[SPEAKER_00]: This April to 25th, there's a march, it's called purple stride and it's a benefit for pancreatic cancer patients and their families and their loved ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a campaign, it's called a team trek, made up of myself and Kitty and Jonathan Friggs and John Billingsley and Carlos Coto.
[SPEAKER_00]: and we hope that all of you out there would be interesting enough to take a look at our campaign to raise money for pancreatic cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go to www.purplestride.org slash team trek and there you can see all the information you can make a contribution and we would very much appreciate it
[SPEAKER_00]: all the people who were affected by a pancreatic cancer, the third most mortal cancer out there would appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So please think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please go to that site and contribute if you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can't tell other people about the March on April the 25th, purple strides, there are 50 marches around the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just being part of that March is a huge benefit for all the people who are suffering from pancreatic cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey through the wormhole with cork Dax and their good friends, Tom and Harry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, you had some dramatic pauses there before each name.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, who else is going to be on this?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's us.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're just so excited to see each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you noticed my hat I'm wearing today?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I thought it was Wonder Woman at first, but it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's from your fan club.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from my fan club back in the 90s random flight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got the official hat that they made up.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the original hat.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is from the 90s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they made it up for the club members, because I wore baseball hats so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: They made baseball hats.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me let me be a little descriptive for those who are listening to the podcast, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Robbie's hat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's basically a red hat with a black bill.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the very doing event or white.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's doing event or very event or white.
[SPEAKER_02]: The very center, the actual logo.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's a combat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of adult, it's got the Delta, the Star Trek Chevron with two wings kind of coming out of the side, the Chevron.
[SPEAKER_02]: gold wings, the top of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a silver, silver combat or Chevron with gold wings.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it says random flight above the each wing, random above one wing, flight above the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got why random flight.
[SPEAKER_01]: They took RDM my initials and made a word out of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's what a D is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how the D is capitalized.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And random flight.
[SPEAKER_01]: has officially shut down at the end of our series, but Ethan Phillips has kept it alive and spirit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he wears the buttons from the club that I gave him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He text me constantly about the news of the club and he has kept it alive and spirit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's so sweet man.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got birthday.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Stephanie Aves April 20th is the special day that Stephanie was born.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we're celebrating you Stephanie happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy birthday Stephanie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday Stephanie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoo.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Next up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say a big happy birthday to Ryan
[SPEAKER_04]: Ryan Mayhew.
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy Happy Birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy Birthday Ryan.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have Shomba Vee Adam on April 26th.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shomba Vee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy Birthday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shomba Vee.
[SPEAKER_04]: What a beautiful name.
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy Happy Birthday to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Shomba Vee.
[SPEAKER_02]: I miss you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy Birthday to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy Birthday Shomba Vee.
[SPEAKER_02]: Potrytime, Robbie with y'all or Limerick play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a nice lemric for ties of blood and water.
[SPEAKER_01]: Goes a little something like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gamor arrives with a need, unmet.
[SPEAKER_01]: He shares secrets he could never forget.
[SPEAKER_01]: Goldacott was self-assured, making sure the truth was obscured.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kira healed the pain of her deepest regret.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Try any this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to get a lot of story in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not it's I like the ones that are simpler, but I got a lot of story.
[SPEAKER_01]: You did you did.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like it when you kind of like mix it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes you're more just about the theme.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but now that it's other times you cover more ground.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I felt like I had to cover ground here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a black one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually felt like I needed a pre production meeting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I watched it twice in there are moments where I thought I wanted to call you guys and can we talk about it a little before we're doing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_04]: Help me with writing my poem because it felt
[SPEAKER_04]: like I really related to not the particular situation that carries in, but that holding your secrets so far down that you don't even see what you're keeping from yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then when they get revealed, it's like it kind of takes your breath away.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then healing can begin.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear your poem.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, yes, with that little intro, I really do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no, imagine they mount a paper all over my living room right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Drop it on us, lay it on us, let's hear it on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ties of blood and water, unique familial bonds of love, shamefully we hide our truth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we worthy of forgiveness, even love?
[SPEAKER_04]: Events crashing us into our secrets, excruciating shame, pain, forcing deep contemplation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Contents of our vault uncontrollably spilling.
[SPEAKER_04]: Courageously accepting our actions, our fragility.
[SPEAKER_04]: We resolve to see ourselves as we are, flawed, complex, beings.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a poet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I like your poem better than the episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're actually done with this recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was wonderful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good morning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good afternoon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good evening.
[UNKNOWN]: Good night.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great job.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me let me round off this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so excited about the hike.
[SPEAKER_02]: The hike is the caboose to this poetry train.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gamor will pass soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has secrets to divulge.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Reese doesn't run.
[SPEAKER_02]: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
[SPEAKER_02]: Thomas Kapachi as Kira Tabon now, interestingly enough, Kapachi's done a mall.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems he did TNG in 1994, Voyager in 1996, and then was hired to play the father to Kira in the race in 1997.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he kind of... Can I ask, is this the only time we see him?
[SPEAKER_04]: as her father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't remember seeing him before we do not see him before this is the first time we've seen his her father right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not know if he appears in another flashback in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wish he could have said more to her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, other than don't leave right, I mean, it'd be great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And writing and pain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Next up on guest stars, we have William Lucking as Farrell, and the lovely Jeffrey Combs are friend as Wei Yun, co-star, one co-star, Rick Schatz as a medic, a little bit of trivia here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robert Hewitt Wolf drew inspiration from his own life experiences when writing this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Quote, it was probably one of the more personal things I've ever written.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about Kira trying to take care of this guy while he's dying and remembering how she feels like.
[SPEAKER_02]: She let her real biological father down.
[SPEAKER_02]: She missed his death by a few hours, and I missed my own mother's death by a day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had finals at school.
