[SPEAKER_05]: Hello, and welcome to Comics Versus, a Laura Hound's podcast, I'm Alicia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Jean, and we're here to ask the question of what if...
[SPEAKER_05]: In this episode, we're specifically talking about season three of the Marvel animated alternate reality show.
[SPEAKER_05]: To catch up, we definitely encourage you to go back and check out our recap episodes for seasons one and two, which are linked in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to start today with some spoiler-free hot takes, which might include spoilers from the first two seasons for anyone considering whether they want to watch the final season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, we're going to recap the episodes, talk about what we like, and what it all means for the bigger MCU picture going into the final phase of the Marvel Multiverse era.
[SPEAKER_05]: Stick around until the end to hear about our upcoming Marvel DC and other coverage.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, so let's, we, we have eight episodes to talk about.
[SPEAKER_05]: So let's get right into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Spoiler free hot takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think of this season?
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed the singular episodes more than I enjoyed the overall story that they would tell you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there were standout episodes for me that I will watch over and over again most likely.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I felt like the story underneath all the things that they
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that it was the weakest of the three seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought this was a fun wrap-up.
[SPEAKER_05]: It did feel a little more slight to me than the first two seasons, but there was some excellent lore and I thought, you know, it put a nice little bow around the story.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hated that they, again, like last year, did the daily drops between December 23rd and 29th.
[SPEAKER_03]: You do like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really think that it hurt the show doing that these past two seasons because who has time to watch a new episode every day over the holidays, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for adults, it's for
[SPEAKER_05]: We watched Doctor Who together.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was one episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that was doable.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but yeah, so I actually was expecting nine episodes this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just had it in my head that was going to be nine episodes like the last two seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: Until we're almost done with episode eight.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, this really feels like it's wrapping up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what they can possibly do in the next episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then in the end, I was like, oh, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, it was a fun season.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a fun season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, who would you recommend this season or this series, too?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, anyone actually, I don't think you need to be well-versed with Marvel, um, lower characters, previous stories to enjoy any of these season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some of the things my fly over once had, but I just felt like the episodes that I really liked from this season were just so cool and fun that it wouldn't, you wouldn't need to know much about the overall MCU in order to enjoy what you're watching on this room.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would definitely recommend for anyone who enjoys animation, who enjoys superhero
[SPEAKER_01]: on to check it out because it's, yeah, it's just fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I think if there are some episodes that I would say, you can just watch that episode, not having seen anything else, even if it's a continuation of a previous episode, like for instance, the one with Howard the Duck this season, that was picking up on something that happened in another season, but you don't need to know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some of them, though, like, this season finale stuff of any of the seasons that's definitely building, that's pulling together story from previous episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you don't have to have watched the rest of Marvel, but to watch the season finale of the various seasons, it's probably best you've watched.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think you need to, like you said, watch the other Marvel shows or movies to enjoy the episodes from what if.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I mean, and I'm saying some of them, you don't even need to watch to the other episodes of this show, but you're right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: What were your favorite episodes this season?
[SPEAKER_01]: Spoiler.
[SPEAKER_01]: 23.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, two was the Agatha one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agatha and can go and run E and Red Guardian.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is the three here?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess minus two also, no surprise.
[SPEAKER_05]: I get the old Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, please sign me up.
[SPEAKER_05]: And and I think the other one was four with like yeah, yeah, we got we got a really strong couple surprisingly so especially making up for a certain movie for my childhood and we got a new character that I think is really interesting other we saw that character more later in the season right we have birdie that is for anyone who's heard of birdie.
[SPEAKER_05]: I probably the show overall for me had somewhat diminishing returns per season, although that's not necessarily fair because some of my all-time faves were last season and also, yeah, there were some really, those two were real standouts for me this season as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, and I always, I love cohorty the original character, you know, I love birdy now the original character.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think this show has added a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it has, it has not a cohort we forget to have a comic, so that's just really cool stuff too, but um Yeah, I think the show did a great job of highlighting different characters and showing what storytelling can be, you know, by flipping things around, which is what a lot of formula has always been, so um yeah, just I felt like
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this season's overarching story was not the strongest of the three, but I'm still enjoying less.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And apparently people generally agreed with that because it got an 81% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So for this season, for this season, it is so.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, any other spoiler three spoiler free thoughts you want to throw out before we get
[SPEAKER_01]: No, just some, again, lots of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some, you know, howling laugh, laughing out loud moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I enjoy it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, my eight-year-old was up early each day saying it's time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, take it from the mouth of a babe, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, yeah, you'll enjoy it if you give it a shot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think there's a minimum wage for the show for kids?
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm, yes, I do, I think eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: might be a good starting point because he hasn't watched fully the first two seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: They came out when he was, you know, like what six, five, seven, so he's watched clips of those, but he hasn't, he has yet to watch the entire an entire episode from one of those first seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the first time that we've actually sat down
[SPEAKER_01]: um phase is a good um starting job and off play at least for mine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah okay yeah of course it mileage may vary depending on that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah yeah I was always I was had a permissive of parents when it came to that but I'm glad because and I love horror movies now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah there you go.
[SPEAKER_05]: No
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, so that is our spoiler free hot takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: If that's all you wanted to hear, then this is your opportunity to jump out because we're about to get into the season itself.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to be, we're going to talk through briefly, each of the eight episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just we're going to recap the plots and what happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to be borrowing some amended recaps from Wikipedia's.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thank you and do send Wikipedia financial support.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you can, they make all of our lives richer and easier, also as podcasts, there's, but just as people's home too, just to run through some of the background information.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the head writer, this season is Matthew Chancy, who is taking over from AC Bradley, and Chancy wrote a bunch of our favorite previous episodes, like the Star Lord
[SPEAKER_05]: And he also wrote episodes for Ms. Marvel, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love the show, so.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I mean, love that show.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Ryan Little was also heavily involved in creating the stories for this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: He worked on a lot of Marvel stuff in various capacities, but this is his second set of writing credits after I am Groot, which has a watch you across over.
[SPEAKER_05]: The directors, yeah, I am Groot, by the way, that is for like little babies.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's cute.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the director's a season is Brian Andrews, who's been the head director for most seasons.
[SPEAKER_05]: Most of the series, Stephen Frank, did one episode last season, the Nebula and the Nova Corpse episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this season, he did half of them, episodes one, four, five, seven and co-directed six.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's because Brian Andrews was also busy directing Marvel Zombies episodes, which we're going to talk more about Marvel Zombies in our MCU, 20, 25 preview episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: looking for it to that one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you have Stephen Frank though he also worked in the art and animation departments of productions like Iron Giant and into the Spider-Verse, so strong animation pedigree.
[SPEAKER_05]: The animation was done by flying bark productions and stellar creative lab and the head of animation was Scott Wright.
[SPEAKER_05]: So episode one, what if the Hulk fought
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to give us our plot summary?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: In an attempt to rid himself of the hub, Bruce Banner, bombard himself with a huge amount of gamma radiation, accidentally resulting in the birth of a monster's creature known as the apex, a rampaging caudon.
[SPEAKER_01]: capable of creating an army of gamma monsters.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Avengers create enormous mechas to counter the threat, but outnumbered and killed.
[SPEAKER_01]: The surviving heroes Sam Wilson, Captain America, Monica Rambo, a cleaned up Bucky Barnes, Mark Spector the Moon Knight, Red Guardian Alexey, Malena of Wokus, Wokus, Vashtakov.
[SPEAKER_01]: Vashtakov, there we go, Shang-Shi in the Kia from Wakanda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually repel the gamma monsters for the next 10 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the apex reemergence, a reluctant Wilson seeks help from Banner, who lives in hiding on a remote island.
[SPEAKER_01]: Banner refuses to get involved, though he provides Wilson with the money of venture protocol, which he originally created to stop the hook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Using the protocol, the heroes and mechs combine into one powerful mech.
[SPEAKER_01]: The apex is still too much for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Banner decides to assist the team and uses a gamma bomb to become a Godzilla-like mega-hook.
[SPEAKER_01]: He kills the apex and heads towards New York with his army.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, Sam Wilson reminds him of their friendship, prompting Banner to lead the remaining gamma monsters to his island where he becomes the new ruler.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I call them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Hulk'szilla and really quick just for everyone out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I live in Brooklyn, New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: You might hear my radiator in the background.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the radiator folks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to say warm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm already sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever feel a lot of stuff here?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't want to deal with the cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you might be hearing a little hissing sounds in the background, but it's a good old New York City radiator heating are home.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we don't want to jump to cold, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think about this one?
