WEBVTT 00:02.410 --> 00:03.492 [SPEAKER_03]: Christian parenting. 00:07.838 --> 00:16.172 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Bible for Kids Podcast with your hosts, author Trisha Goyer, and author and co-creator of Veggie Tales, Mike Nuraki. 00:16.612 --> 00:24.204 [SPEAKER_02]: If instilling biblical values and kids is important to you, this podcast will give you the resources, wisdom, and hope to do just that. 00:24.725 --> 00:28.671 [SPEAKER_02]: Now let's join our hosts, Trisha, and Mike for this week's episode. 00:34.608 --> 00:36.972 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast. 00:37.172 --> 00:38.094 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Trisha Goyer. 00:38.514 --> 00:39.536 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Mike Naraki. 00:39.837 --> 00:44.083 [SPEAKER_03]: And today we're pleased to welcome author Champ Thornton on the podcast to talk about his new book. 00:44.484 --> 00:48.070 [SPEAKER_03]: It's good to be a boy, which I can totally get behind that title. 00:48.451 --> 00:49.833 [SPEAKER_03]: I agree, 100%. 00:49.893 --> 00:57.045 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to be a boy and like always we like to start every Bible for Kids Podcast with a Bible verse. 00:57.125 --> 00:57.966 [SPEAKER_00]: So Mike. 00:58.115 --> 01:02.501 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, today's verse is taken from 1 John 2 verses 3 through 6 of the NIV. 01:03.222 --> 01:05.906 [SPEAKER_03]: We know that we have come to know Him if we keep His commands. 01:06.227 --> 01:11.274 [SPEAKER_03]: Whoever says I know Him but does not do what He commands as a liar and the truth is not in that person. 01:11.714 --> 01:15.600 [SPEAKER_03]: But if anyone obeys His word, love for God is truly made complete in them. 01:16.141 --> 01:21.388 [SPEAKER_03]: This is how we know we are in Him, whoever claims to live in Him must live as Jesus did. 01:21.655 --> 01:22.577 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 01:22.597 --> 01:30.071 [SPEAKER_00]: So, champ Thorton and his wife Robin Living Delaware, they've been married since 1996 and enjoyed being parents of three teenage children. 01:30.552 --> 01:37.005 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a director of children and family resources at Crossway, overseeing children's books, acquisitions, and content development. 01:37.405 --> 01:43.377 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's the author of numerous books for kids and families, including the radical book for kids. 01:43.677 --> 01:44.478 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome, champ. 01:44.898 --> 01:46.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Trishug, thank you. 01:46.500 --> 01:47.702 [SPEAKER_01]: It's great to be on your show today. 01:48.242 --> 01:49.123 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, two things. 01:50.505 --> 01:52.548 [SPEAKER_03]: Happy 30th anniversary. 01:52.568 --> 01:55.451 [SPEAKER_03]: I see you're coming up on that pretty soon. 01:55.471 --> 01:56.652 [SPEAKER_01]: In May. 01:56.732 --> 01:58.735 [SPEAKER_01]: So just in a few months, it'll be three decades. 01:58.775 --> 01:59.616 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like where? 02:01.398 --> 02:02.139 [SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing. 02:02.159 --> 02:04.882 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my wife and I just celebrated, I saw that number. 02:05.142 --> 02:08.867 [SPEAKER_03]: We just celebrated our 30th last year in 1995 as when we got married. 02:09.227 --> 02:13.212 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. 02:13.192 --> 02:14.776 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, all right. 02:15.097 --> 02:16.560 [SPEAKER_03]: See you on up in the all the time. 02:16.620 --> 02:22.254 [SPEAKER_03]: First with the Della Wong and that's awesome. 02:22.294 --> 02:25.201 [SPEAKER_03]: And the next thing is I love the name champ. 02:25.241 --> 02:26.344 [SPEAKER_03]: And I got to know where that came from. 02:26.404 --> 02:30.795 [SPEAKER_03]: Was that like a birth name or were you like, was that a nickname that stuck? 02:31.282 --> 02:35.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, I know that no one's thinking, okay, it's his athletic ability. 02:36.313 --> 02:42.065 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's okay, well, right now, my real name is George and but Champs been, I've had it since I was an infant. 02:42.086 --> 02:51.045 [SPEAKER_01]: The story is my mom and dad had a little girl of year before I was born and she was premature and she lived a day or so and passed away. 02:51.025 --> 02:57.130 [SPEAKER_01]: about a year later, I come along and I'm also born premature and they didn't know if I was going to live. 02:57.911 --> 03:01.474 [SPEAKER_01]: And so my mom prayed and fasted and just sought the Lord to spare my life. 03:01.735 --> 03:03.456 [SPEAKER_01]: And the doctors were like, oh, he's a champ. 03:03.496 --> 03:04.017 [SPEAKER_01]: He'll make it. 03:05.818 --> 03:05.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 03:05.918 --> 03:06.959 [SPEAKER_01]: The next book. 03:06.979 --> 03:07.800 [SPEAKER_03]: That's wonderful. 03:07.840 --> 03:09.161 [SPEAKER_03]: That is such a cool story. 