and some generous assumption to some of these people that you've opted out of have, I'm actually saw someone today in my practice, I have to say that does just this thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not outing her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's totally down with understanding that her checklist is too strict, and that she's protecting herself through this strict checklist of, and ultimately there's so there's no one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's a good example.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had an actor in my practice years ago, and she would say she would say well, you know, the I can't date anyone in acting because they're all insane and I can't date any civilians because they don't understand our business
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's left?
[SPEAKER_03]: Who do we have?
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it'd be a me protecting yourself from the vulnerability of connection.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely a self-protection mechanism because, you know, you can't be rejected if you don't ever put yourself out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're always the one rejecting first, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the challenges that a lot of the data is that we talk to have is
[SPEAKER_02]: with modern dating.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, like we're not going to blame modern dating culture as a whole, but there is some shit that comes with it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like feeling disposable and people ghosting and really ships not getting off the ground.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes this like little trauma, a little tea trauma that people experience as it compounds over time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can make them almost reluctant to date again because, you know, either they're afraid it's going to happen again and maybe it's the opposite that they almost become like their worst critic opposed taking any accountability.
[SPEAKER_02]: How would you speak to these people like how can they reframe their narrative in a way that allows them to take accountability but also not be like, I suck, I'm doing everything wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my fault.
[SPEAKER_03]: I tend to go to parts, and is there an aspect of you that can kind of, in Buddhism, we have the middle ground, right, and it sounds like we were kind of hitting either post, either amazing and awesome when I can't date, or I'm just terrible when I can't date.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're a human being.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good to find the aspects of you that are awesome and amazing, but I think we start looking at that narrative, that story, that they're telling, and it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: As their therapist start pointing out, you're really going down and not so great road, is this your inner critic that's come up.
[SPEAKER_03]: So again, I can come back to what part of you meets the dating world.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so great when we can start doing a little roll call in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: and saying, oh, here's my inner protector.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's my wounded child who doesn't feel like there enough, you know, it feels desperate for connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's my inner critic that thinks everyone's terrible, including me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what we ultimately find through this inner role call is the wise enough self, the good enough self shows up.
[SPEAKER_00]: the inner role call.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just made that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's brilliant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another another first on our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Inner role call.
[SPEAKER_00]: So would you say, would it be a good practice for people to write down all of their inner voices?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when these kind of thoughts come up, you can just name exactly who is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Who is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I imagine in mine, my inner role call happens in a house that I don't own yet in Kui or maybe in Costa Rica and there's this big table and all my parts get to get a spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I start to get to know the different aspects of me that show up in my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I kind of know who they are and I'm like, oh, I know who that is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where that mindfulness piece kicks in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we get a sort of a sense of flavor and an ear for the different thoughts and feelings that come up rather than being in a mood or any of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We can say, oh, this is that this is that part of me that tends to show up around this really great information.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's compartmentalization of the mind 101 in these different aspects of our of our brains.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have certain skill sets that other aspects of our brains don't have.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this part of myself because, you know, this happens all the time as you may and I have wonderful friends that were like, why do they struggle with dating so much, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're such like easy to talk to, lovely people, and this is also in some of our listeners that we've talked to in our program, like, you know, they seem like such great catches.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like, how could this person not be just killing it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of it is like, how are you showing up dating?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not physically on the dates of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's been hard to like put a name to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think sometimes I've thought of it more black and white of like, Oh, this is like your friend's self versus your date self.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I really like what you're saying is like you have multiple parts of you and some may be triggered in some aspects and not in others and it's really important to take that inventory because it may not be all or nothing, but we may not be showing up in the way that like reflects our best self.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't tell you how important that is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I almost failed my license and an exam precisely for this reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: You think of these parts of us or like you're so phone, and I'm the first person that said this, but you know, you have these apps.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in your Instagram app as an example, can you send an email?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, you can't.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're in a particular part of yourself that you would like to be open, or garious, and connective, but you're in a shut-down protective part of yourself because of the vulnerability or experiencing on this date or in this connection with this person, you're going to have quite the opposite experience, right, from connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: Information exists in some parts of your brain that doesn't and others and again, I almost failed my licensee exam because I was so freaked out by the idea of this 400 question multiple choice test and though I had done amazing work in my grad program as I was taking the practice exams I am I was failing miserably and I couldn't understand why until this parts thing came on you.
