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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to those days and Mitch and Oku pro retrospective episode 13, Mitch and Oku's UK excursion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm one of your hosts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's real pal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Spear is joining alongside your other host, K. Slow and K. We're in 1996 already with this episode and because of kind of where we are on the calendar, I feel like that we have to look back at 1995 before we get into 1996 and one of at least one of the more
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the year, you know, why I think anybody that's fault along in this journey has been waiting for us to get to this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very glad that it only took us 13 episodes to get here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we made really good pace through 93, 94, 95.
[SPEAKER_02]: I look forward to going really in depth in the 96.
[SPEAKER_02]: I keep on telling people, I think I was about a month ago sitting down and plotting at the 1997 episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is just some outrageous stuff in the timeline.
[SPEAKER_02]: in 1997 that I'm really looking forward to getting into and then before you know it will sort of be at the end of our run here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if this is going to be exactly the halfway point of those days, but we are certainly now shifting into what would be recognized as the peak of vicedoku pro, the prime of vicedoku pro, and our understanding of this promotion as we sit here recording in the first quarter of 2026 is largely shaped off
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at least the way that I kind of look at it, you've been the one more producing and plotting out the how the run of this is going to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of look at this as a story in three acts and really 92, 93 and 94 and into 1995 maybe starting maybe the end of the
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like that now we're into 1996, we are kind of in this mature position for Mitch and Oaku Pro, and especially as a release for our kind of story by, I feel like that this is kind of the climactic actions happening very fast and furious, and then before you know it, we're on to Act 3 in 1998.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's something that we're going to be probably going to this kind of six episodes per calendar year as it relates to Machinoku Pro format outside of 1996 and 1997, but I feel like that we're still like not exactly where I would consider the halfway point maybe, I mean, it matters how much you're looking at Jacob 2000, really.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are six episodes in 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would imagine there's probably six in 1997 as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then 98, 99, I mean, you and I are going to be talking a lot of crazy max, but that is where some of the footage either fins out or some of the footage, at least based on my previous viewings, is maybe not worth diving super deep into, whereas, you know, 1996, and we'll talk about it as we go along and we'll make sure that everybody can see this footage that wants to see this footage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Based on a few different comp tapes and if you follow those comp tapes, you can follow along with this promotion pretty easily, you know, I think this is maybe the episode where things are the most scattered about, you know, we had to, we had to track down some footage for this episode that wasn't previously online and we'll make that available for everybody, the Mitch Dokupro, you can excursion the one hour comp tapes that was there and then we've got two episodes of Mitch Dokupro TV to talk about as well, but
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited again.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is sort of I would imagine the guys that do the R or H years podcast felt this way when they got into 2006 and 2007.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is like I said, R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R
[SPEAKER_02]: My reason for doing this podcast was I wanted to tell the story of Mitch Doku pro outside of 1996, and that is still the overarching goal here, and I'm very proud of those early episodes, you know, talking about the foundation of information of Mitch Doku pro and how we got here, but also, just as somebody that has watched a lot of the footage that's available from this year, now there were in 1996, I am quite excited to dive into it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, absolutely need to and I think that before we get into 1996 proper, we got to close out 1995 and talk about the awards and our picks from at least for Mitch and Oak is 1995 and with that case we go straight to the observer in 1996
[SPEAKER_02]: We do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to put a bow on 1995 here before I break down where Mitch Knuckle Pro and the wrestlers fair and the observer awards.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do want to ask you just your overarching thoughts on 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is one of those years where, you know, if 93 is defined by
[SPEAKER_02]: The beginning and the car park show and Delphine versus Sasuke in that feud in 1994 is this mainstream a Surgeance of great Sasuke because of the J-cup in a way that nobody could have possibly predicted and you know the year Andj with Sasuke versus O'Nita and Sasuke versus Taka 1995 feels a little bit like the lost year in the early years of Mitch Doku Right at least that's the way that I approached it going into it having now washed all of the footage that is available
[SPEAKER_02]: How would you describe 1995?
[SPEAKER_02]: How would you define 1995?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did your view of that year change it all after watching everything in chronological order for this podcast?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I thought 1995 was going to be a growing pain kind of year just because of the peak that at least if you look at Sasuke in his 1994, I mean, we talked in depth about how it's
[SPEAKER_00]: and I feel like that really bolstered the 1994-1995, I figure the the paratroopers in Zasinushaki and how that everything really kicked off in 96, but of course with like Phukoman and Dose Care is coming in, I did know that there was still meat on the bone there, but
[SPEAKER_00]: after going through 1995, and as we now are able to look back on it, I think 1995 turns into the story of Plan B's, essentially, because at least when I was constructing like who my wrestlers of Machinogus year were in 1995 and of the matches of it, and you compare it to
[SPEAKER_00]: that this is a year that there's virtually no sato, you do have the win over dolphin, but he's essentially out of the picture of the entire year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Delfin is a bigger discussion point of his output.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does 1995 become when sato goes out there and then essentially
[SPEAKER_00]: what do they do?
[SPEAKER_00]: It becomes really a conversation of how they've started to really flesh out the remainder of the roster.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that 1995 becomes, in a lot of ways, the year of Taka mentioned Oku.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Grand Nanoa has an incredible 1995.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whereas 1994 you have all of those
[SPEAKER_00]: dolphin and you do get a little bit of that in 1995.
[SPEAKER_00]: The year ultimately kind of results into okay, optioning away from that who are the people who are really making the steps forward since those guys who really were the the young rookies in 1993 and people like Taka.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have the same takeaway.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a year where Taka, I think goes from bubbling under the surface to being a legitimately great wrestler and that is represented to some degree in the observer awards.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a year where Hoshikawa takes a giant step forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: You see from Naki make his presence fell on these cards.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have the convict to all rave about again here and then at the end of the year you get the.
[SPEAKER_02]: Inclusion edition of Tiger mask on the roster and before you know it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean 1994 is a pretty top heavy promotion.
[SPEAKER_02]: It shanzaki.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Delphine at Sasuke.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're lucky you get some big Sato matches on tape.
[SPEAKER_02]: But by 95.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a card that has a lot of.
[SPEAKER_02]: young, exciting wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you not only have the continued Daredevil antics of Sasuke, which are prevalent in January of 1996, as we will discuss, you know, that sort of stuff is still the hallmark of the promotion.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I really like is, this sort of lightweight, Bantomweight style wrestling that begins to form here in 1995 with Taka and with Hoshikawa.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was some of the stuff that Nana was doing with some of the stuff that Funaki is doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: very much of a time and ninety five but that time is a good time where you're seeing now not only the foundation of home out as universal training that went on there but now you're starting to see you know these guys partner up with progressing food to our goofy and then later battle arts and
[SPEAKER_02]: and you start to see the sort of really advanced grappling also make its way into Mitch Doku pro.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what that's one of the things that as we go along here, especially as we remove ourselves from 96, remove ourselves from 97, and especially once you see clientile of the progen.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm really curious about is
[SPEAKER_02]: Did they try and fail with Hoshikawa?
[SPEAKER_02]: Was Hoshikawa not a guy that could carry a promotion?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, what's to deal with Yaku Shiji in terms of his star power?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's all these things that I'm trying to figure out because as you sit here in 1995, for what the promotion is and with the roster, the size of this, it actually is a promotion that has pretty deep depth at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm flipping through my notes for our 1995 and you even go to positions where like people like Yocca Cigi who I mean he is like one of the favorites that like 1996 if we're talking about things that I'm really going to be paying attention to over the next six episodes it's going to be like okay 1990
[SPEAKER_00]: five was the year that Taka and Hoshikawa really took that step forward and that they weren't either being the lost post and Taka's, the lost post piranha and Taka's case or essentially doing undercard duty or being tethered to Wellington Wilkins, like 1995 was their chance to make that step in 1996.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm looking for for Yakuciji, but I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: even like looking at like the front of the card here and looking at June 17, 1995, the Chuchunga Chukaku 1995 show from Fukushima, Yaku Shiji versus Halisman, I have that like 3.5 stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like an opener.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that's something that's not happening in 1994, that's something that nothing even comes close to in 1993.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what you see here is that now you really have this core of about 12 guys on this roster.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's even moments from like people like Yona Ginchin that I feel like that he has that niche and it's like now I feel like in 1995 is sometimes the best examples of that niche and then you look at
[SPEAKER_00]: the bottom in there and it's really kind of interesting to see like the people like Nano was 1995 considering that Nano was 17 and 18 across this year is like case it's insane the the huge step forward that he makes in this year considering his age and
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just say it just like right here, I think that he has one of what I think will be one of the top five matches throughout the history of the promotion coming out this year and he's having this in 1995 at NS17 and 18 year old year.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you compare it to Torium on the store that's always told, and it's the correct story to tell is that you have your first tour in January and February of 99, they come back in April, they have their shows in June and July that build up to the first Kobe world.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that is a promotion that at that point is entirely dominated by either a what crazy max is doing or b what Magnum Tokyo is doing and so it's still just that first class of students that are really dominating and you have.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, friends of all to my drag and I'm in Grand Hamada being one of them filling out those cards, especially on those big shows in September of 1999 that September 14 1999 show.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have the opening match with Ganky Horguchi and Cecilia Koska and that's the first time that Torium on is sort of put on the map as oh there's there's something else happening here this roster actually is not just shema it's not just Magnum like all of these kids seem like they can go and it's interesting that we don't really have that in Mitch and Oakwell and I'm looking here.
