WEBVTT 00:02.073 --> 00:07.449 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Sexology, a podcast that untangles the science of sex and pleasure. 00:08.011 --> 00:15.373 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, with this week's episode, your host, Clinical Psychologist, Dr. Naseneen Moali. 00:17.007 --> 00:20.912 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to another episode of The Sexology podcast. 00:21.093 --> 00:28.402 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm your host, Dr. Nazanine, well, Ollie, and today we're talking about something I hear all this time in my practice. 00:28.883 --> 00:31.467 [SPEAKER_03]: My partner just doesn't want sex anymore. 00:31.807 --> 00:37.255 [SPEAKER_03]: And when that happens, most people go straight to the worst case scenario. 00:37.475 --> 00:42.762 [SPEAKER_03]: Something is wrong with me, something is wrong with them, or something is broken in the relationship. 00:42.742 --> 00:46.126 [SPEAKER_03]: But what if that's not actually what's going on? 00:46.146 --> 00:49.891 [SPEAKER_03]: What if losing desire isn't a failure, but a signal? 00:50.391 --> 00:55.958 [SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, we're unpacking some of the biggest misunderstandings around desire. 00:56.278 --> 01:03.467 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk about how people slowly become disconnected from pleasure long before it shows up in the bedroom. 01:03.447 --> 01:14.577 [SPEAKER_03]: how trying to be a good partner can actually shut down desire, and why desire isn't something you can force, but something you can create the conditions for. 01:14.938 --> 01:32.914 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm joined by Courtney Feilong, creator of Sex Life Makeover, an a TEDx speaker who spent over 20 years helping women reconnect with her sexuality in a way that feels natural and actually enjoyable, not pressured or performative. 01:32.894 --> 01:37.460 [SPEAKER_03]: And if this is something you've been struggling with, I made something for you. 01:37.761 --> 01:49.297 [SPEAKER_03]: I created a free book called a woman's guide to reviving sex drive based on the exact challenges I see with my clients and the solutions that actually work. 01:49.317 --> 01:58.611 [SPEAKER_03]: It walks you through how desire really functions, how to reconnect with your body, and how to build a more sustainable relationship with pleasure. 01:58.931 --> 02:02.496 [SPEAKER_03]: You can download it for free using the link in the show notes. 02:02.476 --> 02:04.048 [SPEAKER_03]: Alright, let's dive in. 02:07.825 --> 02:12.710 [SPEAKER_03]: Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Sexology podcast. 02:12.850 --> 02:17.635 [SPEAKER_03]: I am so excited to welcome Courtney Bay Long to our show. 02:17.695 --> 02:18.776 [SPEAKER_03]: Courtney, welcome to our show. 02:19.116 --> 02:21.438 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much and so happy to be here. 02:21.839 --> 02:24.021 [SPEAKER_03]: I am very excited about this conversation. 02:24.121 --> 02:36.313 [SPEAKER_03]: I know many people who are listening to this show, they are a long-term partnership and the experience changes in desire. 02:36.293 --> 02:38.577 [SPEAKER_03]: part of being a long-term partnership. 02:39.058 --> 02:46.693 [SPEAKER_03]: But when people say, my partner just doesn't want sex anymore, their mind usually goes to the worst case situation. 02:46.753 --> 02:51.703 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think people get wrong about when it comes to lost desire? 02:51.903 --> 02:54.547 [SPEAKER_02]: women actually want sex. 02:55.028 --> 03:08.848 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear so many men in heterosexual relationships assuming that their woman is just not into it, not interested, but women don't want football style sex, which is very common. 03:08.828 --> 03:18.824 [SPEAKER_02]: football style is when we skip the warm-up drills, rush to the goal line, score, then conquer for a victory net. 03:19.205 --> 03:25.555 [SPEAKER_02]: And the average sexual experience is something like five to ten, maybe 12 minutes long. 03:25.535 --> 03:34.795 [SPEAKER_02]: But women's bodies need 20 to 45 minutes just for the warm-up before intercourse feels really pleasurable. 03:35.176 --> 03:37.040 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and women can certainly do shorter. 03:37.080 --> 03:43.695 [SPEAKER_02]: They can do quickies, but it feels better with more warm-up time, and it's not just an emotional. 03:43.675 --> 03:57.319 [SPEAKER_02]: preference is actually physiological because of the erectile tissue that women also have within the clitoris and the more time we allow for that tissue to engorge becomes more sensitive and feels better. 03:57.359 --> 04:06.915 [SPEAKER_02]: So what I see is women don't necessarily lose desire, they lose desire for 04:06.895 --> 04:10.181 [SPEAKER_03]: thousand percent coordinated all the time in my practice. 04:10.642 --> 04:20.198 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the other challenge that people have is they kind of like they think like for a place something like we do underway to the main event, right? 04:20.218 --> 04:25.107 [SPEAKER_03]: Like people do a little bit of kissing things that like neither of the party are into, right? 04:25.127 --> 04:28.413 [SPEAKER_03]: Like in for example, if you're like going with your analysis, you're doing a warm up. 04:28.453 --> 04:32.059 [SPEAKER_03]: That's not warm, make any of their required muscle. 