WEBVTT 00:14.611 --> 00:16.475 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi and welcome to the Working Songwriter. 00:16.735 --> 00:19.641 [SPEAKER_00]: The show where today's best songwriters come to talk shop. 00:20.102 --> 00:21.505 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Joe Pug. 00:22.146 --> 00:32.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Each episode here we host a distinguished guest and we ask them to go deep on their inspiration on their process on the general ups and downs of making a life in music. 00:32.587 --> 00:33.328 [SPEAKER_00]: So, 00:33.308 --> 00:48.133 [SPEAKER_00]: Whether you're a grizzled veteran, attempting to write an entire album using only the mix-alidian scale, or else a scrappy upstart, attempting to scrub your songs of any musical nuance beyond a seventh chord. 00:48.153 --> 00:57.949 [SPEAKER_00]: This is your show because ultimately it is what every writer seeks most in ironclad excuse to put off actually writing. 01:07.767 --> 01:12.834 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, it's the third Friday of April 2026, and I thank you for joining us. 01:12.874 --> 01:14.816 [SPEAKER_00]: This week's show is brought to you by Bandzougle. 01:15.317 --> 01:22.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Built by musicians and four musicians, Bandzougle is in all in one platform to build a beautiful website for your music. 01:23.027 --> 01:27.413 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm old enough to remember when you had to pay somebody called a web developer to get a website made. 01:27.393 --> 01:33.765 [SPEAKER_00]: It would always be some guy named Beaufort, who drove a Hummer H2 that he got from a police auction. 01:34.546 --> 01:40.597 [SPEAKER_00]: And who's always trying to sell you bootleg mix tapes with a gratuitous amount of outcast songs on them. 01:40.938 --> 01:46.448 [SPEAKER_00]: And old Beaufort would charge you about 1,000 bucks for a website that would be obsolete in six months. 01:46.428 --> 01:47.810 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the future now. 01:47.990 --> 01:49.852 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys, that's not how it works anymore. 01:50.132 --> 01:51.754 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Okay, I'll end all the harassment there. 03:53.627 --> 03:55.710 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that you enjoy this week's episode. 04:11.857 --> 04:18.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Arguest this week hails from Augusta, Georgia, but has made his professional bones in music city USA. 04:19.150 --> 04:26.483 [SPEAKER_00]: Charles Kelly was one of the founding members of Lady Antebellum, now known as Lady A, and is one of the group's principal songwriters. 04:26.964 --> 04:33.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Their crossover hit, Neige, now, became one of the defining songs of the 2010s. 04:33.035 --> 04:42.104 [SPEAKER_00]: That group has sold over 18 million albums, one seven Grammy Awards, and their songs have been streamed over five billion with a B times. 04:43.025 --> 04:49.572 [SPEAKER_00]: Along the way, Charles has also released a pair of solo albums, including last year's Song for a New Moon. 04:50.253 --> 04:53.376 [SPEAKER_00]: He's recorded for Capitol Records Nashville and Big Machine. 04:53.976 --> 04:58.081 [SPEAKER_00]: He's toured with Luke Bryan, Tim McGraw, Keith Urban, and many others. 04:58.641 --> 05:02.485 [SPEAKER_00]: He's appeared on the Tonight Show, and the Late Show with David Letterman. 05:02.465 --> 05:13.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Rolling Stone has said that Lady A's vocal harmonies helped redefine country radio in the 2010s, and Billboard calls them one of Nashville's most successful songwriting teams. 05:14.316 --> 05:19.309 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a chance to catch up with Charles a few months ago to hear about his musical journey so far. 05:25.516 --> 05:30.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Charles Kelly of LADA, of your own solo work of many different musical endeavors. 05:30.528 --> 05:33.856 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for being a part of the working songwriter podcast. 05:34.217 --> 05:39.811 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like the house that you grew up in with your two brothers music was not exactly an optional endeavor. 05:39.951 --> 05:42.377 [SPEAKER_00]: You got started pretty early. 05:42.610 --> 05:45.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was something we got into pretty early. 05:45.456 --> 06:01.547 [SPEAKER_01]: My oldest brother, he was about 10 years or the in Josh and I, and he brought home a guitar, one summer from college, and, you know, he really never became that proficient in at my oldest brother, but then Josh picked it up and Josh became. 06:01.527 --> 06:30.808 [SPEAKER_01]: a virtuoso of guitar and many instruments, but yeah, he did that and then I was like, well, I guess I need to find an instrument, so I started playing drums and you know, started singing and Josh and I've found a couple of friends and you know, around Augusta and started a band, so been playing in cover bands since I was about 11 years old, 12 years old, I think 06:30.788 --> 06:32.691 [SPEAKER_01]: They're loving it ever since. 06:33.171 --> 06:33.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man. 06:33.952 --> 06:36.336 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and you guys would even form a band at that age. 06:36.416 --> 06:42.865 [SPEAKER_00]: You even met one of your, one of your musical long time collaborators, David Fayewood at that time. 06:43.105 --> 06:45.909 [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of music were you guys into and listening to at that time? 06:46.530 --> 06:46.990 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything. 06:47.090 --> 06:52.318 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, that's the reason that you hear so many influences on the media. 06:52.358 --> 06:56.303 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, you know, while there's so many influences on this project as well. 06:56.363 --> 06:59.968 [SPEAKER_01]: But I, you know, grew up listening to, 07:00.370 --> 07:07.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything from Brian Adams to Dave Matthews to Led Zeppelin, you know, Nirvana. 07:07.762 --> 07:22.503 [SPEAKER_01]: All of it, I mean, really, that was, I remember the first few records that I can remember vividly like being just obsessed with and moved by was Nirvana never mind and then Fleetwood Mac rumors. 