[SPEAKER_02]: She told me to stay through finals, and she passed away from cancer while I was gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something I've always regretted, and I thought that it was an interesting story to tell.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was tough for me to write, to tell you the truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very personal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's so heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can understand Robert Huit Wolf really struggling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's maybe why I struggle with this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm being honest, I'll spoiler alert.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that this episode has potential for some real depth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that I felt it for a number of reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I felt it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Robert Huit Wolf because it was so personal, sort of would only go so far
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if the direction supported the depth and the complexity of this kind of regret and shame and all of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel a little bit like this episode to me under delivered on the promise of this story.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you've experienced it, your expectations are higher because you know how it felt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: One more piece of trivia before we jump into this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Rock Loughton does not appear in this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: although where would he be in this one?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say just to relate my story as an 18-year-old losing my mother, Jake lost his mother as a child.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a great place for him in this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I forgot about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't know the way through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's those kind of things that I think are missed opportunities and
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, anyway, like a combo between Kira and Jake.
[SPEAKER_02]: We said, like a little, just interaction between those two.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, talking about his loss even just seeing Avery.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just go talk to his son about maybe what Kira's going through.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it makes Jake's looking for Kira for a reason for school project or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but somehow involved Jake talking to some.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thank you for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this episode starts off.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're kind of in the hallways in the airlock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kira is taking Dax and Warf to go meet Gamor.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she's catching them up, and this felt like a bit for the audience here, like, if felt a little blatantly, like, instead of doing a recap, we're going to have Kira go, you know, this is important, Dax,
[SPEAKER_01]: no one better qualified to lead the opposition like it's just literally backstory and simple exposition yeah and i i have to admit you know you're walking them down the hall and avery right out of the gate chose to be on your backs and the cameras following you guys and i was like
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't see her face.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't see anyone's reaction to this information.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that immediately, I was like, oh, I wish we had been on the other side and
[SPEAKER_01]: been ahead of them so that we could see their faces and anyway that kind of bugged me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is your very first scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the scene that should pop.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has a director and you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was awkward and then as it continues, it was either.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a teaser.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, that's what's was to catch your interest, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And when it's not directed, it's not blocked very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not shot very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's, and I'm not, I'm typically not a nitpicker, but this annoyed the heck out of me, especially the reveal of Gamora was, okay, so you can see him in the distance, like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is not the way you, you, you kind of, you've got a great tension.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I really thought too that especially because being reminded of second skin, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I really wish there would have been a tiny recap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're like, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like a recap in the dialogue and they should have just done a recap.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been more emotionally impactful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It would remind us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because also we're watching them very tight together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's easy to remember.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you are watching this back in the day,
[SPEAKER_04]: it would have been a long time between these episodes and it would merit the reminder.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what if you missed that episode?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they could have done it in a to Garrett's point in a flashy teaser.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the opening of your show.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could have done something where they're walking and Kira's not saying anything and Daxon wore for asking questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is this guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, who is this guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was he a good guy or a bad guy and then flash to a flashback?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: and they keep walking and you don't hear Kira say a word.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, Worf says, well, wait a minute if he was part of a dissident movement and what about this and flashback and flashback and flashback, it could have been much more dynamic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hop, hop, hop, that is so awesome, especially because they use that in the storytelling of her having flashbacks.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that also would have been great in the teaser to just have us be in her mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like Kira's overly effusive kind of welcome of him, the warmth was beyond warmth.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like they were the closest, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then it's revealed they haven't spoken for a long time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they found an information about each other from other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're that close, how are they not in constant contact?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got confused.
[SPEAKER_01]: I literally, for a second, had to pause it and go, wait, I had to remind myself, like, did I miss something?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I know that
[SPEAKER_01]: He, I remember when that episode seconds can happen, but I didn't remember them being that close or like fun warmth, you know, it felt like they had a history of the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're getting missed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was giddy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if there was a progression rate.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if there was a progression from second skin to this episode, it would have been nice if they had Laura's pressman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just have small scenes with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: in between these two episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would have helped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they have this warm reunion and Dax and Gamora, you know, head off.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we cut to Gamora's quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here showing him his quarter.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dax and War have head off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, DAX and Morph head off.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just for the red color listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you say the red carpet line, you're trying to make a joke with her, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to make a joke with her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know if that landed on her because her DAX, this is important line, was not.
[SPEAKER_02]: it was it wasn't acknowledging as a joke.
[SPEAKER_04]: What that telegraphs to me, her not getting the joke, is that she's all of this over excitement.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nerves underneath it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, no, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: That explains things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That helps.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's nervous.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's over compensating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're in Gamor's quarters and Kira's showing him around and in this scene, she assures him that they're gonna find his real daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: She checked with Bajor and she's security, there's no leads yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks that she's dead, but she says no, if she's alive, she's been undercover on Bajor for so long now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just hard to find.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like 10 years?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but also over a decade.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I, as a parent, I would, there's a point where you have to start letting go because well, especially what you're about to reveal about him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's not a remain reason why he's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely there because she asked him to be there, isn't that the whole, yeah, yeah, she, she, she's got a plan for him to come to the station and counter DuCott and all this
[SPEAKER_01]: and he ends the scene saying no, that's not going to work because I'm dying.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if he found out after they'd already made plans?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, or maybe he wanted to come tell her in person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's part of it, but I think it might have been a serendipitous thing, even though they don't explain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's got a Cardassian syndrome called Yaram Felson, whatever that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is crazy because that's a name of someone who I used to be very close friends with back in the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: His first name?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yaram.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just a name.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I heard the Yaram Felson from, I'm like, what?
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a new friend named Yarik.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yarik.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to start calling Robbie Yorabi from now on, so let's just throw this in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in Hamlet, he talks to the scholars, his last poor Yorick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yorick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yorick.
[SPEAKER_02]: A last poor Yorick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We cut to the infirmary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bashir tells Gomor, he's very sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's not sure how much time he has left.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's run a bunch of tests.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I can try some treatments.
[SPEAKER_01]: It may help.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Gamora is very sorry that he can't help Kira with her plans and Kira says it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to focus on getting well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can see that Kira, you know, now the priority is his health.
[SPEAKER_04]: But listen to the denial, we need to focus on you getting well.
[SPEAKER_04]: He has a terminal disease.
[SPEAKER_04]: So she is living in the denial of what we're about to uncover through the whole story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'd be with you here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say I'm impressed with pressmen who plays good more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's difficult for an actor.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think to play terminally ill.
