[SPEAKER_00]: Hello everyone and welcome to a brand new episode of the cinephiles live here on this cinephiles YouTube channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a genre one half of the cinephiles join us always by my other half here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Steve Morris, how are you Steve on this Sunday?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just trying to represent my half as well as I possibly can.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's my job here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's both our jobs that's going to show, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are here live on the show for those of you who may be new or subscribed to the cinephiles for the first time, or recently, we do this show, a show.
[SPEAKER_00]: We try to do a live show every month.
[SPEAKER_00]: We try to do at least one live show every month if we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes the schedules get a little too tight for us to do a live show, but we really try to do one every month that gives a break to Steve who edits the show a little bit, but also lets us connect with you all a little more in real time.
[SPEAKER_00]: as we have an interactive conversation about a certain topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And last month, Steve, we had the Marvel countdown of the Good Middling, Great Movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that got a lot of comments, a lot of back and forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder today, as we tackle this subject here, which is our favorite movies that tackle the creative process with their artistic process.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what it says about the process and about these movies and about us as a species and as artists, I think it's going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, conversation to be had as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it started with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing whiplash and is it okay with you if I announce our next film that we're about.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's working on because our next film, which has a strange connection.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't, it wasn't because of this that this became next, but the next film we're doing is the devil wears product because the soul is out in the theaters and all of a sudden I went, wow, we've got two abusive bosses, young people,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, oh, yes, environments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but they're also both in their way about art.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is the art of jazz music, one is the art of fashion and creating a magazine, and how do you navigate yourself within that?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we just started talking about other films, and we said, and we had this idea, well, let's talk about films that talk about art or the process of making art.
[SPEAKER_01]: And man, I don't know about you, but my list got longer and longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we could do,
[SPEAKER_01]: five episodes discussing some of these movies because they're so interesting and the fun thing about these live shows doing them with you is where the regular show is very structured.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I don't know which way this is going to go or what we're going to discuss.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had to cut it at 30 films my list because I think if I kept going, it would have been 100 because there are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deceptively, there are a lot of films about
[SPEAKER_00]: the creative process, whether they'll be, whether they're exploring the artist as they make these things, whether they're exploring a group of people as they make these things, one of the films on my list, topsy-turvy, whether it's a duo that is exploring how they're creating the Makato, there, what that brings up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, the great ones here, give you a window into what the process is like for a human being, not just an artist, but for a human being to tackle this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We find a universality in the great ones, you know, because hardly any of us are geniuses at art to create the things that speak for yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but we, but the way that we can connect to movies like this is if we find a little of commonality to universality in the process of creating art because all of us have had to create something at some point in our lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what speaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: to the great ones and the ones that are middling not as strong, it's because they don't really spend a lot of time showing you the process which would connect you to the character even more to this famous person you're profiling even more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one of the, what was funny is I started coming up with my list and my list, by the way, there are 83 movies on my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we're not going to talk about all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not all of them, not all of them, not all of them are even ones that I love.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like once you start putting a list together, it sounds are to stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the big thing that struck me is that they kind of fit into different categories, or they have different things in common.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what, you know, there's the tortured artist.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, right, and there's also, you know, a whole sub genre that are the biopics of actual real famous people versus fictionalized people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other distinction I found that I thought was really interesting was sometimes it's about professionals learning how to make professional art or the journey of a professional art.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are other ones that really aren't about professionals, they're about amateurs, and they're really about the place art can have in your to enrich a normal life.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why art should be important to me, not necessarily that I'm going to be a great artist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like I started looking at all these in a lot of different ways, and I found that just super interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's fascinating, too, because we're at a time, Stephen, our society where art is being looked at and questioned and taken apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly, this week, the big conversation has been about, you know, how do we do the Odyssey without pissing you know, everybody off, and should we do it race, correction, we do it ethnicity, correct?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the stuff that goes on, which you could argue is kind of can be, isn't, I'm like I said, it's 100% but it can be,
[SPEAKER_00]: detrimental to the artist who is trying to express themselves through a canvas like this and what it can lead to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yesterday or two days ago at Khan, Vin Diesel came out and had a comment because they were celebrating 25 years of fast nefarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said that basically populist art should not be
[SPEAKER_00]: Removed from great art should not be removed from the classification of great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's an interesting conversation to have because we are very much aware of it as arts funding is being caught as arts are seen as you know indoctrinating people are grooming people like it's a really interesting time right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: with artistry, it has to fight to stay like, fight to be seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even people, less people go into the movie theaters.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of this is symptomatic of what's going on with art.
[SPEAKER_00]: So getting back in touch with all how important art is through these movies, just revisited them for this conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was important for me personally.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you feel about this process?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was really interesting, and what's funny about the, I hadn't heard that comment from Vin Diesel, you said it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hadn't heard that comment from him, but I think that's that represents a lot of what we've tried to do on the cinephiles.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you and I don't approach Deadpool any differently than we do in independent film like Whiplash.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're different the genre is different, but to me, it's all serious art like I think, you know, I think Avengers and game is serious art.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, it's different from seeing pulp fiction or from do the right thing or like all sorts of other films.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just watched a clockwork orange for the first time in about 15 years last night.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is art.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if I like a clockwork orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I watch it, I'm just so unhappy and like, uh, but I'm like, well, this is art.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, there's the, I think this is an incredibly important conversation to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the quote from, I think from Winston Churchill that's something like, you know, we need to cut our funding for the art to pay for the war and Churchill says something like, then what are we fighting for?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think there's the fact that we, I mean, when you were in school, I'm assuming there were classes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there is unless and less money for art classes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the thing about it is like, because our education system is mostly become about sorry, this is like going on a tangent.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we won't spend talking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because our education system is going as gone to a, how does this help you get a job, your education is to help you make money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think your education, that's part of what it's supposed to do, but it's also supposed to help you to live a good life that understanding art is not actually job training.
[SPEAKER_01]: For most people, it's about life training.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's the thing is that it enriches all of our lives all sorts of different art in all sorts of different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well,
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is these are excellent points you bring up, Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I 100% agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why when you look at the world now and the way it's constructed and what we see happening, how people in power, the billionaires, the wealthy, their turning, wanting to turn says all societies into an essence, a work-focused society.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a let's appreciate being alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's appreciate humanity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's appreciate that we exist in the world existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want a work existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you create people who just do their jobs, stay at their desk and and make the company owners and the billionaires money?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you remove arts funding, you don't let them appreciate nature, appreciate art, appreciate movies, appreciate music, any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You turn it into somehow a less masculine thing, push a toxic masculinity narrative, and that undercuts the power of art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what you've done is create people who don't necessarily think of art or see art all the time, and so they're lost in just kind of doing what they need to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what they want to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why they cut funding for the arts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they know arts, the arts of what makes you stand up, the arts of what makes you see that there's a better existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: The art is what makes you rebel against a company owner or a corporation or a billionaire that wants to turn you into an automaton, wants to turn you into metropolis.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is another element of it all, which is why it's so important to fight for art and for art to be funded and to see what people can create.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when a toxic fandom jumps in and goes, you better not cast this person as this role without letting an artist show you why they're doing it and what they do with it, I think it's detrimental to the overall existence of art, which will destroy our society.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% I think art is a foundational pillar of our society and profile and talking about these movies exploring it in these movies, I think proves that point over and over and over again because so many of us are influenced by movies, by books, by music, by a piece of art that we see on the walls in a museum, like sculpture, all kinds of things we can be motivated by that are arts related and they
[SPEAKER_00]: inspire us to do other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean that they inspire us to be an artist, but they inspire us to create, and you can create a vaccine, you can create a way of helping people solve a problem, you can create a mathematical problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are things that allow your mind to think past the box, and art is so important to that, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Great, great points.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how every single one of us, I mean, I'm assuming that most of the people that are watching right now, yeah, you know, obviously care about movies or they probably aren't watching the cinephiles.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that I will say confidently that every single person who's listening or watching this right now has had a moment in a movie where they saw themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had a moment in the movie where they saw their relationship where they saw their childhood where they saw their mother that something connected to them and felt true.
