[SPEAKER_07]: Hello, everyone.
[SPEAKER_07]: Welcome to Slash Film Weekly.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's Wednesday, March 25th, 2021.
[SPEAKER_07]: On today's episode of the show, we are going to be talking about Project Hail Mary and present interviews with the filmmakers in Star.
[SPEAKER_07]: Ready or not, too.
[SPEAKER_07]: And we'll have interviews with the Reddit directors and cast, Peaky Blinders, the Immortal Man, and we'll have an interview with creator Steven Knight and HBO's DTF St. Louis, and we'll have some interviews with the showrunner and two cast members for that as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: My name is Ben Pearson.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm an editor at slashfilm.com and yes, we do have a jam packed episode for you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Before we get to that, I wanted to give a quick shout out to A24 who sent me the score for Marty Supreme on vinyl, which I think, I mean, sinners aside was my favorite score of last year.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think sinners, Marty Supreme, and one battle after another had like,
[SPEAKER_07]: absolutely tremendous Alzheimer scores in 2025, and my god, just listening to this Marty Supreme score again on this spectacular vinyl I just got, I cannot get over the fact that the score was not nominated at the Oscars for Best Original Score.
[SPEAKER_07]: It blows my mind.
[SPEAKER_07]: How the Academy could have overlooked this.
[SPEAKER_07]: is a some sort of Oscar's travesty in my mind.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I just wanted to give a quick shout out for that it's a beautiful, beautiful score and very like ethereal and synth driven and it's got that 80s inflection that is really wonderful that doesn't really drive with the actual period of
[SPEAKER_07]: the setting for Marty Supreme, but just somehow works.
[SPEAKER_07]: So wonderfully within the context of that story.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's really, yeah, one of my favorite scores, not just of 20, 25, but in a long, long time.
[SPEAKER_07]: So please check that out if you're interested in great movie music.
[SPEAKER_07]: And let's now get into some movie and TV news.
[SPEAKER_07]: There have been so many news stories here.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm gonna drop links as usual to a lot of the stuff in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm just gonna touch on some things because we have so many interviews and movies
[SPEAKER_07]: that we just don't really have a ton of time here at the top of the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I wanted to mention first of all that as of yesterday, a word came out that's open AI is going to be shutting down the Sora AI video app, which good riddance to that.
[SPEAKER_07]: And Disney was
[SPEAKER_07]: Supposed to be investing $1 billion in that company and agreed to license some of its characters for use in Sora and now a source tells the Hollywood Reporter that Disney is exiting that deal with open AI the the parent company of Sora.
[SPEAKER_07]: So who knows exactly what that means.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I think Disney will probably end up making a similar deal with some other company or at least embracing AI in some fashion moving forward because
[SPEAKER_07]: It seems like every corporate leader just kind of falls for the typical talking points and kind of a flashy BS that the AI industry is peddling out there.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I would be really surprised if this was like the end of Disney's participation in this kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: But for now, I'm taking this as a personal victory that Sora is gonna be.
[SPEAKER_07]: closing down.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, yes, once again, good written to that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Um, I wanted to mention that Spider-Man brand new day has set a record for, well, actually multiple records at this point.
[SPEAKER_07]: It had the biggest trailer debut in history for the first 24 hours.
[SPEAKER_07]: It got 718 million views.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then earlier this week where it came out, that's the trailer is now the first movie trailer to cross one billion views.
[SPEAKER_07]: underestimating Spider-Man brand new day and the interest in that movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: This should definitely change your opinion about that because this seems like if those views are genuinely representative of the amount of interest in this film and the continuing adventures of Tom Holland as Spider-Man, this is going to be maybe the biggest movie of the year.
[SPEAKER_07]: So stay tuned for more on that.
[SPEAKER_07]: We'll
[SPEAKER_07]: Obviously, as it gets a little bit closer.
[SPEAKER_07]: In terms of Spider-Man adjacent news, a one-time Spider-Man star, Kirsten Dunst, has joined a new project.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's going to be joining, well, she's actually joined multiple new projects that I have not talked about on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_07]: One of which is the sequel to the Minecraft movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's going to be in that, and I think she said something along the lines of like, she essentially manifested that casting.
[SPEAKER_07]: And basically said, I want to be in a movie that makes a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_07]: So the producers of that film heard her and granted that wish.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's happening, and then also just a few days ago, where it came out that Kristen Dunce is also going to be in the Housemaid's secret, which is the sequel to the Housemaid.
[SPEAKER_07]: So she's going to be joining Sydney Swenie in that sequel for Lionsgate.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that is potentially exciting news there.
[SPEAKER_07]: We talked a little bit about the Housemaid earlier.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think Amanda Cyford was the best part of that movie in Sydney Swenie and her character didn't really do much for me,
[SPEAKER_07]: This franchise is going to be putting Cindy Sweeney alongside veteran actresses like Amanda Cyphery and Kirsten Dunst and kind of like seeing what sparks fly in various ways between those characters.
[SPEAKER_07]: I suppose I'm on board with that, at least it's a cool opportunity for Kirsten Dunst to be in something that I'm guessing a lot of people are going to see.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that's great news.
[SPEAKER_07]: Star Trek Starfleet Academy has been canceled.
[SPEAKER_07]: That show is going to have its upcoming second season.
[SPEAKER_07]: That'll be its last season.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you can read more about that.
[SPEAKER_07]: If you're interested, Wonderman season 2 is actually happening at Disney Plus, which is surprising.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I think the Star Trek news was disappointing for a lot of fans of that franchise.
[SPEAKER_07]: But the Wonderman renewal is surprising in a positive way for fans of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
[SPEAKER_07]: I've not gotten around to watching Wonderman yet, but I've heard great things about it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think it was like one of those kind of projects that was almost caught in between errors of Marvel Studios approach to how they were going to be dealing with streaming shows and had seemed at one point maybe around the time of the pandemic that it was potentially going to be scrapped or canceled or something and then
[SPEAKER_07]: Eventually the studio got behind it and obviously gave it the green light and then that's First season has performed pretty well and gotten a really great critical reception So it's just rare that Disney has given a second season to the Marvel Disney plus shows I mean I'm like Loki did it.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure there's one or two others, but a lot of the Disney plus Marvel series have not received second season.
[SPEAKER_07]: So this is great news for anybody who cares about the
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's see, speaking of Disney, let's go to another Disney story here, Akiva Shaffer, who recently directed the new version of the naked gun, is going to be directing a new movie called Step Sisters, that is a live action Cinderella spin off for Disney, and Dan Greger and Doug Mann, who I believe wrote,
[SPEAKER_07]: the naked gun as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think they all worked on Chippendale rescue Rangers for Disney together.
[SPEAKER_07]: They're going to be writing the screen play for step sisters.
[SPEAKER_07]: We don't know exactly what the full premise is, but we know that it's a live action movie that focuses on the evil step sisters to abuse Cinderella and got theirs when her foot fit the glass slipper.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, um, you know, on its surface, I'm not immediately intrigued by a story that feels very
[SPEAKER_07]: a studio digging into its library of IP and scraping the bottom of the barrel and being like, what can we do here?
[SPEAKER_07]: But that said, the people involved in this are very funny and have made very funny stuff in the past, so this could easily be
[SPEAKER_07]: a very pleasant surprise when it ends up coming out.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm reserving full judgment until I see more about step sisters.
[SPEAKER_07]: And Shane Black is gonna be working on a movie adaptation of the executioner books, which are like a series of pulp novels by Don Pendleton.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's gonna be reteming with Joel Silver, his longtime producer for that.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's gonna be working with Anthony Bagarose, who co-wrote the screenplay of the nice guys with him.
[SPEAKER_07]: And Charles Mondry, who I believe all three of them worked on Play Dirty, the Amazon movie, which I personally hated so much that I didn't even finish watching it.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that also is an adaptation of like a pulp-style novel.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I'm just hoping that this one is going to be a much better
[SPEAKER_07]: Take on that type of thing because this is going to be a Sony project instead of like a straight to Amazon Prime video type of thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: So hopefully it'll have enough resources to make this worthwhile thing because what I saw of Play Dirty, especially the CG and stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, not to disparage people in an industry that are obviously facing extremely difficult deadlines and crunch and all sorts of like awful working conditions.
[SPEAKER_07]: but Wolf, the CG in Play Dirty was extremely rough.
[SPEAKER_07]: So in any case, I hope this is definitely a major step up from that.
[SPEAKER_07]: So fingers crossed there.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then the last thing is that there is a new Lord of the Rings movie in the works, and Stephen Colbert is going to be helping to write the script.
[SPEAKER_07]: So this is actually going to be a sequel to the original trilogy.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be called the Lord of the Rings Shadow of the Past.
[SPEAKER_07]: Peter Jackson is going to be working on this, and we know that Stephen Colbert is going to be co-writing the screenplay with Phil Poboyans, who's one of the big creatives behind every live action Lord The Rings project of the past 25 years, and newcomer Peter McGee, and this is going to be set 14 years after Frodo left the Shire for the Grey Havens, and it's going to follow Sam, Mary, and Pippin as they reunite for a new adventure, meanwhile Sam's young daughter will embark on a journey of her own.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's what's happening there.
[SPEAKER_07]: It is supposed to be adapting some sections from the very beginning of the fellowship of the ring that we're skipped over in Peter Jackson's original adaptation of that movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, I mean, this is really cool for Stephen Colbert, who's obviously a noted super fan of all things Tolkien.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure exactly how I feel about this.
[SPEAKER_07]: I will once again preserve judgment until I see more, but again, this kind of feels like, man, we're doing this.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I guess I'm glad that it's going to be set after the events of the trilogy because
[SPEAKER_07]: the idea of the hunt for Gollum, which is another movie that's in development right now, that one kind of trying to pick out this little in-between space, and then you're going to have to what de-age a bunch of people and like, how is that going to go?
[SPEAKER_07]: It also, we kind of know exactly how that story ends because you can't deviate too far because it just has to merge back into the main timeline and continue on the story that we've already seen.
[SPEAKER_07]: So at least this is something
[SPEAKER_07]: the end of the original trilogy, even though it's supposed to be based on some of the early chapters of the book, I'm not exactly sure how that is going to work.
[SPEAKER_07]: So anyway, you can watch a video announcement that one of our brothers released where Peter Jackson and Stephen Colbert talk about this.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that is the big news of the past 24 hours anyway.
[SPEAKER_07]: So we'll definitely be talking a lot more about that as we learn more about it.
[SPEAKER_07]: So stay tuned on that front.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's take a quick break and then
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm joined now by SlashFilm Editor Brad Owen.
[SPEAKER_07]: Hey, that's me.
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, Brad.
[SPEAKER_07]: We're here to talk about Project Hail Mary.
[SPEAKER_07]: I read this book, which was written by Andy Weer.
[SPEAKER_07]: Jacob Brecken did it to me, and I read it before.
[SPEAKER_07]: I had a chance to see the movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: You have not read the book, so I think we're going to be bringing some interest.
[SPEAKER_07]: Hopefully, interesting perspectives here.
[SPEAKER_07]: What did you think about this film?
[SPEAKER_10]: I love this movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: I adore this movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: I have seen this movie three times, right now, and I think I will see it one more time as well.
[SPEAKER_10]: This movie is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_10]: It is so...
[SPEAKER_10]: wonderful and charming and heartwarming and uplifting and beautiful and it's an incredible production.
[SPEAKER_10]: Ryan Gosling is fantastic in it.
[SPEAKER_10]: This is the kind of movie that like effectively uses every single part of what makes cinema great and Lord and Miller continue to prove themselves to be
[SPEAKER_10]: the best filmmakers working today.
[SPEAKER_10]: Like, I feel like there's nothing that they can't do.
[SPEAKER_10]: This is, it's on par with great movies like ET and a rival and interstellar and contact.
[SPEAKER_10]: It's just absolutely outstanding in every possible way.
[SPEAKER_07]: I really loved it as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: There are a couple aspects of the book that the movie didn't really get into or just kind of like barely touched on that I want to dig into a little bit with you later when we get into a spoiler part of this conversation, Brad.
[SPEAKER_07]: But before we do that, I was shocked to realize that
[SPEAKER_07]: it's been many years since Lord Miller directed a movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think 2014 was the last feature film they officially directed because obviously the whole solo a Star Wars story fiasco went down in the interim and like their name has just felt so present in the culture because they've been writing and producing the spiderverse movies and
[SPEAKER_07]: They're like, I think involved as producers on the upcoming spider noir show and like they've kind of never gone away really, they were working on the after party.
[SPEAKER_07]: I talked to them on the podcast for that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But just as feature film directors, it's been over a decade since they've directed something and they really just came out and it felt like they did not miss a beat in that process.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what do you think about what they were able to do behind the camera here?
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, this is, um, this is their most, you know, uh, I think ambitious film and their most dazzling film.
[SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it is, uh, visually stunning.
[SPEAKER_10]: There's sequence in here that like when you see them on the big screen, like he'll just feel totally immersed and just in this world of, of wonder.
[SPEAKER_10]: It's one of those movies that really makes a meal out of the beauty of space and also some of what is terrifying about space too.
[SPEAKER_10]: Um, and it's, you know, the,
[SPEAKER_10]: the characters obviously are the driving force of this movie too and just the the relationship they spark between Ryan Gosling and the alien character in this movie is funny and lovely and it plays like a buddy comedy but it also plays like a movie you know about about friends and it's about discovery and it's about you know
[SPEAKER_10]: taking, taking responsibility just not only for yourself, but for, you know, humanity.
[SPEAKER_10]: And it's, yeah, there's just, there's so many different things that I'd play here.
[SPEAKER_10]: And I'm just, uh, I'm really, I'm looking like in all about how a movie this big can be such a, you know, a crowd-pleaser and do so much.
[SPEAKER_07]: One super tiny moment that I was very impressed by is something that is gonna go by in a blink of an eye that I'm guessing 99.9% of people watching the movie wouldn't even clock, which is there's a karaoke scene at one point.
[SPEAKER_07]: And during that sequence, there are several cuts to different angles within that room where this character is performing the song, a karaoke.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's reaction shots to a bunch of different characters.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's obviously close-ups of that character performing the songs.
[SPEAKER_07]: But then there's this one moment and it lasts for like one second.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a shot where it cuts to the hallway outside of that room.
[SPEAKER_07]: And there are two soldiers standing there with their heads turned toward that room.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it just, I was just like smiling when I noticed that moment because that feels like a Lord and Miller thing to do, expanding the scope a little bit of the movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: Any other filmmaker would not have included that shot, I think, because there's no real reason for it to be there.
[SPEAKER_07]: But by including it, it makes that world of this movie feel so much bigger and more real than just that room where that character is singing.
[SPEAKER_07]: which in a way could feel like a set where something is taking place, right?
[SPEAKER_07]: But by including that shot, where the camera is further back and you can't even see the performer singing in that moment.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's just about establishing the space and kind of almost bringing the camera backwards and expanding the aperture a little bit.
[SPEAKER_07]: I just thought it was such a smart little choice that I think contributes to the feeling of the movie instead of anything that anybody's actually gonna notice.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, 100% agree and yeah, I definitely know this knows that too.
[SPEAKER_10]: It just, it reminds you that it's because the movie is such, it's focused on a pretty small group of characters for the most part.
[SPEAKER_10]: Like it's pretty much, you know, Ryan Gosling and his alien friend show and then there's a small supporting cast throughout flashbacks and things like that.