03:09.201 --> 03:14.546 [SPEAKER_03]: So that obviously, you were called, it wasn't like, you got started getting called that in third grade. 03:14.586 --> 03:17.629 [SPEAKER_03]: That was, you know, since you can remember having your name called. 03:18.029 --> 03:18.930 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's all I've done. 03:19.290 --> 03:20.151 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's amazing. 03:20.191 --> 03:21.032 [SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool. 03:21.400 --> 03:22.401 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that. 03:22.541 --> 03:22.661 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 03:23.021 --> 03:26.625 [SPEAKER_00]: So the book, well, first of all, the book title is amazing. 03:26.645 --> 03:28.086 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to be a boy. 03:28.106 --> 03:30.988 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to put that out there again if you don't remember from the intro. 03:31.008 --> 03:33.250 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just have to jump out there and ask this question. 03:33.731 --> 03:44.420 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear how this book came to be because in a world where gender is really defined, how did you approach writing a book about biblical manhood yet at a child's level? 03:44.480 --> 03:45.781 [SPEAKER_00]: And I read it and I love it. 03:46.362 --> 03:47.102 [SPEAKER_00]: And you do that. 03:47.643 --> 03:50.125 [SPEAKER_00]: It's biblical manhood, but yet at a child's level. 03:50.797 --> 04:07.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so how it came to be there's another book out there from the good book company called It's good to be a girl's by Jen Oshman and she treats that topic and has done so and did it beautifully And then the publisher came to me and said would you be willing to write the sequel? 04:07.030 --> 04:19.167 [SPEAKER_01]: and I've known Carl Lafferton, the vice president there for many years and I was honored that he would ask, and then I was privileged to give it a world, but I have to tell you about the title, you mentioned it's good to be a boy. 04:19.548 --> 04:21.591 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's good to be a girl. 04:21.671 --> 04:25.116 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the illiteration, it works great, you know, it's beautiful. 04:25.697 --> 04:36.632 [SPEAKER_01]: And so my daughter, who, obviously, she's kind of biased, 04:36.612 --> 04:38.816 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't bad to be a boy. 04:38.837 --> 04:44.147 [SPEAKER_01]: I was picking up what she was laying down, but the doctor wouldn't have any of that. 04:44.167 --> 04:46.452 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh, yeah. 04:46.712 --> 04:47.294 [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome. 04:47.534 --> 04:48.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:48.336 --> 04:53.406 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, it's just a, it's been a privilege to think through like, okay, how can you take, 04:53.386 --> 05:04.281 [SPEAKER_01]: A big topic, and in some places, you know, a controversial topic and communicated in a way that is, hopefully not to narrow, more narrow than the Bible. 05:04.341 --> 05:07.305 [SPEAKER_01]: In other ways, not more broad than the Bible. 05:07.325 --> 05:08.146 [SPEAKER_01]: What does the Bible say? 05:08.246 --> 05:09.147 [SPEAKER_01]: How can we communicate? 05:09.448 --> 05:13.153 [SPEAKER_01]: There's always a lot more, you can say, when you write for kids. 05:13.593 --> 05:17.959 [SPEAKER_01]: But I hope that at minimum, you can, nothing, not less. 05:18.580 --> 05:19.021 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 05:19.041 --> 05:19.362 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 05:19.382 --> 05:20.023 [SPEAKER_03]: No, absolutely. 05:20.064 --> 05:21.688 [SPEAKER_03]: And you have, you have sons. 05:22.129 --> 05:23.171 [SPEAKER_03]: Two sons is that right? 05:23.652 --> 05:24.053 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 05:24.113 --> 05:25.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Two sons and a girl. 05:25.316 --> 05:26.118 [SPEAKER_03]: And two sons and a girl. 05:26.138 --> 05:34.699 [SPEAKER_03]: So, so obviously you're a parent of both, you know, sons and daughters, but how has your journey of parenting boys shaped the themes of the book? 05:35.557 --> 05:38.906 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so actually it goes even back before we had kids. 05:39.186 --> 05:44.180 [SPEAKER_01]: So for the first number of years of marriage, I just had this view in my mind. 05:44.260 --> 05:52.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, you're, you're young and, you know, you just kind of, you know what you think you know, and yeah, and I kind of had this idea that. 05:52.381 --> 06:13.292 [SPEAKER_01]: I a division of labor like I had the things that I did as a husband and my wife had things that she did as the wife and you know, we kind of have a mutually agreed on you know I've got the bills in the trash in the yard in the house and she's got this and that and the other yeah, and then when I'm done if I get done first, then It's you know I get free time and that's right 06:13.272 --> 06:24.191 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I came to understand that, you know, in Genesis 2, the Lord comes to Adam and says, you're responsible to work the garden and to keep it. 06:24.511 --> 06:28.177 [SPEAKER_01]: And this whole idea of your responsibility doesn't mean you do it all. 06:28.638 --> 06:32.064 [SPEAKER_01]: It means that you have, you carry the burden of responsibility. 