[SPEAKER_01]: felt honest, felt real, and we've also all had the situation where you looked at a world that was completely unlike your own.
[SPEAKER_01]: And suddenly that world became human and you gained new understanding and new appreciation or you looked at the world slightly differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not saying that the purpose of art is to change the world necessarily, but I do think that art changes the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it changes the world in the most fundamental way because art has the power to change us.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's important.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, and there's, I mean, like, sometimes you just want to laugh or you want to watch a crazy fight scene or you want to get scared shitless sometimes that's what you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's important too because, you know, it's sort of like I'm going to go back to that Churchill quote, it's like if we make everything in the world about how about your job and how you pay the bills, then what the hell are you paying your bills for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's going to lead to depression and mental health issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it suicide rates going up art is so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why I truly believe this, whatever you see people in power trying to destroy something that is beneficial to humanity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is because they fear it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the thing you're seeing now is that the giant push to destroy art to whatever with the Kennedy Center, what's happening with so many programs around the country and around the world and other countries as well, it's this push to destroy art because art scares the establishment because art can lead to rebellion, art can lead to thinking past what you've been handed, what they want you to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's important to
[SPEAKER_01]: celebrated at every chance we get and keep it going in every chance we get and fight against them trying to cut funding for any of this stuff because we never know who's going to be inspired by this that will change as you said so well Steve that will change our world you know for sure well and it's also celebrate and I know we got to talk and talk about some movies but yeah I'd like to you know we just had I think it's coming out this coming week is the short we recorded about the conversation or about the article about Christopher Nolan and the Odyssey
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the big thing to me is like, it is not about necessarily giving you the audience exactly what you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you do go to a movie and go, yes, I wanted to laugh at a really funny movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I got.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes art is there to be unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if art were never surprising, and what that means by the way, and this is me watching Clockwork Orange last night, sometimes you're not going to like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay, you know like it's it's sometimes it's challenging sometimes it's not your thing, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist
[SPEAKER_00]: because it's supposed to be and you never know what you find challenging at 20 years old that at 40 years old will all of a sudden open itself up to you and you're just you absorb it like crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shakespeare was that way with me like I understood and knew that Shakespeare was important.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't understand it until I went to study at London with through Florida State.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was that moment that Selena Cadel unlocked
[SPEAKER_00]: the world of Shakespeare for me to appreciate it and even deeper levels than I ever appreciated it before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why it's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there because someone else does and will appreciate it for that reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, anyway, we're so much to get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good intro.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's jump into things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to I put some thumbnails up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've got so many films that have covered art through the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the free to follow film basket there a young Jeffrey right Daniel day Louis there my love for you got
[SPEAKER_00]: Willem Defoe and the Vincent Van Gogh film that he did just a few years ago, you've got Barton Finch, which we've talked about before you and I as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So quite a few films that have explored art.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, Amidayas are our new white whale that we had some day will do and come back to and do again for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ray was interesting one from recent years as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of my favorite films Shakespeare Love is another film that tackles art and creating writing a play, how he's inspired by the interactions with Viola to write 12th night.
[SPEAKER_00]: As I mentioned, the free to callo a film here that really announced some a high-tech as a legitimate talent to be taken seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know Steve, there's also humor.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some great art being made in this spinal tap, which is a film we talked about and covered as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of places you can go with so many.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just like a little bit of the films that have to tackle the art.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Steve, please, what films do you want to talk about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you want to highlight?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the films you want to stress and talk about when he comes to artistic process?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's start my feeling is like, let's start at the at the biopic, the great artist, the great film about the great artist and there's no better place to start than what you described is our white whale.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and what you mean by that, on a day as I think is maybe our fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: episode that we did on the cinephiles.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we spent like an hour on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that was the first good episode of the cinephiles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that to me was where where like you and I started to click and I felt and I remember we talked after and like, oh, that was kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have talked about redoing it forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is a not a it is not an accurate depiction of the actual Mozart.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's truthiness in there, but it is one of the great, great explorations of what it is to be an artist and in particular, it isn't the character of Amadeus who is absolutely astounding and brilliantly played by Tom Hulse and funny and interesting and fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the character of Salieri.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Salieri, because honestly, as you said, and I'm joking about it, but like, I'm not Mozart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I hope you will not be offended if I say that you're not Mozart, but you and I have both been Salieri.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, like seeing being able.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what is the cinephiles?
[SPEAKER_01]: It is it is looking at the great art and feeling that we understand it and wanting to understand it and exploring it and deep down knowing, oh, I could never make that, you know, right, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think that's what's so great about that film because we see how effortlessly he creates the art, but effortlessly in terms of the talent, not effortlessly in terms of what he endures to create the art, the pressure from his father, the pressure from the emperor, the pressure from his wife, the pressure from saluting in the mask.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much pressure on him all the time when all he really wants to do and it's almost, it's almost a goodwill hunting type of
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He really just wants to hang out with his people and his friends and drink and have fun or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can write a symphony like nobody's business, but he doesn't want to feel the pressure of having to end up having to pay for stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just wants to live life as freely as he can and write his symphonies when he feels like it, not when he is forced to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we see all the emperors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we see all of that course and throughout, but then when the salienty thing, as you mentioned Steve Sowell, this idea of all of us
[SPEAKER_00]: Glimpsed, greatness near us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we're being honest with ourselves, had moments of jealousy about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you recognize it so much so skilled at what they're able to do, what is that experience?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what's great about the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: We cheer for Emma Day, we cheer for Mozart, but we uncomfortably find ourselves having a kinship of salivate, whether we wanted, minute or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's profiling how great art is being made within the movie itself too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Two things I'd like to add and I know we have essentially an infinite number of movies that we could discuss on this, but one of them is that one of the things that Mozart struggles with is that it's so obvious to him that this is what we should do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's fighting against people who won't let him have the ballet and so they take the music out of that scene or or them saying or too many notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, he's the right amount is that it's the difference between the battle of creating the art and knowing you made something good.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the battle of getting anybody to see the art or a group of the art or understand the art.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing, and I think this goes without, yeah, this goes without saying of almost all the movies I think that we're talking about is if you actually see the art or hear the music or watch the performance, it has to deliver in this kind of a movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in Amadeus, the music
[SPEAKER_00]: to experience it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm watching this young man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't much about classical music at all and then watching that kind of open the doors to me exploring it and having fun with it as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and like I said, it takes historical liberties, but it gets pretty much the essence of what the film is trying to say, right, which I think is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: The job of the movie is to make a great movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not necessarily to be historically accurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we do it on the show, we'll point out like, This is inaccurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not the point.
[SPEAKER_01]: The point is if you ring it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's another one that you want to profile before I choose one of mine?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, I want to, why don't we, why don't we save an alternate?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, why don't we alternate?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what's, what's the one to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, you know, Steven, I have big Beatles fans and I would say the get back documentary series, I think was an amazing exploration of art.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just watching what those four guys created in
[SPEAKER_00]: the studio and what they went through in putting it together, compiling all this stuff to Peter Jackson did.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like to me, as avid as a Beatles fan, I've seen just about every documentary, like that isn't a cheesy 45 minute cobble together documentary, like legitimate documentaries on the Beatles and profiles and red books and watch all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet I still found myself just absolutely in awe of watching the process of these four men.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might say, well, as the documentary doesn't count, yes, it does, absolutely, because of how that thing is edited to show the artistic process of these four men creating the art that they created there near the end of midst all the drama, midst all the tension.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also amidst all the love and the friendship there as well and what that all took to create.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I am not a musician.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, watching the effortless nature with which all four of those guys played their instruments and then
[SPEAKER_00]: It gave advice about where to jump in or what to write or what chorus to use or refrain or all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was in all of it and I thought this was a really great way to explore how art is being made through the prism of for incredibly talented people that we know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was phenomena.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, as I was putting my list together, I think the Beatles is a whole subcategory because and I agree a hundred percent and anyone who likes the documentary doesn't deserve to be in this list, well, it's a good thing you and I are the ones who are making this list.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I rewatched to get back for the second time about a month ago, oh wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be a little while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is one of the great explorations of how art is made.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the big things, and again, this goes to, you know, what I always think of as the people in the cheap sheets, seats who have never made something is that they don't know what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the greatest geniuses who've ever formed a rock band together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet they're figuring it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's so amazing about that documentary, because it says, yeah, we're going to be as long as we want to be as you just sit with them for a long time, washing geniuses, figure something out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you can, what's so crazy, because I'm just like you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know the Beatles really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've read a bunch of books.
