[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back film fans, the Cinema Hounds Oscars 2026 prep series continues leading up to this weekend's Oscars ceremony.
[SPEAKER_04]: And today we are looking at the final tech categories, so we will be specifically talking about cinematography, VFX, film editing and sound.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's nominated and a bit about what we think should be nominated.
[SPEAKER_04]: You will find the other so-called tech categories, the production design categories, including costume and makeup and hair, and a separate previously released episode, which includes a dive into two of this year's most exciting nominees, which you won't find in any other episode, and we, Lisa and I, looked at why the category that nominated them is casting a wider net, rather than just nominating the best picture nominees over and over.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do recommend starting the entire series with my and David's nominee reactions and best picture nominees preview if you haven't done so yet you can also catch up on a special episodes on the shorts categories an international film deep dive documentary deep dive and the year 2025 and animation looking at especially the nominees of course not to mention the
[SPEAKER_04]: After this, there's just two more left leading up to the ceremony this weekend.
[SPEAKER_04]: The final two episodes will look at writing and directing and acting and casting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now for this episode, like for most episodes, we'll talk about the movie premises and production, but will avoid any film spoilers.
[SPEAKER_04]: And okay, I think that's enough pre-embo.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me introduce my special guest for this category, Dakota Arsenal.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am here with Dakota Arsenal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are the creator host and producer and editor of Contra Zoom.
[SPEAKER_04]: The it's a podcast and a blog, which people can find linked in our show notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do occasionally write reviews for you there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'll link one of those.
[SPEAKER_04]: And also I was a guest on your recent one sentimental begonia after another podcast episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, welcome Dakota, glad to have you here on the Lohrhound system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a real pleasure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad we can trade off episodes like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always fun when you can do that with another podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad we're able to make this work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and me too, and I'm especially excited to have you here for these more technical awards because you also work in the industry.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you mind sharing a bit about your background, as it pertains to the film industry?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Currently, I work as a assistant director in film.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have done other things in the past and I will continue to do different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, right now I'm working on a CBS show called Watson, starring Morris Chestnut as a assistant director.
[SPEAKER_01]: My technical title is Traini Assistant Director.
[SPEAKER_01]: Depending on where you film, they have different names for different jobs.
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically it means I'm on the entry level of the AD route.
[SPEAKER_01]: I work directly with cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do a lot of queuing with them, so if they need to enter the room halfway through the scene, I'm usually there.
[SPEAKER_01]: listening to the dialogue and have to let the actors know when they're going, fun stuff like that, sometimes I get a set background actors as well, let me do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in the past, I also do lighting, so I'm still trying to figure out what my path in the industry is, but I do work as a lamp operator from time to time, and that's a time to fun too, because it's a very different kind of creative energy that you bring to the
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I always noticed you have particular insights into cinematography, which is going to be the first category we're talking about today, so yeah, I'm excited to have you here sharing your insights, but you're also of course a death racer that's how we know each other how is your death race going.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it could definitely be going better, work has been crazy, so my movie watching time has been exclusively on weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as of right now, I am at 29 out of 50 films and that means I have zero of the 15 shortes of this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping to run this recording to maybe how and out of category today.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is the good thing about the shorts as long as you can find access to them.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can like knock out an entire category and a day easy peasy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's get into these four categories today.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be talking about again, cinematography, visual effects, film editing, and sound, and starting with the first two categories, obviously, a bit bigger.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's start with cinematography, where the five nominees are Frankenstein, Marty Supreme, one battle after another, sinners and train dreams.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your favorite in this category?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think pretty easily my favorite is train dreams, you know, this is such a stunning film to look at.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it was shot on digital, but it has that classic film-grain look to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, maybe I'm a bit of a sucker for the the post-edit film-grain edition that they add to films, but I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is an absolutely beautiful film.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just set it up quickly.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is directed by Clint Bentley.
[SPEAKER_04]: The cinematographer is Al Delpho, Philoso, a Brazilian, so you'll notice Brazil going crazy in the comments whenever he wins.
[SPEAKER_04]: The plot is a logger leaves a lot leads a life of quiet grace as he experiences love and loss during an era of monumental change in early 20th century America and this The movie got four nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've talked about it in the best picture preview.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about it now in cinematography.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll talk about it again in original song and adapted screenplay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the first nomination for Veloso, he worked on the last Clint Bentley film Jockey, which I haven't seen, I don't know if you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I didn't, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and he's working on an upcoming, uh, Shyamalan film remain.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am an emni Shyamalan defender.
