[SPEAKER_03]: Hello everyone and welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole, Quark, Dax and their good friends, Tom and Harry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek Actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan Make.
[SPEAKER_00]: New.
[SPEAKER_02]: and myself, Garrett Wong.
[SPEAKER_02]: For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, you're on a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh uh, uh uh, uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_00]: from McNeil, the Neal part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't want to be real.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be Ronnie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Romic.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I'm so glad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And do you get to stay home for a while?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: This whole traveling thing of showbiz.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I like it anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like being home.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel weird saying that it's not that I think if I got a job in the business that my life would turn into a hurricane because my age and just, I know how much that's not in your control.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I was young, I love traveling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like getting jobs and traveling and go, go, go, go.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I'm noticing that as I'm getting older, I really
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: The millier routine and not so much drama in the day to day experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think, Gawa?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just feel like for me my last 15, 20 years has been traveling so much that I don't even know what's anything different than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's become my regular.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it has been trying
[SPEAKER_00]: When I ended up hitting some weird delays, like I had a I flew to Salt Lake and I had a five hour delay, a five hour layover, and yeah, it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Calgary Salt Lake Salt Lake.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was almost going to rent a car and drive to you because it was so yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you should have called me if you knew you had a five hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's time to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I thought a lot for sure down town.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, then there was an airplane mechanical delay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the total delay that I was in Salt Lake was nine and a half hours Robby that was mine and I just sat there and and each hour I kept thinking I could have called Robbie an hour ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could have called him an hour ago It's still seen him and come back and it was bad
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm less than an hour from the airport.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are a cyclist.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to plan a road trip to your house.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just in case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please.
[SPEAKER_02]: How long would that drive be?
[SPEAKER_02]: New Mexico to 8 or 9 hours?
[SPEAKER_02]: 8 or 9.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's 8 hours to Vegas.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going through mountainous terrain?
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be.
[SPEAKER_00]: detrimental to you at this time of year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get a shot in this moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a Prius, but I did drive cross country and through you taught to LA when Max and I move that to LA in 2017.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the most extraordinary landscape.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how there isn't a series sci-fi series being shot there because you're really because I was, um, let's just do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: Could that serve as the Martian planet
[SPEAKER_03]: Max and I talked about that when we were driving through.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, this is the perfect place for an alien landscape.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you don't have to work at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to get there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a town in southern Utah near Zion, where back in the 50s they made a lot of the B monster movies.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a walk of fame in this tiny little town.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like only the B-monster movies and some of the westerns were made there because it was such a... Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like a little like a Hollywood walk of fame there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there 50s?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a museum there too?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like a movie museum of all the movies that were shot down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got the name of the town, but it's near Zion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go check this out.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great little town.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, good to see you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should do some birthdays.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have the first birthday.
[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday to our friend, Daniel Friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: March 9th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday Daniel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy happy happy birthday Daniel.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next we have Neil McCray on us very special day March 13th is your birthday happy birthday Neil happy lucky 13
[SPEAKER_03]: Neil.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, Neil.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have another birthday on March 15th.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is Salah is March 15th?
[SPEAKER_02]: Our little Isala.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, Isala.
[SPEAKER_03]: Happy happy birthday, Isala.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Isala, we've known you since birth until now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're turning into a very, very, very beautiful smart young lady.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday to you, Isala.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a beautiful poem.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on a roll lately.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm feeling really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes they start bumpy, but lately, I feel like I've been in a groove so I'm very proud of myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you don't have training wheels on either.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, I'm finally a real poet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you'd be the judge of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: To capture a trader in the end, Cisco crossed lines, he swore he'd defend.
[SPEAKER_02]: When Eddington fled, something snapped in his head, so Eddington, finally, would bend.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it!
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn!
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you!
[SPEAKER_03]: Really good job!
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it!
[SPEAKER_00]: Really good job!
[SPEAKER_02]: Terri, do you have a poem?
[SPEAKER_03]: I do!
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of long.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco Cisco, what should he do?
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco Cisco, he's in a stew.
[SPEAKER_03]: The bad guy is on the run.
[SPEAKER_03]: Playing by the rules is no fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco Cisco prick all the rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco Cisco you have the tools.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are all free and the bad guy can't flee.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco Cisco your integrity shot Cisco.
[SPEAKER_03]: We love you a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that I like it a lot I did well because you found a tempo or rhythm it almost like a cheer You know those are also great song lyrics or even a wrap you know because just the way it is It has that little rhythm to it, which will be really super cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, thank you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I could time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's hear hi.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could time for the uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's for the uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go, it's for squared the uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cisco's obsession, chase for Eddington ramps up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, what an eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mmm, nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is written by Peter Allen Fields and directed by Victor Lobel.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I really liked about Victor is he talked to us about wanting it to feel the chaos.
[SPEAKER_03]: So us kind of not stepping on each other, but really on top of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there was a little more background going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the defiant wasn't working properly.
[SPEAKER_02]: You had to everything together.
[SPEAKER_02]: locally kind of talk to each other more than usual.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I noticed that for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And way, way, way tighter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I remember really being happy about it because it felt more realistic period.
[SPEAKER_02]: I made a note later in those scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish the defined and voice were always like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Normal like people talking to each other and
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, even when the captain's talking to someone, you know, one-on-one, there should be people in the back room in normal scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, talking different departments.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there should be a sense of urgency nearly all the time so that the space of quiet makes you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like that in this episode a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I felt like Victor
[SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately, that didn't carry through.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I really, really loved how he directed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember being in kind and funny and just really easy to be around.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what's weird, Robbie?
[SPEAKER_00]: I never clocked that when we were filming.