[SPEAKER_01]: To open up the season?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I, I didn't, I liked it more than I thought because this isn't one like I'm not one of the ones that's into the, I don't know, mech battle sort of thing like I, you know, it can be cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just not, you know, necessarily my particular subgenre that I'm into, but I thought that this was a fun episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: I loved the retro style opening like that they had that animation within the animation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they showed us about like the Avengers history in this universe in that way.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was really smart and really cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like to see some variation in the animation.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, what did you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I was pleasantly surprised that I liked it as much as I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think it was, you know, super duper, but I thought it was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I give it a, it was solid, it was, it's what what if is really about, if I can say it that way, you know, what if it's supposed to be out there concepts, you know, things that you would never think of.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never thought I would see, you know, a hugzilla, so really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish that they had made, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: the monster Hulk a little bit more Hulk than Godzilla.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my only quibble with how they portrayed you know, better, um, new persona.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was a little, a little missed that because it felt more like I'm watching Godzilla than I was watching the Hulk, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, but overall, I thought it was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought on that front that I liked the parallel, for example, with Loki, you know, that he becomes the guardian, he has to give up his life to protect everyone else.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now, that's basically how we see Bruce ending this episode, with his mega-hulk, goes to the critical.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I, you know what I like what if episodes when they do start with like a definite point that we recognize and lip it and you know, and riff from there.
[SPEAKER_05]: So here we got that famous on your left meeting where cap meets his new bestie, but in this case, it's not Steve Rogers meeting Sam Wilson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sam Wilson's cap meeting Bruce better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was that was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another nice little twist right there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I have to point out that so Bruce starts to go to Sam's therapy, but if
[SPEAKER_05]: his therapy taught Bruce that he needs to sever his dark side that if that's what Bruce walks away thinking then that was some shit therapy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, Sam is not going to talk to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how we had a lot of problems.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not the guy you want to, you know, having a emotional heart to heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: He might not give you the best advice and how to follow through.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because yeah, that was whack.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was really whack.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then we wouldn't have gotten the dawn of the gamma war, and that's just a, that should be the title of a movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It should be a title of a movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought it was a cool origin story for this apex and it's legions, you know, a gamma removal gone wrong and yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was a really cool premise and it wasn't necessarily another of us listed as our favorite episode, but it was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it was fine for what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, I just wish that the Hulk was more, Hulk Ziller was more Hulk than Ziller.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: Nah, that's really about it, and I think even E was just like, ah, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So should we move on to our favorite?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if Agatha went to Hollywood?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I could the Harkness plans to enact a magical ritual to siphon the power of Tiamma.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Celestial buried in the Earth's core.
[SPEAKER_01]: In order to do so, she becomes an actress during the Golden Age of Hollywood, in stars and films directed by Howard Stark.
[SPEAKER_01]: Harkness has stark cast Kingo, the final eternal she needs for her spell to work, as she has already taken the other eternal powers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kingo reveals that he knows of Harkness's true plans.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the size to help after she pretends her desires to save the world and agrees to release their terminals once the ritual is complete.
[SPEAKER_01]: Witnessing King Go's betrayal, Arisham decides to destroy the Earth, motivating Harkness and King Go to enact the ritual upon the Celestials arrival.
[SPEAKER_01]: With help from start and Edwin Jarvis, Harkness takes King Go's in Tiamets Power and becomes the Celestials.
[SPEAKER_01]: After defeating Arisham, King Go convinces Harkness to give up the Celestials Power in favor of joining him in the movie business for real.
[SPEAKER_01]: During the premiere of their movie, Cosmic Queen, Cosmic Queen, this is so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kingo knows that the release eternals are worried that Aresha's defeat has drawn the other celestial's attention, but hawkless and shurism, that they can be staged for the sequel.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: And why did you like this episode so much?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, just, it was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dancing, sequences, the singing sequences, I had E next to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were both like, oh, this is so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the visual style, just everything about it was really cool to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: And her transformation into this, you know, celestial,
[SPEAKER_01]: fighting Irish him.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was spectacle.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That really was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: The back and for us, yeah, we can go with a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would start being like this, how would he use type of character?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really cool as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was
[SPEAKER_01]: um, the writing was crisp.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, really in tune with the period that they were trying to portray, um, again, I think that again, you know, the singing and the dancing, I didn't know I would enjoy that much that whole scene, you know, when they're going back and forth, that was, that was just really great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the back and forth like that was definitely a Bollywood influence thing, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Michael Jackson's beat it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was very cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, my only nitpick is that I felt like the animation of the dance sequences showed some animation shortcuts being taken, but that's just really like nitpicking.
[SPEAKER_05]: This was, I felt like this, this episode was literally made for me, we've got
[SPEAKER_05]: Agatha, we've got the internals, we've got old Hollywood, you know, we've got those, those references to Bogie, Gabel, Carrie Grant, no, Kino.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that just also like, we know Kino's been this movie star for whatever one thinks is generations, you know, they don't realize it's the same guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this just paints like what a big deal he is was, you know, up alongside those others.
[SPEAKER_05]: I always love to see Jarvis back.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was cool that they, you know, were combining the witchcraft with the Celestials.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of several times a season where they're like, let's combine these different sorts of powers together and maybe achieve something greater through that.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll talk about that more for at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just, yeah, the visuals,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was really fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, be it, excuse me, all the micro fans when it is how I was thinking of Thriller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, for the song and the video.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have that in your, and you have that image in your mind, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the back and forth.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I don't know if this was intentional because I know you know old Hollywood Agatha was doing a sort of like old Hollywood glam look, but the way she was dressed with a big head dress reminded me of certain depictions I've seen of the horror Babylon, which is a biblical reference and I'm no Bible scholar, but
[SPEAKER_05]: Basically, like in the book of revelations, it is said that the quote-unquote horror of Babylon who sort of wants to be queen of the universe and basically symbolizes Western powers like Rome, that
[SPEAKER_05]: that she would be defeated basically and and destroyed and that's his destruction of battle on but anyway and that's kind of there's some parallel to what happened in this although Kingo of course helped her avert that fate at the end so I don't know if that's intentional but I thought I'd shout it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but it did notice.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if Kingel got his way, like of course, you know, we're like, I get the bad, but if Kingel got his way, he would be protecting the being that would destroy the, the earth and the emergence.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm like, I don't know who to, I don't know who to root for here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I know she's going to do something wrong, but
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, that's the thing with what they turnals.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from what we know in the MCU, and now that they know what they know, I'm talking about from the movie, how does that play out, you know, right, but then this what if maybe they don't have an affinity for the planet as we learned in the movie that they clearly do have an affinity for the planet.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Kingel must because he's still doing that home movie star thing, but then again, we always see Kingel running away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, basically.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why he's the last eternal standing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so because of that, Arsham, who's the celestial who, like, is their boss, put him in charge.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he knows about team up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now he knows that they're actually robots.
[SPEAKER_05]: These things that only the prime eternal knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: materializes in Earth's space.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how cool was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, that was just so, that was just awesome, that was just awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And as school Agatha collected the eternal powers and said there in storage.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then okay, so at toward the end, with King O's blessing, she took his power without killing him.
[SPEAKER_05]: But he didn't blast her for her to take it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this contradicts Agatha all along rules.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I'm just, you know, probably this is written at the same time or before that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So just go look through my fingers at that.
[SPEAKER_05]: it's a what if it's a what if yeah and there's other little things I was like you know they kept filming you know how I'm how it is just loving all of this actual celestial battle going on and he just keeps filming and filming I'm like don't you need to change film rules
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he is Howard Stark, so you don't know what kind of film he had in the camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's true.
[UNKNOWN]: No, it's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: I watch a lot of movies about movies, and they genuinely do, and the way this does, like, movies change the world by changing people.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to be feared.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can be adored.
[SPEAKER_05]: Celestial Agatha is truly a star.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she was.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the cheesy ending worked for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just perfect for that genre that they were going for in that episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they were very true to this period that they were trying to portray.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I appreciated that, I thought it was well done.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then we got that T's more celestial's we're arriving.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was disappointed that we didn't get more of this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought we would get more of this story later, especially since I saw a later episode was called Had a Merchant in the title.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's a co, oh, it's not, no more Agatha.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, yeah, yeah, I thought I definitely thought that there was something for the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that made the end of the season hit a little less for me just because I was anticipating this other ending to the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, oh, no, it's a we want a lot to story in this wraps up other stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it feels like we dropped this other really interesting shiny ball that you showed to me at the beginning of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I thought was a better story person could have been a better story.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I wonder if that was going to be the ending and then they're like, well, actually, you're not going to get another season after this, so you better wrap up the whole series and like, oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be unfortunate if it's that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it does feel like they just kind of burn this off at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: When we talk about the MCU preview, we're getting a lot of animation this year that's been worked on for a while.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like they're just kind of burning it off because maybe other than X-Men 97, I don't know that the animation is doing as well as they'd hoped.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although, don't release it in December over the holidays one day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, TV so crowded these days though.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much, there's so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I took a look at the show track.
[SPEAKER_05]: mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I stopped even making suggestions for because I'm like, it's too full.
[SPEAKER_05]: My own private list is too full.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a clutter year.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, any more thoughts on episode two?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, just watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't watch any any episode make this the one that you watch for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Indeed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you don't really need to watch any others with this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can just watch this one as a standalone.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a good place to take a quick break.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when we come back, we'll talk about Jones' other favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then my other favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: See you at a sec.
[SPEAKER_05]: Episode 3 What If The Red Guardian Stopped The Winter Soldier?
