[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to feeding them out of the bite tube.
[SPEAKER_01]: A weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Cynthia Gannoff, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author, Dr. Ken Wilgus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Dr. Ken, welcome to your podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, thanks again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for letting me come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever worry that if you call it sick that I would just do it and be like, so, guys, this is how we handle
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a stressful one, like when she welcomes me, I was like, did I miss one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Was there one I wasn't there for?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're glad you're back.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last few weeks have been sketchy, but we've gotten through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, one time one of my kids was dating someone and was telling me,
[SPEAKER_01]: that I, well, wasn't telling me they don't tell you anything at that age.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was asking questions and they said basically chill out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were just upstairs watching a movie and I was like, because you don't go upstairs in our house with your significant other, you stay downstairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we might even send the young one in all the time, you know, for little errands.
[SPEAKER_00]: We made this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I ended up talking to the other parents who are good friends, by the way, and said,
[SPEAKER_01]: not so great on them being upstairs not our favorite can we kind of all agree that you know downstairs and blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And didn't run that by said child or said young adults just did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fox parents who parent differently what do we do there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey I I was fine with it right up till that you didn't tell your kid that you were going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Told him after.
[SPEAKER_00]: or her and you wouldn't ask your kid you would just inform them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, I think that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially since and this is going to be true for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have lots of friends and you'll make a friend in about three minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it depends a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: More and more one of the things we need to talk about is that it used to be that if you found that your kid was say smoking weed with
[SPEAKER_00]: you could guess that if I call that other kids parent, they'll be grateful that I called them.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I think, a coin flip now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not easy to guess who are these people I'm gonna be talking to and how much of their parenting is similar or different from ours.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, if it's a friend of yours, totally makes sense and your kid was fine with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of hard because I think when we're dealing with parents who parent differently, it changes pretty significantly as your kids get older because when they're little, you know, like I remember being around parents who would curse on front of their kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, that's a no go and again, off house.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're just probably not going to hang out with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how we do things.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then we get to like middle school and then there's kind of you know that maybe it's the mean mom who talks bad about other people's kids and we're like well we're not going to do that so we're going to kind of distance a little bit from those people but high school I mean it's anybody's guess because you don't actually get to pick
[SPEAKER_01]: What parents influence your kids and so talk to us a little bit about that like can you give us any Relief in knowing that we can't control it and by the way you know the ones that are trying to control it Like it doesn't work it doesn't end well for anyone when you have those parents that are trying to micro-manage Who gets to be around their kids and who doesn't who gets to host homecoming?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't like how they do things I mean that just doesn't end well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do we manage that well?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think we should talk about that parent first because feeding the mouth parents are not that parent.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that parent, the one that she really thinks and it's a mother usually.
[SPEAKER_00]: She really thinks she knows all the inside scoop because her daughter's telling her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she uses the collective way and my, you know, my daughter and we are going to be doing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: All that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Feeding the mouth parents, I think it's worth
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've heard different stories, but it's worth saying in a kind way, yeah, we're not involving ourselves like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hard thing about that parent is that especially if we're in a group together, that's the mom that looks like she's got it all together, at least at first.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's really awkward is that when you're with the mom who thinks that she is totally tight with her daughter,
[SPEAKER_00]: and knows everything's going on, and you happen to know that no, she doesn't know as much as she thinks, that, you know, so that can be tricky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in those cases, I think in a kind way, I've had feeding them out parents really be kind of a crusader that, you know, you can kind of kindly point out that, you know, there is a different way of doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in these cases, it's not even just recognizing that you can't control, for example, what house, how every household is handling things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you shouldn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should when they're little.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really should, if you find out there's something really in, unsavory going on at that house, every parent knows that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to have my eight-year-old go over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my 16 year old, where I know that they cuss, you know, or whatever, I think it's not good to say, no, I've already told you in that the family that curses like I said, quote, we don't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, again, your teenage is going to be thinking, what do you got a mouse in your pocket?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's the Wii you're talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's important instead.
[SPEAKER_00]: to be more clear that I'm not going to limit you from going over to a house because I don't think they handle everything the same way we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason you'd say that is because we know you're too old for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're more invited to communicate about, does it not bother you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's strange to hear older adults talking like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that really fun?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you think we're actually the...
