WEBVTT 00:08.738 --> 00:11.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to feeding them out of the bite tube. 00:11.183 --> 00:14.909 [SPEAKER_00]: A weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world. 00:15.470 --> 00:20.620 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Cynthia Gannoff, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author, Dr. Ken Wilgus. 00:21.021 --> 00:21.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you feel it? 00:21.522 --> 00:24.747 [SPEAKER_00]: And the air doctor, Ken, can you feel the tension of summer is coming? 00:25.749 --> 00:27.252 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought that was just rain. 00:27.773 --> 00:29.937 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, is that what it is? 00:31.165 --> 00:31.586 [SPEAKER_00]: it is. 00:32.787 --> 00:40.677 [SPEAKER_00]: It is coming and I don't know if I've ever told you about the summer years ago when I was like, we don't need summer camps for our kids. 00:40.777 --> 00:41.778 [SPEAKER_00]: My older two are younger. 00:42.058 --> 00:43.240 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need summer camps. 00:43.520 --> 00:45.382 [SPEAKER_00]: We are going to have a together summer. 00:45.883 --> 00:49.447 [SPEAKER_00]: And we are just going to do all the things and I made a poster. 00:49.467 --> 00:51.790 [SPEAKER_00]: I bought poster board. 00:51.770 --> 00:54.894 [SPEAKER_00]: And I got the kids like two weeks before school is out. 00:55.395 --> 01:00.723 [SPEAKER_00]: And I sat everybody down and I'm like, give me the top 10 things you want to do this summer within reason. 01:01.123 --> 01:02.585 [SPEAKER_00]: And I made this list. 01:02.625 --> 01:03.487 [SPEAKER_00]: It was our summer. 01:03.907 --> 01:05.129 [SPEAKER_01]: The first story isn't it? 01:05.149 --> 01:05.850 [SPEAKER_00]: True story. 01:06.411 --> 01:07.753 [SPEAKER_00]: Summer bucket list. 01:07.773 --> 01:09.014 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to tell you something. 01:09.515 --> 01:13.761 [SPEAKER_00]: I was mom of the year for like 11 days. 01:14.652 --> 01:18.399 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I was scurring to every website looking for camps. 01:18.880 --> 01:22.507 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, their dad is going to harm these children out. 01:22.607 --> 01:24.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, their dad, i.e. 01:24.210 --> 01:26.213 [SPEAKER_00]: my husband's done a horrible job with them. 01:26.714 --> 01:28.397 [SPEAKER_00]: They are not enjoyable people. 01:28.418 --> 01:30.461 [SPEAKER_00]: And not bucket list. 01:30.962 --> 01:35.270 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, listen, we're going to change it to just a few little boxes. 01:35.350 --> 01:36.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep them alive. 01:36.553 --> 01:37.875 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep them fed. 01:37.855 --> 01:50.852 [SPEAKER_00]: Make them not need therapy when they leave my home and that's how that summer went and it's it's it's been something ever since so you've seen major efforts to that sort of flamed out a bit. 01:51.457 --> 01:53.160 [SPEAKER_00]: flamed out my gosh. 01:53.180 --> 01:57.766 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I bet burned down the house without summer, but we are going into summer. 01:57.947 --> 02:02.393 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know for so many of us as parents, especially it's easier. 02:02.413 --> 02:08.602 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when they're younger because you know they're under your rain and they don't have a car they can't go anywhere. 02:08.663 --> 02:20.400 [SPEAKER_00]: They got you know and you and you still kind of try to throw them back to those days where you give them a water hose and set up a lemonade stand and all that but then they turn into teenagers and 02:20.380 --> 02:35.778 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because even for younger kids now, the ideal is not there of just during the summer, just leave the house, come back when the sun goes down, we didn't do that with our kids. 02:35.838 --> 02:41.865 [SPEAKER_01]: It was all part of that whole milk carton kids' movement of fear and monitoring and 02:41.845 --> 02:52.598 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that already changed the expectation for summer and left our kids stuck much more at home. 02:53.101 --> 02:55.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you referencing the missing children on a milk carton? 02:56.024 --> 02:56.745 [SPEAKER_00]: What just happened? 02:56.865 --> 03:00.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or there actually is a band called the milk carton kids. 03:00.730 --> 03:08.459 [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I refer to the morning that I sat at breakfast and saw on the milk carton missing children. 03:08.579 --> 03:11.843 [SPEAKER_01]: That why do I have to see this with my theory? 03:11.923 --> 03:17.269 [SPEAKER_01]: But it did heighten awareness, but also scared a lot of us parents. 03:17.502 --> 03:18.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't let them grow. 03:19.245 --> 03:20.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think about summer? 03:20.907 --> 03:23.010 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not as simple as it used to be. 03:23.772 --> 03:27.197 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. Well, allegedly, you have a checklist for summer. 03:27.297 --> 03:30.402 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not the same checklist that I made of the bucket list. 03:30.442 --> 03:32.465 [SPEAKER_00]: I would assume it's a different checklist. 03:32.485 --> 03:34.328 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, mine's easier, really. 03:34.348 --> 03:38.595 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't involve, it really has more to do with avoiding. 03:38.635 --> 03:42.801 [SPEAKER_01]: So one of the big things that parents of teenagers now, 03:43.068 --> 03:46.052 [SPEAKER_01]: the reason for planning, and I know May is hard. 03:46.072 --> 03:47.594 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what May Simmer means? 03:48.215 --> 03:49.697 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that's like, is that new? 03:49.797 --> 03:50.858 [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen it everywhere now. 03:50.879 --> 03:51.800 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it yesterday. 03:52.361 --> 03:53.602 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've seen it everywhere. 