WEBVTT 00:08.738 --> 00:14.892 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Feeding the Mouth of Biteshoe, a weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world. 00:15.474 --> 00:20.625 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Cynthia Gannonff, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author Dr. Ken Wilgus. 00:20.926 --> 00:22.049 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Ken, how are you doing? 00:22.450 --> 00:23.352 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good, Cynthia. 00:23.412 --> 00:24.334 [SPEAKER_00]: How are you? 00:24.314 --> 00:24.935 [SPEAKER_02]: I am good. 00:25.596 --> 00:34.549 [SPEAKER_02]: I've decided as a mother of a younger child, and now I'm in my fifties, you know, like there's certain things I can no longer do. 00:35.190 --> 00:36.312 [SPEAKER_02]: I've shut down some things. 00:36.372 --> 00:45.526 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to start here at, and everyone's like, oh Cynthia started this with her counseling session, but I think this is just really, I'm giving you permission to say I'm not doing this anymore. 00:45.986 --> 00:48.550 [SPEAKER_00]: And let's just share, just share, just let it out. 00:48.580 --> 00:50.463 [SPEAKER_02]: I am laying down on a couch right now. 00:50.543 --> 00:52.325 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if that's what we're supposed to do in therapy. 00:52.345 --> 00:54.448 [SPEAKER_02]: But okay, here's what's happening. 00:54.589 --> 00:56.351 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't longer can do Chuck E. Cheese. 00:56.571 --> 00:56.732 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 00:58.134 --> 00:58.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. 00:59.295 --> 00:59.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 00:59.796 --> 01:02.079 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I ever did Chuck E. Cheese. 01:02.380 --> 01:03.061 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be right now. 01:03.081 --> 01:04.763 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where my family will go. 01:04.803 --> 01:05.604 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you did. 01:05.724 --> 01:07.086 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't remember. 01:07.627 --> 01:13.896 [SPEAKER_00]: You will no longer go to a pizza place whose representative is a rat. 01:14.095 --> 01:14.616 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 01:14.636 --> 01:15.056 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 01:15.436 --> 01:15.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 01:16.417 --> 01:16.878 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:16.898 --> 01:17.298 [SPEAKER_02]: That's one. 01:17.338 --> 01:18.039 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's the second. 01:18.380 --> 01:20.221 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm no longer playing Puppet Golf. 01:21.243 --> 01:21.723 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no. 01:21.763 --> 01:23.385 [SPEAKER_00]: That's problematic. 01:23.405 --> 01:24.086 [SPEAKER_00]: Why is that? 01:24.686 --> 01:26.788 [SPEAKER_02]: Because they're in enough. 01:27.169 --> 01:27.529 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 01:27.970 --> 01:34.016 [SPEAKER_02]: Money in the world or for filmists in my heart to stand on that and just watch it bounce off of every corner. 01:34.076 --> 01:35.918 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't do that anymore. 01:36.278 --> 01:38.100 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's another one that's kind of seasonal. 01:38.140 --> 01:40.643 [SPEAKER_02]: But as we're taping this, we just came out of Easter. 01:40.623 --> 01:44.994 [SPEAKER_02]: I no longer will buy the little easter egg decorating things and hold the wire hook. 01:45.115 --> 01:45.556 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't. 01:45.736 --> 01:54.158 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have it in me anymore to hold an egg on that and help this glid balance it into the water and then slip in some help. 01:54.178 --> 01:56.364 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, the vinegar stinks. 01:56.384 --> 01:57.046 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to do it. 01:57.126 --> 01:57.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:57.447 --> 02:27.454 [SPEAKER_00]: well this year i can tell you you don't have to there's all kinds of new ways to do easter uh... there is the uh... cool with anything method uh... you somehow you color cool whip and you put it in and you pull it out and it doesn't look very good or you have the that expinning thing that is pretty awesome so yeah there's options there's definitely options well here's the last one and this is why bringing all up but um... i'm done with sleep 02:27.434 --> 02:30.077 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to go sleep over with your friends anymore? 02:30.417 --> 02:31.117 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm going to. 02:31.138 --> 02:34.200 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called a girls trip and I'm very fond of that for myself. 02:34.641 --> 02:34.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh. 02:35.281 --> 02:46.852 [SPEAKER_02]: But I shall no longer host the sleep over for young children and maybe not even when the youngest said child becomes a teen because, you know, who nobody sleeps? 02:46.952 --> 02:47.593 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody sleeps. 02:47.613 --> 02:48.634 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the kids don't sleep. 02:48.774 --> 02:49.395 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't sleep. 02:49.575 --> 02:57.002 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody sleeps and I'm too old and so I love that today we're talking about sleep 02:56.982 --> 03:01.266 [SPEAKER_02]: the perspective of a third grade child like I have, but we're talking about it. 03:01.286 --> 03:03.