WEBVTT 00:03.119 --> 00:08.050 [SPEAKER_03]: This show is brought to you by The Makeery, the podcast network for Makeers. 00:17.868 --> 00:18.349 [SPEAKER_03]: You ready? 00:18.710 --> 00:19.011 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 00:19.432 --> 00:21.276 [SPEAKER_03]: Guys, Leah's back. 00:21.336 --> 00:22.278 [SPEAKER_03]: Leary Pots here. 00:22.438 --> 00:24.623 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the full-bass podcast ladies and germs. 00:24.964 --> 00:27.991 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget about it, I'm Jeff Fader and we're gonna have some fun before we get to it. 00:28.272 --> 00:29.956 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see here on a business first thing's first. 00:29.976 --> 00:31.519 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to thank my friends at Broadway fireworks. 00:32.040 --> 00:33.544 [SPEAKER_03]: Makers of the two by 72 grinders. 00:33.564 --> 00:34.967 [SPEAKER_03]: This grinder is for you. 00:35.087 --> 00:36.771 [SPEAKER_03]: And no matter what you're doing, 00:36.751 --> 00:38.053 [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to get you squared away. 00:38.293 --> 00:41.077 [SPEAKER_03]: I cannot live without my broad back ironworks. 00:41.217 --> 00:44.822 [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't have to be a knife maker, sculptor, metal worker, it's really great. 00:44.902 --> 00:49.368 [SPEAKER_03]: The customer service is fantastic and the attachments and everything else like that is amazing too. 00:49.409 --> 00:56.278 [SPEAKER_03]: So definitely get yourself involved with broad back ironworks and go to broadbackironworks.com, put in the promo code knife, talk 10% for 10% off everything. 00:56.258 --> 00:57.719 [SPEAKER_03]: Next, my friends, it even heats. 00:57.980 --> 01:00.061 [SPEAKER_03]: Manufacturer, the finest heat treat ovens available. 01:00.081 --> 01:02.704 [SPEAKER_03]: To find your next oven, go to evenheet-kill.com. 01:03.485 --> 01:07.308 [SPEAKER_03]: I have been using my even heats for years, and I've never had a problem. 01:07.348 --> 01:09.550 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a couple little things I had to get repaired. 01:09.610 --> 01:11.412 [SPEAKER_03]: I called them up, and they walked me through. 01:11.432 --> 01:12.613 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the easiest thing in the world. 01:13.073 --> 01:21.701 [SPEAKER_03]: If you are using really nice steels, stainless steels, your heat treating stuff, bake or forge stuff, any of that stuff, you really need specific temperatures, and even heat's going to get you there. 01:21.721 --> 01:26.265 [SPEAKER_03]: So go to evenheet-kill.com and check it out. 01:26.245 --> 01:32.452 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, nearer time knife supply for all your knife making needs, belts, abrasive steels, kills, forces, press, heat treating, and thems all that stuff. 01:33.072 --> 01:37.017 [SPEAKER_03]: They're also going to be the international distributor for the Damasteel Invitationals. 01:37.037 --> 01:41.602 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you want to get your, your again, Nanger, your again, Munger, something like that. 01:42.142 --> 01:47.768 [SPEAKER_03]: You got to go to, uh, nearer time knife supply and get involved with the knife talk, uh, Damasteel DCI event. 01:48.309 --> 01:51.773 [SPEAKER_03]: So international buyers get it from nearer time knife supply for your United States. 01:51.793 --> 01:52.894 [SPEAKER_03]: You go to true grit. 01:52.874 --> 01:55.258 [SPEAKER_03]: But many thanks to Lawrence. 01:55.298 --> 01:55.959 [SPEAKER_03]: They're amazing. 01:56.019 --> 01:56.761 [SPEAKER_03]: He's incredible. 01:56.821 --> 02:02.390 [SPEAKER_03]: He's very involved with the knife and the community and he will get you squared away Next to my friends at Baker forge. 02:02.450 --> 02:06.858 [SPEAKER_03]: I just got a little I got a grip a Baker forge stuff What do I got here? 02:07.159 --> 02:17.937 [SPEAKER_03]: I got I got some razor wire go my I got some Infernal go my hypnotic copper my elite copper my this stuff is a 02:17.917 --> 02:18.558 [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing. 02:18.578 --> 02:24.565 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to do some, I'm going to use some knives in my man, Tom Rabotner over quarantine kitchen knives, and I'm using Baker Forge. 02:24.785 --> 02:25.486 [SPEAKER_03]: And you got to get that. 02:25.566 --> 02:26.087 [SPEAKER_03]: You got to get it. 02:26.147 --> 02:27.689 [SPEAKER_03]: You got to get it from BakerForge.com. 02:27.709 --> 02:29.991 [SPEAKER_03]: You put in the promo code full blasting at 10% off everything. 02:30.452 --> 02:31.613 [SPEAKER_03]: The teacher had to use it. 02:31.633 --> 02:33.656 [SPEAKER_03]: They show you how to hold your hand the whole way. 02:33.696 --> 02:35.378 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about that. 02:35.658 --> 02:36.579 [SPEAKER_03]: You can grind it. 02:36.639 --> 02:39.462 [SPEAKER_03]: You can, you can add shit, user, gator piss. 02:39.502 --> 02:41.445 [SPEAKER_03]: That's there's proprietary etchenda. 02:41.485 --> 02:44.228 [SPEAKER_03]: There's three different kinds of gator piss, OG. 02:44.208 --> 03:02.031 [SPEAKER_03]: Gaterpist Max and Gaterpist have you for your stainless for your regular stuff and you can get all that stuff at a Bakerforge And you can put in the promo code full-blast sketch of December so off or you can get the Gaterpist at my friends at Texas Ferry Supply Texas Ferry Supply that's where I get my Rhino at ladies and germs 03:02.011 --> 03:09.219 [SPEAKER_03]: TexasVarious Supply.com has all that stuff and the gator piss and all that stuff in the run-in for Fox 8. 03:09.659 --> 03:14.104 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you go to TexasVarious Supply.com, put in the room, we'll go to Night Talk 10, you get 10% off everything. 03:14.704 --> 03:19.930 [SPEAKER_03]: So many thanks to my co-ay hook me up, where I'm ready, I'm so excited to use this stuff. 03:19.950 --> 03:29.520 [SPEAKER_03]: I know it's going to turn out great because Baker Forges is a great job, and thank you TexasVarious Supply for supporting them too, and us. 03:30.715 --> 03:35.501 [SPEAKER_03]: I just got a, I have such a problem with C.A. 03:35.521 --> 03:37.804 [SPEAKER_03]: Glue, and I finally found the C.A. 03:37.824 --> 03:38.685 [SPEAKER_03]: Glue, you know C.A. 03:38.705 --> 03:38.945 [SPEAKER_03]: Glue. 03:39.326 --> 03:40.427 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like crazy glue. 03:40.587 --> 03:43.591 [SPEAKER_03]: I found the best one, and it's from Total Boat, and they sent me the medium. 03:44.472 --> 03:47.836 [SPEAKER_03]: I get so much goddamn C.A. 03:47.856 --> 03:49.358 [SPEAKER_03]: Glue from Total Boat, it's insane. 03:49.498 --> 03:51.000 [SPEAKER_03]: And I only use their C.A. 03:51.020 --> 03:55.646 [SPEAKER_03]: Glue, and I only use their high performance, super epoxy, and I love everything about Total Boat. 03:55.686 --> 04:00.672 [SPEAKER_03]: I know that I'm going to be at Total Boat at Maker Camp, and we're 04:00.652 --> 04:15.984 [SPEAKER_03]: With total boat maker camp, but I love these guys at total boat and if you go to the link total boats.com slash full blasts, you're going to get immediate link and some discounts and that's going to give me street cred too. 04:16.084 --> 04:21.816 [SPEAKER_03]: However, it doesn't seem like a new anymore street cred and Kirsten sending me all sorts of anybody needs something she says it's fantastic 04:21.796 --> 04:23.538 [SPEAKER_03]: Loving total boat. 04:24.019 --> 04:30.187 [SPEAKER_03]: It's good enough for Keith Dees and Derek from Maldon, Keith Johnson, Keith Mitchell and that Scoundrel Jimmy Dress is good enough for you. 04:30.208 --> 04:32.130 [SPEAKER_03]: Next to my friends at G.L. 04:32.170 --> 04:33.712 [SPEAKER_03]: HansonSons is G.L. 04:33.732 --> 04:41.223 [SPEAKER_03]: That underscore HansonSons, makers of G-Carta, which is unique composite natural fabrics and fabrics mixed with epoxy and repression and heat. 04:41.303 --> 04:42.404 [SPEAKER_03]: I love their stuff. 04:42.444 --> 04:45.188 [SPEAKER_03]: I go to G-Carta Big Cartel.com to get it. 04:45.168 --> 04:46.891 [SPEAKER_03]: Get the trout patterns, my man. 04:46.911 --> 04:49.094 [SPEAKER_03]: Jesse Killian's killing it with the trout patterns. 04:49.174 --> 04:57.167 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of people using the G10, the G-Carta, and you should too get the fuzz and the color and the hoopla, I get that razzle dazzle in your life. 04:57.267 --> 04:58.068 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not playing. 04:58.489 --> 04:59.451 [SPEAKER_03]: You guys play too much. 05:00.072 --> 05:01.734 [SPEAKER_03]: Get yourself some of that electric fuzz. 05:01.754 --> 05:02.435 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what I'm saying? 05:02.455 --> 05:03.978 [SPEAKER_03]: And hoopla, it's great. 05:04.138 --> 05:06.822 [SPEAKER_03]: And you've got to go to G-Carta Big Cartel.com. 05:06.922 --> 05:10.508 [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's links in this show notes of where everything is. 05:11.049 --> 05:13.032 [SPEAKER_03]: And definitely follow them on Instagram. 05:13.012 --> 05:17.822 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, many thanks to Greg, he's unbelievable and I love their products. 05:18.183 --> 05:29.267 [SPEAKER_03]: I would also think my friends at Total Tour Mac, celebrating 50 years of being in business with a black TA sharpening system plus plus plus if you're sharpening knives, this is the machine for you don't ask me what I think about it. 05:29.287 --> 05:33.636 [SPEAKER_03]: I've been using the Tour Mac's now for years and I only sharpened on the Tour Mac's I love them. 05:33.616 --> 05:43.485 [SPEAKER_03]: I just got off the phone with my man Carl Friends, he's been on the podcast, he works for a total of Tormek and he will be Tormek will be at Maker Camp and I probably can do a demo of them. 05:43.545 --> 05:52.973 [SPEAKER_03]: And the documentaries are going to probably come out very soon and hopefully I heard I heard there, it's almost ready to go, so I'm going to be, you know, I won't be able to shut up about that. 05:53.574 --> 05:57.397 [SPEAKER_03]: But Tormek's the man, they make great stuff and I'm a huge fan. 05:57.457 --> 06:01.581 [SPEAKER_03]: So Tormek underscore sharpeningtormek.com, sharpening knives, stop playing. 06:01.561 --> 06:07.370 [SPEAKER_03]: I know, if you're not struggling, you think, oh god, all this stuff sounds so great, but I just don't know if I need it all. 06:07.890 --> 06:13.298 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you wanted to get class, you got to go to Nordic Edge, Nordic Under Score Edge, on Instagram, NordicEdge.com.au. 06:14.200 --> 06:16.603 [SPEAKER_03]: They teach great classes. 06:16.683 --> 06:20.469 [SPEAKER_03]: Blacksmithing, bladesmithing, knife-making, spoon carving, leatherworking, all that stuff. 06:20.850 --> 06:22.532 [SPEAKER_03]: And they also supplies you. 06:22.692 --> 06:26.418 [SPEAKER_03]: They have the Rhino, they got the good Rhino, they don't want to get the counter. 06:26.438 --> 06:29.863 [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently, there was counterfeit Rhino 06:29.843 --> 06:31.406 [SPEAKER_03]: in Australia. 06:31.887 --> 06:37.798 [SPEAKER_03]: In some of these flee bag, Australian dealers were giving you the bullshit. 06:38.279 --> 06:40.043 [SPEAKER_03]: And the Nordic Aging gonna do that. 06:40.083 --> 06:45.834 [SPEAKER_03]: Nordic Aging gonna take it carry it because they got like sausage men forged and Bjorn and Mertansus involved. 06:46.675 --> 06:51.284 [SPEAKER_03]: So I mean they're not gonna give you the Oki Vdoki Finoki right away. 06:51.304 --> 06:52.847 [SPEAKER_03]: They're gonna give you the real stuff. 06:52.827 --> 07:02.095 [SPEAKER_03]: And you go to go to nordicedge.com.au or Nordic underscore edge on Instagram and you can take some classes and get your get yourself some of the stuff that they're selling. 07:02.115 --> 07:04.618 [SPEAKER_03]: So Nordic edge, if you're Australian, don't have your United States. 07:05.338 --> 07:08.001 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't be too, you know, unless you're planning going over there, careful. 07:08.901 --> 07:11.224 [SPEAKER_03]: Many thanks to Bjorn and the guys I love what they're doing. 07:11.804 --> 07:22.834 [SPEAKER_03]: And then last with certainly not least, I want to thank my friends, if you need to brace it as Phoenix to braces.com, suppliers of superior brace of products for every application, knife making metal fabrication, 07:22.814 --> 07:38.713 [SPEAKER_03]: Belts grind and cutting is flapped as surface conditioning stuff if you go to get your cart filled all their stuff and then in the in the you can put in the promo code FB10 you get 10% off everything or phoenixabracers.com 07:39.031 --> 07:43.279 [SPEAKER_03]: Many thanks to them and many thanks to my friend that my champion friend is back. 07:43.379 --> 07:47.506 [SPEAKER_03]: My friend here, Lea Arpach sculptor to the stars. 07:48.268 --> 07:51.153 [SPEAKER_03]: She is an incredible metal sculptor. 07:51.213 --> 07:52.034 [SPEAKER_03]: You know who she is. 07:52.074 --> 07:59.989 [SPEAKER_03]: She's hot off a trip teaching her her maiden class at the Center for Metal Arts. 08:00.009 --> 08:01.832 [SPEAKER_03]: Lea, how are you? 08:02.437 --> 08:05.042 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing fantastic Jeff, how are you doing? 08:05.162 --> 08:06.285 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so great, you know what? 08:06.986 --> 08:11.515 [SPEAKER_03]: I got so many nice messages about how great of a teacher you were. 08:11.535 --> 08:13.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so sweet. 08:13.459 --> 08:15.383 [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope you had a good time. 08:15.532 --> 08:36.122 [SPEAKER_00]: I had the best time, it was real, yeah, it was my first time ever teaching, and I really wasn't sure if I would enjoy it or not, so it was very like, lit, missed, test, ask for me, and I really, really enjoyed it, it was a lot of fun. 08:36.102 --> 08:41.031 [SPEAKER_03]: So just to start in, there's a class that Center for Metal Arts called school is cool. 08:41.512 --> 08:41.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:42.273 --> 08:47.523 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's almost like the training grounds to get you into teaching a class, right? 08:47.543 --> 08:52.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was like, I took school is cool last. 08:52.893 --> 09:14.395 [SPEAKER_00]: May, I was out there for the entire month, and that course is led by Pat Quinn, the Executive Director of Center for Medal Arts, and he basically helped me and three other students figure out what it was that we felt we could contribute to the community, educationally. 09:14.375 --> 09:25.112 [SPEAKER_00]: and helped us to develop a two-day workshop that we then taught to each other and got amazing feedback. 09:25.793 --> 09:42.559 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was able to spend that month working alongside Pat and in their facility with Mark Kelly as well, developing like a very small two-day workshop version of this class. 09:42.539 --> 09:53.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then we decided to run it and yeah, well, you know, like, we, yeah, we, we tested it the two day went well. 09:54.281 --> 10:03.658 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like it could be expanded to a week long class and, um, Pat agreed and took, took a risk. 10:03.678 --> 10:05.762 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, he doesn't take risks. 10:06.788 --> 10:08.112 [SPEAKER_03]: And I tell you why I know this. 10:08.213 --> 10:09.236 [SPEAKER_03]: I talked to him all the time. 10:09.256 --> 10:09.757 [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't mind. 10:09.777 --> 10:11.362 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to he's going to be on sooner or later. 