[SPEAKER_02]: This episode of True's Table is brought to you by our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, True's Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We are back at the table with our friend, I am son.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I should let me say Orlando also known that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to leave off your artist name because it is so rich.
[SPEAKER_00]: You blessed us with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we are in our, we talked about this our 10 season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnus and our underground row row 2.0 series and we are living in some unprecedented times.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are living in some pretty chaotic, you know, times people are going through a lot of different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just curious, you know, I was thinking about, you know, Psalm 137, you know, how can we sing songs, you know, songs as I say, you know, in a strange land.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just curious about your own, you know, talking about anxiety and you know, as you were talking about mental health and what does it mean to sing songs, you know, a freedom and hope in this strange land?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, can you talk to us about that process and what that looks like?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that it's hard to live in the tension of limit and hope, but that's our reality.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it's grief and hope, you know, that's just.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that as a songwriter, that's actually fuel, you know, we to pull from those places.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like a lot of artists, we have a great relationship with our hearts, you know, and expressing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know we feel deeply for better or for worse you know I mean so when when I see what's going on and what's happening in the world I think the only thing I can do is just be honest about it you know and so like just pairing that with my faith you know and these things these songs are prayers to God even if it's how long even if it's like look what you
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to be honest, you know, and it, you know, as I said before, God gave this gift, it's a gift to me, and it's the way that I talk to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the way that I express what's on my mind, when, you know, sometimes, you know, the only thing I can do is write and sing in sometimes home, play the piano.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and there's a sense of regulation that happens after it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have that as something that you can access, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But also it brings you a sense of relief.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you share it with all of us who all get to experience that as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, we think about your bio and the construction of your music.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it definitely has that gospel and
[SPEAKER_02]: classically trained and folk elements to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I listen to your music, what stands out to me, the most is the folk, the black folk tradition and the storytelling component.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want that's what I'm super notes about right now is the way that I've seen you work with other folk artists.
[SPEAKER_02]: um, white artists as well, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: In the way that that sound kind of comes together, talk a little bit about your collaboration projects.
[SPEAKER_02]: That one, but just just the expansion of it, I think of you as an artist that is incredibly generous and genre open.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's such a good question.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just feel like gospel music is such a good foundation for all music.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that gives me a sense of rhythm, harmony, and melody to be able to hear every other genre in a dad.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm just very, very appreciative.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you look at like,
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, a lot of gospel musicians.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like the main ones on the pop stages on the hip-hop.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's like, people came up with church.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I take that, and you know, it's the way that I understand music.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that, um, yeah, in collaboration, you learn how to listen, you learn how to hear, and, um,
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a beautiful thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a muscle that you have to work with people.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm thankful for the year and the preparation that got me to test.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you have just a jumping quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that one of your incredibly popular, most recent pieces was done in collaboration with Jonathan McRennel's.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got to hear kind of a live version of it when I was at the
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it, but again, it's another snapshot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us a little bit about that, so often, that's one of the ones I think people may not credit directly to you, but it's in our ears now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just how that opportunity came to be and what you all produced, which is a tremendous song.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm just honored to be invited into those rooms.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think John Thimmick Reynolds is,
[SPEAKER_04]: Just an amazing songwriter.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and enough.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it was it was a beautiful opportunity Just to you know when we're in a songwriting space it's it's a wrestle, you know Just like what work can we use is that we're it's singable and me
[SPEAKER_04]: It may, it may, like, communicate what we mean, but is it accessible to the people?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is it going to be something that they can easily have in their mouths?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, so we're thinking about what melodies is singable.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, is it too high?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it too much of a, of a jump?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, like a child, be able to remember this with your grandma.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: because it is a community in Malcolm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, you know, that kind of stuff teaches you how to take all of this, you know, whatever's going on, all the education, but it teaches you how to make it accessible, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: And in that way, I feel like it's the act of hospitality in serving the church, you know, you see people what they need, so you're right, of course, they need some knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can stretch them, but I think meeting people where they are with me is so that that song it just means a lot to me and even like in the first verse it puts the intention on God, and his holiness and his goodness and the second verse is putting the emphasis on us in response to who God is.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like thinking in those ways and just like how can this song
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Orlando, can you talk to us just about the technical, like, just songwriting experience of, you're just writing as long as you and God, you know, that process, it didn't also.
[SPEAKER_00]: collaborating with other people and just that process and what that what is there a difference what does it require and just what is that process break it down for those of us who love music but don't know nothing about the process of what it means to write a song.
[SPEAKER_04]: So sometimes, when I'm in kind of a personal songwriting, you know, sometimes a song can come just like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's like it's all there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But sometimes like I can meditate on something for six months, for a year, just like there's a song here, but I just have to find the right words and the right melody.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just need those things to all intersect, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate both.