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Sleepovers with teenagers exactly. 03:04.288 --> 03:04.569 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 03:04.649 --> 03:05.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is different. 03:06.130 --> 03:07.511 [SPEAKER_02]: So, let's start with this. 03:07.892 --> 03:09.253 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, where do you land on that? 03:09.333 --> 03:11.315 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, no, or it depends. 03:12.716 --> 03:14.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know where I'm going to land. 03:15.999 --> 03:18.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Somewhere in the depends category, depending upon the age. 03:19.822 --> 03:21.604 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, sleepovers have changed. 03:22.785 --> 03:24.286 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you do sleepovers when you were a kid? 03:24.826 --> 03:25.487 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 03:25.585 --> 03:26.066 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 03:26.086 --> 03:26.286 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 03:26.326 --> 03:32.017 [SPEAKER_00]: So even in your age and then the 50 years before that when I was a kid, we also did them. 03:32.478 --> 03:37.727 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think what was the assumption then was that there was a shared community. 03:38.148 --> 03:45.000 [SPEAKER_00]: You might go to a cousin's house where the parents, your parents had a decent feeling that, yeah, they probably do similar to us. 03:45.742 --> 03:48.707 [SPEAKER_00]: Same thing for for me as stayed with a 03:48.687 --> 03:51.551 [SPEAKER_00]: friends from church and their families were similar to ours. 03:52.012 --> 04:03.709 [SPEAKER_00]: That assumption now is much harder to make parents either don't know the other family as well or even if they know them they can't count on them to have had the same values. 04:04.070 --> 04:07.455 [SPEAKER_00]: So that definitely has changed sleepovers with children. 04:07.435 --> 04:20.010 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's another reason why I'm eager to talk about this with teenagers, because as we always talk about the way you think about these things, sleepovers is one of them, with adolescence is and should be different from when children. 04:20.328 --> 04:21.029 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 04:21.049 --> 04:29.983 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no lies told and this may fall under the TMI, but I think I learned more sex ad sleepovers in high school than I ever learned in my home. 04:31.024 --> 04:42.722 [SPEAKER_02]: One person in particular, lots of conversations, lots of discussions, lots of, not mine, but others personal experience being shared and I was like, wow, okay. 04:43.223 --> 04:46.588 [SPEAKER_02]: So that probably skewed me a little, 04:46.568 --> 04:50.657 [SPEAKER_02]: As my older kids got into the adolescent years, I'm like, oh gosh. 04:50.937 --> 04:53.783 [SPEAKER_02]: So, but so let's just talk about this for a minute. 04:54.044 --> 04:57.691 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's say that we've got an adolescent, and well, let me ask this first. 04:57.932 --> 05:00.898 [SPEAKER_02]: Does it make a difference if it's a boy versus a girl in your mind? 05:01.621 --> 05:28.624 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in practically it does, whether you think theoretically it should or shouldn't is different, but practically it does, you know, there's not evidence that more abuse happens on sleepovers than used to, but our awareness is way up on that, and so, and that awareness really for small children needs to be for boys and girls, but there definitely tends to be, it's not unusual for parents to have much more of a 05:28.604 --> 05:35.313 [SPEAKER_00]: concern about girls and the potential of something abusive happening and they sleep over. 05:35.373 --> 05:43.844 [SPEAKER_00]: So, ironically, for all ages, sleepovers for girls tend to be kind of more important. 05:43.884 --> 05:45.486 [SPEAKER_00]: There's girls very social. 05:45.506 --> 05:51.574 [SPEAKER_00]: They really want to bond together and so forth, so it can be more important even for girls in a way. 05:52.155 --> 05:52.255 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 05:52.275 --> 05:53.537 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have a double standard. 05:53.577 --> 05:58.003 [SPEAKER_02]: I think in my mind because when my kids were that age, my older ones, 05:57.983 --> 06:05.999 [SPEAKER_02]: If my daughter wanted to, I'd be like, oh yeah, I mean, of course, you know, all the girls are going to whoever's house and they're gonna, and if I son, I'm like, all right, what are y'all gonna do? 06:07.422 --> 06:08.604 [SPEAKER_02]: What's everybody up to? 06:08.884 --> 06:09.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Just tell me why now. 06:10.067 --> 06:10.969 [SPEAKER_00]: Just get that. 06:10.989 --> 06:12.351 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you were probably right. 06:12.411 --> 06:15.317 [SPEAKER_00]: We, we did have usually plans to do something. 06:15.365 --> 06:15.906 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 06:16.186 --> 06:25.200 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with a family like our adolescence when it's been in our family's home that we know, we know we agree on family values. 06:25.661 --> 06:34.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Yet, are we still, is it still in bounds to call said family and be like, hey, there's been the night just making sure we're on the same page, right? 06:34.214 --> 06:36.397 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't want them at that party, or I want them home by midnight. 06:36.818 --> 06:43.