10:12.285 --> 10:19.448 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember when years ago when he said, when he said submit, he was asking for submissions for classes. 10:19.698 --> 10:23.763 [SPEAKER_03]: And I knew Pat, and I thought, I'm gonna submit this friction folder classes of fun. 10:24.024 --> 10:32.375 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in my mind, I'm trying to, I feel like if I'm doing a teach, I'm gonna teach how to, I'm gonna teach, I wanna get people in the door of blacksmithing. 10:32.395 --> 10:35.298 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't need to, I don't need to give them some master classes. 10:35.358 --> 10:38.262 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather do something fun to get people to the door. 10:38.282 --> 10:44.170 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought, so he said, I'm gonna interview you, and I'm thinking myself, I know Pat, he's gonna interview me. 10:44.150 --> 10:55.557 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you, what do you, and he's took a very seriously, I give him a lot of respect because he took it incredibly seriously wanted to know my teaching style, what I, you know, you know, my whole situation, and I was really impressed. 10:55.737 --> 10:58.564 [SPEAKER_03]: He didn't, I don't think he takes chances, right? 10:59.303 --> 11:02.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm inclined to agree with you. 11:02.787 --> 11:06.752 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't do anything willy-nilly. 11:06.792 --> 11:10.596 [SPEAKER_00]: There's to be a real reason behind everyone of his decisions. 11:10.977 --> 11:26.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's a really wise program to have at his school in the first place where you can be training people in your educational facility to potentially then come back and teach that class. 11:26.675 --> 11:43.851 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, at this point, Pat and I have become really close friends and he knows how intense I am and how hard I work and I think he knew that I would work really hard on the class even after, you know, the month I was there. 11:43.911 --> 11:55.922 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I was going to keep developing the class until it felt ready, you know, and it still feels like a work in progress. 11:56.054 --> 12:12.735 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does feel like it was a it's a really huge honor for me to rise to the ranks of being an educator at the Center for Mental Arts, because I feel like that's a pretty amazing group of people, you know. 12:13.796 --> 12:22.467 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you ever think that this is something what does this something you've always wanted to do? 12:23.122 --> 12:45.501 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not necessarily, and I wouldn't say that like, it's interesting because when I took school as cool, several crafts schools reach out to me and we're like, let us know when you're ready and I have said, like, I'm actually just exclusively teaching this class at Center for Metal Arts for several reasons. 12:45.481 --> 13:06.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but mostly because I'm actually like a real, I mean, you know this about me like I'm a real sensitive person and kind of like a, um, I don't want to say like delicate, but like I get thrown off my orbit really easily and it's hard for me to get back to my baseline and 13:06.035 --> 13:14.748 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't actually think that me traveling around and teaching several classes a year is going to be good for me at all. 13:15.950 --> 13:30.692 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like it's important to give back to the community and that I have something that I'm really excited to share with people that I feel like isn't really out there. 13:31.651 --> 13:41.435 [SPEAKER_00]: being taught, like the model making and then bringing that into steel is kind of a unique thing that I do, other people do it as well. 13:41.455 --> 13:47.890 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that I have been doing it for a really long time and I have a lot of information and techniques to share around that. 13:47.991 --> 13:49.795 [SPEAKER_00]: So, 13:49.775 --> 14:17.723 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels important to take all of the mentorship and time and energy that people have put into me and to start turning around and giving that back in some degree or another that I feel like that's kind of where I'm at in my career and that feels kind of important. 14:19.019 --> 14:21.583 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm fiercely loyal, yeah, that's important. 14:22.023 --> 14:36.825 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's really important and I you know you said some things that I felt the same way is like I never I was kind of thrust in a teaching back in the day like 20 years ago like I was involved when Center for Miller so originally and I was like the assistant teacher. 14:36.805 --> 14:40.552 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was a lot of things that some of the, I was the assistant anytime a teacher come through. 14:41.174 --> 14:48.067 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was always in the room, I was, you know, just changing bottles with fixing impulse tongs and I was really involved in the early days of the teaching. 14:48.648 --> 14:50.652 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of things I thought was, we're dumb. 14:51.073 --> 14:54.920 [SPEAKER_03]: And I had a lot of thought, you know, I, Pat and I talked to it this up playing times. 14:54.981 --> 14:55.742 [SPEAKER_03]: But. 14:55.722 --> 15:06.958 [SPEAKER_03]: teaching recreational forging is relatively new, you know, there's not, there's not thousands and thousands of years of instruction on recreational forging, you know. 15:07.639 --> 15:13.427 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's not a wealth of really good teaching. 15:13.407 --> 15:19.719 [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel that, you know, I've seen, and I've seen, it's not like, I've seen so much bad forging teaching. 15:19.759 --> 15:22.644 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I've seen really great bladesmiths. 15:23.045 --> 15:25.330 [SPEAKER_03]: We're like, really, really great. 15:26.011 --> 15:26.812 [SPEAKER_03]: Not good teachers. 15:26.973 --> 15:30.319 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is something that, you know, you'll end up talking to a lot of, 15:30.299 --> 15:33.864 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of people who they don't know what I'm talking about. 15:33.884 --> 15:42.476 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean the people there's hopefully they're shaking their heads So I get very very conscientious in regards to that whole thing too, and I'm very love them too I'm not going. 15:42.496 --> 15:48.864 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm remembering being interested in traveling around you got blessed Nick Rossi who's going to come on your relative You know, it's something rather than later. 15:48.964 --> 15:50.907 [SPEAKER_03]: He's been on and said talk to him a while 15:50.887 --> 15:54.652 [SPEAKER_03]: He travels around like a maniac and he's he's like loves everything about it. 15:54.872 --> 15:56.434 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I could do it. 15:56.535 --> 15:58.537 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I love going to see Pat. 15:58.637 --> 16:01.181 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel very strongly about what they're doing. 16:01.221 --> 16:05.467 [SPEAKER_03]: And I applaud you for that. 16:06.228 --> 16:13.057 [SPEAKER_03]: For that, you know, you spend a lot of time energy learning stuff from them and the fact that you're just going to school, school, so to them is is great. 16:13.317 --> 16:13.958 [SPEAKER_03]: It's really great. 16:14.208 --> 16:25.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and part of that is about the investment that they put into me, and a lot of it is really selfish too. 16:25.444 --> 16:31.533 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really like being at the Center for Metal Arts, several of my really good friends live there now. 16:31.694 --> 16:40.266 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've become really close with those guys, and so it's an opportunity for me to go out there and be in this incredible facility. 16:40.246 --> 17:00.685 [SPEAKER_00]: And every time I go out there, I always say this, but I experience exponential growth, and I have such a great time, and I get to meet a bunch of amazing Smiths and metal artists, and I always feel incredibly supported and taking care of there, and so I think it's a great opportunity for me to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be 17:00.665 --> 17:20.217 [SPEAKER_00]: about, like, the love that I feel when I'm there and the comfort level that I feel when I'm there and it not being stuffy and institutionalized but professional and there, you know, so it's just, it feels like the right that it's just a good fit for me. 17:20.839 --> 17:24.765 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, the other thing is like, 17:24.745 --> 17:31.196 [SPEAKER_00]: We all know the Center for Metal Arts is a fantastic forging studio. 17:31.256 --> 17:44.138 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not, I mean, I do forging, obviously, that's kind of the middle ground between the fabrication and the model is like forging some elements and then putting those together. 17:44.118 --> 17:56.089 [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of what I do is clay and fabrication, and those were two facilities that they had to specifically invest in and build out for me, and I don't want to do that everywhere. 17:57.031 --> 18:00.540 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was a ton of work for us to get all of that online. 18:00.520 --> 18:25.549 [SPEAKER_00]: together and I mean they did most of the work and you know Pat is saying that he's actually feeling really passionate about all of the plumbing since he's been running like state-of-the-art air systems across the shop to be able to run air tools for eight students at the same time and I'm glad that he had fun doing that but I know doubt that was a ton of investment and time and energy for them. 18:25.529 --> 18:45.546 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it just simply does not make sense for my attention and my energy and my output to be distributed amongst several places, instead it's like let's just keep fine-tuning what we have here because it's special and it feels right for everyone and I like it and 18:46.876 --> 19:04.598 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah it's been a collaboration you know this isn't just my class it's it's been a it's been a full blown collaboration with Pat and Mark and Nate and everyone at the Center for Medal Arts that that supports me and helps me and encourages me well and there you know. 19:04.578 --> 19:08.564 [SPEAKER_03]: It's I love everything you said and I couldn't agree more. 19:08.584 --> 19:16.495 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things that I did want to touch upon is, and then I want to get into the depths of your class, is that it's incredible. 19:16.675 --> 19:18.378 [SPEAKER_03]: The facilities you could eat off the floor. 19:19.119 --> 19:19.920 [SPEAKER_03]: It's beautiful. 19:20.040 --> 19:21.102 [SPEAKER_03]: Everything you need is there. 19:21.923 --> 19:27.971 [SPEAKER_03]: The attention to detail from Pat and Mark and everybody there is really great. 19:28.452 --> 19:32.678 [SPEAKER_03]: To the point where it can be intimidating and here's one of the great parts about 19:32.658 --> 19:49.739 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got like a heel come in, you know, you walk in there and you know, you feel the history of of the Center for Mental Arts and the history of what it used to be and you're seeing all these machines that were like rusty and dead for years coming back to life and it can be a little intimidating. 19:49.759 --> 19:53.383 [SPEAKER_03]: And then walks Pat Quinn, he had a different haircut every time I see him. 19:53.363 --> 19:57.227 [SPEAKER_03]: He's got, he'll hold the bag of chips or something. 19:57.247 --> 20:04.134 [SPEAKER_03]: And he comes in, and he saunters in, and maybe there's some musical in on the background, and he's got a smile on his face, and he'll tell a joke. 20:05.295 --> 20:08.258 [SPEAKER_03]: He'll tell a joke, and I love it when he does it. 20:08.278 --> 20:11.261 [SPEAKER_03]: And he says, he says, because people need the price to be broken. 20:11.682 --> 20:12.522 [SPEAKER_03]: He'll tell a joke. 20:12.823 --> 20:17.788 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, it'll usually, like, have you know, a simple, my favorite joke he tells is the greatest joke. 20:17.808 --> 20:20.991 [SPEAKER_03]: He says, what is the Buddhist monk's 20:22.203 --> 20:23.590 [SPEAKER_03]: Make me one with everything. 20:24.599 --> 20:26.901 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that joke, I love that joke. 20:27.361 --> 20:28.062 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that joke. 20:28.082 --> 20:29.083 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, whatever. 20:29.503 --> 20:34.568 [SPEAKER_03]: But I give him a lot of credit because he's very conscientious of how the students feel. 20:34.648 --> 20:36.069 [SPEAKER_03]: And he wants everyone to be comfortable. 20:36.490 --> 20:38.451 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to be safe, you want to be comfortable. 20:38.532 --> 20:41.734 [SPEAKER_03]: And one line I'll slowly and alone. 20:42.295 --> 20:46.659 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things about I've been in schools where it's like, they like the money. 20:46.699 --> 20:49.722 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, you just gotta make do. 20:50.703 --> 20:54.606 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's always, I've been in the number of places 20:54.586 --> 20:59.913 [SPEAKER_03]: So clearly, they're not as invested in the long term of it. 21:00.013 --> 21:04.800 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like an avenue and they're going to put the minimum amount of effort in. 21:05.100 --> 21:16.055 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's, you know, that's the thing, I don't want to say anything poorly about other people, but I give everyone, every time you go there, the people always are very, very excited. 21:16.075 --> 21:18.298 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, back to your class. 21:18.278 --> 21:24.629 [SPEAKER_03]: What was the name in the class and what was the description of in regards to what you guys were going to get accomplished? 21:25.710 --> 21:29.877 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I want to like speak to what you're just saying about that. 21:29.897 --> 21:30.158 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what? 21:30.358 --> 21:39.173 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I think that I see Pat, you know, as a really a really good friend, but also a mentor and that 21:39.153 --> 21:56.368 [SPEAKER_00]: sort of enigmatic personality he has where he's in one respect like an absolute beast of a metal sculptor and a very serious person and totally a goofball at the same time. 21:56.348 --> 22:13.014 [SPEAKER_00]: it makes for the perfect person to maintain control over a situation like, you know, several people working on power hammers in the room at the same time, but for everyone to have a lot of fun and that's something that I'm kind of trying to channel. 22:13.274 --> 22:15.117 [SPEAKER_00]: I really look up to Pat and I 22:15.097 --> 22:19.983 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's an excellent quality and that his passion is infectious. 