WEBVTT 00:00.655 --> 00:01.636 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Jamie Cochran. 00:01.917 --> 00:02.718 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Lake Babin. 00:02.738 --> 00:03.459 [SPEAKER_02]: Lead wind. 00:03.699 --> 00:05.201 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm extreme watershed podcast. 00:05.962 --> 00:10.328 [SPEAKER_02]: We're back with another episode of the lead wind podcast, and we have with us, JPDNL. 00:10.989 --> 00:17.337 [SPEAKER_02]: And this topic is something I hear from a lot of companies right now in how do we lead through change? 00:18.058 --> 00:20.121 [SPEAKER_02]: This change management topic is a big one. 00:20.161 --> 00:27.831 [SPEAKER_02]: And Ed Ischlan front, what do we say when it comes to the extreme ownership principles and how it relates to helping your team navigate change? 00:28.292 --> 00:29.734 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody likes change. 00:29.967 --> 00:32.853 [SPEAKER_01]: And we talk about this in excellent front, no one likes change. 00:33.415 --> 00:37.884 [SPEAKER_01]: Jason Gardner retired master chief, who's one of our leadership instructors. 00:38.746 --> 00:45.040 [SPEAKER_01]: And he reminded me that actually there is one person that likes change and that is the person that came up with a change. 00:45.020 --> 00:46.982 [SPEAKER_01]: If you came up with a change, it makes total sense. 00:47.262 --> 00:50.346 [SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly what we should do, but everyone else hates the change, right? 00:50.386 --> 00:52.168 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's just human nature. 00:52.228 --> 00:59.516 [SPEAKER_01]: We get accustomed to doing things a certain way and we know how to do them that way and more comfortable doing things that way. 01:00.096 --> 01:01.398 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't want to change. 01:01.498 --> 01:02.619 [SPEAKER_01]: We resist change. 01:02.999 --> 01:04.701 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a natural human tendency. 01:04.841 --> 01:06.903 [SPEAKER_01]: All of us do to resist change. 01:07.684 --> 01:09.586 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a challenging thing. 01:09.606 --> 01:11.388 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think recognizing that it's a challenging thing. 01:11.408 --> 01:14.031 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you come up with a new idea, 01:14.551 --> 01:19.298 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter how good the idea is, there's gonna be some resistance to the idea. 01:19.759 --> 01:21.622 [SPEAKER_01]: This sometimes perplexes leaders. 01:21.682 --> 01:26.950 [SPEAKER_01]: It is perplexed me before like, hey, we're gonna make this change it's gonna be great for everybody and then I know people don't like that. 01:27.110 --> 01:29.454 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, wait, what, I wasn't expecting that. 01:29.494 --> 01:41.031 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you have to have a real estate expectation that people are going to resist the change and that's gonna enable you to, I think, more effectively, communicate why the change is necessary, how it's going to benefit the team. 01:41.011 --> 01:53.311 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to, you're going to have to be default aggressive to do that because you're going to have to put in some time and effort, it's not just a single conversation or a single presentation or an email that you sent out to explain it, you're going to have to follow with people. 01:53.431 --> 01:58.299 [SPEAKER_01]: It takes people a while to get on board with a change and why that change is necessary. 01:59.101 --> 02:07.795 [SPEAKER_01]: And so just start with that expectation and I think that can at least set people up for success when they're trying to communicate a change. 02:08.078 --> 02:12.785 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we shouldn't anticipate that change is going to create a lot of uncertainty for people. 02:13.205 --> 02:32.753 [SPEAKER_02]: So our role as leaders is to create the clarity, to ensure that as we go through this change, we're communicating at the highest level and creating clarity for our team to help navigate the uncertainty in the negative emotions that's oftentimes associated with change. 02:33.475 --> 02:40.785 [SPEAKER_00]: what's going to be predicted, we know people do not enjoy change. 02:40.934 --> 02:44.338 [SPEAKER_00]: here in San Diego, there's a restaurant I've been going to for 24 years. 02:44.538 --> 02:45.379 [SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love it. 02:45.439 --> 02:57.372 [SPEAKER_00]: I brought all of you guys there before it's, I mean, it's, I mean, 24 years of like legit memories going through buds, like going there and eating with all my teammates, pre-deployment dinners there, you know, all these things were the years. 02:57.852 --> 02:59.654 [SPEAKER_00]: Then a few years ago, I came out here. 02:59.774 --> 03:01.456 [SPEAKER_00]: My default was like, cool, rental car. 03:02.017 --> 03:02.818 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a little bit of time. 03:03.058 --> 03:03.759 [SPEAKER_00]: I had straight there. 