WEBVTT 00:27.419 --> 00:32.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Agatha Christie said, in Mother's love for her child is like nothing else in the world. 00:32.966 --> 00:40.376 [SPEAKER_00]: It knows no law, no pity, it dates all things and crushes down remorcelessly, all that stands in its path. 00:41.037 --> 00:44.902 [SPEAKER_00]: At least that's what we expect from a mother when it comes to the love of her child. 00:45.463 --> 00:48.707 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if the child is what stands in the path of the mother? 00:49.168 --> 00:57.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Will she be protective or will she become the thing the child needs protection from? 00:58.486 --> 01:03.191 [SPEAKER_00]: First, a quick note going back to our episode from before the update, knife freak. 01:03.692 --> 01:08.798 [SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping that this episode today would be a follow-up regarding another murder of another sex worker. 01:09.379 --> 01:21.533 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had put in a request for those records, which is usually a non-issue, but because that case is still technically active, I'm working on having a conversation with the detectives, we can get the word out about that unsolved case. 01:21.553 --> 01:24.576 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm hoping to be able to get to that case very soon. 01:24.636 --> 01:28.020 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry that I said that it would be the next one, 01:29.030 --> 01:33.919 [SPEAKER_00]: As for today's case, it was sent to us by listener of and front of the show, Carrie. 01:34.359 --> 01:46.220 [SPEAKER_00]: She jimailed us at murder and the rain at gmail.com and said, I became aware of this case out of Beaverton, Oregon, about a missing 10-year-old girl named Elizabeth Anne Hustler, the child of Karen Hustler. 01:46.721 --> 01:53.974 [SPEAKER_00]: This case is particularly interesting because the missing child's mother went to prison for having a dismembered landlord in her freezer. 01:53.954 --> 01:57.538 [SPEAKER_00]: The missing child is still on the Oregon Missing Person's website, too. 01:57.978 --> 02:03.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe with the resources you have in talent at storytelling and listener engagement, you could put something out there. 02:03.524 --> 02:04.004 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care. 02:04.565 --> 02:05.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Carrie. 02:05.066 --> 02:07.448 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again for bringing this case to our attention. 02:07.568 --> 02:20.422 [SPEAKER_00]: We love hearing from listeners and finding these stories that we don't know because that is a shocking detail about the landlord and I was as usual surprised that this case was not more well known. 02:20.482 --> 02:23.725 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the case you're covering or is this? 02:23.890 --> 02:25.239 [SPEAKER_01]: We get a frozen guy. 02:25.300 --> 02:26.750 [SPEAKER_00]: We got a frozen landlord. 02:26.810 --> 02:27.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 02:27.918 --> 02:28.140 [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh. 02:28.542 --> 02:28.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:29.375 --> 02:35.842 [SPEAKER_00]: In February 1978, two kids met at a dorm party at the California Institute of Technology in Los Angeles. 02:36.323 --> 02:46.133 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen was eyeing a man named Michael, but her friends warned her, yeah, the guy is cute and a smart nerd, but his reputation was for partying and drug use. 02:46.614 --> 02:50.158 [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't stop Karen from talking to the guy and eventually dating him. 02:50.839 --> 02:59.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael was equally attracted to the beautiful Karen, who was intelligent in her own 02:59.328 --> 03:07.900 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael was equally attracted to the beautiful Karen who was intelligent in her own right, as they spent time together they learned just how much they had in common. 03:08.341 --> 03:20.077 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen's mother struggled with mental health issues which had led to her being hospitalized multiple times where she had even undergone electroshock treatments which had left her unable to care for Karen and her sibling. 03:20.578 --> 03:28.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael's parents divorced when he was 10 and he never got along with his 03:28.589 --> 03:33.956 [SPEAKER_00]: They dated for seven months before marrying, even though the red flags were already flying by then. 03:34.477 --> 03:40.785 [SPEAKER_00]: On one occasion, as Karen waited for Michael to get ready so they could go out, he wasn't moving quickly enough for her liking. 03:41.306 --> 03:46.372 [SPEAKER_00]: As he sat on the couch, she came up behind him, poured a glass of water on his head and walked out the door. 03:47.013 --> 03:58.208 [SPEAKER_00]: In a scene that would replay itself countless times throughout their relationship, Michael followed Karen out, she was already 03:58.188 --> 04:08.840 [SPEAKER_00]: That move actually worked as he intended, and instead of driving off alone, Karen turned back to the house where she and Michael talked out the nasty situation that had just transpired. 04:08.900 --> 04:13.625 [SPEAKER_00]: According to Michael, that story was the essence of his relationship with Karen. 04:14.106 --> 04:14.667 [SPEAKER_00]: It cycled. 04:15.067 --> 04:21.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Tension would build one of them would explode into an outburst the other would follow and try to quell the situation. 04:21.695 --> 04:26.440 [SPEAKER_00]: This led to several separations and breakups throughout their rocky marriage. 04:26.420 --> 04:39.093 [SPEAKER_00]: while dating the couple would occasionally smoke joints together, but that all changed a couple of years after they were wed when Karen, perhaps under the Nancy Reagan spell of just say no, became hardcore anti-drugs. 04:39.594 --> 04:50.385 [SPEAKER_00]: This added issues to their marriage as Michael was still not only using anti-anxiety medication, but also cocaine, which probably didn't help his anxiety issues. 04:50.365 --> 04:52.819 [SPEAKER_01]: That is pro-wings-layity medication. 04:52.859 --> 04:53.241 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 04:53.261 --> 04:56.056 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like make the anxiety happen, drug. 04:56.418 --> 04:56.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:56.801 --> 04:57.625 [SPEAKER_00]: As far as I know. 04:58.246 --> 05:02.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Early in the marriage, the couple welcomed their first child, a son named Jonathan. 