22:20.603 --> 22:44.631 [SPEAKER_00]: And those two things, I think, carry a lot of the energy in the room and things that I kind of want to channel into my own educational experiences there. 22:46.197 --> 23:15.327 [SPEAKER_00]: The main point of the class, I think, is to teach people how to make a model and how to work with design elements to create a really good plan to then go into the metal shop and build that sculpture and sort of demystifying the process from taking a ball of clay, turning it into 23:15.307 --> 23:27.038 [SPEAKER_00]: and utilize it as a pattern for building a sculpture and steel that almost exactly emulates the model that you have. 23:27.423 --> 23:32.651 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the craziest part is like, I know that, I mean, I can't do models. 23:33.052 --> 23:43.248 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I can do models for like, if I have to do like a big sculpture, I can do a small version of it, but it's, I can't the thought of using clay and kind of making, actually know what? 23:43.368 --> 23:51.060 [SPEAKER_03]: I did do a few small sculptures for big sculptures, but it's not really, I'm not good at it. 23:51.280 --> 23:54.325 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't like, it's not the part of it that I enjoy. 23:54.305 --> 23:59.692 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm amazed, I love watching you guys do all the clay. 24:00.012 --> 24:10.326 [SPEAKER_03]: So the first thing, the first day, you guys are just like, here's what we're going to make, and yeah, well, I had designed a creature that we're all going to build together. 24:10.346 --> 24:19.478 [SPEAKER_00]: This catfish that has just re-entered the Coney Mow, the Cona Mow. 24:20.299 --> 24:23.603 [SPEAKER_00]: I learned that I'm mispronouncing that river. 24:23.583 --> 24:33.596 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the river that runs through John's town and it's kind of a big deal that this catfish is back because it's really sensitive to pollution. 24:33.657 --> 24:46.093 [SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that it's reappearing in this river sort of is this symbol for resilience and I liked that metaphor for the Center for Metal Arts and that place represents in John's town. 24:46.153 --> 24:46.654 [SPEAKER_00]: So 24:46.634 --> 24:52.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Plus, it's like, you know, it's a catfish, so it's got a lot of fun attributes that we could play with. 24:53.262 --> 25:16.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And then basically, I took that animal and pushed certain elements of the anatomy to make it look more sinister, so that was kind of part of the class with showing people how 25:16.452 --> 25:44.704 [SPEAKER_00]: in a realm where it's making sense but you can make it look a lot scarier like the fin looks a lot more sharp like the dorsal fin and obviously they don't have like a long point detail like the one that we have but ours got a really pointy tail and just the sort of seam on the face is accentuated which puts a lot of tension into the into the creatures posture and face and 25:44.684 --> 26:05.376 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, that's basically how the people that I train with that are creature designers, approach designing creatures is there's always this fast-city attention to the anatomy and how that relates to the way that the creature is. 26:05.476 --> 26:10.945 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is kind of an important part of how I design and work when I'm designing creatures. 26:11.313 --> 26:18.464 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things that I really loved about that particular sculpture, and I got to see it, you know, that it's really great. 26:18.885 --> 26:26.937 [SPEAKER_03]: For sure, one thousand percent, just from a sculptural aspect, I love the fact that it has movement. 26:27.818 --> 26:36.932 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the things for me about especially metal sculpture, and I used to do all these birds and all my giant lures, and I really wanted to give a degree of, 26:36.912 --> 26:39.676 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you make a static object have movement? 26:40.257 --> 26:49.112 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I looked at that catfish creature, though the whiskers are kind of going, moving backwards and the tail is kind of moving. 26:49.592 --> 26:54.280 [SPEAKER_03]: And even though it's static, it always has this kind of, 26:54.260 --> 27:00.070 [SPEAKER_03]: um, directional aspect of it, which I always like pick up on with, especially with sculptures, it's really hard. 27:00.531 --> 27:07.502 [SPEAKER_03]: I think, I think, I think, I think, especially when metal sculpture, the focus is on the fact that this is supposed to be metal. 27:08.103 --> 27:18.681 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like you need to capture degree of the gravity of the material that you're using, but it's always great when you can give a degree of direction or movement with the static object. 27:19.707 --> 27:39.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I feel like that is important for me to put into my compositions with steel because it really is utilizing the material to its fullest like if you want to make something super chunky and massive you could do that in clay, but like 27:39.586 --> 27:53.991 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the benefits of working in steel is that you could have these really dynamic, narrow tendrils that come off and activate all of this negative space and You can do that with steel and it's so strong. 27:54.232 --> 28:04.530 [SPEAKER_00]: It can literally stand up on those things It's support the weight of itself on you know the smallest little detail so aquatic creatures are 28:04.510 --> 28:13.046 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning like really advantageous to sculpt and steel and really fun because they really can appear as if they're in the water. 28:13.607 --> 28:25.489 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I like having a lot of movement and flow in the piece, but I think that was another thing that I was kind of picking up on was 28:25.469 --> 28:44.378 [SPEAKER_00]: spending so much time around Pat at CMA and his the way that he absorbs and and your friction full their class like these classes where there's a piece of John's town experientially in the the the piece that everyone makes together. 28:44.398 --> 28:53.873 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that and so I found that like I'm traveling around. 28:53.853 --> 29:04.648 [SPEAKER_00]: And I find that like my movement and my behavior is like very affected by this river because you have to like get around it or cross it or figure out what is around. 29:05.029 --> 29:15.203 [SPEAKER_00]: So I found that like actually impacting me mentally and being like I feel like I'm moving through this city in a different way than I normally move through the city that I live in. 29:15.183 --> 29:28.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody was like, it's the river, it's like affects the way you move, you know, and I was like, okay, I definitely want the body to have a very river like flow to its spine, even, you know. 29:28.805 --> 29:37.680 [SPEAKER_03]: 100% I, what I like about the classes and I know that, you know, looking at patch sculptures and I have, he gave me one of his, 29:37.660 --> 29:42.728 [SPEAKER_03]: sculptures I'm looking at right now and thinking about my friction folder class in your class. 29:43.149 --> 30:00.478 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that you know there's this I there's a concept that a sculptor's deal with called site-specific sculpture and you think about why it matters you know you can make a sculpture and you know but a lot of times if you're there's maybe a park or there's a call for action and they're looking for artists and stuff like that and you have a you 30:00.458 --> 30:06.029 [SPEAKER_03]: you create this narrative on why the sculptures important this particular place is called the site-specific sculpture. 30:06.450 --> 30:10.397 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never in my life heard before this of like site-specific classes. 30:10.958 --> 30:20.998 [SPEAKER_03]: And I love, I love the fact that it's not just like you're just taking a sculpture class, you're taking something that has a part of John Sound, which I think is super cool. 30:21.518 --> 30:24.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I borrowed that from you and Pat, so. 30:24.301 --> 30:25.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you did? 30:25.583 --> 30:39.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, with Pat being really inspired by the landscapes and your friction folders, having the tokens from the incline plane, I want to call it a finicular. 30:39.679 --> 30:41.201 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's the same thing. 30:41.421 --> 30:50.732 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I feel like that you guys both incorporate 30:50.712 --> 30:51.933 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that a lot. 30:52.194 --> 31:01.304 [SPEAKER_03]: It's needed, it gives it a little bit of value to, you know, you're only making this in John's town, you know, it's like I think that I think it's really, I think it's really great. 31:01.925 --> 31:12.397 [SPEAKER_03]: So day one, you're just talking about the sculpture and then you're, you're, you're working with clay with, I guess you're having, you know, you have armatures inside the clay or yeah. 31:12.417 --> 31:13.378 [SPEAKER_00]: That was that work. 31:13.358 --> 31:14.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man. 31:14.800 --> 31:18.343 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I had to dissect the bill. 31:18.764 --> 31:24.730 [SPEAKER_00]: To go way back, I designed this piece, I built it in steel. 31:24.750 --> 31:35.122 [SPEAKER_00]: I took photos of it for the workshop catalog, and then just trusted that I'd be able to go back and remember how to do it. 31:35.222 --> 31:40.227 [SPEAKER_00]: So then came the time to completely dissect the build. 31:40.207 --> 31:44.733 [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually am a big fan of a packet. 31:44.873 --> 31:49.499 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of my students got like, I don't know, it might have been like an 11 page packet. 31:49.960 --> 31:50.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 31:50.060 --> 32:07.362 [SPEAKER_00]: That was all hand illustrated step by step of how to build their armature and illustrations of all the clay tools we'd be using and some dossier on the clay, the specific clay. 32:07.342 --> 32:24.152 [SPEAKER_00]: And a whole kind of like shopping list of how to set up a clay studio, and then like an illustration of how the armature was going to actually sit within the clay so that they had a good understanding of where they'd want to be massing out and then some geometry. 32:24.132 --> 32:42.782 [SPEAKER_00]: I got really in depth on this packet, like I got really passionate about this packet, but I wanted them to, number one, have something really detailed right in front of them with the measurements so that they could follow along if it was a little challenging, but we all built our armatures together. 32:42.762 --> 33:00.490 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we immediately buried those in clay so I wanted them to have that reference when they went home if they took their model home with them That they would at least be able to re go back and reference their packet to understand what they actually buried in that clay. 33:02.252 --> 33:09.023 [SPEAKER_00]: So they could like emulate those techniques again very easily 33:10.285 --> 33:12.027 [SPEAKER_03]: And then all of them looked the same. 33:12.108 --> 33:19.938 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't, I'm a me, I'm amazed only because I took a clay class back in college and we're all doing the same goddamn thing. 33:19.999 --> 33:22.081 [SPEAKER_03]: And nobody looked the same. 33:22.101 --> 33:24.985 [SPEAKER_03]: It was horrible, mine was the worst. 33:25.026 --> 33:26.227 [SPEAKER_03]: We had a nude model. 33:26.948 --> 33:27.369 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 33:27.509 --> 33:29.712 [SPEAKER_03]: We were so excited because it was just like. 33:29.692 --> 33:47.329 [SPEAKER_03]: This beautiful nude, I mean it was like, I mean we're talking 1990, 1995, this beautiful woman came in and we're like, my teacher's like, alright, no snickering, we're gonna have new models and we're like, we're waiting for these like, and all of a sudden it's like, this vision comes in. 33:47.309 --> 33:53.199 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're trying to do these nude model, this nude of clay, mine was horrible. 33:53.219 --> 33:58.528 [SPEAKER_03]: With the point where I was like, I hope she doesn't see this because this is terrible. 33:58.548 --> 34:01.773 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm super duper not focusing on what I'm supposed to be doing. 34:01.853 --> 34:05.560 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're just so like, this is the being an army, just the greatest thing of all time. 34:05.700 --> 34:06.641 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm better than this. 34:07.323 --> 34:12.912 [SPEAKER_03]: And I just remember, nobody's looked, not even looked the same, not even close. 34:13.162 --> 34:34.596 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I took a lot of classes like that too and it was always really funny like the instructor would be like okay, no get up and walk around and look at everyone else's and some of them you'd be like wow that person is amazing but I remember this one guy and one of my anatomy classes I would always walk around and go to get to his easel and it would just be a pair of boobs. 34:34.576 --> 34:47.671 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds really like art school, like this is like college of like sir, you need to you like we're drawing the knee today That's hilarious. 34:47.691 --> 34:51.876 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, one little new two large breasts. 34:52.356 --> 34:57.242 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like you use your your out of this class is outrageous 34:58.184 --> 35:17.836 [SPEAKER_00]: But that was why we also did in art school a lot of master drawings and like when you'd get to the part of the class where it was time to create a self portrait, there was nowhere to hide, right? 35:17.997 --> 35:24.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if people could tell which one was yours on the board, then you like got 35:24.307 --> 35:50.955 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, a bee or a higher um but if no one could like put match you to yourself portrait like you were screwed basically yeah um that's like some effects like some fairier shit right there well yeah it's like you can't lose your division you can't be like well that's like what you know that's what the model looked like it's like no you don't look like that I'm sorry 35:50.935 --> 35:52.799 [SPEAKER_01]: God, that's hilarious. 35:52.819 --> 35:53.701 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, tough. 35:54.784 --> 36:06.531 [SPEAKER_00]: But I did feel insanely proud of the Claywork and it reminded me of, like, 36:06.511 --> 36:24.283 [SPEAKER_00]: In school, one of my mentors, that was like a figurative mentor to me in clay, he would always be in the middle of the class working on the portrait that this was specifically a portrait class in clay. 36:24.263 --> 36:33.036 [SPEAKER_00]: He'd be working on his, but then he would also come around and like do things to your to show you. 36:33.456 --> 36:40.526 [SPEAKER_00]: And the nice thing about it is like you have like, it's a, it's a, you have two sides. 36:40.606 --> 36:42.028 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a bisected sculpture. 