04:32.039 --> 04:39.913 [SPEAKER_03]: So it feels like a waste of time, so when I talk to them about, like, what do you do for for play, many people, like you know, we're not into for play. 04:40.454 --> 04:47.787 [SPEAKER_03]: How can people find a for play that's, like, as you said, like, it's create physiological arousal and psychological arousals? 04:47.885 --> 05:14.500 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the forplay is so important and we can feel when our partners rushing through it to get to the main act right versus just really enjoying it so the number one thing is not a technique but the number one thing It says be present in the moment and this is where hustle culture gets in the way because we work so hard all day long and then all of a sudden we're supposed to shift gears and be relaxed and really 05:14.480 --> 05:22.411 [SPEAKER_02]: Present for a sexual experience, but the more we can take deep breaths and just be with our partner that can help. 05:22.992 --> 05:31.404 [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing is every time you approach sex, imagine it's the first time that you're with your partner that you don't know anything about their body. 05:31.705 --> 05:38.074 [SPEAKER_02]: So be curious and explore, you know, touch them here and notice, do they like that touch them there. 05:38.054 --> 05:48.026 [SPEAKER_02]: And think about, it's a thing about touching the whole body for for play, not just going right for the hotspots, like the breaths and the genitals. 05:48.326 --> 05:49.047 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 05:49.087 --> 05:53.292 [SPEAKER_03]: And now for many people, kind of whole body exploration is important. 05:53.933 --> 06:03.545 [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes like what I noticed with lots of mobile owners is like they had like experiences of sex being painful because their body is not turned out. 06:03.785 --> 06:05.547 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 06:05.527 --> 06:10.621 [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a holy, a whole month that they haven't had sex, like in Saturday, we got to get into it. 06:11.142 --> 06:15.595 [SPEAKER_03]: And they're just kind of like, and I, in the past, been the guilty of that. 06:15.875 --> 06:17.861 [SPEAKER_03]: You're checked out from your body, right? 06:17.881 --> 06:20.548 [SPEAKER_03]: When you're checked out in your body, as you were talking about, 06:20.528 --> 06:48.072 [SPEAKER_03]: it's hard to get turned on and therefore like you're just not gonna enjoy it and we know that when we're not enjoying sex long term that can lead to kind of like a lost desire overall and often when I ask people like when they come to my practice about how much to enjoy the sexual experiences they have together is just not a matter of frequency at all right if you have lots of 06:48.052 --> 06:51.657 [SPEAKER_03]: That's actually created like lots of desires. 06:51.738 --> 06:59.469 [SPEAKER_03]: So even if you're having like a once a month sex as it's, and it's great, that can help the relationship much better. 07:00.090 --> 07:04.397 [SPEAKER_03]: I know you talk about the important of pleasure on day-to-day basis. 07:04.997 --> 07:13.350 [SPEAKER_03]: So what are some of the everyday ways people become cut off from pleasure long before like they experience a loss of pleasure in the bedroom? 07:13.398 --> 07:28.656 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's such a great question because I call it all day for play, which is essentially all day connection and affection that it's not just the for play that builds up to sex, but it's the flirtatious text message to our partner it's the 07:28.636 --> 07:40.128 [SPEAKER_02]: the hug, the sexy look across the room, so we become cut off from those things when we are only touching each other when it's time for sex. 07:40.689 --> 07:44.653 [SPEAKER_02]: And so many of the women that I talk to are starved for touch. 07:45.254 --> 07:50.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Touch only happens in the bedroom, but they're longing for holding hands, cuddling. 07:50.980 --> 07:54.424 [SPEAKER_02]: We're watching TV and cuddling, just that everyday touch. 07:54.404 --> 07:59.054 [SPEAKER_02]: Another big way we become cut off is date night. 07:59.074 --> 08:07.833 [SPEAKER_02]: Most couples do date night backwards, where they start with dinner and a movie, and they hope to get lucky at the end of the night. 08:08.014 --> 08:13.105 [SPEAKER_02]: But by the end of the night, they're completely exhausted, and they have to actually kind of 08:13.085 --> 08:16.128 [SPEAKER_02]: create the energy to do it, you know, it's not natural. 08:16.648 --> 08:35.786 [SPEAKER_02]: So what I see the couples that I work with the happiest ones, they actually do sex earlier in the day or they start date night with sex first because the boosts are oxytocin, the love hormone, so we feel closer, more connected, also boosts are dopamine, the field goodener or transmitter. 08:35.846 --> 08:41.691 [SPEAKER_02]: So then the rest of date night is just 08:41.671 --> 08:54.011 [SPEAKER_02]: or even those who start the day with sex, it can boost our mood and energy, confidence and creativity for the rest of the day, so it's easier to tackle everything on our to-do list. 08:54.472 --> 08:57.276 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think some of it is just the sex scripts that we've been given. 