WEBVTT 00:06.005 --> 00:08.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 00:09.356 --> 00:15.154 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 00:25.040 --> 00:49.360 [SPEAKER_00]: So here we are, we are finally wrapping up Chapter 2, which has been a ton of references to other things, of foreshadowing things to come, of setting the tone and setting up the rest of the story, and it hits me, having just read through the Hobbit and then now through this on a very, very close level, how different the two stories are right from the beginning. 00:49.340 --> 01:05.695 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they both start out in the Shire and they're both very hobby, and we get a good sense of who the people of the Shire are and what the actual dilemma is, the journey that we're about to go on, but the dwarves hanging out in Bilbo's house, being dwarves. 01:05.675 --> 01:20.950 [SPEAKER_00]: And the difference between that and Gandalf coming to hang out with Frodo to reveal to him the dangers of the ring and everything that is at stake here is a completely different scenario. 01:20.930 --> 01:32.887 [SPEAKER_00]: in the fellowship of the ring, the stakes are so much higher, but there's so much more intentional references to everything else in the legendarium. 01:32.947 --> 01:44.524 [SPEAKER_00]: You can very clearly tell by this point in the writing of these stories that Tolkien had 100% incorporated this story into everything else that he had written. 01:44.504 --> 01:47.768 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas at this point in the Hobbit, it's not that clear. 01:47.828 --> 01:55.539 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, I mean, clearly he went back and re-edited certain things, but this is a very different kind of situation. 01:55.739 --> 02:04.030 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's part of why this chapter takes so long to get through is it is extremely dense as we have seen. 02:04.451 --> 02:05.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a feeling in future episodes. 02:05.933 --> 02:09.177 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be moving a bit of a faster pace through the content. 02:09.678 --> 02:14.224 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, when this chapter ends, which we will talk about in just a moment, 02:14.204 --> 02:22.273 [SPEAKER_00]: And we go from all of the conversation between Gandalf and Frodo and laying out the stakes and all of that to Sam finally showing up. 02:22.293 --> 02:23.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Things move along a lot faster. 02:23.915 --> 02:25.177 [SPEAKER_00]: I have less notes. 02:25.217 --> 02:26.138 [SPEAKER_00]: I have less highlights. 02:26.158 --> 02:28.741 [SPEAKER_00]: I should show you guys some of my notes someday. 02:29.202 --> 02:35.909 [SPEAKER_00]: All the different color highlights and bowls and underlines and different colors for different meanings and different characters. 02:36.390 --> 02:44.059 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot less of that once the story starts moving on because it's more about what's actually happening in the moment and less about references to other things. 02:44.039 --> 02:47.163 [SPEAKER_00]: But that said, we've got stuff to talk about still. 02:47.283 --> 02:57.815 [SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely content in here that is referring to other things that has, of course, things that I can point out and probably spend an entire episode on. 02:58.055 --> 03:01.259 [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll get through it as, as we normally do in, uh, well, here. 03:01.499 --> 03:02.180 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's just do it. 03:02.400 --> 03:11.751 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go. 03:22.632 --> 03:27.298 [SPEAKER_00]: So we ended last time with Gandalf saying, whatever it may do, it will be slow, slow to evil. 03:27.678 --> 03:42.717 [SPEAKER_00]: If you keep it with that purpose, talking about Frodo having the mentality of guarding the ring, using it, or not using it as much as possible, but making a point to do whatever he can in order to protect the people he cares about. 03:42.697 --> 03:45.204 [SPEAKER_00]: And he starts processing what this actually means. 03:45.645 --> 03:53.566 [SPEAKER_00]: He does say I hope that you find someone better to keep it soon, which does play out in the story. 03:53.606 --> 03:58.900 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it kind of comes to a head with the council of Elrond and Frodo deciding to step up. 03:58.880 --> 04:01.567 [SPEAKER_00]: and be the one that delivers it all the way to Mordor. 04:02.068 --> 04:15.201 [SPEAKER_00]: Seeing the conflict it brings in these other groups and the different reasons they each have for well helping with the ring and their own specific goals. 04:15.181 --> 04:17.264 [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll get into that when we get there. 04:17.664 --> 04:23.532 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of that has to do with Frodo having no goal other than to help the people he cares about. 