[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is a member of the Voices of Wrestling Podcasting Network.
[SPEAKER_00]: Visit Voicesof Wrestling.com to hear the rest of our great podcast as well as show reviews, columns, opinions, and updates across the world of wrestling.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at that one so hard!
[UNKNOWN]: Hope you fall!
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Open The Voice Gate for March 17th, 2026.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is 308 Central Standard Time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mike Spears.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Joe and alongside K-Slow, and we're going to start this episode with a press release that was released earlier this morning, a hit Twitter at least so it was in the sport block before this, but a hit Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: at approximately 9 a.m. Central Standard Time.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a clean translation of what was posted on the Dragon Gate blog and later re-chweeted.
[SPEAKER_01]: To all concerned parties and fans, we sincerely thank you for your continued support of Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have recently become aware of a former affiliated wrestler of Dragon Gate, has disseminated information containing numerous false statements, suggesting that our company and its related parties were involved in serious legal acts in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: Needless to say, there's absolutely no truth to any claim that our company or its related parties were involved in such serious legal acts.
[SPEAKER_01]: We find it extremely regrettable and susceptible that such baseless information has been unilaterally disseminated.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have already retained legal counsel regarding this matter with respects to acts that constitute defamation and damage to our credibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Such as in in this case, we are considering strict measures including legal action.
[SPEAKER_01]: Furthermore, we will continue to place the highest priority on compliance and remain committed to the continued development of Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We sincerely asked everyone to not easily believe or spread false information.
[SPEAKER_01]: We deeply apologize for any concern that this situation may have cause and we ask you for your continued support of Dragon Gate going forward March 16th, 2026, Dragon Gate Company, limited.
[SPEAKER_01]: in case it is time with that to have a very serious and deep talk about the shima and magentokio talk show that happened on February 28th.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been working on this for a couple weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: This news hit kind of hit today, but I think we kind of just go from here on this, but before we get really deep into the nitty gritty,
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a serious kind of situation that we wanted to put all the time and effort, and we have had people that have very nicely helped us out with our research and translations and such for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to point that out before we get going a lot of this, is actual translation, not machine translation.
[SPEAKER_01]: We find that to be kind of important considering some of the things that we're going to be talking about on this episode, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this feels like the biggest thing that we've talked about since maybe the departures of Kenton, Fujiwara, which is something that we were we were incredibly close to and very much on in the summer of 2022.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was a story that you and I had considered breaking a few different times and we just continued to hold off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe in part, wishful thinking, hoping that something would change that it never did and, you know, Dave Meltzer was one that ended up breaking that story
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were very quick to back him up because we had heard the same things that Dave had and that before that you have to go back to the split and 2018 which will come up on this show quite often and I always credit you with you having your ear to the ground and you being in the right place at the right time and I would say over the decade that I have covered dragon gate those feel like maybe
[SPEAKER_00]: two really big stories in this, you know, as we're what feels like now in the early stages of this story could very easily be the third biggest thing that we've talked about, but just to to set context a little bit mic if you don't mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: explaining why Magnum Tokyo and Shima are back together, why Magnum Tokyo and Shima were doing a talk show together and when exactly that was again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this kind of follows up when we were talking in this would have been in January about Shima going free lands from Glate and launching his own note blog service, which is a blog that's popularized within Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Japan, and it's also noted as a way to kind of do like a fan-based like donation system for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking about him and his take on his departure from Dragon Gate back in January.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this story kind of dates all the way back to, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: I commend Jiro Kirchio's uptown produce and when Magam Tokyo kind of came in from out of the dark in 2024 and after that him and Shima quickly reconnected at that show and it's like 19 years haven't happened between the two and
[SPEAKER_01]: all through that through 2025 they reestablish their relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's things that happen in 2025 that we will be talking about from this talk show on this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it all culminates on February
[SPEAKER_01]: A fan meat talk show, essentially, with him in Magnum Tokyo capitalizing on the obvious interest of the two aces of the Tory Monera getting together and talking they have a reporter by name of Osaki work as the MC for this and there's a two and a half hour talk show that happens and
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing really hits the internet until last week with the Yamato's response to a Yahoo Sports article of talking about things that were mentioned during the talk show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It later, Magnum Tokia, who does not have any social media whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: starts a YouTube channel where he posts approximately two and a half hours of this talk show.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from here, we should kind of actually get into the content of the talk show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me stop you there, let me stop you there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a few things that I think, a few things that I think are relevant here.
[SPEAKER_00]: One is that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Magnum was the first Tory Monnase.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's one of all to his first students in 1997, where Chima Magnum, Dragon Kid, Don Fuji, and Sue, those are the guys that make their way to Mexico first.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the original Tory Monn class.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been thinking a lot about them this week as we sort of ramp up and approach the 10-year anniversary of the class of 2016 now, and I've seen Heo tweeting a lot about this recently, where you know, it's been, you know, Mike, you have voice gate listener.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what he's saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: You basically did tweet about last week's episode, but nevertheless, you know, coming up all 10 years of Ben and Heo and Chew and I know Sheoka and I, I'm planning on doing some writing about those guys here in the near future, because I think the only class you can possibly compare them to, the only class that might
[SPEAKER_00]: be better than they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the original five, but the original five leave behind such an odd legacy with Magnum being the weirdest of the bunch and part of the reason that it's no worthy that he came back and resurfaced on the zero produce show and then the stuff that he did with Harata and DDT is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum leaves dragon gate in 2006 and I have direct quotes of him talking about that press conference and talking about his exit from the company that will get to during the course of this podcast, but magnum leaves dragon gate, you know, for all types of purposes in 2006 he officially leaves in 2007 and outside of a brief stand and hustle, which then he would leave because hustle was running out of money and he was not going to work for free.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hustle got kind of lumped in to pride in the D.S.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yakuza scandal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it had no money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum was.
[SPEAKER_00]: gone completely in the 2010s it's part of what makes his legacy as audits it is when you're a new dragon gate fan jumping in is he has no ties to a bushy road era of Japanese professional wrestling he was a ghost he was gone nobody saw him you and I would hear things maybe once a year it's like oh Magnum Tokyo is teaching karate but he's in very poor health you know there's a lot of hearsay about I only saw
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I have up until 2024, I had only seen one somewhat recent photo of Magnum Tokio and that might have been in the mid 2010s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he went to dirt and he just disappeared and he had was going to teach karate across the world and that was the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing about Magnum is that he has this eye injury in 2006.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is somewhere there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's summarily fired in 2007, and he goes dark, and he was completely unseen for essentially 18 years, and now he has come out all guns ablaze, I'm essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's why a few years ago when Sua resurfaced that it was such a big deal to some of us because Sua, you know, defected from Dragon Gate and then had a very nice career in Noah and was around at the very least.
[SPEAKER_00]: But after that second stint of Noah that he had, which I think it had been 2013, Sua also,
[SPEAKER_00]: disappeared and you and I heard very scary things about Sue is health and how he was near death and it's why when he started going to those house shows in 2022 and 2023 it was a real feel good story and I've mentioned it on this podcast before that you know I had conversations with Sue and I really tried to nail down an interview with him and
[SPEAKER_00]: for a few different reasons that interview just did not work out of the way that I was hoping that it would and then Sua got sick again and we haven't really heard from him but it's it's very funny to me and it's very strange to me that you know one I've had conversations with Sua and two that is a man who follows my personal Instagram and so everyone's well
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll look at, you know, I'll post a video from like a punk show in Chicago and I'll look to see who looked at it and Sue is one of the names on the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Masaki Bochizuki will be right behind it, which is a very weird life that I live.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Sue and Masaki Mochizuki, watching your turn style.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's a very, it's a very strange thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, Magnum was,
[SPEAKER_00]: just this a nigma.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, part of it, and this goes back to just the weird legacy that he has, and this is why I think this story is such a big deal is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to remember at the beginning of Torimon, you know, Magnum is the star.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that Dragon Gate would be right, they said this point is Torimon.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the way that Torimon would be covered to some degree was
[SPEAKER_00]: But God damn Magnum Tokyo's insurance.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was all those the way that the publications would talk about Tory on time after time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even as his career got really weird into 0304.05.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mentioned all the time for his greatest 2005 is for Dreggy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the best years in company history.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Magnum is sort of the weak linked
[SPEAKER_00]: because one, he's at this point, his body's already deteriorating and he's struggling to keep up in the ring, but then his booking is also so strange that it becomes a distraction at points in the promotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is a guy who was the first top star.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the first top draw.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is the guy that spearheads
[SPEAKER_00]: leaving Torium on and creating Dragon Gate and then he's gone so soon after the creation of Dragon Gate and it's just been a very odd legacy that he has left behind and so that's why it's such a big deal that he resurface when he did and that's why
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum saying these things and we'll get out of the specifics, which would be explosive of anybody had said it, but Magnum saying these things, I think, holds extra weight even compared to Shima saying them let alone, name your defect, your brother Yashi or your Shuuji condo or whoever, you know, it's just it, Magnum's gonna hold more weight.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other things that I want to note really quick is you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was not really a story.
