[SPEAKER_02]: Let's have everybody welcome to comic book club.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am Alex and we're here with another bonus episode for you with an amazing creator I'm very excited to talk to him about his new book destination kill, which is coming out May 13th from O'Neigh Press.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ladies and gentlemen, Joe Palmer Joe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Alex.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hopping on very excited to talk about this book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, there's a lot going on here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, this issue isn't coming out for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much you want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just sort of leave this out in case I forget later.
[SPEAKER_02]: But final letter order cutoff for it is April 20th.
[SPEAKER_02]: The book itself, as I mentioned, is coming out May 13th in storage.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we got a little time there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, actually, before we get into the plot, why don't we talk about the fact that like, this is your solo debut.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you've done for a couple of different projects, usually at least as far as I've seen working with worry, reconvill and some other people as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But why was this the right project to break out on your own?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, I've always wanted to do my own stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's, I got into a thing of really, I was really just focused on making a living.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's really the honest truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it that for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was my initial goal in getting into comics as well, was just to make a living.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, once I'd sort of achieve that goal, it was, um, I sort of, yeah, kind of cruised on it for a little bit to be honest and kind of got about my own stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it did really, again, because I started having ideas, and this particular project was just that in a really long time, you know, until like eight years, like lots and lots of ideas that I was having eventually sort of culminated into this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I really enjoyed parts of collaboration, and I still would be open to collaborating in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I really, I really, really wanted to just try, try at least try and get one idea or out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and just give it a go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, I think, Yeah, I mean, I've just always,
[SPEAKER_00]: really liked the co-turfe rate, creators, and you've only got a look around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, like, for example, what Daniel Warren Johnson is done with his work is sorry, inspiring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or yeah, we're just, you know, Frank Miller, or, you know, whoever it's, it's just, I think if you're an artist, it can be,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can just get trapped in that meal of just working for other people, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's nothing in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're ending wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just if you've got things to say, then you think you've got something to say beyond just the just drawing pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I began.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a long rumbling.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to ask more about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But just to kind of lay out a little bit about the book for people, so they have some context here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is, I've had a chance to read the first issue, which I loved.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of fun in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also a lot of big sci-fi ideas going on, it definitely feels.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting to hear you talk about it being around for eight years or just dating for eight years, because it definitely feels very present with what we're going through right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to get the broad strokes London 2125 for focusing on a member of the police force, Gina Serene, who is the stuck in the middle of a bunch of different factions that are fighting over the city.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a
[SPEAKER_02]: Overwhelming, over arch incorporation, the controls, everything you've got, robot workers, you've got a resistance going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, all of these ideas are bumped in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very sikturical and very funny at the same time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to throw that out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But now that I've got a lady that contacts the stick and other step back, again, what was different for you in terms of crafting something when you're doing
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, everything, you're doing the right, you're doing the art, you're doing the lettering as well, which is also sometimes part of the art.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how did that change the process for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, it's such a layered question because it, everything was definitely really, I was so used to just receive and as script, typically from Rory and Declan Jalbe, I know you've had deck on the podcast before, so, um, but, but yeah, I mean, it's such a different experience like having to completely come up with this stuff on your own.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was honestly, it was, it was really difficult to begin with.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you ever speak to Rory, he will let you know that I sent him drafts like early on to basically get some pointers on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took a long time, specifically the writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the writing was over, the drawing is relatively simple by comparison.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not easy, it takes a long time, but it's simple at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the writing was the real challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, what was the initial question?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I've lost them right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're definitely following up on it and basically I was asking about like taking all of those elements putting this place and something that we talk about often with writer artists or doing all of it on the project is I'm always curious to hear about like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like you set down the script and then approached it as an artist.
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you're coming in as an artist, since you did craft the script, did you feel free to make changes?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you go back and forth?
[SPEAKER_02]: Were you mad at yourself?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right or self of the past, how did that work?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the, yeah, the script itself, I mean, I, I wouldn't ever do this again, having had this experience, but I didn't write a full script.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was very much working from a plot, and then adding some dialogue ahead in my head already, but I didn't necessarily write it down.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as I was going along like basically it was a very organic process of like it came together bit by bit You know, this was a choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had I had the whole thing, but it's it's yeah, it was very much a sort of making it up
[SPEAKER_02]: It was there a point when you were in the art where you're like, oh, that's fucking right or didn't fit into this script, god damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, lots of times, and that's why I say, like, I probably would never do that again, but because it's so much easier if you plan each stage as much as you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: At least for me, you know, that's, it's much simpler for my brain to not have to work those things out on the fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also you don't sort of write yourself into corners.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, yeah, you don't, you don't plot something and then be like, um, actually, I have to literally redraw, not redraw necessarily, but like, re-thumb now five pages to figure out that problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, yeah, it's, right, I think full script is easier, for sure, in terms of like doing it all for yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a lot of hard work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Scripting, it does not come naturally to me at all, so it's, it's, I've been working on something now and I've scripted the whole thing and it's so much simpler that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't remember if that answered the question, but no, I mean the third part of it is the lettering because like I said it earlier, you You know that certainly, I mean that's uh, you know at coming up with that coming up with the dialogue as I was going the lettering because it was such a At an early stage of the drawing, you know in the layout stage essentially that's where I figured out all the lettering
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really had to finalize what people were saying at that point, just from a practical point of view, it's just like, well, I'm going to be drawing this lettering, because it's all time done, it's all time lettered.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was, I kind of forced myself into doing that because I had to make the decisions, I had to stick with my own decisions, you know, because once it's down on the page, it's so annoying to change, it's like, I was kind of forcing myself to stick with stuff, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: how do you this is a little different than the lettering but there's points where you do put lettering or sound effects and they're integrated into the art and I will just say as a reader who has no artistic talent whatever I see that at a book it's like oh it's like a little treat it's fun to see so it's nice to
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it feels like just such a nice surprise, but it's really integrated into the art itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do you decide when you're going to do that as an artist?
