[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a very different episode this week because this is our first patron chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have some of our VIP patrons here with me today.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am excited to get to know more about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their stories, how they discovered J.R.R.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tolkien and his legendarium and his novels or his movies or the movies about his novels, you know how all that stuff works.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got two guests with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... this week and by the way this is a brand new feature so if you are on the patreon and you are a v ip patron then this is something you have access to and we'll be meeting on sunday nights the last sunday of every month at eight p.m. eastern time uh... as of right now so that is so if you're listening to the future maybe that changes for schedule needs but right now that's when when we'll be meeting and you're welcome to join us next month if you're already a VIP patron or you can go to patreon dot com slash
[SPEAKER_01]: L-O-T-R-Lorecast, and you can sign up and join us next month, but with me this week, we have Asyl Razzle and Matt, welcome to the show fellas, it's so nice to have you here, and to actually get to talk to you and meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to call you out individually, so we all don't talk on top of each other, but Asyl Razzle was the first to jump in the chat asyl, and I just call you Asyl, does that work?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, that's good enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: No problem here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad to have you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you just share a little bit about yourself for everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, hello, my name's uh, as a result, I've been a long time Lord the Ringspan.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think starting originally with the uh, the movies I guess as I guess most of us did.
[SPEAKER_02]: What it's so insured through this, what it's the file of Galatriel, what's this random city that they call out to in the hate days and want to know a little bit more about the lore and through that I guess I played some of the games and that again with the Battle of the Middle Earth series is the one that I guess mainly sort of expanded my knowledge of the lore, especially the rise of the witch king.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very cool stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those games are great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was good.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: The amount of sort of extra things that aren't necessarily in the books that they cover there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then from there, I, for some reason, just jumped straight in the deep and attempted to read the silver alien on the third time, it stuck and couldn't put the book down from then I went on to the eventually the Lord of the Rings trilogy for the first time and then the Hobbit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I sort of did it in a weird backwards reading way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess doing it that way, when I read the Lord of the Rings for the first time, I was
[SPEAKER_02]: surprise that how many coalbacks and references they were to the film are really in within the book that I just realized, no, not many people would really be understanding how this means that the significance of this line here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was sort of filled a bit more if you can more complete pitch show as I was going throughout it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then through wanting more of that, it's scratched of,
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... deep lore i didn't eventually came across as but cost very first up but cost oh well first ever yet yeah that's great that's a that's a fun story a man also welcome to the show do you have a similar similar uh... quick little like a give us the coup that the you know the like as a razzled it the quick little version of the journey then we'll dig into it a little bit more detail but what was who are you and then how did you discover talking
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was out shopping one day with my brother and West Emmant and Mollon Edmonton Alberta, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we, I had like 10, we had.
[SPEAKER_03]: ridiculous amount of money for the age we were to go buy some stuff and I had about 10 bucks left so I heard heard about this book called Lord of the Rings so I picked it up and struggled a little with the first because I was I think great 7 at that point yeah so I struggled with the first 100 pages but then it hooked and I I plowed through the rest and I I
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I found the Silmarillion and just devoured that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've read it through two or three times now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I honestly consider it my favorite book, Barnon.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just love the poetry of it and the quality of the language.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you ever weird, I know, but if you ever read the chapter,
[SPEAKER_03]: the soundtrack from 1492 conquest of paradise by Von Gell in Van Gellies, it fits so perfectly and it's almost brings a person to tears.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, it's just been a lifelong journey for me since I was, yeah, I've all loved 12, 13 years old.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've read the books numerous times and then I got into podcasts through COVID lockdowns and so I found numerous different ones during that time and this was one of them and I've stayed with I think you were on episode
[SPEAKER_03]: five when I found you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have lived this one since while back there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've been with since the really early days and became a Patron subscriber, maybe year in or so and caught up quickly with the bonus episodes but yeah, I loved it to pieces so much so that I work.
[SPEAKER_03]: I were a couple of jobs, but one of them is a director at a
[SPEAKER_03]: we go by.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't use a real names.
[SPEAKER_03]: We use names of people from literature or movies that are meaningful.
[SPEAKER_03]: And my, my cap name is Frodo.
[SPEAKER_03]: So nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, what great stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad that you guys took the time to join me today.
[SPEAKER_01]: And um,
[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you, thank you for being a part of this and supporting the show and all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is part of what's so fun for me when I get to do these patron chats because I do these on some of my other shows, but it's brand new for this show and getting to know other people's perspectives and how they're incorporating, how...