[SPEAKER_01]: But by the way, if you read a John and Paul, I think it's a love story and songs.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, yeah, Matt's suggested that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bought it after we had the three of us had the conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bought so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, is that as you're watching them create things and figure it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you know the music well, like yep, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you if you know the music well, you can hear like, oh, there's a little thread of something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's the that's the melody, but that's not the lyric that's going to be in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm telling you.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're I have never ever seen a moment like Paul McCartney coming up with get back on the base on the spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is is the most it's the only moment I've ever seen genius happen in real time where you're just.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just want you're just there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, this is a hundred percent is on the list of great films about art.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also think, you and I have both watched a whole bunch of probably lesser films about the Beatles because we're gonna watch every Beatles talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have, you know, there's like backbeat, there's the John and Paul in New York, like two of us, I think it's got two of us, like, like, that's what we say is like the Beatles and I would say Elvis as well,
[SPEAKER_00]: are holding on to themselves, you know, and it doesn't end.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Janet, there's a John and Yoko new doc that's out on HBO Max that came out in the theaters a few months ago, but I just recently watched the Wings documentary, which is interesting exploration as well of how Paul
[SPEAKER_00]: put the band together and how they created some of the music they created, how Linda weaved her way into it, you know, and I thought it was really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The last 10, 15 minutes kind of loses its way, but overall good documentary.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many to explore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not to mention the two part, George Harrison documentary that Lawrence Corsay's coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys haven't watched that one, that's a massive one to watch about how George created this stuff because I agree with you that moment with Paul coming up with get back on the base and then the moment where George is like, oh, I've come up with something and he's seeing and just like giving you the first few lyrics of all things must pass he is creating.
[SPEAKER_00]: one of the most signature songs that he will ever be known for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's just like, well, I just thought, you know, we play this, and then the other beat is a chiming in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I remember the moment of seeing this in the documentary and just going out of my fucking mind that they have no idea what it's going to become and what it's going to signify.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here they are just coming together to kind of like, you know, play around with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it's just mind blowing, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's a great part of that documentary as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, what's the next one for you, Steve?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think I'll take it in a very different direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't exactly a biopic because it is a fictional character, but it is very biopic adjacent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a movie I love that I would love to do someday.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about it before, which is Bob Fossi's All That Jazz.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, All That Jazz.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: All That Jazz.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's so much of your, and this guy is,
[SPEAKER_01]: stressed out and fucked up and sleeping around and doing drugs and showing up and making great art.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is, this is, you know, the thing I said when we were talking about Amadeus is like, if you're going to say this music is great, you have to deliver on great music.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Bob Fasi, director choreographer, creating a character that's basically him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then having to put choreography on screen and say, yes, I am in which the scene is, I'm a genius.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the the airline, what I forget what the song is called, fly with us or come fly with us, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: is one of the most that's that's the inspiration by the the Paul Abdull music video.
[SPEAKER_01]: Righty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The cohort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is is is one of the scenes where you'd like go, oh, we are delivering great art and showing the chaotic messy, unsure, difficult world that this guy creates to create his great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also shows you
[SPEAKER_00]: what it's like to have your obsession with creating this art cannibalize your life, like the obsession of it all, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are, as you said, there are a lot of musical biopics, but some of the ones of the most interesting ones, other ones that have that
[SPEAKER_00]: with making this a success with doing this thing and focused on it, we just talked about Amadeus, there's elements of that when he's writing the Requiem, there's an obsession of this that unsettles him just on so many levels, but he knows he's driven to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when he composes the, I mean, that's seen alone with him and
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the great things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, one of the greatest scenes, as he's like that, and even the way he's speaking to him, this is what the film is leading to, is that moment where you actually see him create the Requiem and you're just like, oh my God, when you could have dismissed him as this laughing, giggling little child to see him dial in to the, it's almost like the light of God is on him as he's creating this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just kind of,
[SPEAKER_00]: it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas with all that jazz, it feels much more desperate, much more, I need to this in order to exist, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's much more visceral and primal and foundational.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a approach which I think is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Roy Scheider is amazing in that film.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guy who never gets enough credit Steve, never gets enough credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and what's funny, all three of the examples, the the the Requiem scene in Amadeus, the watching everything that happens and get back, and so much that happens in all that jazz, should teach people that are writing in to tell Christopher Nolan what to do, that this isn't about perfection.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about process.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all of these are processes, and one of the great things in the in the Requiem scene is that
[SPEAKER_01]: only a, you know, salary area is a great composer and really understands music.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only he can understand and keep up even struggle to keep up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the days is doing is that it is that passion to make something great and figure it out and go through the process.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing about art.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's changed by the end of that process because now he understands
[SPEAKER_00]: the greatness of Mozart for real, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the things that he had made fun of him about, I think almost shamed him because now he's really seen what why he has this art that he has.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so the ability has another one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know you want to say a little bit with biopics right now, Ed Wood, I think this is a great interesting approach to art.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to make sure we can talk about all different approaches here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we could have gone with some really great filmmaker making great of a great movie, but I like the idea of the Edward approach as well, because he's the worst filmmaker ever, but watching him well, I'm sure they're worse, but watching him and his love of movies, his belief in himself, his unyielding belief in himself, and how it elevates all these other people to go on this journey with him to make these movies with him, because you know, this is a director's
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the greatest gifts you can have is to convince people to be a part of your project and give time to your project because of your passion, your inspiration, your desire to do it, people connect with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Artists connect with that, creative people connect with that, and we'll go on the journey to make your film or make your project, whatever it may be, because they believe in you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So watching that throughout the Edward film,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is amazing to see with this crazy collection of characters, the scene with him and Denoffery Osorso and Wells at the diners, one of the most amazing scenes ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tender scenes with him and Bella Goesey, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're watching him shoot those scenes on set for these films that you know, we're not going to be great, but he believes in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: He thinks they're amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that makes you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's so many phenomenal, there's so many very various ways to determine what is art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this, I have to sit back and relax and go, I'll sit back and say, this is art.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, whether it's greater or not, it is art, but it's very definition, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing about Ed Wood and and you and I know this because we've been around a lot of people making various kinds of art and spoiler alert, a lot of it, what and good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: the people passionately going after their art, whether their geniuses or Edward, the passion is the same, the feeling of I have to make this thing and I am so excited, you know, at the very beginning of the conversation, you know, you had the Vin Diesel quote about like popular art versus it's like, that's your art.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, like there's so many people that are into so many things that I am not into.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that doesn't mean there isn't great art.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean there isn't great passion for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the other thing is, with Amadeus, the talent and the passion line-up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: With Edward, maybe they don't so much, you know, or Edward has a talent for doing what he does.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's what's great about Edward is that like he is not an Amadeus.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not a Mozart.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not even a Sullyati.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when, as a filmmaker, he has a vision and he is doing his vision there in the film through those scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also when things fall apart as a filmmaker, you have to troubleshoot, you have to find that money, you have to figure things out, you know this is Steve yourself, you've had the experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: use that profile so well in the movie I like that it strips away this like like the favourments I'm not a favourments person and what absolutely shows you like okay this is what it's like to make this kind of gorilla type filmmaking and so it is profiling the creation of art and what it takes to create art it's not
[SPEAKER_00]: Charlie Robert down to junior in the dressing room, creating Charlie Chaplin of the vampire.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's a lot more of improvisation troubleshooting and flying by the city of pants.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think all of that is showcased in Edward so well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, while we're in still discussing kind of biopics.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to just lay out the, what I will call the, the general of the genre, which is basically the, you know, VH1 behind the music sort of thing, which is,
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to meet a young person who is incredibly passionate and talented, maybe from a difficult childhood in some way.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're drive is going to bring them success.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the way to success, the flaws within their characters, their insecurities, whatever leads them in a bad direction, which might involve drugs, it might involve any relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're going to kind of come around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is you brought up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's Ray, it's walk the line, it's bohemian rhapsody, it's rocket man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, do we, cocks the, the, the, walk hard to do it, it's like that, that just whole, and the thing is we eat them up, you like we, you know, like the, they're almost.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're usually successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've enjoyed everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, if they've cast it well in the music is good, that I'll go on that journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it is a very true story about a lot of people coming up in the world of art who get massive success, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your next one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, uh, then, then if I'm going to take it in an entirely different direction, maybe it's a free.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the other thing is there's lots of movies where it's not about the professional.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about art in our world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first one that pops to my mind is dead
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why it's important for poetry to be in your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Poetry is about dreams and romance and love and beauty and art and all the things that life make life worth living and you know there really is only one kid in that classroom who wants to pursue actually a profession in the arts and spoiler alert that's the kid that kills himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it isn't about it's not about the profession.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about this is why art
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: That movie, I mean, it might be time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we've done that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it might be time to do it at some point in the next couple of years.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be interesting to tackle that because it's been so long since we did that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we love ramen limbs.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do remember that being as a, because it came at 89.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm a teenager.