03:54.063 --> 03:54.183 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 03:54.203 --> 03:55.585 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate to add to everyone's burden. 03:55.605 --> 04:02.234 [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, May Simmer is May is sort of like December in terms of burdens, all these activities, all this stuff. 04:02.254 --> 04:03.355 [SPEAKER_01]: So I hate to add to that. 04:03.876 --> 04:12.788 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do want to parents to think about, you can't just lean into, well, we'll cross the finish line when schools out. 04:12.768 --> 04:20.100 [SPEAKER_01]: And then everything's fine because what we just said, what happens after school has changed quite a bit. 04:20.681 --> 04:26.089 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the main things that I really want to encourage parents to think enough about, you're not to get out. 04:26.530 --> 04:35.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't have to do the Cynthia poster board extreme, but definitely think about not falling into that trap. 04:35.785 --> 04:42.296 [SPEAKER_01]: of hours of video games and hours of on the phone and sending it home alone. 04:42.656 --> 04:46.843 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very easy trap for teenagers to fall into. 04:47.244 --> 04:52.292 [SPEAKER_01]: So now while you can still hopefully make things fun or at least encourage them to get out. 04:52.913 --> 04:58.623 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things you have to really think about is announcing early what you're not going to do. 04:59.404 --> 05:09.220 [SPEAKER_01]: We may loosen some of the restraints on video games, but it is by no means going to be all the time you want. 05:10.022 --> 05:13.167 [SPEAKER_01]: There's still, summertime doesn't change the fact that 05:13.147 --> 05:16.339 [SPEAKER_01]: no human being needs more than two hours of a video game. 05:16.781 --> 05:24.068 [SPEAKER_01]: A day that's just not good and when kids are talked with some couples not not that long ago that were 05:24.520 --> 05:29.429 [SPEAKER_01]: their kids was saying, you know, when I don't have my phone or if I can't play games, what am I going to do? 05:30.031 --> 05:32.896 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, well, they're kind of not kidding. 05:33.076 --> 05:34.339 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't really know what to do. 05:34.459 --> 05:40.992 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing they really need to be taught and encourage that you need to figure out what to do when you're bored. 05:42.334 --> 05:45.921 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it is actually a benefit. 05:45.901 --> 05:51.315 [SPEAKER_01]: even if your kids start to complain about it, to think about, look, here's what we're not going to be doing. 05:51.796 --> 05:55.967 [SPEAKER_01]: He's hanging around the house, doing video games and phone, that's not going to happen. 05:55.987 --> 05:57.391 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to keep those limits. 05:58.052 --> 06:00.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a little looser, but still limits. 06:01.055 --> 06:01.356 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:01.636 --> 06:02.237 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:02.257 --> 06:06.444 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I think some of us as adults, we don't know what to do when we're bored. 06:06.484 --> 06:08.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love now. 06:08.628 --> 06:09.329 [SPEAKER_00]: I love now. 06:09.469 --> 06:13.055 [SPEAKER_00]: They call them analog hobbies, which is hilarious to me. 06:13.516 --> 06:15.560 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like off off the phone. 06:15.580 --> 06:22.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's analog off the grid hobbies and, you know, like needle pointing, I'm sure you are not familiar, but this has become big again. 06:22.311 --> 06:23.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I saw that. 06:23.253 --> 06:23.974 [SPEAKER_01]: You're right. 06:23.954 --> 06:30.768 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can needle pointing, all these things, and I just think also as parents, I mean, on my checklist is I need to do that well for myself. 06:30.788 --> 06:43.954 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't really have a hobby that doesn't include my phone or a TV or, you know, those kind of things, and so doing it well as parents, as we're telling our kids, you can't sit on your phone all day, don't mind me, I'm on mine. 06:44.204 --> 06:53.899 [SPEAKER_00]: So what are the things like if we're thinking through like getting in front of it, we need to talk to them about screen usage and let's just stay there for just a second. 06:54.920 --> 07:06.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Is without being hard and fast, every kid's different, every family's different, every circumstances different, but is too hours your number is it like if you're on a video game more than that, we've lost our mind. 07:06.698 --> 07:11.913 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's pretty good evidence that it can become harmful after that. 07:12.274 --> 07:19.594 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to put an absolute line that if they're on for three hours or even four, that's going to do neurological damage. 07:19.996 --> 07:23.699 [SPEAKER_01]: but on the other hand, two hours is plenty. 07:23.739 --> 07:26.322 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not even just the focus part. 07:26.402 --> 07:35.450 [SPEAKER_01]: It is also developed expectation of I need to be entertained by some device at all times. 07:35.910 --> 07:39.873 [SPEAKER_01]: And more and more of our teenagers are being stuck with that expectation. 07:39.933 --> 07:45.498 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'll turn the video game off, hammy my phone so I can text and watch videos. 07:45.538 --> 07:49.682 [SPEAKER_01]: And no, no, no, what you called analog is also known 07:49.915 --> 08:02.354 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it out there and be bored and I've mentioned before that when it comes to the devices, I'm bigger on the screens themselves rather than overfocusing on what is on the screen. 08:02.434 --> 08:15.113 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a very good idea with phones, for example, to, if you don't already have a, have a basket, you know, in the middle of the kitchen where everyone's phone goes, you can come get it. 08:15.093 --> 08:20.702 [SPEAKER_01]: But you do not need to keep it with you when you're in the house and parents can do the same thing. 