WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:11.046 [SPEAKER_00]: The quick note before we get started with today's episode, some things have changed for our patrons, and I just want to make sure that our VIP patrons are aware, and those of you who would be interested in this, also are aware. 00:11.186 --> 00:12.748 [SPEAKER_00]: We're starting something new and exciting. 00:13.289 --> 00:25.746 [SPEAKER_00]: For our VIP patrons, we are now going to do a monthly get together where we can sit down in chat, and I can get to know you, and you can get to know me, and we can just nerd out and talk about some of our favorite things. 00:25.826 --> 00:28.570 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys can ask questions, 00:28.550 --> 00:34.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And this monthly chat will happen at the end of every month on a specific time and a specific date. 00:34.640 --> 00:35.181 [SPEAKER_00]: So a few things. 00:35.462 --> 00:45.498 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, current VIP patrons, I will be posting some things on the Patreon in the coming weeks to help us confirm the best date and time for these things to happen. 00:45.559 --> 00:53.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Say for example, the last Sunday of every month at a specific time of day, you'll all vote and we'll go with the time that works for the most people. 00:53.592 --> 01:00.063 [SPEAKER_00]: And I also need some decisions about the way we're going to manage this, will we put it out on the feed and all of that. 01:00.143 --> 01:06.593 [SPEAKER_00]: So those of you who are signed up currently and who do sign up in the next few weeks will help decide this for everybody. 01:06.994 --> 01:09.398 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so excited to get together and talk with everyone about this. 01:09.718 --> 01:13.204 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some current posts already for VIP patrons about... 01:13.184 --> 01:15.507 [SPEAKER_00]: why this change is happening and how we're managing it. 01:15.607 --> 01:16.768 [SPEAKER_00]: So go check that out. 01:16.808 --> 01:21.674 [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't logged into Patreon recently, go check out some of the most recent posts where I've explained what's going on. 01:22.135 --> 01:27.541 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, part of this has to do with the fact that Patreon is no longer doing the t-shirt merch thing. 01:27.581 --> 01:32.367 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to update it and it said I couldn't and then it said I couldn't go back to the yard of the other setup. 01:32.767 --> 01:36.171 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're doing this instead and honestly, I think this is 01:36.151 --> 01:43.701 [SPEAKER_00]: actually a lot more fun than sending merch out because I'm going to get to know all of you and nerd out with you about one of the best things in the entire world. 01:43.801 --> 01:45.143 [SPEAKER_00]: So check that out. 01:45.283 --> 01:46.965 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have any questions, let me know. 01:47.266 --> 01:54.896 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you'd like to sign up or upgrade your current status in order to join us for a monthly chat, then you're absolutely welcome to do that on the Patreon. 01:55.276 --> 01:56.438 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get to the show. 02:00.873 --> 02:03.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 02:04.183 --> 02:09.921 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 02:19.165 --> 02:35.885 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the benefits of doing this show is that I get to spend some time re-evaluating everything that I assume about everything talking has written, but in this case, the Lord of the Rings, and my own perspective on the Lord of the Rings. 02:36.326 --> 02:48.480 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's an example, for those of you who are like me, somebody who read the books in their 02:48.460 --> 02:49.902 [SPEAKER_00]: and that was a long time ago. 02:49.942 --> 02:54.690 [SPEAKER_00]: How much do you remember about that read through? 02:55.752 --> 03:14.063 [SPEAKER_00]: So much of what we know about these books in our experience with them, mostly comes from watching the movies and the popularity of the media around the Lord of the Rings, and possibly other readthroughs of the story, or having listened to podcasts or watched YouTube videos, 03:14.397 --> 03:18.720 [SPEAKER_00]: But do you remember what it was like? 03:18.785 --> 03:21.169 [SPEAKER_00]: to read this in your youth. 03:22.271 --> 03:45.788 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that I'm reminded of, going through, going through these first few chapters of the fellowship of the ring and their slow pace and how much is telling stories about things that aren't happening right in the moment, Gandalf explaining smiggle, for example, or talking to Frodo about Gullerman in this section, so much of what's happening here, 03:45.768 --> 03:48.173 [SPEAKER_00]: is not action on the page. 03:48.313 --> 03:51.600 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not the main characters doing a thing. 