WEBVTT 00:08.738 --> 00:14.885 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Feeding the Mouth of Bytube, a weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world. 00:15.466 --> 00:20.612 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Cynthia Gannonff, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author Dr. Ken Wilgus. 00:21.072 --> 00:22.894 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, here we are, Dr. Ken, we're back. 00:23.315 --> 00:24.376 [SPEAKER_00]: Feels like it's been a while. 00:24.456 --> 00:24.676 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi. 00:25.497 --> 00:25.718 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi. 00:26.198 --> 00:33.987 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you what's not good is when you're getting ready to tape a show on phones and technology and that kind of stuff in my literally bi-technology doesn't 00:34.422 --> 00:35.844 [SPEAKER_00]: we just went weird. 00:36.104 --> 00:38.667 [SPEAKER_00]: We just spent what three days trying to fix this. 00:38.767 --> 00:40.389 [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like it feels like it. 00:40.429 --> 00:41.871 [SPEAKER_02]: So everyone is you're listening. 00:42.472 --> 00:47.779 [SPEAKER_02]: My mic is not working and we're going with plan B, which Dr. Kin referred to as a 10 can earlier. 00:47.799 --> 00:50.602 [SPEAKER_02]: And we apologize yet at the same time. 00:51.423 --> 00:52.004 [SPEAKER_02]: Here we are. 00:52.044 --> 00:53.626 [SPEAKER_02]: It's free constant everyone. 00:53.666 --> 00:54.507 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. 00:55.077 --> 01:19.363 [SPEAKER_02]: we'll get it fixed but um okay so we get so many great questions from people and it does and we don't answer all of them obviously but it does help us to drive content sometimes when we see something repeated over and over and over and recently everybody is struggling with cell phones and their kids and um screen time and all of that so I felt like first yeah right I know. 01:19.630 --> 01:24.501 [SPEAKER_02]: And so let's, well, first of all, when you and I are growing up and fight, let's be very clear. 01:24.661 --> 01:28.931 [SPEAKER_02]: We were not growing at the same time, you and I are much different in brackets. 01:29.091 --> 01:29.632 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 01:29.813 --> 01:30.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm older than you. 01:31.493 --> 01:35.799 [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm just like mid-Jerry Attric, it's fine if you want. 01:35.819 --> 01:43.770 [SPEAKER_02]: But, I mean, I was thinking back with my parents, and I would get in trouble for staying on the phone, like the house line for so long. 01:43.930 --> 01:46.774 [SPEAKER_02]: Because nobody else could call in or whatever. 01:46.794 --> 01:54.244 [SPEAKER_00]: With the long cord that went into the laundry room or whatever that I could put it in and just talk in private. 01:54.545 --> 02:12.030 [SPEAKER_02]: right and then we had that call waiting and I wouldn't answer the other line because I didn't want to have to so I'd be like nobody called or I had somewhere my parents like okay so um and that was like the big struggle and now we've got the whole cell phone thing and so I remember having this conversation with my teens a couple years ago and 02:12.010 --> 02:14.073 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, talking about being present. 02:14.153 --> 02:17.318 [SPEAKER_02]: I still talk about being present when I home from college, but being present. 02:17.358 --> 02:20.863 [SPEAKER_02]: How much time He's been in your phone and all the things and I'm hugely important. 02:21.264 --> 02:21.564 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 02:21.604 --> 02:26.371 [SPEAKER_02]: And so one day I was like, okay, everybody We're pull out your phone and I may have told y'all that's before I can't remember. 02:26.391 --> 02:32.340 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like pull out your phone We're looking at screen time and I was looked at my sons and I you know, I was like, well, that's not good. 02:32.400 --> 02:33.782 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was a daughter 02:33.762 --> 02:41.997 [SPEAKER_02]: And then looked at hers, I was like, well, I mean, you guys, like, if you want two or three hours a day to be devoted to that, I guess, and then they're like, can we see yours? 02:42.177 --> 02:45.724 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, yeah, all in dignet and mine was higher than anybody. 02:47.868 --> 02:48.669 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's so embarrassing. 02:48.689 --> 02:50.893 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's not learn. 02:51.430 --> 02:51.891 [SPEAKER_02]: not learned. 02:52.011 --> 02:54.516 [SPEAKER_02]: I gave him the old part of my job. 02:54.637 --> 02:56.260 [SPEAKER_02]: I did that one. 02:56.300 --> 02:58.905 [SPEAKER_02]: I told a pivot that I'm not sure how accurate that is. 02:59.567 --> 03:09.507 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so I mean, I know we struggle with it as adults and so it's hard when you're trying to set the example and live it out, but yet also at the end of the day, you know. 03:09.942 --> 03:10.543 [SPEAKER_02]: What do we do? 03:10.563 --> 03:11.063 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we do it? 03:11.083 --> 03:33.163 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone sent me a picture of this meme of Jesus who's got his hand out and it says, now that's enough, hand me your cell phone and so someone sent me that and now me and my son and sons and law at different points and holidays when we're all sitting around and we catch each other and I've received it. 03:33.423 --> 03:39.949 [SPEAKER_00]: You suddenly get this text of Jesus saying, okay, that's enough, hand me your cell phone 03:39.929 --> 03:41.772 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we all need that. 03:41.792 --> 03:42.052 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 03:42.533 --> 03:48.483 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we did get a listener question that's kind of long and I'm not going to read it all, but and we've gotten several, but here's the gist of it. 03:48.944 --> 03:55.975 [SPEAKER_02]: People are struggling with kids that do not this one particular thing you have do not obey the rules around the phone. 