[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the next comics versus exploration of the M.C.
[SPEAKER_00]: universe where the lorehounds you're a light in the void.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Alicia the girl who liked to play Goli so that I didn't have to run as much.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Jean, the guy who would throw you out of window, then pull you back in just to tell you to kick rocks.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is the comics versus deep dive into Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And warning spoilers for everything marvels on the table, but we will start with some spoiler free hot takes before giving you this spoiler warning.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to talk about what we thought for those of you who are considering whether or not to see this film.
[SPEAKER_00]: The log line is in snared in a death trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: An unconventional team of anti-heroes, Yelena Bolova, Bucky Barnes, Red Guardian, Ghost, Taskmaster, and John Walker, embarks on a dangerous mission that forces them to confront the darkest corners of their past.
[SPEAKER_00]: John, hot takes spoiler-free, what did you think of this movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I actually loved it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had reservations going into the movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I thought it would be hard to do Bob, but I just, I absolutely love this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's one of the better MCU movies out there regardless of what phase you want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of the better movies that they've made.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ragtag group of characters together that probably not many people outside hardcore MCU people or comic bookheads know a lot about and gave them this story to introduce them to the larger world.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was well done and just yeah I will rave about this movie for quite a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really liked it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, this is my second favorite film of 2025 so far, of course, sinners.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that honestly, that's the only thing that it suffers in comparison to sinners.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm so glad that we have two excellent films that I can tell everyone to go see in the theaters right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like these are films that are going to entertain the hell out of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are also films that are going to
[SPEAKER_00]: make you feel things and think about things in a deeper level.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I had you in mind as I was watching and like, oh, how are they gonna handle Bob?
[SPEAKER_00]: But just, I mean, I could tell from the opening monologue that Yelena gives, I could tell that they were, they were going at this from the right angle.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this really is a film about mental health, but also with some really cool fight scenes,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think the movie makes you think about things that are happening in everyday life and being a comic book movie when things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: able to occur to have been on screen and you feel it like this is part of what everyone kind of goes through at some point but you're getting it and this superhero flick is just it's just so so damn special and you know we often talk about how
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, these type of movies don't get the respect that they should, just because the nature of the characters and the nature of the story that people know, the source material, but you can't sometimes, the fantastical can lead you to some really wonderful
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we are having a great conversation just before recording about that in the murder bot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just murder bots.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have the code one.
[SPEAKER_00]: My bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is exactly the kind of conversation that we want, you know, that we want good storytelling to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: critical thinking that it is praise but also how can we continue to better tell stories that teach us more about the world and this is this is definitely contributing to that like I like it's bridges that line where it's just it is really just a well written story about characters that I just want to hang out with you know I want to spend time with them in the theaters I mean I don't know if I want to hang out with them but you know
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not, I'm not pulling the bomb and let me have a beer with you, but it's wasted.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I would smoke and blunt with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about that, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, at the same time, it also has ease.
[SPEAKER_00]: fantastic moments where like there's one thing that Bucky did at one point that made me shout out cool in the theater.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I loved, I love the music, by the way, it's a sound lux, sound tracks on lux also did the soundtrack for everything everywhere, once they were nominated for that and yeah, they just, and when I see their name now I get excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good stuff, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a really good movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the final film and penultimate project in phase five of the MCU.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're coming to a strong end.
[SPEAKER_00]: The movies in this phase were Ant-Man and the Wasque quantumania, Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3, the Marvel's Deadpool and Wolverine, Captain America, Brave New World, Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of those, I think most of those are quite good.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's two where I'm like, meh.
[SPEAKER_00]: which don't be shy, which I won't be shy, cause Romania and Captain America Brave New World is my lowest rated of this batch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: In order of favorites for me, in this batch would be Thunderbolts, Marvels,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, we're squatting and manning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Captain America, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go, um, then Guardians, then Marvels, then Deadpool, Wolverine, then, um, where are we at, man, then Captain America?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I forgot to rank Deadpool and Wolverine.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that tells you how I feel about that movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: So strictly, I don't know if I like it better than Captain America, Bravely World.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fair, fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Deadpool and Wolverine occupy the same space as Captain America.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as far as the phase five shows, we've, I think it's been with one notable exception.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we know that wasn't this phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: With one note of no exception.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's been pretty solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, including I am Groot.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little baby Groot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were cute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Secret invasion.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't say we don't say we don't even say the link that one talk about that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no Loki season two What if Echo Agatha all along your friendly neighborhood spider-man dare devil born again and then coming up to end the phase is iron heart on you I mean, that's pretty strong stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one little stumble in there, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's one major stumble, one major stumble, but everything else is just really, really good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, people, catch up if you haven't.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all worth watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the director of this film is Jake Schreier.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is his third feature only after Robot and Frank and Paper Towns, which were both really strong features with emotional cores, but...
