WEBVTT 00:12.113 --> 00:23.165 [SPEAKER_00]: In today's episode of Consider Before Consuming, we hear from Amanda Stanhope, who's story was recently featured in a report by CNN on drug facilitated sexual abuse. 00:23.865 --> 00:33.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Amanda shares her experience in a relationship where she began to experience memory loss, confusion, and physical symptoms she couldn't explain. 00:34.196 --> 00:37.800 [SPEAKER_00]: At one point believing she might be developing Alzheimer's. 00:37.780 --> 00:43.846 [SPEAKER_00]: over time, she came to understand that she had been being sexually assaulted while unconscious. 00:44.527 --> 00:57.741 [SPEAKER_00]: In this conversation, we talk through how the relationship began, what made the abuse so difficult to recognize in real time and the challenges she faced in seeking help and reporting what happened. 00:58.222 --> 01:02.286 [SPEAKER_00]: We also discuss how trauma can show up in the body. 01:02.266 --> 01:06.657 [SPEAKER_00]: and why awareness of this kind of abuse is so important. 01:07.198 --> 01:12.872 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode includes discussion of sexual abuse and trauma, so please take care while listening. 01:13.373 --> 01:18.165 [SPEAKER_00]: With that, let's jump into this episode of Consider Before Consuming. 01:19.630 --> 01:31.133 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're here today to talk about something that's incredibly sensitive and it takes a lot of courage to share, and so I want to thank you for being willing to share with us Amanda. 01:32.175 --> 01:37.065 [SPEAKER_01]: And to start, can I ask you what inspired you to begin sharing your story publicly? 01:37.855 --> 01:47.490 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, what inspired me, it was actually, um, Gacell Pelico, she's been my inspiration throughout. 01:48.471 --> 01:54.480 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was going through, um, the investigation when I saw her trial. 01:54.460 --> 02:03.950 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's honestly her strength that has given me the strength and courage to actually speak about this. 02:04.991 --> 02:11.498 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just had a feeling that there were many more cases. 02:12.819 --> 02:21.328 [SPEAKER_02]: And as I began starting to speak out, then a lot more women have come forward. 02:22.355 --> 02:28.102 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there's so much power in sharing a story and I want to commend you on your bravery. 02:28.182 --> 02:38.474 [SPEAKER_01]: For our listeners, just to give them a bit of context, this was a relationship where you later discovered that you were being drugged and assaulted over a period of time. 02:39.335 --> 02:43.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you walk us through how that relationship began and what it was like in the early days? 02:44.260 --> 02:46.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course, it was very 02:47.870 --> 02:49.673 [SPEAKER_02]: intense in the early days. 02:50.113 --> 02:51.595 [SPEAKER_02]: It was very fast. 02:53.698 --> 02:56.543 [SPEAKER_02]: I had never met anyone quite like him. 02:56.583 --> 03:03.032 [SPEAKER_02]: And I honestly believed that he was my soulmate. 03:03.933 --> 03:07.819 [SPEAKER_02]: He made me feel completely seen. 03:07.799 --> 03:19.827 [SPEAKER_02]: and everything was a whirlwind, it was fast and I think he'd moved in within certainly within a month or two. 03:20.248 --> 03:24.357 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just all, it just happened very, very quickly. 03:26.176 --> 03:34.990 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is the beginning of an experience that many can relate to who've been in similar situations unfortunately. 03:35.170 --> 03:35.851 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely. 03:36.993 --> 03:37.414 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 03:38.195 --> 03:43.944 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you describe when things first started to feel off or concerning in that relationship? 03:44.965 --> 03:51.956 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, every time we was going great, and I thought, you know, I've met my soul mate. 03:52.096 --> 03:53.719 [SPEAKER_02]: This is for life. 03:53.699 --> 04:14.880 [SPEAKER_02]: and then within a few months we started going out and doing things together and I started to see a side of him that I'd never seen before, which was jealousy, extreme jealousy. 04:14.860 --> 04:42.808 [SPEAKER_02]: The very first time was when I actually danced with someone we were having a drive as everyone did with friends and he literally pulled me off the dance floor and marched me outside and absolutely annihilated me on what did I think I was doing. 04:44.493 --> 04:51.516 [SPEAKER_02]: I was, yeah, that was the first time I actually felt quite traumatized by his behavior. 04:53.487 --> 04:54.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:54.248 --> 04:59.514 [SPEAKER_01]: And how did you make sense of that at the time where what did you notice that continued after that? 04:59.555 --> 05:00.976 [SPEAKER_01]: And how did you make sense of that? 05:01.096 --> 05:05.482 [SPEAKER_02]: That I was absolutely distraught. 