[SPEAKER_05]: So in 1991, Alexe Shostakov and Bucky Barnes, as the winter soldier, are sent to recover a case of super-soldier serum from Howard and Maria Stark.
[SPEAKER_05]: Shostakov prevents Barnes from killing the stars and they only acquire one vile of the serum.
[SPEAKER_05]: With no extraction, the duo tracks an American sleeper agent called The Rook to Las Vegas for
[SPEAKER_05]: and Dr. Bill Foster, aka Goliath, head of the Shield Science Division.
[SPEAKER_05]: Drake-off secretly orders Barnes to kill Shostakov, who has become a liability.
[SPEAKER_05]: In Las Vegas, Shostakov and Barnes discover that the rook is Obedaya Stain, who provides the Russians with information about the serum in order to eliminate the
[SPEAKER_05]: Staying attacks the duo, but it's killed by Barnes, as the authorities in a task force sent by the Red Room swarm the area, Barnes by Showskov who destroys the last file of the serum time to escape.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sometime later, Barnes has taken back to Hydro's base in Siberia, where he insists to drag off the Showskov's dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, Foster approaches Showskov and offers him a chance to help the United States once again.
[SPEAKER_05]: 21 years later, Showskov has seen fighting alongside the Avengers in the Battle of New York.
[SPEAKER_01]: this was so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this was so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Greg Guardian.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, he's just, it should be an every movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Put David Harbor and all of them, put all the movies, put him in all the movies because he, he brings, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: The Thor character, the Chris Evans, Thor character, Chris Evans, was his name, the Chris Evans word, Chris Evans word.
[SPEAKER_01]: His Thor character brings a levity to the movies, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Reguardian brings a similar level of hilarity too.
[SPEAKER_01]: the scene and I just want to see more of that, you know, I want to see more of him because I think he's great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm looking to the Thunderbolts for that reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, for that reason, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a cool buddy, you know, on the road type of adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is the second of my favorite episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just liked the back and forth, the him and Bucky had, how they, you know, his soul, he was so, what's the word I'm looking for?
[SPEAKER_01]: This illusion, or he had such a view of the world
[SPEAKER_01]: and for it to come down the way that it came down was really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really cool to see how when he bust into the, into the stage office and he realized that stage is not, you know, trying to overthrow the government, you know, and that his own government is partaking in the spoils of capitalism.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what, you know, or it's just like, yeah, it's great stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, he's David Harbor was so brilliant at delivering such a range of personas too, but this red guardian persona is a lot of fun and And teaming it up with someone stoic like the winter soldier version of Bucky, especially it's a funny
[SPEAKER_05]: buddy cop duo or buddy criminal, do I guess?
[SPEAKER_01]: Criminal's, yeah, spy duo, whatever, have a call them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was nice to get Bill Foster on screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, one time, you know, black heroes on screen, I want to see more of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if he'll show up in Thunderbolts because he was last seen as like the guardian of ghost who's going to be on the boat without the, but he didn't have his, we didn't see Goliath, yeah, we didn't see him do his superpowers, yeah, no, because he used to work with, so for anyone who doesn't know, he worked with Hank Pim, so he also has a size control technology, that's why.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right, we, we don't know about this universe per se, but um this so this was the episode that was delayed from season two like so basically they each season had an episode that was delayed which created a knock on effect and I thought that's that's why I thought we were going to get nine again, but apparently not
[SPEAKER_05]: But it does reference the fact that the red guardian was going to be sent to be undercover as a senior senior data input manager in Ohio, which is yeah, but it seems like he was not he didn't raise Natasha in this universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got no not even at the end.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got no reference to her.
[SPEAKER_03]: So no.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she's somewhere else in that universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, which is a shame because my favorite thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what I hope to, what I'm looking forward to seeing more of since Yelena is in Thunderbolts is that family dynamic that they created with the four of them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was the best part of the Black Widow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, Black Widow moving.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Obey.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I did think that he was a bit more conversational than I would expect given his current brainwashing, but I understand it's a cartoon, but I did think it was a funny recurring thing, funny ha ha, what in a dark way, I guess, that Alexey keeps trying to prevent Bucky from killing people who's like, stop, stop, try and still give up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why is that shooting again?
[SPEAKER_05]: But Bucky, you know, after he prevents him from killing Tony's parents, he's a mission failure.
[SPEAKER_05]: I never fail.
[SPEAKER_05]: But don't you think out of anything that's all the horrible things that Bucky was forced to do as the winter soldier isn't killing the stars kind of the one that haunts him the most later in life in the main universe?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, because we haven't seen the depths that he's gone through, what he had to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that we know that he did specifically was, you know, kill Tony's parents.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw him.
[SPEAKER_05]: He also killed someone else.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was feeling guilty about it in Falcon and the winner soldier is trying to make men's, but this literally started to civil war or at least perpetuated a civil war.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, civil war was all Tony Stockswell that you know, I mean, you're not wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, but yeah, I think, and to your point, I think, I don't think that death in killing Tony's parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's what haunted them, the most from what we've seen on screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is the death that you spoke about in the Falcon Winter Soldier TV show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed to me that one way way more on his conscience than what happened with Tony's parents.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe it's also because that one got the TV treatment and the other one was like Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what I'm saying because they gave it, you know, room to breathe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was portrayed in a way that it had a profound effect on him in a way that I don't think I saw in Civil War.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, that's that's fair.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, what did you think of, it's not even mentioned in the recap.
[SPEAKER_05]: She didn't play much of a role as expecting more.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we got a new character from America Ferrara called Ranger Morales.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was, she was, she was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to see more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they give her some sort of backstory or they make her into something else, I think that would be, that would be a nice, um, a nice little thing to have.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I like the actress a lot, so yeah, I'm happy to see her show up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I also loved that Red Guardian and Bucky got that dumb in the movie going off the cliff.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love their whole bonding thing like when they went to Coney or they he helped him Bucky remember a Coney island memory.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then after all of that bonding, then Drake off's like, okay, now kill your new bestie.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yeah, yeah, can I do this thing, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I wish that showed us how he got recaptured.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one thing that I wish we had.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because we saw he got brainwashed again because they did the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was recaptured, but even when he got brainwashed again.
[SPEAKER_01]: He still chose Elexie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Elexie was able to get away, but Bucky wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wouldn't have loved to see how that happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, and would you think of the dude?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm sorry, obadaya stained showing up.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was unexpected.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was the rook, the American sleeper agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I can't complain about, you know, the voice acting and the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone was just
[SPEAKER_01]: they killed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They killed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, staying was remarkably on point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like as soon as you, as soon as they bust into the room, I was like, oh, he has to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like they got to get this guy out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: They got to get him out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like immediately, just the way that he was talking in the way that he, the, the persona, the animation, how they portrayed them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, I get this guy out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's obviously up to no good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought the voice acting portrayed it and it was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think this means so in this he was sort of like inadvertently involved in the killing of Tony Stark's parents?
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think that's also true in the 616 universe?
[SPEAKER_05]: MCU universe main universe.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm inclined to say yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, because he was always, you know, pretending to be an ally, but secretly stabbing in the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I need more
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we get, yeah, that we get that time jump forward.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Goliath is in invites Red Guardian to join the Avengers.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he's with them in, you know, many years later in the Battle of New York.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I need to know what happened in between because wasn't he a target still?
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so I guess I guess he's stopping a target because Drake
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many stories that they, like that whole story could be a season, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I don't think that's the story that they wanted to tell so they cut it off, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is why I'm saying, I wish we had seen how Bucky got captured and recaptured.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you wish you had seen what happened between, you know, the time that,
[SPEAKER_01]: they jumped and that flash forward, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a function of not telling that story and choosing to tell a lot to a story, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe because maybe they were going to bring it together for a different season ending.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because we could have kept going with this series forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish they would have.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish they would have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think given it three seasons is, you know, it's three seasons that I'm glad that we got, but I wish we had more.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I do get the feeling from this final season that they didn't know until after they were well into development that this is going to be the last.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, that's a shame.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ah, well, any more thoughts about Episode 3?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: Alright, so now we move on to my other favorite, which is what if how are the duck got hitched?
[SPEAKER_05]: So during Thor's party on earth, how are the duck marries Darcy Lewis and they have a baby that takes the form of an egg?
[SPEAKER_05]: One day, they are randomly awarded two tickets to the Grandmaster's Grand Cruz across the stars, but once there, he takes their egg and attempts to cook it for the main course in the Cruz's feast, before Yondu Udonta steals it.
[SPEAKER_05]: As the couple gives chase, Nick Fury and Phil Colson explained that because their child was born during a rare alignment of the nine realms called the convergence.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is destined for great things and has become highly sought after by several factions, on nowhere with a K. Now under delivers the egg 2K silliest who kills Yondu and attempts to use the egg as a host body for Dormamo.
[SPEAKER_05]: Shield attacks, intending to take the egg for safekeeping, though the couple recovers it and seek shelter from frost giant Loki on Yotenheim.
[SPEAKER_05]: However, Laufi, the king of the frost giants, Malaki, of the Dark Elves, Zeus, and Thanos, and his black order are also after the egg, and even some scrolls, too, and a chase in Zeus.