08:57.336 --> 09:00.321 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, oh, we're supposed to save sex for bedtime. 09:00.301 --> 09:16.622 [SPEAKER_02]: But I see this so much, especially when people are over 40, and then even getting into their 50s, it's much harder to make love at the very end of the night, but so you just shift it into earlier in the day, all of the sudden is much easier, more energizing. 09:16.602 --> 09:41.698 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that and I often tell my clients is like one of the biggest secret is what you just mentioned like having sex at the beginning of a date night because what happens is and I'm sure you kind of experience with your own clients is when we are kind of struggling with desire discrepancy or we don't have sex on regular basis kind of initiating sex having sex create this mental load. 09:41.678 --> 09:46.288 [SPEAKER_03]: and really have like going to the dinner, you're thinking, can I will I be able to perform? 09:46.328 --> 09:48.834 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not able to perform, my partner is into it. 09:49.195 --> 09:56.350 [SPEAKER_03]: As you mentioned, it can create more kind of a mental space, might not kind of like it might even impact the quality of data. 09:56.771 --> 10:00.700 [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're thinking about like the erotic connection first, 10:00.680 --> 10:05.812 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that can be very powerful and I could be like, you don't need to even have intercourse, right? 10:05.892 --> 10:13.710 [SPEAKER_03]: Aortic connection could be like, do a rotting massage and we get into this mood of lover to lover and then we go on a date night. 10:13.893 --> 10:15.134 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. 10:15.174 --> 10:22.803 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a huge part, too, if it's not all or nothing, it's not, we're just not touching each other or on the other end of the spectrum. 10:23.103 --> 10:24.625 [SPEAKER_02]: We're just having intercourse. 10:25.406 --> 10:37.099 [SPEAKER_02]: If we really unpack that idea that sex equals intercourse and think about all day long, our opportunities for connecting with each other energetically, 10:37.383 --> 10:59.486 [SPEAKER_02]: thought to thought heart to heart and then think of it like it's all day love making or all day for play and everything we do all day long impacts how much we want to engage you know in sexual activities as well as how open we are to our partner because I think the connection is something that so many couples are missing. 10:59.506 --> 11:06.073 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I doubt to so many people that they're going through 11:06.053 --> 11:12.959 [SPEAKER_02]: mechanical, where there's not passion, there's not much connection, and people get checked out. 11:12.979 --> 11:18.745 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's so easy, and those experiences to just be in our heads during sex rather than in our bodies. 11:18.785 --> 11:20.246 [SPEAKER_02]: It just fully enjoying it. 11:20.746 --> 11:30.916 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's one of these things where what we do within our own body during the day impacts our love, making you a whether we're present in our body. 11:31.376 --> 11:33.478 [SPEAKER_02]: Mindful, relaxed. 11:34.336 --> 11:36.788 [SPEAKER_02]: keeping our stress under control. 11:36.828 --> 11:42.034 [SPEAKER_02]: All of those things can make the experience more enjoyable for you and for your partner. 11:42.352 --> 11:51.604 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, and I think the other thing that I've noticed is sometimes we leave a life that's just not sexy and I'm going to kind of explain it in a minute, right? 11:51.724 --> 12:01.677 [SPEAKER_03]: We're just kind of not taking care of our bodies, we're not wearing what we want to wear, like we feel like the life that we have, we're just not turned on by our life, right? 12:01.697 --> 12:11.650 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're kind of like disconnected from sensuality, and that's why I think many people feel like it could be even about how the partner fills about themselves. 12:11.630 --> 12:20.402 [SPEAKER_03]: That can impact their desire and I think like part of four play is us kind of like taking care of ourselves do things Essentially that feels good. 12:20.802 --> 12:29.955 [SPEAKER_03]: I have clients that they say even like as part of a date not you can Start masturbating or doing a massage in the shower, so you're kind of awakening your senses. 12:30.335 --> 12:32.558 [SPEAKER_03]: So put you in this right mood 12:32.538 --> 12:38.914 [SPEAKER_03]: Because again, it can be tough to pivot if you have a demanding job, you have children, you're in the task mode. 12:38.934 --> 12:47.475 [SPEAKER_03]: And I kind of like going back to what you mentioned, being into relational mode requires you to kind of like shift your nervous system a little bit. 12:47.759 --> 12:48.922 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. 