[SPEAKER_00]: and tell you a motto made of the story, and you and I have talked at length on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I recommend everybody if they want more context on your motto's specific thoughts on Shima and the people that have left Drengeet, go back to our Kobe world 2024 for review.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, when Yamato beats Ben K for the Oprah the Dream Gate Championship and then cuts probably the closest thing that we've ever had to a shoot promo and dragon gate to close out their biggest show of the year where he wins the world title, it's a six-rate is Dream Gate Champion and he is addressing Shima and T Hawke almost by name in the promo and talking about the people that have left and talking about how he doesn't respect them and in the same way that we
[SPEAKER_00]: And a human translator transcribe some of this talk show stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We had we had the same thing for that Yamato promo to make sure that we were getting the details fully correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is something that most of the roster has stayed very quiet about, but Yamato perhaps.
[SPEAKER_00]: be at the stature that he has in Dragon Gate, perhaps the fact that he is bothered by this on a truly deeply personal level.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it may be, he is the one from the Dragon Gate side that continues to acknowledge these guys and continues to stoke the flame when he sees fit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that there's two things that we should talk about with one with the amount of that I'll just say first, odds are, and we won't, and the way that Dragon Gate operates is also kind of a story enough itself in this with the way that how it is closed off here.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a better than
[SPEAKER_01]: 50% chance that outside of Reocito and some of the other kind of wrestlers, Yamato is probably number two or number three on like the booking room death chart and when we talk about some of the things I mentioned here, it's probably
[SPEAKER_01]: not without the outside the realm of imagination in case I don't think I am telling a story of school here that Yamada was likely directly involved in some of these things that at least are mentioned it as a release like 2018 so yeah I would assume he has I mean look I would love to see a dragon gate orb chart right now because yeah I might want to make sense I want to use in the room
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if the booking committee, I don't know if this has been a goal but a year to say the least, I think maybe maybe some people are out of ideas maybe it's time we shuffle the deck a little bit get some new voices in that room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would certainly suggest doing so, but just I think from the bare bones knowledge that you and I have of the the inner workings of this company that you model has a certain level of strokes and not every wrestler has.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the person that that the stroke that I would love to see just completely editorializing is Don Fuji Stroke because allegedly he has some.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but my second point, and as a really demand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because we just saw him wrestle Ted Subaru Fuji Nami, and if so, I think he got his wish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but as it relates to the Magnum, I think that one thing that we we haven't touched on yet is the terms of is the parter because I think that that is something that as we get into the talk show itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is worth saying, like, what the story has been, I think is the fair thing to say about this, about Magnaum.
[SPEAKER_01]: And why it, and not to assassinate his character immediately, although by then in this episode, I feel like everyone's, everyone will be aware of my stance on Magnaum Tokyo in 2026, but he did not leave in good standing and he left in a certain way
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, as we're talking about some of the things that Magnum said, uh, it is a indicative on how things have operated in the company over the last 20 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Magnum did not leave on good terms, and there was, I mean, I'll just outright say it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay mentions it on his podcast that he had on I Heart DG 15 years ago, that Magnum was fired after being caught and puzzling the money from the transit fund, like the bus money, essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is something that Yamato just referenced in one of his tweets.
[SPEAKER_01]: correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that with that, and let's be about like any other like touching the only other funnel add on Magnum real quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it will shine through when we talk about some of these quotes, but you know, like she must departures more recent and she must departure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think especially for the English speaking fan base, the people that associate him with PWG and Ring of Honor and Drang at USA.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that one's been a little bit more jarring to see him.
[SPEAKER_00]: not borderline be erased from history, but to be erased from history.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very odd thing, but she must be with President Keto, who now runs the company.
[SPEAKER_00]: The spot that Magnum was in was he helped start Dragon Gate with President Ocomora, but then he had a falling out with Ocomora and he had a falling out with Keto.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was just completely annexed from the history of this
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I not to go completely far ahead, but he talks about in this talk show that essentially he was Ultimo's bag man, essentially leading up to Torimon, Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And essentially, when Okomora kind of got put in, Okomora brought in Keto and he says that he essentially got kind of forced out of the room by illegitimate business person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not legitimate business person with quotation marks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like someone who actually is not a wrestler who actually runs businesses or works in like a standard office environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a big issue that I think bleeds through this entire two and a half hour talk show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me read from a portion of the talk show in which both Magnum Tokyo and Schema talk about their departures from Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for the Magnum stuff, this will largely just reemphasize some of the points that we've made in the beginning of this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll end with the Schema stuff, which I feel like at this point, you and I have a pretty strong timeline of wins some of this stuff happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we haven't really talked about Schema.
[SPEAKER_00]: We won't talk about Schema time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Mac and Tokyo show, but nevertheless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we've, and the sheema point, I would say, if we're looking at this from a timeline of, from Sheema over the last few months, he's been very, very consistent about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And nothing that he has said on this talk show, really has contributed to anything that he has said.
[SPEAKER_01]: And really, the one news note from Sheema on this talk show is the same thing that we have noted.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like that sheema would like to do it, or I can get him after a really retired.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like the one thing that Sheema really kind of says during this entire thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I think that is going to be much tougher once we get through some of these transcription.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Magnum says concerning his leaving dragon gate, I was summarily kicked out by the head of the company at the time alongside the managing director who is now the current chief executive, which that would be President Keto correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the president of the company up until 2018 was Takashi Okamura who passes away in 2025, that will become an important note later on in the show and Toru Kita who comes aboard essentially in 2004, who is the managing director up until 2018, but then becomes the actual president of Dragon Gate from 2018 until present.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Magnum says that he was kicked out by both of those guys, and he continues, quote, in the exact same way that Tatyama, who is head of events at the time, would be kicked out 18 months later, that's just the fact of the matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they held the press grum, I was absolutely sick to my stomach, fed up of so many things.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I told them I was leaving wrestling behind, they were sponsoring the company, would handle the arrangements for the press grum, and that's how we got, quote, extended hiatus, but for all intents and purposes, I'm gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: In quote, at the time I was in really poor physical condition and I just thought those dickheads were taking the absolute piss.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no desire whatsoever to be involved in wrestling ever again, Ozaki then asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the host of the talk show, but at that point surely you could have jumped shift to another promotion being as popular as you were.
[SPEAKER_00]: magnum response don't think that hadn't crossed my mind when they'll offer from hustle came in as tenorus comment tenorus comment was quote it doesn't matter what you've said that you were quitting wrestling that was circumstances dictating come on over to us and quote and that is when i spoke to yama gushi who has had a hustle the time he had the absolute nerve to say
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, don't you know you've got some horrible reputation in the industry so you should try working somewhere else as a free agent will arrange that somewhere else so once you're cleared your so once you've cleared your trial then we'll go ahead and sign you to hustle that's how I want to do it to which I told him I wasn't going to admit to doing things I had never done and left I then apologize to tender saying quote I'm really sorry just act like this whole thing never happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then on the karate front, there were noises being made about going to Columbia, where Magnum was sent to work as an instructor in a certain dojo, and that sounded right at my alley.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I decided to set off for Columbia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told Yamaguchi that if I ever came back to Japan, it was feeling up for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be open to listening to an offer, but I wasn't about to own up to things I never actually did, so I turned down his contract.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before you jump in, Mike and get thoughts on that, because that sounds like Magnum denying some of the
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to read what she may have to say right after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was she must as at the time Magnum Left, I just thought, oh, that absolute bastard, the only time I learned the truth what you all heard earlier was when we reunited last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was young then, so I got caught up in the false image of him that had been perpetuated and that was not the truth of the matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just sort of accepted I probably never seen him again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said this to Magnum's face previously, but if there were some sort of like-low gauge for how I felt about him back then, it would have been 99% low than 1% like.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really odd, but you don't see the person for a year than two years, three years, over time that gauge begins to shift.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being able to finally see him again last year, being able to ask him things about that time and get his thoughts on nagging concerns I had by the end of it quite frankly, the gauge had completely flipped.