[SPEAKER_00]: late teens watching that in the movie theater.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a guy who's done acting in high school, who wants to become an actor, but doesn't have the guts to do it at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I escaped into the military, I escaped into another university and then eventually find my way back nine years later to pursue it and try to make something of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just remember sitting there watching
[SPEAKER_00]: something that I can identify with, something I understand, and it profiles that artistry through that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get inspired.
[SPEAKER_00]: These people, and how important it is to be inspired by people to create art, to find what you're supposed to be as an artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we were a better society, we would encourage more people who want to become artists, to be artists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's not an easy life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough life.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always that caveat.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you just never know if they'll find their path through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that film showcases how important art really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how people in power want to shut voices down that seek to create art and seek to give you a voice and your freedom, which is what art really symbolizes is freedom of expression.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you see that there in that movie as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very powerful stuff for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if we stay with writing, one that a lot of people don't talk about, and I saw years ago with Adam Driver, called Patterson.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I was on Patterson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, direct about Jim Jarmoosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Adam Driver plays this, essentially, this bus driver who writes poetry in his notebook.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he writes some of the most beautiful poetry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, Steve, it's about the art.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to see the art.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see the poems that he writes here are just so moving and and touching and he's not a tortured artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not someone who's enduring all kinds of pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just creating it from observations of the world around it and putting it together and creating these poems and I liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a film that goes left when he expected to go right to Zigg instead of Zag, because we don't have the artist who is suffering or struggling or pained or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an artist who has this come to him and he writes his stuff down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a very simple, elegant approach to the idea of art and that it can be real without having to suffer for it or be in pain over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that art has just as much value as the art that has struggled and obsessed over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I like that that was an element of patterns or an energy and patterns that I hadn't seen before in a film like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I thought that was really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'd like to because I actually think that of all the arts.
[SPEAKER_01]: portraying the art of writing on film is almost the most impossible because it is it is just words and so you don't have the beautiful symphony you don't have the beautiful dance or something like that and and the process of writing is incredibly boring visually and I can tell you
[SPEAKER_01]: So most of the movies that when I was teaching film school, they really wanted to do movies about horrible, violent, terrible suicide rape torture.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's all my students.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they wanted to make all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other one that came up all the time was the person with writer's block.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they're right, what they all have.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all have writer's block.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're like, oh, I have this experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so, I mean, writer's block feels terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the worst.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is emotional as awful, but it is visually fucking boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'd always go like, well, how are you shot?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the process of writer's block is I'm just sitting here looking at a computer doing nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: or I wander into the kitchen and I look in the fridge and then I kind of do something else and like it is literally nothing happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so trying to show where is the process of the beetles getting together to figure out an album is super exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the day I said, Salieri, trading over the Requiem or choreographing a dance thing, those things are great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Watching a person alone in a room trying to come up with good words is visually terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is why I think adaptation is one of the, that's also one of the great films about art creating art and as Steve was mentioning writing, how do you make writers block exciting?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you give your writer a twin and then you have them go on this journey to try to solve their writers block.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have Robert McKee or Brian Cox playing Robert McKee, do a cameo here explaining the story, the book story and what was going on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you make it interesting how they're going on this journey to solve this writer's block and then what it leads to and because you also just oppose it.
[SPEAKER_00]: with a voiceover work being done there for the White Oli Ender story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that all of that is weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think annotation is an incredible exploration of what it's like to be a real obsessed writer and what it's like to be stuck and try to get over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the crazy things you try to do and go through to try to get past your writer's block, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: adaptation is, I mean, like, that is such a perfect example of a goddamn genius coming up with a way to create a feeling that is incredibly boring and it's been an amazingly exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's, I mean, that guy, it's Charlie, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Charlie Kaufman, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Charlie Kaufman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: What an unusual genius he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to think what my next one should be, let's go in an entirely different direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: A movie that I think the more you think of it makes very little sense, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: And is one of the great most joyous, lovely movies that I adore and not as singing in the rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, singing in the rain, talking about the process of making movies and it's just like wait what they're they were doing a silent film that's like a period piece, but then they turn it into a musical and then you're like this Broadway melody thing that looks nothing like the period piece and like wait what's happening in this movie and it doesn't matter
[SPEAKER_01]: because the joy of singing in the rain is so much fun and I do not I mean there are there are things in it like how you deal with sounds and how like cameras work and things like that that are about the art of making film but really it's just an incredibly joyful musical yeah agreed I mean that that is
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people talk about films that all Hollywood loves itself, a love letter, a Hollywood, all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a way to do that where it finds where you find the real magic of what it's like to work in the business and what it's like to create what you can create in that business.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they deal with, I mean, the using the advent of sound is such a brilliant prism to create that movie through and all the things that happened around all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: and still keep the drama and the tension of people losing their jobs to sound, but also seeing them explore this new opportunity and what they can do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And doing it all on the sound stages and whatever, but also again, what you have to struggle with, which is sometimes studio politics, sometimes the ego of the diva star.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to navigate all of that sometimes in order to make the great art and bring in your girlfriend to voice over the songs for the diva because she wants to be seen good in the contract issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that they export all of that within the film is a bit of realism amidst the musical which sometimes gets lambasted for being fantastical, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your next?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let me see, that's a tough one to follow up with.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I have here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shine, which is a film, no one talks about anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe that it is 30 years old, officially this year, which is insane to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the film that announced Jeffrey Rush to everybody, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: He won the best actor Oscar for this,
[SPEAKER_00]: portrayal here and the way into me there's a lot of connections to Amadeus not because not just because that he's playing right man and off the third not just because it's you know classical music and not just because he's a torture guy, but
[SPEAKER_00]: So much about what he's going through here throughout the process in this film of being a genius, but having again a domineering father like Amadeus did, who was trying to push him farther and farther, except he was a little bit more susceptible to the mental health breakdown that happens to him than maybe Amadeus is until later in his life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we see what the process of art can do to a young man if you use it to break him.
[SPEAKER_00]: and what can happen to him and how he finally goes on this journey to find his way back to the art to find his way to be able to play this art again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I cry every time I watch that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeffrey is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Armin Moore stars his dad.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they have that one scene when he returns later in the film, you're just wrecked.
