[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Cinema Hounds tour of the 2026 Oscars, one category or a cluster of categories at a time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I recommend starting with my in-day vids reactions to the nominees, that includes our preview of the 10 Best Picture nominees and a look at the surprises of the season going in.
[SPEAKER_01]: the biggest races and other statistics, we have also since released dedicated episodes to the short-scategories to production design costumes, makeup, and hair, and to international film, not to mention the bonus episodes about the indie spirit awards and the BAFTAs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, we're diving into the documentary category.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have back again for the second year in a row, Docs and TV editor Rebecca June Lane to break it all down with me, and then stick around until the end of the episode for a preview of what's coming up next in this series.
[SPEAKER_01]: just one important note before we dive in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apologies in advance for the quality of the microphones, there was a technical issue in the recording and I'm afraid it recorded through computers rather than microphones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you will notice a drastic dip in quality, especially on my end of the conversation, which I've done my best to produce around, but just to let you know upfront.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had the time to rerecord my entire side of the conversation but I don't and to be honest it would be and thus come across as inauthentic then as well whereas we had a really lovely conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for your understanding there that we're sticking with the original audio because this was a great talk about a crop of documentaries that is serious but also fun in surprising ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus, we share a bunch more recommendations from this year, including a final section devoted to fund documentaries at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let's jump right into it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And welcome back, Rebecca June Lane, you were talking about the documentaries with me last year for this very series, so go ahead to have your back again this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for having me.
[SPEAKER_01]: and you've done a lot of work yourself as a documentary editor so you have a unique insight into this form of filmmaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to link to your IMDB in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If anyone wants to check out some of your work, but how is your death race going?
[SPEAKER_03]: My death race is going well.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say that this is the
[SPEAKER_03]: Confluence of two of my favorite things in the world which are the death race and the Olympics.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have fallen behind a bit on my death racing as I've enjoyed the international sport, but yeah, it's it's been a fun year.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like a smaller year for the Oscar is not maybe a couple shorter list than maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, only 50.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but yeah, I've enjoyed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pretty much everything I've seen so far there hasn't been a lot of stinkers for me personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's a strong year and I think it's a pretty strong year for Docs, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just telling you that I've been bingeing the last few weeks as many Docs as I like put them off all year and then I'm like put them all in my eye holes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes um, sometimes you gotta take a deep breath before you throw one on and remember it's in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, some some good variety is some interesting subject matter for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I tried to get the tough ones out of the way first so that I could end on some fun ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are going to, after we talk about the nominees here, we'll shout out some other recommendations and we're going to end on some fun recommendations too because they certainly, as you would expect in the climate, as it is, it's appropriate that the ones that are nominated are confrontational.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to put it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get way to put it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we're going to be talking about the best documentary feature category, which has existed since 1941 and awarded every year except for 1946.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't look into why, but I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did discuss the documentary shorts in a separate episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find that in the show notes, just I discussed the three shorts categories together, but I will be checking in about your thoughts for back at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: These five docs this year, they're all single category nominees.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that happens a lot with the documentaries, but not always.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually I give a spoiler warning at this point, but I don't know whether that necessarily applies here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess if we think of anything that might be spoilery, we'll watch out, but I'm pretty sure you go into each of these knowing where it's going.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just about how it gets there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'd say that maybe
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of final outcomes of a couple of these, you might not exactly know unless you're going into it, but I don't think that's really what it's about, you know, right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: That tension of what's gonna happen isn't the core of what makes them special.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your overall thoughts on the nominees this year?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that they're interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: seeing a couple other things that weren't nominated, they're testing to be some themes, interestingly running through this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then also some constants from year to year, we're still dealing with war, we're still dealing with the tendrils and tentacles and failures of the American policing system and such, there's a lot of constants.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's also a lot of universality that I liked in some of the nominees when we got international, obviously, I'm in the States, and the ceremonies held in the States.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm always thankful for when we get kind of these detailed documentary perspectives from outside the States.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was happy to see some of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, some inspiration.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lots of normal people trying to live their lives, which is compelling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, in various parts of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's start with, well, just to shout out the five nominees, are come see me in the good light, cutting through rocks, Mr. Nobody against Putin, the perfect neighbor, and the Alabama solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's start with come see me in the good light, which is arguably one of the lighter ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um...
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to set it up, it is directed by Ryan White, who it is his first nomination, it's from the US, and it's in English, and the nominees here are Ryan White, the director, but also producers Jessica Hargrave, take no taro, let me might know, and step willing, and it's about
[SPEAKER_01]: in an intimate and joyful story of love in the face of loss, celebrated poets, Andrea Gibson, and Megan Valley find strength and unexpected hilarity in what might be their final year together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is about Andrea.
[SPEAKER_01]: finds out they have cancer, and it's about dealing with that as a couple, as artists, as human beings, and as you can imagine, you might want to bring some tissues.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so creepy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this one is especially for poets.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just going to read one of the excerpts from one of their poems.
[SPEAKER_01]: For those of you who are not familiar, it's called Good Light, which you can see is obviously where they're pulling the reference and the title from.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just a small excerpt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come see me in the Good Light.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come tell me what you tell the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come trouble me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come lightning strike.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come read out loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come wiser than the past, come make me make you proud, come hope too much, come with all your ghosts, come clown around when the timings bad, come promise me the world, come trust me to do my best even when I don't, come ask me to give you everything I have, come knowing I'll give you my word, that if you fall in the forest when there's no
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just part of the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are you, were you a fan of their poetry?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts overall, and this has a film also?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was not aware of Andrew Gibson before this film.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the great things I love about documentary is intimately learning about something that you didn't know existed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And knowing about it in a very visceral way,
[SPEAKER_03]: What a tragedy, though, to learn about someone as they're in the process of transitioning on from this world.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always a sucker for a, like a self-composed, funeral dursh, the David Bowie Blackstar, the, I know that I'm on my way out.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's, let's put a little something out there that I can have some control over before I'm gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought Ryan White did a really good job presenting a piece of poetry that rhymed so much with what Andrea Gibson was putting out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, you know, was trying to take notes as a editor as a documentary, but then I just ended up writing down lines of poetry over and over again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it is so gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the film, like I said, rhymed a lot with the kind of everyday, seeking everyday beauty.
[SPEAKER_03]: They talk a lot in the film about how Andre's doesn't use a lot of big words as an innovative vocabulary.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I felt that the edit itself was restrained in that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was very pretty.
[SPEAKER_03]: The good light was everywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, it was a beautifully filmed film.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think whenever there were portions of their poetry that was written, I think those were my favorite sections, the editor, I wrote down the name, Brittany Shavez, would edit these kind of more quicker pasties, little sections to kind of mirror the poetry that Andrea was reading.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm about those to be incredibly moving, even if it took me, I'm not like a spoken word poetry person.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was, you know, really disarming to see it presented this way, so I couldn't really deny the impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not only the words, but of Andrea's performance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the time the poetry well because it is sort of escalates with poetry and begins with poetry and then it escalates with poetry and that is, as you say, that's sort of the cadence of the film as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I think,
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people are going to obviously cry from this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think how much you connect with it on a deeper level is just going to come down to how much you vibe with the two people at its center and with the art that's being expressed if you want to check it out for yourself you can watch it on Apple TV it's an hour and 44 minutes long and I'll say
[SPEAKER_01]: It's done well in previous awards.
[SPEAKER_01]: It won its Sundance Festival favorite.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one nine precursors overall with two honor, you know, two extra honors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's missed six times, which means it's been nominated quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's two pending nominations still the Oscars and the satellite awards and we before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's definitely a big contender.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as far as whether or not it resonates with you, I'll say there's another one with a similar theme that we got a chance to watch that's brand new and it hasn't been as widely available yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that might even be eligible for next year to be honest, because it's just opening in cinemas now in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called Andre is an idiot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was nominated for the Spirit's Emerging Filmmaker Trueer than Fiction Award.
[SPEAKER_01]: It did not win, but it was my favorite in that category to be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is about a different type of artist who he worked in advertising, but he's just a writer, creative guy, and he finds out that he has calling cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is about a similar thing where he's confronting what he's going through his treatment and impending possible death.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's doing it in ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't write poetry, but he's like learning a death yell.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd say he lives his life in a very poetic manner.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy too.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole story about I don't want to spoil it, but how he and his wife brought together his wild and fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: So unique, so interesting, and you mentioned his wife, and I think that's another thing that both these films do well is talk about caregivers, showcase the journey of caregiving and the struggles.
[SPEAKER_03]: and two incredible people profile almost, you know, co-protagonists in these journeys.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're definitely given respect in understanding.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in terms of form, which is one of the things I look at, it was interesting to see the differences in the two films.