[SPEAKER_10]: But that little moment is just something that reminds you of like the, you know, the larger consequences of like what what is about to happen and what why they're doing what they're
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I mean, I kind of got mad a little bit during this movie, Brad, because Ryan Gosling is so damn good in this and it made me mad because I was remembering the fall guy and the fact that that movie was not somehow a massive success at the box office, which I truly feel like it should have been because I'm just sitting there in my seat, watching this film and being like
[SPEAKER_07]: Gosling is giving us gold here.
[SPEAKER_07]: People, what are you guys doing?
[SPEAKER_07]: Why are people not supporting the fall guy?
[SPEAKER_07]: Why did people not go see the nice guys in theaters when that came out?
[SPEAKER_07]: I was telling my wife afterwards.
[SPEAKER_07]: I feel like, you know, 30 years from now or something, people are going to be talking about Ryan Gosling in the same way that talk about
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, whoever Robert Redford or like some major major huge star or whatever, and people were going to be like, Oh, yeah, it's been a fan of Gosling ever since whatever, but like no, you people didn't show up for the fall guy you didn't show up for the nice guys you're making me mad.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's so damn good.
[SPEAKER_07]: What is going on here.
[SPEAKER_10]: So
[SPEAKER_10]: And I really think what it is, too, is because people do love Ryan Gosling and like everyone is a fan of his.
[SPEAKER_10]: But for whatever reason, I think the roles that he chooses and the movies that he's in are just like for whatever reason not something that people find themselves attracted to even just because he's in it, which is really frustrating because
[SPEAKER_10]: the fact that he's picking these movies should be a reason that you should give these, you know, give the fall guy a chance, you know, give the nice guys a chance, you know, because obviously he was so big as Ken and Barbie, you know, and people love when he hosts Saturday Night Live, and people have known him since the notebook, he's a very beloved actor, one of the most famous people on the planet.
[SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, the fact that he makes these great movies and the people don't draft for them is really frustrating because he really is one of the best actors working right now.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's so tremendous in this and it's such a different performance from what he did in first man, which is another astronaut movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: These filters are so tonally different that I didn't even think about first man a single time watching this.
[SPEAKER_07]: This is very much its own thing and has much more of a buoyant tone and that film I think is a good showcase for first man I should
[SPEAKER_07]: Gosson can do as kind of like a little bit of a darker, more internal type of character performance.
[SPEAKER_07]: But this is very much him in like charming, leading man mode here.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's just so good.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'd love this movie so much.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I guess we should talk about some spoiler aspects, or at least put that spoiler warning up.
[SPEAKER_07]: So we have the freedom to talk about any aspect of the movie that interested you Brad.
[SPEAKER_07]: So if you've not seen Project Hail Mary yet, please go check it out.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's really one of the best films the year so far.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think anybody listening to this will really, really enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, what were some aspects in the movie that stood out to you, Brad?
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, I love the structure of this movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: It's the way it unfold is going back and forth with these parallel timelines where we wake up with Ryan Gosling in space.
[SPEAKER_10]: He's clearly been in some kind of sustained induced sleep for a long time, because he has a very
[SPEAKER_10]: long, long hair, and long beard, and he's confused as to why he's even in space, which is a fascinating approach because you would think that based on what the movie is about, that he's somebody who knows why he's there.
[SPEAKER_10]: So the movie just back and forth between him being on this spaceship called The Hail Mary, and
[SPEAKER_10]: to flashbacks as to how he ended up there.
[SPEAKER_10]: And what's great is it creates a little bit of a mystery, and it's one that has a real gut punch of a reveal for Ryan Gosling's character, Rylan Grace, who is a very intelligent microbiologist.
[SPEAKER_10]: and helps them discover things that they otherwise wouldn't know about this cosmic tragedy that has been fallen the son of our solar system where there's these microscope organisms called astrophage that are slowly eating the sun and will have disastrous consequences on the earth over the next 30 years.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so having following him as a character as he figures
[SPEAKER_10]: things out and realize things and has memories that go back and forth it's a great way to tell the story especially when it's revealed that he chose not to go on the mission even after there was a disaster that kept their previously prepared science officer and backup science officer from going on the mission because they were killed in an accidental explosion.
[SPEAKER_10]: And when he's asked to go and on a mission where that will essentially require him sacrificing himself because the astronauts are supposed to die in space for this mission they're about to undertake, he can't do it.
[SPEAKER_10]: Like he takes the cowards way out and then he's forced onto this ship against his will.
[SPEAKER_10]: And that's why he wakes up and doesn't know why he's there.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so it's a really surprising turn.
[SPEAKER_10]: about that you know how you approach that and you know what's what it's like as an actor to like take on a character like that and um yeah i think it's really one of it's it's one of many things that make this movie feel unique um on top of the way the relationship you know with uh with rocky develops you know because what i love about rocky as a character as an alien
[SPEAKER_10]: Um, is that he's just cute enough, but they don't make him overly adorable where he's like grogu, you know, like he's, he's a little bit of ET, but he's also a scientist, uh, who, or a astronaut, who is basically every bit as smart as Ryan and the graces.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so watching them work together, it's, it's like an, it's basically a new iteration of science pros, uh, and just the dynamic they have and like the, the way that they,
[SPEAKER_10]: are friendly, but also get on each other's nerves, like roommates, as they're trying to figure stuff out, and it's just, yeah, that's, it's a really, it's, there's so many different flavors in this movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: I just, yeah, I love it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that rocky character is so well done.
[SPEAKER_07]: I understand that it's like basically almost half-and-half between visual effects and puppetry and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Just such a cool movie creation.
[SPEAKER_07]: And the humor, this movie is really, really funny, as you would probably expect from a Lord and Miller movie and also Drew Goddard.
[SPEAKER_07]: who's one of the screenwriters, or maybe the primary screenwriter, he his work is typically very, very funny as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: So everybody just, I feel like this is, you know, just about as good as you can get from blockbuster moviemaking.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I wanted to ask you though, but I'm glad you mentioned the bit of the reveal about Ryland Grace's cowardice.
[SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to ask how that worked for you as somebody who did not read the book, because for me,
[SPEAKER_07]: that part hits a little bit harder in the book because the whole thing with the structure of the book is it's very, very similar where Grace is having these, he basically has imnesia because of that coma that he was put into.
[SPEAKER_07]: And
[SPEAKER_07]: He's slowly remembering things as the story goes along.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so he's filling in gaps about who he is as a person.
[SPEAKER_07]: And this movie is a little bit looser with defining exactly what Grace is remembering every time versus just a typical flashback and what we're seeing.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's not super clear to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: After one viewing of this film that every single time there's a flashback, that immediately informs what present day grace is doing in the ship, do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and having seen it three times now, you do start to notice little things that
[SPEAKER_10]: that where you see what is happening in the corner quote present day that spark the memory for him, especially in that sequence.
[SPEAKER_10]: And this was something that I actually only noticed the third time.
[SPEAKER_10]: And if you're more of a student, you might even just notice at the first time, but there is a there's a detail where it's, and I think this is really what makes the gut punch feel that much more impactful in the movie is that he's in the midst of celebrating with Rocky after
[SPEAKER_10]: It's Rocky nearly dies and while Rocky is recovering, Rylan Grace has figured out how to take this microscopic life that they found on another planet that will kill the astrophage and effectively save the sun.
[SPEAKER_10]: He figured out how to evolve it and adapt it so that it will live in a nitrogen environment and they can actually take it home and use it.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so they're celebrated because they succeeded their mission.
[SPEAKER_10]: And as they're doing it, he has this flashback this to what happened when he
[SPEAKER_10]: was asked to make this, you know, to go on this mission and he tells Sandra Huller's character that he just can't do it and he refuses to and they have to chase him down and knock him out and put him on the mission and he it's it's the performance from gasoline as he has this realization and there's a when he's being held down by security people and whatnot and he's looking off as he's.
[SPEAKER_10]: slowly going out of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_10]: He sees in the distance from where he's being held in the ground like a rainbow in the sky and there's like a prism of like rainbow light on his face from like whatever is being projected in that like screen room that they're hanging out in and showing fireworks and stuff.
[SPEAKER_10]: and there's this realization on his face as he remembers what happened and like that's just like that that's it really pulls like the rug out from what is a triumphant moment and you're like oh my god like he totally just like failed you know like at the moment when he could have stood up and like been you know the person who made made that call and made a decision to like say sacrifice himself to save the world he couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just feel like the movie version didn't really show present day grace grappling with what that means and what that with the decision that his past self made like there's one moment where Rocky tells him like you're very brave or something and he says I don't know about that and like he said something very similar to that earlier in the film so it was almost unclear if he even
[SPEAKER_07]: really was was talking about his own cowardice, his previous cowardice in that moment or if it's just sort of a continuing through line from what he said before.
[SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, in the book that moment, I think hits a little bit harder, it's a little bit more, oh, it's much more impactful because your inside grace is head and so you're realizing like you're on the page with him as he's like, oh my god, like this is really hitting me and you don't really get that sense from Gosling's version of that character and I don't think because there's just like,
[SPEAKER_07]: too much other stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_07]: The other aspect that I wanted to ask you about is somebody who did not read the book is about what is called the Tal Meba, which is like basically after they are successful at their mission, you think the movie is going to end on this high note and then there's one more disaster, which is that the
[SPEAKER_07]: organisms that they have bred to kill the astrophage that's choking the life out of the sun.
[SPEAKER_07]: These organisms have evolved to the point where they're able to pass through the containers that are supposed to be keeping them
[SPEAKER_07]: safe and kind of keeping them locked up for usage later.
[SPEAKER_07]: And we find out that Rocky's ship is made of the same material that these containers are in.
[SPEAKER_07]: So Rocky is going to experience just a horrific slow death.
[SPEAKER_07]: And you kind of get that in the movie, but they go into much more detail about that in the book.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I was wondering how that worked for you.
[SPEAKER_10]: I think it works well for me because I've heard complaints and not even really complaint is just the one thing that people wish that there could have been more of in the movie but they understand why there isn't is that it's really hard to convey and talk about and include a lot of the science stuff that is in the book because it would basically just amount to exposition in the movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so they have to like really conflate and like quickly explain certain things that otherwise will probably take more time in the book and you understand a little more fully I never had a problem understanding why what happened happened and what was happening with you know rocky ship and and with the Talmeba and
[SPEAKER_10]: and the xenonite, you know, that the containers in the ship are made out of.
[SPEAKER_10]: And if anything, you know, for me, that only enhances, I think, you know, just I'm sure as it does in the book, that decision is the one, you know, that is what redeems Ryle and Grace because he's basically putting the exact same position where he has an opportunity to do something and sacrifice himself.
[SPEAKER_10]: to save somebody and do this thing.
[SPEAKER_10]: And that's, you know, he'd finally makes that choice himself to go save Rocky, knowing for well, he won't be able to go home if he does that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's why I think that that decision in that moment works so much better in the book because you get that there's like a delineation.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's a clear line of like grace before this project Hail Mary experience where he is admittedly accoured and then the grace who woke up on the ship and has gone through all of this work to try to effectively save the
[SPEAKER_07]: is he doesn't know he's a coward yet.
[SPEAKER_07]: So he can be a brave character and it's not out of character for him.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so he effectively is like a whole new person.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so even the decision at the very end for him to stay
[SPEAKER_07]: on Rocky's planet is not actually a decision in the book, like he doesn't have the option, like that this movie presents him with the option.
[SPEAKER_07]: It says something like, you know, Rocky basically says like, we're working on your ship, like fixing your ship or like the, I don't know,
[SPEAKER_10]: He says, our scientists are ready to prepare the Hail Mary to for its journey home.
[SPEAKER_10]: And then he says, it's like, well, I'll have to think about it.
[SPEAKER_10]: And then Rocky says, well, yeah, please think about it for a long time, because he doesn't want him to leave either.
[SPEAKER_10]: And actually, I'm glad you're right that up, because that's something that I actually asked Lord and Miller about, because it is something that is different from the book.
[SPEAKER_10]: And they have a good answer as to why they change that up ever so slightly from the book.
[SPEAKER_10]: ending at least a little more open ended but then if it if it ends up becoming what the ending of the book is it makes a little bit more powerful for a reason because it's not something that he is happening by default it's a choice that has to be made.
[SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, I think that was, and I, and the one thing I want to to also mention is what you talked about is how like if you felt like a resident book more for me, I think what makes the the idea of him going to save Rocky that much more powerful is it's and this is a testament to how good the script is that that drew wrote is one of the things that.
[SPEAKER_10]: is said earlier and one of the other flashbacks he's talking to Okay, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_10]: What's the name of the guy who's the pilot on the the Hail Mary or the guy who was also in Russia?
[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, I think it's good enough.
[SPEAKER_10]: Ken Lung.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, Ken Lung.
[SPEAKER_10]: He when Ryan Gray says to me, he's like, I can never do what you guys are doing.
[SPEAKER_10]: He's like, I don't have the brave gene and he tells me it's like, oh, he's like, it's easy.
[SPEAKER_10]: You just have to have somebody that you're doing it for.
[SPEAKER_10]: And he doesn't have anybody really, because he doesn't have a relationship his family isn't around for whatever reason, there's no one to have a pet.
[SPEAKER_10]: But Rocky becomes the reason that he does what he does.
[SPEAKER_10]: So he does have somebody to do it for after that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_07]: Also, before we cut to your interviews, I just wanted to say shout out to the character Carl played by Lionel Boyce from the bear, such a fun dynamic between grace and Carl when they're like,
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, doing their kind of like low rent experiments and stuff like that and like Carl is this very like buttoned up security guy, but he kind of like loosens up hanging out with grace a little bit.
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought that that whole stretch of the movie was really, really fun and well done and line up voice to the great job of like turning what could be a pretty boring character into somebody who felt like a real person with a real soul to him, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just wanted to shout those out.
[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, you had a chance to speak with a bunch of people for this movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: So when we go to Ryan Gosling first, we'll jump to your conversation with the star of Project Hail Mary.
[SPEAKER_07]: So here is Brad's conversation with Ryan Gosling.
[SPEAKER_10]: Brian, so good to talk to you about this movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: We're in full spoiler territory.
[SPEAKER_10]: So don't worry.
[SPEAKER_10]: We're going to release this after the movie comes out.
[SPEAKER_10]: So we can talk about anything.
[SPEAKER_10]: I wanted to ask about one of the most emotional moments in this movie when Ryland realizes that he tried to avoid going on this mission.
[SPEAKER_10]: So many movies feature characters realizing they can be the hero.
[SPEAKER_10]: But in this moment, you have to come to terms of the fact that you chose not to be.
[SPEAKER_10]: How did you approach that as an actor?
[SPEAKER_13]: You know, that was the beauty of this film and this character is that I didn't have to pretend to be more heroic than I am or I didn't have to, I mean, I had to pretend to be smarter than I am, but I didn't have to pretend to be, you know, this, this idea of a hero, that that I could just play things as I think I would and connect to the honesty of it, you know, and, and the overwhelming nature of what's being asked for him and,
[SPEAKER_13]: And just also be inspired by Andy's writing and the story and this idea that we're all capable of so much more than we think that we are and more than we're told that we are.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_10]: Now, Ryanland is unique in that even though he's a brilliant engineer, he's completely ill-equipped to travel in space and everything that comes with being an astronaut.
[SPEAKER_10]: How did that inform how you maybe didn't prepare for things like zero gravity and stuff like that in the movie?