[SPEAKER_00]: And um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, is it Jean Stapleton who's the who's the place the, oh, no, sorry, not who am I thinking of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, again, who plays the woman he falls in love with at the end, who's through the most of the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very famous British actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget her name, but right now, but yeah, she's fantastic as the back and forth with him as he's finding his way back out of the morass to be able to play again and display his art again, which is phenomena, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: She shine as a great choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was on my list too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a good movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am really upset for you to tell me that it was 30 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing about that, that it shows and you see this in a bunch of films is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Genius art artistic talent can be a burden, it's hard, it isn't an easy task master, it isn't it isn't always easy to deal with and particularly in the contrast between your passion and your talent and your eagerness to do the thing and whether or not anyone's letting you do the thing or what the perfection or the distance between the perfect art that you imagine that's in your head,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what you're actually able to create, you know, because that's a salary everything too of he can understand Mozart, but he can't get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's shine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny because I think if we watched whiplash and shine back to the wall, you know, because there's like a lot of like, yeah, that's that's where Andrew and whiplash goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he doesn't succeed at the end of the movie, it's very possible that he ends up as that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: great point if he doesn't stop and turn back around and remove himself on the thumb as father's embrace and get back on that stage go toe to toe with the flexor he may end up as you said yeah very well like the guy in shine you know or if he goes back on that stage and it sucks
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and it sucks right exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, the actress is lead red gray.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can't blow, we got that lead red gray for God's six.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so much of that movie just kind of hang, it's hung with me since I saw it in 96.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've never, never let it go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I'm always mystified that that film isn't talked about more by people about how, for it's greatness and his genius.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jeffrey Rush is performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So totally good.
[SPEAKER_01]: My next one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go back to the theater.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because my next one is all about Eve.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Joseph L. Mankowitz.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I've been watching old stuff recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I watched this maybe three months ago or four months ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Eve, who's played by Anne Baxter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, deserves her places.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the greatest villains in all of movie history.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she should be put up with Darth Vader and Wow, it's in die hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Eve is so and the thing about it is that the, the, the, and what's interesting, this doesn't have to deliver on really seeing a great performance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about the shenanigans backstage.
[SPEAKER_01]: but there's so much about the status and undercutting and the arrogance of the artist and bringing the thing to them and the finding like nature of Eve when she comes when she shows up towards a Margot Channing like that's like it's all about that stuff and I think it perfectly captures
[SPEAKER_01]: many things did go on in the real world of actors and stars and theater and artists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that I think didn't she win the bet that didn't win best picture that she went to best actor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't I thought it won Oscars all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm currently on the Wikipedia page.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, one best picture, one best director.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both Anne Baxter and Betty Davis were nominated for best actress and didn't win and it won screenplay supporting actor a bunch of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the the progression of the film, as you see her in Gracie herself and and come into power more and more, and there's a ruthless to it that you know, oh my god, like it is really scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: How ruthless she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, this is again, and this great thing you bring this up, Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a great thing about old movies and people who are like, oh, I don't go back and watch old movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yet they want to celebrate the brave groundbreaking plots of the current films that have already been done back in the 30s and 40s and 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: but they didn't go backwards in time to watch them and they have a lack of knowledge of how ruthless some of these stories are back in the 40s and 50s and 60s with black and white movies and this is another one of those that shows you that, you know, because you're right, she is absolutely villains and it's so unsettling the way she grows in power throughout the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you can go toe to toe with Betty Davis for God's sake, you've done something for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, Anne Baxter in the 10 Commandments is Nefertary.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love her as an actress, and so she's such a huge part of this and seeing her embrace her power as it grows throughout the film is truly one of those like scary things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of us don't have that really just obsessive desire to succeed in where everybody is just in the way in your mind, you know, you're almost in all of that,
[SPEAKER_01]: and in horror of it, for honestly, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you bring up a really good point, and this is like part of the reason that there's so many movies about art and artists is the people making movies are artists, and so that's their world, you know, like, so that's part of the reason, but the other thing I think,
[SPEAKER_01]: In a lot of these, it's similar to like a sports movie, which is it brings all of the human tensions into super sharp relief, because we have a ticking clock.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got the performance.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to work together.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have different personalities.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have different ambitions.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have genius that can be difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all of those things really create great pressure cookers for stories and exploring the human condition.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, am I turning again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, let me see what else I've got on my list here that I want to talk about that inspires me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you just said the theater, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got to put this up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Birdman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Birdman, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is one of the most recent movies, by the way, let me break your heart again.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was 12 years ago, which is insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just crazy how much that film,
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're an artist, if you've been on the stage, how much that film kind of gets inside you is you're watching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Eddie through does a lot of weird stuff with that movie, but you're focused on Michael Keaton's journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: What he's going through.
[SPEAKER_00]: What he's trying to do trying to put this
[SPEAKER_00]: dealing with the relationship he's having to enter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Resboro is that happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not having to bring the not pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: The situation with his daughter, Emma Stone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of that coming together to try to create, and as he's trying to create this comeback vehicle for himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And come to terms with whether he is an artist to be taken serious or not because of his early success playing a superhero, which is very meta with the Batman stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that that's explored here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is,
[SPEAKER_00]: fantastic because Steve, you know, this is well, and some of you listening and watching us know this as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes creating great art, you have to navigate a fuck ton of chaos and artists sometimes find their inspiration in the chaos, which is some of the most
[SPEAKER_00]: uncomfortable things to be around, but when you see the end result, it really is kind of a mind fuck because some people do live in the chaos and create a great art from the chaos and they need the chaos from which to create the great art and you see that I think in Birdman as well, which is a challenging thing for the audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this was what was so interesting to me about finding sort of these themes and connected tissues because that's all that jazz.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: a completely phoned in Woody Allen movie that's mildly amusing and then you have an amazing Martin Scorsese movie with Nick Nolty as a painter and that is exactly what he has to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to create all sorts of emotions and chaos in my life in order to produce art.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, I mean, Birdman does such a good job of
[SPEAKER_01]: this is what making a movie is like I'm telling you man like it is you are sprinting constantly putting out fires constantly chaos constantly trying in the end to make something and get through and accomplish what you have to accomplish in your day and in your life yeah bird bird man is is a great one.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're being driven because you want to prove your legitimate serious artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you need that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that becomes like the conversation she has, he has with the critic in the bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is incredible to showcase the critic versus artist to debate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And should you really need their approval for your legitimacy?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's all of that, exactly what Vindesa was getting at.
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea of popular cinema not being seen as great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what he's navigating there in the conversation, she is pushing back as the intelligence, the critic, saying, no, it must reach this level in order to be considered legitimate art, our serious art, and he is battling from the other side
[SPEAKER_00]: battling with the need for their approval, but also hating the need for their approval, which I think is what every most artists fight with all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and certainly is real for a whole bunch of, you know, I mean, how many others are there who got known as this thing and have spent the rest of their career, either going back and doing that thing again, just that you can do it or trying to prove that they're not just that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: My next one is a film that I love that I think has been entirely forgotten by history.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never hear anybody ever talking about this and it is 1948.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is Howard Hawks' film a song is born starring Danny K and Virginia Mayo.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a screwball comedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what it is, what's crazy about the movie is that it's a remake of a
[SPEAKER_01]: not a musical called ball of fire that he then remade as a musical Danny K. Song is born as way better than ball of fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's so great about it, it's the plot is this and it's a goofy screwball comedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: The plot is that there are is an intellectual music professor trying to write an encyclopedia of music.
[SPEAKER_01]: with a whole bunch of classical musicians and they're held up in a house and then Virginia Mayo who is the gun mall of a mobster hides out in the house and they have to protect her and she brings in all these jazz musicians including Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey and Louis Armstrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: and these classical musicians have never heard jazz music, and so it's all of them playing music together through the whole thing, and the music is great, and it is so goofy and silly, and totally fun, and I highly recommend it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would like it not to be forgotten by history.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really funny goofy, screwball comedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's it called again?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's called a song is born.
[SPEAKER_01]: A song is born.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard of this move.