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, Andre comes from like 90s commercial backgrounds, so you had a lot of
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of throw back to that, you had stop animation, you had lots of kind of things you would see on like late night MTV around 2000, like thrown in there to kind of express his personality as opposed to these kinds of poor, gorgeous, long sweeping, beautifully shot, epic shots.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that was an interesting contrast, like really, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: which, you know, once you get to the end, serves as a brutal counterpoint for how... Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bear, I mean, his experience is shown at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a fun watch, but also a tough watch, I'd say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, yeah, he wants to make you laugh until the end, but it's tough at some point to watch this and you see him wanting to make people around him happy, but it's hard at his for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we should say this one is also made by, I guess he's his best friend, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's also, you know, in addition to his wife is interviewed in his part of the documentary and their children, but it's sort of a romance between him and his best friend in the way too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that's such an interesting dynamic and the filmmaker and this person trying to leave this last message.
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't reference him a few times.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a moment he was kind of playing a role and getting this last show together.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think there was a line in Cozemy in the good light where Andrew was talking about basketball and how players keep shooting and until they end on a make in this idea of ending on a make and ending on a good note, ending on doing something.
[SPEAKER_03]: positive or at least feeling completed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like Andre was really searching for that make in the process of making that film with this people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting process to witness.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, into the film is also dedicated to reminding people that you should get your goal in check.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, he's an advertising guy, so it's a funny sequence there where it's just every time you look at the butt of an orange or the heck forget all the different things they use.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just remember your asshole, get it checked.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that, and I love the impact side of that, of being like, let's make this mean something outside of just me being being in it yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really loved Andres and I think in the beginning of March, it's opening in the US and theaters, so I definitely recommend checking it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will make you laugh, and it will make you cry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm really grateful for these meditations, a lot of millennials and people around that age are dying younger and younger from cancer and stuff like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think the impact, the awareness that this is bringing is really positive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but on the other side of the age spectrum, while we're speaking of artists facing the mortality, I just want to quickly mention another documentary, Viva Verdi, it's not a nominee here, but it is a nominee in the original song category, surprisingly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get a chance to watch that one?
[SPEAKER_03]: I have not watched that one, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: What we will be talking about it more in the music episode, Mark did get a chance to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's basically, it's about a very, completely composer.
[SPEAKER_01]: His last great act for it, you know, as you said, how did you put it ending on a make?
[SPEAKER_03]: Ending on a make is how, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you put it, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, he, his act of doing that was to set up this home for elderly musicians to open as soon as he died and basically, yeah, musicians in Italy and beyond, they do have from all over the world, move into
[SPEAKER_01]: this place where they still practice their music, but they also students, young students move in as well so that they can teach the young students, which also of course is good for them, for their mental and emotional well-being.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's a really lovely documentary where they end up interviewing a number of the residents and so you get all these different
[SPEAKER_01]: This patchwork of different stories like it just struck me the one woman she came from Oh, I'm forgetting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was Tokyo and she was saying the first time she went over to Italy It took a month by boat and now it just takes 10 hours by plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's incredible What wow people who have lived a while have lived there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's a lovely more uplifting one than you would Expects for the subject matter
[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_03]: The song and score categories, I grew them together on my thing, have a couple of documentaries.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a documentary category this year as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I noticed that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, well let's move on to, so again, come see me in the good light, you can watch it on Apple, Andre's an idiot out in theaters, we've a variety in stream it on jolt.film, I think it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, not many number two, cutting through rocks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Directed by Bahamad Dresa, Ini, and Sarah Kaki, a first nomination for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the producing countries are around Batara, Chile, Canada, the Netherlands, and Germany, and the languages spoken are Azerbaijani, Turkish, Persian, and English.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the nominees are the two.
[SPEAKER_01]: directors.
[SPEAKER_01]: What it's about is thirty seven-year-old Sarah Shavarady, a motorcycle riding land-owning, former midwife turned fierce citizen advocate and recent divorce say just won a landslide local election in her remote Iranian village and everyone has an opinion about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what did you think of cutting through rocks?
[SPEAKER_03]: I love going into these because I don't
[SPEAKER_03]: I tend to not even read log lines.
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of threw them on and throw myself in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, as like, okay, this one's called cutting through rocks.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we immediately see this woman cutting through rocks.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, here we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, here we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Geology.
[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, this is also going to be a metaphor.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yes, going into it, I thought the struggle was going to be getting elected and it's very much not what the heart of the film is about because she's a rock star in her neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's delivered 400 children in her neighborhood and everyone sees her for who she is uniquely and respects her for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: and the tension arises when she maybe starts to push for other people to be themselves or to exist outside of the binary that exists and you know I this film speaks a lot to me in terms of its form it's similar to some stuff I've worked on before specifically an unreleased documentary
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's not overproduced.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not doing a lot of beautiful setups.
[SPEAKER_03]: Though there are a few very beautiful setups, you know, we're not doing a lot of overwhelming music.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's there's some really beautiful music.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's underproduced in a good way, but at the same time, I would love to see dates on all the footage.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would love to see exactly when everything took place.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I begin into the mind of the editor who was trying to build this narrative.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you do fall in love with this woman, and then you see why she might wrangle some people, and then you question how much effect an impact she might have and it kind of gets to a place where you could kind of walk away, feeling complete.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I just think they did a really good job.
[SPEAKER_03]: taking what they had and making that into a full story.
[SPEAKER_03]: Coming back to this image of her and her father on this motorcycle, this photograph from the past, replicating the spirit of that photograph and some sequences where she's teaching girls how to ride the motorcycles I thought was so produced but in a contained way that didn't feel like it felt authentic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because, you know, as you say, it's the election is something that happens early and that's not really necessarily what it's about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's a look at, you know, it's one thing to get elected.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, being able to keep that position because as soon as you are in power, people are going to start blaming things on you, especially if you are unconventional and breaking norms as a woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is, you know, all I knew going in, I was like, oh, it's going to, it's a feminist Iranian film.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was kind of bracing myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot more light and fun than I expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, and it was lovely to see, she's such a clear inspiration to the young women around her, like, just the way that they would look at her, I wrote down, do something with your life that makes people look at you, the way the young women in her community look at Sarah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's just a rock star to them, and I understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is.
[SPEAKER_03]: She is such a rock star.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved when
[SPEAKER_03]: They had a little pow out at some point in the girls while we're wearing their like, I'm gonna be something someday outfit.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they had this jacket on and pants.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, I'm gonna go talk to my community idol today and just so lovely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I mean, sitting through a whole film, I kept checking back with my partner being like,
[SPEAKER_03]: So when is something horrible going to happen?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because she was so inspirational and you know, there was a very quotidian, you know, aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, you know, the conversation she was having with the girls about choosing their own futures.
[SPEAKER_03]: That could be, that's a relevant conversation in my country right now, still like that could happen in a million different places.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that was really interesting to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get a chance to see Prime Minister yet that weren't about, uh, just into a girl?
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I recommend that when I am a fan of her politically, you know, I was following her in office and I just I noticed that there are similar themes here, you know, it could because it's another one that starts with her being elected as Prime Minister and facing, you know, obviously there's there's some sexism and things like that, especially because she gets pregnant.
[SPEAKER_01]: the prime ministers are COVID and all that stuff and it's just about okay it's one thing to get power but what about how do you keep it?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you make keep people happy with your performance and how much of an impact can you really leave behind?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think both of these are cutting talking to that same.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how do you not like change you and get to you and
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the obstacles I think before you get into power are empowering, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're like, okay, well, you're going to try and stop me, but I'm going to keep going.
[SPEAKER_03]: But once you have that power, I feel like there's a bitterness that could crop up there being like, why are I still being taken seriously?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why are people listening me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why am I still?
[SPEAKER_03]: I've jumped through the hoops.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now here I am in all the hoops.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why can't I go to the spin?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that that was really interesting, but like honestly the most the thing I took away from that dog more than anything was just how much respect that woman Yeah, garnered from everyone around her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean for me, too, as a viewer It was so inspiring Yeah, and I think that the filmmaker said a great job capturing access is another thing I talk about a lot and
[SPEAKER_03]: whatever trust the filmmakers had to get into these courtrooms to hear some of these conversations with the judges like they got some good access into a lot of these spaces that I thought was incredibly impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this one is done well also in precursors, but it's been nominated fewer times, but it's one out of the seven nominations I've found, it's one six of them, including the Sundance Grand jury prize, the World Documentary Competition, the International Documentary Festival of Amsterdam on known as Idfa, the NPO doc.