[SPEAKER_01]: how these stories are so meaningful to us because they really do, there is something about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's something that changes your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm like you, Matt, like I discovered, I was in fifth grade when I picked up the Hobbit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was probably about seventh grade when I picked up the Lord of the Rings for the first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember, so you went to the bookstore.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to the library and the fellowship of the ring was unavailable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to pick up, and I just picked up the two towers, not knowing anything, and being a kid, and not knowing, like, yeah, if you start on the second book in the series, it's not, and things are just going to make sense to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to miss out a whole lot of context, and I got about a chapter two in and then took it back, and I was like, I don't understand anything about why these guys are just running for so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually got back to the first book and then everything stuck, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to this point where I was like, wow, this is difficult, it's a harder book to read than the Hobbit is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it stuck with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a result, how old were you when you discovered everything?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, being a, coming up to the myth that he's in a few years, I'm probably,
[SPEAKER_02]: What have been about I know grade two or three I think when the films were coming out so quite young at the time actually you saw the films when you were like in second or third grade.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, so it was a definitely a young age, but I guess has always been my interest because I guess the the video games and never run at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone liked a lot of the rings and everyone thought of the Venezia, the I guess the memories that they were and now and you could sort of.
[SPEAKER_02]: not really go any way with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, people talking about it when I think it was Christmas time when they were releasing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the next one would be coming in and everyone would be waiting to see what that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, three years in a row, I believe, was the release schedule.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was in college at the time, and I would go home for Christmas every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I've talked about this on the show before the reason why I was even interested in these at all was because my dad was into them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Suggested, I read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I read them and so I would go home in my dad and my brother and whoever else was home for the holidays We would all go to the movies together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was that was such an amazing experience at that age to be able to experience that with the people in my life
[SPEAKER_01]: That is really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is some really really cool stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about, let's talk about your favorites.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you guys both talked a little bit about some of your favorites.
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, you mentioned the summer really in bar none, you said, is your favorite book.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a result, do you have a favorite book or do you have a, actually, here, let's start here.
[SPEAKER_01]: being that you started with the movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you prefer the movie still?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that your defining thing and the books are still ancillary to the movies?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or are you more like we are?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we started with the books and don't be afraid of saying one way or the other a lot of people will say well obviously the book should come first because they were the inspiration for the movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I totally get
[SPEAKER_01]: the perspective of like the movie's field definitive to me because they're what I experienced first and the books felt like delving deeper.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the perspective can shift, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're right there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's um it'd be both.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's I was surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I did eventually read the books how much the movies did get accurate how many
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess hints were there even with chapter names and scene titles and songs like a like a shortcut to mushrooms and a knife in the dark and all these are just little hints of the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess I have any and all content so I enjoy them books for what they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy the films for what they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if I did have to pick a favorite it would probably would be the
[SPEAKER_02]: origins of everything and the detail that we get and seeing I guess how it all began and then the world before the fall so to speak but yeah I think that yeah anything and all I'm even up until even rings of power I'm glad that we are getting that and I think it looks beautiful and sure there's the odd floor in there here and there but it's not enough to ruin the show for me and I can't wait for third season coming out this year I believe but
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say, some really, my favorite overall books in the movies, I can view as separate pieces of media.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not too sure of certain things, what to fit in the films, if you talk them directly from the books.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, by the way, so you probably had to cut out, so I'm just to, you know, you can't, the people already complain about the amount of endings.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know for the scarring of the shy would have been necessarily the best thing to put in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's to what I guess with the mirror scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the filmmakers haven't always made the best correct decisions, but I feel like they made more right decisions than wrong in translating from the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is one of the, one of the correct decisions to make.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw a post recently where people were debating like the theatrical version or the extended version, which one's better.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things I think had gotten as always the extent it did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that's my thought, too, is that the, my natural assumption is the extended version is clearly better because it gives us more stuff and a lot of that extended stuff is very accurate to the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can see why people could perceive that as being no it actually slows down the pace of the films and as a film it is better as a theatrical release.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can see that perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that this is another one of the, and you mentioned the Razer Power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know how you would do a story about the second age of the world without needing to invent extra stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it is so sparsely explained in Tolkien's writings, you would have to add extra material to make it work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you can debate the accuracy of that extra material and how much it actually correlates with, you know, correctly with the lore that we do have.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of the people who complain about those things actually have bad complaints because they'll make complaints that they don't realize
[SPEAKER_01]: are explained in the lore and because they aren't like first on everything and honestly none of us are none of us are Christopher Tolkien you know like so for any of us to put a hat on and say well I know everything and I'm gonna we don't you know but I think that's just part of it So here let's dig into the silver really in a little bit because you guys with both stated this is your favorite thing Matt I'm gonna jump back to you
[SPEAKER_01]: What about the Sumerillion?