[SPEAKER_04]: This has, in part to do with me coming from Philadelphia, perhaps, but I just, like, his particular type of twisty horror is absolutely my cup of tea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very often on with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen some of his worst movies, so I think a lot of us maybe just influenced by public opinion on me, where I'm like, yeah, I've no interest in watching Avatar The Last End or Ben right or anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: That one's bad.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no one is bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: or the lady in the water or something like that, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I will defend the lady in the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen it, so I can't really say what we were in another.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, so Volo, so working on train dreams, I mean, this film had such a tight production schedule, just a 29 days schedule, so
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's why, as you said, you know, it was shot digitally rather than on film, but it's absolutely remarkable that he used 99% natural light.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that, do you think that's something that's easier with digital?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it absolutely is.
[SPEAKER_01]: The film sensors on digital cameras are in the same these days, which is why we often get what we consider darkly lit films.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you think of, I don't, I'm okay if I think of a director off the top I had right now, but too often, you know, the client is, I can't see what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think game of thrown to the best example of people complaining about things not being lit properly.
[SPEAKER_01]: is because the sensor is so strong that when you're filming it, you can see what's going on and you don't need a ton of light whereas when you're working with film, you have to use more light to overcompensate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why older films, shot on film, have a very different look because you're overlighting to the point where you can see way more.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now that they're able to scale back and use less and less and less and less and less.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, we've sort of reverted to the opposite side of the spectrum, or we're like, okay guys, can we overlay this a little bit, please?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, or although it's like shooting day for night, and then you put that dark filter over it, that's what kills me with the complaints about the house of the dragon, for example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, day for night stuff is I haven't had a ton of experience doing it usually it's like if we're inside a building or whatever then we're just like blasting super bright lights inside And that's you know if we're not looking outside you can't really tell that much, but sometimes if you're using filters and things like that it definitely is much more noticeable Especially filming outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never done that outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just done one more inside and you know you're blasting 20 k lights inside
[SPEAKER_01]: right son.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just know from my amateur still photography like night shooting nightlighting is always the the worst.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so with the natural light here, you know, they had to make that a part of the story, the something like a fire or candles to create real light.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it almost creates this sort of German impressionistic but in color lighting scenario where there's just
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, it, you feel the, the darkness, the wilderness around him because he has to hover close to this bright light that's, you know, his source of comfort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to show where the, you know, they say 99% natural light.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not too sure what they would have used the one percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing maybe in scenes that take place at night or using fire, because shooting with fire, you know, it's it's an uncontrollable element.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're using.
[SPEAKER_01]: fire bars and things like that, which create great light, but you know, if you're facing the actors and you're not facing the fire, you can usually, you can, the light will have settings, now the digital lights will have settings that mimic the look of fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's probably what was used to safely recreate the look of fire, like when we're looking directly at like Joel Edgers and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they used spherical lenses in part, because this,
[SPEAKER_04]: movie has the most expansive one of the things that makes a cinematography so remarkable is the expansive views of you know the American wilderness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have any insight into that side of thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Camera is a department that's still sort of baffles me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like watching more things like that from what I understand, you know, that just means that they're using wider angle lenses, captures much as possible as opposed to something with a more narrow focal length, which you'll get much more personal, smaller films where you're not trying to show off, you know, the vast beauty of Oregon that train dreams is trying to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he also uses someone on usual aspect ratio because he's a three 20 aspect ratio because it mimicked the old photographs he was looking out for inspiration.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to say aspect ratio is one of those things that I often don't notice it unless it changes mid-scene or people point him out.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's I find it so interesting because it does have an effect like
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll talk about sinners next, but you know, as are in that surreal montage when it suddenly changes and it's like it's pulling you into the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you definitely notice when, you know, films that have iMac sequences, when that change happened, you literally your eyes go wide or as I happen to like, whoa, I agree with you a lot of the time I don't notice aspect ratio, although I am a bit of a sucker for a good, wonky aspect ratio, especially if you know, something more squared, you know, one of my favorite films is a go story and that's very much a square.