[SPEAKER_00]: That the fact that there should be some dialogue that we hear of people walking behind this because we're on a vessel.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not taking their turn to talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are doing jobs constantly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: But even if you add it for ADR,
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there should be a hum of ADR voices and some loop groups.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, some loop group dialogue back there that When we're filming, so we have to worry about exactly the entire thing, but I remember there was a spot where CORE, uh, Nog is relaying and I thought,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I can't stand that I can't just hear him faint in the background repeating avery.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it was an urgent.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was one of the last ones.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was super urgent.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should have overheard him talking to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we do let some of it in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do hear something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he definitely got.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just wanted to say that about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say about Peter Allen Fields, who this is written by.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a co-producer during season one and a producer during season two of DS9.
[SPEAKER_00]: So fields, he wrote a number of episodes over the course of the first two seasons, but he was retired from the television business when he wrote this particular episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: He lied about his age to join the Marines during the Korean War.
[SPEAKER_02]: What time?
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was a 14-year-old.
[SPEAKER_00]: 13-year-old?
[SPEAKER_00]: What was he?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well he you had to be 18.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think okay, so he was from he was 16 years old He lied about his age to fight in the Korean war he fought in the battle of Inchon and was captured and spent Several months as a prisoner of war.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's crazy
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guestars, of course, Kenneth Marshall as Michael Eddington, Eric Peer Point as Sanders and Aaron Eisenberg as Nog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great to see you in this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank goodness.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he did great.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kenneth Marshall, what is he?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Such a great actor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, a little bit of trivia, talking about all the people that are in this episode, the people that are not in this episode, we have no Armin Schimmerman.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have no Alexander Stig, and we have no Soroclofton.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are three series regulars that are not in this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of trivia, Cisco's actions in for the uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: generated a lot of discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ronald, you more commented, now we've stirred it up and let people really argue about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cisco took an action and took a step that probably, Picard wouldn't have.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what made it an interesting episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see Kirk taking this action.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed to me like what Cisco did was basically level the playing field again.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's quote from
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, so we start off with a captain's log, star date 50485.2, and I just want to talk about star date for a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a star date, which was Gene Roddenberry's idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't want to use
[SPEAKER_02]: the calendar that we use.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted some futuristic time system for Star Trek.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he used Julian Day's system of calculating a star date, which was designed to be independent of Earth's Gregorian calendar and the count for the relativity relativistic time shifts in space.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is all star date as Gene Roddenberry's idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's made up, but it is real in that when you read it out, I think you can say, okay, this comes from this time here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: The numbers are not random.
[SPEAKER_02]: The real thing, like comes from real thing, but it's still a little twisted, like in the original series that used
[SPEAKER_02]: very simplistic numbers next gen became a little more structured and then as it moves into the movies and other series it became more kelvin influence so it's it's it's not consistent start out exactly but right so is it like a location as the date?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it's relative time with the way the stars move.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's this guy, it sounds like a book you need to read about how this is on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting this out to the fans, Julian Day, the astronomer Julian Day system.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like you guys to do a deep dive into star dates.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please is it d a y e or d a y.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is d a y, which is ironic that he came with a calendar system.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to tell obligated good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing funny about Julian Gregorian, if that was his yes, or calendar, Julian calendar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there you go, fans, Robbie's giving you a homework assignment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone's got to come up with a TED talk about star dates.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot more there than I ever knew.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I caught the attention.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for bringing that up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's very cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Cisco's got a captain's log.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, uh, I've come to Marva for a planet near the Badlands to rendezvous with an informer who claims to have information on the whereabouts of a marquee leader and former Starfleet officer, Michael Eddington.
[SPEAKER_02]: bum bum.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we know we're going to be on the hunt for Michael Eddington here.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to a planet hell cave set refugee camp.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's walking through the caves, the Cisco, all by himself, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I noticed that was a welding gag.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you see the guy welding and these sort of stops and nods to that's the the old welding gag.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whenever you need like,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, low tech interactive, something cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: They pull out this thing, the special effects department pulls out this thing that creates sparks, and they're like, anybody can do it, anybody can do it, actors can do it, background.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember doing it before.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's an old chestnut, the old welding gag.
[SPEAKER_02]: The old gag in the cave.
[SPEAKER_02]: It means low-tech.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're real low-tech.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, anyway Cisco's looking for Sinta Sinta.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, who is Sinta?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like yeah, who is Sinta?
[SPEAKER_03]: It must know his codename.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a codename.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it sounds like a tea that I had a couple of weeks ago, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: A brewed tea, the sing talk, you know, green tea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, it does sound like you're good tea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, the welder guy points to a curtain.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, go look, it doesn't have any lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it must be background with a welder thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's welding, though.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's anybody can do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a small thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So how we understood it was that curtain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, Cisco goes through the curtain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is he by himself if this is such a dangerous?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think number one.
[SPEAKER_03]: That felt dangerous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's in civilian clothes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's undercover on top of being by himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you think it looks like himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, right off the bat, this is something that Cisco as the captain of DS9, the station, would not do himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: This would be somebody else doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does show that it's his obsession, though, that he's obsessed with that agent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Immediately shown that this is personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know this is personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not business.
[SPEAKER_03]: It feels like it's no.
[SPEAKER_03]: And his ego's wrapped up in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why isn't anybody else there to be knocked up?
[SPEAKER_00]: He cannot separate his ego at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so wrapped up in this situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he walks behind the curtain, and suddenly there's a disruptor to his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: We revealed that it's adding to him with a disruptor.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Sinkta was who Siskta was supposed to meet.
