[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to the Lorehouse podcast where your guides to distant stars.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm John and they had to sedate me to get me to do this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Alicia, ready to karaoke my way through the end of the world and I'm Marilyn and singing is my favorite form of language and this is our coverage of the 2026 film Project Hail Mary.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to be starting with some spoiler-free fresh takes if there's anyone out there who hasn't seen the movie yet, which drops on digital May 12th.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is, uh, you might question the timing of this podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, please send any feedback you might have to lower hounds at the lower hounds.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll find that in all of our other links in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, including for if you would like to join our subscriber.
[SPEAKER_02]: feeds and gets ad free access to everything in extra bonus episodes each month, like misery.
[SPEAKER_06]: And hearing me in Alicia debate what is a finger food?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very important.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not sushi.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think sushi, we ended up ruling it's not a finger food.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you use utensils normally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I guess I'm rude.
[SPEAKER_01]: The joke.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it depends on the kind of sushi.
[SPEAKER_06]: See, this is, you got a private favor.
[SPEAKER_01]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a part of this discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: You missed my point of view entirely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, Abby, I backed it up in her comments that there are certain types.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kimbap, sushi, you can eat with your hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, I have no idea if what Hannahford makes this kimbap or not, but it's delicious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it and I eat it with my fingers.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kind wrapped in seaweed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's wrapped in rice in this case.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're seaweed in the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we dressed enough now?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's so hard to talk about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're only right here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm leaving it in.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to have enough fish in the sea because there is no sea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's worth it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me and on earth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything's going to die.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right, so we're doing a spoiler-free intro, you know, light spoilers, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Like the premise is pretty much just in the trailer.
[SPEAKER_06]: So that's what we'll spoil, um, but we will get into the actual plot details and all the twists and turns after a break.
[SPEAKER_06]: For now, let's get ready to hot-ticks, Marilyn, other than your sushi hot-ticks or cold-ticks, it's usually served cold.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_06]: What's your hot-tick on the movie?
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[UNKNOWN]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely love this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: The music, the visuals, the colors, the creativity.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you supposed to imagine a civilization that is not only unlike yours, but is an entire star system away?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I realize this is based on a book, but you still have to be creative visually to transfer from page to screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the sheer creativity of it all is breathtaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's just such a seamless haul.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so afraid that when Oscar time comes around this will be so far back and everybody's rear view mirror that they may have forgotten just what is really astonishing achievement it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Release about the same time as sinners or as everything everywhere all at once in 2022.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, just saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, Oscar.
[SPEAKER_06]: Also, after Riot Gosling did his Ken Song at the Oscars, hello.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that anyone will ever forget a Riot Gosling movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think they're going to use any excuse they can to get Riot Gosling to perform again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if they have forgotten it in the past, I truly hope they will not forget it in the future because this is definitely hope, punk.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you, Alicia?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is definitely, so I came into this as an Andy Weir fan first and foremost.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was introduced him through the novel The Martian.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was going to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually participated in an interview with him on the night before The Martian movie released.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've read all of his books.
[SPEAKER_02]: My favorite is actually a micro short story of his, you can find online for free called The Egg.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's even an animated version you can find on YouTube, but yeah, I won't spoil that, but anyway, I have a big Andy weird fan, and for me the Martian was, I was slightly, mildly disappointed with it to be honest, I think I just missed the, some of my favorite parts were cut out, basically.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so for this, I was going in trepidacious, but I think that it was really a phenomenal adaptation achievement.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I felt a bit rushed through what I knew the book plot to be, like I think it would have made an even better TV show, but this year's scale of it was just,
[SPEAKER_02]: gorgeous memorable visuals.
[SPEAKER_02]: I even sat all the way through the credits.
[SPEAKER_02]: I rewatched it earlier today, sat all the way through the credits because it's so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, oh yeah, of course I would love if they went deeper on the science and linguistics and you know, they had to leave some plot elements out, but what they do fit in, it is amazing how much they're able to fit in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I really identify with the main character because I am also someone who thinks that we are too limited in the way we think about the other potential life like why do we assume everything has to look like us every planet has to look like ours so I love a story that
[SPEAKER_02]: explores that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously Ryan Gosling was, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: If somebody's going to hold an entire movie basically on his own, he did a great job with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I love fun facts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, the fact there's one point where he's dancing with a mop that they apparently called Moppy Ring Walt on the set.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just, that was improvised, you know, just, and the fact that they could
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to look it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the puppeteer, James Ortiz, James Ortiz, I hope he doesn't get forgotten for the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been deemed he's eligible in the supporting actor category and the fact that he was able to be live on set and short there was, he was working with other people to operate the puppets.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that was his voice that was, you know, his improvised puppetry and some of my favorite
[SPEAKER_02]: Like such a polished movie at the same time, so I just think it's a phenomenal cinematic achievement.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about you, Jam?
[SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely agreed on all points, phenomenal the puppetry.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I love a good puppet.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm sad.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was sad for a while because it was going away.
[SPEAKER_06]: Especially, you know, I feel like CGI Yoda was a turning point.
[SPEAKER_06]: And there was a notable shift when Yoda in the sequel trilogy became a puppet again.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that we've had a nice shift back towards practical effects.
[SPEAKER_06]: Since then, I think people have remembered why they, like, the Lord of the Rings movies, there's, there's been this shift of, like, could not everything.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think part of it is, like, the studio's realized.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's very expensive to have everything be special effects.
[SPEAKER_06]: But it's also, like, man, there's something lost when you do everything digital.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so I was very excited for this movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: I read the book for the first time last year.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I did the audiobook because I was told, do the audiobook for reasons that no one can tell you without spoilers?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you got me to do the audiobook the same way, too.
[SPEAKER_06]: and it's great.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's really great as an audiobook for reasons that I think are clear if you watch the movie, why it would be great as an audiobook compared to a text book.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was worried about Ryan Gosling.
[SPEAKER_06]: Not because I think Ryan Gosling is a bad actor, I think he's wonderful, I think he's a great actor, but he is Ryan Gosling.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I wanted grace, the main character, to be a nobody.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought that having someone who would believeably be this just like, you know, rinky-dink kind of scientists.
[SPEAKER_06]: He is a scientist, but you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_06]: Rinky-dink nerdy guy who's like, doesn't quite know what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, I don't know if that's leading man energy.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the whole point to my mind.
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, all right, we'll get into it.
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, I was really worried about Ryan Gosling once I watch it I was like, all right, he can do this like he's fine.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ryan Gosling amazing actor really inhabits the roles he's in.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought he was great.
[SPEAKER_06]: He emoted at the right times.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is such a difficult thing to act alone in a room.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of my major cuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: What an amazing job he did.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, I'm sorry for ever doubting you Ryan.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, not that you need another acolyte.
[SPEAKER_06]: You don't need this random podcast or on top of all your awards.
[SPEAKER_06]: But sorry for doubting you Ryan.
[SPEAKER_06]: And of course, you know, small cast, but everyone did a great job.
[SPEAKER_06]: Everyone was amazing from Sandra Hulu.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: really great strad.
[SPEAKER_06]: I believe that that was the woman from the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: I did not question that at any point.
[SPEAKER_02]: She in the book she's Dutch and Sunday is German, but I think that was it was the right choice A just because of the casting and B she kind of seems German anyway to be honest.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah we I don't want to I don't want to spoil into the public yet.
[SPEAKER_06]: I see what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_06]: I see what you're saying there.
[SPEAKER_06]: And Carl, Carl expanding Carl's role was great, too, that was Lionel voice.
[SPEAKER_06]: Really, really, really great.
[SPEAKER_06]: So there were a few cuts from the books that I thought would have been easy to include that I wish they would have kept, but we can we can get into that when we get into spoilers for now.
[SPEAKER_06]: I just wanted to say, you know, 10 out of a 10 movie for me.
[SPEAKER_06]: I only got the chance to see it once, but I am hoping to see it again now that as of this publishing of this podcast, not quite when we're recording it, it's going to be available at home.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will be very surprised if anything knocks it off my number one on my top 10 list for this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, Marilyn, it's the only movie I've watched this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll be too John, but I'm going to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: She've detected next Tuesday and I kind of don't think it's going to top.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it will be very pleasant and enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_02]: No problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: People seem to like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to watching that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking this one, it's currently number five on my list.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think about the four in front of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would definitely not recommend any of them to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel you admit you want to see it.
[UNKNOWN]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_06]: So let's get into, you know, some of these spoiler light details.