07:23.124 --> 07:26.929 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like at the same time, like those two records just kind of blew me away. 07:27.630 --> 07:31.896 [SPEAKER_01]: And so just, you know, just if always soaked up 07:32.585 --> 07:38.817 [SPEAKER_01]: anything and everything that I loved at the time, you know, could have been boys to men, and I just loved everything. 07:38.878 --> 07:45.170 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I think it couldn't help but eventually all meld together in my, you know, influences. 07:45.190 --> 07:50.481 [SPEAKER_00]: 90s were a great time for that to, you know, that Nirvana never mind record. 07:50.942 --> 07:52.324 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be a hit if it came out today. 07:52.404 --> 07:54.188 [SPEAKER_00]: The melodies are just that. 07:54.337 --> 08:09.493 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree, you know, I tell people what time I say, you know, it must be maybe not quite as as big of a global impact as the Beatles have, but for my generation, I remember a visceral like. 08:09.608 --> 08:29.727 [SPEAKER_01]: reaction like obsessive and just like I've never felt or heard anything like this when I heard that record you know especially smells like teen spirit it just maybe want to like literally jump out of my body and so so yeah a record like that just really you know I can they they timestamp certain points in my life you know 08:30.533 --> 08:36.002 [SPEAKER_00]: So you got started very early, but then you didn't go right into music, and you went to school, you got a degree. 08:36.062 --> 08:41.993 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you even spent some time working for your oldest brother construction and stuff like that. 08:42.834 --> 08:48.103 [SPEAKER_00]: When did you decide to yourself, hey man, actually I'm going to give this a go, I'm going to go for it. 08:48.505 --> 09:01.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, that first year I got out of Georgia and working in the real world I realized I was like, gosh, this is just, you know, again, I mean I was only 23 but I'd already like 09:01.718 --> 09:08.027 [SPEAKER_01]: could see the trajectory of my life heading somewhere that I just knew that wasn't going to make me happy. 09:08.127 --> 09:18.782 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was really fortunate that my brother Josh Kelly had gotten a record deal out of college and he had moved to LA and had some good success. 09:19.684 --> 09:27.034 [SPEAKER_01]: And when he had moved to Nashville, it was like this perfect storm where I was coming up on about a year of working. 09:27.014 --> 09:34.763 [SPEAKER_01]: I just was like, man, I'm so unhappy, I just, I can already see where this is going and he said, man, move the national, you got nothing to lose. 09:35.444 --> 09:48.719 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think if it went from my brother and actually seeing that it was a possibility to have success in the music business because, you know, growing up, I was like, I love playing music, but I don't think I ever really thought it was a job, you know. 09:48.739 --> 09:51.402 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, to me, I think, I 09:52.327 --> 09:58.816 [SPEAKER_01]: seeing him having, you know, gone down that road and then bold enough, it gave me, you know, a little bit of confidence to try it. 10:00.058 --> 10:05.426 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the Nashville that you found on the ground when you got there around 2005, 2006 these days? 10:05.486 --> 10:10.353 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you want to do any kind of music, you can do it in Nashville. 10:10.453 --> 10:12.416 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's like that now. 10:12.637 --> 10:18.044 [SPEAKER_00]: What was it like in 2005 when you got there, was it still just a predominantly, you know, big country music tower? 10:18.084 --> 10:20.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it already shifting into the direction that it would go now? 10:20.508 --> 10:22.771 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was definitely dominated by country. 10:22.831 --> 10:31.824 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you did have some bands like Kings Leon, you know, bubbling on the surface and some different bands like that, but it was, it was definitely country. 10:32.124 --> 10:37.031 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, and honestly when I first moved to town, I didn't know if I was going to be a songwriter. 10:37.071 --> 10:39.635 [SPEAKER_01]: I was still kind of chasing much more of a pop sound. 10:39.695 --> 10:44.001 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I met Hillary and we started writing songs together, 10:44.723 --> 10:50.711 [SPEAKER_01]: It really brought out much more of this warm kind of pop country feel to it. 10:50.832 --> 10:52.534 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we went down that direction. 10:52.554 --> 10:54.477 [SPEAKER_01]: I've just always loved all of it. 10:54.517 --> 11:02.428 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just as much influenced by, for me, my influence is in the country genre more like George straight, Tim McGrawal, Garth Brooks, you know. 11:02.408 --> 11:17.120 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a stretch to pull from those guys which I've always considered to, you know, especially the Tim McGrawls of the world, you know, are pulling just as much from southern rock and, you know, stuff like that as they are from traditional country. 11:17.140 --> 11:20.367 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I feel like with my boys, 11:20.347 --> 11:29.578 [SPEAKER_01]: which was much more of a Southern Rock kind of Bob Seagre type of feel, you know, matching up with Hillary, which is much more of a, you know, a pure country voice. 11:29.838 --> 11:34.363 [SPEAKER_01]: It did create kind of a cool pop Southern Rock country band, you know, and so. 11:34.904 --> 11:35.705 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where that went. 11:35.765 --> 11:42.793 [SPEAKER_01]: But to me, really, it always, my main focus was just writing songs, and I remember kind of even, 11:42.773 --> 11:48.