[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, all, and welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am Tara Kornwin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my name is EJ Kornwin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the first question I have for you is, does it feel like your partner does everything?
[SPEAKER_02]: They manage your schedule.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do all the house cleaning.
[SPEAKER_02]: They take care of all the kids, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: From the outside, it looks pretty amazing, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You have this partner who just,
[SPEAKER_02]: does everything without even having to ask.
[SPEAKER_02]: But inside, you feel kind of crowded out, you feel criticized, you feel judged.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it feels like there's almost no room for you to do it the right way.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you just either pull back,
[SPEAKER_02]: or kind of disappear in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: If this sounds familiar, you might be married to an over-functioner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and the tricky part is, and believe me, this is something we're always working on as, you know, I end up a lot of times feeling lazy, or maybe even looking lazy, like maybe looking, like, I'm disengaged, and I feel useless, a lot of times I feel like really, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: anxious when it's happening, and it starts to feel like I don't know how to contribute.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on today's episode, we want to really help you guys understand what it's like to be married to an over-functioner, why you react the way you do, and how to stop the pattern without turning your partner into a villain, which is huge, because I don't want you to be the villain in my story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to stop the villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why don't you start it out, baby?
[SPEAKER_00]: You are the one married to an over-functioner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we did last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did this whole episode on really terror side of the street, on what it's like to be an over-functioner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like why that happens sort of the cost on her side.
[SPEAKER_02]: and this week we're talking about like what it's like to be the partner of the over-functioner and you know yeah I mean the big thing you know we kind of alluded to it in the intro is the over-functioner takes up so much space
[SPEAKER_02]: that then I find myself just like pulling back, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And almost like unconsciously, trying less, you know, and then that doesn't help at all, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if like, if I have this perception that terror is doing everything, or if the way I do it isn't right or isn't correct, they get to part where you just sort of quit,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, or at least you under function, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You become the under function.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, also, too, because you're feeling inadequate and I'm feeling resentful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then it just, right, we keep piling up that narrative.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, yeah, I don't have a partner who's going to help because A, I don't know how to express it in a way that feels curable for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're already feeling inadequate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was for sure our dynamic, like that we kept pursuing unconsciously.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a systems thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: right, but if you're feeling inadequate, of course you're going to pull away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm feeling really anxious and criticizing you and judging you and blaming you, yeah, do you see it's like the perfect, what's the key for?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a perfect storm to actually allow the over-functioner to just function more and more and more.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then as life, you know, as things get sort of like piled on,
[SPEAKER_02]: then they just take on more and more and more and more.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I think one of the biggest things for me is that you do start to feel like useless and incompetent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's the big thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I can think of like the example of like cleaning the kitchen like because I genuinely,
[SPEAKER_02]: don't want to her to burn herself out and I want her to feel supported, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So like I will I'll clean the kitchen for instance and I'll done it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks good to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll wipe the counters and then she'll come back and she'll wipe the counters after I've wiped the counters.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so again there's this part of me is like well why am I doing it in the first place?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like like why
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's almost like in this case like it's for no purpose because you're going to you're going to do it again anyway and so you do like I found I found myself over the years where I just like I pull back and then that doesn't feel good at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, on the pulling back too, for you is, you feel resentful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, how many times are we sitting in a room with couples where it's like, why even try it won't be good enough anyway, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the idea is like being able to build that communication, we're like, Tara, I gotta let you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I wiped out the counters and you coming over and doing it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, makes me feel like you don't trust me, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it takes skills to get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it took us quite some time to understand what was even happening in the first place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think then what happens, I pull back and then there's a power imbalance, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, it starts to feel like, well, terror is in charge of everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: which doesn't feel good.
[SPEAKER_02]: It definitely in like gender roles and intimacy, it starts to get really messed up, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that like I can sort of feel like I'm the kid and we hear this all the time with couples where one person will say it's like I have three children instead of two, like that they're partner, the partner of the over-functioner is like another child, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: I can definitely say that myself and others that are on that flip side, you feel like a child because if you're like, well, like, I literally can't wipe the counters and they correct way.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it feels like to be a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but here's the biggest piece in all of this because we understand it now and we help so many couples understand it better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in those moments where we're trapped,
[SPEAKER_00]: did not have to be so responsible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want freedom and you're like this, I don't know if you're nine, maybe you're like, you know, getting good in teenager.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like, I become like that, like, well, because people criticize you, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: When you were like young because of your test taking or homework stuff, like a lot of different stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we've got like kids involved
[SPEAKER_00]: Making each other like really bad people in that moment and once you can start to repair and Rebalance you're like now you're really adulting and now that feels better, but just think in that moment I'm an unconscious nine-year-old like I just want to play and have fun and not be responsible And I'm craving someone to come and save me and you're like this, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: in dignity, being like, being my part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Telling me what to do, like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what it does is, and Tara spoke in the last episode about that resentment that happens for the over-functioner, where they feel like they are responsible for everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: The flip side is the partner feels like nothing I do is enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: They feel like there is no space for me to walk into, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then you have two people who are deeply resenting one another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we know that that's a set up for bad communication.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a set up for not expressing love,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's worse, it gets into a place of just like, we're both people are contemptuous, they just are like, they're so buried in anger and resentment that there's no room for love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's shift to repair and rebalance, because oh my gosh, you are talking to two people who have done it, and it still comes up, but we're so much better at individually recognizing
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 49, you're 53.