05:05.702 --> 05:10.508 [SPEAKER_02]: This perfect man had turned into a monster. 05:12.210 --> 05:12.751 [SPEAKER_02]: Literally. 05:13.832 --> 05:15.074 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was horrified. 05:15.134 --> 05:17.757 [SPEAKER_02]: And my brain was kind of 05:17.737 --> 05:32.792 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this real, you know, it's got to be some explanation for this and so when he came back and the next day it was like nothing had happened. 05:32.772 --> 05:45.713 [SPEAKER_02]: and he was full of remorse, apologies, crying, begging to be given another chance that it would never happen again. 05:45.773 --> 05:54.527 [SPEAKER_02]: And he was back to person who are met and and I thought, 05:56.026 --> 06:23.400 [SPEAKER_02]: everything over, overwrote my kind of gut feeling that something was very wrong because I want to stick to be okay and I want to, the person I met back so I carried on and that was 06:24.325 --> 06:35.341 [SPEAKER_01]: and how did his response and that pattern affect, you know, your sense of reality or trust in yourself at the time? 06:35.381 --> 06:42.110 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I remember I started to go really downhill. 06:43.813 --> 06:51.143 [SPEAKER_02]: I even said to him at the time, 06:52.034 --> 07:08.400 [SPEAKER_02]: I was losing my confidence, my self esteem was on the floor, I'd gone from extremely independent to co-dependent in a very short space of time. 07:10.483 --> 07:17.755 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just, yeah, my whole sense of self and 07:20.418 --> 07:25.289 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that the body responds to trauma in different ways. 07:26.131 --> 07:28.556 [SPEAKER_01]: What were you experiencing physically during that time? 07:29.197 --> 07:39.861 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is where you could really tell, but obviously I didn't know at the time what to look for, but 07:39.841 --> 08:00.482 [SPEAKER_02]: I was starting to feel depressed, quite disassociated from everything so apart from feeling low I was beginning to have memory problems and I was extremely jumpy. 08:00.462 --> 08:15.565 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but the main one was, um, memory, um, I actually, I remember very clearly, um, I was with my youngest daughter and driving home from school. 08:15.925 --> 08:21.854 [SPEAKER_02]: We, I drove to the wrong house and parked outside and she said, why are we here? 08:22.635 --> 08:25.480 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, we're home and she said, we don't live here. 08:26.721 --> 08:29.085 [SPEAKER_02]: It was extreme, um, 08:30.314 --> 08:35.261 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I was developing Alzheimer's at the time. 08:35.621 --> 08:35.862 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:37.764 --> 08:39.987 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the trauma affecting your memory. 08:40.047 --> 08:42.230 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:42.431 --> 08:48.459 [SPEAKER_01]: As much as you're comfortable sharing, can you tell us a little bit about the abuse that you were experiencing during that time? 08:50.542 --> 08:54.567 [SPEAKER_02]: During that time, what was actually, 08:55.930 --> 08:56.571 [SPEAKER_02]: happening. 08:56.652 --> 09:01.483 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'd already been to the doctor as soon as I started feeling on well. 09:02.866 --> 09:07.737 [SPEAKER_02]: So by this point, I was on medication and to do presence. 09:07.797 --> 09:11.005 [SPEAKER_02]: They'd also give me sleeping tablets. 09:11.827 --> 09:12.488 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll put in. 09:13.818 --> 09:25.234 [SPEAKER_02]: because I just wasn't sleeping at all, so I was on these tablets and I was feeling absolutely awful with severe memory problems. 09:26.536 --> 09:37.412 [SPEAKER_02]: And then what started to happen is he would always take me for coffee in the morning after I dropped my daughter at school. 09:37.392 --> 09:45.559 [SPEAKER_02]: and we'd go and have a chat and it was nice and he started saying things like, um, well, you enjoyed yourself last night. 09:45.800 --> 09:48.027 [SPEAKER_02]: That was the main one. 09:49.272 --> 10:17.102 [SPEAKER_02]: and even now it, you know, that triggers me because I would sit there and think I don't know what you're talking about and he'd laugh and he found it amusing that I couldn't 10:21.723 --> 10:40.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Looking back, you mentioned you were seeing a physician who is prescribing some medications to help as you were navigating this time, what do you wish medical professionals had recognized or asked differently at that time to maybe get you help that that you needed at that time? 10:40.671 --> 10:47.781 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a very good question because I often think this and 10:47.761 --> 10:57.256 [SPEAKER_02]: I obviously went with these issues and they only looked at the presenting issues, they didn't ask me anything. 10:57.276 --> 11:15.085 [SPEAKER_02]: If I wish they'd asked how with things at home, how was my relationship? 11:16.583 --> 11:18.005 [SPEAKER_02]: at home, basically. 