06:32.605 --> 06:32.665 [SPEAKER_01]: And 06:32.645 --> 06:38.653 [SPEAKER_01]: and I realize that in some ways, I'm responsible for all these things. 06:38.753 --> 06:40.856 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that that's my wife's and this is mine. 06:41.337 --> 06:53.674 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm responsible and my posture to her is one of gratitude for the way she's doing so much to help and to support and to encourage and 06:53.654 --> 07:14.211 [SPEAKER_01]: So, that was really pivotal in our marriage that I went from kind of being a 50-50 kind of relationship, although I never would have said it that way, to realizing that it's 100, 100, and that was a game changer for me, and really shapes the way I try to talk to my boys, my sons about leading and loving and caring. 07:14.191 --> 07:26.910 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean that, you know, you're the boss and, you know, you can, you know, kind of just have your way, it means that you're carrying the heavy end and that you're always feeling responsible because God has put that on you. 07:27.511 --> 07:30.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's been the key thing, I think. 07:30.315 --> 07:30.816 [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful. 07:31.488 --> 07:32.129 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 07:32.169 --> 07:33.351 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so true. 07:33.411 --> 07:35.714 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have 14 age at home. 07:35.814 --> 07:36.976 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, four kids at home. 07:37.337 --> 07:38.659 [SPEAKER_00]: We have 10 kids total. 07:39.179 --> 07:41.282 [SPEAKER_00]: Two of them are getting their driver's license. 07:41.302 --> 07:46.090 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, honey, you're responsible for teaching. 07:46.270 --> 07:48.794 [SPEAKER_00]: I love how you put it that way. 07:48.814 --> 07:53.160 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I do see that's a heavy burden, but also a blessing to a wife. 07:53.621 --> 07:54.542 [SPEAKER_00]: When... 07:54.522 --> 07:56.585 [SPEAKER_00]: that rules this taken on. 07:56.645 --> 07:57.386 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's so good. 07:58.187 --> 08:06.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now this book uses fun, action, oriented, refrain, like, hi, bye, praise God and shout for joy because it's good to be a boy. 08:06.537 --> 08:15.248 [SPEAKER_00]: So why wasn't it important for you to provide that positive and joyful vision, a boyhood, a boy that avoids kind of stereotypes? 08:16.477 --> 08:16.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 08:16.978 --> 08:18.280 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, it all goes back to God. 08:18.300 --> 08:19.001 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 08:19.162 --> 08:29.760 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like if if there's a God and if he's the creator of all things and he's the creator of gender and sex, then who are we to say that well, that's not important. 08:30.601 --> 08:32.224 [SPEAKER_01]: And so. 08:32.204 --> 08:34.167 [SPEAKER_01]: this is a cause for joyfulness. 08:34.547 --> 08:55.714 [SPEAKER_01]: We take joy in all the things that he's made in the way that he's made them and sure we live in a broken world and things are not as there they were intended to be in every single way but there's a resilient and abiding goodness in the things that he's made and we need to 08:55.694 --> 09:05.470 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when our kids were little, one way we wanted to serve them as parents is to always try to help them make connections between the world that God has made and the God who made it. 09:05.570 --> 09:16.207 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, here's our son, and he's threes climbing on the playground at the park and we're like, look at your arms, like, who made those strong arms, or wow, that was fast, buddy. 09:16.568 --> 09:18.451 [SPEAKER_01]: How you look, how you ran that faster. 09:18.812 --> 09:22.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Honey, the way you just interacted with that lady was so thoughtful. 09:22.778 --> 09:25.862 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're saying, where did that thoughtfulness come from? 09:25.982 --> 09:27.685 [SPEAKER_01]: Who gave you the ability to talk like that? 09:27.725 --> 09:30.268 [SPEAKER_01]: Who gave you those leg muscles and arm muscles? 09:30.949 --> 09:33.673 [SPEAKER_01]: And to point them back to the God who made it. 09:34.033 --> 09:42.344 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, the same old true with gender is that God made, male and female, both in His image. 