[SPEAKER_13]: Well, I prepared in a different way, in the sense that, like, I watched a lot of chaplain movies, a specifically modern times, you know, is very inspired by the sequence where he's caught in the wheels of the machine, really wanted to create sequences and space that you'd never seen before, where it was not space ballet.
[SPEAKER_13]: it was, you know, where my name might be grace, but it was anything but graceful.
[SPEAKER_13]: And, and that took a lot of, you know, a lot of work and an amazing stunt team, you know, but what was fun was these, some astronauts came to give us advice and they said that's actually a little more accurate, because it is quite, they get a lot of bumps and bruises and it is,
[SPEAKER_10]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_10]: Now, you're officially a Lego mini figure.
[SPEAKER_10]: I actually have you right here.
[SPEAKER_10]: Hey, you have your own Kendall.
[SPEAKER_10]: And soon, I'm sure you'll have your own Star Wars figure, which one would Disney channel star Ryan Gosling be the most excited about?
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, wow, it's a good Disney channel.
[SPEAKER_13]: I don't know, they're all pretty crazy on the right level.
[SPEAKER_13]: It's like the three flavors of, of action figure.
[SPEAKER_13]: It's like, you can't have it all.
[SPEAKER_13]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, it seems like you're on the way.
[SPEAKER_13]: That's nuts.
[SPEAKER_10]: On top of that, you're hosting SNL and I can't wait to see what happens again when you host again.
[SPEAKER_10]: It's one of my favorite times to see you on the show.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, thanks, man.
[SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_10]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_10]: They gave me the light.
[SPEAKER_10]: So I got a wrap.
[SPEAKER_10]: But it was so good talking to you, man.
[SPEAKER_10]: And we can't move again.
[SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[SPEAKER_13]: Thanks a lot.
[SPEAKER_07]: Talk to you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then now we'll go to your chat with Drew Goddard, who is the screenwriter.
[SPEAKER_10]: Hey Drew, how's it going?
[SPEAKER_10]: Bradford, it's a pleasure.
[SPEAKER_10]: Thank you for doing this.
[SPEAKER_10]: Of course, thank you for taking the time to talk to me.
[SPEAKER_10]: So let's jump right into it.
[SPEAKER_10]: And I want you to know that we can dig into spoiler territory because we're going to save this until after the movie comes out.
[SPEAKER_10]: So the books, Flashback structure is integral to how the story unfolds in the book.
[SPEAKER_10]: And it also creates this sort of mystery with a heartbreaking reveal at the end about Ryland.
[SPEAKER_10]: Can you talk about the challenges that come with adapting that into a screenplay?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I mean, it was honestly when I read the book, it was thrilling, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: Because because of the very thing you're describing, the mystery of how did we end up in the situation we find ourselves in?
[SPEAKER_14]: And just like you described, there you get to the end of that story, the flashback story, and the whole movie flips on its head, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: And I remember reading that and the hair stood up on the back of my,
[SPEAKER_14]: like, I am paid to do this.
[SPEAKER_14]: My job is to see where things are going, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: And I did not see that coming.
[SPEAKER_14]: I didn't see it coming.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I remember going, okay, first rule of screenwriting protect what's great.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like, but the first rule is don't overthink it like when it's working and you feel that my job becomes about protecting.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so I was like,
[SPEAKER_14]: We're not going to question this, like we're going to build the story about that moment, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: The moment you're describing where you realize how Rylan actually got up on the spaceship.
[SPEAKER_14]: That was the moment for me that made me go, I have to do this movie.
[SPEAKER_14]: I have to do this movie.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so really it was more about like, okay, let's just not overthink it and lay the structure in so that that reveal had as much power as possible.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, absolutely, and it works so well, too.
[SPEAKER_10]: It's such a gut punch to feel that.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, oh good, I'm happy to hear you say that.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's definitely how I felt when I read it.
[SPEAKER_10]: So similar to the Martian, there's a lot of science talk in the movie that you have to make sure general audiences understand how much time do you spend as a writer researching and making sure you understand that stuff yourself so that what you're writing for dialogue and like exposition sounds both natural but also accurate to what you're describing.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, the nice part, the safety net of Andy Weir is that I know that the science is correct, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: So I just have to understand what he's
[SPEAKER_14]: talking about.
[SPEAKER_14]: So I'll spend a lot of, you know, the Martian, I think I felt a duty to because that movie was about professionals.
[SPEAKER_14]: This movie is about a school teacher who's sort of stumbled into space, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so I knew like, oh, actually my own stupidity is actually a value in this movie because I can be in his point of view.
[SPEAKER_14]: And then, but I do try to immerse it.
[SPEAKER_14]: I want to understand.
[SPEAKER_14]: I want to sort of celebrate that science and not do it wrong.
[SPEAKER_14]: I do feel to take that responsibility.
[SPEAKER_14]: strongly.
[SPEAKER_14]: So that's where Andy is like my own secret weapon.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like everyone else has a search engine.
[SPEAKER_14]: I have Andy weird.
[SPEAKER_14]: So I just call Andy if I'm in trouble and he usually gets me out of it.
[SPEAKER_10]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_10]: Now is there anything either from the book or from a previous draft of your script that didn't make it into the movie that you are bummed to lose in the final cut?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, there is like usually and I would say of my 10 favorite things in the book nine of them are there, which is a very good batting average usually it's like about six of them end up in the movie.
[SPEAKER_14]: But the one that's artists and I was the one who cut it so I think it was nobody's fault we all.
[SPEAKER_14]: There's a moment in the book or scenes in the book where they decide they have to nuke Antarctica to buy themselves time on the earth's side of things, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: And it was in there and I loved it.
[SPEAKER_14]: It was such a concept that was interesting and showed the desperation that we were in.
[SPEAKER_14]: but it was just too complicated to explain to an audience with in a short period of time.
[SPEAKER_14]: We just didn't have a lot of screen time to take the time to do that correctly.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so you would just feel like, I keep trying to do this in three pages, but you have to do this in eight pages, and I don't have eight pages to do this.
[SPEAKER_14]: I just don't.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so that is the thing that I'm sad is about that we had to lose.
[SPEAKER_10]: Right on.
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, they gave me the light, but it was great to talk to you, Drew, love the movie, can't wait to see it again.
[SPEAKER_14]: Right, for thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_14]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_14]: I hope we get to talk longer sometime.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that would be amazing.
[SPEAKER_14]: OK, great.
[SPEAKER_07]: And we'll wrap things up with Brad's conversation with Phil Lord and Chris Miller, the directors of Project Hail Mary.
[SPEAKER_10]: Phil Lord, Chris Miller, what's up guys?
[SPEAKER_10]: And Ryan.
[SPEAKER_10]: All right, so just you know, this is clear spoiler territory.
[SPEAKER_10]: We're going to release this after the movie.
[SPEAKER_10]: So don't worry about that.
[SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[SPEAKER_10]: So the ending of this movie is a big swing, but it's so wonderful that you've stuck to taking Rylan to Rocky's planet and having him teach the children there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, we were all all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're true.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got her that we were going to hold the line on this ending.
[SPEAKER_10]: That's great, but at the same time, it also feels like it's slightly less definitive in the book, almost like an inception kind of way where people can decide if he maybe wants to go back to Earth or if he stays on Aaron.
[SPEAKER_10]: What was the development process?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's thought process.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is that like, it's more powerful if it's a choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, yes, if he's marooned there, that's one thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: If he has the chance to go back and he would rather stay, that tells you everything about that relationship.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah absolutely.
[SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, and so I think we try to keep this like the spirit of that scene, but we also thought there was like something, we want to make sure that it felt really hopeful.
[SPEAKER_08]: And so that's why we built this much larger terrarium for him to be in and had to be on the beach.
[SPEAKER_08]: Because we sort of set up this sort of beach theme with the don't go crazy room and some of his sort of fantasies about Earth.
[SPEAKER_08]: and the fog and we wanted to feel like oh I'm getting something that feels like I could be here forever if I wanted to be and I'm I'm getting to be sitting on the beach next to my best friend.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah exactly.
[SPEAKER_10]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then of course the Muppet Babies that wouldn't want to end your movie with like 50 little Muppets.
[SPEAKER_10]: I think your dreams come true.
[SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_10]: So what was the design process like for creating Rocky as an alien character who lacks any real human features?
[SPEAKER_10]: How did you determine the best way to make him lovable without being too cutesy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we did a lot of iterations a lot of drawings.
[SPEAKER_03]: It took about a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_03]: We worked with Neil Scanlon and this amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: team at the creature shop that we'd worked with before and, you know, we just like sculpted and sculpted and drew and drew until you would look at some like one of his like facets and go like, I like that guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that rock.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[SPEAKER_08]: The Bill Tully is like, people were building like these prototypes out of foam and things until we got to a shape that we're like, that's appealing.
[SPEAKER_08]: We like this.
[SPEAKER_08]: Now we're going to dig in and make sure that each
[SPEAKER_08]: each side of his carapace can be slightly different so we can give you a slightly different expression and then we worked for a long time about like what kind of carvings he would put onto his body like like tattoos that would show like his his rank his his mission patch his wedding band he had like a house tartan for his family on his front two forums he had some because he's an engineering head like a root slide rule and other stuff on his body that we
[SPEAKER_08]: We wanted to give him a lot of visual interest that we didn't necessarily explain to the audience, but we knew what it meant, and that would make you feel like, oh, this is a rich world, and there's so much to look at, and I don't quite get a good look at everything all at once, and so he kept him interesting.
[SPEAKER_08]: Then of course, it was James Ortiz and the puppet team, and the animators who really brought him to life and made him, made you believe him through their movement.
[SPEAKER_10]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_10]: Now, did you guys sneak any Easter eggs in here?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yes, I would say the movie starts and ends with two sounds that we put in every single movie, one of which is the Chris Miller cough in the rear right surround channel.
[SPEAKER_08]: Any other one is a dolphin sound that is hidden amongst the Muppet babies.
[SPEAKER_08]: And that's, that's, that's, that's that, I mean, there's.
[SPEAKER_03]: The iconic, also our disco ball is there, that's been in quite a few films.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sandra's too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So one of the things that we kept trying to cram into the movie just didn't stick was this idea that after Grace went off to space, people did not
[SPEAKER_03]: co-operates.
[SPEAKER_03]: The government's turned on Sandra and dragged her before like a criminal court and sent her to prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she has a tattoo.
[SPEAKER_03]: This came from Andy, his idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so she has a tattoo that says I've been in French prison for life.
[SPEAKER_08]: in the final scene that we added back on earth where she's getting the message that the gray center.
[SPEAKER_08]: She has a little tattoo that has a V with a line through it, meaning V is in life and then the line mean without parole.
[SPEAKER_08]: And so Andy thought that she had
[SPEAKER_08]: Like gone to prison with that parole, but then had broken out of prison from her connections and then was sort of on the lamb trying to still trying to save the world.
[SPEAKER_08]: And so that's like just a slight thing that no one would ever understand or know, but that's also part of the way that you make a movie feel like the world is rich is having like these like
[SPEAKER_10]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_10]: Well, they gave me the light.
[SPEAKER_10]: Uh, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_10]: Great to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_10]: I hope we get to talk again sometime.
[SPEAKER_07]: Please.
[SPEAKER_07]: Any time.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm joined now by slash film editor BJ Collanjolo.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hi, hi, hi.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, BJ.
[SPEAKER_07]: What did you think about ready or not?
[SPEAKER_07]: Here I come.
[SPEAKER_07]: I refuse to call it ready or not, too, because as I learned when I
[SPEAKER_07]: the numeral 2 is not on screen in the film, even though the studio kind of insists on calling it right or not too, which I can't part of me understands, but come on, it's ready or not here I come.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is exactly what I wanted it to be.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is exactly what I wanted them to do with a sequel, a sequel that I honestly was not sure how they were going to do or justify because
[SPEAKER_05]: The first read you're not, I think, is such a perfect contained movie that, like, if that was the only movie in that world we ever got, I would have been very happy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they figured it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: They really figured it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: They gave us the, like, exactly what you love, but more.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's all I wanted.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't, I have no complaints.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: I thought this was okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like pretty fun.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't think I'm really going to be thinking about it a ton going forward, but I think it was like a worthwhile follow up.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if it's going to be necessarily like anybody's favorite movie of 2026 or anything, but I enjoyed several aspects of it.
[SPEAKER_07]: a movie where like, really heightened stuff is happening all around them and they are able to kind of ground the movie and like give it an emotional core that I thought worked really well.
[SPEAKER_07]: And they just like seem like actual sisters, you know, like that that seems like a very familiar relationship to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: What did you think about that component there dynamic?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I thought that was perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, even just from the announcements and they said that
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank god, like how has no one done this yet because they just work so well bouncing off of each other I will say they didn't interview with a thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was some art and interview with a Perry Nemrowf where she did impressions of Catherine and it's like oh these two Get each other like on a molecular level and so watching them play off of each other and also have this like
[SPEAKER_05]: very genuine relationship in this movie where people are, you know, exploding, and the Illuminati Devil Cabal are like trying to kill them.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's really lovely to have that sort of grounding element similarly to in the first movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're seeing some are weaving, you know, processing in real time.
[SPEAKER_05]: that the man she thought she was in love with him and was going to marry, like, knew this was a risk and didn't care.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and so I think it changes the focus a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it also is an interesting, uh, kind of emotional center in that Grace has been through this before.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she's a little traumatized.
[SPEAKER_05]: This movie picks up like immediately after the end of the first one.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so not only is she having to like put her own emotions of like,
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god, I'm doing this again a little to the side, but there's also this reunion element with the sister and the sister being new to this world and not knowing what to expect like there's a lot going on here and they handle it beautifully
[SPEAKER_07]: I want to put up a spoiler warning here because I want to talk about what happens at the very end of this film and just kind of broadly what you think the movie might be trying to say.
[SPEAKER_07]: So if you've not seen, ready or not to, please check it out and then come back and listen to the rest of this conversation.
[SPEAKER_07]: PJ has some interviews that we're going to play with several of the folks behind the making in the movie.
[SPEAKER_07]: What do you think about like the messaging of the movie, the thematics?
[SPEAKER_07]: the film ends with like a pretty amusing I thought sequence where for all intents and purposes what is just like the ring of power of this movie is thrown into a pit and then everyone just like leaps into it and you know and just this this very obvious like quest for power metaphor and like how that can just rip you apart basically but aside from that which was very like on the nose and an enjoyable way what did you think that this movie was trying to
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, so I think that I really like and respect about radio silence is that the politics of this movie are not subtle.
[SPEAKER_05]: The politics of the first movie were not subtle, and they quadrupled down in this movie are introduction to David Cronenberg is calling for a ceasefire in the Middle East, and then it happens like
[SPEAKER_07]: is having one second later, which I cackled out loud in the theater because he's literally on the phone and he's like approved the ceasefire and like I swear to God, it's within like two seconds not only has whatever you know the the line of power that he is connected to made these decisions, but literally the chiron on the breaking news channel that he's watching is already updated.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's like so fast that
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, it's absolute perfection.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so with that in mind, like to me, this very much feels like a similar ending to something like cabin in the woods, where it's like, yeah, if we want things to get better, we have to burn it all down.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we just have to, because as long as there are these little threads, still available, still connected to this world of power, like this ring of power, as you said, like nothing is going to change.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like the hydra is just going to keep spawning more heads.