[SPEAKER_06]: So if you want absolutely no spoilers, I guess pop off now, but right now I'm just going to give you the like from the trailer, uh, log line, which is, uh, the I wrote this.
[SPEAKER_06]: I figured you could summarize this movie pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_06]: The sun is dying.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ryan Gosling is shot into space to save the world all by himself or is he?
[SPEAKER_06]: that's the movie right yeah yeah so that's I mean it's I feel like Andy we're so good at like simple premise but executed flawlessly
[SPEAKER_06]: And here we are, and we are of course made famous by his book, The Martian, that was adapted earlier, I don't remember the year I should have written it down, but with Matt Damon, of course, really took me out of the movie when he said, how do you like the apples, but you know what you can't win them all?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know that the science, the shit out of this isn't in the book, that famous time for the movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_06]: Wait, that's from the Martian book.
[SPEAKER_06]: You're saying?
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not in the Martian book, but it's the foremost famous line from the movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I see where you're saying.
[SPEAKER_06]: I see where you're saying.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so, as Alicia mentioned earlier, it's now out on paid video on demand the day that you are hearing this.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, check it out.
[SPEAKER_06]: If you haven't watched it.
[SPEAKER_06]: production details.
[SPEAKER_06]: We have a few interesting things here.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was written by Drew Goddard who wrote The Martian, again, World War Z Netflix's Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was surprised to see.
[SPEAKER_06]: And the directors were Phil Lord and Christopher Miller who are a duo, known for 21 Jump Street, the Spiderverse movies they produced, and they did the Lego movies, I guess.
[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't write that down in here, but I wonder, I wonder,
[SPEAKER_06]: If the Lego movie had some help with how they adapted a certain character, okay, yeah, you know, hmm, I don't know, thoughts.
[SPEAKER_06]: Starring as we mentioned, right, okay, I don't know if I have more, but.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm not at all because I know what you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right, all right, let's go.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's go to the cast starring Ryan Gosling, it's Andrew Huller.
[SPEAKER_06]: James Ortiz and Lionel Boyce with a budget of 248 million gross and a box office of 656 million.
[SPEAKER_06]: These are old-time numbers, you know?
[SPEAKER_06]: These are like pre-pandemic movie numbers, I feel like.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And ratings and reviews right in the middle is 94%.
[SPEAKER_06]: Metacritic 77% letter box Alicia's favorite for three, which is really high.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you always say like anything about four is like insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, no, anything about before is like an exceptional film.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think like the highest I've ever seen is like 4.4 and that usually it doesn't last sound.
[SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we, you know, we have a bunch of tests that we do around here.
[SPEAKER_06]: They've kind of developed over inside jokes over time.
[SPEAKER_06]: So if you need any more explanation, feel free to write it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have the Bukillus scale for violence in Maryland.
[SPEAKER_06]: If I may say so, you saw it twice.
[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm going to say this has to be in the negative.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still consider zero to be wherever I'm comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, it's a double sided scale, which
[SPEAKER_01]: is at the very outer limits of my mathematical competencies, but yeah, no, no violence whatsoever to be worried about in this one, as far as I'm concerned.
[SPEAKER_06]: David will be happy for us to pull in a few more tests.
[SPEAKER_06]: No.
[SPEAKER_06]: The Sanderson Slider for adaptation that is, is it more of an inspired by or more of a direct adaptation?
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's indisendably a direct adaptation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, very little left out, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the shipy test.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remarkably little, even though I did the calculations, and I think they could only adapt like 11% of the runtime.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know what you're saying there.
[SPEAKER_02]: The book.
[SPEAKER_02]: The book is like, I don't know, the runtime of the movie versus the book, even though the movie's almost three hours, it's only 11%, so they had to cut out a lot.
[SPEAKER_06]: But did they because, like, you could spend a minute describing just the physicality of a scene that you could do in 10 seconds in a movie?
[SPEAKER_01]: sure i mean they did cut out a lot that i think they did it well as i said okay and i will be honest and say i's i's wiped a couple of pages because i really didn't want to know the science of it just not what i was there for so uh the Marilyn boring test right no no no just
[SPEAKER_06]: Marilyn, you were about to jump into the shippy test?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the shippy test.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, golly, if anything ever captured the core, the original this one does, and it spades.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is very, very impressive for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They left out one interesting piece, which I'll talk about later from the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really glad they did actually on the whole.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have some ideas as to why they might have, but we'll get there when we get there.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how this felt perfect film paradox works.
[SPEAKER_06]: I've never figured it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, do you think it is a perfect, it is perfectly, trying to, it's perfectly achieving what it's trying to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it's a pretty question for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Can I answer your question with a question?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's paradox.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Direct it.
[SPEAKER_02]: David.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and then there was this villain analysis framework I was like, and this is this is something that I think is really interesting about this story and I think it's common to where it's works right there's really no villain right no traditional villain.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's no antagonists.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's not stuck in this but not a villain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gravity's the villain sometimes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: At least we're going to need a we're going to need your hope punk analysis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, I mean, definitely hopeunk.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only, well, I can't really elaborate upon that too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about, I mean, but it is about ultimately about the world scientists from the world coming together.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's part of the premise to solve this problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, you know, it looks quite bleak, but they're like, we're not given up.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are, um, we're gonna give it everything we got in, uh, we're gonna find a way to survive.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and that's the story of humanity.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, let's take a quick break, come back, and let's lift the spoiler bell because why not?
[SPEAKER_06]: All right, we're back.
[SPEAKER_06]: Full spoilers for the movie and the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I mean, the book, you know, if you watch the movie, you know, all the major points.
[SPEAKER_06]: So we're just going to be clarifying some differences between the movie and the book at certain points.
[SPEAKER_06]: But before we get into the recap, I want to pull in David, David sent in another point for analysis about loan spacemen.
[SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to pull that in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, David here.
[SPEAKER_00]: After finishing Project Hail Mary, I thought, wait a minute, this film sits inside a bigger storytelling tradition.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it turns out that not only does it, but that tradition goes back all the way to 1719.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting together a full essay on that argument, and I'll share that when it's done, but for today, I thought it would be helpful just to have a few other titles as Comps, films that are working in the same territory, the lone figure in the void, solving their way through the impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm calling it the lone space band genre.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I think is a defensible, starting canon 11 films in chronological order.
[SPEAKER_00]: Starting off with 2001, a space Odyssey, 1968, it's the foundational text, Kubrick sets the grammar for everything else that follows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we have silent running from 1972, one man, his drones, and an ethical problem nobody is there to check him on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we go to Salaris, 1972, by Tarkovsky, the metaphysical branch.
[SPEAKER_00]: The horror isn't external, it's grief.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we go to the absurdist branch, 1974, dark star, what isolation actually does to a person over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we have Alien in 1979, the horror branch, and the first of only two women in this entire canon, Ripley wins the way everyone on this list wins.
[SPEAKER_00]: She thinks her way through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we have Sunshine from 2007, an engineering procedural, psychological breakdown, and spiritual experience all three layered on top of each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we go to Moon from 2009, maybe the purist modern version of the motif, a man solving a mystery that turns out to be about himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we jump up to gravity in 2013, Sandra Bullock, the only solo female protagonist in the canon, alone from the start figuring out the next problem before the last one kills her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we have interstellar 2014, one pilot, time dilated, alone testing physics and faith simultaneously.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Martian 2015, same author is Hail Mary.
[SPEAKER_00]: The humor isn't relief from the stakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the coping mechanism.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Ad Astra from 2019, the dark mirror version of Hail Mary maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same journey, same father figure stakes, but grief instead of wonder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, in my full essay, I've got a few honorable mentions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll have that out soon, and I should note that I didn't love Project Hail Mary the Way a lot of you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would be long, and I thought some of the storytelling choices cheapened what the film was reaching for.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I still think this is a film that absolutely should be seen because of what it adds to this tradition.
[SPEAKER_00]: What Grace chooses when his agency has been completely stripped away is something this motif has almost never tried before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we could call it the Hope Punk branch of the genre.
[SPEAKER_00]: He chooses curiosity over despair, wonder over fear, hope over anger.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this argument is going to be the subject of a fuller audio essay I'm putting together, and I'll post that once it's ready to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the meantime, looking forward to hearing the full discussion for the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Dr. later.
[SPEAKER_06]: I like how David says he didn't love it as much as a lot of other people and then goes on to talk about why it's so great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's fun.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think he's going to talk himself into liking him more.