03:04.219 --> 03:06.081 [SPEAKER_00]: And I walked in and it looked different. 03:06.314 --> 03:13.862 [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that something had changed and I was not happy because I did not want my favorite food, my dish to change. 03:14.743 --> 03:20.469 [SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that the owner that I've known for 20 plus years was not there. 03:21.310 --> 03:33.182 [SPEAKER_00]: And I started asking some questions about, oh, she sold the business and I immediately got upset on the inside because I was frustrated because I did not want that change. 03:33.162 --> 03:35.568 [SPEAKER_00]: They said, oh, everything's everything's going to be the same. 03:36.209 --> 03:37.673 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I'll be the judge of that. 03:38.535 --> 03:39.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Smiling at the guy. 03:39.838 --> 03:42.805 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't being rude about that, but a smiling at the guy. 03:42.825 --> 03:44.309 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I'll be the judge of that smiling. 03:44.770 --> 03:48.960 [SPEAKER_00]: And I explained to the guy, as I had been coming here since 2001. 03:49.312 --> 03:54.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, you know, we're just like talking through stuff and everything and he's like, oh, that's awesome. 03:54.240 --> 04:03.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he sat down and then like how we kept on the, you know, the old chef and everything and they brought out my dish and it was not the dish I had been ordering for 20 plus years because there was this change. 04:04.777 --> 04:10.045 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I recognize I was frustrated with that over, it's a simple thing. 04:10.166 --> 04:14.172 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a food and it's a dish and it's a restaurant and if, 04:14.152 --> 04:15.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get frustrated over that. 04:16.236 --> 04:28.877 [SPEAKER_00]: What type of frustration it is, the people that I work with or I work for, or that work for me, when I'm implementing change, that has illegitimate effect over their life, legitimate effect over their life. 04:29.217 --> 04:33.905 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have to go into this with the understanding, there could be some frustrations. 04:34.466 --> 04:37.431 [SPEAKER_00]: There is absolutely going to be some emotions. 04:37.572 --> 04:40.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if I think about that ahead of time, 04:40.156 --> 04:48.187 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do a little bit of planning, a little bit of maybe role-playing, like I call Dave and Jamie and I'm like, hey, I'm rolling out this new plan with the team. 04:48.548 --> 04:50.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's some of the things I expect. 04:50.330 --> 04:53.234 [SPEAKER_00]: The pushback, the frustrations, could you guys help me navigate that? 04:53.715 --> 04:55.497 [SPEAKER_00]: That way, I go into it more prepared. 04:56.038 --> 05:00.985 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be emotional when they push back, because that's the worst thing I could do as a leader. 05:01.045 --> 05:03.469 [SPEAKER_00]: If they get frustrated and mad, then I get frustrated and mad. 05:03.649 --> 05:07.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm ruining the relationship, the environment. 05:07.274 --> 05:10.840 [SPEAKER_00]: And this gives me the opportunity to go into it and actually take pre-emptive ownership. 05:11.441 --> 05:26.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Where I can say, hey, you know, I know there's going to be some concerns, you know, from your perspective, when I was in that position before, you know, share, you know, Jamie we've talked about this reflecting diminishing, you know, being able to, you know, connect with your people and understand like, hey, I understand what you're going through. 05:27.006 --> 05:27.807 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been there before. 05:28.128 --> 05:32.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I found, and being able to help them navigate it. 05:32.435 --> 05:35.844 [SPEAKER_00]: It allows you to help them slowly shift their mindset as well. 05:36.185 --> 05:39.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the big thing is, like, don't make some massive change. 05:39.975 --> 05:42.241 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you make small iterative steps along the way as well? 05:42.381 --> 05:45.128 [SPEAKER_00]: And that helps ease people into that change as well. 05:45.260 --> 05:53.010 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's our responsibility as a leader is to navigate change in an effective way to help mitigate the potential negative consequences. 05:53.111 --> 05:57.236 [SPEAKER_02]: And the first thing we have to do is leaders communicate early, communicate often. 