[SPEAKER_05]: destroy it all.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what makes it more enjoyable is that unlike Kevin and the Woods, which is straight up like kill the world, destroy the world, humanity was a failed experiment.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like no, there is still hope here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like,
[SPEAKER_05]: There are still good people in this world and they deserve to be the ones that put forth like what's going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't know, I just found like like a very interesting way to give the catharsis that I think so many of us, so many of us are craving in this world where we are all watching the meanest dumbest people.
[SPEAKER_05]: have so much say in how the rest of the world works to be able to watch people light, grace, and faith just be like, not fuck this, you just really nice.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, when she just like stabs Titus over and over again and faith is able to kick him into that pit, it's just incredibly satisfying.
[SPEAKER_07]: Um, they, I also thought they did a pretty good job with the Sarah Michelle Geller character and like the idea of not understanding the true,
[SPEAKER_07]: the Epstein files and like all this other shit that's happening right now like there's so many people who I think turn a blind eye to a terrible behavior in the world because like oh that guy seems nicer I know that person or they go to my church or whatever it is and like you know there's just like a lot going on in this very silly movie where as you mentioned people are just exploding into groups of blood and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, like the angle with the Danforth siblings, I do think is like very, very interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: That would be serimaxial color character.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Sean Hatoci's character, God, he's so good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm so sorry to anybody who's been thirsting after Dr. Abbott on Reddit or on the pit because he is not playing that guy in this movie, but it is interesting because you're so right, like these conversations come up where it's like, well, how did somebody not know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or how did they look a blind eye?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or like, this just feels like this is something everybody would have known.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you clearly were like making excuses.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, or, or, or,
[SPEAKER_05]: when you're that close to a situation, you can't see the force for the trees all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, and especially when you are this rich and this powerful, like these people don't live in the same planet that we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, they just don't.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I like that this movie is new.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, for as broad and huge as it is, there are these little nuanced acknowledgments of that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, well,
[SPEAKER_05]: Why do these systems continue to exist?
[SPEAKER_05]: Why do these people continue to maintain so much power?
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's like, well, for these little reasons, like, yeah, there are some of them who are just straight up evil maniacal assholes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that is very true.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then there's also people where this is just kind of what they've always known.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they haven't really been taught to question it until they have a blatant example in front of their eyes of this being fucked up.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to close this out before we go to your interviews by just mentioning one thing that I didn't really care for about the movie and then one thing that I really had a lot of time for.
[SPEAKER_07]: So the one thing that I wish this movie was a little bit more fun overall.
[SPEAKER_07]: They introduced this huge ensemble cast of potential villains.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I just felt like maybe a lot of those characters were disposed of a little bit too soon because what it felt to me like was the movie kind of comes
[SPEAKER_07]: Grace and faith versus Titus for lack of a better term and mostly other characters kind of fall away and like Titus is really just beating the shit out of faith like that character I feel like maybe would have died if this was what we're seeing actually happened to somebody like she is
[SPEAKER_07]: thrown around a hallway and kicked and beaten and like punched and it's just really brutal to watch and not super fun because that level of abuse is just kind of like it made me wince in the theater and like I know these guys are out to make entertaining stuff and like I'm sure they had a point that they wanted to make with the intensity of that violence but just for what my
[SPEAKER_07]: interpretation of these movies are and kind of like what my personal dial of these movies are.
[SPEAKER_07]: That felt like it was the dial was off a little bit to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Did you react at all to that sequence of the movie?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I have this moment where I was like, wow, they're really going forward in this, but at the same time, and I know this is a very unpopular opinion, even between circles of, you know, other people who have survived this kind of abuse, which I include myself in.
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel incredibly validated when I see stuff like this on screen, because I think
[SPEAKER_05]: a lot of films do tend to pull back either because they don't want to look as if they are glorifying the type of violence and they also want to be mindful of the people in the audience who might have actual experience with the sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the whole time I was like, well, I know how these movies end.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's not going to die.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like she's there's no way that radio silence is going to kill these women.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm very glad that they're showing like how ruthless and how genuinely horrible these people are like the atrocities.
[SPEAKER_05]: that the people with this kind of power commit are unfucking forgivable and the fact that they are willing to go there, I think is really, really balsy and the whole time I was just like, God, I can't wait to watch him die.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's going to be so satisfying watching him die.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Katherine Newton throws everything into this performance.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, so if anything, that's the takeaway that I had, but I definitely understand like, it's it's hard to watch at times because it is so
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, one thing that I thought was incredibly easy to watch.
[SPEAKER_07]: And this is my positive thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Is the pepper spray, fight scene in the ballroom, what's just so freaking funny, man.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's like, for those who maybe are listening to this and haven't seen the movie, Grace ends up pepper spraying, I think it's her husband's ex fiancee or something like that, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, the bride fight as they were calling it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, they are fighting in the ballroom and so these characters end up pepper spraying each other and then the movie cuts away to like a different scene I forget exactly what it cuts away to but then when it cuts back it's just these two women in this huge empty ballroom just swinging at full force at the air because neither of them can see and
[SPEAKER_07]: Though I think the music cuts out in that moment too if I remember correctly, and it's just very, very funny, they're just going like as hard as possible and like not connecting with anything at all as it was hilarious to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's so good, like there's a couple like big moments of comedy like that that I think are really, really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I mean, exploding Kevin Durand, like pretty much immediately after we see him, I think is like a very funny and subversive thing because, you know, he was an Abigail and people loved him and Abigail so much, so I thought he was going to be like a much bigger player and then they were just like, nope, sorry, Kevin, exploding, that's like, that's hilarious, I love that.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, yes, ready or not?
[SPEAKER_07]: Here I come is in theaters right now.
[SPEAKER_07]: And let's go now to your interviews, BJ.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's start out with your conversation with Samara Weaving and Catherine Newton.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, first off, congratulations.
[SPEAKER_05]: The movie is such a blast.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a great time with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think a lot of horror fans are really excited for this movie because the two of you are somewhat of the patron saints of the good for her subgeneral.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now you're both together in this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: What is it about these stories that keeps you coming back to them?
[SPEAKER_15]: the fans, I think, giving them something to watch, that's fun.
[SPEAKER_15]: We all know what's gonna happen, but it's about how we tell the story and it's a real fun thing to do for an actor.
[SPEAKER_05]: Good, I love to hear that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, I mean, Samara, you kind of carried an entire film in this last time, but now you have Katherine with you to sort of bounce things off of.
[SPEAKER_05]: How did that change your approach to playing grace if at all?
[SPEAKER_16]: Um, I don't know if it changed much, but what was great was that in the first one, she was very much on her own in these situations.
[SPEAKER_16]: And now it was great because we could have, I could have someone to
[SPEAKER_16]: bounce off of like he said and like talk to and have that the comedy and the drama within the stakes of the situation, which was what was exciting for me.
[SPEAKER_15]: I think it was less bouncing off of just another obstacle.
[SPEAKER_15]: Just another problem.
[SPEAKER_15]: It wasn't enough to have to face death.
[SPEAKER_15]: You know, now she's got her little sister who's annoying.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Katherine, you've been playing these characters that, I think, orphans have really, like, glomed on to and they're ones that you've made your own.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now with this movie, you're entering into this world that so many fans love so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did that change your approach into playing this character knowing what people feel about right or not?
[SPEAKER_15]: Yes, yes, it was a big deal.
[SPEAKER_15]: It big honor to be asked to be a part of her now franchise.
[SPEAKER_15]: So there was that.
[SPEAKER_15]: But then the thing that freed me from that was the script.
[SPEAKER_15]: The role was written for me, and it felt like me, and it felt better than me, and I was like, well, I have to honor the fans, but I'm also like,
[SPEAKER_15]: I have to go all the way and hopefully they like it because there's so much of me in the role.
[SPEAKER_15]: So you can't, you know, it was like, well, it opened it up for me.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I really hope they love it.
[SPEAKER_15]: I love the movie.
[SPEAKER_15]: I think it's the best one I've done.
[SPEAKER_15]: So, oh, I love it.
[SPEAKER_15]: I have high expectations for the fans.
[SPEAKER_15]: I thought about them and hopefully they like it, hopefully incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: And on that note,
[SPEAKER_05]: When people see this movie in the theaters with their friends, and they are immediately entering the lobby of the movie theater and kind of chattering about what they just saw What sort of conversations are you hoping they're having?
[SPEAKER_16]: Going into it?
[SPEAKER_16]: Or leaving?
[SPEAKER_05]: Leaving it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, leaving.
[SPEAKER_05]: Once they've seen it.
[SPEAKER_16]: They're going to go Catherine Newton.
[SPEAKER_16]: So hot.
[SPEAKER_16]: Catherine Newton.
[SPEAKER_15]: I was going to go that.
[SPEAKER_15]: It was so stupid when she hit her in the face.
[SPEAKER_15]: You're like, why did she do that?
[SPEAKER_15]: Why did they go in the house?
[SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[SPEAKER_15]: Oh, that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_16]: What?
[SPEAKER_16]: No?
[SPEAKER_15]: No, like, do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_16]: Oh, you do.
[SPEAKER_15]: I do.
[SPEAKER_15]: I want them to talk about how stupid you were.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_15]: I don't think.
[SPEAKER_15]: Or like, what they would have done.
[SPEAKER_15]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_15]: Just hopefully things that spark a combo.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's my favorite thing.
[SPEAKER_15]: I do that when I go to the movies, I watch people coming out and like, whatever ones people are smiling coming out.
[SPEAKER_15]: I'll be like, would you see and then go see it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that is the time that I have with you both today.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you both so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: And again, congratulations.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll be such a blast.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then here is your chat with Elijah Wood and Sarah Michelle Guller.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the two of you have such an impressive resume within the genre so much so that there are people who will show up to see a movie just because you're in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Does this have an impact on the rules that you take?
[SPEAKER_05]: And if so, what is it about this story, this world that they've created that made you want to put this as part of that impressive resume?
[SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I don't, I don't bear the weight of the world that I've been in the past and my decision-making.
[SPEAKER_17]: Um, yeah, I don't add that.
[SPEAKER_18]: No, I think, you know, purely motivated by a couple things, filmmakers that I slash we love.
[SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure you feel the same way.
[SPEAKER_17]: Just speak for me because we have the same answer.
[SPEAKER_18]: Um, and, you know,
[SPEAKER_18]: Fun opportunities that you have sort of a gut response to this was, you know, a sequel to a film that we loved, made by a directing duo that we've been following for a long time and loving their work.
[SPEAKER_18]: And it was a rare opportunity to work on a sequel for something that is so good that is sort of deepens the narrative of the first film.
[SPEAKER_05]: beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this movie is also so much fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think right now we're on this precipice of a big resurgence of fun horror movies.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I would love to know from each of you from your perspective.
[SPEAKER_17]: They ever go away.
[SPEAKER_17]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_17]: I will say this that post-COVID, I think it took a lot to get people to come back to the theaters.
[SPEAKER_17]: And initially, I think
[SPEAKER_17]: the first thing that really got people back in the theaters was genre movies, because it's the type of movie that you really enjoy seeing collectively, like every group, like you want those people that jump in the movie.
[SPEAKER_17]: You want, you know, and I think what's so great about radio silence is that they're willing to push the envelope in this genre, right?
[SPEAKER_17]: They'll push the comedy, the drama.
[SPEAKER_17]: I argue that there's a love story in this movie.
[SPEAKER_17]: It's a love story between two sisters, you know?
[SPEAKER_17]: So not to, not to say that there's a genre come back.
[SPEAKER_17]: really people are always wanting to see more from and more originality.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, horror is the most prolific and profitable genre that we have, but I think for
[SPEAKER_05]: like the end of 2010s into the early 20s there was so much like trauma-based horror.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of grief for her and now it's like like dark.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I got very dark because I think we got very dark.
[SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we're pretty dark right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I start right now, but at least I think the response to it is like, let's blow shit up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's blow people up, which is kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I'm curious from your perspectives, like what is the value of the resurgence of fun?
[SPEAKER_05]: Why do we need it so much?
[SPEAKER_18]: It's a little brightness in our days that are already filled with darkness, right?
[SPEAKER_18]: And I think, you know, genre is always fun, but some of it can be painful and cathartic, and this sort of film is a game, and it's a ride, and the audience gets to sort of forget about everything and go on this fun ride that the characters are going on.
[SPEAKER_17]: I also think that, you know, with these little devices, right?
[SPEAKER_17]: People just are always looking for those moments to, like, look down at their phone, and we're so connected to that.
[SPEAKER_17]: And we look, as a society, we create those moments to not have it.
[SPEAKER_17]: We just don't know how to do it.
[SPEAKER_17]: And I think when you go to a movie, and you see this type of movie where you can't miss anything, it also gives you that release of that device.
[SPEAKER_17]: That's so true.
[SPEAKER_05]: I agreed completely.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have time for one last question.
[SPEAKER_05]: So,
[SPEAKER_05]: what sort of conversations are you hoping that people are going to have once they've seen this movie with their friends in the theater and they walk out into the lobby and they have those immediate reactions.
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you hoping they're saying?
[SPEAKER_18]: How sick was that bride fight?
[SPEAKER_17]: That's what I, that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what I walk out saying that's what I walked out saying Incredible well that is the time I have with both of you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: And congratulations.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some of the is such a blast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's very sweet.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you too.
[SPEAKER_07]: And we'll wrap it up for this section with your conversation with radio silence.
[SPEAKER_07]: The directors are at least a couple members of radio silence.
[SPEAKER_07]: Co-founders open.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, and Tyler Gillett, who are the directors of this movie, which I mentioned audio wise, the junket got a little wonky at one point.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you're like sitting near them.
[SPEAKER_07]: So your audio is going to be a little quieter than it was in these other interviews, but I think people will be able to hear it just fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, and they're yapper.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you don't got to worry.
[SPEAKER_05]: They do most of the talking.
[SPEAKER_07]: Excellent.
[SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[SPEAKER_07]: So here's PJ's conversation with the directors.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the last time that we spoke,
[SPEAKER_05]: you were diving back into original, of course, storytelling with Abigail after having done two sequels in the screen franchise.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now you're sort of having a foot in each of those worlds because you're doing a sequel, but it's to something that you've created.
[SPEAKER_05]: How has that in package across us?
[SPEAKER_09]: It's weird, we took a lot of what we learned from SRN6 in terms of not like specifics about the movie, but just kind of mindset going into it.
[SPEAKER_09]: When we were going into this and what I mean by that is, when we went into SRN6, the idea was, all right, we did SRN5, it kind of reset the franchise for a modern audience.
[SPEAKER_09]: Now let's,
[SPEAKER_09]: do something that it takes a while left turn.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so for this, we kind of had the same ethos where it was like, all right, we made it right here not, we love right here not and we're so happy it's found an audience.
[SPEAKER_09]: Now let's not be precious about it at all and make sure that this does not rest on any laurels from that movie and that we can go into this being like this has to be a standalone movie and the thing that we would say to each other and the producers and the writers even before I think we fully believed it was
[SPEAKER_09]: If we're going to do this, it has to be as good as the first one or better period.
[SPEAKER_09]: If it's not, there's no reason to make it.
