[SPEAKER_14]: Hi, I'm Matt Leib and I'm Vince Manzini and this is Mad Yourself a Madman podcast where Vince Manzini and I go through every single episode of the Madman
[SPEAKER_14]: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[SPEAKER_14]: podcast app you are listening to this on um tell your friends about it join the patreon patreon.com slash frottcast uh join that and get some uh get some bonus episodes not only do you get this a week early but you also get uh you know episode of the frottcast where me and um uh uh vins and
[SPEAKER_12]: or sometimes not you like this week.
[SPEAKER_12]: If you're like man, I really like mad yourself a man except for the Matt part.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's that's what this week's show would be like because he wasn't on it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but I feel like there's very few people going to Matt part.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, listen, I'm just the Democrat, what do you want to be out there?
[SPEAKER_14]: What have you heard?
[SPEAKER_14]: I hear things.
[SPEAKER_14]: I haven't heard anything like that.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'm just saying it.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to think they would tell me.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, they would.
[SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, people do like to tell you.
[SPEAKER_12]: When people don't like you, they usually like to tell you.
[SPEAKER_12]: It is weird how or how or how.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, people will say all sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_14]: They'll be like, you're such a cheat.
[SPEAKER_14]: And that is, that's not a nice thing to say to me, and for the last time, I want people to stop taking our vibe, then send my vibe and making it sexual.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, because too many people are saying things like this.
[SPEAKER_06]: I want to see those two men pound each other.
[SPEAKER_14]: We're not going to pound each other, okay?
[SPEAKER_14]: That's not what we do.
[SPEAKER_14]: We are purely platonic podcast friends.
[SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_12]: Do a gentle and face-to-face.
[SPEAKER_12]: This is not going to each other directly in the eye.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, yeah, we would never pound.
[SPEAKER_14]: We would only, you know, slide in slow.
[SPEAKER_14]: Slide in thrust with love.
[SPEAKER_14]: Anyways, it's a, it's about some season four of Madman episode seven.
[SPEAKER_14]: The suit case, and today we have a fantastic guest, a return champion.
[SPEAKER_14]: He is our boy.
[SPEAKER_14]: This guy comes through every single season.
[SPEAKER_14]: We always give him the best episodes because he is the best.
[SPEAKER_14]: man on mad man podcast ladies and gentlemen from the wonderful podcast dopey he's back it's Dave Menheim what's up thank you I just I just want to say that when Matt was on dopey everybody loved him
[SPEAKER_11]: Even the antisemites came out and said how much they loved Matt when he was on.
[SPEAKER_11]: So I just want to say that.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_11]: I changed my mind.
[SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_11]: But I love coming on the show.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know that.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love mad man.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love the title mad about man or whatever you call it.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a great idea.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, even better even better manage yourself a man and I love I love to be here with you guys So thank you and why didn't you notice why didn't you notice that was dressed up today?
[SPEAKER_14]: Nobody noticed I did and usually it's such a slob and nobody says why are you just Stop, you know I didn't embarrass you by saying that I noticed and I didn't notice because I I was Too busy looking at your eyes because beautiful eyes and a lot of people in audio land You can't tell from just listening, but Dave has some very beautiful eyes.
[SPEAKER_14]: There's a gorgeous
[SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_14]: People don't know that they've you've been on the this show talking my man men with this is a fourth time now And each time we do ask you what is your favorite advertisement and maybe you have a new one this time.
[SPEAKER_14]: I don't know
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I've thought about that because I feel very put on the spot.
[SPEAKER_11]: The first time I think I did the chocolate and the peanut butter, the second time I think I did, fucking polio string cheese, 80s commercial.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: The third time I think I did zest so because I loved the jingle, and I was kind of scrambling to come up with something for today, but I've settled on what's that then?
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't remember you doing zest before, did you?
[SPEAKER_11]: Are we sure about it and then I'll do zest.
[SPEAKER_11]: I loved zest.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't remember you guys.
[SPEAKER_12]: I remember I'm absolutely I'm much older than you guys, but the zestfully clean jingle is always in my mind I don't know like I know like it's it's stuck in my head even though like I don't know what the words I like I wouldn't have known what the word zestfully meant the first time I heard that jingle
[SPEAKER_14]: Well I'm going to find it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Wait, is this here?
[SPEAKER_14]: You're not fully clean until you're successfully clean?
[SPEAKER_14]: Matt, you're so young.
[SPEAKER_14]: It sounds familiar.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'll be real with you.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think I do remember this, but let's hear it.
[SPEAKER_16]: Let's see if I do.
[SPEAKER_15]: You're not fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm fully clean, I'm
[SPEAKER_16]: y'all.
[SPEAKER_16]: You're not fully clean unless you're successfully clean.
[SPEAKER_12]: I didn't notice this until I was only listening to the audio, but it really sounds like it would be set at a warehouse, or she's like, yes, I'm fully clean.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it does sound like they're talking about STDs.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'll be real with you.
[SPEAKER_14]: Do you have anyone here who's fully clean?
[SPEAKER_14]: You know, this commercial was from 1991, so we're talking eats crisis.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, we're bringing that out.
[SPEAKER_11]: It feels, in my memory, it's a much slower and gruvier track.
[SPEAKER_11]: And when I listen to it, I feel very cracked out.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it's almost kind of the end of the crack epidemic.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's a Matthew Speedy feeling.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think you were multiple versions of that song, because that was like, that was, I feel like there's a slower version.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_12]: Or maybe it's felt like it was a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_12]: I did.
[SPEAKER_14]: You're right though, that does feel cracked out.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know what it feels like?
[SPEAKER_14]: It feels like something that Ellen Burston's character was listening to in Reckwin for a dream.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like this is something while she's cleaning her house, you know, before she's just like, I could be a television.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love that bitch.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's my favorite crackdown, bitch, of all time.
[SPEAKER_14]: She's so great.
[SPEAKER_14]: People don't, you know, people don't give enough credit for that movie for Yeah, well, they remember asked to ask.
[SPEAKER_14]: They remember asked, but they don't remember things like, I'm gonna be un-tellimish.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know, if you know enough stand-up comics, that energy just really, like, is it just, they exude Ellen Burst and I'm gonna be on television energy.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a, it's a thing.
[SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, not enough as to ask in the stand-up community.
[SPEAKER_14]: Not enough as to ask, not enough.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's more cracked out desperation, which is sadder.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's so much sadder.
[SPEAKER_14]: You wish there was more.
[SPEAKER_11]: Much less fun.
[SPEAKER_14]: Much less fun, you know?
[SPEAKER_14]: It's like, if you didn't ask to ask, you wouldn't have to like bark people in on the street.
[SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_14]: They just have a full audience.
[SPEAKER_14]: First, first you get the jokes, then you get the television, then you get the ask to ask.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's how it works.
[SPEAKER_14]: Uh, but this is not a show about Scarface.
[SPEAKER_14]: No, this is a show about Mad Men.
[SPEAKER_16]: And we of course cannot start the podcast without first playing the theme song.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, right ladies and gentlemen and everyone else once again talking about from season 4 of Madman episode 7 the suit case Vince can you break us off a little piece of that synopsis.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I forgot to copy it down I'll just have to do a make it out of the mirror head You know
[SPEAKER_12]: Peggy, it's her birthday, and her boyfriend throws her a surprise party, but she can't go because Dawn's making her work late because Dawn's mad about getting a phone call from Stephanie Meanwhile Duck is trying to open a new agency, and he is drunk.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's a beautiful synopsis, that is what happened, but more importantly, what was happening at the time that this episode was set in.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's right Matt, you know, we can't evaluate a period piece divorced from its period context.
[SPEAKER_12]: We got to put some of that context back in, which we like to do with a little segment that we call the news machine.
[SPEAKER_13]: I want my ass with Wall Street Journal.
[SPEAKER_13]: There is no big lie.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no system.
[SPEAKER_03]: The universe is indifferent.
[SPEAKER_12]: Ooh, that's right, this episode premiered all the way back.
[SPEAKER_12]: September 5th, 2010, which means we're going back not to September 5th, 1965.
[SPEAKER_12]: But actually, to May,
[SPEAKER_12]: 25th 1965, because that is when the Oli list and fight happened, that's right, is the basis of this episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I texted Vince and I said, hey, just FYI, there's a date for this episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: So maybe we do the news machine tied in with the exact date.
[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe we got to do that.
[SPEAKER_14]: We got to do that.
[SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, what?
[SPEAKER_12]: These are going to read your couple stories about the fight itself.
[SPEAKER_12]: Actually, I had to go to May 26 for that, because you know, they write the news.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's a good day after I think God's day after his news.
[SPEAKER_12]: Right to the chin in the first.
[SPEAKER_12]: Lewiston Maine, Cassius Clay, retained no one was actually calling him Muhammad Ali.
[SPEAKER_12]: It was very rare for them to do that.
[SPEAKER_12]: Cassius Clay retained his world heavyweight title last night by scoring a weird one minute knockout over Sunni Liston.
[SPEAKER_12]: Weird!
[SPEAKER_12]: Why is it weird, it's boxing?
[SPEAKER_12]: About complicated by a mix-up between referee Jersey Joe Walcott and the official charge with counting for knockdowns.
[SPEAKER_12]: The fastest ending to any heavyweight title in history came about when Clay caught Listen with a short hard right to the job.
[SPEAKER_12]: Listen stumbled backward, actually it appeared he had slipped and then landed flat on his back.
[SPEAKER_12]: As Sunny lay there, seemingly not hurt or even stunned, Clay stood over him shouting,
[SPEAKER_12]: Several seconds transpired while Walcott attempted to lead clay to a neutral corner.
[SPEAKER_12]: Suddenly, Listen was back on his feet and clay moved in again and started to swing again.
[SPEAKER_12]: It was at this point that Walcott, his attention, called by shouts from Clay's corner that the fight was over, checked with a knockdown counter, Francis McDonough.
[SPEAKER_12]: Walcott then stopped the fight.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_14]: I'll be real with you.
[SPEAKER_14]: I did not know.
[SPEAKER_14]: I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_14]: I didn't know that either.
[SPEAKER_14]: I thought the story was just he just knocked his ass out.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, no, there was more to it than that.
[SPEAKER_12]: In the fact, here's another headline from also from San Francisco Chronicle.
[SPEAKER_12]: Crowdshouts fake fake fake fake.
[SPEAKER_12]: So long as the public continues to be gullible, it will be treated to an era of one-round fights for the World Heavyweight Championship.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's enough to make an honest man puke.
[SPEAKER_12]: All that hoopla, all that buildup, all that excruciating analysis by this and that expert and all you see is a fast kid named Cassius Clay, hit an older and slower man named Sunny Littleston, and put him down in one minute of the first round.
[SPEAKER_12]: Professional boxing at the million dollar level may be dead, but it ought to be at least given a decent burial.
[SPEAKER_12]: It would avoid the stench.
[SPEAKER_12]: Minutes after this farce ended the crowd started yelling fake fake fake.