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Or is this as an adolescent, it's like, no, you go through your son or daughter and you have that discussion with them. 06:43.613 --> 07:03.006 [SPEAKER_00]: as opposed to the other family that's a great question i would consider that and that there's many things you know on the in the book we talk about a freedoms list and uh... things that that happened on a gradient or at age differences so this would be one of its not on the list but it's one that parents should think about is that 07:02.986 --> 07:06.051 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty reasonable for a young adolescent. 07:06.071 --> 07:10.377 [SPEAKER_00]: You still want to know who the parents are and I need to talk to them. 07:10.417 --> 07:12.500 [SPEAKER_00]: But everyone's going over there and that's great. 07:12.660 --> 07:18.709 [SPEAKER_00]: I do need to talk to have that mother or father call me by a certain age. 07:18.749 --> 07:26.040 [SPEAKER_00]: But like everything else, try to pick an age where you can honestly say, Listen, at this age, we won't do that anymore. 07:26.020 --> 07:37.073 [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's, I don't know, junior in high school where sleepovers don't happen as much anyway, but certainly it's not uncommon for a 13 year old, 14 year old, sorry. 07:37.093 --> 07:46.965 [SPEAKER_00]: I still need to know who these parents are, but it helps if you can add that what's coming is that there will be a point where I don't have to know. 07:47.367 --> 07:48.628 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. 07:48.648 --> 07:54.533 [SPEAKER_02]: What if you love the family that's not a safety issue, you're not concerned about that? 07:55.034 --> 07:57.816 [SPEAKER_02]: But you just disagree on something like, I don't know, phones. 07:57.956 --> 08:09.306 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, having the phone upstairs the whole time, or because, you know, girls' employees, social media, I mean, there's a lot of other things in getting to a social media, or being mean, or bullying, or what all the things. 08:09.746 --> 08:16.632 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that something, is that worth the battle to say, you know, I need to hear from them, that no phones are going to be upstairs. 08:17.506 --> 08:44.222 [SPEAKER_00]: see that's a great I'm glad we're talking about that's a perfect example so let's say you are a family that is able to kind of now that you know you're doing it right we have a seventh grader an eighth grader that still has a dumb phone and she knows the smart phone is coming by ninth grader we've told her whatever but she doesn't have a smart phone and she's going to those friends and those two girls both have smart phones. 08:44.202 --> 09:00.086 [SPEAKER_00]: Should we, you know, try to somehow get where that environment matches ours or and I would say in this a great example, no, this is a really important time to with teenagers, you're not just raising them, you're training them. 09:00.707 --> 09:08.438 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that would be a very good opportunity to sit down and say, well, we know that so and so has her own smartphone. 09:08.418 --> 09:19.597 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, does that bother you because especially when you're over there overnight, I think she has that in a room the whole time and really talked to your teenager about their own standard. 09:19.617 --> 09:29.734 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you think of a young child, you want the, hopefully the home that they're staying in allows and disallows the same things that you do. 09:29.714 --> 09:37.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you expect that your kid, except for the occasional being naughty, understands they have to follow rules. 09:37.527 --> 09:43.597 [SPEAKER_00]: With a teenager, now you have a separate issue, which is that house may allow or disallow things. 09:43.877 --> 09:50.608 [SPEAKER_00]: And my teenager may be dying to do the thing that we hope they wouldn't like be on a smartphone. 09:50.588 --> 09:58.817 [SPEAKER_00]: In that case, I would absolutely say they should go, it's one night, you know, they go to the place that is not doing the thing you're doing. 09:59.137 --> 10:01.259 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like they're handing out cigarettes or something. 10:01.699 --> 10:17.676 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and that's a good chance to talk to your teenager about why, you know, how does she feel about this limit, uh, is that embarrassing, um, you know, because obviously you'll be able to do a lot on that phone when you're over there, 10:17.656 --> 10:23.748 [SPEAKER_00]: and be able to, your teenager needs to know that you understand other adults may not agree. 10:24.369 --> 10:29.560 [SPEAKER_00]: You're preparing this teenager for life, not just keeping them safe. 10:29.580 --> 10:39.259 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would absolutely say, in that example, they watch things that you don't allow at home, but you just know that they pick whatever they want to watch. 10:39.239 --> 10:44.790 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a perfect opportunity to talk to your teenager and not restrict them from doing it. 10:45.351 --> 10:49.419 [SPEAKER_00]: But to get their own sense of how they feel about that rule. 10:49.459 --> 10:54.970 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge example of a difference between a nine-year-old say and a ninth grader. 10:55.118 --> 11:04.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was thinking of a situation that one of my older kids had in high school and it wasn't a sleepover per se, but it was an after party from one of the dances. 11:04.590 --> 11:12.020 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they all went to this after party and the parents and charge ended up going out with some friends during the after party and drinking. 11:12.521 --> 11:17.667 [SPEAKER_02]: And so they came back and the kids were not drinking at the home, but the parents came back. 11:17.727 --> 11:20.451 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the kid of the parents who were drinking, 11:21.173 --> 11:23.997 [SPEAKER_02]: basically told all of our kids, they've had too much a drink. 