[SPEAKER_03]: came back online and I said, oh, it's the part of me that's showing up to the exam.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even have to study anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just have to make sure that my parts are online.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we can through practice, through mindful practice, begin to learn to shift parts, like we shift as suit of clothes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes in the people that I help through the process of dating, they'll be fine in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and the thrifers 3, 4, 5, 6 dates, and then all of a sudden it's like, I like them a lot, and then all of a sudden they're like, and it's going off the rails, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do I do now?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, okay, it's your part, it's your parts, you're in this con cool collected part, and now this this little person and you that wants to know that they're loved, that they're safe, that they're mad.
[SPEAKER_03]: This part is now coming up, but we have to take care of that part.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now all of a sudden they're micromanaging everything that they're doing and saying, it's like, okay, let's just look at who's showing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably really, it's probably not that easy, but how do you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you're on a date.
[SPEAKER_00]: You realize the part of you that you're showing up is the easily irritated, just got off work, had a fight with your boss part.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you like to shift back to your playfulness part.
[SPEAKER_00]: How would you make that shift?
[SPEAKER_00]: Will it be like the first step to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we're noticing, and naming, and I have a full on dialogue with these guys in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Trust me, luckily, I lived in New York City where that was okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I could go down the street and talk it to myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's your acting side, Kavay Thore, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Your use of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I see you, I know what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what you're up to, and so I get separation because I've named it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so taking a break, running into the bathroom, you're going to have to take this call.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it might be, but it's really a negotiation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you want to have done some preliminary work and know a little bit about this prior to this day.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you can, you can learn to do that I do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that like what I'm going to step out on stage and I'm talking in front of a group of people, I have to stop, I have to push pause and I say, who's here?
[SPEAKER_03]: What part of me is here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, there's a part of me that oddly enough, I hate public speaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have an inner fraud that likes to come up and make myself small.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have to say, hi, how are you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Love you so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're amazing at some other things not this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to need you to step aside.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is actually this negotiation is done in IFS, which is internal family systems theory.
[SPEAKER_03]: which says that there's an internal family of parts within all of us, and that negotiation is really important aspect.
[SPEAKER_03]: One that we always skip.
[SPEAKER_03]: And our parts want to be recognized oddly enough, they want to be seen, they want us to know, is look, they're trying to get our attention for some reason, especially when we get into wounded children all that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, negotiating with that part name in saying I see you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what you're up to and I'm gonna need you to step aside Because I want this other aspect of me to show up and you'd be surprised like the the difference when you just do that
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's so big and I think the separation, especially coming from like work to date is women, especially I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: So as we feel bad because it's like, oh, I can let my work side be the date side or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: But depending on your job too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think though, like from what you're saying though, it's not that it's bad to show a different side.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just tapping into another side that maybe more in line with what you're doing at that exact moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: right or wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's an imperative.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's an absolute can you imagine being able to move through your life that mindful and aware like oh I'm stepping into this scenario and it would be great if this aspect of myself or person I can't tell you how many times I've been talking to my wife and she's turned to me and said am I paying for this hour.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good, I have a therapist, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's that's definitely happened to be before I member like with my old roommate I was like you're now talking to me like you talked to your fifth grade students and I'm not free shade to get it that much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't get me started about my lawyers, the lawyers in my practice, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know and like oh you're wondering why your partner feels like they can never like win an argument or get their feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh God yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just counselor you keep showing up and you're litigator.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess we've been talking about dating, but let's shift over to relationships and couples.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something you would recommend for couples to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to call each other out on which part that's coming out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, my protector part, my wife calls him Mitch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, literally, literally, yeah, he literally named it.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you could do it and have fun with it, like we've got to put it over us, it's fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's actually really helpful for me because she'll say, it's feel a little nichey in the neighborhood today.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we do and sweetie, and so we'll run my back.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm gonna be like, I am finally feeling a little woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I don't know, like, it's a call, it's a call to mindfulness, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because,
[SPEAKER_03]: She's there and she's noticing and so I'll say that and she'll say that and I'll be like she's right I can feel it like that part of me was really good at you know dealing with bar fights and the CD joints I worked at in New York not a great partner oddly enough not a great dad
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, I want to make sure he's, I'm aware of where that part of me is that part that it was, you know, charged with protecting me throughout the rough times in my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good to make sure in my relationship if I'm, if we're having a back and forth and we're not getting, we're not coming to terms on any one thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we're having a little argument.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want that guy showing up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll hear him whispering in my ear.