05:02.514 --> 05:07.883 [SPEAKER_00]: In 1986, Little Sister Elizabeth Anne was born on September 26th, 1986. 05:08.043 --> 05:15.617 [SPEAKER_00]: The birth of his children didn't hinder Michael's drug use, and in the early 1990s, he went to rehab for his cocaine addiction. 05:16.338 --> 05:21.587 [SPEAKER_00]: While her father dealt with his substance issues, Elizabeth was cared for by her mother, Karen. 05:21.567 --> 05:30.161 [SPEAKER_00]: As she always did, she would take Elizabeth to dance classes, they would play Barbies and Menopoli, Karen also focused on Mormon teachings for Elizabeth. 05:30.882 --> 05:36.791 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael noted, Karen was always a donning mother, if Elizabeth fell while rollerblading Karen tended to her injuries. 05:37.272 --> 05:47.608 [SPEAKER_00]: If Elizabeth were even just a little bit under the weather, her mother would want to take her to the doctor or even the hospital if necessary, Karen was almost too protective of her daughter. 05:47.588 --> 05:55.578 [SPEAKER_00]: Given her family's mental health background, Karen became worried about Elizabeth when at age 7, she started to exhibit concerning behaviors. 05:56.139 --> 05:59.524 [SPEAKER_00]: In the fall of 1993, Karen took Elizabeth to the doctor. 06:00.004 --> 06:03.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, the diagnosis wasn't as serious as Karen had thought it would be. 06:04.290 --> 06:11.419 [SPEAKER_00]: Elizabeth was diagnosis having ADHD and was prescribed riddleant, which Karen was always on top of dosing. 06:11.399 --> 06:19.111 [SPEAKER_00]: In 1995, Michael's job at Epitope Diagnostics moved him and the family from Livermore, California, to Portland, Oregon. 06:19.992 --> 06:23.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh and Ian info about Livermore, California. 06:23.157 --> 06:24.800 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you heard of it? 06:24.860 --> 06:26.102 [SPEAKER_01]: I have heard of Livermore. 06:26.202 --> 06:26.963 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 06:26.983 --> 06:29.286 [SPEAKER_01]: But I imagine it's an upgrade. 06:30.228 --> 06:31.910 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, to come to Portland. 06:31.951 --> 06:33.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would think so. 06:33.826 --> 06:39.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Around Thanksgiving that year, the relationship between the couple remained combative and Karen remained reactive. 06:40.253 --> 06:46.359 [SPEAKER_00]: When she found a white powder while cleaning, she assumed Michael was still using cocaine and she popped off. 06:47.000 --> 06:49.443 [SPEAKER_00]: That accusation sent Michael into a rage. 06:49.823 --> 06:57.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen didn't care that he explained the powder was actually a form of volume, which he hadn't even used since they were living in California. 06:57.451 --> 07:00.916 [SPEAKER_00]: As she continued scolding him, he violently lashed out. 07:01.377 --> 07:11.532 [SPEAKER_00]: In the subsequent restraining order that Karen filed, she said, quote, he hit me on the shoulder, then spat on me, then hit me across my face, my face was swollen and bruised. 07:11.812 --> 07:17.400 [SPEAKER_00]: It affected my hearing and equilibrium, eyesight, it hurt badly and dislocated my jaw. 07:17.761 --> 07:18.682 [SPEAKER_00]: I went to a doctor. 07:18.742 --> 07:22.868 [SPEAKER_00]: So a pretty serious response from Michael. 07:22.848 --> 07:25.832 [SPEAKER_01]: I can no longer confirm that Portland is an upgrade. 07:25.913 --> 07:27.715 [SPEAKER_01]: Livermore is right outside of the Bay Area. 07:28.436 --> 07:29.077 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't know. 07:29.318 --> 07:34.005 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe for the people that don't have bazillion dollar salaries that can't live. 07:34.365 --> 07:35.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, maybe. 07:35.467 --> 07:36.048 [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go. 07:36.308 --> 07:36.949 [SPEAKER_00]: The suburbs. 07:36.969 --> 07:39.473 [SPEAKER_01]: A beautiful, beautiful livermore, California. 07:39.513 --> 07:45.201 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how far outside of San Francisco, but it's nearer there than other places that aren't there. 07:45.602 --> 07:50.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, man, thanks for that California update, California, boy. 07:51.940 --> 08:05.742 [SPEAKER_00]: The day after Thanksgiving police arrived to arrest Michael, they were probably a bit intimidated as Michael, who had beaten his five foot four 180 pound wife, stood seven feet tall 240 pounds. 08:06.864 --> 08:14.577 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael pleaded no contest to the charges of harassment and was sentenced to two years of probation, anger management classes and drug courses. 08:15.058 --> 08:18.403 [SPEAKER_00]: Years later, that conviction would actually be expunged. 08:18.383 --> 08:22.010 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen responded to his attack by getting a restraining order against him. 08:22.711 --> 08:28.902 [SPEAKER_00]: The combination of Karen's accusations and Michael's aggressive response finally brought their difficult marriage to an end. 08:29.383 --> 08:37.538 [SPEAKER_00]: By 1996, Michael was moved out of their home near the Tannisborn area of Northwest Portland, and in May of that year he filed for divorce. 08:37.939 --> 08:41.505 [SPEAKER_00]: The fighting would finally be over, or so Michael had hoped. 08:42.650 --> 08:54.615 [SPEAKER_00]: When they separated nine-year-old Elizabeth stayed with her mother in Oregon, Michael moved back to California where he became a chemist at a biotech company in the East Bay area of San Francisco, so very possibly back to Livermore. 08:55.256 --> 09:02.852 [SPEAKER_00]: He had hoped to start a new life away from the toxicity he'd been living in for two decades, and his teenage son Jonathan joined him. 09:02.832 --> 09:08.317 [SPEAKER_00]: even with the restraining order in place, Jonathan was still allowed to see his sister and Michael his daughter. 09:08.357 --> 09:13.722 [SPEAKER_00]: On December 23, 1996, Michael made a report to the Portland Police. 09:14.282 --> 09:18.987 [SPEAKER_00]: He had been trying to get a hold of his daughter for months, but hadn't been able to speak with her. 09:19.547 --> 09:27.474 [SPEAKER_00]: In a desperate attempt to make contact, he called Bethany Elementary, the school where Elizabeth had supposedly started fifth grade three months earlier. 09:27.514 --> 09:32.839 [SPEAKER_00]: It was then he learned his daughter had never been 09:32.819 --> 09:39.469 [SPEAKER_00]: PPD took his concern seriously and started looking into Elizabeth's life and possible disappearance. 