11:24.157 --> 11:26.361 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they should drive y'all back to York. 11:26.421 --> 11:26.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 11:27.162 --> 11:29.225 [SPEAKER_02]: Sleepover house experience. 11:29.245 --> 11:30.146 [SPEAKER_02]: Stand up. 11:30.166 --> 11:39.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, that is at a failure on your part because you didn't make sure or was that a valuable moment of experience for your young adult teenagers? 11:39.860 --> 11:41.563 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think so. 11:41.803 --> 11:46.590 [SPEAKER_02]: I went and picked up all of the kids that were going to this sleepover. 11:46.570 --> 11:47.792 [SPEAKER_02]: And I picked them all up. 11:47.873 --> 11:49.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the parents were unhappy. 11:49.235 --> 11:50.478 [SPEAKER_02]: They were like, we're fine. 11:50.538 --> 11:52.041 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't need to be micromanaging. 11:52.121 --> 11:56.710 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, if I'm told that there's been too much drinking and they're uncomfortable, I'm coming. 11:57.030 --> 11:57.952 [SPEAKER_02]: So, right, pick you up. 11:57.972 --> 12:03.122 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we had the whole car ride back to discuss like one that's so, that's great. 12:03.342 --> 12:04.064 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, good call. 12:04.364 --> 12:05.727 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't get any people are drinking. 12:05.707 --> 12:10.414 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have to actually go for you, if you have to buck authority of adults, then you're gonna buck authorities. 12:10.534 --> 12:11.415 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're gonna show up. 12:11.555 --> 12:14.219 [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody's getting punished for the fact you're in a bad situation. 12:14.239 --> 12:21.269 [SPEAKER_02]: So I would say like I liked it, we there was a thousand opportunities that came out of one kind of unfortunate moment. 12:21.869 --> 12:25.354 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm glad that we didn't just say, well, we don't go to the after parties. 12:25.434 --> 12:27.377 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't call the parents, I, you know. 12:27.577 --> 12:28.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 12:28.699 --> 12:34.307 [SPEAKER_00]: We kind of overvalued safety in parenting nowadays and that really shows up with teenagers. 12:34.407 --> 12:44.562 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not terrible with children if you can succeed in it, but we do tend to think that our job no matter what age is to make sure that little one never got exposed to that. 12:44.963 --> 12:48.488 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that just as you said, that's a great opportunity. 12:48.940 --> 12:54.609 [SPEAKER_02]: and a great opportunity for kids who are going to college within a few years to, I mean, they're going to have these all the time. 12:54.769 --> 12:56.452 [SPEAKER_02]: Are we getting closer to people or not? 12:56.532 --> 13:04.284 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, I like that now looking back, it felt like a nightmare in the moment, but looking back, I might, man, we had some really great conversations around that. 13:04.845 --> 13:12.096 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about, though, those situations where our kids want to go spend the night at a house where we know we're probably not going to agree on values. 13:12.076 --> 13:14.819 [SPEAKER_02]: Does it depend on what kids you're sending? 13:15.079 --> 13:20.084 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like with one of my kids, one of my three, I could be like, you can go to any house you want. 13:20.204 --> 13:21.386 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worth it. 13:21.406 --> 13:22.246 [SPEAKER_00]: With another one. 13:22.266 --> 13:22.847 [SPEAKER_00]: With another one. 13:23.227 --> 13:26.150 [SPEAKER_00]: However, you know, only if I go with other viewers, he's an idiot. 13:26.251 --> 13:27.332 [SPEAKER_00]: He can't, yeah, whatever. 13:27.392 --> 13:28.213 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right, right. 13:29.093 --> 13:30.535 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a really good question. 13:30.875 --> 13:37.442 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, my, the basic answer is no, I think you should try to keep things at age level. 13:37.422 --> 13:54.621 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say that because again, there's an important difference between giving the message that with our teenagers the nicer one the one that fools us better and we think is doing everything we think is right gets more free to that's privilege not freedom 13:54.601 --> 14:02.649 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but what about the kind of foolish young adult or the teenager that I want to be realistic here? 14:02.709 --> 14:07.433 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's more likely to jump along with what the group is doing. 14:07.453 --> 14:17.523 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, in some cases, it's not unreasonable to actually apologize and say, I'm sorry, but I don't have to ask you to have him over here, because you know, the last time you did this. 14:17.903 --> 14:21.807 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would do it sort of apologetically in the sense of 14:21.787 --> 14:44.166 [SPEAKER_00]: again you always want to be as a feeding the mouth parent you're trying to always be on the side of we are trying to leave you alone we're trying to leave these things to you but the better thing to do is to actually have the hard conversation of listen you know you're 16 so you can go back over there I mean it's your choice but number one do you think that's a good idea 14:44.298 --> 14:46.