03:56.376 --> 04:00.823 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, not just disobey the rules, but this particular instance, the. 04:00.803 --> 04:01.864 [SPEAKER_02]: Child with his own money. 04:01.924 --> 04:22.144 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess got a smart watch and then can use that watch when they're not allowed to have the phone after hours at certain times and right I mean, there's we've heard of kids getting burner phones so that they have freedom all kinds of things related to phones And so just what's the get a started with what's the general philosophy behind this? 04:22.204 --> 04:25.748 [SPEAKER_02]: What do we do with this that is a reality and their everyday lives? 04:26.082 --> 04:29.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, long time listeners are going, oh no, we're doing that again. 04:29.986 --> 04:34.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, we are because smartphones come up all the time. 04:35.351 --> 04:44.400 [SPEAKER_00]: And they are a very good marker kind of of the sort of subtleties that are necessary for planned emancipation. 04:44.861 --> 04:51.988 [SPEAKER_00]: So the example you're talking about, I remember was a 15 year old, not 17, but 15, right smack in the middle of all this. 04:51.968 --> 04:58.357 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a kid who was using old devices around the house. 04:58.517 --> 05:02.022 [SPEAKER_00]: And if they took his phone, did you get this smart phone? 05:02.102 --> 05:05.867 [SPEAKER_00]: They were doing everything they could to sort of lock that down. 05:06.268 --> 05:12.036 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm about two days away from finishing the workbook that I'm doing for feeding them out the bites you. 05:12.016 --> 05:32.657 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm all up all up on this like how you did stuff and and I was reminding it was reminded that step one in dealing with smartphones is to think about not phones but screens not what's on the screen but how many screened devices and this would include a smart watch. 05:32.637 --> 06:01.632 [SPEAKER_00]: how many screen devices do you have in your home and and take inventory and get rid of unnecessary screens because it is worth your while to know if you're going to try to set limits you need to be careful about okay is there an old you know like video game system that can get on the internet and I'm telling you like like a smoker trying to quick cigarettes they'll look around the house for 06:01.612 --> 06:06.618 [SPEAKER_00]: a half smoke but anything give me a give me an old device that I can get on. 06:06.719 --> 06:08.881 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's worth doing something like that. 06:09.021 --> 06:14.769 [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, because if you are going to restrict, you know, you need to be aware of what phones you have. 06:15.450 --> 06:24.121 [SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, you also need to be aware that planned emancipation is like a public relations campaign. 06:24.762 --> 06:29.728 [SPEAKER_00]: It is always saying, now you are 06:29.708 --> 06:31.551 [SPEAKER_00]: we understand that. 06:31.571 --> 06:38.204 [SPEAKER_00]: You are not the answer to any of your demands for us is not no, it is not yet. 06:38.725 --> 06:50.907 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to balance those two things that when we have put limits on the phone, which, by the way, isn't that kid's phone, even a smartwatch, partures with my own money, 06:50.887 --> 06:54.793 [SPEAKER_00]: has to go on an account that an under 18 year old cannot even have. 06:54.933 --> 06:57.677 [SPEAKER_00]: So it is your phone and your smartwatch. 06:58.278 --> 07:08.514 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you need to be clear about what your expectations are set consequences when that's discovered and make it count. 07:09.175 --> 07:11.799 [SPEAKER_00]: But weirdly, don't be surprised by that. 07:11.940 --> 07:16.206 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, a young adult just thinks you were ridiculous. 07:16.587 --> 07:18.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you bothering me? 07:18.730 --> 07:19.892 [SPEAKER_00]: about my phone. 07:20.293 --> 07:34.239 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I know because we think it's ridiculous that you think it's your phone and we don't think all this research silly us about the harm of these things is can be ignored. 07:34.740 --> 07:38.207 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are not kidding that for now, 07:38.187 --> 07:40.390 [SPEAKER_00]: these are the restrictions on your phone. 07:40.871 --> 07:43.735 [SPEAKER_00]: They cannot be in your room all night, things like that. 07:44.857 --> 07:55.993 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are caught breaking that or if you are caught with another device, something that you you're using to get around this, there will be increasingly significant consequences. 07:55.973 --> 08:01.603 [SPEAKER_00]: while, and this is the trick, recognizing that you have, of course, you think this is dumb. 08:01.663 --> 08:02.745 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, look at you. 08:02.806 --> 08:04.469 [SPEAKER_00]: You got another burner phone. 08:04.669 --> 08:06.011 [SPEAKER_00]: That must have been a lot of money. 