[SPEAKER_00]: One of your goals is Christian parents is that your children should mature faster than in previous generations.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so important in all the right areas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Home discipleship is gonna be obviously the most important aspect of maturing your children and growing that mud in Christ so that they can,
[SPEAKER_03]: be able to withstand against temptation in this world, but what age have you thought about what age you potentially think of your child launching into adulthood?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they going to be ready?
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I say are they ready?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about are they mature enough to discern between good and evil?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so many aspects to this, but one of the biggest I would say paralyzing
[SPEAKER_03]: or disabling aspects of our culture as these low expectations that are on children and on kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we are diving into what is most vital that is existing within your home discipleship and in your parenting, community, and culture, but also how do you do it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I know that you're gonna be super encouraged today as we're diving into some scriptures that talk specifically about growing and maturity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's some exhortation, some challenges,
[SPEAKER_03]: some encouraging verses that are in there for us as parents as we need to be doing this ourselves so that we can model it for our children.
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to the courageous parenting show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll show notes or courageous parenting.com and the larger ministry of be courageous ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're including courses and coffee and all the things that support us on the mission to impact 10 million legacies and be praying for us as the book is coming soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so excited to give you this new book.
[SPEAKER_00]: So be on alert for that and enjoy the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of the questions that we get a lot, I would say, on the parenting podcast and even just in real life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it comes from an observation of the kids and the things that they're capable of doing is your kids seem more mature than normal.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure that if you've homeschooled, maybe your kids have been accused of having an abnormal maturity or being an old soul of sorts, where they're able to like, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: look at an adult in the eye, shake their hand, have a comfortable, but confident conversation with an adult about things that are actually interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's interesting because while this is like iconically and traditionally, um, common in homeschooled kids, whether you homeschool or not,
[SPEAKER_03]: your children can be mature.
[SPEAKER_03]: They can actually grow.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what we see in society is that there's actually been these low expectations of, well, people talk about low expectations of teens, but I even think it's of children and you hear it in terms or in phrases like, oh, let kids be kids and and oh, boys will be boys and things like that, right Isaac?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so,
[SPEAKER_03]: There's this, we thought that as we were digging into this topic of like raising your children to be equipped so that they launch confidently into this, you know, and certain future that they're going to have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Part of that is instilling in them a spiritual maturity.
[SPEAKER_03]: So are we talking a lot about spiritual maturity today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you mentioned a couple lies right there, boys, boys, kids, because these kinds of things, that's what you expect out of two year olds, waiting till the teenage years is so hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: all of these, all these, you know, things that they're talked about and the reason they're talked about is because they're normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what we've always been talking about is you don't have to have normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to accept normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things can be different.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fruit can look different in your family, but you have to be willing to do things differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you believe in your mind is what you're likely to live out in your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is true because you don't have expectations higher than what you believe in your head for standards and expectations.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have higher expectations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a great parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should have higher expectations than what you see largely around you have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: 78% of the kids leaving the church page 18 raised in Christian homes with intentional parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're an intentional parent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do things differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to experience some challenges bucking the trends, especially in the normal systems of how largely how church is done, how society is done, how sports are done, how extracurricular activity school, and all of these things, you have to be in peer influences from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be very wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: You actually want your children to mature faster than the average peer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of important reasons for that, especially in these unprecedented times.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, obviously, you've probably heard Isaac and I share on the podcast, you know, phrases like you can't lead your kids where you have not been or where you're not going, you are the lid in your parenting in regards to like leadership, truly, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I even think of any organization.
[SPEAKER_03]: the leader is the lid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it can't go beyond where that leader is, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Same for churches.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just natural consequence of the law.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a spiritual law that's out there, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if you're wanting your children to grow in spiritual maturity, then obviously you need to be pursuing growth in spiritual maturity as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's this element of like as parents are digging into the word and they're trying to grow in spiritual maturity part of the desires that your kids would come along with you on that journey, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you talk to them as dare I say as an equal because I really truly believe that that's one of the big distinctions that for us like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, we kind of weren't ruined when we first became parents because we didn't know what we were doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there wasn't this like, oh, you talked to a baby like a baby, kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Instead, like I remember with our first kids, it was like, we were talking to them as if we were talking to each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they grew up with pretty big vocabularies at a young age.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's even true of like our youngest.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they're surrounded by eight kids that were also raised with that same.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of parenting.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just one example of how like when you believe that kids can actually do far more than what most people think they can, they rise to the occasion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're stunted a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why a lot of kids get into the board mode, they get into the rebellious mode as they start getting older.