[SPEAKER_02]: it's not easy because it's a state of being not a real you know it's but he does it well because he is off a little compared to his uh... when we saw him in the prior episode uh... on kardasia and it's a second skin he's a much more alive and full of life vibrant vibrancy that's exactly the way and this actor totally
[SPEAKER_01]: the minute he walked on the station I said wow he's going to die like he and he just he took on that persona the energy of it everything so I just want to give Kudos to Lawrence Pressman you know what absolutely if I was if you know my rule about characters dying in Joe's if they cough really in the answer yes yes my rule I would have had him cough had one cough he gives Kara ha when he first gets there and so yeah
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right in the, right in the turbo lift.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's all in, yeah, it's all in all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: But hey, Garrett, let me just ask you, haven't you been very sick ever, where you thought it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you recall that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's probably.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's up to to with those things, just to try to make it possible for you, not thinking of it being so difficult.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have coffee that day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just seemed like pressman was that was painful to even speak and that's that's a good job He didn't know he's a very talented actor.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't trying to diminish that I'm just trying to offer to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not impossible for you to go to the same place No, you could you could do a story like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we could do a podcast episode where you up here
[SPEAKER_01]: to be sick and you're coughing a lot, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then everybody's gonna think at the end of the podcast episode, oh no, Garrett's gonna, he's not gonna make it to the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you surprise everybody and you're like, I was just acting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Robert, excuse me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Robert was just acting.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just acting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go to the next scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we're very relieved.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's our story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Back to our story.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the captain's office.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco is giving a captain's log when he is interrupted.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Brian calls.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a call from to caught.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he takes the phone call.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco kind of teases Ducat about his title in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ducat says, no, I prefer a goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more hands on than leg it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He even proposes the other alternatives, like president, emperor, first minister, but he just prefers goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so humble.
[SPEAKER_01]: So humble.
[SPEAKER_02]: Emperor Dukat has a ring to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Cisco responds, how about Dominion puppet?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I like.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't that great?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dukat wants good more.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows he's on the station.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco basically at the end of the scene says, we don't have a treaty with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of extradition treaty.
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't get your hopes up.
[SPEAKER_01]: at the end of the scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he hangs up on him.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about him.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you like Avery's kind of very stern Cardassia's never agreed to an extradition with Bayjor or the Federation?
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't get your hopes up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of did it all over.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I did too.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like he hardly ever gets to have that kind of playfulness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So in this situation where he really has gold to cop by the
[SPEAKER_01]: by the things, by the parts, by his Kardashians.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he can feel free to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I liked it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was classic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's sort of in the bad guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: and he didn't get in trouble for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now we got a little spice on Cisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go to Gamora's quarters again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gamora now is holding Yoshi, baby, Yoshi, and the baby is not crying.
[SPEAKER_04]: But could you tell that it wasn't really the baby until the one shot?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was going to say, because you mentioned, it doesn't cry, and then I said, it doesn't cry when being held by aliens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Warfell the baby.
[SPEAKER_02]: It stopped crying when he had in the baby to jake as human.
[SPEAKER_02]: It started to cry handing it to so it's always funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the opposite of armans theory in real life armans said babies would always cry around forengies or cling on makeup cling on makeups
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_01]: But in Star Trek, babies only cry around humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: They terrify babies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm so glad I was an alien.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have made me feel real sad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The one thing that he did say, he said, of a certain age.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a super newborn, you don't cry around aliens, but when you get older, then you cry around aliens, like one, two years ago.
[SPEAKER_04]: Holy cow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cry around humans.
[SPEAKER_01]: They cry around humans terrify me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You hide it well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the babies not crying.
[SPEAKER_01]: They discussed Kira having kids in the scene, Gamor and Kira do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kira takes the baby to put it down in the other room.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, uh, Gomaard has mentioned in the scene he knows about Shikar, so we, we realize that they've been keeping up, he's been keeping up up on her, you know, and anybody that has knew other people, yeah, and to each other that felt like, I wish that was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like off camera story that we missed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you had a cheat a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have rather had, like, remember the last time I told, remember when we, we talked about Chicago and yes, or maybe she could say, oh, I forgot.
[SPEAKER_04]: I told you about that, you know, or something, but just so that there'd be,
[SPEAKER_04]: at least in her minute contact instead of finding out through other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that feels, it felt like a night.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it doesn't feel like a authentic connection.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I found this seemed to be interesting because it is Kira Narees introducing her father, who's not her biological father, to her son who's not her biological son.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, interesting, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: pretty interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do mean the familial connection.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, family that's not blood.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Cara does tell, uh, tell, uh, more of that to caught once him extra dieted in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where he suggests that he share his secrets.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tradition for Kardashians before they died to tell,
[SPEAKER_01]: a family member, kind of their secrets, the skeletons in the closet.
[SPEAKER_04]: About their enemies so that their family member can go use that information.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually liked that idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called Shretal, the Chardesian tradition of Shretal.
[SPEAKER_01]: but it also shows that he's treating her like family.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be my daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an honor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, I like that when he said be my daughter one more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very sweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go to Captain's office, Cisco encourages Kira to listen to these secrets.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we see that she's not sure if she wants to take on this responsibility, but Cisco says he could share a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could give us a lot more intelligence on Kira to ask you than we've gotten in five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kira's nervous, she says, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he's chosen the right person.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if I get to involved or I don't ask the right questions?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she suggests, maybe he can talk to a counselor or even, oh, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Cisco says, no, he wants, he doesn't want to be debrief.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to talk with someone important, basically.
[SPEAKER_04]: that will be with him till the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we see her first flashback with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, now the scene ends.
[SPEAKER_04]: She definitely has emotional eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just a little watery in her eyes to see the conflict.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we go to the flashback first time we're seeing a flashback of her with her actual father.
[SPEAKER_04]: um, badly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't know who it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's at some injured man and then she goes over to him and she says father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when we realize, oh my God, that's her job.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me go back to the office, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because the flashback happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: The flashback happens when they're still, he's still talking to her.