09:43.025 --> 09:48.212 [SPEAKER_01]: And we need to not just acknowledge that and submit to that truth, but to rejoice in it. 09:48.614 --> 09:49.536 [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, man. 09:50.076 --> 09:50.397 [SPEAKER_03]: Amen. 09:50.437 --> 09:55.806 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it is time for our first break, so we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back on the Bible for kids. 09:59.853 --> 10:01.035 [SPEAKER_03]: Parenting is busy. 10:01.436 --> 10:03.900 [SPEAKER_03]: Chaos happens before the coffee finishes brewing. 10:04.441 --> 10:07.406 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why our friends at Christian Parenting created morning minute. 10:07.867 --> 10:11.172 [SPEAKER_03]: A concise, scripture-rooted daily email for busy parents. 10:11.773 --> 10:13.997 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a quick pause at the start of your day. 10:14.264 --> 10:27.014 [SPEAKER_00]: Each weekday morning, you'll get one verse to strengthen your spirit, one parenting insight granted in Christ's like wisdom, one short action item to guide your heart and your kids, and one resource to help you go deeper. 10:27.034 --> 10:32.627 [SPEAKER_03]: It takes just three minutes to read, but the encouragement lasts all day, and it's free. 10:33.046 --> 10:33.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't miss out! 10:33.867 --> 10:40.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Subscribe now at MorningMinute.org to get this quick encouragement in your inbox every weekday. 10:40.900 --> 10:43.164 [SPEAKER_00]: That's MorningMinute.org. 10:43.625 --> 10:50.277 [SPEAKER_00]: Or click the link in the show notes. 10:50.297 --> 10:55.847 [SPEAKER_00]: This easter experience the Resurrection story through a fresh and powerful perspective. 10:56.097 --> 11:06.190 [SPEAKER_03]: God's colorful Easter by noted biblical scholar Isama Kali invites children into the Easter story through the eyes of Simon of Syree, the man who carried Jesus' cross. 11:06.831 --> 11:14.281 [SPEAKER_03]: With breath-taking artwork and powerful storytelling, kids will learn God's plan of redemption and how it's meant for the whole world, including them. 11:14.902 --> 11:19.067 [SPEAKER_00]: God's colorful Easter is available now, wherever books are sold. 11:23.080 --> 11:30.107 [SPEAKER_00]: From the co-creator, bedsheetails, and the voice of Larry the cucumber, comes and all new Dead Sea Scrolls Adventure. 11:30.648 --> 11:42.059 [SPEAKER_00]: When Michael and Justin are forced to hide moral and pearls identities in a class presentation, they turn to AI to generate odd scrolls stand-ins, Uncle Merge, and Aunt Purge. 11:42.600 --> 11:48.566 [SPEAKER_00]: As things spiral out of control, the boys begin to wonder if the cost of lying is worth it. 11:49.046 --> 11:50.708 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't miss cyberskirls. 11:50.688 --> 11:57.154 [SPEAKER_00]: Book 13 in the Dead Sea Scrolls series, available now wherever books are sold. 12:03.479 --> 12:05.342 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Bible for kids. 12:05.422 --> 12:07.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Mike and I are here with Champ Thornton. 12:08.126 --> 12:08.426 [SPEAKER_03]: Champ. 12:08.626 --> 12:12.973 [SPEAKER_03]: This is such a great conversation just about the Bible and gender. 12:13.433 --> 12:18.601 [SPEAKER_03]: You feature in the book figures like Adam, Joseph, David, Ezra, and Yamaya. 12:19.081 --> 12:28.575 [SPEAKER_03]: When you were looking at who to choose for the book, you know, what were those, you know, kind of what went into thinking, you know, in terms of those being role models for boys. 12:29.230 --> 12:29.791 [SPEAKER_01]: That's great. 12:29.811 --> 12:43.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it's a good question because one of the kind of working definitions and definition isn't even the right word, but just a functional direction that I think is really helpful for boys to hear, like what manhood's all about is in this phrase. 12:44.146 --> 12:48.330 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to move toward people and problems in love and wisdom. 12:49.051 --> 12:57.600 [SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk more about that phrase, but then as I was thinking about what are biblical 12:57.580 --> 13:00.564 [SPEAKER_01]: And how do we see them doing it in different ways? 13:00.964 --> 13:06.711 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do we see people men in God's Word taking initiative and moving toward people in problems? 13:07.452 --> 13:09.835 [SPEAKER_01]: And so then their characters like Ezra. 13:09.875 --> 13:14.901 [SPEAKER_01]: But he used his mind and he was a scholar in God's Word and there's Nehemiah Nehemiah. 13:14.921 --> 13:20.748 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a leader and he's a leading people to put big rocks on top of big rocks and building the wall in 52 days. 13:20.848 --> 13:23.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we've got, you know, 13:24.091 --> 13:37.353 [SPEAKER_01]: whether it's Moses leading the people out of Israel or obviously Jesus Christ who definitely moved toward people and problems he came into this world and he loved well and led well and gave himself for others. 