[SPEAKER_02]: We never meet Sinkta because Eddington says, Oh, Sinkta had an accident, but he's not dead because he's not a killer Eddington.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just stranded him on a nasty planet says that he betrayed the Machi, the Sinkta guy, and Siskta starts telling him what you know about betrayal and Eddington thinks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco is embarrassed that he lost adding to them and has watched that this is personal Cisco says, no, it's about treason.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't think it was a little speech about how the Refugees were treated very unfairly says don't follow me anymore or you're going to regret it gives him a real threat there and he beams out and Kira traces a signal to a mochi ship Cisco says beaming me back on board and let's pursue
[SPEAKER_02]: battle stations.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the opening scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a little flat to be honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish, and as we've all said, nice things about Victor lobald, the director.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say I'm going to be critical of him in this episode because it was all sort of a very
[SPEAKER_02]: middle of the road, there are highs and lows in terms of, you know, this is the opening teaser.
[SPEAKER_02]: This should just like make us go, oh my gosh, I've got to watch this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't pause for you at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, me neither.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't feel like he was in real danger even though as we're describing this, he should have.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, should have felt that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to pitch as we go through this episode and note this perspective to low, because I do think he's a lovely man and had a lot of good ideas here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to pitch some ways that you could have directed this differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this scene, if it had been hand held, if they hadn't just stood still the whole time to talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I didn't have been circling around him and moving and you felt like, oh, my God, Cisco's really in danger, it would have helped.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when he says, look out the curtain, it should have been more aggressive and threatening, like put the gun to his head, just, I, I feel like this scene because of the teaser needed more energy and stakes, and it didn't feel that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like a couple of people standing still and talking.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Eddington should have been, even though he's saying all these things, I felt like he should have been more scary.
[SPEAKER_03]: more threatening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: In his tone and his body, even if he's that calm, that's okay that you're calm, but there needs to be this danger bubbling behind what he's saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I could, where I'm not a killer, but I could kill you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have so much an issue with what how he was saying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, Robby said it in terms of how the way it was shot It was so just very, very dull and if there was more movement, I really think that maybe There was a camera then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Marvin Rush was great at this of like Marvin would put the camera on a shoulder and shoot it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would operate the camera himself He loved him held shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, by the way a little tangent
[SPEAKER_02]: Marvin Rush started as a teenager as what they call a news stringer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So back in the days, back in the old days, independent reporters, almost like YouTubers now, I guess or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marvin was one of these guys called a stringer where he would take a film camera.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had his own little 16 millimeter film camera and he'd have a scanner at home.
[SPEAKER_02]: and he'd hear the police radio or the fire radio say there's a fire at a warehouse while Marvin would take his own personal camera and go film the fire and then he would sell that footage to news stations as a teenager.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was Marvin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's freaking genius.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marvin, on the scanner, heard about the Patty Hearst Bank Robber, remember the Patty Hearst in the Valley.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he went over and got footage that became iconic footage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marvin Robber, footage as a young man, his own little 16 millimeter film camera.
[SPEAKER_02]: He got iconic footage of the shootout with Patty Hearst and the,
[SPEAKER_02]: Symbunies, liberation army, the SLA, whatever the... Oh, my god, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that she was a part of for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: That kind of energy would have been great for this scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marvin would have knocked that up.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I don't know if you clock this or not, either of you, but the other not distracting and non-threatening thing was Eddington's disruptor.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like wood grain.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could tell it was fake.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here are the acts and work for there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's got to be some action happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're on the defiant following at the Incident Maximum Warps, Cisco calls a nearby Starfleet ship, and we are introduced to this new hollow communicator, where people instead of being on a screen are kind of holograms on the defiant bridge.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you guys think?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a-
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to hear your opinion and I'm also going to read something to about it, too, at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, to fair, what do you think about the hollow, um, communicate?
[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, I didn't really put that together.
[SPEAKER_03]: What the hell was going on when that happened?
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it should have been like something maybe Chief O'Brien was really excited about installing, so we knew about it because that was confusing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought he had been to board when I was watching the first thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it was okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that it should be kind of, obviously, in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should have kept it sort of fritzy the hologram so that it kept because it felt like they were right there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have a bunch of problems with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it continued.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you keep this?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like the screen because that's what we're all used to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's seeing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This episode marks the first use.
[SPEAKER_00]: and mention of the hollow communicator.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea to use this device was Ronald E. Morse.
[SPEAKER_00]: According to more, that's something I had been pushing for because I just think it's so absurd that in the 24th century they have holiday technology that allows them to recreate ancient Rome, but everybody talks to each other on television monitors is just so lame.
[SPEAKER_00]: The view screens have been around for over 30 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we move to something a little bit more interesting?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like pulling teeth, then iris Stephen Bear was completely behind more as idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: View screen scenes are always difficult to pull off, the longer they are, the more boring they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And having a character talk to someone on a view screen is very distancing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it did work in this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: We never could have had Eddington on a view screen for all of his scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have been dramatic death.
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite this, however, the hollow communicator was not seen as successful in this episode, something alluded to by Gary Hudsel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gary Hudsel was quoted as saying it was a terrible idea from the get-go.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea was to create this amazing 3D image, but TVs are 2D medium, so it's hard to show that it's 3D.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to move the camera around so that the audience can see that it's 3D, but then it could look to them like the guy just beamed in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to find a way to deal with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It created all these problems that the writers hadn't thought about and it missed the whole point of why Gene Roddenberry wanted a few screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could avoid unnecessary expense.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hollow communicator would would be seen only once more in Cisco's office on D-space 9.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's one more picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think good.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, in the new Star Trek, they do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they do well because it's, there's a little bit of a technology, though, floating, yeah, they couldn't do that when we were shooting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, it probably would have been too expensive, but I like it when they have somebody on the screen initially, but then we go on to their Yes, yes, because then there's enough stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were standing there without their
[SPEAKER_02]: ship around them and they were reaching over and touching buttons that were invisible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, weird, weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we needed to be in their ship.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would have been more powerful, too, because we're not seeing the Machi.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not seeing what their ship looks like.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was bothering me.