[SPEAKER_02]: And how do you make sure you're not overdoing that particular attack?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how successful I am in that regard really.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not for me to say, I guess, but the in terms of when to place that stuff, it's just instinctual, honestly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't really pretend to know exactly what I'm doing and feel like I just do what feels right in the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know that's incredibly vague, but each, each, each case is different.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sometimes I'll look at some, it can come in from a lot of different directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes, let's say there's a huge amount of lettering in the background, like a big sound effect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I just don't want to draw the background or it actually accentuates the actual action that I'm trying to convey.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, yeah, it can be a lot of different reasons, it's the answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, I'm just, I was just trying to have fun at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's sort of, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: I started doing some of this stuff on some of my previous jobs, like on time before time, for example, as you mentioned, I played around with some of that sound effect stuff and trying to integrate into the art and just having fun with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was sort of just, I mean, I haven't had total control to do it in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and also I was lettering it, so I wasn't getting in the way of letters and it's much more seamless if everyone, if this will be in done by one person.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: You talked a little bit about your influences earlier when I was looking through the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to characterize your art in my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely leaning towards the Mark Cartoonie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the influences that I pulled out, I don't know if they're accurate.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've got a phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is always fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a little bit of a gasigabe.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw a little bit of Mike Mignola in there sometimes, maybe a little bit of Jamie Hullit as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're given diet at a thumbs up, feel it pretty good so far.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, yeah, this is the podcast for those not listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just doing thumbs up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who else, who else then, who do you belong for?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Makement Man is real big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of U.S. people may not appear as familiar with him, but he's certainly had a huge career in 2008, and very well known over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've literally borrowed from his style.
[SPEAKER_00]: Robert Valley, the animator, Robert Valley, he's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Peter Chang, who is mentor, like you have both of those guys are absolutely love their work.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could just go on and on.
[SPEAKER_00]: A timer, a cutter or a timer, I love you can't necessarily see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That much of my work, but I mean, that is one of my all motive influences, absolutely love and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of trial, you need to go to the ping pong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're familiar with this work,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is just so many.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those are like the primary ones off the top of my head.
[SPEAKER_02]: And from a content perspective, you mentioned 2018, which definitely jumped out, because it's hard not to see a cop.
[SPEAKER_02]: It a near future situation, I think that's necessarily about Judge Dread.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not Judge Dread.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very different thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what were you trying to pull on there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what were you?
[SPEAKER_02]: again I don't know how much you want to say because this as we're taping this is coming out for like another two-bots but yeah what were you looking at in terms of your satire in terms of what you're saying for the bud?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've had this question a few times because I've been doing some email interviews and honestly, it's not something I was consciously, I wasn't looking at anything I was particularly to all of this, you know, obviously I've got a lot of influence swirling around in my brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all do because we're inundated by this stuff culturally and a lot of science fiction has come before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, I'm sure subconsciously it was things like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure there's a dread to end that for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was a, I grew up with 2018 in the house, so it was around, but along with the heap of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll kind of say about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you've been there, it was big.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I was going to throw out one that it reminded me of even a little more than like 2018 stuff was the fifth element without any of the other elements.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a lot of fifth element.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just sort of has sort of like the arch ridiculous, there's characters that kind of look like Chris Tucker's character a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like there's just that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll big fan of Luke Bessons early work, so yeah, I'm not surprised that comes out a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but it's so much a bit, it's just, like I said, it's so much as a bit, it's unconscious.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not something that I'm, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have any books open looking at stuff when I was, when I was drawing the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to answer that one really.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about the real world influence then?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, how much you want to talk about this, but,
[SPEAKER_02]: one of the big things that I took away at the end without spoiling anything about the end of the first issue is there seems to be a little bit of like, obviously the status quo is fascist and broken and not working, but there's also a sense that the resistance is kind of broken and not working as well, you're not a year or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, I don't wanna put my feelings too much on it necessarily because it's, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I listen to interviews and like someone is literally telling you what they think about it, it kind of removes the audience, it's a ability to do that because then it's followed by what the creator thinks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having said that, the, yeah, it was very much looking around at what's happening now, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I started writing this in 2021, 2022.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was kind of what was happening there as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is some illusions to pandemic stuff later in the, in, not in the first issue, but later on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just political stuff in general, I mean, you've only got a look around today's world and see that at least some of, I think it'll be fair to say there's at least some of that going on right now, it's just extrapolated and heights and in my, in my book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just taking things to ridiculous places.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I mean, the book, the way at least it sort of gone out there in press releases at the moment,
[SPEAKER_00]: represent how silly the book is like it's really silly and so like I just I hope that at least comes across when someone is reading it so like it but my tongue is so far through my cheek it's ridiculous so yeah I was just trying to have some fun with it and if someone is able to see it in that way that's great
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I haven't read it, and again, without mentioning too much, I'll stop saying that in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's so hard to do to not mention spoilers, so yes, but I do think that really comes through from my reading at least, like very much, you're setting up.