03:51.641 --> 03:53.284 [SPEAKER_00]: It is background set up. 03:53.665 --> 04:01.682 [SPEAKER_00]: It is situations that fill in the gaps a little bit about who these characters are or the history of the world, those types of things. 04:02.043 --> 04:06.392 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I was younger, when I read through this, I was in middle school, I believe. 04:06.372 --> 04:12.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was one of the reasons why I almost didn't read the rest of the story. 04:13.084 --> 04:21.478 [SPEAKER_00]: Coming from the Hobbit, things pick up pretty quickly the dwarves arrive at the house, and the story just starts moving forward. 04:21.762 --> 04:33.818 [SPEAKER_00]: but as a young reader who didn't have a lot of patience or even understanding about all of what is actually going on here, I found that too slow and I almost gave up. 04:34.299 --> 04:41.749 [SPEAKER_00]: I pushed through it, I forced myself too because I believe it was my dad who said, no, you need to keep going, it gets better. 04:42.289 --> 04:43.551 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to like it. 04:44.206 --> 04:45.868 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I did, fortunately. 04:45.888 --> 04:47.710 [SPEAKER_00]: But do you remember that? 04:47.730 --> 04:54.819 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have stories or examples of ways that you experienced this at a younger age? 04:55.660 --> 04:57.383 [SPEAKER_00]: And the difference between that and now? 04:58.003 --> 04:59.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I'm going with this. 04:59.686 --> 05:10.399 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just kind of did a meta thing where I actually did the thing that I'm talking about is happening in the book where I recapped what was going on in my history and now I'm never mind. 05:10.379 --> 05:14.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, my perspective on it now is very different. 05:14.783 --> 05:18.126 [SPEAKER_00]: This section of the book is so important. 05:18.226 --> 05:28.355 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it does kind of break that rule of modern fantasy writing where you want to drop somebody into the action right in the beginning and make it exciting. 05:28.716 --> 05:35.802 [SPEAKER_00]: How many books have you read, just get right into it right at the beginning and then they explain the background and things like that later. 05:36.142 --> 05:40.386 [SPEAKER_00]: How many movies start off with some sort of 05:40.366 --> 05:50.882 [SPEAKER_00]: already in progress, and the heroes have to do a exciting thing and show how awesome they are, and so it grabs your attention right away, and then it slows down and fills the background. 05:51.643 --> 05:52.845 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the opposite. 05:53.225 --> 06:03.100 [SPEAKER_00]: This is written much more like an older novel, something like Moby Dick, where it takes a while for us to get to anything happening. 06:03.080 --> 06:21.240 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to kind of suffer through the slow stuff, and for those of you who are video gamers out there, it starts like 80s or 90s Japanese role playing game, where there's 10, 15 hours of just stuff that happens that's mostly characters talking and nothing exciting happening at all until you get to the meat of the game. 06:21.220 --> 06:23.142 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels like that. 06:23.583 --> 06:28.890 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet on this rereading and this close analysis, it is so rich with detail. 06:29.350 --> 06:44.629 [SPEAKER_00]: Last episode, I quoted, I believe, almost every single sentence in that episode because there was something to say about something happening in every single sentence that is crucial to the plot. 06:44.609 --> 06:51.681 [SPEAKER_00]: is of utmost importance to who Gandalf is and who Frodo is and their understanding of smiggle. 06:52.442 --> 06:59.755 [SPEAKER_00]: And in this section, we get even more history, but we also understand who Gandalf and who Frodo are. 07:00.115 --> 07:04.643 [SPEAKER_00]: In a lot more detail, before they even set off on their adventure. 07:04.623 --> 07:06.165 [SPEAKER_00]: and there's value to that. 07:06.465 --> 07:14.916 [SPEAKER_00]: We get a glimpse of how very much like Bilbo Frodo actually is, but also how naive and yet curious he is at the same time. 07:14.956 --> 07:17.079 [SPEAKER_00]: Much like smiggle was. 07:17.640 --> 07:32.098 [SPEAKER_00]: We also get an understanding of Gandalf and how interested Gandalf is in this history in order to understand it, in order to gather as much information as he can in order to make the best decisions about what to do. 07:32.078 --> 07:36.483 [SPEAKER_00]: But we also get to experience his emotional perspective. 07:36.944 --> 07:50.660 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not just a grumpy, cold wizard who is tired of the world and weary and it's kind of an archetype right cold and unemotional, highly intellectual, that sort of thing. 