[SPEAKER_00]: This episode of Truth's Table is brought to you by Nav Press, publisher of God, where are you by Dominik Young, a powerful and honest invitation for women, to bring their depression anxiety, grief, and spiritual questions before God, and discover his presence in the midst of pain.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sisters, how y'all feel?
[SPEAKER_00]: Brothers, y'all all right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you've been sitting at the table with us all these years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now pull up a chair and have a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey y'all, welcome to Truth's Table.
[SPEAKER_00]: May-wise, a culture for Grace and Truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a community.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Christina.
[SPEAKER_00]: This table is a bi-black woman and four black women.
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: See how you doing, girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: It came to me how are you doing today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good, good, good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're back at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: See what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're still here, just be made it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, listen, we survived.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, shout out to the heads of Kai Walker.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, listen, I mean, you know that at some point,
[SPEAKER_03]: You go to the different emotions of survival.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some point you like, why am I in survival struggle mode?
[SPEAKER_03]: So you resent it, you're frustrated.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you tire.
[SPEAKER_03]: But at some point you turn the corner, you just grateful.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just glad that you're here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm glad that I'm here moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, you know, I might call it audible on our topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, remix.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put it on the tip, but I'm gonna see what you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, put them on the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did it with regard to our theme about the Underground World World 2.0 and just like, you're talking about the different kind of modes of like what it means to survive only.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Survival strategies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, I ain't gonna strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just so fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take my survival strategies.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I will act like I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know I have some survival strategies.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't resist the phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'll get it together.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that is that what we're talking about the strategies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: What what made me think about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: is what you were saying, but also I was thinking back to I'm a goodness my chapter in the truth's table black black women's museums on life love and liberation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You bet upon the book talk about you know how I go and again I'm just listen you bet upon we go survive we got to we got to go back okay this is the year of the get going get back I mean I just shouldn't
[SPEAKER_00]: In that book, um, again, so I have to look up and see who it is, but I believe it was Dr. Mitzi, you know, that I, that I lifted up and she talks about survival strategies, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and how Hagar, you know, her, the lower calling her back to go back to the house and bondage really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is a survival strategy because she or else her and She cares it's just being out in the wilderness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a dying, you know, they were going to jinx the 16th They would have been Had Garan and Ishma would have just simply died in the desert if she had not gone back Go back to those who owe you something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah to Abraham and just at that time Oh, Abramants are right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, because God hadn't changed their names yet
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it was cut in the full.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he had our name changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had changed the name.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Abram and Sarai going back and was like, why would why would we just sit in the back?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was a survival strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that they could make it so that they could survive and going back like you said to those who owe you a debt, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, sorry, no, I just, I thought about, yeah, literally just thought about putting that on the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: We ain't never did that before.
[SPEAKER_00]: You all just see it alive alive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, that's the old school.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's always has some evasion, but the new test of my version would be finally, you know, an honest mess, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_03]: About what does it mean to go back literally to the house advantage to, uh, to not to be subjected to mobile.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: But as a, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: but as a living symbol, from God, their reparation is due.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, absolutely, you know, so I think that would be a good, don't the press to talk about, you know, the chapter in the book that that example comes up and that citation comes from is from my chapter, hidden in plain sight, single black woman's men of manifesto, hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I even think about in the macro level,
[SPEAKER_00]: of survival strategies.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about passing through, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And in this underground railroad 2.0, you know, toward, you know, freedom land, freedom and Christ, of course, freedom from all, you know, these exigencies like white supremacy and bigotry and all the system of racism in the many ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in this old.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, brook, bro
[SPEAKER_00]: not only intercessory, but within intercessory prayers, imprecatory prayers, so praying for the downfall of enemies and wicked rulers, wicked rulers, who quite literally are so hard and the fairows, if you will, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That refused to repent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I pray that they repent and they repair that would be much That would benefit us all honestly, yeah, but if they will not themselves as well Exactly, but the Lord would cast them then I have found that to be very helpful So even when I think about I saw I've been thinking about I've been trying to incorporate our Lord's prayer
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot more in my own time of prayer because that in and of itself is actually an imprecatory prayer.
