[SPEAKER_02]: What's up, everybody?
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Comic Book Club.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Alex and we've got another bonus episode for you here with one of my favorite guys to talk to, very excited to talk about his new book, Killer Influences, which is coming out from IDW's new crime line.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gonna be hitting stores on July 1st.
[SPEAKER_02]: Final order cutoff is gonna be on May 25th.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're gonna wanna get an orders after here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was talking about it, but ladies and gentlemen, the writer of the book, Joey Esposito, Joey, welcome to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me, huge fan.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be a huge fan of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is working out so well.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... joey i love this book i got an advance chance to check it out i'm not going to spoil too much because as we're typically still several months out from when it is coming out uh... but as i mentioned this is part of i d w's new crime line take the big broad view before we get into the specifics about what the book is um... what did that need to you when i d w came to you or you came to that but i don't know if you're knocking at their door begging
[SPEAKER_02]: to let you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always just like bucking everybody all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but this was this I was so thrilled to be asked to do this because my very first comic when I started self publishing was a it was a crime new war comic about big foot and so like crime has been something that I've always loved.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love crime fiction, I love, you know, true crime docs, all that stuff, and sort of sort of have it all come full circle, and end up doing a crime book for a real deal publisher was really fun, and also it was, you know, my friend Dave Bulgis, the editor who I had worked with at DC previously, and so to get to work with him again, it was a blast, and it just, yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: The, I did have you crime line not to talk about the other books, but like, there's a wide array of things that they're talking about then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's talk about them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a wide array of different type of books, like it's not all your detective, noir, the first thing that frankly for me comes to mind when I think about crime.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, what does it mean to you when you hear a crime book?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it just a book with crime in it or is there something more to it?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my initial instinct is to, like, you go to Newar because it's just like, you know, Chandler and, like, that kind of stuff and where, like, my mind goes, my all-time favorite book books are the, the Scutter Books by Lawrence Block, you know, sort of classic detective novels or what I think of when I think crime fiction, but that means think about crime
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are, we think of tales of the crypt, tales from the crypt specifically usually.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they also had a lot of crime-specific comics that were bad things happening to the criminals who do these things or sometimes, the criminals getting away.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that sort of pushed crime also into this more suspenseful or adjacent kind of arena,
[SPEAKER_03]: is more work-ular influences lives within the dichotomy of W crime line, but I think crime is really flexible and it's often best when it's paired with other genres and you know it's just it's a real elastic genre type that I think could go in any direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yours definitely goes in some interesting directions.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much you want to talk about the plot at this point, but just the broader, the wider, the widest broader overview is that it deals with the intersection of serial killers and true crime serial killer podcasts.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else do you feel comfortable added at this point, Joey?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I would say, this is the book about
[SPEAKER_03]: our current moment in a lot of ways, you know, but I guess plot-wise, I would say, it's the story of a serial killer who is so good that he's flying under the radar, who teams up with a true crime influencer, or want to be true crime influencer in order to help build his brand essentially, and hopefully they both become rich and famous in the process.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, you know, that doesn't seem like a great idea, so really the story is about how their lives just utterly collapse around them by doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: ridiculous idea yeah and it does get ridiculous even in the the first issue it goes in some wild directions and I love the characters that you've etched out here but let me ask you about the true crime podcast thing because full disclosure I can't get into it like I can't do it it's too much for me which is something that I think you touch on a little bit in the first
[SPEAKER_02]: But what is your relationship to true crime podcast you listen to them or you've obsessed with them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you hate them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where do you at?
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love a good investigative crime podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like when cereal happened, like that was like, like everyone I was mesmerized, but even shows like criminal with Phoebe Judge, I think is an excellent, like best case example of what quote unquote true crime can be in that it's
[SPEAKER_03]: She always has an interesting angle on what the crime is or what the crime constitutes and you know who's sort of the protagonist or or is there a protagonist or these are just the people who got mixed up in this wild thing that happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you have the flip side of what I would say like exploitative maybe is the term I would use that are just
[SPEAKER_03]: going over grizzly details without necessarily the victims best interests in mind and just sort of like turning into a horror movie or a slasher movie instead of like treating it like the actual human crime against the human being that it was.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's some people who love the glory details and who really
[SPEAKER_03]: get in the weeds on some stuff, but it's not in a scientific or like investigative way, it's more in like a sick fascination like you're watching a snuff film way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that
[SPEAKER_03]: Try to be insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I definitely don't lean in that direction, but I think there is value to really solid and investigative audio reporting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you, you don't have to call out names if you don't want to, but did you look to any podcast, particularly?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know you mentioned cereal, but once you got this project, did you start doing any research and looking into anything?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, I feel like, you know, my wife is a huge public radio person
[SPEAKER_03]: huge communications nerd.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's very knowledgeable in that sort of media landscape.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I have a good handle on the genuine authentic investigative side.