[SPEAKER_12]: While an appropriately furious turmoil was being staged in the ring.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love that boxing for its entire history has been hated by people who watch it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like the way people talked about boxing my entire life has been like oh, it's not what it used to be now It's all fake now.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's all, you know, uh, bought and sold and everything as uh, it's corrupt and stuff They were doing that in the 60s when Muhammad Ali was fighting at Jake.
[SPEAKER_12]: Jake the Paul had not even been born yet They're already crazy declaring boxing dead.
[SPEAKER_12]: Uh next story.
[SPEAKER_12]: We got Ruby tells of taking drug that Sunday
[SPEAKER_12]: What's on about Jack Ruby?
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, you know it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, Dave.
[SPEAKER_14]: You ever heard this guy, Jack Ruby?
[SPEAKER_11]: I've heard of him.
[SPEAKER_11]: I never heard a drug piece of it though, and I didn't know that about Muhammad Ali either.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's it's annoying.
[SPEAKER_11]: I just googled it and they said to this day, there is no universal consensus on whether
[SPEAKER_14]: So people are still like doing that conspiracy theory.
[SPEAKER_14]: They're like he took a dive.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's what I'll do.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's crazy How can you hear the Ruby drug thing?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah, how can they what?
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, I'm just wanting like, you know, it's at this point Muhammad Ali's like legacy is so set in stone That I love that there's some people just like listen look I admit he is the greatest boxer who ever lived
[SPEAKER_14]: But I still think that that shit was fake.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, they can both be true.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, that's that has that much gambling done on it.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like there's always the potential for somebody to take a dive.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like it's never, it's never going to go away.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, thank God now we can gamble on anything.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, let's gamble on what countries were going to invade or nuclear war Jack Ruby who killed President Kennedy's presumed assassin declared yesterday Sorry declared yesterday that he had taken numerous pills.
[SPEAKER_12]: They stimulate you shortly before he gunned down Lee Harvey Oswald Shit, he made he made the admission of that fucking zestfully clean commercial with elevators
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to kill a guy on television.
[SPEAKER_12]: He made the admission the first such revelation at a court hearing during which his veteran counsel, Joe Tonohill, was removed from Ruby's forthcoming sanity hearing.
[SPEAKER_12]: The question of Ruby's representation after that will be decided by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.
[SPEAKER_12]: the sensation of the hearing was Ruby's fresh testimony that he took pills which make you want to do positive things before gunning Oswald to death.
[SPEAKER_12]: I make you want to do positive things.
[SPEAKER_14]: Ruby, I love that he took ADHD medication and it makes me feel like he kind of did.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's no, I get what he's saying.
[SPEAKER_12]: Ruby said the drug Dexamil and Amphetamine.
[SPEAKER_12]: All right, yummy yummy.
[SPEAKER_12]: Well, to the American people and the world, I'm going to be branded a part of a conspiracy with Oswald, he declared an emotional courtroom scene.
[SPEAKER_12]: You're going to forget how I felt about the beloved President Kennedy.
[SPEAKER_12]: There has been so much torment, so much hardship he said.
[SPEAKER_12]: The war and commission sought for months to determine if a conspiracy existed between Ruby and Oswald, but found none.
[SPEAKER_12]: Ruby, in his sometimes rambling discourse, appeared to have given up hope of escaping the electric chair.
[SPEAKER_12]: I know that I am a lost cause as far as saving my life.
[SPEAKER_12]: Don't believe Jotana Hill.
[SPEAKER_12]: I know there is a whole conspiracy behind it.
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm not insane.
[SPEAKER_12]: My equilibrium has improved now since my incarceration and when I came to jail.
[SPEAKER_12]: If I am an
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, okay, so a lot of thoughts.
[SPEAKER_14]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, one.
[SPEAKER_14]: You didn't get the electric chair.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no, you just died of stomach cancer, I think.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love that you put that in air quotes.
[SPEAKER_13]: I like how deep does this conspiracy go?
[SPEAKER_12]: Well, he was, do people think that he was killed too?
[SPEAKER_12]: Not that he was killed, but he was visited by this guy, Jolly West, who was like one of the M.K.
[SPEAKER_12]: Old true guys, and Jolly West, is one of the things Jolly West was working on, was giving people drugs to like make them crazy and unable to stand trial and he declared that Jack Ruby was insane and unable to stand trial like the same day as he examined him.
[SPEAKER_14]: Wow, is that real?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's real.
[SPEAKER_14]: Damn, I really, you know, I've avoided any kind of JFK stuff because I'm just like, I got too many things in my life that lead me down the paths, I can't follow.
[SPEAKER_14]: I can't do it guys, I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'm too busy reading about Epstein.
[SPEAKER_12]: Sorry, actually it was a pulmonary embolism and that was about two years from when this happened, but from this new story, two years later.
[SPEAKER_14]: Dave, who do you think killed Jack Ruby?
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it was a pulmonary umbilism caused by lung cancer in 1967.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that if he was going to, I don't follow any of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, I don't, I don't even follow the absteen list.
[SPEAKER_11]: I didn't even see the movie JFK.
[SPEAKER_11]: But I would imagine that he, what if he was going to get killed, they would have done it within six months of the murder and not waited two years.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's my guess.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well they didn't need to kill him because they already drove him crazy before he before he died.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah He was all whacked out on speed.
[SPEAKER_14]: He had backed out on on M. Fedamines on methadreen whenever he was on I do I do love that at this time You could do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_14]: It still works today, which is like you just tell people after you've committed murder Oh, I'm an addict and everyone's like well that explains it has a very addict is a murderer It is people just do that
[SPEAKER_11]: It's disturbing.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's like right now that that is actually a thing and like...
[SPEAKER_11]: it's nuts that that is explaining everything away because man if you came up uh... having murdered somebody do you think you're shady past from millions of years ago would be the thing i mean i listen it's not the event turned up dead strangled by his microphone for do you think they would they would trace it back to your previous painkillers
[SPEAKER_14]: they might, that's the thing is like at this point people use, I think, any history of drug addiction is a way of making someone like immediately not a reliable person or a real person, so it's like, it's just part of the case file, like the public opinion case file against them, so it's it is, I 100% could not murder Vince without people being like, well, he did really like
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, they're going to be sticking to a lot of it up his butt.
[SPEAKER_14]: He did stick to a lot of it up his ass.
[SPEAKER_14]: They're going to check to see if you're trans first.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_14]: Nowadays, yeah, the trans things first for sure.
[SPEAKER_12]: Finally, I got another story that I feel like this ties in.
[SPEAKER_12]: Shady letters from Tijuana.
[SPEAKER_12]: A Tijuana man claiming to be a physician has been sending letters to San Francisco doctors, urging them to send him their patients who need abortions.
[SPEAKER_12]: The letter filled with bad spelling and worse grammar, but glowing praise for the writer's clinic was described in full in the just published main issue of the San Francisco Medical Society Bulletin.
[SPEAKER_12]: The use of the word abortion is carefully avoided, but the Bulletin editor commented that the implications of the letter speak more loudly than the letter.
[SPEAKER_12]: The author of the letter describes himself as a physician-surgian gynecologist from low-neversy-dad nasional autonoma diomeco in Mexico City, with 10 years experience in gynecology and surgery of the abdomen, obtained in the best hospitals in Mexico City.
[SPEAKER_12]: and then here's the letter.
[SPEAKER_12]: Permit me to direct myself to you with the purpose that you would send me cases, gynecological problems.
[SPEAKER_12]: I am promising you that all the patients you would send me will be taken care of with absolute seriousness, honesty and efficiency.
[SPEAKER_12]: That doesn't sound that badly written.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: So to be clear, he's doing this because there are more and more and more and more in more cases of people doing back LE abortions and dying.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: People just like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Portfavor, send them over here, please.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_12]: Necesito Mucho abortions.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Portfavor.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Me Gusta abortion.
[SPEAKER_14]: Me Gusta Bebe Morir.
[SPEAKER_12]: The person's you would send me, please let them come immediately to me and not take taxi direct cabs as these drivers are not honest people, unable to be trusted.
[SPEAKER_12]: Furthermore, they try to exploit these cases or lead them to other places.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, that sounds like a pretty good letter actually, I don't know why they're dunking on them so badly.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Also, these doctors... Tracism.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_14]: They're just like, look at this Mexican trying to speak Spanish, he's probably doing a Mexican abortion.
[SPEAKER_14]: So these guys, but that is crazy.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a good thing we don't live in a time in which abortion is now outlawed.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's right, the hell I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well now it's required.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and now everyone's getting trans abortion anyways, so that is, is that, has that properly contextualized us for this for the time period we're in vence?
[SPEAKER_12]: I believe, uh, I believe it has.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think, I mean, that's up to you guys.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's my segment.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's up to you guys, whether you're properly contextual.
[SPEAKER_14]: I feel I feel the context.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, I'll tell you right now.
[SPEAKER_14]: I feel it.
[SPEAKER_14]: And it feels good.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, before we get started on talking about the episode, I'm going to play a little bit of this week's Draper D story, uh, a little song called Unhinged Meloduck.
[SPEAKER_15]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[SPEAKER_14]: I didn't do a lot of pitch-correction, but it's really like you know, the lonely guy, and only play one more bar just like, I won't work You and I, you and I, you and I, you know, wrong thing, I'm all you business cards
[SPEAKER_16]: All right, well, it's not listen.
[SPEAKER_14]: He looks pretty good.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a listen, I chose a really hard song, but eventually it gets good.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think he crushed that.
[SPEAKER_14]: Uh, yes, uh, this is Unhinged Meloduck.
[SPEAKER_14]: You can listen to the full song of duck singing to Peggy to the tune of Unchained Melody at the end of the episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: Uh, but let's talk about this episode, the suit case.
[SPEAKER_14]: Now this, this is one of those episodes that, uh, when you look up a list of best madman episodes.
[SPEAKER_14]: uh... it is usually on top or in the like top five this is always named on that list and uh... i watched it with that in mind and by the end of it i agreed this
[SPEAKER_14]: It's got to be one of my favorite episodes of all time of the show.
[SPEAKER_14]: It is an episode that takes place almost entirely between Dawn and Peggy.
[SPEAKER_14]: And every storyline happening outside of the office is
[SPEAKER_14]: basically happening inside the office as well.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's so funny emotionally very I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a it's an emotional episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a funny episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's a fun episode to watch Vince what were your thoughts?
[SPEAKER_12]: you know I did not look up any lists of the best madman episodes I had no idea where this ranked but I got to the end of it and I thought you know that was an absolute fucking barn burner like that was a great episode it's about yeah I think and I don't know that episodes of madman get much better than that
[SPEAKER_12]: You know, we like to talk about, you know, the themes and the time period and what was happening in America at the time of the show, but, you know, like this was just a great character piece between Don and Peggy, like you have them fight and you feel sad, and then they bring them back together and you feel happy.
[SPEAKER_12]: And it has what...
[SPEAKER_12]: I always say it's like my favorite element that takes something from like good to great, which is like the magical cat.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like they actually had a magical mouse and this episode I'm sure that there was a magical mouse and there was also like a fart sound effect like I can't I can't imagine this episode being much more perfect except if it hadn't mentioned Anna the cool girl who is in heaven now who cook who comes to dawn in a dream and says dawn.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's okay that I'm dead.