[SPEAKER_00]: interesting adventure as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: The writers where Eric Pearson, who's, he's like a big member of the Marvel stable, you'll often see his name as rewriting a lot of doing rewrites of a lot of the biggest films like Infinity War and Endgame and stuff too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most notably for this, he did the screenplay for Black Widow so you can see how that character banter came back into this and he's
[SPEAKER_00]: and the other writers, Joanna Kahlo, who, yeah, she's got nothing but hits as far as I can see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bodget Horseman, Hacks, beef, like this is a powerhouse writer of this emotional stuff, nuanced and but also fun and tark humor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, did you find it a funny movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: Inspons, yes, yes, inspons.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only been on a few weeks so far, we are late with the, but it still, it's in theaters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still collecting money so far as of May 15th, it's 280 million box office on an 80 million budget.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is quite a modest budget for an MCL and I think they should do more of this frankly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did a lot of practical effects.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, not, I mean, of course, yeah, I've pulled out the big guns for your secret wars or whatever, but I think a lot of the in-between movies should be of this size in school.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reviews lean quite positive on Rotten Tomatoes, 88% from critics, 94% from audiences on Metacritic 68% of critics liked it, a 7.4 from audiences and a 3.7 out of 5 on letter box.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how would you rank this on the Pukillus scale for emotional and physical violence?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I would recommend this to anyone who doesn't know Pukula's skills is named after Marilyn, our favorite Tolkien scholar who doesn't like physical or emotional violence in movies, but I would probably recommend this one to her, though, just because of the sensitivity around the discussion of mental health.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is, that's a good point, that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's not like terribly,
[SPEAKER_03]: off-putting.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's still some stuff in there that can, you know, send you in a ways that you may not expect from a movie featuring the MCU characters, you know, the play?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's, yeah, there's going to be a discussion of, of, yeah, have dark mental states.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's cathartic, I found.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how you get into those
[SPEAKER_03]: Try to come out of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say this is one that people should see in the theater?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you think it's okay to wait until it comes out at home?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm a proponent of telling people go to the theater, so, mm-hmm, but
[SPEAKER_03]: quite honestly, I'm not the visuals guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there are no aspects that I can say to anyone, you know, you will get a better feel for the movie and a theater than rather at home on the screen.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing visually or nothing auditory that I can say you have to see it in a larger screen
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there are great action scenes and what I especially liked about this is that there was this was less of just a commercial project in the way it was shot and more like I really liked the framing of you know the shots that was done it was done in a more thoughtful intimate way the cinematography but there were still big action scenes you know
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, it's always going to be a bit better in a theater, but I honestly think the strongest strength of this film is the character.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if that's better for you at home, then, okay, man, although I want to see it do well, obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why, you know, we are proponents of going to see it in a theater so we can get more of these type of films.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'll say, if you do watch it at home, preferably rented or watch it on Disney where it gets logged that people are watching it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or rewatch it there whenever it works for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I any final things that you would say to the people who have not seen the film yet before we get into spoilers.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, this, this talk about the movie and maybe
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, we're going to take a quick break when we get back the spoiler veil will be lifted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so as far as the timeline of this, we think that it's about April 20, 27, about 14 months after Captain America 4, because we see Washington Monument that was damaged, has scaffolding around it and just there's some references to the President turning into a whole thing like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably what it's said.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get this opening of
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something wrong with me, a void.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it started what my sister died.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now it seems like something bigger, just a void.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe I'm just bored, which, as soon as I heard that, I was immediately in because it's such an accurate representation of depression that, you know, it is just feeling depression isn't really just being sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about feeling empty.
[SPEAKER_00]: but avoid avoid or you know where you're just like, or maybe I'm just bored, but it's you just can't get excited for things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we see her jump from the second tall is building in the world, which is Mardeca, one 18, and Cuala Lampor, Malaysia.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't even think about this because I guess I knew going in, but it was sort of framed to look like a suicide, but then of course she, but I didn't think she was committing suicide, did you?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get, um, you know, we just were covering Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we get an overhead hallway fight here with shadows in the floor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a wonderful.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and definitely foreshadowing the shadow stuff we get with the voice later, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of this whole opening with Yelena's voice over and action?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she's a great point of your character.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Kudos to Florence Pew for, you know, breathing life into this character because it could have very well gone sourly.
[SPEAKER_03]: The portrayal after Johansson's Black Widow, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: She's on screen and
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she's a better widow than widow for me personally.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's more personality.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think she brings a whole different level of thought and emotion into the character that she's portraying than what we had before.
[SPEAKER_03]: The opening sequence when, as you just said, she maybe I'm just bored.
[SPEAKER_03]: after she says, I thought it started when my sister died, because grief can almost feel like depression, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when you're, when you're grieving a great loss, you feel that void that something is missing from your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not depression, and that's personally
[SPEAKER_03]: Growing up, grief comes at you, it never leaves you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It comes at waves at times, you don't even understand why it's happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can not surpass it, but you learn how to ride those waves of emotion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Depression is not like, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You need help to ride those wave of emotions when someone is dealing with a mental health issue, such as that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that this opening to hit you immediately with those two themes was something that
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not expect that because as I'm dealing with my own grief in my life, it's not something that I thought I would be sitting watching in the first five minutes of this MCU movie and thinking about how her issues mirror my own in how they differ greatly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did I lose you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh wait, no, okay, okay, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just forgot I'm muted myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay, I'm walking back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that, yeah, like I said, but people miss grief is something that has, you know, where it comes from, and depression is something where you are constantly searching, like, it's the same thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's causing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, it comes down to often chemicals in your body.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are obviously triggers,
[SPEAKER_00]: It comes to down to like these chemical responses and you see Yelena at this point, you know, she gets these instructions go destroy this lab and it's not her job to wonder whether she's doing the right thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: and she she just doesn't have the interest in doing that like she's like I'm going through the motions and that's the best that I can do right now and so when we see her as soon as like she goes to see her father later and she is starting to think like I don't know maybe I want to do something different maybe I want to be a hero this is starting to show that she's ready to fight out into caring but
[SPEAKER_00]: even once you make that first step to indicate to people you love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm ready to step out of this darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still need help from right people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the fact that she makes those to statements in that opening scene, right, whether I thought I was it was because of my sister's death.
[SPEAKER_03]: but maybe it's not, maybe I'm bored, you know, she's trying to work all of these things out, this feeling that she's having, she's searching, like you said, why am I feeling this way?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_03]: And she recognizes that it's not because of solely because of black widows death, that she feels the way that she feels, something else is going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's always, you can, I can't speak for everyone, but I will speak for myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Often times, when I feel the ways about something, the something that I'm feeling
[SPEAKER_03]: in a way that is not dealing with the thing that's really bothering me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you have to work this stuff out and you have to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Therapy, however you wanna try to get to those root causes, this is what we should try and endeavor to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what she's trying to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's trying to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in just this short amount of time, I got all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and what I also admire about the film is, you know, we get this emotional voiceover while we're getting this action scene and then it seamlessly blends in a humor when it comes in a focus and we see that she's monologing this to a guy she's tied up on one of her jobs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get a, we get the giddy pig moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: She, she rescues the giddy pig.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love one of the favorite scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was in the trailer when she's walking away with the giddy pig and she's like, oh, the job is, oh wait, yeah, it's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have to point out that the giddy pig does pop up in the end credits.
[SPEAKER_00]: The director says everyone asks him about the giddy pig.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Hopefully we'll get more in the next movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what did you think of, I, it feels like the most controversial scene or sequence, I guess I should say it's a whole bunch of scenes is the vault trap situation where basically Val, she's got this ox group thing where she's had her operatives cleaning up.