12:48.942 --> 12:49.664 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so true. 12:49.764 --> 12:55.800 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's so many people when they're in stress mode, it's so hard to feel turn on. 12:55.820 --> 13:03.439 [SPEAKER_02]: Then on the flip side, I work with a lot of highly sexual women who want a lot of sex. 13:03.419 --> 13:16.580 [SPEAKER_02]: but because we've been raised with so much shame around it and women essentially have been socialized to put everyone's needs ahead of our own to the point that sometimes it takes courage to even have needs. 13:17.181 --> 13:26.777 [SPEAKER_02]: Any needs, whether to rest, to take a break or then you add on the sexual shame, so to have sexual needs, it takes a lot of courage. 13:26.757 --> 13:46.572 [SPEAKER_02]: So, it's the a lot of women whose partners don't realize how much sex the woman wants because she's not necessarily comfortable asking or initiating or if she initiates too much then the partner might shut down because of the pressure so there's just oh, there's so much to it. 13:46.552 --> 13:56.505 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, and I kind of like going back to what you're talking about, like there is a seems like there is a script, like a narrow script of what is your sexuality needs to look like. 13:56.886 --> 14:03.494 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you like something taboo or kinky, right, and that kind of like feels difficult to ask for some women. 14:03.915 --> 14:09.462 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's what's so interesting going back to your comment about a lot of women wanting lots of sex. 14:09.482 --> 14:12.306 [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes people feel like, oh, my partner is not 14:12.286 --> 14:28.889 [SPEAKER_03]: sexual, when they're in heterosexual relationship, meanwhile, like I have clients that they're contenty reading this, like, smart, hot, erotic, masturbating, so that their eroticism is alive, but we're just not communicating what we want and we're not creating space for it. 14:29.490 --> 14:30.010 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 14:30.030 --> 14:34.476 [SPEAKER_02]: And not wanting to ascend our partner because there is a real relational risk. 14:34.556 --> 14:39.323 [SPEAKER_02]: If let's say we ask our partner for something that we want 14:39.303 --> 14:47.013 [SPEAKER_02]: basically criticize us or don't like that we asked for that or they feel offended or whatever it is. 14:47.214 --> 15:03.015 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I see a lot of women that they don't fully ask or maybe they'll just ask for a little, but not fully divulge, hey, I'm into this king or hey, I actually want to be making love every day because they don't want to threaten the connection. 15:02.995 --> 15:09.083 [SPEAKER_02]: And they also don't want to offend their man because our societal script says, oh, the man is supposed to always want it more. 15:09.103 --> 15:14.971 [SPEAKER_02]: So if a woman finds herself, she's the one who wants it more, it can just feel so disorienting. 15:14.991 --> 15:19.077 [SPEAKER_02]: That's where a lot of women start feeling like something's wrong with them. 15:19.117 --> 15:23.603 [SPEAKER_02]: If their man is not initiating or not wanting it as much as she does, 15:23.583 --> 15:27.268 [SPEAKER_02]: is it so common women think am I not attractive anymore? 15:27.288 --> 15:29.290 [SPEAKER_02]: Is he watching too much porn? 15:29.491 --> 15:36.680 [SPEAKER_02]: It may be comparing me to those other women, which I just find fascinating because it's usually something else, right? 15:36.900 --> 15:39.784 [SPEAKER_02]: Stress, pressure, performance, pressure. 15:39.844 --> 15:52.020 [SPEAKER_02]: It could even be, like if a partner's not initiating, it could very well be that they actually feel like they're giving 15:52.000 --> 15:56.709 [SPEAKER_02]: There's just so many reasons and usually it's not because someone's not attractive anymore. 15:57.130 --> 15:57.811 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 15:57.911 --> 15:58.212 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 15:58.232 --> 15:58.492 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 15:59.174 --> 15:59.895 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 16:00.276 --> 16:09.874 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think like sometimes for people it's hard to have those difficult conversations and it's also very easy to like use porn as a scapegoat. 16:09.854 --> 16:26.817 [SPEAKER_03]: like kind of like thinking about that my partner probably masturbating or they like this can't kind of sit all the time with some of my women like female clients they'd like this king because that's what they seen in porn which in return right you could be interested in something kinky and you're searching that porn 16:26.797 --> 16:44.248 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like very interesting how sometimes having deeper conversations because we haven't had good skill set for those, it can kind of like become a huge challenge and something that another challenge that I see in my female clients will the owners is that 16:44.228 --> 16:46.753 [SPEAKER_03]: to try to be good partners, right? 16:46.773 --> 16:58.094 [SPEAKER_03]: Like they know like back before like getting married or longer partnership, they knew themselves, but they kind of like show the version of yourself, version of themselves, that's been kind of good partner. 16:58.154 --> 17:02.222 [SPEAKER_03]: What's expected of them, that and that kills the desire. 