[SPEAKER_03]: As a viewer, I want to see his army.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first one we see is Sanders, who's a captain of a ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco is sitting in his captain's share, but Sanders is standing there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he would be sitting on the station.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he would be sitting in his job.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would be sitting as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was thinking when Sanders is standing there.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, but I thought he was literally there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he wasn't literally there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he knows.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the first time he was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the first time was he?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no, he comes into the ops.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sanders comes into ops later.
[SPEAKER_02]: But later, he's he's a low.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: The hologram.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be sitting in his chair.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I started thinking, oh, Sanders on his ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he says, oh, I, it looks like you're on my bridge or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Cisco, Cisco sitting in his chair and I thought, well, if Sanders is on his bridge, he's looking at Cisco just sitting in midair because, yeah, like it would be weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what a Sanders is looking at.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he would be like, yeah, it's almost like he has nothing underneath him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would just be, yeah, he did position floating there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it would look like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would be weird anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a success this hollow communicator.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sanders says, uh, I'll help you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll go in or scept.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Eddington in the Monarchy, and suddenly the Monarchy ship with Eddington reverses course, drops out of warp and turns around, and they're heading straight for them, and Cisco prepares to fire when suddenly everything shuts down.
[SPEAKER_02]: The lights kind of flicker, and there's a massive computer failure on the defiant, and Eddington pops on to this hollow communicator.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, and he says, uh, I love to cascade virus, and I could destroy you right now, but I won't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a killer and Cisco.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, Cisco, don't make this personal, just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone and he disappears.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like this cascade virus because it's so major should have been a bigger deal than just flickering the lights.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my name.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: literally the lights just flickered and suddenly they're disabled that we've seen them in battle with like sparks and all kinds of things and they've fought through that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So well, or suddenly everything is almost black and there because how do we have lights?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can have lights?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the in the generator power should go on an emergency power source and red alert.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have red alert.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, automatically because
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would have been good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very quickly about peer point.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the act of the police captain Sanders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Iris Steven Bear specifically sought out Eric peer point for the role of Captain Sanders with the intention of having him become a recurring character.
[SPEAKER_00]: possibly killing him off later in season six, however, bear never got around to putting his idea into action and Sanders was never seen again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was sort of like, I know that's too bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he did come back and enterprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he did four or five episodes of good rides.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had not as Sanders.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't work in the script.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought he was good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go to another captain's log start 804-88.2.
[SPEAKER_02]: The defiant has returned to the station, but not under its own power.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Starship Melanchey, Melanchey, Melanchey, it's almost sounds like a Spanish word or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Melanchey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Starship Melanchey had to tow us home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we see
[SPEAKER_02]: We see the defiant at the station.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go to ops.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Victor Lowell did Longland's walk and talk or Brian's filling them in on the cascade virus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Takes them right into the captain's office.
[SPEAKER_02]: A Brian says it's going to be two weeks to fix it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had Zoff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oto said he found a similar virus on this station.
[SPEAKER_02]: and he could have disabled the entire station.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Cisco sends him off to take care of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it says, Remind Starfleet, as he's leaving.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
[SPEAKER_02]: He goes, Remind Starfleet, that he sent Eddington because they didn't trust me.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Odo, giving that dig in right there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm so happy he said it, too, because I wasn't even thinking about it, because it was such a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was really great the writers added that in.
[SPEAKER_02]: War fills us in the two bowling freighters carrying selenium and rodium, rodium, no a trait.
[SPEAKER_02]: No a trait.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a couple of chemical.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a trait.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two bowling freighters with a bunch of chemicals disappeared.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not very valuable.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, but Warf goes to meet up with Dax to try to figure out why.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sanders arrives.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where he's in person, he's not a hologram.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he says tells Cisco that Starfleet has reassigned him to get adding to not Cisco anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think it's too long.
[SPEAKER_00]: They think eight months is too long and you should have found it my now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Beyond that, is it odd that Starfleet didn't tell
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco directly to have another captain tell him was just reason to give him another scene with Cisco because that felt really unprofessional to me like I would expect to Rick Burman to tell me something as you know and not the actor that was coming in to take over your drop right yeah that would be like that was a good yeah it just seemed unprofessional.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they wanted someone in person rather than a phone call or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, now they have these holographic things, then they could have whatever the ambassador or whoever's in charge of.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the actor.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a regular actor who comes on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm time to just like the hell to just go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why not have the admiral tell him I just thought that that stood out to me to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a rewrite for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well Cisco is not happy about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sanders is going to be the one to find adding to Francisco tells him good hunting as he leaves.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this, right after this scene ends, this is where the cut scene went.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a scene in the engine room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did they shoot it?
[SPEAKER_00]: They, well, it says a deleted or unfilm scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they did shoot it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So O'Brien and Bashir discussed Eddington and their opinion of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bashir also mentions that Starfleet accounting gets bills from Quark.