[SPEAKER_01]: What parts of it resonate with you the most?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it the, I don't know, what the best way to call the stories like Baron and Luthian or Turen's story?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's almost like those are the epic romances, not romance in the like romantic, you know, kissy, huggy kind of sense, but romance in the like romance novel like,
[SPEAKER_01]: old timey sense of like epic story.
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got like the beginning with like the origins of the world that feels very old testament-ish.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got even the stuff towards the end where you start to see other pieces of the lore kind of get fleshed out that connect more to the novels.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about all that, Matt?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it depends on kind of when I
[SPEAKER_03]: I encountered it with the first time I read it, what I loved was just like the grandeur of it in the heroic tales and I loved Baron and Lucien and really loved the character of Finnrod and grieved every time one of these characters died because I never read a book like that where
[SPEAKER_03]: it became a parent part way through that the good guys are not going to win this battle like there's not even possible for them to win it and I never read anything I got to read David Eddings the Belgaried series and it was very similar type of fantasy where good guys were in tough but then
[SPEAKER_03]: in the end they were they managed to survive and get through it and it was apparent this one was going to be very different and I loved the heroic nature of it but I struggled as a kid a little bit with the idea of sometimes a good guy is losing and and a lot of times still we're really like a lot of even not like yes the greater loss of like hey we need to
[SPEAKER_01]: there's loss.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even their wins are just like there's a lot of loss in the win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It happens a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It does.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as a kid, I didn't necessarily resonate with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to love the grandeur of the story and the heroics of it and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I struggle with that piece.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then when I came back and read it as an adult,
[SPEAKER_03]: That was actually the peace I love the most because it felt truest to life and the reality that life itself isn't something in that.
[SPEAKER_03]: where the good A1, I hope that's the case, but it's struggle and it's lost and sometimes yeah, sometimes there isn't always the victory for the good as much as we wish it otherwise.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just felt real and it felt like you could really resonate with the themes of
[SPEAKER_03]: of struggle and loss and like Turing's whole arc, which I didn't really get as a kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved as an adult simply because of its tragic nature and the fact that he's not a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was just cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: He tried so hard to do what was right, so often, and because of his nature, whether it was his anger, or his ratcheness at times, it would often go the wrong way for him, and he never meant for it to ever happen that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: He tried to always in the end, do what was right for the, whether it was for, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: Doria Thorin, Naga Thorin, or wherever it was, but it always went sideways on him and he just felt so tragic and so real that this when I read it as an adult I've just really really connected with it and then also the themes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, my background, well, my main job is that I'm a Lutheran pastor and so so much of the theology that he works into his work is just stuff I've actually used in the sermons because it's so powerful that especially those earlier themes of the music of creation, it's just so gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've often said that
[SPEAKER_03]: CS Lewis is more open and apparent the great Christian apologist of the 20th century and yet I actually much prefer the kind of theology that poking in a very subtle way lays out because I feel Lewis sometimes is a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: conservative a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Status quo, comparatively speaking, and I thought the tokens is just so breathtakingly beautiful in comparison.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's an interesting point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost like, and maybe maybe I'm in character because I haven't read Lewis in a long time, but Lewis's stuff always came across, especially from his theological, the theological bent of some of his works.
[SPEAKER_01]: as a, both more apologetic, like you said, but much, much more rational where as Tolkien came, always comes across as the person who understands the core emotion in, in a deeper sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that sense of, like, where you talk about, let's go to tragedy and, you know, things turning sideways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even even when you have good intentions, how things just don't always work out and the
[SPEAKER_01]: and yet how there's beauty in that, you know, like Tolkien, something about that as a young uncovering that and understanding that there's beauty in sadness and suffering and that there's without suffering, without sadness, where is grace, where is mercy, like those things don't exist
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if you have any other thoughts on that, you wouldn't expand on, but I always found that very engaging in a way that I never found other places.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I would absolutely resonate with that, just that notion, yeah, of that beauty in the struggle because that the third theme that gets introduced when Melcore brings in the discordant theme and seems to turn a rye, Louis Vuittres, a great plan for creation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet it's that beauty in the midst of discord, that was the actual,
[SPEAKER_03]: true purpose of creation, like in the midst of struggle and the midst of hurt, there's still, well, it's still something good, still something beautiful in the midst of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it almost feels like Sam's little speech at the end of the second movie, or he talks about why do we struggle because there's still something we're struggling for.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's still the beauty, there's still good,
[SPEAKER_03]: And but it doesn't exist unless unfortunately there's also the sacrifices like they come to know at the end of the books with Roto having to leave Yeah, because he's lost everything basically right right the paint.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and it is a solution It is a a form of struggling with the problem of evil which if we're going theological here
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, how can an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful God to create a creation where there's so much suffering and struggle and all of the, what feels like evil in the world?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, poking seems to answer that for his universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this idea that, like you said, uh, Louis Vuittar,
[SPEAKER_01]: already knows that that's the way things are going to play out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Melcore moves against him, he turns it into something even greater and more beautiful and more grand because of that struggle and the response to the struggle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is like that is foundational and yet so
[SPEAKER_01]: So clearly explained through the use of musical analogy, you know, like that it's so cool because he had such a clear understanding of all these things and was able to really encapsulate them so well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's for me why the silver and the silver really and will always kind of be that number one book.