[SPEAKER_02]: He said he didn't want to like it for some reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think because he was like that didn't want to like because of the trope I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if it was also a bit of Frank.
[SPEAKER_02]: Frank has like allergy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do, yeah, I think that was a great list.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I like the, it's very good point that this loan space person trope is about thinking your way out of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to add one new one to the list that I recommend, it's a Ukrainian movie that just came out, called you, just the letter you, you are the universe, is the English title.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's about basically like a Ukrainian space garbage man who is out in doing a run.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like about to get fired.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's heading back to Earth.
[SPEAKER_02]: He takes it's like a two-year round trip thing and the Earth explodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he's on his own with his robots, but then it seems there's a French scientist thousands of miles away.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hmm, you know, you talked about the the trope of and David did his whole thing about the trope of the, uh, the loan space van.
[SPEAKER_06]: I, I want to point out and I've said this before a trope is not a problem in and of itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_06]: it's to me it is a is a color on the palette for the artist you know we we can't tell stories without shared troops right we can't identify with each other without these familiar points no stories 100% original
[SPEAKER_06]: I almost feel like it's a, a poor workman blames his tools kind of thing, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's not the trope itself.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's the use of the trope that bothers people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's the the tired way of using a trope.
[SPEAKER_01]: That will bother us when you're lazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But trope I would substitute archetype.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, to everything you just said, we have these archetypes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They live in the back of our minds.
[SPEAKER_01]: They vary from culture to culture, some cultures favor one more than another.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not all absolute, the way young and here with a thousand faces Joseph Campbell insisted it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yep, it's there.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: His also, I was laughing when he said that there was only one that had a woman as the lone space person.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we were reminded me of what was a Sally Ride getting sent to space for a seven-day journey
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm telling you, they were like 100s enough, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: It seems like what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really sure we could use that space for other things.
[SPEAKER_06]: For seven days, yeah, she was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: 100's probably right right when I think even the Artemis to had some gendered issues going on there, which is ironic given that they finally named one after a female goddess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: That for archetypes and we know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's me scales a bit.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's meet our favorite little archetype
[SPEAKER_06]: Rylan Grace, a former middle school science teacher, has a woken in space.
[SPEAKER_06]: As he recovers his memories, he remembers that he was sent on a suicide mission to save all humankind from the death of the sun at the hands of astrophage, a mysterious organism that is consuming with sun's energy.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, this is the premise.
[SPEAKER_06]: By the way, may I add, my Catholic brain reawoken, reawakened for a moment when I was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right for you, John.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like, I know that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, of course I always go to Notre Dame because I went to the school in the Midwest.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Hail Mary Pass, right, which may be more of what they were thinking of when they did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also felt the full of gracing and of course this is a ship that is full of grace.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, right, right, land grace.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: So what's the thoughts on the set-up, you know, like this is the thing I was most worried about with this adaptation other than the Ryan Gosling of it is It is a very first person narrative
[SPEAKER_06]: idea to have this guy coming out of a coma, slowly realizing that he's in space, that who he was, who, you know, why he knows all this stuff, he's like, oh, I'm smart, he's in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's a lot more of a slow burn, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Whereas in the first like 10 minutes of the movie, you pretty much have like a third of the book probably of him just waking up and figuring things out.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's probably, I don't know about YouTube, but I feel like that's most of what they cut out.
[SPEAKER_06]: Was him kind of discovering for himself, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wouldn't say that's most of what they cut out, but it's definitely, yeah, they obviously had to handle it differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved the opening montage, the physical comedy of him, like fashing out of the, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: movie in general just did a great job of you know taking the elements of the story that we love the friendship but you know the cooperation, the exploration and just marrying that with things you can only do in physical you know when you can visually like that that physical comedy like the way they portrayed and many of the space scenes just gobsmackingly gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_01]: the comedy between himself and the medical robot and then himself and the computer and just all the different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I suddenly realized, yeah, there's at least two barfing jokes.
[SPEAKER_01]: both of which I laughed at uproarously when they were going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that says about my maturity, I don't know, but it doesn't really matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to remember, the book said that they gave Grace a drug to keep him in Malaysia so that he would forget why he was there for a couple of days or weeks so that the other two
[SPEAKER_01]: Companions could slowly working up to speed to the by the time he did remember everything maybe it wouldn't be quite such a shock in this case i just had the impression that the end usually was part of the induced coma yeah so i'm not sure they're made it clear but not that i care that much but it was i was serious the yada yada passed a lot of this i think
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, there's also there's the whole thing in the book where you had to have a certain gene in order to be able to survive the medically induced coma and that's one of the reasons why he was forced into it in the end because they knew that he had the gene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then yeah, that that raises even more of a question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did the other two die we still don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, interesting neither of book no film answered that question, but I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: the building of the background of that in the book was very useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in the film to some degree viewers might just might not care that much.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're already there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He survived.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't moving on.
[SPEAKER_01]: probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I liked it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it gave that sort of, I liked the context and clearly the scientific basis was very important to the author in the book, demonstrating again and again.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it was more when we got on board ship and Grace was spending, you know, pages and pages making computations and picking is out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by that time I was like, okay, I know this is going to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm less interested in how he worked it out, but it's going to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just know that it's going to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's go on to the place where it has worked and we care about that.
[SPEAKER_06]: See, I like those parts because those, that's bad for people like me who don't really have physics and high school and never take it again.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then I never took physics at all.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I remember this, so it was fun.
[SPEAKER_06]: I want to ask you, Marilyn, do you think, since your, well, right in this verse, do you think he's the spiritual successor to Asimov in the sci-fi realm,
[UNKNOWN]: You
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not qualified to say at this point, Sean, because I've only read one of his books.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say, I've read his three books.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've read them all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say no because he is more, I mean, okay, I've read a lot less as more than you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, take that for what it's worth.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that Andy Weir in the novels, he's less focused on the spiritual philosophical side
[SPEAKER_02]: character and science side, but I know that as I say this, I'm thinking about, you know, we'll talk about later.
[SPEAKER_02]: The biggest change, I think they made from the thing they took out in the movie is, I guess we can bring it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, maybe we want to save it till the end for the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_06]: Because you're going to forget, you're going to forget.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually, it's in the notes later, it's in the notes later.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the whole thing about Antarctica.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly, in Sierra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, that I love his short story, the egg, which is about, oh, I don't want to spoil it because it's literally like a five minute read, but it's about, I think about it all the time on an almost daily basis, just because it's about experiencing everything to become a more, about a more full version, a more full person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, just based upon my obviously limited sample, as Amos spends a lot more time looking at societies.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if that's true if we are not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get, I mean, it gets put in, I think, but largely to serve his most important plot point, which is how do individuals respond to,
[SPEAKER_01]: space and the biological mysteries and the, you know, the physics of it all those kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really have the sense of him being much more interested in those things and that kind of interaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost as if asthma takes all of that for granted.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's more interested in telling stories about the individuals and the cultures.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, information about you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your foundation, how that knowledge all manifests and what are some of the things that we carry with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, as I'm off, also did the lazy thing of deciding that the whole galaxy had been seeded by nothing but human beings.
[SPEAKER_01]: So many times, you got to a sentient species.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always human, which I think we're all family-friendly, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Decritusize.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Frank Herbert, I mean, Star Trek started at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, it didn't start on me, but in terms of a lot of people's first introduction, Star Trek started at all by just pasting prosthetics and fur on people's faces and giving that underlying assumption that that it was all humanoid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand why they did it from a practical standpoint.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is not really, could not be really a reflection of how life would develop another fascism.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: Frank Herbert expressly made it only human, but the humans who can evolve away from each other in different direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you think that's Leilaxu for those, you know, but he did it to sort of limit the scope of storytelling in this galaxy wide thing in a way.
[SPEAKER_06]: And as a model do that too, he'll say, you know, these humans when this direction, these humans in that direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'll say the robot books by asthma are more character-focused than the foundation books.
[SPEAKER_06]: The foundation books are obviously, you know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's because- Well, that's because- Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ten to thousands of years.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chronology.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Although, I'll say, I'm on the last foundation book and I've spent about two books.
[SPEAKER_06]: focused right in on this guy i do not like so uh so which one you calling the last one it's it's well the last one chronologically so foundation earth yeah yeah and i'm just uh i'm sick of trees i'll just say it
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you have every justification for that, like John, don't, don't apologize, don't apologize to me for it because I don't, I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was saying to Alicia on second breakfast, now we're off the rail, but I was saying to Alicia on second breakfast, like, I hope they have a good plan for taking very small bits of this and making them more interesting in the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure they do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they know.