36:42.169 --> 36:45.433 [SPEAKER_00]: So he can show you something very simply on one side. 36:45.453 --> 36:53.545 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can kind of like understand why yours is not looking accurate. 36:53.525 --> 37:13.491 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I actually did that with the students where I would be able to like, I walk around with a fettling knife and just be able to like lay it on their sculpture and be like, you see the valley that needs to be like a flat plane, you know, or I'm going to put a worm on the side of yours, and then you can peel it right back off. 37:13.571 --> 37:18.317 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just want you to see what that looks like when I put this here and they'd be like, oh my god, oh yeah, you know. 37:18.297 --> 37:23.704 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but to their credit, I mean, I think that they all just worked really hard. 37:24.345 --> 37:30.854 [SPEAKER_00]: And human figurative anatomy isn't insanely complicated and really hard to do. 37:30.874 --> 37:35.781 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a fish is a little bit more straightforward, it's a little bit less. 37:36.742 --> 37:42.330 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's something about like humans, like kind of where it is. 37:42.310 --> 37:43.852 [SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of musculature. 37:44.152 --> 37:48.779 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's just psychologically, we don't see people accurately either. 37:48.999 --> 37:50.521 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just very, very hard. 37:50.601 --> 37:57.651 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas like you see a, um, I think everyone can kind of draw spider and it'll look like a spider. 37:58.091 --> 37:58.472 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 37:58.492 --> 37:59.133 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean? 37:59.193 --> 38:00.775 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 38:01.135 --> 38:05.882 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something psychologically complicated about like trying to emulate a person's face. 38:07.023 --> 38:09.887 [SPEAKER_00]: So, not to say that it was easy, but, um, 38:09.867 --> 38:25.142 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, they all did really, really well with the clay and the steel, but the clay, I was not sure how people would respond to it and everyone seemed to enjoy it a lot. 38:25.409 --> 38:40.344 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're teaching it for the first time, which that's only the first time is always the hardest because you don't, it's hard to foresee the problems that you're gonna arise and you have specific deadlines you need to meet per day or half day. 38:40.825 --> 38:49.594 [SPEAKER_03]: So like that's the hardest part of like you almost need the problems so you can address them now and then you can kind of bank that for the next time. 38:49.979 --> 39:05.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, and I wasn't really, this was one of the things that I kind of learned those big takeaway for me was that the clay is all of us sitting around a table together. 39:05.538 --> 39:24.070 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's quiet and it's calm and no one's like wrapped in PPE, so it's actually the perfect opportunity to work with each student, what I'm one and help them analyze those forms and see those forms so that when they go into the steel. 39:24.691 --> 39:37.975 [SPEAKER_00]: they have already done it once, like they've already done the build and and so if you can help them address like where they're not seeing something or something is kind of 39:40.250 --> 40:06.527 [SPEAKER_00]: like you can see that there's a fascinating disconnect where like the you know a tail should be convex and for whatever reason it's looking very concave and there's some sort of weird geometry thing going on there you can kind of like enforce that in the clay so much easier and help them see that then if you are trying to like work with them when they're geared up in their grinding 40:06.507 --> 40:24.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I feel like there's something very, I just felt like it was really one of my favorite things to sit them and work to work out the forums and the client with them. 40:24.378 --> 40:52.883 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, see what's really interesting listening to you now is that then, you know, the next half is you're doing the same thing, but it's almost like both methods are totally different languages using clay and kind of like, you know, you have your fingers and you could add and subtract and it's with ease, but I don't know how you get to that point and translate it into forging and grinding and welding and sanding and 40:52.863 --> 40:54.545 [SPEAKER_03]: That must have been a total trip. 40:55.206 --> 41:05.720 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think I was also reinforcing for them that the things that they're frustrated about with the clay would not be the things they'd be frustrated about with the steel. 41:06.641 --> 41:06.861 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:06.881 --> 41:15.933 [SPEAKER_00]: So like they have this like hunk of mud that they're pulling out of the toaster oven because this oil clay is something that needs to be heated. 41:16.013 --> 41:20.018 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's actually, there's a lot of like... 41:19.998 --> 41:22.922 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say metaphors, but I don't think that's appropriated. 41:22.982 --> 41:25.565 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very comparable to how you would work with steel. 41:25.585 --> 41:26.927 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to warm up a clay. 41:27.448 --> 41:29.510 [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing is that you're not starting with stock. 41:29.610 --> 41:33.435 [SPEAKER_00]: You're starting with lumps of like a hunk of something. 41:33.536 --> 41:39.323 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really easy to lose control of your geometry with clay. 41:39.303 --> 41:54.460 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you get into steel and you're starting with a 1-inch square bar it's a lot easier to maintain that geometry because you're kind of like starting with a specific dimension and ending with a specific dimension. 41:54.440 --> 41:58.386 [SPEAKER_00]: and working with, you know, if you're on the power hammer, like parallel dies. 41:58.966 --> 42:12.946 [SPEAKER_00]: In some ways, the steel is a lot easier to control the geometry than the clay, but fixing the stakes and smoothing things out is a lot easier in the clay than it is in the steel. 42:13.126 --> 42:17.573 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like they each have their benefits and their disadvantages. 42:17.613 --> 42:21.358 [SPEAKER_00]: And so trying to get them kind of, 42:21.338 --> 42:28.105 [SPEAKER_00]: If they're getting frustrated about one being like, oh, this is going to be not your problem in the steel. 42:28.305 --> 42:34.232 [SPEAKER_00]: You won't have the same problem, so that was kind of interesting to think about. 42:34.292 --> 42:44.663 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that I don't really think about it all that much when I'm working in clay, but I think it gave me a new appreciation for like when I flip into the steel. 42:44.643 --> 42:50.571 [SPEAKER_00]: How easy it is to just pull stock and start working. 42:50.591 --> 42:52.895 [SPEAKER_03]: So just to get back into the clay. 42:53.135 --> 42:56.440 [SPEAKER_03]: So we heated up to like, how hot do you get it? 42:57.261 --> 43:04.851 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this particular clay that we're working with is Cultivant, non-sulfurized plasticine. 43:05.232 --> 43:10.339 [SPEAKER_00]: And it likes to, it gets about soft at 125. 43:10.359 --> 43:13.924 [SPEAKER_00]: It's liquid at like 150. 43:13.904 --> 43:41.532 [SPEAKER_00]: You can pour this clay, you can brush this clay, you can melt it, you can carve some textures into something and then hit it with a blotor, it's really quick and smooth it all out and then hit it with an electronics duster and cool it off really quick, so it's very, it's very manipulatable via temperature. 43:41.883 --> 43:44.406 [SPEAKER_03]: So when it gets cool, does it be just hard to work with? 43:44.867 --> 43:45.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's carveable. 43:45.948 --> 43:53.398 [SPEAKER_00]: So in some ways, it's easier to work with, but you have to have your geometry under control or else, it's like, yeah. 43:53.478 --> 44:10.540 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and the way that working with Simon Lee, who's a creature designer that I talk about a lot, he kind of got me to think about it more as a forging process with the clay, because I was doing something very fabrication 44:10.520 --> 44:21.863 [SPEAKER_00]: here and there and then like cutting it back and scraping it back and carving it back and he was like no, just take a hunk of clay and just like compress it, like just keep packing the clay with your hands. 44:22.720 --> 44:47.833 [SPEAKER_00]: moving down it in parallel like working it from two sides with your hands and compress it that way it's much stronger and then when you're ready to go in and carve your textures like you don't have any cold shots effectively under the surface which would be frustrating so yeah you kind of want to treat it like it's like steel 44:48.488 --> 44:49.329 [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting. 44:49.709 --> 45:13.433 [SPEAKER_00]: I never, and how does it, it's hard enough that the, the, the, the creatures were standing up on their fins or well, there's armature in there, um, so it's still pretty soft, but it can't like sustain too much weight, um, which like, yeah, you'll kind of want to change the diameter of the armature wire depending on what you're doing. 45:13.413 --> 45:33.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I was telling the students like sometimes if I'm doing a spider and the legs are particularly thin and the body is particularly heavy I have to like loop the toes and screw them into a wood board just to arrest them so that they don't slide out You know, so there's a lot of different techniques you can do with the armatures 45:33.072 --> 45:54.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you can kind of like wrap the armature around all thread and then kind of back the thread in and out and actually thread the wire and then create an armature off of that like if you wanted a tiger that was jumping in the air like you could actually kind of 45:54.301 --> 46:04.278 [SPEAKER_00]: have a steel rod that holds the physical body of the creature, and then you kind of unscrew it from the post to work on it. 46:04.418 --> 46:14.115 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's so many different techniques you can use, but for our purposes, yeah, it was just mostly standing up on its toes, its armature toes. 46:15.074 --> 46:25.551 [SPEAKER_03]: Just to bring it reminded me, the sculptures that I used the last, you know, metal sculptures I really like doing, and I probably will get back into it at some point. 46:26.011 --> 46:31.480 [SPEAKER_03]: It was all Oxy's settling wire, and we do all, 46:31.460 --> 46:54.919 [SPEAKER_03]: Eighth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and sixeenth and six 46:54.899 --> 47:03.073 [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing working on these enormous, you know, eight-foot armatures all out of steel, welded steel rod. 47:03.814 --> 47:08.442 [SPEAKER_03]: And we had a very good relationship, she ended up passing away, you know, 20 years ago. 47:08.503 --> 47:19.742 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was this really kind of like really amazing opportunity to make help make armatures specifically for someone to cover them in plaster and different types of materials. 47:20.363 --> 47:31.653 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I hadn't really built like that until I jumped on a monument project in 2021 in Montgomery, Alabama. 47:31.973 --> 47:40.061 [SPEAKER_00]: This monument of these three women that were former slaves actually. 47:40.081 --> 47:50.370 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was an existing project that just needed some extra help buttoning it up. 47:50.350 --> 48:09.051 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going down to help Michelle with this and I was like, yeah, I'll go down there for two weeks like why not and what the faces were was still rods that were welded together and they all basically needed to be skinned with 48:09.031 --> 48:32.760 [SPEAKER_00]: different types of metal and Michelle saw my work and she was like you're doing the faces and I had to kind of like adjust some of the wires because I was like this anatomy doesn't it like I I don't know how to lay it on this it's not but it was the first time I'd ever worked like that because it's so large scale that you have to build hollow 48:32.740 --> 48:39.514 [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's something that I try to do from time to time when I have like an extra complex piece. 48:39.735 --> 48:50.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I will actually take wire and build out like the cage of the mass before I start like laying sheet on top of that. 48:51.708 --> 48:52.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Great. 48:52.129 --> 49:14.290 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so envious of this method that you're doing because it just seems like the clay is the clay model is so important to the way you get to the point of all your sculpture like obviously it's it's important enough that you I mean how many days in the class was it just the clay sculpture play the model. 49:14.506 --> 49:18.170 [SPEAKER_00]: We did one and a half days in the clay model. 49:18.310 --> 49:20.032 [SPEAKER_00]: They were, they were booking it. 49:20.312 --> 49:21.534 [SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was shocked. 49:21.594 --> 49:24.757 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we had to do a quick wardrobe change halfway through the day. 49:24.817 --> 49:27.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and by wardrobe, I mean, a quick and change. 49:28.401 --> 49:32.746 [SPEAKER_00]: Where we thought we were going to do two full days of clay and then three of steel. 49:32.786 --> 49:36.830 [SPEAKER_00]: But we had so much to do in steel that I was like, they're going really fast. 49:37.171 --> 49:39.954 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to like change over lunch. 49:40.514 --> 49:41.155 [SPEAKER_03]: That's great. 49:41.135 --> 50:07.497 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah it was amazing i was really blown away by that um uh but like yeah i mean i'm working on a concept right now and i'm like i'm starting to get like give myself a pep talk and be like you need to be prepared to spend like two weeks on this model which is which is hard like that's that's a lot of time for me but it's like that's that's how involved the sculpture 50:08.320 --> 50:23.342 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah there's a i don't know let's say like a i don't even know if the two to three ratio is all that accurate but um yeah it's a it's a good percent of the build is is the model 50:24.132 --> 50:34.932 [SPEAKER_03]: And then let's, so then you get to the steel, I know, in my mind, just looking at the way you work in general, I mean, I mean, we haven't really, I haven't seen, we haven't worked together at all. 50:35.433 --> 50:37.156 [SPEAKER_03]: But I know that there's a ton of welding. 50:37.838 --> 50:40.182 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you get only students welding at the same time? 50:40.402 --> 50:41.404 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you get a fortune? 