08:06.392 --> 08:09.017 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you have to have an older person buy this for you. 08:09.338 --> 08:09.959 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 08:10.359 --> 08:17.172 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's mine now, and you are out for a week, or something that you're pretty serious about it. 08:17.152 --> 08:21.217 [SPEAKER_00]: But don't get all freaked out that why are they doing this? 08:21.237 --> 08:24.441 [SPEAKER_00]: They think we're stupid for restricting this at all. 08:24.801 --> 08:25.542 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm an adult. 08:25.983 --> 08:27.585 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not need your intervention. 08:27.685 --> 08:31.910 [SPEAKER_00]: And you want to kind of show a kind of respect for that that I know. 08:32.451 --> 08:33.993 [SPEAKER_00]: This is as young adult. 08:34.053 --> 08:35.194 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you get tired of this. 08:35.495 --> 08:37.277 [SPEAKER_00]: And hey, it's coming your way. 08:37.557 --> 08:37.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Trust me. 08:38.358 --> 08:40.141 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm sticking with this. 08:41.863 --> 08:45.387 [SPEAKER_00]: You make, I'm sure you've done other things I don't know about. 08:45.367 --> 08:48.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you hear the balance in that. 08:48.131 --> 08:52.337 [SPEAKER_00]: It's both you can't, but I get why you think this is ridiculous. 08:52.357 --> 08:52.778 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:52.798 --> 08:53.058 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:53.559 --> 08:59.407 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the, the, the great word in there too that I don't think we think about as parents is don't be surprised. 08:59.487 --> 09:02.852 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they're, they're, they're going to, they're going to be trying to get around it. 09:03.172 --> 09:05.055 [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to think it's ridiculous. 09:05.075 --> 09:07.578 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're not going to think there's any ultimate harm in that. 09:07.599 --> 09:10.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they could probably appreciate when you're like, I don't what you're drinking dry. 09:11.050 --> 09:15.673 [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're like, I just, it's so dangerous if you rent the anxious generation kids. 09:15.994 --> 09:16.798 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so dangerous. 09:16.878 --> 09:19.491 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, what in the world is going on? 09:19.859 --> 09:23.845 [SPEAKER_02]: And so for them to think I'm going to get around that we should expect that. 09:23.865 --> 09:25.367 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's encouraging. 09:26.309 --> 09:29.754 [SPEAKER_02]: What are reasonable restrictions to put on a phone? 09:29.954 --> 09:33.960 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that could vary depending on the child, the young adult. 09:34.240 --> 09:35.983 [SPEAKER_02]: But what would be reasonable restrictions? 09:36.003 --> 09:38.687 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, for instance, it's not going to stay in a room all night. 09:38.747 --> 09:45.597 [SPEAKER_02]: That would be a reasonable restriction amount of time on it during family time. 09:45.637 --> 09:48.381 [SPEAKER_02]: I would think is a reasonable restriction. 09:49.019 --> 09:57.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, with teenagers, I tend to think it's more effective to go first at when screens are not allowed. 09:57.692 --> 10:04.183 [SPEAKER_00]: Not trying to say, okay, you can be on TikTok, but not on, I don't know, Instagram, that gets silly. 10:04.844 --> 10:08.369 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first line is when you cannot have screens. 10:08.750 --> 10:12.876 [SPEAKER_00]: And really, although you don't have to follow this, you're not roommates. 10:13.477 --> 10:16.782 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good idea for a lot of these screen restrictions. 10:16.762 --> 10:18.024 [SPEAKER_00]: for yourself as well. 10:18.264 --> 10:21.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you really shouldn't have a smartphone with you in bed. 10:23.211 --> 10:25.094 [SPEAKER_00]: That blue light will keep you awake. 10:25.174 --> 10:34.968 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, but the point is, yeah, reasonable, again, to the parent, not reasonable to the teenager, would be you cannot have this in your room at overnight. 10:35.969 --> 10:38.333 [SPEAKER_00]: No screens, even in our pockets at dinner. 10:39.775 --> 10:43.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly at holidays, I've started, I have a basket that I, 10:43.340 --> 10:45.143 [SPEAKER_00]: take up phones from all the adults. 10:45.404 --> 10:56.282 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem with that is if you have a photographing adult, she doesn't, I'm not going to name which relative of mine, doesn't want her phone in a basket, because she wants to be able to take photos. 10:56.623 --> 11:03.795 [SPEAKER_00]: But the point is you're kind of making this a 11:03.775 --> 11:05.357 [SPEAKER_00]: and so those are reasonable. 11:05.657 --> 11:12.685 [SPEAKER_00]: What's not reasonable, I remember we got one question a while back, someone was saying that they got more cell phone time based on their grades. 11:13.426 --> 11:25.260 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just be honest, there's a point in the book where I say, if you don't like this planned emancipation thing, don't do it because there's a way of half-hearted 11:25.240 --> 11:34.319 [SPEAKER_00]: that, hey, I like the idea, but I'm still doing some eight-year-old restriction type things like more phone time for grades. 