[SPEAKER_02]: um but it's for for this as far as what Marilyn was saying about the balance of science um I like John do really enjoy those parts and so I was like I gave this four and a half stars and the reason it didn't give it five stars is like little details like the fact they weren't following any lab protocols on the ship or at least inconsistently following them like oh
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I miss those things, but I thought it was an excellent portrayal of zero gravity and astronauts who have been in zero gravity, because apparently Artemis too, they watched the film before they heard that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, that's very humbling, humbling around and stuff that's very accurate.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this also means they're not going to adapt next.
[SPEAKER_02]: The same team is going to adapt Andy Weir's second novel.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the project Hill Mary's a third, but a second novel Artemis, this goes back to the community question that we were talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is actually, it's a different sort of feel from these other two.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's set on a small town on the moon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, it's like a noir-rich crime thriller on the moon, but one of the things held holding them back from adapting it is it's at least popular novel, which I think is unfair.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the Rosario Dawson audiobook, but it's one-third the gravity of Earth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now for this movie, they figured out that problem, so now they can do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you, do your reference to the watching him in zero gravity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved the way his one of his really objections to being chosen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't, I haven't swam in the pool, I haven't done it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the astronauts, oh, we just do that for the TV situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did enjoy how they depicted his whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both in the film and in the book, that was one of the things that I did enjoy, was his process.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like his process of figuring things out in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We see him doing stuff to make it work in the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I enjoy being in his mind for that part.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't enjoy it when he whips up the hand calculator or his version of that and starts calculating stuff on it now.
[SPEAKER_06]: We all like our food at different spice levels.
[SPEAKER_06]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I, yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I love the science stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think.
[SPEAKER_06]: The curiosity of Rylan Grace is the key to his character, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a whole paragraph in this.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like round this whole movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just his sense of wonder.
[SPEAKER_06]: Almost, almost childlike, but you get this sense of, this is something I explored in the novel Pure and I say, I don't know if I have ever read it either.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, have we forgotten how to, and it's funny, because he's very rational on this, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: He's very scientific based, but have we forgotten how to wonder?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, is that a problem in society that we've just forgotten how to wonder?
[SPEAKER_01]: Another word for that is awe that we definitely forgotten that.
[SPEAKER_06]: So speaking of discoveries in wonder, in flashbacks we see grace recruited by Eva Stratt, a no-nonsense project manager in tent on saving humanity, impressed with his paper on non-water life possibilities, she allows him to work on the astrophage,
[SPEAKER_06]: when Grace figures out how to reproduce astrophased with the help of Carl, he gets fully looped in onto the project.
[SPEAKER_06]: He reads enough of the Organisms to act as a fuel for a ship that will become known as the Hail Mary, and he helps train the astronauts who will be aboard.
[SPEAKER_06]: So what would you think of, you know, this was a nonlinear story, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: We were doing a lot of flashbacks here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought there was an excellent device.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it's almost as if we're seeing we're living visually through the screen, him remembering words and pieces and putting it together, which is an effect also what happens in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a much less lumpy process, perhaps, or it's a much more elegant process in the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: That you think of the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do, because like you keep flipping back and forth and where this is all happening,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not technically to me somehow, but maybe that's just visual versus textual.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it felt more like a driving mystery in the book, whereas in the movie, it just felt like we're editing together two timelines.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: But in the movie, I thought they did a better job of, maybe not.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, maybe not.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's, but here, okay, here's the question is, Marilyn, you watch the movie then, right the book, then watch the movie again?
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct whereas we both read the book before we watch the movie so maybe seems less mysterious because we knew each difference because we knew what was happening
[SPEAKER_01]: huge difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the few examples of my life where I think I actually like the film better than the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, better than the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm here for a folks.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, what I was going to say is I thought that they did a really good job in the movie, especially of making the flashbacks sit nicely tonally, explore the same themes as what was happening in the present.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that's why it worked really well.
[SPEAKER_06]: That felt more aligned, I thought, in the movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: But again, it's been about a year since I read the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: I could just be misremembering things.
[SPEAKER_06]: But they did a really great job of that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It really sang the way that they aligned these pipes.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's such a mixed metaphor.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, my God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Move on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mix away.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mix away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really liked overall the, I like this version of the Averstrat better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, even a film version.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the film version.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if she's not touched, but she's like um yeah, she's she's very serious She's very focused still, but they're still you see a bit more of her softer side You see a bit more kindness from her, but there's all like you see her in the beginning He says it took like 200 years to figure out how bacteria worked.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please do it faster
[SPEAKER_06]: It was really funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: Chairman De Pen, humor, but then like when she brings them into the meeting to explain how he and Carl made a baby, I just love the energy of that meeting and he asks a question and she points it to the air and everyone goes, we don't know, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just, like, the world's ending, yeah, but we can have some fun figuring out what we're going to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I wasn't sure the first time how I felt about, I don't know if you guys agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I particularly John since you're also a book first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think Ryland came across as more bumbling in the movie version versus the book?
[SPEAKER_06]: No, I thought he was pretty bumbling in the book, too.
[SPEAKER_06]: I found him pretty.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's why I didn't want Ryan Gosling at first, because I thought Ryan Gosling would be too cool for school compared to... Oh, so you saw Barbie, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but like, I don't know, he still got Riz, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, even when he's a Barbie, he's got some Riz going on.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I didn't want to lose that clumsiness of Rylan Grace.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just like the fact that you used that expression, John, because he was absolutely everybody's much cool as he needed to be for school.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to my mind, that was the whole point of why he could succeed at this, but I'd have that more later on down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to stop strut in the film much better than the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in part, because again, visual medium,
[SPEAKER_01]: I at least could see the cost it was to her, to have to make the decision she was making, to have to have that absolute stone front.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have time for emotional feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, we try to accommodate them when we can, but we just don't have time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And wow, that's got to be hard because of the amount of,
[SPEAKER_01]: misery and frustration in whatever that she knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's causing, and then of course, when she eventually has to literally drag Grace and stuff him on the ship, she knows how horrible betrayal that's going to feel to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to have her sing in the karaoke I thought was wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really liked that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope the book would talk more about the background of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, the book's thought just was not, was not that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that she's saying in a choir, I mean, these little humanizing details, I think, were really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because otherwise, she's just someone you love to hate.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that was apparently, well, I mean, that was obviously an addition from the book, but that was something where Ryan Gosling found out that this was true of Sandra Huller in real life, and so they worked it into the film, and she said fine, but only if I can do sign of the times, Harry Styles song, which is just the perfect song for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it sounds the lyrics and the tone of it are absolutely perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like how they show like in the book there's rumors that the two of them are sleeping together, which they don't seem to be But here instead of just like the gossip like that you see there's a chemistry between them or you think in another life Yeah, maybe they could have been a power couple and science You know, and I did find it interesting in the book when
[SPEAKER_01]: And when all the other people said to Grace, well, we want you to bring it to her because she likes you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Grace is, are you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did you get that notion?
[SPEAKER_01]: But kiss their observing at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: They see the nuances that both of them in the middle of it are not necessarily going to see.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's, she's a trope that we saw, we saw a lot of one piece, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Is the Kermudgeon with the Heart of Gold?
[SPEAKER_06]: And that is, that is a well-worn trope, you know, speaking of, you know, colors on our palette.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if that she's a cramogen, John.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think she's cramogen way.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's taken on an impossible task.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm not saying she's an unjustified cramogen, but she's cramogenly.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, fine.
[SPEAKER_06]: She's got reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I met different cramogenes than you have.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, this whole sex was great.
[SPEAKER_06]: got rid of the part where the whole reason she found him, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: I was surprised because they brought in the reason that she found him, which was he wrote the paper and defended it on non-waterlife being possible.
[SPEAKER_06]: They never referenced that Rocky was non-waterlife, which is in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, holy shit, I'm right.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was right all along, non-waterlife is possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: because he was just a they did show him in the movie being disappointed when he found out that the astrophage is what is right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then not the payoff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they didn't explain Rocky's physics physiology as much that's one of the things that I missed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do miss the science in parts because I just find that so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just yeah, because I'm like, I said, I'm like, Rylan Grace, I'm like, let's meet an ammonia-based being that can turn xenon
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's why I was like, you know, I would be fine with them just taking it out entirely, but why bring in the whole water-based life piece and then not have it pay off?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was too bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I probably suffered from cuts because they were there.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I bet you there was a scene somewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it could be.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've enjoyed the book flushing out the understanding of how Rocky
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have found it so frustrating because I did not, if I had not seen the film first, I would not have had a visual image of Rocky, and I just couldn't have pulled it from the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not very good at visualizing from text, that's just one of my weaknesses.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's another reason why I appreciated movie first, then movie again.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's always fan art, Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_06]: for these books this popular.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you, John.