50:41.424 --> 50:42.346 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, fortune? 50:42.366 --> 50:44.470 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you got all the forges and something like that. 50:44.450 --> 50:48.555 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you, what do people in line for the welders and the stuff? 50:48.976 --> 50:57.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so funny enough, uh, going back to, they didn't really do forging. 50:57.526 --> 51:00.510 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they didn't actually forge their pieces. 51:01.111 --> 51:06.217 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is like, this is a definitely something that I, I want to talk about. 51:06.257 --> 51:10.643 [SPEAKER_00]: So when Pat and I, 51:11.180 --> 51:23.543 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we, we knew we were running the class and I reached back out and was like five days, two sculptures, I don't know how, we're going to get these students to like, forge all of these elements. 51:23.603 --> 51:25.687 [SPEAKER_00]: I just simply don't think there's going to be enough time. 51:25.727 --> 51:31.939 [SPEAKER_00]: And also like, I'm not super. 51:31.919 --> 51:45.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just learning from Pat like this concept of like teach what you know, I know how to make a taperer, but like I'm not a fantastic blacksmith. 51:45.529 --> 51:47.694 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not my area of expertise. 51:47.714 --> 51:50.620 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the I've spent thousands of hours building models. 51:50.600 --> 51:54.266 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've spent thousands of hours with welders and grinders. 51:55.649 --> 52:03.482 [SPEAKER_00]: The in-between is something that is still kind of an area where I feel like I lack expertise. 52:04.484 --> 52:07.389 [SPEAKER_00]: I also stand at a power hammer. 52:07.709 --> 52:12.878 [SPEAKER_00]: I stand at a power hammer goofy and I'm a little uncomfortable teaching people 52:12.858 --> 52:19.210 [SPEAKER_00]: How to work on a power hammer because I my stance is like really weird What are you talking about? 52:19.230 --> 52:36.722 [SPEAKER_00]: I stand at a hammer like I stand on a surfboard and it's like not safe It's not it's not great like it's a very weird people say I have a very weird stance at the hammer You know what I don't believe you know what you got I don't think you do I've seen what's a weird stance in the hammer when people's noses are up in there 52:36.702 --> 52:37.924 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a weird sense. 52:38.445 --> 52:41.149 [SPEAKER_03]: I see a lot of dudes with their noses up in there. 52:41.189 --> 52:42.331 [SPEAKER_03]: That's to me. 52:42.391 --> 52:43.453 [SPEAKER_03]: That's a weird stance. 52:43.473 --> 52:44.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 52:45.016 --> 52:50.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, it was, um, so one of the reasons was we had this time constraint. 52:51.286 --> 52:59.419 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Pat was like, well, why can't it be a creative fabrication class where everyone gets a kid? 52:59.399 --> 53:04.586 [SPEAKER_00]: which I kind of love the idea of that because it almost reminds me of like these monster kits you get. 53:04.646 --> 53:18.044 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like you, you know, um, are given like the parts and you assemble the thing together and paint it and, um, um, and so, uh, not that I've ever done one, but I think they're very cool. 53:18.144 --> 53:20.507 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually just bought in a assembled genome or a few other days. 53:20.567 --> 53:26.335 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, um, looking at it right now and I'm like, yeah, they're very cool. 53:26.315 --> 53:30.386 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have time to let everyone forge their pieces. 53:30.487 --> 53:41.337 [SPEAKER_00]: That would have we were two sculptures five days They were early really we were really pushing it And they were working really hard and really fast 53:41.317 --> 53:48.603 [SPEAKER_00]: We were worried about bottlenecking with grinders and welders, but we had three welders to work with. 53:49.244 --> 54:00.534 [SPEAKER_00]: And Mark and Pat built out this incredible grinding station with this manifold for each. 54:00.794 --> 54:11.323 [SPEAKER_00]: It had six grinding stations all separated by plywood. 54:11.303 --> 54:36.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, you know, the grinding was always gonna be the time consuming element, but I had a sense that if we had one extra station, um, that we'd probably, the Evan flow would be such that it would, it would work out and it did not seem like anyone was like super frustrated waiting for a welder or grinder. 54:36.430 --> 54:56.673 [SPEAKER_00]: So the pacing worked out well, but me and Pat have always talked about this class being an expanded class That is a two week class where I invite Pat into the classroom to teach it with me and he would be teaching the forging elements. 54:57.154 --> 54:58.455 [SPEAKER_00]: So 54:58.435 --> 55:00.498 [SPEAKER_00]: given how it went this year. 55:00.518 --> 55:08.030 [SPEAKER_00]: We are considering expanding the class to a two-week class where me and Pat are co-teaching it. 55:08.071 --> 55:13.980 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that will 55:13.960 --> 55:30.771 [SPEAKER_00]: even further demystify the process because there was something that was a little lost in the they built a model and then they had pre-forged pieces like I had to forge out all of these octagon tapers and 55:30.751 --> 55:53.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Pat forced all of their fins for them and so they were given like I don't know like eight or ten pieces that were kind of pre-forged and and set And so there wasn't you know, they had all these beautiful avenues of creative expression a little bit with their clay that then they were handed this taper and it was like well, does you know to a certain extent 55:53.802 --> 55:58.120 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that your model like your belly is bigger than this ball. 55:58.181 --> 56:02.800 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm giving you, but this is the ball you're being given like and so 56:03.708 --> 56:23.345 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be an even more powerful class if they built their models and then we're actually able to put a tape up to that and build their models to speck off of that, which would be about them forging those pieces for themselves instead of receiving a kit. 56:23.726 --> 56:24.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 56:24.447 --> 56:39.469 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not to say, I mean, I still feel like looking at their models and looking at their steel pieces, they all looked really similar, you know, but that would kind of give them that extra... 56:41.255 --> 56:55.370 [SPEAKER_00]: 7% of experience of like putting a tape up to their model and emulating their model instead of kind of just going with this process and it being a demystification, it would be a little bit more empowering. 56:55.390 --> 56:57.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see the fun. 56:57.235 --> 57:01.222 [SPEAKER_03]: I can see just listening to you and thinking about all the different things you're doing. 57:01.342 --> 57:08.694 [SPEAKER_03]: I can see that a longer class would be, you know, you've got to cut your losses somewhere. 57:09.816 --> 57:17.168 [SPEAKER_03]: It seemed like it was very clear now that we were talking that some of the things would have been a little bit hard under the timeline of everything. 57:17.806 --> 57:33.470 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but that being said to those that are listening like me and pattern genuinely entrusted in like interest over like because I I think that the concern is it's hard for people to take two weeks off. 57:35.193 --> 57:38.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And we definitely want to run the class again. 57:39.119 --> 57:42.244 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll do what makes more sense. 57:42.224 --> 57:44.306 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was some hot work to be done. 57:44.386 --> 57:51.114 [SPEAKER_00]: People got to bend their bodies and bend their barbles, which are like the little tendrils off the face. 57:51.254 --> 57:58.702 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know, I think it would have been a more powerful educational experience with the forging elements. 57:58.723 --> 58:01.145 [SPEAKER_00]: But I still feel like people learned a lot and had a lot of fun. 58:01.365 --> 58:02.707 [SPEAKER_03]: But this is the first class. 58:02.847 --> 58:05.250 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is like, this is the way you got to do it. 58:05.310 --> 58:08.974 [SPEAKER_03]: And from what I, the messages that I got were how fabulous you are. 58:09.157 --> 58:11.385 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's so kind. 58:11.425 --> 58:20.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people were very nice about it But I you know, I'm kind of like I don't know if you're just saying that to me to be nice or if you Why would anyone be nice? 58:22.403 --> 58:23.645 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 58:23.866 --> 58:44.040 [SPEAKER_03]: No, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't 58:44.020 --> 58:48.765 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm racing to, I'm not racing, but I'm making sure that everyone comes across. 58:49.285 --> 58:57.173 [SPEAKER_03]: I have like three different, you know, finish lines, you know, there's getting a lot of forging done, then getting ready for heat treatment. 58:57.193 --> 59:01.477 [SPEAKER_03]: It's got to be heat treated a specific time, and then it's got to be, you know, started and finished this or time. 59:01.497 --> 59:12.407 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have three specific deadlines that I'm, you know, and it can be exhausting just the, just the being on board 59:12.387 --> 59:19.614 [SPEAKER_03]: help someone do what you're asking them to do can be mentally tiring. 59:19.634 --> 59:21.016 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 59:21.456 --> 59:26.662 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm definitely an introvert and I spend a lot of time alone when I'm at home. 59:26.862 --> 59:33.869 [SPEAKER_00]: So that it's always an interesting experience when I go to a CMA and I'm like amongst eight people in a house. 59:33.889 --> 59:37.973 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm, you know, I'm getting to hang out with Pat and 59:38.273 --> 59:43.500 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark and like I want to hang out every night, you know, I've definitely not my cadence at home. 59:44.642 --> 59:51.071 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's usually very social and it's a lot more like communication than I'm used to. 59:51.111 --> 59:56.779 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why like I went out there early. 59:56.839 --> 01:00:06.492 [SPEAKER_00]: Like partially to prepare for the class because we had to do all of this forging ahead of time to create all these kits. 01:00:06.472 --> 01:00:11.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but also so I could get acclimated to the time difference because the time difference fucking kills me. 01:00:12.238 --> 01:00:13.240 [SPEAKER_00]: It fucking kills me. 01:00:14.141 --> 01:00:25.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't I didn't get used to it until like four or five days in and that's really hard for me because I get like my grains when I'm thrown off like I just get really like I get dizzy. 01:00:25.353 --> 01:00:29.598 [SPEAKER_00]: I have vertigo issues like it's when I'm Not getting sleep. 01:00:29.678 --> 01:00:31.159 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like really really hard on me. 01:00:31.280 --> 01:00:34.403 [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't want that to affect the class 01:00:34.383 --> 01:01:02.888 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a good thing I did fly out early because, and like I had spent like the last, you know, two or three weeks before the class, before I flew out there, like just working every day, preparing and building all of these sculptures. 01:01:02.868 --> 01:01:25.147 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I wanted to have as many like pre-built creatures at different phases so that I would be able to, I wouldn't have to be preparing for those demos while I was like in the class because I felt like that would be too much for me to have to track and do at the same time. 01:01:25.207 --> 01:01:31.693 [SPEAKER_00]: But unfortunately, they got stolen. 01:01:31.673 --> 01:01:34.256 [SPEAKER_03]: I was about to ask you all your tools got stolen. 01:01:34.396 --> 01:01:35.758 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what happened? 01:01:35.778 --> 01:01:53.158 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so when I'm traveling for work, I, I, I, I'm sure I have mentioned this before, but I, I live up, I, my house is on the side of a cliff and so I park on a street and I walk up 70 stairs to get to my front door. 01:01:53.138 --> 01:02:08.559 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I usually pack up my tools at my shop and then I leave them in the back of my car out front of my house so that when I come down with my suitcases in the morning to get in the car and go to the airport I have like one less case to carry it on this day. 01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:20.175 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I went to get into my, went to open my car in the morning as I'm getting into the lift and my case of tools is gone. 01:02:20.847 --> 01:02:30.807 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this is the second time they've gotten into my car and I simply don't understand how like it's this car is supposed to be 01:02:31.799 --> 01:02:32.901 [SPEAKER_00]: unseftable. 01:02:33.241 --> 01:02:35.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just not, it doesn't make any sense. 01:02:35.445 --> 01:02:36.126 [SPEAKER_00]: There's an alarm. 01:02:36.187 --> 01:02:39.592 [SPEAKER_00]: The door is automatically lock when I walk away. 01:02:39.613 --> 01:02:45.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's plugged in to an electric supply. 01:02:45.262 --> 01:02:48.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, like I, I simply don't understand. 01:02:48.127 --> 01:02:51.152 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have my fab and like one of those signal blocking boxes. 01:02:51.253 --> 01:02:55.179 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just simply don't know how they're getting into the car. 01:02:55.199 --> 01:02:55.780 [SPEAKER_00]: But they did. 01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.283 [SPEAKER_03]: And what was taken? 01:02:57.905 --> 01:03:22.782 [SPEAKER_00]: so they stole, I had a case in the back with, um, I think the, the one thing, the thing I was most upset about was that my favorite forging hammer was in there, which was one that Pat Quinn gave me, um, that he had made, um, it was like really small and like, it was the perfect size for me, and, um, yeah, that was like the one sentimental thing in there. 01:03:22.762 --> 01:03:36.140 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the rest was like, it was probably like $600 worth of grinders and several sculptures that were built to varying degrees of completion. 