[SPEAKER_05]: As the couple is cornered, the egg suddenly glows gold, rises into the sky, and subdues the pursuers with gold and energy.
[SPEAKER_05]: It hatches into a human-slash-duck hybrid, which the parent's name birdie.
[SPEAKER_05]: Fury admits that the child should stay with her family and they return home peacefully.
[SPEAKER_05]: So would you think of this one, Joe?
[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't, you didn't love it as much as me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, I'm not an hour and a duck guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to put that out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not a Howard, a duck, a fanatic, but it was like a paper and I enjoyed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed the chase, I enjoyed some, I enjoyed Loki, way more than I should enjoy Loki.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this version of Loki a lot from this one, series.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I enjoyed Loki, I enjoyed Zeus a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have to say, I saw an E's eyes when they're talking about the egg as their baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw an E's eyes like, hey man, what's going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will admit I did not approach the topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not try to explain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Duck, lady, baby, I kept my mouth shut, kept my head forward on the TV and pretended like I wasn't noticing that he was noticing that something gets off me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I stayed clear, I stayed clear of his view and I was just like, let's get through this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just in my head, when is this going to end?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's where I'm at with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a flood caper.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a flood chase.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one, I'm not a Howard, the duck fanatic, and two, I was desperately trying to avoid explaining to E about the baby duck in the egg with the lady and the duck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I've had with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I get that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'm not going to call myself a Howard the duck fanatic, but I do have two reasons why I have a certain affection for him at the first being that admittedly terrible movie from my childhood, where he was, he was with also Leah Thompson and I always loved Leah Thompson.
[SPEAKER_05]: she was the but that was like so awkward and that was a duck human romance done wrong and this was actually a really healthy couple like they are hashtag couple goals because I want I want a partner like that is like that's a real sister room
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and this is done, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That is the implication.
[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously.
[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, the other reason.
[SPEAKER_05]: My other great affection for Howard the Duck is that who is he best friends with in the comics?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's man thing!
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, he and men think our buddies in the comics so, but yeah, that's, it's basically why I've read some a good amount of Howard the Duck.
[SPEAKER_05]: But you know, what also I liked about this episode is like, I remember the Thor party print episode, thinking it was maybe the weakest of its season.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just seemed like such a throwaway episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it just happened and it was, I loved Darcy by the way,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I'm always glad to see her back and I was glad to see her back in that episode and then there was like this random background running joke about her and how are the doc getting, you know, all you can eat not shows and then winding up getting married in that big drunken party that lasted forever and it was kind of like throw away joke in a throw away episode of felt like, but actually that episode keeps coming back, including this part now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I laughed all the time when they kept referring to them as the the ducks.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's always good to see Phil Colson and Nick Fury, although I'll admit, even Nick Fury shine wore off a little bit in the show that cannot be named for store a little bit after that in the marbles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a little bit not that the whole lot much.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I feel a little differently after that show that cannot be named, which is not, well, I was going to say it's not his fault, but actually, I mean, this is a producer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I don't think though he's the one who fired the good showrunner and put in that anyway.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can, we're going to hear more.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're going to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Topaz was back, not the witch from the comics, who I don't know if they can introduce the witch topaz into this universe because they've taken this other topaz from an alternate universe from the comics, which is she's the one with the Melty Stick with the Grandmaster.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I always like to see nowhere that dead celestial head they use as a base, but now we find out that the collector beneath the old Torah's character is trapped in the mere dimension, and Kaisili is just taking this place.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what you're telling me is they couldn't get beneath the old Torah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But no, what they're telling you is this is a what if I know, but it's a what if, but it's extra messed up that the collector trapped the, sorry, that the grandmaster trapped the collector in the mirror you dimension because their brothers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know, you know how sibling or Iveries are when you have cosmic power.
[SPEAKER_05]: Apparently, apparently.
[SPEAKER_05]: you have to be a brother from another mother too.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love that line, by the way, you're my own lady.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'd say is that you're my brother from another mother's old lady's sister from another mister.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're practically family.
[SPEAKER_01]: And get treated as such.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, at Frost Giant Loki, Yotum Slopes, Luxury Hotel in Casino.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just love that Loki, I love that Loki.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's living his best life.
[SPEAKER_05]: He used got the best of all worlds, kind of going for him there.
[SPEAKER_05]: there was some funny Easter eggs like when they were talking about cruise options on this intergalactic cruise that you could do couples cliff diving on vormir which you you can only appreciate that with the one you love.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the one you love exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Explain that to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've watched the Avengers in game then you know that in order to get the which one was it the Solstone.
[SPEAKER_05]: The orange.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah the Solstone.
[SPEAKER_01]: that a sacrifice needed to be made.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Thanos, it's got to be the one you love the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the one you love the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Thanos, through his daughter, Gamora, right off the cliff, in order to collect the stone.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we also had that with this, that's also had Natasha died ultimately.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also had Natasha died.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, with the
[SPEAKER_01]: She threw herself basically, but yeah, she sacrificed herself so that whole guy could go back to his family.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and they also mentioned a lava boat ride on the canals of Muscleheim, which is obviously another like lava world in the nine realms, but you know, we're talking Thor territory here.
[SPEAKER_05]: He always makes me cry at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm very pop-in, Joe.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love those movies more than you.
[SPEAKER_05]: We all know this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just watch very pop-in.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you know, I love the guardian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the guardian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how much I don't care about the guardian that I immediately went to.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just watched my apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm seeing you podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yeah, we although I'm a bigger fan of the guardians James God in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't
[SPEAKER_05]: I love that Dormamo did not come to bargain with this installment thing, and then it was cute how they had this whole thing, like they set it up in the beginning, how they, the couple, the, the ducks, they sing, I was made for loving you, terribly, to their baby, to like sort of comfort the baby egg, and so, terribly, that the neighbors are complaining and yelling at them.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, the way they get the egg to hatch at the end is by singing their special song,
[SPEAKER_05]: You're family might be weird, but you're weird in your own special way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a nice touch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I I love that episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: I understood.
[SPEAKER_05]: I understood while watching it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, this is not going to be one that everyone loves, but this is for me too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any final thoughts on episode four?
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Should we go into episode five?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if the emergence destroyed the earth?
[SPEAKER_01]: After the Earth is split apart by the emergence, Quinton Beck takes over stock industries, creating an army of drones called the Iron Federation to subjugate the survivors.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the present, really Williams is recruited by Wang Akoi A. Valkyrie, and Yang Nan to join their alliance.
[SPEAKER_01]: After defeating Beck's lieutenant, the White Division, enacted that which exposes her identity, Quinton Beck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Williams uses his components to become a human-synthesized hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: while the alliance holds off the iron federation, Williams infiltrates Bex base to destroy the Danice powering his illusions.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, her suit fails as she loses the ability to seat through Bex' illusions and is lured into a prison cell, where Bex explains that he uploaded the Danice into himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meaning he can control illusions with his mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Nanites are also killing him, so he intends to merge with Vision to live longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Williams breaks free, only to learn how comrades are dead, and everything since Vision's defeat has been an illusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Watcher intervenes by encouraging Williams to fight back, so she siphons the Nanites, the Nanites off a Bex body, killing him in destroying the Federation.
[SPEAKER_01]: William then projects the Avengers logo into the sky to give the survivors hope elsewhere three other watchers are displeased by the watchers continued interference.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the watcher broke his oath again.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just want to point out the names of the three other three soup, the three super watchers.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we see this season are the eminence, the incarnate, and the executioner.
[SPEAKER_05]: We only ever hear the eminence talking, but the others are the incarnate
[SPEAKER_05]: That ass names.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what did you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah, I mean, I thought that this, like I said, I was initially disappointed because I thought that this was going to be, you know, a follow-up on the Agatha episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because, you know, because the use of the term emergence, and I thought maybe the celestial came back.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there was like, okay, recalibrating.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's cool that they, they clearly are, they wanted to have a really, really Williams episode to get us familiar for Ironheart, which is coming out this year.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, were you glad to see her?
[SPEAKER_05]: I know you're excited about Ironhardt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm excited for Ironhardt, but I thought this was a disservice to her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, because it didn't really tell you much about Riri.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and
[SPEAKER_01]: I know this is what if, but she's such a relatively new character that her, you know, her story hasn't really been laid down yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that doing this and showing her in this way might lead other people to think that this is her as a character and it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: You thought
[SPEAKER_01]: relates to other people, other heroes and things of that nature.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just felt like if we're going to do a re-re-williams, what if, then we should have an established re-re-williams to be able to say, okay, this is how she differs from main MCU universe re-re-re-re-re.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this one missed the mark for me in that regard.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, see I thought I'm I'm not so familiar with the reread Williams character of only become loosely familiar just an anticipation of this show that's coming up and so I thought for me it did tell me a few key things about her like that I
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's only half an hour, so they didn't have much time for that, but for example, the whole thing where she has to build this theoretical weapon in seven and a half minutes, which is like freaking impossible, but somehow she does manage to pull it off, so that tells me something about this is, she's just the complete tech ways, maybe even more so than, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: And they also said, Ruby Williams always thinks she can build her way out of problems.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he and the watcher says that this is what in this universe leads to her failing over and over.