[SPEAKER_03]: He'll be like, no, you get to say this.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm not saying that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but you heard what you said, you get to say this now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying it because I know where it goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So is this a lifelong practice then?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like from all stages of relationships with the day?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you start moving through your life where you are and a more mindful and aware way.
[SPEAKER_03]: You get to be really present for your work, for your work, for your...
[SPEAKER_03]: family extend another wise for new possible partners in your life, and you get to be really present for yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: You really get to know yourself in an extraordinary way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so curious about how this can be put into practice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to ask you, Julie, what are some of the parts that you have within you, that you you've seen come out?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I definitely think I have multiple parts.
[SPEAKER_01]: You definitely have.
[SPEAKER_02]: like a cheesy sentimental side that maybe my partner sees more than work colleagues.
[SPEAKER_02]: For instance, maybe more of, you know, sarcastic side that could come out of this podcast or maybe more of a type A personality that comes out when I'm getting work done, playful side.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I have a many different sides and sometimes I've actually had this thought before that Am I not being my true self with someone because I want to go inside with
[SPEAKER_02]: certain people over others and then I've come to the realization that that's actually not true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just do have multiple sides to my personality and it's not that one is, you know, one person knows me better than the other.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that different people kind of bring out different sides to me and different situations too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, different people, different situations will trigger different aspects of self and it becomes a real curiosity for me as to why.
[SPEAKER_00]: So would you say that you're never not yourself then?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say you're never not some aspect of self.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: You may not like the aspect that comes up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You may not love it, and that's your work.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about, like, if you are actually feeling inauthentic, though?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, you can be like, oh my god, I just feel safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just come out of my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why are you saying that?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, yes, here.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some part of you that's up that is feeling probably insecure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Leading or wanting something, and I'm going to guess I'm going to go right to wounded younger child part.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's funny, because the tea I just rewatched the TV show in secure, and she always says really awkward things that aren't hurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always in moments that she feels insecure, basically.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess you I'll turn it to you, but what about you?
[SPEAKER_02]: What are different parts that you could identify with?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think because I've been working from home so much, many parts have shown up in my relationship with my partner, and he's starting to see so many different layers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am only child.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought for a long time I was able to hide that pretty well, but the only child me does come up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call her Susie.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just like so fucking annoying, but she's the girl that needs attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the girl that thinks the world revolves around her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is just the center of the universe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Susie dressed up in big girl clothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the imposter syndrome, side of me, where I feel like I'm in authentic in the way I speak to adults and try to to bring credibility to myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just feels like I am reading off someone else's resume.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the third aspect or the third part of myself I see quite a bit is the the nurturing
[SPEAKER_00]: So the three are conflicting and it's really interesting when one comes up one leads and then the other two kind of won't want to battle it out out to to be in the forefront.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wonder what sides of you to come out when you lock horns with your partner when when thing when the rubber hits the road and things are a little bit tough.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're having tough you're having difficult communications because it's my theory and I outline this in the book that we don't actually have communication problems.