09:40.009 --> 09:52.347 [SPEAKER_00]: Showing up at Karen's home on Christmas Eve, I can only assume they assumed they'd be met by a parent who was being protective or even petty and little Elizabeth would greet them and assure everyone that she was fine. 09:52.546 --> 09:53.387 [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't happen. 09:54.429 --> 10:12.535 [SPEAKER_00]: Asking Karen about where Elizabeth was, she claimed to have sent her to live with family in California just a few weeks earlier, when detectives asked for the family information so they could follow up and do a wellness check, Karen refused, saying she was concerned for Elizabeth's safety if her father learned her location. 10:13.116 --> 10:19.465 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter how much the officer's promise to her Michael would not be provided that information, she did not budge. 10:19.445 --> 10:25.861 [SPEAKER_00]: checking in with neighbors, it was reported that three months prior in September Karen held a garage sale. 10:26.342 --> 10:36.306 [SPEAKER_00]: It was memorable for some of those neighbors because many of Elizabeth's belongings, such as clothes and toys, were being sold, and Elizabeth was not there. 10:36.286 --> 10:49.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Asking Jonathan about his relationship with his sister, he reported he had never seen his father abuse Elizabeth, nor had Karen ever accused Michael of doing so, making her statement about protecting Elizabeth seem even more off. 10:50.390 --> 10:58.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Investigators followed the trail of clues and were able to pinpoint the last time Elizabeth had been seen alive outside of the home she shared with her mother. 10:58.544 --> 11:13.060 [SPEAKER_00]: It had been at a wedding at the Cedar Hills State of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Beaverton, the Cedar Hills area west of Portland, on August 31, 1996, four months before the police report was made. 11:13.698 --> 11:16.622 [SPEAKER_00]: The investigation continued but Karen held firm. 11:16.963 --> 11:20.708 [SPEAKER_00]: She was wholly unwilling to share Elizabeth's location with anyone. 11:21.189 --> 11:26.677 [SPEAKER_00]: By the start of 1997, police realized Karen was on the run or at least in hiding. 11:27.178 --> 11:33.367 [SPEAKER_00]: In February 1997, Karen was tracked down at a motel in the coastal town of Newport, Oregon. 11:33.847 --> 11:36.972 [SPEAKER_00]: She was in one of the rooms and had a loaded gun. 11:36.952 --> 11:41.482 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of this new location, there were hopes Karen had brought Elizabeth with her to the coast. 11:42.063 --> 11:48.898 [SPEAKER_00]: Once she was arrested, Lincoln County Police and local explorer scouts searched the area, but there were no signs of Elizabeth. 11:49.560 --> 11:52.767 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no incident between Karen and the police that night. 11:52.747 --> 11:54.809 [SPEAKER_00]: There was also no sign of Elizabeth. 11:55.149 --> 12:00.013 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter what threats were made to Karen about her freedom, she refused to tell them where she was. 12:00.874 --> 12:04.537 [SPEAKER_00]: With no other choice Karen was charged with custodial interference. 12:05.038 --> 12:11.844 [SPEAKER_00]: The judge in the case told her that if she gave them Elizabeth's location or brought Elizabeth with her, she would only face probation. 12:12.444 --> 12:13.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Still, she kept quiet. 12:14.306 --> 12:17.128 [SPEAKER_00]: Only saying she had sent her daughter to family in California. 12:17.889 --> 12:22.753 [SPEAKER_00]: Unwilling to budge, she accepted a two-year prison 12:22.733 --> 12:28.529 [SPEAKER_00]: released in February 1999, Karen still had nothing to say about where her daughter was. 12:28.991 --> 12:38.397 [SPEAKER_00]: It was becoming crystal clear that something bad had happened to nine-year-old Elizabeth and the state started looking into how to prosecute Karen for her murder without a body. 12:38.613 --> 12:43.762 [SPEAKER_01]: So she was never specific about which family she wouldn't be specific to which family she was sent to in California. 12:43.782 --> 12:45.324 [SPEAKER_00]: What part of California? 12:45.384 --> 12:46.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing. 12:46.787 --> 12:48.209 [SPEAKER_00]: Just she's in California with family. 12:48.409 --> 12:52.396 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was that was why the charge came that was what was it interfering with custody? 12:52.556 --> 12:59.187 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so basically even though Michael didn't have custody, he still had visitation rights and could still talk to her. 12:59.167 --> 13:18.863 [SPEAKER_00]: because she would not say where she was that was kind of the only thing they could get her on and say you can either say give us names, phone numbers and addresses and let us see that she's okay or you can go to prison for two years and she chose to go to prison based on this idea that Michael was dangerous to her which was never a problem before. 13:19.636 --> 13:25.504 [SPEAKER_00]: For centuries, the concept of charging someone for murder without the proof of a murder seemed impossible. 13:25.984 --> 13:29.969 [SPEAKER_00]: The phrase, no body, no murder kept charges for many at bay. 13:30.390 --> 13:40.243 [SPEAKER_00]: There was even a murderer in England named John George Hague, who specifically used acid to dispose of bodies as he took the idea quite literally. 13:40.663 --> 13:44.428 [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't work out for him as he had hoped, but that story's for another time. 13:44.898 --> 13:53.509 [SPEAKER_00]: However, if you have good detectives, you can have a body of evidence, even if you don't have an actual corpse of a victim. 13:54.430 --> 14:05.543 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Latin legal phrase Corpus Delicti, which literally translates to the body of a crime, meaning you can't charge someone until you have proof that a crime was even committed. 14:06.064 --> 14:08.627 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean you can't charge without a body. 14:08.607 --> 14:25.457 [SPEAKER_00]: In the 1960 case of California versus Scoot, it was found that, quote, circumstantial evidence wins sufficient to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis, may prove the death of a missing person, the existence of a homicide, and the guilt of the accused. 14:26.239 --> 14:28.202 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's this Scoot we're talking about? 14:28.300 --> 14:34.168 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I didn't go into that whole story either, because it's California, and it's a whole another story. 14:34.829 --> 14:35.389 [SPEAKER_00]: Shock a bra. 14:35.730 --> 14:38.954 [SPEAKER_00]: How classic for John George Hague? 14:38.974 --> 14:40.897 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, nobody, no crime. 