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, the fact that he kept emphasizing always fails always said that over and over.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, well, she's clearly not going to fail this time.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I guess they're just showing his exasperation to show why he speaks up and encourages her.
[SPEAKER_05]: But just the whole thing she can build her way out of problems and then needing to find another internal solution instead.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if that is a theme that we will see come back in her show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know because I don't know her character and how character in the main MCU,
[SPEAKER_01]: invariably is going to get compared, you know, people folks are going to compare the two versions as see, you know, if this jies with the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just don't think that for a character again, she's really new character to comics, even, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like she's been in established hero in established presence in Marvel Comics for 20 plus years, she hasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for a broader audience, especially for kids,
[SPEAKER_01]: to get this as their first four-way and to who really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a messed up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did like...
[SPEAKER_05]: the what if point I think they could have explored a little more, but the emergent occurred earlier is basically what happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's why and they celestial are sorry the internals weren't ready for it yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it exploded the earth.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then there's people living on these like these pieces of the shadows.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought that was that was pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was cool, but he was like, how did they breathe in Papa?
[SPEAKER_05]: Papa, how do you breathe it is a smart boy it's like what's going on there's no there's no atmosphere how can they be breathing I'd like there has to be atmosphere that's why it's like hours there's mysterious air and space when there's space I mean I do I do think about that too we can say what throw rocks so many things with gravity and what would happen with like the moon
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how anyone could have survived an exploded Earth, but, you know, comics, slash cartoons, and it looks cool, and also the whole thing with Clinton Beck and the Nanites and the fact that he took them in to himself to improve himself, but then they were eating him from the inside out, was very Michael Crichton Prey, which is a book that I always think about a lot for some reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: We you excited to see Sharon Carter as a smuggler.
[SPEAKER_05]: We last saw her as the power broker.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they haven't picked up that thread again yet in the main MCU.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's um, um, yeah, Sharon Carter's.
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't given me a reason to really care.
[SPEAKER_05]: quite honestly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even as the power broker, I just, you know, that felt like don't, don't now.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really, you know, identify with her being that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I get that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I like to, I like though that whole opening, I thought that that was a cute way to introduce Riri, and then she's getting this easy bake oven, and it's because it's analog, and then it gets destroyed immediately, but she's like, well, it doesn't matter, only needed this part and like, flex it out of the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not lately wrong, you know, I don't want folks to get the wrong idea that, you know, this episode was, you know, subpar.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it just wasn't your faith.
[SPEAKER_01]: it did what it did for the story and I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They told a cool story.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a cool story that they told.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I'm just thinking meta over here and it's just like, yeah, it didn't make sense for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the character.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think about there?
[SPEAKER_05]: The, their base was a sunken ship that was now flying through this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's how gravity works, but I love magic that shit away, man, you know I am flux science got magic that shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm cool with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, now I know I know your son is a fan of vision, but of course, I'm sure he knows by now the difference between, you know, our Avengers vision and white vision, but what did he think about seeing vision like this as a nemesis program by back?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, he used cool with it because he's seeing the we actually
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows that Ultron created vision to be Ultron's body.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he gets that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the Avengers animated episodes that we watch he's seeing that transformation, how vision becomes an Avenger.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he gets it that he's seeing different versions of vision.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I liked, I thought it was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, you know, that theme about merging technology and magic and different sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so we have re-returns herself into a human synthesoid by fusing with vision spare parts after she kills him and he uploads her face to Quintin.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Question about Ying Nan, by the way, that's actually Shang-Chi's mother in our 616 universe, maybe not in this one we don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but Ednie and she's the one who goes to write.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I just answered my own question in my head as I was asking it, but I'll finish it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she takes Ruby to, you know, they have to go to the far side of the planetary asteroid ring to get to the center of the illusion network, basically they're looking for Quinton and then when they get to the base, she dissolves away with a background and like she was never real, but then of course right after that, he takes them to see that all of her teammates are actually dead and died when they were fighting vision.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so that actually makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like Turline.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the thing about connections.
[SPEAKER_05]: They go both ways when she takes the nannights from him.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then this is of course the watcher can't watch her give up one more time and he just tells her to fight it's like the most simple intervention he's done way bigger intervention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is the one that's like too much straw that broke the camera's back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, okay, this is too much.
[SPEAKER_05]: One last time you've gone too far.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of a happy, happily ever after for this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Except the Earth still destroyed, and you know, your son's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: He can't, he can't, nobody can breathe.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any more thoughts on episode five?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a good spot to take a quick break.
[SPEAKER_05]: And when we come back, we're going to talk about actually another one of my favorite episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: and we'll talk about why, 1872.
[SPEAKER_05]: See you in the other side.
[SPEAKER_05]: at Episode 6, What If, 1872.
[SPEAKER_05]: In the 1860s, Shang-Chi's sister Xu Sha Ling fled to America for a better life, only to fall victim to the Hood's plan to enslave Chinese migrants in order to consolidate his power.
[SPEAKER_05]: In 1872 Xu Shaong Chi is searching for his sister alongside Kate Bishop.
[SPEAKER_05]: who once revenge on the hood for killing her family.
[SPEAKER_05]: They find a decimated township and meet a boy, Kwai, Junfang, who claims the hood attacked and left on a ghost train.
[SPEAKER_05]: Shangchi, Bishop, and Junfang find and board the train where they discover that the missing immigrants have been brainwashed by the hood's enforcers Sonny Birch, Sonny Birch.
[SPEAKER_05]: The watch helps Jun Fan survive while Shang Qi and Bishop are taken to the hood, who is revealed to be a corrupted jalling, who killed the original hood and stole his powers.
[SPEAKER_05]: Birch confesses to killing Bishop's parents in attempts to brainwash her until Jun Fan rings the bell, freeing the prisoners and allowing Bishop to knock Birch out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Shang Qi refuses to fight jalling and Bishop kills jalling, not knowing her identity and thinking she's about to kill
[SPEAKER_05]: The pair observes Jen Fan with the immigrants before they ride off into the sunset.
[SPEAKER_05]: The episode ends with the watcher being punished by the other watchers for his interference, causing shards of their observatory to spill into the multiverse.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what were your thoughts on this episode?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, this is probably my third favorite.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my third favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Handshaking emoji.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the old West vibe and I like, you know, it was in.
[SPEAKER_01]: centered on some white cowboy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I really enjoyed this immigrant type of story and being told that we often don't get to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was really a nice twist on the old west Americana type of setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought Shang-Chi and Kate dishes dynamic worked for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to see them more of this world and more of them as they you know, traverse the old West.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that was the adventure.
[SPEAKER_05]: West Coast Avenger.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, this was this was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so when I saw the title of this one before I watched the episode, I was like, you know, I last season we got there's that 1602 episode and I went back and I read the 1602 comics because and I just loved it so much I loved these historical comics I was like 1872 that's so specific specific I bet there's a comic that I can read so I did I went and read the 1872 which is
[SPEAKER_05]: it's again this is only inspired by it doesn't take the plot the characters are largely different but it's this old west setting and yeah i really i enjoyed the comic i actually talked about it recently on silo for overlapping reasons um
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, so I was really into this going in.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just thought it was cool how they did, for example, like I didn't look at the castless before I started any of the episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was always surprised by who showed up.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they started the episode by we're going to do 10 rings.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to do 10 rings on the bell.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, oh,
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I love how they had these like kung fu gun fights by merging, you know, the eastern and western fighting styles.
[SPEAKER_05]: The ghost train was really a hover train, which, yeah, there's more stark tech involved.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's sort of like, I wouldn't call it steam punk western because there was no steam involved, but, you know, stark tech western.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but I have to ask, they left the poor horses in the desert.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, a train?
[SPEAKER_01]: They did, they did, they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: The horses will be fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: No horses were harmed.
[SPEAKER_05]: No horses were harmed in the making of this cartoon.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think again, that this was, they wanted to introduce the hood, who's going to be an antagonist in the IronHart series again.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is again, an IronHart series set up to, but it wasn't, we're not getting, obviously, this version of the hood.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not getting charling is the hood.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're, and we saw.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw like the cape fly away at the end to anoint the next to it, but we see a little bit of like the hoods powers, like the hood can disappear and has like mystical powers in that weird voice.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I guess that's what we're going to see in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see because they always change things up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's see where we get.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been kind of a John Walker apologists since Falcon in the winter soldier, like, you know, he did bad things, but, you know, they created empathy for him with me, but he was a freaking racist in this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, what do I care about a bunch of Chinese immigrants?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, they are turning me against him for Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's well, they should.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was he was a fucking racist in, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: Was he?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he didn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: He did things wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't remember that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was just like an angry man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was angry that this black man was trying to hold the shield.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Was it about that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or was it just like he was like, I get to be Captain America.