[SPEAKER_00]: the operation because she's being investigated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now she's like, okay, we've got all the stuff in this vault.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to send them in each one to kill another one and then fire the vault so that they're all dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all my dirty laundry is dead, but they figure out, yeah, John Walker, USA agent sent to kill
[SPEAKER_00]: after testmasters done dirty, they figure out what's going on and start to fight back.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think about that whole sequence?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that there was a hub of a blue about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't hear.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was a great sequence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought the way that each character came into view and
[SPEAKER_03]: not knowing they're in the dark, you know, there's a, there's a theme going on here, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't know, they're, they're in a place where they don't know much about what's going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: And not thinking really beyond their orders.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm sent to do this one thing and that's all I'm going to do, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Until, you know, it's clear that something else is going on again, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something else happening here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when we first, when we see all of them in the room, they're not thinking about anything other than the mission that they were sent to do was just to kill someone, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was well done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was well portrayed and how they had each of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Individually had to come to the realization that they were being set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like this low group a ha moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which made it believable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought it was quite believable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought we needed this first vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we get that introduction to the characters, as you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it gives them time to talk to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are forced into sort of awkward teamwork.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess my, my only small complaint, but you know, thinking about it long and hard to understand why they did it, but they did testmaster dirty.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, that was that was it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And cause these, she's the best, she's the best fighter out of all of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, she was out against someone supernatural, but yeah, I guess, but still, I mean, wow, the way she took her, how, too, was this like, oh, I did not see a comment, it was like, I literally like, I said, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: When, you know, she got taken out, I was like, wow, they really did that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is the movie that's really pulling no punches.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they said they did it to establish stakes and I understand that, but there was a version where she stuck around But I do there are a few things where I'm like, oh, would have been nice to get more of that But when I think about it this movie for me was balanced in its pacing and you know, it's runtime and
[SPEAKER_00]: just the amount of storylines that it tried to juggle that I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Decisions like that, but I'm also like, oh man, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little iffy of the taskmaster thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of two quibbles I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that you've been like, okay, quibbles, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not even strongly, just like,
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah foster dad who's we've seen him in one if he's been showing up as a character but um but I understand yeah I'm glad we got a bit more of ghost I hope we do get more of her in the future because she had a fun personality in this and I'd love to see more of that story and where is Bill Foster involved.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when you say she had a fun personality in this that's another thing about this movie that I really enjoyed is that it brought out the personalities
[SPEAKER_03]: You really got to meet them and know them a little bit more so than, you know, they weren't it wasn't fleeting, not for any of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They could have very much made this movie about Yalena, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But they didn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: They made this movie about them.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't just about this one character and how that character, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: how they all revolve around her, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: They made this movie about them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really liked that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask, what did you think of John Walker in this movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know you were not a fan coming out of Falcon in the winter soldier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm still not a fan of John Walker.
[SPEAKER_03]: I still think he's pompous, but they humanized him here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the way that he wasn't humanized in Captain America
[SPEAKER_03]: So I enjoyed this John Walker much more than I enjoyed the John Walker in the TV series.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it gave me more of the gave me more to feel about him than what he was in Falcon and Winter Soldier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we saw him with his wife and Falcon and Winter Soldier and they seemed fairly happy what we barely saw any of her, which is it's ironic this is a movie and there's more space for him, but I understand it's because that was he was not one of the main characters in the other series, but do you think that the events of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I mean, do you think that ruined his marriage in it virtually because he became depressed after that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can definitely see that because he wasn't a when we when we leave him and Falconon went to soldier.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not a very nice person.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not even at the start of this, he's a jackass, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and not just a jackass, you could be a jackass, but he's not nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not, he's not somebody that you want to, you want to hang out with.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not somebody that you want to have over at your house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't never invite him to meet my kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's the top of the person he is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I want to keep you far away from my family, from my loved one, from my friends.
[SPEAKER_03]: This work partner, this work person that you just have to put up with for a few hours.
[SPEAKER_03]: And those hours are done.
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to be as far away from that person as possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's who he is.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can very well see the ego.
[SPEAKER_03]: that he had being crushed in the way that it was, leading to him having, you know, a terrible, terrible outcome for him in his wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: His family has burgeoned in family.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think he's not in a good place in this when this movie starts.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not in a good place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, I love how he says on your left, like he's claiming he's still claiming that capital, but that didn't make me laugh, made me laugh.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, I think that, um, we, yeah, we see him as someone who, he was by the way, he was going to be an antagonist, um, in the original draft.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he just felt that was to,
[SPEAKER_00]: this is the draft that was going to be more of taskmaster and he was going to be more of an antagonist and I'm actually I'm I miss having more of taskmaster but I'm really glad that they decided to make him, you know, an anti hero that you can route to get better, get good for it to get better.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah that's the right choice definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, okay, we also got in the sequence, the introduction to Bob, who was going to be played by Stephen Yoon, but ended up, he ended up dropping out, and we got Lewis Pullman instead of Bill's Pullman Sun, as if you can't see it in the face.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, what did you think of this casting?
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of this character?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he did a great job.
[SPEAKER_03]: did a good job on Bob's last century.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: They really, it was, that character is so hard to portray even on page, even in the comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: right because he is a character that is dealing with, you know, depression and he has a a whole alternate personality which is a parasitic, you know, cosmic being that's latched onto him.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't understand?
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's how they were able to pull it off in the way
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the acting, the character portrayal, the writing, everything about Bob, what for me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was Bob's when Steven Young dropped out, but now I can't imagine it being anyone, but let's go, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he really nailed the complexity of this character.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the different sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: because he pops out, he is just kind of like, who are you, who are you?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I'm mom, I'm mom, you mean you're mom, how'd you get that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I'm weird, I'm the, that was great, that was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it just really hit, it's just a character that has the power of
[SPEAKER_03]: Billion exploding suns, how do you put that on screen in a relatable way that people don't look at it as a superman, right, you know, it's a car can and this was this was done, it's written really well in the comic books and it was written really well.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was written really well in this story and this movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really liked that they immediately showed Elena reaching out to him like I imagine you know made me think of the beginning of Black Widow and the way that the way that Natasha was treating Elena when they were children and you know taking care of her and wanting to protect her and from the bad things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just saw Elena
[SPEAKER_00]: sometimes that helps if you're struggling to help someone else who is struggling and that helps you to feel better as well to sort of pull each other out of this and so it was nice to see her immediately reach out like that and you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think of it in that way I thought of it as the Tasha and Bruce for some reason, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Natasha being the only one able to talk the monster down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I got from...