11:18.025 --> 11:25.633 [SPEAKER_02]: And also with the memory loss, they just jumped straight to Alzheimer's. 11:27.775 --> 11:41.089 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if they'd have investigated further because when I went to that test, they did 11:41.423 --> 11:47.389 [SPEAKER_02]: and my reflexes were so severe that he actually picked up on them. 11:48.070 --> 11:50.953 [SPEAKER_02]: Now that is PTSD. 11:52.695 --> 12:06.790 [SPEAKER_02]: But they missed that and they basically looked at my previous mental health and because I just 12:06.770 --> 12:22.439 [SPEAKER_02]: They just instantly said, well, it's, it's obviously mental health and we diagnose, we can't find anything wrong, so we diagnose pseudo dementia. 12:25.205 --> 12:29.132 [SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, that they didn't ask anything at all. 12:32.032 --> 12:44.558 [SPEAKER_01]: um was there a specific moment or series of moments where things started to click for you that what you were experiencing was abuse of what was actually feeling um this trauma? 12:45.220 --> 12:48.707 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah well as I say yes 12:48.687 --> 13:12.501 [SPEAKER_02]: I can honestly say I was in the relationship five years and it took me until I'd been out of it in therapy for six months to a year to understand the extent of the abuse that I'd suffered. 13:14.017 --> 13:23.014 [SPEAKER_02]: everything changed inside for me because of the level of abuse and the gaslighting. 13:23.956 --> 13:45.455 [SPEAKER_02]: it was driving me to, it got to a point where I was in so much mental agony and I felt so trapped that I just wanted this pain to stop and it got to a point where this one particular night when he'd been absolutely horrific. 13:45.595 --> 13:47.398 [SPEAKER_02]: I was on my knees 13:47.378 --> 13:56.467 [SPEAKER_02]: literally praying, thinking, I can't do this anymore, and I took more tablets than I should have. 13:57.989 --> 14:17.368 [SPEAKER_02]: To escape the pain, I just needed to not fill that pain, and it was that night when 14:18.918 --> 14:47.608 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, sorry, this is quite difficult, but I think it's really important because that there's a time when you're faced with seeing evil for the first time, and we are always obviously suicidal and taken an overdose of tablets, waiting for the ambulance, 14:49.208 --> 15:08.872 [SPEAKER_02]: and it was at that moment that everything I felt, everything kind of shutter and I think I felt myself fragment at that point and I thought this is really bad. 15:11.635 --> 15:12.556 [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't normal. 15:17.042 --> 15:18.203 [SPEAKER_02]: I think this 15:19.972 --> 15:43.954 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the first time I think for so many of us in experience like that is really we can only imagine you know the depth of of that pain and the depth of the trauma that that caused in the ongoing um you know threat to your safety and 15:44.373 --> 15:48.198 [SPEAKER_01]: As you moved forward from that moment, what did things look like for you? 15:49.740 --> 15:56.948 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, after that, I had some kind of nervous breakdown. 15:59.652 --> 16:03.937 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just, it was too much trauma. 16:04.297 --> 16:05.259 [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't cope. 16:06.540 --> 16:08.102 [SPEAKER_02]: And... 16:09.415 --> 16:34.258 [SPEAKER_02]: I had two daughters and I have two daughters and my eldest, she couldn't bear it, she couldn't bear to see so she left at that point and my dad passed away so it was a really, really awful time and the only person who was there was him. 16:35.943 --> 16:42.662 [SPEAKER_02]: And so he was my abuse there, but he was also my carer at that time. 16:44.279 --> 16:55.614 [SPEAKER_02]: It was it's so confusing and difficult to try and explain because he did all the right things then. 16:56.615 --> 17:12.717 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, looked after me and that's what causes so much kind of confusion and cognitive dissonance because I kept thinking it is a monster. 17:14.097 --> 17:15.801 [SPEAKER_02]: is a nice, is he good? 17:16.022 --> 17:25.624 [SPEAKER_02]: Does he mean it, you know, it was constant questioning, but something had changed inside that I knew. 17:25.644 --> 17:32.781 [SPEAKER_02]: I could never recover from what had happened and I had to get away. 17:34.077 --> 17:42.526 [SPEAKER_02]: But I knew it was going to take an awful lot of strength to be able to go through with that. 17:43.907 --> 18:00.945 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I spent the next, it took me another couple of years to try and build myself up to a level where I had some strength to be able to do this. 18:02.984 --> 18:13.062 [SPEAKER_01]: which is remarkable that you were able to build that strength in the environment that was still harming you actively throughout that time. 18:13.102 --> 18:27.287 [SPEAKER_01]: What gave you the courage to move forward and eventually report what was happening to you? 18:29.883 --> 18:50.710 [SPEAKER_02]: and I was actually under a psychiatrist and a care worker but after a couple of this it's he actually stopped that and I was basically begging in for saying I need support I need help with this. 18:52.867 --> 18:57.933 [SPEAKER_02]: but he wouldn't allow it, and they abuse just escalated. 