[SPEAKER_02]: But with my means, did the whole choosing your own death thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that...
[SPEAKER_02]: was that um in the book to or is that a movie edition there was in the book to okay because if it seems to be yeah because there seemed to be a payoff there right because there was heroin on the ship because she said or was that just in the movie and I know not getting them confused no in the book it's she said you know I'm gonna drink a bunch of vodka right and that's why the vodka was there and then I'm gonna do heroin because I always want to experience all right and I'm gonna do it very carefully and then yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because then he could use that stuff for, say, science and later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, okay, but I did like they called out the question of who would you die for.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess the answer is he would die for his students for future generations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was a really nice to the heart moment for me because you could see he couldn't think of anybody he would die for.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the moment of the question,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when he's asking, how can you find the courage to do this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, well, it's easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, until I'm willing to die for this person, that person, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when shots is putting it to him that you're going to be the substitute, she says, you know, you were alone, you don't have a family, you don't even have a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was another stab to the heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you hold a cow.
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: for whatever reasons, you know, she calls him a cowardly or on the right, maybe it's because he's too afraid to whatever, but still.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that becomes very, very important, of course, as the plot develops.
[SPEAKER_06]: I guess the real answer is who would he die for, Rocky?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or Carl may be young, but that is the other really child.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure he would die for Carl, because Carl participated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember Carl betrayed him too in the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carl was there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you knew just killing him and holding him for the needle.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he admitted in his videos back that they were right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, I don't think the book says that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think no, I think there's a book that I wasn't even there, not in that connection, no.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I wanted to say I think Lutheran would get along with Strat very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually bookstrat, definitely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right, they are N. I think it's justifying the stress.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: OK, all right, let's have this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why film overbook or book over film?
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say the opposite because I think because I think Luther would be, you know, with with bookstrat she would be like that is a woman who understands you just, you do what you got to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a difference that they did a nice nod to in the film where in the book,
[SPEAKER_02]: um when they're having that conversation about the future and you know the there's the big explosion and stuff she says that she assumed she will be sent to jail um because of everything that she's doing to uh all the other stuff that didn't happen like putting the solar panels in the Sahara and melting um
[SPEAKER_02]: Antarctica to you know try to won't keep the planet going as long as possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so in the end of this film we see her sailing through Antarctica and that's where she is where it's water and there's just iceberg
[SPEAKER_02]: around her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is a tattoo visible that has been confirmed to be a prison tattoo.
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically she's gone to prison and is out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I didn't pick up on those details at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the ceiling through the iceberg was simply a sign that the earth had gotten so cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: That a lot more of the oceans.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's how I was reading it too.
[SPEAKER_06]: I forgot about the Antarctica thing from the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was a nod to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you see, I think Lutheran's incredible, I have burned my honor for the sake of a son right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for sunrise, I will never see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that moment is the same moment as Strat's singing that song in the karaoke.
[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just don't see that much difference between them.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that Lutheran would like
[SPEAKER_06]: movie strut better because he needs somewhere to wear his wig or why does he even have it.
[SPEAKER_06]: And the karaoke bar is where he'd wear his wig.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where he can do that side of Lutheran.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's where he puts on the smiling face and everywhere else, you know, he's, he instructs just like, you know, power couple of the century.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he thought doesn't have to put on a happy face, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: it could be a sexual connection, it could be emotional connection, it could be both, it might be something else altogether, but it's clear, there's a kind of, there is something of a connection there and I'm glad that they showed us that because we only saw it in the book through the eyes of other people observing the two of them.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's take a break, come back and talk about another connection.
[SPEAKER_06]: We're back and ready to talk about a new friend.
[SPEAKER_06]: Grace realizes he is not alone.
[SPEAKER_06]: After some clumsy communication with an alien ship, he finally links up with Rocky, an alien from Erid, made of xenon, or xenon night.
[SPEAKER_06]: Grace works out a language, intermediary tool, and the pair learned to communicate and work together.
[SPEAKER_06]: Finally, they come up with a plan to collect some of the astrophage stream from its migration pattern.
[SPEAKER_06]: Grace almost dies in the effort, but Rocky sacrifices himself to save Grace.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thinking Rocky did, Grace continued to work on astrophage and discovers Talmeba, another organism that prays on astrophage and keeps it from depleting the star.
[SPEAKER_06]: rocky gives grace enough astrophage to get home.
[SPEAKER_06]: I guess I should have reversed the rocky giving grace to the astrophage.
[SPEAKER_02]: And rocky's not made of xenon, but his ship is.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you're right.
[SPEAKER_06]: What is he made of?
[SPEAKER_06]: He's like ammonia.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: All his stuff is xenon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right, well, I like your as he's a side.
[SPEAKER_06]: This is, this is, at least this was of course your gateway.
[SPEAKER_06]: You said you wanted some time to talk about language system.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, first of all, just like the blip A detected and then it's like the ship that dwarfs his own and then blip B, and it's just like this little canister, like, and I think is this where AIs, you can't just, you can't discern between the sides of these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I like how they handled the language, the linguistics part, particularly in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am on record as bitching about how the Fantastic Four movie last year did it, really rubbed me the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously the prime example of doing it well is arrival, the Villeneuve movie, you know, based on the short story.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they do like, you know, they could have gone deeper in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there is, um, you have, I have the impression Rocky understands Ryland right away in the movie, which doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah i got that too but then yeah in the book that's certainly not the case they really they have they spend a lot more time on on the back and forth and learning each other's language so that it is the same as in the movie by the end of it ryle and doesn't even need the translator by the end you just understand
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just think, yeah, here you see the way you have to decode a language.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have anything in common is, you know, he figures out, like, okay, numbers, numbers.
[SPEAKER_02]: We all count the rules, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's start there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have time.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we compare our time?
[SPEAKER_02]: and just these these logic things.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like I once heard a phrase of this alien language and now I understand the entire language in 27 others like in Fantastic Four.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just really appreciate it's one of the things I thought was sped up for the movie but I just overall really appreciate how it's handled because linguistics is cool and fun and it was so fun they got
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay, otherwise the puppeteers voice.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's his name again, John?
[SPEAKER_06]: Ah, what is?
[SPEAKER_06]: Ortiz, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_06]: James Ortiz.
[SPEAKER_02]: James Ortiz, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got very flu-free hair.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like his hair.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just pretty astonishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't take sure I saw that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I remember him up.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like it does have a little bit good for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's like Adam here.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know like it's going coming out of his head Yeah, it's going for it and he works the silver.
[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_06]: Good for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good look together.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just I love the entire like rocky and and grace getting to know each other and like the jokes about it and like how you know in psychology we many study show people do engender liking by subconsciously mirroring each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just having those extended things of where they are mirroring each other to breathe liking.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also the misunderstanding's like
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like tap, tap, tap, tap.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you're pointing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says in the video later.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I can't understand what he's saying, which is most of the time, he puts on a little puppet show for me and my tiny brain.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: I appreciated all their humor.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was, you know, I wasn't happy that they got rid of the jazz hands really, like, they didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, a little bit, not a fun.
[SPEAKER_06]: They did it kind of once, but like that was Rocky's happy.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was his amaze in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I really love the jazz.
[SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to see Ryan Gosling be like, jazz hands have the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, yeah, he did do his famous Ken pose, which got pointed out prior to the opening of the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, Ken, Ken is everywhere in the universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember what it's.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Rocky, Rocky respond.
[SPEAKER_02]: Rocky, yeah, mimicked.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked that just in the story in general, and again, this is something that's more in the book than in the movie, but just how they, yeah, as you were bringing up earlier, John, they acknowledge especially in the book, how Rockies from a different atmosphere, different gravity, you know, just a completely different kind of being, and however smart Rockie is,
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he irradiens just don't have complete information like he just didn't know his people didn't know about radiation in space because they just didn't have any reason to figure that out like we do here on earth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so just shows even the ultra intelligent have blind spots, which is why diverse perspectives working together come up with stronger solutions because you're able to consider more possibilities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, make sure you wonder what sorts of things we're missing out on because of a sense that we don't have that maybe some other species would have because of their environmental conditions and their evolutionary process and all the rest of it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we can't seem to uniformly accept our own science at this point, so I don't know if we're ready for alien science.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that gets into the whole territory of brains or doesn't it cognition and logic and so forth.