[SPEAKER_00]: But she learned it from her sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, from her sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't make that connection until you just said it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the connection that I didn't make was Natasha and Bruce.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a good parallel, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Natasha lives on through Elena and her kindness.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love to the whole sequence with the Asterix shaped climb.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you gotta have some really strong abs glued.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, everything gotta be super tall.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, and these these people really, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: They are all the way to the top.
[SPEAKER_03]: They heard that crawl all the way to the top.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, hell, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was hilarious when John says, don't worry, I got this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's standing back and you jump.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you do?
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you know how far down you are.
[SPEAKER_03]: You are not the hoax or, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you may have super-soldier serum, but you're not,
[SPEAKER_03]: jumping a mile, like, or two, I would think they were into the earth from crust or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just like, man, and then he can crash and down.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was hilarious.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because as he jumped, I'm like, dude, I'm like, no way.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, no way, you're going to be hit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Boom, we fell right back down.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he's well, I love the like the bickering banter in the way up to like cucumber cucumber don't sneeze I'm like Bitching about ghosts hard, but because of her spirit I'm sorry, I need a suit to help me stay corporeal
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the, and then at the top, you know, we start, and I'm glad we got this arc for John Walker, where, when we got to, when they got to the top, he left them in a way that they really, luckily, the rest of them, well, luckily, the rest of them were working together.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all would have fallen that mile or whatever to their death.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder at the end of the movie, if he would have handled that differently at the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what they would have done otherwise to be honest, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... and then we see bob from the beginning he i like that he is just like scary you know he's an antagonist more than a villain in this movie i would say
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think Bob is a villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: The voice of the villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: The voice of the villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Bob is saying, I don't know if the void is part of me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is still a question in the MCU version.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we see at the end of this first section, he sacrifices himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he knew that he was not going to get shot?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he had an ink in his powers already?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: That he's going to die.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not that I'm going to hear something.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think he knew.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, and then he, he said he was afraid of heights, and then he flies up into the high past and so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Impaces up, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to work on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess he was doing better later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I loved Bucky in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get, you know, on the road, we can plead the rest of the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get Bucky, who is, he lasted half a term as a congressman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering, like, we were just recently talking about Daredevil, the TV series in a series.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about like his quest to expose valentina.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like he tried to go about it that Matt Murdoch away with being a congressman and then he's like, you know, this is not getting me anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be do the Daredevil version where he reverts to winter soldier mode and teams up with these people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I agree with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think Matt Murdoch was just trying to run away from who he was.
[SPEAKER_03]: he was trying to run away from their devil.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't, you know, actively trying to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, it's not a one-to-one thing, but it's just saying that he figured out that working out outside the law was going to be more effective than going to the courts.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I think Matt is still...
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm just talking, I agree with Bucky.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll fight you just said about Bucky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just talking about Bucky there, here.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, yeah, yeah, I totally agree with him coming to the realization, especially after leaving, you know, Sam in the lurch fighting the red hope, because he, you know, out doing
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, was he campaigning at that in that movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So whatever he was doing, he couldn't be bothered to show up to help his friend, realizing that maybe being a politician and trying to read these briefs is not the best use of my time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think he did come to that realization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he had my favorite action scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love when he comes in and rescues the rest of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he like is on the motorcycle and he pulls back the car and slams his arm into the road and it goes through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm doing a big, exploding arm.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, looking was bad as in this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was bad as in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: and he and Alexey were funny together, reminded me of what if season three.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, immediately I felt it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was great to see Red Guardian back and have him like as the embarrassing dad role, where like when he comes running up on the highway and you're laying is like, oh god.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, you know, how he's living, too, he's also someone who's battling his demons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, he's isolated, he's, you know, uncamp, you know, just, and really not in touch with anyone.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's totally cut off from the world at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though he has this limousine service, but it doesn't seem like he has much friends.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't seem like he has anyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at least he lives in D.C. because he'll have, you know, the Baltimore is one block that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was interesting to see when Yelena went to see him at the beginning of the movie, and they're both, um, they haven't seen each other for a year at that point, and they're both, um, I feel like she blames him later for, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like they were both avoiding each other because they were kind of trying to hide that they weren't doing well.
[SPEAKER_00]: emotionally.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think I think they were both off in their own corners, but I don't know if Alexey was in his own corner because of his own
[SPEAKER_03]: like struggles.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he was in his own corner, specifically because he did not think Elena wanted him around.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost as if he was hiding, hiding himself from her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not hiding what he's going through, but just physically hiding from her.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Elena is hiding what she's going through.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is a difference to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: My second quibble with the film, first quibbles taskmaster, second quibble out of two is that I don't believe the vow would have hired Alexie's limo, and I especially don't believe that she would have spoken that freely in front of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, no way, no way, no way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's okay, conveniently, get him in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm happy with it, I'm cool with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I saw him as the limo driver, I was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: She's too smart and too, you know, cultured to have that demo driving her around, you know, to be seen in that demo is not now.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be better parties who want him as their driver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think about the, what will ignore the estrics for now?
[SPEAKER_00]: But what did you think about the explanation of the name Thunderbolts in this movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought I was fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't move me one way or the other.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was expecting, now we were going to name you the Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was expecting anything like that either, so it was fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was perfectly cute, and that's what they went with, because of that
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a fun running gag and they're like arguing about who sponsored the Thunderbolt steam and somehow the entire group gets into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, we're calling ourselves after her childhood soccer team, whatever, fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, yeah, I thought it was a fun running gag, um, apparently.
[SPEAKER_00]: they did want to film a flashback to the soccer team, but then they thought twice about it because in Black Widow, David Harbour, when he was stationed in America in the past, he had developed an American accent, which obviously he is not using now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're like, we don't want to remind people about that other accent, we just want him to use the fun one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did wonder though, so they mentioned when they'd go to the court scenes where Val's being investigated, they mentioned the whole thing about, you know, the president turned into his name is, that is Ross, but he was good, yeah, I mean, so it's named after him the group in the comics a bit, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or what's the clarification for where it comes from in the comics at Thunderbolt's name?