[SPEAKER_03]: because it's just so deep.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so much going on under the surface and then it gets translated and told the other books and all of the Tolkien's works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that spirit proliferates all the rest of the things that he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: You find, oh yeah, you feel like there is consistency across the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Heck, even in the Hobbit, which is probably the most, you know, just kind of happy go lucky of the stories, Bilba returns home and things are different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, he returns home to struggle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things, yeah, you know, he's not just like, hey, now I'm rich and I had a great adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, now your neighbors are going to treat you differently from now on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, even I just read the Smith of Woughton major.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I said that right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And similar themes there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, this nature of encountering fairy.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's not just like, you go in and have a great adventure in Narnia and then that's it is the change.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's real beauty, but real loss because he can't stay and he has to come back and he has to and it's not translatable and it's something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that stays with him, but there's a sense of loss and tragedy, even there, even though it's left him change and it's beautiful and he probably would never have chosen life without it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any any and it's such a good analogy, even for just living your life and growing up and getting older, you get older, you become wise or you become more capable, but at the same time you things change and you suffer loss.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're no longer the person you used to be and there's
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and yeah, we can talk about this forever, but I need to bring asle razzle back and we've been going on about this stuff in the summer really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, do you have a similar perspective or are there other parts of the summer really and that really stand out for you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I do have a similar perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are other parts that stand out though.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of it just are for role regarding that book is, as you've been saying, it's, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's why I guess that sometimes I guess come across as a crazy person trying to explain to people why Lord the Rings and these books are so good as the there is a deeper meaning behind them all than not just stories as much as they are fiction.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have lessons I guess that you can learn from them and not necessarily to how to live your life but just how to I guess view life and approach it a different way maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe learn to see the positives in some of the negatives of life and whatnot, especially with the other times that we're going through, but I think one of my, I guess, that aside, there are just pure preference to regards to a favorite section would probably be around any of the, the times of the two trees at the beginning in, in Valon, or just because it's not something that really gets covered much in many areas, and there's a lot of, I guess, big
[SPEAKER_02]: a present right then and there as later on there's the only mentions of them or a pretty much like it's almost the only one really showing up around the time so it's it's good to just have some of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the joys and paradise before having to leave before, um, only and comes along before everything just go sideways I guess and all the
[SPEAKER_02]: The, the, the biz that goes along with the, uh, some really, and yes, and we're a fanor and, and all of the tragedy that then falls everybody from all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it makes me going back to that stuff that we get such small glimpses into what it must have been like for those elves, you know, like arriving in Valenor and then living alongside these god-like beings who are
[SPEAKER_01]: a part of their lives, teaching them, you know, like employing them and showing up and lightly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's the kind of stuff I don't know that will ever, well, any form of putting that in, like visualizing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: in a film or like a TV show is never going to do it all justice because it's and I think talking understood that there's only so much he could actually explain on the paper and leaving it mostly uncovered and mysterious allows our imaginations to fill in the gaps.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is it really like to walk into like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, my names fall out of my head, um, uh, Alley's, uh, forge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, while he's like smithing something amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was that even like?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like we're gonna never really gonna know, but we have a glimpse of it and that's that is fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's talk about some of the later stuff in the summer really and are there other stories at the end like are you are you both somebody who like the tragedy of touring is just so good because it's such a such a medium tragedy that that story really stands out or are you more on the side of like Baron and Lutheran and this idea that like this epic journey that actually works out in the end for the most part is pretty like is is a little bit more appealing.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about both of those Matt?
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you're probably more on the tour inside.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I am, as a kid, I loved the Baron and Lothian epic, and I still really, really do.
[SPEAKER_03]: There isn't a part of that novel, I don't like.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, the Turin story is powerful one, and then when you did the walkthrough of, I had never read the unfinished tales.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you did the walkthrough of tours approach to the on the limb, yeah, that was really cool to kind of flesh it out because we don't get any of that backstory.