[SPEAKER_00]: O'Brien also tells Bashir a story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eddington told him about an Orion slave girl and a Tolorean quadrupedal species.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the scene, the pair realized they actually liked Eddington.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I've seen was in, therefore, to give Eddington a little bit of support.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of love.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a little bit of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, of course we were all fooled.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think it complicates things, which can be good sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you feel a little torn?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm kind of telling you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand two ways Cisco didn't pick up on anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That shows that he was just a normal crew member that everybody liked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: He'd fold everybody, not just Cisco.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be honest, I would have kept the scene in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have kept the scene in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what they'd took it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, it's probably it.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, we go to a hollow suite where Cisco is boxing and dax is holding the bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember shooting the scene, Terry?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a challenge to hold that bag.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was hitting it hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not letting, this was not, you know, what's, what's, uh, letting it go.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't going easy on you at all because there's times when you're in middle of your dialogue, you're like, and the, like, you were like the air is being knocked out of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, yeah, oh,
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's great because it felt more real, but the good thing is honestly, thank goodness, I'm six feet tall and thank goodness I'm as strong as I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the activity is a great idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again here, I wish Victor Lobel had shot this handheld.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing that was all very smooth and elegant and I think
[SPEAKER_02]: the camera could have had the energy of Cisco's frustration.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, make a little rough and tumble.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Seems like this, as the director, I think it's always really helpful to know where the point of view of the scene is.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a Cisco point of view.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should feel what he's feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then try to use the camera in that point of view.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so this is Cisco all angry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should have been, you know, whip hands and hand held and
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: More energetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the camera work was pretty middle of the road.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was neutral.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's too bad is it like forgetting that every tool you have is a character in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like music, the camera, the lighting, her makeup, the work, everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need everything to make it feel how we want the audience to feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's important.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's boxing hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's super mad at himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Dax basically in the scene says, let it go.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not your problem anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got a let it go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kira calls.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's got some news about Eddington.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go up to ops.
[SPEAKER_02]: Eddington has attacked her cardassing and calling it with cobalt, deceler dying, denied, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But died.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it's called.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cobalt.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's made up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cobalt.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's made up bad thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, cobalt de selenide, there we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Eddington is attacked, a card-assing colony, with cobalt de selenide, and all the card-assins are evacuating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dax says he used the stolen chemicals to reformulate the poison and Eddington plans to attack every colony in the sector, and only the Malenshe can stop them, so Sanders ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's been taken off this hunt.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's been told Sanders is the one to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Cisco says, well, there is another ship that can stop them in docking bay three.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know what he's talking about, it's the defiant.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he heads to the lift and without him even inviting his team, they all support him, they jump on the turbo lift.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco says, defiant, and then they head out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also wish we had more scenes like Avery boxing or just being in his civilian clothes just to make it feel like he lives there instead of always just works there and also how we all just filed in and felt like a little bit like Mod Squad or you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a little Oceans 11.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we go to the engine room, so the engine room on the defiant, Miles says only half of the defiant is working, even the comms are down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Miles had an idea to send orders.
[SPEAKER_02]: He brought nog along because his hearing during battle and during explosions.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... can pick up the captain's orders and he can be the one voice to carry all these messages and i like to errands errands uh... line as he heads off cisco says do you think you're ready for that could add no access sir yes sir absolutely
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco says, glad to hear it, report to the bridge, says, I sir, yeah, and then I see setting out he goes exploding.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just like to himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's very worried about their explosions.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he heads out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Miles has more bad news, more broken stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: He lists all the broken stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the good news is the hollow communicator is working just fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wrote down great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think what is the hollow communicator?
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know what that was.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know talked about it, but it was just such a weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're this weird, somebody explained it right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what you're talking about, but I mean, it does make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I read earlier, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, it totally does.
[SPEAKER_03]: We just couldn't achieve it.
[SPEAKER_02]: When the court or Cisco tells Dax, just say it, say he's crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sam crazy, Cisco says.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Dax says, you know, you're more like curse on.
[SPEAKER_02]: everyday.
[SPEAKER_02]: So proud of him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you're very proud.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Dax says just try and remember this when I do something a little crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a nice little scene on the walk.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You and you and Cisco have a lot of connecting moments in this episode, which I really liked.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did feel like I don't know if it was this one, but there were a couple of scenes where it felt like they took from different takes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, my daughter's ages really different, and it's like, oh, that could be true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when it feels jumpy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's often because they're taking performances from different takes and trying to make it seem like one scene, but sometimes they can be very different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like when you do ADR.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, they want to change her match the vocal performance and it's not the same performance anymore, the same energy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, no, and if they want you to lift the energy, but your whole body isn't doing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks like you're up to your separated because you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's disconnected.
[SPEAKER_03]: How to body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, after the Waggy Talk, we go to the bridge, Nag is basically on a cell phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you see that little thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really a mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that or a TV remote control.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it looked like a little tiny thing about, you know, five, six inches.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's what they used to look like then, too, didn't they?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: You either had the flip phone from... Motorola.
[SPEAKER_00]: Motorola.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking out for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything else was like one piece.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Nokia that was one piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: quick trivia, the scenes on the USS Defiant Bridge showing the crew operating the ship manually and relaying communications through Nog were written as an homage to a similar scene in the 1958 Robert Wise movie, Run Silent Run Deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was Stephen Bear commented great idea, I loved it, I we wanted it to feel like a submarine movie and we kept talking about Run Silent Run Deep for those scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll have to watch that movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know it either.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Nogs on the cell phone, he tells engineering relays to engineering to stand by impulse.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go to the engine room to see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we see that he's Nog is the one communicating, relaying all this, which I love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to say how much I loved when I had to give all, I mean, it was a lot to memorize, but I did it to all the tiny things about directing the ship, when we left deep space.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, half circle now, and then we flipped, and we, I mean, that was super cool shot.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I love that I had to manually tell the ship what to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish that happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because let's face it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't in all the Star Trek episodes or films.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone just touches controls.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you get a play by play from DAX.
[SPEAKER_00]: DAX is just saying, OK, and then this coefficient of this number has to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, why
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it feels so much more legit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, when that's in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it made me feel like I looked really like a master of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: My mastered flying.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this was the second character over the second human.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, true, that had the life of being a pilot.