[SPEAKER_03]: Norman Osborne, and the tattiest for us, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he, yeah, tattattiest Thunderbolt Ross was his nickname, but they haven't established that in the MCU, I guess?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember anyone calling him Thunderbolt.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: okay because they they make reference to him turning into a Hulk and that's the now played by Harrison Ford character and he turned into Red Hulk indeed in the last movie but yeah no mention of the name Thunderbolt so they just kind of looped that in as only temporarily but like I said I want to keep that name it's different it's cute
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, so we have Val is under investigation because of her ox group has been, well, they've, she's been doing this superhero experiment thing that ended up giving birth to the century.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not literally giving birth, but you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so, but Val, this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the director of the CIA, but she's like, Oh, no, no, no, I divested Ox group interest, which sounds very like other certain political people in the real world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, no, I divested my interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just sit on the advisory board.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just telling them what to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I laughed, I cackled, I cackled, I said, yeah, look at them making real-world connections.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I did wonder, we had window pierced in their playing Leonard Gary, and he is a more important character in the comics.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a mutant.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that they used him here, I don't wonder if there was more to his character before or if they're planning to do more of his character in the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think, um, um, you know, I'm hesitant to figure to say anything until I see fantastic
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but the least kept secret of this film was that, oh, Val has taken over Avengers Tower, which is now calling the watch tower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we see her that she plays, she decides to mom century and that actually seems to work for a while, but he has this thing we didn't talk about yet where he touches people and he can go into like their worst memory.
[SPEAKER_03]: Deepest darkest memories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we saw him with Yelena, this moment where she's being trained by the red room and she has to lure a friend outside to get shot, which is awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like a test she had passed for the red room.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we saw with John Walker that he, you know, when his marriage was falling apart and he's not paying attention to his son and just in a complete depression.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then we see with Valentina, a glimpse of her past and so they're speaking Italian, which, yeah, given her name this makes sense, and her, she sees her father, I presume, killed by a German soldier, and so this makes me ask, how old is Valentina?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause that was looking very well, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's, that's going to be a thing for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Captain America's Steve Rogers be pre-ice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pre-ice, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she does not have an Italian accent now, so it does not.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm happy with his valentina.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Allegra.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Dante.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, it's not Fontaine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be like if I just called you fence.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a great line for my horrible person.
[SPEAKER_03]: A great line nonetheless.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love how if you go back and watch the movie, you can see in the vault that there's a whole bunch of paperwork where they're like workshopping looks for century and this is how they decided to die his hair blonde because he is blonde in the comics.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was handled well and I liked the characterization of century that he will fight them because this is at the moment what he thinks he's supposed to do because his new mommy figure is like a you need to fight them because they whatever
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but he doesn't want to kill them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like he pulls, he throws Red Guardian out the window and pulls him back inside and when, uh, Val's like, no, you have to kill them.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, no, I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't have to do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: You tell me because I'm way more powerful than you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you have to do what I tell you.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: You said half the powers of a God.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do I have to listen to?
[SPEAKER_03]: I am so happy that a character in these in this world says something like that, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, there's no way you can tell me what to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I can do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, who are you to watch your run or get the fuck out of here?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just like, are you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm so happy somebody actually said that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I could, in a second, that's made this entire building.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you tell me what to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: That dismissive attitude, I kind of think that, you know, folks with superpowers might have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Toward authority types.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, especially, yeah, because she's got an award.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's gotten him to disengage and go against the people who are nice to him and probably, yeah, he isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had all that many people nice to him in this group.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's just, yeah, except John Walker.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's he still doesn't want to kill him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's still part of the group.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so I was so glad he said those words.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, can't tell me what to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't make me do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, except so she thinks she thought that she had the kill switch, which she did.
[SPEAKER_00]: She installed a kill switch in him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she even got, we haven't talked yet about Mel.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Mel is her assistant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm presuming her full name is Melissa Gold because that's a character thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did expect more.
[SPEAKER_00]: of Mel's story, this movie, but like I said, I think it's balanced and it would have been too much to fit in and I'm presumably she'll be back.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was interesting that even Mel's like, oh no, oh no, I have to hit the kill switch to save you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that doesn't kill him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That just makes him angrier.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that actually brings out the boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Mel, that character was going to be played by I.O.
[SPEAKER_00]: at a Beery, but again, I really liked Geraldine.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one off with her last name.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one off the, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I really liked the casting and performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think about Mel?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought she was, you know, well played and very.
[SPEAKER_03]: This one nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: True.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very true to the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm paraphrasing here, you know, you have a choice to stay here and do this shit or do something else, you know, like you know who you're working for, you know what this person has capable of doing, you know what they have done, you have a choice to either keep on this path or change.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, given the times that we're in, that was,
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, unexpected for me to hear in this movie, and I'm glad for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it makes a movie stronger and I think it makes Bucky a stronger character for seeing those things for recognizing
[SPEAKER_03]: what he's seeing, because he is also someone who for literal fascists, right, in World War II alongside Steve Rogers.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has a bit of history with this stuff, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: So for him to look at her and say, yeah, I'm 100 and whatever he is old, and you have a choice here.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, I thought that was really powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people are talking about romantic vibes between them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you get that?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, but I did, but I'm also like, I don't know, age, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's fine, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there is lucky really a hundred and nine years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I mean he was he was he frozen for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean he does how much of well, I guess he remembers now all of his soldier's stuff does he?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think he was all of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He remembers all of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he was in and out of suspended animation, you know, they kept him on ice for a few years at a time.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's he really hundred and nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't hate it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought no, you know, who was
[SPEAKER_03]: true to form, like how many people who are young want the proximity to power and what that means, like they're willing to do the things, the sort of things that maybe in 20 years, they look back on and say to themselves, how did I do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: If they, you know, are good
[SPEAKER_03]: But right now, I think she's at her crossroads.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the film portrayed that well for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that actually the, you know, movie has to have a low point before can reach the crescendo of the climax.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the low point actually comes right after this for the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad, I mean, at least we have the void stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about in a sec.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before that, we get a couple of emotional beats with the team where they are at their lowest as teamwork in Yelena.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one who was the one reaching out to people is now lashing out at everyone The worst and funniest is like she says something snarky to everyone and then John Walker says is it my turn?
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said no you know your piece of trash walker your family does do he's like cheat
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a little hard, but I can't say I disagree, you know, I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I'm just saying that I
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she could have done what she did next without that kind of pep talk of sorts from Definitely, no, no, no, no, she definitely needed to hear that She definitely needed to hear that they needed to have that that brief moment of connection of Recognized pain of a apology Right of forgiveness No matter how brief you know a couple of minutes at most right, but they needed it
[SPEAKER_03]: as she needed it in order to do what she did.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, all right, let's take one more quick break here.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we get back, we're going to get into the visual and emotional climax of the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, time to go into the void.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we have century in full void form.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that way, how cool was that with, it was making me think also of sinners with, you know, where he's all blacked out and just the glowing eyes?