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Passing around some of my songs to some people that my brother Josh got me in the room with and they were like There's a lot of potential here. 11:48.740 --> 12:04.119 [SPEAKER_01]: You need to start writing with some of these great writers in town I remember they would spit off these names, which now, you know, I know it's like the big writers in town But I remember they're like you need to get in the room with window mobile or you know, or this or Victoria Shaw I was like who were those people? 12:04.179 --> 12:06.722 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't know anything about these song writers 12:06.702 --> 12:13.656 [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's good that you were not used to who they were because otherwise you would have been maybe two nervous step in the damn room you know. 12:14.177 --> 12:27.765 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, dude, I can tell you a story specifically when we first Started touring as a band, you know, I think it was probably our fourth or fifth show at a little place called third lens of here in town and you know 12:28.083 --> 12:33.390 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize it, but by the fourth or fifth show, we had about two or three different label heads in there. 12:33.811 --> 12:42.463 [SPEAKER_01]: We had Joe Galonti and all these big people Paul Warley, who we ended up working with on the record, we're in that room. 12:42.563 --> 12:46.749 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if I had known that, I would have been super nervous, but I didn't know how these guys were. 12:46.809 --> 12:57.263 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think everything just kind of showed itself and everything happened for the right reason, but it was funny when I, you know, for me, 12:57.243 --> 13:15.792 [SPEAKER_01]: Star struck when I see a great songwriter in town, you know, like, just has had these world class, you know, types of songs, you know, than anybody else, you know, like Dean Dylan, getting a room with Dean Dylan, you're just like, oh my gosh, this is like the guy. 13:16.447 --> 13:26.986 [SPEAKER_00]: So, when you were getting in the room with some of those more, you know, seasoned and veteran songwriters who had been through the ringer already themselves, what was your first impressions of it? 13:27.006 --> 13:32.556 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, were they just running circles around you and you were trying to keep above water or have you ever? 13:32.837 --> 13:32.937 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 13:33.271 --> 13:49.473 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a little bit of both where I feel like I was bringing in some maybe some different cool melodic outside of the genre ideas, but I think the most thing that impressed me with them was just how they always knew how to get back to the hook. 13:49.493 --> 13:51.176 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was something early on. 13:51.596 --> 13:55.161 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I might have a hook, but then I would have lyrics that didn't really 13:55.883 --> 14:14.871 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, everything needs to lead back to that hook at some point, you know, and just the way that they're able to turn a phrase and make, you know, make something super creative and out of, you know, maybe the simplest lyric, you know, and but I do think there is there's a certain structure that that. 14:14.851 --> 14:37.281 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even as I've written more that you just know, it's like you, you naturally know how to like create it and get back to that thing but there is this certain level of innocence when you don't know how to write a hit song that makes you go to places that Once you know how to write a hit song that you can't go back to and I feel like 14:37.413 --> 14:41.919 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why there was some interesting, our first record. 14:41.959 --> 14:46.946 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you listen to our first single, love to live here, I mean, it's a minute and a half before it even gets the chorus. 14:47.006 --> 14:52.834 [SPEAKER_01]: It's two full verses before it gets the chorus, then it has a half verse, and then a chorus and an outro. 14:52.874 --> 14:53.956 [SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't have a bridge. 14:54.116 --> 14:55.458 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't even have three choruses. 14:56.359 --> 14:57.361 [SPEAKER_01]: I would never do that now. 14:57.661 --> 14:58.502 [SPEAKER_01]: But it feels right. 14:58.903 --> 14:59.624 [SPEAKER_01]: It just feels right. 14:59.664 --> 15:02.027 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think sometimes you have to get out of your way too. 15:02.127 --> 15:04.230 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's this beautiful balance. 15:04.210 --> 15:13.309 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I love karate and that's why I love riding with new artists too, because like they're coming in with a little more of this fresh knife 15:14.133 --> 15:28.074 [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful, you know, I don't know how to say it, just the waters haven't been too muddy, yup, you know, it's a common fresh idea and then I'm there to help kind of like structure it, pull out the good bits and get rid of the ones that don't make sense. 15:28.134 --> 15:38.088 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the beauty of co-writing, you know, but there's no way I could have become the song or I'd or I am, but they without being in the room with Josh Keer, you know, without being in the room with Tom Douglas. 15:38.569 --> 15:41.153 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, those guys are, 15:41.133 --> 15:43.618 [SPEAKER_01]: at the top of the list, you know, I mean, Hillary Lindsey. 15:43.858 --> 15:46.704 [SPEAKER_01]: She's just always has the answer. 15:46.764 --> 15:49.049 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's one of those things when I write songs like by myself. 15:49.109 --> 15:56.644 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I can get a song about 75, 80 percent, but I'll always get stuck and I feel like those guys never get stuck. 15:57.755 --> 16:02.323 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you're your graduate school except you didn't have to take out an $80,000 loan. 16:04.807 --> 16:23.779 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, our first year on the road, I'm out with people realizing, we were like, open it up for these big artists and stuff and we're getting those so you were, maybe $2,000 for the show and it's costing us about six grand and just to be on the page and I was like, I think we're in the hole about a 200 grand or first year out. 16:24.417 --> 16:25.