[SPEAKER_00]: One is the influences.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those influences are dealing the same kind of parenting challenge, probably, in societal challenge and the wrong pressures on them to be less than they were made to be at a young age.
[SPEAKER_00]: and so they are so much more capable and when they're rising to the more and more responsibility, they're feeling more and more capable, more confident, and they're feeling valued.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're feeling like they're making a contribution and people notice that aren't just their age, but are all ages.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is vital.
[SPEAKER_00]: that they're noticing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you put all of that in one direction and one sport and everything's about that, it's just almost impossible for that not to become the idol.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this needs to be in a balanced approach and you need to really see in all areas of life and encourage them to become more mature.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's why it's vital.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the benefits of doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we're gonna talk about how to do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first one is peer influences or less influential in your children.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want that, you want the wrong influences not to influence your children even when they're around your children.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they actually can be lights.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they actually can reach out in his name and they'll stand strong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And regardless of what your environments are, no matter how good they are, you want your children to be leaders.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want them to influence a righteous direction versus fall for a foolish one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Another aspect of that, too though, that is important is finding like-minded community, which I would say is a vital aspect of helping your kids to become mature, because if- Is there a more biblical way to do health care that's more effective than insurance and saves you money?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You're raising your children completely different than absolutely everyone around you, which I'll be honest, I feel like in a lot of ways we have had big gaps of years where we kind of felt like loners in that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we tried hard and we invested in other people and we had biblical community.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that has been a huge game changer because your kids are going to be not only influenced by their peers, but by older people that are in your biblical community as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like having helping them to find other people that are like-minded is incredibly important because if they feel like they're the only one, chances are, they might actually become influenced towards thinking, oh my parents are just weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if there's other people that are in their community that are being raised similarly,
[SPEAKER_03]: and they're like finding good biblical friends then they can run the race with as well as you, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's gonna be incredibly important.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you think that you can raise your kids alone and, you know, isolated and it's just gonna be you guys and you're gonna be in Ireland, the reality is that when your kids launch, they're gonna fall.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're with the potential.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can lead to social awkwardness.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can lead to a lack of confidence in certain social situations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or a high judge mentalism.
[SPEAKER_00]: hard to understand situational, relational dynamics.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important that actually we are running the race with other people and it's okay if we're in different places, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a sanctification process amongst believers and you actually on a spiritual level want your children to mature faster, you want to disciple them so that they are more mature.
[SPEAKER_00]: not only a confidence with all ages, but also in a spiritual maturity and you because you want them to have wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to impart upon them wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want God to be imparting upon them wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if they're anchored and sound biblical wisdom, then they are going to stand firm in the faith in these high-pressure situations, which for you might not feel like high-pressure, but when you're younger,
[SPEAKER_00]: just when you're around other people, it can feel like pressure to conform in a certain direction and you want your children to be so confident that they never succumb to the pressure to conform of the ways of this world, whether it's just in foolish talk, debauchery, gossip, whatever it is, you don't want your children to fall into that because of the peers and the people around them, you want them to stand firm lovingly
[SPEAKER_00]: and lead those situations, they won't unless they have some wisdom and discerning between good news.
[SPEAKER_03]: So one part of it, we're going to read to you first Peter chapter two, verse two, through five is really important because it talks about the difference between spiritual milk and spiritual food.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to look at first Peter chapter two, verse two, it says like newborn infants, long for pure spiritual milk that by it you may grow up into salvation.
[SPEAKER_03]: If indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good, and then it says in verse 4, as you come to him, a living stone rejected by men, but in the sight of God, chosen, and precious, you yourselves, like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: This scripture is actually an important one to talk to your children about, as your kids are growing up.
[SPEAKER_03]: over and over again.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to go and talk to my teenagers about this scripture again if they haven't read it recently because it gives them purpose actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you look at verse 4, it's saying, as you come to him, a living stone rejected by men, but in the sight of God, you are chosen and precious.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your yourselves are like living stones being built up as a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is that is a calling.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is what God wants for His people, but it starts out with understanding that the like newborn babies, newborn infants long for spiritual milk, that they may grow up into salvation.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're supposed to crave the word of God in that same kind of sense that a newborn craves milk from its mother.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, that is a sign of growth, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Without it, there isn't going to be growth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing is maturity cultivates humility.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we become more mature in the Lord, as we understand our relationship grows in the Lord, we start to understand even more how awesome and amazing God is and have some solid introspection about.