[SPEAKER_06]: A sensibly brains.
[SPEAKER_02]: but I like in terms of that they did an extra thing for the movie which is like Rocky makes his device so he can quote unquote sea screens I guess somehow he's translating the sounds or maybe detecting the colors in the screens or whatever and creating something he can see I don't know it's hand-wavey but it's fine because now we got to have Rocky watching Rocky
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the, one of the exchanges in this mental health note or the don't go crazy room or whatever they call it, um, one of the exchanges that was improvised was when he's talking about his ex-wife and he said, now she's with Mark and he's a rocky hate mark.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's completely made up on his back.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't really awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great line.
[SPEAKER_06]: That was good.
[SPEAKER_06]: Rocky's like, I'm a bro and, you know, the bro code is my love.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Intergalactic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does seem to read doesn't it, John?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fist my bump.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's from the point of view.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pointing down.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that just the idea, oh, up and down or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is in the book with the righty, tidy, lefty Lucy being reversed.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here you see, it's probably because his thumb points a different direction than ours.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, of course.
[SPEAKER_06]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, of course.
[SPEAKER_06]: So the good news is everybody, Rocky lives and the pair breed enough to tell me but to say both world.
[SPEAKER_06]: They pack up and say they're goodbyes after Greece is on his way, he notices a leak.
[SPEAKER_06]: It turns out the Tamiba he bred evolved to eat the Zinnonite, the rocky ship is made of, oh no.
[SPEAKER_06]: Grace remembers how he ended up on the ship, unwillingly dragged kicking and screaming.
[SPEAKER_06]: He decides to be a hero and launches John, Paul, George and Ringo, back to Earth before saving Rocky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm interested that you say he decides to be a hero.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that was even in this calculus.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just knew he had to save his friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I mean, he was going to send me information back obvious.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I think that that's enough to be a hero Just to save one person, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, very much more do you need I Appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think the book's dedicated to John Paul George and Ringo, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes I love that I love that whole reference when it first was it
[SPEAKER_06]: What makes me laugh is, you know, it's the hailed Mary full of grace.
[SPEAKER_06]: You're doing all this like Catholic imagery, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: And then they start with John, Paul, and you're like, okay, Luke and Mark.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: They spent a little more time on those in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did notice, I forgot about this in my first watch, but I noticed this in the rewatch that they did a fake out of Ryland getting back to Earth, but it's a dream.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then he's woken up by Merr, where, contaminate detected, Merr, Merr.
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I forgot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even with two watchings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it looks like he's landed on Earth and then he's woken up and it's like, oh, that was a dream.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we have a happy ending.
[SPEAKER_06]: Earth was saved by the efforts of grace and strat smiles as she watches recordings of grace and rocky being buffoons.
[SPEAKER_06]: On Erid Grace has found happiness in an artificial earth habitat given to him by the irradiens.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think in the book, they specify the Adrian made it, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, they don't do that in the movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: And then he teaches a class of science to a irradiens children.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they do say it's a charge of the ocean texture.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: They say that in the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love how we see the colors of the stone on the planet and how they match Rocky's own colors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because those are two of my favorite shades, the sort of teal color.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: you can't remember what the reddish sort of color was, but I really appreciated that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also this is going back a little bit, but I loved how grace eventually takes to calling the ship's computer Mary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think in the book, he leaves it a little open-ended, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe I will go back to Earth one day.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a question about that, but later on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He hears, I mean, in the book, he, they, like, have detected that the Earth's Sun has brightened again, so he knows something work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of thought that that was just sort of the musings of an old man though, because they emphasize how relativity and heavier gravity have really turned him into a 76 year old man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he's got arthritis and he walks with a cane.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he just lived there that long because it takes a long to travel to.
[SPEAKER_06]: Listen, it's a movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ryan Gosling stays hot.
[SPEAKER_06]: Everyone go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they do, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, I have a different, I have thoughts on that, which we will get to when we get to that point.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we're at that point, so what do you want to talk about?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, talk about cinematography, special effects?
[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like we kind of weaved it in and out, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a cool effect.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just special effects.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no knowledge in that area.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just sat back and enjoyed the visual feast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the oral feast, the music was terrific.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely terrific.
[SPEAKER_06]: David forget, forgot to include any secret cinematography or special effects in his voice mail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just wait until he takes that Signum class.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: We won't be able to talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: All over it.
[SPEAKER_06]: He will be unstoppable.
[SPEAKER_01]: He will be unstoppable.
[SPEAKER_06]: Galactus will never be defeated.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: So themes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a pretty make of one to throw.
[SPEAKER_06]: I want to hear it, Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_01]: It won't surprise you in the slightest.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was at my second viewing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I recognized some basic Tolkien themes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Revised for the first century.
[SPEAKER_06]: But I took put a quarter in the Tolkien jar.
[SPEAKER_01]: there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: The need for people from different places to come together just all problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's a pretty basic there, but this time we're coming from, you know, if not opposite sides of the galaxy then certainly, you know, from galactic distance.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the unlikely is Tiro, being the one who managed to overcome their own shortcomings and save the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not given much of Rocky's side of how he is in his culture and you know, his community and so on and so on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course we do see it from grace and my initial thoughts, I can see some of Frodo and Grace because he's the very reluctant hero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas Sam is all, yeah, I want to see the else, yeah, I want to do this and Rocky is just so full of this very rambunctious joy that reminds me more Sam than of Frodo.
[SPEAKER_01]: on the sides, Rocky Rusty's grace at near death to himself becomes of the solutions and he inspires hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the famous line from Giannal.
[SPEAKER_01]: This quest may be attempted by the week with as much hope as the strong, yet such as the oft, the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world, or the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Small hands do them because they must while the eyes of the great art elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_06]: Who's the great in this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, perhaps tragedy or the carnage in the eyes of the great perhaps in the eyes of scientists who you know thought that Grace was full of it and you know trained astronauts and cosmonauts and I feel there's a very specific reason why Grace works for this whole project which I think I have
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do, this is the next big theme here, from a human perspective, and that course I can't speak for the Iranians, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: A fifth grade science teacher is absolutely the perfect one to be present on this mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the trained scientists, not the trained astronomers, because you have to be able to think outside all the boxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: and this ground level enthusiasm and the humor and the creativity, but most of all the ability to respond to the unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect qualities for a fifth grade teacher.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, fifth graders are starting to assert independence, but they're also willing to go with you if you can get their attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, once you get over the initial shocking terror of the circumstances,
[SPEAKER_01]: You could propose a problem like a petrovine to a PhD scientist who's made days of fifth grade classroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they can solve it because they don't use think in the usual ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not a usual problem, so that's exactly what we need.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to think in the unusual ways because there's nothing about this mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is usual.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's nobody's ever done anything like this before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is why Dr. Stutt
[SPEAKER_01]: She understood the need for someone who could handle, could have the courage, however shaky, admittedly.
[SPEAKER_01]: The courage of their own convictions and stick to their guns, because they've already stuck it to the scientists and allow for a world in which the rigid, supposedly rigid rules of science just might not always apply.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can take on this idea of, oh, look at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zina Knight, oh, look at the way he can construct things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, he's really good engineer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's make use of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: not hung up on the science of it all or that's not possible and I also find it very amusing in the book he doesn't ever appear to use a single swear word.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least not until he sees what is clearly an alien's spaceship for the first time and then we get at HFS for the most part I think
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so that you could teach 12 and 13 year olds five days a week throughout the school year and not, um, in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, he's like, making fun of himself in the book too.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, this is the way I talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's wrong with me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did I get this?
[SPEAKER_06]: There was such a good joke that was in the book that that Maya and I talked about.
[SPEAKER_06]: When we were kind of listening to it at the audiobook at the same time separately, and there was a great joke where he goes,
[SPEAKER_06]: hold on.
[SPEAKER_06]: I can remember that I don't have kids, but I really like kids.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a teacher.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, thank God.
[SPEAKER_06]: Such a good moment of humor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you
[SPEAKER_01]: You could see Grace as one of the most awful villains because he's a coward, some for some people that's the worst villainy of all, particularly perhaps in a military context or a, you know, astronomer context.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a coward, he's a failure in the eyes of many including himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't volunteer for this, but was the last person left in new enough to complete the mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's starting exactly the right stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he also reminds me of Lerick's by Leonard Bernstein and Richard Wilbur in the musical Candide.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we won't think noble because we're not noble.