[SPEAKER_12]: I like it
[SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, it's you later Yes, there there was a fart sound and there was a ghost Anna a Dave.
[SPEAKER_14]: What did you think of this episode?
[SPEAKER_11]: First where was the fart sound?
[SPEAKER_12]: Farts out when duck was taking it trying to take a dump on I missed if the first time I watched it Yeah, I think that's about to take a dump on Don's chair.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, no Rogers
[SPEAKER_11]: I have to say, and you guys know, I've watched Madman probably seven or eight times before, and I started watching, and it's funny, I hated ghost Anna, but now I love ghost Anna.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like I hated I hate I didn't like this episode and I think kind of the way Vince described it when it's over or I think Matt you said this too You it really hit so hard and there are a lot of themes and and I was watching it and I'm like
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a real alcoholic episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: First of all, it's a real addict, alcoholic, workaholic episode, and there's so much emotion and when Don breaks at the end, it is so powerful when he says to Peggy, she was the only person who actually knew me.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's basically true.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: It is true.
[SPEAKER_14]: And it's true.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Don reveals a lot to Peggy in this episode and Peggy reveals a lot to Don.
[SPEAKER_11]: But having said all those positive things, the negative things about this episode are that fucking crew in the office, this era of madman with what's his face, the little guy, the illustrator, what's his name?
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's Danny Seagull, and then there is- I like Joey, they're like Joey.
[SPEAKER_12]: Joey doesn't bring a lot to the table, doesn't seem like.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, they laid the groundwork for his departure in this episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: It was very slight, but you'll notice it later.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I don't, yeah, I don't remember that, but yeah, there's as much as I love this episode, there are two like completely, completely like abstract jazz, scatty conversations.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like there's a whole conversation, it's, it's, it's Harry is selling the tickets to something listed and then they have a whole back and forth about whether he was charged for him and I left that scene being like, wait.
[SPEAKER_12]: Is he reselling tickets that he got for free?
[SPEAKER_11]: Like I feel like that's definitely definitely he is definitely okay.
[SPEAKER_12]: I feel like that would have been a bigger deal than it was in that team.
[SPEAKER_14]: And then well, no, remember it was sort of a big deal.
[SPEAKER_14]: Because he calls Danny a Jew for wanting to get him for free as well.
[SPEAKER_14]: And he goes, no, you're the Jew.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, he says no you're the juke is you're charging for a free thing.
[SPEAKER_12]: No one else objects to the fact that they're paying Like $30 what was that how much for it?
[SPEAKER_12]: It was like $10 dollars.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's a hundred bucks You're gonna pay a hundred bucks for a ticket to that somebody else got for free.
[SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I think Danny was the first one to complain and once called a Jew everyone backed off That's my guess.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's they're like well, no, I don't want to be a Jew too, but
[SPEAKER_11]: And Harry's known for taking advantage, and being fairly juey in his gentility.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, like he always takes advantage.
[SPEAKER_11]: He always wants to like flex on the newbies and that's what Harry does.
[SPEAKER_11]: There was another crew though that I don't like in this episode, who was it?
[SPEAKER_11]: There's that crew.
[SPEAKER_11]: I can't stand stand with them.
[SPEAKER_11]: I like stand later.
[SPEAKER_11]: Doc, as horrible as Doc is, I love his pathetic message.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's all I love it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I just thought you'd loam and lemon.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's what that's.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's what the other crew.
[SPEAKER_11]: I hate a little bit Douglas is what's there is a Peggy's boyfriend and the family.
[SPEAKER_11]: Peggy's boyfriend is like one of the more aggravating characters in the show.
[SPEAKER_12]: terrible what I love that they made like I thought he was entirely sympathetic in this episode and um and I feel like I've waged about this on like five at least five other episodes about my like sad birthday lunch that I had to have with my boss that we both hated each other on one of my birthdays and I always think about that and like this dinner where you're with your girlfriend's family when she stands you up is so much worse than you like having to hang out with my sad boss.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Peggy's mom is priceless.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: No, so Peggy, yeah, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, Peggy, this is your mother speaking.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_12]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: There was another, I don't know if you got this clip, Matt, but it's like, it's done and Roger sort of setting up the exposition for the evening, but it goes by so fast and they're trying to do like seven different things in it that I just, I were wound it.
[SPEAKER_12]: I watched it three times and both times I was like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_10]: Bad news, our knife's ruined.
[SPEAKER_10]: But to care that The kids are going to the palm.
[SPEAKER_10]: Okay, we are going anywhere else.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, I I'll explain this to you, but let's finish all it.
[SPEAKER_10]: The brotherhood of alcoholics anonymous Freddy and Cal Rutledge from Pond will be joining us for dinner and the fight Okay, so to get that means we'll have to drink before dinner if we want to drink at all Shoulders all talk about drinking where they start with the funny stories in the end of crying.
[SPEAKER_14]: Great joke
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, so that's that's that clip.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think it's a great joke, but then it keeps going and I'm like, I don't know what just happened.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so the first thing is everyone's plans for the evening are based around the Mohammed Ali list in fight, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: And all of the kids, I have a Cassius Clay because I don't respect the nation of Islam.
[SPEAKER_12]: Okay, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so, yeah, you don't have to tell me you're kidding.
[SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: Talk to you.
[SPEAKER_14]: Got to tell me to say that.
[SPEAKER_14]: So all of the, you know, junior executives and, you know, creatives and whatnot are, they said they're going to the palm.
[SPEAKER_14]: And then they are going to watch the fight in the movie theater.
[SPEAKER_14]: They asked Don if he's going to be at the palm and he says I sure will be and so they're now for sure going to the palm Which means that he is going to go literally anywhere else where they are not so when Roger comes in and says You know, we have something to deal with he's thinking he's talking about hanging out with co-workers And not realizing that no he's talking about the fact that now they actually have to hang out with clients
[SPEAKER_14]: That's what's going on.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, you just want to hang out with the AA people.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, there was enough jokes in it that I was like, okay, I don't mind that I don't understand it, but that was that was like so much information to try to get through and it's a dead set of lines there's this the show it gets more and more dense as it goes on like it does less and less handholding about what the story lines are.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, so I understand being confused by it, but I love the way he at Roger describes alcoholics hanging out.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's just like, they talk about, they tell funny stories about alcohol and then they start crying.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_13]: It's like, I really do that so hard.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_11]: The weirdest thing to me is how they set up Roger and on has total alcoholics.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: And neither, neither find recovery in the show.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like as we move forward, Roger sort of replaces alcohol with LSD, which is interesting, because we probably probably be a strong out heroin addict by 1978 or something.
[SPEAKER_11]: But he replaces it with LSD and Don replaces it with wellness, right?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but we we and Don is always trying to stop drinking, but it's I love that Roger characterizes the the A a folk like that It's the and I love Freddy Robinson man.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I love Freddy
[SPEAKER_14]: And I love he's Rogers talking about, uh, you know, later in another scene when he calls Don Baking him to come, uh, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he
[SPEAKER_14]: He like his just a conversation these having his like hold on.
[SPEAKER_14]: I have to go call my friend and make fun of you for it And then he feels judge for the fact that he's drinking and he wants to call dawn to be like How can they judge me Freddie rumps and pissed himself and this Rutledge guy killed a guy?
[SPEAKER_11]: that that was amazing but the other thing is he took he took refuge in the bar so he could drink yes and then the best thing is right after that where Dom says well leave tell them your sick and and Roger says oh yeah I think I drank too much
[SPEAKER_11]: That's the best part he can't he can't tell if he's sick because he actually is Right, he drank flesh.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, if he tells yes, if he tells me sick then it's like he lost Then they'll look at him like we know it's a sickness
[SPEAKER_11]: Roger says, I definitely overdid it.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that's a mess.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a mess.
[SPEAKER_12]: You have a problem like puking from alcohol over the age of 40.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like, yeah, my God.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, like I like to drink too.
[SPEAKER_12]: And I don't think I've puked from alcohol since I was like 23.
[SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's a, yeah, that's an extra normal people.
[SPEAKER_14]: Don't do that.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: As it turns out, some of us are not normal people.
[SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, it is the Roger storyline and sort of the,
[SPEAKER_14]: sunny list in you know storyline where all the executives are going to go see the thing you you think this episode starts out with you thinking okay this is going to be we're going to somehow see this fight or hear this fight or it's going to be about this fight
[SPEAKER_14]: they're gonna have an argument about what name they should be calling him right uh which I by the way I love in the scene where Dawn is talking to Peggy about uh Muhammad Ali he just goes he like says moohamed Ali he's a loud mouth and he brags too much I just love that he says he says moohamed Ali was like a scoff no and it's like bitch at least
[SPEAKER_12]: I look like his dawn draper going to like he's going to judge Muhammad Ali for changing his name when dawn draper's name is literally not dawn draper That'd be cool if like sugar ray Robbins and took one of the guys that he killed in the ring and he just like, okay, my name is uh You know my name is sure now Yeah, I'm your name right.
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm the fucking I'm the Highlander bitch.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that is the Highlander S move
[SPEAKER_11]: The other thing though that's interesting there is that Don says he has to say he's the greatest.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like why do you have to say that?
[SPEAKER_11]: And Don meanwhile is the greatest and Don also says products are the greatest and that's his whole job.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Muhammad Ali is basically the greatest self promoter that's ever lived.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, is Don just jealous.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: What's really happened?
[SPEAKER_12]: No, he's just white.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's every white guy's reaction to black athletes who, uh, who, uh, showboat is we don't like it.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's just a, that's just every white guy's reaction to that.
[SPEAKER_12]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_14]: Black athletes.
[SPEAKER_14]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think that, you know, as a baseline, that's true.
[SPEAKER_14]: I also think it is, it does go a little bit
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, earlier in the season when you're talking to the newspaper reporter, yeah, um, and thanks promotion is, uh, unmanly.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like he still comes from the 40s and 50s world.
[SPEAKER_14]: The 40s and 50s Midwest and also sort of, you know, uh, he's, um, you know, what do you call it?
[SPEAKER_14]: Like white trash, I guess, but uh, I think it is, it comes from a place of thinking, yeah, it's a Midwest What if I do things where you're like, oh, bragging means you're bad.
[SPEAKER_14]: Well, I mean, but David's right, that is weird because they are literally advertising people.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, this is showing the changeover from that mentality to Muhammad Ali being the first guy to say like, I'm the greatest, the fucking Rolling Stones saying like, we're the world's greatest rock and roll band.
[SPEAKER_12]: Howard Stern saying, I'm the king of all media or whatever.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think he took that from Oprah.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like these are all things that like happened later and they're sort of an accepted,
[SPEAKER_12]: But like, you know, that was sort of invented in the mid 20th century to some extent.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's also in that episode, Don calls himself a local.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's totally a hillbilly.
[SPEAKER_11]: He references another local who he says, probably an even bigger local than me.
[SPEAKER_16]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: So he's always putting himself down.
[SPEAKER_11]: So it's interesting though.
[SPEAKER_11]: And also, obviously, Don is so handsome.
[SPEAKER_11]: He always reacts prickly to handsome men like Joan Ameth.