11:34.740 --> 11:37.485 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a child thing that is not teenagers. 11:37.906 --> 11:43.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Teenagers are on their way out to adulthood and must be trained. 11:43.077 --> 11:45.603 [SPEAKER_00]: formulas like that are not freedoms. 11:46.065 --> 11:54.526 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just privilege that apparently says if you have a learning disability, you'll have the least experience with phone, then the A student. 11:54.546 --> 11:56.551 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how that makes any difference. 11:56.571 --> 12:00.040 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but that's an example of where I do get. 12:00.020 --> 12:23.108 [SPEAKER_00]: concerned sometimes for some parents cannot hear the difference between planned emancipation, which is respect for young adults who are heading out and you will be out of the business of controlling their lives after high school versus this still just hanging on trying 12:23.088 --> 12:25.210 [SPEAKER_00]: control because I just don't think it's good for them. 12:25.651 --> 12:36.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, but planaments patient is completely this PR campaign that must be proven that we understand you are desiring independence. 12:36.944 --> 12:39.567 [SPEAKER_00]: We respect that and we're on our way out. 12:40.588 --> 12:42.910 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so let's dig into that for just a second. 12:43.391 --> 12:47.796 [SPEAKER_02]: So the person that's giving more time based on grades. 12:48.130 --> 12:57.221 [SPEAKER_02]: that that gets under your skin and that is not a part of what we're doing because it's being used as a reward system and it's not something that's training them to be the dulls. 12:57.241 --> 12:57.821 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that correct? 12:59.183 --> 13:13.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's a kid system and there's nothing wrong with kids systems, you know, kids that make their bed and put their clothes away, get an extra check marks and at the end of the week you get pizza, that's great. 13:13.460 --> 13:25.124 [SPEAKER_00]: But the whole point is, after 13, this is not a child and American parents, 400 years, have increasingly forgotten that that's what happens. 13:25.545 --> 13:31.697 [SPEAKER_00]: And wonder why my kid doesn't respond like they used to because they're not a child anymore. 13:32.379 --> 13:32.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:33.203 --> 13:52.444 [SPEAKER_02]: So flip this, let's say that your child is an A student or a B student and they become a C student or a D student and you are seeing this young adult is on their phone all the time and so as opposed to going at it as every time you have an A again, give you two extra hours a day. 13:52.424 --> 13:58.295 [SPEAKER_02]: you allow the freedom with a phone until there's some sort of deficit in there. 13:58.315 --> 13:59.598 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a great issue or whatever. 13:59.958 --> 14:03.064 [SPEAKER_02]: And then would you suggest like, okay, now your grades are dropping. 14:03.385 --> 14:05.008 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting restrictions all the time. 14:05.028 --> 14:13.825 [SPEAKER_00]: It's exactly that's well said because the message that you're giving teenagers, what is rewarding to a teenager is leave me alone. 14:13.805 --> 14:17.268 [SPEAKER_00]: not, you know, you could give a Mamazarati for straight days. 14:17.748 --> 14:25.195 [SPEAKER_00]: It still goes against what they're basically wanting, which is why are you messing with me at all? 14:25.776 --> 14:33.522 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all of 15, 16, which used to be an age of much more accountability and, you know, freedom. 14:33.823 --> 14:42.310 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it is a matter of how do you reinforce the message that says, dude, we're trying to leave you alone with this. 14:42.290 --> 14:48.138 [SPEAKER_00]: And we already set the grade limit at what you know you can do that more than two seas. 14:48.318 --> 14:59.754 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even hard for you, but since you have three seas, I'm sorry, but we're going to have to limit your phone use, your electronics use, and that's always on the expectation list. 15:00.816 --> 15:07.285 [SPEAKER_00]: But that is not the same as trying to manipulate rewards and punishments to motivate them. 15:07.265 --> 15:09.368 [SPEAKER_00]: Because these are two old for that. 15:09.808 --> 15:15.736 [SPEAKER_00]: They must have their own motivation for school by high school for sure by junior high really. 15:16.597 --> 15:18.440 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that makes total sense. 15:18.460 --> 15:25.909 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's talk about like different apps and we're going to be the first to say that we're not the savvyest on every app. 15:25.929 --> 15:27.572 [SPEAKER_02]: I know Instagram, you barely do. 15:28.052 --> 15:30.235 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have tip talk none of my kids have. 15:30.485 --> 15:45.507 [SPEAKER_02]: And so or they haven't until they look by health somewhere, but picking and choosing apps like, well, you can have this one, which can't have this one, it comes to my mind that having rules regulations, you can't actually enforce. 15:45.487 --> 16:02.493 [SPEAKER_02]: are a problem because I don't know what they're I mean they they could delete that account every time they walk in my door But it's they're all day at school or it's the weekend at the friend's house or whatever So talk to us about just that like we're well intentioned we don't want our kids on certain apps You don't want them there longer. 