[SPEAKER_00]: of uptight people.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think you really are helping them to form their own limits on these things, not just trying to obey yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it kind of goes both ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do we do in the situation where the our friends or the parents of our kids friends, they're just a lot more lenient?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of talking about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I think
[SPEAKER_00]: People can make no problem or they're willing to allow alcohol at the after party to minor some of those What do we do when there's just two lenient over the house so let's let's compare that to we know that They let their kid have the phone all night and you know do all kinds of stuff So you just gave the first example is parents that are it's best you until knowingly allowing a legal behavior
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's no reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not different parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's bad parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the trick there is that you may very well know parents who's kid vapes all the time and it seems like they don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you since they're my patients that very often they're just super tired and they don't know what else to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd be careful about that, but yeah, knowing that this is that kid you told me that he vapes and his parents know about it, I think he's going to have to come over here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not comfortable with you going over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, this kid watches movies that we don't want our teenager to watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: This kid has video screens like computer has phone all night.
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely think
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that you have to tell them it's not the same when you're over here, because I would not expect them to Basically unless that family of sure's me that they are taking up the phones by 10 o'clock every night.
[SPEAKER_00]: My kid can't go over there I don't think that's helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not helping your teenager to make their own decisions about these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You keep your own rules
[SPEAKER_00]: but on non-elegal and non-dangerous differences, I think those are better left as really topics for discussion, adult to adult, that you know, you really don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've talked about that with sleepovers, which we're not talking about, but do you, when you have a kid that's over and he has much more lacks rules with his phone, do you insist on your family rules, or do you,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, allow your kid to follow that and I think that there's variation in that, but the key is that the whole goal is not to protect my child from ever being in a household that manages things has different standards than we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what about with their, our kids are, our young adults are spending time at a house with their much more overprotective than we are?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, do we tell our kids sorry, house rules?
[SPEAKER_01]: Wherever you are, do we talk to this parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do we manage that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, so that's mostly not gonna be your problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll just be them complaining because you certainly aren't gonna back your kid up and say, well, I hope you,
[SPEAKER_00]: took your phone out, even just because it doesn't have a phone, you should, of course not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those are more opportunities to reinforce, I think it's never a good idea to badmouth other parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I usually give the message that a lot of parents are very fearful and I can understand that the reason we do it differently is because we think you're too old for that, but we don't disagree that
[SPEAKER_00]: those things are, you know, scary, whatever, how does your friend react to that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are just good things to talk to, talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the parents that you might wanna assess your relationship, if you're sent to a young off and friends with everybody, you can actually say stuff that might actually encourage them to know that there is a responsible parenting method here that is not this controlling and really
[SPEAKER_00]: encourage them in that regard.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, most of the time, very often if a parent is super over-controlling, found that what almost always goes with that is that we are also not interested in anyone else's feedback.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got this wired and you're just not doing it the way that we know that God wants us to or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, you're not going to push that, but, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes the teens, that less sense front, that come from a really restrictive home, they really love to be at your house.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna give a simple example, but I saw this once in high school and it made me laugh with one of my kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their friend came over all the time to eat our food.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the mom had put their family on, like a gluten-free diet.