19:00.557 --> 19:02.159 [SPEAKER_02]: I worked up to him doing it more. 19:03.601 --> 19:11.471 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just, and I, and I was getting stronger, I was getting inside, I was getting angrier. 19:13.433 --> 19:20.562 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how dare you do this when I've said, just not do it. 19:21.875 --> 19:35.438 [SPEAKER_02]: and then it got to a point where the abuse was so bad that I asked him to leave and I felt really strong at that point and he left quite happily. 19:35.458 --> 19:42.550 [SPEAKER_02]: I got my locks changed and I thought finally this is it. 19:43.897 --> 19:50.624 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it started the constant messaging, constant phone calls. 19:51.444 --> 19:54.848 [SPEAKER_02]: He turned up at my house in the middle of the night. 19:56.109 --> 20:09.482 [SPEAKER_02]: It was relentless crying, pleading, begging to go to therapy. 20:10.795 --> 20:14.099 [SPEAKER_02]: And I staged strong throughout that whole time. 20:15.020 --> 20:16.522 [SPEAKER_02]: It probably went on for a month. 20:18.084 --> 20:21.688 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he started saying, who's suicidal. 20:24.292 --> 20:30.279 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a bit that did it for me because I knew how that felt. 20:31.420 --> 20:32.702 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, 20:32.902 --> 20:44.464 [SPEAKER_02]: If he truly is, I can't ever forgive myself if anything happened to him, and I thought he obviously needs help, so... 20:45.693 --> 21:04.326 [SPEAKER_02]: I said he could stay on my sofa, I didn't want him there, my daughter didn't want him there, but we said he could have the sofa and I helped him to get doctor's appointments, mental health support. 21:04.306 --> 21:26.112 [SPEAKER_02]: in a crisis just so my conscience was ease that he would be okay and to support him to look for somewhere to live and he'd been there a week and on the final night he 21:27.442 --> 21:39.597 [SPEAKER_02]: It's come on to me who's trying to kiss and I said, no, I absolutely know, and he said, okay. 21:40.959 --> 21:56.098 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I woke up and he was raping me again, and this time I knew a million percent 21:56.956 --> 22:03.471 [SPEAKER_02]: All the other times he'd gaslit me into thinking I was on too much medication. 22:03.491 --> 22:11.910 [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't remember it didn't happen, but this time... 22:13.747 --> 22:15.990 [SPEAKER_02]: I clearly said no. 22:17.392 --> 22:42.724 [SPEAKER_02]: We weren't together and I knew and that was the thing that gave me the courage to finally get him out of the house and with the support of my brother I told 22:44.206 --> 22:44.987 [SPEAKER_02]: and so I did. 22:47.711 --> 22:51.297 [SPEAKER_01]: What was that process like to review evidence with the police? 22:51.938 --> 23:03.616 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, um, I don't know if anyone will be able to relate to this because I was still trauma bonded at the time. 23:03.636 --> 23:10.146 [SPEAKER_02]: So even though I had to do it, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. 23:11.678 --> 23:30.632 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt guilty, I remember even, I was telling the police the couple of times I woke up and remembered because in my mind they were the rapes. 23:31.338 --> 23:39.746 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even realize the rest, or that it was Ray, but I was that confused. 23:42.289 --> 23:59.286 [SPEAKER_02]: But I remember saying to the police, I think he needs help, will he be okay, can you help him? 24:01.628 --> 24:15.182 [SPEAKER_02]: been abused because I was so kind of dissociated from it and I was so traumatized that it hadn't even registered what had happened. 24:17.575 --> 24:25.706 [SPEAKER_01]: And for any of our listeners who are unfamiliar with the term trauma bond, that essentially means that you are bonded to your abuser. 24:26.307 --> 24:37.662 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you have this cognitive dissidence of kind of knowing two different people, and the good things are very good, and then your gas slid out of understanding the bad things, it's very confusing. 24:38.524 --> 24:46.114 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it makes, I think, perfect sense that that you would not even realize 24:46.094 --> 25:01.095 [SPEAKER_01]: but also it's very common to be in that situation and also be, you know, feeling that guilt or feeling like you need to get them the help, especially after they've weaponized something like being suicidal or something like that. 25:01.175 --> 25:13.232 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that can be very, very confusing and I can only imagine what going through that with the police really was like for you. 25:13.583 --> 25:19.890 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you wish people understood about the barriers that survivors face when trying to report this kind of abuse? 