[SPEAKER_01]: aspect rich, so I love sort of when they play around with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did notice that this had a bit of a different aspect ratio that it was a bit different than our usual, you know, what they call the academy ratio or different things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they talk about that and oftentimes like, oh, that's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like, you know, as a viewer, you're watching at home, you're watching the theater.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little hard to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, unless it's changing mid-scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so train dreams, I think, to use your terminology, do you want to explain your terminology use in your podcast for how likely something is to win, you have four terms?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, my system is, I sort of categorize films into four chances of how likely they are to win and that's front runner and that's usually the top one to films in a five
[SPEAKER_01]: Dark Horse, which is, you know, kind of in the two to three range and a five category, raise a long shot, which is in sort of the three or four range, and then just happy to be there is usually four or five.
[SPEAKER_01]: I say these numbers being flexible because, you know, it could very much differ.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
[SPEAKER_01]: were uh we're not gonna talk about song today but like you think of that category where it's like it's very much golden kpop demon hunters that's the front runner nothing else is really close that's the number one in that category and then you got I love you I'm a truth there
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is a fantastic song, that's clearly the number two, nothing else as close to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the dark horse to me, and then after that you've got the long shots and just happy to be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frankly, for me, in that category, the final three songs are just happy to be there, because there is no path to victory for any of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the Oscars are not even letting them perform, so yeah, so using your technology, I would call this, I suppose, a dark horse.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one, three awards so far, including the Critics Choice Award of the Film Independent Spirit Award.
[SPEAKER_04]: Several others, it was, you know, runners up in several places, it's missed six of its nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then one we'll talk about next, I think, is the front runner, but do you think Dark Horse for this one as well?
[SPEAKER_01]: It sort of feels like it's kind of creeping up to being co-front runner status to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about the other film, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It sort of feels that like, if sinners doesn't have as good of a night at the Oscars, as maybe some people might be predicting, I think this is easily a category that someone else can come in and win.
[SPEAKER_01]: In train dreams is the big advantage of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's sort of feels like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say like the true lovers of cinematography are going to vote for train dreams over centers, but it sort of feels like you're going to have a large contingent of people being like, no, this is legitimately the best cinematography of the year, regardless of anything else in this category, what are thoughts in this movie, things like that, and sort of feels like there's going to be another section of voters that are like, we love sinners so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the same in photography is beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're also going to vote for
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's let's shift over to talking about sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is my favorite in this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, the film directed by Ryan Coogler, uh, dance with the devil trying to leave the travel lives behind twin brothers return to their hometown to start again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Only to discover that an even greater evil is waiting to welcome them back.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've probably heard me rattle off that summary before because this has gotten a record 16 nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've already talked about it in best picture preview in production design costumes and make up and hair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or we're talking about it today in all four categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we will...
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about it again in song and score and in director and original screenplay, actor, supporting actress, supporting actor, and casting.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what we're talking about it right now is for cinematography where the cinematographer is autumn, derailed, archipel, an American cinematographer.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is her first nomination, although she did also work on Black Panther Wakanda Forever, Loki,
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the aspect ratio change, particularly, and that's one special scene called, they call this a real montage.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I, this, for me, the reason why it's my favorite, that is, by the way, dictated by the fact that they're using two different cameras, the IMAX camera and an ultra panovision camera.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, what makes this my favorite, I think, is just sort of the seamlessness of the cinematography with the film overall.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's something that I really admire about Ryan Kugler films is just how everyone works together in a way that
[SPEAKER_04]: we'll talk about it again in VFX a bit more, but in a way that sometimes it makes it almost invisible, but there's still such impressive things like for me this film first sucked me in with the car sequence and they had these long shots throughout like the long shot at the shops with Legion Lee, the long shot in the car sequence obviously the surreal montage.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mentioned at Train Dreams where I'm a sucker for movies that are shot up film, or look like the shot on film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I can't play favorites for Train Dreams.
[SPEAKER_01]: It not talk about how much I love the cinematography and centers as well, because this is shot on film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is stunning to look at.