[SPEAKER_01]: This kid did not have to eat the food.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the mom just,
[SPEAKER_01]: for whatever reasons, felt like that was, and so this kid would come over to our house and eat us at a house and home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I wasn't bothered from the financial side, but I always had this, oh gosh, should I tell this kid that I know well how mom feels like you can't eat that at my house?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know
[SPEAKER_01]: like what do we do in that scenario and and foods that foods the lesser of evils but there could be a lot of things they're not allowed to watch certain movies or not but they're coming to our what do we do with that assuming it's legal and our house rules are just a little bit more open because we believe that they're getting close to adulthood and we're giving more freedoms.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think, and that's a really good example that in general, I don't think you need to change your house rules, and certainly if the parent has not called you in advance and said, I need to let you know that don't let her ever have any sugar or whatever, then you just go ahead and do just deal with it the way your own house is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of things like that when you can tell,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this is good for this kid, you know, he just looks for a chance to get away and stuff himself and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's in the cat, the large category of probably none of my business and I won't necessarily say anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could certainly, like, everything else, however, use it as a starting point for what is your kid think about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and challenge them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, even though you agree with your kid, you could even say, but, you know, this
[SPEAKER_00]: what's wrong with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, press these things to really, again, if nothing else signal to your teenager, this isn't just about who's doing it right and who's doing it wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you stand on these things?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we've all heard it when our kids says every other parent lets them do this and sometimes they're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sometimes they are like, I had a friend who would not, she, I don't think she listens, but if she does, we love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she wouldn't let her kids go to the song, her, yeah, her teens go to the sonic.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the kids would go hang out at a sonic drive there after the movie or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, no, you can't be in parking lots and we all laugh for like poor kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't go to the sonic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, literally every other parent let their kid do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes it's true and sometimes it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: But either way, it's not our, how we're handling in our house and we don't have to conform to everyone else, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you have to take that into account.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll give you the other example, the kid that drinks alcohol all the time and his group does all the time, will tell you with a straight face every one at my high school drinks.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a lie, that is not true, but it is not a lie from your kids viewpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: A regularly drinking teenager,
[SPEAKER_00]: actually thinks that everybody does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny in my office when I'll confront that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like really, you can't think of a single kid at your school and they'll go, oh well, and there's this subcategory of kids that don't count.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they don't drink, but they're not real kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the point is your teenage perception is important even if they're right or wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they're begging you, look, I'm the only kid not allowed to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's worth taking that into account that, you know, is that really true and what effect is that having on you?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's, you know, if it's things that you have some flexibility on, like, you know, we really want your phone turned in at eight on weeknights.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone is still at least up and doing until midnight.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, all right, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: will give you till not you can make some change in that that's fine but the the idea of well my kid informed me indirectly by this nobody else does it that's how I kid let me know I'm doing it wrong okay then you're doing it wrong because your kid does not know
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always remind parents who really want to talk everything out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's fine to say to your kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know I've heard you think we're nuts about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you finish raising your children, then let's sit down and talk about this because at this point, I don't think you know whether we're doing a good job or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in that case, I would take seriously that, almost always a kid will not actually tell you the kid that is that is not allowed just like they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: But very often when they're really upset, they're you can tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not kidding.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's their perception.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's worth taking that seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's certain things like I hear so many seventh graders and younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: where it feels like most of their friends have smart phones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't done that, don't do that because again, you don't bring your seventh graders cigarettes either.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there are things that don't matter who's doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not good for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you may have to stand firm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and sometimes it feels like it comes
[SPEAKER_01]: at the cost of your relationship with your kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I felt that before, I felt the tension of that with one of my kids where every, this one of their good friends, like everything we did was stricter than what was happening over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like it was almost pitted against me all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's exhausting to do that, and so it's walking this balance of feeling like as a parent, well, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe in this, but I'm going to lose a relationship with my kid and the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, with teenagers, the real issue isn't why can't I do this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The real issue is my friends, it seems like, are being treated like they're older.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still being treated like a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where giving freedoms in other areas.
[SPEAKER_00]: and phone of course comes up all the time and there are limits that you'll have about phone but being able to give over other freedoms like the music you listen to and the the friends you choose and how you keep your room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that also are signaling the thing you're not liking about this phone is less likely because my parents still think I'm a child because there's these other things they're giving me freedom to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because that's usually what it is, they absolutely want their phone or your phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the most humiliating part is everybody else can do it because of the implication that their parents seem to see them as older and they hate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So giving other freedoms is hugely important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: in your practice, what's the number one, if there is a number one thing, like it is the sticking point, like when they come in there, or they always argue with the phone, or they arguing over drinking, or is it grades?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way, like what is it that makes everybody, all of us feel a little better that everybody's dealing with this, but is there one thing that you see commonly, every time if they come in, and there's a big rift, a knath that they have hired,
[SPEAKER_01]: The esteemed doctor can to speak into their lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably the esteemed guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he wouldn't available.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so we got him.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got Dr. Cannon said, but he's these phones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Founds.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am sick of these devices.