[SPEAKER_09]: And so we kept saying that until it felt true to us.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd love to hear that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I know we have also talked before about the pressure that comes with working with a legacy franchise, like Spring, which has been around for decades at this point.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is now something that people hold very near and dear that you created, so it's your baby, but it's also at the same time, not your baby because once you put a movie on to the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: It becomes everybody else's.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what sort of pressure or was there no pressure at all in revisiting this world knowing how much these especially breaks means just so many more fans.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I think that there was certainly pressure in the sense of wanting to, wanting to do that character justice and continue to do that character justice because of, you know, we're certainly aware of like how people have personalized her and dress, you know, dress as her and, um, but we also think that there's real opportunity in that, you know, that that, um,
[SPEAKER_06]: What's interesting about a character is to us anyway is that they're complicated and that what you think you might know about them that there's that there's more right that there's an off screen story with every character and with grace very specifically, I think what we wanted to do is explore what that might be.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and in a way that complicates her, and hopefully makes her at the end of the day not only feel heroic because of the trial that she survives multiple times over the first movie, and then of course in this one as well, but that there's something that she also has to solve for herself emotionally in this movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we talked a lot about how, you know, the first movie is a love story.
[SPEAKER_06]: and really tracks relationship falling apart in the most genre way possible, and this one we really talked a lot about that same sort of story but inverse, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: It's a story that is about a relationship that's broken at the beginning, and it's really a romance.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's about these two characters falling and falling back in love after many, many years apart and estranged, and hopefully there is as much heroism and beauty and catharsis in that as there is in just simply surviving.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you both spend to make your lives a little bit more difficult by consistently having these large Why do we do this?
[SPEAKER_11]: Why do we do this?
[SPEAKER_05]: Combining these like living legends of the genre that people love new faces for people to fall in love with and then willing from your own roadstowry.
[SPEAKER_05]: How do you make sure that all of these characters feel distinct enough for the audience to really
[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we spent a ton of time talking about exactly that, where it's like, we don't want any characters that feel throw away if if they if there's not something that makes them special and different than everybody else, then we usually caught there's no reason for them to be in the movie.
[SPEAKER_09]: and that happens a few times.
[SPEAKER_09]: It happens in the script when we're kind of script with the guys and then also once the rule gets cast, how do you make this yours?
[SPEAKER_09]: What makes this special for you so that you can really embody it?
[SPEAKER_09]: I think for us it's a lot of our casting, it's not like we watch a bunch of tapes and go like that person's great at this thing and that thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's
[SPEAKER_09]: We watched a bunch, or I mean, we, sorry, we, we like, so I got distracted by everything.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was just counting, I'm counting on my fingers.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think there's a number of characters that we cut during development.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think we cut, I think we cut five people out of the ensemble.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, over six.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, five or six.
[SPEAKER_06]: And some of it is, and it's just recently, like, but why, why do we need this character to do this thing when it's this could just belong to this character?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_09]: And it's anything at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's that thing where it's like, you know, and we've talked about this before,
[SPEAKER_09]: We want to make characters whether it's, you know, grace and faith or a character that is only in a little bit of the movie and has two lines really memorable and something that you might identify with or you might identify with or you know I mean that there's something for everybody that you can have a moment where you go oh I get to that person they're legit I like to I name butlers
[SPEAKER_06]: in the movie played by Sarah and Kevin who have such great moments and they are so specific and so in the reaction to something so specific but you you understand so much about the world of the movie, the tone of the movie and who those characters are by those very distinct moments.
[SPEAKER_09]: One thing I was just going to add is that you know to your question about like how do we do it?
[SPEAKER_09]: we talked to people and they seem cool or we've seen them in something like that.
[SPEAKER_09]: That does a lot of it for us.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's not like, oh man, they didn't get that one moment.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's not about that.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's about the like, the feel and the vibe.
[SPEAKER_09]: And it's hopefully like, you know, you get a bunch of friends together and go, I think you guys all get along.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's not like that.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's like,
[SPEAKER_06]: it's fucking listening.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like people would when talented people like tell you like, hey, I think they're I'm good this thing and I want to try it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Fucking listen to them because they will give you something wonderful and it may not be what you had planned but it will be honest and that at the end of the day is I like that's everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah and I'm so glad that you've brought up the company as you already know that the tone of the movie is that you make really resonate with me.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's exactly what I want and I love that we're on this
[SPEAKER_05]: where I think fun for is making our surgeons, but fun for that doesn't sacrifice still saying something important.
[SPEAKER_05]: So where do you find that balance for yourselves?
[SPEAKER_05]: Of making sure that this is still an absolute blast to watch the theaters with a ton of people.
[SPEAKER_05]: But at the same time, you are still saying something about these powerful systems.
[SPEAKER_06]: You are like, you are like, absolutely saying everything that we hope people feel and understand about this movie, but all of our work, I think that that is, you know, the idea that because something is entertaining or fun that it doesn't have a message is absolutely crazy to us and in fact we think that
[SPEAKER_06]: Quite the opposite that sometimes the things that are the most fun and the most entertaining actually have the deepest meaning and certainly maybe are significant in that they let you in and you let them in, right?
[SPEAKER_06]: Because you're entertained, you might understand or get to experience perspective that if the movie was declaring its message on a soapbox,
[SPEAKER_06]: You would just like tune it out and shut off and I think we're also just so surrounded by the message all of the time now that To find a way to make a movie that has something to say but is also in a scape from like the megaphone that I think we're all just You think that is so exhausting and it's so ever present
[SPEAKER_06]: That hopefully I think that the real challenge for us and I think the I think the real work that we do is is finding a way to make all of that exist in something that is just really a fucking great time at the end of the day amazing and one of the people
[SPEAKER_09]: No, it's a...
[UNKNOWN]: I am.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, I mean, it's like one of those things where we're pinching ourselves that it even happened.
[SPEAKER_09]: He was so welcome and he was so kind.
[SPEAKER_09]: It was like we'd walk out.
[SPEAKER_09]: And I remember Elijah was there shooting a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_09]: And he was so we're hanging out by the monitors.
[SPEAKER_09]: And he has to go act with him.
[SPEAKER_09]: And we have to go direct him.
[SPEAKER_09]: And it's like, okay, here we go.
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, let's go.
[SPEAKER_09]: Hello, sir.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's like, but he was just so he obviously been doing it.
[SPEAKER_09]: He's been doing it for so long.
[SPEAKER_09]: And he knows the effect he has on us.
[SPEAKER_09]: So he was very disheartening.
[SPEAKER_09]: You didn't just tell me what you need.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like I got away.
[SPEAKER_06]: He, I remember we were both standing there, but he said to me, he was like, um, you run, you guys run a race.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes, I really lovely set.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm gonna like, I'm gonna go barf now.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, um, so, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: soon be so much fun, all the movies that you make, there's so much fun, that's not a question, this is a compliment.
[SPEAKER_05]: But what sort of, you know, feelings are you hoping at the audience is feeling, once they leave the theater and they're in the lobby, it chitchatting with everybody else who just saw it.
[SPEAKER_09]: I love that question.
[SPEAKER_09]: We talked about that all the time because it's like that's you know we want we want people to be buzzing and like not not because like oh that one thing was shocking or whatever but like come out feeling the catharsis that we hope you feel at the end of this like this this is one of those movies where it's like you know it yes it's a horror movie and it's also kind of an action movie and but at the end of the day it's like what's how they were saying
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that was such a good time.
[SPEAKER_09]: Like, I'm so happy.
[SPEAKER_06]: Why do you know, I feel so emotional.
[SPEAKER_06]: Why do I want to like hug my sister?
[SPEAKER_06]: My brother, like call my 100%.
[SPEAKER_06]: And tell them, I'm, you know, I also try to sneak in the motions.
[SPEAKER_06]: I also think, I'm just like a peer experience level though.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think one of the things that people have said about the first movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we hope that they will also say about this is like just the sort of recapping in your head of like, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_06]: Fuck yeah, was that like no that moment wait.
[SPEAKER_06]: That also happened.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my god that person exploded wait They killed that oh, you know that it's just that it's a um hopefully there is a relentlessness to the pacing and the story of of this movie that People we sort of talk about like that the movie kind of happens to you you know because it just like has such an energy and it's so loud And there is no off ramp.
[SPEAKER_06]: I know the one there was a screening an early screening where
[SPEAKER_06]: one person.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, one of the go to the bathroom during a scene that felt quiet and like it was an emotional and enough of a break that you'd have time to get up and go to the bathroom and by the time they'd come back in.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was basically.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the rides were starting to beat the shit out of each other and this this person just looked at the screen and was like,
[SPEAKER_06]: You can see the confusion of like, I'm here to hear in a matter of like two and a half minutes.
[SPEAKER_06]: And but I think that that's I think the experience of just the the ride of it to not to be like overly reductive.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's something we love that we love the energy of a movie that sort of takes hold a view really early on and just like shakes you through the experience.
[SPEAKER_05]: amazing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think that is the perfect place to end this.
[SPEAKER_05]: They will so much for chatting with me and congratulations.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's always fair.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's questions are like always just so perfect and we just love love talking to you.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm joined now by a tall handsome man with a dusty black coat and a red right hand slash film staff writer Jeremy Mithy.
[SPEAKER_07]: Jeremy how's it going?
[SPEAKER_19]: Well, there's no topping that introduction.
[SPEAKER_19]: So hey, folks, how's it going?
[SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, Jeremy, I've been wanting to watch Peaky Blinders for years, and I kept putting it off.
[SPEAKER_07]: But the fact that a Peaky Blinders movie was coming to Netflix finally got me to watch the series.
[SPEAKER_07]: So over the past few weeks, my wife and I have binged all six seasons of the show, and we cut up with the movie this past weekend.
[SPEAKER_07]: Before you and I get into our thoughts on Peaky Blinders, the immortal man, what do you think about the show overall?
[SPEAKER_19]: First of all, hats off to you for completing that marathon.
[SPEAKER_19]: I know you're under a huge time crunch, and just I'm sure a lot of people were kind of going through a similar thing once it was announced that this movie was coming in Netflix and kind of like capping off the entire trajectory of the show.
[SPEAKER_19]: For me, I mean, I kind of jumped on board this train a little late compared to people who were there from the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_19]: But once I did, I mean, I didn't look back.
[SPEAKER_19]: I absolutely adore this show.
[SPEAKER_19]: seasons one through three are probably some of like probably agreed upon to be the best of the series.
[SPEAKER_19]: And even like the so-called weaker seasons after that, I mean, I barely had any issues with them whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_19]: Some villains are stronger than others.
[SPEAKER_19]: There's really no topping, you know, Sam Neon, the first two seasons with that just amazing Irish attempted an Irish accident that he
[SPEAKER_19]: But, I mean, I really think Steven Knight tapped into something really special here in just subject matter that a lot of people were not aware of, like the P.C.
[SPEAKER_19]: Bonders were a real life gangster organization in Birmingham that like, you know, this is a corner of the world that most people would not really peg as something worth seeing in a show like this, but I really think, I mean, I just came out at the right time, if you try to do
[SPEAKER_19]: This is why I'm kind of curious about how the movies received and how the sequel series will be received because it's just so of its time.
[SPEAKER_19]: I can't imagine, you know, audiences in 2026 and beyond respond to this in the exact same way that they did when the show first aired.
[SPEAKER_19]: So, fond memories of the show, I absolutely loved it and so that just made me even more excited to see how this movie would turn out.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, now that I've seen the show and the movie I really need to read about the sequel series because I know no details about that.
[SPEAKER_07]: I remember hearing about it and like in my mind I categorized it as like, oh, that's something I'll pay attention to later once I finally caught up with the show and now that time is arrived.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I'm like, what even is the sequel series going to be so anyway, well, maybe talk a little bit about that, but we'll definitely talk about what leads up to that as this conversation unfolds.
[SPEAKER_07]: I loved the first four seasons of the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think for the most part, the writing was phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_07]: The cinematography was really cool.
[SPEAKER_07]: The costumes and sets were all on point and the performances were pretty great across the board.
[SPEAKER_07]: I guess we should say we should spoil both the show and the movie from this point on.
[SPEAKER_07]: So if you've not caught up and don't want to be spoiled, please pause now.
[SPEAKER_07]: But
[SPEAKER_07]: Jeremy, I especially loved seeing all of the surprising people who would show up each season as villains or allies because the only two people that I knew who were going to be in the show before I watched it were killing Murphy and Tom Hardy and
[SPEAKER_07]: Uh, yeah, that was like just seeing all of these guys, you know, that like, Aiden Gillin, Noah Taylor, Patty Constitute, like there are so many people who just pop up and a lot of them were like, that guy's, but for people like us and probably people who listen to this podcast, it's like, oh, hell, yeah, I know I'm in for a good time when this guy shows up, you know?
[SPEAKER_19]: I didn't expect Adrian Brody, I remember to pop up when he did.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I was like, oh, man, like, I just, and that whole season is just the revenge arc of that season, like it's,
[SPEAKER_19]: A lot of the show is like these sorts of concepts and ideas that aren't exactly novel, like that whole season is basically just a vendetta, right?
[SPEAKER_19]: But just somehow transporting it into the world of peaky binders, putting actors like Adrian Brody or Killian Murphy or, you know, just a stacked cast of guys just really, you know, kind of just living through embodying these characters and just such a brilliant way.
[SPEAKER_19]: It just makes it so much more entertaining somehow than it would have been otherwise in pretty much any other show.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like there's just something
[SPEAKER_19]: brand to it that just like it really gets a blood pumping.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and Adrian Brody, man.
[SPEAKER_07]: He was like, I could use my favorite villain, like his, he's just like, he's a gangster with vengeance on the brain.
[SPEAKER_07]: He'll appear to have seen Brando in the Godfather.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, he's just like doing this voice that is like, so, and that's, maybe that's my favorite aspect of this whole series is just, there's so many distinctive accents and they're so fun to imitate, like even killing Murphy, who's like the sort of straight shooter of this show, like kind of the straight man,
[SPEAKER_07]: He's always like, I'm doing crime for me, family, but it's really for me, self, you know.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's like, and even he has this kind of like really fun little to it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think, I mean, Sanneal was like so absurd.
[SPEAKER_07]: Chief Inspector Campbell who will hunt you down in a manner you can't even fathom.
[SPEAKER_07]: Like the sneaky MVP of the whole show for me, I think, is Paul Anderson, who plays Arthur Shelby.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's Tommy's brother, he's the enforcer who's always relishing the opportunity to tell people that something is being done.
[SPEAKER_07]: By older of the peaky fucking blinders, you know, like every all of these characters They're like they're also different and then like Tom Hardy shows up too And it's like I won't even begin to try to imitate whatever that he's doing But I think it's my favorite Tom Hardy character and performance by far He is like so ridiculously entertaining here.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like do you have any favorite characters either to imitate yourself or like one that just kind of like left a mark on you
[SPEAKER_19]: look, there's no topping your impersonations for pretty much every single character, so I'm not even going to try it.
[SPEAKER_19]: But in terms of MVP's, I totally agree Paul Anderson as Arthur Shelby, is just he's just incredible.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think that actor, he doesn't, he doesn't appear in the movie, I think he's had a lot of personal issues, you know, kind of similar to what the character goes through auto enough.
[SPEAKER_19]: But he's just
[SPEAKER_19]: Absolutely incredible.
[SPEAKER_19]: He really brings such a like such a history, such like a life to this character that is already really compelling on the page, but on the screen he's just like you can't take your eyes off him.
[SPEAKER_19]: But for me, it's kind of a tie between him and Helen McCroy as Aunt Polly.
[SPEAKER_19]: There's just something about her.
[SPEAKER_19]: and her arc in this show and just like, you know, she really is, in a perfect world, she would be the one in charge of this group from the beginning, even more some than Tommy.
[SPEAKER_19]: And she does, you know, the back story of this show is that while Tommy is off to war, she is the one who kind of stepped up in his absence and just kind of like took over this organization and let it to a position where Tommy could kind of take the reins and then we get to even greater heights.