[SPEAKER_02]: At my, at my big, midshadoku spreadsheet, which I guess I should probably put in the discord because there's a lot of match recommendations on this thing, but there's just not a lot like you said of
[SPEAKER_02]: three and a quarter, but really exciting or three and a half star and over delivering or three and three quarters and almost great sort of undercard matches in this promotion, not really until you get to 95 when I'm looking here at, you know, my 1993 match guide.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Sato and Delphin and Sasuke and Shanzaki and a 1994.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Sato and Delphin and Sasuke and Shanzaki and then towards the end of the year, kind
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's really kind of this year, I don't look at it as this step back here because the more you kind of get into it, the more you're like.
[SPEAKER_00]: The big takeaway I actually kind of have in the big question that I have coming on 1995 case, and this is a pure hyperthetical, what would we be saying about 1995 if Taka was given a one-off gimmick and let to be in the Fukuman maskally, and considering we don't get essentially one whole episode of Taka on this program.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't get a whole episode,
[SPEAKER_00]: of Terry boy either, just like imagine like what talk of what he does in 1995, if you were able to add in a good focus in the Masksley with to it as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a great point, you know, I talk on the Masksley, I think it would have been interesting, and Tiger Masksley to his debut in that Masksley, we don't really get that, and so don't really get the tag league, which we would have gotten a lot of dream chaser stew for
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I really like that 1995 tag league field.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me see you just real quick if I can pull that up because that was one by Cato Cungley and great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Saskia, we talked about that last week in the Nanoa, Delphin, Nakajima Hoshikawa, Funaki Takah and the convict in Yone again, which I would imagine those matches would be pretty weak.
[SPEAKER_02]: But nevertheless, the other teams of that tournament are pretty solid.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should tell you now, Mike, I'm mulling over the idea of our next episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: covering with footage, because as I do a quick search, I see that it's available.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Yone Gengin in CMLL excursion in the spring of 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: We might, we might have to watch that too.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's two, there's a CMLL Welterweight title tournament match, which we will talk
[SPEAKER_02]: This episode, especially the next episode, actually got a lot about the CMLL Walterweight title.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a C-Clon Ramirez versus Yona Gage and Match.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there is a 26-minute YouTube video, Trio's Match of America, Rocco, Asteroid Jr and Yona Gage versus C-Clon Ramirez, Elju Steroo and Olympus.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just feel like
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we might have to watch those.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that if we're going to give an accurate portrayal of the rise and fall of Mitch and Okupro, we have to talk about, you know, a Gengen CMLL looks very good because I mean, that that's,
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that kind of, like, you say that, uh, Genshin in a super boy or slash the convict might have been like the weaker team or those been tougher matches, I think I would have, I love to see those because I feel like you get Genshin away from Wilkins and maybe, yeah, the times that we got to see that a little bit in 1995, he, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
[SPEAKER_00]: I have some time that I would want to kind of give it a fair shot there because maybe you're an agent just because he's always stuck doing the welcomes brawls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he is the secret mad genius that comes alive and see me all out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess I can't rule that out because two episodes from now will have to talk about Sasuke going back to CMLL this time with Tiger Mask.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's two, there's two Sasuke matches that will have to cover.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a, there's a six main with Sasuke Tiger Mask in Atlantis versus Negro Cases Dr. Ragnar Jr. at L.C.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tantico.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the next night they do Sasuke versus Negro Cases in a singles match.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll cover those absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if we're going to cover Sasuke and CMLL, we'd be foolish not to cover Yona Genshin and CMLL.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I said, Joe, we were in 1993 and Sato de Togo was going back and forth between Mexico and Japan and working all those UWA shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, God, I wish we had that footage because we would have really sunk our teeth into those, but we just, we didn't get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of feel like to make up for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to do the Yona Genshin stuff here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we already have him doing commercials for Mitchen Okupro in 1995.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like I think we need to get into like a deeper understanding of this like I'm not saying we need to go and then.
[SPEAKER_00]: watch all the Wilkins matches he has with after this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least for this, I think that this is maybe like we're giving him an opinion study here and maybe he knocks it out of the park and we're like, okay, Yona, Genshin, welcome to the Good Boys Club with everyone else, or at this point we can know to basically not waste our time with them from now on.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm adding this to the episode 14 notes as we will talk about great matches such as the great Sasuke versus you shouldn't thunderleggar and the formation of Kianti DX will also talk about you in a Gingenian CMLL.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have that to look forward to the next time on those days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about these 1995 observer awards.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I'll do here is I'm going to go through category by category any time that a Mitch Doku pro wrestler placed in one of these categories.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then before I get your thoughts, why, let's go one category at a time because there's a larger point that I want to make.
[SPEAKER_02]: But best flying wrestler is the first time that we see Mitch Doku pop up here.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is won by Ray Mysterio Jr.
[SPEAKER_02]: Second place, great Sasuke, and then followed by Sabu, Monami Toyota, Psychosis, your top five.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hiobusa finishes Sabu, Juicent Thunderleggar, eighth, and an honorable mention for Altsbo Dragon, just to name a few.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think about 1995, that is the rapid growth of AAA and the real formative year for a mysterious junior?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's impressive that Sasuke finished.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had of Sabu, when I had of Toyota, and that feels like a very fair award, it's a very fair second place for Sasuke.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, especially when you consider the rest of the field, there are ligars out for a lot of 95, uh, Otani is like, it's like, it's like starting to scrap up there and like the fact that at least, uh, do we know if this was three, two, one or like, five, three, one or top five for this because Sasuke only has 11 first place votes, based still finishes second and that out of the people who all receive first place votes, which is,
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone on that list other than two-fold Scorpio, Sasuke has the third least other than Liker and Otani.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sasuke is virtually everyone's number two is my guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like a balladding that Ray won Sasuke two and then whoever else number three.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I think if you look like at the point difference, I mean, he has double Sabu and Monami Toyota's.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's kind of how that has to go when you look at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: most underrated that year it was won by skip of the wf second place al snow third place team of lanko fourth place to kashi azuka fifth place ha kushi which will get to him a little bit more later in this episode and then an honorable mention for taka machinoku which i think is interesting that by 95 you are not alone in your thought of like yeah you know kind of wish taka had a little bit more to do the observer readers would agree with you as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the ball-knowers knew about Taka in 95.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do love the fact for skip.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, all right, it's nice to see Candido make that list.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget that sometimes Chris Candido and his career and then Azuka before he went insane like being like the tag team partner that went to WCW against the diners.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think was that in 95?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's a really interesting list that going over these maybe kind of want to figure out something to do with these old ones or rewards, because like the Honorable mentions here, it's Huvie, John Parallel-Fate, Tom Prichard, Philino, Chris Jericho, talking about Chidoku, John and he bad Steve Rigo, Dilo Brown, that's just a really interesting collection of names for most underrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because like 95 Dilo Brown was just like working Jersey, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was maybe the dying days of Spoky Mountain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, because like geez, we're like getting to the point of reckless youth being a constant fixture looking at this and then like at Jerry Lynn making this list like someone that I'll be talking about a lot when we get to our own picks for this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Reader's personal favorite rest of this was one by Minami Toyota.
[SPEAKER_02]: A second place shot Michael's third place for a mysterious junior notable finish for Sabu and seventh and then your honorable mentions include Juicens Thunder Liger with 20 points Brett Hart with 15 Alcino with 14 Sandman with 9 and the great Sasuke with 9.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you still see despite Sasuke not really placing in and flared Thursdays this year, most outstanding this year, still an honorable mention.
[SPEAKER_02]: and readers say a wrestler I will continue to best gimmick and then get your thoughts on both of these Mike best gimmick talk about aging poorly 1995 best gimmick winner disco in Ferno Raven Undertaker gold dust El Santo Negro your top five, but we mentioned this because super delphin finishes as an honorable mention with 13 points which I thought was really interesting because I think
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think 1994, Delfin is incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it really doing the best version of Lutheran's Ric Flair, and you still get like the tailwind of it 1995, but he's just, but like one of like the C stories or D stories if we're talking about 1995 is really like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we talked about how in 93.94, like you were basically focusing on Sasuke, Shinzaki, Delphin, or Sato, but Delphin didn't go anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Delphin's all over 1995.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just like being frank, like he's at a point where he's just either being laughed by people like Taco or Ginkotta, but people like Taco.