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it worked out. 16:26.320 --> 16:31.589 [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny hearing you talk about that for a single and not getting to the chorus a minute and a half. 16:31.609 --> 16:34.173 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just listening to, don't stop believing the other day. 16:34.233 --> 16:35.916 [SPEAKER_00]: My kids wanted to hear it in the back of the car. 16:36.417 --> 16:40.283 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize that refrain doesn't come into the end of the song. 16:40.303 --> 16:42.908 [SPEAKER_00]: It's three minutes before the refrain that we all know. 16:43.429 --> 16:44.410 [SPEAKER_00]: And you didn't think of that. 16:45.071 --> 16:45.332 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 16:46.314 --> 16:47.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's who my lead. 16:48.076 --> 16:48.417 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:49.325 --> 16:52.430 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I told my wife that and she didn't believe me. 16:52.450 --> 16:55.075 [SPEAKER_00]: I had to play it for and say, look at it. 16:55.095 --> 16:56.458 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell her three minutes in. 16:57.079 --> 17:05.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, that is a, so when did things, so you meet Hilary, Dave becomes involved as well. 17:06.054 --> 17:12.666 [SPEAKER_00]: When did you know that you had something there that might be more than the sum of its parts and how did the project sort of take off? 17:13.270 --> 17:33.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, we wrote the first two songs we wrote in that beat on that first record in her still, like, I think some of the best songs have ever been a part of, a song called, can't take my eyes off you, and the other one was, a cash full was the other one, all I'd ever need. 17:33.571 --> 17:43.008 [SPEAKER_01]: and it was just like, wow, there's something here, but it wasn't until we had loved and live here that I remember I called up Hillary and I said, there's, we have something, we have something going. 17:43.609 --> 17:49.740 [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, I've got this crazy idea because in the beginning, I think we were just writing for maybe her project or my project, we didn't know. 17:50.564 --> 17:54.009 [SPEAKER_01]: But after loving life here, there's a sound. 17:54.049 --> 17:58.556 [SPEAKER_01]: I've played this for my friends and people and they're kind of like flipping out. 17:58.616 --> 18:05.086 [SPEAKER_01]: We have something, and that's when we decided to let's just start a little side project and see what happened. 18:06.048 --> 18:10.214 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I think the most beautiful things could happen when you just kind of get out of your own way. 18:10.314 --> 18:11.977 [SPEAKER_01]: And we were just having fun with it. 18:12.037 --> 18:14.040 [SPEAKER_01]: We weren't putting any pressure on it. 18:14.020 --> 18:22.436 [SPEAKER_01]: But early on, the first like view shows, the crowds kept building each, you know, two weeks, we would go play 3rd and Lensley. 18:23.017 --> 18:24.860 [SPEAKER_01]: And we knew we were on the something, you know. 18:25.141 --> 18:26.824 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think timing, everything's timing. 18:27.045 --> 18:29.349 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the town was looking for a new group. 18:30.030 --> 18:33.857 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we had, you know, two lead singers, you know, three part harmony. 18:33.898 --> 18:36.282 [SPEAKER_01]: It just felt fresh at the time. 18:37.105 --> 18:47.256 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so interesting, like using that method of playing it for friends or people that are close to you, because no matter what they say, you can tell if it interests them or not. 18:47.276 --> 18:48.517 [SPEAKER_00]: They can go, yeah, that's good. 18:48.557 --> 19:03.012 [SPEAKER_00]: I like it, but you can hear it in the tone of their voice, but if it really is drawing them in, it's such an effective way of telling, it's really hard to tell with your own work, what is interesting or not sometimes, because you're just creating so much of it, you can barely tell. 19:03.312 --> 19:03.953 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 19:03.993 --> 19:16.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with this project, I knew I loved it and it felt great, but it wasn't until I played, like, you know, can't lose you from my wife, from my friends or her run. 19:16.632 --> 19:25.084 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was just like, I don't know what this is where this is going, but something feels really cool about this and I played those songs and people were like, 19:25.064 --> 19:35.199 [SPEAKER_01]: This is just cool or like it doesn't sound like something lady A could do, but like you should do this and then it just started giving me the confidence and I felt like I had a direction. 19:35.700 --> 19:45.334 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean one of my favorite stories that tell us need you now was just this little acoustic work tape we had that we recorded on our computer and it didn't sound good. 19:45.374 --> 19:47.477 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have all the parts worked out. 19:47.457 --> 19:55.906 [SPEAKER_01]: and it wasn't until I played it for a couple of people and there was two girls in the A&R department in a couple and they were like, that's badass. 19:56.307 --> 19:57.828 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, but that's badass. 19:57.908 --> 19:59.130 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember kind of going, really? 19:59.630 --> 20:00.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Huh. 20:00.331 --> 20:00.852 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 20:00.872 --> 20:01.753 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll give it a shot. 20:02.413 --> 20:04.516 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so you just don't know. 20:04.596 --> 20:08.880 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the people will tell you, but obviously there's a lot of things to go with it too. 20:08.900 --> 20:10.562 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, things got to be marketed right. 