[SPEAKER_01]: audience award so it's yeah it definitely people are vibing with this it's just gotten less attention overall but now it is nominated for an Oscar so we shall see I won't count it out if you want to see it yourself most people have seen it now have been able to catch it's been up for periodic online screenings so you might want to sign up for that but apparently it is going to
[SPEAKER_01]: So watch out for it, there are elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an hour and 35 minutes long.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a easy, like, watch, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for a movie about feminism and the neuron, it's actually a very pleasant watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that a lot of these have, you know, that's maybe why they've gotten nominated.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of these have heavy topics, topics that they present in a more pleasant, a more palatable way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not a way that feels like cheaper or superficial, but just...
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a little fun with four math while we're talking about the other world, which brings us to Mr. Nobody against Putin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nominee number three, directed by David Borenstein, it's his first nomination.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is from Denmark, Czech Republic, and Germany, Russia, it's not on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Language is spoken though, Russian and English.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the nominees are David Borenstein, Pablo Talunkin, who is the central figure who got all this footage we're going to talk about and then producers, Haley Faber, and I'm going to do my best to this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll Shabbette Carrascova.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's about, as Russia launches its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, primary schools across Russia's hinterlands are transformed into recruitment stages for the war, facing the ethical dilemma of working in a system defined by propaganda and violence, a brave teacher goes undercover to film what's really happening in his own school.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was actually the Denmark's international features submission to the Oscar's this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not shortlisted for that, but it was nominated here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably one of the higher profiles of this bunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the only one that has a significant box office number, one million, no idea what the budget was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one, the BAFTAs, it won the Sundance World and the Cinema Documentary Special Jerry Award.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's lost nothing and now it's up for an Oscar and it's currently available on video on demand and on another shorter one and hour and 30 minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think about Mr. Nobody Against Putin?
[SPEAKER_03]: I have so many thoughts about Mr. Nobody Against Putin.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've had a couple films that discuss
[SPEAKER_03]: This war, from the Ukrainian side, it was very, very interesting and great to get in on the other side and see kind of this tucked away part of Russia, such a huge country, similar to my country very large, and you could find these pockets that are very interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the form was immediately
[SPEAKER_03]: Humor and whimsy right off the bat that you might not be expecting if you did read the law of line.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're having fun with the titles on screen titles.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our hand ring come up in a kind of scrap booky way.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a whole YouTube clip section about how the town they live on is one of the most polluted towns in the world, which is filled with laughter.
[SPEAKER_03]: that just the general attitude of I was actually surprised he's listening as a co-director.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was actually surprised to see someone's name come up that wasn't his at first because it felt like with his narration and his footage that it felt like something that he had ultimately put together.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just kind of like tell the whole framing was sort of like
[SPEAKER_03]: that mean where it starts in media res and all of a sudden it's like, I bet you're wondering how I got myself in this situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, you smuggling footage out of Russia and that's the situation, but it's entered into with that kind of more humorous form.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think, you know, obviously the huge
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, Booey, this film has for it is the access, which is one of the things that I look for in terms of choosing a best documentary.
[SPEAKER_03]: He recognized that he was in a position to record and archive something that was happening around him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he actually, I guess, had filmmakers and reporters from the outside affirm that for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was ready to walk away.
[SPEAKER_03]: But having that access of somebody on the inside, filming all of that, you know, it's deeply unsettling, and it just feels very, very vital, like a historical record, but I think that interesting kind of decision there is to not just keep it a historical record, not just kind of this ominous,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, collection of shots taken over time to show this creeping nationalism that's really terrifying, but it was a memoir of this man in this circumstance, who just wants to be a teacher and wants to offer, you know, a sense of belonging that he didn't really ever super feel in this space and so kind of like comes see me in the good light.
[SPEAKER_03]: I found myself being most moved by the sections where it was kind of these quicker edits of footage of the students just being students, of kids just being kids, teen just being teens, they could literally be from anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I feel like most, if you found your crew in high school, you know what that room was that he had, where his kids were coming, everyone knows what finding that space is like and to contrast that with, you know, these spaces
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, a safe space, but instead these classrooms where they were literally reading propaganda to the children and gosh, the fact that he had the balls to be like, you know, whatever, everything that Miss Axe is about to tell you, she's being forced to tell you.
[SPEAKER_03]: As he said on the camera, it's just like so impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the kids were like, oh, the one of the kids was like, blink twice if this is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she blink twice.
[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that meant to me just from an educational level, like I was kind of shocked at how aware the kid seemed that this was all bullshit and wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the seems too, that seems to also devolve a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the disturbing thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you see them start to,
[SPEAKER_01]: be pressured to buy more into it and that was a sad thing too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we should take his videographer and then he was a school videographer and that's why it was like normal for him to be recording everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he, yeah so he had this room where people could hang out but he openly hung like a flag and supportive democracy and
[SPEAKER_01]: you just see over time that's no longer a safe space for kids just because of the outside pressures that if they are and I love to his little acts of rebellion throughout, you know, because it's someone on the ground and like what can he do?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, I'm going to change the tape in the windows to the tape that supports you cream, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or I'm going to Blair Lady Gaga.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in that way, I felt like,
[SPEAKER_03]: the parallels between that and cutting through rocks were really interesting was here is someone who the community seems to have embraced for being a little different for not really following the footsteps of the quiet towns people around, you know, we are a little extra.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, the the evillut seeing the kids kind of have to become adults and deal with
[SPEAKER_03]: their potential death at, you know, the hands of a foreign force pulling them away from their small town is, you know, a much darker side to, I guess, being a teacher of kids at that age in that time and, you know, it's, you know, something I've, since the last films,
[SPEAKER_03]: about the people who are pulled off the regular lives to be on the front lines and some of the more creatives in a similar way, you know, these kinds of moments, of course, even more, yeah, of course, even more exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: These kinds of situations find everybody, you know, where they're at, you're not, you don't find yourself one day magically on the front line.
[SPEAKER_03]: You find yourself in a time of war in your own home, doing your job, and it creeps in.
[SPEAKER_03]: about a lot here in the states of how, you know, if the environment around you, especially in a school, will start to turn towards authoritarianism, you know, what is every individual capable of, and what are they called to, especially in an educational setting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I found it very inspiring.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that, like I said, the access is really what makes it shine for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get a chance to watch my undesirable friends part one last year of Moscow yet?
[SPEAKER_03]: I have not.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the four hour one, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Five and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is basically, it's basically a five part mini series, there's even like,
[SPEAKER_01]: many credits in between the each chapter so all right but they've jammed it together and they're calling it a movie and it was I got to see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was shortlisted for the Oscars wasn't nominated but it was an indie spirit's nominee so I talked about it more in that episode and that's how I got to see it in the indie spirit screening room because it's not widely available yet but it is
[SPEAKER_01]: definitely an ideal companion face with Mr. Nobody against Putin because my undesirable friends and again it's part one because it's going to be a part two coming out called exile spoilers for the first part of that title.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my undesirable friend is about the last operating oppositional news in Russia and how you if follows it starts with them being declared
[SPEAKER_01]: It was at four in agents, you know, they're, they obviously, if they are anti-putin, they're obviously being paid by people for audits basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: They, he starts declaring everyone four in agents until some start getting arrested and then eventually when the war with Ukraine starts, they are either rounded up or chased out of the country more or less.
[SPEAKER_01]: spoilers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, but no, that's another one that has great access because it's actually the people who were recording the news and it's about their investigations, about what's quite happening to journalists, you know, directly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's really, and so they have a much more bird's eye view of things also, just because of their jobs, their roles.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very
[SPEAKER_01]: have more of an all-in-the-ground view from, you know, and obviously my undesirable friends there on Moscow, Mr. Nobody against Putin is in a small town, so it's, but you see them going through the same events, the same period of time from two different perspectives.
[SPEAKER_03]: That sounds fascinating.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will absolutely find that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, the OJ's doc was nine hours, and it meant nine more.
[SPEAKER_03]: So time to get the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I mean, I definitely recommend checking it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just also, it's going to look very familiar to a lot of people and a lot of places in the world right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's sort of like a checklist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, have we passed this point yet?
[SPEAKER_03]: Isn't that so helpful?