[SPEAKER_05]: They made me Captain America.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get to be Captain America because you don't get to be Captain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's two different things.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I actually kind of want to go back and re-watch that show.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know people like talk down like, I know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that there's, it had its COVID problems, but I actually quite liked it myself also.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I did like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Little Easter egg, they say they talk about being headed to point Pegasus and I think that this is a reference to the Joint Dark Energy Mission Facility, which is a shield facility, where they're studying the Tesseract and that was part of Project Pegasus, where Pegasus is an acronym, so it means Project's potential energy group alternate sources.
[SPEAKER_05]: Pegasus.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm guessing that that's what I was about.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was some cool alternate reality snapshots.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw Throg running from alligator Loki, pirates.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's our showtunes, Ultram.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, all this season, all these little teases we get of the other potential universes and like, man, this show could have gone on forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could have, and it should I know it deserves more season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it does, it does.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sunny Birch, by the way, for anyone who doesn't remember, he was in the Ant-Man movies.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was a nemesis in the Ant-Man movies, so here he's even worse.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he tried to have that kid, Jim fan killed and the watcher intervened again there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and Sunny, he says like he not only killed Kate's parents and took and used their money, but he rubs it in that like he really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he was really like, let me grow a mustache real quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, oh my god, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the villain's villain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the villain's villain.
[SPEAKER_05]: He has a hypnotizing watch that makes Kate sleepy and hypnotizes the labors, so that's why Jen Fan needs to later ring the bell to disrupt the sound.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although I kept thinking I was like plug all their ears.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think about the reveal that Charlie and what's the hood?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wasn't expecting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see it happening so I was pleasantly surprised that, you know, I was surprised because I didn't see it happening and I thought the fight sequence between the two of them was really was really well animated was really well done.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, no, I thought it was, I mean, how devastating is that, you know, and that she's she seems to be willing to kill her brother for stopping her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, she would have.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I can't find it hard to believe.
[SPEAKER_05]: that she believes that she's saving people by turning them into an army to fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: She also has this demonic hood.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: It corrupts her thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Corrupting her actions or thoughts or mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she probably would have killed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But she is.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's herself again, luckily, when she dies.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she claims the hood not Kate for her death.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, our Shangchi blames the hood, not Cape Verde.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was so glad that that didn't blow up Shangchi in Cape.
[SPEAKER_05]: They still rode off in the sunset together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And of course, they say about, um, Jean-Fan, they say that kids got some iron fists.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they just lay it on the big.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just lay it on the big.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he is an alternate iron fist in the comics other than Danny Rand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I thought that this was a fun episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really like this was definitely my third favorite of the season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any final thoughts on six?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Episode seven, what if the watch are disappeared?
[SPEAKER_01]: In the fifth dimension, the Watcher stands trial before the other three watchers, the Eminence, the Incarnate, and the Executioner, while Captain Peggy caught a lead to team consisting of Kahori, a grown-up birdie, a millennia wielding storm, and stopping multiversal incursions.
[SPEAKER_01]: After preventing an inter-dimensional universe eater, the squid-like hydrochampion from season 1, from attacking Xandar 625, Carter and her team noticed three shards have fallen for the watchers' overtory, which they know means trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they resolved to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: But first, they have to reach its point of existence somehow, after the first attempts to synthesize the charts for now, and cost them two of the three, the group considered requesting help from variant of infinity altruity, agreeing to use time variants authority, equipment to prune him should he go rogue.
[SPEAKER_01]: After a hard-to-hard restore, Carter resolves to meet with Infinity Alchron alone, only to be captured by the eminence.
[SPEAKER_01]: Noticing Carter went missing, Kahari, Burdian Storm, confront Alchron, who reveals that he has realized there is no peace out life, and concludes that he made a mistake in distinguishing all life in his universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though it is too late for redemption, he is willing to turn for his action, and
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I loved the team up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was really happy to see the Nova Prime Nebula back, because I loved that episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then I was disappointed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought she might join their team and go with them, and she didn't know it was disappointed about that, but fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, they still gave me storm, a wielding yonder.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think of that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, badass.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, store, we should, you know, the goddess of thunder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's completely badass.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to point out that they because they've taken a lot to into custody.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they've arrested him.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a different narrator for this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the M&S.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Played by Jason Isaacs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice touch.
[SPEAKER_01]: What a nice touch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet we also got a quick Groot and Cork signings, which I always love to see those two characters, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: So happy to have a cameo from them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you notice that Captain Carter and Bertie Corey and Storm, they arrived in Kang's time chair?
[SPEAKER_05]: Feels like something is cut there, like...
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of threads, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, you can tell that maybe
[SPEAKER_01]: They were told leaving the game that they were not getting another season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: In this case though, don't you think it probably has something to do with the Jonathan majors?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's just a race and much king.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not doing king.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're not doing king.
[SPEAKER_05]: Get rid of all king.
[UNKNOWN]: All
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, what did you think of birdie adult, um, now you don't have to explain the awkward egg.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Still no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she was a mix of between Howard and.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Darcy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think, yeah, they did it well.
[SPEAKER_01]: They portrayed her as being, you know, a product of both her parents.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know why she was there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: She knows how to be saved the universe or if you don't know, but I don't know why this team was together in the first place.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would have loved to have seen them.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did they get together?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did they come together?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did they find each other?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it seemed like storm and Peggy were close, but then I would love to have seen how they got close, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how did this team come together?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're giving us that saying that these pieces fit, but I would have liked to see the pieces actually do fit because I don't think I got that watching this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, they did show this goofy photo at one point that also showed, uh, included Gamora and Natasha who were in previous incarnations as team of prior seasons and I think I think the last person was to Chala.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that was like at these characters are all gone and MC you know, of course I got saddest about to Chala because you know, which I would postman really is gone.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but what's the Chala?
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to do our MCU preview.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're going to definitely get in more into that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but yet they're all gone now.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what are are you an attached to Leone fan in general?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think she's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought this is a great part for her.
[SPEAKER_05]: She is a good voice for this part.
[SPEAKER_05]: I should say, you know, she is going to show up as an unknown role in the fantastic four film, but I'm guessing I'm guessing not birdie.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would kind of love it, but I think people would riot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it may be she'll be Alicia.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, maybe I'm just thinking of previous castings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, could be, could be.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't hate that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was a cool idea to bind their ships to the shards.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that this was another one where they're merging science and magic together in this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, we see them like, oh, let's try magical.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, let's try the cosmic powers.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, you know, well, you know what I see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, fuck science, give me all the magic, give me all the magic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like when you merge them together in stories.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I also thought it was interesting that the eminence ironically gave them the materials they needed to reach him, you know, by letting their shards fall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it does when they met Ultron, it drives me crazy so much when people attack without listening, even though I know that that's like how people really are.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, like, let's not model this behavior.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's hear the person out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's pretty, that is true, that is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, you know, like I said, it was fine, but I wish I had reason to care about this team
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, although it's cool that we got like ultra-shard ultra, but then...
[SPEAKER_05]: And he realized that he had to sit in this world that he actually achieved a destruction of and realized that actually had sucks, and that's not peaceful at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was great, that was a great thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he, you know, even said to me, much to say, he was like, oh, so he saw what he did was bad, right Papa?
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he realizes what he did was not such a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a nice little moment of clarity going into this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we get a big fat to be continued.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is when I started to suspect that maybe it wasn't nine episodes.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, wow, it should be continued.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or there is a next one going to be to be continued to still didn't look at the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're still in full delusion as I rolled into the final one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you have any more thoughts on seven?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could go to the finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_05]: What if what if in a flashback a watch or disciple named to Wattu is recruited to become a full watcher by the evidence in the present the watcher is placed on trial for his repeated interference.
[SPEAKER_05]: such as giving Dr.
[SPEAKER_05]: Strange Supreme the information he needed to recreate his destroyed universe, saving Ruby Williams and Quai Jiang Fan, as well as involving Captain Carter in his affairs.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Watcher and Carter are rescued by UltraShard Ultron, who sacrifices himself to buy them time to escape.
[SPEAKER_05]: The watchers give chase attempting to erase them from existence, but the watcher grants Carter's team the powers of a watcher before Carter sacrifices herself to transport everyone to strange, supreme universe, where strange, having become the sentient consciousness of that universe, removes the powers of the eminence, incarnate, and executioner.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Watcher convinces the humble trio to learn by watching over life in this new universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: As they mourn Carter's death, the Watcher invites Kehori, Birdie, and Storm to join him and watching over the multiverse.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have for place three for three.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do your thoughts on this one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the fight sequences were great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there, you know, having the OP overpowered protagonists go at each other was really cool and fun to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I just, the spectacle of it all was really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it really was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I liked that they went to Stephen Stranger's universe in order to have a chance, you know, when, when, when she, when, I forgot what he, when Guatu says, you're in his universe now and it doesn't work, you know, you're at his whims, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was so cool, there to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, another character, you know, trying to atone for past horrible behaviors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that little thread, maybe they kind of woven that thread throughout the entire season, then it would have been a lot more impactful for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because as a stance, we got that in these last two episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I left thinking, like, the season should have been about that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of these two episodes being about that, the season should have been about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but it was...