[SPEAKER_00]: People don't always think about it that way, but your kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well that takes us all the way back.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know like that, that is a Lord setting everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: completely all right, and that means God's judgment also, you know, comes forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I, that for me is a survival one, a many survival strategies, is prayer, but then also, really leaning into imprecatorium.
[SPEAKER_00]: um, prayers for these times that we are, we are living in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about you, my sister?
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it some novel strategy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you've lifted that one up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would say an an alignment with what you just shared, resisting the pull to make nice with that which seeks to harm and kill.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have some weird things that we do sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in
[SPEAKER_03]: to think good about that which is wicked and how to destroy us.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to stop it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now there's a difference between saying I have a redempt of imagination for what it would look like for the one who was my enemy to now become my sibling.
[SPEAKER_03]: great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think, I think, I think that we would love to have that experience that we've jumped to the imagination.
[SPEAKER_03]: But while they're currently my enemy, I have a reality check this says, Oh, this person does not me be well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a weird thing to have to to tell people or to imply that they should have, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: neutral feelings or optimistic feelings, or they want to draw near to that which harms them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for me, again, because my background and trauma work, you know, that is not uncommon dynamic to see in family systems where people do not want to put boundaries around or provide consequences for an abuser.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what they do for those who have either been directly abused or who are bystandards to abuse is that they demand, literally or implicitly, that they make the abuser feel comfortable, by not putting them in the arms of a human being.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think, you know, I think we have a way of doing that in religious spaces as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: whether it's with other people that are in the same religious space, or about people in the out beyond the religious space who are doing harm.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what does it mean to pray for a political leader who has a significant amount of social kind of earthly, political, financial power?
[SPEAKER_03]: What does it mean the Bible is called to pray for them?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that certainly means having a redemptive imagination of what would it look like if they were to repent?
[SPEAKER_03]: and the benefits of that and the beauty of that for them and for others.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it also means disagreeing with the wickedness and the evil that they are doing and not liking it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we don't wrestle them.
[SPEAKER_03]: We wrestle against clearly the principalities and the rulers in the air.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, amen.
[SPEAKER_03]: We ain't trying to put them in a headlock.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we do long for their restraint.
[SPEAKER_03]: We absolutely long for their restraint.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're removal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do think a part,
[SPEAKER_03]: unhelpful, unbiblical, harmful, abusive, reinforcing mentalities that we have been given.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So to resist that type of manipulation, and we can hold anger and frustration without it overtaking and consuming us.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Bible tells us to be careful.
[SPEAKER_03]: because they can consume you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it doesn't mean that you don't get to sit with the pain of something in the anger and the frustration of something.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just can't be all of your story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It can't be the end of your story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It can't be the consuming aspect of your personality now.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we do get to be angry about harm that we experience, harm against others.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is a part of our survival strategy to disagree with that which wants to kill us.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there is no, I mean, what kind of survival strategy do you have if you are an agreement with the oppressor?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you have to be in a position of consistent disagreement with harm, consistent disagreement with oppression and cruelty and wickedness and covering and and remixing words, not calling a genocide a genocide.
[SPEAKER_03]: not calling racism racism, not calling bigotry bigotry.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, we're going to call it what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't mean it can't be called into something else by the grace and power of God, but we're not going to play games with things that are evil.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I do think that's a part of what it means to have a survival strategy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just agree with injustice.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, just hearing you talk, I just think about the weaponization of grace.