04:23.673 --> 04:28.159 [SPEAKER_00]: He is one of the purist of the individuals in that scenario. 04:28.479 --> 04:35.929 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll cover that more when we get there, but he's starting to realize some of these other details, so he then says, I cannot keep the ring in stay here. 04:35.989 --> 04:38.152 [SPEAKER_00]: He realizes that he's a danger. 04:38.192 --> 04:40.075 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a beacon. 04:40.055 --> 04:59.014 [SPEAKER_00]: People will be looking for it, evil creatures will be looking for it, and the Shire is in danger, unless he leaves, and he comes to this conclusion himself, very much focused on this as a rational decision by Gandalf, but he says, I should like to save the Shire if I could. 04:59.554 --> 05:09.184 [SPEAKER_00]: Though there have been times when I thought the inhabitants too stupid and dull for words and have felt that an earthquake or an invasion of dragons might be good for them. 05:09.755 --> 05:11.277 [SPEAKER_00]: but I don't feel like that now. 05:12.038 --> 05:14.241 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is notable to me for two reasons. 05:14.301 --> 05:17.886 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I feel like these are Tolkien's words himself. 05:18.367 --> 05:31.105 [SPEAKER_00]: These are the kinds of things he's probably realized in just dealing with other people in the world and how some people can just make dumb decisions and are difficult to work with and that sort of thing. 05:31.165 --> 05:34.750 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like a very typical thing that any one of us would have thought in the past. 05:34.730 --> 05:41.080 [SPEAKER_00]: like, oh, the people around me or such idiots, I wish a dragon would come and wake them up to what actually matters. 05:41.120 --> 05:41.781 [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of thing. 05:42.242 --> 05:55.662 [SPEAKER_00]: But this also is interesting because the ring is right there and the ring is at what seemingly at all times trying to exert some influence over the people around it. 05:56.043 --> 05:57.866 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, sometimes more than others, for sure. 05:58.286 --> 05:58.847 [SPEAKER_00]: But 05:59.182 --> 06:14.693 [SPEAKER_00]: this is an element that is absolutely in this scene with them and yet in the moment where he could have relied on his not better nature of just wishing that people would have to deal with an earthquake or dragons. 06:14.673 --> 06:18.178 [SPEAKER_00]: He's overcome by a need to do good. 06:18.238 --> 06:21.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo says, but I don't feel like that now. 06:22.285 --> 06:29.616 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel that as long as the shire lies behind, safe and comfortable, I shall find wandering more bearable. 06:29.976 --> 06:36.466 [SPEAKER_00]: I shall know that somewhere there is a firm foothold, even if my feet cannot stand there again. 06:36.526 --> 06:42.115 [SPEAKER_00]: And how foreshadowing is this of Frodo's journey. 06:42.095 --> 06:46.262 [SPEAKER_00]: This is exactly what he succeeds in the end in doing. 06:46.282 --> 06:57.762 [SPEAKER_00]: He saves the realm, he saves the Shire, and yet even in that instant, he is not able to actually stand there as one of them. 06:58.262 --> 07:00.626 [SPEAKER_00]: He will forever be an outsider. 07:00.787 --> 07:06.837 [SPEAKER_00]: He will forever be a wanderer that has to go other places, even in the end. 07:06.817 --> 07:12.026 [SPEAKER_00]: And that always feels like a surprise at the end of the story, but Tolkien sets that up right here. 07:12.066 --> 07:14.330 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows the hero's journey. 07:14.550 --> 07:22.564 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that the hero never comes back the same, and is never able to integrate exactly the same way back into society. 07:22.544 --> 07:28.594 [SPEAKER_00]: And this idea of being a wanderer is interesting too because it links up to Bilbo in certain ways. 07:28.654 --> 07:33.622 [SPEAKER_00]: The very next paragraph talks about how Frodo would consider going away at times. 07:34.183 --> 07:43.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine this is like a holiday or as he says here, a series of adventures like Bilbo's or better ending in peace. 07:43.418 --> 07:44.641 [SPEAKER_00]: which is also interesting. 07:44.761 --> 07:50.513 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo returns home to the Shire, but he returns home to difficulty, people treat him differently. 07:50.793 --> 07:55.663 [SPEAKER_00]: They treat him as he's like a wealthy guy with a bunch of hidden treasure and secrets and things like that. 07:56.104 --> 08:01.275 [SPEAKER_00]: Then sure, he has some of that, but not on the scale that everyone else considers it. 08:01.255 --> 08:23.483 [SPEAKER_00]: But Frodo realizes that this is different, this ring means exile, it means drawing the danger with him, it means always being chased, never having a home again, not just leaving the Shire of two live somewhere else, like Bilbo deciding to go live with the elves until the end of his days. 08:23.463 --> 08:36.993 [SPEAKER_00]: This means always being on the run, and he assumes that means he must be alone as well, because who would want to be in that situation with him, who would be willing to sign up for exile? 