[SPEAKER_02]: She has the flashback, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he takes her out of the flashback by
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's where you see her motion.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's where we see the tie of her real father and her serrigate father, really.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we go back to Gamor's quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it looks like a hospital room now.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've set up all this medical equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bashir is explaining to cure the pain killer machine instructions here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I have one of those machines, please?
[SPEAKER_02]: With the, but I mean, that's a awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to get that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just to feel okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: He made it happy juice.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you have to have a terminal illness to have to get a morphine drink.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it might not really work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know if you want that machine.
[SPEAKER_04]: But definitely do not.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is not going to shame you want to know a lot about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Bisher gives the instructions and says you can call for a nurse if he any help.
[SPEAKER_01]: He takes off and then immediately the first thing here does is try to give him some water and she spills it all over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can tell that she's nervous about this responsibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: She can't even give him water, it spills.
[SPEAKER_04]: I honestly though, I was thinking, well, why don't they have a straw?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, okay, maybe not everywhere else, but but don't bring this man laying in bed.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's such an easy thing to settle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be futuristic metal straw.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have plenty in my drawer, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but 1990s.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they even made that back then.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he starts to share some secrets.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he's got some pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: She gets pushes the button, gives him some medicine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she has another flashback here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is back to the Bejorn Resistance where her real dad, Taban, is it Taban?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it looks like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: T-A-A-N.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't look wishy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't I don't know if there's happen or to bond.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know if anyone said it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If there's two vowels with only one consonant in the middle with the first A. I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like a demon word playman word playman.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey, Ben.
[SPEAKER_02]: God, while we rely on you, let's go off of watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch, watch watch, watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch watch
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's go with Cibon to put on the father.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Gamora's in pain in the present, and then that pain triggers her memory of Tabon, who's in pain, who father, who father, who real-life father.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, Narees don't leave me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was such a fool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to talk to the Kardashians.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were setting fire to the village, and Kira's so angry.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, I'm going to make them pay for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I promise.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is where I wish there were, was some more dialogue from this point to the rest of the flashbacks with her father.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And something more intimate, because he feels like he's on his deathbed.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then I think also, if he was talking about something intimate, that would also increase the amount of pain and explain the running from the emotion.
[SPEAKER_04]: right from the reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as he tried to talk about her as a little girl or some memory, something very personal and yes, I remember the first time I was proud of you and something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that would have been really nice to build that relationship a little more deeply.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're invested.
[SPEAKER_04]: But maybe that was part of what was a little scary for Robert, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: When he was writing it, this would have been very difficult.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said it was difficult for him to write.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he says stay with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says he doesn't want to be alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we come out of the flashback back in Mark's quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's asleep now, though, and she, uh, she ends the interview.
[SPEAKER_01]: He must have just fallen asleep.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been talking while she's been having this flashback.
[SPEAKER_01]: and he's asleep, she turns off her recorder, and we go into the captain's office where Kira's talking to Cisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought she was great in this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: This, they were sitting very close.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very simple.
[SPEAKER_01]: And her voice sounded like authentically tired, which I'm sure, Nena had just had a baby a few years before, she probably was a dog.
[SPEAKER_04]: She actually sounded like she lost her voice a little.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it did.
[SPEAKER_04]: She might have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Two kids under five, a baby, investor was still, I mean, they're like toddlers under five.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She must have been really tired.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is the first episode where an eye is wearing her normal, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed that right away, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she looks amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She looks incredible.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's such a good care of herself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she feels Cisco in and what she's learned so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco says, great start.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Bashir calls and says, come to Gomorrah immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kira, I was worried.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was over now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go into his quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's really bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she quickly starts asking more questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he asked for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, ask me questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have much time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she says you were talking reminds him.
[SPEAKER_04]: You were talking about the Supreme Tribunal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, let me just quickly read a little thing about Lawrence Pressedman, the actor that uh, particularly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gamor.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, this is, um, this is from Star Trek Monthly and the title of this article is so cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is back for Gamor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so Lawrence Pressman was impressed by Avery Brooks direction of the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pressman commented, quote, Avery's a man who keeps to himself not somebody who chats easily, but as a director he was right there and extraordinarily helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody said to me, every talk's like jazz, it's true he does.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's more, it's brilliant jazz, wonderful stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: He gives you images and he does it through my contact with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you get the feeling of what he wants.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be so easy to go the wrong way with the character.
[SPEAKER_02]: He pushed me constantly in other directions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then pushed me even further in that direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't ask for anything more than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, glowing review.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Pressman of...
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say, yeah, he's graded eye contact and visual imaging.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you don't have like an intellectual conversation with him about something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's more abstract maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but if you don't get the abstract, so you're, I remember kind of you're like, you want to faster.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're saying, really trying to assimilate what he's, or process what he wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're super focused when you work with him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I bet you have to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never been more tired than when I was sitting in the back of a town car at a convention.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just me and him being driven to the airport and I'm sitting here just I'm like what did he just say?
[SPEAKER_02]: What did he just say?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I call him?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I phone a friend?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I can I
[SPEAKER_04]: just trying to do the conversation with everyone you're tired probably no bueno.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was tired from trying to understand him so I wasn't tired of sitting in the park.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, and you're seeing I was thinking so hard like what did that mean when he said the bird landed on the puddle you know what does that mean you know I couldn't figure it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to relax.
[SPEAKER_04]: You do.
[SPEAKER_02]: The worst of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're self.
[SPEAKER_04]: Trust yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a golf swing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't try to get them all hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But developing self-trust is not always easy, but doable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this next scene in Ops, speaking of Avery, he did a very ambitious kind of steady cam shot that pushed in on the lift as Cisco comes up and he steps off the lift, lift, asking status report, and the steady cam shot just sort of followed Cisco around
[SPEAKER_01]: up there and up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was very ambitious.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if it was as successful as giving the sort of energy that he was going for.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if that was that worked as well for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was a tricky shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to say that moving around, getting daxes, lines, warfs, lines, operions, lines that camera had a lot of movement to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And where I was sitting is where I normally sit and it's a part of Ops, if you're in his office, it's stage left.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was wild, I'm like, where am I?