16:02.513 --> 16:12.388 [SPEAKER_02]: They need to be we know the research But actually can we control that in a 16 17-H you're all that if not then what do you suggest and we just have conversations around it like how do we handle that? 16:12.537 --> 16:28.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that first thing you said is right, whatever you do, don't be afraid to regularly announce and remind them that I know this is probably silly to you because you can probably get around this, we know that you're old enough that if you want to, you might. 16:29.039 --> 16:32.904 [SPEAKER_00]: It's important that they know that you know your own limits. 16:33.324 --> 16:37.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Teenagers love to, think their parents, 16:36.989 --> 16:43.281 [SPEAKER_00]: believe they can control everything and be make them see that you can't control everything. 16:43.301 --> 16:46.366 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you want to start right out with look, I hate even doing this. 16:46.486 --> 16:48.530 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate restricting these apps. 16:48.610 --> 16:49.632 [SPEAKER_00]: But here's what we're going to do. 16:49.672 --> 16:52.838 [SPEAKER_00]: Having said that, and again, 16:52.818 --> 17:00.469 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the parents listen to this, we're just now to the point of recognizing what probably needs to happen with smartphones. 17:00.509 --> 17:08.421 [SPEAKER_00]: So many parents listening have not sort of introduced these things at the quote right age because we just found that out. 17:08.441 --> 17:10.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan Heitz spoke the anxious generation. 17:10.704 --> 17:14.590 [SPEAKER_00]: I think is kind of a research slam dunk at least for now. 17:14.570 --> 17:21.922 [SPEAKER_00]: that does indicate with good reason that smart phones are not good for children under ninth grade. 17:22.262 --> 17:27.470 [SPEAKER_00]: There's even a whole program called Wait until 8th that all of a sudden, yeah, no ninth. 17:28.071 --> 17:37.967 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can, that's much more beneficial that you can have other phones, but not a smartphone with apps and all that stuff and not until ninth grade. 17:38.107 --> 17:41.252 [SPEAKER_00]: And then no social media until 16. 17:41.232 --> 17:48.521 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have found a higher percentage of teenagers that aren't necessarily pushing hard for it, because they can read too. 17:48.741 --> 17:56.410 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a portion of teenagers, maybe not yours, if you're listening, but that are also kind of like, yeah, this is dumb. 17:56.790 --> 17:57.752 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to get on this. 17:58.052 --> 18:04.439 [SPEAKER_00]: But you do better when you're following that, that, okay, at 16, you can have social media. 18:04.460 --> 18:06.582 [SPEAKER_00]: At that point, if you've done that, 18:06.562 --> 18:13.793 [SPEAKER_00]: then you don't really have to do, you can have TikTok, but you can't have Instagram, and we certainly don't like Snapchat. 18:13.813 --> 18:23.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are things that I think you do better to allow for it at what they choose, and then really use that freedom. 18:23.447 --> 18:29.976 [SPEAKER_00]: The freedom says, gosh, I hate that you have that app, but you're too old for me to make you not do it. 18:30.657 --> 18:32.620 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you can communicate about it. 18:32.954 --> 18:39.740 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, then you can say, okay, just red does, you know, that Snapchat doesn't actually erase the picture. 18:39.760 --> 18:41.902 [SPEAKER_00]: It says that it, that it, that it erases, right? 18:42.342 --> 18:45.085 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I could, I like, I'm not saying you can't. 18:45.605 --> 18:46.246 [SPEAKER_00]: It's your deal. 18:47.367 --> 18:50.109 [SPEAKER_00]: Mr. grownup, I'm just saying, have you read this? 18:50.429 --> 19:01.459 [SPEAKER_00]: There should be if you've done it right and they believe you that, you know, now you'd have a 16, 17 year old that has freedom to, of social media, not per app. 19:01.439 --> 19:03.342 [SPEAKER_00]: and then you can talk to them. 19:03.382 --> 19:18.265 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's much more effective to really be able to communicate about it because certainly by 16, as you mentioned, erecting some sort of control barricade that keeps them, you know, they're on Instagram, but they cannot get to TikTok. 19:18.285 --> 19:30.163 [SPEAKER_00]: That's almost impossible and by that age, you really need to be preparing them for their insight and their limits, 19:30.548 --> 19:34.392 [SPEAKER_02]: What about if you figure out that your kids and social media jerk? 19:34.412 --> 19:36.574 [SPEAKER_02]: They just post mean things. 19:36.635 --> 19:39.337 [SPEAKER_02]: They, in it, not an illness have inadvertent. 19:39.357 --> 19:41.700 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not inadvertent, but you know, you hear all the time? 19:41.720 --> 19:42.761 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all about a lot of times. 19:43.061 --> 19:55.695 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in pulse of, or, you know, you find out your kids the one that's posting the group picture, but then takes out, you know, edits out the one kid that nobody likes or just jerk moves stuff that your kids doing. 19:56.772 --> 20:10.393 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, you say I'm taking away Instagram when you're not sure you can control it anyway, I'm taking away your phone, I mean they can be a jerk in college and you probably can't control it that much you've got to work for that so so what do you do how do you how do you work for those things. 20:10.492 --> 20:16.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, plant emancipation is all about recognizing these are young adults. 