08:37.474 --> 08:41.202 [SPEAKER_00]: And Tolkien answers this question in just a moment, and we'll get to that. 08:41.182 --> 08:44.952 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's just take a moment to understand what Frodo's feeling here. 08:45.634 --> 08:48.040 [SPEAKER_00]: This is unprecedented. 08:48.461 --> 08:56.743 [SPEAKER_00]: This, again, is a much darker, much more desperate beginning to the story than we got in Bilbo's adventure. 08:56.723 --> 08:59.486 [SPEAKER_00]: But Bilbo is kind of the answer to all of this. 09:00.387 --> 09:24.570 [SPEAKER_00]: If Frodo has similar qualities to Bilbo in thinking that it would be fun and interesting to go on an adventure and to return again from that adventure and to experience the elves and the other parts of the world that he's only imagined in his mind, then the only other person who would be willing to go with him into exile would be somebody who had those same dreams. 09:24.550 --> 09:26.492 [SPEAKER_00]: that same want. 09:26.973 --> 09:31.298 [SPEAKER_00]: And that this exact moment, and he doesn't tell this to Gandalf, it says that he doesn't. 09:31.659 --> 09:37.005 [SPEAKER_00]: A great desire to follow Bilbo, flamed up in his heart. 09:37.025 --> 09:39.048 [SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to go find Bilbo, again, maybe. 09:39.068 --> 09:44.955 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're told that this was so strong, it overcame his fear. 09:45.779 --> 09:55.709 [SPEAKER_00]: He could almost have run out there and then down the road without his hat as Bilbo had done on a similar morning long ago. 09:55.769 --> 09:58.212 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not coincidental. 09:58.772 --> 10:10.825 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a moment where something is influencing Frodo to move out the door to be brave to be inspired by Bilbo himself. 10:10.805 --> 10:12.367 [SPEAKER_00]: and it's not Gandalf. 10:13.008 --> 10:17.433 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it seems like it might be Gandalf because of the word flamed, right? 10:17.894 --> 10:20.017 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf inspires other people. 10:20.117 --> 10:22.440 [SPEAKER_00]: He lights the flame inside. 10:22.500 --> 10:26.945 [SPEAKER_00]: They're, I don't know, they're person, they're personality, they're, they're will. 10:27.406 --> 10:33.133 [SPEAKER_00]: However, you want to phrase it, but there's another source for inspiration in the world. 10:33.113 --> 10:50.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf responds here that Hobbits are really amazing creatures and he does the whole line about you can learn all that there is to know about them and yet they will still surprise you that whole thing and he says that he didn't expect to get any sort of answer like this, not even from you. 10:50.275 --> 10:52.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf knows that he's going to the right Hobbit. 10:52.619 --> 10:54.342 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that he's on the right path. 10:54.662 --> 10:57.788 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that what he's doing is the will of a Louis Vuittor. 10:58.168 --> 11:01.894 [SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't mean that sometimes he doesn't get surprised by things. 11:02.395 --> 11:11.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes the will of a Louis Vuittor is to reach into the world and to do something about it. 11:11.150 --> 11:21.910 [SPEAKER_00]: And usually it's in small little ways, like a flame inside a hobbit that leads to outcomes that not even the wise could predict. 11:22.552 --> 11:28.142 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're told that Bilba played a part of this, too, not just as inspiration for Frodo, but in choosing the right air. 11:28.723 --> 11:34.474 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilba saw something in Frodo, something very similar to what's inside of him. 11:34.454 --> 11:46.893 [SPEAKER_00]: But that thing that's inside each of them is not only in the baggons, it's not only in Frodo and Bilbo, and then they start making preparations, they start thinking through things. 11:47.214 --> 11:55.146 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf says that you have to leave the name baggons behind you because the enemy knows the name baggons, so go as Mr. Underhill, which is 11:55.126 --> 12:13.573 [SPEAKER_00]: still feels a little bit on the nose if you know that it's a baggons and you know that he's a hobbit from the Shire then Mr. Underhill kind of makes sense as I don't know a fake name, but also it's something that is extremely common for a hobbit. 12:13.553 --> 12:16.937 [SPEAKER_00]: you would assume that every Hobbit could be Mr. Underhill. 12:16.977 --> 12:25.288 [SPEAKER_00]: I know some of them live above ground in homes that are made, but I guess it's generic enough that it doesn't exactly point to baggons. 