[SPEAKER_03]: I find it helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I imagine others might find it depressing, or, but I think the commonalities in our struggles is a tool, that is just seeing what other people have done, the ways other people have dealt with these circumstances, is
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a valuable information and I'm so thankful that people who are in Russia are risking themselves and their lives and their safety to share their knowledge with the rest of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it should say there was a major one this year from the Ukrainian side 2,000 meters to Andreevka that was from it's basically a follow up to 20 days in my report, which one was it two years ago, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is about just following a, you know, boots on the ground mission in Ukraine to try to reclaim a strategic village.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just very, yeah, confronting you are actually in the battle with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, yeah, minor spoiler of one point, you know, they capture a Russian soldier, they're yelling, and why are you doing this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you here?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I don't know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that one, yeah, was also shortlisted for the Oscars, not nominated, but it was a bastard nominee.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I talked about a little bit in that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just to shout out that the Israel Palestine War did not show up in the nominees here, although it was a major contender in the international film category this year, so Hector and I did talk about that, those movies there as well, and also there is the short documentary nominee, children no more were and are gone, so Brandon and I did talk about that in that episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say there's two more from the documentary features,
[SPEAKER_01]: I quite liked them both, coexistence, my ass, and holding leat.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are both filmed by Israelis, but Israelis with very nuanced perspectives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so both of these documentaries are from people who
[SPEAKER_01]: are very, you know, have very specific reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say coexistence, my asses, another one that takes a lot of humor in it until it's not funny anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, holding Leon is very much more dramatic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from the perspective of the father of one of the
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they both come from a place of compassion and neither of them offer any easy answers, just a hard look at the complexities of everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just think they're really great watches both of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I find that the legacy really of Israeli documentaries and Israeli Palestinian co-productions about the tensions and the genocide and the problems to be again inspiring.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a long history of it and every time there's a new entry that
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always so thankful so yeah yeah so I'll say co-existence by us is easier watch because she's a comedian yes I will just say one final thing about Mr. Putin two things I said access impact was also very literally stated in the film
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is going to have impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: What you're doing right now is going to have impacted.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was sweaty for me as I have my little section.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, oh, this is a movie that emphasizes impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: It checks the mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also loved something that the teacher, I forgot to write down as name.
[SPEAKER_03]: My apologies.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said that love for your country means saying we have a problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think in,
[SPEAKER_03]: a lot of these things we've talked about so far that that really hit home to me and I think it's going to hit home as we talk about things coming up as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I see that as a unifying theme maybe to some documentaries is filmmakers with a deep love of their country and knowing the things are wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that brings us into the last two or very much the call is coming from inside the house.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about first the perfect neighbor directed by Gita Gambier.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is her first and second nomination more on that in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a U.S. documentary, it is an English, the nominees are Gita Gambier, Alyssa Payne, Nikon Konto and Sam B.S.B.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's about police body cam footage reveals how a long running neighborhood
[SPEAKER_01]: dispute, turn fatal in this documentary about fear, prejudice, and standard ground loss.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other nomination is for one of the nominated documentary shorts, The Devil is busy, which is about a day in the life of a woman who is doing security at a clinic that performs abortions in the South, which was also very good, I'd say that's one of my
[SPEAKER_01]: What do your thoughts on the perfect neighbor?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can speak about devil as busy also feeling.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw, I watched this movie as soon as it dropped on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_03]: For a few reasons, the subject matter interests me a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was curious that it was on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that it was an interesting pickup for Netflix.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I also feared that if it was as good as I heard it was, that it would die and drown on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's next to a bunch of documentaries that I think are thrown together in a similar genre
[SPEAKER_03]: as much intent behind them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was pleasantly surprised that a lot of people watched it and a lot of people got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember after I watched it, ready to the letter box to see if people had viewed it the same way I had, which is an indictment of our first responding services rather than just being like, oh, wow, this is really interesting that it's exclusively police cam footage.
[SPEAKER_03]: but kind of making that next leap of being like, wow, they were there, they were there a lot, they saw it a lot, they were constantly there, they know about this, how was this not in any way rectified?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that to me was gratifying because there's so much restraint in that film.
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of the times when you're doing stuff through crime or stories like this, there's a lot of tension to add a lot of talking heads and context and interpretation, and not really giving the viewer enough credit to just process what they're seeing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think the filmmaker and the editor did such a great job restraining themselves
[SPEAKER_03]: piece of filmmaking that wouldn't get lost with all these other true crime talking heads.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, then the not, I mean, obviously access.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another one for this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had all this body camera footage and then using that access as the form as the whole structural form of the film, I thought was really smart.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you had a couple things at the
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess there's a spoiler there, but you have a code in the takes place after the events that's not body camera footage, but for the most part it just takes, and then a couple transitional shots of B-roll and such and a few voiceovers as well, but for the most part you're living in this body cam footage, and yeah, I think there's
[SPEAKER_03]: I like to think of these stories when you do tackle them as conversation starters, not the end, all be all analysis of what might have taken place, and I think this was also successful there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I imagine a lot of people finish the film turned to the person they were washing it with and asked them questions, which I think is a success.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was very pleased by it.
[SPEAKER_03]: please being a strange word for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a prison in police abolitionist freak.
[SPEAKER_03]: So to be, I was pleased.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is, yeah, this is, it's on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's another one that's on the shorter side, only in our 37 minutes long, and it's,
[SPEAKER_01]: basically it plays like prestige, true crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it has definitely been finding an audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of, I know there were people who were almost skeptical, whether it would end up being nominated just because they're like, well, is this the kind of documentary that the Oscars normally go for?
[SPEAKER_01]: but this is sort of showing that you can straddle the line between something that's an awards contender and something that will catch the public attention that's consumable, that you're hanging on the screen like, oh my god, what's going to happen next?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I will say just in general having worked in it for over a decade now that the
[SPEAKER_03]: has kind of grown and morphed a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to be incredibly dismissive of it, but the more you do at the more larger questions are starting to come up and people are trying to take more interesting perspectives, filmmaking wise.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I'm glad that something that kind of might have fallen into this kind of regular, every day category of true crime was able to really
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's also this was all five of these launched at Sundance and this one won the directing award for US documentary and the critics choice stock awards and it won the spirit award.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a total of 10 wins so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Six additional nominations it didn't get into pending the Oscars and the producers Guild of America award.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is definitely the
[SPEAKER_01]: and maybe just because it is so accessible.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we're talking through, and normally like, I go into the documentaries and I'm so sorry for the trauma we're about to discuss, but so far, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do still have another one left for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think, and that's another thing about the restraint.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love that it went a directing award, because it's like underdirected.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very composed.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very compared to a lot of the other things in the same genre.
[SPEAKER_03]: in this genre.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm glad to see, you know, I don't think none of these are really the classic talking heads, documentary format.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, um, which can work, but I feel like all of these are experimenting with form, which what we were, uh, was that that was one of your criteria, too?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, form, access,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh gosh, was there a fourth one?
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are three big ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: David, one of the other hosts on the Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is big on, he's big on making metrics to help people evaluate these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he will eat that up and add it to his metrics box.
[UNKNOWN]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I think because, you know, you're telling people's personal stories, you're telling the worst days of their life, the best days of their life, you know, it's hard to judge these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of cruel that we even have to.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I find it easy to kind of think about them in these, in these rubrics that make it a little less offensive that we're changing them at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anything else to say about the perfect neighbor?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, let's see, no, I actually, I took it so long ago, I watched it so long ago, I did take notes, so I didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, for some reason, that is the one that I feel like is the most boiler room just because I think of the nature of watching it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is like the question of like, oh, what's going to, even though you know it ends with a shooting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know how it gets there, or as you say, there's a code that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very watchable, it's likely to win, so it's on Netflix, so if you choose one, that might be the one to go forward, it's easy to watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say if you, if you do go into it, I would ask people once it's finished to ask themselves what they would have wanted to have happened, what they think could have been different
[SPEAKER_01]: right yeah i think yeah that's that's what i'm wanting more of i think from from everything right now is there's a lot of documentaries about look at how things are falling apart but i'm like but how do we fix them where's the talk about how we fix them
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree, there needs to be a lot more of, there's a good podcast called, I think, two million experience, three million experiments.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's along those lines of trying to figure out what can work.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yes, more experiments.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, this brings us to all of me, this is my favorite one, but I think it's also the hardest watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, yeah, we're going to have some good conversation with this, I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called the Alabama solution, directed by Andrew Jerky.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is his second nomination after capturing the Friedman's from 2003.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Charlie Kaufman, it is, er, sorry, Charlotte's Kaufman, and it is her first nomination.
[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie Kaufman, that would have been a much different film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is from the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in English, and the two directors are the nominees.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is about the truth from the inside out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Incarcerated men defy the odds to expose
[SPEAKER_01]: This one was, I mean, so I'll just say it's about, it's said that Alabama prison system, but I don't think it is unique to Alabama per se.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what allowed this to be made is there is, this is something they address at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an overcrowding there, which means there are not enough guards to keep track of the inmates, and so it makes it easier for them to get contraband cell phones.