20:17.519 --> 20:33.594 [SPEAKER_00]: So taking something away because you've been mean is fine for children, but with young adults by 15, 16, it's just not very effective to issue another punishment with a big speech. 20:33.715 --> 20:36.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe a scripture that always helps. 20:36.277 --> 20:41.483 [SPEAKER_00]: and expect your teenage or to go away going, you know, that really meant something to me. 20:41.623 --> 20:42.925 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not impossible. 20:43.305 --> 20:43.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 20:44.086 --> 20:45.508 [SPEAKER_00]: It is just unlikely. 20:45.969 --> 20:58.183 [SPEAKER_00]: But the good news is what is surprisingly effective is that if you are someone that has held firm on the public relations campaign, I am working my way out of your life. 20:58.163 --> 21:00.286 [SPEAKER_00]: we are not controlling everything. 21:00.346 --> 21:04.151 [SPEAKER_00]: We are still going to control this thing, but even then it will be yours. 21:04.551 --> 21:06.494 [SPEAKER_00]: Then it opens up much more freedom. 21:06.534 --> 21:13.143 [SPEAKER_00]: So in that case, freedom to communicate, freedom to say, I don't even look at your account. 21:13.523 --> 21:15.145 [SPEAKER_00]: This is be to a 16 year old. 21:15.686 --> 21:17.408 [SPEAKER_00]: But I have to admit I did see this. 21:18.069 --> 21:23.496 [SPEAKER_00]: And I even got a text from friends, your friend's mom, who said that you had said this, 21:23.476 --> 21:24.397 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing? 21:24.517 --> 21:25.358 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think? 21:25.899 --> 21:29.324 [SPEAKER_00]: And you might remind them, I'm not going to take that from you. 21:29.524 --> 21:30.205 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, why? 21:30.665 --> 21:32.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not effective. 21:32.828 --> 21:38.456 [SPEAKER_00]: At this age, they really need you want to know what do you think the teenager think? 21:38.656 --> 21:40.558 [SPEAKER_00]: What does the teenager think about themselves? 21:40.879 --> 21:42.040 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you fine with this? 21:42.621 --> 21:47.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And without that control battle, you have much more flexibility. 21:47.287 --> 21:48.970 [SPEAKER_00]: to be able to talk about that. 21:49.190 --> 21:59.065 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is there'll be someone listening fearful parents will be like, yeah, but you can't just find that they've excluded someone and been meaning and then just let them keep their phone. 21:59.165 --> 22:00.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can. 22:00.107 --> 22:06.156 [SPEAKER_00]: The question is, is that ineffective shouldn't you as a caring parent? 22:06.136 --> 22:07.077 [SPEAKER_00]: punished them for that. 22:07.778 --> 22:09.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the whole thing is what age? 22:10.642 --> 22:15.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're still doing that post 14, 15 is the same as a child. 22:16.148 --> 22:28.303 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've been doing that now for three generations, four, really, and maybe what your parents would have done, but no one ever on the planet in the history of man ever did that before. 22:28.684 --> 22:31.367 [SPEAKER_00]: When your baby is old enough to make a baby, 22:31.347 --> 22:32.549 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not a baby anymore. 22:32.789 --> 22:36.294 [SPEAKER_00]: These are young adults and being effective with them. 22:37.075 --> 22:49.053 [SPEAKER_00]: I just read another article of a really discouraged single woman who just can't believe the how these boys that she's having to date, they don't know how they're living at home. 22:49.133 --> 22:50.014 [SPEAKER_00]: They're 25. 22:50.435 --> 22:53.119 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not even in education or a job. 22:53.099 --> 22:57.103 [SPEAKER_00]: and she's like, you know, he's men have got to be grown up earlier. 22:57.123 --> 23:20.068 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, maybe that's being down on men, but the point being is that we have, if you're not careful, it's the whole reason for feeding them out the bites you, is that you can be a caring parent involved like no parent has ever been before and raise what could you run the risk of a permanent child adult 23:20.048 --> 23:35.313 [SPEAKER_00]: Just put something up on the internet that they shouldn't have done, they lost friends over it and you can be there to consult with them because the controlling thing is not effective for young adults. 23:35.333 --> 23:40.521 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, is there any situation you can think of where you would say I'm taking a phone it's mine. 23:41.125 --> 23:42.086 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah. 23:42.106 --> 23:44.971 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can definitely take it for certain periods of time. 23:45.131 --> 23:53.784 [SPEAKER_00]: Why if a kid is restricted from their phone, say for two days, and you find a burner phone, that would be perfect to go out laughing. 23:53.864 --> 23:54.325 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at this. 23:54.545 --> 23:56.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, don't be shocked. 23:56.688 --> 23:57.690 [SPEAKER_00]: You are a genius. 23:57.730 --> 23:59.272 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you even get this thing? 23:59.753 --> 24:00.133 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 24:00.153 --> 24:04.720 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is mine and your phone's gone for another two weeks. 24:04.700 --> 24:05.341 [SPEAKER_00]: nothing. 