[SPEAKER_00]: in a way, which, because I think we missed that, Grace came by at a great cost, a great cost of cost Jesus's life, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: God's riches were poured out on us at Christ's expense.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the grace that has been given to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't come cheap, and I think that you're right,
[SPEAKER_00]: about everything, but agree with God, about sin, agree with God, about his judgment against the wicked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's agree with God.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're never going to be more gracious than God.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think one of the survival strategies, as you lifted it up, is actually not a were a year in, you know, you're a regular political administration regime.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was actually removing those who are dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those, particularly black truck voters, which I did not actually know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't tons of people, but it was like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, you guys, you've been bewitched by this cult.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so being able to really see like name it for what it is, it is a cult.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, around a particular vial figure head, you know, who does nothing but spew hatred and division, courses like a sailor, you know, just doesn't have any, doesn't think by anybody else, but, but himself, you know, don't care about his followers, you know, and supporters, and lies,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, uh, sometimes he do tell the truth, well, and then they don't, and they've been like, he doesn't, and then they've been like, he don't really mean it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's evil plastic schemes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were like, well, so I landed, she can't be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, hey, tada.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I'll book about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one thing I'll never, I, you know, I, I was like, you know, and I, I think it's just like, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember experiencing the weaponization, like all you're a true Christian if you don't put boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, I don't believe that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to protect yourself as much as you can and use wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when I cut those people out of my life, I have committed to praying for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: To also keep me from resenting, from resentment, keep me from bitterness, keep me from anger.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just seeing like, oh my gosh,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, issue and also a manifestation of internalized rights of hatred, um, you know, even even if they don't know, even if they happen not to know or be aware of that, um, you know, when you think about somebody who just literally was just reported on the news just a couple of weeks ago, uh, a daughter was pushing back, you know, on her father and saying, hey, you know, like trying to convince him that don't support this man, don't do this and that father.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like for children, killed her, you know, and so it just again shows you that that following that can be very dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be fatal, you know, to those around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why it is important for us to keep on these types of boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an extreme example.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's honest, we can't, we can't undermine psychological warfare, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: And all that hegemonic type of violence, you know, when we think about the ways our, the, we see ourselves,
[SPEAKER_00]: Self-estimation is the same person, you know, that that put up an AI image of the Obama's as apes, and And therefore telling us that black people are apes just wickedness and vileness, and I just think that My life has actually been enriched by removing those people from their lives, and I remember Tana has he coats actually saying Something similarly like I don't believe in having to just
[SPEAKER_00]: keep people around like we cannot be debating on our humanity, you know, and if you vote for that, you know, you vote against your own livelihood, your own personhood, you deaf, if you don't love yourself, you can't love me.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't love yourself, you can't love your neighbors, and that's the truth of the matter, and that's the second greatest commandment after loving God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are you loving God?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're wanting to see your neighbor's heart?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you loving God?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the real truth, what's the fruit of your confession?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I'm not interested in anybody's confession of faith anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested in the fruit.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the manifestation of the fruit?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because how the fruit tastes less than you know about the root, for real.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not impressed with it, but I want to see the fruit.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this, this, everybody that says, Lord, Lord, yeah, but also this is like this is literally how you get how you get one group of Catholics in Nazi Germany, Germany, thrown into prison because they're like this ain't right, and how you get others who say nothing, who are quiet and complicit.
[SPEAKER_03]: while people are and children are gas to death.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is how you get, this is how you get people who claim to know the Lord, the sacrificial servant, who stack bodies on top of slave ships, you know, it's worth words like grace in the title, and shipped across ocean.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good Jesus, to be sold, and if we don't, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: The profession is comes from the mouth that is connected to a heart.
[SPEAKER_03]: That has decided that the way of Jesus is the way of life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is not required Christian perfection.
[SPEAKER_03]: We will never arrive at that until we glorify it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there is something really broken about our high tolerance for evil doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: that gets covered up by saying, oh, I follow Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's Jesus do you follow?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a death.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're like, so you're like, let's check the fruit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to ask like, well, what Jesus, who's the Jesus that you have?