[SPEAKER_04]: Am I on the defined?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember it looking like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, until he, I started when he said to battle stations and then we moved, I death was the only time I knew where we were and it's too bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't use that panel more often because it looks super cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did look cool, did look cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we learn that a gem had our battleship is approaching, it's due caught, and he wants to go more, and he wants to know what Cisco has decided, due caught pops on screen.
[SPEAKER_04]: And a super polite way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I eagerly await your decision.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I have guns pointed out your station.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you like the Battle Cruiser?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made the DS9 station look tiny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you think that was a mistake?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, we see it coming through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, probably maybe in terms of perspective, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did see the battle crews are come through with a bunch of other ships through the wormhole in a prior episode, but not a close-up like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is, and I will show it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say the Gemma-Dara is supposed to be the most brutal
[SPEAKER_02]: the warriors that you don't want to mess with, you know, but I'll be honest, their ships with all their missiles, having the pink color, I keep thinking, these are the aliens that are the breast cancer awareness aliens.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're sitting there, that's all like a think of because pink is totally associated with that chair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, talking about breast cancer checks checking for breast cancer.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're wearing pink right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm representing your representing the gym.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's nice of the dominion.
[SPEAKER_02]: The dominion is actually very conscientious about, you know, very socially conscious, yes, so yeah, I forgot that a battle cruiser, of course it's huge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is big.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got to be big, but it's not supposed to be bigger than the station.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're saying it looked probably like it looked like it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked bigger than the station to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there was even a starfleet vessel flying by the station that it looks small.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks small.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, is it a run about, though?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was a different vessel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I must have blamed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut into the captain's office.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we meet Weyun five.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is this like?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Marou five.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's sort of like the iconic way you do this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know why?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_04]: He is so, so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That make-up in the pilot eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he's new.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the new one.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the newest one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, you, you probably both saw this as well, but he's more, Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's more bubbly.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's more, he's more like champagne in this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: He would love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We both champagne and bubbly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell him when I see him next time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we'll have to tell him we'll pay for the bottle because
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, a little bit of trivia.
[SPEAKER_02]: This episode introduces William V after his death and reveals that the Vorta clone themselves, premise which was created specifically, so Jeffrey Combs could reprise his role.
[SPEAKER_02]: Iris Steven Bear explains, quote, when we first saw Jeff Combs do the role in to the death, we were wishing we could find a different ending to the episode because we really didn't want the character to die.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we couldn't think of anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: The next thing you know, they're out in Griffith Park shooting the fight and he's dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I knew immediately that he had to come back.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no way he couldn't solve it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what's great about science fiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just introduce a clone and yeah, it's like on soap operas when there's a twin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there used to be back in the day a convention that was half sci-fi half soap operas really.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so that's I thought that's perfect because those two worlds are the only two worlds who you can create anything anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can die well back to life in both.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like fantasy too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I would say I lean towards that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like game of thrones.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Things where there's magic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you can come back to life in fantasy as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So sci-fi fantasy and soaps.
[SPEAKER_01]: and Broadway musicals at Broadway musical.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for wondering if these all are connected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yes, Cisco does mention in the scene, uh, I saw you die and Williams explains here that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, or du cotix planes, the border good at cloning.
[SPEAKER_01]: To caught says he wants, go more to come back because this new dominion judicial system has cleared go more he says.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco's like, no, I think he preferred to stay here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the cuts as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go ask him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or Williams says, let's go ask him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So off they go.
[SPEAKER_01]: to Gamor's quarters, Gamor says no, no deal, because Dominion Dukot says he can find his daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Dukot's gonna be a nice guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's heard, she's alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then why didn't you bring her with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he just doesn't trust Dukot, which I don't blame him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's lying.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a liar.
[SPEAKER_01]: And wait, he owns a clone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think this question is for both of you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think to cut one a technique?
[SPEAKER_02]: So badly, what was he going to do with this dying man in his?
[SPEAKER_02]: Jim had our battle cruiser.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was he was the resistance to the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was he was somebody who people trusted.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they should.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a trophy in the wall for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, also spilling the secrets.
[SPEAKER_04]: He knows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is what's happening right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's a Kardashian girl, Goldacott knows he's going to get somebody a secret.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if he sees Cara as her, his daughter, who else would he be telling?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a chess movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is like one of the worst people in the universe, he could be telling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Cara.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Gamor says no, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not coming back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Ducaz says, well, we'll be docked a few more days if you change your mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have a montage of... Can I interrupt?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: When this finishes, and they leave, Kira goes over to Goodmore, and that's his head.
[SPEAKER_01]: His wig.
[SPEAKER_04]: His wig.
[SPEAKER_04]: Her look with a smile kind of bothered me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because he's still dying, and that had to be painful.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're good more to even hear that load of who we that not swearing that load of who he that Decott was viewing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, I mean, that's still he's still talking about his flesh and blood and I just felt like it was a I don't think it was necessarily her choice, but I thought it
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I wonder if that was an A3 pitch.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that seems like something Avery might pitch because Avery all often looks for the opposite choice that you would expect.
[SPEAKER_04]: So teachers do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, you want to find yours been on it, do the opposite of what they're asking for.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that doesn't always serve the scene in the storytelling and we're storytellers.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this smile happens as she's petting his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the point?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a look of satisfaction.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: She saved him from.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm guessing it was.
[SPEAKER_04]: She saved him from gold to caught taking him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I see.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's happy he didn't buy into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it still felt tonally off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That felt great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That just said the truth of the scene they just played.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a montage of Gamorganic Sicker and Sicker and Kira doing more and more things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, she ends up asleep at his bedside at the end of the montage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say in that montage, often when there's some camera movement, when that camera's sort of pushing in or panning, montages work really well, that feels like a,
[SPEAKER_01]: film language of time passing, these were just locked-off shots that sort of dissolved.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I missed the movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish there had been some action and camera, you know, panning and seeing her coming in and out and I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish there had been a little more to that, the montage felt a little awkward to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most montages do have that type of movement.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is a intentionally intentionally for the passage of time, like Roger said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this one had, I don't think it had any.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was pretty much locked off.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why it felt so weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a couple shots were revealed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, some shots were repeated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we go to Quarks Cafe next.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kira's up on a, on a balcony sort of,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you lost and thought perfectly said lost and thought quark off for his officer drink a bjornale or something stronger.