[SPEAKER_03]: That was so dope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was so dope.
[SPEAKER_03]: The visual of that is fucking haunting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: How?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm amazed that they were able to pull that off because that look, it's unlike anything that we've kind of seen before, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so unique to this character, that it's immediately
[SPEAKER_00]: and and he says are you tired of fighting here let me help you so he's still approaching it from a place of empathy where he thinks he's helping people by like all-end your pain and just the via the full full for the visual effect of people just turning into flatening in the shadows yeah oh my god that was so you know it's just like Thanos slapping in his own dust you don't have
[SPEAKER_03]: just like licking your direction and pull me out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a shadow on the ground, like holy shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so well executed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the whole, I love that whole action sequence, where each of the Thunderbolts got their moment to do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so in the crowd saw them and Val saw the crowd seeing them, where she wanted to kill them.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, oh, maybe they, maybe they are marketable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then that climax is with Red Guardian saves this little girl and he's like, you're safe now and just then poop She's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I said then What's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're taking the kids to
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that hits hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a part of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're taking the kids out, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man, we didn't even see that when Thanos did the snap.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're taking the kids out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh, I mean, I have the kids in the universe most of the disappearance.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, but when it's seeing, oh, no, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, this was right in our face, like, poor kid is gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, no, who is the kid?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very grown-up movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say this in the, I forgot to say this when I was doing the spoiler free review, but I said when this film came out that I think for me, from the perspective of telling an emotional and grossing story about the humanity of Superheroes, in that regard, it's the best Marvel film since Logan.
[SPEAKER_03]: In my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to say that you're wrong, I'm not going to say that you're wrong at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to give that some thought.
[SPEAKER_03]: all right in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, this is, you know, where I was saying that you Lannus talked with her dad kind of pumps her up and she's like, you know, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I needed my dad to pull me out of that downward spiral where I was insulting everyone who was trying to help me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Bob needs that right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, you know, what sometimes people need you to just step into the darkness
[SPEAKER_03]: present in their pain, you know, you may not offer them a solution, but just by being there, just by extending that hand, and for them knowing that they're not alone, can change someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can host someone to see the help that they need.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in this movie, it does often involve confronting your own darkness as well, to help them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is why we see in the real world people struggling often to be there for people who are at a low point because they...
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to be pulled down to that low point as they feel it, but actually you can, as this movie shows you, you by reaching toward each other in the depths, you can pull each other up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we got, we got his backstory.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't talk much about his backstory, but he was, um, a meth addict.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had one point, he was spinning, science, dresses, a chickens.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a glimpse of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not an official quibble, but just, um, how did a meth addict end up in Malaysia looking for drugs?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that is ambitious.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, not just a little bit away, yeah, it's a well, there's a way and we don't know what Bob's, you know, a bringing is Mm-hmm, maybe yeah, so we got to play that story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we got a glimpse.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't look like he came from money, but um,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get to eat them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They look like you came from poverty, either.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just think to go that far looking for drugs is, I don't know, is that like necessarily methods something that you make from supermarket and greedy, and so usually.
[SPEAKER_03]: But just because you're on meth doesn't mean that's the only thing you crave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what he said, though, that he was there looking for drugs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we don't he lied.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe we shouldn't necessarily believe that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he was there looking for drugs.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I won't speak in the addiction because I have not been addicted.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I can't speak to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But
[SPEAKER_03]: people do things when they are addicted, and they find way...
[SPEAKER_00]: But why, Malaysia?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you run to the other side of the world?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that getting more, having to do with it, that's just far away here.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you get away from the pain that you're experiencing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then once you find yourself on the other side of the world,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all right, and you got to deal with it and the only way that you know how to deal with it is to find some more drugs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean first about I love the the construction of this whole thing very eternal sunshine of the spotless mind with the way the rooms flow into each other of these people's minds and and the
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting so you brought up earlier how in the comics it's a cosmic entity who latches on to Bob.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this version so far we don't know you know we don't know what they're going to say about it later but at this point Bob is not sure he says the void what it is might actually be a part of me and have always been a part of him and part of me wouldn't mind
[SPEAKER_00]: what happened with this drug trial that it just kind of spun off this dark side of him into a literal entity because I find that more interesting that it's coming from within rather than something that infected him from space.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean yeah that I think that will be.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think keeping it this way or maybe even keeping it ambiguous.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm cool with either either or.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think
[SPEAKER_03]: anything more than just manifestation of Bob's own, you know, grief, depression, I don't think it has to be something more than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it basically ends with a giant hug and some people make fun of that, but actually I found that really powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, again, just, you know, just personal,
[SPEAKER_03]: life experience, you know, I think people are uncomfortable with that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially in certain masculine ways, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And there are times I've never felt safer than in
[SPEAKER_03]: being in conjunction with my friends, consoling me in that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are things that I remember still to this day.
[SPEAKER_03]: My father passing, you know, just friends who've passed and those of us left behind trying to find a way out
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is very powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think also from this particular group of characters that they are their way of dealing with everything that they've been taught is fight it, fight it, down and beat it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there's something extremely strong about them coming to this point where they realize you don't have to fight, sometimes fighting is not the answer, sometimes
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, saying I'm here for you, sometimes that fixes things a lot better than fighting can make things worse if they fought him there, then also, I don't know if they fought him there, everyone would die.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and also, you know, this is a group of characters who, you know, we've seen only no isolation, like ghosts can't be touched.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, your land is running from everything, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: John is John, there's not many people who get close to him, you know, because of all the barriers that he puts up in front, hiding behind that helmet, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And for them to come together in that moment, to be together, you know, that's powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm sorry if people don't understand that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe I'm happy for people who don't understand that because they haven't had to go through it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And needing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I can only hope that.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have to need that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the line from Andor?
[SPEAKER_00]: How nice for you, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it was very powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: How it did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we get our happy ending.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we get all the unvoided people return.