14:41.317 --> 14:42.459 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just get rid of the bodies. 14:43.320 --> 14:43.861 [SPEAKER_00]: How about that? 14:44.622 --> 14:45.142 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go. 14:45.162 --> 14:46.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what you've melted them, huh? 14:46.504 --> 14:46.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 14:47.265 --> 14:51.311 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, yeah, but we know that you did these like, uh, but nobody, huh? 14:51.331 --> 14:53.093 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, yeah, that's not what that means. 14:54.018 --> 14:59.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Since 2012, there have been over 660 cases that were prosecuted without a body. 15:00.090 --> 15:08.886 [SPEAKER_00]: It might be surprising to know that 86% of no body cases end up with a conviction, which is much higher rate than I thought that it would be. 15:09.367 --> 15:10.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Me too, when you were saying that. 15:10.990 --> 15:12.353 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, surprise, surprise. 15:12.614 --> 15:13.716 [SPEAKER_01]: It's no idea. 15:13.736 --> 15:14.457 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems unlikely. 15:15.095 --> 15:22.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that Elizabeth hadn't been seen by anyone but her mother for literal years, it seemed obvious a crime had indeed been committed. 15:23.411 --> 15:30.184 [SPEAKER_00]: What exact crime and what the motive had been wasn't known but the state was determined to build a case against her. 15:30.164 --> 15:35.551 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen would face a charge in October of 1999, but not for anything regarding Elizabeth. 15:35.952 --> 15:40.517 [SPEAKER_00]: She was actually caught stealing clothes and identification from the home of a friend. 15:41.138 --> 15:43.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Convicted of burglary, Karen went to jail for six months. 15:44.423 --> 15:46.746 [SPEAKER_00]: The state knew this wasn't a burglary to get cash. 15:46.766 --> 15:53.995 [SPEAKER_00]: This was Karen's attempt to steal an identity so she could run away before any more charges surrounding Elizabeth were put on her. 15:53.975 --> 16:08.618 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there was an element of relief to the investigators as their prime suspect in whatever had happened to Elizabeth, was now behind bars while they continued digging for clues, but with each turned stone, it was becoming clearer, something very bad had happened. 16:09.379 --> 16:18.413 [SPEAKER_00]: It was then reported that while she was in jail, Karen told several inmates that she had not only killed her daughter, but her body would never be found. 16:19.996 --> 16:25.467 [UNKNOWN]: You 16:29.142 --> 16:36.494 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've ever visited our blog at murderinoreen.com, you have seen that most of our sources come from newspapers.com. 16:37.075 --> 16:48.313 [SPEAKER_00]: The extensive collection of old newspapers at newspapers.com provides a treasure trove of historical crime reporting, offering a unique perspective on unresolved, cold cases and forgotten mysteries. 16:48.754 --> 16:55.825 [SPEAKER_00]: By utilizing newspapers.com's powerful search tools and advanced filters, true crime enthusiasts can uncover new leads. 16:55.805 --> 17:00.253 [SPEAKER_00]: Previously, I noticed details and overlooked connections in old crime stories. 17:00.753 --> 17:16.480 [SPEAKER_00]: The ability to access digitize newspapers from various time periods and regions allows researchers to gain a deeper understanding of the social, cultural, and political context surrounding a particular crime, offering valuable insights into the motives and circumstances of the case. 17:16.460 --> 17:30.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Newspapers.com's vast archive of articles, obituaries, editorials, and letters to the editor can help true crime podcasts host peace together a comprehensive narrative of a criminal case, shedding light on both the victims and perpetrators involved. 17:31.023 --> 17:42.180 [SPEAKER_00]: By cross-referencing information from multiple newspapers and articles on newspapers.com, researchers can verify facts, corroborate witness statements, and identify discrepancies in news coverage. 17:42.160 --> 17:46.968 [SPEAKER_00]: ultimately adding a layer of credibility and accuracy to their true crime investigations. 17:47.429 --> 18:04.337 [SPEAKER_00]: The convenience of accessing newspapers.com's digitized library from anywhere with an internet connection allows true crime enthusiasts to conduct in-depth research and analysis on the go enabling them to uncover compelling stories and insights that may have been previously hidden in the archives. 18:04.317 --> 18:09.473 [SPEAKER_00]: To get started on your own newspapers.com journey, go to newspapers.com slash crime. 18:09.794 --> 18:13.787 [SPEAKER_00]: When you sign up, use discount code murder in the rain to get to the new person off. 18:17.497 --> 18:25.285 [SPEAKER_00]: While the last weeks of her sentence were coming to an end, a grand jury was hearing the evidence the state had gathered to prove Karen had murdered Elizabeth. 18:25.845 --> 18:30.590 [SPEAKER_00]: In April of 2000, a grand jury indicted Karen for the murder of her daughter. 18:30.610 --> 18:35.755 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the issues with that grand jury was that the state was trying to keep it quiet. 18:36.356 --> 18:47.487 [SPEAKER_00]: The grand jury in position was done secretly, so Karen wouldn't be alerted of the possible upcoming charges 18:47.467 --> 18:53.239 [SPEAKER_00]: One problem with that was that the state called on Karen's brother and father to testify. 18:53.279 --> 18:58.510 [SPEAKER_00]: So of course they informed Karen that the heat was on and was about to come down on her. 18:59.051 --> 19:05.644 [SPEAKER_00]: This allowed Karen a few extra days to make her next move, which was to get out of the state of Oregon. 19:05.624 --> 19:10.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Police started tracking Karen and eventually discovered that she had gone south to Arizona. 19:10.656 --> 19:13.282 [SPEAKER_00]: While there, she got a ride to a bus terminal from an uncle. 19:13.863 --> 19:22.283 [SPEAKER_00]: She stayed a step ahead, though, and by the time police received a tip of her being spotted, and they were able to get to Arizona, she was long gone. 19:22.263 --> 19:32.596 [SPEAKER_00]: It's believed Karen had hopped around from the East Coast, even Mexico, all in an effort to avoid extradition back to Oregon to face the charges surrounding the presumed death of Elizabeth. 19:33.337 --> 19:35.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Northridge is a neighborhood in Los Angeles. 