24:05.361 --> 24:12.895 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I find any thing around and I get it, I think you think we're ridiculous, but you know what, son, we think you're ridiculous. 24:13.516 --> 24:21.811 [SPEAKER_00]: And you will continue to be limited if you go around this, it's better for you to just follow the restriction than it comes back to you. 24:22.072 --> 24:26.640 [SPEAKER_00]: But the answer to when do you ever say never or no phone, don't do that. 24:26.620 --> 24:36.137 [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps them from, in other words, time limit it because they must be prepared for after high school. 24:37.419 --> 24:39.984 [SPEAKER_00]: You have no forced control over them anymore. 24:41.106 --> 24:43.270 [SPEAKER_00]: And they must be making their own choices. 24:43.390 --> 24:45.253 [SPEAKER_00]: So for a period of time, sure. 24:45.233 --> 24:50.379 [SPEAKER_00]: two weeks, maybe four weeks if it's gotten bad, certainly going around your limit. 24:50.880 --> 24:53.583 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can't imagine a time where you say that's it. 24:53.944 --> 24:55.465 [SPEAKER_00]: You're never going to have a cell phone again. 24:55.506 --> 24:56.527 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a joke, son. 24:56.787 --> 24:57.648 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, you will. 24:58.589 --> 24:59.130 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 24:59.150 --> 25:02.534 [SPEAKER_02]: And then what about using the cell phone as a punishment for a different behavior? 25:02.935 --> 25:03.816 [SPEAKER_02]: You got home late. 25:04.176 --> 25:07.360 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm taking yourself a versus a cell phone infraction. 25:07.627 --> 25:08.749 [SPEAKER_02]: you lose the cell phone. 25:09.170 --> 25:10.112 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question. 25:10.312 --> 25:11.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're possible. 25:11.755 --> 25:15.241 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is best to cell phone instruction. 25:15.261 --> 25:17.485 [SPEAKER_00]: In fraction means reduce cell phone. 25:17.926 --> 25:24.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Curfue violation means you have an earlier time, you know, the next week and day. 25:24.097 --> 25:33.888 [SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of overlaps school, for example, tends to overlap because electronics is often a big distraction. 25:34.249 --> 25:36.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, you're not trying to teach. 25:36.912 --> 25:37.552 [SPEAKER_00]: See what I mean? 25:37.592 --> 25:43.019 [SPEAKER_00]: If you stay away from your phone, your grades will go, they're too old to be listening to that. 25:43.379 --> 25:46.763 [SPEAKER_00]: But you can absolutely, very commonly, I think, in the book, 25:46.743 --> 26:05.562 [SPEAKER_00]: is if your grades are below the minimum required, then for the next three to six weeks, whatever grading period you have them on, then you have limited or restricted electronics and or phones until the grades come back up, then you give it back. 26:05.542 --> 26:15.992 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's there's limits even for things that aren't just phone related, but it is definitely worth aiming for if you can, phone relates to phone, curfew release curve. 26:16.012 --> 26:16.953 [SPEAKER_00]: You try to do it like that. 26:18.154 --> 26:18.254 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 26:18.274 --> 26:22.938 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the last thing I and we kind of touch on earlier, but I just want to make sure we're very clear on this. 26:23.259 --> 26:28.423 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the biggest frustration most of us have with our kids is just their lack of being present. 26:28.864 --> 26:35.430 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, um, you know, 26:35.630 --> 26:38.055 [SPEAKER_02]: from 6 to 10 at night, just not at the kitchen table. 26:38.536 --> 26:40.000 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's just say that happens with the thing. 26:40.020 --> 26:41.022 [SPEAKER_02]: Their grades are good and all that. 26:41.423 --> 26:46.093 [SPEAKER_02]: But they happen to be sitting on the couch or around, and they are literally sitting on it from the entire time. 26:46.314 --> 26:49.180 [SPEAKER_02]: Everything in you wants to be like, oh, my goodness. 26:49.360 --> 26:50.202 [SPEAKER_02]: What are we doing here? 26:50.723 --> 26:52.828 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm just wondering, 26:53.467 --> 27:02.281 [SPEAKER_02]: The temptation is for us to micro manage that in the out of frustration and I've just I'm curious your thoughts on that when they're just not present their always on their phone I mean is that their choice? 27:02.361 --> 27:09.613 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean if their grades are good and they're within that the confines of what we said they can do Then we just got to get over it or I'm big on a lecture. 27:09.713 --> 27:11.897 [SPEAKER_02]: I like a good lecture around that 27:12.350 --> 27:14.853 [SPEAKER_02]: And I found that to be highly ineffective. 27:15.154 --> 27:16.876 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll give a good lecture around that. 27:17.277 --> 27:18.879 [SPEAKER_02]: There's only 70 years in this house. 27:18.899 --> 27:21.222 [SPEAKER_02]: And don't you want to spend time with your little brother? 27:21.322 --> 27:22.303 [SPEAKER_02]: I've given every lecture. 