[SPEAKER_00]: Except, you know, we saw some helicopters and stuff go down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those people are definitely dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, they gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: They gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sorry for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the little girls back, so we're all okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not sorry for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, yep for the people, okay, okay, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get, basically, they all, they're like, oh, we're gonna go after Valentina, they're arguing about that, and they stepped forward to confront her, and then suddenly they're on a stage, and it's a press conference, and she's like, oh, she's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That asterisk is a new title.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the new Avengers.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's good, she's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just shook my head, I'm like, oh, she's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's fucking bevious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say before we get into, you know, the credits?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say is the message of the film?
[SPEAKER_03]: The message of this film is, wow, that's deep.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the message of this film play?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a deep film.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man, that's, that's, that's.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a few.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a few one of them I would say is that, you know, don't wait for someone to tell you you're a hero or give you permission to be a hero, just do the good things and people will see it, we saw that with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, yeah, obviously, what we've been talking about about how.
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe you know we always say hurt people hurt people but maybe hurt people can help other hurt people and if we I love to see a movie like this modeling that behavior.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think um it's not that hurt people can help other hurt people is that people can help people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's
[SPEAKER_03]: especially the final moment where they raise Bob is that, you know, sometimes you have to extend the hand to someone else, because they need you to.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you can recognize that that person needs you to, then you probably should do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: and I'm left with that thought that even John Walker deserves that hand.
[SPEAKER_03]: A character that I don't like, but I can understand why he needs that hug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you dislike more
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although you like the piece maker shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love the show, you know, I'm ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm ready for the shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's show him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, he's a terrible character.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a terrible person.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not a terrible character.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a terrible person.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting character.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just, I get, I get why they made the film in the way that they made this film.
[SPEAKER_03]: To show that we can be there for each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: you can be there for someone, because that's the easiest thing that you can do.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not about money, it's not about gifts, it's not about any other things that you think about when you say, I need to share somebody up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you don't need to share them up.
[SPEAKER_03]: We just need to be there for them.
[SPEAKER_03]: We just need to be there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's what I take from this film.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think that I am now probably rooting for this team, the most out of the teams that we've seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, that's a little unfair to compare because we haven't really seen the other teams fully form.
[SPEAKER_00]: But okay, that gets us into, let's talk about the credits.
[SPEAKER_00]: So first we get these meta news articles at the beginning of the credits where people are like, not my Avengers and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: um, just want to point out that the guinea pig appears on the bow of the boat in that Washington painting spoof.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we also have John Walker has now traded in the helmet that Ghost was making front of in the film for a buray, um, but he still has the bench shield.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that he still has the bench shield.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's a reminder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if he's going to get a new one.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a reminder.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that he's still carrying it around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then we get the first credit scene with a Lexi in the grocery store where he just wants the woman to notice him on the Weedys box.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought this is the fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that takes us to the second credit scene 14 months later.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the really meaty credit scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: We find out there is a space crisis.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we know this was actually directed the scene was directed by the
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if the space crisis, okay, will we see a fantastic four rocket show up, so that's, like, but will it also connect to the Marvels credit scene?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it space crisis is probably incursions, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's incursions.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's the fantastic four obviously in the ship.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's probably the ship at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: my speculation of the movie, yes, because from what we've seen in the trailers of the movie, of the fantastic form movie, the ship and the trailers in the ship and these credits are different.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I will say that we're seeing what they're coming to this universe at the end of their
[SPEAKER_03]: I got hyped, I think there's several things happening here, you know, fantastic for the thing with, you know, Sam and Bucky.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to come to a head.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you've listened to podcasts, you guys already know I am not a fan of Sam Wilson in the MCU.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am a huge fan of Sam Wilson, Captain America in the comic books.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the MCU version in the comic book versions are very different and how they viewed a world and how they interact with the world being black captains America's wearing the stars, spangled in stripes, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the flag of the United States as a uniform.
[SPEAKER_03]: They come from two very different.
[SPEAKER_03]: viewpoints.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I am expecting to see Bucky and Sam come to some sort of major disagreement about the Thunderbolts, because it can be argued that these are villains,
[SPEAKER_03]: These are not good people.
[SPEAKER_03]: They hurt people, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can see Sam Wilson and see you saying they should not be viewed as superheroes that should be on the raft, which is the superhuman jail.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where we talk, Red Hulk is there now, some other, soon.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and Bucky's not gonna go for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also, it is so weird, so, okay, Funky apparently, so they're called the new Avengers in Sam, is like, no, at the end of Captain America, he said I'm gonna start my new Avengers team.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I just have to say, I'm sure comic books Sam Wilson would never turn in Isaiah back to the police.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we already, we already know that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We already know that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't gotta say that, you don't say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's, I mean, you,
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me just get to talk about your solution.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me just say, MCU, Captain America's Jam Wilson, is the feds.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't trust the man.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't trust him.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't trust this, Sam Wilson.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, but that really, it does inform everything that I think about him at this point in time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure that that was like some, you know, political washing going back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, but it just, I can't, when I hear Bucky, who Bucky showed up in that movie to give him a little advice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you said, Bucky did not stick around to help him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chat with Sam did not go well, so these two have like broken up friendship, which I guess it was always tenuous to begin with, but yeah, yeah, it's I am immediately feeling like I'm on buckly side over Sam's not even knowing the Give me the Avengers with the Z
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want San Winston's Avengers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want the Avengers with the Z.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that line where Red Guardian's like, why do we need a jet?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why can't Bob just be sentry?
[SPEAKER_00]: We can write him in his face, and Yelena's like, this is why we are the Avengers with the Z. Oh, hello, Yelena.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the John's like, what do you think we're all going to like get on his back?
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you picturing this guy?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also, I love the fact the way they handle Bob's character, where he has a happy ending for this film, but But he can, he's not just, it's not just like superhero unlocked, because he can't become century without also being the void, at least yeah, that's what he fears.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a way, like, with, they had this problem with, um, with Captain Marvel where she's just so OP, they just have to constantly send her out into space all the time to explain why she's not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just all, instantly, every problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's also such an OP character, but now they have a really good reason why he can't just unleash that whenever he wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's sitting there like a dormant
[SPEAKER_00]: waiting probably to explode in a future movie, which could be great and probably will be terrible at the same time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think it's going to be terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just me personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all speculation, but doom is doom is doom.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bob just sitting around there, knowing that Bob has the void and the power of a billion billion-explaining sons, then he's going to use that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we already know where Doom is, where Doom is headed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this has got me this credit scene alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, first of all, the just the quality of the movie has me excited for the big for what comes in the MCU in the fact that people are lavishing praise on this film and the fact that's doing pretty well in the box office.