[SPEAKER_01]: and with their contraband cell phones, they can call reporters, they can call legal help, and they can film what's actually going on in the prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of it is conversations with them directly over video chats and just them filming like, look, look at these, look at these
[SPEAKER_01]: all of the corruption that can't be denied because it's captured video evidence.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I know you are particularly passionate as you just said about Prism Reform and an abolition, um, what did you think of the Alabama solution as a film?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was...
[SPEAKER_03]: fantastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually have worked with Andrew's brother Eugene before on a film many years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: And his brother actually has another great film that I would recommend on the same topic called the House I live in.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a documentary.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not the one I worked on with him.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's also, it's about the war on drugs, but it's a lot about the prison industrial complex
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think this film does a great job of cutting through a lot of the BS that surrounds the conversation about prison reform.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yes, just showing and that's the access right we get these footage we get the cell phone footage that is a unique bit of access.
[SPEAKER_03]: that the filmmakers are able to use.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did write early on about the form and the complications of using the cell phone footage, which is a lot of it's vertical.
[SPEAKER_03]: So how are we going to deal with that?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not super cinematic and, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a little bit of it that felt in terms of the form a little 2000 late for me in terms of the transitions and the music.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like feel like I recognize some cues which is like never a good side in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's just real technical stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that if it was a score
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought other form choices we made to kind of buttress the fact that we're dealing with this kind of limited footage.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we had sketch artwork, which I thought was really interesting to fill in some gaps.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when we brought in kind of these other people, lawyers, CEOs, former CEOs, correction officers to chat, then it kind of helped build out
[SPEAKER_03]: What could have been just this story of these guys in this one prison, which is a problem that I have with a lot of documentaries in this space and some stuff that I've even worked on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I work on a death for a series for half a decade and my my frustration would always be when we focused too specifically down on what was happening in a to a certain person and a certain prison, but I thought this film did a really good job of
[SPEAKER_03]: We had a little bit of like history involved and then we went out to the statewide problems.
[SPEAKER_03]: We went out to the DOJ.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was not constrained to just, oh, this is one problem that's happening in one place.
[SPEAKER_03]: It did give context, broader context for how we got here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was not expecting it to be as violent as it was in terms of what they showed.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot of blood.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just as a trigger warning.
[SPEAKER_03]: it was a very like a one of the bloodiest document or is that doesn't take place in a war zone that I think I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it begs the question, how do you define a war zone?
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: We could talk a little bit about that, the other short class rebel war.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so this was not nominated, but it was on the short list.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is about, it's a whole lot less bloody.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about a classroom set up that brings together students from the community and incarcerated men to learn together about the system of incarceration.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does also question abolition directly, too, from both perspectives.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did you think of that one?
[SPEAKER_03]: I wrote down the name of a teacher who runs the class being like, I got to reach out to her and get that syllabus.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was a quote she said at the beginning that was like, I forget who she attributed it to.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, why do prisons resemble barracks, resemble classrooms, resemble hospitals, resemble prisons.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I think along those same lines, you know, going back to Alabama solution.
[SPEAKER_03]: the solution that we've landed on in this country for a lot of our problems is deeply carceral, deeply punishment-based.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I think it was, I think what I appreciated about that short was the lack of easy answers, obviously it's a short, so you can't really get
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, this wasn't a film that was like, oh, isn't this a great program that shows that you can do prison right and the guys are learning and they're so happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, no, it wasn't that, but it wasn't like, oh, look at this space where nothing ever can grow and nothing is good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I think it's interesting to see those two films, a prison in Oregon that's claiming to do a lot of things right,
[SPEAKER_03]: wet the end of the day, what you hear from the men inside is that nothing, nothing is sustainable can grow there.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing that the root of it is so destabilizing, that any type of growth that goes on top of that is formed on top of these unsteady roots and it's just something is going to break.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, one of the great things about the Alabama solution to me is, again, I'm going to avoid what might be considered spoilers, but you see the efforts of them to gather, you know, to group up, to team up, to unionize, so to speak, and a few different ways, and you see the intense pressure that's applied quite, you know, whether it's,
[SPEAKER_01]: separating people or starving people or all the many different ways that they undermine this attempt at unity so it just keeps them from being able to make real progress.
[SPEAKER_01]: It reminds me so much of, do you know about the Stanford prison experiments, the psychological studies?
[SPEAKER_01]: yes yeah for anyone who's not familiar it was basically they did studies where they had just you know normal people off the street and they would divide them into prisoners and guards and just found that the those who were put in the guards position would often become you know
[SPEAKER_01]: they would become more violent, they would become more cruel, and you see that a lot in the Alabama solution with the people who are in the guard's position, and then it's the question of who's attracted to that, what does that do to you, and obviously that can reflect on other organized groups like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, there are plenty of parallels there to other things that are going on, indeed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say if this is a topic that really interests you
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the great famous memoir, Salatari by Albert Woodfox, is an incredible companion to Alabama solution.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's in prison in Louisiana and then also briefly up here where I am in New York, but over span of 40 years spend a lot of it in Salatari.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yes, well, not every prison is like the ones profiled in Alabama.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, you know, it's
[SPEAKER_03]: just for those outside the United States.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is not limited to the South, California, New York, or have infinitely or have infamously dangerous prisons as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that book does a good job of showing how we didn't just arrive here.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been here.
[SPEAKER_03]: We keep being here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of the
[SPEAKER_03]: In terms of the form for Alabama solution, the cutting in of the morning shows sometimes who we're talking about the labor action that the prisoners were doing, just making your seismic curdle, the lack of empathy is just seems like an insurmountable mountain decline.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which I think why classroom four might be a good palette cleanser of you watch the world because there is such empathy that is created in these kinds of new forms.
[SPEAKER_03]: um, right of uh, of treatment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, then watch, sing, sing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so yeah, I, uh, I thought, you know, the access is, is unrivaled.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's, it's, impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been questioning the impact of stuff like this for years now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if it really changes anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you see, I mean, it's the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite shorts, and I seem to, it seems to not be a lot of people's favorite shorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite of the dark shorts is arms with only a camera that life and death of Brent Renault, and it is about...
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about not letting people forget that things are going, that things are not as they should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I understand the desire for people to just want to turn it off, to just want to say, I just can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: handle everything that's wrong with the world all the time and you do have to find that balance but it's also too quick that you know people be like oh that's terrible what's going on in those prisons there and then um you know out of sight out of mind and
[SPEAKER_01]: If people like journalists, like, run Renault or documentaries like this, they're like, no, don't look away because when you look away, you see, you know, people are like, rah, rah, yeah, we're doing something about this corruption in this prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just see, as people stop paying attention to it, the reforms that are supposed to be enacted just don't end up happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the momentum you need momentum and momentum has to be sustained and I think the tragedy is that so many people who are suffering have to keep sharing their stories in order to be the engine that sustains that momentum and that and that can feel tragic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, especially when so little has changed after so many stories have not told.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, people have to get mad enough, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true for all things.
[SPEAKER_01]: People have to get mad enough, and nothing's going to change.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do, I highly recommend this one myself, even though I said it's the hardest watch of the bunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can watch it on HBO Max, so it's easy to find just under two hours long.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've said this is my favorite of the five, but my prediction, I think, is still the perfect neighbor.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your personal preference and prediction?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so tough.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really tough, you know, going through them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they all are very, there doesn't seem to be one that's a runaway for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that in terms of predictions, you know, I think the Academy really hates Putin, so I wouldn't see it, I wouldn't say no to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, the last two we talked about were just so,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, in a way, topical, um, and relevant to a lot of conversations that are going on here and with some of the voters.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about favorite favorites a lot harder.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've just thankful I got to see them all, honestly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I took something from everybody, from from what everybody had to say and what everybody showed me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I learned and wasn't inspired, which is even more exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I'll say that the Alabama solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's have fewer nominations.
[SPEAKER_01]: It did win the Critics Trace Talk Award for political documentary, missed for, and there's three pending Oscars, producers' guild, and the satellite awards.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say the producers' guild awards will have happened by the time this episode comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So listen at the end, and I'll let you know who won there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say the one thing, just being a little spiritual.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think because Alabama solution,
[SPEAKER_03]: takes it out a little bit and talks a little bit broadly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's going to be a mark against it because I feel like people like smaller stories about things they can wrap their heads around and not maybe think about two big of problems.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I mean, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Based on precursors, yeah, I would say Mr. Nobody against Putin and the perfect neighbor have an advantage here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously a lot of support for those two.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's take a quick break here when we come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to shout out some other of the best documentaries we've seen this year, and including some lighter fare.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be right back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I'll just, I'm just going to read a lot of the shortlisted documentaries for the Oscars, um, apocalypse in the tropics, which I talked about in the back of the episode, uh, another one of my favorites.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say it was season coexistence.