17:02.302 --> 17:06.490 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of curious if you see that what's been your experience with them. 17:06.520 --> 17:06.941 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:07.061 --> 17:13.949 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when we're trying to be good for our partner, then we're in our head almost mentally checking. 17:13.989 --> 17:15.151 [SPEAKER_02]: Am I doing this right? 17:15.211 --> 17:16.232 [SPEAKER_02]: Am I doing that right? 17:16.713 --> 17:17.954 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're not in our body. 17:18.355 --> 17:20.477 [SPEAKER_02]: And our turn on lives in our body. 17:20.497 --> 17:22.920 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's one part of it. 17:23.020 --> 17:28.287 [SPEAKER_02]: The other part is when we're trying to do a certain thing for our partner or be a good partner. 17:28.647 --> 17:34.755 [SPEAKER_02]: We tend to be in doing mode, almost like caregiving mode, 17:34.735 --> 17:38.304 [SPEAKER_02]: And that can kill desire if we're almost mothering our partner. 17:38.786 --> 17:42.275 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's a difference between being nurturing and mothering. 17:42.315 --> 17:49.774 [SPEAKER_02]: And when we shift those dynamics into parent child mode, oh my gosh, desire goes away very quickly. 17:49.754 --> 17:52.537 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's one thing that's unfortunate. 17:52.637 --> 17:56.201 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, no one wants to be the mother of their partner, right? 17:56.241 --> 18:08.493 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think what's challenging is we kind of like women get corner in this managerial position, past four guest things, and they take on those roles, but absolutely that kills the desire. 18:08.513 --> 18:17.382 [SPEAKER_03]: At times I see with my couples that I work with, like the partner says that it's just to turn off, like my partner feel like it's she's my mom. 18:17.362 --> 18:22.727 [SPEAKER_03]: And she'd think, I'm everything, she does everything, and she kind of has kind of nagged me. 18:23.148 --> 18:29.715 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think if you're finding yourself in this dynamic, it's helpful to reflect on what's happening, what is the pattern? 18:30.295 --> 18:32.678 [SPEAKER_03]: And can be changed that pattern. 18:32.718 --> 18:34.840 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's something that's, I see often. 18:35.340 --> 18:40.706 [SPEAKER_03]: Another interesting thing that kills the desire being in the place of performance. 18:40.966 --> 18:43.048 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to hear your thoughts about it. 18:43.028 --> 18:46.273 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, many women learn that, like, including myself. 18:46.313 --> 18:50.339 [SPEAKER_03]: That, oh, like, a wild, good sexual woman looks like this. 18:50.359 --> 18:52.682 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you got a, like, moan like this, right? 18:52.702 --> 18:54.405 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you got a right, like this. 18:54.905 --> 19:01.235 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're like, different, and somehow in the way, like, you lose your embodied experience. 19:01.255 --> 19:02.877 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's totally desire. 19:02.917 --> 19:04.019 [SPEAKER_03]: So what's your thoughts on that? 19:04.039 --> 19:07.003 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I can't tell you how many women have told me. 19:07.023 --> 19:10.268 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to wear lingerie. 19:10.248 --> 19:15.577 [SPEAKER_02]: And they, they are kind of asking permission, you know, is it okay if I don't wear lingerie? 19:16.418 --> 19:31.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha 19:31.763 --> 19:45.101 [SPEAKER_02]: And exactly what you said, if we're focused on being a certain way, and especially focus on how it looks to our partner, then we're not in our body, we're not actually enjoying the experience. 19:45.281 --> 19:50.228 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of partners get very turned on by their partners, 19:50.208 --> 19:50.629 [SPEAKER_02]: pleasure. 19:50.669 --> 20:01.271 [SPEAKER_02]: So the biggest gift we can give our partner is actually just enjoying ourselves, just enjoying it fully, and I suggest to never fake anything. 20:01.572 --> 20:07.103 [SPEAKER_02]: Because one thing is, your noise is, for example, they teach your partner, 20:07.083 --> 20:09.005 [SPEAKER_02]: what you like and what you don't like. 20:09.245 --> 20:16.233 [SPEAKER_02]: In general, but also in that moment, I know there's certain times of the month where my breasts do not want to be touched at all. 20:16.574 --> 20:24.142 [SPEAKER_02]: And certain times where I'm like, well, you can touch the tissue, but not the nipples, just depending on my own hormonal cycle, just as one example. 20:24.643 --> 20:35.976 [SPEAKER_02]: So if, if you know my partner's touching me in a certain way, and I'm like, oh, oh, that's so good, but it doesn't, then it just, it makes the experience 20:35.956 --> 20:40.661 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like your noises, give your partner information of what feels good. 20:41.122 --> 20:44.265 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're silent, it's pretty much usually an indication. 