27:22.504 --> 27:24.426 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm going to save everybody the time. 27:24.807 --> 27:25.287 [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't work. 27:25.628 --> 27:26.689 [SPEAKER_02]: So thoughts on that. 27:26.769 --> 27:33.919 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, do we just either, if it's really knowing at us that we need to change what our boundaries are on phones or do we just need to let it go? 27:34.152 --> 27:44.753 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a nuanced question because I think cell phones it's important to make sure that your teenagers understand that you are concerned about it for yourself as well. 27:45.454 --> 27:53.089 [SPEAKER_00]: So as many of the parents here, here's the funny part, you ever notice that when you are lost in your phone for a bit, you don't realize you're lost in the phone. 27:53.069 --> 28:00.183 [SPEAKER_00]: So it is without saying, hey, let's all stop looking at my phone if you stop looking at your phone. 28:00.203 --> 28:00.945 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not roommates. 28:01.065 --> 28:02.027 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you should do that. 28:02.248 --> 28:03.430 [SPEAKER_00]: It's your phone they're looking at. 28:03.951 --> 28:09.522 [SPEAKER_00]: However, I think it is a good idea on top of whatever limits you have for your teenager. 28:10.184 --> 28:13.390 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm increasingly a fan of your family's limits. 28:13.370 --> 28:41.183 [SPEAKER_00]: We all put nobody has the phone and remember attention span is actually affected by a cell this is the research cell phone on on the table between you and the person you're talking to cell phone on the table and off you still don't pay as much attention cell phone in your pocket you're not paying as much attention in the next room and on is still the the only thing is off and in the next room then you're fully present. 28:41.163 --> 28:47.250 [SPEAKER_00]: So it it if it has effect on us presence like you're talking about and I think it's worth talking about that. 28:47.270 --> 28:53.878 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have the restriction that your kid has because that's my phone not in your room. 28:53.918 --> 29:01.527 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not at certain points, but then I think it's a good idea to put family limits on it because that's just what we do. 29:01.827 --> 29:06.192 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care if it's your uncle so and so over here we all try to do this. 29:06.172 --> 29:08.555 [SPEAKER_00]: um, again, not because it's all the same. 29:08.615 --> 29:09.436 [SPEAKER_00]: I caught you. 29:09.516 --> 29:10.497 [SPEAKER_00]: You were looking at your phone. 29:10.798 --> 29:13.141 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right, but no, I'm not giving you yours. 29:13.501 --> 29:17.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, but still, that kind of limit I think is important because you're right. 29:18.327 --> 29:25.696 [SPEAKER_00]: If everyone's just sitting around on their phone and you haven't had a limit on that, then you do better to communicate about it. 29:27.178 --> 29:33.225 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but also maybe rethink your family's limits of what are we expect from all of us. 29:33.205 --> 29:45.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it does mean that you'll have, I think most parents listening, there will be a pretty decent amount of time that you are frustrated watching that kid once again absorbed on that screen and try to communicate. 29:45.238 --> 29:52.225 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, you're doing a public relations campaign of an occupying force saying, we are on our way out. 29:52.765 --> 29:59.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I understand that you like your phone and in two years, it'll be up to you anyway, but can I just ask it? 29:59.132 --> 30:02.976 [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot repeat that enough. 30:03.361 --> 30:31.292 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember and we'll wrap up with a third last summer we took our kids out of the country for the first time and so we only paid for my husband and I had to have like the full cell service like we have here out of the country and then the kids they didn't have you know any access unless they were on the hotels Wi-Fi it was glorious it was glorious it was glorious and did they agree we never mentioned I mean we just told them we're like hey it's X amount of 30:31.593 --> 30:40.405 [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody asked us if they could pay their own because right and so they were like okay and so now listen when you got to the hotel you would have thought. 30:40.553 --> 31:08.502 [SPEAKER_02]: That they ran for 500 companies with the with the speed, which they had to do all the things that I mean just the days, but I, I they felt the freedom to like to you, yeah, when it's not even an option and yes, in their pockets, but they didn't have anything on it, they were so present and it was such it was amazing it was like, yeah, that is and you told them that and that that's part of respect for them while also the nuance of yeah, there's limits need to be there. 31:08.937 --> 31:10.879 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, okay, well, thank you for this. 31:11.120 --> 31:15.806 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, the irony is not lost on us that we're talking technology and my technology's terrible. 31:15.826 --> 31:23.295 [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you, everyone, for dealing with my lack of an adequate mic for this episode, and maybe the next one, we'll see how this goes. 31:23.816 --> 31:28.742 [SPEAKER_02]: And this will definitely not be the last time that we have a show on phones. 31:28.802 --> 31:31.005 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, don't you wish it were, but all the time. 31:31.565 --> 31:33.388 [SPEAKER_02]: It won't be, we'll have more, so. 31:33.588 --> 31:34.709 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, Dr. Kim, thank you. 31:35.090 --> 31:35.991 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.