[SPEAKER_03]: So really where I was dipping my toes into was the other side of things such as YouTubers and streamers and social media influencers who
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, visit crime scenes or just like speculate wildly with no evidence and, you know, if you speak authoritatively about anything on the internet someone's going to believe you and I think, you know, that's a huge problem in every aspect of life on the internet, but I find it particularly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to put judgment to it, but it's scary to me to see the lack of empathy in some people when they're talking about or if I think that have happened to other human beings.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's sort of, that was a well of research that I waited into and felt
[SPEAKER_03]: things to be able to continue my work when I definitely couldn't linger there for too long.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll offer up some judgment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what I have experienced of it, it drives me absolutely up the wall in part of the reason I can't get into it is people treating real crimes like they're speculating about what's next for the MCU.
[SPEAKER_02]: When it's right, people died here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, you were not an investigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've watched a bunch of TV episodes of
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that you're going into it and it's gross exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I so what do you have you watched only murders in the building?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that show, but The way that they Show them like producing their podcast where they're like openly speculating and releasing episodes on like the speculation part of it without like
[SPEAKER_03]: No vetting, no fact checking, none of that is happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: It drives me insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, it's funny, especially if that's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, that.
[SPEAKER_03]: is how I feel like there are some actual real people who are doing things that way and that's a huge problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just going to say that the thing that drives me insane and the reason I can't watch oldie murders of the building is the way they actually produce the podcast because they're like waving around a little right there and then Steve Martin will get up and be like and that's where the murder happened and you get to what I did in that person like what were you recording?
[SPEAKER_03]: Really funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also like that they haven't had to pivot to video yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Soon soon they'll do it next season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do a video podcast on Netflix or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean to keep talking about podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I say this is somebody who is doing a podcast with you right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not the most visually compelling thing in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do you make sure something like that works in a comic book?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or is that onto the artist at this point?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we do have some like static shots of her on the YouTube screen, but, you know, we want that to be reflective of real life and engaging, but I think mostly with the way that I approached this was to not show that much of it, you know, this is like, I'm interested in, we all sort of know what that content looks like, you know, and we'll get, like, glipses of headlines and things like an issue on it's, um, I think it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a serial killer in my town and nobody believes me.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like very attention-grabby headline and I think you get, you understand like the kind of content that she's offering.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was much more interested in focusing in the off-camera time of, you know, the thing that she is trying to present to the world versus what her actual life is like, which is,
[SPEAKER_03]: a very average, seemingly pretty miserable life that she's desperate to get out of.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I wanted to focus on the real life aspects behind the content creator aspects if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Otherwise, you know, if we're doing something that is on the internet, hopefully we can do it in like a fun creative way.
[SPEAKER_03]: For example, an issue one one moment that I really love is there's a moment where she's getting a bunch of comments and they just kind of we, you know, the letter or just deck them on the on the page and I think that's like a fun use of technology as a visual aesthetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think that's difficult to do, and it's funny how often it rings false in a comic book and to be clear I don't think it rang false at all in your comic like it all seemed very seamless there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's tricky to get that sort of social media stuff out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It feels like I spent all day of this, but that's not what that looks like.
[SPEAKER_03]: capturing the current moment as it exists, you know, especially within a story, which feels like more and more of the only like historical documents we're gonna have at some point, like the rendering of outing the withdrawn and the present versus like how they're being portrayed in the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's what I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was just gonna ask if you're, have put any thought to having a companion podcast
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man, I think that would be hilarious.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to not have to do anything for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's um, as a proof of a podcast, you know how much work it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, I just like editing one episode of a podcast would take me a week, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess that's a no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the art a little bit since we touched on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got I forgive me if I missed pronounce to anybody's name, but you've got art by Valeria Burzo, colors by Anaki Azpazu, Azpazu, is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, haven't said his name out about and I apologize.
[SPEAKER_02]: I apologize as well because the colors are great and the art is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is a very typical question for this sort of thing, but obviously you're creating the script once you start to get it back.