05:57.276 --> 06:08.291 [SPEAKER_02]: And whenever possible when we have to implement change, do your best to engage the people that it's going to impact early in that process, allow them to be a part of the creation of that change. 06:08.651 --> 06:10.314 [SPEAKER_02]: So that they feel a little more ownership of it. 06:10.334 --> 06:12.837 [SPEAKER_02]: They feel like they're included in those discussions. 06:12.817 --> 06:22.016 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to be more easily bought in on the new idea, and the new change is coming, and then the other thing I would recommend is tell your people the truth, tell them the truth. 06:22.477 --> 06:29.691 [SPEAKER_02]: I think sometimes we avoid the truth of the situation, but oftentimes change is being implemented because something is going wrong. 06:30.112 --> 06:31.335 [SPEAKER_02]: Something is not going right. 06:31.375 --> 06:33.880 [SPEAKER_02]: We are not moving in the direction that we need to go. 06:33.860 --> 06:41.350 [SPEAKER_02]: and so the change needs to be instituted in order to benefit our people, to benefit our team, to allow us to accomplish the mission. 06:41.891 --> 06:45.456 [SPEAKER_02]: And if those things are the truth of the situation, tell your people the truth. 06:45.896 --> 06:51.223 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we've got to make these changes because the company can't continue in the current status quo. 06:51.604 --> 06:56.290 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we've got to make these changes because what we're doing right now is ineffective and it's not working. 06:56.270 --> 06:57.271 [SPEAKER_02]: tell your people the truth. 06:57.572 --> 07:01.557 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the only other tool that I'd recommend is what you just said, which is reflected in the ministry. 07:01.757 --> 07:07.625 [SPEAKER_02]: Understand how the expectation as we talked about in the last episode that people are going to be resistant to that change. 07:08.025 --> 07:15.815 [SPEAKER_02]: And if we have that right expectation, we can reflect that emotion, diminish it, and get people's mind around, hey, this change needs to happen. 07:15.835 --> 07:17.417 [SPEAKER_02]: And here's the ultimate way. 07:17.397 --> 07:20.403 [SPEAKER_02]: benefit to you by implementing this change. 07:20.823 --> 07:36.292 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think if we can do that and then give people the time and the space to have those emotions and to go through what people go through when changes being implemented, we can get to a place where people can get on board with the change and be not only on board with it, but advocates of it. 07:36.633 --> 07:40.941 [SPEAKER_00]: What I like about reflected the 07:41.242 --> 07:50.400 [SPEAKER_00]: you're acknowledging their frustrations, but you're just helping kind of allow them to see, it's not as big as maybe they thought it was. 07:50.901 --> 07:56.331 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if we reflecting dismiss, that's a whole other issue that you're creating in the relationship. 07:56.311 --> 08:13.360 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know life has helped me do this since I was 19 years old going through SKT with him and Seth, I get fired up about stuff and they're always really good at like listening to me and then asking me some earnest questions and then ask me earnest questions about my frustrations. 08:13.560 --> 08:18.909 [SPEAKER_00]: I would recognize, oh, okay, hey, this new gear, this new tech, like this new way of doing things. 08:19.751 --> 08:21.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's actually not as bad as it's going to be. 08:21.674 --> 08:22.335 [SPEAKER_02]: better for you. 08:22.575 --> 08:24.799 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually going to be a lot better for you. 08:24.899 --> 08:26.863 [SPEAKER_00]: You knucklehead or my Roger that sir. 08:28.065 --> 08:30.689 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's the classic team guy response right. 08:30.709 --> 08:31.210 [SPEAKER_01]: The seal teams. 08:31.290 --> 08:32.612 [SPEAKER_01]: What this is terrible. 08:32.672 --> 08:34.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Every one's kind of die. 08:34.095 --> 08:35.677 [SPEAKER_01]: This is it's like the worst case. 08:35.697 --> 08:36.879 [SPEAKER_02]: What's the thing you guys say? 08:36.899 --> 08:38.983 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is like everything's broke and nothing works. 08:39.043 --> 08:39.464 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:39.484 --> 08:40.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything sucks. 08:40.205 --> 08:40.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing works. 08:41.607 --> 08:41.707 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:41.727 --> 08:42.689 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, why don't we try this way? 08:42.729 --> 08:43.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything sucks. 08:43.430 --> 08:43.991 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing works. 