08:20.763 --> 08:24.789 [SPEAKER_01]: But you really just want to, you know, a lot of teenagers now kind of know this. 08:24.849 --> 08:27.594 [SPEAKER_01]: But you really want to like them up again on listen. 08:27.654 --> 08:36.409 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to talk about this hold, this sucking sound that brings your and our consciousness down into these video games. 08:37.435 --> 08:37.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:38.157 --> 08:48.542 [SPEAKER_00]: Does TV count like in terms of, you know, the, the, the, the kids these days and the rest of us are binge watching, you know, certain shows or whatever does that count the two hours or that's separate. 08:48.607 --> 08:50.369 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's up to the parents. 08:51.090 --> 08:54.895 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the two hours of video game is a particular way to think about it. 08:55.316 --> 08:58.580 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they're watching, nobody really watches TV anymore. 08:58.620 --> 09:06.411 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are watching a larger screen with video things on it, again, I don't want to limit this parents can be creative. 09:06.471 --> 09:12.859 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, you can take off, you know, like if you really want to watch something on a screen, 09:12.839 --> 09:17.187 [SPEAKER_01]: Then get at least two other family members to do it with you and now you can do that. 09:17.367 --> 09:27.045 [SPEAKER_01]: But it has to be social not just you alone or here in the playroom on that on that TV something that is limiting. 09:27.145 --> 09:32.054 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I think the reason we're talking about this so much is probably echoing what's going to happen. 09:32.515 --> 09:36.602 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have a teenager that you just announced basic limits. 09:36.987 --> 09:42.497 [SPEAKER_01]: even limits that include expanded time, and they're flipping out about it. 09:43.078 --> 09:44.400 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the topic right there. 09:44.480 --> 09:51.393 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, when did this two-dimensional screen space become so important to your life? 09:51.433 --> 09:53.456 [SPEAKER_01]: What in the world is going on here? 09:53.897 --> 09:56.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I mentioned, sometimes parents have to think about it. 09:56.362 --> 10:00.008 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, maybe it's creeping up for us as well. 10:00.595 --> 10:11.044 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, so on our summer checklist is change in house rules like phones video games that thank, okay, where what about summer jobs? 10:11.260 --> 10:16.107 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so summer jobs are, I would think of more as summer activities. 10:16.127 --> 10:28.987 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is harder to get stuck with is, well, we told him he had to get a job and he went and told us there are no jobs available and he's been sitting at home, you know, playing video games and he told us that he applied. 10:29.408 --> 10:34.095 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think you really want to combine job slash activity. 10:34.075 --> 10:41.303 [SPEAKER_01]: like you're not allowed to hang out at the house doing this stuff because you're also needing to be involved in something. 10:41.383 --> 10:46.629 [SPEAKER_01]: So for parents, if your kid is under 16, it's harder like that kind of can't get a job. 10:48.151 --> 10:54.898 [SPEAKER_01]: But what you can do is help them to find service that they are expected to be at. 10:54.958 --> 11:00.825 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what your church can be helpful with. 11:00.805 --> 11:02.548 [SPEAKER_01]: warehouse, something work. 11:03.850 --> 11:09.618 [SPEAKER_01]: If they can't get a job, then you will do this volunteer work. 11:09.638 --> 11:11.301 [SPEAKER_01]: And you want to think about setting a minimum. 11:11.321 --> 11:13.304 [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking 20 hours a week minimum. 11:13.364 --> 11:19.213 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, something where they know that the point here is not just to protect your brain from video thing. 11:19.233 --> 11:20.355 [SPEAKER_01]: That is way bigger than that. 11:20.695 --> 11:21.737 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a young adult. 11:21.997 --> 11:25.783 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're constantly 11:25.763 --> 11:41.207 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you need to, if you can't get out there and get a job where you paid for your worth, then we will help you find something where you will be helpful at a homeless shelter and at, you know, things like in our area, there's, uh, 11:41.187 --> 11:55.013 [SPEAKER_01]: a couple of places where you sort donated clothes and do lots of things like that, the point being that, and again, I think parents need to constantly say this, you're not six. 11:55.353 --> 11:57.698 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not just about what you want to do. 11:58.159 --> 12:02.166 [SPEAKER_01]: There are people out there that need your help, and if you can 12:02.146 --> 12:03.970 [SPEAKER_01]: trade your services for money. 12:04.050 --> 12:04.771 [SPEAKER_01]: That's great. 12:05.313 --> 12:13.028 [SPEAKER_01]: But we'll give you two weeks and if not, I've already told you, I've talked to so and so and she says you can come do that and you will have to go do that. 12:13.990 --> 12:23.530 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, it's not, it's not allowing too much video product and number two because you also are not sitting around doing nothing. 12:24.117 --> 12:24.898 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:25.038 --> 12:30.284 [SPEAKER_00]: I've found too, like with our family, like the grandparents are good ground for them to do things too. 12:30.344 --> 12:31.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Go to the yard for them. 12:31.526 --> 12:34.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Go spend time over there and see how you could, yeah, those kind of things too. 12:35.611 --> 12:48.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Our older, older teens that are old enough to get a job, just is your gut generally if that whether or not they need the money or your family needs that contribution if possible put them to work in the summer. 