01:03:36.201 --> 01:03:44.071 [SPEAKER_00]: But luckily, the one good thing is that I also had a duffle bag with all of my gear. 01:03:44.192 --> 01:03:47.436 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have, 01:03:47.416 --> 01:04:08.275 [SPEAKER_00]: like a really nice paper breathing respirator that I wear when I'm grinding and it was quite expensive and it's funny I was like I don't want to I usually carry it all in a duffel bag and just carry it on the plane with me and this time I was like I'm just gonna bring it up and put it in a different suitcase so that I can check it and not have to carry it around. 01:04:08.776 --> 01:04:15.482 [SPEAKER_00]: So luckily that that case didn't get stolen because that would have 01:04:15.462 --> 01:04:35.580 [SPEAKER_00]: Such a violation it feels like it feels like such a violation Yeah, they Yeah, yeah, I'm really upset about it, but I Yeah, they also like got into my stash and like ground up weed all over my 01:04:35.560 --> 01:04:39.745 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it like all in control buttons all over my console. 01:04:39.825 --> 01:04:59.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Just fucking got stuff all in the buttons and We're like hanging out in my car for a while Got I don't even know what they were doing like so it's just like I don't know if these are like kids I don't I don't know like they just tore open all of my stuff out of my console is just like it's just 01:05:01.109 --> 01:05:02.091 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really frustrating. 01:05:02.371 --> 01:05:03.293 [SPEAKER_03]: That sucks. 01:05:03.313 --> 01:05:04.014 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry. 01:05:04.034 --> 01:05:08.662 [SPEAKER_03]: So you get to put some, like, so now it's going to be cameras and shit, ring cameras and stuff. 01:05:08.963 --> 01:05:26.053 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I used to have a camera on my staircase, and it encouraged safety behavior, and I don't know if you're familiar with this concept, but it was like every time my fucking camera would pin or my phone would ping and tell me, like someone was on my stairs, you know? 01:05:26.033 --> 01:05:46.742 [SPEAKER_00]: I would get this like someone's on my stairs and it was always someone who meant like need it to be there like it was like a delivery person or a riddle person or someone swapping our propane tanks We're you know like and My therapist said that that's actually not good for me to like keep getting alerted to danger and so 01:05:46.722 --> 01:05:55.240 [SPEAKER_00]: I just need to call the manufacturer my car and find out what the fuck is going on because I I feel like there might be something wrong with my car. 01:05:55.280 --> 01:05:56.322 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know. 01:05:56.342 --> 01:05:59.128 [SPEAKER_00]: I might put like a fake camera down there, but like 01:05:59.716 --> 01:06:14.655 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't want a real camera because I just feel like it's going to, um, it's going to keep like giving me this feedback loop of, yeah, yeah, I feel the same way I don't, I don't, I mean, I, I don't want to ring camera. 01:06:14.675 --> 01:06:15.496 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to know. 01:06:15.596 --> 01:06:21.724 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to be, I got these dogs who go out of their goddamn minds when anyone comes up on the step. 01:06:22.225 --> 01:06:25.369 [SPEAKER_03]: And we haven't had any problems because they're, they're crazy. 01:06:25.720 --> 01:06:31.069 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you thought of having to deal with the camera, I just can't do it. 01:06:31.550 --> 01:06:42.469 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's not like the cops are going to be like, oh, let me look at your, like the cops, unless it's a violent crime, they're not doing anything about it in Oakland. 01:06:42.910 --> 01:06:44.252 [SPEAKER_03]: So they say sucks to be you. 01:06:44.232 --> 01:06:47.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're like, okay, lock your doors next time. 01:06:47.718 --> 01:06:58.596 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, like put a camera up, whatever, but like, if there's nothing, all you're gonna do is watch footage of people stealing your shit. 01:06:58.616 --> 01:07:01.060 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd rather not know, you know. 01:07:01.040 --> 01:07:09.788 [SPEAKER_00]: And people are brazen too like there's there's cameras all over my yard where they're like breaking in with guns like they don't give a fuck Like breaking you with guns. 01:07:10.068 --> 01:07:11.550 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, well, yeah, you're house. 01:07:11.790 --> 01:07:29.967 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, in at my shop in the home like that that was you know the first place that Man, I've had so many grinders stolen like it's crazy Like I think that I have all brand new grinders at this point because they just keep getting stolen from it Would you ever make like a sculptural safe? 01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:33.303 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that would be kind of cool. 01:07:33.744 --> 01:07:37.130 [SPEAKER_03]: I tell you what I did years ago and it actually ruined a friendship. 01:07:37.832 --> 01:07:44.825 [SPEAKER_03]: We at my first studio in Brooklyn, we had this guy who was our friend, but he would come into our shop. 01:07:44.845 --> 01:07:45.627 [SPEAKER_03]: We had a dark board. 01:07:45.747 --> 01:07:53.322 [SPEAKER_03]: My, I was working for this guy Lee and he was an English sculptor in every day like 330. 01:07:53.302 --> 01:08:07.632 [SPEAKER_03]: He'd send me out to get tea, and then we come back in third darts, or beer, and we throw it, we play cricket, and play darts, and this one friend of ours would come in, whatever you wanted, and all of us that were working, and you hear, thwack, thwack, thwack, thwack. 01:08:08.303 --> 01:08:16.591 [SPEAKER_03]: And it annoyed me because I was just like, I'm gonna try to work and you're like playing darts in my studio. 01:08:17.392 --> 01:08:19.053 [SPEAKER_03]: So I made this cover. 01:08:19.313 --> 01:08:36.910 [SPEAKER_03]: This, I took out a plow shear and I welded this plow shear onto this angle and then I made this safe box that the darts went into and then it would turn over and then it would cover the, it would cover the, the dartboard perfectly. 01:08:36.890 --> 01:08:44.285 [SPEAKER_03]: and one day he came in and he saw this thing and he got so upset because he thought, why would you do this? 01:08:44.525 --> 01:08:58.172 [SPEAKER_03]: You just, you all you to do is tell me you don't want me to play darts and it, I thought it was funny but at the same time it was like this, I made this dart board protector like this giant brass with a nipple on it, it was like almost. 01:08:58.152 --> 01:09:17.157 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it was swinging over to cover the dark board and you could not throw darts and we thought it was all we thought we didn't take us for a long We all thought it was very funny, but the guy who would come in was furious with us, but I thought yeah We're going to have a dart board protector because I can't be having people coming in here throwing darts whenever the hell they want 01:09:17.137 --> 01:09:21.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I can't stand when people just show up at my shop. 01:09:21.925 --> 01:09:27.194 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens very, very infrequently these days, but we also, we know of a security system, so. 01:09:27.314 --> 01:09:38.132 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you made like a sculptural safe, because now you have the beautiful sculptural house bird forage, which is just like this beautiful object. 01:09:38.855 --> 01:09:48.882 [SPEAKER_03]: And feel as though you need some sort of sculptural safe, like a monster that hope that you can't, and that all your grinders are in there, and it's like a protective sculptural safe. 01:09:49.013 --> 01:09:51.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that sounds like a lot of fun. 01:09:51.378 --> 01:09:53.342 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I do make something like that. 01:09:53.622 --> 01:09:56.588 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, because it's just like, fuck you, you can't take my stuff. 01:09:57.189 --> 01:09:59.133 [SPEAKER_03]: And this monster's gonna protect my stuff. 01:09:59.394 --> 01:10:09.254 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it could be an octopus and eat one of the grinders could come out of one of its pentacles, but you couldn't see them because the plugs are like captured within... 01:10:09.915 --> 01:10:10.937 [SPEAKER_03]: I assure. 01:10:10.917 --> 01:10:15.744 [SPEAKER_03]: It just seems as though that there's gotta be some sort of like fuck you to thieves. 01:10:16.324 --> 01:10:21.572 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you need some sort of like your monsters need to to protect your stuff. 01:10:22.212 --> 01:10:25.397 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 01:10:25.577 --> 01:10:25.898 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 01:10:26.679 --> 01:10:27.740 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this story. 01:10:27.900 --> 01:10:28.661 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate this story. 01:10:28.681 --> 01:10:29.543 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate this story. 01:10:29.903 --> 01:10:30.444 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 01:10:31.185 --> 01:10:40.097 [SPEAKER_03]: It feels like that's your, this is like your bread and butter, because it's like, you know, the monsters are going to protect your things. 01:10:40.887 --> 01:10:49.899 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I maybe I just need like a really scary sculpture at the base of my stairs by my car So that's what pops out. 01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:51.862 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the light shot on it. 01:10:51.922 --> 01:10:53.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Fuck out of people. 01:10:53.163 --> 01:11:06.962 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like a like a sense of like Japanese mask with teeth and yeah, and then you do like the light Then then like the motion sensor light comes on it and then the eyes and then maybe you can make some sort of weird noise and 01:11:06.942 --> 01:11:19.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they ain't got to get the fuck then you got to get the ring camera to get people I mean that's what blows my mind is like I'm like you know 01:11:19.885 --> 01:11:48.627 [SPEAKER_00]: are people trying to get in my car every night because what are the odds that like the one night I leave something in there because you usually don't like you don't leave shit in your car in Oakland that's just the really bad idea um like the one night that I leave it in there and it just makes me feel like there are people down there every night clicking the doors and trying to like get in you know um so yeah I 01:11:49.906 --> 01:12:19.710 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah for sure but it did the good news is like I got out there early like I flew out there early and the plan going back to your question about like rest and all that the plan was to kind of like have a rest full few days where I'm forging out pieces but I've got like most of it figured out and just getting acclimated and maybe helping Mark and Pat like set up the facilities and instead 01:12:19.690 --> 01:12:25.222 [SPEAKER_00]: But I got really fast and good at the, like, you know, it just makes you stronger and faster. 01:12:25.282 --> 01:12:27.768 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just got wave way faster at the build. 01:12:28.589 --> 01:12:32.017 [SPEAKER_00]: And that felt like a silver lining to it all, you know. 01:12:32.077 --> 01:12:34.442 [SPEAKER_03]: So you happy with how the class went? 01:12:35.131 --> 01:12:37.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm really happy without the class one. 01:12:38.496 --> 01:12:43.524 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm usually so self-critical, and I feel like, yeah, I think it went really good. 01:12:43.585 --> 01:12:58.168 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm super proud of the work that they did, and I feel like there were some real moments, like, just things I could see in people's eyes, like, wow, I can't believe I sculpted this. 01:12:58.148 --> 01:13:10.262 [SPEAKER_00]: or like just, you know, walking around and helping people with their clay and showing them with like a knife like where the geometry is going off or what I'm seeing and just kind of seeing the recognition and their eyes. 01:13:11.964 --> 01:13:22.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like it was a lot more rewarding than I thought it would be and and I was really really blown away by whatever one accomplished. 01:13:23.016 --> 01:13:26.400 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you see how that class would affect your work? 01:13:27.967 --> 01:13:49.806 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah yeah i mean i think it like it it helps me appreciate certain things about it that like going you know because i do have strong control over the geometry of my clay um like watching people doing it for the first time and being like man i you know it helps me realize that 01:13:49.786 --> 01:14:18.223 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I do have some experience there and and like it, it helps me kind of see it through new eyes again where you can get so jaded by your process sometimes and be like, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm good at this, but I should be better, you know, or I could be better and there's always room for improvement, which is always going to be true, but it was nice to be like, wow, I, I remember being like, 01:14:18.203 --> 01:14:22.609 [SPEAKER_00]: in the early stages of this and how exciting that was, but also how challenging that was. 01:14:22.669 --> 01:14:37.007 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I feel like the more time I've spent doing it, the more I feel empowered that I can push my work further and further conceptually because of what I can do in clay. 01:14:37.067 --> 01:14:42.574 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it really just built an appreciation for that. 01:14:43.010 --> 01:14:57.515 [SPEAKER_03]: I like how these things, especially the teaching for me, is the more you kind of verbalize it and take someone through something, the more you feel confident in what you're doing. 01:14:58.436 --> 01:15:07.131 [SPEAKER_03]: Like every time, what did they say in Hillary was telling me that when in nursing school, it's learn one, speak one, teach one or something like that. 01:15:07.151 --> 01:15:09.034 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I have any of that all up. 01:15:09.014 --> 01:15:18.574 [SPEAKER_03]: but it's like the whole idea of being able to bring someone through keeps you gives you a different understanding of what you're doing. 01:15:18.815 --> 01:15:26.230 [SPEAKER_03]: If you can kind of verbalize it and make someone be able to do it, you get more of a connection with what you're doing. 01:15:27.458 --> 01:15:27.658 [SPEAKER_00]: 100%. 