[SPEAKER_00]: Three, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can be our adult selves now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying, like, I love my over-functioning part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she was my survival queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love her.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are no bad parts, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love that part of me because she got me to where I'm at today.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, I get to tell her now from, like, my adult self.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're safe like you've got this awesome partner who like wants to support you and it doesn't have to be perfect and if it's not perfect you won't get hurt right because my you know my growing up my caregiver had OCD and if things weren't perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: it was really bad so my little nervous system just is like if it's not perfect like things will go to hell and that's not true now but like I have to like tell myself that so I love that part of me and she's always trying to come out in different ways but now I can internally have a discussion with her which then helps me be more receptive when I'm like hey AJ right here's what I'm
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for the partner, it's the understanding what's going on, that instead of categorizing the over-functioning, the correction as control, yes, knowing that it's anxiety-based, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's a big shift, because then there's the ability one to have empathy, that like if,
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is still like, and you know, going back to the white, the wiping the counters is like, I just wipe the counters, okay, she's wiping them again, instead of being like,
[SPEAKER_02]: God, she's judging me and she doesn't think I wiped them down correctly, knowing, oh, that's her anxiety.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's not even like really trying to do that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what that does is it creates for me, like a different pathway, because the pathway I go with when it's controlling is, you see, she doesn't trust me,
[SPEAKER_02]: you see she thinks I have I get everything wrong I go into a story right and that story is is not a good one right it doesn't it doesn't feel good it doesn't bring us closer together and so I need to recognize it's anxiety but I also do share responsibility and like I have to communicate to terror about it I have to find
[SPEAKER_02]: that ability to be like, hey, can we pause for a second, honey, can we talk about like, you know, you asked me to clean the kitchen and I clean the kitchen and I want us to have shared responsibility, you know, because that's what we're systemically, that's what we're trying to go back to is creating a system where she doesn't have to do everything, where she doesn't
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I have to be okay tolerating the anxiety, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's going to be different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a history of trauma.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to be different because for me it's like that sense of survival truly.
[SPEAKER_00]: is there like if things aren't perfect I truly feel unsafe but I've worked on managing and tolerating that anxiety so that other people in my life can become who they need to be not who I think they should be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think like you know it's important to say like in our circumstance I think it is a little more amplified but I think that this you know the over-functioning
[SPEAKER_02]: under-functioning relationship is one that can happen when there's not, like, really profound trauma as well, but it's just sort of a dynamic that sort of builds in this way of, there's just one person as a little more anxious about, like, getting everything done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: right and just just identifying that and then being able to have that communication around it like hey do we have like this dynamic in our relationship where you just like feel like you have to do everything in order for it to get done right or you know yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because in this is a great line we wrote down, is healthy partnerships require collaboration, not control and avoidance, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the dynamic that we fall into sometimes, that's the dynamic we see a lot of couples, is it doesn't feel collaborative anymore?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's control and avoidance.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna try to control to create an outcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is just too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's overwhelming.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just going to like, I'm just going to avoid.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to stay well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the core of that is like an entire system of mistrust.
[SPEAKER_00]: which then right totally erodes emotional safety.
[SPEAKER_00]: And guess what, we're here to help you build that and understand all the stuff from all the stuff that we go through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is another interesting one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still trying to wrap my head around a little bit as a healthy collaborative relationship is not 50, 50.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's each person functioning.
[SPEAKER_02]: in their own role.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense that it's that that because there are like there should be like this ebb and flow of like, well, you know, I take on a little more in this realm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you take on a little more in this totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our strength.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it feels like balanced for what it needs to be balanced for our relationship again every relationship is different, but I mean if you listen to the part one and today is part two, it's like first of all having the conversation, even if it's yourself, am I an over a functioner or am I married or in a relationship with an over a functioner?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what that does to us internally, and then having that conversation with your partner may be listening to this episode, these two episodes, sharing because it really is about understanding the pattern first, bringing that awareness into it, and then how to shift it so we don't reinforce the narrative that continues the resentment, the over-functioning, the exhaustion, and we're here to support you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and I think like one last thing is there's this creating space for each person to say like what's underneath the surface.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The fraternity just be able to say that like look it's just like this impulse I have.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just like I feel like I have to I have to clean it one more time you know I have to do this and it's me being able to say like I hear that I hear that.
[SPEAKER_02]: but it just like feeds so deeply into the fact that I don't ever get anything right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that you're both able to talk to those like that underbelly of yourselves, which is like the more vulnerable part and it's the more connecting part.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't want to
[SPEAKER_02]: under-simplify this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why we have things like our direct coaching, where Tara and I work with couples individually.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're interested in that, just book a complimentary discovery call.
[SPEAKER_02]: The link is in our show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we have our Patreon community where you can join for free and get daily tips.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the link is down there as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have like a $25 membership, where there's
[SPEAKER_02]: companion videos for our at home manual that's that's available on Amazon.
[SPEAKER_02]: These type of things aren't quick fixes and sometimes you need a little bit of support in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to say too, our relationship renovation at home manual on Amazon.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 25 bucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could just get that and go through the 31 lessons.
[SPEAKER_00]: and build curiosity with your partner without even doing anything else too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do have that podcast community for $25 a month that does a deeper dive into the ad home manual, but like $25 like it talks about all of these different types of things and how to become aware of the patterns that are working for your relationship that you can have a relationship that feels good for you because we're all different.
[SPEAKER_02]: and hey, stay tuned and even reach out if you want to coaching at relationship for innovation.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a retreat that we're planning.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're only going to have a couple of spots open and it's going to be in Sedona and October and it's going to be an incredible experience at a supermarket.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just got my fire all done.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, well, thank you so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, if you're really relating to this or if sharing this podcast with someone could really create some insight, even some just validation this happens all the time, please make sure you share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please, we love it when you review us, even though we can't respond back to your reviews, just reading them creates that passion that we have, that we know that we're not just sitting here in this room.
[SPEAKER_00]: talking to ourselves that we are actually having an impact at least on one couple.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as always, thank you so much for listening, take care of yourself, take care of each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye-bye.