[SPEAKER_01]: We won't live in beautiful harmony because there's no such thing in this world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nor should there be, which we're at a way of a speak to think of the island and the valley where the valley are singing the world and to being.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a dissonant valley.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all woven into the song.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure that won't be a huge problem later.
[SPEAKER_01]: We promise only to do our best and live out our lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dear God, that's all we can promise and truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is lead up to his marriage proposal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he sings, you've been a fool and so of I.
[SPEAKER_01]: But common be my wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let us try before we die to make some sense of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're neither pure nor wise nor good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do the best we know.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll build our house and chop our wood and make our garden grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Grace absolutely had the right stuff, even though, again, from the perspective of an astronaut, not so much.
[SPEAKER_06]: You bring up a lot of great points here.
[SPEAKER_06]: I want to piggyback off of your middle school elementary teacher is the perfect person to do this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Something that you hear when you go for, you know, you know, the higher education training is, you don't understand something unless you can explain it to the layperson, right, unless you could explain it to any creator.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's part of this, right, is he's able to break things down.
[SPEAKER_06]: in a way that makes sense to a regular person.
[SPEAKER_06]: And if you can't do that, you don't understand it.
[SPEAKER_06]: So he may have a deeper understanding in a lot of these things than a lot of these scientists who are only speaking to each other all day.
[SPEAKER_06]: And there is also a thing of being away from the institutions for a while, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: I just don't have the same biases that are ingrained in the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he can allow his curiosity to overcome his fear.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see that time and again in the film and also in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's presented with a puzzle and it's wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about this or that or the other thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that helps him make up for, you know, if you want to call it the detriment of the lack of courage initially.
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of the reason I think why that doesn't happen is because of his discovery of his two-day comrades, which I had a little more about, but I'll talk about later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that the way they handled the idea of Rylan Grace being a coward, perhaps that was improved in the film versus the book because you see more evidence of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just the fact that you had to be drugged and bundled off to do this thing, but also we see like when he first encounters Rocky ship, he tries running away at first.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... he doesn't want to go on that first base walk to catch the canister he's afraid to take off his helmets even the rock he's telling him it's oxygen in there um... but what i love is that we see he always pushes through that fear to do the thing and for me that is like
[SPEAKER_02]: a lack of fear is stupidity, acknowledging fear and deciding to do which you think is the right thing anyway is true, bravery to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is what we see evidence of it into the point where at the end when there's even less hesitation in the movie than in the book, and of course, there's less room for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end when he realizes, oh,
[SPEAKER_02]: either can go home or I can save Rocky's life.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, well, guess I'm going back to save Rocky's life.
[SPEAKER_02]: No question, you know, there's no running away then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like also as far as a theme, just the ingenuity of the writing, showing the ingenuity of humanity and problems, you know, like astrophage, it's a potentially
[SPEAKER_02]: Galaxy ending problem, but then they also realize, but we can also use it to our advantages as fuel.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's we can make the problem part of the solution, but that doesn't mean that we should forget how dangerous it is, as that big Kaboom tells us when there's too much.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's really interesting, right, that they don't have dissonance among the world leaders on this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's the biggest fantasy piece as far as I think we're where is totally, you know, if you want to criticize as a mob for not focusing on people enough.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm which criticize where for being a bit unrealistic about how societies work, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Like this is not how this would go.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's also why Ava is a bit more of a bitch in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: I represent all of them like I guarantee you we had a world-ending threat and nobody would be representing all of them Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I represent all of them except the ones who are dissenting and going off in a corner trembling and trying to build underground bunkers and whatever right store food She does recognize I think both in the film and in the book that the biggest problem is going to be food
[SPEAKER_01]: and that that's when whatever cooperation they're invited to before is going to break down.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think she's wrong.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, I think that that's, and this is a good segue here, I think that this is where it gets into hope punk, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Because this is the story of an apocalyptic event in an extremely hopeful fantasy where everyone comes together and does the best young humans do and come together and solve problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, that's why it was hope punk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, finally, finally, we have a friendly alien, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I don't know, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not since Star Trek, no, it had sentences in, but still.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, well, Star Wars, up to a point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it that we have to conceive of other beings as scary, scary creatures that want to devour us?
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, we do that with other civilizations on our own planet.
[SPEAKER_06]: So it makes perfect for me, why we do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, let's not lay that on to other planets in the star systems, OK?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's stop doing it on our own.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're the even better, even better, or one step at a time, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I did bump in the book, although perhaps it is more realistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bumped on the fact that they were doing things that were hardly environmentally friendly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've already talked about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: The losing a third of the Antarctic and blacktopping this area to answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they really brought it home with that one French scientist who puts his face in his hands and sobs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: After he's blasted his own bombs to make this come about,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm selfishly feeling like I'm glad that wasn't in the film because it would have been a real downer if it had been.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably why they left it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is Alicia, that's my best guess, but I am also wondering what the author thinks of the fact that they left all that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard some degree, it's showing the cost, I've heard interviews and this is how I know that that last scene where she's going through the ice is Antarctica, so there had been in prison, I mean that's a very interesting piece, but they made it so tiny,
[SPEAKER_01]: that those of us who wanted to be a happy ever after didn't even have to know, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'll tell you what, I'm sure that if Andy Weir has any issues with this adaptation, he will be able to wipe away the tears with the dollar bills that he paid.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think he's quite happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think I think so too.
[SPEAKER_06]: He keeps collaborating with similar people, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: The same writer, really, President, President Hill Mary Ann, the Martian.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think, yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's going to be, and himself, that he slaughtered his copybook a little bit in an interview when he was slanging some other, um, much beloved sci-fi property.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think subsequently he said, yeah, and that was stupid, and I was being sort of, he driven in that direction by the confrontation, the whole host, and so on and so on.
[SPEAKER_02]: But so yeah, he just came in on on that show.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: probably not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys want to hear a speed around of book differences?
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't mentioned yet?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, give me a minute.
[SPEAKER_06]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So one thing I noticed that kind of like rub me the wrong way in the book and I think it was better handled in the movies the way he in the book he's just like, oh, let me tell you about our sun dying and the world collapsing any year he needs to be prodded a bit more by the students before he starts getting into that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We obviously talked about the vodka.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of don't mind that he finds the vodka earlier and just starts drinking it because that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we talk about on my kid about Carl being expanded from the book?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was so sorry that the book didn't have a mouse at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was one of my biggest appointments.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least not as an ally the way he was.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, but going the other direction is just the pleasant surprise.
[SPEAKER_06]: Is that you, this, this, you know, chemistry with Carl?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, he was, that was a great expansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed the, the, in the book, Carl, Rylan's first experiments for secret because Eva wanted to see if he would die before she told other people, but he or they made it a funny moment with all these people watching him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's just like time for more things in the book like there's an emphasis on how long and weird of a trip it is for him when he's first collected and brought to that ship and the middle of nowhere and like the jet and like all the going for days and he's like just so disoriented when he arrives.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they talk about their things like they talk about the importance of rocky watching each other's sleep in the movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's such a bigger thing in the book But then they do have the payoff here But then there's also they went completely the opposite with rocky and eating in the book He did not want Ryland to see him eat because he like pushes something out to like
[SPEAKER_02]: you digest something and then sucks it back in and it's gross and here he's like, oh, what's me eats for science?
[SPEAKER_01]: The book actually gives us a term for creatures that defecate and ingest food from the same orifice.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, okay, I forget.
[SPEAKER_01]: Monno, something
[SPEAKER_01]: You never know John it might be I don't want any even contact him up in a party.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want any in his content in my inbox There was no in us involved in that I think in a way Yeah, that's right the manus
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, so I liked the addition of Rocky's tattoos and the fact that they're like musical that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like I've seen the recall, he had a fancy dress look in the book, but I like how it's like sort of like wind chimes here, so yeah, you know, when he dances, um, I yeah, the the videos like sending back videos is just a great, you know, screen adaptation choice, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I like how the movie leaned into the difficulty of suddenly having a roommate move in who can see and hear every single thing you do no matter where on the ship you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it for seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shaves of college.