[SPEAKER_00]: or it's just like him having a very, like he, his story line is not happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Delphin is just kind of a long for the right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's just a wild kind of thing with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget who was El Santo Negro?
[SPEAKER_02]: What a great question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should know that I'll stop my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't, I don't know if they're just referring to the Santo.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll turn here or if they're referring to.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's Santo Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sponsor Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then no, that makes sense here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then readers personal favorite here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean when you like think about like the tape trader thing like other in Sasuke having like the tournament and then we talked about the quote from Jeff Lynch about how that wasn't necessarily like the kind of mover like Sasuke not being on Jacob probably knocked him out of this top 10 list.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I hadn't really put much thought into El Santo Negro finishing fifth, and he would have been wrestling as Pentagon for AAA in 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: If one of the smart lucha people are listening to this podcast, if you could tweet at us and sort of explain why he might have done so well in the voting, I would really like to know because he doesn't
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he works 40 matches for AAA in 1995, which I guess if, you know, all of those were on TV, that's a pretty full schedule, but this does feel like it hit a blind spot for me where I have no idea why or how he could have finished that that well, because it's not, it's not a run that I have any knowledge of.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that again, that would have been pentagon in 1995, AAA.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to know more about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that one just raised my eyebrow when I saw that when you when you read that off was like, okay, El Santo Negro, I'm not familiar with that and then and I knew 95 for AAA with that, but yeah, no, that's that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, yeah, no, this is I'm going to have to dive in here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Looks like there's a TV match.
[SPEAKER_02]: March 2nd, 1995, Eddie Guerrero, El Santo Negro, and Psychosis, versus El Hiel, Del Santo, La Parca, and Octagon, that at the very least seems like something I would like to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if any, if any smart, lucha people are listening and they would like to explain that, please do, because I'm now very intrigued.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that bring us to the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: of Mitch Joku Pro is placing in the 1995 Observer Award.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, best flying wrestler, most underrated readers personal favorite wrestler, best gimmick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the awards that are represented by Mitch Joku Pro.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just as a reminder, 1994,
[SPEAKER_02]: Sasuke finishes an honorable mention in Flare Thes.
[SPEAKER_02]: He finished number four in most outstanding.
[SPEAKER_02]: He won best flying wrestler.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sasuke versus Wild Pegasus was number three and matched the year that year with Sasuke versus Shinzaki and Sasuke versus Liger finishing as honorable mentions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sasuke won best move and he finishes an honorable mention again for readers' favorite wrestler.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think just by proxy of
[SPEAKER_02]: As we've sort of talked about, the visibility of the J-cup in what that did for 1994, Machinoco compared to 1995, where they're not partnering with New Japan, and the master league sort of gaining traction as time goes on, it just seems like it's almost it's almost one of those things where you know, Dave is on the Tory Mon beat in 2001 and by 2003's hardly covering the promotion and you see it reflected in the awards that year.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think 1994 to 1995, Machinoco pro is the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think you see kind of like the notable difference now, the 1995 when like they are still kind of covered at a level, but it's not to the level 1994 and then we'll see as 1996 how they're covered in their kind of peak year for them, but case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's talk about our takeaways from 1995, a real interesting kind of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think like, how do you want to go about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we have our three personal wrestlers here in three matches of the year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me your three matches, three to one, and then we'll do wrestlers in the same order after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious to see if ours are going to be the exact same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so my match three is the title match of Sato versus Delphin match.
[SPEAKER_00]: My number two match is the Fukuman Masculi Final Saka versus Carrus number two.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my match of the year was the Fukuman Loser's match, Mascaro Contra Mascaro Grand Nanowal versus Golgotha Cross.
[SPEAKER_02]: very interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I only have one of those matches.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of my matches are from the same tour, which I found to be funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: My number three match would be Sasuke versus Delphum from August 12, 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: My number two match would be Sasuke versus the convict from August 13, 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my match there would be Cross versus Nannawa from August 25, 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: As it stands right now, that Cross
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mitch Doku pro history behind the six-man tag at Cork and Hall from February of 1994, which I know I like much more than you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd say Nenawa and Goldgotha would be behind Shinzaki and Terry Boy for me for like my top matches at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that your top pick through 1995?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, that match left a mark on me that nothing so far has like replicates, and I've gone back like sense and have already watched that match.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's something very primal about that match at Mochland.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like that that level of promality may be not necessarily there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they know what versus Golgotha.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just to me, it was maybe just like a shocking, really great performance from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in an tournament where it kind of came out that he had at least for me a lot better performances than someone like dolphin who should have been in a position to, you know, come out as the number two, the Mitch and Oku side and that's not how Fuqua man kind of played out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would agree with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's a, that's a very fair assessment there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me your wrestlers of 1995 three to one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So number three is Grand Nanowal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, he really just comes alive in the league, and especially also with the matcha Sasuke.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought was remarkable from him as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number two is Sakamachanoku.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there is a real possibility that if someone who was going to the shows and especially got to see the futari tag league,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance that Taka Machinoku should be number one, but we just don't have the ability to say that with the footage that is on tape.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then number one is Sasuke.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Sasuke, given the fact that they had to audible out of a year though, really felt like it was going to be about Sato and the rise of Kai and Tai.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the person that they kind of relied on to get them through that and the most consistent performer throughout the year ends up being the great Sasuke for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So number three, Granddad and I'll all number two, talk a much noku and my rest are the year for a much noku pro in 1995 is the great Sasuke.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have the same order.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought I might be able to sneak one pass you with not a lot three, but as soon as you started talking about them on this podcast, I realized that you were going to have them in that spot as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's not only the great performance of the mass league, it is, you know, a match like Sasuke and Hoshikawa versus Nanoan Taka from May 14th and then that tagly finals where he is so great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sasuke and Kato Kung Lee versus Nanoan Delphin.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really impressive year for nono.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is maybe my biggest takeaway from 1995 is just how good and how important he was in that year and that is certainly not something that I had correlation with as we began watching this 1995 footage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it really, the the person you kind of look at when you look at these list is the fact that we barely mentioned dolphin at all whatsoever and I think that's that really might be the underlying story of 95 and especially as we turned to 96 especially given what will go on in 1996 for dolphin I am really looking to see this guy's going to have that bounce back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to 1996, we go, Mitch Doku pro begins their 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go to the observer, this is on January 2nd.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just have this note here because I like that now we're at a point where we can start to see patterns in the Mitch Doku pro schedule on the same way that we now have patterns in the Dringy schedule.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we know that going forward, they're going to do a big show with a
[SPEAKER_02]: In January, they'll take their winter break, they'll come back with a big show in Osaka in March, likely headline by a big Delphan match, and that's the exact timeline we're covering here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I just have the stove from the Observer on January 2nd, that says Mitch Joku Pro is a show on 1-10.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the Seporo Nakajima Sports Center, headlined by Great Sasuke and Giant Zebra, who is Kigitikano versus Mr. Pogo and Grandnanawa, and Dave also noticed that Battle Arts,
[SPEAKER_02]: works under a hood as the Kawakaze teaming with Tiger Mask, again, show each Yufunaki and Taka Mitsidoko, and then also this note from the next week, in which Dave notes that in 1995, Mitsidoko Pro increased their house shows from 121 to 1994 to 134 and 1995, with an increased average attendance of 908 to 934, which is 2.9% growth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we think about Sasuke's source, looking for the 500 attendance they have now really have boosted from it, but it is something where I think you look at the shows like Seporo, Osaka, the Otasusho's and then the bigger shows into Hoku are the ones that are kind of bolstering it up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine if we took the data and looked a little bit more into the median and where things go on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a boost here, and we're seeing 94 in the 95, even with the losses of Sato and Shinzaki that the promotion still shows a level of growth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when you look at the rest of the landscape in 96, and more and more kind of endies and especially how the Japanese wrestling landscape has drastically changed since 92, the fact that they're still
[SPEAKER_00]: growing in and they go from 121 shows 134 at with their kind of tourist schedule is really or markable for what they manage accomplished in 95.
[SPEAKER_02]: I completely agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: A very very enjoyable year and that brings us to the first show of 1996 and Mike I normally throw it to you for these matches and I will in just a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just have to know it's so great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Mr. Kupro, they run a New Year's day show in 1996, which unfortunately we don't get because the main event was Nana what Delphan and Taka versus Hoshikalisoski and Tiger Mask, which I would have really liked to have seen, but we go to this one ten show in
[SPEAKER_02]: In your opening match, is Sato and Terry Boy versus Masato, Yuckishigi and Norio Hoshkawa.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Sato's return from injury.