12:25.769 --> 12:28.933 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like Frodo can pretend not to be a Hobbit, right? 12:29.414 --> 12:38.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Out in the bigger world, everybody's gonna notice this small little fellow walking around, and if they know what a Hobbit is, they're gonna know what a Hobbit is. 12:38.726 --> 12:42.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So, no need to be more mysterious than Mr. Underhill. 12:43.118 --> 12:46.644 [SPEAKER_00]: But then Gandalf says that I don't think you need to go alone. 12:47.244 --> 12:49.027 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are some requirements here. 12:49.067 --> 12:53.074 [SPEAKER_00]: First, you have to have somebody you can absolutely trust. 12:53.094 --> 12:57.420 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who would be absolutely willing to go by your side. 12:58.061 --> 13:03.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who would also be willing to go into unknown parals. 13:03.655 --> 13:04.637 [SPEAKER_00]: that's a tall order. 13:04.858 --> 13:06.501 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf makes a really good point here. 13:06.902 --> 13:13.876 [SPEAKER_00]: He says to be careful in choosing but very, very careful of what you say to your closest friends. 13:14.418 --> 13:19.669 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this is some part of wisdom that most of us probably realize on some level. 13:20.130 --> 13:24.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Just because you have close friends doesn't mean that when 13:24.158 --> 13:46.639 [SPEAKER_00]: the stakes are dire when it's life or death or exile or the unknown perils that lie before you that those convenient friends are going to stand beside you till the end or in a less, I don't know, dire perspective that they aren't even just accidentally going to say something to the wrong person. 13:46.619 --> 13:54.095 [SPEAKER_00]: As we've seen already in the story, talking about rumors is a very normal thing for characters in the Shire to do. 13:54.115 --> 14:00.930 [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, it might be even more common in the Shire because of how safe it is. 14:00.950 --> 14:07.243 [SPEAKER_00]: There is very little happening in the Shire that really makes people 14:07.223 --> 14:12.370 [SPEAKER_00]: feel like they're in danger, or feel like it's a huge priority. 14:12.891 --> 14:21.483 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, there are times where say the harvest doesn't come in and food is a little bit more difficult to get, but they aren't often attacked by outside forces. 14:21.944 --> 14:34.682 [SPEAKER_00]: There aren't any major geopolitical things going on or or breakouts of violence in, I don't know, wherever in the shire, like the people of the 14:34.662 --> 14:37.807 [SPEAKER_00]: And what do people do when they're very, very comfortable? 14:38.287 --> 14:41.272 [SPEAKER_00]: They create drama because they're bored. 14:41.772 --> 14:43.535 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just kind of what happens. 14:44.136 --> 14:48.502 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is designed like a very comfortable English countryside. 14:48.923 --> 14:57.134 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can imagine in many of our communities, most of what is happening most of the time is pretty bland. 14:57.575 --> 15:03.083 [SPEAKER_00]: And so people make a big to do about really innocuous things. 15:03.063 --> 15:06.457 [SPEAKER_00]: So what happens when you share something with your closest friends? 15:06.898 --> 15:09.850 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a level above that. 15:10.032 --> 15:14.497 [SPEAKER_00]: it absolutely will get out and Gandalf knows that this is human nature. 15:14.838 --> 15:26.211 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that if Frodo just regularly trusts his friends, which is an instinct most of us have for something this important, then that will have dire consequences. 15:26.731 --> 15:38.385 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though it feels like doing the right thing or being a good person or relying on the people you trust, the question here is, 15:38.365 --> 15:40.410 [SPEAKER_00]: can you actually choose them? 15:40.872 --> 15:44.802 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you be able to bring them along with you on this journey? 15:45.604 --> 15:48.372 [SPEAKER_00]: And for most of your friends, the answer is no. 15:48.432 --> 15:50.818 [SPEAKER_00]: And we get some foreshadowing here as well. 15:51.299 --> 15:54.889 [SPEAKER_00]: The enemy has many spies and many ways of hearing. 15:54.869 --> 16:00.680 [SPEAKER_00]: as we will discover has the story unfolds, not just people, other things as well. 16:01.221 --> 16:05.248 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the moment that this entire chapter has been building to. 16:05.288 --> 16:13.283 [SPEAKER_00]: You can see it as it goes, every so often we get a little bit of an update about what's going on outside the window. 