[SPEAKER_01]: How about a black hole?
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that drink.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to have a black hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what it is, but I have to stop that name.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a comma causey.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would definitely try it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like the War Corps breach from the Star Trek experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: The old Star Trek.
[SPEAKER_04]: Had a cocktail thing with JT on the cruise?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: The very last one was like six kinds of rum.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, six kinds of rum in one glass together.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm serious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm, no, I'm probably a ball like actually, but it was like, wow, strong.
[SPEAKER_04]: A little call.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very strong.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was repulsive.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's a black hole.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's your black.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember what it was called now.
[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't black hole, but that would have been a good name for it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Cork tries to be a little empathetic, although he does, I wish they didn't write him the line where he says, you look terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing I mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like my women a little rumpled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not a good line for quirk.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this scene, if I have a missing scene, should have been more of him having empathy for her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe it starts out and then he realizes that she's in the bad place.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe there's a little connection there with her too instead of
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the he, because then he gets to write jumps into the warm Yennex mill or Yennek milk.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, I don't know, it's an opportunity for connection here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just in the last episode, we were talking about how work has done so many nice things, good heroic things, and still a lot of characters, including Kira, not very nice to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this would have been a
[SPEAKER_01]: do something nice that she notices.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And grow beyond this sort of cure a constantly, you know, all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Childish.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's about revealing your truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Real stuff who you really are and he's making a gesture.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's a far away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was so they were so far away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have liked it better if she was sitting in a corner at the bar, and it's late at night, and he's closing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: More intimate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's closer that nobody else can hear them, but we can see it happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not so far away that we're doing a far away too shot, so I'm not in the scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not intimate, and it's kind of all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing I get out of this scene is I want to know what an en yak looks like is it is it Bejorn is it a bejorn cow is it a cardinal man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like a llama.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a llama.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's an llama.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a cousin events in llama
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, here is quarters next to caught a rye of suggest that maybe she has it all wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: This whole story on the wrong side of the story and he brings up the Kiesa monastery massacre and the scene he gives her a pad he slides it to her, which I like that blocking
[SPEAKER_01]: doesn't want to get too close to her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually like this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I like that they had the cup with that drink in it and clearly she'd been drinking it because she was very relaxed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: That telegraph to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was relaxed till she got up in his face.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just got up in his face.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that what she threw at him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, warm milk.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she drank it.
[SPEAKER_04]: There wasn't anything in it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It looked like it hit his head, but then they cut to, it did, and then hit the wall.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is how not with it I was and when watching this, I thought he had to hurt one of those information tubes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, those are two, like, you know, those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They look like a test tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, with liquid in there that they only use on DS9, I thought he slid that across the table.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that's what she threw at him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it broke.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but you start reading the pad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, Oh, where the bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come from where that come from.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was so confused.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what he drops on the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He puts the pad on the table and slides it to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I he thought he played it to those the the Jack milk.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you were probably taking notes looking down here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: That happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he gives her this pad, says that she can verify everything, she throws the cupidum hits his head, which I thought was that on purpose, or an accident, it looked painful.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it was purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She gets up in his face, though, right up in it, not 50, 52 shots, just as she will make sure that he pays for all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That felt very threatening and like, uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to see some of this later on.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was intense.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was, and I loved what he said, maybe, but not today.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not today.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that I really love that scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And after he leaves, she picks up the pad and starts to read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go into Gumors quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: He needs Kira calls for her, but she's read the pad and the story and that information she is angry.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not nice to stress.
[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't just need her.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's distressed needing her.
[SPEAKER_04]: We haven't seen him yell for her before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's very vulnerable here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's angry.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says she knows about the monastery.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he tries to explain it was war.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, they were hiding weapons for the resistance, weapons used to kill my friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was war.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was easy to hate each other during war.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he says to her, he admits you weren't monsters.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that now, we were the monsters, but it's not enough for Kira.
[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't reveal his truth because he didn't want her to hate him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we've got two people that have deep secrets because they're afraid they won't be loved if they share them.
[SPEAKER_04]: They won't, they've lost their honor with each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at this point, I assumed that he was an officer or higher rank or older, but she had not known until later what the real story is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting that he doesn't share that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't try to make excuses.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was just 19.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not my fault.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was, you know, I didn't mean he doesn't make any of those excuses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: which I thought was very honorable of him for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go to quarks, way in, is playing dobo in this scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: And dobo, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: The screen time, the lack of lines doesn't mean anything when it comes to Jeffrey Combs.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's still, he steals the scene every time.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a powerhouse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a powerhouse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Wayne loves D'Abo, D'Cott, not so much, Cisco enters with Conar meant for Gamor.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's got a bottle of this Conar, and he tells D'Cott, here, let's drink some of this Conar.
[SPEAKER_01]: D'Cott doesn't even touch the bottle, he just pushes it with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cock your hand in the cookie jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco says this is poison, do caught decline.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco says it's poison and accuses do caught of attempting to murder, go more, and then weigh in, drink it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he chugs it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He just throws the entire air.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he chugs it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, just so money.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we learn that the way you and his immune to most poisons, but he's able to taste it, the Vordar, or all immune to most poisons.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tastes it, though, and he says, yes, it's quite toxic, so he confirms.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have liked if he dipped a figure is like, yeah, it's quite toxic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Advantage it then takes a shot of it at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Show everyone he can do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, way you instills the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time we go to the promenade, Odo is pacing in front of the Bedurne shrine.
[SPEAKER_01]: His kerosene steps out.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's waiting for and says that he looked at the file of this massacre.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Gamor was only 19 years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was only one of 400 soldiers that were there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And according to the file, he might not have even fired a shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Otos very clever.