[SPEAKER_04]: I will say that when you learn how to collaborate with people There's a lot of egos that may come into place, but you know, you learn how to take criticism You learn how you learn language.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if I'm we should go with this lyric Let's try this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: You learn how to talk to people
[SPEAKER_04]: and wrestle and work it out, you know, and even like with, you know, I'm finding that those songs that I am wrestling or meditating on for six months, I can bring it to a friend.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, this is, this is what I'm thinking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you say to this?
[SPEAKER_04]: How would you, you know, sing this or what would you write to this?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a beautiful thing when you've worked at it and I love collaboration.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think you mentioned congregational singing and, you know, I was raised in a tradition where, you know, people line, line the hymns or line the songs and there's congregational singing and singing preachers and all of those pieces, you raised that as something that you would have heard in your own story of developing as a kid in church.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is loss to the faith community when we are not engaging in congregational singing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just from your vantage point as a songwriter who contributes all kinds of songs, like the songs that I sang in my car when I'm getting ready in the morning or songs that we could sing as a congregation together is a diversity of music that you produce.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know that in you mentioning kind of that being a part of your development.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we also know that there are spaces where that's just not, that's not a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's not courage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, saying he is not a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what would be your wisdom that you would offer churches and communities about why that's still really important for us to sing together?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Such a good question.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like singing together.
[SPEAKER_04]: Such a transcendent thing, especially body of believers, coming together, and you're, you know, when it's a good community, healthy community, you're listening to your neighbor, you know, you're, you know, about your neighbor and what they're going through, you know, and so sometimes you're,
[SPEAKER_04]: You're singing over them.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're singing for them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then sometimes you're singing for yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's just like, it's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's such a transcendent.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the beauty, you know, there may be a taught, there may be a situation where this person can't sing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you won't notice if a group of people is singing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, karaoke is no thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Crowd singing is such a beautiful experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's whether you can sing or not just join along and be a part of something, belong to something.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, as a worship leader for 15 plus years, you know, you begin to, you know, you're sitting from say, do you begin to see people, oh, what does that person need?
[SPEAKER_04]: What him does that person need?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, what, you know, and it's, you begin to vote, you begin to see even crafting a liturgy as like an act of hospitality, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I remember, and in my last church situation where you, I would just see like a grandmother.
[SPEAKER_04]: sitting there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was seeing a song like, hold to his hand.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and I would put my gospel kind of feel, and I knew she understood it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, sometimes I just look at it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know this part, this is how I speak to this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you just, you know, you value stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I really appreciate congregational for that reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: A true minister of music.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, knowing the people, knowing where they're at.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sensing a power to spirit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel like songs are our stories, so when you're writing for a context of the people or you're crafting a lyrgy, you know their story, you know what they're being, and so what does the people need this week, you know, and you carry that way, and I believe the Holy Spirit is just guiding you to every step of that one, yeah, that's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is rich, I can't wait for you
[SPEAKER_00]: Do a little something for us, but I'm ready here, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, Truth Table, Black women's Musings on Life, Love and Liberation, is making waves and shifting culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: I closed this book feeling like I had just partaken in a multi-course meal, filled with grace and the courage to carry on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I believe you'll finish this book feeling the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Morgan Harper Nichols artists in poet.
[SPEAKER_02]: By Truth's Table, black women's musings on life-loving liberation at our website or wherever books are sold.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, one of my favorites, it's a, it's a, it's a toss-up between the song for anxiety and other plans.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think our plans in mind have been this as you have communicated to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just love what song did you like the story behind other plans?
[SPEAKER_00]: That song came into my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: From a dear friend of ours, she literally sent it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't even know what was going on in my life or by the proper spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was going through a breakup.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and she sent it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on the plane.
[SPEAKER_00]: It literally just happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: She sent it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I listened to her right before takeoff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was into, just like, it really ministered to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, you know, it's not curious about the story behind that song.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's what Yon Hunter who began with some.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just curious about that the story behind that and that was a collaborative one too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate he actually asked me to write about if I'm not mistaken when you think an opportunity is like just write in front of it and it doesn't work out and like the questioning you know and you know so I had to kind of almost like how actor gets in character but
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a very human experience as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I just had to tap into, you know, and so I think one of the line that lines in that song that stands out is how do I deal when your answer is no, you know, and you know, you don't hear a Christian song.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although there's a lot of knows that there's a lot more songs about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't hear a lot of songs about that, but
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very real thing, so I feel like when you write songs that are honest, that allows you to connect with people, whether they're Christian or not, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a very evangelistic, in that meaning by being really honest about the struggles the suffering, right, God's no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, everybody can relate to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether you're a believer, right, that disappointment.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for you, you thought I was going to go this way and it went another way.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something about honesty, especially honesty that people don't want to, to communicate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is inherently evangelistic and community building.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: and embrace credibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think of that as a true stable, for example, and we don't do this perfectly, but I think that there's a reason why there are people who are not believers or who are one put in the church one foot out of the church who still lean into listen, because I think they, I hope and pray that they know they're not, we're not going to gas like them.