[SPEAKER_02]: How is that impacting how you're writing these characters going forward?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I would say a pretty big impact Valeria, I've been a huge fan of her work for a long time.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, followed her on Instagram and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and what's really funny is that I commissioned her for something separate, like, within two weeks of getting this job.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then learning that Valeria was also going to be the artist.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it seemed like, um, hismit, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um,
[SPEAKER_03]: quote-unquote acting, you know, facial expressions and body gestures and things like that that it's kind of frees you up a little bit more to try some more nuanced moments.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in terms of comic book, emotion and expression and acting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think in issues like issues 2 and 3,
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, it's hard for me to be a few objective at this point, but I do feel like after this artist started coming back, I felt like more comfortable giving her more challenging emotions, because this obviously is a story that doesn't really ride one line or the other, it's kind of emotionally an emotional wild card, I would say.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's it like getting in the head space was serial killer?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's not awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would say what helped the most was just reading, just reading the good of the true crime.
[SPEAKER_03]: I revisited like Zodyak for example, Ann Rul, who gets a shout out in the book.
[SPEAKER_03]: I read the Stranger beside me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's not so much like,
[SPEAKER_03]: trying to live in a serial killer's mindset, but at least understanding, as best as we can, how we perceive that they operate.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, but also I think it's important, I don't wanna say, like, I'm trying to humanize him in any way, as he's certainly a piece of garbage.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but I do think it's also important to reflect
[SPEAKER_03]: situations just to give everyone the full context of everything that's happening, like inside, like, which I guess kind of could also bring up the question of nature versus nurture, but I think showing those things together hopefully by the end of the series will give you
[SPEAKER_03]: But you want step closer to the answer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if that made any sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I think it made sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these are, I'm forgetting the exact number of issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it three issues or there's issues, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's three issues, but they're all oversized.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you want, it's 40 pages.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then two and three are each 30 pages.
[SPEAKER_02]: How does that change the rhythm?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because usually you're working in like a 20 maybe two or five pages issue.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was, it was a challenge to be honest,
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a fairly big story to tell, and you have to do it in three acts, essentially, like each issue has to be distinct in its own way, but still building on the last chapter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was actually a little tough to get my head around, have first, but then it was really a great opportunity to kind of stretch out a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, once we have like, okay, this is, this is issue one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then like actually pacing is she won itself was kind of nice because I had so much more, many more pages to work with and then I'm used to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is going back to the beginning, but were there any guardrails in terms of, hey, this is what IDW crime is, or was it more about just, find it the right story and going with it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, I mean, they, so the way this, this worked was they, they had a premise, which was an influencer helps a serial killer build his brand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I was like, okay, but I mean, that's great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Great premise.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so then basically, it, they felt me to develop that was input from the WTM along the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me, and my, my pitch was essentially like, you know, tonally, it's,
[SPEAKER_03]: My crawler meets American Psycho, but also maybe some national burn killers, you know, just like really grounded realistic characters in terms of the world that they operate in, but just like doing highly questionable things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's the tone that we were going for.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think they were on board.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do want to ask you about something else while I have you, you are doing a Power Rangers title for Boo and what can you tell us about that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can tell you it is a dream come true and so much fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, so that our Rangers unlimited, I'm co-writing with Kenny Porter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, Alasio Zano is doing the first issue, and she's Euro comes out on free comic book day slash homics giveaway day, I'm very excited about, but what I can tell you about this series is that this is, um, last dumping out the toy box and just going crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's every ranger ever is on the board.
[SPEAKER_03]: every issue is going to be sort of like its own different genre while telling one larger story and mixing and matching teams from all the power-ringed areas.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's truly like if you ask me 15 years ago like what's your dream, comics gig when you're starting out on this wild comics ride, it would be this, it would be Power Rangers
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any plans or are you going to do head to a comic book shop or just sort of like stand next to be like, wow, both these titles look very good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to I'm going to put on my heart cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just go around all around Maine and Handsome to people.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'll go to my my local comic shop.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's called mid coast comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're great.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do a little signing there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Joey, before I let you go, anything else you want to plug, obviously, these are two big things we talked about, but anything else folks should check out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I would encourage you to also check out the other IDW crime books.
[SPEAKER_03]: 7 wives and fixation are going to be awesome and I'm so excited to be a part of this launch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love crime comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love the crime genre.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope we get more of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: For a second there I thought you were going to say I love crime which would have taken this in a very different direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, never say never.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if the comic scene doesn't work out, there's always objects.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for coming out, Jerry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll let's just turn back to them again We'll listen and I get again I want the beat There's no goal in mind We'll take our music sales And it's done now And it's done now And it's done on the sales And it's done on the sales
[SPEAKER_00]: They sit on crappy couches and they let us see the moon And he's showing up, they feel like fast, they're so messy So grab your ring, hammer, don't be late, or it'll fail