25:22.413 --> 25:35.828 [SPEAKER_02]: I experienced, so when I reported, I was completely traumatized and... 25:38.187 --> 25:56.888 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of expected support care, I didn't even question would I be believed or not because obviously this has happened and I'm reporting it and 25:58.252 --> 26:15.703 [SPEAKER_02]: What I was actually faced with shocked me to the core and caused secondary trauma and it was the way people kind of treated me after I reported it. 26:15.683 --> 26:36.612 [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't allowed to discuss anything in the investigation, so I could only speak to a couple of people and that they knew something was wrong and I had to say I've been abused, I couldn't go into detail. 26:38.245 --> 26:57.402 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was instantly kind of ostracized, I was dismissed, I was at worst everybody in the friend group they supported the abuser. 26:58.529 --> 27:16.302 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just that the trauma inflicted by people, even the police to some extent, because I think they struggle to understand the dynamics of coercive control. 27:17.598 --> 27:44.213 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the only supportive people were my family, my therapist in the end, because I was just shocked at, and if people could only understand that for some reason we live in a 27:45.830 --> 27:56.835 [SPEAKER_02]: which is just horrendous, and I didn't realise until I'd gone through it personally, but when people are reporting this. 27:57.254 --> 27:57.915 [SPEAKER_02]: trauma. 27:57.955 --> 27:59.117 [SPEAKER_02]: There's this crime. 28:00.199 --> 28:06.710 [SPEAKER_02]: What they need is for you to just hear them to accept. 28:07.952 --> 28:14.162 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the truth, to support them and to care. 28:15.284 --> 28:21.034 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, I had the exact opposite and it 28:22.516 --> 28:34.893 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it made me isolate for a very, very long time, because I couldn't even face anyone because of how cruel people had been. 28:38.498 --> 28:40.901 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry that you had to experience that. 28:41.983 --> 28:45.267 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think it's it's 28:46.613 --> 29:11.153 [SPEAKER_01]: devastating to see for so many survivors of abuse where you didn't do anything wrong yet you're the one who ends up traumatized and isolated and not believed and with trauma and kind of the collateral damage right of of someone else's choices and 29:12.668 --> 29:41.595 [SPEAKER_01]: I, again, am so sorry that you had to experience this and I, and I also want to thank you again for your courage and being willing to share your story because it is something that so many go through experiences and isolation, experiences of abuse and, in isolation and to know, they're not the only ones who've experienced something like this and that there are paths forward to get resources and get help is so important and so powerful. 29:41.575 --> 29:51.710 [SPEAKER_01]: you shared your story or your story, I should say, was part of reporting by CNN, highlighting how common drug facilitated sexual abuse can be. 29:51.770 --> 29:56.818 [SPEAKER_01]: And for anyone who hasn't read that piece, can you help us understand how common that is? 29:56.838 --> 29:59.942 [SPEAKER_02]: It is. 30:01.264 --> 30:05.811 [SPEAKER_02]: Since I first started to speak out, 30:07.867 --> 30:20.481 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not exaggerating when I say hundreds of women approach me in isolation, in silence, saying it happens to me. 30:21.322 --> 30:37.620 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when CNN, when I spoke to them about it, they told me about their investigation 30:39.102 --> 30:48.353 [SPEAKER_02]: men were actually on one particular website, there's a section called I think it's called sleep porn. 30:49.614 --> 30:58.925 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's like 20,000 videos of women asleep. 30:59.966 --> 31:00.807 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, 31:01.867 --> 31:14.239 [SPEAKER_02]: What they're actually doing then is chatting towards a man about how they drug and rape their wives and 31:15.215 --> 31:40.294 [SPEAKER_02]: there are so many men actually asking questions how to do it and they're all giving tips they're saying the medication to use and they mention zalpedem which is a prescription medication and they're saying what to do, how to do it, 31:40.274 --> 31:46.648 [SPEAKER_02]: And then there are men commenting saying I really want to try this with my wife, with my partner. 31:48.672 --> 31:58.553 [SPEAKER_02]: And when CNN told me about these sites, I was absolutely more than horrified. 31:59.647 --> 32:10.104 [SPEAKER_02]: so angry, and I just thought I said that they have to be stopped, and how can this be allowed? 