[SPEAKER_00]: I effectively did not hate the man.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was so much stuff he beat in to me when I was 18 or 19 and just chatting with the family at home, as well as every three four months he'd always come up in conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what Magnum's getting up to these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd sort of like to see him again.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know anything about the guy anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So last year there was a show I've been put on and I got to see him again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I got home, I was in a state.
[SPEAKER_00]: I must have just looked and acted like I had seen that dead man walking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally would not shut up about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife couldn't get to bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, I thought you absolutely hated his guts, and then you finally see him again, just what exactly happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then the next month we decided to go out for dinner, and I was on cloud nine and leaving home, I was buzzing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like 16 years old, 16 year old me, going on a first date.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys, I tell ya.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be honest, like we're not going to go through the whole two and a half hours like the that this is not that kind of show a lot of what is on Magnum's YouTube channels is essentially this kind of stuff basically guys who were for support for 18 years that like they come back together in their 40s and they realize hey you are kind of the older brother who knocked some sense into me and was kind of tough to be around but I appreciate you now and now we're forging that kind of relationship
[SPEAKER_01]: outside for essentially, and before we get into the, the allegations portions, this is what's up on Madgms YouTube is stuff like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is, yeah, just, you know, saying, I'd be saying exactly that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting to be that he doubles down on, you know, he's not going to admit to something that he didn't do because the abuzzlement story is something that has followed him for almost 20 years now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that at least as it relates to his departure and with that he also then talks about being Blackball, essentially, because of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from this departure, I have a before we get into Scheme is thing, it's worth noting that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at what Magnum has all said in a context, it does come off like a big grand conspiracy that started from in 2007 when Toro Kito pulled a fast one on him and his mind and forced him out of the company he constructed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, very odd relationship there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Ozaki asked Sheema about his departure from Drangade and Sheema says, with Drangade the only way I was ever going to leave was in a casket.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave it my all and that same principle applies to Glate which I left last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't
[SPEAKER_00]: know how all of you see, but I always try to do my very best, put every last ounce of effort into what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been writing about this in my blog since going freelance, but I've been trying to own up to my side of the things without casting at aspergents, just writing about going goings on at the time, and that includes the day I decided to leave slash quit dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gone to Mexico and on the way to the airport, I told the person seeing me off that I was going to create a way for Drain Gate in Tijuana, then got on my flight and the meantime back in Japan, it seems like everything kicked off and so when I was getting in the bed in Mexico, I got a phone call asking me when I was coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told them I'd be back on X-State.
[SPEAKER_00]: The response was, quote, we want you back now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I fly back to Japan, we speak about plans going forward, and I wasn't completely on board with all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, if this is how things are going to be, then reckon I'll be leaving sooner rather than later, and that's exactly what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I reunited with Magnum, I brought this up, and he said he'd basically heard the same exact thing however many years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for Shima that's been consistent from him dating back into the blogs was this timeline of going to Mexico getting called back getting essentially bombarded in a is a kaya and
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Saka, where they said, hey, we are going against, uh, Okamura.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, are you a board with us?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and Shima out of obligation to Okamura refuses.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a, unnamed, young wrestler says, well, I guess that means we're amenities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Enemies now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, which I think I have assumed to be Yamato.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, at least from how it would be, I would expect that it could be a motto, especially when you think about seniority, like Yamato would be viewed as a younger wrestler to the two of them because the, he debuted in 2006, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't a room with Shima and Yoshino, he's a younger wrestler compared to those two.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that's just Japanese cultural hierarchy, playing out there, the Sympai Kohai, kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is February of 2018 because Shima works two dates in Mexico.
[SPEAKER_00]: He works a crash show in Tijuana on February 16th, 2018.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shima extreme tiger and Ray Horace versus the Lucha Brothers and Ray Mysterio Jr. Then he works D to you the next night.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, this is one of those weird sliding door things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's one of the many weird Schema sliding door things that happen after he leaves dragon gate is he is he is I don't know if he's seeing the landscape and is seeing a decline in Japanese wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it is, but in the late 2010s, Schema becomes hell bent on getting back to Mexico.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the first time that I've heard him say that he really wanted to establish Dragon Gate in Tijuana, because you have to remember, you know, when they split from Tory him on, and that's the approach that was, you know, based in Naukampon for, you know, 97 through 2004, and then, you know, all spoke continued running shows and running the Dojo for a time after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once Dragon Gate becomes established,
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have any ties to Mexico until the Millennials in 2012 when A2 goes on excursion and when T-Hoc goes on excursion and then when UT, you know, basically under the cloak of darkness joins them for a little bit in the spring of 2013.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was something that they had largely completely abandoned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean by that, you know, by the time that I started watching Dragon Game in late 2013, I wasn't looking at it as
[SPEAKER_00]: Japan's version of Lucha Libre, whereas maybe people that we're getting in a tournament at the time would have.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was something that they had completely divested from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Shima seems hell bent here on getting Dragon Gate into Tijuana in 2020.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked at length about him moving to Mexico and wanting to be full-time with Triple A and the pandemic sort of squashing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that kills his AEW career and his Triple A career, which is why I've always told people when they judge Shima with great,
[SPEAKER_00]: I always, I go, that was never the plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that, that is the great glass in case of emergency.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have to be a global pandemic that foresheem a back to Japan plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that was, but it's just interesting because I have never really heard him talk about wanting to establish a presence in Tijuana before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's worth noting that Shimo is the one person and natively when I say natively within the Japanese organization that wanted to continue DGUSA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he strongly was always at the international forefront.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the fact that when DGUSA closes up when it does, he's still trying to find that pipeline.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's all at least from what Schema says in to compare it to things that we have we have had on the show we've talked about what Schema says does line up with the story from the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: that essentially that Okamura was going out and the the that it was basically uh... the he disagreed to go along with it and it was like oh yeah at Okamura's out and we don't want you around either essentially was what was told you don't have to remind me because i don't totally remember do we know
[SPEAKER_01]: That was from a gesture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but do we know what the root of the rift between Oklahoma and dragon gate was?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, if you ask anybody in my, by number one question when I talk to people that
[SPEAKER_00]: We're in drag and gate pre and post Ocomora, you know, pre 2018 and post 2018 that the thing that I always want to know and it's come up with with a number of wrestlers over the years is how has the company changed in the new regime and from every person that you talk to.
[SPEAKER_00]: the idea of the mental health of the company has improved in a post Okomora universe is the thing that continues to run true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it was financial health too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was something that I was told essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we talked about that with Jay on an episode where
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Kobe World 2018, if I remember correctly, that was headline by Shingo versus Yoshino, which is real time, covering that in the moment, it was complete and other doomsday for Dragon Gate, because whatever the announced number for Kobe World was, people went in with low expectations, and then the number was even lower than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I recall correctly, and please correctly, if I'm wrong, but that was the first
[SPEAKER_00]: for instance, 5,000 tickets in comps to sponsors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and essentially, I'm trying to pull up the exact conversation that I've had about this, but it essentially, it was a situation where like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that Ocomorov ran his companies and I say companies plural because it kind of plays into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It did seem like that the discussion in the overall tone and not being told specific overall tone is that they were robbing John to pay Peter essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that a lot of his friends and a lot of his businessmen and I'm going to leave those with vagadies for saying friends and businessmen got kind of cut in on dragon gate things and you know that that was an undertone was that maybe and again there's no specifics and there's a bit of me being a little hesitant because Takashioka more passed away last year he cannot defend himself
[SPEAKER_01]: was never a good thing and there were always kind of discussions about what his backstory was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, to put it kindly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I just don't feel that good saying about the dead person, that I could say what my suspicion is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say my suspicion.
[SPEAKER_01]: My suspicion was that at one certain point,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'll just say.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at sort of in Torium on era core controls, I think people would agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So next in my list of things to hit on from the talk show is Shimon Magnum first talking about their relationship with Ocomora and then that sort of delves into them talking about key to where are you ready to dive into this mic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think when we talk about this thing here is, and as we case, and I kind of put this together over the last two weeks, I've had essentially like two things that are still kind of open questions to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: from this and a lot of what we will talk about, where things that we're taking from Yahoo sports articles and a battle news thing that Yahoo, I think licensed onto this.
[SPEAKER_01]: To up until this point, 342 pm Central Sand or Time Case,
[SPEAKER_01]: I have not seen and I've not been able to find out and someone might be able to go through the mag, that the mag channel is it's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and confirm this, a lot of, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I, I went, I pulled the transcript.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to do what all I could do from my side.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my cards on the table, I study Japanese.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm nowhere near fluent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm nowhere near JLPT and five for you Japanese studies.