12:48.586 --> 12:54.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, they'll need the job the money because you will cut off their allowance once they're old enough and should get a job. 12:54.675 --> 12:57.519 [SPEAKER_01]: You should, you know, this is tricky business. 12:57.599 --> 13:06.352 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is too easy to actually say you need to get a job and as long as I don't get a job, you keep giving me allowance money. 13:06.673 --> 13:08.856 [SPEAKER_01]: But then when I got a job actually lost money. 13:08.836 --> 13:11.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Because now you don't get me allowed. 13:11.100 --> 13:20.054 [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to be careful with that that at the very least you can have allowance money During the time that you can't have a job because you're in school. 13:20.134 --> 13:35.299 [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing your sport or whatever and then at this point like one or two weeks into summer The reason we're releasing this now though is it's a good idea to talk to your team these you're now Because you also might consider giving them a hard date by June blank 13:35.853 --> 13:41.620 [SPEAKER_01]: uh, you go to one third allowance rate because you'll need to have a job by then. 13:42.501 --> 13:59.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and yeah, again, I think a big part of it is parents are very good now at thinking about what is fulfilling, what is enriching, what helps my child, and as we constantly say off eating them out the bites you, but now that you have a young adult, 13:59.410 --> 14:07.022 [SPEAKER_01]: They need to be putting back into the community, as well as providing for their own spending money. 14:07.563 --> 14:14.214 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, if they are old enough to get a job, I'm perfectly happy with parents, pulling whatever strings they have. 14:14.795 --> 14:20.343 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay to help the kid get a job, but you definitely can't have a teenager that's going well. 14:20.403 --> 14:21.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want that job. 14:21.625 --> 14:24.049 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the jobs I had. 14:24.089 --> 14:25.131 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness. 14:25.567 --> 14:27.850 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the all night printing press. 14:27.930 --> 14:28.551 [SPEAKER_01]: That was fun. 14:29.612 --> 14:31.795 [SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, you know, it paid an extra quarter. 14:31.995 --> 14:32.696 [SPEAKER_01]: I think an hour. 14:32.756 --> 14:38.202 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember, but yep, did that felt so sorry for myself, the whole summer. 14:38.583 --> 14:40.866 [SPEAKER_01]: I was the only sober guy on the floor. 14:40.946 --> 14:42.508 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure everyone was I. 14:44.650 --> 14:46.292 [SPEAKER_01]: So sorry for 11 to seven. 14:46.633 --> 14:49.476 [SPEAKER_01]: And, but I don't remember everything. 14:49.857 --> 14:50.858 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm not going to do that. 14:50.938 --> 14:51.799 [SPEAKER_01]: That's too hard. 14:52.199 --> 14:52.920 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a joke. 14:53.241 --> 14:54.342 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do what you can do. 14:54.862 --> 15:01.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my, my husband always tells our kids that he was a stalker at Target, not a stalker with an STAIL. 15:02.055 --> 15:02.817 [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. 15:03.057 --> 15:03.398 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:03.438 --> 15:03.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 15:04.219 --> 15:08.146 [SPEAKER_00]: One that stalks a groceries and he did that. 15:08.166 --> 15:11.072 [SPEAKER_00]: And because he wanted to play summer ball and it was expensive. 15:11.092 --> 15:13.737 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he had to do it from four in the morning till seven in the morning. 15:13.757 --> 15:15.981 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he would go do baseball or whatever. 15:16.041 --> 15:18.405 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you should ask him if you were knee pads. 15:18.385 --> 15:25.859 [SPEAKER_01]: those stockers where knee pads for the bottom shelves, they, they've been going, yeah, yeah. 15:25.879 --> 15:28.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and and big difference, everyone, between a stalker and a stalker. 15:28.704 --> 15:30.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so we can mention that we can put. 15:30.528 --> 15:35.036 [SPEAKER_00]: If you take nothing else from this, know that we, that's, those are different kids you raise. 15:35.537 --> 15:40.967 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, let's talk about family vacations on this summer checklist. 15:40.947 --> 15:50.670 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm curious what you think that, you know, I think that that's one of those things that so often when when a parent is just 15:51.494 --> 16:00.289 [SPEAKER_01]: so interested in having this great family experience, which is fine, but what's that's kind of left on autopilot? 16:00.409 --> 16:10.406 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want every summer, my kid is 18, 28, 38, let's say my family summer thing. 16:10.426 --> 16:17.738 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a point to start thinking about, yeah, do the fun summer things you can do, especially when they're children. 16:17.718 --> 16:29.252 [SPEAKER_01]: But by adolescence, I think it is definitely worth considering limiting for some, in some cases, amazing vacation for your teenager. 16:29.813 --> 16:45.092 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it gets back to, I know it can feel like such great fun and our great family times, but it is also not the same goal when you have young adults that are supposed to be preparing for their own family. 16:45.072 --> 16:55.044 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're still having these amazing vacations that they'll never match, themselves or their spouses family will never match, you're almost setting things up to be harder for them. 16:55.605 --> 17:02.454 [SPEAKER_01]: So great vacations do not have to be amazing expensive things. 