[SPEAKER_04]: We needed the scene with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's so grounded and natural and the way he delivers this, really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very tender.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he does say, if it really mattered to you, you would have looked this up yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was an interesting line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm a KO Shipper.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kira Odo.
[SPEAKER_02]: KO Shipper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the way Odo ends the scene too when Kira asks, you know, what are you trying to say?
[SPEAKER_01]: That I should go back down there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was, oh no, I wasn't saying that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's sort of...
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he asks, you know, he lets her make the decision, which is great, which is such a good friend thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't say, like, you gotta do this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kira says he lied to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought he was different, but he's just like the rest of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Odo, is he really?
[SPEAKER_04]: I've seen his file too, that part.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I would have liked that to trigger her more into the contemplation.
[SPEAKER_02]: like you wanted to see more contemplation on her face in this scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but well, just that he lied to me is he or I mean, he's just like the rest of him.
[SPEAKER_04]: She knows he isn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: She knows that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's almost like this is her way of getting out of being there at his desk.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: She found the way to like, oh, I can get mad at him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were part of the army that just killed those monks.
[SPEAKER_04]: So she's maybe a little defensive feelings or too impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go out of this question from Odo, you know, are you saying you should go back down there and she has a flashback.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her father's dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back in the caves.
[SPEAKER_01]: for L returns and not the singer, but the character for L. In my name is Ferrell.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Ferrell says they found the Cardesting Soldiers that had shot her father, basically, that it attacked them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kira's...
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to go great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You found them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go get revenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: She tells her dad, she's going to make them pay for what they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he wants her to stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, no, don't go, don't go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says I'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the actor for Rale?
[SPEAKER_04]: He, that look on his face, telegraphed everything like, you can't go with us, but he, well, he says, but I love that you, you can see it in his face, totally see it, because she says, I'll go with you, he goes, wait, are you sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, yeah, I know the area, and for all goes, we'll so to scare, uh, gant, so to scare.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she comes out and says it, they didn't shoot
[SPEAKER_02]: Terry, what a great name that would have been.
[SPEAKER_02]: Farrell Farrell.
[SPEAKER_02]: Use your last name in Farrell Farrell.
[SPEAKER_02]: Farrell Farrell.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be so scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, from this flashback, we cut back to the present and we're in Kira's quarters.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's putting candles in front of a shrine as Bashir arrives.
[SPEAKER_01]: and says, he's going to die in less than an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom, boom, boom, boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was our commercial break right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the scene continues and Bashir begs her to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you need to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to see you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bashir says, you're making a mistake.
[SPEAKER_04]: Another good friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that shrine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know she's stood in front of that shrine before, but it looks like that's an updated one to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks new.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's hope in season five.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got updated.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a little more money.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what I'm seeing as well is she still hasn't had time to contemplate and process all of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's interrupted at the shrine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now she's interrupted when for her meditation at her shrine in her
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would say to your point, Terry, that you brought up maybe for Robert Hewitt Wolf, it was a little too hard to write the script, and he admitted it in the quote, you read Garrett.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is not a scene in this episode where she comes out and processes
[SPEAKER_01]: her guilt and shame from her biological father.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's the missing scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to see that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like cheating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I thought she did process it a bit in her model.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, but when you really face something, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That guts you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know because I have.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just it's there's a release of pain that you're processing that you didn't process when it happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they're it, right, Robbie?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just missing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like guttural story.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the animal in you is just in so much pain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are super introspective dark honest.
[SPEAKER_04]: painful did just so excruciatingly painful to go through that you don't just pop up or have this calm that I'm done with that now.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This reminds me I directed my first episode that I directed Dawson's Creek was about Dawson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Avoiding his feelings about his father's death in a car accident in the previous episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole episode is about every other character is having a very emotional memory and they're processing their sadness in their grief.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dawson doesn't process it until he goes to get some milk at the store.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the guy at the counter says, oh, your dad was here the night that he died in the car accident.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was here and all he did was talk about you Dawson and the story that this guy, you know, the salesman, the guy at the little market tells about his dad the last thing It's the last thing that Dawson knows of his father was that he was bragging about how proud he was of his son.
[SPEAKER_01]: and said all these nice things, and Dawson goes out to his Jeep, and cries are hysterically, because he finally is dealing with his feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a story, that episode of Dawson's Creed has a story of avoiding, avoiding, and then finally,
[SPEAKER_01]: And I told James Vanderbeak, who sadly we lost recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I told James Vanderbeak as we were doing that episode and prepping it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, James, this is all about avoiding grief.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it will only work if you experience the grief in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked a lot about grief and about
[SPEAKER_01]: how to play that scene, and he did a phenomenal job, and I think that story worked because of that structure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Avoid avoid avoid, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom, you know it's there, and that's what's missing in this episode for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you need the emotional bomb.
[SPEAKER_01]: The tharsis.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the tharsis?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the tharsis scene is what you need to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do not get that from her monologue tearing up at that end.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was not a tharsis scene for you then.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't go far either of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but it wasn't the right direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: It should have happened before.
[SPEAKER_04]: She goes to see Gamor for the last time.
[SPEAKER_01]: This story is a powerful story, but it's very intellectual.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's because maybe Robert here at Wolfe could not go there himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said it in the quote, you read Gary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that he wanted to go there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so maybe you should have written it with another writing partner to help with processing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we do have a flashback.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is basically cure returning with for all after they've gone out to find the Kardashians that roughed up the village and shot her father and they got some payback.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were able to
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, take out five skimmers, 15 cadassian soldiers dead, you know, they they talk about that, but also this is also the scene where Kira is told that isn't this right where the actually I can't yes, he died right before she got back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that he was calling for her name right before he passed and I'm sure that dropped like a bomb
[SPEAKER_04]: She's on autopilot in that flashback, get another raid party together.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to hit those Kardashians.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's just business business.