[SPEAKER_01]: The grain of it is really beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you get this really great aspect when the sun is out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't quite look blown out, but the background, you know, it definitely is far more brighter than you normally see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a very unique thing that we don't really get with a lot of films.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's just, you know, like you're talking about, some very impressive sequences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's simple as just holding the camera steady in the passenger seat as a car, car while they're driving along.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we get this long beautiful moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then sometimes it's these crazy sequences.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think especially of like when all the vampires are dancing and the giants are calling it polls.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just see how many people it is and how dark it is out there and all you guys these like they're all holding torches and things like that and just how stunning sequences like that are.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's hard not to just wax poetically about how beautiful this film is.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and this is another one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I suppose this is sort of a trend, but you know, we talked about the natural lighting archetype here also going for stylized naturalism as how she puts it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, things like sometimes cinematography isn't about doing the fancier shot, but about the decisions that you make, like you say, just planting a camera
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you know, those one shots, the way they fake, also like with that surreal montage, I cannot imagine the overall coordination that went into that one scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: That must have been crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but we would be remiss if we didn't mention that Archipel is the first woman of color nominated in this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: She is a Filipino on her mother side and African American Creole on her father's side.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is kind of a category that's been late to the table overall in moving beyond just white men.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um,
[SPEAKER_04]: In 2017, as recently as that, Bradford Young was the first Black cinematographer to be nominated for Unis Work for a Rival, and the next year, 2018, was when the first woman Rachel Morrison was nominated or mudblood.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this was the last non-acting category to nominate a woman.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, why do you think this category in particular is voice club so much?
[SPEAKER_01]: I unfortunately, that's just what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people that end up rising to the ranks of to become a cinematographer, you usually come from one of three avenues.
[SPEAKER_01]: You either come from the camera angle, you come from the lighting angle, or coming from the grip side of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, the best cinematographers come from lighting because they understand it the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas, you know, camera, you're very much like insular.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, your technology inside it out, but you don't really know how to light a scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just adding a bit of context there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfortunately just a bit of a boy's club and I don't really know why.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was working recently with a female director on the show I'm on and she came up through camera and she's terrific director and we were talking about that a little bit and she'd asked me if I'd have worked with a female cinematographer yet and I had to say no I have not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, I don't even know any in Vancouver where I'm based that that are which is a real shame.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to high school with a girl who has now become a cinematographer working mostly in Canadian film and it's super impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both how young she is to get to that position to be doing movies that are released, you know, theatrically, not just TV work, which is a very different, you know, animal.
[SPEAKER_01]: considering the boys club you have to break through is just impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just you know there's only one same photographer on set and so jobs are limited and people want who have experienced and so you keep hiring the same people over and over again and it's not really the place where you try new things and hire new people and so unfortunately women have been left behind and you know it seems like that is slowly changing but unfortunately the very keyword here is
[SPEAKER_01]: Autumn won't be the last thankfully, but you know this is gonna be the category where it might be another three or five years where someone different other than hope maybe gets an nomination which is real shame.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, um, I wonder it though if this narrative helps her a bit, um, I think that the obviously as I've said that the film warrants it on its own rights, but I do want you know the voters do love a narrative
[SPEAKER_04]: It has one so far, it is the front runner.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one 18 awards so far, but honored two more times.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's missed nine nominations, and there's three awards pending, including, of course, the Oscars and the American Society of Cinematographers.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I still feel personally confident putting this in front runner status.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think, what status would you give one battle after another
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the trick you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, that sort of, I thought originally was a dark horse, but it sort of seems to be falling as train dreams is rising.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's sort of, you know, dropping down a bit more to, I guess, on the lower end of, of, of, of dark horse because I do believe that both sinners and train dreams are the front runners in this fell in this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I would at least give I suppose one battle dark horse status, um, just to set it up.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the Paul Thomas Anderson film about, uh, when their evil Nemesis resurvices after 16 years, a band of ex-revolutionaries reunite to rescue the daughter of one of their own.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I forgot to mention that there is a deep dive into sinners in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are three deep dives into one battle after another.
[SPEAKER_04]: David was very activated by this film and talked to different groups of people about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It received 13 nominations, so the second most this year, so we talked about it in best picture preview and production design, and we're talking about it today in three of the categories, cinematography editing and sound, and we'll talk about it again in score, director, adapted screenplay, actor supporting actress, supporting actor times
[SPEAKER_04]: And the cinematographer is Michael Ballman, an American first nomination, but known for Paul Thomas Anderson collaborations like the Phantom Thread and like Rich Pizza, also has worked with, for example, Ryan Murphy and Max Winkler on television.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do you think people love the cinematography for one battle after another and why do you think that it's getting less attention than the other two now?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting because, you know, this is if you want to call it the co-front runner for best picture along with sinners.