13:37.954 --> 13:41.981 [SPEAKER_01]: And we see that in its highest form on the cross as he laid down his life. 13:42.522 --> 13:47.230 [SPEAKER_01]: So wanting to show this 13:47.210 --> 13:50.319 [SPEAKER_01]: initiative, this thoughtfulness, this action. 13:50.339 --> 14:01.692 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a pastor for many years, and as I did marriage counseling, and I was talking to wives about their husbands and hearing the husbands reaction to their situation, 14:02.110 --> 14:29.586 [SPEAKER_01]: I noticed that maybe 10% of the cases the husbands had an underlying flaw and tendency of being overly aggressive, maybe controlling perhaps even borderline abusive, but 90% I would say of the cases the husbands when they were struggling, what they were really dealing with was inactivity and passivity and not moving toward, but moving away or being unaware in the vast majority of cases. 14:29.566 --> 14:38.700 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it rings true even in my own experience that we really want to be men who move toward people and problems in love and wisdom. 14:39.321 --> 14:40.382 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah. 14:40.402 --> 14:45.110 [SPEAKER_03]: And just, you know, that's one thing that my wife has helped me out with so much is just engaging. 14:45.971 --> 14:54.644 [SPEAKER_03]: That would be my tendency to sort of kind of lay back and avoid, but you know, just just saying, yeah, I need that from you to be engaged, you know, relationally with me. 14:54.664 --> 14:55.265 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 14:55.365 --> 14:57.328 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's super important. 14:57.730 --> 14:58.491 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so good. 14:58.611 --> 15:10.370 [SPEAKER_00]: You also feature historical figures like Eric Little, William Wilberforce, and others, and I was curious too, which for all you to those men probably is a similar answer, but personally I love Eric Little. 15:11.171 --> 15:11.972 [SPEAKER_00]: He's such an inspiration. 15:11.992 --> 15:19.885 [SPEAKER_00]: I know many people know him from the chance of fire movie, but many don't know about his faith and his experiences in World War II, which is my favorite time period. 15:19.905 --> 15:25.273 [SPEAKER_00]: So why did you pick those men out of so many others 15:25.405 --> 15:29.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I love biography, and these men are very special. 15:30.816 --> 15:44.225 [SPEAKER_01]: I've written some articles about Eric Little, in fact, I've got a biography of Eric Little coming out for middle grade readers, this August, and so I have done just a lot of research and thought about his life, and you are so correct. 15:44.345 --> 15:46.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, his life is 15:46.229 --> 15:46.890 [SPEAKER_01]: remarkable. 15:46.910 --> 15:53.885 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those lives that when you read it, you think, come on, he couldn't have been that amazing of a human being. 15:54.587 --> 16:04.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Even the people that hated his Christianity, that would kind of be his enemies in a sense, had the begrudgingly admit like they just couldn't hardly find a flaw in this person. 16:04.989 --> 16:06.212 [SPEAKER_01]: What are remarkable? 16:06.192 --> 16:07.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Oliver of Jesus. 16:08.175 --> 16:20.711 [SPEAKER_01]: And then William Wilburforce, I mean, just his initiative and Christianity bringing it into the political sphere into the public arena is just such a great example, and George Herbert is kind of the opposite. 16:20.771 --> 16:27.981 [SPEAKER_01]: He leaves the public sphere to go into a tiny pastorate in Remerton and just 16:27.961 --> 16:36.574 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we know him today, not for his pastoring as much as for writing poetry, which feels like not a very macho thing to do, right? 16:36.594 --> 16:41.521 [SPEAKER_01]: But unless it's a limerick, you know, what did he want to write exactly? 16:41.541 --> 16:53.378 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and then Francis Grimki, he and his wife worked together to fight prejudice and racial injustice while pointing people to Jesus, a faithful pastor in the Washington DC area for decades. 16:53.712 --> 16:54.453 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's great. 16:54.533 --> 16:56.416 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just kind of speaks to calling, too. 16:56.496 --> 17:07.090 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like not, it's not a, you know, same calling for everyone, God uses each of us for different purposes, you know, which is an important lesson, I think. 17:07.651 --> 17:11.656 [SPEAKER_03]: And the book emphasizes Jesus as our ultimate model. 17:12.237 --> 17:19.787 [SPEAKER_03]: And moments when boys feel weaker overwhelmed, how can parents point them back to Jesus as the source of their strength? 17:20.729 --> 17:22.232 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's such a great question. 17:22.873 --> 17:32.372 [SPEAKER_01]: What's really interesting is that Jesus doesn't just call us to follow him, sometimes Jesus has really hard things, like sell everything and follow me. 17:32.412 --> 17:38.164 [SPEAKER_01]: And then sometimes he just says, you know, your faith has made you whole. 