07:50.700 --> 07:52.382 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, he's the opposite. 07:52.623 --> 07:54.825 [SPEAKER_00]: He deeply cares for this world. 07:54.905 --> 07:58.930 [SPEAKER_00]: He deeply cares for the Hobbits and for the peoples of this world. 07:58.910 --> 08:03.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And from this moment at the beginning of the story, he even has pity. 08:03.580 --> 08:07.628 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's an important word for smingle. 08:08.129 --> 08:12.678 [SPEAKER_00]: And of can definitely act like a grumpy old man sometimes, like so many of us, I guess. 08:13.660 --> 08:17.247 [SPEAKER_00]: But deep down, he cares about the world. 08:17.348 --> 08:19.973 [SPEAKER_00]: He loves the creation. 08:19.953 --> 08:30.187 [SPEAKER_00]: and he will go to whatever ends are necessary to make sure that good triumphs over evil, and that he takes care of the peoples of this world. 08:30.648 --> 08:36.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Because deep down, he genuinely cares, and that makes so much sense. 08:36.876 --> 08:42.304 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm reminded again that, as a Myr, in Valinor, he served under Nianna. 08:43.165 --> 08:43.986 [SPEAKER_00]: The Vala. 08:43.966 --> 08:50.937 [SPEAKER_00]: of pity and mourning, the one who cries for the fate of the peoples of Middle Earth. 08:51.277 --> 09:09.485 [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about that a lot in one of the really early episodes, and the difference here is that Gandalf has that same compassion and that compassion brings hope and endurance and a drive to make it better, and that's a deep and meaningful, and it's all right here, and we're going to get into it. 09:09.645 --> 09:11.007 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's go ahead and do it. 09:11.347 --> 09:11.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go. 09:15.387 --> 09:19.913 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much. 09:27.453 --> 09:35.005 [SPEAKER_00]: So picking up from last week, Frodo says, Gollum, Gollum, do you mean that this is the very Gollum creature that Bilbo met? 09:35.566 --> 09:36.728 [SPEAKER_00]: How loadsome? 09:37.649 --> 09:42.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Now Frodo is in a situation here where he is panicking and he is worried. 09:42.777 --> 09:50.470 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been told that the ring that he has is the most dangerous magical item in the history of the world. 09:51.171 --> 09:51.992 [SPEAKER_00]: And he is 09:51.972 --> 09:58.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Panicked, he is worried for his own safety, and also for the future of all the people that he cares about. 09:59.582 --> 10:05.129 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, it makes sense that he would respond, oh, how low-thsome, this creature must be terrible. 10:05.149 --> 10:13.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing he really knows about Golem is build those stories, and how Golem was aggressive and try to eat him, and all of that. 10:13.780 --> 10:20.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to understand where he's coming from, but Gandalf's response to this is, I think it is a sad story. 10:20.508 --> 10:21.290 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what he says. 10:21.350 --> 10:28.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Fredo says, how low the sum and Gandalf's response is, I think it is a sad story. 10:28.988 --> 10:30.111 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds like pity to me. 10:30.171 --> 10:37.167 [SPEAKER_00]: And it occurs to me here that sometimes foreshadowing is simply character consistency. 10:37.147 --> 10:56.126 [SPEAKER_00]: We all know the famous quote, and it shows up in the movie when they're in the minds where Gandalf talks about pitying Gullum and Frodo takes that to heart, which is part of why he doesn't murder Gullum also because of that advice and that perspective, that wise perspective and yet it is right here at the very beginning of the book. 10:56.447 --> 10:57.990 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf is consistent. 10:57.970 --> 11:02.580 [SPEAKER_00]: Then he says that this could have happened to many others, some of the hobbits that he's known. 11:02.641 --> 11:07.211 [SPEAKER_00]: And this continues to point back at the power of the ring and how that dominates people. 11:07.331 --> 11:12.142 [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes, it's not the individual, it's the ring that's actually doing the evil. 11:12.603 --> 11:14.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, in the case of somebody like Smeagull, 11:14.407 --> 11:18.696 [SPEAKER_00]: He was already kind of primed in that direction, and so it made it even worse. 11:19.057 --> 11:23.085 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the ring didn't have to fight against some of his natural inclinations, that's sort of thing. 11:23.305 --> 11:30.019 [SPEAKER_00]: And when Gandalf tells Frodo that he was a hobbit-like creature, Frodo again responds, what an abominable notion. 