[SPEAKER_03]: and the silver aliens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this we had more of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if, oh man, if we had, if we got more of that, it would be amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it gets to certain part and it's like, well, that's all we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I love those.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, like the last reading, and I've been listening to the Andy Circus audio book version of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just like, it's all resonating with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And even to the point where,
[SPEAKER_03]: when we get into the piece around the fall of Newman or that part really disturbed me as a child with the whole like human sacrifice piece and just saying so out of keeping with like the valor of the elves and and what you read in the first stage but again like Turin it was just I really really couldn't not connect it but really
[SPEAKER_03]: appreciated the depth of storytelling there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just how epic that really was, even though it was dark and disturbing, it was still a really engaging narrative.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: Even again, going back to unfinished tales, Eldarian, is that right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, I love that whole story there about, um, he'm going to middle earth to kind of shore up the defenses and, you know, already right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, good reasons for going away.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were selfish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, but he was also, he, like, it's such a, it's not black and white.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's so wonderful about that story is again, kind of like, touring both of everyone's just doing their best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's doing the best and everyone's interpreting the information they have as best they can and sometimes things just don't work out and that how really is that you know like that's that's what it means to be human That's what all of us are doing all the time as we're just doing our best and sometimes we just bumble around into each other and misinterpret things and things go sideways and You know, a marriage doesn't work out or like you know with a rendist or you know
[SPEAKER_01]: or as much as he shores of Middle-earth and tries to do good things than the lineage of kings just continues to decline and make bad decisions after him, you know, like, there's a lot there, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, as well, Razzle, what are your thoughts on this?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you in the Turin, Baron and Luthian?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm more of a Baron of Luthian kind of guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I
[SPEAKER_02]: The larger, I guess, characters from different parts of the story and play with, as Matt was saying, Finn wrote earlier, and then having, I guess, parts of the thing all in there, and then some more scenes with more Goat, and I guess they're dissented to Hell, and sound on actually doing something, even if it is just a fighting one, getting deep and losing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the beginning, I know, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh, man, just the, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sauron showing up in these is always fun too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he doesn't do it too often.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's nice to see someone who has always been as much as I enjoy a lot of the heroes within the journey, I am a fan of some of the villains as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's always a part that draws me to it, I think, and just seeing both sides of the stories and they're reasoning for it even if it isn't the most trust that they believe it to be and seeing how this leads to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess the little aha moments later, such as Baron losing his fist with the summer rule, but then when he turns up to thing all later, he goes, well, actually, I'm still holding it and it's just inside a belly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's burning him in front of the inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a nice little way to sort of connect it all to have that victory in the end, even if there was pain, former, I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: I do feel that the Eagles may make sure of a little often than I'd like, but that being said, I'm willing to just to spend my disbelief and take the story as it comes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll happily enjoy any story along that line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, they do feel like the Deus Ex Machina of his work a little bit, yeah, a little bit, but not enough to ruin the enjoyment, but also, I mean, they are kind of literally a Deus Ex Machina because they were created by manway and like that's kind of their job is to be watching over middle-earth and to swoop in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, when you have the story in the lore behind it, it's nice to know that they're actually is in them being their own sort of race rather than just birds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's nice to to know that it's not as, I guess, a lot of whole driven as what say some people would have with their little fly the ring to mortal or in what not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's expand back to the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's like the most popular novels from the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you guys have
[SPEAKER_01]: favorite characters from those are their different sections or characters that always resonate with you and you're like oh this is This is the best part because there is such variety as as we get especially through the Lord of the Rings You've got like the hobbitish stuff at the beginning you've got the fellowship the fellowship breaks apart Then you've got like Frodo and Sam and golem do and their thing and then you know everything else going on with the
[SPEAKER_01]: you know the um two towers and the conflict in Rohan and then you have everything coming to a head at the end with the return of the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt, where are you with all of that?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's just what are your favorite bits and characters?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my favorite character.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, not just within the context of these books, but honestly one of my favorite literary characters Bartonon is
[SPEAKER_03]: his journey and the fact of what he did.
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, not to always dwell on the tragic side, but it was the knowledge that he's doing something that is ultimately impossible and there was really
[SPEAKER_03]: there's no way he was ever going to actually do it, um, but at some point the ring would choose to break him and it chose when it did maybe to its own detriment because then you have that moment of eucotastrophe which I've actually broken out in a sermon and I can explain it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah everybody should know about eucotastrophies.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean that is a very Christian notion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is usually based on Jesus, like let's just say what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is what that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it feels like a terrible thing, but because of this terrible thing, Salvation, you know, like, right, that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that whole goal of a gallum narrative because of that, like, there's a real purpose why Bilbo saved him.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a purpose why Frodo showed him mercy, even when Sam kind of didn't want to.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then what it led to at the at Mount Doom in fact that it was because of Mercy that they were able to do what ultimately would have been impossible if Mercy hadn't been shown and just the whole resident of the whole resistance that Frodo still manages through all of that journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you know eventually it's going to break them but
[SPEAKER_03]: He manages to be more far more resistant than most.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like even Sam, good-natured Sam can barely hold it for a day, without him attempting to the point where he almost can't give it back to Frodo.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that part of the movies when Sam realizes that Frodo is physically failing and he can't take the ring from him, but he says, I can't carry the ring for you, but I can't carry you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good memory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they're their their relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're pairing.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could of course do an entire episode about all of that, but I'm oh, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Frodo's resilience, Sam's Sam's, and Sam is not giving bad advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very rational advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy,
[SPEAKER_01]: we can't trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to kill us and take the ring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the rational decision here is let's leave him behind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get rid of him because he's going to ruin it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the rational decision wasn't in that case the right decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the merciful decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the right decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of it, like I talked about in a recent episode, Gandalf.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean Gandalf knows from the beginning that it's an impossible task.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows that Frodo's going to have a better chance than anyone else, but nobody could do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he relies on his instincts.