[SPEAKER_02]: bad things started America.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are also coming and happening in England at the same time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the action is London, but there's this whole connection between New York and London, and it's very clear, I think, from by reading what you're talking about there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the stuff that I'm probably going to remember most for the first issue is you have a character that sort of an uber cop the way that you draw him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got one leg constantly up on a chair.
[SPEAKER_02]: going nuts with the drinking and the alcohol.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like little a size that feel very cartoony to me as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so, yes, I think the Hubert comes through, the arch disc comes through and not to model out myself, but I've always felt very strongly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kept from a comedy background first that we would always approach critical ideas being like, we have a firm idea, but let's make sure it's funny first because
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have an idea, people are more willing to accept whatever political idea you're throwing out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you couch it in humor, if they're laughing, that's sort of grieve, they're more willing, they're more open versus drama, you could get through to somebody, but if you're being very dramatic, if they don't agree with you, they're going to be like, well, no, I'm out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, totally totally get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, part of the reason for me doing this book, which sort of eludes your first question as well, always at least connected to it is,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd never really managed to sort of, you know, human is such an important part of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love to laugh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know anyone that doesn't, but it's very, very important to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in all of the work that I've done in comics, so far, I just haven't been able to express that in the way that I had it in my head before basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's no disrespect to anyone that I've worked with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't necessarily appropriate in a lot of the things that I've worked on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this was very much a vehicle to just have some crazy fun
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe some of it all and maybe maybe I like it so I mean that's that's the mate of I end I was then staying in myself, you know, let's put it that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah that was a big part of doing the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: You touched on this earlier, but now that you have done this first work, and I guess I don't know how deep have you finished it at this point or are you still?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and it's because, don't know, I mean, I finished this almost two years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been just like that it's finally actually coming out at a month or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's very surreal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it's really surreal.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thought that people were actually have this and the hands is very odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a, yeah, it's a birthing thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when it's for you, I mean, I've never had this experience before, so it's really quite, it's new.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in some ways, it kind of makes you quite vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_00]: but I'm happy that that's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted this, you know, it's just, it's just part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I guess I will know more about how it feels when it's actually out at the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the moment it sort of feels like it's half out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a lot of people behind the scenes have read it.
[SPEAKER_00]: artists, I mean, but that's kind of like they're viewing it from a certain lens.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder when it goes out to a more general audience, how it would be seen, you know, because a lot of people have responded purely to the art, for example, and said less about what they think about the story and vice versa as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But artists are weird, so that's like, it's not necessarily like
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's only a very particular reaction, you know, that we look at it like I said, they're seeing it through the lens of art.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I'm curious to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you indicated that you're already working on something else that you're going to be to yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you could say about that or two for a lot, particularly it's something I haven't even pitched yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, I'm not sure whether I'll be able to do it at the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might need to put it on the shelf for a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a financial thing, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to see whether I can basically find that support joke.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, well, hopefully not another eight years before that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really hope not, but I've got make a living in between, so we will see.
[SPEAKER_00]: that will probably drive the decision to whatever comes next.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm really excited about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really fun idea and that's an incredibly vague answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does involve animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love animals.
[SPEAKER_00]: Animals and they might be defending their home from
[SPEAKER_00]: outrageous attackers, not so bad, but I would like to say without doing too much of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough, Joe, thank you so much for happening on thanks for taking the time to talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: If people want to check out your stuff where should they go socially or other way around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on Instagram and I mean, Twitter is pretty much dead, but I am on there occasionally, just for reposting stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Instagram, Twitter and Blusky.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm on as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they say, oh, I'm sorry, Pama, I'm so pretty easy to find.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pretty easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations, Joe, and I remind of for everybody, destination kill.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one comes out from O'Neigh Press on May 13th, but the FLC is April 20th.
[SPEAKER_02]: So get your orders in to comic book shops.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Joe, thank you so much again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, Alex.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now let's just turn back to them again The little things they might get and I want to be They'll blow the mind with their promises And it's done now and it's done now and it's done now and it's done now and it's done now
[SPEAKER_01]: They sit on traffic, couches, and they left the secret loop And he's showing up, they feel like fast, special guests meet To grab your ring, hammer, don't be late, or it goes very good