11:29.999 --> 11:32.422 [SPEAKER_00]: This is all too much for Frodo in this moment. 11:32.683 --> 11:34.125 [SPEAKER_00]: And notice the juxtaposition here. 11:34.185 --> 11:36.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo is responding with a lot of emotion. 11:36.548 --> 11:41.255 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf is sharing his emotions, but he's responding with logic. 11:41.696 --> 11:48.866 [SPEAKER_00]: He's responding by saying, well, I've looked at the details, and this is what the details seem to prove. 11:48.926 --> 11:51.990 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he starts spelling it out for him. 11:51.970 --> 11:55.454 [SPEAKER_00]: the origins of the Hobbits, the fact that they're related. 11:55.795 --> 12:00.220 [SPEAKER_00]: One of his major proofs is how well, Bilbo, and Golem understood each other. 12:00.260 --> 12:03.965 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, they understood one another remarkably well. 12:04.465 --> 12:09.531 [SPEAKER_00]: Very much better than a Hobbit would understand, say, a dwarf or an orc or even an elf. 12:09.551 --> 12:12.595 [SPEAKER_00]: Think of the riddles they both knew for one thing. 12:12.575 --> 12:22.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Freda responds, yeah, but other people use riddles too, and then he gets into details about how, well, hobbits don't cheat, and so that doesn't seem very hobby. 12:22.288 --> 12:33.542 [SPEAKER_00]: And it makes me wonder, because we just saw the sackville bagginses and their willingness to try to cheat their way into Bilbo's stuff and stealing forks and spoons, and that's the sort of thing. 12:33.582 --> 12:34.043 [SPEAKER_00]: But 12:34.023 --> 12:36.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, also think about from the perspective of Frodo. 12:36.326 --> 12:40.230 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm most of us will defend our kind, right? 12:40.330 --> 12:43.194 [SPEAKER_00]: We will say, well, the people I know are good people. 12:43.274 --> 12:43.975 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't cheat. 12:44.255 --> 12:48.640 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know 100% if they've cheated or not, especially if they didn't get caught, right? 12:48.901 --> 12:58.192 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo says that Gala meant to cheat all the time, and he even says it amused his wickedness to start a game which might end in providing him with an easy victim. 12:58.672 --> 13:00.975 [SPEAKER_00]: But if he lost, would not hurt him. 13:00.955 --> 13:02.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And that seems pretty accurate. 13:03.318 --> 13:08.325 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was basically our reading of it when we went through the Hobbit. 13:08.666 --> 13:12.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the stakes were on his side, right? 13:12.431 --> 13:13.112 [SPEAKER_00]: That sort of thing. 13:13.573 --> 13:16.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf says, well, yes, that's true. 13:16.817 --> 13:20.242 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something else in it, I think, which you don't see yet. 13:20.823 --> 13:23.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Even Gollum was not Holy Ruined. 13:23.607 --> 13:27.773 [SPEAKER_00]: He had proved tougher than even one of the wise would have guessed. 13:27.753 --> 13:28.815 [SPEAKER_00]: as a Hobbit might. 13:29.556 --> 13:31.499 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, foreshadowing. 13:32.100 --> 13:41.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Hobbits do not bend to the will of the ring the same way other creatures do, and even Gandalf wouldn't have necessarily predicted that. 13:41.475 --> 13:54.115 [SPEAKER_00]: And that makes a lot of sense because every piece of information they have about how powerful the ring is, what is, what is capable of, how it was able to corrupt the king of Gondor, 13:54.095 --> 13:59.465 [SPEAKER_00]: makes it seem like a tiny little hobbit wouldn't stand a chance, but yet they do. 13:59.765 --> 14:00.927 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get some insight. 14:01.368 --> 14:09.302 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a little corner of his mind that was still his own, and a light came through it as though a chink in the dark. 14:09.282 --> 14:11.625 [SPEAKER_00]: light out of the past. 14:11.645 --> 14:21.096 [SPEAKER_00]: It was actually pleasant, I think, to hear a kindly voice again, bringing up memories of wind and trees and sun on the grass, and such forgotten things. 14:22.018 --> 14:29.827 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love the way this is framed, because it makes gallum not just a dark and terrible and evil monster. 14:30.348 --> 14:34.733 [SPEAKER_00]: It plays to the humanity that's buried deep inside of him. 14:34.713 --> 14:43.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Smiggle was the kind of Hobbit-like creature, store, whatever we're going to call it, who preferred to look at the ground and dig in the ground. 