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Because number two, I could be wrong. 14:46.802 --> 14:48.244 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the advice giving part. 14:48.505 --> 14:49.506 [SPEAKER_00]: You start with listen. 14:49.526 --> 14:53.012 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just me, but I can just be honest. 14:53.192 --> 14:56.157 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of think you've turned into an idiot when you're around those guys. 14:57.059 --> 15:01.025 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I'm sorry to say that, but that's how I see it. 15:01.365 --> 15:02.948 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the advantage. 15:02.928 --> 15:19.176 [SPEAKER_00]: of having given freedoms enough so you can really communicate adult to adult, you should be able to have more opportunity to say things that are actually surprisingly kind of honest, but you've what we say in the book, you've locked off the front and back end of a bitter pill. 15:19.557 --> 15:23.063 [SPEAKER_00]: You've started by saying, you know, this is just me, maybe I'm just too worried. 15:23.043 --> 15:38.014 [SPEAKER_00]: but you know you did the last two times you were over there that one time you didn't get caught but that was dumb and then this other time so I think you you're at high risk of getting in trouble this time something happening what do you think and if they're all 15:38.095 --> 15:40.278 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, well, I'm fine. 15:40.318 --> 15:41.040 [SPEAKER_00]: You remind them. 15:41.100 --> 15:42.402 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you can go. 15:42.462 --> 15:44.886 [SPEAKER_00]: You're too old for me to tell you can't. 15:45.386 --> 15:49.032 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could, but you're too old, but I'm just telling you how I feel. 15:49.393 --> 15:56.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time, if they, again, this is the part that if you haven't sat with teenagers for 35 years, you wouldn't realize. 15:56.624 --> 16:00.513 [SPEAKER_00]: how paranoid they can be about not what you're saying. 16:00.533 --> 16:01.715 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not hearing what you're saying. 16:01.816 --> 16:04.061 [SPEAKER_00]: All they're hearing is they're about to say something. 16:04.101 --> 16:05.323 [SPEAKER_00]: They're about to make me. 16:05.444 --> 16:05.925 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to make me. 16:05.945 --> 16:07.669 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to make this this ridiculous. 16:07.729 --> 16:11.136 [SPEAKER_00]: So you really want to when you've eased that up a bit. 16:11.497 --> 16:15.105 [SPEAKER_00]: You should be able to have the the conversation that you think well. 16:15.085 --> 16:16.808 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to hurt their little self-esteem. 16:16.848 --> 16:17.850 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a child. 16:18.171 --> 16:21.337 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a young adult where you can say, I think you're impulsive, dude. 16:21.918 --> 16:24.563 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you get over there, you do stuff you don't think it through. 16:25.064 --> 16:27.809 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not powerless. 16:27.969 --> 16:31.997 [SPEAKER_00]: If anything, it is more powerful than having another battle. 16:31.977 --> 16:39.869 [SPEAKER_00]: Where, you know, it's just my parents don't let me do stuff and they don't even realize or see the thing you're trying to get across. 16:40.249 --> 16:44.756 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think there could be a time you'd have to apologetically, I'm sorry, I can't let you. 16:44.836 --> 16:55.792 [SPEAKER_00]: But you would really want to try to do it the other way, which is the real honest conversation with an adult that you have assured in advance, this talk will end in you going. 16:55.912 --> 16:57.354 [SPEAKER_00]: I am not about to restrict that. 16:57.815 --> 16:59.858 [SPEAKER_00]: But and then you know what I mean? 16:59.838 --> 17:00.379 [SPEAKER_02]: totally. 17:00.719 --> 17:01.621 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's easy. 17:02.281 --> 17:11.354 [SPEAKER_02]: We tend to think the boys too, but I think about our girls too that I want many of them want so badly to be liked and to be included in group. 17:11.735 --> 17:16.021 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, and are willing to compromise things in order to be included. 17:16.081 --> 17:19.666 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that becomes an issue too, especially because girls tend to have more sleepovers. 17:19.866 --> 17:20.327 [SPEAKER_02]: And 17:20.307 --> 17:27.182 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have a girl who's bucking to get in a friend group that, you know, she feels like she has do certain things. 17:27.222 --> 17:28.645 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it goes both ways. 17:29.066 --> 17:36.662 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about, though, if they're going to a house, they want to go to a house that you know you don't agree on things. 17:37.250 --> 17:44.201 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it imbalance, your child's, or your young adult is like, I'm going, you know, you said you were not going to say no, this isn't older adolescent. 17:44.522 --> 17:46.304 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it imbalance to call that parent? 17:46.645 --> 17:50.511 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking of some specific things, like let's talk even like drinking. 17:50.932 --> 17:52.074 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've all heard it. 17:52.214 --> 17:58.043 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I have, or, you know, the philosophy of, well, I'd rather them drink in my house. 