[SPEAKER_03]: Am I, who do you say that he is?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is the question that Jesus asks his disciples.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is the question that, if I'm...
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm talking to somebody, if I'm doing a membership interview for church, I attend a church that actually, you know, we do interviews, like, are you a believer?
[SPEAKER_03]: Anybody can come, but to be a member of the community, we have to be believers.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I cut up, you get to hold me accountable based on my actual true profession.
[SPEAKER_03]: which came from my mouth, but it's tied to a heart.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here's the thing, if somewhere, and no one likes to be checked or corrected, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I follow the way of Jesus and you pulled up to me, ways that are inconsistent with following the way of Jesus, then I at least have to sit with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I at least have to go, even if it comes from somebody who I'm like, you ain't got no credibility to check me.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here's the thing, if what they are saying is consistent with following the way of Jesus and my life is not, my words are not, my actions are not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then they actually get to hold that after me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's not their credibility, it's the credibility of Christ's words.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, and because we tend to be easy gricks, because we tend to just be real flippant, we actually don't even know how to discern who is following the way of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is so important.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is why there are generations of people there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Folks that are just like, I'm done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to hear it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because because in fairness to them, they're just such deep and consistencies about following the way of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do we actually hear what Jesus thinks.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the faith has been co-opped.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% you know so for hundreds of years but the Lord in this most recent a lot of time for thousands of years and of course you know I've been Thinking about I don't like to go to our break or should I bring it
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll bring it down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just thinking about being able to discern right from wrong, and how that correlates to our maturity or immaturity and Christ, that's something that's been really coming up discernment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, discernment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been reading that in Hebrews.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, y'all chew on that and you're gonna take this quick commercial break and we come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll pick it back up, talk about survival strategies.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is some of yours?
[SPEAKER_00]: sisters we carry so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: We carry expectations at work at home in our friendships in our faith we carry responsibilities we carry other people's needs and often we carry our own pain quietly telling others to be strong to push through to keep the faith but what happens when you're exhausted when depression lingers when anxiety won't let you rest when shame,
[SPEAKER_00]: In God where are you, Dominic Young creates a safe and honest space to bring those questions into the light.
[SPEAKER_00]: In it, you won't find a book filled with cliches or easy answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a chance to be real about what you're feeling and to discover that God is not intimidated by your sorrow, your anger, or your uncertainty.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you need to take a healing journey, rooted in faith, authenticity, and truth, or if you've ever whispered God, where are you in my pain?
[SPEAKER_00]: You are not alone, and this book is for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: God, where are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: By Dominic Young is available now wherever books are sold, go to nappressed.com to buy your copy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if I have gone to court, Destiny's Child Together, although I don't want to, I don't want to, I'm sorry, you guys both.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want,
[SPEAKER_03]: I just had to say that all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's ridiculous, it's too much, I just had, well, you've been doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually correlates with what it does, cut me off.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does, it's perfect, it's perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I lifted up, I mentioned to y'all, teased Hebrews, you know, but I have it in Hebrews.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is on Hebrews five to NIV.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna go 11 through 14, but it says we have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, verse 11.
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, that is a whole sermon and another sermon.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that will tell us where we are right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: He only will be trying.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truth of God's word all over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need milk, not solid food.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyone who lives on milk being still an infant is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: but solid food is for the mature who, by constant use, have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, as I've been going through, you know, Hebrews, there's been a constant refrain, you know, about faithfulness,
[SPEAKER_00]: about hoarding on to the faith, you know, um, that was once for all time, you know, and hoarding on to that and faithfulness to the end, keeping it till the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of that is moving from milk to solid food, moving from milk.
[SPEAKER_00]: to meet, moving from immaturity to maturity and what divides or distinguishes the mature from the immature is our not only our knowledge but understanding of righteousness, it's our ability to discern good from evil which will not always be so apparent to me it is actually very apparent.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean these days, but just yeah, but yeah, the sermon is more than just like Common sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know you need spiritual it's the Holy Spirit Speaking you telling telling you you link up with this person do not link up with it It's a minimally common sense Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: This is why you don't even have to have the Holy Spirit to be like, I should not give power to someone who wants to hurt us.