16:13.263 --> 16:22.520 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that Sam has been out there, trimming the garden, doing his job, it is the daytime, as much as it feels dark and sinister due to the conversation. 16:22.880 --> 16:25.345 [SPEAKER_00]: They open the blinds and the light comes back in. 16:26.166 --> 16:29.833 [SPEAKER_00]: But all of a sudden, Gandalf notices something. 16:30.434 --> 16:35.423 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf stops as if listening, and this is from Frodo's perspective in this chapter. 16:35.403 --> 16:42.272 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're told that Frodo became aware that all was very quiet inside and outside. 16:42.312 --> 16:43.573 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this was odd. 16:44.094 --> 16:49.841 [SPEAKER_00]: Previously, they'd heard the sounds of Sam working outside, but yet, that was no longer there. 16:50.702 --> 16:59.233 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf goes to the window and we're told, with a dart he sprang to the sill and thrust a long arm out and downwards. 16:59.213 --> 17:05.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is not just explaining the fact that he was able to catch Sam outside the window. 17:06.126 --> 17:11.416 [SPEAKER_00]: This is showing us that Gandalf, although he looks in acts like an old man, can move. 17:12.077 --> 17:13.781 [SPEAKER_00]: He can respond quickly. 17:13.841 --> 17:18.690 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not just an old man when the time is necessary. 17:19.345 --> 17:24.795 [SPEAKER_00]: but it's just a little thing, little thing right here, which makes future actions more understandable. 17:24.915 --> 17:33.151 [SPEAKER_00]: This is that little moment that justifies the stuff later where people would have complained about, well, is any an old man then how would he've been able to wield that sword or whatever? 17:33.672 --> 17:36.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he's an old man, he's in an old man body. 17:36.457 --> 17:59.173 [SPEAKER_00]: but he's not just an old man and this moment is wonderful Sam gives out a squawk his curly head is hauled by one eargant of crabs him by the ear and pulls him in which feels like the kind of thing an elderly family member would do to a child right like just grab him by something uncomfortable but then I actually heard him. 17:59.153 --> 18:02.500 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this might be the moment where everybody falls in love with Sam. 18:03.361 --> 18:05.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf says he recognizes him. 18:05.205 --> 18:06.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam Gamjee is it. 18:06.988 --> 18:08.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Now what may you be doing? 18:08.952 --> 18:16.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And Sam responds, lore bless you, Mr. Gandalf Sir, not lored, lore L-O-R. 18:16.467 --> 18:18.071 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is interesting. 18:18.732 --> 18:25.348 [SPEAKER_00]: It wouldn't make sense for him to say Lord bless you because he's not a Christian Hobbit or something like that, right? 18:25.729 --> 18:28.535 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the Hobbits are mostly agnostic. 18:28.575 --> 18:32.104 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't really think about the greater powers in any capacity. 18:32.124 --> 18:34.830 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have temples or churches, anything like that. 18:34.996 --> 18:38.482 [SPEAKER_00]: But we have to see Sam through some sort of lens. 18:38.963 --> 18:47.037 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Tolkien is using a phrase that is very similar to the kind of phrase somebody from a world community would use. 18:47.838 --> 18:56.113 [SPEAKER_00]: The in-universe justification for this is that this is a document that was translated and passed down over many, many generations. 18:56.734 --> 18:59.839 [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, these types of, 18:59.819 --> 19:03.182 [SPEAKER_00]: and acronyms would show up in the document. 19:03.362 --> 19:06.105 [SPEAKER_00]: As does happen in our own documents. 19:06.825 --> 19:10.789 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, very old documents get translated and changed over time. 19:11.149 --> 19:24.181 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I learned about recently with the announcement of the Odyssey movie that's coming out is that there are different versions throughout very old historical time of that story. 19:24.481 --> 19:29.826 [SPEAKER_00]: And the way that writers had changed that story, 19:29.806 --> 19:36.679 [SPEAKER_00]: An interesting ways, and so this is kind of in that same kind of category from Tolkien's perspective. 19:37.280 --> 19:39.445 [SPEAKER_00]: And Sam's dialogue is wonderful here. 19:39.485 --> 19:40.507 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, nothing. 19:40.988 --> 19:45.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Least ways I was just trimming the grassboarder under the window if you follow me. 19:45.757 --> 19:52.590 [SPEAKER_00]: If you follow me, that, again, feels like a rural kind of saying that you would tag onto the end of a line. 19:52.570 --> 20:02.548 [SPEAKER_00]: And he shows him the shears, like, hey, though this is what I was doing, like he had an explanation for it, and Gandalf just simply responds, I don't. 20:03.048 --> 20:09.600 [SPEAKER_00]: And calls him out, says there's been a while since he's heard the sound of the shears, and so how long have you been eavesdropping? 20:09.580 --> 20:16.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Eve's dropping is a phrase that we're all familiar with, but it feels like Sam isn't. 20:16.335 --> 20:19.201 [SPEAKER_00]: Or is he just playing dumb? 20:19.261 --> 20:22.890 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Eve's dropping, sir, I don't follow you. 20:23.150 --> 20:27.640 [SPEAKER_00]: Begging your pardon, there ain't no Eve's at back end, and that's a fact. 20:27.620 --> 20:38.335 [SPEAKER_00]: And my sense of this is that this is, I mean, this played up to be a joke, but it's not Sam being secretive or trying to avoid the accusation. 20:38.976 --> 20:41.599 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more of him just being kind of genuine. 20:42.140 --> 20:52.935 [SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't come across the phrase Eavesdropping before, and he doesn't know what it means, but he does work in and around a lot of Hobbit homes, and he knows what an Eaves is. 20:52.915 --> 20:54.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And there aren't any. 20:54.617 --> 20:55.858 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a simple guy. 20:56.059 --> 20:58.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's just a natural response. 20:59.082 --> 21:01.084 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf says, don't be a fool. 21:01.144 --> 21:01.805 [SPEAKER_00]: What have you heard? 21:01.825 --> 21:02.766 [SPEAKER_00]: And why did you listen? 21:02.786 --> 21:08.733 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course Gandalf is way, way tuned up here for the dangers of what's actually going on. 21:09.234 --> 21:14.620 [SPEAKER_00]: And he just warned Frodo about letting other people know things that could get out there. 21:14.980 --> 21:19.986 [SPEAKER_00]: So this from Gandalf's perspective is a dire situation. 21:19.966 --> 21:22.852 [SPEAKER_00]: but it's about to become a solution. 21:23.434 --> 21:29.307 [SPEAKER_00]: We're also told here and it's noted that Gandalf's eyes flashed, which is something that'll happen again in the future. 21:29.347 --> 21:39.409 [SPEAKER_00]: Now Sam is very scared of Gandalf at this point as anybody would be because he's a wizard and he's a lot bigger than you and he seems very, very serious. 21:39.389 --> 21:59.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Sam responds, Mr. Frodo sir, don't let him hurt me sir, don't let him turn me into anything unnatural, my old dad would take on so I meant no harm on my honor sir, and this is funny because it kind of draws a connection to Gandalf being a wizard in a misunderstood way. 21:59.516 --> 22:04.503 [SPEAKER_00]: The same way that so many of us misunderstand the magic in Tolkien's work. 22:05.084 --> 22:08.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam thinks that he could 22:08.228 --> 22:15.539 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not really how Gandalf works, and Frodo has kind of a sense of both of them better than each other does. 22:16.100 --> 22:27.216 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows that Gandalf is extremely serious in this moment, but he also knows that Sam wouldn't hurt a fly, and he was simply being curious about what he heard through the window. 22:27.196 --> 22:36.953 [SPEAKER_00]: And this plays out in a fun way because Frodo is laughing, he can hardly keep from laughing, and he's startled but puzzled at the same time. 22:37.013 --> 22:38.796 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he defends Sam. 22:39.056 --> 22:45.708 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, he knows as well as I do that you mean no harm, but just you up and answer his questions right away. 22:46.108 --> 22:51.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Like explain it to him, explain what's actually going on, be honest here, everything's going to be fine. 22:51.698 --> 22:53.560 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Sam gives his explanation. 22:54.241 --> 23:04.331 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, sir, I heard a deal that I didn't rightly understand about an enemy and rings and Mr. Bilbocer and Dragons and a fiery mountain and elves, sir. 23:05.032 --> 23:21.148 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the moment where Sam becomes the best solution to the problem of Frodo having somebody to go with him because he reveals not only as he being honest in this moment and saying exactly what he heard and how he didn't really understand it. 23:21.128 --> 23:41.263 [SPEAKER_00]: but he reveals something about himself that, up until this moment, we may have thought maybe was there due to the previous conversation we saw Sam have with Ted Sandiman at the pub or the inn, but this is where he really differentiates himself from the other Hobbits. 23:41.243 --> 23:43.608 [SPEAKER_00]: I listened because I couldn't help myself. 23:44.009 --> 23:47.035 [SPEAKER_00]: If you know what I mean, lore bless me, he says lore again. 23:47.395 --> 23:52.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Sir, but I do love tales of that sort, and I believe them too. 23:52.726 --> 23:55.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever Ted may say, elves, sir. 23:55.812 --> 23:57.676 [SPEAKER_00]: I would dearly love to see them. 23:57.756 --> 24:02.205 [SPEAKER_00]: Could you take me to see elves, sir, when you go? 24:02.185 --> 24:09.898 [SPEAKER_00]: In just a few lines of dialogue, Tolkien has given us a glimpse of who Sam really is. 24:10.559 --> 24:18.713 [SPEAKER_00]: He's simple, but he's honest, and he's loyal, and he's curious, and he wants to see the elves. 24:19.495 --> 24:24.463 [SPEAKER_00]: And as we've seen so far, any hobbits who are interested in the elves, 24:24.443 --> 24:25.585 [SPEAKER_00]: are good people. 24:26.086 --> 24:40.573 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something in this world about curiosity about the elves and about wanting to be closer to the elves, which is almost analogous to wanting to be closer to valenor itself, to the origin of all that is good in this world. 24:41.295 --> 24:44.140 [SPEAKER_00]: And we know that this works because Gandalf is 24:44.305 --> 24:49.876 [SPEAKER_00]: Changes his mood completely shifts, he laughs and says, come inside. 24:50.457 --> 25:00.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf is a great judge of character and he knows in this moment that Sam is exactly the person that they would look for to be a companion to Frodo. 25:00.016 --> 25:06.086 [SPEAKER_00]: and he clarifies that you heard that Frodo was going away and Sam confirms it even more. 25:06.126 --> 25:09.252 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, that's why I choked what you heard seemingly. 25:09.372 --> 25:11.976 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried not to serve, but it burst out of me. 25:12.597 --> 25:13.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I was so upset. 25:14.100 --> 25:19.088 [SPEAKER_00]: We're discovering here that Frodo isn't just an employer to Sam. 25:19.068 --> 25:27.498 [SPEAKER_00]: He's one of his closest friends, and again, Sam is the kind of person who doesn't treat friendship lightly. 25:27.959 --> 25:35.488 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, he sees things in Frodo that he himself is inspired by, remember, he knew Bilbo. 25:35.968 --> 25:40.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo told him these stories when he was a child. 25:39.993 --> 25:47.793 [SPEAKER_00]: The inspiration of Bilbo's story, Bilbo's life, is adventures, is something that didn't just rub off on Frodo. 25:48.335 --> 25:49.799 [SPEAKER_00]: It rubbed off on Sam too. 25:50.400 --> 25:55.774 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see this reflected in Frodo, this friendship with Sam already at this moment. 25:55.754 --> 25:56.876 [SPEAKER_00]: Here, let me read this to you. 25:57.677 --> 26:00.202 [SPEAKER_00]: It can't be helped, Sam, said Frodo, sadly. 26:00.222 --> 26:12.362 [SPEAKER_00]: He had suddenly realized that flying from the shire would mean more painful partings than merely saying farewell to the familiar comforts of back end. 26:12.342 --> 26:27.364 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows in this moment, he's looking at Sam in the eyes and realizing that he's going to have to say goodbye to Sam and other familiar comforts, friends, and the safety and comfort of the Shire. 26:27.344 --> 26:28.365 [SPEAKER_00]: But I have to go. 26:28.405 --> 26:31.227 [SPEAKER_00]: But, and here he looked hard at Sam. 26:31.768 --> 26:36.532 [SPEAKER_00]: If you really care about me, you will keep that dead secret. 26:36.552 --> 26:36.752 [SPEAKER_00]: See? 26:37.313 --> 26:40.816 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo in this moment hasn't realized yet the thing that Gandalf has. 26:41.276 --> 26:44.059 [SPEAKER_00]: He's simply responding to the moment. 26:44.379 --> 26:50.384 [SPEAKER_00]: He's sad to have to part with Sam, but he knows of the dangers that Gandalf just warned him about. 26:50.904 --> 26:57.250 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want Sam to be one of those people 26:57.230 --> 27:03.279 [SPEAKER_00]: The Gandalf realizes there's a solution to that as well, because he can tell who Sam really is here. 27:04.381 --> 27:07.166 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam fell on his knees trembling. 27:07.847 --> 27:11.973 [SPEAKER_00]: Get up Sam said Gandalf, I have thought of something better than that. 27:12.634 --> 27:17.061 [SPEAKER_00]: Something to shut your mouth and punish you properly for listening. 27:17.598 --> 27:20.864 [SPEAKER_00]: You shall go away with Mr. Frodo. 27:21.445 --> 27:27.515 [SPEAKER_00]: We've spent this entire chapter learning about how dire the consequences are. 27:28.096 --> 27:36.130 [SPEAKER_00]: The horrors that will unfold on Frodo's journey and the unknown dangers of the future. 27:36.110 --> 27:43.659 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when Gandalf says this to Sam, our expectations are that Sam would realize the same thing. 27:43.719 --> 27:48.705 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, he doesn't seem to, or at least he's not phased by those things. 27:48.765 --> 27:50.087 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he didn't understand them. 27:50.267 --> 27:52.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's just too ignorant to understand. 27:52.390 --> 27:58.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe there's something happening in Sam that isn't exactly described in the text. 27:58.056 --> 28:06.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Something very similar to the flame that 28:06.046 --> 28:10.714 [SPEAKER_00]: but to also see the elves and experience the rest of the world. 28:12.036 --> 28:16.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Measur, cried Sam, springing up like a dog, invited for a walk. 28:17.625 --> 28:19.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Me, go and see elves and all? 28:20.790 --> 28:31.969 [SPEAKER_00]: Ray, he shouted, and then burst into tears. 28:42.952 --> 28:46.436 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, thank you all for being a part of this and supporting the show. 28:46.477 --> 28:47.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody on Patreon. 28:47.658 --> 28:48.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much. 28:48.419 --> 28:57.090 [SPEAKER_00]: Patreon.com slash LOTR, Lord Cast, if you'd like to help support the show, get ad free episodes, get all of the bonus episodes, there are a ton of them. 28:57.110 --> 29:02.978 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't finalized the bonus episode for this week yet, but I have some interesting stuff I'm looking at. 29:03.218 --> 29:04.099 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to say it here. 29:04.079 --> 29:08.747 [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm not 100% sure if I will record that or not for this episode, but that's what I'm going to go do next. 29:09.147 --> 29:12.733 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Thank you so much for your support. 29:36.572 --> 29:46.267 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have to shout out all of our VIP patrons, who, by the way, now get to join me at the end of every month on the last Sunday of every month for a patron chat. 29:46.588 --> 29:48.190 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the benefits you get. 29:48.411 --> 29:50.975 [SPEAKER_00]: And the last Sunday of the month is the 31st. 29:51.376 --> 29:53.599 [SPEAKER_00]: So just a few weeks, we'll have our next patron chat. 29:54.000 --> 29:55.382 [SPEAKER_00]: And you all get to pick, 29:55.362 --> 29:56.444 [SPEAKER_00]: the topic. 29:56.464 --> 29:58.187 [SPEAKER_00]: You get to choose it and we'll discuss it. 29:58.588 --> 29:59.850 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join me for that. 29:59.970 --> 30:00.811 [SPEAKER_00]: That should be a lot of fun. 30:01.232 --> 30:12.311 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, if you'd like to have out in other ways, you can leave a 5 star review on Apple Podcast or some kind comments on Spotify or wherever else you listen, you can join us on the Robots Radio Discord. 30:12.331 --> 30:13.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And here we go. 30:13.533 --> 30:15.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Shoutouts to all of our VIP patrons. 30:15.837 --> 30:21.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to Fulcrum, David S, Daniel Nightweaver, 30:21.046 --> 30:21.608 [SPEAKER_00]: A.K. 30:21.648 --> 30:37.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Musica Glover, Barney D. 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Norwegian Meyer, Mason Weathertop, Jezer, Gimlia Break, Divine Madman, Rosy Rosé, the best display who won is my hero, Eldarian was right, Avarial, Party Snacks, single-ent looking for antwives. 30:37.010 --> 31:04.519 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... norwegian is bruised w our tamis kira c dot s hunter t uh... silver star and my name is august was thank you so much for your continued support and we're finally getting to the journey we're moving to chapter three next week i'm so excited to get into the actual journey and it's fun to dig into all of the like the background of the connections and the foreshadowing in chapter two but we're gonna get into some fun stuff coming up soon and i'm excited for it all right have a wonderful week i'll see you next time 31:07.469 --> 31:10.253 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 31:10.273 --> 31:13.837 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 31:14.278 --> 31:18.623 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more at robotsradio.net. 31:19.104 --> 31:20.946 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 31:21.447 --> 31:28.096 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 31:28.516 --> 31:34.263 [SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 31:34.544 --> 31:35.485 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.