[SPEAKER_01]: but I went through and I using a things for translation and things that have worked for us in the past and translation being quite frank.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of what Magnum says that comes from that Yahoo Sports article, I have not been able to find from the actual video that was posted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that is a important thing to point out, because is this magnum saying stuff like an offer record thing that a Yahoo sports guy goes, yeah, that sounds like a great presset, or is this something that I have not been able to fully like pull the transcript thereof?
[SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Magnum says in relation to Ocomora, and this is him talking about hanging out with Schema.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we saw each other for the first time in ages in January, and then we went out for dinner and February, so far, so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dates are a blast, a massive love in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in March, I get a message from Schema saying that he had just met with Ocomora.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd been told,
[SPEAKER_00]: things were looking very grim and he only had so much time left and she may want to know if I'd go see Okamura.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd heard from elsewhere that he had been doing poorly, so I was sort of expecting something like this to come up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two days later, I wrote back to she was saying, I don't know, the circumstances behind me leaving are too different to yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would I ever want to go visit the guy who kicked me out of the company?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been through a lot of shit these past 18 years and it's not like I can just waltz in there and act like nothing's wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's probably better off left than I wouldn't meet with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I am really glad you told him that we that you'd reconnected with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always knowing Okamura, they probably understand all of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then Sheema says, well, actually, I've got to let her for you from Okamura.
[SPEAKER_00]: That whole thing had got me wound up enough already.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so sheema ended up bearing the brun of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went off.
[SPEAKER_00]: quote yeah and what's good reading that letter now going to do me i'm not getting these 18 fucking years back i don't care what he's written in there he's just going to die anyways why should i bother best just fucking leave it and quote this was in march and we just left things at that i said i'd read it the next time we met up so in April the news came that he had passed away and i thought i was so far removed from it that it was the only thing i could do with that the only thing i could do was offer a silent prayer but then for whatever reason a lot of
[SPEAKER_00]: Memories were okomore had treated me well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was quite the odd sensation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this isn't making any sense to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me try to explain it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was 51% positive stuff where he looked after me well versus 49% of the negative stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the positive stuff won out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Conversely, I felt no such feelings towards keto.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found all of this really bizarre, poking around to see what sort of reaction there would be.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was no public acknowledgment by Dragon Gate on Okomora's death, none of the wrestlers mentioning anything on social media, and I just thought I can't believe they're still pulling shit like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The last thing I said at the time was, I'm sorry I caught up in this mess, stay well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then 17 years passed, never heard from again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, at dinner with Shima, he handed me Okamura's letter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still couldn't be bothered, so I just took it and threw it in my bag.
[SPEAKER_00]: What was more important to me was to get Hateama's details, so I could ring him up then and there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Paul is just for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is hottyama, who magnum references, and I think the first sentence that I read during this talk show, is a former Drangate office guy who was exiled from the company in 2007, and has since then not shown any interest in wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum talks about him at length in all of the hottyama stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: As I don't follow Drangate, I don't follow wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got out, I live a different life now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but if you look at Schema's YouTube, he's all or Schema's social media, he's all over it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fun and interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Magnum continues as after he gets done telling these stories about being on the phone with Hathiyama, Magnum says, and then I remember that I had Ocomora's letter.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I tracked down the bag I had thrown it in and fished it out and gave it a read.
[SPEAKER_00]: And modern parlance, it was like being given the unredacted Epstein files,
[SPEAKER_00]: full of revelations and stuff where I'd be asking myself why I was only finding out about this now and having read all of it, then I knew the reason for the radio silence on Drangates and what Ocomora died.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems there had been a falling out between Ocomora and the managing director and it had deteriorated into two men just trying to stuff their pockets as much as they could.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've not shown the letter to Sheema by the way, won't show it to him, won't let him read it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it's important to note really quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And please tell me if you disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I read his correlation to this being the Epstein files to being bad PR for dragon gate that is unrelated to pedophilia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, this is Magnum knew what he was said by saying that essentially and this is what he literally said like when I it is he calls it the obscene files we we check see like it is that just kind of like how things are no he literally calls the deathbed letter the obscene files.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he gets like this collection of reported sales data that Hadiama, I guess, of Skons, or someone who also passed away, of Skond with and gave to him that essentially he calls these drive gates up scene files.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it raises the interesting question.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I'd really like to be in a quiet room with Schema right now, because
[SPEAKER_00]: since leaving great, she must pee all run of kind of, kind of scratching his head and being like, guys, I know I was difficult, but come on, you know, I have me back give me one last drinky match.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was all going to a point that I found to be
[SPEAKER_00]: you were totally positive about it was I was like it was perversely sympathetic because I may be just like my relationship with what in terms of fandom was she but I was like ah give the guy a retirement match who cares but not so I am so curious to see what the fallout of this is because
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, Maggames, Maggames, the legend, she was knows about the letter, but she may hasn't seen it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't know what's in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to tell him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Maggames comes on his talk show and says that Ocomor wrote something that would be the drinkative clothing of the Epstein files, which to me is going to make it very hard to book Schema for a retirement match in Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I think when you look at the tone at least of the two and a half hours that are posted case, he was trying to get, like, hey, let's talk about stories about Mexico and how much we missed each other and how, you know, I hated you, but I recognized I love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's kind of what I felt like she was trying to do, but I also, at the same time, she was a smart guy he had to have known.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Magnum's going to do something that's going to get a headline, and Magnum goes and essentially goes scorch Earth on this section that is posed by Yahoo Sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very jarring thing to read, but again, I think with the context that we have, I just want to know that I have no evidence and no reason to believe that this is linked to anything that would be
[SPEAKER_01]: to the scope or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of what we were, it's a sex crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think that's worth noting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Mac and it's worth noting that Mac and it makes extreme light of both the monkey scandal and the guy and the referee that guy arrested for a crystal man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's coming up with this patches of a battery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum then details, and I won't read all this for Beton, but he details a dinner that he had in August of last year with Shima Masado Yoshino and Hachiyama in Osaka, and they note that, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: with the dinner started, it was very heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Magnum was very upset.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were talking about Ocomorra and the legacy that it leaves behind all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is something where it's actually, they got lunch at 11 in the morning and they stayed so long that the restaurant shut down, they closed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they moved to a national, is a Kaya chain in Japan and continued drinking magnum notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody there was shit faced.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they start
[SPEAKER_00]: Calling Draingate wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: It begins with them jokingly saying we're going to call Keto and get him over to the restaurant, but they end up calling Draingate wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also call Milano collection a T on his birthday, which is a very funny anecdote, but eventually.
[SPEAKER_00]: what I would assume to be the Toriumon era Dragongate wrestlers end up coming to the restaurant and hanging out with Magnum and Shima and Yoshino and at one point they go to take a group photo and that's when the unnamed Dragongate wrestler or wrestlers it's unclear.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it's plural at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go, hey, we can take the photo, but can you guys please not post it on social media?
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want this to become a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And magnum of somebody who is not on social media, but that makes him, I rate because he then realizes that he is on the side that Drengeet can't be associated with and that they can't be seen together and that people can't know that they were hanging out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And magnum calls the task to Drengeet office for instilling such behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a major part that Magnum does, and I think this is kind of a...
[SPEAKER_01]: thing that can describe it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is very tired and this is me being as charitable as possible of the opacity that Dragon Gate operates in and it comes out in a lot of different portions here it starts with this but Magnum, and I don't know if it relates to ego about him or if it's that he has his own belief of what's right and what's wrong and he's a supremely wrong individual in his mind and I think that's the only conclusion you could take.
[SPEAKER_01]: from about him at this point is that he feels very wrong and that this is could perpetuating the the events that wrong to 18 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this point in the talk show Magnum starts talking about the the time he visited the sanctuary after Okamura died in Mike for those that don't know the sanctuary was
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a part of this overall building that Ocomora owned that had part of one of his karate dojo that schools there, the body at that store was a part of it, essentially was dragon gates had quarters up until the end of the Ocomora era.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you've seen dragon gate next or the original prime zones before they moved to Kobe Laugh this hall, they all took place at this little venue that they called sanctuary but what he's really referring to
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so he's talking about going to the sanctuary and he says, so we contacted some employees from the Okamura Dojo and the atmosphere was heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: First things first, I paid my respect to the family altar thanking Okamura for the things he'd done for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's have been sets instead of prayer for Nanbu as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is somebody who worked in the Torimon and Drangate office in business affairs for a sense passed away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the go ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say that is the person that I believe gave the files to Hateama.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Magnum then continues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then they want to know exactly why I'd come and the mood got really heavy again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know how I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just spoke my mind saying, look, he might be your instructor, but I'm just going to be blunt with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's loads of shit he tried to pull on me and then I'll never be able to forgive him for loads of shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still furious about and yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Recently, I've come to feel grateful for all the things you did for me, and there are a lot of things I wanted to confer for myself, see with my own two eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Much as it pains me to be here in Kobe because believe me, I would much rather not be, I've got to have some closure, and that starts with me paying my respects to Okamura.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you can get where I'm coming from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of it came out of course that would have been the reason why and brief the Okamura Dojo side had suffered more than their fair share too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I came to realize they had been victimized as well where there are people who had been put through the exact same things I had been actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, the most shocking revelation from their side was that the current chief executive had inflicted a life altering injury on an individual.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had been blinded.