20:10.702 --> 20:11.203 [SPEAKER_01]: And 20:11.183 --> 20:12.245 [SPEAKER_01]: and put out there. 20:12.326 --> 20:15.814 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe that usually great songs find their way. 20:15.874 --> 20:18.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes, I think obviously there are examples where sometimes they don't. 20:19.061 --> 20:26.779 [SPEAKER_01]: But when all those recipes are together and they hit people, the world will tell you if it's greater or not. 20:27.063 --> 20:27.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. 20:28.045 --> 20:28.345 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah. 20:28.385 --> 20:29.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they'll certainly find the way. 20:29.887 --> 20:34.735 [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing that doesn't happen is bad songs ever make it, you know, some of the songs get lost in the mix. 20:34.775 --> 20:41.265 [SPEAKER_00]: But audiences are pretty, they're pretty discriminating on what they'll uphote and what they want. 20:41.545 --> 20:45.411 [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be the greatest piece of lyrical art, too. 20:45.452 --> 20:55.467 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's something where like, I just feel like people love to just hate on songs that just feel good and it's like, we need that in the world, too. 20:55.970 --> 21:21.555 [SPEAKER_01]: you know every every song doesn't need to be godly knows you know I mean sometimes you need a you know girls just want to have fun you know whenever I was watching the sandlot the other night with my kids I hadn't heard this song to Kila in ten years yeah just you know the world needs a couple to Kila's like that it's the perfect tram that's there it's just you know it knocks it out of the park 21:21.535 --> 21:27.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is a, this record that you have coming out, we're recording this now, it's going to come out Friday. 21:27.142 --> 21:30.086 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not your first solo endeavor. 21:30.146 --> 21:37.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Plenty of people who had seen as much success as they did with a band like Lady A, wouldn't find it, you know, necessary or even interesting to do. 21:37.335 --> 21:44.725 [SPEAKER_00]: A solo career, this has always been a part of your musical endeavor. 21:44.705 --> 21:50.285 [SPEAKER_00]: How does it differ from the work that you do with LADA on a very granular creative level? 21:50.687 --> 21:55.103 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you work differently on this solo stuff than you do when it's a LADA project? 21:55.589 --> 22:00.876 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I think first off, it's a little more free in the way that I don't have to compromise on the thing. 22:00.936 --> 22:02.118 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a good thing. 22:02.138 --> 22:05.082 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, with compromise, honestly, too, in the band. 22:05.102 --> 22:07.165 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like we always agree on where we're going to go. 22:07.205 --> 22:16.197 [SPEAKER_01]: But like the thing, the main reason I felt like this needed to be so was one, sonically, I really wanted to chase down an 80s feel. 22:16.717 --> 22:28.010 [SPEAKER_01]: And secondly, I really wanted to kind of share this story of gratitude and forgiveness and forgive myself that I've been through in this past three years through my sobriety journey. 22:28.090 --> 22:36.480 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a lot of, of hitting on that point and I can't go into the room and say, hey, Dave, hey, Hilary, I'd love to write a song all about my experience. 22:37.281 --> 22:38.843 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to sound at eighties. 22:39.565 --> 22:40.106 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you in? 22:40.166 --> 22:47.222 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so to me, it was just, it just showed itself as needing to be from a singular perspective as well. 22:47.483 --> 22:52.073 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just fun to create a different lane, you know, in a perfect world at that. 22:52.424 --> 23:03.942 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't expect a thing to be to the success of Lady A, but if I can create a fun little lane that when I'm off the road with Lady A, I can, it just keeps me artistic and creative. 23:04.102 --> 23:06.045 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I need it so bad. 23:06.085 --> 23:17.082 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we have such good balance with the band between families and stuff that sometimes, I feel like I'm probably not making as much music as I wish I could, and this kind of helps me 23:17.062 --> 23:23.089 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, scratch that it's show to speak where I'm able to kind of create music when I want to on the side. 23:23.423 --> 23:52.468 [SPEAKER_01]: But really, the main thing is I just felt like I needed to timestamp this point in my life with some music and I also feel like creatively I needed to step out of the box because I've been doing this for 20 years now almost and you know there's just times you're just like I wish I could paint outside the lines a little bit and there's certain there are certain lines you have to kind of stay within musically in the genre of country and I feel like I'm able to really 23:52.972 --> 23:57.126 [SPEAKER_01]: unapologetically, just go for whatever feels right, you know, on my own. 23:57.511 --> 24:26.404 [SPEAKER_00]: It reminds me of when a basketball player has been very successful on a certain team but then they get traded to another one that plays stylistically different and it's like, man, we want a bunch of championships with a big in the lane but it's really fun to cut to the basket now that we're doing like pace and space and you see them in press conferences afterwards and they're also happy afterwards and it has nothing to do with the team that you played on before it saw a lot of success and it's awesome, but it's fun to play in different styles. 24:26.384 --> 24:30.349 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, art to, you know, without boundaries is kind of what it's all about. 