[SPEAKER_02]: First match, he's wrestled since May and Mike, there's just something so warm and so inviting in so right.
[SPEAKER_02]: about ensuring 1996 Michitoku Pro and the first match on tape of the year has Sato Dictogo Emosato Yakashiji in the ring together.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just it just warmed my heart to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get to see a Yakuji just be a rag doll and some of the like more brutal and kind of fascinating ways it on this you essentially get four out of the five matches on the show on this tape here but it's
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they had the bad knee injury and I've of course seen enough sato in in 96 and no a dictator in this but he comes back and he looks awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is a local for five awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: He looks so good at this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, like it's not that we need everyone on gear.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just need to bring back the muscle guts and we have that on kind of full display and I like the level of seriousness like we got this and joined in progress.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could we get two minutes out of like essentially the eight minutes and we get on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a kind of when with the slam and top rope cent on
[SPEAKER_00]: But the level of seriousness that we've seen from Kai and Tai towards the undercard, Saki gun members, given how the note that Kai and Tai kind of left us in last April, 95.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sato turning in Terry kind of being along for the ride and Cheerio, not necessarily at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the kind tie in 1995 might not have a wrestle of this match with the level of fierceness towards Seki gun that they would have that they had in 1996.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's nice to kind of see that pick up all on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is just a sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the interesting part of doing a rewatch project where sometimes you just have immediate confirmation bias on what you're watching and again, it's, you know, Sato and Yakashiji in the ring.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really strong Terry boy match.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought the way that Terry boy was throwing around Yakashiji was really interesting because you would expect that from Dictogo, but you get it from Terry boy as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just, it's just an awesome way to start the year.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the type of wrestling that
[SPEAKER_02]: you and I, there's a reason we're doing this podcast, it's because of matches like this, even if it's a short two-minute snippet of an eight-minute match.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we continue on with the Kintai's backstage, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sato's back is a big bad man and we cut to a kind of joint in progress of
[SPEAKER_00]: Shoichi Finaki and Takamachinoku did dream chasers going up against Kamakaze Yuki Shikawa and tiger mask for and a really this one too punch was at a like to kind of have on the show because you had kind of their minders of some of the best stuff from 1994 immediately with the best
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, talk as taking the the year and the bull by the horns immediately like this is the stuff pile driver into running kick towards the a brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it's so funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny that talking from not to use a spike pile driver as a transition move.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just like a thing they do in the middle of the batch and I think it rocks actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there's something about
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, other than itchakawa kind of not wrestling as itchakawa here and kind of doing like a vaguely great mudo like kind of gimmick here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that it was a kind of a nice little touch with him and tiger mask and kind of being the backup here for tiger mask who is still having
[SPEAKER_02]: It made me wonder what Mitch Joku Pro would look like if we had more of Yuki Shikawa working under this gimmick because, you know, he's going to pop up quite a bit, not in 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if we get him on tape any more throughout the year.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, so we get
[SPEAKER_02]: He's on, okay, so we get him two more times.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's on the these days shows in October and then he's on the very last show of the year, which is like a battle arts bitch, Joker Pro hybrid show.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, he's around in 97 and 98 and 99, but he's around as you can each cow which depending on what day you ask me, that's either a good or a bad thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the comma, comma, as a character, I, you know, I don't know if it would work in this promotion full time, but it kind of works against Funaki and Taka in particular.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the finish is the kamikaze hold, which is this roll through dragon sleeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks absolutely kind of brutal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially like given the fact that like we end with Tiger mask for being able not to be on the level of talk up, but
[SPEAKER_00]: on the right day being able to take him out.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets a when to kind of kick off a 1996 and interesting thing that I noticed in this match and not in the Kai and Ty Versuski gun matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: Case, this is a rare, a rarety machinoku pro.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a show that actually has mats at ringside.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hadn't even thought about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the is kind of like peaked out without there, but well, it's a big venue.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is a, this is as professional as Mitch Doke Pro gets outside of running like sumo hall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we should say that the attendance is announced at 5,078 with us show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Giant zebra, giant draw.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to note real quick, you know, we talked a lot about talk and look as we get in the 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only going to be a greater recession for us, but I feel like
[SPEAKER_02]: for all of the little things, all of the fundamentals that I feel are missing from modern-day progress, and that's something that I've talked about at length on various podcasts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think there's been a collective effort over the last year for people to tighten up.
[SPEAKER_02]: their tope suicitas in their springboards a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do feel like we were going through a phase in wrestling where all of the dives, well, they might have looked visually impressive, looked really light and I think people are now sort of gravitating towards these like suicide bomber, ask to pay suicitas that work in a real way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do as younger wrestlers,
[SPEAKER_02]: would look at what Taka does on his springboard drop kicks where he is throwing them and I say this is a compliment so recklessly and so violently and it looks really real when Taka does a springboard drop kick and it's it's maybe it's just specific to that move and the way that you can set it up in so many different ways but
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel like we have any springboard moves, especially springboard moves inside the ring and wrestling right now that feel like that, that look as violent as that, or like it's done with a purpose.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the type of thing that wrestlers should be able to steal and take as their own.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just sort of wish they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I feel like the thing that takes you really a back with Taka, it's, it gives you this feeling of force and propulsion in his springboard.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think you see very many people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Tiger Mass is like the perfect kind of person that he goes up against in this because Tiger Mass is someone who's able to in 1996, almost go clear or diagonally cross the ring on a flying head,
[SPEAKER_00]: it is something like on this roster that I don't know if it's if it's a part of the magic or if it's the fact that maybe they tighten their ropes a certain way that lets them kind of get that sense of slingshot effect or talk is just really good at that kind of a physical emotion but it is really remarkable say because he does it also with like his flying forearm
[SPEAKER_00]: feel like there's a level of malevolence with that, that you don't, other that is absent as you're saying in 2020, 6.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very much so I think that's well said.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we jump into a really joined in super progress.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a match that goes 16 minutes, but we only get stuff starting from right before the 10 minute markets, super dolphin versus
[SPEAKER_00]: going for the mask at a level that we haven't seen in a while from our resident kind of mask hunter here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to tear off all the fuzz from sheerious mask.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wins with the swing DDT and a dolphin clutch, but a real kind of baby face performance from sheer you and dolphin kind of not necessarily turning on the ringwork, but he's able at least doing like the
[SPEAKER_00]: big territory heel may not think kind of thing that you would hope for in this kind of scenario.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not him looking for a match of the year but him playing towards the crowd in a way that I don't feel like you got a lot of the 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: You noticed Delton did the rainy savage elbow drop in the patch?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, and it looks so brutal.
[SPEAKER_02]: How he just did, it was just a funny, like, you know, we've watched a lot of Delphine footage in the last year, year and a half, it's like, oh, that's he hasn't done that ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really weird that he did the macho man taunt and elbow drop off the top rope at this match.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is I.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a TV style, Mr. Kupro Mash, my big note on this is not really anything that happened in the ring.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just as we again, look at footage from 1996 compared to 2026, I just think wrestling would be better off.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is for Japan, Mexico and the United States if wrestling.
[SPEAKER_02]: visually look like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is Delphin and Delphin's gear.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sure you and his updated 1996 gear.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just a little confused as to what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if this is just the decline of.
[SPEAKER_02]: trade workers and like hands-on skills and so-and-quality going down, which is something I think about cobblers a lot and how you know at some point we'll just live in a world with out-collars.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just won't be able to repair a shoe.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just have to always get new shoes.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have an, I can give you a cure for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bootmakers still will exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, but I think about like those some of those trade skills were just like sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we're going to be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good to hear because I just I think we're one generation away from losing a lot of those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe just because when I first moved to Chicago, I was living like very close to a shoe repair place that I never saw anybody in and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: like they're like they've probably that's probably a family business has been around for a hundred years you know his father and his father's father and his father's father's father they all repair shoes but his kid is going to be a fortnight streamer you know we're just we're going to lose so I don't know and I guess I should ask wrestlers like
[SPEAKER_02]: especially guys that have been around for 20 years or so.
[SPEAKER_02]: If the quality of gear making has gone down, I would think with the way that athletic wear has improved, that gear would only get better.