[SPEAKER_00]: correct right but you know this is where we are you know so I you know I think that that has been interesting I had never I you know I of course I read these but I had never made those correlations like that but the distinguishing factor between an immature person or a believer in a mature believer is their understanding apprehension of righteousness living that righteousness out but also being
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that to me is a very striking, you know, and in a verse 11 is something else too, because I was a beat.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have much to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is hard to make it clear to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have this that we have the submit to understanding.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to act in it, so the act, so all of this, all of life, all of this in the what thawing the way of Jesus is faith.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the act of submission to, I will now learn myself to learning, is an act of faith.
[SPEAKER_03]: And to be in humility, because in order to learn, you have to be humble enough to think that there is something for me to learn.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if you have a posture that does not have humility, does not have submission,
[SPEAKER_03]: But only has walls, or just, I'm gonna do what I want to do, then you end up not being able to get to a place where you develop a spiritual maturity to deserve right for wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I think about that particular passage in Hebrews, which strikes me as I begin to think about what is What is the beauty and benefit of the nourishment of milk for the infant?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what is the limitations of it?
[SPEAKER_03]: And why a diet of all milk?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what are the consequences of not moving a growing infant to a toddler, a child to an adult, to not move them into more substantive nutrition?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the consequences for them?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That, that which they long for, that they won't have been the middle of the night to receive, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That satisfied them, that helped them to grow.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's so much difference.
[SPEAKER_03]: development that's happening under the nourishment of just milk in the infancy stage.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that very thing will not be enough to sustain them as they begin to grow and they have to do some different things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: As they're growing.
[SPEAKER_03]: They have to communicate with themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: They walk.
[SPEAKER_03]: They move.
[SPEAKER_03]: They build their job.
[SPEAKER_03]: All of these things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That are required.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the nutrition level for where God is taking us and is taking the believer shifts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now that we despise milk, is that we need milk and we need more.
[SPEAKER_03]: In order to continue to grow, and I do think that it's a profound reflection about how our maturity is not about our ability to be judgmental, but to judge right from wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: the immature judgmental.
[SPEAKER_03]: The immature are actually judgmental.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: The insecure and immature are highly judgmental, but the mature discern, which is a form of judgment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that judgment of right and wrong starts internally before it goes external.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do think that is a good reminder for us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as we think about this larger theme of survival skills is when when you are surrounded by a whole
[SPEAKER_03]: it is really easy to stop the process of submitting yourself to discerning judgment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because everybody, people are just so crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, so if you just be like, oh, I'm not like them.
[SPEAKER_03]: At least I'm not like that person.
[SPEAKER_03]: That can't be the barometer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think so part of the survival is actually staying in the narrow way.
[SPEAKER_03]: for yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't know what people are going out here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I know I'm going to stay in a narrow way.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to stay following Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I think when that when we don't do that, we end up deficient and immature.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then that which we should be able to discern is wrong is not a big deal to us or we call wrong right and right wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: or depending on who our favorite person is, that's doing the wrong or the right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That favoritism James talks about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's like, that's who it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's great temptations around that for us for different reasons, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody can be really, really great or seem really great on something that's sociological.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then leaning close.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they talk about other things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, oh, man, now we just lost me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think, I think we need to, and again, we don't have to agree on every single everything to value and respect.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I definitely believe in cobaligerance and common grace and we should learn from each other in different ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to your point, you're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like that favoritism of what you look like me, you sound like me.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you just told me not to follow the way of Jesus, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So now I'm gonna pull back, I'm gonna pull, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we have, we, I think we're gonna need more heighten just so I mean, I think that's part of our survival strategy toolkit, yeah, it's hanging out with the wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah hanging out with the wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: More, you know, greater discernment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we will need, of course, self-care, like the whole listening wellness taking care of ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is very major key.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, when you think about that, if you, you know, we're writing your survival list to someone who is listening right now, you know, what would you put at the top of the list to say, you know, dear sister, dear listener, make sure you don't and with many of the things we've already laid out, but is there something that comes to mind for you that you would want to say, let's not skip over this, let's be intentional.