19:35.720 --> 19:40.807 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the heart of the valley where you would find the mall and where Karen's dad lived. 19:41.307 --> 19:43.210 [SPEAKER_00]: He claimed to have been clueless. 19:44.191 --> 19:45.132 [SPEAKER_00]: Get it the valley. 19:45.112 --> 19:59.950 [SPEAKER_00]: about her living situation, even though she had moved into apartment 222 with his friend, James Cameron, no relation to the director, and it was located in Canoga Park only two miles from his home. 20:00.611 --> 20:07.079 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Karen moved in with her dad's friend and was only two miles from the house, and he's like, I have no idea where she is. 20:07.880 --> 20:08.401 [SPEAKER_01]: As if. 20:08.941 --> 20:10.343 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 20:10.323 --> 20:16.293 [SPEAKER_00]: James' wife had passed away three years prior, which was when he moved into the Disoto Avenue Apartments. 20:16.874 --> 20:22.003 [SPEAKER_00]: James was known for being a quiet, nice guy, even though he was a bit temperamental with family. 20:22.404 --> 20:28.053 [SPEAKER_00]: There had never been any noise complaints nor had anyone heard him fighting or arguing with anyone in his apartment. 20:28.574 --> 20:31.940 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a bit of a loner, an intellectual, and a retired engineer. 20:32.401 --> 20:35.065 [SPEAKER_00]: He loved golfing, bowling, and square dancing. 20:35.045 --> 20:38.348 [SPEAKER_00]: The loner aspect didn't really come into play until his wife had died. 20:38.868 --> 20:42.532 [SPEAKER_00]: He was known as the guy who sat on the bench in the lobby and enjoyed his cigarettes. 20:43.172 --> 20:46.495 [SPEAKER_00]: His health had begun going down in the previous year due to a stroke. 20:47.016 --> 20:50.499 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone who knew James at the apartment knew nothing of Karen. 20:51.360 --> 20:53.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen's plans seemed to be working. 20:53.542 --> 20:54.723 [SPEAKER_00]: No one was riding her out. 20:55.143 --> 20:59.367 [SPEAKER_00]: She was only in Southern California, but seemed to have fallen off of Oregon's radar. 20:59.848 --> 21:02.470 [SPEAKER_00]: She just went on living life how she wanted to. 21:02.450 --> 21:05.473 [SPEAKER_00]: That was, until the police came knocking on her door. 21:05.513 --> 21:13.282 [SPEAKER_00]: Their arrival might have been a surprise, but what was probably more surprising was that they were not there to talk to her about Elizabeth. 21:13.782 --> 21:16.225 [SPEAKER_00]: They were there on a welfare check for James. 21:16.785 --> 21:18.147 [SPEAKER_00]: This was more than the usual. 21:18.207 --> 21:21.310 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, could someone swing by and check on my elderly family member? 21:21.831 --> 21:25.875 [SPEAKER_00]: There were legitimate concerns brought to the police by James's niece. 21:25.855 --> 21:28.657 [SPEAKER_00]: The niece's mother, James's sister, had called her. 21:29.198 --> 21:32.301 [SPEAKER_00]: She hadn't heard from her brother in a while and it was becoming concerning. 21:32.881 --> 21:41.529 [SPEAKER_00]: So, his niece stopped by the apartment to check on her uncle, calling out for him and walking through the kitchen, she then went running out the front door screaming in horror. 21:42.169 --> 21:44.812 [SPEAKER_00]: She called the police right away to report a murder. 21:45.452 --> 21:54.360 [SPEAKER_00]: She explained why she'd gone to James's place, and she told them that when she spotted a human torso wrapped in paper, she ran out the door. 21:55.437 --> 22:00.983 [SPEAKER_00]: With the report of a possible homicide having taken place, police went to the apartment and knocked on the door. 22:01.464 --> 22:02.004 [SPEAKER_00]: No answer. 22:02.565 --> 22:05.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Busting the door open, officers found Karen. 22:05.428 --> 22:08.272 [SPEAKER_00]: She had fresh, superficial knife wounds on her body. 22:08.792 --> 22:19.665 [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't more detail to that, but I can only assume she was either attempting to take her life fearful to do so or was trying to make it look like self-defense, but those are purely my guesses. 22:20.265 --> 22:21.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Only conjecture. 22:21.847 --> 22:27.993 [SPEAKER_00]: While processing everything going on police arrested Karen, asking for her name they were given Jane Doe. 22:28.453 --> 22:34.119 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't until she was booked that her fingerprints came up as a match for a woman wanted for murder in Oregon. 22:34.919 --> 22:37.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Evidence in the house showed the plan Karen was putting into place. 22:38.102 --> 22:42.366 [SPEAKER_00]: She had fake IDs, had bleached her brown hair blonde, and possessed a gray wig. 22:42.907 --> 22:51.735 [SPEAKER_00]: Since James didn't have any children and his wife had passed away, it seemed Karen was hoping to steal 22:51.715 --> 23:04.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Worst things were found in a fake ID though, in the apartment there was a classic side-by-side refrigerator and an upright freezer, knowing the report had come in stating a torso had been seen, the fridge and freezer were checked. 23:04.788 --> 23:07.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Inside, they found dismembered body parts. 23:07.832 --> 23:11.996 [SPEAKER_00]: It was believed the remains belonged to James since he hadn't been seen or heard from. 23:12.036 --> 23:14.859 [SPEAKER_00]: What was found was taken into the examined. 23:15.299 --> 23:19.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Toxicology reports and an autopsy didn't do much in 23:19.964 --> 23:27.092 [SPEAKER_00]: See, once it was realized who Karen was and what had occurred, she admitted she had cut up James's body. 23:27.112 --> 23:33.139 [SPEAKER_00]: According to Karen, she and James were having sex when he suffered a fatal heart attack. 23:33.680 --> 23:43.491 [SPEAKER_00]: It has been reported in various manners that the pair were in a relationship or perhaps he was only financially supporting Karen and maybe she repaid him in some ways. 23:43.471 --> 23:57.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever their situation ship was, after James died, Karen was in a desperate and selfish panic, deciding the only way to keep the police away was to cut the man up and pretend nothing ever happened, leaving his family devastated. 23:57.854 --> 24:04.445 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess she would just keep on getting groceries and making food as if she didn't have most of a body in her fridge. 24:05.407 --> 24:06.829 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Karen. 