17:02.594 --> 17:04.476 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just time together as a family. 17:04.937 --> 17:09.342 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think by adolescence it's pretty reasonable to to take into account 17:09.777 --> 17:10.879 [SPEAKER_01]: what do they want to do? 17:11.039 --> 17:23.743 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked earlier about, you can add to the adult list, hey, your brother's sister after they're going to bed, but you want to stay up, we want you to talk to us about what are you thinking about for this summer's holiday. 17:24.605 --> 17:31.077 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they're like, we're going to the beach and they don't want, you know, I don't want to go. 17:31.428 --> 17:51.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Then, you know, sometimes you had the decision of, do I want to suffer the disappointment of this kid staying with his friend for a week versus him sitting in the condo while we're all going down the beach and he's sitting there like a vampire playing his video game with no sun coming in, you know, it's like it's not unreasonable to take seriously. 17:51.863 --> 18:06.328 [SPEAKER_01]: Even some, I guess, editing of your otherwise amazing family time, you're hoping to have a teenager is not a great, is not a great fit with that in the same way as children and it doesn't mean anything personal to you as a parent. 18:06.916 --> 18:29.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like there's times in this podcast where I'm wondering if this is just your intervention in my life and really nobody's listening else, but then I I know people are, but I'm listening to that in my take would have been opposite because we've always had the position in our house that 18:29.967 --> 18:31.410 [SPEAKER_00]: but they've been pretty compliant. 18:31.430 --> 18:32.412 [SPEAKER_00]: They know that's what we do. 18:32.813 --> 18:37.443 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've also watched other families who, as some point, they're like, man, trees, white flag. 18:37.563 --> 18:40.871 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing anymore because we're paying a fortune in our teens. 18:40.931 --> 18:42.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Young adults are miserable. 18:42.695 --> 18:45.681 [SPEAKER_00]: They make everyone miserable. 18:45.661 --> 18:48.544 [SPEAKER_00]: My philosophy has always been it's a hard and fast. 18:48.564 --> 18:49.165 [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing that. 18:49.265 --> 18:50.406 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what our family does. 18:50.486 --> 18:51.508 [SPEAKER_00]: It's part of our DNA. 18:51.588 --> 18:52.509 [SPEAKER_00]: We do this in the summer. 18:52.549 --> 18:53.189 [SPEAKER_00]: We end plug. 18:53.209 --> 18:53.790 [SPEAKER_00]: We're all together. 18:54.191 --> 18:57.174 [SPEAKER_00]: But I like what you're saying that like, let's not be to dead horse. 18:57.194 --> 18:59.617 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's no longer working, then it's okay. 18:59.637 --> 19:00.538 [SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing personal. 19:00.558 --> 19:00.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Move on. 19:01.038 --> 19:02.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think you would have done that. 19:02.780 --> 19:08.867 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have your older kids cooperated largely because of 19:08.847 --> 19:10.869 [SPEAKER_01]: their perception that they're respective here. 19:10.889 --> 19:16.714 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not all about, you know, a teenager can smell, oh, this is mom and dad's special time. 19:16.754 --> 19:19.717 [SPEAKER_01]: They want us to all have that, and I'm not going to do it. 19:20.277 --> 19:20.698 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 19:20.718 --> 19:24.962 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I think if they had really pushed back, you would have found a different way to handle it. 19:25.582 --> 19:35.711 [SPEAKER_01]: I just know a lot of parents, like you said, that have wished for continued special family time while their teenager does not wish for those times. 19:36.072 --> 19:38.854 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just saying you need to 19:38.834 --> 19:48.584 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes taking it into account in advance makes a teenager that may otherwise be oppositional, suddenly decide, well, wait a minute, you mean you'd go on without me? 19:48.724 --> 19:48.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 19:49.465 --> 20:04.200 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're not going to do, you will have ants so and so, whom you don't like, but she'll come stay with you because that can in itself is respectful and saying, you know, we're not going to somehow talk you into pretending like you're having a great time. 20:04.670 --> 20:21.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's talk about an issue that I think we all deal with with this age group and that is they've really enjoy sleeping they're the tiredest people you ever been around and then and and they want to sleep till 10 or 11 or one. 20:21.038 --> 20:23.302 [SPEAKER_00]: we've got a few weeks before summer kicks in. 20:23.442 --> 20:26.949 [SPEAKER_00]: What are we going to do about that whole situation and that we're not going to sleep all day? 20:26.989 --> 20:30.936 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this takes care of itself if we have jobs and other things we need to get to. 20:30.996 --> 20:33.000 [SPEAKER_00]: But how do we how do we work through that? 20:33.100 --> 20:33.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we let them sleep? 20:33.921 --> 20:34.663 [SPEAKER_00]: They're young adults. 20:34.703 --> 20:35.885 [SPEAKER_00]: They can sleep what they want to. 20:36.085 --> 20:39.351 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think you kind of answered it. 20:39.331 --> 20:50.667 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that a good schedule, no matter if you have a day off, for many of us, it's like, yeah, but I don't feel right if I sleep in, I feel good when I get up and get going. 20:51.008 --> 21:00.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's from the experience of knowing that I'm needed, that I have to accomplish stuff, and I feel that pressure. 21:00.121 --> 21:10.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think it's much harder to somehow just announce to your teenager, summers coming, but you all still have to be up by 8 or 730. 