32:11.205 --> 32:25.468 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think one of the sites, it had 62 million viewers for this, it's just horrific, 32:27.997 --> 32:38.821 [SPEAKER_01]: It is horrific and just a couple of things to clarify for anyone listening, you know, we hear things where people will say, well, if they're married, then it's not rape. 32:38.901 --> 32:42.709 [SPEAKER_01]: And if a person cannot consent, then it is rape. 32:42.909 --> 32:47.760 [SPEAKER_01]: If a person is not awake to consent, if they've been drugged, it is rape. 32:47.740 --> 33:05.175 [SPEAKER_01]: and having porn sites out there that are dedicated to this content is normalizing rape, and for many people who are consuming, as you said, millions, this content, they're perpetuating the harm and abuse of someone else. 33:06.505 --> 33:24.064 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why it's so important that we're having these conversations that your brave storytelling here and not of other women because this isn't something that any of us should stand for being a part of our society. 33:24.104 --> 33:36.478 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you think the normalization of this content might impact the way people view what's acceptable in their relationships or intimacy? 33:37.505 --> 33:59.260 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a very distorted view already that men have in relationships, a lot of them 34:00.488 --> 34:12.461 [SPEAKER_02]: kind of coercing, forcing, pressurizing on to their wives and unfortunately a lot of men think this way anyway. 34:13.182 --> 34:27.137 [SPEAKER_02]: So I did to that website that say, okay, this is how you can do it, so you can have that sex without her even knowing. 34:28.771 --> 34:36.522 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, oh, like, I can't even, it's not just normalizing it. 34:36.702 --> 34:39.406 [SPEAKER_02]: It's basically saying, it's okay. 34:39.987 --> 34:45.915 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, your distorted views are right and this is how you can do it or all in one go. 34:45.955 --> 34:58.373 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not helping women or men and the younger generation who might come across these videos because they might start to think, 34:59.028 --> 35:07.717 [SPEAKER_02]: This is normal, this is allowed that this is what you can do with your girlfriend or your wife and she'll never know. 35:07.777 --> 35:10.700 [SPEAKER_01]: It's feeling that entitlement. 35:11.961 --> 35:27.297 [SPEAKER_02]: That's sexual entitlement to other people in removing the human element of intimacy to a degree. 35:28.390 --> 35:31.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's not just objectifying them. 35:31.174 --> 35:34.678 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, yeah, allowing right. 35:36.000 --> 35:36.260 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:37.843 --> 35:47.155 [SPEAKER_01]: New, um, have shared that telling your story has been part of healing for you, connecting with these other women who have experienced something similar. 35:47.636 --> 35:53.183 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us what that healing process has been like for you and what sharing your story has been like for you? 35:54.344 --> 36:05.783 [SPEAKER_02]: It's as I say, I spent years in isolation, it's been three years now, I think, since I reported. 36:06.825 --> 36:13.737 [SPEAKER_02]: I must have spent two years in isolation in therapy trying to deal with this. 36:13.717 --> 36:23.112 [SPEAKER_02]: And then as I started to feel a bit better last year, I started to post on social media. 36:25.395 --> 36:41.901 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was actually I started by sharing tips on how things that helped me with my healing and recovery because I thought it might help others and they might be able to connect. 36:43.332 --> 37:04.159 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like groaning to a whole supportive community of it's include men as well as it's not just women but survivors who have gone through 37:05.438 --> 37:14.748 [SPEAKER_02]: They're really struggling, they might be going through an investigation or a court process. 37:15.308 --> 37:17.471 [SPEAKER_02]: They're completely cut off from everyone. 37:18.091 --> 37:23.277 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's gone through the same that they've lost all the people they thought were friends. 37:25.859 --> 37:31.345 [SPEAKER_02]: So they have no one. 37:31.325 --> 37:44.372 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a space where it makes me feel like I'm not alone and there are so many other people who have gone through this and it's helped them realize that they're not alone and 37:45.770 --> 38:08.402 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a really supportive, safe place where we can actually speak to each other and it's like a this sounds awful but it's like a bond that we all have that we don't want to have, but we do because we know how it feels. 38:08.382 --> 38:17.059 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's how it's helped in my healing and hopefully it's helping in there as well. 38:19.148 --> 38:25.378 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so important, as you mentioned, of course none of you would have ever wanted to experience any of these things. 38:26.280 --> 38:42.526 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so important to have a community of people who understands what you've been through because it is such a difficult experience that even those with the best empathy maybe just can't fully understand. 38:42.587 --> 38:45.932 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to have that community is so important. 