17:58.023 --> 18:02.031 [SPEAKER_02]: than somewhere else, I'm like, I would rather than be so I feel like that. 18:02.311 --> 18:03.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've heard that. 18:03.253 --> 18:03.554 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:03.574 --> 18:08.263 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, is it in balance to say, okay, well, if you're going, then I'm going to contact the parents. 18:08.563 --> 18:13.092 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, I mean, then are we a weirdo because we're calling or like, hey, just how far you remember the drinking age, right? 18:13.112 --> 18:15.036 [SPEAKER_02]: Or, I mean, how do you handle that? 18:15.134 --> 18:25.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, again, I think it gets back to, are you talking about calling a parent with a teenager that really wants you to not call that parent or not, because, you know, I'm sure you had this. 18:25.712 --> 18:31.101 [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen especially some very cool mother-and-daughter relationships where they respect to each other. 18:31.081 --> 18:33.185 [SPEAKER_00]: where you could even have an arrangement. 18:33.205 --> 18:47.414 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, well, do you want me to call an act like I'm a real nervous mom and you can roll your eyes later and so forth, but, you know, you want me to check on the, you know, almost an arrangement, you know, where I'm willing to play the over-involved parent if that helps you. 18:48.015 --> 18:53.005 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think in that circumstance, yeah, if you're actually in a circumstance where 18:52.985 --> 18:55.791 [SPEAKER_00]: this older teenager wants to go over to their house. 18:56.232 --> 19:00.421 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I assume we agree, a parent that has a drink. 19:01.142 --> 19:04.349 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not something that puts your kids in danger. 19:04.710 --> 19:10.943 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have reason to believe that this parent will be intoxicated and somehow danger, 19:10.923 --> 19:33.876 [SPEAKER_00]: then by the time your teenagers older I certainly would expect doesn't your teenager know what you mean you know like if if you're the only one going ah I'm uncomfortable that and the teenagers are like that's fine and you know they're funny when they're drunk you have a teenager that does not get the danger that could be involved in that so the bigger issue there is why is your teenager not 19:33.856 --> 19:35.418 [SPEAKER_00]: still wanting to go over there. 19:35.999 --> 19:40.446 [SPEAKER_00]: But in that circumstance, yeah, I think that could be an exception. 19:41.087 --> 19:43.670 [SPEAKER_00]: I would just be careful about how you get your information. 19:43.730 --> 19:54.366 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a real network that will say, I think they, you know, do Satan worship over there at night and you're like, well, I don't know if that's really what's going on. 19:54.727 --> 19:57.771 [SPEAKER_00]: So if there is a real risk, 19:57.886 --> 20:02.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have a teenager that does not know that and doesn't know how to respond to that? 20:02.612 --> 20:04.455 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really what I think is the issue. 20:04.895 --> 20:10.122 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I assume best practices just to post on Facebook a question if anyone thinks this family is off the rails. 20:10.542 --> 20:11.844 [SPEAKER_02]: And just kind of see where it falls. 20:12.285 --> 20:14.768 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why why you're in therapy with me. 20:14.808 --> 20:15.609 [SPEAKER_00]: This is important. 20:16.070 --> 20:19.354 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that I was just here to co-host, but it or not even co-host. 20:19.374 --> 20:22.939 [SPEAKER_02]: Just to be the sidekick, but it turns out this is therapy, okay. 20:22.959 --> 20:24.781 [SPEAKER_00]: All the listeners knew what this really was. 20:24.801 --> 20:26.323 [SPEAKER_02]: They did, okay, excellent. 20:26.303 --> 20:30.629 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, let's talk about when your kid wants to have everybody over in listen. 20:30.849 --> 20:35.235 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you what, the biggest misnomer out there when you have younger kids is all these people. 20:35.255 --> 20:36.997 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, I'm gonna have the cool house. 20:37.037 --> 20:38.719 [SPEAKER_02]: I want everybody at my house. 20:39.180 --> 20:40.682 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna tell you what happens with that. 20:41.143 --> 20:44.707 [SPEAKER_02]: There's some, there's some, and I love them in the Lord, but there's some jerky kids out there. 20:45.048 --> 20:46.810 [SPEAKER_02]: Then all the jerks search your mouth. 20:46.790 --> 20:52.297 [SPEAKER_02]: And so my question is this, what do you do about when your child wants to have the sleep over? 20:52.958 --> 21:04.192 [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just not love the kids and I don't mean you don't love the personality like they're destructive either at your home of your home Maybe their words are such that you're like, that's not how we talk in this house It's not how I treat adults. 21:04.212 --> 21:11.701 [SPEAKER_02]: They're mean to siblings or I mean there's a whole host of things that can happen What do we do in that situation because I would rather than be at my house? 21:12.602 --> 21:13.303 [SPEAKER_02]: But would I? 21:13.874 --> 21:15.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, again, that's a great example. 21:15.597 --> 21:18.762 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very different if it's a child or a teenager. 