[SPEAKER_01]: He relies on his gut.
[SPEAKER_01]: He relies on his faith that in the end, we all have our parts to play, just like he talks to Frodo in the episode I just did.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, like, Frodo's like, why didn't you kill him?
[SPEAKER_01]: And Gandalf's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: who are you to decide when somebody lives and dies and also I can tell that he still has a plate to part two play in the story for good or ill.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's how the story is supposed to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let it play out.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like it's just genius.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so multifaceted and it's so well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as a result, where are you at with the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings and Characters and moments and things like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: What really stands out to you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I think that is one of the tough questions considering you could have made sure you...
[SPEAKER_01]: separate the books yeah and and you can talk about the film versions i i point out the film versions too i've been going through the books because that's kind of the point of the show but there are definitely moments where i will quote like i'll say in the in the movie this thing happens and um even when that's not identical to the books if it captures the spirit if it's just interpret interpretation of the spirit and what i would feel is a correct way and oftentimes i'm i'm i feel okay with that you know like
[SPEAKER_01]: And even the rings of power at times, I think interoperates the spirit of what is there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, even though people might get upset about like the way it was portrayed on the screen or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like you can't think about a movie moment sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think as as not was saying, um, Frodo is a pretty good one definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: The book version over the film version.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how I feel about sending Sam away when you're right on evil's doorstep, but yeah, that part is a little funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: The book he's a lot more, I guess you can tell he's suffering and he's struggling, but he still got his wits about him a little better and willing to make a bit more informed decisions.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as much as it's probably one of the easier ones, I enjoy a book fairer me quite a bit just because of how
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess unwilling he was to even be tempted by the ring or even put that as an opportunity to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't want to take that risk of sending it to Gondor and what they can lead to.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he just, yes, I just throw it on Sam as much as he can and it's nice just to, to know that sort of that, the people out there who are willing to sort of have the will power to say no and have that self-control and
[SPEAKER_01]: have that there's moments to um yeah i also really like fair mirror in the books and uh i remember watching the films for the first time and we i'm just weighed and like when is book fair mirror kind of come out because this guy's not exactly the same person uh the by the ending he kind of comes around but like well i was like a little bit in the third movie but not so much the same as what he was in the books and right and some of the moments as well from from i
[SPEAKER_02]: overall hour going as a little too good I guess but true to the story reasons that makes sense but I like I guess his his moments of like very shines through not no no particular moment but just where he's willing to sort of step up into the role to be a leader or to to just sort of
[SPEAKER_02]: be what the people need right now and two to lead.
[SPEAKER_01]: He leads from the front.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's leading the front.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's exactly the right kind of leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the one who gets in the front and says, I will do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go over there and do a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And how was you and encourages you to get on that front line with it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a very, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think anybody in any role of leadership could learn amazing things from just that example that would make them better leaders.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's risk involved with that, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I think that risk often is mitigated by the respect of the people who you are leading.