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad we got the other episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wish give them one more chance to give them a chance for me as a developing it, you know, absolutely I'm not I'm not saying I didn't I don't know I know that episodes, you know, but I thought that the story that they were trying to tell in these last two episodes would have hit a lot better if they told that story those those threads were, you know, sewn in through the entire season.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, new rule.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to tell someone it's their last season before they start developing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: You listening to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I like this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like the flashback to at the beginning to when Watu became a watcher.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: It always strikes me how much that when you see strands of our universe, it always strikes me how much it looks like networks of nerves or blood vessels and our bodies.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think about, like, our own bodies are little universes for all the little beings that live in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: We definitely, you know, the eminence is like, holier than now, but he's definitely got a lot of pride because he tells a lot to, you are a disciple of the orders of the watchers of me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Full of himself.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then he says, yeah, you have to sacrifice your wills, your wants, and your own names for powers.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any time you have to sacrifice all of your individuality, I'm not a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, not all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right at you, Jedi.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, they get to have their names at least and stuff and even get their own light-tabric colors.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, our watcher does not feel sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_05]: It must also observe, only observe to preserve, he's told, which I think this is such a dangerous message.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's treated as a dangerous message, obviously that's what this episode's about.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we see it in our own world where people are just like, well, let's just watch it play out, you know, shouldn't interfere like it's a nature documentary.
[SPEAKER_05]: But no, it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but for them, it actually is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like us watching ants.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'll build an intel or you know carry your twig along and try to get a cross a puddle.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what that's what we are to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's just the same the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, just watch the lesser beings.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't do that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you have to get involved, bro?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, they say to see from every point of view, a watcher must have none of their own.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is no seeing differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now that a watcher, but that is a point of view.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but now that he has exactly, now that a watcher has an opinion that doesn't conform or subjugate to theirs, then now he's a heredic.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're all heretics, and anyone who disagrees with the eminences of heredic, and we don't even know what, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: the other two think.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we are the two, they don't speak up, they don't speak up, they don't speak up.
[SPEAKER_01]: The MMS is doing all the talking and all the things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the followers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And incarnate.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just, you know, like, yeah, these are the rules.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just follow them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like puzzle questions.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although in the eminence's defense not all of the watchers picks of heroes that he told the secrets of the multiverse to look like the best picks on paper like I'm looking at you Steven Strange and Kilmonger especially.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's he was planning.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I like the way he said he's like, why are we we want the universe to grow like a garden, you know, more bushes and branches to watch over, more like overall goodness that enhances, it all becomes more vibrant.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like a tree.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like a tree held by a certain lobe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a tree.
[SPEAKER_05]: By the way, can you guess the moment where I squeed the most?
[SPEAKER_05]: the mentioned is like you saved a bunch of people, including a version of Reed Richards, which you point out, and some girl named Madison, I and a wife, but then he didn't see did not say, but not where you think, so I yelled at her to scream, but not where you think, you have to finish the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have never seen Madison again.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we will.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I get the season two, maybe?
[SPEAKER_05]: Apparently, Jack Sheafer did want to include her in season one, but then she was like, I would have been shoe hoarding her in.
[SPEAKER_05]: But maybe a season two.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think Madison's got to come back.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a second reference.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've gotten recently.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: People know we love her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody is even people who hate on She-Hoke.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're like, yeah, Madison was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, basically.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, yeah, I was cool to see Ultron as an ally, you know, the watcher was surprised because he says later, what does he say?
[SPEAKER_05]: He says, when you've spent too many eons looking down on everything, it becomes hard to imagine something you've never seen before.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then it was like, we got this cool Ultron ally sharded up, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: Infinity Ultron and then he goes down pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, pretty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was just like, even he was like, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That guy must be really powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'll try and all the finished these stones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but apparently they didn't work out, so that which leads me to think.
[SPEAKER_01]: is the eminence that more powerful than the other watchers because what you couldn't do what did?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot who couldn't even destroy one non-sharded up in financial
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and their whole plan though, we're going to just going to hide between the multiverses.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, that's going to last for two seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just lasts for about two seconds.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they're caught in the ship gets burnt up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I liked, what did you think of this concept that so strange at the end of the last season?
[SPEAKER_05]: He sacrificed himself to restart this universe, so everyone, including his beloved Christine, could be happy in it without him.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we find out in this season that that means that his soul now permeates that universe that he created by sacrificing himself and he has control over it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you think of that concept?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he created the universe, so it makes complete sense to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, I liked, I thought that was beautiful as to create her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's the creator of the universe, and everything is infused with him, some, some part of him.
[SPEAKER_05]: He gets to see Christine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Live her life.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Live her life, and still be a part of it because he's a part of her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, as you said, we got some cool battle moments.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got like the watchers in their battle gear.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got the Watcher Galactus moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think about that?
[SPEAKER_05]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although, I do have questions about suddenly, I think it was a cool move, but I'm not sure about it on the lower front, maybe you can tell me more.
[SPEAKER_05]: But suddenly, the watcher is able to have the other three take the watcher oath and become watchers themselves.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that how it works?
[SPEAKER_05]: But if it's not the eminence that has to do with it,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't know about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that I checked off on my list to look up when I have a moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because yeah, I didn't know that he couldn't view his powers, the power of the watcher to other sentient life forms.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then again,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, do you want to see these watchers back?
[SPEAKER_05]: Go home, birdie and storm meal near storm?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, because, again, I don't have reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not invested in their characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like they were just thrown together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Coharri, like, I,
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we got a watch for us here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so if we get a Corey animated series or whatever, I'll be, I'll be keen on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Storm is storm, no matter she's the goddess of thunder or she's, you know, a mega level mutant, or she's the goddess on earth.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is what it is, she's storm, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Birdie is whatever birdie, she's birdie.
[SPEAKER_01]: But them together, I have, I don't have an affinity for because I don't, as a team, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just don't, it didn't move me to be like, I can't wait to see this team again.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, um, I, we should we get a lot to reclaiming his identity.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not no one.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am a lot to.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think we're going to see this a lot to in say secret wars?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am hoping that we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: I see, I hope we can see Jeffrey Wright in secret wars as a lot to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, we may see Jeffrey Wright, but we won't see
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we'll see a watcher that does more than watch, at least initially.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we do see a watcher that does more than watch, it'll be in Fantastic Four.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you're right, that's that's actually a good place for him to show up, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be in Fantastic Four.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been feeling fantastic for it sounds like it's going to be setting up do me, especially, and then yeah, see for it after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like it's going to be setting up every.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then we get that moment, um, it was a cool moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is not what you taught me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did not teach you everything and then the Eminence and and his other two cronies to go in super spin mode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're like every version of yourself will be erased from every universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what was cool about it was it was as they're like
[SPEAKER_05]: First of all, it's kind of sad because we're seeing these other alternate universes die off and there are some like really interesting things going on in there like we had like an an electric Sharon Carter, or sorry, an electric Peggy we had like
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't even remember, whatever all the, I mean, if we had more time, I would love to do like a full Easter I break down, but we don't have that kind of time on this but, but so many cool Easter eggs in like those identities.
[SPEAKER_05]: We saw peeling off and dying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: until through sheer force of Peggy's will, she says, I am not losing any friends today, and she sacrifices herself so that they end up in strangers living universe where he has absolute power and can shut down the others, which I'm not really sure how the mechanics of that worked, but okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm cartoon, he created a lot of your influence.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but how did Peggy's sacrifice get them to that universe from where they were?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, the magic of love.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Magic.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I love the lesson of this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oatu says to the other watchers, you must do more than simply watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: You must learn to see.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Carter's shield heals.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's Captain Britain by the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we've mentioned that, but I think I should
[SPEAKER_05]: probably will show up in some of these team up films later.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm guessing.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, this version, not this version because she's dead, but she's watching.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we get this line.
[SPEAKER_05]: Is there a greater adventure beyond death?
[SPEAKER_05]: And that struck me because we've been talking so much about how they've been showing all of these actual lives.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I feel like that's setting that up.
[SPEAKER_01]: that is definitely setting something up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely setting something because they've been telling this story for the last three years, two years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I don't think that's a throwaway line.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, especially because they've enticing us with like, you know, we've talked about it in another part.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't have to go into it here, but you know, we've seen it in Moon Night.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've seen it in Miss Marvel.
[SPEAKER_05]: You could argue that we've seen it obviously Black Panther Thor, yeah, so many versions.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, any final thoughts on this series this season?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, just that I enjoy all three seasons of what if
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, for this final season, I just thought that the last two episodes had a story to tell and I wish they had stitched it throughout the entire season, where it had to do so.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you think or hope that we'll see any of these characters or storylines continue anywhere else like Secret Wars or Fantastic Four Doomsday?
[SPEAKER_01]: If they do like a battle world, and Avengers doomsday was secret wars, where my doom stitches together different parts of the multiverse into one world, then yes, maybe we'll see some of these characters from the first three seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: come on screen in live action.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only way I could see it happen.