21:18.862 --> 21:25.432 [SPEAKER_00]: For children, you might even think about it as an opportunity to say, well, we say thank you in this house. 21:25.452 --> 21:27.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you want to be that way to find whatever. 21:27.876 --> 21:28.777 [SPEAKER_02]: I do want to be that way. 21:28.877 --> 21:29.678 [SPEAKER_02]: Good to know. 21:29.698 --> 21:30.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll bet you all. 21:30.800 --> 21:31.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you are. 21:32.264 --> 21:33.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you say yes, ma'am? 21:33.687 --> 21:34.830 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I need to hear yes. 21:34.930 --> 21:40.203 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, but with a teenager, I think there's sort of two levels to that. 21:40.323 --> 21:46.378 [SPEAKER_00]: The one is the kid that is more and more likely, basically kind of entitled. 21:46.358 --> 21:50.503 [SPEAKER_00]: like grab stuff just runs off does not say thank you all that. 21:51.044 --> 22:05.944 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have the right kind of communication with your teenager that you should be having by now with freedom and so forth, what would be really cool is that you and your teenager can lock eyes and both kind of roll your eyes at, wow, that wasn't very, but we're not going to make a thing out of it. 22:05.964 --> 22:12.012 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like we're embarrassed for this, you know, poorly socialized young adult. 22:11.992 --> 22:22.086 [SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, if they have a friend that is absolutely disrespectful to you, I ain't blatant, like, uh, I don't know, orders you around and like, hey, get out of here. 22:22.126 --> 22:29.797 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking or something, or take stuff without asking, uh, whatever, then I think that's a whole different issue. 22:29.857 --> 22:32.160 [SPEAKER_00]: That is about respect for you. 22:32.140 --> 22:36.568 [SPEAKER_00]: And your first step would be, um, uh, take your kid aside. 22:36.608 --> 22:40.115 [SPEAKER_00]: You always want to try to maintain the respect of your, your own kid. 22:40.135 --> 22:41.998 [SPEAKER_00]: They're the one, it's not your job. 22:42.038 --> 22:42.659 [SPEAKER_00]: It's their job. 22:43.040 --> 22:49.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, your, those kids are up there and I already told them they can't have food up there and they, they took all their stuff up there. 22:49.572 --> 22:52.798 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sorry, but I need you to do something about that. 22:53.167 --> 22:56.194 [SPEAKER_00]: and give your teenager the chance to take care of that. 22:56.835 --> 23:04.693 [SPEAKER_00]: And if your teenager won't, then that's the issue is, wow, okay, or these are friends or your masters, like what's up with that? 23:05.215 --> 23:07.420 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we're training your young adults. 23:07.440 --> 23:09.825 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not mainly keeping them safe. 23:09.805 --> 23:39.087 [SPEAKER_00]: But then lastly, the second level would be there is such a thing as saying, yeah, I think it's great for you to have that that girl over that other girl I'm afraid she I don't want her at my house anymore, she broke that thing she we pretty sure she stole that whatever and so and you didn't do anything about it and so I'm so sorry, but I think it's great your friends, but she can't come over and stay the night because of that that hopefully would be very rare. 23:39.067 --> 23:58.088 [SPEAKER_00]: but but it's certainly important for parents to know i've had parents that felt like to be the cool family which apparently you know you you've experienced i've gone through that a hundred times every time you're the cool house that means somebody else that wanted to be the cool house isn't in yours is so don't always try to be the cool house but secondly 23:58.068 --> 24:08.580 [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen parents kind of have to, you know, be different and let kids behave whatever because above all, we want them to still want to come over here. 24:08.660 --> 24:13.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, that mean girl's movie, you don't want to be that, where you're doing whatever. 24:14.047 --> 24:15.428 [SPEAKER_00]: So there is that level. 24:15.508 --> 24:19.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Your first line, though, is to take your kid aside very quietly, I'm so sorry. 24:20.054 --> 24:23.738 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I told you, you can't. 24:23.718 --> 24:25.423 [SPEAKER_00]: they can't do that and they're doing it. 24:25.443 --> 24:27.189 [SPEAKER_00]: So I need you to take care of that. 24:27.670 --> 24:31.883 [SPEAKER_00]: And then secondly, you can hold on to the line of, I'm sorry that kids not allowed here. 24:31.923 --> 24:33.407 [SPEAKER_00]: You heard what you said to your dad. 24:34.069 --> 24:35.955 [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't allow that. 24:36.830 --> 24:39.214 [SPEAKER_02]: You had me at the Mean Girls reference doctor Ken. 24:39.414 --> 24:53.136 [SPEAKER_00]: I really that's that does anyone even know that movie any more I think it was yeah, right in team to pay Such a great it's there was so much fun in that movie Especially the line she doesn't even go here. 24:53.436 --> 24:57.944 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that line On Wednesday we wear pink or that may not be good. 24:57.984 --> 25:03.192 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so okay, so then the other question I have is so 25:03.172 --> 25:12.505 [SPEAKER_02]: If the kids are at our house for the sleepover and we don't allow phones upstairs, I'm assuming this is, your answer is going to change depending on the age. 25:12.885 --> 25:16.831 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't, we're not talking like alcohol, like, we're just not, I mean, no. 25:17.051 --> 25:24.321 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, we smoke and pot in the game room next to the fourth graders room or whatever, but we're talking like preferences. 