[SPEAKER_00]: because, and I've said this many times before, feeding the mouth is all about progressive freedom, giving over-progressive freedom.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I first started doing this, we were having to decide what to do about CDs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are plastic discs that music used to come on, and you'd actually
[SPEAKER_00]: could feel some sense of control even over music.
[SPEAKER_00]: So things have changed so much because there's more and more just kind of renegade stuff out there, the internet and all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to maintain
[SPEAKER_00]: this message of we are leaving you alone more and more, it becomes an increasing problem that there is this other thing streaming right into my house that I still have to exert control over.
[SPEAKER_00]: because I'm sorry, it's not good for you, but that doesn't mean that you're a child in our eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That becomes so difficult because there are teenagers that it makes a difference, but they'll talk to you like, yeah, I don't care about the room and the friends and the whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want that phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you had to just kind of do it anyway, but it even, and it does make some difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I get so tired of the entire,
[SPEAKER_00]: when will you leave me a lone battle just centering so solely around phones?
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's just so tiresome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if you could reverse it and we're a tiny bit off task, maybe with this, but now we're here, so everyone's buckle up, if you could reverse that with every family that's comes through the doors and they're fighting the phone battle, like how do we, what do we go back to in seventh grade or fifth grade other than waiting on the phone, the smart phone for a long time, what else can we can we get in front of that for people listening to have younger kids so that they're not near office later, what's the best advice on that to keep the battle from even
[SPEAKER_01]: happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, I think that if you started announcing early on from the book, the anxious generation Jonathan Heights's now kind of accepted standards, you will get a smartphone by ninth grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the meantime, here's this other phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I'm a big fan of
[SPEAKER_00]: lesser phones that adults use that will not smart phones and it's not a kid phone either.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a light phone or something that you can have the access to phone call and texting, but you don't have internet access all that stuff until the ninth grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: Think if you can establish that early,
[SPEAKER_00]: and and then add that to the other freedoms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start giving over the other freedoms.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the goal there is to you still have to hold on to certain amount of control with the phone, but keep that out of the being accused of this is just you controlling everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's control.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then last thing I wanted to ask about is
[SPEAKER_01]: The importance of trying to have parents around us that parent the way that we do, I will say that's one of the greatest gifts that I've had in my parenting journey is like-minded parents, that my kids actually like their kids, they like to hang out, and just I don't have to think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they're at that person's house, like we're good to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know we don't always get that choice, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, our kids are friends with who their friends with, but that is something,
[SPEAKER_01]: that is a game changer and so for us that happened a lot through the school my kids went to they went to private Christian school and not everybody has that and in some of the private Christian schools it's you know that's not through experience you're still fighting the battle but church like talk to us about that like just trying to have that community around us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what we're talking about is that you you really do need to be very
[SPEAKER_00]: about the parenting community you hang with.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for people in art Christian, if there's a school that you believe in and you're paying for your kid to go there, almost always that school has a community of other like-minded parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can only advertise, you need them more than ever to encourage your children to hang with those people, you kind of encourage each other as parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, for us, as Christian Church is a huge deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you mentioned, not all churches are good at that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just came from a medium-sized church that has a very involved set of parents that are even wrestling through some of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: what I come there's a chunk of it that everyone kind of nods and smiles and then there's a chunk where like people are like whoa whoa wait a minute you're talking about letting go that early whatever these things but the key is that I always encourage them is yeah talk together about this if you all come to an agreement that Dr. Lewis was way off about this thing
[SPEAKER_00]: It's better than just one of you coming to disagreement about that so that you can support each other community is more important now than ever so that you have like minded parents which means getting together with friends and talking about hey what are you all going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... when it comes to dating what are y'all gonna do when it comes to phones uh... that kind of thing more and more leaders as well schools don't do it as much but i've got i know more and more church leaders that student ministers for example that do try to help kind of encourage this a lot of times they're waiting to be told is at some you guys want uh... you know they get a lot of criticism from parents
[SPEAKER_00]: The parents that don't think that she or he is doing it right or right up front, so you really want to talk to your student ministers about how can we kind of encourage more of a community among parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: That kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I think well, well taken that.