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah she's got that experience it's silly but you do kind of want to own it when it's your character well they're preparing all these systems talking to each other out loud which we we all love and there's a lot of steps a lot more than usual because of these systems that are down this scene kind of shows how tricky it's going to be to move the ship around and they almost hit a pile on that's when you say half
[SPEAKER_02]: Rotator whatever you say.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's have roll now and then it goes right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just missed the pile on and they had off without a bit bad, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you scraped it a little bit like it's just go like gives you this look like no, this is my Tom Cruise move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, as exact top gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Once they head out, Cisco tells Worf they're going to need to start doing battle drills because of all this
[SPEAKER_02]: communications relay, it's going to be different than the old days than usual.
[SPEAKER_02]: battle drills are very important.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a space.
[SPEAKER_02]: Captain's log in space.
[SPEAKER_02]: After completing a series of readiness drills, we've entered the plasma fields of the badlands and begun our search for Eddington.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the badlands, I thought, were very cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, we're going into the badlands.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't that cool?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The smokey stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, was that the plasma field?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the badlands.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we're at, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we're trying to search for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That looks like that there was a plasma field in there too.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's probably plasma in the badlands in the badlands have all the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: basically the badlands have all the obstacles it's a tough place to fly and the defiant is is kind of you know 50% so it's going to be kind of like the witcher going through the woods well that's also a team and tiffer that's how our show started we get lost in the badlands and sucked into the Delta Quadrant we were just
[SPEAKER_00]: transport immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we are also, so here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a little bit of trivia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Voyager had originally used CGI to create the badlands, but no one really liked them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to create the badlands in for the uniform, the visual effects team poured liquid nitrogen, which boils furiously at room temperature onto a piece of black velvet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, according to Gary Hudson, that's how it is.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Through the mix, plasma fields.
[SPEAKER_03]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see it that he as she
[SPEAKER_02]: When we go back to the bridge, they're pursuing Kira's got found in the Trino Signature for Medi-Conship.
[SPEAKER_02]: They head that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, there's an incoming transmission.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's adding to on this hollow communicator again.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got a very cool jacket on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to comment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like his jacket.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to buy it.
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of members only vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: So from the auction, someone who is listening to this probably knows the person who has that who has adding to his jacket, it's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to ask Ken when you talk to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: It also could have been off the rag, in which case he might know from the tag on the inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, true.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like our set jackets were Eddie Bower.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, when we wore normal stuff sometime.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, well, that's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just go work on boxing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You might have been wearing something off the back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yes, but they took logos off of.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, well, that's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or you could just call Bob Blackman and ask him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So adding some pops into the hollow communicator says Cisco just can't resist following.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's really enjoying this.
[SPEAKER_02]: cat and mouse game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and he sends a book to Cisco.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lay Mizorab.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And says paint pay attention to inspectors of air.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's spent 20 years chasing a man who just stole some bread.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco doesn't understand what this is.
[SPEAKER_02]: why the book, but he locks weapons, Eddington ends his transmission, and we realize that this whole ship was a decoy.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was just a probe, and Cisco wants to continue the chase through the plasma field.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very cool shot of the plasma field.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love the plasma field.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love the plasma field.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's wild, that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in it, liquid nitrogen.
[SPEAKER_00]: very cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think Cisco realizes that he's been duped, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's like, let's we got to move now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get out of here quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to figure out what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then Kira finds the Melanchey Sandership.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was ambushed and it's dead in space.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's not very good news.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, yep, we have a little time passing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And later they are at the Melanchey Sanders hologram.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pops up, he's got dirt all over him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's definitely been in a battle.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can see and Cisco sends a damaged control team over to Sandership to help them out.
[SPEAKER_02]: love nog in action here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The dirt was confusing to me, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I kept thinking were you installing drywall?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it just seemed a little, no, they were in battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that, but it's to be sinned or something or I don't know, or torn.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just was just kind of chalked on like,
[SPEAKER_02]: But look like classic Star Trek battle mode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the charcoal.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's something.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would like like a tear or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Something on a, a, a scraping his face.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just seem a little dry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe his pants had split open down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll go on the bottom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just couldn't see it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it picked mode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Sanders is mad.
[SPEAKER_02]: He, he was tricked.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cardassian freighter to appear like it was in distress and then they attacked when he lowered his shields.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Eddington's clever.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been there before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to say Eddington is probably the most brilliant tactician we've come across at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look at all the things he's doing here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he has a very high IQ.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is a smart guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he's going to get out
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yes, he does, he's mad about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He tells Cisco to save him a seat at Eddington's court Marshall, which I liked, signs off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Next scene is another captain's log and space.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see, we hear Cisco say with the Defiance Computers, still not fully operational.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're relying on Odo back at each face nine to decipher the monkey message.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the meantime, we're combing the DMZ and hopes of a chance encounter with Eddington.
[SPEAKER_02]: but with each passing hour, our hopes are fading.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they found this message, this coded message.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they find it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that Sanders says, before he checks out in the last scene, he says, we intercepted a coded message from one of Edmonton's raiders.
[SPEAKER_02]: maybe you can decode at our computers or down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Sanders got that information, but they can't decode it, they need some help.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like some of these tracking shots, everybody's working on the bridge, they're waiting, there's some voiceover moments here, this is over, this captain's log, which is often just in space.
[SPEAKER_02]: it was a nice montage that I think Victor lovable did here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly, Odo appears on the hollow communicator that we've all voted we don't like.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says he's analyzed this mocking message it appears to be a brain nursery rhyme.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Odo thinks that it's a signal to a brain colony and he needs to keep his unstable weapons cold that that's what Eddington's message about and the brain know how to keep things cold so they can help Odo signs off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, Odo's like mining in the background because we don't see on this hollow communicator any of the set around him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's like, yeah, touching button.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What a weird song that was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listening to that brain song.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was not
[SPEAKER_02]: They think it might have something to do with the brain and Odo keeps working on it and is a transmission.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco has an idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says, we have any sensor relays near Portus 5, or if says, yes, to class 5, intelligence drones, Cisco wants to pull the logs and see who's been visiting the brain system.