[SPEAKER_11]: Worth Muhammad Ali.
[SPEAKER_12]: And he's, I mean, this was such a great episode partly because it's giving you the catharsis of Dawn finally opening up to someone and finally talking about himself and it doesn't feel contrived because he's clearly doing that in response to stimuli from the episode, which is like, you know, finding out the Anna has died and, you know, and being drunk and being feeling bad for being such a dick to Peggy.
[SPEAKER_12]: So it's like, right.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's all very, you know, it's doing themes, but it's all, it's not like it's just doing them out of the blue.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like it's, it's watering the plants of the, you know, the watering the, the seeds of the ideas that it's planted way earlier.
[SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know what, I just had a thought about the self promotion thing versus being an ad man.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, sorry to bring it up, uh, but I think that part of his, uh, you of all people would be Christians if the, I'm sorry, what did you call me, uh, sex workers?
[SPEAKER_14]: I mean, for someone having a prostitute for a mother.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_14]: But I also think that it ties into him talking to the fucking the newspaper man where he's like He doesn't want to talk himself up because that's he's like I sell products as soon as you sell people That is what prostitution is and he feels like he feels bad because he he always tries away from anytime He feels like a sex worker
[SPEAKER_14]: like any time anyone treats him, like something to be bought and sold, like the way Connie treated him when Conrad helped him was working with him.
[SPEAKER_14]: And you know, even in some relationships with the women he's been with, he doesn't mind doing it to other people, but when someone tries to make him into some sort of product and this is some sort of like sexual or sexualized person, that's when that's when shit changes.
[SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a dawn is such a fun character to be with, like this.
[SPEAKER_11]: I haven't watched Madman since the last time I came on your show and it's like, hmm, maybe it's time to go back because it's so sweet.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's so soulful.
[SPEAKER_11]: The other thing I think in general, not necessarily about this episode, but about the show is people who love ideas and being creative, watch this show and relate to the creative process.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it speaks to us.
[SPEAKER_11]: And like we, I mean, I know I want to figure out
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, like, how to sell dopey or how to sell catses or how to develop an idea the way that they develop ideas and it and how soulful.
[SPEAKER_11]: it shows that process and I think a lot of people don't love madmen and I bet you creative people really love it and people who aren't so invested in making things don't.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah and I yeah I definitely think that's like a huge through line to the show is like, you know, Don's, Don could easily just come up with like some dumb shit that the client would love and make money but he's like no that's not what I find
[SPEAKER_12]: Um, it's not what I find rewarding about this, like, I think that he finds rewarding about this is, you know, having an idea, even if it's an idea to sell shit.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like, it's weird how little self-awareness he seems to have about, um, doing bullshit for a living, but I do think it speaks to creative reason of people for the exact same reason that you said.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's like, you always have to,
[SPEAKER_12]: Like if you're just giving the audience what they want, like that's very boring, like if you're like being a creative is to know that the audience like doesn't really know what they want.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like you're trying to give them the thing that they don't know that they want yet, and that's so much better than just, you know, giving them, oh, this is what they've bought before, so I'll sell the two on again.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, yeah, no, I think, I think you're right, um, in terms of just the storylines in this episode, this one was a pretty easy roadmap because it really is just one through line throughout, because we stay essentially
[SPEAKER_14]: in the Peggy and Dawn story the entire time, so right after the scene in which Harry is called Harry, Harry calls Danny a Jew, and then Danny calls Harry a Jew.
[SPEAKER_14]: There's a moment where Mrs. Blankenship shows up to do the funniest racism, and
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, which is, I just, I think Ms. Blankenship is my absolute favorite character of all time, just so fucking funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why everyone cares so much about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I wanted to see Tonee grow's fight, I throw a dollar bill out my window.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love this, something so poignant about that moment, especially because the scene right before is then doing Jewish stereotypes at each other, and then this blanket ship shows up to be like, yes, but here in America, the blacks are the real Jews, just so you know, they're the ones who are fighting over the money.
[SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, Don watches Peggy and the other creatives pitch the Samsonite ad, which is the aforementioned suit case, you know, in the the titular suit case, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: And Don does not like the ad at all, says it's not funny and I feel like Peggy, the
[SPEAKER_14]: is very pissed about it because she's clearly working her ass off and Dawn doesn't really care.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know, Dawn is, um,
[SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: He's a, he's a, he's a snob.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_14]: Like the, the ad that they pitch was like perfectly fine for the 16.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's an ad.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: But he, I think I think there's something else there, though, which is done was hiding from the pain of dealing with with what's her face.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: What's her name?
[SPEAKER_11]: Don, Don knew he had to deal with Anna Draper and Don's an alcoholic, so he decides to use the work as a way to not deal with the thing he's dealing with.
[SPEAKER_11]: So he picks it apart.
[SPEAKER_11]: On a different day, he might have gone for that dumb ad.
[SPEAKER_14]: I see.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, no, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think he is looking for an excuse to stay in the office all day and all night.
[SPEAKER_14]: And that's kind of where the episode ends up is him canceling any plans to do anything else.
[SPEAKER_14]: He doesn't want to do anything but focus on his work because he does not want to focus on the realities that
[SPEAKER_14]: you know Stephanie from California is calling probably to say that and a Draper has died.
[SPEAKER_12]: Also think this shows like a good example of why like good fiction is like an empathy building machine is because it's like giving you all of these characters who in a vacuum you probably think are terrible like Don's not a great guy like Peggy kind of suck like they all kind of suck in their own ways but like
[SPEAKER_12]: They're showing you they're they're forcing you to empathize with these people and like they're getting you to the point where you know It is really gratifying to see Don and Betty like sort of connecting and being friends, so it's you know It's constantly forcing you into this Situation where you are empathizing with people that in your real life you would you might dismiss Just because of how they're acting or how they're treating you in the moment
[SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, Peggy is being told by Dawn that the ad is not actually funny.
[SPEAKER_14]: He actually says it in this type of way.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: Should I be funny?
[SPEAKER_04]: Actually funny, maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Funny like what I just saw?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_14]: I'm like that, that is, that one hurts the most because there's nothing worse than being told that the funny thing you tried is not funny.
[SPEAKER_14]: like that is that I think it is it's everyone's greatest fear especially anyone who was like never tried comedy one of the reasons I haven't is because they're like if someone notices I tried to be funny and I fail at it I will I will kill myself
[SPEAKER_12]: it's also that thing where it's like, even if you're doing creative things for living, like you know not everything is going to be a winner.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like you know, like there's, there's things that I write where I get to a point where I'm like, I don't think this is going to be great, but I need to get it done, so like, move on to something else, and like everybody sort of has those moments, and it seems like that's where Peggy and the rest of the crew have landed and they're like,
[SPEAKER_12]: It's not the greatest ad we've ever done.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's fucking Samson, I ain't whatever.
[SPEAKER_12]: Let's call it a day.
[SPEAKER_12]: But Dawn, like you said, is an addict who's trying to forget other things.
[SPEAKER_12]: So it was like, no, this needs to be something that makes me feel good.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, like, I feel empty inside.
[SPEAKER_14]: The only, this will cure me.
[SPEAKER_14]: Only the art will fix me.
[SPEAKER_14]: But when Peggy goes back to her office, she sees flowers.
[SPEAKER_14]: And that's when we learn it's her birthday.
[SPEAKER_14]: She gets a call from Duck.
[SPEAKER_14]: who is telling her about a plan that he has.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I love when addicts plan stuff.
[SPEAKER_14]: A scheming addict is the funniest addicts.
[SPEAKER_07]: I want to form an agency that specializes in women's products with you as my creative director.
[SPEAKER_15]: I don't want to say anything.
[SPEAKER_07]: Trang's live in this station, honey.
[SPEAKER_07]: Get on board.
[SPEAKER_06]: Woo, woo, woo.
[SPEAKER_06]: Woo.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ha ha ha.
[SPEAKER_06]: Ha ha.
[SPEAKER_06]: Where am I calling you?
[SPEAKER_07]: And in my office at home.
[SPEAKER_14]: See, you already?
[SPEAKER_14]: The ice noise throughout the sea is just incredible.
[SPEAKER_12]: The fully-art is really did it.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's bang-up job.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's an entire episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: Just hearing the jingle-jangle of ice.
[SPEAKER_14]: You're just like, that's the more jingle-jangle you hear, the more drunk the person is.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's so wonderful.
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not wasting my talents over there anymore.
[SPEAKER_07]: Believe me, it was mutual.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, what do you have so far?
[SPEAKER_07]: I know it's not a diamond necklace, but I did spend some money in those cards.
[SPEAKER_12]: I love that part because it's like, it's such like drunk guy behavior where you do, where you do this sort of over the top gesture, but if anyone finds like the least bit of fault with it, it's just like, fuck you anyway.
[SPEAKER_14]: I don't know, I shouldn't have gotten shit.
[SPEAKER_14]: Stupid bitch.
[SPEAKER_14]: It is crazy.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's like, we're talking about the most delicate, like the thinnest fucking veneer before anyone.
[SPEAKER_14]: What do you want me to die?
[SPEAKER_14]: You're trying to kill me, bitch.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Sorry, dogs.
[SPEAKER_14]: There's nothing staying with some dogs or crying.
[SPEAKER_12]: Hey, babe, I just noticed that you're like the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_12]: I was wondering if you want to have a drink with me.
[SPEAKER_12]: Well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_13]: Fuck you.
[SPEAKER_13]: Anyway, you love me.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_13]: I hate me.
[SPEAKER_13]: Um, but yeah, I don't what didn't mean come over here because you're so ugly.
[SPEAKER_13]: Uh, That's very real.
[SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, I just love watching Duck B drunk and go from I've got this great business idea to Peg please come over I'm falling apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, is that brand?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've got a great business idea.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, no, he's drunk
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: There it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can hear the ice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: My great business ideas.
[SPEAKER_00]: We should do some ads.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, good idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_14]: I believe we're trying this before.
[SPEAKER_14]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Maybe money will happen if we do it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, everyone.
[SPEAKER_14]: You heard the man.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's time for you to listen to these ads.
[SPEAKER_14]: But please stick around.
[SPEAKER_14]: We'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_14]: And we're back this mad yourself a man here with, of course, Dave Manheim.
[SPEAKER_14]: How you doing, Dave Manheim?
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love the woo woo in that last scene that that was the thing for me or fucking duck man.
[SPEAKER_11]: I feel I feel and Peggy is such a lonely like she has her boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_11]: She probably fucked duck once a month or something cheating on her boyfriend with this drunk, you know, elderly man.
[SPEAKER_11]: And the best thing, though, about the Duck Aggie relationship is that Duck's romantic name for Peggy is pee-wee.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right, the Duck and Best.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, how does that even happen that your girlfriend, you're going to call pee-wee?
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, everybody had to have a nickname in the 60s.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like this is one of the beautiful things about it.
[SPEAKER_12]: Can we keep going with the duck story, I'll have some other thoughts about it.
[SPEAKER_12]: Please, please.
[SPEAKER_12]: So when duck comes in drunk and, you know, he calls, he again, he like makes another token gesture towards Peggy Ewan.