20:44.586 --> 20:49.751 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't feel that great or you're so present in the moment you're just, you know, silent. 20:50.352 --> 20:51.373 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's the thing. 20:51.413 --> 21:00.183 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just it's like being so connected to our own body, so connected with our partner that it's almost like we're dancing. 21:00.243 --> 21:01.525 [SPEAKER_02]: I call it almost like this. 21:01.865 --> 21:05.389 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a sacred dance of love and connection. 21:05.369 --> 21:09.354 [SPEAKER_02]: when we are having sex with someone, at least when love is involved. 21:09.574 --> 21:22.250 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, and it would work with people that they fake the orgasm for decades, like we find ourselves in these roles, and then it would be hard to break from it. 21:22.310 --> 21:26.635 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we had my husband and I were at this conversation about like if someone is 21:26.615 --> 21:38.974 [SPEAKER_03]: faking orgasm for like out of 10 years, 20 years, would it be better if you come forward now, like I've been faking it for 20 years, or like you start changing things starting today. 21:39.074 --> 21:46.786 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm enough, of course, it different between couples to couples, but if you're doing something that's just not working for us. 21:46.986 --> 21:54.057 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, for example, we pretend to be this loud, kind of like sexual person, and in reality, you're just 21:54.037 --> 21:56.982 [SPEAKER_03]: How can we change the pattern? 21:57.042 --> 22:04.894 [SPEAKER_03]: Would you recommend people to tell their partners that they're like we're changing patterns or something that you kind of want to do it? 22:05.034 --> 22:06.877 [SPEAKER_03]: How would you recommend people to approach that? 22:06.897 --> 22:11.083 [SPEAKER_02]: I would recommend a very loving positive approach to this. 22:11.344 --> 22:15.370 [SPEAKER_02]: So my instinct is yes, come clean and say, 22:15.350 --> 22:21.437 [SPEAKER_02]: actually I want some a different but instead of saying hey I've been faking all these years I didn't actually like that. 22:21.778 --> 22:40.581 [SPEAKER_02]: I would just say it in a more positive way like hey I've been really thinking and what we've been doing is fine but actually I'm kind of craving this instead what if we try this so see what we don't have to say that isn't working for me but just kind of say I've changed my mind I actually want this. 22:40.561 --> 22:51.334 [SPEAKER_02]: And that has a tendency for our partner not to go into shame and shut down because that would be really startling to suddenly realize that the partner has been faking all the time. 22:52.135 --> 23:00.225 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm saying this all with a grain of salt because I feel like the honesty and authenticity is the most important thing even if it's saying. 23:00.545 --> 23:08.695 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've been faking for years, but I really want to enjoy this more 23:08.675 --> 23:16.432 [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I'm giving two different options there, but see which one feels feels the best, but definitely don't fake. 23:16.673 --> 23:25.192 [SPEAKER_02]: It's understandable why people fake and also at the base level, you deserve pleasure and deserve to feel good. 23:25.292 --> 23:27.898 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just kind of how can you grow from here? 23:27.878 --> 23:28.699 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 23:28.719 --> 23:35.708 [SPEAKER_03]: And it kind of like, as you said, we're training our partners to do something that's not working for us, right? 23:35.748 --> 23:37.250 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's part of it. 23:37.390 --> 23:47.523 [SPEAKER_03]: And also I see many people feel resentful, like a longer term toward the partner, like, you know, I've been faking gifts, like, something I do for my partner, how come they don't understand. 23:47.563 --> 23:51.388 [SPEAKER_03]: And when in a reality, like, I think we have to take a count of bulletiel, 23:51.368 --> 23:59.219 [SPEAKER_03]: We, in a way, come, you were communicating something that was inaccurate, and kind of like part of it is also on us. 23:59.860 --> 24:04.867 [SPEAKER_03]: I think now sometimes when we are in a long-term partnership, we want to have desire. 24:04.967 --> 24:16.363 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I had so many people on part of practice saying that if there was a medication I could take or something that's why I like people are kind of like always in the doctors appointment to help me feel desire. 24:16.383 --> 24:19.047 [SPEAKER_03]: I would 1,000% do it. 24:19.027 --> 24:35.972 [SPEAKER_03]: But as we know desires and something that you force, the more that you try to force it, sometimes you might feel more behind, what actually help it, like if someone had some desires and now they're not experiencing it now, how can they cultivate it now? 24:36.121 --> 24:38.025 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, one is a simple practice. 24:38.246 --> 24:41.753 [SPEAKER_02]: I call it the 28 minute cuddle and connect. 24:42.034 --> 24:42.815 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so simple. 