14:44.164 --> 14:52.755 [SPEAKER_00]: But like all living creatures, there was a time where he enjoyed the wind in his hair, the feeling of sun on a warm spring day. 14:52.795 --> 15:00.484 [SPEAKER_00]: And as much as the ring would corrupt him, that part was still buried deep down inside and 15:00.464 --> 15:03.550 [SPEAKER_00]: He also understood the conflict within him. 15:03.690 --> 15:13.429 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that the ring itself was manifesting as a personality in conflict with the personality, that dual personality thing is being hinted at here too. 15:13.950 --> 15:19.401 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, but that of course would only make the evil part of him angry or in the end. 15:19.381 --> 15:22.487 [SPEAKER_00]: unless it could be conquered, unless it could be cured. 15:22.788 --> 15:26.836 [SPEAKER_00]: And this makes the concept of dealing with Sauron so much darker. 15:26.896 --> 15:37.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine dealing with an external evil Lord who seeks to dominate and subjugate everybody around him and say having to work for him in his... 15:37.859 --> 15:40.823 [SPEAKER_00]: like tower or something like that where he's constantly present. 15:41.164 --> 15:50.778 [SPEAKER_00]: Now take that same situation and import him into your brain and now he's constantly trying to dominate everything you're doing every moment of your life. 15:51.619 --> 15:52.240 [SPEAKER_00]: That's hell. 15:52.561 --> 15:55.585 [SPEAKER_00]: It's no wonder Gollum was so broken and miserable. 15:56.126 --> 15:58.129 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf goes on to explain some more details. 15:58.149 --> 16:07.242 [SPEAKER_00]: He says there was little hope for conquering 16:07.222 --> 16:12.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, he stopped using the ring as often as he would have expected. 16:12.129 --> 16:15.093 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, in the black darkness, it was seldom needed. 16:15.114 --> 16:20.361 [SPEAKER_00]: And he basically answers the question as to, over 400 years, why didn't he turn into a rave? 16:20.902 --> 16:24.387 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, he is thin and tough still. 16:24.367 --> 16:28.954 [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing was eating up his mind, and the torment became almost unbearable. 16:29.334 --> 16:36.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Plus, the reason why he went under the mountain was to discover the secrets under the mountain, and Gandalf's like, well, he didn't really find anything. 16:36.746 --> 16:40.992 [SPEAKER_00]: He just found darkness, and cold fish, and orcs. 16:41.673 --> 16:46.180 [SPEAKER_00]: And he learned that he hated the dark, but he hated the light even more. 16:46.540 --> 16:49.024 [SPEAKER_00]: He hated everything. 16:49.004 --> 16:52.371 [SPEAKER_00]: and the ring most of all. 16:52.712 --> 16:54.235 [SPEAKER_00]: This has echoes of addiction. 16:54.396 --> 17:02.954 [SPEAKER_00]: How many people have suffered with something like alcoholism and they can't stop drinking and yet they hate the drinks. 17:04.036 --> 17:05.359 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels like that. 17:05.339 --> 17:08.645 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bilbo is still young and naive, and he says, well, what do you mean? 17:08.685 --> 17:10.168 [SPEAKER_00]: How does that make any sense, basically? 17:10.228 --> 17:14.355 [SPEAKER_00]: If he hated it, why didn't he get rid of it or go away and leave it? 17:14.575 --> 17:17.380 [SPEAKER_00]: And this feels very accurate to being a human being as well. 17:17.440 --> 17:22.369 [SPEAKER_00]: How many times have you seen somebody suffering under their own actions, their own decisions? 17:22.349 --> 17:25.072 [SPEAKER_00]: and you thought to yourself, well, why don't they just stop? 17:26.073 --> 17:29.237 [SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is if it were that easy, they would have already. 17:29.878 --> 17:30.359 [SPEAKER_00]: They can't. 17:30.699 --> 17:37.287 [SPEAKER_00]: So Gandalf tries to explain to Frodo in a way that he'll understand that the ring itself was really in control at this point. 17:37.747 --> 17:43.294 [SPEAKER_00]: He says he hated it and loved it as he hated and loved himself. 17:43.274 --> 17:44.736 [SPEAKER_00]: He could not get rid of it. 17:45.037 --> 17:47.581 [SPEAKER_00]: He had no will left in the matter. 17:47.922 --> 17:53.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, Golum at this point is a 100% bound prisoner to it. 17:54.293 --> 17:56.797 [SPEAKER_00]: He has no control over this at all. 17:57.338 --> 18:00.323 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he could do anything about it, he would, but he can't. 18:00.884 --> 18:01.906 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he can't escape. 18:02.567 --> 18:03.949 [SPEAKER_00]: And because of that, 18:03.929 --> 18:04.910 [SPEAKER_00]: He hates himself. 18:05.491 --> 18:07.534 [SPEAKER_00]: All he has left is hate. 18:07.875 --> 18:15.425 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Gandalf gives us some insight into the way the ring actually works, which she keeps getting hinted at, but he brings some clarity to it here. 18:15.766 --> 18:18.249 [SPEAKER_00]: He says a ring of power looks after itself. 