[SPEAKER_01]: and their willingness to then step up when you need help because they know that you would do the same for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a brilliant example.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I enjoy both of those characters as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was a question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my wife and I before we got on the call with you guys to tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about how we can get this call set up and what we might talk about and those kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Two of you joined.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's 33 patrons who could potentially join.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't sure if anybody was going to be able to make it or who would show up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for showing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she was like, well, what if I, what if I called in?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, we're just joking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I'll be like, oh, so you've been a patron on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I started like, quizzing error.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, so what, when did you start reading these books and watching these movies?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she enjoys the movies and things that she hasn't read the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I was like, okay, so who's your favorite character?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, well, say, I'm really like Sam.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like cool cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, what about, uh, what about some of the, the badass ladies of the stories?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, oh, yeah, glad you're real is pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, what about A and she's like, oh, yeah, it went pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, so we started going to that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but the real is pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean they're very cool and you know and joking with my wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like she's she runs a research lab She's you know, she's a leader in her own right and so like she has a lot of respect for you know other badass women get things done You know, so I always thought that was cool too, but yeah for me You know, I think both of you are correct about a lot of this stuff I have I share very similar perspectives on all of those characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
[SPEAKER_01]: In the end, I think that there's something about Sam and his willingness to be so loyal and it's not even his responsibility in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has nothing to do with his spies.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how the window and he just ends up getting dragged into this journey and then he's just loyal from the beginning and he's doing the best he can.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't have the right advice, but
[SPEAKER_01]: In the end, like you said, he carries Frodo up the mountain, you know, like, and then in when they return to the Shire he has such a big role in freeing the Shire and then being mayor of the Shire like multi consecutive times and bringing about this golden age by regret literally regrowing the Shire with all of the
[SPEAKER_01]: all of the knowledge and all of the willpower and the maturing that he did on his journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is such an interesting flip from Frodo who is chronically damaged and has to leave and Sam being empowered.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the first glimpse of that is like the willingness to actually talk to Rosie, you know, and how that leads to
[SPEAKER_01]: you know a foundation for the rest of his life a marriage and a large family and and he grows the shire along with him and I always thought that that arc was also beautiful in it in a very different way but I found that very cool as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, are there any other things that really stand out to you Matt?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's let's jump back over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you hear?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of talking about characters, let's talk about moments in the story or like set pieces, are there certain places like a lot of people are like, all the when they go through Maria, it's so good or the battle of Helms Deep or you know, Eleanor Fields.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, although obviously, I enjoyed his set pieces and moments in the story, Gandalf standing against the bowerog and just such a powerful moment of utter defiance in the face of an enemy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not 100% certain he can actually best.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the end, he can and can't, it costs him his life to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he does so in the same way that everyone else who has ever bested a ball rug does.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to sacrifice themselves to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's the thing is that he, at this point in the story, he knows that everyone who's ever gone toe to toe with a bowerog has had to sacrifice themselves to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that is the knowledge he's, he's wise, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's lived all this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows these stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's going, well, this is, I guess this is my Glorphendo moment, or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like,
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to do what I got to do and he's willing to do it and you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get chills.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, it's so, oh, it's so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a wonderful moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think one that always stood out partly because
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a shadow of what they once were, so I remember reading the board of the rings of the return of the king when I was the first time around and they make the comment that the force that goes to the black gate.
[SPEAKER_03]: is but a shadow of a vanguard of the former glory days and yet they're still willing to go and trying to do what they can with the hope that their Frodo is still alive, still doing his thing and they're trying to buy him whatever time they can by pulling the remainder of Sarn's forces out and to confront them and hopefully buy Frodo some measure of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: um, extremely like, uplifting because they're willing to make this last stand, but also like, kind of, uh, tragic or almost, this hopeless feeling of, yeah, I mean, they're never going to manage to stand long because they just don't have the person power left to do it, but they're still willing to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is directly analogous to the moment we just talked about with
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to certain doom.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that they have to sacrifice themselves in order to achieve this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then miraculously something else happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things work.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a you catastrophe.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could you could you could test your thick moment?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that how you can say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but it sounds right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure, why not?
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, like, both of those moments are actually like, it's one person as opposed to a group of people, but they're all doing the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all willingly sacrificing themselves for the greater good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's, the sacrifice is always one of those things that, um, I don't know gives me chills because because it is, it is the greatest thing you can ever possibly do and oftentimes you're willing to make that that risk that it will make that I don't know, uh, let's just do that in light of not being certain about the outcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in both of those cases, they're not certain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf isn't sure he can take out the Bowerug.
[SPEAKER_01]: The military isn't even certain that they're gonna buy Frodo enough time or if Frodo's even still alive in that moment, yet they're still willing to take that risk in order to, in sacrifice, in order to try to achieve that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always found that very, both of those moments very, very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a result, what about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: What about the set pieces?
[SPEAKER_02]: What about the other moments?
[SPEAKER_02]: go by the more I've seen over all, just then if I have a sequence of that all, but think for me it's just part of the any moments we get glimpses into the larger world just due to as talking always decides to write, just keeping things sometimes left as a mystery, you don't know what is over that mountain range and so
[SPEAKER_02]: due to that you fill it with your imagination and makes the world feel more real.