24:30.750 --> 24:32.192 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's what it should be about more. 24:32.252 --> 24:41.184 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, I think all those, those boundaries are getting broken down with every, you know, so often just, you know, we grew up in a, we're growing up in a playlist generation. 24:41.224 --> 24:43.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Every, everybody loves everything, listens to everything. 24:43.487 --> 24:49.455 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're seeing that in a lot of people outside, you know, in popular coming into the country world. 24:49.435 --> 25:03.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And so for me, it's always been such a strong love of mine, this style of music, the 80s in particular, and I just, I wanted to make sure I kind of gave a nod to it, but wasn't it? 25:04.133 --> 25:06.737 [SPEAKER_01]: play in some kind of character, so to speak. 25:06.837 --> 25:09.522 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, where it is authentically who I am. 25:09.542 --> 25:11.665 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, vocally I'm still in the same. 25:12.046 --> 25:13.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Still sounds like the same guy. 25:13.589 --> 25:28.353 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I might be saying a little higher, or stacking some vocals on top of myself, but it just feels like my voice likes to live in this world and I've always kind of loved that and known that and wanted to really be able to go for it. 25:28.373 --> 25:30.276 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the sound of it isn't. 25:30.256 --> 25:40.105 [SPEAKER_01]: all that much different than even when we didn't need you now, you know, which I will always unapologetically stay at that as they pop song through and through that as they pop song. 25:40.966 --> 25:46.091 [SPEAKER_00]: It's there is something happening right now with the sound of the 80s with what's happening now. 25:46.111 --> 25:50.174 [SPEAKER_00]: Yesterday I interviewed Dave Stewart from the Eurith mix, so I kind of... 25:50.194 --> 25:51.195 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a buddy of mine. 25:51.796 --> 25:53.177 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh really, okay, there you go. 25:53.237 --> 25:55.940 [SPEAKER_01]: We hang out down in the Bahamas together. 25:56.080 --> 25:56.800 [SPEAKER_01]: We've written some. 25:56.840 --> 25:58.542 [SPEAKER_01]: He is he is amazing dude. 25:58.657 --> 26:10.120 [SPEAKER_00]: He seems like such a champion, but I was revisiting their catalog and I told him this on the interview yesterday, like it blew my mind how modern it all sounded. 26:10.140 --> 26:19.698 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you just heard the start of Sweet Dreams come in now before the lyrics, I mean, you could tell me that that was the start of a post Malone song, or something like that, it was released last week. 26:19.738 --> 26:20.580 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a trap. 26:21.168 --> 26:22.770 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything comes back around. 26:22.870 --> 26:26.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it always has, you know, it's just fun to see it. 26:26.894 --> 26:33.100 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even our genre, you're seeing a lot of the traditional country come back around and in the pop world, you're seeing all this synth. 26:33.781 --> 26:35.022 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, getting played a lot more. 26:36.684 --> 26:41.549 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is funny, because I was like, I've been working with this record for a couple of years down, I was like, everybody's putting synth. 26:41.609 --> 26:44.071 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm not gonna look so fresh anymore. 26:44.852 --> 26:45.833 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really did though. 26:45.873 --> 26:49.757 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the difference is a lot of stuff going on is really poppy. 26:49.737 --> 27:05.738 [SPEAKER_01]: synth and heavy you know mine I definitely wanted to make sure it sounded like it could have come out in the 80s you know but it obviously has some modern tricks to it but there's a lot of really truly trying to timestamp that time I mean you haven't had 27:05.718 --> 27:20.017 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, my buddy Dan Huff didn't even produce any of these tracks, but I sent him some stuff and he was like, you got to let me play guitar on some of these and you know, Dan Huff was the guy that played the solos on probably half of every 80s power ball that you've ever heard. 27:20.638 --> 27:26.365 [SPEAKER_01]: So we got that actual tone, you know, and the guy that, you know, was there. 27:26.986 --> 27:32.113 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I did feel like there was a hint of authenticity to this project, you know, throughout the whole thing. 27:32.566 --> 27:56.717 [SPEAKER_00]: that reminds me of I heard when Dan our back moved to Nashville he was asked around he was like I went guys around here who play like these older session players and someone told him like all those older session players are still here you can just get those guys there you got him just go get him yeah that's uh who were some of the people that you tapped on the technical land and even on the creative end to bring that vision you had through for this project 27:57.136 --> 27:58.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it came out naturally. 27:58.517 --> 28:02.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this wasn't like this idea I had and then went into the room. 28:02.482 --> 28:04.003 [SPEAKER_01]: It came from the rooms. 28:04.444 --> 28:13.013 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've written this song with Stan MLS who's an amazing writer producer and we wrote a song called Run and I was like that. 28:13.513 --> 28:15.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever this is, feels really cool. 28:15.576 --> 28:16.977 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's gonna happen with it. 28:17.017 --> 28:26.367 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the next week I go in with Lindsey Rimes and I had Josh Kier and there who I wrote Neige Now with in Michael Whitworth and I was like, 28:26.768 --> 28:34.681 [SPEAKER_01]: and I'll play them run, and so all the sudden the lens it goes over to the synth and starts playing those chords that end up being can't lose you. 28:35.362 --> 28:41.