[SPEAKER_02]: But God, you look around and outside of some of your top-of-the-line CMLL guys, like, I don't know most gear sucks now, and nobody looks this cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a problem with wrestling is that nobody looks this cool anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think like I don't know enough about the mask and gear trade.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrestling boots is something I have openly kind of wondered about just because of the rise of kick pads and wrestling shoes, and instead of wrestling boots, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like in at least the starting like the late 2000s, maybe a little bit for earlier, like the rise of people just doing the boots and the kick pads, and that being like a predominant indie style was like the wrestling tray thing that I do wonder
[SPEAKER_00]: I do know that there's the tree brand that I was always with dragon gate guys and that I know that that's like a shoe maker.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever get if they are co-operate, but they make rustling boots.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want about boots more so than a mask sinkier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I imagine gear wise and especially like this, like people picking up masking gear as like a side hustle and like as an indie worker still being like a way that those kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really, I'm really curious about that, but just whenever because at my point is always because I like this guy so much, but like when I see Lee Moriarty wrestle is like, I don't know, I don't know if that guy's made For his handsome and as built as he is, I don't know if Lee Moriarty is that look is made to be a national TV, but if you put Lee Moriarty and Super Delphans gear, all of a sudden, I'm like, okay, so that's a super star and like to see more of that guy, but nobody really, nobody really looks like that right now, and I think that's a real problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, uh, Masada Yoshino's only person is who should have the single straps down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's also kind of a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That could be it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then we had the main event of this show in Sapporo.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the great Sasuke with Giant Zebra AKA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Soon, Gicotano and a full Zebra costume versus Grand Nanoa and the at least for one night Delphan Core affiliate, Mr. Pogo.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a new kind of passion of Sasuke match where this time we got to have
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like for one of like the real like first time since the dolphin few people going for Sasuke's mask like the way that Mr. Pogo did throughout this match.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to make a statement that might seem very odd to you, but I have this misnook.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have this misnook approach match guide spreadsheet.
[SPEAKER_02]: That again, I should probably put in the discord at this point, but I have
[SPEAKER_02]: matches roughly in the three and a half star range and up that are logged on this by year and then separate tabs for what I would call good, which are three and a half and three and three quarter star matches, great matches, which are four and four and a quarter star matches and essential matches, which are four and a half in above.
[SPEAKER_02]: And right now as we enter 1996,
[SPEAKER_02]: There's three matches in the Essentials tab.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the aforementioned Mitch Doku pro six-man at Quark and Hall, Satoshiri and Sasuke versus Nana Washington, Zaki and Delphin.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the Gorgon Cross versus Grand Nondalov match from August of 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I also have a match in there in the Essential tab that I have is non-rating in R. And that is O'Nita versus Sasuke from October 30th, 1994.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like to fully understand Mitch Doku pro, you
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of half-to-watch, you'll need to versus Sasuke, even if the match is a little bit of a mess, it is just one of those, it is essential viewing by definition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you had to see Delphine and his helicopter come in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I-
[SPEAKER_02]: and mulling over the idea of putting giant zebra in the great saucecaverses.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great not a lot of Mr. Pogo in the essentials category.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe how violent this match was.
[SPEAKER_02]: The spot where Sasuke gets tied to the ropes and then Mr. Pogo blows a fireball into his face.
[SPEAKER_02]: is so truly insane to a point that Sasuke runs out of the arena and falls face down into the snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that fireball cell, ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's on.
[SPEAKER_02]: fucking believable, and then the crazy thing is, and this is both part of the charm of the match and element, a tremendous detractor of the match, is that Sasuke, once he does that, he's back in the ring wrestling, and not really selling that his face almost got melted off, he's kind of just wrestling as Sasuke at that point, but the match continues, and then Sasuke
[SPEAKER_02]: with one of the biggest fireballs I've ever seen for Mr. Pogo and then Pogo hangs nono all over the ropes with the chain and the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: is not great by any sort of in-ring the way we look at work rate definition.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even sure it's good at points, but it is one of the few times during this series as we watch all this footage that my jaw has truly dropped.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the athleticism of the six-man tag, at the spectacle of O'Neativer's and Sasuke, at the violence of Cross-Vers' Nannawa,
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of feel like this belongs in that category.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe we don't see gifts of this match all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's...
[SPEAKER_00]: It is like, okay, both Nanoa and Sasuke, they knew what they signed up for, and they're like, okay, I'm doing a Mr. Poco match.
[SPEAKER_00]: So bringing that sickle out, carve me up.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna do fireballs.
[SPEAKER_00]: The footage of them in the snow afterwards is wild enough itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all the while,
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, giant zebra is just lumbering around.
[SPEAKER_00]: He, it is just kind of comedical, just like the the fact they put him in a full on like zebra suit and he's dragging around man, a wall with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, so it's a DQ, a Pogo gets DQ for that giant fucking fireball that is used as a way to break up the three count after a thunder fire power bomb and then yeah, no, Pogo just loses his damn mind and it's a kind of just a remarkable kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for like,
[SPEAKER_00]: To understand the great Sasuke, you have to watch matches like this because it's a different kind of Sasuke and it is just like the fact that 1996 is probably going to be his most physically damaging year that we will be talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it starts off with him eating two huge fireballs and getting carved up by Mr. Pogo.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's completely insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really, I was really entertained by this match.
[SPEAKER_02]: It sort of felt like the best version of, maybe Zandig era CZW, where you don't, oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What you're watching isn't good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't really like it, but you also can't look away.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's different than Saské version of Nita, where you're seeing two legitimate masters of their craft,
[SPEAKER_02]: who are, you know, by October of 1994, both of them are physically depleted in many ways, but they're doing what they can to have a great match.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not that, but this is something insane in and of itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know who, if time frames lined up, they would have made a whole lot of sense in this promotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mr. and Sanity Toby Klein and Madman Pondo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I guess we didn't miss out on Madman Pondo and Mr. Kupro.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've truly never thought about that before.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what's the real actual through line?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is IWA mid-South?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this had like the energy of like not king of the death match, but like some of the other random death match tournaments that E&Rot would put on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like there was like a tag team death match tournament that was not very good, but it was just very, very violent.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it kind of reminded me of like that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, to roommate that our agreement was in that I would get to put on uh, luch arrest tapes and like Chacara like to like, like Chacara tag world grampries as long as afterwards you got to put on like King of the Death match or like Prince of Death match, Sherman.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to consume a lot of that era's death matches.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, there's still, there's that Necrotoby Klein king of the death match where I think oh four, it's the one that's seeing punk is on commentary for that is legitimately incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's just, it's so, so good as like a, like an art form of progress like, but yeah, I mean, it's funny, and I guess this is just the generational difference because like all of those IW women, South guys,
[SPEAKER_02]: we're trying to be like Harley race and chemical Boschie, but I think if I W.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mid-South and that sort of, if there was like a group of guys in the Midwest, I think they'd be trying to do Mitch Doku Pro now and not Harley race, but you had Punk and Kaban and Hero worshiping an entirely different era of wrestling than what's worship now, which I think is both good and bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just kind of fascinating to kind of find that common out here with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm putting this in the Essentials tab.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think to understand that, man, I think you have to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: A giant zebra isn't sane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sonscaze is insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just, this is one of the wildest things I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Pogo just like losing his shit afterwards and like delfing getting in there going like why do you fireball him and then he in response goes like all right time for me to choke out and a wall again it's just a little nile and then you cut back stage and and Sasuke and giant zebra are just doing the standard Mitch and Oku pro sitting on steel chairs backstage promo and
[SPEAKER_00]: You see half of Sasuke's face, all the blood's gone away, and it's just like, very matter of fact about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, yeah, no, this was an experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in an order to understand great Sasuke, you have to have experiences like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave recaps the show in the January 23rd, 1996 of the server, which he says that Mitch Joker pro drew 570 fans support on 110 for a streetfight main event as Giant Zebra, who is a character from the original Tiger Mask cartoon series, and Grace ASCII beat Mr. Pogo and Grananoa.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he also knows, and this is very important going forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the Mitch Noku wrestlers will change their ring names on the next tour, Sato is now Dictogo, Terry Boyz, Men's Teo,
[SPEAKER_02]: Ensure you is now Tokyo, Jen, J.I.N., which does not stick, I don't believe he's ever been referred to as that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think on like one of these tapes, they, they do kind of go over this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a shear you does take a different look as a part of this, but he's still shear you with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But more importantly, so now we are going forward with Togo, M.N.S.