[SPEAKER_01]: And bigger, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's just all those.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are the third age and everything is really a form of shadow and what it once was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's going past ruins of a region and I'm on the soul with where the top and having been a Sith Phil now
[SPEAKER_02]: just having these things, these great situations that they could have been living in, had the world not gone as terrible as it had, or I guess it's always meant to be with the way I'm a libertars always in plan, but still it's just a, it's sad and there's always that somber feeling I've, there's been going through it as there's things I'll never going to be the same and never going to be as big as they were, but when you still get there's glimpses like with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organath and with the organ
[SPEAKER_02]: Ministerus just being able to be in those moments of grandeur of the old, it's not the off the hills, it's always nice to have any of those moments just to have a glimpse behind the curtain of how life once was before all the magic started fading from the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a really cool thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so many of these things, in my mind, it connects to like very real experiences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in our world, everything from 1,000 years ago feels ancient.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's old, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've been able to uncover at least with our science and archaeology, enough of that stuff to note, to kind of piece a certain amount of our history together and be like, oh, these were the Babylonians and these are the Egyptians and these are
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, these early civilizations, but what's interesting to me about that is that you go back 2,02500 years to those ancient peoples, and they were stumbling on the ruins of people who came 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 years before them.
[SPEAKER_01]: with just as much wonder as to what is the like something like the city of Err was rediscovered or talked about by a Greek historian or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be mixing names and places.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember all the details, but we go back, you know, 20, 2500 years and Greek historians are going, there's some ancient civilization that
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like it was built by giants and it shows the rock they're so big and like that's what that feels like right like you see that like you said the Argonaut like To people of the third age there's not a manpower left in the world that could build those How did they get there it feels amazing it in mysterious and that that is really cool But it's also really cool that like we still feel that way as human beings like that we we go through that in our own world too
[SPEAKER_01]: very cool stuff guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're getting close to the end of the show here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to wrap things up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it so much that you guys take in the time to get together and chat about this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always fun to nerd out about our favorite things and I hope you are able to join me next month along with others if you would like to join us as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: In order to real quick, be thinking about final thoughts kind of your like last thing, anything else you want to say or wrap up or ways people can get a hold of you or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take a real quick moment to thank our patrons and everyone who makes this possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you to, and we've got some new Patrons who signed up in the last week, Leon G. Barack Crowbama, I'm the president of Cros, a wonderful name, Johann S. and Christian D. Thank you so much for joining and supporting the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, let's see if I can get through all the VIP patrons and some of these people might show up on future episodes and future chats.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to Fulcrum, David S. Danone, we ver Capena, Richard J. TJT.
[SPEAKER_01]: It came a music lover, Barney D. Asle Razzle, Blade of Anderil, Lori B. Norwegian Myart, Mason Weathertop, Jezor, Gimlia Break, Divine Madman, Rosie Rosé, the Bestest Boy, Ginger Fury.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who on is my hero?
[SPEAKER_01]: Aldarian is right.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Varyl, Party Snacks, Single Ent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much to everybody who helps support the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we got to wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you guys again for joining me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with Asle Razzle, Asle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any last thoughts?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope to see more of these of future.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always nice that you said to know now on some little of the rings and to any who are on the fence about it, please don't, as it didn't, it's very nice to have a nice full community there, just to hear everyone's thoughts and views, as you were saying, Tom earlier, it's always nice to get those perspectives that maybe you hadn't considered originally, and that someone else will say something from a different angle, and you thought, oh, that's actually a really good point
[SPEAKER_02]: will be good to to get more people together for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the material is so dense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, as I stated when I started the show, I am not the BL endle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not know everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am 100% open to learning things or reevaluating things or being reminded about things and be like, Oh, I need to read that again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't thought about that in a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the topics of future shows like I stated before will be determined by the patrons.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there are certain things that you really would love to talk about, bring it with you and suggest it as a topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there are other people who would be like, yeah, that sounds great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's this chat is going to be a monthly thing and it's going to change and evolve over time and we're just going to see where it goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks again as oral and Matt, any last thoughts, any last words?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, enjoyed just like you said, nerdy note and talking with people who have the passion and knowledge of the stuff, of this content because, yeah, I attempt to this conversation with my old son who does have a huge
[SPEAKER_03]: wealth of knowledge for for different kind of IPs like this, but not Lord of the Rings.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he just kind of stairs at me blankly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you have a full to have a conversation with people who know as and and can have a that reciprocal kind of conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a lot to fun and I was glad to get on get on the call today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's something everyone who listens to the show can probably relate to is the like, oh, I'm so excited about this thing and the other person just stairs at you like, uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, so come join us and we're not going to stare at you and just go, uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go, yeah, that's a cool point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you guys for both joining me and everyone else for continuing to listen to the show and being a part of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the big episode for this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is going up on the feed and it's it's an hour long.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take place for the bonus episode along with the regular episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: All contained in just this one episode this week and that's kind of how that'll work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'll be back next week with another regular episode and a bonus episode just like usual and we'll work through May and then we'll have another chat and we'll see who joins us for that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But until then, have a wonderful time, hang it out, listen to the other episodes, and hope your rest of your week and month go well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more, at robotsradio.net.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their links, in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next time.