08:44.071 --> 08:47.597 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have like the best gear and technology and budgets. 08:47.577 --> 08:55.496 [SPEAKER_01]: But no, I think this is, here's an example of recently, so I was just working with these group of leaders, really successful company. 08:55.817 --> 09:05.400 [SPEAKER_01]: They manufactured this one product and that has driven like 70% of their revenue is this one product and they were launching some new products. 09:05.380 --> 09:12.190 [SPEAKER_01]: And the executive leadership team, I was at this off site with their senior leaders and running some leadership training for them. 09:12.751 --> 09:16.457 [SPEAKER_01]: And the executive leadership team was super excited to announce these new products. 09:16.477 --> 09:17.639 [SPEAKER_01]: They thought this is awesome. 09:17.699 --> 09:18.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the opportunities. 09:18.840 --> 09:19.902 [SPEAKER_01]: This is great. 09:19.982 --> 09:23.187 [SPEAKER_01]: We can move into these new markets and take some market share. 09:23.207 --> 09:25.110 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be awesome for everybody. 09:25.090 --> 09:32.204 [SPEAKER_01]: that was not the reaction from some of the leaders that we're not involved in the decision right to make that to make that change. 09:32.264 --> 09:46.812 [SPEAKER_01]: So they immediately start, well, what about this and what about this and we don't have the resource for this and we need, you know, we're going to have to hire a bunch more people here and bring in, you know, these different teams and how we're going to market this stuff and, you know, that's going to take away from our core product and all these things that they raised. 09:47.230 --> 09:55.826 [SPEAKER_01]: all valid questions, but what it showed to me, and I think it really caught, it caught things exactly with leadership team off guard because they weren't expecting that. 09:56.427 --> 09:58.812 [SPEAKER_01]: The reality is, again, people are gonna resist change. 09:58.832 --> 09:59.694 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to expect that. 10:00.215 --> 10:04.142 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the ways that I think you can minimize that, 10:04.392 --> 10:05.293 [SPEAKER_01]: give people ownership. 10:05.654 --> 10:13.825 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason that was a problem is because these ideas were happening at the senior level, at the executive leadership team, the corporate headquarters. 10:14.506 --> 10:18.852 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, at the department head and division level, like they, they weren't as involved. 10:18.872 --> 10:19.994 [SPEAKER_01]: They're getting told what to do. 10:20.434 --> 10:21.396 [SPEAKER_01]: They're kind of spinning up. 10:21.456 --> 10:24.059 [SPEAKER_01]: They know changes are coming, but they don't know what the change are going to be. 10:24.560 --> 10:25.962 [SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't have ownership of it. 10:25.942 --> 10:31.689 [SPEAKER_01]: So what we did in this session was talking about, these are legitimate questions they're raising about. 10:31.769 --> 10:32.910 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have the resources? 10:33.191 --> 10:34.252 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have the manpower? 10:34.532 --> 10:35.814 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have the marketing budget? 10:36.475 --> 10:38.137 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what have we thought about these things? 10:38.717 --> 10:48.849 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what I said was just to talk to those leaders, I listened to them, I understood, took some notes and wrote down their feedback and I said, hey, would it be helpful? 10:49.170 --> 10:53.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think for your leaders to recognize what resources you're going to need to execute this? 10:54.629 --> 10:57.394 [SPEAKER_01]: And so now instead of complaining, they're saying, okay, that would be helpful. 10:57.675 --> 11:03.446 [SPEAKER_01]: So they started to write that down and then we talked to the executive leadership team that was in the room as we were having that discussion. 11:03.486 --> 11:05.510 [SPEAKER_01]: And then recognize that we'd love that. 11:05.570 --> 11:10.119 [SPEAKER_01]: We'd love these inputs to see what kind of resources that we think we might need. 11:10.159 --> 11:11.762 [SPEAKER_01]: What have we may have not thought of? 11:12.043 --> 11:13.726 [SPEAKER_01]: We want those kind of inputs from the team. 11:13.746 --> 11:15.810 [SPEAKER_01]: So we ended up being a very positive discussion. 11:16.611 --> 11:17.413 [SPEAKER_01]: But... 11:17.393 --> 11:20.798 [SPEAKER_01]: It could have been prevented if more ownership had been giving. 11:20.838 --> 11:22.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, here's what we're thinking about doing. 11:22.701 --> 11:23.863 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the new price we're going to launch. 11:24.263 --> 11:26.967 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think we need to get there? 