01:15:27.718 --> 01:15:31.686 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's like learn one-do-one T-tone. 01:15:31.907 --> 01:15:32.828 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is. 01:15:33.189 --> 01:15:34.231 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I fucked it. 01:15:36.014 --> 01:15:38.680 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been watching the pit lately, and I think they say that. 01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:44.691 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the one show. 01:15:44.671 --> 01:15:58.214 [SPEAKER_03]: We watch the first season in Hillary's like in Hillary my wife is a nurse practitioner and she's been she's done a couple rounds and in in in those kinds of situations and she'll She says it's the most accurate by a mile. 01:15:58.254 --> 01:16:02.140 [SPEAKER_03]: There's only one thing and she talks she talked all of her co-workers 01:16:02.120 --> 01:16:14.651 [SPEAKER_03]: She says the only thing about it that they didn't understand was incorrect and it could have been, it was about a CPS call because they called trial protective services, you know, that their certain regulations are winning and what you do. 01:16:15.192 --> 01:16:19.723 [SPEAKER_03]: And there was, she was at a work talking with a social worker and they were all kind of like, 01:16:19.703 --> 01:16:36.902 [SPEAKER_03]: talking about one of the moments in whether or not you call the child protective services, but she ended up saying, the only thing that could have been a Pennsylvania state law versus a New York state law, she's like, there is nothing more, nothing more accurate than that show, and it's like they're all speaking in a foreign language. 01:16:37.203 --> 01:16:37.584 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:16:38.205 --> 01:16:38.505 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:16:38.545 --> 01:16:44.114 [SPEAKER_03]: So we had a we had a back off with Hillary was like when the second season came out I was like, are we gonna watch this now? 01:16:44.535 --> 01:16:47.539 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like it's a little I I'm a little too stressed out right now. 01:16:47.680 --> 01:16:48.060 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:16:48.080 --> 01:16:48.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:50.765 [SPEAKER_03]: Now it took her a few months and now we're kind of back on it. 01:16:50.805 --> 01:16:55.652 [SPEAKER_03]: We just watched some old woman get the impacted from constipation. 01:16:55.752 --> 01:16:57.996 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah. 01:16:57.976 --> 01:17:00.659 [SPEAKER_03]: let me tell you what's about to happen. 01:17:00.679 --> 01:17:11.790 [SPEAKER_03]: The best part is if you watch the pit with a nurse practitioner or a doctor that you can pause it and then they'll explain everything because they they just rip through everything. 01:17:12.471 --> 01:17:16.675 [SPEAKER_03]: But then when they know something's going to happen they're like, buckle up Junior. 01:17:17.015 --> 01:17:23.882 [SPEAKER_03]: You're about to see a dude put his finger up his little one's ass, 01:17:23.862 --> 01:17:45.347 [SPEAKER_00]: um yeah so so good um yeah so everything else is good yeah i've got i've got some really exciting stuff coming up let's hear about it um so i'm going to be giving a presentation in July and Colorado for the Colorado metal smithing association 01:17:45.327 --> 01:17:57.315 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to be like a presentation talk type thing and then I have a really exciting show coming up as well that I'm finally allowed to announce. 01:17:58.839 --> 01:18:03.690 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a group show in Australia. 01:18:03.670 --> 01:18:04.211 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 01:18:04.371 --> 01:18:06.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at a gallery called Baynard Gallery. 01:18:07.176 --> 01:18:14.188 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is like one of my absolute dream reach galleries and they are including me in a small work show. 01:18:14.308 --> 01:18:15.871 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm building two sculptures. 01:18:15.931 --> 01:18:24.546 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm currently building one, but after I'm working on one right now for the show and then I'm going to be designing and building another one as well. 01:18:25.047 --> 01:18:26.269 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go. 01:18:26.249 --> 01:18:43.395 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know, I know, I know, um, so we talked about it, Frank and I talked about going, um, the show's in Melbourne, um, but we really want to go to Japan this year. 01:18:44.817 --> 01:18:46.901 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we might do that instead. 01:18:47.401 --> 01:18:48.082 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm on my way. 01:18:48.563 --> 01:18:49.384 [SPEAKER_00]: When are you going? 01:18:49.785 --> 01:18:54.973 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going the end of the, the basically the second week of June. 01:18:55.426 --> 01:18:56.769 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, lovely. 01:18:56.809 --> 01:19:02.560 [SPEAKER_03]: And our daughter Lila has been there for actually we've been doing a couple episodes. 01:19:03.181 --> 01:19:07.670 [SPEAKER_03]: The time zones are, you know, so like right now she's going to be waking up soon. 01:19:08.151 --> 01:19:08.612 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:19:08.632 --> 01:19:16.067 [SPEAKER_03]: So I was able to figure out she called in and we did an episode of the full blast from the shot from Japan. 01:19:16.047 --> 01:19:32.132 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's having a blast and she's got friends visiting her and she's like finally feels she's been there for five weeks She finally feels like she has her area and she knows she's really good on the trains She said to me, she said to me, you know what they knew on the trains? 01:19:32.192 --> 01:19:32.673 [SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy. 01:19:33.334 --> 01:19:38.281 [SPEAKER_03]: They picked their nose But like people they they throw a whole finger up there. 01:19:38.361 --> 01:19:42.628 [SPEAKER_03]: She's like it is wild That was like the lab, so she's like 01:19:42.608 --> 01:19:58.896 [SPEAKER_03]: These motherfuckers are filled with whole finger up their nose on the train, but like other than that she's she does she's not home sick She's the only thing she says is she does miss pizza because she had pizza in Japan She's they put 01:19:58.876 --> 01:20:00.538 [SPEAKER_03]: Breathe cheese on there. 01:20:00.558 --> 01:20:02.881 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I thought I was going to go to the bathroom immediately. 01:20:02.921 --> 01:20:06.045 [SPEAKER_03]: She was like, I was going to die Yeah, cheese on a pizza fuck out of here. 01:20:07.507 --> 01:20:25.609 [SPEAKER_03]: So so she's she's she's having a blast and she's she's she's she's the one thing She was she has acknowledged is that if you aren't Instagram and you get all the Lafoody stuff and that these influencers are really selling it because 01:20:25.589 --> 01:20:29.557 [SPEAKER_03]: She's gone to a lot of those places and like the convenience stores. 01:20:29.898 --> 01:20:42.906 [SPEAKER_03]: She says they're fine Yeah, it's not like your brain's not gonna fall off when you have any of it so well a little bit overboard Instagram is is glazing the Japanese convenience stores a little bit too much 01:20:43.477 --> 01:20:49.783 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that she grew up with phenomenal chef for her house. 01:20:49.803 --> 01:21:12.943 [SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, I'm talking about, I mean, you see these, you know, it's just like, she's very aware that, you know, there's a lot of Instagram is a weird place and these influencers are, do you hear about these influencers want to Japan and then they got all this food that was famous and their videos, they're just spitting it out and just being incredibly disrespectful. 01:21:13.075 --> 01:21:31.877 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh no, this is like these dudes are all these influencers went over to Japan and they're trying everything out of them and they're they're spitting it all out and it's this like total hubbub because it's these small businesses and they're basically it's crazy it's crazy. 01:21:32.043 --> 01:21:53.646 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah oh my god that's awful terrible um i can't i yeah i don't know what the fuck is going on right now it feels like we're really hitting a place in society where i'm like oh oh well i'm hitting a new place in society where all of a sudden now i plan to the flag on forged butterfly knives and 01:21:53.879 --> 01:21:55.361 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what happened. 01:21:55.421 --> 01:21:56.523 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care for it. 01:21:56.823 --> 01:21:57.845 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you what happened. 01:21:57.865 --> 01:21:58.626 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you what happened. 01:21:59.166 --> 01:22:04.814 [SPEAKER_03]: Is Ben Sourer, I made, I was at his place and we were making friction folders with some of his friends. 01:22:05.575 --> 01:22:11.624 [SPEAKER_03]: And at one point, he'd made a friction folder, bottle opener, and he'd made it almost like a butterfly knife. 01:22:11.644 --> 01:22:14.888 [SPEAKER_03]: And then he said to me, he's like, you know, you really should make a butterfly knife. 01:22:15.008 --> 01:22:16.951 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought about it for a long time. 01:22:16.991 --> 01:22:23.380 [SPEAKER_03]: And I just last week, I just knocked one out, and I'm actually looking at the second one, 01:22:23.613 --> 01:22:25.218 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, you know what, fuck it. 01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:36.070 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I got a, some point you got to play at the flight with the forging to sometimes you got to plant the flag because otherwise, you know, you know what I'm saying I don't have to go to and do it, but, um, 01:22:36.269 --> 01:22:39.794 [SPEAKER_03]: I started and I went to the kid in the 1980s and 90s. 01:22:39.834 --> 01:22:45.582 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a, you know, divorce parents, you living in New York City, like everybody got a butterfly knife. 01:22:45.923 --> 01:22:56.438 [SPEAKER_03]: And I know a couple of bullshit tricks and I did these bullshit tricks and I'm now part of the the Bally song community, which are 01:22:56.418 --> 01:22:57.139 [SPEAKER_03]: Children. 01:22:57.680 --> 01:23:08.880 [SPEAKER_03]: They're doing all these tricks that we, we were just doing the clickety clack stuff, you know, clickety clack, clickety clack, flip it around, clickety clack, nothing crazy. 01:23:09.320 --> 01:23:14.950 [SPEAKER_03]: They come on these, I'm getting messages, I'm getting messages from real maniacs. 01:23:14.930 --> 01:23:22.040 [SPEAKER_03]: One guy offered to trade the belly song, the butterfly that I've made for a bar of silver. 01:23:22.621 --> 01:23:27.948 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, whoa, what do I look like, fucking, you know, my little Jack Sparrow? 01:23:29.010 --> 01:23:30.472 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, what am I doing here? 01:23:30.492 --> 01:23:34.698 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really going to trade me for a, it's the people are crazy. 01:23:35.259 --> 01:23:41.207 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I'm just, and the knife makers are all mad at me, not mad at me, but they're all like, 01:23:41.187 --> 01:23:43.592 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't, you know, I'm not going to lie. 01:23:43.612 --> 01:23:46.278 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think that you had it in you or something like that. 01:23:46.298 --> 01:23:46.398 [SPEAKER_03]: What? 01:23:46.418 --> 01:23:47.701 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't look like a fuck yourself. 01:23:47.721 --> 01:23:47.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 01:23:48.382 --> 01:23:48.643 [SPEAKER_03]: You know? 01:23:48.803 --> 01:23:49.585 [SPEAKER_03]: Jell is fine. 01:23:49.745 --> 01:23:51.449 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no. 01:23:51.469 --> 01:23:53.192 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think they were just surprised. 01:23:53.212 --> 01:23:58.043 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I'm supposed to be this old Jewish man like Larry Dave and all of a sudden, I don't know how to do anything. 01:23:58.063 --> 01:24:01.249 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm flipping or I'm a little thing around and everyone's shocked. 01:24:01.269 --> 01:24:02.031 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how to do it. 01:24:02.197 --> 01:24:08.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I must say I was really impressed by your, your butter knife or your butterfly knife skills. 01:24:08.127 --> 01:24:12.976 [SPEAKER_03]: I too clip, I think it could be clacks, I'm not being honest, and you know what I'm thinking of myself. 01:24:13.016 --> 01:24:20.308 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I don't, you know what, because when you're kid in the 80s, in the 90s, and you're just watching the TV, you're just, it's like a fidget spinner, right? 01:24:20.709 --> 01:24:22.011 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think it was something like that. 01:24:21.991 --> 01:24:42.042 [SPEAKER_03]: I can do a couple moves, you know I can do a couple moves and I got him and it's like somebody said you must be practicing like dude it's like a riding a bike once you know how to do a couple clickety clacks you don't forget it you know so you get it back in your hands I had the action to actually just shock you like good so the funny thing is something to miss all well now maybe I better learn a couple new tricks 01:24:42.022 --> 01:24:55.767 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm watching these guys, and I'm just like there's these kids like in their shorts and in back yard with bad lighting and they're just doing these fidget spinner things and I'm like, I can't do this. 01:24:55.887 --> 01:24:56.608 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not doing this. 01:24:57.269 --> 01:24:59.814 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll do my couple clickety clacks and be done with it. 01:25:00.415 --> 01:25:04.823 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's hilarious because now all of a sudden I'm part of this wacko community. 01:25:05.343 --> 01:25:07.166 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's beautiful. 01:25:09.390 --> 01:25:12.375 [SPEAKER_03]: However, it kind of makes me want to look. 01:25:12.395 --> 01:25:15.039 [SPEAKER_03]: They're actually, they're pretty cool. 01:25:15.119 --> 01:25:25.697 [SPEAKER_03]: And actually, the friction folders, what I've had problems with making the friction folders, really the forging friction folders, has allowed me to figure out how to do these in a way that they're 01:25:25.677 --> 01:25:29.684 [SPEAKER_03]: they're pretty fast to make and they're pretty fun so I don't know. 01:25:29.904 --> 01:25:38.298 [SPEAKER_03]: I only think there's going to be a John's time on butterfly life folder but that class but that maybe maybe Pat maybe Pat now talk and talk it over. 01:25:39.561 --> 01:25:41.203 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you imagine making a leap? 01:25:41.284 --> 01:25:41.985 [SPEAKER_03]: What else can we make? 01:25:42.085 --> 01:25:43.628 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to make bongs. 01:25:43.728 --> 01:25:47.314 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean it's like butterfly and I have some bond class. 01:25:47.915 --> 01:25:49.778 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to help those. 01:25:49.758 --> 01:25:50.199 [SPEAKER_00]: fun. 01:25:51.101 --> 01:25:51.982 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, great. 01:25:52.002 --> 01:25:52.684 [SPEAKER_03]: You can do it. 01:25:52.704 --> 01:25:53.485 [SPEAKER_03]: You can do it. 01:25:53.545 --> 01:25:54.467 [SPEAKER_03]: You can do it. 01:25:54.808 --> 01:25:57.233 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what our collaboration classes. 01:25:58.174 --> 01:26:00.299 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Jeff, butterfly knives and bonks. 