[SPEAKER_00]: who we are in our need for God, and that causes humility.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's really important if your children are leading the way, which they need to, in unprecedented times, they need to have experience and confidence to lead, and that maturity, a great aspect of good leadership, is humility.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're going to lead, follow it, let's say there's people around them that are into some follow or less mature, not walking with the Lord, really, maybe not even though the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: you want them to do an aliving and humble way and by their example example example example so powerful and but it takes a surprising amount of ability to resist the pressure to conform to be a godly example in these ages and especially with young people hmm i think that it's important as parents to have a realistic perspective on kids though and so like when they're little not getting upset with them for when they are
[SPEAKER_03]: potentially getting tempted or being led astray, for example, when they're younger younger, because they are children.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it is important that we have a biblical perspective and we understand that children are children, but instead it should just prompt us instead to use every opportunity as a training opportunity for our kids, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, first Corinthians 13, which is the iconic love chapter that's often read at weddings, but I want to just go to verse 11.
[SPEAKER_03]: It says when I was a child, I spoke like a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought like a child and I reasoned like a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: So one way that we can apply this as parents is even to understand like there is definitely a difference between childish ways and ways of a man or ways of adulthood, if you will, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: understanding that they are going to potentially struggle with people pleasing more often or wanting to fit into the group or even forgetting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I just say forgetting for a second?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there are times where kids can be told to do specific things and sometimes if parents are expecting too much out of them and they're giving them a list of like four chores to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: but their brain capacity is only two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we like it would be unfair for us to to be expecting too much out of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we do have to parent realistically having a biblical worldview and recognizing like, yeah, okay, our children are children and there's a childish way about them, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they speak like a child, they think like a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: but we want to teach them along that path.
[SPEAKER_03]: So as they're a child, when they are experiencing disappointment or someone's tempted in them and they've been influenced and they did something that was wrong, using that as an opportunity for training so that they are putting that behind them.
[SPEAKER_03]: That childish way, they're learning from it and able to become more mature.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Loma Churdy too is a barrier to progress because all kinds of things are opening up for
[SPEAKER_00]: just watch the company and hire it as first employee that's a 38 year old.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the barriers to entry for Opportunity and for doing things are gone essentially and so now you're gonna see a whole shift starting to happen, but very easily parents could be
[SPEAKER_00]: overprotective in the wrong ways and actually preventing their children from making progress.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are so capable in the whole society delayed things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Back in the day, 14, 15-year-olds were capturing ships.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were doing so many more things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then our edge of public education system and the mentality that followed from all parents, essentially, it most parents, is that you turn 18 and then you're an adult.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I beg to differ.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our children,
[SPEAKER_00]: have adult-like characteristics at 14 and 15 and in fact you know far more mature than a lot of 18, 19, 20, 30, 40-year-olds sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in some cases and I'm not being arrogant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying this for the outification of the listeners and encouragement.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been through the whole process.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have nine children,
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a four-year-old to a 25-year-old and all in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're seeing something really beautiful happening that we intention to happen, that we are hopeful, what happened, we were praying for that happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've also been taking action all on the way from little to middle to old too.
[SPEAKER_00]: to try and cultivate something different and we're seeing the fruit of that and not perfect, not a perfect family, but we're seeing maturity happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing children that are leading by example and we're seeing the fruit of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, one of our sons just got a job, he was interviewing, he put his resume together and he just got, you know, an amazing job, he's 17 and normally
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, I mean, it was a really healthy process for him because he was able to have a lot of different interviews over the course of a couple of weeks.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say whether that was phone zoom or in person and, you know, the specific company that he's working for now, like they even said, oh, your resume was so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just stood out even over like the 25-year-olds that have five years of experience or the 30-year-olds, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And there were some things in there that were really key phrases that he put in there that they asked him more about but part of it too is that they did a really big background check on him because he was 17 and they were going to be giving them a work van with all these tools and they had to get it all worked out with their insurance and there was just all these like go around and it was a little bit difficult because he's not 18 yet right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in that process like they wanted him so badly they were like we want to retire you Can you please not accept another job just wait just hang on right and then of course like when he goes in for the final interview to accept the job And they're you know telling them all the different benefits.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean we're talking like paid vacation paid sick leave there's medical
[SPEAKER_03]: 401k there's a salary medical, yeah full health dental insurance, all this stuff plus a work van, and to be able to learn from someone who's in their 60s according to him, and which to him is actually like what he was most excited about, because he wants to learn all these things in construction and plumbing and electrical, all the different things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, for him, they recognized that he was excited to learn when that came up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, yeah, you'll be 90 days with him as his apprentice, and then you'll go out on your own and he'll follow you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was like, yes, it's just so great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then I'm going to learn so much, and they're like, wow, you're a sponge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so here's the differentiating factor.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't tell all any of this to you to impress you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not one bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's what is the character of your child?