11:27.168 --> 11:30.393 [SPEAKER_01]: How could this, you know, what are some of the obstacles that maybe we're not thinking about? 11:30.733 --> 11:33.798 [SPEAKER_01]: So the more that you can empower people, hey, here's the change. 11:34.058 --> 11:35.400 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to pivot to a new goal. 11:36.041 --> 11:38.525 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think is the best way to achieve that going? 11:38.545 --> 11:43.232 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're giving people ownership of that, or maybe even before that, even saying, hey, 11:44.360 --> 11:47.845 [SPEAKER_01]: would it be helpful for us to pivot to this new go-how could that help the teammate? 11:47.865 --> 11:52.531 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can give ownership the earliest you possibly can to the team. 11:53.152 --> 11:55.935 [SPEAKER_01]: If they have ownership of it, it's their plan, right? 11:55.975 --> 11:59.840 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're not resisting the change because they came up with the change. 12:00.041 --> 12:03.545 [SPEAKER_01]: They're fully bought into the change because it's their change that they're helping drive. 12:04.326 --> 12:08.252 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a great way to lead through change. 12:08.512 --> 12:10.114 [SPEAKER_01]: It's to give people ownership. 12:10.583 --> 12:18.722 [SPEAKER_02]: And one thing that we need to be aware of as leaders is the flip side of this conversation, which is implementing change to often with our teams. 12:19.122 --> 12:29.065 [SPEAKER_02]: Constantly changing the priorities, constantly pushing those goal posts back further, constantly creating that friction, and we're working with a client now, 12:29.045 --> 12:32.108 [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone on our team is describing this change fatigue. 12:32.448 --> 12:34.770 [SPEAKER_02]: I am so tired of the constant changes. 12:34.790 --> 12:41.776 [SPEAKER_02]: And you've got an organization that's very agile, very smart individuals, very excited about the changes that they've been trying to implement. 12:42.216 --> 12:52.625 [SPEAKER_02]: But the reality is is that when we make changes, we need to be thoughtful, we need to take our time, we need to give patience to the people, and we need to actually give some space for people to implement the change. 12:53.005 --> 12:56.328 [SPEAKER_02]: Before we shift directions or shift to new priorities. 12:56.728 --> 12:58.950 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's something as leaders we have to manage. 12:58.930 --> 13:02.678 [SPEAKER_02]: And that doesn't mean that we implement change, and we start to realize, hey, this isn't the right direction. 13:02.718 --> 13:13.320 [SPEAKER_02]: We got to shift those things happen, but we have to be careful that we're not creating an environment within our organizations, within our teams, within our families of constant shifting priorities. 13:13.801 --> 13:15.604 [SPEAKER_02]: So we need to be intentional as leaders. 13:15.925 --> 13:17.649 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to involve people in those changes. 13:17.989 --> 13:19.352 [SPEAKER_02]: But then we also need to, 13:19.332 --> 13:26.062 [SPEAKER_02]: allows some time for the change to be implemented before we start looking at how we're going to make the next step of change. 13:26.082 --> 13:27.605 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the iterative step we're talking about. 13:27.985 --> 13:42.167 [SPEAKER_02]: Make the iterative step, take a step back, get some feedback, get an understanding of what was working and what's not, and start to make those changes incrementally, as opposed to trying to do it all at once, which is when that creates that heightened sense of frustration. 13:42.299 --> 13:49.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this is also a good thing for us to think about as leaders, why it's so important to know your people. 13:49.753 --> 13:53.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you might have some people in your team that are good and flexible with change. 13:53.961 --> 13:57.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Like to late point in your guys's point or like nobody enjoys change. 13:57.768 --> 14:00.853 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are some people that can actually be very flexible. 14:01.234 --> 14:03.238 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some people that are not. 14:03.759 --> 14:06.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of us getting frustrated with them, 14:06.143 --> 14:07.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's think about who they are. 14:07.965 --> 14:10.148 [SPEAKER_00]: What is their life been like? 14:10.768 --> 14:15.173 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, typical military families, they travel and they move a lot. 14:15.193 --> 14:22.081 [SPEAKER_00]: So kids that grew up in that environment are probably going to be easier when it comes to accepting change. 