[SPEAKER_00]: This is the Jockel Underground podcast number 214.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sitting here with Echo Charles.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have questions from the field and we have some answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have some recommendations at a minimum.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have some courses of actions.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can pursue to get you through the maze of life that Echo Lex had talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it, Bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, first question.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, I carry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also a brand-bought indigestion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully, I'd never found myself in a physical altercation on the street as an adult.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do wonder if having a gun while getting into a fighting scenario would be a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if the perp grabs it or it falls out or something while we're tied up?
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel very confident in my duty to in the street, sometimes I feel like if I had to use the duty to while caring, the gun would be a liability.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts on this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, first thought is don't get any street fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second thought is have a good retention holster, right, that you have worked with and that keeps your weapon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not, you know, quote unquote falling out or something, would you in a fight?
[SPEAKER_00]: Practice and drill and spar with your retention holster and normal clothes, so you see what the situation is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get into street fights, practice de-escalation, avoid problematic areas, walk-a-waves, some reason, don't get into street fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if the perp grabs it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if the perp has a knife?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know then what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if the perp has a gun?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's kind of a weird what if you're giving a worst case scenario to your own self, but not a worst case to the world, not a worst case scenario to the rest of the entire world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, right, a train, so that you're ready, and then don't get any street fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you can see that the trend here is don't get any street fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially when you're carrying, why are you getting into a street fight when you're carrying?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, you know, again, somebody's got a grab hold of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: otherwise just run away from them and if they have a gun kill them like if somebody pulls a gun on you right you got to kill them someone pulls a knife on you got to kill them if they're just like saying hey they push you cool walk away from them that's it man train with it and I think you also this kind of fear of the unknown go and put your you know put your clothes on put your street
[SPEAKER_00]: and then go and train with it and see what it's like and also make sure you can sell access it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to be able to like get into a ground into a ground-fighting situation, where now you're getting beat, what you shouldn't do if you're a ground-bowl engineer, but if you are, and obviously, you don't know how to get to your weapon, or you're in a grappling situation, all of a sudden, guy pulls out a knife and you can't get in a how to get to your weapon, you haven't rehearsed before, you haven't trained it before.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do some training so that you're ready for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it like to reach inside your waistband?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it like to wear whatever type of carry you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it like to get that butt pack open?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what, what is it, what have you, you've got the appendix carry?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's it like to get in there?
[SPEAKER_00]: So figure that out and train with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you should be good to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I got.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: They deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like more of a comprehensive approach to everything Rather than hey, should you have your gun or should you not have your gun if you're getting into a fight with somebody kind of a thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of like hey, be more than that and be like wait just like I said a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you getting into fights?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying when you don't have to
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it does seem more cut in dry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I know a guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you know him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a black belt and he We were use up my house.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's up my house.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking whatever and he has, you know, you know, you have a knife like a not a weapon knife
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, for whatever reason we talked about kind of a similar kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, you know, sometimes I feel like I should just chuck this knife like if you were to get into a fight with somebody or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should feel like I should just chuck this knife over the over the fence before I get into it because it's like what I'm going to do like stab them, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm assuming that this imaginary scenario we're talking about the other person does not have a weapon there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like I'm not like I'm going to stab them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like now he just run the risk of him get grabbing it at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a better argument than the gun one, but also if someone pulls a knife on you and but and you go cool, I have a knife too.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is still a really shitty situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're getting into a power slap scenario where we're like you're getting cut.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when you do power slap, you're getting slapped in the face hard and getting
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go, oh, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a knife too.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is bad bad bad situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bad situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we're carrying a gun.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not carrying a knife.
[SPEAKER_00]: primary.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not our primary weapon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, you get a backup or you get a boterable situation and you have to pull your knife out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But damn, dude, this is a rough.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a rough one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my son is nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'd play these, you know, we have these big Sharpie pens, you know, the markers, the big ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, he will knife fight with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you'd be saying he's nine, but he's still slicing me up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm slicing my worst cause of course I'm just way more skilled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'm comparing to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But nonetheless, I'm getting sliced up on my arms or whatever and then if you do, if you just do the math, like what if, and sometimes we look at little cuts right is like superficial cuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was none of no, if you have a knife or for real knife and you're going to for real fight, that's going to cut deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember, like I'm looking at my arms and like,
[SPEAKER_01]: If this cut deep, I couldn't use my cut my tendons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're saying, especially in an adult.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's whole training protocol with knives, which you are not, you know, you're not trying to do the stab to the heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just trying to cut their arms, cut what's exposed, cut their arms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're bleeding out, none of the less.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you get, you get, you get to our degree or a vein.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're bleeding out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's seen that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I think it was an Australia with a dude just pulled out a knife stab at the guy in the neck.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just falls down.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's dead in a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's one of the game over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when someone pulls out a knife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, knife fights, not knife fights.
[SPEAKER_00]: knife fights is not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, uh, in Gjitsu, like the 50-50 position.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you pull out a knife and I pull out a knife, it's yeah, it's just bad you're getting you're getting you're getting cut Yeah, you're getting cut So Avoid shoot them Yeah, that that that that comforts of a purse with a gun isn't that's That's fine and train and train for it and nowhere it is, you know like you've got to you got to get in the game Yeah, just don't be carrying
[SPEAKER_00]: without having worked through these situations.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a good move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Train.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look in the beginning, you'll probably do it for spend three days with a couple of your buddies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And spend three days, two or three hours a day with your gear on, with your street clothes on, with your jeans, with your holster, get your holster all fit, good, get it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where you want it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where you think you want it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Try it out, adjust it, try it out, adjust it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like once a month, go go through those drills and get to make sure you're good to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for that familiarity, film familiarity, let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is a hypothetical question, Chaco.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'm not going to put your use specifically, but let's say a brown belt person versus a guy for whatever reason they have to fight each other versus a guy with the gun, but the gun, the guy with the gun,
[SPEAKER_01]: really doesn't want it uses gun.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to kill the guy, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just fighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think the brown belt guy could get to the gun?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the guy doesn't want to shoot him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of what I mean, it seems like easy question, but that's kind of what I'm saying where a guy, okay, what if they're both brown belt?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the gun's a liability.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he didn't really want to use it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because at a certain point He's gonna want to use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, again, so guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't understand it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for me to comprehend that he doesn't want to use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that even mean because okay So I'm trying to recreate the baby a scenario that maybe that this guy's worried about so like
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if it's a you're carrying right and you get into a fight with somebody and let's say the guy you're fighting is kind of a badass guy like equally to you know You can't just be like hey, I'm losing this fight kind of so I'm gonna shoot them, you know, you can't really do that
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe sometimes you can't apparently know unless that guy now is going to kill me right right so we get into a fist fight and he he whatever knocks me out gets the mount and punches me in the head three times and stands up and goes don't ever mess with me again and starts walking away yes I can't shoot that just lost yeah yeah but but if he's punching me punching me punching me
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