[SPEAKER_03]: People will call me and they'll say we have communication problems and I say you don't and they get frustrated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like no, I was there We do and I'll say no, you communicate that you have command of the English language.
[SPEAKER_03]: You said that just fine I understood everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you have as a part's problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll draw a draw a venn diagram to circles intersecting and I'll say okay, here's you and here's your partner
[SPEAKER_03]: and all the parts are in here, the X's and the O's.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we have this little almond that's the conversation, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really important who shows up in there because if you show up in a part of yourself that's like your inner critic or your warrior weapons hot self, it's like trying to send an email from your Instagram.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't have the skills to connect.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we can use all the eye statements we want.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I think I heard you say through the wrong part turns to what I
[SPEAKER_02]: So true.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what makes dating so challenging?
[SPEAKER_02]: This was kind of just a light bulb of it for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that we don't know the other person's hearts at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're only seeing the snapshot of the above one hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you were saying, Lara, that your wife can call you on a different part.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you meet someone for a drink for one hour, you can't call them on a different part.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's who you think they are as an entire human.
[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe, but is it, well, as it would I do, I stand back and kind of let people reveal themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: And notice like, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is what's happening for them in this moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you can, if they're nervous or they're saying things that are kind of out of love field or they're trying to be cool, it's like, I'm going to be sure that I want to meet you on this first date or second date.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm probably meeting your agent, but not the real you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm, but I think that's mindfulness.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the fact that you are mindful allows you to make that connection where a lot of people are at the surface level, still believing the apps, still believing other people, doing all the things that aren't themselves or understanding how people operate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in that case, it would just walk away and being like, well, that was a dud, that person sucked.
[SPEAKER_02]: of host of being the having the mindfulness that you were just saying, I think that can actually help you on dating too, because it can say like, maybe this person, like, what is the good that I could see at this person?
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it was at 100% home run, that could make it that the next date is totally different, but this one was.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm seeing that date through my inner critic, I'm kind of like, oh God, that was terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I stand back and I get into my wise self, I can say, you know, it was a first date.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, maybe I can give them another chance because look, we all show up to these in the various ways that we do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it wasn't their best go.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a total shot and move on.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yet, this way of looking at the parts of us that show up, not only does that give us compassion
[SPEAKER_00]: If we have all these different parts that show up at different times, what is the throughline that defines who we are, so that we are not like multiple personalities, but it is still us just different parts of us.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you think about there's a seat of consciousness that sits here within all of us, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the fun part.
[SPEAKER_03]: The why self the soul, if you will, does not care who shows up, because it's all grist for the mill, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you're going to get the lesson or a lesson, no matter who shows up.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when we stand back in that witnessing why self and we say, okay, I see that this part of me wants to come up because I'm nervous about this data.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the third date.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've checked a lot of really great boxes and I don't want to screw up, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want this to go well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this other part of me shows up.
[SPEAKER_03]: We start naming and doing that in our role call.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, what happens is the wise self takes over.
[SPEAKER_03]: That part of us that is that is wildly compassionate and pathetic and understanding for other people and oneself, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's important not to leave yourself on the compassion.
[SPEAKER_02]: there has been so much about this conversation that has blood by mind which is in the best way possible and I think like to go into some of our takeaways I think I started off this conversation having the feeling that I still do that like it's the easy way out is to blame the external or to blame other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the hard work is looking at yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think what I've learned from this too is that, yes, it's work.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely work to look at yourself and to take accountability.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it also can be great fun if we start to look at it as what sign of myself is coming out right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: What part am I showing?
[SPEAKER_02]: What is this bringing up for me?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like this game of
[SPEAKER_02]: clue in the mystery that we're solving of what is the curiosity that I can get, I can use every opportunity to get to know myself better because that is the only variable that matters at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are, you know, now in a relationship, maybe you're not using dating apps anymore, but there'll be something else that you can play.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's never going to be a shortage.