14:22.642 --> 14:29.990 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife, when I met my wife, and I was wanting us to go back to San Diego and all these things, I didn't understand. 14:30.030 --> 14:32.012 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, in my mind of my, hey, I'm in the military. 14:32.173 --> 14:34.395 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm, you know, going to be re-enlisting. 14:34.375 --> 14:40.184 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, we're married, you're pregnant with twins, like Aiden's four, like, let's go, you, you get to live in San Diego. 14:40.204 --> 14:41.385 [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be amazing. 14:42.948 --> 14:48.696 [SPEAKER_00]: As amazing as that would have been, she had never been more than 20 minutes away from her parents, her whole life. 14:49.277 --> 14:54.625 [SPEAKER_00]: So the thought of her leaving Mississippi and going to San Diego was, it was a lot. 14:54.705 --> 14:55.887 [SPEAKER_00]: It was going to be too much for her. 14:56.728 --> 14:59.893 [SPEAKER_00]: And I failed and I damaged that relationship. 15:00.160 --> 15:09.473 [SPEAKER_00]: by being frustrated with my wife, by not stepping back and trying to understand her perspective of how drastic of a change this was gonna be. 15:10.454 --> 15:15.141 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, I was able to detach from those emotions and I made the decision, like, hey, what's best for my family? 15:15.821 --> 15:21.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sealed teams was awesome, great job, great career, however it's a chapter in my life, which is a long book. 15:22.370 --> 15:27.197 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I got out and I made the change to best support my family, 15:27.177 --> 15:32.607 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's we're going to have all different spectrums of people that work for us and work with us. 15:32.708 --> 15:33.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Some are going to be like cool. 15:33.629 --> 15:34.130 [SPEAKER_00]: No factor. 15:34.591 --> 15:36.735 [SPEAKER_00]: And other people like that change is going to be really difficult. 15:37.176 --> 15:38.278 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we have to lead them. 15:38.359 --> 15:41.765 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to lead them through the change, small iterative decisions. 15:41.845 --> 15:43.328 [SPEAKER_00]: And then hey, over the years, guess what? 15:43.348 --> 15:46.174 [SPEAKER_00]: It got to the point where we moved from Mississippi to Texas. 15:46.334 --> 15:47.937 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a big move. 15:47.917 --> 15:54.046 [SPEAKER_00]: But my wife was comfortable and ready for it and it was actually her idea when we did move and I was like, I like your idea. 15:54.146 --> 15:55.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's move to Texas. 15:55.128 --> 15:55.629 [SPEAKER_00]: scenario. 15:56.209 --> 15:57.251 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what's awesome about this? 15:57.291 --> 16:00.336 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I remember you helped me to actually all of these things. 16:00.656 --> 16:03.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Jay and JP's like, you know, and a man is an amazing lady. 16:03.841 --> 16:04.862 [SPEAKER_01]: I love your wife so much. 16:04.882 --> 16:06.705 [SPEAKER_01]: She's she's an incredible lady. 16:06.845 --> 16:12.574 [SPEAKER_01]: And, but she was, you know, it was hard for her to think about leaving home and moving someplace different, right? 16:12.554 --> 16:19.431 [SPEAKER_01]: you went and visited the Dallas Fort Worth area, Texas, and you met some friends there, and you kind of got her comfortable with the area. 16:20.152 --> 16:29.796 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when you started house shopping, right, you guys had a budget, and we had a conversation, and I was like, hey, JP, how much time are you on the road right now? 16:29.956 --> 16:30.377 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 16:30.357 --> 16:39.487 [SPEAKER_01]: a man is going to be home with the kids, maybe think about expanding that budget a little bit, you know, a nicer place that she could be more comfortable in at a nicer neighborhood. 16:39.507 --> 16:40.408 [SPEAKER_01]: And you did all those things. 16:40.548 --> 16:44.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was, you navigated that extremely well, right to be able to do that. 16:44.912 --> 16:46.394 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was the right thing for your family. 16:46.414 --> 16:48.957 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm so happy for you guys to make that change. 16:50.038 --> 16:58.947 [SPEAKER_01]: But you handled that well with iterative steps, with thinking about her perspective, and with mitigating the risk that you could control that she was concerned about. 16:59.399 --> 17:03.223 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that idea of ensuring that we know our people, because you're right. 