[SPEAKER_01]: The top of the cinematography, oddly, has been very quiet, especially since, you know, Paul Thomas Anderson is very much known for having beautifully photographed films.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I look at the other things that Bowman has worked with, with BTA, Phantom Thread, in my opinion, is one of the most beautifully shot movies of the
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that they they've they photographed that you know there's so many moments I just sort of live rent free in my head I think of like the new year's ball scene things like that and and I think it's just because this is you know a contemporary film it isn't as flashy it's not trying to be flashy with its gorgeous cinematography but it's still there
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of the talk is about the incredible car chase sequence with you and I talked about as well on my podcast and it's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so unique and it's different and it's out there and I know they sort of talked about like
[SPEAKER_01]: They locked out with the location, the location made that shot, not an assunt, but they were trying to do for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the type of lens that they would have been using on the camera to give this sort of nauseating up and down effect as they were going and driving up and down the hills.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, a sequence I thought was even better was the sort of the underground rail road, I don't know how I was saying, the ringing of the alarm bells when we get a bit of a chase sequence sort of going on and you get all these skateboarders, you know, silently emerging out of nowhere and you know, they're shooting flares off and
[SPEAKER_01]: people are running all around and jumping over rooftops and all this sort of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was far more of an exciting, beautifully shot sequence for me, where it was just I was so enthralled at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you're not as high on this movie as I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the cinematography is fantastic that I think that's my favorite part of the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, that was gonna say, but I hope you also appreciate the cinematography.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I love also, I'm a sucker for using an updated 70s style motif well, and this particularly does that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've realized with between this and bagonia that I'm a sucker for vestivation, which apparently 75 to 80 percent of this was shot in 35 millimeter vestivation.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's um, you know, we've talked about French connection for subscribers have access to that episode um, that was apparently a big inspiration here and you can see that for sure, but definitely a much more modern version there out, you know, it's not just copying it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's it's literally using it as inspiration.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% you definitely feel with him, Freedkins, you know, influenced all over this film.
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely feels like something that he would have made, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And and apparently they used also like you see the the saturation is amped up versus the 70 stuff and that's apparently inspired by one car.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can just see that this is filmed by people with a great love of film, but also a creative mind because you know, you're just talking about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, how do they film.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, they give credit to the location for that hill sequence, the car chase, but they had to make a lot of creative and technical decisions to pull that off so well so that that's people are talking about that sequence in particular to the extent that they are.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, I don't know if you've seen this come across here, your social speed or not, but I saw something about where it's like, if the sequence is interesting, if you're, if the action on the screen is interesting enough, people don't care about continuity.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're, they're showing clips from the final scene of the movie basically when when Leo and his daughter are reunited.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the cloud coverage just constantly changes from shot to shot from coverage of between Leo and Jason Finity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not equal and like, that's a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not supposed to do that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: That completely breaks the rules of filmmaking in terms of continuity.
[SPEAKER_01]: The editor must have been pulling their hair out, trying to figure out what these don't look the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is,
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that matters and that's not a problem because if you have such an engaging moment like I didn't walk out being like oh man the lighting was so uneven in that final scene no it felt natural it felt like the clouds were changing normally that's something when you're outside you are doing your best to contain and make sure that it's always looking the same so that means
[SPEAKER_01]: If small clouds are passing by, you're holding, you're not filming until the clouds clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're big clouds that you can't wait for, you are over-competating with more light or using things like balloons to bounce light to mimic natural light things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're just like to hell with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we've got a dynamic scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: The moment is about the emotions going on between these two being reunited.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about
[SPEAKER_01]: what does the lighting look like in this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it shows, because frankly, I'm sure most people would never even notice if they weren't pointing it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's what I was also praising sinners for, so I'm glad you do point it out here, because it's difficult with awards, but what I am most impressed by are the things that you don't notice unless someone points it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: The things that they make look effortless.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, this one surprisingly has not gotten the cinematography attention that you would expect.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just because it's a particularly competitive year.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one forward, it's been honored four times.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's had 15 other nominations, or sorry, 16 other nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't win because... Oh, wait, no, sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: A 15 because it did win the BAFTAs for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so that is a major precursor that gives it a shot of hope.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to say this year, the precursors are kind of chaos and a lot of categories, and I kind of love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it's still up for a few more awards.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, including American Society of Cinema Tographers, I think that'll be interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a March 8th, one week before the Oscars will be interesting to see who wins there and regards to predicting this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: but I think it seems in third place, in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_04]: While my opinion on that has certainly changed, stay tuned for the outro update at the end for more about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But for now, this is a great place to take a quick break before we dive into the last three contenders in the cinematography category.