17:38.144 --> 17:42.248 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's something that it feels more tender than then challenging, right? 17:42.448 --> 17:42.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 17:42.929 --> 17:48.355 [SPEAKER_01]: And we see kind of that mirrored even in the way that we parent us, our children. 17:49.155 --> 17:51.017 [SPEAKER_01]: We're always teaching, right, as parents. 17:51.057 --> 17:55.942 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a matter of like, I want to teach, it's like we're actually we're always teaching, you know, even when we don't think we are. 17:55.982 --> 17:59.826 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if, you know, by our absence, we're teaching, right? 18:00.427 --> 18:03.050 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can be a negative thing, but also a positive thing. 18:04.131 --> 18:06.193 [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of think sometimes that 18:07.220 --> 18:23.878 [SPEAKER_01]: on my, I'm a, I'm a parent really parenting on my best days when I'm responding to the challenges of Jesus when I'm obeying the commands of Jesus and I'm showing them the holiness of God and the goodness of God and I'm showing them all the right things, but when I lose my cool. 18:24.415 --> 18:27.621 [SPEAKER_01]: or I'm impatient, or I'm not engaging. 18:27.661 --> 18:32.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like, oh, I'm not my best parenting day, right? 18:32.129 --> 18:34.673 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess we'll just have to chalk that up. 18:34.693 --> 18:35.495 [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, don't remember. 18:36.396 --> 18:44.230 [SPEAKER_01]: But the reality is that in God's grace, if we approach our failures and our lapses, 18:44.210 --> 18:54.089 [SPEAKER_01]: with humility, and we are honest with our kids, and we can, how we have not, we, even our worst moments are teaching opportunities. 18:54.510 --> 18:58.358 [SPEAKER_01]: We can say, hey guys, I'm sorry, dad messed up. 18:58.378 --> 18:58.879 [SPEAKER_01]: I sinned. 18:59.159 --> 19:00.582 [SPEAKER_01]: I lost my cool. 19:00.562 --> 19:02.164 [SPEAKER_01]: and would you forgive me? 19:02.184 --> 19:03.687 [SPEAKER_01]: I've already asked Jesus to forgive me. 19:03.767 --> 19:04.608 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you forgive me? 19:05.529 --> 19:07.632 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I realized I was negligent. 19:07.732 --> 19:09.735 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't moving toward people and problems. 19:09.815 --> 19:10.737 [SPEAKER_01]: I was being selfish. 19:11.037 --> 19:11.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a sin. 19:12.179 --> 19:13.020 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you forgive me? 19:13.080 --> 19:14.642 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be a better example for you. 19:15.183 --> 19:19.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we can on our best days teach them certain things about God. 19:19.710 --> 19:24.797 [SPEAKER_01]: But even on our worst days, God and His kindness gives us opportunity to teach our children as well. 19:25.030 --> 19:33.302 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when we look at the life of Jesus, we see both his challenging us, and then also his grace when we're broken. 19:35.224 --> 19:35.765 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so good. 19:36.026 --> 19:38.048 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, do you have a copy of the book there? 19:38.149 --> 19:41.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't say if you can read some of it to us. 19:42.335 --> 19:44.177 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, he just so happens to have it. 19:44.197 --> 19:47.021 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so happy. 19:47.041 --> 19:48.203 [SPEAKER_01]: I got 25 copies here. 19:48.223 --> 19:49.705 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like it? 19:51.507 --> 19:52.488 [SPEAKER_01]: let's see here. 19:52.528 --> 19:56.052 [SPEAKER_01]: In the beginning, God made everything. 19:56.933 --> 19:57.634 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a worker. 19:57.694 --> 19:59.436 [SPEAKER_01]: He made the world. 19:59.977 --> 20:00.738 [SPEAKER_01]: He made a garden. 20:01.479 --> 20:03.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And he made Adam to take care of the garden. 20:04.282 --> 20:05.964 [SPEAKER_01]: The first man was a gardener. 20:06.665 --> 20:08.307 [SPEAKER_01]: He worked to make things grow. 20:08.327 --> 20:10.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And Adam was also a guard. 20:10.730 --> 20:13.633 [SPEAKER_01]: He worked to keep things safe. 20:14.643 --> 20:25.444 [SPEAKER_01]: our God made boys for working hard for growing life and keeping guard high five praise God and shout for joy because it's good to be a boy. 20:25.484 --> 20:28.711 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that you got a great voice too. 20:29.031 --> 20:33.360 [SPEAKER_03]: You should consider doing the audiobook for this as well. 20:33.340 --> 20:34.923 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the pass on along to the publisher. 