17:03.304 --> 17:08.890 [SPEAKER_02]: I think about people on my team, and I can identify very quickly the people who are like, how, yeah, we're making a change, I'm in, let's go. 17:08.910 --> 17:10.652 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're almost excited about that. 17:10.672 --> 17:11.833 [SPEAKER_02]: I've got my personality. 17:12.234 --> 17:14.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And I have to realize that that's not everyone else. 17:14.857 --> 17:17.440 [SPEAKER_02]: There's people on my team that's a much bigger challenge. 17:17.860 --> 17:27.972 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the best thing we can do is leaders is to navigate that accordingly and try to mitigate that damage by including those individuals as early as we can. 17:27.952 --> 17:48.081 [SPEAKER_02]: knowing what the potential friction points are going to be and making sure that we bring them into that process that we get them involved, we create that sense of buy-in and maybe we give ourselves a little bit of a timeline where we can check in and reassess and get a sense of how things are going so we don't leave people out there feeling this friction of we're making all these changes. 17:48.121 --> 17:49.443 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where I fit. 17:49.523 --> 17:56.052 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where I belong because when people don't understand what we're trying to do and there is a 17:56.032 --> 18:02.442 [SPEAKER_02]: they will fill it in with what they assume and oftentimes, unfortunately, we don't get the benefit of assuming good intent. 18:02.903 --> 18:07.971 [SPEAKER_02]: We get the benefit of whatever story they're creating in their own mind and we don't want them to create that story. 18:08.372 --> 18:13.821 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the point that you brought up is really critical of knowing our people. 18:13.801 --> 18:22.790 [SPEAKER_02]: and making sure that when we communicate changes coming, we connect the thread of, here's the change, and by the way, here's how it's going to benefit you. 18:22.810 --> 18:25.573 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's why this is important for you. 18:25.593 --> 18:39.066 [SPEAKER_02]: And here's my promise of ensuring that we check in and that you've got the support that you need, you've got the resources, and for those individuals that are going to be a little slower to get on board at the change, that you help them understand, have got your back. 18:39.046 --> 18:42.572 [SPEAKER_02]: And there is an outcome here that is going to be a positive for you. 18:42.592 --> 18:55.553 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think nurturing those relationships in that way is really critical to avoid the rumor mill, the gossip mill, the negativity that impacts an entire team if we don't get a whole of it right there at the beginning. 18:55.870 --> 18:59.900 [SPEAKER_00]: And the stronger the relationship you have with your people, the easier these things are going to be. 19:00.502 --> 19:08.442 [SPEAKER_00]: When, you know, at that point when I wanted us to move to San Diego, I had only been in Amanda's life for a sliver of her whole life. 19:08.823 --> 19:11.770 [SPEAKER_00]: When we moved to Texas, it had been a fourth of her life. 19:11.750 --> 19:16.596 [SPEAKER_00]: I had much greater influence, we had a stronger relationship, there is much more trust there. 19:16.616 --> 19:26.128 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think about, I remember I got super frustrated and emotional on deployment in-remotty about something that was changing and Seth handled it so great. 19:26.168 --> 19:34.339 [SPEAKER_00]: He just laughed and like patting me on the back, which he did all the time and it was one of the things I loved about him because he was so genuine. 19:34.899 --> 19:38.584 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's what life does with all of us in Jocca and our whole team. 19:38.564 --> 19:50.384 [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember when I was 23 years old, frustrated, emotional and remodied about some changes, and he just like patting me on the back, kind of like squeezed my trap area a little bit, he goes, bro, this is going to be awesome. 19:51.406 --> 19:54.191 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just recognized, okay, it will be. 19:55.634 --> 19:57.096 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, Roger that. 19:57.278 --> 20:07.176 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great example, and Seth was great to do and that's for sure, and just keeping that positive attitude through whatever change is a challenge to become in our way. 20:08.158 --> 20:12.486 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that's important to note about this is you've got to have tactical patients. 20:12.466 --> 20:19.255 [SPEAKER_01]: the idea, and the scenario you described with the man right, she didn't immediately decide to pack up and move to taxes, right? 20:19.275 --> 20:28.046 [SPEAKER_01]: They took months and months and months and ever, you know, for that, I think the idea that like, hey, Jamie, this is clear in my mind, we should make this pivot. 