[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't even want to have a memorial in the next year.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's digging in the grave and for El offers to organize a funeral, a memorial where everyone could say a few words about her father and she says, no, no, there's nothing left to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, Denial, Denial, Denial, she can't fit.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's too painful for her to face.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we come back to the present, Kira goes to Gomorhe, lays her head on his chest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote down, um, close up, Kira.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's the dress that would have been nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if it was in between her last flashback of her dad, this would have been a great place before she goes to good more to have her break down in front of her, uh, shrine that she has in her room.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we go back to the present, she just breaks down alone in front of the shrine to go more.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in this more quarter scene where she comes in and lays her head on his chest, it would have been nice to see a close up of her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It literally was one shot over him.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hear her off camera, say, no, we don't even hear her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do we?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, I didn't think he would come.
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, well, for a while there, neither did I off camera.
[SPEAKER_02]: Off camera, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she lies her head down.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I first thought she's listening for his, like, his heartbeat or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he, and then that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't see any close up of her reaction of her of her lying on his chest, which is what have been great.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get any emotion for a flashback scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in denial and says, I don't want to feel my feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't feel her emotions here when he's done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: He don't.
[SPEAKER_04]: We jump.
[SPEAKER_04]: We jump over all the emotions that it's like the script avoids and is in denial as much as Kara is.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we only see as much as the denial is holding that space.
[SPEAKER_04]: with the pain underneath it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope I could this.
[SPEAKER_02]: The script is as much denial as I can't hear of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we go to the infirmary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bashir ends his file recording on Gomoric.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gomoric died off camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't see it close up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't see it happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells Kira they're done here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she admits that she didn't want to face her father dying in the past and she didn't want to face
[SPEAKER_01]: um, but she said she wanted to get it right this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: She hasn't a long speech about that, which was beautifully done.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it didn't quite, I, I, at this point, I feel like we had missed a lot of story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now she's just talking about what she, now it's exposition again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we didn't see it happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: The story.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hear her talk about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's a visual medium.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are we not experiencing it through watching the characters go through it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, still it's very well written when he says when she starts talking about he's forcing you a breath and then another she started counting them the number of them and then.
[SPEAKER_02]: he was forcing, he fighting for every last second.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when she says, I don't even think he knew I was there and Bashir's response, he knew he'd get you give me that I just I love that writing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I so I think I think we better to show it now, writing was good.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, don't take away that speech at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's I think that's great, but we needed to see her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hello, we needed to experience Kira having her break through her catharsis in her room privately front of her shrine.
[SPEAKER_02]: The breakdown happens there then she's able to lay her head on out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gamors chest close up on Kira's face still wet from her breakdown theory.
[SPEAKER_02]: I from early.
[SPEAKER_02]: Black tears.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maskarateeers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like sloppy cry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think even to use my Dawson's Creek reverence, even when the characters themselves, like here, they've given care of the awareness to have this long monologue with Bashir, and she's got this awareness of, you know, I could have stayed longer, but I was, you know, there was so much pain, so much death I didn't want to face it and I ran.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's got a lot of self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they'd put all those thoughts in Bashir's mouth,
[SPEAKER_01]: and had her feeling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bashir saying, you know, it makes sense why you didn't want to be there before there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were in too much pain, you had seen death everywhere, Kira.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, you know, if someone else can say it, she could feel it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like part of it, make that, so you're saying, like, make that speech, a conversation between you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a conversation, or have someone else say, I can see you, I see you, Kira, I see what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And have them say to me, then you let her feel it in that moment as she's hearing someone else call her out on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And why not Odo again?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And not even have Bisher do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But go see her with Odo telling him what it was just nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was all over.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Odo could talk to her about her process.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also brings them close together again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's necessary to have intimate scenes that build their relationship.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the same that we assume a lot with Judziah and Warf, and there could have been little tidbits of intimate scenes, not just physical,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but real vulnerable emotional scenes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we have some, but we should have had more to it would have filled the space more so that we accept those relationships, not based on some kind of we're telling you they're in love.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is how you're supposed to think about them, but let the audience decide as they watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we go to the captain's office next to
[SPEAKER_01]: But the good news is that he embraced the new Cardesting government at the very last minute, just before he died.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Cisco says, that's not what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And do cop once the body, let's Cisco says, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: The funeral has already been arranged.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we cut down to the Bajoran resistance area,
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's buried, couldn't go more right next to her biological father.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And no worries.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just know it words.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that that grief.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I would have liked to see her face again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't show her face.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost hard to believe that she didn't want to amy for the show on any given show that she's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you don't give her close ups.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did that last scene Terry look like your fantasy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, it to me, it looked Lord of the Rings ish to me that last scene because of the gravestones were very, there were different looking.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were circular.
[SPEAKER_02]: They looked like there was some type of Elvis Roons written on them in a way.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to me, it was very Lord of the Rings ish.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did it feel too out of the rest of the story?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did that take you out?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying because you're a fan of fantasy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel that as you're asking you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you get that at all?
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt there was a peaceful, ethereal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I, I really liked it a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was a perfect, beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a beautiful, perfect ending.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I do wish we had an angle on her, especially when she's doing her
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about the theme slash lessons slash moral robbie McNeill.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote down if you get a second chance to do the right thing, take it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jennifer.
[SPEAKER_04]: Be brave enough to take inventory and move forward with that information to be a better person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to reference Robby's lesson.
[SPEAKER_02]: I find it interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: My moral from the last one.
[SPEAKER_02]: was, and I said, Spike Lee's 1989 film, Do The Right, Do The Right, Do The Right, I think it's this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that you wrote here, though, Garrett.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: If the universe gives you lemons, make lemonade is what I said.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if the universe provides you lemons,
[SPEAKER_02]: our comedy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Always.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our comedy for the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love lemonade.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you have the Patreon poll winner for theme slash less and slash more of the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Daffer.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm so honored.
[SPEAKER_04]: Submitted by Penny Lou.
[SPEAKER_04]: Facing the death of a parent is a traumatic experience and everyone handles it differently.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm into that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Penny.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, well, that is it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have come to the end of this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, tear-fair, for co-hosting with us again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Always.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Join us next time, everybody, when we will be recapping and discussing the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fringy Love Songs with Armin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more, tear-fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: For everyone else, we'll see you next time.