18:18.590 --> 18:23.076 [SPEAKER_00]: It may slip off treacherously, but it's keeper never abandoned's it. 18:23.737 --> 18:32.670 [SPEAKER_00]: At most, he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else's care, and didn't we just see Bilbo go through these same stages? 18:32.650 --> 18:43.376 [SPEAKER_00]: And that only had an early stage when it first begins to grip, but as far as I know, Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing, and really done it. 18:44.058 --> 18:50.794 [SPEAKER_00]: He needed all my help too, and even so he would never have just forsaken it or cast it aside. 18:50.774 --> 18:58.946 [SPEAKER_00]: it was not gallum Frodo, but the ring itself that decided things, the ring left him. 18:59.006 --> 19:08.520 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Frodo turns from being kind of confused about the nature of gallum and how he could love and hate himself and what he's doing with the ring and all of that. 19:09.021 --> 19:13.989 [SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of starts to incorporate this and yet he still pushes back. 19:14.049 --> 19:15.010 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, 19:14.990 --> 19:18.994 [SPEAKER_00]: What just in time to meet Bilbo, wouldn't an orc have suited it better? 19:19.034 --> 19:20.235 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good point. 19:20.695 --> 19:23.478 [SPEAKER_00]: This seems very coincidental, doesn't it? 19:24.398 --> 19:27.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, off response, it is no laughing matter. 19:27.681 --> 19:28.262 [SPEAKER_00]: Not for you. 19:28.502 --> 19:31.965 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the strangest event in the whole history of the ring so far. 19:32.506 --> 19:39.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo's arrival just at that time and putting his hand on it blindly in the dark. 19:39.932 --> 19:44.997 [SPEAKER_00]: Now remember when we went through the Hobbit? 19:44.977 --> 19:53.957 [SPEAKER_00]: And especially in the Hobbit, you get these glimpses of something more behind the scenes, affecting the way the story is going. 19:54.562 --> 19:58.768 [SPEAKER_00]: And off says there was more than one power at work, Frodo. 19:58.788 --> 20:00.611 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is proof of that concept. 20:01.092 --> 20:03.295 [SPEAKER_00]: The ring was trying to get back to its master. 20:03.595 --> 20:06.039 [SPEAKER_00]: It had slipped from Isolder's hand and betrayed him. 20:06.059 --> 20:15.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, when a chance came, it caught poor degle, and he was murdered, and after that gallum, and it had devoured him. 20:15.453 --> 20:17.619 [SPEAKER_00]: It could make no further use of him. 20:17.679 --> 20:24.980 [SPEAKER_00]: He was too small and mean, and as long as it stayed with him, he would never leave his deep pool again. 20:25.040 --> 20:30.576 [SPEAKER_00]: The ring knew it was trapped, and it needed to get out. 20:30.657 --> 20:48.092 [SPEAKER_00]: So now, when its master was awake, once more, and sending out his dark thought for Merquit, meaning Sauron, when Sauron had finally returned to power, and was willing, casting his will out into the world, seeking the ring. 20:48.072 --> 20:54.119 [SPEAKER_00]: It abandoned Gollum, only to be picked up by the most unlikely person imaginable. 20:54.840 --> 20:56.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo from the Shire. 20:56.883 --> 20:58.685 [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems coincidental, but think about it. 20:59.045 --> 21:01.128 [SPEAKER_00]: Why was Bilbo even in that cave? 21:01.789 --> 21:17.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was asked to be on an adventure with Gandalf and a bunch of dwarves in order to do a thing that Gandalf knew would help aid the peoples of Middle Earth against the Dark Lord. 21:17.047 --> 21:19.129 [SPEAKER_00]: why was Gandalf doing that? 21:19.790 --> 21:23.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was sent by the Valar to do exactly that. 21:24.456 --> 21:25.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Why did Gandalf pick Bilbo? 21:26.358 --> 21:29.622 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Bilbo was the unlikely burglar. 21:30.062 --> 21:37.771 [SPEAKER_00]: He was the one that Gandalf knew deep down would be exactly the right person for the job. 21:38.132 --> 21:39.173 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what was the job? 21:39.193 --> 21:45.180 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was to deal with Smog and get him out of the mountain and get the dwarves there, 21:45.278 --> 21:48.941 [SPEAKER_00]: But that was the secondary job, right? 21:49.222 --> 21:52.985 [SPEAKER_00]: Gandalf's main job isn't to return kingdoms to dwarves. 21:53.605 --> 21:57.929 [SPEAKER_00]: It is to ensure the safety and the future of the free people of Middle Earth. 21:58.230 --> 22:06.157 [SPEAKER_00]: And even Gandalf couldn't have predicted what other things would have happened with Bilbo on that journey, like finding the one ring. 22:06.557 --> 22:07.