[SPEAKER_03]: And what is it that you have culturally raised them with to believe that they are capable of, one,
[SPEAKER_03]: and do they have humility and a curiosity of wanting to learn?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have a teachable heart?
[SPEAKER_03]: Are they like a sponge that just wants to soak up information?
[SPEAKER_03]: But also here's the third thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have discernment to be able to tell between good and evil and they're willing to stand up for their convictions and say, no, I don't want to make anything to do with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: because in this process of all these different interviews there was also a totally opposite experience that he had where he talked to a business owner of a construction crew and the guy was like, oh, it says here you're homeschooled and he kind of like mocked him a little bit and was like, so you've been sheltered and isolated from everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, do you even know what guys your age are doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's probably describing the culture of the men on his work crew, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And our son just looked at him and said, yeah, I mean, I know what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're probably into drinking and drugs and sex, but I'm not into that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guy just kind of like sat for a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: and he decided I'm not going to work there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was this element of like he also was looking at what culture do I want to be in?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is this going to benefit me or am I going to be in a culture that's going to be a temptation or I'm going to get persecuted on a regular basis just to even go to work?
[SPEAKER_00]: He also did, there was another job offer where it was a good one, but you would have to travel and he would have to be gone on some Sundays and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's evaluating, wait, I would not be working out with my brothers anymore, I would not be going to worship practice, I wouldn't be on the worship team anymore then, because I couldn't consistently do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'd have to miss my church family on Sundays and he just, that was this decision, I was like, no, I'm not going to go that wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that like for him, just even the conversations and seeking wise counsel, he was constantly coming back to us, not to make the decision for him, but to have a sounding board of wisdom, he knew we were on his team that we wanted what was best for him, and he was just like sharing all these different ideas and opportunities with us and saying, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_03]: and like having their heart in that kind of way is so important also, so there's this element of like you do want to raise them differently, you can raise them differently, you can raise them to believe that they can have a good career that they don't necessarily need to be pumping gas when they're that age, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're talking about differentiating, which is so good and so think about.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's rare when a homeschool curriculum works for all different personalities, but when it does, it makes homeschooling children so much easier.
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[SPEAKER_00]: how can you differentiate your children, cause them to be differentiated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Character is the biggest one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matured is the biggest one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want them more mature than the rest of applicants they're going to be out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to help them with opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So not just skill, it's who are they?
[SPEAKER_00]: What people are looking for today, because they're such a lacking, a finding, good people that are willing to work hard, is that character qualities, and that spiritual maturity component,
[SPEAKER_03]: communicate and learn from all ages so I love all that so yeah it's interesting I was just gonna say like one of the things that we have realized though is that this is all part of family discipleship.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like that one-on-one discipleship with your kids and when you realize that as a parent you're doing the great mission and that what you're doing in your home is discipleship.
[SPEAKER_03]: then you realize that chapters of scripture like Ephesians chapter 4 we're going to look at verse 12 here in a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a scripture where Paul is exerting the church in Ephesus and he's talking about equipping the saints for the work of ministry and so you know what is the tagline of courageous parenting to to equip courageous parents to be equipping and preparing courageous kids for an uncertain world right like
[SPEAKER_03]: there's this element of like that is what we're called to in the great commissioners to equip the saints and that means you as parents are to equip your children.
[SPEAKER_03]: So listen to the scripture it says to equip the saints for the work of ministry because literally it doesn't matter what you're doing you're doing ministry wherever you are you're doing ministry um for the building up of the body of Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: until we all attain the unity of faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, two mature manhood, to the measure of the statute, stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness and deceitful schemes, but rather
[SPEAKER_03]: Speaking truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head into Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: From home, the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped.