[SPEAKER_02]: of things that you can blame.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, you are the only person that you have control of is yourself and the only things that really can shift is how you're showing up to certain circumstances.
[SPEAKER_02]: So using all the tools and the methods that you gave today, I think is probably the number one thing people can do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see that people spend all these time updating their profile
[SPEAKER_03]: and doesn't that give you so much more power and so much more standing, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It feels so solid, it often we feel like when we stop blaming those things that we're giving up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And really what you're doing is you're taking the higher ground, you're taking that road less traveled.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need to also ask ourselves, like, what are we getting out of blaming certain aspects?
[SPEAKER_02]: because I think sometimes misery just likes company and people like to bitch.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we actually say, what am I getting out of looking deeper at myself?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the world, like it's almost like endless when you start to unravel that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we've all had revelations even on this interview.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think hopefully our listeners are digging deeper into the different questions that you brought up at the very start.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even just like the different parts that we cut a name.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure people can name resilient parts within themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just still blown away by our revelation that maybe we are always our most authentic self.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that there's some parts of us that we like better than others.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's been so much pressure from society to just be yourself, just be your authentic self.
[SPEAKER_00]: All those Instagram memes like just be authentic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Many people feel a little bit lost in what that means.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who am I?
[SPEAKER_00]: know that you are always being yourself and now you have a choice in choosing which part of yourself you want to be more of.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this idea that we have this inner role call, we have these different parts and one takeaway for me and for our listeners is that I think we can start observing that even more and start naming those parts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know how you feel when you are in
[SPEAKER_00]: Julie, I'm going to call your, your, what was your, your cheesy side?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to call her surely because I just love that news so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an inside joke.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a real weird place here as hell.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that never call me surely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Throw back to season one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was having my own internal joke.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd, a third on our podcast, three people with three different internal jokes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I happen simultaneously.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what is it that we feel when we're in that part?
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we observe those feelings, we can choose which part we want to bring out more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the most empowering part of all of this is that we can choose what we want to show more of.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think just knowing that we're multidimensional and the people we date are multidimensional too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know like on a subconscious level, we all know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think we always bring that out when we're dating.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it kind of goes back to what we're talking about earlier.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were almost even victim of this, too, that we're like, there's kind of two ends of the spectrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: The people that blame themselves, the people that blame others.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe you can be both, maybe there's certain situations that you do go to the external and sometimes you go to the internal and our little too much of your own credit and same for the people in the dates.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this of like, can we take a step back and just recognize this person is showing up on a date.
[SPEAKER_02]: dates are inherently uncomfortable sometimes can we give this person the benefit of the doubt in modern dating people just do not give enough benefit of the doubt and of course there's a difference of giving too much that you get taken advantage of but there's also like not giving someone a shot and giving them a chance to develop something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also for listeners, this is great date talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, forget about like, where did you grow up?
[SPEAKER_00]: How many siblings you got?
[SPEAKER_00]: How about like show me your inner role call?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who lives in you and know that the second date may bring out something different because maybe you bring out a different part of you that would cause them to bring out a different part of themselves too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love this because there's something very actionable here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so often we jump to the negative when someone says maybe it is you, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's something wrong with you That's where our minds go, but I think if we can reframe it to what we're saying today maybe it is you But what side of you and let's figure out how the sides of you that really are make you freaking awesome can come out more That's when like dating falls into place sure does
[SPEAKER_02]: this has been such an interesting conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're so glad that we had you join us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell everyone where they can find your book?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's the practice of love by Lair Torrent.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I say that because there's a couple other things, name the practice of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you look it up on the internet, maybe take you to the wrong place.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's on Barnes and Noble.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's on Amazon.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's also at Roman and Little Field,
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome, and we will also link it in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been such a great time having you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are being here with you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't miss an episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.