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And so then I was like, okay, not only are these the two producers that get where I want to go, 28:41.973 --> 28:45.257 [SPEAKER_01]: But like this is a lot, like this is, this is the thing. 28:45.417 --> 28:51.624 [SPEAKER_01]: And so from there, it was like I just kept getting the room with those same guys, those same two producers, same L.S. 28:51.804 --> 28:52.665 [SPEAKER_01]: and Lindsey Rhymes. 28:52.846 --> 28:56.610 [SPEAKER_01]: And we started just slowly developing a project. 28:56.750 --> 29:01.015 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think after about probably six songs, I was like, all right, this is it. 29:01.075 --> 29:02.417 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the direction, you know? 29:02.477 --> 29:03.458 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 29:03.438 --> 29:14.549 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it just kind of showed itself and you know, and there was conversations within that whole process of like, okay, well, if I want to put it out in the country, I'm going to have to put some steel guitar on this and I'll Sure sure. 29:14.569 --> 29:19.494 [SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like I'd be bastardizing the song, you know, and I was like, it doesn't need that. 29:19.554 --> 29:20.395 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't want that. 29:20.495 --> 29:25.259 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was able to just say, you know what, I'm a solo artist. 29:25.840 --> 29:26.521 [SPEAKER_01]: I can do this. 29:26.561 --> 29:27.722 [SPEAKER_01]: The people think I'm crazy. 29:27.842 --> 29:28.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Screw it. 29:28.402 --> 29:30.044 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was able to just, you know, go for it. 29:30.064 --> 29:31.065 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like, 29:31.737 --> 29:41.352 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think that was probably the best decision I could have made is just to make sure that I was really fully committing to making an 80s record, you know? 29:42.333 --> 29:49.264 [SPEAKER_00]: All the artists that are North stars for all of us, the one thing that they have in common is they always took the audience to a place. 29:49.704 --> 30:00.681 [SPEAKER_00]: The audience doesn't necessarily know what they want, but if you show them something that's beautiful and compelling, audiences are smart and they will, they've shown time 30:01.049 --> 30:02.111 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure. 30:02.151 --> 30:05.999 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that was, you know, I mean, that's good to set it better myself. 30:06.079 --> 30:20.449 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, and I think that's what's so hard about maybe even the music business right now is it's such a quickly-consumed thing that if it didn't grab you really quick, it's like how would the Bob Dylan's of the world have made it in today's world? 30:20.489 --> 30:21.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Even like, 30:21.383 --> 30:24.026 [SPEAKER_01]: Bruce Rinseen, I mean, you have to kind of like listen to it. 30:24.506 --> 30:29.871 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like their voice is just jump out the radio, but once you listen to it, you're like, I can't get enough of it. 30:30.372 --> 30:36.658 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I mean, it's not like, minute ear Michael Jackson, like that's one of the best voice of it heard. 30:36.718 --> 30:51.272 [SPEAKER_01]: minute ear, you know, journey, you're like, call the crowd, like it's grabbing you off the bat, but we're, you know, we're at those, other types of kind of more interesting vocals, vocalists too come out without having to like soak it in 30:51.775 --> 31:08.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for me, you know, there was a lot of self discovery too of just like I've never gone after a project with a theme in mind and fully committed to a sound from top to bottom. 31:09.241 --> 31:25.731 [SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, I don't know if people are I didn't know if people were going to get it or dig it, but like sometimes you almost just got to go for it and take them on the journey and show them maybe what they're missing maybe you're missing a little kind of throw back sound you know in your life. 31:25.711 --> 31:47.432 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the job for sure and so you mentioned earlier you touched on that like one of the lyrical one of the thematic terms on this record is your sobriety on on a technical level working you know sober now like how has that changed your creative process what does it feel like now to to create when substances aren't involved? 31:48.188 --> 32:08.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think just a lot more present and a lot more effective, you know, I mean, I do think, you know, listen, a couple drinks will definitely loosen you up and you know, can help, but for me, it was never a couple drinks at some point, you know, I'd be in the recording session and I'd be really great for a few hours, then towards the end, you're not getting anything great, especially vocally out of me. 32:08.812 --> 32:13.858 [SPEAKER_01]: But to me, also just more than anything, it just gave me a lyrical 32:14.345 --> 32:20.912 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so much lyrical landscape to pull from, you know, a lot of the gratitude. 32:21.348 --> 32:49.431 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of the, you know, forgiveness I've been given and a lot of just, I don't know, this kind of new fresh lease on life, you know, and I just look at the world so much differently now, you know, I've, I've, I've think I've shed a lot of fear that I was holding on to for a long time, especially fear of like what people want to think, artistically from me, and now I'm just, I kind of been in this long enough, and I think he would a lot through this journey of like, dude, 32:49.799 --> 32:53.583 [SPEAKER_01]: just make music that moves you and that people respond. 32:53.603 --> 33:06.118 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's kind of showing itself slowly, but surely just even seeing the response for this project, it's like, you know, when you make some bolder decisions in your life, you know, great things can happen, if it's for the right reasons. 