[SPEAKER_05]: That 1872 comic by the way, it takes place on battle world in intersection of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the only way I could see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I already said I think in the hope that we'll see Jeffrey writes a lot to show up somewhere.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think you're right, fantastic for us at best place.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did hope for continuation of movie star Agatha plot line, maybe with the popularity of Agatha all along, maybe they might give us some nods to that somewhere.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to know about these celestial that we're coming.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I just see other new characters that they introduce, Cahori, Birdie, and Ranger Morales.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want this to be the end of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, these were new characters for this show, and I feel like I just got teases, and I need more now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if we don't get more, I'm glad that we got this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because never in a million years that I expect to get this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that we actually got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're getting a Marvel zombie spin off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could see if that does well, then maybe some of these other characters will show up at some other form of animation in the coming years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm hoping that Jennifer Kale shows up in Marvel's zombies because she plays a sizable role in some of those Marvel's zombies comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, so the panel, there were some other ideas they considered for this season.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were considering having a throughline of kiss stories, like the band.
[SPEAKER_05]: And one of them was going to be a galactic battle of the bands with kisses, the judges.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank God.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, I'm, I'm okay with missing that.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were thinking about a hardcore samurai episode with elements of Romeo and Juliet.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I would be into that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would be even more into a Dungeons & Dragons style episode, but that's a really vague way to put it, so I don't know what that would have looked like.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is cool, because this next one is more like what I think of it's the concept of what if, you know, in terms of like, to Charles Starlord, they were thinking about having an episode where Yelena Belova became the Winter Soldier and Sam Wilson was Captain America.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that would have been cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would have been cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... they were thinking about having a kung fu episode themed episode featuring the art iron fist and chung chi that would have been called to that was but i'm i like the i guess i'm guessing that eighteen seventy two episode is what we got instead and i'm not right and i'm happy with that definitely yeah
[SPEAKER_05]: and apparently Andrew's also wanted to include the characters beta-ray bill, which I know basically nothing about, so no comments there, but also Ghost Rider!
[SPEAKER_05]: Ghost, give me Ghost Rider, please give me Ghost Rider!
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that would have been epic, beta-ray bill, one of my favorite
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell us a bit about him with his deal.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why is he so cool?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the last of his, he's the protector of his race.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like horse like creatures sentient horses, horse face creatures.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a cool ass ship trying to find the home world for his people.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the final protector and he's a big part of Thor stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: he gets his own hammer by Odin, which embues him with the power of Thor as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's a big part of some of the cosmic comics in the last 20, 25 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's a really cool fun character.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the good news for both of us is that the reason why they couldn't use beta-ray bill or ghost writer is because apparently They were off limits because they may appear in future projects.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's up.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like so I hope that means that they are appearing in future projects They gave him a tease and Thor raggeden rock Thor was on
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, okay, yeah cool in the mountains.
[SPEAKER_01]: So get definitely the sooner or later.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah and come on we're over due for at least one ghost writer, but I need three You've already had two.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm been not in the MCU.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I want those two back in the MCU.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I can And I want also Danny Kitch
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's Johnny Blaise though.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want so three.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want three.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want more and more and more and more and more and more because I want this.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want Kishala.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's my favorite.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's like.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, yeah, I've talked about her in previous episodes, but give me like a brigade of ghost writers.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we're getting in the DCU, we're gonna get a bunch of green lanterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm one of a brigade of ghost writers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but didn't mean it.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't use them one at a time, but you know, yeah, I knew it was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, and also apparently they didn't realize until I guess they maybe storm was added kind of last minute because they didn't even realize that they had access to the X-Men characters.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they're like, oh, well, you know, if we had known, we would have used Wolverine, but I'm happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it's storm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we had enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't even see her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it makes a good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we we've got a lot more to comics discussion coming up.
[SPEAKER_05]: What else do we have coming up in the near future?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have the MCU 2025 preview mini-sode, creature commandos one shot with Superman trailer talk, Superman trailer talk, um, excited about that, then, um, when the Craven digital comes out, well, you know, do some sort of Sony spider villain versus funeral.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're pitching the dirt on that entire endeavor.
[SPEAKER_05]: So are they, so we'll help them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so we'll help them dig the ground in a shovel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, goodbye and good luck.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been watching the Craven yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we're going to watch it before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also the similarity in stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: North Faratou, which we're going to get into, hopefully, we'll be able to see that this weekend, and Oscar season is under horizon.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I'm very excited to do a new Oscar series, like we did last year, and you joined in for that, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we'll have the Supercast Patreon, second request plus 116.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's both three months.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so Jen, you raised my birthday months.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we choose it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We choose chose three movies from the 117s that subscribers.
[SPEAKER_05]: uh, vote on them.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's looking currently as we record like everything everywhere all at once is winning, but there's like another week left in voting.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, um, yeah, there's still time if you are a supercaster, Patreon subscriber, there's still time to get your vote in if you're like, hmm, I would rather see breakfast at Tiffany's or the last unicorn or one of the other movies.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but I love everything every world wants to be the last unicorn I mean, if you want to uh, if you want to be able to vote, if you want to join Supercast and Patreon and have access to episodes like that, you can find that information in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And also, you know, if you don't want to do that, we're just super glad that you're listening.
[SPEAKER_05]: We also really appreciate if you enjoy this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you can share it with other people, you think would enjoy this episode that's a huge help and helping our podcast grow so that we can continue to do this.
[SPEAKER_05]: The other huge free piece of help that you can do is just leave a nice review wherever you're listening if you think nice thoughts about us.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's
[SPEAKER_05]: And enormously helpful, especially since, I don't know, as John points out, when we don't ask, it's only the negative reviews to go up.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're liking this, then, you know, pass the word on, we really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: And also, do check out the separate severance feed where you can catch up on season 1 because season 2 is starting January 17.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, January 17th is also the season 2 finale for silo, which is on the separate wool shift dust feed.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, um, I'm leading that silo coverage over there, wrapping up in the coming weeks and John, you've been watching, uh, I think everyone likes episode 9 a lot, no spoilers, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, it's not my favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, okay, so I'll see you soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Favorite.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a favorite episode of the season, but I like the episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm very interested to know what a certain word means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, they dropped a term at the end of the episode that I'm guessing will be explained in the finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting, oh, I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I know what reveals coming in the finale.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm very excited about this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, and also, and we'll shift us, you know, as we wind down this silo season, we're shifting gears into our doon coverage.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've got that five part breakdown of the doon book and the public feed, we're going to be covering the doon prequel novels in the book club feed.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, you can find all that information over on the wool shift dust feed and also if you go into the link tree and the show notes, you can find links to all these things plus the other podcasts and the feed the star was kind of timeline podcast radio active ramblings properly Howard rings and rituals and never mind the music pairing psychology and music.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, no idea what I just loaded up.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's from a pack that I have to use it in honor.
[SPEAKER_05]: In honor of the Shang-Chi episode, we've got the the Eastern Music Packs and it's called Courage.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give it a good gosh.
[SPEAKER_05]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you to our Discord server boosters, Erin Kay, Tiller the Thurler, Dork of the Ninjas, Dube 71, Athena Agilea, Tina Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, and Radioactive Richard.
[SPEAKER_05]: And thank you to all of our listeners.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you to our Lower Hound subscribers, but thank you most of all to our Lower Masters, our highest tier of subscribers, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O'Hage, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Dube 71,
[SPEAKER_05]: Brian 863 Frederick H. Sarah L. Garrett C. Eric F. Matthew M. Sarah M. TJ Meaw Andre B. Kwong Yu.
[SPEAKER_05]: Jedi Bob.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nathan T. Alex B. Aaron T. Sub-Zero.
[SPEAKER_05]: Aaron K. Daly V. Mothership 61.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nauros.
[SPEAKER_05]: Kathy W. Lestu.
[SPEAKER_05]: Jeffrey B. Elisee U. Neal F. Ben B. Scott F. Steven N. An always last.
[SPEAKER_05]: Audrion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna lie, I think that was my favorite one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was feeling that joint, I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I should explore that folder more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, John rumor has it that your wish has been granted.
[SPEAKER_05]: The wish you usually say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, look, look, fly ye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fly ye, fly ye, fly ye, fly ye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to all the birds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: recast to Chala and we are very happy that you finally come to your senses and have put a little rumor out there to say that indeed you are looking to recast to Chala.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's taken too long because too much stress and now I'm just happy that you've come to the realization that there is no
[SPEAKER_01]: No superhero character, that cannot be recast, we love Chadwick, to Challa did not die with Chadwick.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: He will always be the Black Pit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it mean that my guy, Damson Idris can't be the challenger.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Recast, Damson Idris, as the challenger.
[SPEAKER_05]: Find it.
[SPEAKER_05]: The request is getting more specific.
[SPEAKER_05]: And since it's shown, I've gotten his wish.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna do a call back to, I've got a message for Gunn.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I know where I'm seeing you, but I'm gonna start my DCU message for Gunn.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do not recast Hawkman in the DCU.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Lorhound's podcast is produced in published by the Lorhounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the Lorhound's.com slash contact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get early and add free access to all Lorhound's podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorhounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.