[SPEAKER_00]: On my end, I had heard several years ago someone in that circle had been subjected to violence losing their sight as a result of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was able to meet that person and it was just awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's people in the company who know about this, but whether that's one man at the top terrorizing everyone underneath him, or it's just accepted a standard procedure there, who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: The people from the Okamura Dojoite spoken to said, Draingate wrestlers and staff members and come to pay their respects.
[SPEAKER_00]: and light incense but had done so in secret without the company knowing, that's when I thought something funny was going on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the injury that one lab suffered, that was at court.
[SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, I got so worked up about that that I could have killed a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so beside myself with rage, I was even terrified of myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I stayed in chat with the people from Okamura dojo some more, bid them farewell, and left.
[SPEAKER_00]: All had been revealed, I'd found my truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there is Hatiyaama story, but we'll have to save that for later.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we left and had lunch.
[SPEAKER_00]: This dark ring cloud over our heads.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we actually set anything to each other until we got back to Osaka.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is Magnum on visiting the Okamura dojo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's definitely that is one of the big quotes that I do think that Dragon Gates probably being active about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still personally am a little unclear if he's referring to Okomora, Keto, or whoever assumed Okomora dojo's ownership, but I'm leading more towards Keto given the other stuff that he says.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess I don't know what the current state of the Okomor Dojo is and if it has any ties to pro wrestling whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: it didn't after he left like I'm fairly certain that it still exists in certain kind of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Ocomora dojo still it had like about 12 like 14 different locations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was a major it was a major facility, but it
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's continuing on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming it is, just because of how big it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I'm not positive about it being him, being Okamura, being him, or being Keto.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is what they have on Oklahoma or in Keto.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it seems fair given the context that if people feel like we're misinterpreting the the idea of Keto blinding somebody, please let us know, because you and I both I think still have a question mark hanging over our heads on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But right based on the context of everything to me, he is saying that Keto blinded somebody, people in Draingate know about it and people in Draingate haven't done anything about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: right and he's claims other things about the operation of Dragon Gate 2.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to expand all that at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: He later on in the talk goes on about the way that that he's talked to people within Dragon Gate and how Dragon Gate's history being closed off and how it handles young roster discontent claiming that wrestlers have come to
[SPEAKER_01]: when Harada and him, Kazuki Harada, the DDT wrestler who impersonates him, finally broke bread.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shen Shiro Takagi was with him and he essentially goes off on Shen Shiro Takagi and it seems like ever since.
[SPEAKER_01]: He as he mentions, he has made a big deal about the
[SPEAKER_01]: essentially of ability to quit wrestling promotions and he lays it out kind of in a very idealistic sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that like if you don't want to wrestle somewhere you should be allowed to go and that's a thing that I think is a larger kind of topic here if we want to get into that right now I don't know if you have the quotes with that part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you were what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: At this this let's talk about dragon die here because I want to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does kind of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there's a situation right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dragon die has not been seen since Uno Dostre's Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does merch is not being sold and social media has gone dark.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe it was he worked the first Osaka show on February 28th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uno Dostre's was the 23rd in Fukuoka.
[SPEAKER_00]: He worked the first Osaka show and then has not been seen since.
[SPEAKER_00]: So since the month of March because that first Osaka show was on February 28th.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have talked to a lot of people about Dragon Diya in the last week, and if you are a fan of Dragon Gate and in particular a fan of Dragon Diya, I feel comfortable saying with the information that I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: that I would expect the worst, meaning that we have probably seen dragon diea wrestle his last match and dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have heard a number of different things some from people that I trust, some from people that just like talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: None of it has been steered back towards this is a family emergency, or he's injured, or he's going through a personal problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tone of every conversation I have is that we have probably seen Dragon Dia wrestle his last match in Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: As that pertains to New Japan, I have talked to people within New Japan and it seems to be
[SPEAKER_00]: For lack of entertainment, a dark Twitter known secret at this point, New Japan is actively scouting for juniors to raid and juniors to post.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are looking to re-stock their juniors division and they are looking to do it with already existing already established wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I heard from somebody specifically today was that Dia has been labeled as somebody that is, quote, extremely potable.
[SPEAKER_00]: On top of that, I then asked a new Japan wrestler, specifically, if you knew anything about it, he said that's above his pay grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of the diet stuff, because I believe when we talk about Magnum Tokyo talking about wrestlers not being able to leave Drain Gate, which will get to that quote here in just a second, I believe he is referencing Dragon Dias specifically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're a fan of him, I would be prepared to buy Lion Mark branded T-shirt because it would appear
[SPEAKER_00]: based on the information that I have, and as a fan of the approach, I would love to be wrong, but it would appear that Daya is on his way out of Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it does seem to me to be like a thing that
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no secret about Dragon Gates pay and I a little bit the more that they got in with New Japan the more I was already going like, again, New Japan doesn't have money, but Dragon Gates Super doesn't have money, so there's that there's an aspect of that and
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that there has been, if you want to look at at least everything since 2018, there has been a concerted shuffling of older wrestlers out and some of that has been directly to pay younger wrestlers, but there has also been countless instances frankly, I mean, really of the last four years of whenever someone goes dark case and we wouldn't
[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like fortunately, it was not a full exit with Shimizu, but it has become a thing and it's really noticeable when you look at native social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's become a thing that like young wrestlers don't stick around Dragon Gate and like people are that there's a big optic hit about like okay Kaito Ashita and then the SPK and to come up with Juara situations
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not even contract based, but like the overall kind of quietness around to come in the Chicago when he left.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, this is a company that has been extremely close off about how it operates.
[SPEAKER_01]: It always handles stuff within the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does seem like that there is a situation that has happened over the last, like really.
[SPEAKER_01]: eight years of not necessarily handling exits necessarily well and I mean you can even kind of draw it back to she can go to Kagyu where it was always a thing that Shingo wanted to go freelance way before 2018 and for whatever reason the excuse was was like his contract or something would not allow him to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a question about how these contracts operate, and I am not a lawyer, and I'm especially not a Japanese business all lawyer, but given the things that Magnum has said about like the roster members and young wrestlers not being able to go, it does make you wonder, like, is this like a contractual based thing where they are contractually like signing over their
[SPEAKER_01]: They're ability to work for that time period and can only work within this one company or is this a latent unspoken kind of blackball sort of thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very odd situation, you know, about three weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this would have been when Dio was still actively wrestling and dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: The poster for the spring, the kido tour dropped.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all thought it was a spoiler that he was not going to be in best of super juniors and that Dio would be because you have to remember, we've heard for almost a year now.