38:45.912 --> 38:57.293 [SPEAKER_01]: For any of our survivors listening or someone who's maybe experiencing something similar right now, or has you mentioned you started by sharing some tips and tricks of things that helped you. 38:57.313 --> 39:00.259 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any of that you would share here today? 39:00.998 --> 39:18.467 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's um, therapy, therapy all the way that you have to go back to your childhood and deal with what made you so kind and nice to to someone and didn't see the red flags. 39:18.447 --> 39:20.350 [SPEAKER_02]: that's one. 39:21.071 --> 39:26.119 [SPEAKER_02]: But deal the one and it's the one that I say to absolutely everyone, it's self-love. 39:26.740 --> 39:30.125 [SPEAKER_02]: That is the biggest one. 39:30.506 --> 39:44.488 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's one thing that I did throughout my whole time trying to heal and I still do it now and I show people how to do it on 39:44.468 --> 40:01.668 [SPEAKER_02]: on my site says, mirror work, every single day, looking into the mirror, no matter how bad you feel and rarely see in yourself and telling yourself how much you love yourself, you have to do that. 40:02.308 --> 40:13.581 [SPEAKER_02]: Every single day, several times a day and pick out all the different things that you love about 40:13.561 --> 40:37.341 [SPEAKER_02]: kindness, it's not even about looks, it's what's in here and that's what got me to the point this point because I had no self-love and it was developing that so that is my biggest advice. 40:38.722 --> 40:39.964 [SPEAKER_01]: thank you for sharing that. 40:41.006 --> 40:46.975 [SPEAKER_01]: And what ways has this experience changed how you see relationships or trust others? 40:49.219 --> 41:00.257 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the part that still needs work because I hope by now I have developed the strongest of boundaries. 41:00.237 --> 41:25.350 [SPEAKER_02]: know all the red flags to go out into the world but at the same time I have no trust in people that and I don't know if that will ever ever come back I think my trust in the world and people has been completely shattered 41:26.613 --> 41:28.155 [SPEAKER_02]: even my daughter's the same. 41:29.117 --> 41:31.260 [SPEAKER_02]: They feel the same. 41:31.300 --> 41:39.311 [SPEAKER_02]: It's seeing this level of deceit and evil and betrayal. 41:40.633 --> 41:46.822 [SPEAKER_02]: It changes you completely and that innocence has gone. 41:47.863 --> 41:53.852 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I don't know that's one 41:55.925 --> 42:10.508 [SPEAKER_01]: And how do you develop a sense of safety or rebuild kind of safety and identity after everything you've been through with that lack of trust in systems are in the world around you? 42:11.939 --> 42:20.054 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very, very difficult and again, this leads to the isolation because you have no trust. 42:21.537 --> 42:34.622 [SPEAKER_02]: You find it very difficult to be around people and a lot of survivors say this, that they'd rather isolate than be exposed to potential danger. 42:35.277 --> 42:51.885 [SPEAKER_02]: in systems I have lost all trust completely, I was badly failed by the police, and they often, you know, I got a form of apology from them, but 42:51.865 --> 42:57.799 [SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't rebuild trust in a failing system. 43:00.365 --> 43:10.448 [SPEAKER_02]: It's very difficult to navigate the world and it's awful because it makes you feel that you have to do it alone. 43:11.525 --> 43:39.102 [SPEAKER_02]: I do it with my daughters and my animals, and it's really sad that it's come to that, because previously I loved people, but now it's very difficult. 43:40.786 --> 43:45.697 [SPEAKER_02]: It takes a lot, an awful lot. 43:45.717 --> 43:51.950 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it certainly have to be proven with actions now rather than than words, right? 43:53.774 --> 43:57.462 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, for so many people knowing that 43:58.910 --> 44:11.307 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, processing the trauma is hard work and that isolation is hard work and, you know, your entire identity shifting and your view of the world around you shifting is is hard work to navigate. 44:12.088 --> 44:26.588 [SPEAKER_01]: And for inner survivors who are thinking, well, you know, maybe it's better to stay in the difficult set of circumstances I'm in experiencing the abuse than pursue a future that also is difficult. 44:26.628 --> 44:28.090 [SPEAKER_01]: What would you say to them? 44:28.238 --> 44:28.899 [SPEAKER_02]: don't stay. 44:30.080 --> 44:31.441 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely don't stay. 44:32.823 --> 44:41.793 [SPEAKER_02]: It's even though this is hard and it has been the hardest journey of my life and it is for every survivor. 44:43.134 --> 44:52.204 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also the most transformational in 44:52.623 --> 44:55.469 [SPEAKER_02]: we didn't ask for this. 44:55.509 --> 45:14.547 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of makes you more spiritual and you start saying that the world differently and there's absolutely no way I would go back to being that person who was being 45:15.860 --> 45:28.701 [SPEAKER_02]: who accept it, no, no, it's better to, because you can find the support even if it's online. 