25:25.403 --> 25:28.126 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, versus legalities. 25:29.148 --> 25:32.132 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we enforce those or not with other kids in our home? 25:32.416 --> 25:44.918 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I think, yeah, that's one of those where the what you're aiming for is saying, hey, I think you told me that his parents let him have his phone in his room all night, and you know, we don't do that. 25:45.880 --> 25:49.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to be cool with saying to him, hey, let's put our phones down here. 25:49.426 --> 25:50.368 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no. 25:50.388 --> 25:51.690 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to do that. 25:51.711 --> 25:53.334 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it embarrassing or whatever? 25:53.414 --> 26:01.470 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know the reason for that is that you guys don't really need to be looking at screens if you're going to visit with each other. 26:01.490 --> 26:03.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully you've gotten something across. 26:03.714 --> 26:08.804 [SPEAKER_00]: I've known a lot of teenagers now that begin to get this that they might agree with that. 26:08.844 --> 26:11.670 [SPEAKER_00]: We're keeping it downstairs. 26:11.650 --> 26:14.876 [SPEAKER_00]: But if they're like, oh, that would be humiliating. 26:15.577 --> 26:18.422 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you really, I mean, I have no problem. 26:18.522 --> 26:20.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, it's not, it's one night. 26:20.525 --> 26:22.549 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you're handing out cigarettes. 26:22.609 --> 26:30.823 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you could, you could say, well, okay, then do you want to keep yours overnight too, or do you want to just put yours down and then just not saying anything to him. 26:30.803 --> 26:45.319 [SPEAKER_00]: try to make a plan that works, but each of these things lets you know a very important element of the answer to all these senior teenagers is my teenager on board with this too or is this just me and that's hugely important with teenagers. 26:45.839 --> 26:46.079 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 26:46.440 --> 26:47.201 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's end with this. 26:48.243 --> 27:00.363 [SPEAKER_02]: This whole discussion is a good problem to have based on what you did about today's adolescence and young adults who would rather be in the basement on video games or whatever the guys are. 27:00.543 --> 27:04.810 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a good problem to have at the extreme right? 27:04.891 --> 27:19.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, or, or I get with quote, get with my friends every afternoon, really, where do you all meet on Call of Duty, okay, that's not getting with friends, and literally there are many teenagers that don't even know what you're talking about. 27:19.893 --> 27:20.974 [SPEAKER_00]: is three-dimension. 27:21.094 --> 27:22.056 [SPEAKER_00]: This is real life. 27:22.596 --> 27:23.117 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not. 27:23.517 --> 27:24.478 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, you're right. 27:24.619 --> 27:29.484 [SPEAKER_00]: I would definitely encourage that as a good problem to have. 27:30.025 --> 27:43.561 [SPEAKER_00]: And don't be afraid of the fact that, yeah, part of sleepover is being having a certain sense of freedom that I'm here in the room or upstairs or whatever, camping out in the backyard. 27:43.641 --> 27:44.422 [SPEAKER_00]: That's real rugged. 27:44.842 --> 27:47.065 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing this with 27:47.045 --> 27:50.210 [SPEAKER_00]: without as much supervision from parents. 27:51.091 --> 27:55.097 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think parents know that try to not be there. 27:55.758 --> 27:57.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Your teenagers will definitely let you know. 27:57.962 --> 28:05.994 [SPEAKER_00]: If I, you know, I think I'm like one of those dads that tries to be funny around my kids' friends when there were teenagers. 28:06.215 --> 28:06.956 [SPEAKER_00]: You're the guy. 28:08.138 --> 28:12.384 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was, there's a line in a good morning Vietnam deep in my heart. 28:12.765 --> 28:14.267 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm funny. 28:14.247 --> 28:17.151 [SPEAKER_00]: and because they didn't think so. 28:17.811 --> 28:21.115 [SPEAKER_00]: And so try to just leave more independence to them. 28:21.215 --> 28:24.039 [SPEAKER_00]: Let them have some time with their phones. 28:24.059 --> 28:25.000 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be any polar. 28:25.881 --> 28:26.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that alcohol? 28:27.103 --> 28:28.624 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but do you want some? 28:29.005 --> 28:29.946 [SPEAKER_00]: She's the cool mom. 28:31.448 --> 28:32.129 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 28:32.789 --> 28:33.190 [SPEAKER_02]: All right. 28:33.390 --> 28:34.792 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good word on sleep, ever. 28:34.872 --> 28:35.753 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Dr. Ken. 28:36.294 --> 28:36.934 [SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you. 28:37.015 --> 28:37.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks. 28:37.776 --> 28:38.196 [SPEAKER_02]: You too.