[SPEAKER_01]: No one has.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually, someone has, but has because Vizenda 316 says it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And oh, there are a bunch of people here who know this movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know our audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Billy, while the wrote the script as well as the script.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, this is a good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally think I am confident you will like this movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think if it's got Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Louis Armstrong, Lionel Hampton, I am 100% thinking and Danny Kay, obviously, and I love Virginia Mayo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I guess I got to put this on my list.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like Steve I've also been watching older my I'm watching more older westerns now trying to catch up on some ones I've never seen that I barely heard of, but like I need to start For putting a little variety and looking at some of these older movies as well, man, because
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right, it feels like, doesn't it feel like we're losing touch with the older movies?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was moving so fast towards this technology and towards the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, these movies still matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: They exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: The TCM festival was just here, or just there in LA, which I was bummed to miss.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there were all kinds of movies that they were showing there that I'd never seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I had known about it, I would have found a way to kind of go to that festival for those days to see those movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because seeing them in the theater with like-minded individuals is the best way to appreciate those kinds of movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new movies, I don't really want to see in full theaters that much unless they're Marvel films, but the older films, I love to watch them for the first time with other people who are watching them as well, so because you kind of get that feeling, that energy, an excitement to see if you're going to like it or not, you know, so that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will go to the stage as well with topsy turvy, which is a film I mentioned earlier in
[SPEAKER_00]: I love topsy-turvy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Lee's film is a three-hour exploration of Gilbert and Sullivan putting on the Makato, and what that is all about.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: the Gilbert and Sullivan both navigating the fact that they've hit a wall because they've just essentially repeated themselves over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a Gilbert who's at Sullivan who wants to break out, I think it's Gilbert who wants to break out and do his own thing and Sullivan is like, no, we're fine doing everything exactly the way we should be doing it and getting it Gilbert who's the one that wants to go and
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, sorry, it's Sullivan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sullivan says it feels he's not growing as an artist and Gilbert, which is played by Jim broadband, is refusing to change his methods because he's very stick in the mud throughout the music.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if it works, it works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we changing it, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Gilbert gives a little bit so that Sullivan will feel like he can come back and create something new with the Makato and they fool themselves if they're creating something new.
[SPEAKER_00]: So by the end of the movie, when it shown to them that they didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what leads to the separation of Gilbert and Sullivan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a fascinating exploration, but throughout the three our movies, you're also seeing how they put this play together, how they bring in Japanese women to teach these British actresses, how to play these Japanese women, you're seeing the actors debate their salaries over lunch,
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're seeing the, the, the team of actors rally around an actor who has been fired because they're going to cut the, the cut the role from the play and how they fight back against that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is an interesting, the costuming stuff that happens, the battle, the costumers, there's so much that is profiled in this film about making a play, making great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: that I think is a must watch for anybody who has any connection to the theater.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a three hour film, but trust me, if it hooks you, you're gonna love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a great profile and art on film.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad you've said that because you will be disappointed in me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have never seen Topsy Turdy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I meant to, I didn't know that I would love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I will make it in the next week or two, I will watch Topsy Turdy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always been to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it makes me think of another movie because I, which even though I haven't seen Topsy Turvey, which I thought was really good, which was last year's Blue Moon with Ethan Hawk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I just, I thought, because it, and it was because it was about a musical theater partnership um, that, uh, and I think, uh, it's a really, really good version of seeing the sad artist
[SPEAKER_01]: you know like and we I've been in that I've been that person I related you know we said we said very much that you know like part of it you know when you see great artists you see yourself and them well I saw myself in that character not in the most complimentary ways sometimes but like I think it's a really good movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is it Rogers and Hart, is that who it is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's profiling, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, exactly, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it's not a bottle movie, like they say a bottle episode, but it's still the way, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all in the bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and having the conversations and exploring all of this stuff and what comes up for him as he's doing all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's an interesting collection of actors with Margaret Quali and,
[SPEAKER_00]: Bobby Cannabale and Andrew Scott, this is a good mixture of different voices, different energies in it as Ethan Hawke has taken center stage, you know, and you know, I don't know how you feel about him, man, but he has really become a great actor like I always thought Ethan was good, of course, right in as we mentioned dead poets society, but like,
[SPEAKER_00]: reality bites, these other films, but at times for me, he radiated a bit of pretentiousness about himself and it didn't make me gravitate to his work, but I think since training day, he's really kind of become stronger and stronger with interesting efforts.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, reformed was one recently, a few years ago, he got nothing, got nominated for, and then blue moon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like,
[SPEAKER_00]: He's becoming this really strong artist and finding even more power as you get older as an actor as well and seeing him in the back and forth that they have in this film and what they, you know, the disappointments throughout this day is really, as you said, Steve, some settling thing when you look at him, you've pursued art yourself and not found the full-on success that you were hoping for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what that leads to, and then the pressure is of it, if you even found a little bit of success, which is the hard, which runs in hard did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the success leaves without you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes on that Oscar Hammerstein guy, and it's just, you know, and it was so like, yeah, I let, let's just say, I feel it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you and I have both known people occasionally that went farther than we did, and there's always sort of,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to figure out what my next one is, I don't mind it as long as they don't change who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have seen people I know become more successful and all of a sudden they become different people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're much, they become Hollywoody.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when they become Hollywoody, that's pretty much the end of my desire to
[SPEAKER_00]: connect with them as strongly as I did before, because there's a bit of a facade that happens that are associated with 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and there's a thing like there's no question that Rogers is one of the great geniuses of the music theater that's 100% true you and I and I'm not naming any names I'm not don't even know if we agree on them there's sometimes people where they had lots of success Then we did not feel that they deserved it on some of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know like like that guy really that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, all right
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but that's the salietti, that's the salietti in all of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're like, what, this person?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, except, well, and this is the thing, is that with Salieri, it's Mozart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Salieri knows why it's Mozart, if you did an Amadeus, except it was just as obnoxious of personality as Amadeus.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not actually that talented, you know, because we've seen that many, many, many, many times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm to be debating about my next one forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to go back to this category because we haven't been there in a while of the non-professional of the just saying that art is important in your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the movie I'm picking is dirty dancing.
[SPEAKER_01]: is like there's no question that there's no question that she's ever going to be a professional dancer that is not what the movie is about the movie isn't even about doing a professional performance like we hope that we get the lift like that's it like can we accomplish it but what it really is is using art and dance as a metaphor for coming of age as a metaphor of maturing as a metaphor for exploring things across the tracks doing things that are more dangerous
[SPEAKER_01]: being put in the corner.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't put nobody puts baby in the corner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that kind of a movie, it's because the thing is is most of us are not going to be Mozart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of us are not going to be Ray Charles or any of these other great artists.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like most, but art can live in your life in a way that is transformative and important and experiential.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think dirty dancing is a perfect example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great point you bring up, Steve, because the dancing itself symbolizes something to her family and her father and the current state of existence that they're in at that time, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But for her, it represents, as I've said before, art is freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Art is rebellion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Art is
[SPEAKER_00]: where you don't want to, or can inspire you to not just accept your state or your condition in life, but to want more, to explore more, to let that inner voice of yours come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you're born with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're born with a desire for art, whether it's immediate or latent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're born with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not everyone has it, just like not everyone has mental health issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some people are born with it and some people aren't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm going to develop it later, that's certainly possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are people who go through life who never have one mental health issue at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are people who go through life who don't really feel the proclivity of desire to go create art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're seeing it in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, a small film like dirty dancing.
[SPEAKER_00]: seeing what she sees art symbolized for her and why she desires to push against all these norms and all these expectations because she wants to use art to essentially express her voice, express her independence, her freedom, her power, and it's fantastic to watch that through the film.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, absolutely agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: What a great choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And didn't even think about it for this list, but that's such a smart choice when you look at it for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I we got to go we haven't done a comedy we got to go to this a spinal tap come on I mean that is a film cover we covered on the show with such a such a great time talking about that film and of course we profiled Rob Riner recently that a season of Rob Riner in his film so the exploration of art in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: in that film is just a, it's deceptive because you're so caught up in all the funny moments in the weird moments and the characters and all that stuff, but they are legitimately a band who thinks that they are creating great music and want to create great music and driven to create great music and they're dealing with all the egos and the issues that they have within the band and outside the band.