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And why is that? 22:07.658 --> 22:15.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Gandalf is constantly seeking 22:15.265 --> 22:23.137 [SPEAKER_00]: With the way the song was written by playing his part exactly as he was told he should. 22:23.497 --> 22:36.717 [SPEAKER_00]: And by being a faithful servant to Eluvitar to the Valar to everything that he was designed to be, he put things into motion in exactly the way that Eluvitar wanted them to be. 22:37.017 --> 22:39.120 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why Bilbo came across the ring. 22:39.500 --> 22:43.585 [SPEAKER_00]: It all connects back to the very story, the very song of creation. 22:43.946 --> 22:44.767 [SPEAKER_00]: And he confirms this. 22:44.867 --> 22:46.249 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he basically confirms it here. 22:46.309 --> 22:47.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out the very next paragraph. 22:47.670 --> 22:53.658 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, behind that, there was something else at work beyond any sign of the ringmaker. 22:54.159 --> 22:59.245 [SPEAKER_00]: I can put it no planer than by saying that Bilbo was meant. 22:59.225 --> 23:11.682 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is italicized to find the ring and not by its maker, in which case you were also meant to have it, and that may be an encouraging thought. 23:12.033 --> 23:19.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can see why that would be an encouraging thought to Gandalf, because it seems unlikely and yet it is happening. 23:19.765 --> 23:24.432 [SPEAKER_00]: And these things, although they seem dangerous and dire now, are good. 23:24.852 --> 23:27.536 [SPEAKER_00]: The ring didn't end up in the hands of an orc. 23:27.817 --> 23:33.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Who could have much more easily been discovered by Sauron and then Sauron would have gotten the ring back. 23:33.245 --> 23:43.451 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything would have been terrible, but instead the ring, at least right now, is relatively safe in the hands of a most unlikely individual. 23:43.912 --> 23:46.418 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody that Sauron would never have considered. 23:46.739 --> 23:47.962 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a beauty in this. 23:48.263 --> 23:49.566 [SPEAKER_00]: This idea that 23:49.546 --> 23:57.358 [SPEAKER_00]: terrible evil people are constantly thinking about power and domination and trying to exert the control over others. 23:57.839 --> 24:01.584 [SPEAKER_00]: Then they seem to only respect other people who do the same thing. 24:01.625 --> 24:14.184 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, the weakest and mildest among us, those who are always underestimated or just forgotten altogether, can actually do so much more than you would ever expect. 24:15.245 --> 24:18.270 [SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't make sense to 24:18.250 --> 24:27.653 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not, meaning it is not encouraging, though I am not sure that I understand you, but how have you learned all this about the ring and about going? 24:27.818 --> 24:30.623 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you really know it all, or are you just guessing still? 24:30.964 --> 24:33.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that Frodo's honest here. 24:33.088 --> 24:36.594 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, okay, well, I don't get it yet, and he will. 24:36.995 --> 24:37.917 [SPEAKER_00]: He'll get it eventually. 24:38.217 --> 24:42.265 [SPEAKER_00]: But right now, he doesn't get it, but then he's like, But how do you know all of this? 24:42.365 --> 24:50.400 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, asking the question that the audience would ask, How would Gandalf know these things about a past that he didn't experience? 24:50.380 --> 24:51.301 [SPEAKER_00]: What is going on? 24:51.662 --> 24:53.684 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf's response to this is great. 24:53.785 --> 24:59.132 [SPEAKER_00]: He basically says, OK, we, the wise know the history of Elendil and Islder, they know the history of the ring. 24:59.152 --> 25:00.173 [SPEAKER_00]: We all know that stuff. 25:00.313 --> 25:06.121 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also now have confirmation that this is the one ring by the firewriting alone. 25:06.381 --> 25:12.169 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no other ring that would have this writing and would be responsive to the flames. 25:12.149 --> 25:14.333 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo says, well, when did you discover that? 25:14.374 --> 25:16.257 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gandalf's like, well, just now in the room. 25:17.660 --> 25:19.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we just do this together. 25:19.464 --> 25:21.608 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I now have confirmation about that. 25:21.809 --> 25:24.174 [SPEAKER_00]: But that he had expected that this would be the case. 25:24.354 --> 25:26.819 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, he was pretty sure that's why he returned. 