[SPEAKER_03]: When each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up and love.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the deal, like as parents recognizing that we have to equip our children so that they're prepared to be active participants in the body of Christ, so that God's will can happen on earth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to go into more of how to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've won the last vital thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to give real examples of when they're little, middle, and older things we've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can get some wisdom from.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the last one is more time in your home guiding them
[SPEAKER_00]: There's more important things to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So based on their maturity, you only have them for so long.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're able to accelerate their maturity, it doesn't mean they don't have fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our children have tons of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: A massive amount of fun, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not the main goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: The main goal is is that they mature spiritually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that they form good character?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when they're having fun, they're going to do it better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be leaders.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be examples.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're not falling into debauchery.
[SPEAKER_00]: that children have with others that they fall in to being followers and they learn the wrong things that go against what you want and so it's really important to think about that but you have more time so they make sure faster whether in your home you have more time to talk about deeper things more important things because they're further along.
[SPEAKER_00]: get them as far along as you can at a younger age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you have a swath of three to six years to talk about more advanced and deeper things and have really start to have adult conversations before they launch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is what you need to really equip them for this much different world.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about how to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: First thing is give your children more responsibility earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember Drew, when we did a vineyard, one of the reasons we did the main reason we did the vineyard actually was just for this, to give our children more responsibility earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the time, I was doing really well in business and I didn't want them to live a privileged life and be entitled and these kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Angie and I prayed and we thought about what's to a list of vineyard.
[SPEAKER_00]: so that they can grow up with them and they can learn hard work and diligence and work as a team together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so literally we did that, we never made money from selling wine or sell even selling the grapes or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole purpose was a work project for the family and there's 1285 plants, so it was a big deal, it was hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Drew really took a liking to us, we gave him his own row about 80 plants.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would tend to cultivate his row, it was called Drew's row.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what a responsibility.
[SPEAKER_00]: What an awesome thing to rise up to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I remember Austin running the tractor at age eight, brand new tractor going through the vineyard rows, not hitting vines, responsible, and trusting him.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to the ladies, I know you're doing things with them, getting a lot to partnership.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, they're entrepreneurship and kids having an experience with being paid for their craft or for their workmanship.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's really nothing quite like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that what you were just talking about is being able to work as a team on something and cultivate something and see fruit from what you have grown, which I think is
[SPEAKER_03]: really iconic for younger kids because a lot of the things that the crafts or the things that little little children can potentially be building are not necessarily things that people would pay for in that sense and they may not even fully remember that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So having projects around the property, around the house or inside the house, outside the house, obviously as a woman, I tried to keep my girls with me as much as possible so I was training them in the kitchen and in the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: with a lot of different things that we were just doing on a daily basis, whether that was cooking and baking and cleaning and different things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course the boys were involved with that as well because I wanted my boys to be trained in how to cook and different things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of them actually really like took a love to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of our kids had a souschef shirt and he just loved being in the kitchen partially because they loved food so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we used to call them the foodie of the family.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think one of our daughters had a little
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, that was a very short-lived project that was maybe like three months, but she created quite a few sewed together some wallets, and then I just like sold them basically on Facebook Marketplace, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was a good experience, because she was getting money for something she created.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of her other sons built a shelf business, sold about 3,000 dollars with a shelf, so he learned all the dynamics from building a website to the challenges of shipping and things breaking to making them better, customer service, and keeping people happy and
[SPEAKER_03]: building a website.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was crucial to him getting this job.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a crucial experience too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And other sudden building flags and selling them wood flags, beautiful lots of different experiences looking for opportunities for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think of, you know, when I used to run conferences and so forth, that would take Austin and Drew and Drew must have been four or five.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe nine, five, six, nine, ten, those were the ages of the two, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: And they would come in their suits and their fedora caps.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't influence the fedora's, but they look really good in them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now Solomon's taking that on too, which is- Well, he's funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wears a different kind of hat.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, entirely.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it will look like they would come to, and their job was to shake hands and greet people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all these people, sometimes a thousand people would come to a conference, and they would be there with me greeting people and shaking their hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that left an impression on
[SPEAKER_00]: these young adults are coming, but it left a big impression on my son's too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just, it's sometimes they would do their home school while I'm sitting there working with a laptop somewhere, and then we'd have car conversations and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we would meet people in the coffee shop, they'd see how dad interacts with the public, and just real positive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think that there was obviously unique experiences that they got to have going to work with you too, where you trusted certain people to teach them specific skills.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just got a memory on Facebook from a long, long time ago, and it was actually Austin sitting at an audio booth at one of your conferences.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he must have been like eight or nine years old and it's just funny because now he's you know almost 23 and Solomon is 10 and he does audio at church and that part partially it's because he's an apprentice to an older gentleman that has taken that on at church and we're just so grateful and it's