[SPEAKER_00]: that it looks like Yo would be in Super Junior's 2026 and I think on a personal level, you know, you and I have always been in favor of Yo, but for those that are maybe listening to this episode that are not super tuned into what Dr. Engie is doing right now and certainly those that normally get recommendations from me that have maybe wondered why I've gone quiet, it's because there's been nothing to recommend in February and March, it's been a very dark time for the company in ring and with the story lines that they're doing right now, it's not it's not awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll give the recommendation on air right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing worth watching from the last week is you, Monsi versus Yoshi Kikato.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just so.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not somebody that's been keeping up with Drangate and maybe, you know, you have just memories of either 2018 or 2021 or, you know, 2024, whatever year may be and you hear heo and super junior and you might naturally roll your eyes that and go like, oh my god, did we dodge a bullet because heo is on the Hokkaido tour poster and Dragon Dia is not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge disappointment for Drengeet fans because he was doing the best work of his career right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am going to rally really hard from he's 29 years old, 10th year of his career.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is somebody that absolutely should be on the voices of wrestling 30 under 30 this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's become an upper echelon Drengeet performer in a way that I don't think
[SPEAKER_00]: showcases top of the line deterioration, but rather, yo has just taken a step up and given that New Japan juniors roster right now, I think yo would heal it in a super junior's tournament.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have seen New Japan has fed into this idea over the last year that yo would be in that tournament this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when did your body building contest last year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't remember if it was a desk he produce show there were something else that happened New Japan related that really made it seem like they were leaning into you being Oh, it's a Taiji Chamori.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, it was a time to show that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, when there was like the endless like gauntlet match, he was a part of the dragon block.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he, no, he was part of the muscle block and everyone was going holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was more jack than everyone else in the promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not to head you off here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do kind of wonder if there is a bit of, oh, he owes not on this because we're poaching DIA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this changes the political ramifications in Japan quite a bit, because I'm trying to think, and this is where my
[SPEAKER_00]: that if New Japan takes DIA, that feels like a shot across the bow in a way that certainly shingo leaving Dragon Gate and going to New Japan did not feel like, and I'm trying to remember the last New Japan signing that would have been like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they got, they got so and so that's going to really hurt that promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, oh, the DDT stuff in 2013, 2014 when they got abushi and then when they were making waves onto Keshita and Endo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, possibly that killed that relationship basically up until United Japan reforming.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, that feels that feels like an app comparison to be because I'm just
[SPEAKER_00]: in which Dio would go to New Japan and then dragon gate would send them a junior for super juniors or send them a tag team for the super junior tournament or send them a wrestler for the G1.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not saying that and that feels like that would be in the post-COVID Japanese wrestling landscape where everybody wants to hold hands and work together with the exception of
[SPEAKER_00]: This feels like it would be the first major fracture and for dragon games who's already a company that that oftentimes isolates itself or, you know, got, I mean, unfortunately, they sometimes lean on Noah shoulders, very rarely do they lean on all Japan shoulders, this feels like this would be a pretty massive break in political alignment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it would throw United Japan into question because getting back to kind of magnum, he talks a lot about United Japan needs to be doing things about this inability for wrestlers to quit at least in his mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he brings up Shinshiro Takagi talks about on the 28th that he talked to him earlier this day about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shinshiro Tsukagi, notably as the representative director of United Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know who his VP and United Japan is or one of his VP's are?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rio Saito.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let me read this quote from Magnum and because you're a please do you're a little bit more dialed in on just and I think I think you might be the only person dialed in on the existence of the United Japan But specifically in the context of this this is something that you've mentioned me a few times and I haven't had a lot of time wrapping my head around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Magnum says This is after he mentioned meeting to coggy
[SPEAKER_00]: and sort of taking him to task the first time, Magnum says, by way of example, at Drangate now they won't allow the younger wrestlers to quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't get why they're so into it on sabotaging the work of the young people who do manage to get out of, who do manage to get out or painting people who quit a long time ago as villains.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always just think, honestly, how long are you going to keep this up for?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, do you even know why I just took it on the chin, swallowed your bullshit, and kept strumming for 18 years?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this is a bad analogy, and if so apologies.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're like this legendary high school university sports team with all of these amazing players in the past, but then 10 years go by, 20 years go by, and all of a sudden that school isn't even making the regional preliminaries, and you can't help but wonder just exactly what they're getting up to and training.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, there was a little trouble with the monkey and that one fellow that got caught with meth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone makes mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But people learn from their mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're young.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is going on after all this time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's people in their 40s and 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like there's something wrong with the trend of keeping these young wrestlers who see this as their choice and are doing their best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Down, I've raised the matter with Shenzhi.
[SPEAKER_00]: with San Shiro, the Chief Director of United Japan Wrestling, saying how much I wish he was out of a health test to provide emergency assistance for younger wrestlers who want to quit, but their promotions won't let them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important for there to be someone who can investigate matters and intervene.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's someone in charge of a promotion out there abusing people.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an open secret, but everyone just keeps going about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you know about something going on like that, but still keep going then you're basically saying that it's fine for that to go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: those in positions to prevent that sort of thing just look the other way and then he continues.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, just the other day, I was speaking to someone in Dragon Gate and told them, look mate, there's no point in whining about it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it is you've got to do, do it yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to quit, then just fucking quit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he says, and this is the Dragon Gate Ressler, yeah, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Magnum talking again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've had the same conversation however many times now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone's got to come out and say something at this point, but doing so must be terrifying because that's the world they inhabit and that's their livelihood.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first, Magnum, I feel like really slighted about your national champion going downhill for 20 years, kind of comments.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that was on necessarily targeted at America's sweetheart's The Miami Hurricanes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that, that itself means why?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a point that like Joe makes all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's, it's look, it's not one that I agree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think, working standard and dragging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it went from,
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me put this vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch current day new Japan, and a lot of the time, I go, how the fuck does anybody watch this promotion?
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys can't fucking work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate all of these new heavy weights.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate the storylines.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate their look.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate the vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watched current day new Japan, the same way that Joe Land's a watch is current day dragging, where I sit there, and I go, people are telling me this is good, and I fucking hate what I'm watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I obviously don't have that problem with dragging and I would put the work that Kame does, the work that Rita does, the work that Yamato has been doing, the work that shoot Skywalker has been doing, and by the way, since I mentioned this earlier, Skywalker and Cielo are not on the Hokkaido tour poster.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would not read into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're just getting that tour off, which is annoying fans in Hokkaido that Skywalker is not going to be there, but nevertheless,
[SPEAKER_01]: but also you have a cage match.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance that CLO is not wearing a mask by the time that we get done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but anyways, I don't personally agree with the analogy that Magnum is making.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is the sort of thing that makes me question Magnum's credibility in all of this is that he might have a valid point that there should be a help desk that helps wrestlers leave promotions and that yeah Japan's way of contracting and keeping wrestlers could be modernized or at the very least and this is my white American brain saying this but maybe adapted to the West or wrote a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think it's possible that perhaps there's some really nefarious things going on in the Draingate office that people should be investigating, and maybe the culture in that workplace is dire, it needs to be improved.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Magnum saying, hey, look at what I was doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at the town that I pumped out compared to these guys now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that helps him in any way at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I think at this point, I could say, well, what my real belief is on Magnum, if you haven't been able to pick up on it for the last 70 minutes, it really freaks of opportunism from him in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the fact that he basically spends a long time saying that all the deals of this promotion go back to 2007 because that's when I got fired by this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And everything is this one guy's fault ever since and everything that you dislike about modern dragon gate, it's this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes all sense the way the way dragon gate would react after what he's alleging.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's alleging that Toro Keto has done criminal things like straight up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does though, it's a bit of the modernization or at least the westernization, that however you kind of want to say like of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like culturally, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always been an open question about what United Japan is supposed to be doing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it seemed like a way that when Hase Hiroshi Hase was like the Minister of Sport and Culture in Japan coming out of COVID that it came about as like, hey, we would we don't want to give money directly to these wrestling promotions, Forman NGO, and we're going to and we'll give money the NGO and the NGO will handle it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And ever since that point,
[SPEAKER_01]: all you ever see outside of the United Japan shows that have not happened and I think now I'm not looking this up case, but it feels like an over a year there's nothing on the United Japan show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not looking up on two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll confirm, but I think we're coming up on two years.
[SPEAKER_01]: But case, the only time that like United Japan is in the news, you know, where you could find the United Japan a news.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dramatic DDT, Jamie O.
[SPEAKER_01]: D is the one person who always talks about, like, oh, this happened at United Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And part of that's because Shiro Takaki founder of DDT, VP of Cyberfight, is affiliated with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is an NGO that essentially does nothing at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is kind of, in a way, they should be doing things, absolutely, that there should be a way for anything for like a help desk where wrestlers, like not just for like leaving the motion, if there's just general malfeasance slash whistle blowing, that is what this organization should be doing, but it,
[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like Magnum has picked like something that he can kind of fix aid on as you should be the one that fixes this not me because I am a victim as much as anyone else on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been since June, 2024 that you know, did your parents only run two branded shows and that was all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was after the noto earthquake that they were doing those.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember that was the show that Monta like blew out his shoulder on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, that was a Noah show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was one of the United Japan.
[SPEAKER_00]: That it was a Noah show because it was right around the eye of complaining about this all the show at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was right around the time that Altima worked Noah and did the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the same Altima comeback that we see in every Altima dragon match, but it happened in Noah and so it got gift and people were like, oh, I'm an Altima dragon.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can still go.
[SPEAKER_00]: He does this every show.