[SPEAKER_19]: But
[SPEAKER_19]: just the fact that she's kind of like the angel on Tommy's shoulder kind of also like the devil on his shoulder too kind of like trying to steer him down this very specific path she goes through her own or the loss of a child just all of this devastating you know sorts of events and she's just she's amazing she brings such texture and such like layered backstory to this character that I mean like I never would have imagined like
[SPEAKER_19]: how you can write a character like this to begin with, but then just implementing that through every single season up until that dresses on time, we death, unfortunately, and we have due to cancer, I believe.
[SPEAKER_19]: That was just her, her weave in the show like that, it's just so heartbreaking, but the way that the final season finds a way to kind of keep her part of the action and in surprising ways,
[SPEAKER_19]: the movie as well, but we'll get into that later on.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, man, she is so good.
[SPEAKER_07]: She's definitely one of my favorite characters as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: Tommy Shelby is one of those guys who's always one step ahead, right?
[SPEAKER_07]: And for the first four seasons, a new antagonist would pop up and there would be some big clash and eventually Tommy would get the better of them.
[SPEAKER_07]: But in season five,
[SPEAKER_07]: two things happened.
[SPEAKER_07]: A director named Anthony Bern took over behind the camera and directed the entire rest of the series.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think he was not a great fit for the show because every episode that he directed, there would be at least one decision that he made about how to move the camera or stage a scene or something that would be so distracting that it would take me out of the story when I did not feel that way at all in the first four seasons.
[SPEAKER_07]: So that was one thing that
[SPEAKER_07]: going head to head against a policeman or rival gangsters or people like that.
[SPEAKER_07]: The show increased the scope and had him try to take on fascism and introduced this real world figure of Oswald Mosley, who I didn't realize was a real person,
[SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like the show kind of hit a wall there and didn't quite know how to fully wrap its arms around that huge subject matter and mostly is the villain of the 5th and 6th seasons, but he never gets his come up in like those other ones do.
[SPEAKER_07]: because the show was trying to stick close to these real-world events.
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's just inherently as a viewer is not as satisfying, especially when he's more evil than any of the low-level jackasses that the picky blinders faced off against until that point.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what did you think about how the show handled that expanded scope?
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I mostly agree with you on that.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's just, you know, same-class one.
[SPEAKER_19]: He's so great as Adolf Mosul II.
[SPEAKER_19]: So I'm kind of split on this and that I'm glad he's in the show and that he was able to present such a threat to Tommy and like, you know, his entire family basically.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like he, the bar none, there is no other villain in the show, even including Sam Neal's character, who presents that big of a threat to, you know, picky blinders, yes, but also like the world at large.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like this is a seriously evil man.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think it was a mistake to hue so closely to the historical character, the historical real-life figure.
[SPEAKER_19]: Instead of just like maybe taking the loose inspiration of that character, changing his name, changing his backstory, adding the quintessential peaky bindage flare to him, and then doing the wrong thing with him from there, because objectively speaking, if you're looking at this show, and especially the last few seasons, you would think,
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, he would be the main villain of a spin-off movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like it would seem like everything's building towards this final confrontation.
[SPEAKER_19]: between Tommy and Oswald Mosley.
[SPEAKER_19]: And it just never happens.
[SPEAKER_19]: You kind of like sorely fades away in the final season and he's replaced by like, you know, I don't mind the final season that much.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's basically Tommy going up against his cousin, Michael Gray for the entire final season.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's just, you know, you can't top a character like Oswald Mosley compared to that.
[SPEAKER_19]: It is just, I felt like that was one major misstep I think in the final season for me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I really like the guy who plays Michael as well, but I feel like even that character was kind of sideline in that last season.
[SPEAKER_07]: It really felt like he was introduced as he was going to be the big bad for that final season.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then he's just kind of like in prison for a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then like, oh my god, his relationship with Ania Taylor Joy, like she, I like her as an actress.
[SPEAKER_07]: And she's terrible in the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's probably like the character more than the actress, but well, man, I really hated that character.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: So let's talk about the immortal man.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you have a review up on slash film.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to drop that in the show notes and I encourage people to take a few minutes to read that.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'll start with this.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think there's an original sin in this movie and that is Tommy killing Arthur.
[SPEAKER_07]: basically off camera in a flashback.
[SPEAKER_07]: I just thought that was like a horrendous decision and I didn't buy for a second that Tommy would do that.
[SPEAKER_07]: So how did you react when you saw that happen?
[SPEAKER_19]: So if you kind of look at, you know, which I did, you look at the Peaky Bonger subreddit and just to see, you know, that's like the most direct way to get a taste of how fans are reacting to any,
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, the most passionate fans are reacting to 10 given thing and they're basically an open revolt over this and I kind of don't blame them like this is such an out-of-left field turn for a character who for the entire of the show
[SPEAKER_19]: Whatever y'all see might say about Tommy Shelby, family is his number one priority.
[SPEAKER_19]: He might, you know, he might backstab them, he might go through, he might, you know, do some really horrendous things in service of that goal.
[SPEAKER_19]: But at the end of the day, like, family is everything to him.
[SPEAKER_19]: So if you think there is one line he wouldn't cross, it would be this.
[SPEAKER_19]: And especially with Arthur Shelby as a character, you know, this is someone that he's literally been in the trenches with in World War I.
[SPEAKER_19]: And that kind of, you know, that was what kind of forged them,
[SPEAKER_19]: in the fire to become the characters that they are in the show.
[SPEAKER_19]: And just to see how that goes down in the movie is kind of bizarre.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's, you know, the movie teases all these flashbacks, these memories of something going down between Tommy and Arthur.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's revealed early on that that Arthur is dead.
[SPEAKER_19]: So, you know, that this is kind of building towards a revelation of some sort of exactly how, you know, the circumstances but behind how he died.
[SPEAKER_19]: And the ultimate reveal is just, it's both,
[SPEAKER_19]: shocking and like anti-climactic at the same time.
[SPEAKER_19]: Because you never actually, you know, the movie goes out of its way to kind of keep artler in the shadows.
[SPEAKER_19]: They couldn't bring back Paul Anderson to reprise his role.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I really think that was like to the detriment of the movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: I don't, I'm not necessarily against the choice so to speak for the character.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think there are ways to kind of show that Tommy
[SPEAKER_19]: has gone a little too far, he's really lost his way, and this is his ultimate failing as a character, but as it is in the movie, I just didn't buy it, it is just not convincing whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's like one line of dialogue or something to explain why Tommy did it and it basically boils down to like he was drunk and annoyed with him or something and I'm like he spent all six seasons being drunk and annoyed with Arthur like that is what the show and what the dynamic is so it just like really threw me for a loop when that happened and I have
[SPEAKER_07]: I just felt Arthur's loss in such a huge way here, not in the emotional way that I think Steven Knight, the writer, the movie and the creator of the show who wrote every single episode of the series and then director Tom Harper, and on the way that I think they wanted me to, but more in like a this movie has an Arthur shaped hole in it kind of way.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think the other thing is that the movie really wants you by the end to invest in Barry Kieogen as Duke Shelby, which is Tommy's other son, sort of secret son that we've find out about late in the series.
[SPEAKER_07]: And because we haven't actually spent that much time with Duke and the time that we do spend with him in this movie, he's not exactly on the same page as Tommy, I wasn't nearly
[SPEAKER_07]: Maybe it was Arthur who had to pull the trigger and had Tommy in his arms at the end.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what did you think about the way Duke was incorporated into this and how Barrick Yogan worked for you?
[SPEAKER_07]: And then I guess just like how the story is a whole wrapped up for Tommy.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, so you kind of hit on basically my two main issues with this movie, first Arthur and then, you know, the Duke character.
[SPEAKER_19]: I do think Barry is really, really good in the role.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think he was basically born to be in this world.
[SPEAKER_19]: And like, he's tried, the actor is tried to get into, Peaky Blinders, the franchise for years, for the show.
[SPEAKER_19]: And then to finally, you know, everything aligned.
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, and everything aligned in such a way for him to finally, you know, appear in the movie like this.
[SPEAKER_19]: As much as I like the casting as I much as I want it to like the dynamic between kind of a father and an estranged son and the sins of the past coming back to kind of ruin him in the present, it's just the movie is really depending on this history, this established history, this dynamic between the two characters that all of it happens off screen.
[SPEAKER_19]: We don't get to see any of that and the show of kind of touches on this.
[SPEAKER_19]: Um, but again, that's a younger version of the character played by completely different actor all together and by the time you're reintroduced him in the movie, he might as well be a completely different character altogether.
[SPEAKER_19]: It is just the movie has to do so much, um, establishing of just, you know, this new status quo and it's not able to hit the ground running whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_19]: So I felt like that.
[SPEAKER_19]: was such a missed opportunity, maybe if it was at Arthur character, even, you know, a lot of people forgot, there's another brother fan, I think.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like in the show, he's kind of like exiled from the family, he's forced to leave.
[SPEAKER_19]: And like maybe bringing him back might have been a better move.
[SPEAKER_19]: I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_19]: I just felt like there must have been other ways to kind of approach just from a narrative point of view that would have hit a little harder than just this new character that we've really barely gotten an O before.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's unusual to watching this movie because the format obviously is so different than what we've seen in the show and in the show you've got six hours basically six episode seasons to spread a story out and in this it feels like everything is kind of on hyper drive because you only have two hours or whatever.
[SPEAKER_07]: I actually think the story that they're telling here with Tim Roth as a villain and like the.
[SPEAKER_07]: Nazi forged currency and all that kind of stuff works in the movie's favor because it goes small again versus that like season five and season six.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's try to take on fascism at large kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: Tim Roth is like a more achievable gold for the movie to kind of overcome, you know, like an obstacle.
[SPEAKER_07]: So I thought like story-wise, that stuff worked and then like the music and the look of it, and all of that, like it felt very much like Peaky Blinders to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, those two big things, the Arthur of it all and then the Duke Shelby of it all just kind of like made the experience feel like a little less satisfying overall than I would have hoped for a long anticipated for other people Peaky Blinders movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think I agree with that and but like at the same time as much as you know we're focusing on these you know kind of like debilitating you know issues with at the heart of the movie I really did kind of enjoy just how little like it's just not interesting whatsoever in kind of pandering the fans it kind of like resorting to fan service and that sort of thing
[SPEAKER_19]: I mean, just the Arthur decision alone, that's not something you do.
[SPEAKER_19]: If you're worried about blowback from fans and how they'll react to this something, that's clearly just a thought that Steven Knight came up with, it's like, what is the worst possible thing that Tommy Shelby could do to kind of set him up on to this.
[SPEAKER_19]: Maybe not so much of redemption arc, but just kind of like one last act in his life to kind of make up for that.
[SPEAKER_19]: And it's just, you know, things like that, things like not bring it back Tom Hardy, which would have been such an obvious move to do.
[SPEAKER_19]: For any pretty much any other writer out there, you know, you killing Murphy and Tom Hardy reuniting on the big screen like that's just an obvious thing to do and he just there's just so much restraint in this movie to avoid doing the obvious thing
[SPEAKER_19]: So as much as I'm kind of, maybe mixed positive on the movie overall, aspects like that really stood out to me, especially in this, the day and age that we're in right now where you can't have a legacy sequel or it's been off to a beloved series without resorting to these sorts of cheap tricks to bring audiences in.
[SPEAKER_19]: So if nothing else, I really, really did appreciate that aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_07]: I've read a little snippet of an interview with Stephen Knight and he was talking about how he originally had an idea to incorporate Tom Hardy's character, Alfie Solomon's into the story and have it be where he actually died when Tommy shot him in the head on the beach at the end of season four.
[SPEAKER_07]: And so like
[SPEAKER_07]: where we would learn in this movie that every time, because nights had something along the lines of like every time since that moment that Tommy has seen Alfie, it's just been the two of them alone.
[SPEAKER_07]: So basically we'd be like, we would reveal in this movie that Alfie has been a ghost since then and I'm so glad that he decided to not do that because that sounds pretty disastrous.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, anyway, that's part of that restraint that you're talking about
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, well, yeah, let's go now to your conversation with Stephen Knight, the writer of every episode of the show and the writer of P.C.
[SPEAKER_07]: Blender's The Immortal Man.
[SPEAKER_19]: So I just want to put it out there right at the start there.
[SPEAKER_19]: We're going to be holding back this interview until after the Netflix debut.
[SPEAKER_19]: So we can go boilers here with that in mind.
[SPEAKER_19]: I'd like to start with the topic that's probably on everybody's minds and the ones you're going to be asked about the most today, which is the decision to kill off Tommy Shelby.
[SPEAKER_19]: Was that always the plan from the moment that you sat down to write the script or was there ever an alternative, you know, at any moment where you're considering that time you could maybe make it out of this alive?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I always wanted this to be the final end at the end of this chapter all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it is a fitting end and, you know, watching it in theaters, seeing the emotion of the fans who are watching him, you know, same farewell to him is, it is, I think, the correct thing to do and the helium was always in favor of doing it this way.
[SPEAKER_19]: I know a lot of fans, you know, since he mentioned the show and how that ended and it was just such a perfect, it felt such a perfect send off of the character.
[SPEAKER_19]: Obviously a lot of fans, you know, maybe you might have, we're looking forward to this movie, but it maybe had some trepidation about kind of stepping on that ending and kind of adding this additional chapter.
[SPEAKER_19]: Did you ever feel that pressure at all when you're making this movie and like kind of... No, not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in retrospect, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can understand why people would think that and it's good that people felt that the series ended in a, in a, a appropriate way, but I didn't really want him just ride nothing to the sunset as if he lived happily ever after because the baggage that he has.
[SPEAKER_01]: already, you know, and Cowler says you live in a house haunted by people who died as a result of you, but that was sort of wasn't enough to explain his exile.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted him to have done something that he can't forgive himself for, and that is the killing of his brother, which is revealed about halfway through the movie.
[UNKNOWN]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to add that to the mix and then to bring in back for one final act, which is, as he said, it's a good, from this bad will come good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to do a good thing to save his son and also save his country.
[SPEAKER_19]: Now, that kind of leads me to the title of this movie, which I have to admit, I didn't fully understand until I went back and rewatched the show leading up to the movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: I think it's in season six where Tommy kind of mentions that he's going to be this ordinary mortal man after he receives what he thinks is the diagnosis about the terminal illness.
[SPEAKER_19]: When you wrote those lines in season six.
[SPEAKER_19]: Did you have an in mind that you're going to kind of repurpose that as a title for this movie or did that just kind of come to you later and you're looking back at recognition.
[SPEAKER_19]: Oh, maybe I can kind of, you know, use that for the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I tend not to plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: too much and I trust whatever comes to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like a dream where it's something come so the name immortal man came to me before the justification for what it means in pure life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just liked it and he's writing the book and I like the title of the book to be the immortal man.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in rationalising him, there's a back story
[SPEAKER_01]: which I've always had in mind where Tommy and his brothers and their comrades were in World War One in no man's land, trapped and certain they were going to die and so they all sing the song in the bleak midwinter and wait for death but it doesn't come and they're reprieved and so they say okay from now on everything is a bonus from now on everything is extra.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how Tom is lived his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost been his superpower that he's sort of careless of his own life, which sort of gives him a sense of immortality.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, he doesn't really want it.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the words of John Keats, he's half in love with his full death.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that writing of the book, him calling it the immortal man is basically saying,
[SPEAKER_01]: because he's writing it for his sons.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's basically giving something to his sons that he thinks they can pass on and pass on and pass on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that element of him will be immortal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why he calls it that.