24:07.298 --> 24:11.463 [SPEAKER_00]: The autopsy wasn't exactly helpful when it came to charging care in with anything. 24:11.744 --> 24:16.210 [SPEAKER_00]: It showed James did have heart disease, so he very well could have died from a heart attack. 24:16.730 --> 24:27.805 [SPEAKER_00]: The dismemberment was done by someone who, according to the coroner, was, quote, extremely good at it and left no signs of any other cause of death, so no knife wounds, no bullet holes. 24:27.785 --> 24:33.734 [SPEAKER_00]: So, except for cutting a man up to cover her own ass, it didn't appear Karen had been responsible for James's death. 24:34.575 --> 24:36.759 [SPEAKER_00]: I was unable to find the outcome of a few things. 24:36.859 --> 24:40.985 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the early articles state not all of the body parts were located. 24:41.626 --> 24:48.878 [SPEAKER_00]: Even when the complexes garbage and local areas were searched, there were still unnamed parts of James that were unaccounted for. 24:49.458 --> 24:52.183 [SPEAKER_00]: Authorities searched for the weapon used in the dismemberment. 24:52.523 --> 24:54.366 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't 24:54.346 --> 24:58.038 [SPEAKER_00]: I was also unable to find the outcome of the toxicology report. 24:58.339 --> 25:07.208 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no official confirmation I could find that the body was definitely James Cameron's not the director, but everything points to it, having been so. 25:08.217 --> 25:14.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Waiting for more evidence before they could prosecute her for homicide, Los Angeles let the Oregon case take the lead. 25:14.990 --> 25:22.385 [SPEAKER_00]: After her arrest on November 10, the big question was if she was going to fight extradition back to Portland, which might have made sense. 25:22.786 --> 25:30.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Use up some time and resources, let them focus on charging you for something where there is a chopped up body, but no sign of a crime. 25:30.020 --> 25:34.650 [SPEAKER_00]: If she had pushed for an extradition hearing, the ordeal could have taken up to three months. 25:35.111 --> 25:39.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, her public defender asked for only a month's delay for preparing. 25:39.100 --> 25:47.860 [SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, there wasn't a big fight against the extradition and Karen was soon back in Oregon, preparing to go to trial for the murder of her missing daughter. 25:47.840 --> 25:52.327 [SPEAKER_00]: The lack of charges from the death of James and L.A. wasn't a total loss for the case. 25:52.748 --> 26:01.642 [SPEAKER_00]: The state was planning on using the evidence from that case to prove that this woman was cold, calculating, and had a history of dismembering people. 26:02.423 --> 26:03.204 [SPEAKER_00]: Boer? 26:03.685 --> 26:04.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:04.506 --> 26:06.790 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they were planning on doing that at least. 26:07.030 --> 26:12.058 [SPEAKER_00]: That was until Karen pled not guilty by a reason of insanity. 26:12.443 --> 26:14.827 [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't saying she hadn't killed Elizabeth. 26:15.227 --> 26:17.992 [SPEAKER_00]: She was going to fight the reasoning behind it, though. 26:18.833 --> 26:21.737 [SPEAKER_00]: In January, 2002, Karen's trial began. 26:21.777 --> 26:28.047 [SPEAKER_00]: There was no jury just a judge to decide if Karen was in a sane mindset when she killed Elizabeth. 26:28.628 --> 26:29.870 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot was writing on this case. 26:30.271 --> 26:33.275 [SPEAKER_00]: If the judge felt Karen was sane, she would go to prison. 26:33.856 --> 26:39.565 [SPEAKER_00]: In sane at the time and currently dealing with mental health issues, she could be sentenced to the Oregon State Hospital. 26:39.545 --> 26:46.792 [SPEAKER_00]: There was even a possibility she could be found to have been insane at the time of the murder, but was no longer a danger, and could just walk free. 26:47.613 --> 26:54.839 [SPEAKER_00]: The state got started, presenting the story of a woman collapsing under the weight of life's stresses, but not handling it appropriately. 26:54.879 --> 27:00.785 [SPEAKER_00]: They had witnesses from when Karen was in jail for refusing to comply with the order to bring Elizabeth to court. 27:01.285 --> 27:08.252 [SPEAKER_00]: They claimed Karen admitted to killing, dismembering, and disposing of Elizabeth's body in a way it would never be found. 27:08.232 --> 27:17.606 [SPEAKER_00]: A psychologist did an interview with Karen who admitted she shot her nine-year-old daughter in the head took her body into the primary bedroom's bathroom and dismembered her. 27:18.186 --> 27:21.611 [SPEAKER_00]: During that interview Karen stated she was listening for sirens. 27:22.092 --> 27:26.899 [SPEAKER_00]: This was an important detail as it showed Karen knew she was doing something wrong. 27:26.879 --> 27:41.850 [SPEAKER_00]: So even if she was being paranoid or having a mental issue at that time, they were saying, if you're doing an action, but you're listening for Syrians, you're saying, I know that this is, I could be in trouble for this. 27:42.691 --> 27:49.717 [SPEAKER_00]: After cutting her own daughter up into pieces, Karen put Elizabeth in the freezer as she quote didn't have money for a funeral. 27:50.358 --> 27:59.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Using photos, the state showed a boat that was supposedly used by Karen to take her daughter out to the Pacific Ocean where she dropped some of Elizabeth's body overboard. 27:59.966 --> 28:12.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Since it was a whale watching vessel, there were reports, though I'm not sure how sensationalized they are, that she purposely went out while whales were present to be sure Elizabeth's 28:12.357 --> 28:17.385 [SPEAKER_00]: its possible Karen's trip out to see occurred when she was first arrested in Newport. 28:18.486 --> 28:24.896 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the biggest pieces of the state's case to show Karen's motive for committing such an atrocity was the divorce from Michael. 28:25.397 --> 28:28.141 [SPEAKER_00]: The rage she had toward her former husband was deep. 28:28.541 --> 28:36.373 [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't anything about this in an article, but the fact that the couple or at least Karen was Mormon was probably a big piece of that. 28:36.353 --> 28:40.502 [SPEAKER_00]: In the Mormon culture, you're married not for life, but for eternity. 28:40.522 --> 28:48.118 [SPEAKER_00]: A divorce is a big no-no and a shame, so it's very possible that she just wanted to shame and or hurt him in return. 28:48.892 --> 28:57.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of the church, a witness who was friends with Karen testified that she had mentioned wanting to commit suicide and to take Elizabeth with her. 28:57.946 --> 29:04.