[SPEAKER_00]: as they try to create that music.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they are driven by this northern star, no matter how many drummers die, no matter how much it's stone hinge doesn't come in light, it doesn't come life size, like no matter how much that happens to them, they are still determined to create the music and it's that drive that I think is so essential to making that film a success beyond the comedy, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to clarify, are you saying that you're that big bottom stone hinge and sex train are not great music?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's great music, I'm just saying they think it's great music and I love that they're driven to create this kind of stuff because they're kind of like the forgotten hairband of the hairband time, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's so great about it and I've heard many rock musicians talk about this is yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: it might be a ridiculous comedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is accurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of the time you're actually not working with Mozart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are like scrambling to make a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is just as ridiculous and stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frequently you're listening to people make as dumb requests as Nigel does.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like you just like that is that is the reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what makes, well, and this is the thing is like what part of what makes final taps so great is that they get it right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's what so is that that's what makes it so darn funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, agree 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we do what I want to just mention a thing which is which is we don't it's been a long time on but there have actually been four versions of a star is born.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, and in the first version it's two actors in the second version it's two musical theater actors and then both the barbistris and Chris Christofferson and the Lady Gaga Bradley Cooper are country musicians and pop singer.
[SPEAKER_01]: But all of them, actually, I think all four are good movies in different ways and all four of them are exploring becoming a great artist, artistic jealousy, the moment that you're on the upswing, the moment that you're on the downswing, I think all four of them really are about in some way the journey of an artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and what it what
[SPEAKER_00]: the art form and is humbled to buy the fact that they could actually achieve the success that they achieve.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other one is hit the ceiling and doesn't see that there's more, doesn't see that they can create more art or can grab that success that they had before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's another element of art that I think is highlighting here Steve as well is like how you deal with it when you've hit like the best you're ever going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'd love to talk about one hit wonders, but how many of us really explore the biography of these people who kept trying to make albums and kept trying to capture that success again and never found it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, things have changed now.
[SPEAKER_00]: People who are one hit wonders come back in 30 years and they're doing cruises and all this kind of stuff that performed me, they're making money.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: You're known for that song.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that life like where you've hit the limits of your success?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what it's like to have your name chanted in an auditorium.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then less people show up, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We just had right now they're calling it the blue dot effect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is something like the blue dot theory, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what it essentially implies is that when an artist starts to cancel their tours and their shows, it's because when they look at the ticket sold,
[SPEAKER_00]: and that's how that's a thing that's becoming a term now to describe what happens when artists cancel their tours or their shows, which is a music headstall just did that, a key for subtle and just did that recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're seeing that less and less people are even coming out to see the art that their report.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how does that feel for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that journey like?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: gets explored through the Bradley Cooper and Chris Christophe, some characters so well in those two versions.
[SPEAKER_00]: James Mason, I think a little more dramatically in James Mason's case because it's also about him being older than her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's another element of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's as much of an element with Chris Christophe's and her Cooper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more about having lost the start of him they once had.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so what it leads to in Cooper is
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... at that depiction is i think the most but one said yeah brought out it's really brutal well it's funny and again this is why i keep seen all these themes that go back and forth because the the the the the the moment of your past you know like we have the the movies that are about the coming up like you are arriving you are the young hungry one and then we have the movies about the oh your past your peak and that blue that's blue moon
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's all the stars born movies and there was another one we just talked about to Oh Birdman Birdman is that too is like you had all the people cheering for you and now all those people have gone away and you and this is the thing and and I think there's such a Because start them and massive success is so corrupting and so addictive
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's so funny, because we're, as we mentioned, we're prepping devil wears product.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a moment in it where Maryl Streep's character Miranda Priestley says, well, everybody wants this life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I look at her life and I go, no, I really don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I thought I did when I was young and those stars coming up are going like I just want the brass ring.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to get that and the vet there's only maybe four people in in movie history that have held on to the brass ring for more than a decade, you know Tom Cruise being one, but most people it's only going to be a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're going to go back to being like, hopefully a working actor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like this idea of what you should you all they're preparing for, all their work is to get the press ring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is to have that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that moment is gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's brutal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look no farther than Nicole Kidman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nicole Kidman, it was at the top of the game for a few years there in the 90s and 2000s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, she's popping up and doing ensemble work or spot work and or leading TV series on prime video, Nicole Kip.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the thing is like, how do you navigate it when you're no longer the flavor of the month of the week?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rarity, as you said, is time cruise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Directors wise, Steven Spielberg, or Corsair Saisy, those are the rarities that have multiple decades,
[SPEAKER_00]: film or Billy Wilder, multiple decades of staying around and being able to reinvent themselves and capture the energy of the time and do something that people want to come see.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, you're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough situation for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, maybe that's a good place to wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it one more.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, I have one more that's very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, but for two, but very, very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Extremely, the most important movie I mentioned today, yes, is the assistance written and directed by Steve Morris, they film about it in movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is actually another reason why I bring it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I rarely plug my own work.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably a...
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've mentioned to you about the assistance all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean you're rarely plagiarized?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I've plugged the assistance in a couple of years on the cinephiles.
[SPEAKER_01]: you go back and check.
[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned the assistance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might mention it, but I've mentioned it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Plugging it, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, because now I am actually plugging it because it is for the first time ever available for free on TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is now on to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyone who hasn't seen it, it's my film starring Joe Montana, Jane Seymour and Stacy Keech in a Hollywood paper movie about trying to get a movie made.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it fits the category and it just became available a few weeks ago on to be and so I need did need to plug it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the, do I have the thing up?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I have the thing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally plug it to me is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys should download to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great app.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many great films on, on to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you can have the assistance to the list of films that are on to me for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's absolutely great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a film that Steve assumes 100% right profiles what it's like making a film and through his own experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost met we just say that it's almost meta because you were making because of the stuff you went through to make your film about a film that's making a film.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think there's anything I would say is meta in the movie, but my experience of making it is 100% meta.
[SPEAKER_01]: like being having to manipulate and run around and scramble and losing locations and losing actors and then having to make things happen all the time, 100% meta.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, as I mentioned, Steve has mentioned these systems many times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you maybe didn't have access to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you can watch it on TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great plug, brother, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, let's get some of these questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we're getting close to the hour and a half mark, where we wrap up usually our live show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Carlton Rutter says London calling was our Carlton, which films that passed the test of time best capture the emotional grind inspiration and chaotic beauty of the artistic process.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a bunch of the ones that we've mentioned, all that jazz, certainly, the, the Requiem, the Requiem moment in, yes, on the day as 100% the, I mean, there, there, there's so many of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm kind of, I'm going to look at my list because I feel like, like, things that we haven't mentioned, like, almost famous is one that certainly captures that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to throw eight and a half and we didn't even mention which is probably the top film to talk about what it comes about to art and what a director goes through on his journey when he's having essentially not writers block creative block overall and the madness of it all that he experiences the both fantastic one realistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: as he navigates this frustrating process of art that doesn't necessarily lead to a great film.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think eight and a half is the one that we haven't mentioned that really is a film that has stood the test of time and many current recent and older filmmakers have spoken about how much
[SPEAKER_00]: is a window into what the process is like for a director, you know, I don't know if you what you thought's on on eight and a half Steve.
[SPEAKER_01]: So but yeah, eight and a half is a weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen it since film school.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's all five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember watching in film school going
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I get this mood, like I didn't, I didn't vibe with it well and maybe I should revisit, because I haven't seen a lot of, all sorts of fascinating things visually interesting, but I go like, okay, I don't know how do I feel about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know one of our good friends, Alaina is a massive fan of eight and a half and I wonder if we would ever be able to convince her to be a guest on our show if we ever tackle that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Darren says 19 and Darren says just want to send some support from my favorite show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Darren.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, Darren.
[SPEAKER_00]: Much love to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doug, we got a Steve specific question from Doug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: For you, how much harder or easier do you think it would be to direct yourself in your own movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so amazed how Eastwood is able to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, not just Eastwood, Brana.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many Bob of Streisand's done it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a great actor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm my opinion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an okay actor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a capable of acting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, and I did direct myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in the speaking of the assistance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as distance I have two lines, maybe one line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And fortunately, I had Karen my ex.
[SPEAKER_01]: off-camera directing me because my first take was shitty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only was my first take shitty, but I actually did the wrong beatwork.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew what I wrote the line and I knew what I wanted that character to do and then I ended up when they said action.