[SPEAKER_01]: My ass, I just talked about cover up, we'll get to that in a second, folktales, which is about, that's a lighter one, that's about, uh, teenage European teenagers in the woods in Norway.
[SPEAKER_01]: of coming of age basically, Mr. Sysfeller, which is, with that set in China, right, about
[SPEAKER_01]: about a woman who basically tries to, if someone is having a husband's having an affair, she tries to nicely break that off and turn him back to his wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually kind of nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: My under-starvel friend's part one last day at Moscow.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about seeds, which I talked about in the spirit's episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about generational black farmers and the struggles they face in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: is a Brazilian documentary actually goes with a apocalypse in the tropics.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get to see a apocalypse in the tropics?
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't eaten.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have both of them are set in Brazil and both of them are about the rise and fall of Jair Bolsonaro.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say about lips in the tropics is it's a follow-up by the way and she did another one about I think the you know the fall of Lula and then this one shows him obviously coming back
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the apocalypse in the tropics is looks at it from the perspective of the Christian Evangelical movement and the role that that played in the rise and fall and Yannunie looks at the effect that this populism is right when populism had on the native indigenous
[SPEAKER_01]: determine themselves, be self-determined, and then also following beyond that, like, okay, so now they've been given a place allegedly they've been given a voice to be heard, but how effective is that and what do you do now and how do you, as you said, keep the momentum going?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely recommend those two, but did you have any from the short list you wanted to
[SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily that we haven't spoken on yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not from this list.
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen all of these yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Apologies.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'll say I talked about the spirits, nominees, and the bathed nominees, and those episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't go too much into them there, and of course, the shorts and the shorts episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But are there any other documentaries of the year that are favorite of yours?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say that I've been keeping an eye out for certain things that have kind of been in the realm of stuff I've worked on recently.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was curious about the film Predators.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I've been seeing that one yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that is kind of again with this trend of looking back on television or just kind of cultural trends of the late 90s and 2000s that's been going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: about girls gone wild, we've been kind of, there's been a kind of cultural kind of recordate of some time periods.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that one was really interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It comes from an interesting perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a worthwhile documentary if you're aware of, I don't know how international the Chris Hansen to catch a predator, which it seems kind of uniquely American to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: people who wanted to have an appropriate relationship with children into a house and film it and then arrest them and it was kind of a cultural phenomenon and this documentary kind of traces.
[SPEAKER_03]: The root of that through what it was, what it was trying to be and through the perspective of someone who ends up being someone who was a victim of sexual assault from an adult themselves as a child, which is why I think it's a really
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, that asks questions about, you know, what we, what kind of resolution we're all searching for after harm.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is obviously something that I find personally really intriguing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would recommend that if that's something that you were aware of back in the 90s, 2000s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was one that I heard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get to watch that one yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just reminded me of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just made sure it's on my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's one that I heard a lot of buzz about earlier in the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what's kind of surprised to see it wasn't being nominated for things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd say it probably like Perfect Neighbor.
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of like a pop, pop duck, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's out right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like maybe some people overlooked it is just another one of these rehashings of a cultural moment in time.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think the perspective specifically is what's really intriguing about that film, which gets revealed as it goes along.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not really sure as it's playing out, how the filmmaker's feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you're very clear about how the filmmaker's feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that can,
[SPEAKER_03]: That could be tricky sometimes, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't necessarily want someone injecting too much of their own and biases or what have you into a analysis of a time.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it was very effective the way it was done.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're thinking about making a documentary where you're a leading voice in it, I think that was when that was well done.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the other one that I heard a lot of buzz about, but didn't get as much attention as I would have expected is the librarians, which actually it was on the long list for the baptos.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, do you saw that one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to set it up?
[SPEAKER_03]: I just feel like librarians succeeded where others have failed if that makes sense to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: The on-the-ground safeguards for the, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, what did you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, so it's about librarians in the U.S. and basically the people on the front line of fighting against the bookbeds and, you know, they are being treated like prized by their communities because they're saying like, why do you want to keep smut on the shelf and it's like, I don't think Octavia Butler is smut.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is really important that children be able to read the book that about a bunny who happens to be gay
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, which by the way, you know, people ask me all the time like, well, if homosexuality is natural wise and happen in animals, like it does happen in animals all the time, all the time, the scientists are like, no, it's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just, you know, not really at times allowed to report that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously there is a time that they could and now they can't again in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, many way, yeah, that's, that's not, there's no science papers on these children's library, but it's, it's just like, like, I, I was surprised by some of the things are outlawed like hair love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sorry, we, there's something wrong with telling young black girls that they can love the texture of their hair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what possible objection could you have to a book like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the librarians don't either, and they have to take the brunt of it in their communities.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's basically what it's about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, yeah, very, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a short, I don't know if it was last year, two years ago, called the ABCs of of Book Writing, which I did not think was as successful.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a better version of that, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: gives a much more rounded contextual view of what these people are living with.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the facts, I mean, this happens in places all over the world when a authoritarianism comes to call, but the idea that every day people who are doing their jobs are all the sudden called to stand for a lot more than they ever thought they would need to as a really interesting conflict.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, this is my, you know, you'll have your special interest in police and prisons.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have my special interest in press and propaganda.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did especially a dive down that rabbit hole, another one I would shout out is, I'm not everything I want to be, which is, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know
[SPEAKER_01]: photo, it's basically like a slideshow, photos, but very compelling of a woman's story from growing up under the Soviet influence, still living in Japan for a while and coming back to it and her entire journey as a queer woman and not just finding out where she fits in as an artist and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not everything I want to do, that was a great one.
[SPEAKER_01]: cover up was one of the short list of ones that was nominated elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you have to see this one, but I wish I liked it better.
[SPEAKER_03]: than I did to standard for you, or?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so, okay, so it's about the stories of Seymour Hirsch and who is a depressingly important reporter, and I say depressingly because I realize like so many of the most famous news stories are traced to the single man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, what is everyone else doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the other format of this, it ends up just jumping to quickly from this to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as soon as I start to get into like, oh, that's situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me more about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on to something else and it just prevented me from really getting into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one is much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did like although you know it's the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what people say about arms with only a camera the life and death of bread or no, they um nominated short and for some reason I didn't have that problem there I got quite emotionally involved in that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know maybe just the central personality of the Or maybe you're picking nuts on something with a pacing that didn't quite give for you but worked in the short
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's hard to balance things that span lots of time and, you know, which doors do you open, which boxes do you open?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's got to be so challenging for a director and so I empathize with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but the ones that I really end up speaking to me the most are,
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, say there's one on the more fun side of things, is Vise's broke.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a special soft spot for that because when I used to work for a timeout Amsterdam, we shared office space with Vise and I happened to be the editor of the timeouts by section amongst other things.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it was, this is about someone who worked at BICE and is just tracing the rise and fall to where it became a serious news organization and then, you know, from some questionable beginnings and then going back to questionable reporting again, it's just very interesting to see how commercial interests can undermine your desire to do good reporting and be more about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did a couple projects for VICE land when that was a thing that was an existence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember working in the space around the time that VICE was starting to do some video content.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to make it look like VICE.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to get that VICE feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to get that VICE vibe.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a very...
[SPEAKER_03]: We wanted that gritty realism that didn't really care about morals.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a book in the system to get the story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was very popular, at least in edit rooms in the United States for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember I was into it at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I was in my 20s or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was prime time for like, yeah, this speaks to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: They get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, so let's do it for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just, I'll just say that in the press and propaganda corner, probably the two that I was most interested in going in, and thus probably responded to best, are very similar documentaries in subject about, one is about, it's called Reef install, it's about Lenny Reef install, the
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a filmmaker, very talented filmmaker, I have to, very grudgingly admit, who became the prime propagandist for the Nazi regime, and then she kind of just got it, she, you know, after the war, she was like, oopsies, I didn't realize and just lived the rest of her life perfectly free and fine and never really taking accountability for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although I like even better, my favorite documentary of the entire year is the Propagandist, which is a Dutch documentary about the Dutch counterpart to Lenny Reefenstall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just him, but the entire...
[SPEAKER_01]: Dutch propaganda machine of filmmakers and Why they did it and they is just it's it's also about a couple of men who have been studying them for like their entire lives And they have decades worth of Recording some interviews with them through the decades after the war up until today for those that are still surviving
[SPEAKER_03]: And some access, I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like, it's one of those ones where they just, you know, you get some commentary from the men who are studying them like, like, they'll be like, oh, his put upon posh accent, oh my god, you know, but for the most part, they just sort of give them, leave them enough rope to hang themselves with the things that they say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So interesting for me the propagandist Dutch documentary so it's not as easy to find but it was my favorite of the year just because it it just shows like the small petty reasons why people become fascists
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially like an artist becoming a fascist, I find that so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so the interesting thing is reef install.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me reef install.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually quite talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: The central figure of the propaganda, Siyon Tonison,
[SPEAKER_01]: Lessso.