33:06.138 --> 33:09.863 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this was completely made from the right head space. 33:10.864 --> 33:17.832 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know, it's just taught me to just let go, just create the art and then let go and see where it goes. 33:18.217 --> 33:22.883 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you used a word there that I haven't heard too much with when people are describing a journey like that. 33:23.243 --> 33:27.848 [SPEAKER_00]: When usually when people are describing a sobriety journey, you'll hear like, you know, regret making a man's in this. 33:28.149 --> 33:30.031 [SPEAKER_00]: But you used a word gratitude right there. 33:30.051 --> 33:31.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you kind of dig in on that? 33:31.773 --> 33:33.635 [SPEAKER_00]: What sort of gratitude do you feel? 33:34.396 --> 33:39.202 [SPEAKER_01]: And why the people in my life that didn't give up on me, I mean, I think that's where the gratitude comes in. 33:39.322 --> 33:45.169 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you actually start like, I think sometimes in life you have to hit some sort of bottom. 33:45.925 --> 33:50.633 [SPEAKER_01]: to like take you to the next stage of your life and where you need to go. 33:50.673 --> 33:56.824 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they call it kind of the gift, the gift of desperation, you know, a lot of the rooms I get into. 33:56.924 --> 34:04.817 [SPEAKER_01]: And there is a gift because it's like, it's almost like you've been hit over the head and it's like, come on man, like this world has much more to offer. 34:04.877 --> 34:08.203 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think I would have gotten there without, 34:09.280 --> 34:12.283 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, having become an alcoholic and hit this point. 34:12.323 --> 34:15.046 [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of got me closer my spirituality and all these things. 34:15.086 --> 34:20.773 [SPEAKER_01]: So in a way, you know, it was kind of a gift that I had gotten to that point. 34:20.793 --> 34:29.362 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that sounds backwards, but you know, I think that's part of the life is like sometimes your biggest lessons are learned in failure, you know. 34:29.683 --> 34:38.933 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a little bit of that kind of same, I think, lesson and theme of what I've been through the past three years. 34:39.436 --> 35:09.291 [SPEAKER_00]: it's got to be particularly a difficult lesson to learn as a performer because as a performer there is this sort of psychological thing of like I'm here right now in this room and I'm worth something to you because I'm entertaining I'm worth something to you because I'm giving you these things well when you hit the sort of bottom that you're talking about the people in your life you're just asking them you got to love me because I'm me I'm not at this moment I got nothing to offer you and maybe I'm doing as dragging you down right now so it had to be 35:09.878 --> 35:20.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, luckily I would never hit such a bottom that it was, you know, detrimental and I think that was kind of the beauty too is like being able to kind of catch it before it got too out of hand. 35:20.841 --> 35:22.805 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was pretty close to losing a lot of things. 35:23.006 --> 35:27.395 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my marriage was rocky, the bands, relationship was rocky and so I don't know. 35:27.415 --> 35:29.760 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a lot of it's hard not to feel. 35:29.740 --> 35:40.774 [SPEAKER_01]: being on the other side of it now, gratitude that, you know, that, that, that we got through all this, you know, together because it really did take a lot of support from people and forgiveness and patience. 35:41.555 --> 35:43.738 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do, I feel grateful. 35:43.798 --> 35:48.744 [SPEAKER_01]: And the record, I wanted the record to have this positive feel from top to bottom. 35:48.785 --> 35:59.258 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a couple, you know, things we delve into some struggles in there, but really it's for the most part just a really positive celebration of life and love and all those things. 36:00.267 --> 36:07.784 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I regret to inform you that your break from signing CDs and vinyl has now come to an end and you're going to have to get back into it. 36:07.804 --> 36:09.427 [SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate your time. 36:09.888 --> 36:11.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations on the new record. 36:11.392 --> 36:13.356 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to remind you of these things all done. 36:13.376 --> 36:13.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 36:13.496 --> 36:15.080 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go. 36:15.100 --> 36:15.621 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, man. 36:15.641 --> 36:18.047 [SPEAKER_00]: We wish you all the best with the new record and the rollout. 36:18.067 --> 36:18.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 36:18.989 --> 36:19.350 [SPEAKER_01]: Go. 36:19.370 --> 36:20.031 [SPEAKER_01]: Appreciate it, buddy. 36:36.278 --> 36:38.142 [SPEAKER_00]: This week's show was brought to you by Banzergul. 36:38.543 --> 36:45.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Built by musicians and four musicians, Banzergul is an all in one platform to build a beautiful website for your music. 36:46.119 --> 36:54.658 [SPEAKER_00]: Use promo code TWS, the initials of our podcast, TWS, to get 15% off the first year of any new subscription. 36:54.638 --> 37:01.928 [SPEAKER_00]: Charles Kelly's latest album is entitled Songs for a New Moon, available everywhere music is sold or streamed. 37:01.948 --> 37:12.982 [SPEAKER_00]: If before we meet again, you sit down to write, please remember, an expensive drug habit is not a song, a compelling Instagram account is not a song and most importantly reverb is not a song. 37:13.383 --> 37:17.929 [SPEAKER_00]: So let all that take care of itself and for you just keep your eye on the song.