[SPEAKER_12]: And when it's received poorly, immediately calls her a whore.
[SPEAKER_12]: Don takes a swing at him and I loved this fight because the scene right before this is like dawn He continuing to talk shit on Cassius Clay and he started this he sort of does this thing where he's like he's sort of shadow boxing and the second he did that Me and my wife both were like oh wow like he really cannot throw up like like that's the most Like you can tell that guy cannot throw a punch just from the way that he shadow box for two seconds right
[SPEAKER_12]: That's when he gets in a fight with Duck.
[SPEAKER_12]: You know, he takes a big swing at him and like miss his horribly, like, and Duck sort of like snap some down and does like an inside trip, but it's actually pretty realistic grappling there for surprisingly, like for a show on a basic cable that usually don't do that so well.
[SPEAKER_12]: But I loved, yeah, I love the way that that was like check-offs.
[SPEAKER_12]: Don is bad at fighting with his little shadow box.
[SPEAKER_14]: So funny.
[SPEAKER_14]: I did notice that at all.
[SPEAKER_14]: Was it you think that it was an intentional don is bad at fighting?
[SPEAKER_12]: I think as far as, I mean, I know John Ham plays baseball because he's on just an helper and baseball team.
[SPEAKER_12]: So I think he is kind of athletic in real life.
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm not 100% on that, but yeah, I think that felt like an actual choice that they were making.
[SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that's a really, really, really great observation.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm into that in so many different ways, because number one, I never had a fight in my life.
[SPEAKER_11]: Whenever I have someone on the show who got into a lot of fights, I'm always interested in what it was like to be this kind of fighter.
[SPEAKER_11]: This kind of man.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: On madman when when what's his face?
[SPEAKER_11]: Roger was a boxer.
[SPEAKER_11]: He established that many, many times when a Pete has to fight.
[SPEAKER_11]: What's the good?
[SPEAKER_11]: The English guy's name Lane Lane Lane and Lane takes Pete down.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Don is like just watching as though he
[SPEAKER_11]: could fight if he had to.
[SPEAKER_11]: And earlier in this episode, Peggy asks, Don, if he shot anybody in Korea, and Don says no, but I saw someone die.
[SPEAKER_11]: And duck, when he's on top of Don, and holds out the duck grip.
[SPEAKER_11]: It says, I killed 11 men in Okinawa.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Don says uncle.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like it's like so did Don fight on the farm.
[SPEAKER_11]: He was a sickly son of a whore.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he was a very handsome car salesman Korean private, but did he get into fights?
[SPEAKER_11]: I guess not
[SPEAKER_12]: I think that's a class thing like I think when you are a rich kid that has gone to college like Pete and and duck like that, you know, it's like the Donald Rumsfield, I wrestle that Princeton kind of thing like there is a certain like that is a sort of rich college boy thing is to, you know, fight is recreation and I don't think Don had that opportunities,
[SPEAKER_12]: He was a horse child who didn't have a ton of like male friends and those kind of experiences when he was growing Usually it's like, you know, I think that you see the opposite.
[SPEAKER_14]: You're supposed to, you know, be like, oh, everyone from a working class or, you know, a white trash background.
[SPEAKER_14]: These are all, you know, born fighters.
[SPEAKER_14]: They have all had to fight to survive type thing where all the like,
[SPEAKER_12]: What you're suggesting is sort of the opposite where it which is like a lot of these guys get to do the fucking you know the grappling training in college I would say and I think it's a rich man poor man thing and I I'm bringing my scholarship boy rugby background into this is which is that like you know There's people like me who grew up you know in rural areas beating the shit out of each other for fun, and you know you we always assume
[SPEAKER_12]: That like the rich kids didn't play rough in that way, but they did play rough in their own way, which is like, you know, like drowning in chap acquittic.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, boxing at Princeton and fucking playing a blucross or whatever.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like it's a rich man poor man sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's like Don comes from a particular class of hillbilly where it's like he just didn't have a lot of other boys who's age around.
[SPEAKER_12]: It seems like.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that's a perfect assessment.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I think what I love about the fight to is, I mean, there's two things going on there that I think are wonderful.
[SPEAKER_14]: One is, you've got Dawn and Duck are the sunny list in Cat's Play, like Dawn loves sunny list in because he's like, you know, he just puts
[SPEAKER_14]: you know it puts his head down and he gets to work and he works and he doesn't talk about you know how great he is mean while you know You grew up punching cows after you got kicked in the head by the right and and you know mean while Muhammad Ali is always like talking himself up, but he's all hot air
[SPEAKER_12]: It comes with his fancy footwork and his, uh, and his strategy of, yeah, not getting hit in the face all the time.
[SPEAKER_14]: And his mind games and all that stuff, and, and while, of course, it's not a perfect analogy.
[SPEAKER_14]: There is something there where, like, dawn likes, uh,
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, sunny list and because he's like, oh, because he doesn't talk about himself, uh, he's a mystery.
[SPEAKER_14]: And you know, behind that mystery is probably a punching machine.
[SPEAKER_14]: This is a guy who's probably incredible.
[SPEAKER_14]: And Dawn loves being mysterious because being mysterious, you can use your imagination about somebody.
[SPEAKER_14]: Are they this?
[SPEAKER_14]: Are they that?
[SPEAKER_14]: It could be anything.
[SPEAKER_14]: In fact, it's likely that they're
[SPEAKER_14]: larger than life because I don't even know he's so mysterious and then the fight happens between him and Duck Duck is you know not exactly Muhammad Ali but he is someone who has fought before he's actually killed some guys and you know Don is now caught out in this moment where he has to it's like okay mystery boy
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, and the show was very helpful to see what happens, Mr.
[SPEAKER_12]: Boy, and he's just like, oh, I'm scared.
[SPEAKER_12]: And the show was very careful to show duck like doing a couple moves.
[SPEAKER_12]: It was like a couple quick shots, but they show them like, oh, he like knew what to do with the headlock and did like a like they do a a close up on the trip that he does on Don and it's like, oh, yeah, he did have a strategy.
[SPEAKER_12]: I feel like it's a little weird that they soft pedal the fact that this is the second time that
[SPEAKER_12]: Muhammad Ali fought sunny listed and they actually fought 15 months before this and Ali won But people thought people thought it was like somewhat inconclusive because I think they fought for six six rounds And then sunny list and didn't come out in the seventh because he said he had a shoulder injury and so So it's a rematch Muhammad Ali won by TKO and in this fight is the rematch
[SPEAKER_14]: I think people just, you know, they needed to set it in one, I don't think you're going to get the background you want then.
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, they referenced it, like the way Roger says like, oh, you know, 15 months, like for a sunny list and it's got to be unconscious because like 15, I've been waiting 15 months for this fight.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: But I'll tell you as a fan of the show, I wanted
[SPEAKER_11]: I probably seen this episode six times seven times, some of that, and every other time I really wanted to see Don kick the shit out of duck.
[SPEAKER_11]: I wanted to see that so bad asshole.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then I'm also thinking, I'm also thinking, well, Don's very drunk.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, so it's done.
[SPEAKER_11]: So it's done.
[SPEAKER_11]: Maybe that way.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: And maybe Don has has some drunk in fighting skills, but he doesn't and I think that's wonderful though.
[SPEAKER_14]: There's something about a dawn, you know, having this big.
[SPEAKER_14]: Mysterious background, at least to everyone else, you know, like Peggy and stuff like that, uh, and him talking about Muhammad Ali is like, oh, everyone just not, you know, he's just someone who like talks himself up, but Sonny Liston, he's like me, he's mysterious You don't know if he's good at fighting and then in the moment is okay.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, so I'm not good at fighting at all I think I don't know what it will about that
[SPEAKER_14]: the other wonderful thing about this fight is that it happens as sort of the climax to a really funny Peggy story throughout this episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's her birthday, her boyfriend and her supposed to have
[SPEAKER_12]: Is it one more thing about the fighting thing?
[SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think that whole scene, like, what's so good about it is that it puts the lie to, like, fighting as a metaphor for, like, life, like, so many other things in fiction that, like, the fighting is always, like, a metaphor for someone who's, like, the bigger striver or who has, like, more willpower or whatever, and then this one's just, like, no, ducks just better because, like, you know, he, he, like, wrestling college or whatever, like, it's not, and it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, yeah, I like that, too.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, so when he says to Peggy, let's go.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's almost as though he's going to leave with Peggy.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: He won the fight.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that is.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, because in his mind, he's like, I won.
[SPEAKER_12]: So I get the girl.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I get the girl now.
[SPEAKER_14]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, because that's how the world works.
[SPEAKER_14]: That the world is fair, right?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, but the thing I love is with Peggy, this storyline is, this fight is a climax to a story that sees Peggy as sort of unwanted, unlovable, like she is, she's lamenting to Dawn at one point about the fact that everyone thinks I slept with you and not only that, but they laugh about it
[SPEAKER_14]: There's a lot of layers there.
[SPEAKER_14]: A lot of her feeling sorry for herself.
[SPEAKER_14]: Even Dawn tries to make her feel better at one point.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like, oh, come on, pig.
[SPEAKER_14]: I totally would.
[SPEAKER_14]: I just, you know, you're attractive.
[SPEAKER_14]: You're attractive.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you're pretty hot for, you know, old woman.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, and what I, I love about smashing that post a lot of times actually.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, actually.
[SPEAKER_14]: I've thought about I got close a few times, but I've never quite been drunken up.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, yeah, but he like, uh, you know, she is feeling kind of down and then two boys are fighting for her.
[SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[SPEAKER_12]: Well, she's also, yeah, she's feeling unwanted even though there's like an entire table of people like waiting for waiting for her person for her to show up.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but she's like, I don't want those people.
[SPEAKER_12]: So it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I love the everything between her and Mark.
[SPEAKER_14]: So in the story, she is right about to go out to dinner to see Mark and then Dawn calls her into the office and this is, you know, kicks off the rest of the episode in which she is trying to escape having to do a Samsonite rewrite
[SPEAKER_14]: Number one, she won't say anything about it being her birthday for some reason.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think that's just her not wanting to bitch out of it, because for her, she's up to the challenge, I think.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's great because they're sort of both right where it's like, he's a dick for keeping her at work.
[SPEAKER_12]: And it's partly her fault because she's like, she's like him, she refuses to be vulnerable in the way of just saying, like, hey, it's my birthday.
[SPEAKER_12]: I have people waiting for me.
[SPEAKER_14]: Right, and she doesn't want to get in trouble.
[SPEAKER_14]: She thinks that if she says that that he will not respect it or like he'll say fine You can go, but fuck you for you know for yeah finding a reason to get out of here He does say you can go, but I think what happens is she's like she's like I'd much rather be working with Don than being with Mark or my fucking face
[SPEAKER_14]: Exactly, that is the thing with her, is she really would rather be with Don, because she really loves her job.
[SPEAKER_14]: She really, even though it makes her life miserable, I think she just likes, she wants to be near Don, she wants Don and her to be this team and
[SPEAKER_14]: Every time he pulls away and makes her feel small, like she pisses her off, but any time he's like, hey, can you come here?
[SPEAKER_14]: Let's work out.