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen's decision to not only be uncooperative in the beginning, but to run was also a mark against her insanity plea. 29:04.956 --> 29:10.765 [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know what you're doing as wrong, because you are being insane at that time, why would you run? 29:10.745 --> 29:16.715 [SPEAKER_00]: She lied to people in Oregon about Elizabeth being in California and people in California about her being in Oregon. 29:17.276 --> 29:18.578 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen had changed her hair. 29:18.638 --> 29:20.742 [SPEAKER_00]: She had stolen and created IDs. 29:20.862 --> 29:24.108 [SPEAKER_00]: She was hiding across multiple states and possibly countries. 29:24.869 --> 29:26.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Then the LA case came into play. 29:27.253 --> 29:35.487 [SPEAKER_00]: She may not have killed James, but she admitted to having dismembered him, which again was done so well it was remarked on by the coroner. 29:35.467 --> 29:42.860 [SPEAKER_00]: Having admitted to doing the same to Elizabeth, she was showing she knew what she was doing, and that it was an efficient way to hide a body. 29:43.561 --> 29:50.894 [SPEAKER_00]: Although there was the argument of who but an insane person would cut up their own daughter and do it again to a family friend. 29:51.655 --> 29:55.602 [SPEAKER_00]: As for her insanity, the defense, they kind of agreed with the state. 29:56.071 --> 29:59.836 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Karen's life was collapsing as was her ability to handle it. 30:00.197 --> 30:01.298 [SPEAKER_00]: She was getting divorced. 30:01.398 --> 30:02.280 [SPEAKER_00]: She was out of work. 30:02.340 --> 30:04.783 [SPEAKER_00]: Her ex had been an abusive substance user. 30:05.064 --> 30:06.686 [SPEAKER_00]: Her home was going into foreclosure. 30:06.746 --> 30:18.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the state used that information to say she snapped and wanted revenge on her husband, her defense pointed out that with her family history of mental illness, this was a recipe for disaster. 30:19.072 --> 30:23.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Her defense shared that angels had told Karen to send Elizabeth to them. 30:24.062 --> 30:36.405 [SPEAKER_00]: She had suffered a brief psychotic disorder when the murder occurred, leading her to believe the only way to protect Elizabeth from the mental issues she was undoubtedly born with, Karen would have to end her life. 30:36.757 --> 30:37.899 [SPEAKER_00]: The state was not buying it. 30:38.240 --> 30:39.042 [SPEAKER_00]: They kept pushing. 30:39.082 --> 30:42.149 [SPEAKER_00]: This was simply a plan for revenge on Michael. 30:42.529 --> 30:45.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause him, the same pain he had caused, Karen. 30:45.355 --> 30:53.533 [SPEAKER_00]: It was argued that Elizabeth's death was just the start of a murder suicide plan by Karen, but she was unable to go through with it. 30:53.851 --> 30:57.054 [SPEAKER_00]: This could also go back to the church and fits with her story. 30:57.475 --> 30:59.297 [SPEAKER_00]: She was found with a gun at the motel. 30:59.657 --> 31:02.200 [SPEAKER_00]: She had superficial cuts at James's apartment. 31:03.141 --> 31:18.817 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael reported that while they did have a very difficult marriage and Karen had a history of being manipulative, volatile, and prone to lashing out, he never saw mental health issues, which I kind of argue those kind of sound-like mental health issues. 31:18.897 --> 31:19.297 [SPEAKER_00]: They do. 31:19.317 --> 31:22.120 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, being volatile and lashing out. 31:22.100 --> 31:30.073 [SPEAKER_00]: He felt that she struggled more with being unhappy, which would be depression, which is a mental health issue, Michael. 31:30.133 --> 31:37.965 [SPEAKER_00]: He felt Karen struggled more with living in a distorted reality to fit her needs rather than having full delusions. 31:39.076 --> 31:43.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do understand what they're saying as far as the angels talking to are in that kind of thing. 31:44.085 --> 31:46.188 [SPEAKER_00]: I watched the Andrea Yates documentary. 31:46.208 --> 31:59.110 [SPEAKER_00]: It was really fascinating to hear the religious side of things that basically for some believers of certain things, there are only so many spaces available in heaven. 31:59.090 --> 32:02.577 [SPEAKER_00]: So you need to get them while you can. 32:02.597 --> 32:10.492 [SPEAKER_00]: And in that Andrea Gates shoes one that drowned her five children, that was what she was doing, which she was like, things are really bad. 32:10.533 --> 32:13.318 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure they have their place in heaven. 32:13.754 --> 32:15.898 [SPEAKER_00]: reading this case over and over and diving into. 32:15.918 --> 32:26.237 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like every time there's that little hint of well, I know how intense Mormon can be and I know people can think that they're doing the right thing and it's like, oh, but then she cut her up and maybe fed her to whales. 32:26.497 --> 32:29.603 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think that was the case. 32:29.583 --> 32:33.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael said, quote, she wasn't happy a lot of the time. 32:33.348 --> 32:41.320 [SPEAKER_00]: She convinced me quite a few times that the reason she was so unhappy was because of something I did or didn't do or did or didn't say. 32:41.340 --> 32:45.106 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't take out the trash when she asked me to and she would go off. 32:45.526 --> 32:46.608 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't care about me. 32:46.668 --> 32:48.150 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't care about the household. 32:49.051 --> 32:52.056 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael told of how if he went for a walk without Karen. 32:52.096 --> 32:52.797 [SPEAKER_00]: She'd be angry. 32:53.358 --> 32:57.143 [SPEAKER_00]: As a relationship partner, she was needy and fearful of abandonment. 32:57.528 --> 33:00.833 [SPEAKER_00]: The judge in the case heard all the evidence and weighed his options. 33:01.373 --> 33:09.024 [SPEAKER_00]: He found Karen to have been sane at the time that she killed her daughter Elizabeth, and she was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. 33:10.025 --> 33:15.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Karen Lee Huster remains behind bars at the Coffee Creek Correctional Facility in Wilsonville, Oregon. 