21:11.214 --> 21:13.837 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to just have you lie around. 21:14.418 --> 21:15.199 [SPEAKER_01]: You can try it. 21:16.120 --> 21:19.164 [SPEAKER_01]: Like everything we talk about, it's how effective is it. 21:19.824 --> 21:23.669 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's much more effective if you have a teenager that is lying around. 21:24.170 --> 21:28.795 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a 21:28.775 --> 21:51.036 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but, you know, for example, the, the now famous printing job I had, I slept in, I mean, I got home at 7 a.m. and I slept until 4, because that's sleeping in, no, it was, because I, you know, so if a kid has a day off, a teenager, 21:51.016 --> 21:54.421 [SPEAKER_01]: and is in fact doing what they need to do. 21:55.141 --> 22:04.073 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that it's super effective to keep requiring them to pretend like you've learned what I've learned, how important and helpful it is to stand to get up early. 22:04.774 --> 22:10.382 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, I think you do better to make sure in advance that they are fulfilling. 22:10.402 --> 22:19.774 [SPEAKER_01]: So even if they are sleeping in, you also can be comforted that I know that when they do get up, 22:20.125 --> 22:21.988 [SPEAKER_01]: these other activities. 22:22.008 --> 22:23.731 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, board self with that as well. 22:24.673 --> 22:25.434 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 22:25.454 --> 22:43.905 [SPEAKER_00]: What about, um, they are wanting to spend an inordinate amount of time with their, maybe a significant other, um, that they're dating someone or they like someone or whatever, and there's that whole balance, like you're never home, you're always with them, um, whether or not we, we love that person or don't, well, how do we balance that with them? 22:43.970 --> 22:45.492 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's two different issues. 22:45.692 --> 22:57.404 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's your kid just has a good friend and she likes to spend all her time at her friend's house, that's definitely something that I would handle it differently than if that friend is a boyfriend. 22:57.424 --> 23:06.093 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if it's a good friend, you know, you do better to try to talk about, you know, I wish you'd hang around here more. 23:08.055 --> 23:12.340 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way we make that better for you, rather than demanding? 23:12.927 --> 23:15.670 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if you're dating, that's a whole different thing. 23:16.190 --> 23:22.717 [SPEAKER_01]: The whole issue there is familiarity that I'm starting at 16. 23:23.197 --> 23:39.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, you'd have a point where we're not going to restrict as much anymore, but not till maybe you spring of senior year. 23:39.674 --> 23:42.639 [SPEAKER_01]: the whole day yesterday in the day before with him. 23:42.679 --> 23:46.485 [SPEAKER_01]: And familiar familiarity in dating is not a good thing. 23:46.565 --> 23:50.251 [SPEAKER_01]: It's bad for you and keeping your own boundaries. 23:50.451 --> 23:54.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I wouldn't be afraid to limit that. 23:54.878 --> 24:00.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it gets back to what how well have you done at really getting your teenager 24:00.734 --> 24:02.656 [SPEAKER_01]: involved up and doing stuff. 24:02.976 --> 24:04.738 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing we haven't talked about is camps. 24:04.758 --> 24:07.041 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a weak camp and doing this or whatever. 24:07.361 --> 24:08.302 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are fine things. 24:08.562 --> 24:11.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Always make sure that your teenager has a vote in that. 24:12.226 --> 24:16.230 [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to involve yourself in at least two camp things. 24:16.330 --> 24:27.282 [SPEAKER_01]: You can pick but you have to go things like that where you are they're not just they don't have the time to sit around doing nothing because they are required to go and do other things as well. 24:27.802 --> 24:32.392 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, can we dig in just a little bit more about this familiarity thing with dating? 24:32.613 --> 24:35.158 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if not, I know we're going to get a lot of emails about it. 24:35.419 --> 24:36.020 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 24:36.040 --> 24:40.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Familiarity is not a good thing in dating relationships. 24:40.029 --> 24:40.770 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do a second. 24:41.412 --> 24:44.258 [SPEAKER_01]: So what a teenager says, 24:44.238 --> 25:01.825 [SPEAKER_01]: mom we're not I'm not going over there having sex the answer that is no probably not but you're going over there a lot you're spending a lot of time together and that kind of time you're even texting a lot and that increases the general intimacy 25:01.805 --> 25:17.839 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're romantically interested in each other and you share a lot of emotional intimacy and time intimacy, then intimacy all moves in one direction and you will naturally really desire sexual intimacy. 25:17.819 --> 25:21.803 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, if we've talked about this before, mom, that's not going to happen. 25:21.843 --> 25:23.484 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not talking about you as a kid. 25:23.664 --> 25:25.746 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true for any adult. 25:26.347 --> 25:28.990 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't spend whole days with a woman. 25:29.030 --> 25:36.396 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not married to hanging out because I'm going to do something inappropriate, not at first. 25:37.077 --> 25:39.099 [SPEAKER_01]: But intimacy is not a good thing. 25:39.740 --> 25:47.607 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a sexual desire can consume anybody. 