[SPEAKER_14]: Let's work this idea out.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think she does like, she treasures the opportunity to impress him more so than like, familial ties or love mark.
[SPEAKER_14]: And it's like, it's sad, but what I love is
[SPEAKER_14]: He Mark keeps calling and she keeps calling Mark and she's like, he's like, where are you?
[SPEAKER_14]: And he's not admitting that he invited her whole family to be there for this birthday dinner.
[SPEAKER_14]: And eventually Mark admits it, like breaks down, says, your whole family's here.
[SPEAKER_14]: Can you please fucking get here?
[SPEAKER_14]: And
[SPEAKER_14]: She goes up the dawn to tell him I got to go.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's my birthday When dawn learns, it's Peggy's birthday.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's one of the funniest scenes in this episode filled with funny scenes Here's this.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was supposed to be a dinner an hour ago.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's my birthday And I'm pretty sure everyone's everything When I told you to tell me I don't know because I thought this would take a second
[SPEAKER_04]: So, now I'm supposed to feel like crap.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm so sick that I ruin her birthday.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't want my birthday yet?
[SPEAKER_06]: I was just so good to her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, enjoy everything!
[SPEAKER_04]: By the way, you want 20, something years old.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's time to get over birthings.
[SPEAKER_13]: I didn't say anything incredible.
[SPEAKER_12]: He's like trying to avoid the feeling of feeling bad for doing a bad thing.
[SPEAKER_12]: Just me, it really goes so hard on the offensive.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's strong.
[SPEAKER_14]: If you sarcastically say something awful, it's like, you know, it was my birthday.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, you, I'm supposed to feel bad.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, I feel so bad.
[SPEAKER_13]: I ran over your dog.
[SPEAKER_13]: Like, how old are you?
[SPEAKER_13]: What even care about dogs anymore?
[SPEAKER_11]: I feel like it's like it's another example of how bad Don is with people though.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: So good at work.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's so good at impressing people.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's so good at sliding in and out.
[SPEAKER_11]: But he's so bad with relationships, which is why he destroyed both of his families.
[SPEAKER_11]: He has no friends because when this shit hits the fan like this, he does not know what to do.
[SPEAKER_11]: He also does not know.
[SPEAKER_12]: He also has a certain amount of Gile and Riz, but all of that goes away exponentially with the more he drinks, like the more he drinks, the less people skills.
[SPEAKER_12]: He thinks he has them.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_13]: It's just, I just think about it all.
[SPEAKER_13]: I'm so sorry, really hurt there.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh, run over your dog.
[SPEAKER_13]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_13]: Oh my dog.
[SPEAKER_12]: Can I so the restaurant that Mark wants to take her to?
[SPEAKER_12]: That's a real place.
[SPEAKER_12]: What is the restaurant?
[SPEAKER_12]: It's called the Forum of the Twelve Seasers and I have like a little write up about it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, tell me about the forum of the Twelve Seasers.
[SPEAKER_12]: Opulent and epic.
[SPEAKER_12]: The restaurant also sported enormous menus with wax seals, sterling silver wine buckets in the shape of centurion helmets.
[SPEAKER_12]: And according to Mimi
[SPEAKER_12]: Uh, in appetites, William Grimes described Italian custom-made knives with the head of Bakus in the handle.
[SPEAKER_12]: Uh, so many items on the menu were flambéed, that bomb once boasted to have built an extra 10% capacity into the air conditioning system.
[SPEAKER_12]: Sheraton herself experienced the exuberant pyrotechnics and feared the whole room might combust.
[SPEAKER_12]: Cool!
[SPEAKER_12]: And in December, 21st, 1957 New Yorker piece, Baume explained the thinking behind the restaurant.
[SPEAKER_12]: thematically were ancient Rome, the golden age of Rome, a time of lusty elegance, with a feeling and great measure like that of New York today, in which the good things of life are presented to the leaders of the world.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love this, this is like the theme of the restaurant is opulent.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, the menu was of course bombastic and ludicrous featuring heading such as sumptuous dishes from all the empire that had Sirloin and Red Wine, Marilyn Onion, a Gallic recipe Julius collected while they're on business.
[SPEAKER_12]: And Epicurian trophies of the hunt that included epigrams of venison sautéed with truffle and saus vité.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_12]: One would also find broiled three-clod lobster.
[SPEAKER_12]: What?
[SPEAKER_12]: Three-clod!
[SPEAKER_12]: five seventy five incredibly opulent yeah we've got a three-cloth lost sir the noblest Caesar salad of them all to fifty and birds baked in clay under the fiery ashes
[SPEAKER_11]: It reminds me of the book that Sally reads to her grandpa about ancient Rome, the opulence of the eroticism, and yes, that's right, that's right.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's that vibe.
[SPEAKER_14]: You're talking about like how the hedonism brought down the empire.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's always happening.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's always bubbling on Madman.
[SPEAKER_11]: Let's always bubbling.
[SPEAKER_12]: Uh, note at the bottom of the menu, bemoaned the unavailability of rare birds.
[SPEAKER_12]: Quote, since the local sumptuous laws have limited the netting of pink flamingo, lark, thrush, etc.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, they've been moving flamingo up in this bush.
[SPEAKER_12]: No, they saying we can't serve those by law.
[SPEAKER_12]: Uh, more than the usual number of days are required for our our netmen to accomplish their task.
[SPEAKER_12]: Netmen, but offered as a consolation, the noble peacock as our armagerious and his kitcheners stand ready with one of the most delightful recipes of their ours, Kokinaria.
[SPEAKER_12]: Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_12]: So there's an eating peacock?
[SPEAKER_12]: I think it was, I think it's just Coke of On, and they like, you know, they just gave it up.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's what he read.
[SPEAKER_14]: What's some feathers in it?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, I mean, that's wild.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love, uh, I love that.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love that this is where Mark was like, I'm going to take her for her 26th birthday.
[SPEAKER_14]: And the scene with her and Mark breaking up is so funny because Peggy basically does to Mark what Dawn did to her,
[SPEAKER_14]: Act as if the thing that she's doing is not that weird and actually you're bad.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, good enough.
[SPEAKER_14]: She did the, oh, I'm so sorry, ruin my birthday to Mark.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I'm so sorry, I ruin your surprise romantic day.
[SPEAKER_14]: And Mark has the only human response to this, which is, you know, it fuck you.
[SPEAKER_14]: We're breaking up.
[SPEAKER_14]: What's the point of doing anything nice for you?
[SPEAKER_09]: I think you would stay there.
[SPEAKER_09]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_09]: Forget it.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, what?
[SPEAKER_09]: You want to do this right now?
[SPEAKER_06]: Do what?
[SPEAKER_09]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's been nice knowing you.
[SPEAKER_09]: Happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_09]: So that's it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_09]: Good night.
[SPEAKER_06]: It'll be fine, couple's fine, that's Jerry.
[SPEAKER_13]: I love Jerry's there, he's like, I'm Jerry.
[SPEAKER_13]: Fuck it, Jerry's there.
[SPEAKER_13]: We do be fighting, so that's true.
[SPEAKER_12]: I do hate this bitch sometimes.
[SPEAKER_12]: I like how when he's like, when he's like, you know what, you know, in his mind, he wanted to say, you know what, we're not even fucking.
[SPEAKER_12]: So like a hundred percent, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_14]: I also, I love, it's just,
[SPEAKER_14]: To keep praise on this episode is episode is so fucking funny in every aspect like the fact that he has planned this surprise party for Peggy and you know finally breaks down and says your whole family is here
[SPEAKER_14]: Uh, you know, as if that's going to be something that brings him brings her there, and instead for her, she's like, no, that actually makes me want to come here less, and then to be so, you know, I don't know, for her to be so callous is to basically be mad at Mark for all of this.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, uh, drive us into the point of breaking up with her with her whole family there.
[SPEAKER_14]: and the whole family is then left to pretty much console him like it's okay.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay, they're like, we get it.
[SPEAKER_14]: She's a bitch.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, for sure they are.
[SPEAKER_12]: They're like, yeah, this is weird for all of us.
[SPEAKER_11]: Do you think they stay in eat with him after a hundred thousand percent there are He does he still does he still pay that's a great question.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think the answer is yes because I think that Peggy's family Would he'd never hear the end of it.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think he at this point once
[SPEAKER_14]: the revenge of having the family love him more than they love her.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think he has to try to pay and the family has to try to say oh no no we'll get this I think there's no way that Jerry is gonna step in with the money.
[SPEAKER_12]: Jerry wants to eat for free so bad but his wife is definitely nudging him be like you've got to you've got to kick in for this.
[SPEAKER_14]: Jerry went in going I thought this was a free meal.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, Jerry said don't don't cut the kid out.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, he says don't don't I am string.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah, don't cut him off at the legs Yeah, don't cut him off at the legs in my favorite thing is the is the disdain that the mother has for her roommate the roommate
[SPEAKER_11]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_12]: You know, Jerry was like...
[SPEAKER_13]: So I still get the three-cloud lobster though, right?
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_13]: Do you not going to remove one claw from it?
[SPEAKER_13]: That's not fair.
[SPEAKER_12]: I'm not going to leave when it hasn't even come to that one.
[SPEAKER_13]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_13]: I got this bib with a picture of a horse on it.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I'm going to leave when I get this.
[SPEAKER_14]: This will also be, so right after that Peggy walks back in the Don's office and pours yourself a drink and it's just like, well, I just broke up with Mark, which is really funny, because I do think she, at first I was like, no, he broke up with you.
[SPEAKER_14]: But then in rewatching the scene, I realized I think she is trying to have this happen.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, yes, she did break up with him, but made it seem like it was his choice.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, she's trying to make it seem like, you know, this is his choice, but
[SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: That was all.
[SPEAKER_14]: That was all her.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_14]: And then she's like, well, while we're at it, let's have another fight and has one of, I think the most iconic fights between her and Dawn is where they are arguing over her ideas.
[SPEAKER_14]: And this has been the resentment that's been, you know, bubbling in the background this entire season.
[SPEAKER_14]: And now it finally spills over
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way it works.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are no credits on commercials.
[SPEAKER_06]: Did you got the Cleo?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's your job.
[SPEAKER_03]: I give you money.
[SPEAKER_03]: You give me ideas.
[SPEAKER_06]: You never say thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what the money is for.
[SPEAKER_03]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're young.
[SPEAKER_03]: You will get your recognition.
[SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, it is absolutely ridiculous to be two years into your career and counting your ideas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything to you is an opportunity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you should be thanking me every morning when you wake up along with Jesus, for giving you another day.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like, Jesus, all right, after that's what the money is for, and then you had to go too far.
[SPEAKER_12]: And it's like, yeah, you're the bad guy now.
[SPEAKER_14]: Dude, but yes, true, but also everything.
[SPEAKER_14]: Everything he says there is incredible.
[SPEAKER_14]: And it's like, it's not that I agree, but there is, there's so much going on with the, that's what the money is for, line.
[SPEAKER_14]: I, this, is that a line that is stuck with everybody throughout the years?
[SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I mean, so off, I mean, it sticks with me because I feel like so much of the modern discourse is like billionaires also wanting to be like recognized as like cool and culturally relevant and it's like, dude, no, you took the money.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like, what do you, what do you want?