[SPEAKER_00]: He does, that's the only thing he does every show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always make the joke that I a non-trained professional wrestler could
[SPEAKER_00]: bumping feed the ultimo dragon come back because I know it beat by beat it's not hard I see them do it 10,000 times and then Monta did like a 450 in blue out of shoulder That's what that happened, but this was uh, oh, they're actually yeah, there were no There were no dragon guys on this show They only worked the first one which was in Budacon and they had
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Yamato, yeah, I mean, Yamato worked at 10-man tag and Kai, it was Kai and Taiji versus Chris Brooks and Zexie were doing your, and then Shun's guy walk around the main of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they had quite a bit of representation on the first show, none of the second.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I've always been confused on what the idea of United Japan should be and I think a lot of people feel the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does, like, as a relates like Diana, as it relates to like the exits of people within Dragon Gate, I'm gonna read something that came out so the Yahoo thing essentially has been out for a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Yamato came back from WXW, was able to access the Japanese version of Yahoo Sports and chose violence.
[SPEAKER_01]: that there have been people affiliated and around Dragon Gate and former wrestlers who have posted about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a rather long thread.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am using the Twitter translation here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is probably not right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't use this for really anything to be quite honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just for this, I'm going to go through this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this comes from SBK, Kento.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are all sorts of circumstances in situations that make it hard to say this, but the power of a company's organization is strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something I realized once I stepped outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking back now, I feel gratitude for being nurtured there, and yet also think if I'd only been able to be more honest about the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But back then, I had this intense desire to go overseas and fight harder, and with Superstars right there close by, I can imagine myself,
[SPEAKER_01]: I could picture myself imagining my future and then go into I wonder if I'd be driving the bus or just endlessly touring the country by bus for a player of a career like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the pay?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the age?
[SPEAKER_01]: Does someone have to be to reach this level?
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought about all sorts of things and it might have been the moment my life made my first major decision and before I knew it, I was in Mexico and by September this year, before years for me, time really flies.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've managed to join Lucha Libre AAA, one of the two major organizations in Mexico, but me and Frigua are such idiots that life is tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not satisfied.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually doing part-time work here saying that he's working as long as, as well as making his AAA dates, surviving tendatiously like a cockroach.
[SPEAKER_01]: March is the month the most matches since coming to Mexico 12 matches, super hot, and yet I got injured the other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I were in Japan, I'd have to set out no question.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm pushing through and playing any way, necessity demands it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've even started getting call for TD matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally,
[SPEAKER_01]: My final interview from American visas coming up at last.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me say that again, American visa, reuniting in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: That'd be pretty hilarious, right, pointing emoji, getting an American visa seriously tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the interesting part about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because companies that Japanese wrestlers are affiliated with are pretty much all the same that I've constantly been interfered with within this process.
[SPEAKER_01]: There has been even an incident that I tried a different route paid.
[SPEAKER_01]: 600,000 yen, which would be American dollars, Jews that would be $4,500, to future war as an immediate area, along with another person got scammed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always been able way to break into America with future war.
[SPEAKER_01]: people who can take action or people who can't, if I've had to say, which one I like, I prefer people who can take action, I wouldn't be on that side by myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So explain the 6,000, you end thing to be again, because I don't understand what's going on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Kento is saying that essentially he's been like, everyone has been sort of blocking the visas, WWE kind of is the way to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That he even wants to try to go through an intermediary that was charging him 600,000 yen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, that's about $4,500 to do this, and he got built out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: And that came out just right after he saw the Yahoo News article and he says after this everything in life is failing and learning even takes a detour in the process along the ways there should be all kinds of experiences and encounters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he posts a photo from what I think is the Japanese restaurant that he works at also.
[SPEAKER_00]: The kinto stuff is so odd for me because again we were so close to that situation and I always tell people when kinto comes up
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a majority of the listing audience knows the bare bones details about what happened with Kenton food you are and why they're not in Dringy, but there's other stuff, not a criminal sort of way, but there's other stuff, other infractions that were made that led to their dismissal from Dringy, that have never really been reported and I, I...
[SPEAKER_00]: I still don't feel comfortable giving all those details based on what we heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would always love another source to back me up all that I've just never I've never been able to get full exact 100% confirmation in a way that makes me feel comfortable sharing it, but it's not as simple as they got caught smoking weed they were gone from drinking it and this is you know something that happened where.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you got to remember, Kento was back in Japan in March of 2023.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see, left for excursion in 2022.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was back in Japan in March of 2023.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was at those champion gate shows in Osaka, fully expecting to, you know, do one last shot in Mexico and then come back to Dregate and then we heard the week of dinner alive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is the first week of May.
[SPEAKER_00]: that Kento was gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think it was maybe the around the Hokkaido tour or that first week of June, it might have been a month after we had first heard that he was gone, that it was made official that he and Fuchuara were gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand, you know, in the same way that Magnum is being seen as an opportunity this year, and she was trying to babyface himself towards the Drangate office.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like Kento is trying to maybe face himself towards the general public, but my sympathy only goes so far there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, look,
[SPEAKER_00]: I have said since the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if I were in the New Japan office and I was able to, and if I had the power to hire SP, Kentow, and Tacuma, Fujwar, I would do that the same goes for the All-Japan Office, the same goes for the DDT office.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have said since the very beginning, that politically it would be almost impossible given what happened in Mexico for Kentow and Tacuma to make their way into Noah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That certainly between, not only the AAA connection to WWE, the WWE connection to Noah, but because of some other things that have happened in Noah,
[SPEAKER_00]: If they were going to work Japan, that has somehow in 2026, at the start of the year gone from the least likely option to the most likely option.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it is fucked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: If Drangate is telling other companies that they can't hire Kento and Fujuara, but it is also true that Kento and Fujuara at least, over what we've known over the last three years, are guys that I would deem.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, young and irresponsible, young and immature guys that might not be worth the headache because, well, I mean, I mean, come to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, come to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, can't do to me when I watch him wrestle.
[SPEAKER_00]: He still possesses another worldly charisma that I am just completely sucked into.
[SPEAKER_00]: Food to war, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Food to war was in triangle for six months.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never, he never scored a pinfall in Draingate, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy was a dragon for six months, four years ago, and he has since worked part-time in Mexico, his body, and I, I don't know how else to analyze this, his body has only gotten a weirder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm stunned they made
[SPEAKER_00]: AAA, Foxland, America TV, once, I don't know if there was any plans to have them back on TV, but if I'm Mark Callaway, and I see Kentow and DeKumo walking through that hallway, I probably don't want them on my TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they even flipped a lot of damage on themselves, just based on the things that we know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for that reason, even if, again, like Magnum, there might be valid points that Kentow is making there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a really hard time
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's it he just seems like to be a kind of like the one person to have actually said anything Uh, you know who I did not check to see if he said anything as we're recording great production here Mike you're doing awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do what Kaito has said or if anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't I don't know I haven't seen anything from Kaito.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's like guy that will will stick his nose in this every once While I haven't seen anything from T Hawk and I haven't seen anything from a shoot up
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going through his social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he has not said anything about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, his situation kind of seems like in a way is kind of indicative of how things have kind of gone with these younger wrestlers leaving, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this appears for three months and without anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the whole situation with the fake Kaito Ashita, that's not worth getting into here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He like goes away and then reappears and glate and then all fire kind of happens and it feels like at that moment really is when the the cold war is really starting between the two groups with a sheet of jumps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the weird thing with Ashita, and this is maybe this is something that credits Magnum's talking point and Kento's talking point is, you know, there was a, there was a time there where Ashita was working a lot of all Japan, and then Dragon Gates started their business relationship with all Japan, and you saw Ashita get removed from those cards.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been a few years now since he's been in that promotion, but that is not specific to Dragon Gates.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is just, those are the politics that play here, and the same way that you would
[SPEAKER_00]: A-W and C-M-L-L, a new Japan and W-E and AAA, I mean, there's just, there's things that happen in the business world that you might not like, but that's the way business is done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, uh-huh, it's Rangate saying, hey, if we're going to work with you, and you're going to, you know, we're going to share in a rookie boy among other talents, you can't have Kai to achieve it on those shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, that's not evil because it's she to me, the choice to leave Rangate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like that's a situation that also kind of colors this like the fact that all of these kind of departure kind of things happened and is she does kind of feels indicative of the way that they kind of operated with it, but.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, what were there other quotes and other things you wanted to touch on with this guys I feel like we've kind of hit on most things going through my news kind of coverage or at least my format myself and I feel like though those are most of the things again I would like to say that this the the interesting thing kind of about this is that it's only really on those news coverage is a not the show itself at least
[SPEAKER_01]: from what I've been able to see and I mean Magnum's channels out there and if folks are able to pull those quotes from Magnum's channel explicitly, then I think that's colors this also in a different way too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the most interesting fallout of all of this is it's a little bit like when punk went on art of wrestling in 2014 and you know, Cabana was was right to get the interview,
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, as we've seen over the last decade, that interview had such negative ramifications on Kolkabana's life in a way that he never could have expected as they were recording that podcast, and maybe I'm out to launch for even thinking that Schema at any point in time had any shot of retiring in a Drengeet ring, but
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Keto will be dramatically affected by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Ocomor will be dramatically affected by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Yamato or S.B.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kentill will be dramatically affected by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the guy, the gun is going to turn towards, is going to be Schema.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he is the guy that will suffer if there is any fallout from this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we talk about like the fall out and where things are going, Schema's almost completely sold out his 29th anniversary show on May 11th.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is in this comeback, he's having magnum out, be like his manager, like a manager for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he at least at this point is not disengaging, in case, I had something that did not put on my document for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's already been announced, uh, it has, uh, also appearing for the talk show other than Shima Magam Tokio is Masado Yoshino.