[SPEAKER_19]: Obviously, probably the biggest addition to the movie from the compared to the show is Barry as the grown-up Duke.
[SPEAKER_19]: Of all the characters who could have potentially served as sort of the antagonist to Tommy this time around, why'd you settle on Duke for that role?
[SPEAKER_19]: And what were you kind of hoping that he could add to Tommy's arc that we haven't actually seen in the show before?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, this is Tommy hanged it over the crime to his son.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a succession
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a line in the series where Tommy says at one point.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only person who can kill Tommy Shelby is Tommy Shelby.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he sort of thinks that, but in actual fact, here comes the successor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why at the very end, he says to his son, do it, you know, I'm a horse.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do it for a horse.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's very fitting that that's what, the immortality comes to an end as a consequence of his son who actually will continue to line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the immortality will be in a different form.
[SPEAKER_01]: and just getting Barry was just like, wow, he's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's so good.
[SPEAKER_19]: Is it a fair to say that kind of, you know, Barry, and maybe in Rebecca's characters are kind of set up in this movie to have stories continue.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like, I know you can't say much about this show, the future seasons that are currently filming right now, but were you kind of setting them up to sort of play larger role?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the, the, the, the, the, the some character will, will.
[SPEAKER_01]: feature in what goes forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's a continuation of the Shelby family story, really.
[SPEAKER_19]: There are a number of peaky blinders characters who you make the choice not to appear in the movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, there's wizziest still out there conceivably, alphi, Finn, even, you know, maybe even having Tommy haunted by the ghost of Grace continuing that thread.
[SPEAKER_19]: And especially Paul
[SPEAKER_19]: was there ever a version of the script where you did include some or even all these characters before and can you explain the thought process of why you ultimately decided not to feature them?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing is when you're writing a TV series you have the luxury of time and you can populate it with more characters but for the film I had to be laser focused and it has to be on Tommy so and Tommy had to have done something that is bad enough to cause him to go into exile.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the story determined who would be in in the film really.
[SPEAKER_19]: That's actually something I really appreciate about the movie that, you know, it's kind of a legacy sequel to the show, but it's not really giving into those impulses of a lot of nostalgia, a lot of fan service just for the sake of it, throwing in references and callbacks that kind of stopped the story and it's traps, was that something you were conscious, like were you trying to avoid those tropes while you were writing, or is that just like a natural side effect of your writing process?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't plan things.
[SPEAKER_01]: particularly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tend to just write, you know, as it comes to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are natural callbacks from the series like riding the horse through the streets and the red right hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just wanted this to be standalone so that people who've never seen the show can watch the film and enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_19]: There's an exchange late in the movie where Tommy kind of reveals that
[SPEAKER_19]: Paul, you once warned him about this kind of blackbird imagery and that's kind of what gives him the heads up to look out for Rebecca is Rebecca Ferguson's character and kind of gives him a heads up about that.
[SPEAKER_19]: I sort of interpreted this as kind of a tribute to Pauli and you know, the Lake Great Helen Macquarie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that your intention as well, why you're reading that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she was so great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Such a great actor, great person, such a loss.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just wanted her to be present in spirit, if you like.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's her, it's her premonition, her prediction that so you know from the beginning, Tommy Shelby was aware of what this was all about.
[SPEAKER_19]: There's one thing that I feel like writers don't get enough credit for, especially with the story like this that says long running as this is.
[SPEAKER_19]: How ruthless sometimes you have to be with the characters and the story and the decisions that you kind of have to make.
[SPEAKER_19]: There are two very dark, possibly controversial choices that you make in this movie.
[SPEAKER_19]: You kind of touched on this already, but the first one I want to talk about is the death of Ada.
[SPEAKER_19]: Was that something where you felt
[SPEAKER_19]: she just needed to die no matter what to kind of spur Tommy and to get back into the action where you're aware of, you know, kind of how fans might feel about that, whether there might be backlash or anything along those lines.
[SPEAKER_19]: Well, it kind of went into your thought process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably not to second guess what people are people are going to react.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think if you start doing that, first of all you might get it wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: and second of all, it will make it an unnatural process because there will be somebody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if there's other people looking over your shoulder when you're writing, then you're in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you have to just let the story tell itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with that, she's so great, Sophie is such a great actor.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just felt the completion of this family story, it's the end of that generation.
[SPEAKER_19]: The second decision I want to talk about is, as you mentioned before, is Arthur and how dark that, you know, when this flash capture occurring, you kind of get the sense that there's something more to be revealed here.
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, and it's just such a shocking reveal once you find out the truth of what actually happened.
[SPEAKER_19]: Was that just a matter of finding just the most tragic, the most reprehensible action that Tommy could have possibly done, and then sort of hung him back from the brink for that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, one day, he needs to have done some, I mean, he's done some pretty bad things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to take a lot for him to be so guilt-ridden that he would withdraw from the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all through his life he's been I think it would be in a good man doing bad things for a good reason and the good reason has always been his family now for him to have done what he did it for him to have killed his own brother Is huge and it's the thing that has made him the person he is when we first joined the film so it's it's a question of giving him something that big that he then has to redeem himself through doing the good thing at the end
[SPEAKER_19]: to shift gears a little bit.
[SPEAKER_19]: I wanted to ask you about your collaboration with Tom Harper.
[SPEAKER_19]: I know it's been quite some time since you kind of stepped back into this world of piggy blinders.
[SPEAKER_19]: Was there ever considered effort to stay in line with the visual style of the show that was already established?
[SPEAKER_19]: Or did you kind of want him in this enough cinematographer to kind of have free reign to kind of reinvent the style and kind of add their own fingerprints to it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean it's a bit of both, but Tom was so good, I mean he was directed some of the first series and every time we made a new series we tried to get him back and he was always busy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he worked on the first series with George Steele, the cinematographer.
[SPEAKER_01]: who really set the template for how the thing looks from the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he worked with him again on the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he wasn't a question of making that, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: The template was theirs.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a question of saying you've got to do this like this because that was how they did it in the first place.
[SPEAKER_19]: for a movie like this that's kind of in that unique position of it is getting a theatrical release, but for the most part most people will be seeing this on Netflix, on their TVs, on their laptops, even on their tablets, how did that effect your approach to blocking and framing of certain scenes?
[SPEAKER_19]: Are you doing it for the spectacle of the big screen?
[SPEAKER_19]: Or are you kind of gearing it towards this smaller screen?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what appears on the smaller screen benefits from a decision to frame it for the big screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, this was made as a theatrical release film, so it's, it's, I'm actually, um, you know, but that I think is not, it's not detrimental for the TV experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that only helps it really.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so a little commented upon fact about the, the television revolution that that happened and the way the TV is now what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: was the improvement in screens because I remember people watching TV and it's this little thing in the corner of the room that wasn't very good quality.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would have been the point of making TV, you know, that looked so great if people were watching on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: When they're I'm looking at one now screw big screen on the wall suddenly you got your own sort of little theatre you know and it's worth doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I think tell Ian and film have started to
[SPEAKER_19]: I final question for you.
[SPEAKER_19]: Peacabonters has had some really good directors come and go over the course of this series, where you ever attempted to sort of step behind the Cameron, take the directing range yourself, either for the show or even the movie as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm a writer who's sometimes direct to my director.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard, hard, hard work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do love to write and directing is a different thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got endless admiration for directors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of the work that they do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, no, I was never tempted to step into the peaky director's chair.
[SPEAKER_19]: Well, as someone who really loved both this movie, the show, and even lock, that's probably one of my favorite recent, you know, recent movies and the last decade or so.
[SPEAKER_19]: Congratulations on all this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate your time today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, Jeremy.
[SPEAKER_07]: We're still here.
[SPEAKER_07]: Let's talk a little about DTF St. Louis, which has aired.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's first four episodes on HBO as of when people are hearing this.
[SPEAKER_07]: So you've got Jason Bateman.
[SPEAKER_07]: I wasn't really sure about this show after the first episode, but after watching episode 2, I was pretty hooked.
[SPEAKER_07]: It took me a little bit to settle into the rhythm of the show, which I think is kind of hard to explain, but like a pretty unusual vibe here, but I'm curious enough about the mystery at the center of the story to keep going.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what do you think about DTF St. Louis through its first four episodes?
[SPEAKER_19]: I was on a similar trajectory to you, but it was the actually the end of the premiere where I was finally like, okay, I kind of see where this show is going.
[SPEAKER_19]: I kind of understand how it's trying to get, it's hooks into you and then I was just all the way in for the rest of the three episodes I've thought to that.
[SPEAKER_19]: It is like, I know it's early, but I really do want to say that this show is one of my bigger, pleasant surprises of the year so far.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like on the outside looking in, it's kind of a show about these three leads, as you mentioned, and they're just like, just going through midlife on Wii basically,
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, dissatisfied marriages, cheating spouses, that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I like, you know, that type of material, that sort of adult-minded material is good and important to have, you know, writers focus on for show is in movies and stuff these days.
[SPEAKER_19]: But it's not exactly like, you know, again, this day and age, you kind of need shows with a hook to it, so they're not disappearing to the ether like
[SPEAKER_19]: You know, with so many other options that are fingertips, you kind of need that like one thing to bring audiences in and the way that this show finds Kind of its own approach to doing that through, you know, a quote unquote mundane premise like this.
[SPEAKER_19]: I thought it was just really inspired and it kind of reminded me of That Netflix show beef from a few years back with Steven you long that like that was a course of a similar show where it like yes, it's about the all the headlines about it was like it's a road rage incident and everything unfolded from there.
[SPEAKER_19]: I really think DTF St. Louis kind of takes maybe not the exact same approach, but pretty spiritually similar at one, to just finding like really clever, really nuanced ways to explore topics that it does like I don't want to spoil anything for people who either this show wasn't on the radar or like maybe they haven't even heard of it, but like there's just there's a lot to this show that you might not expect just from the trailers just from the premise of it, there's there's a lot going on here and I I really enjoyed
[SPEAKER_19]: Pretty much all of it on straight through these first four episodes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm taking it as well.
[SPEAKER_07]: And there's like a groundedness to it.
[SPEAKER_07]: And I think David Harber's character brings a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_07]: There's like a real emotional realism, I guess for lack of a better term, that feels like you're really getting a window into this person's life and maybe by extension, like the lives of a lot of people in the country just kind of like this, this like sad, I'm really trying here vibe, but like things aren't really working out super well in my life, you know?
[SPEAKER_07]: There's that which feels like one show and then there are these decisions that almost feel like it puts this thing in an alternate universe or something like there will be a moment where Richard Jenkins is some sort of detective character and he's questioning Jason Bateman about something and the place that he's doing the interrogation is like a brutalist architecture lobby library.
[SPEAKER_07]: or something.
[SPEAKER_07]: And it's like in what world would this conversation ever happen here?
[SPEAKER_07]: And the show just like does not comment on it?
[SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't act like it's weird.
[SPEAKER_07]: It just presents it as fact.
[SPEAKER_07]: And like Richard Jenkins and Joy Sunday is there actually two of the people that you spoke with and people will hear that conversation in just a minute.
[SPEAKER_07]: But the two of them have a really great vibe because he's like this sort of like dinosaur version of a
[SPEAKER_07]: of a detective and she's much more like tuned in with what real people are doing and like how people actually operate in the world.
[SPEAKER_07]: So it's this very kind of like interesting buddy cop kind of dynamic between the two of them.
[SPEAKER_07]: And the two of them will be like drinking in a bar and it's like
[SPEAKER_07]: a church almost there's like stained glass or something and I'm like this is the cop bar in the show like you know any cop bar that you've ever seen in you know dingy 80s and 90s movies or something like that the cop the the bars never look anything like this so there's just there are these little moments around the edges where
[SPEAKER_07]: they just make these wild decisions and just pretend like they're totally normal that kind of like keeps the show feeling off-kilter, but in a really interesting way.
[SPEAKER_07]: Do you feel like there are any moments like that that stood out to you where you're like, wait, what this is happening alongside this?
[SPEAKER_19]: I totally agree with that and I kind of love how it just, it just treats it so mundane.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like, yeah, this is just the way this world works and you kind of just have to go with it.
[SPEAKER_19]: I wish I could remember which article it was that I had to reading about TTS St. Louis and it criticized it precisely because of that.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's like, what kind of cops is going to like, what kind of detective is going to hold basically an interview with a suspect in the lobby of their like the police headquarters.
[SPEAKER_19]: Um, in this like architecture that makes no sense whatsoever when you think about it and I'm like to me That was like part of like the hidden joys of this shell where it's just like three these things like that should be kind of abstract Should be kind of wacky and out there And it just doesn't call attention to it.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's really trusting the audience to pick up on these details and go Hot things aren't exactly, you know as you would expect a grounded realistic shell like this to be and Part of that for me.
[SPEAKER_19]: It extended to Joy's Sunday's characters
[SPEAKER_19]: Just the costuming for her character, like she's supposed to be this up-and-coming detective to kind of like help with this generational divide between her and Richard Jenkins detective.
[SPEAKER_19]: And she's dressed like, they really put her, like they focused on making her kind of like churchy kind of Mao C character who like very conservatively dressed.
[SPEAKER_19]: And just like, that is not what you would expect from a character like this.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I actually, you know, I made sure to bring this up with Joy Sunday during our interview.
[SPEAKER_19]: answer is very interesting, they clearly thought about this, they really wanted to put a lot of maybe not narrative logic into it, but emotional logic into why she would dress that way, how that informs her dynamic with Richard Jenkins character.
[SPEAKER_19]: So little touches like that, I felt like even these two characters sort of exist in their own separate world within this larger show, but just that attention to detail for me is what adds up to make this experience so much
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was also really, really entertained in a bizarre way by the Jason Bateman Linda Cardinalini character's flirtation, which I think you can see some of in the trailer, so that's not really spoiling too much.
[SPEAKER_07]: Just the way that they talk to each other in that cornhole, back yard, barbecue, party kind of situation and some of the stuff that Jason Bateman's character is saying, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_07]: Man, you're, first of all, Linda Cartelini, you're falling for this guy, like this guy is such a weirdo kind of like a loser car.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, he asks he's on television.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's like a weatherman.
[SPEAKER_07]: So like, I guess he's like a local celebrity or something.
[SPEAKER_07]: But like, there's, there's such like a stench of like the vibe is so pathetic coming off of him trying to, you know, like Mac on this married woman.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and then like her reaction to it is so intriguing because it's like how much of this is she Totally genuinely into how much of this is like ego stroking what is really going on here And you start to slowly get hints of that.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, we're four episodes in and I have no idea who's actually responsible for the crime at the center of this thing
[SPEAKER_07]: Because I feel like the show is tipped at hand in a couple different ways, but it's too early to have actually revealed the true culprit.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think because there are still several episodes left to go and like what other reveals will happen later, you know, so right I don't know, maybe I'm like playing five dimensional chess with the show or something and it'll actually be pretty simple in the end, but
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, I'm curious to see how it goes, but I've been having a lot of fun with the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's a weird watch man, but it's a really interesting show, and it's even though it has that familiar HBO, like, oh, there's a dead body in episode one kind of formulaic vibe to it.