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll put a picture of Solomon this Resurrection Sunday yesterday at the audio booth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so you can see what he's doing, but here's the thing is like these different responsibilities that most people would say oh kids are too little for like you just get a bus that up in your head because that's just not true.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lie from the Patellel.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really believe it because kids need to feel like they are valuable just like adults do.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are just many adults in that sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Every person has been created with this God, given innate desire to be able to contribute and to have value and worth and be able to help people and bring value.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when we give kids responsibilities, they just step up in ways that you never thought they could, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's really encouraging to them and it helps them to have a vision for their future that's far beyond what most of society's vision for themselves is actually when they're 14, 15, 16, 17.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I think that there's this element of like, you create the culture in your community that you have there and when you empower other men in your community and women to be sharing different skills with your kids, that for us has been huge in stepping outside of it because you might be thinking all that's all well, good, but I don't have to do an audio board, but you didn't know how to do an audio board, but we had someone in our community that did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I always believe things are possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: People come around and you can people help.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just had a thought that in the old days, the thought was people are adults when they're 18 and then they would go to college for four to six years.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then that would delay their adulthood and it was all about academics.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about career and academics.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you really think about it, the old school thought model.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's career and academics and one thing that I think is disrupted that and a positive way for us, I call it a positive disruption.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always looking for positive disruptions.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is we would do manhood and womenhood ceremonies for our children when they're anywhere between 14 and 16 years old and that has created in the eyes of the children a younger target to be mature and I think that has helped tremendously.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and it's also helped because the community also views them differently because we invite some of them to be a part of the manhood ceremony and then they speak life into them and they treat them differently after that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like when you live in a society where everyone has low expectations of adults, you have to kind of stir people up to think differently about the kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the next point of how to do this is you got to be an agent aggrated environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You really isn't as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can't like if your church isn't integrated,
[SPEAKER_00]: Take your children in the service with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, wherever.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did that forever.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean until until we did home search and then now and And route it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's like, you know, even if your church is not age-integrated Have them sit with you during the whole service.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am telling you it is transformative.
[SPEAKER_00]: Older people will notice They will start to have more conversations with your children.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're more likely to find mentorship opportunities Job opportunities through the body of Christ
[SPEAKER_00]: And these guys are things because they're looking at your children differently because you're
[SPEAKER_00]: bringing importance to them, sitting with adults.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it is so important.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, we've mentioned earlier in this podcast, that's statistic that 70% of young people are leaving the church by age 18, which is just a staggering number.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just huge, it's very sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a barna group step, by the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when you see stats like that, you have to go, okay, you have to question, what is the church doing wrong?
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that there is an element of like what are parents doing wrong because discipleship is supposed to be on the shoulders of parents, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so parents are not taking their kids to church and they're not being faithful in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big problem, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they're modeling it wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for those who are modeling it well and their children are still leaving then it's like, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't blame one only I think that there's like a problem there and then there's the element of like has the child actually accepted Christ personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have a personal faith because they're gonna be held personally responsible for the choices that they make But in Hebrews we have a warning against apostasy
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just have to, I have to share it with you because I believe that it speaks directly to this problem that we're having and it's all about maturity, it literally links the two.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in challenging people to step up, to rise up, to crave spiritual meat, not milk.
[SPEAKER_03]: So verse 11 in Hebrews chapter 5 says, about this we have much to say and it's hard to explain since you've become dull of hearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's our first morning.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't be dull of hearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's listen to what the word of God is saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Verse 12.
[SPEAKER_03]: For though, by this time, you ought to be teachers.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God.
[SPEAKER_03]: How many of you guys have been in the church?
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're still...
[SPEAKER_03]: Like craving spiritual milk because you're not being challenged on the spiritual meat, you're not actually growing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say reflect on the sermons.
[SPEAKER_03]: And reflect on yourself and how much you're actually being in the word.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't expect the church to do all of the discipling in you or in your family.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a personal walk with God.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to be voraciously eating on the bread of life, which is the word of God because it transforms you.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's literally saying here, you ought to be teachers by now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if we're raising up our kids to maturity, then there's going to come a time where they're going to become t-shirts and we need to let them.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to not hold them back.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that's one of the biggest problems is that churches and people in general hold kids back.