01:26:00.499 --> 01:26:01.401 [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to call it. 01:26:01.501 --> 01:26:05.168 [SPEAKER_03]: I had I had Nick Ross going to awhile ago. 01:26:05.148 --> 01:26:08.093 [SPEAKER_03]: And we were talking about doing class. 01:26:08.193 --> 01:26:13.422 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like, you know, I've always wanted to do a, he said, I always wanted to do like a juvenile delinquents class. 01:26:14.243 --> 01:26:17.128 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, yeah, he goes again, we're going to make num chucks. 01:26:17.208 --> 01:26:18.671 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to eat pizza and smoke cigarettes. 01:26:19.913 --> 01:26:21.696 [SPEAKER_03]: And that sounds like such a great class. 01:26:21.756 --> 01:26:26.284 [SPEAKER_03]: The juvenile delinquents class sounds so much fun. 01:26:26.985 --> 01:26:28.307 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, it would be funny. 01:26:28.688 --> 01:26:29.790 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be a funny class. 01:26:29.890 --> 01:26:31.172 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm telling you, 01:26:31.152 --> 01:26:36.482 [SPEAKER_03]: So many said to me, you need to teach me to make this and I'm just like, bro, I'm gonna charge you a fucking lot. 01:26:36.602 --> 01:26:40.128 [SPEAKER_03]: You, if you want me to teach you how to make this, man, I'm gonna make it hurt. 01:26:40.910 --> 01:26:43.334 [SPEAKER_03]: Because this is juvenile liquids, you're gonna rob you. 01:26:43.775 --> 01:26:44.556 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 01:26:44.577 --> 01:26:45.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Just that chains. 01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:48.403 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna snatch a chains and we're gonna be making this shit. 01:26:48.884 --> 01:26:53.633 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's what the youth needs right now, too, is like a little bit of like... 01:26:53.613 --> 01:27:16.161 [SPEAKER_00]: a little bit of being bad, I don't know, not to encourage it, but like, Frank keeps being like, I'm really, really worried these young kids aren't like partying or doing, like they're, you know, like playing with fidget spinners instead of butterfly knives, you know, that's why we are our generation and they're like, they don't, they don't party, they don't hang out, they're not friends, it's very weird. 01:27:16.225 --> 01:27:20.332 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that being subversive is very important. 01:27:21.074 --> 01:27:25.642 [SPEAKER_03]: I think to being subversive is I think having a little subversiveness is important. 01:27:26.042 --> 01:27:28.927 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if it wasn't for subversive, they would never have punk music. 01:27:29.208 --> 01:27:36.681 [SPEAKER_03]: You would have had the clash, you wouldn't have had the great music of our time with a lot of a little bit of subversiveness, so you know. 01:27:36.661 --> 01:27:37.482 [SPEAKER_03]: I would do it. 01:27:37.642 --> 01:27:38.303 [SPEAKER_03]: I would do it. 01:27:38.323 --> 01:27:40.265 [SPEAKER_03]: I would do the juvenile delinquent class. 01:27:40.485 --> 01:27:40.946 [SPEAKER_03]: I would do it. 01:27:41.326 --> 01:27:42.267 [SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, you're more robbier. 01:27:42.768 --> 01:27:45.091 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's part of the thing. 01:27:45.111 --> 01:27:45.751 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm more robbier. 01:27:45.771 --> 01:27:47.313 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you ain't going to feel it. 01:27:47.333 --> 01:27:48.134 [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to feel it. 01:27:48.394 --> 01:27:49.195 [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to feel it. 01:27:49.456 --> 01:27:51.538 [SPEAKER_03]: When I gave you the bill, you're going to feel it. 01:27:51.558 --> 01:27:53.721 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an all-in-compassing experience. 01:27:53.741 --> 01:27:54.161 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 01:27:54.201 --> 01:27:57.265 [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to feel like you've been chained, snatched on the foretrain. 01:27:57.585 --> 01:27:58.266 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm going to get you. 01:27:58.746 --> 01:27:59.307 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, mug you. 01:27:59.687 --> 01:28:00.829 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, mug you for this class. 01:28:00.909 --> 01:28:01.269 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it. 01:28:01.710 --> 01:28:02.130 [SPEAKER_03]: Forget it. 01:28:02.651 --> 01:28:03.752 [SPEAKER_03]: It says those all there is to it. 01:28:03.792 --> 01:28:04.553 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like you're going to pay. 01:28:04.833 --> 01:28:06.415 [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to peel the pain. 01:28:06.395 --> 01:28:08.658 [SPEAKER_00]: I could see being truly transformative. 01:28:09.019 --> 01:28:09.720 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, totally. 01:28:09.740 --> 01:28:14.207 [SPEAKER_03]: You can completely yeah, and it's gonna be like I had such a great time this class before that. 01:28:14.227 --> 01:28:16.250 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I got robbed I got robbed. 01:28:16.550 --> 01:28:17.252 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean boy. 01:28:17.492 --> 01:28:18.213 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god me. 01:28:18.373 --> 01:28:22.700 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god me, but we did make some cool friction of some some some butterfly dies. 01:28:23.161 --> 01:28:23.922 [SPEAKER_03]: Jesus Christ. 01:28:24.463 --> 01:28:26.766 [SPEAKER_03]: I really did feel like I got fucking I got alluded 01:28:30.155 --> 01:28:31.036 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what you got into. 01:28:31.376 --> 01:28:34.500 [SPEAKER_03]: If it's going to be a subversive class, it's got to be you're right. 01:28:34.580 --> 01:28:36.242 [SPEAKER_03]: It's got to be all encompassing. 01:28:36.503 --> 01:28:36.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:28:37.183 --> 01:28:37.384 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:28:37.484 --> 01:28:39.606 [SPEAKER_03]: So, well, that sounds amazing. 01:28:39.666 --> 01:28:41.749 [SPEAKER_03]: The Australia's going to be amazing. 01:28:42.450 --> 01:28:42.770 [SPEAKER_03]: You know? 01:28:42.990 --> 01:28:44.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wish I could go. 01:28:45.734 --> 01:28:49.578 [SPEAKER_00]: But I, I can't do it all, you know? 01:28:49.618 --> 01:28:50.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know. 01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:57.748 [SPEAKER_03]: I got to like, I got to check my limitations a little bit and you got to get those tickets soon before the gas prices turn out like a disaster area. 01:28:57.728 --> 01:29:05.116 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're thinking about going to Japan and the fall, but we should get our ticket soon. 01:29:05.296 --> 01:29:09.461 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're, you know, it's just that like last year, I traveled so much for work. 01:29:10.582 --> 01:29:20.534 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always asking Frank to like come do these things that are very blacksmithy oriented. 01:29:20.554 --> 01:29:20.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 01:29:20.934 --> 01:29:23.096 [SPEAKER_00]: And we got to do one. 01:29:23.137 --> 01:29:24.478 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to do one for Frank. 01:29:24.458 --> 01:29:26.160 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what you should do for Frank? 01:29:26.440 --> 01:29:30.344 [SPEAKER_03]: You should take him to Barcelona and take him, take him, take him, we should take the class with us. 01:29:30.384 --> 01:29:31.825 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll make it, we'll make a chef knife. 01:29:32.726 --> 01:29:35.129 [SPEAKER_03]: Our class is filled up, but I'm gonna be going back next year. 01:29:35.709 --> 01:29:37.971 [SPEAKER_03]: And every year I go see my brother. 01:29:38.052 --> 01:29:48.562 [SPEAKER_03]: And I talk to Toma every day because the next, just went to the NBA Eastern Conference Finals. 01:29:48.602 --> 01:29:52.626 [SPEAKER_03]: They whip the kick, they're living shit at a Philadelphia. 01:29:52.606 --> 01:29:59.355 [SPEAKER_03]: And all I do is I get these messages of love and hope for me, which is like shock me sometimes. 01:30:00.036 --> 01:30:05.203 [SPEAKER_03]: We are like, I mean, he's like, he was on his birthday, that the next close out to 76ers. 01:30:05.443 --> 01:30:06.384 [SPEAKER_03]: It was an early game. 01:30:06.404 --> 01:30:09.328 [SPEAKER_03]: He was like the greatest gift I ever got, and it's hilarious. 01:30:09.348 --> 01:30:13.394 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a very good chance there might be, I don't know about it, maybe not. 01:30:13.414 --> 01:30:19.542 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think in July they're going to be, but I have a very funny relationship with him. 01:30:19.522 --> 01:30:26.990 [SPEAKER_00]: I have just recently connected with Tomor because I found his work out in the world. 01:30:27.671 --> 01:30:28.152 [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing. 01:30:28.793 --> 01:30:29.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:30:30.054 --> 01:30:32.417 [SPEAKER_00]: Frank and I really love this. 01:30:32.817 --> 01:30:36.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Michelin Star, Korean restaurant that we've been. 01:30:36.621 --> 01:30:38.003 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been there three times now. 01:30:38.724 --> 01:30:41.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Called Saul and San Francisco. 01:30:41.527 --> 01:30:52.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure enough, the amazing Colby dish comes out and They give me this knife and I'm like this is a beautiful steak knife And I look at it. 01:30:52.990 --> 01:30:54.753 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like flarring team kitchen knives. 01:30:54.773 --> 01:30:55.615 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go. 01:30:56.136 --> 01:30:59.282 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I and I also thought it was really cool because 01:30:59.262 --> 01:31:03.551 [SPEAKER_00]: They give you a menu at the end of the meal, like with all the, you know, what you ate. 01:31:03.752 --> 01:31:14.875 [SPEAKER_00]: And on the backside, it has all of the, um, all of the whole list of every, um, studio and maker of every artisanal. 01:31:14.855 --> 01:31:31.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Plateware, dishware, knife, and so I took a picture of it and sent it to him and was like Used one of your knives at this phenomenal restaurant and like it's very cool that your name is on this menu and He was pretty stoked by that, but I was sure 01:31:31.865 --> 01:31:34.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would love to go to Barcelona. 01:31:35.390 --> 01:31:39.156 [SPEAKER_03]: He is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. 01:31:39.196 --> 01:31:41.199 [SPEAKER_03]: He's one of the smartest guys in the life game. 01:31:42.021 --> 01:31:47.309 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's really become, I mean, we say, when I say he's a like a brother, he's really like a brother. 01:31:47.349 --> 01:31:51.755 [SPEAKER_03]: I talked to his dad and like it's become a really, really wonderful relationship. 01:31:51.776 --> 01:31:54.740 [SPEAKER_03]: But he's don't sleep on quarantine kitchens. 01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:56.683 [SPEAKER_03]: They're all, I mean, you're up for get it. 01:31:56.803 --> 01:31:57.965 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you're all over the place. 01:31:57.985 --> 01:31:58.866 [SPEAKER_03]: It's fantastic. 01:31:58.906 --> 01:31:59.948 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so happy for him. 01:32:00.721 --> 01:32:04.787 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the work is phenomenal, um, they're absolutely beautiful. 01:32:05.168 --> 01:32:08.614 [SPEAKER_00]: So um, yeah, I wouldn't keep catching those. 01:32:08.994 --> 01:32:09.615 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to. 01:32:09.996 --> 01:32:11.839 [SPEAKER_03]: But you know what, he's phenomenal, you're phenomenal. 01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:13.862 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so happy for him. 01:32:13.882 --> 01:32:15.404 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so happy that you did this class. 01:32:15.865 --> 01:32:19.050 [SPEAKER_03]: And I gotta tell you, it was a very brave decision. 01:32:19.030 --> 01:32:23.698 [SPEAKER_03]: because it's a big undertaking getting everybody over the finish line with a project like that. 01:32:23.738 --> 01:32:27.004 [SPEAKER_03]: That was a that was a massive ordeal. 01:32:27.245 --> 01:32:32.675 [SPEAKER_03]: And I say ordeal in a positive way, but that was not that was not an off the risk class. 01:32:33.055 --> 01:32:35.740 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that was a real labor love. 01:32:35.855 --> 01:32:52.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was kind of crazy, and I did say to Pat, I was like, dude, I feel like every time I come here, the story is that I'm just like frantically trying to accomplish some ambitious thing because like, 01:32:52.527 --> 01:33:04.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, that's just how I roll, we're like, I'll go for a residency and then just like get it in my head that I'm building a sculpture in two weeks and I'd like just need to be there every moment of every day. 01:33:04.927 --> 01:33:07.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but uh, he was like, no, it's it's good. 01:33:08.433 --> 01:33:17.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I think my chaos is, uh, they help me like focus and control it. 01:33:17.468 --> 01:33:40.523 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm standing yeah well I cannot thank you enough for being here it's always a pleasure your fantastic I'm really happy for you congratulations and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do next yeah thank you thank you so much for having me Jeff it's always such a pleasure to catch up with you and to check in and 01:33:40.790 --> 01:33:45.218 [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoy our conversations so look at you look at us. 01:33:45.338 --> 01:33:51.148 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do bombs and butterfly and I'd like to have a pat on the butterfly and I was in the next class. 01:33:51.809 --> 01:33:53.171 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you shaking his head right now? 01:33:53.191 --> 01:33:55.255 [SPEAKER_03]: You shake his head but then all of a sudden it's just like... 01:33:55.640 --> 01:33:59.066 [SPEAKER_03]: bet we can sell that fucker out. 01:33:59.086 --> 01:33:59.647 [SPEAKER_03]: You're right. 01:34:00.368 --> 01:34:00.949 [SPEAKER_03]: You're right. 01:34:01.290 --> 01:34:02.372 [SPEAKER_03]: Think you're right guys. 01:34:02.752 --> 01:34:04.155 [SPEAKER_03]: Go follow the air patch. 01:34:04.816 --> 01:34:05.617 [SPEAKER_03]: You know where she is. 01:34:05.678 --> 01:34:06.900 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to link it in the vio. 01:34:07.381 --> 01:34:12.089 [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to support the podcast or send us messages, you can go to full blast podcast on Instagram. 01:34:12.109 --> 01:34:12.850 [SPEAKER_03]: That's where we all are. 01:34:13.672 --> 01:34:17.098 [SPEAKER_03]: And we will see you next week. 01:34:17.398 --> 01:34:18.300 [SPEAKER_03]: Leah, thank you so much. 01:34:18.620 --> 01:34:19.622 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Jeff.