45:29.623 --> 45:35.252 [SPEAKER_02]: There are other people who've been through it, can try and help as well. 45:36.093 --> 45:44.647 [SPEAKER_02]: You realise that you are more resilient and stronger than you ever believed about yourself. 45:45.729 --> 45:51.478 [SPEAKER_02]: And you've surprised yourself with just how incredible that you are. 45:52.440 --> 45:54.844 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, never stay. 45:57.052 --> 46:03.084 [SPEAKER_01]: And a reminder for any of our listeners as well, there are resources as Amanda mentioned that can help you. 46:03.104 --> 46:07.433 [SPEAKER_01]: We will include some links to some resources in the show notes as well. 46:08.615 --> 46:13.204 [SPEAKER_01]: Amanda, is there anything that you wanted to share today that we haven't spoken about yet? 46:14.703 --> 46:42.398 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to say thank you, really thank you because it's taken a long time for the people to actually want to listen and hear from a survivor's point of view, previously it's 46:42.378 --> 46:56.815 [SPEAKER_02]: to see what you're doing and to highlight especially these awful sites, these porn sites that are promoting the facilitating rape. 46:56.835 --> 47:08.149 [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to thank you for highlighting this because the more people that are aware, the better chance that they've got to 47:08.669 --> 47:16.592 [SPEAKER_02]: to see what's happening if it's happening to them, to save themselves or just that awareness is needed. 47:16.652 --> 47:19.962 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just want to thank you. 47:21.140 --> 47:26.586 [SPEAKER_01]: Well thank you so much Amanda and it's certainly something we wish we didn't have to do. 47:26.626 --> 47:44.785 [SPEAKER_01]: We are a non-profit that's been around now for 17 years and we certainly wish we didn't need to exist but it is because we believe that no one deserves to experience what you've experienced and what too many others have experienced and we will continue to fight. 47:44.765 --> 47:54.015 [SPEAKER_01]: to raise awareness, to bring attention to incredibly powerful stories like yours, and many others, and to 47:55.092 --> 47:57.135 [SPEAKER_01]: try to build a better world together. 47:57.295 --> 48:04.766 [SPEAKER_01]: A world that's free from abuse and sexual exploitation and the harm that so many are experiencing. 48:04.846 --> 48:12.697 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to thank you for again your courage to share your story at all that especially with us and with our listeners today. 48:12.737 --> 48:19.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to thank you for making time. 48:20.371 --> 48:32.446 [SPEAKER_01]: to have this conversation as many different times as you have now ended in as many different ways as you have knowing that it what it could take out of you to be willing to do that. 48:32.486 --> 48:33.267 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you. 48:34.349 --> 48:49.348 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm certain that our listeners will have learned something from this conversation and I hope it motivates each and every one of us to move forward a little bit more in this 48:49.328 --> 48:50.430 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely. 48:50.531 --> 49:02.217 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the reason why I do this it's there are a lot of good people in the world a lot of them are just not aware of them, of what's happening. 49:02.979 --> 49:05.785 [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you. 49:07.688 --> 49:23.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you and thank you to our listeners for for showing up and for listening to these stories and please remember to engage with our content to reach out to us if you need resources and it will continue to bring you this content. 49:23.894 --> 49:25.016 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much Amanda. 49:25.377 --> 49:25.958 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 49:26.318 --> 49:26.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 49:26.699 --> 49:27.300 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me. 49:30.773 --> 49:33.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining us on this episode of Consider Before Consuming. 49:34.097 --> 49:37.020 [SPEAKER_00]: Consider Before Consuming is brought to you by Fight The New Drug. 49:37.540 --> 49:54.479 [SPEAKER_00]: Fight The New Drug is a non-religious and a non-legislative organization that exists to provide individuals the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding pornography by raising awareness on its harmful effects using only science, facts, and personal accounts. 49:55.039 --> 49:58.283 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out the episode notes for resources mentioned in this episode. 49:58.263 --> 50:01.955 [SPEAKER_00]: If you find this podcast helpful, consider subscribing and leaving a review. 50:02.396 --> 50:03.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening. 50:04.041 --> 50:11.445 [SPEAKER_00]: We invite you to increase your self-awareness, look both ways, check your blind spots, and consider before consuming.