[SPEAKER_07]: it's so different from big little lies or any of the other, you know, mayor of East town, any of the other big HBO prestige plays recently that have that kind of same opening set up kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, congrats to everybody for working on something that's so strange and like it definitely feels like a swing for it to be for this to be like one of the
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm happy that Casey Blois and the folks over there making the decisions are willing to Take a risk on something like this even though they populate it with like major recognizable faces because the the subject matter is uh, yeah, little unusual and and kind of out there for HBO stuff so I'm just so appreciative of like the kind of the material that it gives to you know our three main leads based on Jason Bateman David Arbor and Linda Cardelini like is
[SPEAKER_19]: It's kind of using our expectations of the kind of roles these actors would usually play, and it really just messes with our expectations.
[SPEAKER_19]: It really does like, you know,
[SPEAKER_19]: that could easily have kind of gotten lost in the mirror.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like this sort of thing could easily fly off the rails without a steady hand behind the wheel and I feel like show an understanding combat.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like he just, he knows exactly the kind of story he's telling, he knows exactly how to use his leads to tell this story.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I feel like that's kind of a lost art these days.
[SPEAKER_19]: You just don't see that in movies or shows, as much as you show at these days.
[SPEAKER_19]: So I really appreciate that about this, too.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, let's go now to your conversation with Reddit director Stephen Conrad, who I'm pretty sure wrote and directed every episode of the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: I think there are seven episodes of DGF, is that right?
[SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, thanks, though, yep.
[SPEAKER_07]: Okay, cool, all right.
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, here is Jeremy's conversation with Stephen Conrad.
[SPEAKER_19]: I want to talk about how, when this show was first announced in the trades, probably a few years back at this point, it was kind of reported that it was slightly different when it became to be as I understand it.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like it was based on an article, about a real life murder involving a group of friends,
[SPEAKER_19]: and then it came out a little later on that oh no this is an original story now I was wondering if you could talk about the development process and you know what kind of change how it went into what it turned into and kind of what your inspirations were along the way I have been trying to find a landscape for new suspensions we had wrapped up a couple that might little group had done
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to try to figure out another way to convey suspense in places you might not expect it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we were looking for a lack of a better word.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we explore this description anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll use it here, knowing that it has complexities beyond the surface.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to find suspense in a normal setting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And looking to find some story about some sort of middle-aged desperation, David and I had started collaborating and trying to figure out a way to work together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And David brought me that specific article and a couple others.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just started getting our hands dirty with the story and trying to figure out how do you build a world that can hold an audience steady for seven hours
[SPEAKER_00]: and then another dilemma, and then another dilemma.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you think about the word dilemma in relation to the answer to this question, you need to be able to control these dilemmas so that they'll allow for revelations at the right time, subversion of expectations at the right time.
[SPEAKER_00]: side roads, double crosses, the idea of the plot thickening, it's really elemental storytelling, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't feel like the features of that original article would ultimately lend themselves to that kind of exploration, unless I made up an awful lot, and none of us felt comfortable about making up qualities and then attributed and attributing them to real people.
[SPEAKER_00]: start over, maintain that instance that got us together anyway, which is suspense and a suburban setting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And see what we could do if we just leaned into LinkedIn to make believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't had any experience really working on a serialized true story.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want true story for for features.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's really, it was necessary for me anyway to wake up in the morning and to have an unkind of bridled set of possibilities that if I felt like I had to make a person arrive at a certain fate
[SPEAKER_00]: before I could even start to wonder about alternatives to that, that nothing was feeling very entertaining.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I learned about myself and have stopped looking at real life instances across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I'll probably never do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't good at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was a little better for what it's worth
[SPEAKER_00]: make believe version.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of that is to say, I want to find a setting of real desperation among people's lives that might seem like they're peaceful because when you get to know anybody,
[SPEAKER_00]: what you start to get to know, you start to get to know what they're contending with, what their dilemmas are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anybody, you've even got in a date and 20 minutes into that, that person's talking about how their brothers troubled, and they're worried about their brother or their mom has Alzheimer's and it is the coolest thing of anybody's lives that they're in the middle of these battles.
[SPEAKER_00]: They ask for us to rise to occasions privately that sometimes are so demanding that you feel like you can't win.
[SPEAKER_00]: The DTF St. Louis set of characters are all dealing with different emotional states of desperation or not, if not financial desperation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even something that's simple as loneliness that's driving them to make bad decisions
[SPEAKER_00]: a good use of their time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leading to, well, here's the answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go rob it back, not literally, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All we should do in order to have a little more excitement in our life is why don't this is Jason and Jason David and David, how are we talking?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just go on this, she don't your wife app and what's the worst I can happen?
[SPEAKER_19]: Not to kind of jump off that.
[SPEAKER_19]: Um, one thing I really appreciate about this show is just how like well realized, how complicated, how fully dimensional these characters are.
[SPEAKER_19]: So as I'm wondering, when you sit down to like break a story like this, are you thinking of specific actors in mind from the beginning, or is that kind of a process that you kind of discover along the way?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done both and they each have their attributes and the day that I started this from scratch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So David was coming along.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I knew I admire, well, if you had to break down the job I have into imperative, you should be, if you want to count someday, if you want to be good someday, you should be good at recognizing which actors have magic, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: leading men and actors, leading men, leading men, because people mistakenly think that that means that they're
[SPEAKER_00]: traditionally beautiful or that they take the shape of the same shape that models take.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they don't, the leading men and women that have really mattered have this other a beautiful compelling quality that they can show your eye, you can't take your eyes off of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a really stock example of this for me is,
[SPEAKER_00]: Al Pacino and the first godfather in playing Mike, and only very few people had ever seen remaining before this is obviously going way, way back.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you could watch it today and you could feel the power, the quiet power that you had by being still and conveying intelligence and power, leaving men and women have that quality.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have latent power.
[SPEAKER_00]: David Harber has this in buggy loads and he's a person I've been trying to find something to do with forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have David, David has me.
[SPEAKER_00]: What can the two of us do together?
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to now create a world around the energy that I think David has in five or six different characters he's going to interact with, contend with, love, betray.
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of these characters just sort of came to life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jason's was next and then lenders after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the detectors were really where I think the story allowed for real possibilities, for vitality, the pairing of a older police officer with a very young police officer, studying sexual moral race and kinks, facing the audience with this hope
[SPEAKER_00]: can smarten up and face the fact that these people do choose to do these things to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a type of person who enjoys standing in a closet and watching someone else sleep with their spouse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Richard Jenkins simply can't believe that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Never the less
[SPEAKER_00]: knows that this is happening in every block, in one way or another, those conceiving those to you a lot of us to say, okay, every time we cut to the investigation, we're really telling the same story, which is nobody's normal, just looks that way from across the street.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you open yourself and say,
[SPEAKER_00]: To another person, I want to hear, I want to hear the things you won't tell your spouse.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the role I'd like to play in your life is to be your secret keeper or the place you put your secrets.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you accept that really, probably irresistible proposition.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like asking, what did you just give that person now, what just happened in this transaction that you could say as Jason has to go into this, let's just tell me what, tell me your kinks and if the answer is well, I'd like to be a pool boy and you go, okay, and then he says, well, you know, that's not all, I just hope that the audience
[SPEAKER_00]: is as interested as I would be to hear what the rest of it is and when he says I would like to I would like to be a poor boy who does, you know, shadow work and gets criticized for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I want to hear you anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is starting to be it's two personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: That person now has secrets that used to be secrets and are no longer secrets.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I hope that the audience starts to want is what is the character who took these dreams, what are they going to do with that power?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to use it now to start to control the intimate partner because they shared intimacy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were led to believe it didn't, it was going to be consequence less.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it seems like it has a grave consequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea that you would just simply going to be DTF.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was all that was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_19]: Well, Steve, they're giving me the signal.
[SPEAKER_19]: So, uh, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to get that whole time.
[SPEAKER_19]: No, but I really appreciate how we had five other really good questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_19]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_19]: I appreciate how Frank and honest this show is about kind of like taboo subjects like sex and pornography and all that.
[SPEAKER_19]: So congratulations on it all.
[SPEAKER_19]: And I can't wait to see the rest of it.
[SPEAKER_19]: Oh, I hope we talk a good man.
[SPEAKER_19]: I talk less.
[SPEAKER_19]: Thank you so much, Steve.
[SPEAKER_19]: Have a great rest of your day.
[SPEAKER_07]: And then here is your conversation with Richard Jenkins and Joy Sunday.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anything else you want to say in terms of setup for this one?
[SPEAKER_07]: Or do we just jump right now?
[SPEAKER_19]: No, we could just jump right in.
[SPEAKER_19]: Those two were like delight to talk to.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like press tours like this.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like when you're the two side characters outside of the main trio.
[SPEAKER_19]: Like it could easily, these sorts of press days can get so boring.
[SPEAKER_19]: People just ask the same questions over and over.
[SPEAKER_19]: But like those two were clearly having fun with it.
[SPEAKER_19]: they had a great time filming this show, and just their characters is so fun and off-kilter that in Wazy wouldn't expect.
[SPEAKER_19]: So, watch this show for the three mainweeds, of course.
[SPEAKER_19]: But like, these two are kind of like the hidden gems in the middle of everything else going on.
[SPEAKER_07]: Awesome, all right, here is Jeremy and Richard Jenkins and Joey Suntay.
[SPEAKER_19]: So, I absolutely love the dynamic between both your characters in this show.
[SPEAKER_19]: It's just so, you know, kind of bristly, there's that sort of, you know,
[SPEAKER_19]: intergenerational thing going on to and it's just like obviously we've seen, you know, countless movies and shows have this dynamic of two detective characters trying to get along that can't get along during investigation.
[SPEAKER_19]: My question is, what were you two hoping to bring to that in this show?
[SPEAKER_19]: That was different from what we've seen before.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't think you can intend to, you know, or move with the idea of being different than, you know, predecessors, but I think what was unique about what we discovered was, I don't know, just a, it was an exchange of growth.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it was in one direction only.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, we both changed, but we changed working on the case but it really changed from what was going on outside of that.
[SPEAKER_12]: You know, it's, it's the writing and the writing is so kind of a beautifully sublime that you don't even see it happening and just in little increments.
[SPEAKER_12]: He's smart enough to know when somebody is on to something.
[SPEAKER_12]: Takes him a while to admit it, but he is.
[SPEAKER_12]: And then, then,
[SPEAKER_12]: She appreciates what he has to offer.
[SPEAKER_12]: So it's really, it's a beautifully structured relationship.
[SPEAKER_19]: Since you mentioned the writing, you know, obviously Steve crafted this whole thing from beginning to end, was there anything that you two in particular sort of brought to the character that might not necessarily been on the page, whether it was moments of improvisation with a dialogue or a character tick or anything along those lines?
[SPEAKER_12]: We didn't improvise.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, you don't need to with this, I mean, whatever you would improvise would never be as good as what he wrote.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: But, yeah, I mean, you bring who you are.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's what you're bringing, we both, you know, we kind of, I mean, I think I learned more about joy doing this than had we sat down and talked for five hours.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'd say the same.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Steve's work is just very human and so sticking into the text kind of allowed for you to discover not only things about your character, but about yourself and how you relate to them and yeah.
[SPEAKER_19]: So it's kind of in the show title that this is going to dive into like.
[SPEAKER_19]: taboo, topics of conversation, sex, pornography, all these sorts of things that kind of hush-hush.
[SPEAKER_19]: We don't really talk about.
[SPEAKER_19]: Was that something that kind of drew to these scripts in the first place?
[SPEAKER_19]: And like, what kind of spin did you were you hoping that this show would add to that?
[SPEAKER_12]: Well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_12]: I don't think like that, really.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I don't, I just like the way
[SPEAKER_12]: My generation sees it, compared to her generation.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's just, but who changes?
[SPEAKER_12]: It's me, that changes.
[SPEAKER_12]: So it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's like, you think he knows what this is, what that picture is, he understands.
[SPEAKER_12]: And he's been around the block.
[SPEAKER_12]: And he's really cool as a guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it is a to that point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it, it's special that, you know, we're presented with something that to anybody else might just seem sexual, you know, in the first episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you have the opportunity to see it in a different way and to just see it as like a human thing, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's interesting how Steve tackles these taboo subjects in a way that kind of,
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, Pills back the land, Pills back our judgment.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what we feel might be seeing and allows us to just look at it as it is.
[SPEAKER_12]: And in the last three episodes, it's even more apparent and when we talk about it even more.
[SPEAKER_12]: Now, we're going to see our last scene to take together.
[SPEAKER_12]: We, you'll see that that's, you know.
[SPEAKER_19]: Without getting into spoilers, when you're reading the skirts beforehand, where there are any kind of moments or scenes,
[SPEAKER_19]: That you kind of circled and you had in your mind, okay, I really want to nail this in particular or there's this kind of a tricky moment between two different characters or anything like that was there anything in the script that you kind of like had in your mind beforehand that you just really wanted it zero and on
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think for me, my interrogation of one of the characters was also an audition scene for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, of course, you always want to kind of knock that out the park.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, well, this is the reason I got the job.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then when I actually got to meet that character, you know, and how the actor embodied them,
[SPEAKER_04]: Gravitas, I guess.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_12]: Now, there are the first scene that caught it just, it's, it's, it's the first scene for us as when we're doing our detective work.
[SPEAKER_12]: And I say, um, you know, you shouldn't have to get up so early just to be yourself.
[SPEAKER_12]: Now, I have never read anything like that, but got to it better than that, that said more about who Homer really was, that, you know, somebody who does have empathy.
[SPEAKER_12]: This poor guy had to do all this stuff, to come here, to come here early in the morning just to be who he was.
[SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_12]: And that I just remember thinking I do justice to this guy, because, but that's the right thing.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's what he does constantly all to the script.
[SPEAKER_19]: I want to talk about the costuming for both your characters as well, especially you joy.
[SPEAKER_19]: I feel like there's something about Jody's character that's like her appearance isn't exactly what you might expect from this kind of young, up and coming to Taptiv.
[SPEAKER_19]: What kind of went into that with you?
[SPEAKER_19]: Do you have any discussions with Steve or the rest of the classroom in Korea?
[SPEAKER_19]: What was the process like?
[SPEAKER_04]: you know it's funny because again like I had my audition and the whole process of me you know coming on to the project was very quick and so obviously you know I read detective and I didn't know anything else about the character until I got to Atlanta and then I get to my fitting and it's this line of like church clothing and my mind was blown and but I immediately bought into it immediately understood what the intention was behind it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think throughout the show, Steve really wanted Jodie to kind of stand out amongst, you know, all the detectives and cops as just somebody who was resolutely herself.
[SPEAKER_04]: And while also having this very complex interior life, that we don't necessarily get to see firsthand, but that she's
[SPEAKER_04]: evoked in the clothing, and I think that was just really masterfully approached by both Stephen Mollie.
[SPEAKER_19]: Well, I'm out of time with you guys, but thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me.
[SPEAKER_19]: Have a great rest of your day.
[SPEAKER_07]: All right, that'll do it for today's episode of the show.
[SPEAKER_07]: You can find more about some of the stories we mentioned on today's show at slashfilm.com.
[SPEAKER_07]: I will link to those in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much to Jeremy for enduring my PT blinders impressions.
[SPEAKER_07]: Really appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_07]: You can subscribe to slashfilm weekly on Apple overcast Spotify wherever you get your podcasts.
[SPEAKER_07]: Check out patreon.com slash pop culture to hear more from many of the folks you heard on this episode.
[SPEAKER_07]: We have some free episodes up there that are basically like the old water cooler episodes we used to do on this show.
[SPEAKER_07]: So we would love to have you join us over there.
[SPEAKER_07]: If you're interested, send your feedback questions, comments, concerns, and mailback topics to us at beepierson at slashfilm.com.
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