25:48.093 --> 25:57.551 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I would be pretty straightforward about that rather than a lot of parents try to kind of beat around the bush like, well, haven't you kind of had enough fun already that never goes well. 25:58.233 --> 26:01.439 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you know, I would just be straightforward. 26:03.062 --> 26:05.447 [SPEAKER_01]: You can go do something today, but not with her. 26:06.048 --> 26:08.633 [SPEAKER_01]: You go over your friend, but not with her. 26:08.613 --> 26:14.067 [SPEAKER_00]: We used to tell, um, better or worse, one of our, one of our kids stated someone pretty early. 26:14.107 --> 26:25.575 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, 15, 16, and that age 17, we would always say, you have to spend twice as much time with someone else or group than you do with that personal life. 26:25.555 --> 26:29.500 [SPEAKER_00]: not really because we laid it down pretty early. 26:29.520 --> 26:42.876 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean a little bit, but this kid would say, well, I'm going out with my person or whatever, I'm like, okay, well, tell me who, what guy friends you've been around with this week, what group events have you been to, like, spell it out for me. 26:43.056 --> 26:51.647 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and once that expectation was set, maybe at first we got some pushback, but once it was set, really, that was just kind of how, and I don't even think we got pushed back. 26:51.627 --> 27:07.020 [SPEAKER_01]: that kids senior area would come and say hey you know I did this and this with these people and this and that I'm going to we're going to go out on the date and I'm like all right that's good idea but you heard that because of the kind of respect that they expected from you the other thing you can even mention I have said um 27:07.000 --> 27:33.025 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you have a son that's been into too much homes girlfriend, you might say your future wife has asked me to tell you that, please don't hang out there that much, you know, especially for Christian kids is a good idea to put this back in the context that this is not just some sort of self-help program, this is about your future of romantic relationship, which would be marriage. 27:33.477 --> 27:35.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 27:35.039 --> 27:40.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, last one I want to ask you about is the age-old summer reading that the kids have. 27:41.026 --> 27:43.549 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of these kids have like, you know, the school assignment. 27:43.950 --> 27:48.715 [SPEAKER_00]: For some of them, it might be like college applications are due before you're senior year. 27:49.076 --> 28:03.433 [SPEAKER_00]: There's always that whatever out there that's hanging out there and they're going to do it at the last second if anything is a possibility, they will do it at the last second and then we want them to do it like June second, 28:03.413 --> 28:15.913 [SPEAKER_00]: how do we how do we walk that well because that's always a point of tension and maybe going into the summer if we already say hey I know you're going to have summer reading this is how it's going to work or you know college applications help us with that. 28:16.133 --> 28:24.426 [SPEAKER_01]: So that would depend on if you have given on the freedoms list that they have freedom to handle school the way they want. 28:24.642 --> 28:27.927 [SPEAKER_01]: which for most parents is a fairly early freedom. 28:29.309 --> 28:34.556 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the parent that has been doing that, trying that, like, hey, let's do some reading this weekend, okay? 28:35.257 --> 28:39.363 [SPEAKER_01]: I will, okay, fine, whatever, and it almost seems to make it worse. 28:39.863 --> 28:49.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are all signs that, you know, what we're gonna switch this to, you're in charge of your grades, but how you choose to handle and when you study and all that will be up to you. 28:49.837 --> 28:51.622 [SPEAKER_01]: There'll be consequences for that. 28:51.702 --> 28:55.714 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you've given over that freedom, then I would do the summer reading the same way. 28:56.556 --> 28:57.639 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would announce that. 28:57.659 --> 29:02.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, remember last summer when I was making you, well, as you notice on your freedoms list. 29:03.185 --> 29:04.807 [SPEAKER_01]: we're not trying to control that anymore. 29:04.888 --> 29:07.331 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's up to you about some reading. 29:07.371 --> 29:17.847 [SPEAKER_01]: And then again, parents need to remain reminded when you let go of the control of something that it absolutely doesn't mean you can't communicate about it. 29:17.867 --> 29:18.668 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the reverse. 29:19.149 --> 29:24.737 [SPEAKER_01]: That should give you a lot more ability to go so not going to say anything this summer. 29:24.953 --> 29:30.280 [SPEAKER_01]: But I gotta tell you, it's only three days into the summer and I'm getting nervous for you. 29:30.961 --> 29:33.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Just telling you, it's up to you, but just let, you know. 29:34.425 --> 29:36.688 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you could do the same thing in three weeks. 29:36.768 --> 29:41.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't hammer it enough that you're actually indirectly making me do it. 29:42.015 --> 29:47.502 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's nothing wrong with saying, you haven't looked at the book at all, have units July and they're like, 29:47.482 --> 29:54.971 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know, I'm just telling you, I get worried that's perfectly fine because you've dropped it. 29:55.231 --> 29:58.635 [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, if you really need to know, are we doing anything at all? 29:59.436 --> 30:09.529 [SPEAKER_01]: The great hit that that may take, they will on the expectation that this is probably something if you have more than two seas or whatever it is, then it's going to affect them. 30:09.549 --> 30:11.030 [SPEAKER_01]: They'll be accountable for it. 30:11.751 --> 30:12.392 [SPEAKER_01]: But 30:12.963 --> 30:23.310 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think in most cases, if you've given over the freedom to handle that, then make that part of that deal that I am not going to make you just reminding you because I'm nervous. 