[SPEAKER_02]: So why are they trying to keep these weapons cold?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are the brain involved?
[SPEAKER_02]: Put all this together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we have another log.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco says Oto's hunch has proven accurate.
[SPEAKER_02]: The drones detected a mockey freighter entering Portus 5, three hours ago, and the freighter was last seen headed towards the doorven sector of the DMZ.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're starting to, you know, find their tunnel and piece it all together.
[SPEAKER_02]: They discuss on the bridge, possible card-asking colony of targets in Portas 5, there's four colonies that have had recent defense upgrades, but two of them, Kutal and Panora didn't get defense upgrades, so they focus in on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Panora is the most helpless
[SPEAKER_02]: with the least defenses and Cisco says, everyone thinks that's where, you know, warf says, well, they'll probably go to Pinar, it's the most helpless Cisco goes, no, no, no, it'll be Katal, because Eddington likes to be unpredictable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we feel Cisco starting to get a little warmer on Eddington's thinking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, get inside his head a little more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go to Katal Prime, adding to his already attacked, Kira finds two Machete Raiders, they engage them, blow up one of them, but the other heads back towards the planet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it disables a freighter that's evacuating these Kardashians from the colony.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then suddenly Eddington appears and says, to Cisco, well, sco, you've got a choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can chase me, keep trying to get me, or you can save the Kardashians on that freighter because they are falling back to the planet and they're all gonna die.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco reluctantly chooses to help the Kardashians on the freighter and Eddington escapes again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think the reluctant was more him, the anger that he has duped him once again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Once again, he was more prepared.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think to was more prepared than Cisco, he hadn't played the three moves in on the chess game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He played two moves in, not three,
[SPEAKER_02]: Edington's a bit cocky though, because he does call him Javier in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, which is kind of like a dig and Cisco doesn't quite understand it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's going to drive Cisco.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said he read the novel, so he does get it then, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but like, why is it salt?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a nice diddy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did he say Javarian?
[SPEAKER_02]: Remind Cisco that you sent me that book.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we go to the mess hall.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco's reading it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he's like, this has got to be a clue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's reading the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dax joins him in there, Cisco's trying to see what the clues are and I like Dax's comment.
[SPEAKER_02]: She thinks it's very melodramatic.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a literature from this time period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't stand Victor Hugo is what she says.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that I have an unpopular opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other people think it's a classic?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't stand it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Cisco realizes that it's not a book about Javare.
[SPEAKER_02]: He keeps calling me Javare.
[SPEAKER_02]: He goes to the book about Daljohn.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Eddington thinks he's Valjohn, this noble hero, that he's a Robin Hood who makes noble sacrifices.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco decides, I need to play the villain.
[SPEAKER_02]: If he thinks he's the hero, then I will play the villain, not the policeman Javare.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved being in that scene with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, like great Dax and Cisco scenes, a lot of them in this episode, you're there a lot in his story.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which we did that stuff more.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like that we've, at this point, just a comment about the defiant.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got the engine room, we've seen the mess hall now, we've seen the bridge is kind of cool quarters.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really starting any quarters, yeah, and some of the hallways, like, I think the defiant was such a smart move for your show, bringing that chip on, and every year they invested
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm sure you see more of it, right, that's our shift.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that would have been a great spin off to have the device to find, yeah, and take a few actors from deep space and then add new actors to go with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they learned, so I'm going to talk about Starfleet Academy real quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've only seen the first episode, but as I watched the first episode, when Holly Hunter's character gathers all these students to take them to Samford's Cisco to the school, they talk about this ship, that it's a training ship, and they have a ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the name of it is on Starfleet Academy, but
[SPEAKER_02]: As I'm watching that episode, I'm like, the pilot episode, I was like, I think they learned a lesson from Deespace.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, Starfleet Academy is like, the space like DS9, they need a ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're setting it up from the beginning that they're going to have a training ship, and you're going to be in school, but you're also going to be out on the ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they learned that from DS9.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the USS Athena, the USS Athena, which was very cool, the wings.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Great name.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I've got to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to watch it, Teraphair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to.
[SPEAKER_02]: They learn that lesson from DS9, the DS9, once they get to find it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, honestly, when you look at the state, how did we not have a ship to begin with?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's stuck in space.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, holy cow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a game changer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you do dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you need a ship.
[SPEAKER_03]: You do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll speak in the ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go into the ship's bridge.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go into the Define's bridge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco tells Warf prepare quantum torpedoes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, wait, what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh-oh.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is not, this is so horrible, because if you detonate a quantum torpedo over a planet, well, now you can't live there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is what he's going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he's going to take out a Machi colony and it's horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are, this is something that is not,
[SPEAKER_00]: Starfleet at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the monkey were starfleet.
[SPEAKER_02]: These are kind of like your cousins, like these are your friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are your, these are other human beings, most of them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, this is bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it a way to attack a colony without obliterating the planet?
[SPEAKER_03]: He makes it uninhabitable right and they have nowhere else to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's becoming the bad guy because he said in the previous scene that the best melodromas in the best melodromas villains create a situation where the hero is forced to sacrifice himself for the people.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's his plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: He said it at the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be the villain.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to force him to sacrifice himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: in one grand jostre.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this this aha moment of him turning in the villain is because of the book that was been dover.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if that darn book, everything would have been fine if he didn't call me the cover of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if he goes wrapped up in it, he didn't take any time to consider it or think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's reacting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's not responding.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also when he's, you know, arming these quantum torpedoes and things, the crew on the defiant, they're not aware of this strategy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're looking at him like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I like warf having the hesitation because he's like, this isn't right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even warf knows this is not right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, to remember when he went through the crazy thing with the, the freighter that he didn't see when he was attacking, I don't remember who it was, it was at the Klingons and then there was a freighter of civilians, it accidentally got hit, but he, if you waited, he would have missed.