20:28.307 --> 20:29.668 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an important thing that we should do. 20:30.029 --> 20:32.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Why can't Jamie just see that and do it right now and execute? 20:33.033 --> 20:34.795 [SPEAKER_01]: And that seems like, 20:34.775 --> 20:38.661 [SPEAKER_01]: The harder I push, often, the more you're going to push back, right? 20:38.701 --> 20:41.185 [SPEAKER_01]: So the hard right push, like, no, this is the right thing we have to do it. 20:41.566 --> 20:45.833 [SPEAKER_01]: The more you're going to push back on instead of having some tactical patients. 20:45.853 --> 20:51.943 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what people often find is sometimes you present an idea of the chain of command. 20:52.223 --> 20:53.004 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets shot down. 20:54.867 --> 20:56.951 [SPEAKER_01]: But over time, it starts getting circulated around. 20:57.592 --> 20:58.453 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, 20:59.058 --> 21:08.295 [SPEAKER_01]: weeks or months down, maybe even years down the road, the idea comes back around and the boss might have taken that and they don't even remember that you presented the idea, right? 21:08.395 --> 21:11.561 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, hey, this is not any, what do you think about this? 21:11.581 --> 21:12.062 [SPEAKER_01]: Should we do that? 21:12.242 --> 21:12.823 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds great. 21:12.843 --> 21:13.204 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it. 21:13.424 --> 21:18.193 [SPEAKER_01]: It was your idea and that is instead of being like, why should I get credit for that? 21:18.473 --> 21:19.395 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually doesn't matter. 21:19.375 --> 21:26.323 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's the right idea for the team and it's going to help the mission, then it doesn't matter who gets credit, it doesn't matter who came up with the idea. 21:26.624 --> 21:28.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone knows right who came up with the idea. 21:28.726 --> 21:41.181 [SPEAKER_01]: But this idea of if you can plant a seed and the chain of command takes and runs with that and doesn't even remember the conversation that enable you to to implement that solution. 21:41.161 --> 21:42.082 [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome. 21:42.102 --> 21:43.103 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what winning looks like. 21:43.423 --> 21:46.907 [SPEAKER_01]: And what you care about is the team winning and when the team wins, everybody wins. 21:47.207 --> 21:50.491 [SPEAKER_01]: So don't worry about credit and don't get frustrated on the timeline. 21:50.891 --> 22:04.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Have tackle patients and just try to mitigate the risk that you can control and talk about why this should, this would be the right move and realize that if it doesn't work today, maybe six months from now it does it. 22:04.626 --> 22:05.707 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a year from now it does. 22:06.548 --> 22:09.171 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you have that long term timeline, you can be successful. 22:09.191 --> 22:09.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome. 22:09.511 --> 22:10.893 [SPEAKER_02]: And that worries down the chain too. 22:10.953 --> 22:16.601 [SPEAKER_02]: Before you have been able to change, the best thing you can do is to plant that little seed with your team members. 22:17.001 --> 22:23.851 [SPEAKER_02]: And if the end result is that they come up with the change, even if you had it in your mind the whole time, that's the best case scenario. 22:24.372 --> 22:26.755 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what our immediate action drill is for this week. 22:27.156 --> 22:35.367 [SPEAKER_02]: Identify one upcoming change that you are going to have to implement either with your team or with your family at home and prepare for that. 22:35.347 --> 22:46.420 [SPEAKER_02]: Communicate early, have an intentional plan for how you're going to roll that change out, and do your best to involve those individuals as early as possible so you can get the right buy in on what that change is going to be. 22:46.568 --> 22:50.232 [SPEAKER_01]: give as much ownership as early as possible as you can. 22:50.412 --> 22:53.936 [SPEAKER_01]: And that will help to mitigate the risk of people pushing back into that change. 22:54.557 --> 23:07.331 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're on a team where changes are happening and you're frustrated, realize that you've got to be flexible, you have to be flexible to be able to make adjustments, but take a step back to tax from your emotions and think about where you're going long term. 23:08.131 --> 23:13.217 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you keep the team focused, despite changes, 23:13.197 --> 23:22.498 [SPEAKER_01]: for the long-term goal, that's going to enable you to navigate that change, and that one will you and your team to lead and win.