[SPEAKER_00]: Taio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Terry Boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a name, you probably outlived your life a couple of years from longer than we expected, but now it's, it's, they are not fully fledged, kind of deluxe at this point, but we are on that route with now Sato being fully back and back as Dictogo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Battle Arts the promotion debuted in Quarket Hall on January 13th of 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave Wright and I find this to be interesting in the January 2nd observer that Battle Arts is debuting at Quarket Hall using Sasuke and some of the Michitoku guys as the main draw.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will just let that sink in as we talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: should style in the Observer Hall of Fame, but it's placed there as from the beginning, Battle Arts was relying on Mitch Jogapro guys to draw.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we get that Battle Arts show on January 13th, 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: The bummer is that this show makes tape in everything airs with the exception of Delphan and Taka vs Sasuke and Hoshikawa, and I would really like to track that match down, but we just don't seem to have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, uh, a wild show actually for those who are listening to this in a current time, the person who opened that show, Sakashio Kamora in 1996, but yeah, I know we messed this up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hunted down the the champ form and this is the one match that they don't have on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is a bummer.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's on, if there's a full show comp, I'd be interested to find it because also you have the issue that this was Alpha Promotions at one, and this show is Alpha Promotions, and then they became Bell Arts right afterwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of hard to find it because of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting because we talked in the last episode about how there's a Russian called Alpha Parotions that was debuting a Japan by the time they get to that showed Davis purely referring to it as battle art.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know when that change happened, I don't know why that change happened, but Davis referring to it here as Battle Arts in January of 96 as we go along, you know, I don't know if this was something that maybe people that only have sort of a bird's eye view of Mitch Dokupro realized, but
[SPEAKER_02]: Bad lard's a bitch to hook a pro or tied together, at least through the time period that we're going to cover, and in the same way that, you know, once Shinzaki returns to Japan in a 97, 98, 99.
[SPEAKER_02]: is working a lot of FMW and is working a lot of all Japan.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll check in with some of that stuff, but we're not really going to cover that in the same way that we didn't cover a lot of Taka's 1995 working for Wrestling Food Jeward.
[SPEAKER_02]: Goomy.
[SPEAKER_02]: As for the Battle Arch stuff, I mean, look, there's a Mitchell Kupro Battle Arch joint show at the end of 1996 that we'll watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the famed,
[SPEAKER_02]: January 1997, Mitch Dokupro, multi-man match on the Badlar show.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: This will not become a Badlar's podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll check in when it's relevant, but it's not something we're gonna cover a ton.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, the main event has Funakia.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's each Coward Funakia, Versicata, and Asuna, which I actually, with 2026 eyes, wouldn't mind going back and watching that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of the standalone Funakia, Toka Machido, who's stuff in Badlar, it's worth just not gonna cover, just as a note going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, Mitch and Oku Pro kind of goes on a bit of their standard January and two February break except for one big thing, case.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the Mitch and Oku Pro UK excursion that happens on February 5th and February 6th, 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: From a historical standpoint,
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess maybe it's not covered because it's not like there's anything you really have to watch from the footage that we have, but I'm surprised that these shows aren't looked at as a bigger deal because as I racked my brain trying to think about things, you know, all Japan has never run a show in America, new Japan, I mean, they they run a show in Russia,
[SPEAKER_02]: in the late 80s, but like third Italian tours don't happen until the 2000s, and obviously their US stuff doesn't happen until the 2010s, we're still a decade away from all the Draingate stuff in the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know almost 15 years away at this point from Draingate USA, this is probably the first time that a Japanese group ran official shows outside of Japan, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: In less of
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe, I mean, FMW ransom joint shows, right there's that FMW AAA show in Los Angeles, like right around the time of the Riding King, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because I think Dave's writing of those shows is so interesting because it's like, hey, like, O'Neill's going to America, if he can get into Los Angeles, but I don't know, I feel like from a historical standpoint, these shows are kind of a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I'm trying to think of examples that became obvious to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there was any proper UWF shows in England, even though there was all the snake pit and with all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you and maybe see in Hawaii, maybe, because then Boba had like a share in the office there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like always known as like the stop over point and with that like maybe it looked towards like that, but I think that those were all 50th state pro wrestling or AWA, you know, but like that's those were the directions and maybe the other answer would be insane and no keyboard shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: like there's probably like a nokey doing one of his freedom and peace shows, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, we're going to talk in two episodes about, you know, the a nokey piece festival in Los Angeles, but this beats that out just by a few months, but I would have thought because I I it's been so long now.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm misremembering somebody, please correct me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like New Japan had TV and Italy in the 80s, and they got TV back in the 2000s.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the 2000s is when they did those Italy tours.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like there's something about like Fujianami being weirdly famous in Italy in the 80s.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when I went to check to see, like New Japan doesn't run shows there,
[SPEAKER_02]: in the 1980s.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even if these are joint shows with all star wrestling, like I still think, I still think it's a pretty important historical anecdote because it's something that, you know, all Japan has never done and it took a new Japan a long time to do and, you know, dragon-gated in the doing end of it and then, you know, burning out for a number of reasons.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we have at this point that it especially becomes true in 1997, a global interest in
[SPEAKER_02]: which is a very important part of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think you would go and look at like the fact that at least outside of the Luchador's who was mentioned Okupro bringing in in 1995, he had Doctine and CVJ as like people that had like work there with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fact that they they made the title, the British Commonwealth Junior title.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think also makes you wonder a little bit if your eye goes to the maybe they were thinking about like this with this relationship with all star if they were able to kind of look more towards like the wide view and go like maybe like we'll do more stuff within the UK as a release of this because like as like.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got into this, like I always knew a little bit that there was some aspect about Michino Kupro and Europe, but not to the extent of what this was happening in 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, and I don't know if this is something you care about or not, because you and I for all that we have in common, we've listened to very different music, but you imagine how good it must have felt to be in England in 1996 when you're with blur and pulpit oasis and swayed all fire and all cylinders.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would hope that a Sasuke was touring around of the double-decker bus that he's got just the loudest print pop music in his ears.
[SPEAKER_02]: God damn what a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know he probably wasn't because you saw how he dressed up on this comp tape this entire time you know that you know who I would have rather hung out with the tour at hang out with Kai and Tykes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were the ones that seemed like that they would have been the ones that would have stopped over and got like a music maker magazine or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah you know I'm hanging out with Dictogo listening to the Elastico record and just having the time of my life I just got it just
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no, no, I got a, we've got to make my way out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a, I got a mop around Manchester one of these days.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really one of the only things that life I want to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they don't make it to Manchester.
[SPEAKER_00]: They stay around like a certain part of the UK for this tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sasuke, like on this comp tape, it's a lot of them, like outside of the shows, like traveling around the UK, and it's worth noting that, like everyone else is kind of like in sweat suits, and then like they would have, like conso was in a mask, and then not in a mask, and in like a track suit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sasuke dressed the part and he was dry.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like walking around in a suit and carcoat and a scarf the entire time with the mask on looking very unpleased the entire the entire time to be hanging out with Hans O'knockajima and Tiger mask for.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I don't know how you want to tackle this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the full comp team, you know, will make available to the people that listen on the show, to the show, the six man main event on the second night was out there a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the full comp tape was now, this was something that we had to hunt down and thank you to the tape provider that let us in this direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess really the only thing worth talking about to me is the six man tag main event.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, that's not true.
[SPEAKER_02]: The two things I want to talk about
[SPEAKER_02]: working in a way, you know, the easy comparison is always, you know, oh, you shouldn't remind of you of Dictogo because of his build, but when you watch Dictogo in a foreign environment, take to it the way that he did, it was so much like you should wrestle mania weekend last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you get that vibe from him also?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then also Terry like this was a big kind of fish out of water kind of experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when you think about Mitch and Oaku Pro because they were wrestling in those typical like British wrestling rings that looked like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a 12 foot ring.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the ropes weren't good, like they showed them, like trying to do, like guys and stuff and they were very careful about their dives because of like that and it seemed like was only like natural that like when you saw the interspersed clips of like the this stuff on the first night, which was a lot of UK versus Mitch and Oaku pro kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It did not feel good like we had a sit through a Cheerio versus Ricky Knight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ricky Brown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was just like bumping feeding and felt like how a lot of people feel about big daddy like that's how it was kind of working like.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you would see Sato and I'm sorry, I shouldn't call him Sato here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dictogo and Minstaeo versus Robbie Brookside and Rico, the Gladiator, and they work like a natural kind of heel, and it's very much like, oh yeah, of course these two guys, the one that was doing a Terry Funk cosplay and a wrestling genius would understand exactly what to do in this environment.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really, really interesting to watch, especially on that first show that two five show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's, it's a little bit of a mess, but you have this Sato versus Ter, it's Sato and Teri Boy versus Rico the Gladiator and Robby Brookside match, which isn't a very good match by any means, but you just, you're overwhelmed with the presence of Sato
[SPEAKER_02]: in a way that I think is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as would become tradition with Drang in a decade later on that second show, you get Hanzo Nakajima, Great Sasuke, and who was built on this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you noticed this, but they film or key outside of the venue.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Tiger Mask 4 is build as seemingly junior on these shows, which would have been, you know, Samilee would have been Siyama with he worked in the UK, which I thought was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were asked on a six man and get Satoshiryu and Terry Boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave Wright to the observer of 2019-96 that the reports were received from the main event on 26th in Kroyda with Sasuke Tiger Mask and Nakajima Beating Satoshiri on Terry Boy was the best match of the UK and recent memory, and that includes the famous Brett Hart versus Davey Boy Smith match at Wimbley Stadium in 1992.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave continued saying he was told that about 95 percent of the fans had no idea who the Japanese wrestlers were.