[SPEAKER_03]: They hold them back from entering into that rhetoric stage and being able to evangelize and lead other people to Christ because they're what, they're 10?
[SPEAKER_03]: or they're 11 or they're too young, and that's just ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just continue reading here.
[SPEAKER_03]: It says, you need milk, not solid food.
[SPEAKER_03]: For everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's like huge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, he's literally calling them out and saying, listen, you need milk, not solid food.
[SPEAKER_03]: For everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, but solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this is literally like the scripture that I think of when I think of like, are my kids gonna be launched or not?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they have this down?
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is what we should be training them towards is that they would be discerned to distinguish between good and evil, but what is it saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: But solid food, that's the word, solid food, not milk, not spiritual milk, spiritual food, is for mature for those who have their powers of discernment.
[SPEAKER_03]: God has given us powers of discernment is what this is saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there to be trained by constant practice.
[SPEAKER_03]: to discern good for mevel are we sheltering our kids too much to where they don't have practice in discerning good for mevel that's one big big mistake the parents could be making right another would be not even training them in it not teaching them about evil there are so many people out there they just want to focus on good all the time that they fail to teach about the evil that's in the world
[SPEAKER_03]: As parents, we got to take the roasting to glasses off and train them in both.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then at the beginning of chapter six, it continues, says, therefore let us leave elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not lean again, a foundation of repentance from dead works and a faith towards God and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands and the resurrection of the dead in eternal judgment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think a lot of churches feel the pressure to be really secret friendly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because in what I mean by that is keep people on spiritual milk and to not hit the really hard hot button issues of the day maybe not ever talk about politics or side with anything or not even dive deep into the scripture that they're preaching on right and to keep it kind of surface level as to not offend anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: And while the numbers may grow, it doesn't mean spiritual maturity is growing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I am encouraged because I think a lot of churches are waking up and starting to go deeper and we're seeing some churches doing that and it's really encouraging because you may lose some people but you're growing spiritual maturity amongst the body of Christ and so real discipleship's gonna happen in that culture that's not just dependent on staff members
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's essential so people aren't burned out and you're not spending too much money and all these kinds of things and instead the body of Christ is actually working because people are growing and while yeah, you might lose one or here too But but you're also gaining because people are attracted to that and starving for it and then the body of Christ is discipling and so that's really really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: So another thing is don't let older siblings hold your younger siblings down.
[SPEAKER_00]: and teach them to encourage the younger siblings.
[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody's six, you know, make sure the older siblings aren't just looking at them as if they're four or five still.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to have so-remited and a clean slate with their children and help your older children realize how fast they change and you need to help them grow and change and not just have their identity locked on how they were in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that helps them dramatically grow up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our older children have been so valuable, but it's because we have encouraged them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have kept them alert of this thing that can happen inside of them to be looking at them as if they were small.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that causes that in older siblings is when they're always only hanging out with their age in different environments.
[SPEAKER_00]: They start to look down on their younger siblings and further isolate the sibling relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want that in friendships too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: you have to believe big things in them and for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't see bigger things when they're younger, they're going to have a hard time seeing things bigger and you're in control and you're in charge of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how are they how in the world are they going to rise up if to hear if parents are seeing them at this lower level here.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, so you are the lid if you will.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so give them strong expectations without pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so important to have a balance of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bad side is if you have really high expectations and there's pressure on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, your children are thinking to think, you they only get love from you by performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not what it is at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to feel like you love them no matter what, no matter what the faith is, no matter what they do right or wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you're never going to have the open relationship with them where they're going to tell you everything, which is essential as they go in the middle school years and teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So important.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so, so you do have to have really high belief and high expectations while not putting pressure on them and even proactively letting go of any pressure that might be forming.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: have conversations and talk through situational things they're dealing with and constantly be believing in them in big ways while not putting pressure on them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that when you're talking about sibling relationships there's a few things that I just want to bring up for a second because I think that people underestimate the power of sibling relationships and when they believe in each other and I think that we have tried really hard over the years to encourage the kids to be their biggest cheerleaders of one another and
[SPEAKER_03]: The problem though is that, you know, as you're raising your children, they're also going to be influenced by the people that they're spending the most time with, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so you want to teach your kids to be discernment and not necessarily spend all of their time with people who are also self-righteous, who are overly critical, have a critical spirit because then that's going to rub off on them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they're just going to be the Debbie downer in the family that's potentially...