[SPEAKER_03]: don't forget to put this in your napsack as we travel through this underground railroad 2.0.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to need this for the journey.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're saying in addition to what we've already listened, of course, Jesus, of course, in the prayer all alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd say our health.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have to be even more vigilant about our health and what we're eating these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, not to be an alarmist.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, there's a lot, you know, the, the measle cases are, are just astounding.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, it's spreading, it seems to be spreading all over the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so being very aware, you know, of, uh, taking care of ourselves, I'm asked to mask.
[SPEAKER_03]: I still have as long as there are airborne infections.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I still mask.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's the church.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we call it there of many cultures that do that as a courtesy for others.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I still mask.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also taking care of ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so yeah, you all know me, you know, working out was really, really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've been nursing a cold soul.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've been bad to kind of take a little bit of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a solution for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know we're done, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't like sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just just rest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sleep at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, taking care of ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially as many people are using healthcare.
[SPEAKER_00]: left and right because of the legislation that was signed to you know and so that will be important trying to take care of our self as much as we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're starting to read labels.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I have to do read labels making sure that we're trying to eat as
[SPEAKER_00]: Fresh You know like remember I told you I said I think I feel like there's a cold coming on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about to go in the kitchen and make my concoction I have so many questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get help me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got so many concoctions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't say poses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, don't let me know No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all my things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't call all my non creepy things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's machine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, it's all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am like, okay, mix out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just let me put it together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my supplements, all the, okay, uh, I travel with them, you know, but seriously, having to take care of myself because there's ways that we can prevent, you know, so as much as we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is we can't time and chance happens to us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and our bodies betray us, I, you know, so this is not an ableist statement at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to try to help ourselves as much as we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, and from when the storm's down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's some things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, get your omega 3s in there, get your D3, because you know, we tend to be just fishing because we're our melanin.
[SPEAKER_00]: So make sure you, you know, take those things all of these things help us, you know, our immune systems and things.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just have to take care of ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think we have to be,
[SPEAKER_00]: agile in these times, not be so stuck on what you've always done, you know, and be open to what the Lord might be wanting to do, which is why I talked about in our introduction episode about the new prayer I've been praying is just like, Lord, how do you want to use me during these times?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then be ready to move and God says, move though, and do and God said to do
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have got to have some sort of spirituality, just straight agility, you know, to be able to move to pivot because I think these times are just so unstable and uncertain that it just requires us to be able to move with the times flow.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where we're got telling us to flow.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how about you?
[SPEAKER_03]: What will be in your toolkit?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was just respond to one thing you said about about agility and I'm like, oh, people don't realize how important that is, you know, like that's a sign of, you know, mental health, really one sign of, of the health, mental health is the ability to have deep convictions, so you don't blow with a win, you just like, now whatever, whatever, but you actually have some convictions and
[SPEAKER_03]: you have a mental agility, you have both.
[SPEAKER_03]: And people who really struggle the most in terms of, yeah, for therapy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, everybody does that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, but yeah, but you have to have both of those.
[SPEAKER_03]: What people tend to do is they lean into one of those.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a flexibility that's just so flipping and unstable and it blows like the wind.