[SPEAKER_02]: but they went nuts and gave them a stand-and-go vacation at the end of the show and that they plan on doing a second tour in April, which obviously did not happen, but I found all of that to be fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, no, I thought it was real kind of interesting that like on that two-five show, you got Hanzo Nakagina, who wrestled on
[SPEAKER_00]: On commentary is Sasuke, and I see W, I guess, like the one that I see TV people, Yukimi, Kikuchi, and all they talk about in that match is that they, is that they, because the ring announcer, now it's the son of Samuel Sajama, Tiger Mask, the Tiger, and that's all they talk about on commentary throughout that match.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's something that at least they find very fascinating throughout the tape as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's a really interesting match.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I feel like, I don't know if you gave this a start or any.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I went three and three quarters on it because I do feel like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, because it is, it is, it is a deal where one, I thought it was a really good, good, hot zone, not good team of performance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was really nice to see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is sort of one of those Mitch and Oku matches where the longer it goes in the more moment and they get your like, oh, wow, this, okay, this was kind of going along and then all of a sudden before you know, you're watching a great match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you have like a K-Broad that looks like it killed everyone throughout it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hanzo, like, it seems like that he is like a trusted enough guy to kind of like do these kinds of tours.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's always kind of like that hand that like when they need something that he's the one that kind of stuff up with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess like as a situation that they weren't getting delf and core.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you were getting chianti and it's like, okay, who's the third baby face now?
[SPEAKER_00]: and I guess at this point, it would be Hans O'Neill and he did step up for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really good outing from him.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really fun match.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I think in a very different way than the giant zebra match, it is sort of one of those deals that I think is pretty important to see the first international Mitch Nogapro six-man tag.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I mean, 1996, that's a decade before
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we continue the, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, you go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: We continue the observer, Dave notes that on February 12th, 10th, and a sixth of Mitch Doku pro who usually runs teeny villages will, and the North Eastern part of Japan will run a sock on 315 and Tokyo on 316 for big shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get this very exciting note on 219 that Grand Hamada is going back to Mitch Doku pro as a regular.
[SPEAKER_02]: Starting on March 2nd, so we'll get full Hamata this year, and he also noticed that Blizzard Yuki, the alter ego of Sakhi has to go, will be doing her final match with the gimmick on a Mitch Doke who show on 315, and on that same show, Pantera from EMLL will be brought into defend his UWF, Super Welterweight title against Delphin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Before we break down that show, I do want to note that in the March 11th, 1996 Wrestling Observer Newsletter,
[SPEAKER_02]: We get the announcement that Jinsation Zaki is returning to Japan as Dave Wright's new Japan progress like how to press conference on March 4th, March 4th to officially announce it would be holding its second Tokyo Dome card of the year on April 29th, the show will take place, and the annual Fukuoka Dome show, the show will take place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of the traditional Fukuoka dome show that takes place on the first week of May, the apparent reason for the switches that over the past few years, New Japan has put out why don't so the Fukuoka dome, which is in a much smaller city than Tokyo, far from any other major city in Japan, that would easily sell the Tokyo dome, but a Fukuoka there drawing in the 50,000 range.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he announces that on that show, you will not only get the great Sasuke Versusutions under Liger, but you will get Jensationzaki Versus the Great Moota.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the this might be a time when we talk about some of the other things that we've been getting up to in those days and what genesis and zaki was up to in part of his time in the United States as Shinzaki now is turning his head back towards Japan after his 1995 in the WWE left.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we will, I'm going to do a production meeting on the air with Mike, just because I'm looking at the time and I'm looking at the rest of my night.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Mike has graciously translated.
[SPEAKER_02]: large portions of a gencations rocky book that we will dive into on the next episode, because there's a lot of talk about that mootomatch in that book.
[SPEAKER_02]: It also is time in the WWE, comparing it to Mitch Joku Pro, leaving WWE off.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to get to all of the next episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we can do a whole big segment there and we'll skip over it for now, just because I'm looking at the time and looking at my night and what I still have to get done, and I don't want to get bogged down by a ton of that shanzaki stuff right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, let's move on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is very interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say this now instead of saving it for the these days episode when they get to Sumo Hall.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you realize that Shinzaki, when he comes back to Japan, he works Muto and April, and then he does not wrestle again until October 10th, 1996 on Sumo Hall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and at least through his book, it's a lot more of a k-faping without getting too much deep into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's still like, he essentially, like, he's done with WF in this time and he goes back to Tokushima and he's living with his grandparents.
[SPEAKER_00]: like and he's just not rustling and he said he's trying to figure out his next step like again it's like kind of like a cafe thing but it's a wild kind of thing that like he leaves and he does like these two matches and then that's essentially his 1996 after that point he's doing a lot more algebraic after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we will obviously dive into Shenzaki, leaving the WF and that match with Muta on the next episode as well as Saskia versus Liger.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's on the watch list as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some big New Japan stuff coming up there as we get back to a partnership between New Japan and Micheal Kupro, which I don't fully understand why it went away to begin with.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in 1996, it's back and sure enough, it ends up being incredibly beneficial for Micheal Kupro.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's literally the fact that Liger got hurt and he couldn't say no we need to be doing
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it goes back to the Ricky Chosher story of him watching Taka during the shake up and being like, what, like, what is this?
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I watching right now and shirt off?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Liger was there to put him in his place and then Liger is not on the road and all of a sudden, no Mitchell Cooper pro.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as a result,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's it's funny the sort of void that 1995 can fall into with the junior heavyweight wrestling because all Japan never specialized in the juniors and so they don't you know, all Japan 1995 is historically great, but not because of the junior heavyweights, but when you look at the greatness of 94 in the greatest of 96, both in the context of the
[SPEAKER_02]: What's missing, Jews should thunder like or calling the shots or a partnership with Mitch Doku Pro, a new Japan promised like it's just amazing the void that 1995 falls into.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's kind of remarkable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we do have one more show to cover here.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the three 15 show in Osaka and before we get there because that show, it's in Osaka.
[SPEAKER_02]: So of course, it's headline by a big dolphin match, which again, I like that
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, 1994, it is mask versus hair, sato versus dolphin, 1995.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a title match where sato finally wins.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this year, we get dolphin versus L Pantara for the CMLL.
[SPEAKER_02]: world welterweight title.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we have to talk about that CMLL world welterweight title for just a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we go back to the observer.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go back to January.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is from January 23rd, 1996 in the AAA section in which Dave writes, the Marino family is leaving the EMLL fold along with Juan
[SPEAKER_02]: and helping this group, meaning AAA.
[SPEAKER_02]: A key to this deal is that Altmo Dragon is part of the family, and he was at a combined show in knock upon over the weekend and is said to finally be quitting email out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dragon said that he wouldn't be going to ECW because he's in too much pain to do what would be necessary to get over there.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got so many injuries now at 29 from all the craziness of his youth that he looks back at the wrestling business and feels he can probably last one more year in Japan before he'll take it easy in a tone down style in Mexico.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave kind of nails that, you know, Ultimo Jack in the 1996.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's his last to launch a pan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about how he gets that WCW deal, like he realistically, you know, you put in context like the Mexican economy at that time, it makes a lot of sense that Ultimo is looking around and going like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I don't think I'm able to keep up any more in Japan, but there are these other avenues, and of course WCW becomes like the big avenue, and then of course what happens with a Zelbo injury there, changes everything completely, but when you think about like him at 29, it also makes you like think about what he was doing and how modest universal at 21.
[SPEAKER_00]: basically it does kind of make you go like holy shit this guy already like if you're looking at like a 10 year period and like the stars of Japan and in Mexico like he would be on that top five list but it's just never worked out cleanly with like decades like this and already at 29 looking into his 30s he's already thinking about what will be next for him
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's really it's an interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's I part of I think what's so interesting about all spoilers, just how short that prime actually is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I include unmasked Yoshinari aside in that prime, which a lot of people do not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dave would continue on the 23rd noting that Paul Hamonsaw tape of the 777 Dragon.
[SPEAKER_02]: versus Chris Jericho, match of the year from Japan.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was interested in bringing them in as a feud.
[SPEAKER_02]: That does not happen, but that would have been nice to see in ECW.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we jump ahead to the AAA section.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is on March 8th.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Dave writes that Octagon brought out Pantera from EMLL and talked about him being a new partner.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like Octagon, Pantera, an ultimo dragon will become a regular trio.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pantera came out with the CMLL Walter Wake title and said he was giving back the title because he is joining AAA.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that to me is fascinating.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do not see that anymore of guys jumping promotions as champions jumping with titles at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that means that this match in Osaka on the 15th is Super Delphin, Mr. Cooper Ressler, does not work for CMLL, versus Pantera, Triple A Ressler, holding a CMLL world-wealth and rate title in Delphin wins.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is essentially an unsanctioned title match to put the belt on him now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, Delfin pays for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's very, very clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he celebrates someone who just paid for a title when someone could come and bring him, like his own resplendent jacket because he didn't get a Super J Cup jacket.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he gets a special pink Delfin mask or a jacket in Osaka for wedding this belt.