30:23.780 --> 30:27.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and on the expectations list, they will have like to repercussions. 30:27.564 --> 30:35.712 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, you don't have to be like, okay, well, I'm not gonna tell you again, but if you get a C, we're gonna like, we're not gonna beat the dead horse, they know what's going on. 30:35.953 --> 30:36.753 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to list. 30:36.773 --> 30:50.007 [SPEAKER_01]: If you, and you didn't have to remind, just, okay, just remind yourself, we said if she has more than one C, and if that's what happens in this regard, then she'll, you know, be without her phone for three and a half weeks or whatever we have on the... Yeah. 30:50.493 --> 30:51.917 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. 30:52.077 --> 30:53.160 [SPEAKER_00]: I said that was a last thing. 30:53.320 --> 30:53.942 [SPEAKER_00]: I changed my mind. 30:53.962 --> 30:54.804 [SPEAKER_00]: I have one last thing. 30:54.844 --> 30:56.067 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the really last thing. 30:56.147 --> 30:56.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready? 30:57.711 --> 31:03.726 [SPEAKER_00]: What about this idea of them of us wanting them to spend quality time with us or with the family? 31:04.528 --> 31:06.192 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're maybe you are working. 31:06.232 --> 31:06.713 [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. 31:06.693 --> 31:09.660 [SPEAKER_00]: or you're with your friends, you know, that's all excellent, whatever. 31:09.740 --> 31:11.343 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you're home, we want you present. 31:11.464 --> 31:15.493 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to watch a show together every night or whatever the thing is. 31:16.815 --> 31:25.174 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a reasonable expectation that they have quality time with us as a family or with their siblings or not so much? 31:25.154 --> 31:27.657 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're always reasonable. 31:28.197 --> 31:30.580 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think of more like what's effective. 31:31.081 --> 31:32.883 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think in approach that two ways. 31:33.544 --> 31:39.030 [SPEAKER_01]: If you really want to encourage them to be a part of like if they're the older kid and they're younger kids. 31:40.311 --> 31:44.156 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's very appropriate to regularly bring up the help that you need. 31:44.196 --> 31:45.637 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, your brother looks up to you. 31:45.657 --> 31:48.040 [SPEAKER_01]: It watches everything you do. 31:48.020 --> 32:00.574 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when we do the family thing on Friday and you don't not there, or if you've got something else, it really does affect him and see if you can encourage them to help with that by volunteering to do that. 32:01.235 --> 32:07.702 [SPEAKER_01]: The other approach that you could do both, which would be if necessary, is saying, look, we do every Friday. 32:07.722 --> 32:15.411 [SPEAKER_01]: His pizza and movie, you know that now that your 15 will lead you there for 32:15.847 --> 32:20.053 [SPEAKER_01]: all but two Fridays you can pick and you don't have to be there. 32:21.014 --> 32:22.396 [SPEAKER_01]: But you could do both of those. 32:22.436 --> 32:30.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm not saying you have to, but it is sad when your brother's there and he's going, where are you, you know, all that, but you don't have to. 32:30.567 --> 32:36.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, the point being give them some sense of the freedom 32:35.995 --> 32:50.439 [SPEAKER_01]: that you are not at the same stage you were when you're little, and definitely don't lean into another discussion of the importance of family and how intimacy is a, you know, that's what you do with your child. 32:51.040 --> 32:54.486 [SPEAKER_01]: This teenager is not against being with the family. 32:54.506 --> 32:58.212 [SPEAKER_01]: This teenager wants to know, fine, when will this be up to me? 32:58.713 --> 33:01.918 [SPEAKER_01]: So you try to work your way closer toward that if you can. 33:02.894 --> 33:08.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I feel like you don't know how good my lectures are, because if you did, you might write another book. 33:08.383 --> 33:11.808 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I give some good, strong lectures on family time, too. 33:11.828 --> 33:15.554 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm sure, and I've told you, I've heard many lectures. 33:15.654 --> 33:19.139 [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite is when a parent is to get in mid-lecture. 33:19.159 --> 33:21.443 [SPEAKER_01]: You and I would probably do this if you were talking about it. 33:21.423 --> 33:35.312 [SPEAKER_01]: and you'd be telling me the lecture and I would interrupt to go, so what did she say and you go, well and you'll finish your lecture to this psychologist because nobody is listening and it's a good lecture. 33:35.353 --> 33:37.116 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know what you mean. 33:37.156 --> 33:38.419 [SPEAKER_01]: And 33:39.057 --> 33:57.403 [SPEAKER_01]: is that is that when you have my kids on the show next and they tell you all of the things you like already had mine and everyone knows the quote you can look it up when my daughter's a daddy I remember that you gave a speeches I don't remember anything you said during your speeches very painful. 33:57.755 --> 33:58.776 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why he wrote a book. 33:59.397 --> 33:59.758 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 34:00.419 --> 34:02.622 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, Dr. Kim, thanks so much. 34:02.762 --> 34:10.973 [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone, we are going to be talking on next week dealing with parents who parent differently than we do, which is probably every parent around you. 34:11.494 --> 34:13.036 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how do we deal with that? 34:13.116 --> 34:15.319 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we got 10 next week, and we'll be back. 34:15.399 --> 34:16.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Dr. Kim. 34:16.321 --> 34:17.282 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Cynthia.