[SPEAKER_00]: I to hope it overtakes Captain America just.
[SPEAKER_00]: just to show, I just want them to see like, you know, what movies with thoughtful writing, that's the way to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can work.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't financially, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it has me excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: This credit scene has me excited for the fantastic four with that tease.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, we know that they're going to show up on Earth in 14 months.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has me excited for Doomsday for all the reasons that you're saying in secret wars and obviously we're going to get this new Avengers with versus Sam Wilson's Avengers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got me excited for the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any final thoughts about the movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, just some, I'm glad that we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: To deserve to be talked about, to deserve to be seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: entire production because this was a really good movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and our next marveled chatter on the public feed is probably going to be iron heart, which begins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm excited too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't really know the release schedule.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like there's going to be a three episode drop-up front, but there's only six episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if they're going to do the other three weekly or just drop all those three
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: How was weekly?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was enough with the Andor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then shortly on the tale of that, or yeah, it will be fantastic for that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: It comes out July 25th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and yeah, we're, hopefully now that things are winding down in the spring, we can do some of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just try and be extra as we've been talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still going to, I'm going to once we schedule it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you watched Craven?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We schedule it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We schedule first and then that gives me the motivation to watch this movie that I am admittedly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see where I rank it, but I'm dragging my feet for the help of the ones I want to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you know what part of my problem is with Craven?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it like, if I were super hero, I would be reverse Craven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would be having all the animals on my side to hunt people like Craven.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the mood?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll watch the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to watch more of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just don't get rink.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of rink.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things are definitely, who thankfully slowing down after that spring crush.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And DCU.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't forget you either.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Superman.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new trailer just came out.
[UNKNOWN]: Man.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I say, I'm excited, I know we're on the MCU right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's coming with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I know, but we told my MCU, but... Lardy, Lard.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Superman is my most anticipated movie, and it's the movie that absolutely has the most writing on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: More so than fantastic for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of pressure for this movie to be really damn good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything I've seen so far, yeah, surprises me in a new way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: July 10 is when that drops so rate before fantastic for and then in August is when we get peacemakers season two and those trailers have me excited to because it looks like there's going to be some.
[SPEAKER_00]: Connectivity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, with the first season and explaining this transition from the DCEU to the DCEU perhaps with these characters.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have eight episodes starting August 21st, and I think we're going to do full coverage for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we should.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have any thoughts about Thunderbolts or about anything else from Marvel, please send it to MCU at thelorhounds.com and we'll talk about that feedback and a future podcast and you can send DCU thoughts as well of course and we have
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Marvel forum and we have a DCU forum set up under franchises on the discord.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll find that link tree in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also check out our weekly.
[SPEAKER_00]: The last of us is almost wrapping up, Dr. Who is almost wrapping up the season 2s for both just started murder bots and we're just finishing up and or that was an all-hands-on-dex situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was great to hear you and I were supposed to be paired together in the end or but then what schedule got out and then everything got hokey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kevin's great.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's probably.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's it's my it's my favorite Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's my favorite Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's an extraordinarily high quality show and, yeah, hard look at fascism, but in a galaxy far far away map.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we'll check out our sinners episode that was I'm still getting nice compliments from people on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's so amazing to hear.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really loved hearing you're an Anthony's perspectives and and and a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of deep conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: The both these movies Thunderbolts and sinners really inspire deep conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Supercast some Patreon.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get ad free access to all this stuff plus all the bonus content for Andor and all the other shows that have seasoned passes plus the extra extras.
[SPEAKER_00]: like Levinsey's movie club every month.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to check out the link in the show notes for never mind the music, where music meets psychology, radioactive ramblings, they're doing, they're doing Fallout lore now, rings and rituals, properly Howard movie reviews will shift, dust moving into Dune,
[SPEAKER_00]: the Star Wars canon timeline podcast, those last two are with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all right, you're ready for some thank yous.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I went with in honor, I want my synth wave because I felt like the music for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: No idea what's coming, but in honor of century I went with Apollo.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the hopeful aftermath of the void.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, after they've come out of the void, thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron K. Teller, the thriller, Dork of the Ninjas do 71, Athena, Angelaya, Tina, let's do Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, and Radioactive Richard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to everyone who's listening, please do share this with other Thunderbolts fans and leave a nice review if you're up for it, whether you're listening that helps a whole lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to especially our subscribers, most of all, our highest tier of the lore masters, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O'H, Adam S Nancy M, Duke 71, Brian 863, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garrett C, Matthew M, Sarah M,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Adria.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, Final Thoughts Show?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha.
[SPEAKER_03]: T lagi.
[SPEAKER_03]: been giving you a break up and giving you some time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_03]: You see what sinners did?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know the vibes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Recast to Chala.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lower Hound's podcast is produced in published by the Lower Hounds.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
[SPEAKER_03]: just the Thunderbolts in the comics, I wanted just to clear that up really quickly, not named after, you know, um, that is Ross.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, the original first iteration of the Thunderbolts was, um, they were formed by Barry Zemo.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were actually our now villains, mm-hmm, okay,
[SPEAKER_03]: and other superheroes were presumed that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's been, there have been many iterations of the Thunderbolts throughout the Marvel Comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is just in line with that thought process, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, just is different from the first ones because the first ones, they were villains, they weren't anti heroes, they weren't anti heroes, they weren't they were just bad guys who got together and because of circumstances, would look that heroes later on and then the teams kept changing and they kept changing with different, you have wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: Red Hulk has Thunderbolts, Luke Cage and the Thunderbolts, you have Norman Osborn Thunderbolts, so you have a whole lot of different Thunderbolts teams that have a whole lot of different set of different rosters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I like this iteration.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I love a team of lovable anti-heroes or people like the route for the change, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I really like that theme
[SPEAKER_03]: It was the same thing for me because the vendors and comic books has the changing roster.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I've never had this thought that only these five people can be Avengers.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, in the MCU, I never believed that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm looking, I'm very much looking forward to having a new roster of Avengers because in the comics, the Avengers roster is always changing.
[SPEAKER_03]: The X-Men's roster always changes, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: So that they're doing that in the films to give different heroes some shine.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's really different characters.
[SPEAKER_03]: I should say some shine.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.