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you don't get both.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and there's also that part of me that is like,
[SPEAKER_14]: At the time it was written this, it feels like an attack on like millennials, like the, you know, generation of people new to the workforce who are immediately making demands.
[SPEAKER_14]: Like it feels very boomer-coded.
[SPEAKER_14]: This like this line of, you know, people saying, oh, you want to be, you know,
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think it's boomer-coded because they say shit like that where it's like, oh, you want like all the bobbles and cubs Right, and then it's like no people like people gave those As like a union-busting strategy in the for in the first place.
[SPEAKER_12]: So like you took away the idea of job stability So like of course They want validation because like that's all that's left.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's all that you made awards everything
[SPEAKER_12]: It's kind of the thing that we do now with like the influencer, Gen Z generation.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, man, isn't it disgusting that all these kids want to be influencers?
[SPEAKER_12]: And it's like, yes, it is, but that's also the only avenue we've left them because we took all the other jobs.
[SPEAKER_12]: There's no more capital anymore.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's just praise.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's the only idea of having a job where you're like your own sort of boss anymore.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think, I mean, I don't want to talk about influencers stuff because that just makes me feel like kids want it to be rock stars now, rock stars don't sell record, so they want to be influencers.
[SPEAKER_11]: But in this scene with Peggy and Don, I feel like it's a lot of the passing of the baton that Don was Peggy, but would never have pouted and Peggy does go on to become Don.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, and says the same shit to a bunch of kids in her room in the same way.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think when we were talking before about work a hallism and done wanting to escape into the work and you were talking about how much Peggy loves her job.
[SPEAKER_11]: I really think Peggy lives for the work.
[SPEAKER_11]: the identity, the loss of herself in the work, and she wanted Don, she wanted Don to see that she did glow coat.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Don was like, no bitch, it's a team and I'm the captain of the team.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Peggy, Peggy is just like, we're in this together, and Don's like, yes, but this is the flow of that.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's like, and that's why at the end of it,
[SPEAKER_11]: Like it's almost one of the, one of the greatest scenes ever and I know you have it on deck is when Don makes up with her and offers her Roger and he's like let's put this all behind us because I have this thing that you're going to think is the funniest fucking thing let's not talk about these these these quarrels you know what I mean it's like if they take this moment she goes to the other room and he's upset that she's upset because he knows how valuable she is and she knows how valuable she is.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's just this, it's just not dealing with the understanding, which is that money is the praise, money is the thanks.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's rough, I love both of them and I love their passion.
[SPEAKER_12]: yeah and he knows he went too far and that's why he has to have a magical mouse come in and give him this gift of Roger stupid book and finding out that uh that the weird secretary is a sex freak and corporate doesn't have any testicles here we go.
[SPEAKER_12]: But it was at the mouse?
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_12]: He's looking under the, he's like looking under the table for the mouse.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's like he thought the mouse was making the noise on the tape.
[SPEAKER_12]: Like he thought the, like the, like the, the noise on the tape was the mouse until he realizes it was like, no, it was him trying to tape over a thing.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, see, I wasn't sure that was the exact moment when the mouse came in.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_14]: What I like is that he is in the moment trying to, while she's crying in the bathroom, he's trying to dictate, you know, this stupid fucking Samson idea.
[SPEAKER_14]: Who cares at this point?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: and then in trying to get a new tape and seeing the mouse he discovers this dictated memoirs sterling schooled and calls Peggy in is like you got to hear this let's bond sterling school is a good stupid title so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad so bad
[UNKNOWN]: So, where was I?
[UNKNOWN]: But it could where he hit me.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I thought it was because he thought I'd be an ally of my father.
[SPEAKER_08]: But it turned out it was feeling that it was my wish to be my romantic prowess.
[SPEAKER_08]: See, take three.
[SPEAKER_08]: Sometimes with the questions.
[SPEAKER_08]: His secretary, I had a blanket ship.
[SPEAKER_08]: No one told you it's her name.
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh my god, my very youth, all because
[SPEAKER_08]: We're going to have been cut down the height of a sexual prime by an unnecessary 4Dectomy.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's okay, just in.
[SPEAKER_14]: So a lot happens in that scene.
[SPEAKER_14]: Number one, we find out that I had a blanket ship was a sex pervert and down for anything.
[SPEAKER_14]: And also, we find out this Dr. Lyle Evans line from two episodes ago that we all were like, what the fuck was that?
[SPEAKER_14]: And we talked about it on that episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: There was like a people were goofed up.
[SPEAKER_14]: Remember me remind me remind me of the line in that if the first instance of someone like a show gaming the internet because they like they through a line in there So basically Don is Sorry Roger is mad because they're trying to pitch to the Japanese to Honda because he fought you know the Japanese in World War II and he said what are we just gonna let
[SPEAKER_14]: You know, uh, anyone, we just have to forgive everyone for everything.
[SPEAKER_14]: What are we gonna forgive Dr. Lyle Evans and then hurt Cooper's like enough.
[SPEAKER_14]: And uh, and everyone and then at one point Dawn or maybe Joan is like, who's Dr. Lyle Evans and everyone's like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: And now we finally find out Dr. Lyle Evans is the doctor who cut off his balls for no reason.
[SPEAKER_14]: We don't know why they never they haven't explained why he would get an orchiectomy I did look up orchiectomy and it's like yeah, it is real It's the name of the procedure when you'd like if you have a particular cancer or what not You know, but don't know why Bert had his orchiectomy just know that it's funny
[SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, and unnecessary, unnecessary or he act to me is doing so much work, so without telling you what's happening.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's so goddamn funny, and it also serves as like this really sweet moment where they kind of bond again, and they both decide to go out and eat.
[SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, you know, throughout the rest of, you know, these scenes are eating, they're going to the bar to listen to the fight.
[SPEAKER_14]: you're watching Don slowly reveal bits and pieces of his past to Peggy and Peggy is doing the same thing Peggy is opening up a little bit more to Don as well but they all they're both only open to a point like Don admits he fought in Korea admits that he is a local says he didn't know his mother but doesn't say that his mother is prostitute
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, and, uh, and Peggy, you know, uh, talks about how she saw her dad die, Dawn saw his dad die, but Peggy never tells him, uh, like, who the father of the baby was that she gave away.
[SPEAKER_14]: So they both, they both do still limit themselves.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, don't you think, don't you think that it's really weird that Madman really doesn't
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, for a minute, you see that the sister is raising the baby, and Peggy was living in the house.
[SPEAKER_11]: Isn't it so weird that they never circle back to that baby?
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you know, I always thought that was an interesting choice.
[SPEAKER_14]: It reminded me of the choice to ignore Sal after he gets fired, like the audience is interested in what's happening with this, but the show isn't.
[SPEAKER_12]: And it would place Sal with like Stan and the other little Weasley.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it is like, what the fuck man?
[SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so as an audience member, you're like, you know, I'm interested.
[SPEAKER_14]: What's happening with this baby?
[SPEAKER_14]: What's happening with Sal?
[SPEAKER_14]: Why aren't you telling me?
[SPEAKER_14]: And I think it's almost a statement of the time.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's like, it keeps it.
[SPEAKER_14]: honest in terms of what the general, I don't know, culture was at the time, which is like, no, Peggy wants to forget this baby completely, so Peggy will pretend as if it didn't exist.
[SPEAKER_14]: This show is set in the 60s.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's not like Dawn is going to have like a pro gay awakening at any point.
[SPEAKER_14]: So they just decide, no.
[SPEAKER_14]: We have discarded this guy for being gay, and that means discarding him from the story as well.
[SPEAKER_14]: So it's, I'm not sure if it's very similar to it or if it's just like, ah, we tried to do some storylines with it, but no one liked it.
[SPEAKER_14]: So he said, fuck it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Who knows what it is?
[SPEAKER_11]: The baby when Peggy moves into the brownstone and the fucking Spanish kid starts coming around like why not have her son show up You know, it's just a weird thing So never hear from the net the nephew and then what's his face?
[SPEAKER_11]: Who is the guy who comes back as a hurry Krishna?
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, and we care about it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and we care.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_14]: I always thought it was weird.
[SPEAKER_14]: I was like, okay, so we're gonna bring him back for one fucking episode, but uh, uh, we're not gonna, we're not gonna ever discuss that.
[SPEAKER_11]: He was great.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, I just, she mentions that baby.
[SPEAKER_11]: We see her looking in on him one time maybe three years before.
[SPEAKER_11]: And we
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I think there's still a question.
[SPEAKER_14]: I remember thinking someone's saying it's possible that that baby wasn't her baby, that that baby that she gave the baby away to someone else and this was just her sister's other newborn baby.
[SPEAKER_14]: So it might be, yeah, it was unclear.
[SPEAKER_14]: It might be possible that it's not actually hers.
[SPEAKER_14]: I think it's left pretty ambiguous.
[SPEAKER_14]: But yeah, that's just the nature of the show.
[SPEAKER_14]: The final thing we need to talk about
[SPEAKER_14]: is the call that Dawn has been dreading, making this entire time.
[SPEAKER_14]: After he gets beat up by a duck, he finally makes the call back to Stephanie.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I really love this episode, I do, I'm not trying to be a dick when I talk about this,
[SPEAKER_12]: Man, it's like they try so hard to take to take us off the hook for caring about Anna at all.
[SPEAKER_14]: So okay, buddy.
[SPEAKER_14]: So strange that like I just in one of the most emotional scenes in the episode where he makes the call, I found myself laughing at like literally Anna stays being a quote chill girl to the end.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, she stays being not a bother in the slightest.
[SPEAKER_13]: There are griefs, don't just say, don't worry about me.
[SPEAKER_13]: Don't worry about me.
[SPEAKER_13]: So, you know, I like being dead.
[SPEAKER_13]: Yes, so this is, this is that scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, I didn't call.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was, did she want to talk to me?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she wasn't really there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't make the arrangements.
[SPEAKER_01]: no need.
[SPEAKER_01]: She left her body to science.
[SPEAKER_01]: She said that she wanted to go to UCLA Medical School tuition free.
[SPEAKER_12]: She said, just save your money to put me in a trash can.
[SPEAKER_12]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, she's her, her, her other epitaph is didn't want to be a bother.
[SPEAKER_14]: So like, it is incredibly sad because, you know, this is, I think it is a very real and relatable thing to anyone who's dealt with like death, uh, you know, and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_14]: trying to, it's being put in a position where you have to be there for somebody is very, very difficult.
[SPEAKER_14]: And so when you're young, I think a lot of people have made mistakes of like, you know, putting their own feelings above the fact that, you know, it is nice to be in contact with someone who is dying.
[SPEAKER_14]: He knows she's dying and knows when these calls are happening that it is probably Anna going, hey, um, just kind of wanting to hear your voice one more time before I die and instead it's just like, Samson, I say, well, we're gonna strong to kid like there's something super bitchy about it where you're just like, what a dickhead, what a coward.
[SPEAKER_14]: And then to have him call back Stephanie,
[SPEAKER_14]: And she's just like, uh, door, about it.