[SPEAKER_00]: That, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is though on like a certain course with Delphine because like the whole situation like the UWA felt like at a certain point I feel like Delphine in the 90s like ends up with like these belts that it feels like that and in this case I know that there's like a resolution and things kind of going along with that but it
[SPEAKER_00]: does kind of give an error that Delphine is someone who buys Heidelore built and that's what it kind of feels like that he kind of does this as a way to, you know, have a big homecoming show for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really interesting business that you just know and March you're going to get a really big Delphan match in Osaka at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was I was looking ahead to, you know, what they do say in 1997 and beyond.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, March of 1997 they're back in Osaka and it's
[SPEAKER_02]: a big, you know, that is the, I believe that's when they do the gauntlet style matches between Kai and tie in the second gun, but you get a big, dolphin versus sheer you match on that so then you jump ahead to 1998 and it's once again a really big, dolphin match.
[SPEAKER_02]: That one is high a boost and dolphin versus not a one tiger mask and then, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: who things happen and and for some reason they don't return to Osaka for a few years after 1998, Delta no longer in the picture, but I do love that that became tradition.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost in the same way that we know we get a big drink, kid match, and I eat you every year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just to have, hey, it's March.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Delphine.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Osaka.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to get something big.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the bummer is that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Despite loving Delphine and despite really enjoying Pantera as a wrestler, these guys wrestle so often and they don't really have a classic match with one another.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this match is good, but they make tape so often with one another, and I don't know if they ever had a truly great match with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I mean, this one, I was, I was three and three quarters on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that it for the feud and in like the legs of the pantera has in this promotion that this really is indicative of that, but like it was a smooth and nice match.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, pan, it did have like a situation where you had dolphin when with a Japanese
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of not necessarily like his bent of the passion of Sasuke match, but it was him like appealing to his home town and being like the home town guy that gets a big win in his home town in it in pintera look like it was solid enough there, but he just did not have a
[SPEAKER_00]: a higher gear that really that you are seeing in with him against Sato.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, it really, other than like my enjoyment of the Delphin character and all of that, he is someone that like, I have such a frustrating time with because this is like the situation where you think he would have, like, maybe the best match on this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: And no, I think that the,
[SPEAKER_00]: Nano on Dreamchaser's six man against Sasuke Shiri and Tiger Mask War was, but was better than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, yeah, I mean, you know, this is a three match show from what we get on tape.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sadly, we do not get Hamada and Hoshikawa versus Dictogo and Mids Taio in any sort of real way, but there's the Blizzard Yuki versus Chaperita Delphin or Asari match on this show, which is, yeah, I'm very enjoyable for what it is, but I'm sorry, he's a lot of fun whenever she kind of pops up in in Hasikawa.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like Hasikawa for my limited
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's been fun in her other appearances when she was on when she did the attack match with dolphin too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was nice to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was nice to do to kind of have like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the semi-man event as you're about to get into is what you kind of, I would take away is the best thing that over at this episode of those days by far.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, this is my main event on this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think is historically one of the more important matches in the history of this promotion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is maybe not quite as dramatic as the Neruki Doi heel turn and joining blood generation in January of 2005.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you're in a rewatch project, do you know what's around the corner and you know what's coming?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the match that gives the ball rolling on everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a lot for Naki and Taka versus Shiri of the Great Sasuke and Tiger Mask, 22 minutes, 22 seconds, and just a thrilling six-man tag.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the story of this match ends up being that even though Fynaki is not a former member of Delphan Corps, they are still the heel style aside, is still in lockstep and Taka and Nanna while work well with him, and they are able to get through this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Second gun is not
[SPEAKER_00]: does not get through this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's constant misfires of Sasuke and Tiger Mask for against Shiryu throughout the Sashiryu for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mess wrestling without his main and end what we now know as kind of his heel mask in this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: The closing stretch was another big breakdown from Shiryu going for a
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, the constant misfires usually were from like laryots and from, and duck downs from this, but it allowed, uh, sure you to be by himself eating a fishman buster from finaki, Mitchenoku driver from Takah, and then a top rope splash of right on top of Ryu to get the wind for the heels.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Kiantai hits the ring right afterwards, Delphin Corps, content till a kind of nut, not getting involved in the situation, slink to the back and Dictogo and Menseo, essentially, a peel and get cheer you fully on their side.
[SPEAKER_00]: He refuses and shoves down a handshakes from a Sasuke and Tiger Mask trying to put them back on the same page here, and he leaves with
[SPEAKER_00]: with Dictogo and then say how to finally have Kai and Tai as a group distinct from Sekki Gun at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's crazy that this is the best performance sure you has up to this point in his career and it just so happens to be this match and it's not the hardest most aggressive of turns but it is very clear when you leave this show
[SPEAKER_02]: that she or you has made a choice and he's aligning himself with Togo and with Teo over Sasuke and Tiger mask.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, it's not this dramatic super hard turn yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could just tell that something is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really liked the way that they did that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if subtle is the right word, but again, they did not beat you over the head with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: A really strong turn there as for the match.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my god, you know, the thing that jumped
[SPEAKER_02]: My favorite spot of the match is Sasuke going for, like a power bomb, I'll talk to Mitch Noku and Grand Nautawa drop kicking Sasuke's leg.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Sasuke, I don't know if it was just the best dropkick in human history or if Sasuke just sold us in a way that you thought his leg would have to be amputated after this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was just, it was so brutal in the way that it looked.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think everybody brings it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best year you're performance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a great non-deritable Sasuke style match.
[SPEAKER_02]: Taka, we've talked about it a bunch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Funaki is just right in there doing his thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh god, it is this is just my style of wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me, like I know we are talking about like how we kind of position where we are on this journey, but having like fully online finaki, just being absolute prick and not giving up after Sausage did you end up watching the finaki versus Sausage match?
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have not seen that singles match yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I just love the fact that the dreamed K Chaser's are basically like two paranas and lockstep that like Fonaki is clearly not through with Sasuke and I love that kind of aspect of not fully moving on from a few afterwards and the kind of lingering kind of thing that
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a real kind of hopeless moment for Sasuke because at least like Delphin and his bombs were one thing, but this is like the the Mitchenoku pro kind of locker room in the way that it kind of felt like you had.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sasuke as like the big leader and now it's like fully in doubt and I love how I don't know if I would say it's subtle But I love like the idea that if you have Watching these shows now for 13 episodes and you get kind of an appreciation of like Okay, this is how this is all supposed to work or play out and now you you're starting down this turn and it's not that That they immediately come into blows.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the fact that like
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, with Alice, many words that like Sherry go in like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am perfectly fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, now fully following Dictogo and not listening to what you have to say Sasuke after the way that YouTube put me through with that match.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that that was just brilliant story telling.
[SPEAKER_02]: I completely agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would call this a four-star match.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's one that everybody needs to go check out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was four-flight on that as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike, that takes us to the end of episode 13 of those days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Episode 14, unless there's anything else, do there anything else you want to bring up before we run down what's coming up next?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think we need to like underline the fact that Delfin gets like this while cat belt essentially for his homecoming.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's plenty more of the observer on that next episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I see that these are the things that I love about pro wrestling case it is finding little projects like skate but like coming up a coming across 30 year old like little Auto biography books and it's and it's finding out we're title minutia.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: title happenings, but this is the podcast you had for better or worse, as I say it out loud, I wonder if I've made some horrible mistakes in my life, but episode 14 of those days is going to be a doozy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to go, we're going to try to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, this is where some of these episodes might get to a point where we have to cut these into.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we do, we promise we'll try to record them.
[SPEAKER_02]: These two partners as close as we can.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: The plan for the next episode is to start on March 16th and Tokyo at Oto Ward and go through the end of June, we're going to get new Japan along the way, the return of
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 1996, get into it, folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could follow us on social media at Open Voice Gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bof on Twitter and Blue Sky with that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could follow us on Twitter at I'm at Fujiheye, cases that underscore in your case.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could follow us in the Voices of Wrestling Discord.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we post the matchless things and show guys for all of our historical shows that we do over on Open The Voice Gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think now we're quickly getting to a point where it's like 80 time evergreen episodes at this point like by then this year we might be at approaching 100 just with that alone, but other stuff there as well, but that's going to do it this time on open the voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: are not on open the voice gay that's going to do it this time on those days will be with you next time talking about the all the follow that comes from the uh the April new Japan Tokyo Dom show and Yone Gingen and CMLL take care everyone.