[SPEAKER_01]: be intentional about where you do have your kids where you are affiliated with and finding like-minded.
[SPEAKER_01]: Flipside of that, I was just listening to some friends that were all talking and asking each other, they had gone on a senior trip, a girl's school, I think, with a boy's school, like two private schools, whatever, and this trip to Mexico for a senior trip and apparently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and apparently you had to have wristbands to go and certain pools because that's a adult pool and some kids weren't 18 and so Some of them are in Mexico How do we need to go to Colorado?
[SPEAKER_01]: Some moms lied and so their kid could have a wristband but other moms weren't willing to lie and they were mad because their kids were the only ones It couldn't get the adult pool Well, you can't get the adult pool because you know alcohol's free there and anyway, this whole long scenario and so everybody's like, okay, what would you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And to your point I was like I wouldn't have gone to Mexico not because I'm some
[SPEAKER_01]: phenomenal parent or anything like that but just because like pre-think some things but in one of them said but I didn't want my kid to miss out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about that as we wrap up like yes, so important to surround yourselves like whatever that looks like parents that you think parent the way you parent support what you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Equally important to not put yourself or your kid in places where you know there's going to be a lot of variance in parenting, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: See, that's a really good point because I think I've mentioned on this program before.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a good church in the Dallas area that I've gone to like every three years they have me back because these are good involved parents with what I call a limited insanity.
[SPEAKER_00]: of we take our seniors to Mexico.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tradition.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to be brought back every two or three years going, can I just ask you why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because many of you've come to me concerned about alcohol.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an alcohol crazy thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: that, yeah, we don't want our kids drinking a bunch, but I mean, I want to be a part of the max culture of why.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we always, let's plan a trip to the mountains instead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to cabin in the woods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's an example of what can otherwise be.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a pretty good community.
[SPEAKER_00]: and there is occasionally it to step up and in those cases it's like crazy it's like am I the only one not thinking about this and you know and nope it's it's it's loony to think that we should allow our seniors to be able to go and you know where they can't be monitored on their alcohol why what are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and it does, I mean, when your kids says everybody's getting you on that trip, it kind of feels that way too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not all that wrong, but yeah, you won't be able to have a couple of other Sethia could do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have a couple of other families that we all offer an alternate trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going instead to whatever because we're not crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny and they also said there's a big group that goes to this certain area in Florida the beach or whatever and that there's so much drinking there and all the kids get their own like back house and I was like see there again Not the back house with with Cynthia again often it may be but I don't know about that either so just some of that is getting in front like just I think for
[SPEAKER_01]: it's so hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel it deeply for people because it's so hard when you want your kid to be a part of all the things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet at the same time, you know that this probably isn't going to end well for our relationship or for you doing the right thing and just stepping into that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I would just say as a last thought on that, if they are about to go to college, is that a consideration?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're going to do what they want to do in college.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I let
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, that's that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think there's a difference between making the decision that I don't think you should do that, but at this stage, it's your senior year if you want to go and you have the money that's fine, but we were talking about parents that actually facilitate it, they go, you know, and and again, the issue isn't even should parents be drinking alcohol when their teenagers know that's that's not the issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: the issue is drunkenness and teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You look up one of our previous episodes about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That falls under the category of even a good community of parents that have lost their kind of their bounds when it came to the use of alcohol because as I've mentioned many times, teenagers do not drink.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get drunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's always the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: My husband's favorite quote of years before I was ever on this podcast, but you were on my one of my podcasts and he listened to it and he said my favorite doctor kid and quote is teenagers never just get nice merlow and push it around they get a case of keystone in there drunk and so my husband says all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's keystone even a beer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know it was so much of the kids, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a little talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't even get good beer, did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: You got least on line.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're an adult, and then you can actually enjoy beer.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is nuts.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was looking like what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever old man, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Dr. Ken will thank you and if anyone miss last week, we talked out of summer checklist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things to be thinking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are headed into summer, like it or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get a checklist, not like my checklist when I did a bucket list that failed.
[SPEAKER_01]: We mean a legit checklist, so yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate you, Dr. Ken.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.