[SPEAKER_02]: about what is happening in the world or the emotions that they might have with the disappointment that they might have.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that the reason why I'm saying is because the statement that I think you just said is just so profound that the truth in the song makes a jump out of genre, right to whoever needs it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The person was like, I'll listen to the question of music, not listen to the gospel music, but the truth jumps out of genre to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is one of the things that is so
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: About your work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and, you know, I was formed in the Anglican church.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I always cling to, like, holy week, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: And if, you know, when we experienced holy week, we went into the depths and the limit, the grief, the heart of the Holy Week.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what I found is, like, when you allow yourself to do that, it makes Easter all the more authentic, you know, that's not this,
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a big deal, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not an authentic joy, it's real, you know, because you've allowed yourself to go through that process.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, that's, I think that's something that we can embrace in life.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, allow yourself to fill all these things because the joy that comes is authentic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: People can see that and show up.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is why I think the Passover song has always resonated with me and the way that it connects.
[SPEAKER_02]: the narrative of scripture from old to New Testament to now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, and knowing a little bit about kind of your background, you're early church background and influences, I was like, there should be more songs like this, but I'm so glad that you given that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your husband and I request.
[SPEAKER_00]: Indeed.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, I really, I do feel like the Lord has really placed you here for such a time as this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Gen Z is requiring the church to be more honest, to be more real about our true authentic experience of what it means to walk with Jesus, the cost of what
[SPEAKER_00]: God says, yes, a whole lot too, but I think that your music gracefully calls us to look at ourselves in the mirror before God, you know, we live before the face of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like your music really brings us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes that a very tangible reality, and it really causes us to be like, no, be honest, about your anxiety, be honest, about the way you hurly rushed your life, be honest, you know, that you're disappointed that things didn't go the way do you thought that they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just, I'm grateful and I'm really excited to see where the Lord is going to.
[SPEAKER_00]: take you and and position you for such a time as this and and I pray that the lower raise up many more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am sons.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my you know just my I just wanted to say that you know I would give you your flowers you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because your work is so valuable and I think people are starting to see that but you've got to be booked in busy brother.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so grateful for your willingness to bless us with pieces of some of these songs, and so, and I know that our audience will be encouraged in the same way that we have hypes you up, and we mean every bit of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we are, yeah, and so I know to be a real blessing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for joining us for this, for this portion of our time and we're eager to really get into the music.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, but you know, before we go in there, tell the people where they can listen to your music.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to talk to a whole lot, the song with Jonathan McRennel's.
[SPEAKER_04]: Follow you, book you, what up, book you, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I am Sun Music is my Instagram handle.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can find me on Spotify, Apple Music iTunes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anywhere you listen to music under the name I am Sun I am S.O.N.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, we just released a song called Still, by Jonathan McRoynells.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can hear that on wherever you listen to music.
[SPEAKER_04]: Booking at I am SunMusic.com is how you can book me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Next up is one of my favorite songs by I.M.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sun, and I stumbled upon this song years ago, and it's a video where I saw Orlando simply singing about the Passover, and I realized that there just aren't many songs about that important moment in Scripture the way it also the Passover leaves us right to see and understanding the work of Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm excited that he will be
[SPEAKER_04]: So the song is called, The Passive of the Song.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my mind looks back To the last great night Oh, my God, search for the blood
[SPEAKER_03]: When you saw the rare resting on the books, then my God passed over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear the children sing to the mighty King of kings?
[SPEAKER_03]: They said, I am covered, I am covered for my God passed over me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm alive today, in my sense of race, for the blood has come.
[SPEAKER_03]: We prepared to march out of Pharaoh's reach, but we dressed in an ace.
[SPEAKER_03]: When the hour came, got to live in us, then we weren't a long slaves.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear the chair from sing to the mighty king of kings?
[SPEAKER_03]: They said, I am comfort, I am comfort for my God past over me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm alive today in my sense of race, for the blood is coming me.
[SPEAKER_03]: How can I forget, on that great day, when the cries start for the world?
[SPEAKER_03]: He became the lamp, perfect sacrifice, bring every boy and girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you hear the nations sing to the mighty King of kings?
[SPEAKER_03]: They say, are you in charge?
[SPEAKER_03]: My God passed on, I'm alive today, in my sense of grace, for the blood has come.
[SPEAKER_03]: Salvation, salvation, Jesus, blood and died for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: For the blood has come me, For the blood has come me, For the blood has come, For it reaches to the highest mountain.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it flows to the Lord, is valley All the blood that gives me strength From day to day
[SPEAKER_03]: It's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power, it's power
[SPEAKER_03]: That gives me strength From day to day
[SPEAKER_03]: I will not boast anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: No gifts, no power, no wisdom.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I will boast in Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: His death and resurrection.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why should I gain from this reward?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't have given answer, but this I know with all my heart, his wounds have pained my ribs