[SPEAKER_14]: But you're on the school.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, you don't have to think about it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Don't think about it.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's just, it was the same thing.
[SPEAKER_14]: You know, in the episode, we saw earlier in California, the way that she just is like, you know, uh, she exists to be happy for him and exists to be like the chillest girl ever.
[SPEAKER_14]: It's just written in this way where I, it feels unrealistic to me.
[SPEAKER_11]: But she's the giving tree.
[SPEAKER_11]: She's the giving tree for for him or she just gives and gives and gives the thing the thing about it though is like maybe Matthew weiner or whoever wrote it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Why not just a weiner one or I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: I say weiner whenever I'm feeling.
[SPEAKER_11]: Maybe he's not great with women, you know, like I love the anti-drapist.
[SPEAKER_12]: This is no one by the way.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think a lot of news articles about that.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_11]: I see that.
[SPEAKER_11]: But the thing, the thing that, I mean, maybe I'm just a softy, and I know that I'm a big softy, when and I hated the ghost of Amidraper, but this time when I watched it,
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, like I like well-dupped like to be totally honest with you.
[SPEAKER_11]: I well-dupped and she's holding a suitcase and I feel like that's the reason they called the episode the suitcase because she was leaving and it was meaningful to him and when he breaks
[SPEAKER_11]: after that because he she when he doesn't call her until he sees the ghost right of a draper or whatever that is and she says she's gone and don't says I know she stopped to say goodbye to me and ghost form with their kids yeah and then like and then like when when he breaks with peggy give me a great tagline of my dream
[SPEAKER_11]: when when when when when he breaks with Peggy I I buy it like I just buy his emotional difficulty has stunted he is that he can't share anything with anybody and that she was chilling off that he could actually share himself with her right and she's a great prop for him for sure like yeah
[SPEAKER_14]: And I do believe his emotion in it and what not.
[SPEAKER_14]: And I think the show is saying a lot about him in this episode.
[SPEAKER_14]: But again, it's like the problem that I've had from the beginning with Anna Draper has been her existing as a prop in the show.
[SPEAKER_14]: But the ghost thing I thought was, I thought it was very good.
[SPEAKER_14]: But the in watching it and watching though the big smile on her face the way that she's you know shows up She's beautiful both of her legs are working.
[SPEAKER_14]: She's walking.
[SPEAKER_14]: She's smiling.
[SPEAKER_14]: She got the suit case And it's just another instance of don't you worry about me big boy
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I'm okay in heaven now and yeah, you know, he has a big cry in front of Peggy and Peggy is, you know, consoling, consoling him and he seems like she's about to like leave, finally go home.
[SPEAKER_14]: And she gets the elevator to leave and then for the third or fourth time in this episode turns around goes back to the office and she goes to sleep.
[SPEAKER_14]: She wakes up and everyone's back at work and they're, you know, talking about the episode we didn't see with them all watching this, you know, fucking watching the fight.
[SPEAKER_14]: Which I love the episode we didn't see is like that to me is like,
[SPEAKER_14]: It's, it's what makes this episode so special, I think, is like, there's a whole other madman episode happening with a bunch of hack-need storylines that they just, you know, we're like, now, fuck that.
[SPEAKER_14]: This is just going to be what's happening between Dawn and Peggy, and it's perfect, and I love it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, and uh, yeah, then Dawn pitches an ad where suit case is recreating the, uh, alley, uh, you know, KOing list and photo, Peggy shits all over it.
[SPEAKER_14]: They hold hands, Peggy, uh, finally goes home, and that's the end of the episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: But then he says, come back in an hour and get the 10 tag.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_11]: He does.
[SPEAKER_11]: I know you have to go to far rock away, but he come back.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: He basically is just like, all right, you know, take a shower, you know, get, get dressed, smell good, you know, and then come back here and get your ass to fucking work.
[SPEAKER_14]: Because you still are my bitch forever.
[SPEAKER_12]: And then we roll Simon and Garfunkel, which is one of those fucking needle drops that I think shouldn't work on me anymore, but you know, it's like the tried and true West Anderson slash the holdovers move where, you know, you play like a little bit of critical treat.
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you drop that needle drop of them from the 60s and it's like, oh, yep, got me love those got fuckers.
[SPEAKER_14]: Um, and yeah, and that's the episode, uh, a, a favorite scene, a least favorite scene or something we didn't talk about events.
[SPEAKER_12]: Um, I think I, oh, um, there's one point where like I wasn't sure if he was doing it on purpose or duck is telling Peggy.
[SPEAKER_12]: She's like, he's like,
[SPEAKER_12]: We got tampax.
[SPEAKER_12]: It's a 50% market share.
[SPEAKER_12]: They're really up there.
[SPEAKER_12]: And it's like, is he doing like a tampon joke?
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I didn't get that, but you're right.
[SPEAKER_12]: I think he is.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, isn't sure.
[SPEAKER_12]: And then he switches, like, he almost steps on his own joke.
[SPEAKER_12]: Because he's, because then he says, anyway, that queer from Belgium, Lee blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[SPEAKER_12]: I don't know whether he knew that he was doing a joke or not, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I love that the queer from Bell, Joe Lee gets another mention, but Sal's still never another god damn mention.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Dave, a favorite scene at least, favorite scene or something we didn't talk about.
[SPEAKER_11]: One thing we didn't talk about is how the other women dominated Peggy in the bathroom.
[SPEAKER_11]: Fuckin' off.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, fucking Pete's wife and fucking, what's your name, Don Megan.
[SPEAKER_11]: And they're like, you're really quick.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're really successful.
[SPEAKER_11]: Now I'm gonna go out and have a good night.
[SPEAKER_11]: You can stay here, like, as you saw.
[SPEAKER_11]: So that was something we didn't acknowledge.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then,
[SPEAKER_12]: I really being a working girl.
[SPEAKER_12]: Anyway, off to the club.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I'm going to watch them pound each other now.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is awesome, but I love how much you guys love this episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love being in their office.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's always good after hours in the office, but my favorite moment, I think.
[SPEAKER_11]: is when you describe that she goes to the elevator and she comes back and she decides she's going to sleep and the lights are out and as soon as she lies down the fluorescent lights click on us and that's and that's when she feels comfortable to fall asleep and it's like it says this thing about her relationship at that office and I'm like yeah I like that and fucking bleak her straight at the end it hit me so hard so it's perfect it is so good
[SPEAKER_14]: And if I had to give this episode a letter grade, I truly do think it is the best episode of Madman thus far, and it might be, you know, the best Madman episode there is, and I mean that like genuinely.
[SPEAKER_14]: So yeah, I'd have to give it a B plus, Vince, what would you give this episode to you?
[SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I got to agree, Bangor, start to finish, like one of the...
[SPEAKER_14]: best episodes of one of the greatest TV shows of all time and uh... you know therefore it's uh... it gets us all to be plus from oh yeah uh... date what would you give this episode if you had to give it a letter great i give it a b plus oh my god guys is a b plus episode of madman and of course in a plus plus plus plus episode of matters of a man Dave thank you so much for coming back and talking madman with us
[SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_11]: I really appreciate you guys having me of course.
[SPEAKER_14]: Where can I really do well.
[SPEAKER_14]: I love I love having you on and of course You will be back more and more and more and more because you are the best and we love you Where can people find you?
[SPEAKER_11]: Uh, wherever there is injustice, I, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_14]: We're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking, we're walking
[SPEAKER_14]: into a new name this is we have four names this week and two of them are already nicknames which is very annoying and I don't know what to do about that but I looked at the email address I looked at like you know as a a is there any other fucking names nope these are the names so first we're starting with Captain solo Captain solo.
[SPEAKER_12]: That's not a real name.
[SPEAKER_12]: He's already got a nickname.
[SPEAKER_12]: Let's gonna I'm gonna pretend
[SPEAKER_12]: Captain Solo is his real name, and I'm on a rename him, Captain Crunch, because that's the sound of his socks are making, because it's a song of the police.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, because it fell to come.
[SPEAKER_12]: I look at this, Captain Solo sounds like a guy who jacks off a lot.
[SPEAKER_14]: That actually is really good.
[SPEAKER_14]: That really worked out well.
[SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if they did it.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_14]: Next we have Jackson Turner.
[SPEAKER_12]: We're gonna call this guy the spatula because he's the turner that you need for all of your pancake needs.
[SPEAKER_14]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_14]: All right, next we have Bipi Strelo 65.
[SPEAKER_12]: Bipi Strelo, we're gonna call this guy number one because he's always going Pipeee.
[SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I like that.
[SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_12]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_12]: It sounds like it's Italian for someone who's going P.B.
[SPEAKER_14]: P.B.
[SPEAKER_14]: Strelo is a really great name.
[SPEAKER_14]: I hope that's a real name.
[SPEAKER_14]: But it also does sound like if someone was making up a funny Italian name.
[SPEAKER_14]: P. Strelo.
[SPEAKER_14]: And last but not least Ian Williams.
[SPEAKER_12]: Ian Williams, Ian, we're going to call this guy Dala because his last name is William.
[SPEAKER_12]: We're going to get this like Dala Bill.
[SPEAKER_12]: Y'all, you know, explain that.
[SPEAKER_12]: What do you mean?
[SPEAKER_12]: Ian Williams, Ian Bill.
[SPEAKER_12]: We're going to call him Dala Bill.
[SPEAKER_12]: Ian Bill.
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh Bill, okay, okay, so I took a few, but I do understand that and that's very good So congratulations to you Dala Bill and to all of the people got their shout-outs You too can get a shout out by going to patreon.com slash frutcast and joining the $8 or more tier
[SPEAKER_14]: If you have any questions or questions or questions, comment and concerns, what is a Google voice number?
[SPEAKER_14]: Ooh, blue and five, two, seven, five, zero, zero, three, zero.
[SPEAKER_14]: All right, everyone.
[SPEAKER_14]: Thanks again, so much for listening, and until next time, I don't think about you at all.
[SPEAKER_15]: You and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I, you and I
[SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I'll be burned, they'll be... Why?
[SPEAKER_15]: Why did you start the song?
[SPEAKER_15]: Hey, keep telling Marl, wait for me, wait for me Mark's waiting with her
[SPEAKER_15]: And all of that sounds like working late, working late Draper, ruins her food
[SPEAKER_15]: God should be God's and it is not God's and shall be just going and not God's hands God's and only He is somehow
[SPEAKER_15]: Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
[SPEAKER_11]: Is it my family?
[SPEAKER_11]: Can you hear my family through the walls?
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, maybe that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_14]: It was probably your family.
[SPEAKER_11]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_11]: My family doesn't respect the process of recording me at all.
[SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_14]: That first, for a second there, I was like, well, something's happening.
[SPEAKER_14]: I got a little scared.
[SPEAKER_14]: You have an olive garden on the other side of the wall?
[SPEAKER_11]: Probably my family is just just like an off-guard next up.
[SPEAKER_11]: No no no unlimited breadsticks Norse allets.
[SPEAKER_14]: Yes, it's just just may ham and annoyance and fear of the the breadsticks are very limited All right, where are we?
[SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, and I suck on the dicks till I'm dead clock, glug, no Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug,