[SPEAKER_00]: This is the Jockel Underground podcast number 213 sitting here with echo Charles.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have some We have some questions from the field from the front lines From the go zone The go zone and we are going to attempt to supply you with answers
[SPEAKER_00]: guidance, or at a minimum, courses of action to follow.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, first question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I try to live by letting small transgressions go, like not speeding up to cut someone off when slowing down gets the same result.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I recently had a situation that made me question where the line is between letting things go and standing up for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: My wife and I were in a long checkout line at a busy big box store.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got behind a woman with a few items and her husband suddenly rolled up with a flat bed, full of stuff and started unloading.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell him, hey bro, you can't just do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He told me to shut up and mine my own business.
[SPEAKER_01]: I asked the cashier if he was really, if she was really gonna allow it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she looked overwhelmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: A manager came over and instead of addressing him, he moved me to another check-out line.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt embarrassed afterward and realized I probably should have let it go.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my question is, where is the line?
[SPEAKER_01]: And at what point do you stand up and say that's not okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: If no one confronts disrespectful behavior, won't people keep doing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you balance self-respect with knowing when to walk away?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, all right, let's let's break this down.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually a very very important question So just a clarifying because it because there was a part that were okay, so he was in line a lady was in front of him with a few items.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, meanwhile
[SPEAKER_01]: That lady with a few items, her husband was apparently shopping still, picking up, you know, a final few items which happened to be, but she sounds like a bunch of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a bunch of them, and just started unloading.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she hit the line first, got the little place in line in a way, started unloading, and then he came in and had it with some additional stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which technically I guess maybe you think I'm going to start to review Cueing etiquette Hmm, right standing like this because that's the thing right we could go there and start talking about like is that a Is that violate is that a violation right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do you think it's a violation?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh?
[SPEAKER_01]: put it this way, I could get there to look.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I was tasked with finding the violation in this very specific scenario, in general, I could probably find it, but at the end of the day and practice in a practical sense, when you're there and it's happening, it's not a bike.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I wouldn't be like, hey, it wouldn't move me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't feel disrespectful to you, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I have a situation like which I'll go over after we'll see what you say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's just interesting because there are, let's say, perhaps unwritten rules that make this a violation or not a violation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And really it depends on who you are, depends on where you grew up, depends on what you think that role into this, this scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not going to talk about that
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it doesn't really matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's not even the question.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the question is where is the line and I'll tell you what very if I try to draw a very distinct line But you want to know where the line is Because it's very easy to sit here and go well, you know, you oh, what someone does that kind of well You if you want to actually draw a line
[SPEAKER_00]: to me, it's physical threat to the safety of my family or my friends or me or an innocent like a bystander, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Meaning someone is going to, someone is in the act of or indicating that they are intentionally going to harm someone, right, attacks someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if they cross that line, I'm going into action.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, they're not going to know it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not community words.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing's going to come out of my mouth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to handle the situation with total hostility and aggression and it's not going to last very long for that person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's here's where we start to break this down.
[SPEAKER_00]: This little feeling that he's got going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: A good thing to think about in this scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: is I will not put myself in a scenario, in a situation where some other persons action.
[SPEAKER_00]: determines the outcome of the scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna say that again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am very extremely cautious Extremely cautious that I don't put myself into predicaments where someone else's behavior determines the outcome of where I end up And I'll tell you why because I can't control other people and I have no idea what they're gonna do and I might think I have an idea What they're doing they're gonna do but I don't
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have any ideal what someone else is gonna do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how they're gonna respond.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can give my suspicions this person looks like their rational, this person looks like they're crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: This person's behaving erratically, this person's behaving normally, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could make those assessments about anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could think you're right and you might not be.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might even be batten.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might even be batten, 90%, 95%, I bet you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet you I bet 90%, I bet you I bet 90% if I assess someone's like where they're at kind of from a mental stability, I bet you I'm at a solid like 90% cool that other 10% outlier is a real problem if you let it be.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: when you confront someone, immediately, immediately when you confront somebody, their response is now the controlling mechanism of the situation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if I confront someone, and they don't respond the way I expect them to, now I have, I have to engage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to escalate and when I escalate and my suspicions will if I escalate a little bit then they'll back down or then they'll take an action that I anticipate which is what I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's no guarantee.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you know what this person went through that day?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you know what's going through their head?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you know what trauma they've been through in their life or not?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know any of that shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you willing to kill a person because they cut you in line at Costco or at Walmart?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna say that again, sounds really stupid, sounds really stupid, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds dumb, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you willing to kill a person because they cut the line in Costco or they cut the line in Walmart?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you willing to kill them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if someone doesn't back down
[SPEAKER_00]: you either have to back down, which is not what you had in mind when you opened your mouth, or you have to escalate until they're dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I being extreme here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm being someone extreme, but you understand what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a legitimate thing to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be a, it's a straw man of an argument, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is right in your, your, your area of expertise, just throwing the straight straw man.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a straw man argument.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you
[SPEAKER_00]: If you take that premise and you actually apply it, it's going to keep you out of a lot of situations that are stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we confront someone in the streets, we have a hope that they give us the response that we expect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the hope that someone, hoping that someone else is going to do something that you expect is not a good move.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is infinitely smarter and better that the outcome of the situation is based on what I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I don't, I don't give away, I don't give away that leverage to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I'm not giving that away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, this is not only applicable in the streets, but it's applicable in anything that you do in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: As often as you possibly can, don't put yourself in a situation where you rely on other people and you're trying to predict their actions and you're trying to account for their idiosyncrasies and their ego and their agenda and their trauma and their psychopathy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all things that can come into play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bad move.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to set yourself up in situations where you get to determine the outcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your behavior determines the outcome and you don't rely on someone else's behavior to determine the outcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the bottom line.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's part one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now does this make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you understand what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like walking down the street.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: does something inappropriate they can't call my wife okay cool turn around walk back and fight them or tell them hey you better you to better apologize yeah watch your mouth cool my expectation is they say oh sorry but they're not going to do that or they may not do that and then what do you better say you're sorry or or I'm going to kick your ass now they think oh I don't want to keep my ass because oh I'm sorry no they don't do that they say fuck you I'll say whatever I want
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now you're getting in their face and you're pointing your finger in their face and you're expecting maybe that close intimidation is gonna make them back down They don't give a shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't care at all They actually want to this kind of engagement because they're crazy
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see where I'm going to now you got to hit this person choke this person whatever now the cops are there or now you got stabbed or now you there's just like all these things which what we've talked about since day one these street fighting snares but it's also like any interaction that you have with people and you get into a negotiation like negotiation when I put the ball in your court the balls in your court the next move is yours it's not mine
[SPEAKER_00]: So why am I going to do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to keep the ball with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to expose myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to give you leverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that this can be tricky for people to comprehend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocco Underground podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to continue to listen,
[SPEAKER_00]: go to jockelunderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the jockel podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you, it's jacco underground.com.
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