25:27.240 --> 25:28.302 [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, 25:28.282 --> 25:33.412 [SPEAKER_00]: I have come back from dark journeys and long search to make that final test. 25:33.432 --> 25:37.480 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the last proof, and all is now only two clear. 25:38.241 --> 25:43.391 [SPEAKER_00]: Making Out Gollum's part, and fitting it into the gap in the history, required some thought. 25:43.772 --> 25:47.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I may have started with guesses about gollum, but I am not guessing now. 25:48.722 --> 25:49.182 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 25:49.202 --> 25:51.066 [SPEAKER_00]: I have seen him. 25:52.463 --> 25:55.528 [SPEAKER_00]: You have seen Gollum, exclaimed Frodo in amazement? 25:56.369 --> 26:13.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the obvious thing to do, of course, if one could, I tried long ago, but I have managed it at last. 26:19.615 --> 26:22.621 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for tuning in and shout outs to our newest patrons. 26:22.682 --> 26:26.610 [SPEAKER_00]: My name is August West and Merchwood HR compliance and Sam. 26:26.891 --> 26:28.153 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Patreon. 26:28.173 --> 26:31.621 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, reminder for our VIP patrons who am about to name all of you. 26:32.262 --> 26:36.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Go check out the updates and let me know your thoughts on the patron chat. 26:36.691 --> 26:39.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Look for a post, let's say, in the next week. 26:39.798 --> 26:41.119 [SPEAKER_00]: to it the most. 26:41.560 --> 26:50.329 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to give some time for people to kind of get a little bit closer to the event that would happen at the end of May to be sure about certain dates and that sort of thing. 26:50.349 --> 27:04.725 [SPEAKER_00]: So all that stuff's coming down the pipe and I'm again so excited to talk to all of you and hang out and nerd out and answer questions and however you guys want to do it this is going to be very much something that you all can design and be a part of and it's going to be super fun. 27:04.705 --> 27:10.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, shoutouts to all of our VIP patrons, Fulcrim, David S, Daniel Knightweaver, Capena, Richard J.T. 27:10.795 --> 27:11.175 [SPEAKER_00]: J.T. 27:11.295 --> 27:11.516 [SPEAKER_00]: A.K. 27:11.536 --> 27:20.810 [SPEAKER_00]: Music lover, Barney D. Azale Resil, Blade of Andorreal, Lori B. Norwegian Myr, Mason Weathertop, Jezor, Gimlia Break, Divine Madman, Rosie Rose, Ginger Fury. 27:20.911 --> 27:21.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Who on is my hero? 27:21.872 --> 27:32.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Aldarin was right, a very old party snacks, single-ent looking friendwives, 27:32.549 --> 27:34.112 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to say dodge prompt. 27:34.132 --> 27:38.521 [SPEAKER_00]: I was probably from now on, uh, hunter, silver star in my name is August West. 27:38.621 --> 27:40.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for your continued support. 27:40.304 --> 27:42.709 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I'd love to hear your reviews. 27:42.930 --> 27:44.994 [SPEAKER_00]: The leave a review on Apple podcasts with five stars. 27:45.034 --> 27:46.597 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it out on a future episode. 27:46.617 --> 27:53.451 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also leave nice comments on Spotify or join us on the Discord or, you know, any of that stuff. 27:53.751 --> 27:54.152 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so, 27:54.132 --> 27:56.559 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for being here, and I'm going to go do the bonus episode. 27:56.579 --> 28:02.596 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm decided exactly what I'm going to cover this week, but I'll go figure that out, and I'll see the patrons who are signed up for that on the other side. 28:02.857 --> 28:05.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Stay safe out there, and don't underestimate the meek. 28:05.986 --> 28:06.868 [SPEAKER_00]: They might surprise you. 28:07.530 --> 28:08.192 [SPEAKER_00]: See you next time. 28:11.547 --> 28:13.709 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 28:14.330 --> 28:17.853 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 28:18.294 --> 28:22.598 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more at robotsradio.net. 28:23.078 --> 28:24.900 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 28:25.420 --> 28:32.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 28:32.427 --> 28:38.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Their links, and the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 28:38.373 --> 28:39.394 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.