20:34.943 --> 20:39.351 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, definitely tell him Mike says, yes, give me a thumbs up for that. 20:39.371 --> 20:40.373 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's that's so great. 20:40.473 --> 20:43.058 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you talk also in the book about service. 20:43.679 --> 20:46.404 [SPEAKER_03]: How God gives us the strength in which to serve. 20:46.665 --> 20:50.812 [SPEAKER_03]: How can parents actively create opportunities for their son to practice serving others? 20:51.454 --> 20:53.357 [SPEAKER_03]: Both inside and outside the family. 20:54.367 --> 20:56.690 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so one way is we model, right? 20:56.730 --> 21:06.723 [SPEAKER_01]: We're engaged in serving ourselves, and serving doesn't just kind of a t-shirt we put on for the day that says, hey, I'm serving, and we go out into a population that seems like more needy. 21:07.284 --> 21:17.598 [SPEAKER_01]: But when we see the pile of laundry on the sofa, or we see the dishes in the sink, we're serving, and then we're also encouraging our children like, all right, come serve with me. 21:17.658 --> 21:19.200 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's work on the dishes together. 21:19.220 --> 21:20.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's work on the laundry together. 21:20.742 --> 21:22.745 [SPEAKER_01]: hey let's go work in the yard together today. 21:23.666 --> 21:31.817 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like we always have opportunities to show that this isn't just something we do that special, but it's really part of the warp and roof of who we are as Christians. 21:31.837 --> 21:32.979 [SPEAKER_01]: Would Jesus came to serve? 21:33.440 --> 21:35.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we follow Jesus we serve as well. 21:36.364 --> 21:37.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And when they're little, I think it's fun. 21:38.126 --> 21:39.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Help me fold this laundry. 21:41.691 --> 21:44.936 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to go back to that phrase warp and woof. 21:45.116 --> 21:48.080 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you can you what's that? 21:48.100 --> 21:50.243 [SPEAKER_03]: I have not heard 21:50.510 --> 21:51.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. 21:51.251 --> 21:52.052 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 21:52.072 --> 21:52.173 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:52.193 --> 21:53.515 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it has to do with weaving. 21:53.635 --> 21:59.023 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the one direction is the warp and the other is the roof, but I Nice. 21:59.504 --> 21:59.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:59.624 --> 22:00.105 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 22:00.706 --> 22:01.106 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man. 22:01.347 --> 22:03.390 [SPEAKER_03]: Trisha, if you were more than wolf people, I have it. 22:03.831 --> 22:04.291 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 22:04.412 --> 22:05.093 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it. 22:05.113 --> 22:05.994 [SPEAKER_03]: It's very literative. 22:06.014 --> 22:06.815 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that sound. 22:06.835 --> 22:09.539 [SPEAKER_00]: So it might be a mic's next book. 22:09.560 --> 22:12.484 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see. 22:12.464 --> 22:16.429 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know that this is also a companion but called it's good to be a girl. 22:16.589 --> 22:21.555 [SPEAKER_00]: How do these two books work together to celebrate guys unique design for all children? 22:22.797 --> 22:31.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so God made men and women in his image and we celebrate the fact that he made girls to be girls and boys to be boys. 22:32.008 --> 22:34.331 [SPEAKER_01]: This is part of his design and we rejoice in that. 22:34.992 --> 22:40.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And the way the books work is they I really worked to model what I wrote. 22:40.038 --> 23:02.248 [SPEAKER_01]: uh as uh in the same categories and rhythms that the first book was written in so there's a few pages of exploring God's design from the beginning and the book of Genesis and then that shifts over to some kind of sticky, memorable, rhyming, uh summary of those truths and then it shifts gears to another section where we talk about characters from the Bible and then 23:02.228 --> 23:10.036 [SPEAKER_01]: sticky rhyming section that hopefully will lodge in my young minds about those characters and then we're going to move on to another section and another. 23:10.497 --> 23:15.002 [SPEAKER_01]: So we want to look at it holistically, we want to talk about characters from the Bible. 23:15.062 --> 23:20.187 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about who Jesus is and how He relates to whether it's femininity or masculinity. 23:20.548 --> 23:24.312 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to talk about people from church history that give a good examples. 