33:15.553 --> 33:23.704 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no set-release date and she's got exactly a year to go before she can even start considering tricking the Pearl Board into letting her out. 33:23.684 --> 33:26.931 [SPEAKER_00]: Elizabeth and Hustard's remains have never been recovered. 33:27.473 --> 33:35.230 [SPEAKER_00]: There isn't much hope of any part of her ever being found, but she does remain listed on the Charlie project and Namis, just in case. 33:35.918 --> 33:39.681 [SPEAKER_00]: So that is the tragic story of Elizabeth Hustler. 33:39.942 --> 33:42.924 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, thank you to Carrie for sending me this case. 33:43.064 --> 33:46.187 [SPEAKER_00]: I recognized Elizabeth's face. 33:46.307 --> 33:51.071 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if we ever did maybe a true crime Tuesday or something on it, but just a horrible case. 33:51.151 --> 33:52.753 [SPEAKER_00]: And I find it so fascinating. 33:52.813 --> 34:05.284 [SPEAKER_00]: And I maybe even ironic that she got caught because she had a body, but no criminal charges to go face charges where there was a crime, but no body. 34:06.378 --> 34:22.918 [SPEAKER_00]: So next summer I believe I think it's June or maybe spring time as when she's at her 25 years we'll see what kind of effort she makes for parole and obviously if there's any kind of hearing or trial I will keep you guys updated because this woman deserves 34:22.898 --> 34:30.547 [SPEAKER_00]: all the time behind bars, not to mention no justice for James's family in California. 34:30.567 --> 34:36.754 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she was an unwell person who was very angry at her ex-husband. 34:37.775 --> 34:49.648 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why Elizabeth got the brunt of that or was the victim of that, but I guess it's a more common motive than it seems like it would be to want to punish through murder, but not the person that you're 34:51.535 --> 35:10.620 [SPEAKER_00]: with Josh Hart at work, with a different project, and myself being the one writing the episodes, we haven't been the best at Patreon, but for those listening, not on Patreon, we want you to know that over on Patreon for just $1 a month, not only will it be ad-free, but we've added extra snippets from the show. 35:10.760 --> 35:19.551 [SPEAKER_00]: So some episodes have like five, 10, 15 minutes more of usually pretty ridiculous stupid content of us talking. 35:19.531 --> 35:22.879 [SPEAKER_00]: over on Patreon that you'd have for just $1, add it to your episode. 35:23.260 --> 35:24.062 [SPEAKER_00]: So go check that out. 35:24.824 --> 35:25.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Bonus content. 35:25.846 --> 35:26.287 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 35:26.388 --> 35:26.969 [SPEAKER_01]: My friends. 35:27.590 --> 35:28.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Bonus bonus bonus. 35:28.713 --> 35:31.600 [SPEAKER_01]: And we do it because money. 35:33.031 --> 35:35.035 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only reason we do anything. 35:35.636 --> 35:37.420 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't get out of bed for less than eight dollars. 35:37.600 --> 35:44.694 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one way that we can offer something special and extra and with a pretty easy method to the editing. 35:44.714 --> 35:47.560 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a huge tax for us to try to do that. 35:47.700 --> 35:47.940 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:48.081 --> 35:48.882 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a nice little thing. 35:48.902 --> 35:49.904 [SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate you guys. 35:49.924 --> 35:50.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:50.185 --> 35:54.313 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want you to be like the heck of my doughnut, I'm not picturing if I'm not getting nothing so. 35:54.293 --> 35:55.254 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're doing. 35:55.334 --> 35:55.835 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're doing it. 35:55.855 --> 35:56.295 [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing it. 35:56.315 --> 35:57.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Bonus content. 35:57.276 --> 35:58.297 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, longer episodes. 35:58.537 --> 36:00.179 [SPEAKER_00]: Uncut. 36:00.199 --> 36:01.000 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not uncut. 36:01.020 --> 36:01.640 [SPEAKER_00]: We still added it. 36:01.720 --> 36:03.242 [SPEAKER_00]: But still uncut. 36:03.762 --> 36:05.264 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfilled it. 36:05.284 --> 36:06.045 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see you there. 36:14.633 --> 36:24.283 [SPEAKER_00]: In February 1978, two kids met at a dorm party at the... What's the word? 36:25.462 --> 36:26.824 [SPEAKER_00]: This fucking mosquito. 36:26.884 --> 36:29.829 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry for, I'm sorry for interrupting so much. 36:29.869 --> 36:30.329 [SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead. 36:30.349 --> 36:31.271 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're being fun. 36:31.872 --> 36:32.472 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm fun. 36:32.533 --> 36:36.498 [SPEAKER_00]: The fighting would finally be over. 36:37.300 --> 36:38.722 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I can't do that, so it was actually. 36:39.783 --> 36:41.566 [SPEAKER_01]: California, Livermore. 36:42.548 --> 36:44.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful Livermore, California. 36:44.767 --> 36:46.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Crap, but do it all! 36:46.209 --> 36:48.993 [SPEAKER_00]: She stayed a step ahead, though. 36:49.314 --> 36:51.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she always stayed a step a step. 36:55.923 --> 37:05.457 [SPEAKER_00]: She always stayed a step of, oh my god, I can't say it, I step ahead, I step ahead, I step ahead, I step ahead, I step ahead, I step ahead. 37:05.477 --> 37:05.877 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, bye bye. 37:06.097 --> 37:07.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is that a real part? 37:07.239 --> 37:09.002 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you wouldn't want that at this time. 37:09.422 --> 37:11.365 [SPEAKER_01]: My blender bus is packed. 37:12.830 --> 37:16.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Then the L.A. case plane, claim into came. 37:17.455 --> 37:18.236 [SPEAKER_00]: She was long gone. 37:19.217 --> 37:21.980 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all the... Ha ha ha ha! 37:22.200 --> 37:23.822 [SPEAKER_00]: I made it on for a minute. 37:23.842 --> 37:24.482 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man. 37:24.502 --> 37:42.381 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to stop for a minute.