[SPEAKER_03]: or a deep conviction that's just rigidity and it doesn't move.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to have both is usually a sign of an ability to navigate difficulties that will come our way, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had these are the things I stand on.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is who I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are my convictions, but I don't have a thousand of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, right, can't hold a thousand convictions, you know, like every then you cannot be like the most crucial thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you have some things that do matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to stand, oh, yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: You guys too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but you also have that mental, that mental flexibility.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that is just spot on having the Napsack, because we're going to need that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially when things are absolutely outside of our control.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say, for me, one of those things in the Napsack is really nurturing, it's to talk about nurturing your relationship with yourself, through your physical health.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say, nurture your relationships externally too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that we have got to learn how to have
[SPEAKER_03]: a mutual kind, compassionate, respectful relationships that can solve and resolve conflict that can hear people well and that starts with self like being personally healthy enough to engage in those kind of relationships, but we're not going to make it individually, like we have to be in community, we have to be in healthy communities.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to whatever extent there are family relationships or relationships with friends or community members that that are healthy enough to be work through we need to work through you know and I think to your point earlier about boundaries, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, someone says, often, who I know well, I can't believe.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, boundaries protect what is sacred, but also boundaries are actually about us.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's what we're not going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now what somebody else think going to do, because we can't control what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is 100% about what I'm not going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when I create a boundary, it's to say, I am not going to step over this line into this thing that's going on over here with this person.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm staying back here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you're doing, but I'm staying here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm staying where I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, and I think too, as we think about relationships and relational health, we have to figure out where we have to have those lines where we're like, I'm staying back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you work it out, and you figure it out, and you're now safe, you're free to come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a wall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a fence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm seeing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's not a brick wall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do think we have to be again, back to the Hebrews passage.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to have the spiritual maturity.
[SPEAKER_03]: The nourishment, the spiritual nourishment, the developed spiritual maturity to discern right from wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's just going to be important as we build out the kind of enduring relationships.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it, there may, you know, I don't know what tomorrow holds.
[SPEAKER_03]: This could be wrapped up tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, that, like, an eschaton way.
[SPEAKER_03]: It could also be wrapped up in a political and social way.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not only the Lord knows.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the people who we think have social and political power, they don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: they don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there really is only one who knows all things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, and because that one's character is good, I do have a sense of peace, even as I name the things that that suck right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, but I do think whatever happens, we are going to need other people, going to need other people.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the ability to be spiritually mature enough to discern who those people are, where there ought to be boundaries.
[SPEAKER_03]: where there are not be boundaries in that way, and to so into and to build up those relationships are going to be critical for the journey that we're going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody made it in the real literal underground railroad alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a network, it is a system that went from country to country, went north and south, Mexico, into Canada, and it was a interconnected, multi-linguistic,
[SPEAKER_03]: community that cross a variety of denominational affiliations under special nationality in the United States that included all kinds of people of African State, European descent indigenous people and it required the creativity of a carpenter.
[SPEAKER_03]: It required the sharp line of a theologian preacher.
[SPEAKER_03]: It required people that could cook in survival skills and untrained nurses.
[SPEAKER_03]: It required everybody to require.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's so a fool.
[SPEAKER_03]: And people at the end of the day with a courage to make room for others.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if community is not in the Napsack, if...
[SPEAKER_03]: then survival is not in charge as to be in the next.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but no community no survival.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: So get your net sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you get the your survival strategy pack as we continue to journey on the underground railroad two point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let us know what's in your survival strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Naps.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's you bringing my chair?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you living behind?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you never buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know it was such a way.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean by?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it was a narrow road, down to the ground where you can just take any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should, and you couldn't just take any old body.
[SPEAKER_00]: And any old body.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could not.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I think you're dating life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's another story.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, let us know.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you taking with you?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you putting in your survival strategy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Pack, let us know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank y'all for taking a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's keep the conversation going, OK?
[SPEAKER_00]: Either comment on Instagram, send us an email, and ask truthtable at gmail.com, or tweet, or thread us, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your thoughts about your own survival strategy, pack what you're taking, what you agree with, what you disagree with, let us know.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to bring it on, bring it on, and let's go lightly, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on,