[SPEAKER_03]: What he was intentioned, but they did that on purpose to trick Warf, so this is very similar to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what Eddington did do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Warf may even have a little bit of flashback PTSD over that whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and now, dealing with this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the connection I was trying to.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also it's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, Eddington's goating him the entire time to do something drastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: because he knows Cisco plays by the rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's got his nuts in a sling like he didn't expect us to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I do, there's nothing you can do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Cisco's like, mm-hmm, yeah, he didn't let go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said did not think that Cisco would flip like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't well Cisco orders the crew to prepare these quantum torpedoes a little bit later They're preparing to launch.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've gotten to Solosis 3 and the Machi they sent a message to the Machi you should leave We're gonna shoot these torpedoes
[SPEAKER_02]: and they aren't evacuating and Hollowetting to appears and he doesn't believe he's going to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Cisco's bluffing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco launches the two torpedoes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a very cool shot where he's see it sort of spreading out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a purple balloon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Eddington says, you know, you've you've betrayed your honor.
[SPEAKER_02]: He starts you can see Eddington Eddington start to snap here.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, oh, I did not expect this at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He talks about his honor and Cisco says, well, you've already betrayed your honor and Cisco prepares to fire more quantum torpedoes at another settlement on track in six.
[SPEAKER_02]: and Eddington gets very emotional about this and about the people are innocent, and he says, please call it off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco's ready to fire and Eddington offers to give up his weapons, these chemicals he's been using.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco says, nope, that's not enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Eddington says, kind of puts his arms out.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, take me, take me, that's what you wanted.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like an offering.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was a nice low angle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco has won.
[SPEAKER_02]: and we have a captain's log supplemental resettlement efforts in the DMZE or underway Kardashian Machi colonists were forced who were forced to abandon their homes will make new lives for themselves and planets on the planets their counterparts evacuated.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the balance in the region will be restored, though the situation remains far from stable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Cisco's gamble paid off in the airlock.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see auto-weighting for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco comes out with decks, adding to and comes out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a problem with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: If he's like the Hannibal Lecter, the evil guy, why is he just walking around?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is he in shackles or something?
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't wish they had arms.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were no restraints on him.
[SPEAKER_00]: No restraints on him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two security guys walking behind him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have, no, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have had something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: It should have looked futuristic to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it should have been like futuristic shackles that his heart went out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's laser shackles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something, okay, something.
[SPEAKER_03]: There.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have enjoyed a blue light around them.
[SPEAKER_03]: A nice blue light.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if he breaks it, his hands come off.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we get me to sit still.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine if you struggle against these handcuffs basically your hands are going to be Yeah, you're going to take your hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went all Viking on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked the very end when, basically, Dex asks Cisco that she says she's curious about the plan to poison the mochi planets.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't clear it with Starfleet first, did you?
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, and Cisco kind of...
[SPEAKER_02]: Coise says, you know, I knew I'd forgotten to do something.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she likes it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Had access.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I like it when the bad guy wins.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was a nice little banter there at the end about good guys, bad guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know what the writers were trying to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to show the banter between friends that have known each other for a very, very long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still glorifying doing the long thing in a way, in which I kind of, that bothered me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is a little, it's, well, it's anti-staff, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I've bought in hook line and sinker in just our fleet and, you know, the Federation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when I saw that, when I watched that scene, that bothered me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It did to be perfectly honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: It bothered me on the heels of the lesson that was taught for the darkness and the light.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just teach that lesson.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you show this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that was my last episode with you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you had Armin in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's only, there's only one episode to space between the last lesson of murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they should have known about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that Star Trek is really good at showing how complicated
[SPEAKER_02]: on the light side and sometimes the lesson is you got to go to the dark side to solve this problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're right, it demonstrates that, but if you're holding hard to starfleet, you would imagine he'd be court-martialed and be gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that there's a right way to do things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Cisco definitely broke the rules here.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't even supposed to be out in the defiant.
[SPEAKER_02]: They told him, say, way, leave it alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the admiral did tell him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just the other captain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, on the point that we were just discussing, to me, the lesson is sometimes you have to be the bad guy to be the good guy, and I think Cisco sort of learned that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you're fighting a really bad guy who's really smart, like Eddington, and you keep losing doing things the good guy way, you may have to be worse than that bad guy to get them to give up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, that's my lesson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, tiffer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is so more spot on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wrote, you know, to trust someone, you truly have to get to know them and going back to the uniform, you can't assume they're on the same page just because you wear the same uniform, you're in the same club, and you don't each other a certain amount of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just not going to know somebody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess,
[SPEAKER_03]: It could betray you at any time, and it only hurts because you really like them or love them or care about them and have a fantasy of who they might be.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when it gets destroyed, like somebody like Eddington, it's almost impossible to believe.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know, what's the moral of the story?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're never going to know somebody completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't judge a book by its cover.
[SPEAKER_03]: You cannot judge a book by its cover.
[SPEAKER_03]: One hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: My lessons slash moral slash theme of this episode is take everything in moderation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't take anything personally and stop obsessing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to read our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of the episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is submitted by Martin DePlace.
[SPEAKER_03]: people justify extreme actions when they believe their causes righteous.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's true on both sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the end of our episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you everyone for tuning into our recap and discussion of for the uniform.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which by the way, I did not mention this.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a sequel to the episode for the cause season four with that intended because initially I thought what a silly name for this episode for the uniform, but they're trying to play on the fact that it's a sequel to four of the cause.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, the prior season, from the prior season, season four exactly where Eddington was in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there should have been a little recap before this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they really should have been all right everyone for all of our patreon patrons Please stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will see you next time