24:43.677 --> 24:47.465 [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, get into bed with your partner, close on and cuddle. 24:47.966 --> 24:52.235 [SPEAKER_02]: For 20 to 30 minutes, start off with just talking about your days. 24:52.716 --> 24:53.117 [SPEAKER_02]: Just, 24:53.097 --> 25:00.948 [SPEAKER_02]: Simply sharing how is your day, this is how mine was, and then just rest, even in silence, but there's nothing sexual happening. 25:00.968 --> 25:18.531 [SPEAKER_02]: You're just cuddling and connecting, and that period will help your nervous system shift from sympathetic, go, go, go mode into the parasympathetic, relax and receive mode, because we have to be in parasympathetic nervous system to really feel turned on. 25:18.511 --> 25:20.413 [SPEAKER_02]: Which I find fascinating. 25:20.433 --> 25:23.557 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like turn on to me feels like igniting something, right? 25:23.577 --> 25:28.302 [SPEAKER_02]: Like lighting a fire, but we've got to feel relaxed and landed our body first. 25:28.983 --> 25:32.387 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's just a really simple practice that couples can try. 25:32.908 --> 25:42.038 [SPEAKER_02]: And if it's not something you want to do with your partner, just take 20 to 30 minutes by yourself to just relax or go for a short walk, few yoga poses, 25:42.018 --> 25:47.709 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where another important practice is to schedule more time for sex. 25:48.150 --> 25:51.056 [SPEAKER_02]: I suggest at least one to four hours. 25:51.757 --> 25:56.687 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I know we all have busy schedule, so when I say that, some people look at me like I'm crazy. 25:57.268 --> 26:02.558 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you think about just the time, so if we need, let's say 20 to 30 minutes just to relax. 26:02.740 --> 26:12.922 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, women, once you start the foreplay, women typically would need maybe another 20 to 45 minutes of foreplay before intercourse feels really good. 26:13.303 --> 26:20.479 [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're at, let's say, at least 45 minutes to over an hour before intercourse has even started. 26:20.459 --> 26:40.662 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it sounds like a stretch, but a lot of the sex that is being had is more of that kind of masculine mode of go-go, go, rush to the goal, have an orgasm and then you're done, whereas Volvo owners tend to be very multi-orgasmic. 26:40.760 --> 27:05.130 [SPEAKER_02]: When allowed the time, the space, the safety, the relaxation and the permission to have orgasm, after orgasm, of course, not that it's all about orgasms, but I'm just saying one simple thing that can shift it is try and hour, at least try to two hour block and just notice if that starts to feel, 27:05.110 --> 27:08.759 [SPEAKER_02]: more satisfying and if desire starts to come back online. 27:08.779 --> 27:16.096 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that kind of like having this container that they can do ritual, you can connect with your partner, you can see what comes up. 27:16.577 --> 27:22.090 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it can be more meaningful and kind of like you might get surprised on your right. 27:22.110 --> 27:23.052 [SPEAKER_03]: I like maybe 27:23.032 --> 27:32.711 [SPEAKER_03]: you have like two hours and you feel like we have this enough time to kind of like explore things, connection, connecting, and so we don't need to rush. 27:33.232 --> 27:34.715 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's can be very powerful. 27:34.775 --> 27:44.955 [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes you'll write that maybe kind of we are in that high-per-vigilant place, like we are that fight-down-flight, and our nervous system doesn't shift as much. 27:44.935 --> 27:50.420 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we have that time and then I often recommend people to say like I'm complete, all right? 27:50.460 --> 27:54.303 [SPEAKER_03]: Like if you might not get the experience orgasm, but like the experience is complete. 27:54.823 --> 27:57.846 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think on it's own, that's also, that's okay. 27:58.386 --> 28:05.453 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's just a matter of the first step, kind of like exactly what you were talking about, creating that container can be very powerful. 28:05.753 --> 28:08.555 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that like that 20 minutes that you recommend. 28:08.595 --> 28:14.200 [SPEAKER_03]: So people can even do also kind of like hard to hard connection. 28:14.180 --> 28:18.584 [SPEAKER_03]: This is not a time to bring up like tasks, chores, right? 28:19.866 --> 28:20.987 [SPEAKER_03]: That can be stressful. 28:21.067 --> 28:27.733 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially if you have like children at other time, maybe that could be a time that like, you know, you're bringing on like items in your agenda. 28:28.154 --> 28:29.895 [SPEAKER_03]: And that could be counterproductive. 28:30.396 --> 28:31.217 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so true. 28:31.557 --> 28:34.480 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really loving you because my partner and I got into this. 28:34.520 --> 28:36.462 [SPEAKER_01]: We would start our cuddling and connecting. 