[SPEAKER_01]: And case, I, uh, I will be stunned if, if you're able to kind of pull this out, but we're gonna play a little bit of game here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, first and foremost, uh, where is this
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in Nagoya, and take a guess when is this talk show?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would now guess given that information that it will take place the last week of April.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is on April 26th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that is for those that don't know that is the same day as Dragon Gates Golden Coliseum, which is what used to be dead or alive, but in a new building has been rebranded.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah, and I'm looking at the time,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy, it finishes at, it's starting at 2 p.m. That one and golden call CM bell time is listed at, it is listed at five at three p.m.
[SPEAKER_01]: So interesting, oh, no, they're going at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going head to head, I apologize.
[SPEAKER_01]: So boy, that, I think that kind of color things when I discovered that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, at least there's anything good that comes from Yoshino getting involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you and I have talked about this at length for the last five years now, because it was 2021 when Yoshino retired, and which is already five years, which is insane to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we heard for years and years and years from
[SPEAKER_00]: multiple people with varying relationships to dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: The succession plan was always that Masada Yoshino wouldn't have it the role that Rio Saito currently inhabits and we have never been able to hear what happened with Yoshino and why that didn't happen the way that we all thought it was going to, which has been a really interesting thing in my mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would imagine if Magnum
[SPEAKER_00]: goes to the places that he went in this talk show that Yoshino, I would hope would address some of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, maybe everybody was wrong, but we heard from years from multiple sources that this was going to be Yoshino's company once he retired and that obviously did not turn out to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is something that I would, I would like to have them discuss at the end of April.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm actually right now looking at something that an interview I did around the split in 2018 saying explicitly that Yoshino was a surprise to be a part of it and that there was at that time a five-year plan to transfer things over to a management committee and
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we'll see how that kind of things goes from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, worth noting, just kind of looking back over my notes and some of these notes are again from 2018.
[SPEAKER_01]: This split was Sheema was weird at the time for when it was announced because there was no dragon gate people at the press conference.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no keto shaking hands with Sheema.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no kind of like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the strong hearts guys kind of doing their own press conference at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting, I guess for me, just for the kind of figure that Keto has always kind of cut with us, and I would have to say that I have not had in person kind of interactions with Keto like this, but it's still like the accusations and a lot of ways to me, it's not that
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, on top of this, on top of this and on top of the fact that he was saying this when Ocomora, I mean, we reported on Ocomora being a physically abusive owner at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that's something that I think it's a funny situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first podcast we did was Jay during the pandemic, so probably coming up right on six years, it was March of 2020, if not early April of 2020, then that was when Jay.
[SPEAKER_00]: talked at length about some of the things that Ocomor did in some of his weird behavior and it was stuff that again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Ocomor, Ocomor ran on the surface of very successful business, but I don't think he was ever looked at as any guy as a guy with any sort of great reputation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is something that followed him quite literally to his grave.
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
[SPEAKER_00]: we talked last year at length about the weirdness of him passing away and who said what and who didn't say anything and there was no ten bell saloon and you know magnum allegious here that members of the dragon gate office and members of the roster went to the okomora dojo basically under a cloak of darkness and secrecy to pay the respects but they know that publicly they can't be affiliated with him in any way and it's just it's a very it's a very odd thing and I think
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Dragon Gate is a promotion that, you know, I talk about this all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't think people realize
[SPEAKER_00]: how long Dragon Gate has existed now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say that in a complimentary sense when I talk about the careers of Susumu and of Dragon Kid and of Masaki Mochizuki, these guys that I think are all-time great wrestlers that have legitimately been great for almost 30 years now, which is insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a wrestler being great from 1969 to 1999.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think,
[SPEAKER_00]: As time goes on, wounds get deeper, people get more sinister, people get more paranoid, and I think we're dealing with very grown-up problems and drag-it right now that they haven't really had to face a ton over their history.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I would say, like, speaking in the 30 year thing as well, I mean, you in a lot of ways have had the same people in and around in the room, running outside the room, running the office, running the day-to-day,
[SPEAKER_01]: By and large, a lot of the people that are there, like the thing has been, it's come to you basically working as a co-op, but they have been there for those 30 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And things get calcified.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's a lot of historical comparisons of not only just businesses, but organizations that, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: just because the passage of time and plot it and people may come in and come out, but the organizational culture gets calcified and things that maybe weren't necessarily like the norm but because you do it for so damn long and you've done it for 30 years, it's kind of become its own sort of thing and that's not always a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sometimes in a lot of cases when things calcify like this, it's more often greatly negative.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if anything in the theater is like a positive, that can kind of come out of this situation is, and if you're someone like thinking about the future of Japanese by wrestling, and the future of Dragon Gate is from this dark moment, from a company that somehow, over the last 30 years, case, I don't know how, or why Dragon Gate has always been and
[SPEAKER_01]: put together in torn apart company at times, but one can I don't think that's an accident.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, you know, as well as I do, I mean, these were teenagers who essentially got to run the circus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Teenagers, we got to run the circus, but also just inherently as somebody that, you know, speaks to wrestlers on an independent level, on a nationally televised level, wrestlers that wrestle professionally in Japan for other companies that aren't
[SPEAKER_00]: Dringy wrestlers have a completely different mentality in terms of the way that, no, I'm not talking about in-ring.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a culture that has instilled in a Dringy wrestler that is so for myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I mean, look, it makes this job harder because nobody wants to talk about anything ever, because they adhere to
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say at this point a stricter k-fave than anything that CMLL does, you have it's the thing with the American tours and they adhere to this in a very strict way.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got your baby face bus and you've got your heel bus and that is true throughout Japan.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a different culture than we see anywhere else in wrestling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'd say that like this mindset is like such a strong thing that I may in like, let's be completely frank.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like his like, we have been throughout this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not an easy episode for the two of us to do because we know how the company is going to react and people end in with them and around the company are going to react as something is like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's just we have an obligation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not bothered by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a job to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but but I mean, but that's a reality that is exclusive to Dragon Gate versus most other promotions that people who cover a single promotion on a podcast like not being not disparaging not being rude, but like Joel and Damon don't well, wouldn't be at risk of like losing so we're seeing things like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, the New Japan guys won't shut up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not getting New Japan's.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care about that promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like the point remains is that like this is such a a cloistered Organization and it develops such a cloistered mindset that you get to see there are positive examples of this I mean you look at someone like pack who is coming through the system and I would say out of anyone who's not a native Japanese wrestler
[SPEAKER_01]: With a subject maybe Monte and Jason, he is the one who embodies like kind of the mindset in the way to do business.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's no, there's no one who has an unkind word to say about pack and a lot of that was forged because of the mentality and drag it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think we're seeing now how that mindset works negatively.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guys, I think unless you have any other notes or anything else you want to touch on, I think that's going to do it for this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll talk more about in-ring happenings next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got Kucha versus Kai set for the Dreamgate belt on the April core control, which I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: New launch thoughts on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will always say I don't think it's fair when people see Kai's name and roll their eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a much better restaurant than I think he's proved himself too much more than that, but God damned, do I not want to see Kai in a dream-gate match in April of 1226?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll talk about that more next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you could follow us on social media at Open Voice Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could follow a case that underscored in your case on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at Fuji Haya on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a quick thing before you go before we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could step inside the voices of wrestling discord.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... the open-the-voice gay channel whenever we do historical shows including those days which uh... we had a new episode out last week of that is posted there as well as the dragon gate channel on the voices of wrestling discord but that's going to do it for us this week on open-the-voice gate will be back with the next time talking about dragon gate and ring actually so take care of everyone thanks for listening bye bye