[SPEAKER_01]: He actually, so he's gonna track some more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always feel, and they taught about Rufan's Island in film school, which was always a little bit distasteful, because it's like, oh, we have to acknowledge, like, do we, though?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, we just let her die in history, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish the bitch weren't so good.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's the interesting thing, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I find it fascinating that you have a yen
[SPEAKER_03]: of propaganda, and because it's not so often that you have someone with real artistic vision somehow align themselves with a regime that seems against creativity in every way shape and form.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to set shout out one more difficult one and then we go to the fun doc.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the one more slightly different group will just actually pretty difficult one, especially for me as an animal lover.
[SPEAKER_01]: Afternoons of solitude, it is a slice of life documentary that just follows a prominent bullfighter in Spain.
[SPEAKER_01]: As he goes through his fights and you see what a risk taker is, how he puts his life at risk, but also
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and this is why the public is so enamored with him and you know, his funny little dance and faces he makes, but, uh, you, the camera does not shy away from the torture of the animals and the pain and loneliness of their dying moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: So fair warning for that, but it is,
[SPEAKER_01]: absolutely stunning and even as someone who's an animal lover and that was a tough watch I was already against bullfighting and it definitely made me double down on that but it was still for me, it was a very worthwhile just to try to understand all sides of this like why does this exist and also just to show that aspect of it
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a, was it a technically a narrative short last year, Marion, that profile, the female twider, that I found really interesting, full fighting, but make it feminists.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll check that one out.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: It reminds me of, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: the code, though, which if it's a movie that's about animals, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not, this is, it's about him, really, but if they do, like, the camera will be like, there's, don't look away from the bull, there's a bull.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for that reason, amongst others, I prefer it to Marian, because my thing with Marian is that it was just glossing over the part of
[SPEAKER_01]: bullfighting that I find as tasteful and this absolutely does not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like years and it's just like like it just shows him, for instance, it shows someone has to help him get dressed because of those tight pants they wear and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes like literally picking him up so that he slides into his pants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could have just like watched him get dressed and undressed all day and not like in a sexual way though he's good at things.
[SPEAKER_03]: The absurd pedantry of it could be contrasted with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And these, I'm not just kept thinking like these, elaborate like how long did the beating take to do one of these coats and everything and then they're just covered with blood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Gosh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's so interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, let's talk fun docks and would with some fun docks that you saw.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, uh, Graham, uh, theft Hamlet was on here last year, I believe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I saw that when a while ago, I am a huge gamer, um, and I always have been.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought the idea of filming a quote, a documentary inside of a game engine.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just so, so brilliant and so cute.
[SPEAKER_03]: I found the endeavor to feel a little overlong by the end, but I thought that the, and I kind of wanted to see more of the final product that was really shown, the actual play, the actual play, but again, just the form, the idea of just doing all this screen capture and cutting it into something I thought was so cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the reason why it was on two years in a row is because last year, it was, um, it was honored at the Baptist, or I figured if it was maybe it was long-listed, or nominated, I can't remember which.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and this year, it was eligible in the U.S. because it released in U.S. later this year, but unfortunately, it didn't get nominated for anything, but it is just a, yeah, it's just, um, about, it was during COVID, some out-of-work actors are like, let's put on,
[SPEAKER_01]: stage play of Hamlet inside grand theft auto, but then people keep like, every time they would shoot their Hamlet, why they were trying to rehearse, I laughed, I couldn't help it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very absurd.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a super absurd.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so curious what really Shakespeare would think about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he'd get a kick out of it, because it's very much Shakespeare to the people, kind of vibes.
[SPEAKER_03]: our girl Diane Warrens film.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, better than I expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, okay, I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've glad you think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did, I actually transcribe an interview with her years ago and it was the first time I'd really heard her speak at Lake the bathroom career and her own work.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: I like understood her a little bit more, she wasn't this like who is this woman who keeps writing these songs over the past 20 years to get nominated for, once I actually heard her approach to the work, I was like okay, she's just a unique human, she's just a human and her lane.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the film really drove that home for me, and I appreciate her so much for not changing who she is in the face of all this success.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I found it so amusing.
[SPEAKER_03]: The people around her who didn't seem to process that.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was one talking head in particular who was just like a sounded that she didn't want to be like on a yacht somewhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was just like absolutely like, oh, she's just in this room.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's wrong with her?
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like leave her alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's just doing her thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was wonderful to see all her friends around her who support her from her childhood to see kind of,
[SPEAKER_03]: Some moments where she lost through her eyes and realized that it is such a personal thing, you know, it is such, especially when, you know, the lady goddess song, it's like that was such a piece of her that she put out there and.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's tough to go to those ceremonies and lose again, again, again, again.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's kind of like a joke, but it's not funny to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, in this year, so yeah, of course, you know, so it's so meta that she's, she got nominated for Best Song for Diane Warren, Red Lightless, which is about her quest to be good and Oscar basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we will be talking about this more in the music episode with Mark.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a chance to watch it as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is, it's, it's meta like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyone whose death racer will just, because we always know, there's always the Diane Warren film, and it's usually like the worst one, because it's just there for the song.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this one was one where we watched it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, oh wait, no, this one's actually good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's insight into Diane Warren.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just intensifies her legend in the death racing community.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, her legend, her legend only grows and I'll say that me, my partner, we're huge, K-pop demon hunter fans.
[SPEAKER_03]: But even he was like, after the film, he was like, oh, no, just give it Dan, let her have one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I mean, going into this year, I was like, oh, with this doc, maybe it'll be her year, but then with, yeah, K-pop demon hunters and sinners, it's like, no chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Dan, maybe next year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's going to become, you know, I'm predicting she's going to lose and it'll make her, uh, the person with the most nominations without ever winning 17, I think it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Keep on going, Diane.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm here for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll wash him every year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say the, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: Sophia Lorenne Italian film a couple years back I thought was great and that was really painful to have watched it and that was one that was nominated just for her song and I'm going to see it in any other way so yeah yeah sometimes sometimes there's a gem you know and often I think they're better than people say the only exception is tell it like a woman which I don't even know if it was ever officially released is so bad so bad so
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a couple there was like so is a series of shorts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's the Japanese one was actually quite good And there was a couple others that I thought were okay, and then there was like The one with carrots and delirine what's awful awful But you're right the Japanese one was really sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's always something you know That's why I love the death race.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can do something to love yeah in every film
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have to say, that's what I think a good year for my perspective, for some biojox.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not usually my cup of tea because they tend to be bog-standard.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Ronald Shoutout, Sally, it's about Sally Ride, the female astronaut, the first woman in space.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one is more bog-standard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just am very interested in Sally Ride and the space program.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you are too, then I would recommend that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the other two I would recommend with,
[SPEAKER_01]: more without reservation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just found them very interesting on their own.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is about I do also quite like Marley Matlin.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was partial to her doc called not alone anymore, which is about you know, being a trailblazer as a deaf actress.
[SPEAKER_01]: And um...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all of the ups and downs and pros and cons of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know there's another doc that came out this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't gotten to see yet called Deaf President now, which is about, you know, wishing for a Deaf President in Galilee, which actually is Marley Matlin, on her doc, she addresses it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they showed new news footage in that, with that a shown also in Deaf President's now, which she's cut out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, she addresses it in her documentary, but she has sometimes a controversial place in the deaf community because of her, I mean, I think because she was a trailblazer because she grew up in a family where she was the only deaf person and she was pressured to speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: and when she started her career, she did a lot of speaking because that was expected of her and now she fights back against that now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's just very interesting to see that insight and that whole journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other Biodock, which is my favorite of the year, is I had no idea that what is her name, Mariska Hargatee?
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not know that she was Jane Man's
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know anything about James Jain Mansfield, who's a classic, you know, sex involved in the era of Marilyn Monroe.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this documentary was that she, in Muscahari Catei, is looking back on her mother who died when she was young and discovering her life and all the secrets and where she came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just found my mom, Jain, it's called, absolutely riveting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the dot concept of let me get into my family history.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's something really rich and magical there built in nostalgia and discovery that's exciting to go down that road.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yes, did not know much about the cultural history of that woman or
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I'd heard that they were mother and daughter but hadn't really spent much time thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So fascinating kind of out of left field for me on that one, but yeah, really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's another one that, you know, it's a, I don't want to say, respectful as another documentaries are, but it's a, you know, framed as a prestige documentary, but also it's a very commercial, commercially friendly one, I'll say, because it's just like, ooh, popcorn, like what next?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, that happened to, you know, yeah, it's wild.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, lots, lots of intriguing details.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say the ones that I caught earlier this year, which might have been or early last year, which might have been the year before, which wasn't necessarily great doc, but just since we're on the topic of bi-dox.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw Liza.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Liza been now a documentary.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you saw that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very much...
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the form is incredibly simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like almost like I movie like chapter titles in between each section kind of cluggly put together.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't know as much about Liza Manelli as I probably should have.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a bit of her dealing with her mother and her mother's legacy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not we don't go down that road at one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was Judy Garland for anyone that doesn't know you.
[SPEAKER_03]: exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So another mother daughter famous kind of doc situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't go into it too too much, but like Diane Warren, Liza is a woman now kind of getting up there, but has surrounded herself with just an incredible group of friends.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so all that the doc itself is really nothing that's special if you are a Liza fan, you'll get something out of it for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, I'll have to add it to my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the one other fun one I wanted to shout out was secret mall apartment, which is as fun as the title implies.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's mostly implicit that in the early noddies I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: where this group who were pushed out of their housing because their neighborhood was being gentrified with this giant mall.
[SPEAKER_01]: They decided they found this like secret compartment in the mall that was this unused space that could only be accessed through ways that no one else used.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they built an entire apartment inside there and were able to quasi live there or have that as their meeting space for their art collective for four years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's just, it's really, it's about gentrification, but it's also about this group of friends and how people change as they grow up, you know, as they become older and some are still dedicated to that life and others choose a different way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I really like some secret moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the magic that can grow around a space, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like how a space can hold.
[SPEAKER_03]: something bigger than itself, it can hold an idea, it can hold an ideal or a shared ideal for a bit of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, or I'm sure, yeah, that's that sense of getting away with something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, it's something quite harmless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something quite harmless, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to spoil anything that's actually real happened, but is it say, of course, there's legal implications if you get caught.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, who did they hurt?
[SPEAKER_01]: nobody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any other last ones you wanted to go?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I watched some like bad TV dogs this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wish I could go back and replace some of those of some of these ones that you've mentioned.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, no, I'm excited to go and check out some of these that you've had on your list.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say it's been it's been a year.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're a lot of the
[SPEAKER_03]: sit down and really like dig in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, are there any fun trash A TV docs that we can watch to turn our brains off?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I watched the catfish, the...
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, did you watch, do you know about that one?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no, I don't know about the doc.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just know there's the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's not the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I'm sure there's that there's something that couldn't be done about that show, I'm sure, but
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, it was, it's about a girl, um, I think it's called catfish, um, and who is receiving horrible text messages, um, oh, it's not catfish.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a different film.
[SPEAKER_03]: What was I called?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, unknown number.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: The high school catfish, which just sounds terrible, but again, I like to check in because I get paid to make this kind of stuff sometimes and be, I do think it's interesting, as I've said, that that sometimes these stories are taking on a bigger asking bigger questions than just.
[SPEAKER_03]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's in the silacious sad story and we're like, why did the systems fail that are put in place to maybe stop this from happening?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so if you want a trashy one that has a huge twist that'll make you go, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's the best one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it on no color?
[SPEAKER_03]: Unknown color.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or unknown number, unknown number.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very well, I mean, I guess we've given you a nice watch list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will put at least a link to all of these that we mentioned in case you want to investigate any of them further in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, thank you so much for this is a lovely, lively conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually think at the end of it, this crop of docks versus last years, I might like it better and also find it
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still addressing many important things, but there are overall, with one exception, which is actually my favorite, easier watches.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I think so too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you shouldn't fear them this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you haven't embarked on the yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, they tend to be short, and they tend to have fun entry points, like let's look at serious things with a little pizzazz.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I used to have Mr. Putin when we were like, I bet you're wondering how I got to open this situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope to see more from because I think he probably got like, you know, he was a school videoographer and you know, we say, you know, he was also videoographer being around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that, can I use that as a verb?
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway,
[SPEAKER_01]: He was doing that work around town and things like that, but now he got a master class in document to refill making and is at the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I hope that will see more from him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mary, he had a personality and perspective for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if any of you at home have seen any of these or have thoughts about any of these, would love to hear, please send that to lorhounds at the lorhounds.com, and Rebecca, I will put a LinkedIn link in the show notes for anyone who wants to investigate your work, and thank you so much for joining me again for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for having me, this is a blast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again to Rebecca June Lane.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can check out her the link to her IMDB page again in the show notes, if you'd like to know more about her work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you so much to the listeners for being understanding about the mic situation this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know my side was a bit yikes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did my best to produce around it, so I hope you enjoyed the conversation anyway because I definitely did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said in the episode that the PGA, the producer's guild of America awards would have arred by the time that this came out, which is the case, and that I would update the winner at the PGA for the documentary category was surprise.
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom Jane, a film by Mariska Hargate, and so that is one of the ones that I just talked about in the fundox list where that's maybe my favorite bio doc of this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just really thought that it will, I mean, all the things that Rebecca uses to measure this, like the form, the access,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, that that was top notch for there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really definitely recommend checking out my mom, Jane, a film by Mariska Hargitay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find it on HBO.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but the interesting thing is that means that it beat at the PGA awards three Oscar nominees.
[SPEAKER_01]: The three leading contenders for the Oscars, likely the perfect neighbor, Mr. Nobody against Putin and the Alabama solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that mean that there just really isn't a front runner in this category either?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a crazy year for unexpected awards results with different results at every ceremony, which I actually quite like.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's still up in the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say the perfect neighbor and Mr. Nobody against Putin remain the front runners because certainly my mom Jane is not at the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't be surprised if the Alabama solution did slip in there and take it as well just because of the impact of that documentary.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is very memorable and I see people rating it consistently higher, whereas things like the perfect neighbor have, I think, more mixed reactions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, now, we'll see, it remains all very exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Between now and the Oscars on March 15th, there are a few more episodes coming out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be coming now in more rapid succession.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got dedicated episodes to the music categories, to the tech categories, and to animated films.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, these will be coming out over the next few days or so, and then there's just two more left to close it out next week, writing and directing and acting and casting, and uh, with the results from the actor of previously known as the Saga Awards that just came out last weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again to those who joined us for the live chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's keeping this year exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Paula and I will talk about that to set things up for the ceremony again on the 15th.
[SPEAKER_01]: Outside of Ward season, always lots going on in the Lairhounds main feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: You will find weekly breakdowns of the pit with John and David.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say David has taken the reins there because he is loving this show and wanted to go deeper.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I need to catch up on the show, so I can catch up on that coverage, but to show that I did catch up on is the live action one piece where John and I just did, we just recorded a season one recap that will come out probably just after this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: John is a big anime fan, a fan of the One Piece anime.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like 900 and something episodes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, this was my first watch, and my first step into the One Piece world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I finally watched season one of the live action show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I found it delightful.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk all about it, and we will be talking about the new season that comes out on Netflix March 10th.
[SPEAKER_01]: So watch out for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also watch out for now that I'm getting a more room in my schedule.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're finally going to do our deep dive into the new 28 years later, movie the bone temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm also thinking about a bride dive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious if people are interested in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If so, hop on the discord or send us an email and let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Supercast and Patreon subscribers, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always have ad-free access to all of these episodes, plus bonus episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just got our frozen food, second breakfast for the month, and it's Diane Keaton months.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're recording any haul later this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do recommend carving out some time in your schedule to listen to the affiliates on our network as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Properly howard just started a new season of movie reviews.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're calling it the newlywed season that really refers to the complex drafting situation that they set up which is already done.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they have created an eclectic list of first-time watches for each, each film is a first-time watch for one of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So listen to the draft over on the properly Howard feed that explains it all and also check out Nevermind the music where this week's episode is about AI and it just came out right before I'm recording this So I haven't gotten to listen to it yet, but Mark tells me that I get name checked as someone who pitches about her journalism career being ruined by AI So looking forward to listening to that
[SPEAKER_01]: And that brings us to our final thank yous.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, thank you to you for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, if you enjoyed this, please do share it with anyone else who you think might like to know more about the documentaries of the year or leave a nice rating or review wherever you're listening that helps us enormously.
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[SPEAKER_01]: make it possible for us to keep this little dream going and hoping to grow it more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Samarshan, Michael G. Michelle E. S. C. Peter O'H.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nancy M. Doves 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Andrew B. Quang Yu, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all, thank you all so so much, and happy death race to those who celebrate in a great award season to everyone everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Lower Hounds podcast is produced in public by the Lower Hounds.
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