23:24.872 --> 23:30.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also talk about just natures of calling of like there's all sorts of variety. 23:30.038 --> 23:32.500 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, in the, it's good to be a boy book. 23:32.560 --> 23:51.957 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be, you know, it's not just that guys are hunters and we play football and we drive, you know, race cars, but, you know, we can be gardeners and florists and librarians, as well as truck drivers and things that you would maybe think of as more, you know, macho kind of roles. 23:52.518 --> 23:58.763 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the books follow a lot of the same pattern, but in every case God willing we want to be pointing back to the truth of God's word. 23:59.620 --> 24:00.482 [SPEAKER_03]: Amen. 24:00.943 --> 24:16.060 [SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned you're working on Eric Little book right now for you said that a media like a mid grade reader Yeah, so is there any other things that you'd like to talk to in terms of what's next for you in the world of writing and ministry? 24:16.040 --> 24:18.725 [SPEAKER_01]: So as you mentioned, my day job, I work for Crossway. 24:18.765 --> 24:22.972 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a publisher based in Wheaton, Illinois, and work with all of our kids books and books for families. 24:23.032 --> 24:25.937 [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a biography series for 8 to 13 year olds. 24:25.997 --> 24:35.814 [SPEAKER_01]: And so several of books that I've written are coming out in that series, one on John Bunion, one on Eric Little, and the next year on CS Lewis. 24:36.435 --> 24:39.600 [SPEAKER_01]: And so those are exciting to have 24:39.580 --> 24:44.290 [SPEAKER_01]: written, be done, and now be in the process of seeing them come to publication. 24:44.370 --> 24:46.234 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, excited about that. 24:46.254 --> 24:46.735 [SPEAKER_03]: That's great. 24:46.896 --> 24:47.557 [SPEAKER_03]: That's great. 24:47.617 --> 24:50.523 [SPEAKER_03]: If you're like me, I love to have written. 24:53.470 --> 24:56.897 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, writing itself is kind of a pain, but man, what you do it, it's great. 24:56.877 --> 24:59.161 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I love the brightening part of it. 24:59.241 --> 25:04.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Just get away and be in your mind and see the, oh, anyway, I like brightening too. 25:05.030 --> 25:06.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And you like that part? 25:06.072 --> 25:06.713 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 25:06.913 --> 25:07.995 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's why you write so much. 25:08.316 --> 25:08.836 [SPEAKER_03]: That's true. 25:09.157 --> 25:11.220 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because I keep thinking it's my break from the kids. 25:11.841 --> 25:12.382 [SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be good. 25:12.462 --> 25:13.184 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be right now. 25:15.127 --> 25:17.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, champ, thanks so much for joining us today. 25:17.330 --> 25:23.340 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we go, can you share where listeners connect with you and learn more about it's good to be a boy? 25:23.742 --> 25:24.704 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks, Trisha. 25:24.724 --> 25:26.288 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been great to be with you today as well. 25:26.890 --> 25:33.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, in my website, it's champthornton.com or any place that they sell books. 25:33.406 --> 25:34.849 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see them listed there. 25:35.757 --> 25:36.538 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, champ. 25:36.699 --> 25:37.740 [SPEAKER_03]: Such a pleasure to talk with you. 25:37.760 --> 25:38.902 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for coming on. 25:39.363 --> 25:42.609 [SPEAKER_03]: Listeners, be sure to follow us on Facebook or Instagram at the Bible for Kids. 25:42.969 --> 25:45.454 [SPEAKER_03]: The Bible for Kids is now a 501C39 profit. 25:45.754 --> 25:49.621 [SPEAKER_03]: And we'd love to have you join us in our mission of reaching kids with a message of the Bible. 25:49.641 --> 25:53.628 [SPEAKER_03]: Visit thebibelforkids.com to explore our store, donate, or learn more today. 25:54.229 --> 25:54.930 [SPEAKER_03]: See you next time. 25:57.425 --> 26:01.891 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to the Bible for Kids Podcast with Trisha Goyer and Mike Nurekki. 26:02.252 --> 26:08.261 [SPEAKER_02]: Be sure to connect with the Bible for kids on Instagram, Facebook, and at thebibelforkids.com. 26:08.701 --> 26:13.388 [SPEAKER_02]: The Bible for Kids Podcast is powered by the Christian Parenting Podcast Network. 26:13.408 --> 26:15.932 [SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at ChristianParenting.org. 26:16.332 --> 26:27.128 [SPEAKER_02]: Our show is also available at waynation.com.