[SPEAKER_01]: doing something else and Aaron walked up to me and said, you know, this really should be about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, of course, it should be about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I meant to that's what I meant to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, like, you know, I don't think I would be that good about directing myself except, I mean, that's what we know when I'm editing and we're doing the podcast together.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, it's like, I don't have a problem directing my voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, because I, like I said, I, as an instrument for a director to work with, I don't think as an actor, I am that great in instrument.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do some stock and act, but it's not, you know, so like my issues with me directing myself are not my issues with me as a director.
[SPEAKER_01]: My issues with me would be me as an actor where who I don't think he's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
[SPEAKER_00]: I hear you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think I'm only okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're at a much higher level than I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be interesting to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I hate watching myself on, listen, I know Dick Doug didn't ask me the question, but like see myself on screen was the end of me wanting to do it so I think it would be an interesting thing to tackle directing myself in something I think what you have to have as you mentioned Steve so well with Karen you have to have someone you trust is on set.
[SPEAKER_00]: who essentially watches your performance and gives you the outside perspective of what if it's working or not, and it's an essential person to have on Zen for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... this water says please do both all about even sunset boulevard or i would love to do sunset boulevard and i suppose all about even as well sure sure i i i like i haven't see i haven't seen sunset boulevard in a while my memory is i like all about even more but yes it's like if the cinephiles can go on forever yes i would love to do both those films
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if, if, uh, verse 23 or four, the Cinephos live on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love your podcast, and I'm so happy to see you both.
[SPEAKER_00]: 1987's throw up from the train is my favorite film about writer's block and the power of perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you something?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-oh, Steve, have you seen this movie?
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me, not only have I seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, it has the greatest line about writer's block.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've ever seen an any movie ever, which is that Billy Crystal, it's Billy Crystal and Danny Divido.
[SPEAKER_01]: Billy Crystal is a writer who's a writing teacher, and he has writer's block.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his girlfriend wants to have sex with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, I have writer's block.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, everywhere?
[SPEAKER_01]: sums up so much about how writer's block feels because yeah everywhere that is what writer's block feels like and with so there's there's so much good stuff about writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean like there's that like because Danny DeVito's writing a story and it's like a guy with a hat kills the other guy with the hat.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the that's what's that's the writing in the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is a writing teacher is trying to
[SPEAKER_01]: help people to write and this one guy is writing erotic fiction about the Laker girls I think that's a coffee cable book and there's like someone on a submarine and the I could so remember that I haven't seen this movie in 25 years and I can remember this writing class the woman who talking about the submarine goes her writing is like the man picked up the thing and spoken to the thing to the other guy who was who was running the other thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: because she knows nothing about submarines or anything to go on, which is this is what teaching writing is like.
[SPEAKER_01]: So 100% agree with this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great movement about writer's plot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Volkets is a wish I had to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't, isn't, to be an app, isn't to be available everywhere?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not available anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I'm sure it isn't because the right, the rights for movies,
[SPEAKER_01]: are only sold regionally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all these, that's what that's why your Netflix account in Europe doesn't have access to the same movies as the US or China or anywhere else because it's all about the rights to the films.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are rights as we ever get a hunter as Thompson Biopic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's fear in loading.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's probably as close as we get, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a weird dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, here's my very quick story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair and loading.
[SPEAKER_01]: First time I went to see it, crowded theater.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a bit high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely hilarious.
[SPEAKER_01]: The theater was just going nuts for this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I watched it a second time with someone who was not interested in drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just me and this other person when I worked on the DVD.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, I'm sure you've had this, where you watch a movie with a different group of people and the movie is totally different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then that movie was depressing and sad and just kind of disgusting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't Hunter is one of the strangest men.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant writer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really writer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy bizarre.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be an incredible biopic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what story you tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: The crazy shit he's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Steve, why don't you answer this film while I use the restroom real quick?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause we've hit the limit where I have to use the restroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is from KJ 7457, he says.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your favorite Woody Allen film about artistry?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can make an argument that all his films are about art.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a great point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think like bolts over Broadway is the one that comes to mind first, because particularly because it's a central question of what is more important the artist or the art.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it opens up with that scene, which I think Rob Reiner is in.
[SPEAKER_01]: where they're debating whether or no there's a burning building you have the last fully of Shakespeare or a person which do save out of the burning building and really the movies all about exploring that but but I 100% agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean purple rose of Cairo and its ways about art Broadway Danny Rose in his ways about art like there an art an artist run throughout their books so there's been night in Paris where it's about writers there's yeah there's a whole bunch where it really
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the thing, which we just did recently, Annie Hall, it's not, I would say obviously it's the main character is a stand up comedian and so it's about art and that sense and we see some of the stand up comedy, but because so much of that movie this is is is book ended.
[SPEAKER_01]: by these jokes and the importance of humor and the way of looking at the world is the entire movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's a perfect example of how art informs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, he's in the art world.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much about what he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's in art world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see we got another question here from Justin Toner, who says, hi guys, I really enjoyed this discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of great examples given tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, thank you so much, Justin.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can hear the sounds of the outlaw.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an old man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I drink.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to drink a lot of stuff and I have to use a restaurant sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: 90 minutes is pretty much my limit nowadays.
[SPEAKER_00]: I grew with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think bullets over Broadway is my favorite 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I do think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, although it was not well received, the one where he's blind trying to direct the movie, Hollywood, something I came up with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Harry, uh, deconstructing Harry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what it is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, no, that's not it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, it's probably with something I can't remember what it's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I haven't seen it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that with, um, Well, you've taken it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tailioni is his, uh, is like his assistant who is like, form his former girlfriend who is like helping him,
[SPEAKER_00]: God, I can't remember the name of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did he write it, even?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hollywood ending, there it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hollywood, it's not a great film, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think having him be blind as a director, making a movie, there's an incredible commentary being made about what it's like to be a director of what you have to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you remove your eyes, how can in their concentrate trying to hide that he's blind, I think it's a great exploration of.
[SPEAKER_00]: making movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, thank you, Justin, for a very cool comment there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I thought of deconstructing Henry or Harry, which everyone it is, began with the Robin Williams subplot is there on a movie setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see everything out of focus.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I thought about that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's great as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: look, not all of his movies are great clearly, but there are some, there are always at least something funny or a memorable scene in every one of his movies, whether they're good or not, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's wrap it up there, Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've gone on for 90 minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you all so much for hanging out with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: As Steve said at the beginning of this conversation, this could be a 10 part 12 part conversation, 12 part series.
[SPEAKER_00]: about art in movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could have gone a million different directions, but this is the directions we chose to go in with this particular conversation, but we'd love to hear what you all think about some of the movies we brought up with you, what you all think about, what you all suggest some movies that are affect you that you like, that are about the process of art creating art, the exploration of all of that, and artists as well, let us know in the comment section below or DM us or tweet at us as well, wherever you, wherever you
[SPEAKER_00]: how you follow us on social media, or have you listen to us, and we hope you enjoyed the discussion, and we hope you we inspired you to look at some films, certainly Steven's probably looking at a couple of films that I've never seen before, so I will have to take a look at that, and Steve, what do we have to tell these wonderful people, and anything else you want to say to wrap up our conversation, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I have to put topsy-turvy in my queue.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I got out of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, what was the, Adrian?
[SPEAKER_01]: And what was the, the writer one that you said?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it started with a P with, um, anyway, doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_02]: With who?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, Patterson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, with Adder's Library.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Adam Driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely add that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to support the show, you can do it at patreon.com slash the center files.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't liked and subscribed on a YouTube channel, we would love to have you do that or subscribe to the podcast feed on any of your podcast places and you can leave reviews.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can leave comments on Spotify here on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to reach me, it's SR Morris on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: SR Morris won on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow me at the road says on all my social media as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please remember to subscribe to our channel here.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't subscribed yet, but also you can subscribe to my YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash John Rooka says where I do all kinds of things, talking about a film and entertainment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got the geek buddy's hot mic, the spill, the tequila show, my review is my reactions to Jedi Way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also crazy stuff like watching the Ronda Rows Eugene Acronophyte, which I did in the live watch long of last night, all my channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are things you get on my channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So please subscribe if you feel like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you all so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love you, Madly, and we'll talk to you next time with another brand new episode here of the cinephiles live take care until then.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you, everybody.