[SPEAKER_03]: Making the younger siblings or even older siblings feel like they're not measuring up to something, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's this need for us as parents to be teaching our kids, hey, be watchful and discerning and do not try not as best as possible to surround yourself with people who have a critical spirit because you will become like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: and a critical spirit will literally destroy someone's confidence and so you don't want to be spending a lot of time with someone who's negative about other people all the time and puffing themselves up because that's really what they're doing is making themselves look and feel good or even justify their way of life by putting other people down.
[SPEAKER_03]: You do that and you're literally going to be a loner.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like no one wants to be around those kinds of people and so
[SPEAKER_03]: it's like you need to teach your kids actually that you need to teach them that hey do you want to be someone that has the ability to share the gospel and speak truth and love?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well if people view you as someone who is self-righteous and overly critical they're not going to want to hear the gospel from you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like literally that is at the crux of what happens is if you're coming across as ultra judgmental and ultra critical, you're literally limiting your ability to do the great commission which is the main purpose that God put you here on Earth for, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so teaching your kids that at first starts with their sibling relationships, they need to be pouring into each other, believing in each other, how we need each other to grow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Isaac said not labeling them as the
[SPEAKER_03]: But believing in them to do great things and when you do that it literally is like skies the limit You gotta also help them know who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of parents don't realize this but they're helping them know who they are
[SPEAKER_00]: and inverses really helping them know who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I mean by that is Dad sometimes will be gearing their children up to go in the same path as them and in work and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not really knowing your children.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not helping them know who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's helping them know who you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have to really find out how are they wired?
[SPEAKER_00]: How are they different than you?
[SPEAKER_00]: what is God's calling on their life and there's ways to figure that out that's a whole another training but there's ways to figure that out that's super important you got to figure that out and then you know it's important to really look at your children and where they gift it and help them discover their gifts you don't want to be like me when I was just joining the church at age 23 and wondering what my gifts are and hearing a sermon you know
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what mine are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what my guess are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, first and foremost, within Christian families, that's where that should be encouraged.
[SPEAKER_03]: The most is I really see you as someone who has the gift of discerning spirits or you're a really good teacher or this and that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like being able to call those things out in each other and to be living for God not for yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like if you're building your own kingdom, you're not going to be worried about and thinking about building God's kingdom.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so as believers, that's what we're called to is to build God's kingdom.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we're actually doing that, then we're going to teach our kids this element of what is their part in building God's kingdom.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that takes you back to spiritual gifts, takes you back to their talents and skills.
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes you back to them giving of their first fruits for God, being equipped and being a participant in the bride of Christ.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a huge deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is this literally alone could swing that 70% are leaving the faith by age 18 stat, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, to recap, discipleship's home discipleship is paramount, sit with your kids in church and cultivate age integration in their lives and amongst siblings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give them more responsibility, the most people are willing to give their children the judge of that and what age and so forth, but usually they're ready for more than you realize.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll rise
[SPEAKER_00]: I have found children tend to rise to the occasion, rise to the level of responsibility you're willing to give them within reason, of course, you know, form a model great character and equip them in some differentiating experiences like entrepreneurship and taking on different things and experiencing different things, get rid of the old model in your mind of when children become adults and
[SPEAKER_00]: mature like adults and things like that and how you're going to launch them and all the stuff needs to be thought about earlier than ever and just make sure your home is full of spiritual growth and spiritual conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also something that I think I skipped is help them understand what's going on in the world and how to articulate and how to talk about those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is super important because it shows maturity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only the mature
[SPEAKER_00]: and able to look adults and eyes able to have intelligent conversations and hold ground on topics and they're not going to get swayed by the hot button issues in society.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is extremely important that you train on all the hot button issues like abortion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like
[SPEAKER_00]: opinions about doctrine and things like that and geopolitical things in regards to doctrine as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know what I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's important to really anchor in all of these things and be talking about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy, they're going to have strong, be able to get grounded opinions and they're going to be able to lead their environments versus following the wrong pressures and environments of waywardness.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, thanks so much for joining us today, and you can find all show notes, including the scriptures that we covered at cragesparenting.com, and the other aspects of our ministry like the merch and other parenting program and courses books that kind of stuff is at bcragismindustry.org.