28:36.502 --> 28:38.484 [SPEAKER_01]: And then all of a sudden, we're just talking about work. 28:38.984 --> 28:43.849 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're just like, oh, this is not good. 28:43.829 --> 28:45.050 [SPEAKER_03]: And I have to catch myself. 28:45.170 --> 28:46.111 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm no divergent. 28:46.131 --> 28:47.272 [SPEAKER_03]: So I can collect all of this. 28:47.332 --> 28:50.635 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking about taxes, like all sorts of things. 28:51.316 --> 28:55.719 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like how cool to kind of like laugh about it and come back to it. 28:55.759 --> 28:58.782 [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be playful about ourselves and our partner. 28:58.822 --> 29:01.745 [SPEAKER_03]: So I know that you have a lot of great content. 29:01.765 --> 29:09.131 [SPEAKER_03]: I know you have a TEDx talk, you have all sorts of great spaces that people can have access to your content. 29:09.151 --> 29:12.334 [SPEAKER_03]: So what are some of the places 29:12.314 --> 29:17.801 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so my TEDx talk is called money and sex, this surprising connection. 29:17.821 --> 29:23.228 [SPEAKER_02]: So you can go to YouTube and just search money and sex TEDx talk. 29:23.248 --> 29:23.808 [SPEAKER_02]: It'll come up. 29:24.489 --> 29:34.021 [SPEAKER_02]: And then also if you go to my website, which is Courtney, say, long.com, then I've got resources on there of quiz that you can take. 29:34.182 --> 29:38.507 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also offer complimentary sex life makeover sessions. 29:38.487 --> 29:45.951 [SPEAKER_02]: So if anything, I've said, your lights you up and you might like to explore more it's essentially like a free consultation where we look at where are you now? 29:46.433 --> 29:50.927 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you really crave in your sex life and create a bridge to help you get there? 29:51.211 --> 29:51.912 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that. 29:51.972 --> 29:55.656 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I make sure that the link is in the show now. 29:55.696 --> 30:02.024 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Courtney coming to this show was lovely to have you on and hopefully we have you enough future show. 30:02.044 --> 30:03.566 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, I would love that so much. 30:03.586 --> 30:04.747 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me. 30:04.787 --> 30:05.868 [SPEAKER_02]: You're just amazing. 30:05.928 --> 30:07.010 [SPEAKER_02]: I just love your work. 30:07.050 --> 30:08.632 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just feel so honored to be here. 30:09.353 --> 30:13.177 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, likewise appreciate you and all the wonderful content you're putting in the walk. 30:13.698 --> 30:14.839 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much. 30:18.903 --> 30:21.488 [SPEAKER_03]: As you wrap up, I want to leave you with this. 30:22.049 --> 30:25.355 [SPEAKER_03]: Sex isn't just about pleasure, it's about connection. 30:26.057 --> 30:34.052 [SPEAKER_03]: For many couples, sexual intimacy is one of the primary ways they feel close, chosen and emotionally connected. 30:34.392 --> 30:38.380 [SPEAKER_03]: And when that part of the relationship slowly fades, 30:38.360 --> 30:44.354 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not just about less sex, over time the emotional connection can start to fade too. 30:44.694 --> 30:50.468 [SPEAKER_03]: Not for everyone, but for many people, those two are deeply linked. 30:50.488 --> 30:55.980 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why it's so important not to ignore desire when it shifts or disappears. 30:56.129 --> 31:03.702 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not something to push through or avoid, it's something to understand, tend to and rebuild in a way that feels authentic. 31:04.103 --> 31:10.414 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you are in the place where you're thinking, I want to reconnect, but I don't know where to start. 31:10.955 --> 31:13.800 [SPEAKER_03]: Make sure that you're downloading my freebook. 31:14.160 --> 31:21.613 [SPEAKER_03]: It's called a woman's guide to reviving sex drive, and it's based on the most common challenges I see in my clients. 31:21.593 --> 31:25.562 [SPEAKER_03]: and the practical evidence-based solutions that actually help. 31:25.582 --> 31:28.348 [SPEAKER_03]: You can download it using the link in the show notes. 31:28.669 --> 31:35.283 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being here for caring about your relationship and for being open to doing this deeper work. 31:35.584 --> 31:38.691 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll see you in the next episode of a Sexology podcast. 31:39.278 --> 31:42.865 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening to Sixology Podcasts. 31:43.306 --> 31:50.159 [SPEAKER_03]: For more great content, visit www.sixologypodcast.com. 31:50.801 --> 32:00.139 [SPEAKER_03]: Please be advised that information presented on this podcast is not a substitute for seeking help from a licensed mental health provider.