[SPEAKER_02]: it's up college.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and obviously there's a lot more with the whole win rocky and like gets hurt helping Ryland because of the centrifugal force is knocked him out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we just got the emotional payoff here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll watch you sleep pal, but Ryland really has to like drag him back into there in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then he almost kills rocky thinking he's helping him like he
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I science, and I blew some black stuff out of your body.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when Rocky wakes up, he's like, you almost killed me, but luckily I was killed in the second time.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, those were the scams, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: That was how he bought it.
[SPEAKER_06]: He was cute, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was like, it was dust.
[SPEAKER_06]: He's like, no, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, but then, yeah, they have here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Rocky is like sleeping through the whole Tell Meeper project, whereas that's like a long-term thing they're working on for ages to breed the right Tell Meeper to bring that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then, of course, you have more emphasis in the book that the breeding of that is why it can, because of doing it in the Xenonite containers, it learns to infest Xenonite.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here,
[SPEAKER_02]: in the movie with Ryan Ryland doing that, oh, it's too close.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ryland doing that all by himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: It almost feels like he's more at fault for what happens to Rocky ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Afterward?
[SPEAKER_02]: But in this version, Ryland gets to see Rocky ship because he was really sad.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'd know, get to see it before they parted ways in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shades of...
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da
[SPEAKER_01]: when they were doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and that that reminds me he actually sings that that melody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh, and then he's trying to beat Rocky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want a many cultural references which I loved.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then the last difference I'll shout out is that I guess I just am where they left it out, but I kind of really like this in the book when he goes back to a radio, um, and they're trying to make food that he can eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they end up cloning his muscles and just growing muscles so that he can eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, I eat one me burger a day and it's delicious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am delicious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to start far more hard than John does against the mono whenever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I just say I adored the incredible humor?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we had the one barf that we introduced to him when he's barfing after being removed from all the tubes and things, but coming off the air force chip, and he's vomiting into the bottom opening of an orange cone, and all I could think was don't those orange cones usually have a hole at, you know, both ends, it's really solving the problem here, and I also cried at least five or six times.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first time Rocky held up the model, the native grace, I just, I couldn't help it, I just said yes for his tiny brain.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but connection between two species.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: We use symbols and we use models.
[SPEAKER_06]: And Funko Pops.
[SPEAKER_01]: and somehow it works, somehow it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, the first time after his injuries, we see Rocky's fingers start to tap on the slide.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know we had to be alive, but still his life is alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I too was so impressed with the Gosling soul acting and acting where the puppet, I'm not sure you could hear the responses, although you said, I think I'll be sure you said something about they were live in the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: The puppeteer was, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: and then the sounds that Rocky makes the triple noises and cats purring.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he also uses the e-tamiousic, I mean, definitely pulling in all these different cultural references from different films and whatnot TV series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed that they were doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, there's his improvised memorial for the two dead comrades who can't even remember at that point, but it just such a human instinct.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she had an epic photo of climbing into the Kremlin.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you see, I think in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they mentioned those photos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was really not happy with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Branded, okay, visual, medium, films, but still, all you have to do is show a couple of photos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even before you know who that these people were, you are connecting with them and weeping.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you supposed to construct a memorial for people you don't even know or remember?
[SPEAKER_01]: But he does it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you could send the bodies into space with those personal references, a former recognition that these were unique individuals and they had these lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: It reminded me very much of the ritual phase go forth into the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although in this case, the world is the entire galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate it how much time the film spent on the moral services because the book kind of gave it a very minimalist treatment.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I thought it was really important that they do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, hey, I do things about rituals and podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you might have imagined, like Tolkien, this would also come up for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So props, huge props and A plus plus for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bringing back to Maryland's point from the beginning about hoping that this will be remembered at the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think last year was the horror year, and this is going to be the space here.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, you and your dune.
[SPEAKER_06]: I hope you all have fun together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the disclosure day, the new Spielberg movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to go see it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm skeptical.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to podcast about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to get a little tidbit of information about rings of power evidently.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then not to disinfeature.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people are thinking probably they're going to have the first trailer for the SEC, which is coming up shortly.
[SPEAKER_06]: the SEC, this SD, C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C.C
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, what else we got?
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's wait till Co's out first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just anticipate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just talk about what you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just take a breath that you know.
[SPEAKER_06]: So here we probably see L-Rond.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, this was fun talking to you two about this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Any last thoughts we want to share?
[SPEAKER_01]: Go see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Read the book, go see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, enjoy it again now that it's, uh, digitally available.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Washrids repeat.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it was a good idea.
[SPEAKER_06]: And if you're alien friend seems to be dead, don't blow compressed air for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do not understand his anatomy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Understand that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Make no assumptions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make no assumptions.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we've got a lot going on on the lower hands network.
[SPEAKER_06]: Plenty of stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: We've got radioactive ramblings wrapping up the boys.
[SPEAKER_06]: Season five, the final season, which I'm hearing interesting things about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_06]: Very interesting.
[SPEAKER_06]: I believe I know she does this back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we put out a doon episode about the first part of the book breakdown of the original novel, and we also put out an episode responding to the, there's now for silo season three.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a teaser out.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been some photos released.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luke and I talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Abby and I are going to do a spoiler discussion for the book club for Woolshift Dust.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're back, baby.
[SPEAKER_06]: very cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: We're back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, what else we got?
[SPEAKER_06]: Probably how are doing their newlywed season?
[SPEAKER_06]: I can I say I listened to their clue coverage.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like rolling on the floor laughing.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was it was so funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's like a 10 minute conversation about getting dog poop off your shoe.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of life's most persistent problems.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, I'll always listen to them.
[SPEAKER_06]: Never run the music, weekly coverage of music and psychology.
[SPEAKER_06]: There are millennials, but they go back.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's all the crazy stuff in the past.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think they do some Gen Z music too.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're hip with the kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I mean it's busy on the on the Lohan's feed just they just wrapped up shadow lord mall shallow shadow lord David's been putting out all kinds of one off episodes like yeah and a growing us on second breakfast might I add right he did show up for the end of second breakfast so we put out our finger food episode and we'll have out misery later this week
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and John Luke and I, we did our Daredevil born again coverage, and at the end of this week, we will also cover the new Punisher Special, which is releasing Tuesday night slash Wednesday, depending on where you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: I particularly enjoyed David's episode with Dr. Amy Sturgis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Start trekking, start worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the whole bunch of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't get John to join us, but I think Mark's going to join Lisa and I to talk about Widow's Bay, the new horror comedy show we're going to do, mid-season check-in in a matter of... Nice.
[SPEAKER_06]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_06]: And one day, I'm going to edit this some early in the story with Thorin and we're going to get that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Merlin and I recorded that a few weeks ago, but it's just been busy.
[SPEAKER_06]: We've always had content coming out and everything.
[SPEAKER_06]: So we'll get that going and then we'll get the schedule in the next episode.
[SPEAKER_06]: Sounds good.
[SPEAKER_06]: a lot of stuff coming.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm really excited for Vampire Lestad and Drew.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's going to be a fun time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on up fast.
[SPEAKER_06]: That one's not passing the Boohila scale test.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even need to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Lestad is delightful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I bet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that will be giving a paper at the second annual West moot conference, which is the Tolkien Society's American
[SPEAKER_01]: branch.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us can't afford to travel all the way over to England.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have been allowed to have our own here and a lot of people from England travel over here to participate with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be fun coming up over our Memorial Day weekend.
[SPEAKER_06]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_06]: everyone's busy busy business here.
[SPEAKER_06]: So why don't we close this out and say thank you's I'll do discord server boosters, Alicia, if you do, uh, lore masters.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you to our discord server boosters, Aaron K, to live a thriller, do 71 Athena A, Lestu, Nansie, M, goes to partition and radioactive, Richard, and, uh, drown.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to all of our listeners, especially our subscribers who help us keep going most of all our highest tier, the Laura Masters, Martian Michael J. Michelle E. S.C. Peter O'H Nancy M. Doe 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C.
[SPEAKER_02]: Andre B. Quang New, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Daly V. Mothership 61, Norles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kathy W. Lestu, Jeffrey B. Eliseo U. Ben B. Scott F. Stevenen, Julia F. Collie S. Umariel, Rocky Zim, Jessica A.
[SPEAKER_02]: Red Zippy, the T. C. S. Dope, Mini, Eleanor, Mrs. Tenant AC Willes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wilson E.L.I.W.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cassie K. Chumberrooney, Katia, Josh Lue, Bington, PDX, Cordy, Cori G, Quinch, Jenny L, Slavinator, and always last Audrey on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Slavinator is a new one since like two days ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just makes such a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will see you for more Sapphire later this year.