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think between Marty Supreme and Frankenstein which do you think is in fourth place?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, definitely Marty Supreme.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so Marty Supreme, Josh Saffty film about Marty Mauser, a young man with a ping pong world domination dream, no one respects who goes to Helen back and pursuit of greatness.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one got nine nominations this year, so we talked about in the best picture preview and production design and costume today, cinematography and editing, also director, original screenplay actor casting.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, it's not in makeup, which some people thought it should be, which just because quite a palatro thought that Timothy Shalame had real zits.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, the horror.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a great story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's recommending them products for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, no, I mean, I have the complexion of, of a nymph.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: You ever seen a baby's bottom?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's this face.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, but I love listeners know that I love them make-up category in particular this year, so I'm not sad about that, is there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Before cinematography, the cinematographer is Darius Kanji, an Iranian French cinematographer.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is his third nomination after Evita Bardo, false chronicles of a handful of truths.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was the last one, but he was also the cinematographer for Uncut gems, which is like in my mind, the unofficial Marty Supreme prequel.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was also cinematographer for this year as Mickey 17 and Eddington, which I love Mickey 17.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's underrated Eddington.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't love with the cinematography.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think about the cinematography in Marty Supreme?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's terrific, you know, this is the third film in the category that shot on film.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love more films to be shot on film because they always look so much better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Darius Congee in my mind is a legend.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't really talk about his name in the same vein as some of the greats, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I first noticed his work in seven the David Fincher film, I recently went and saw it I think it was last year when it was re-release with a 4K restoration and my god is that movie just gorgeous to look at.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also far more darker than I remembered because I had been a while I was like oh man this movie is depressing but it's stunning to look at and the work that
[SPEAKER_01]: equally beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite sequences is the final match in the British Open where you've got, you know, it takes place in the stadium and the ping pong table is nice and brightly laying.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could see all the action very clearly and then you just see rows and rows and rows of people and they're all backlit but it's very, very dimlet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can see the heads of the people moving and their heads watching as the ping pong ball is going back and forth but like
[SPEAKER_01]: all the action, all your attention is being focused directly in the middle of the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just so beautiful to look at.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is another one that was shot on 35mm film.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do you think this format is having such a moment right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why, I'm not going to complain about it like it's one of those things I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are the filmmakers that they're looking up to is the 70s and what you're doing in the 70s and there's so many great filmmakers sort of like the the post New Hollywood guys that were we're big at the time and I think all these filmmakers are just sort of in love with the look and feel of their films and I like this is what I want
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know what it is if there's anything else, but that's just sort of what feels to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it really feels like a renaissance of 70s like films.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It does, yeah, this 35 millimeter, the way it captures or doesn't capture detail, does give it that vintage tinge, which they can, as I was talking about with one battle update with, you know, the sort of modern higher resolution and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's this nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I suppose hybrid of of these arrows and I do like that this is another one it used animorphic lenses.
[SPEAKER_04]: This, um, these cinematography competitors this year are just like eating up the sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're not, you know, they're creating a lot of these wide, expansive shots, which I am myself actually kind of a sucker for.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's hard not to fall in love with that style of filmmaking, the sequences of like Marty running through the streets of New York City.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea how big their sets were or if it was built or if they were using real locations.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't look into that, but like
[SPEAKER_01]: you feel like you were transported back to like when the godfather was being made that that felt like he was running on the same streets that they filmed on back then or or dirt's that general era of of New York filmmaking and I love that and it just looks so cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this one is apparently H24's most expensive film today with a budget of 60 to 70 million.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it surpasses civil war from 2024.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we've talked about it already in the production design.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can see it in the way that it's captured.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see it at the cast.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm very much like a fan, you know, I wish the Academy did a better job at recognizing, you know, subtle films for it's makeup and hair styling and costume and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously this does have a nomination for costume, but like if it got a nomination for hair makeup, I wouldn't be opposed, like I think it does a very job with, you know, giving people period accurate looks and feels to them and pimples, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, in pimples, that's something I feel like the academy doesn't do well, where unless you're a Victorian era film, you're not typically getting a costume nomination, unless you're doing the most over-the-top latex work for her and make up, you're not getting a nomination there, that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like this year, because we didn't get those types of films, we're getting some more unique nominations in those categories, but I would love it
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, that's why we talked about this also in the costume episode, but I don't mind, for instance, when Emmys separates into, alright, let's do period, let's do sci-fi, let's do contemporary as three different categories, I think, you know, it does make a certain kind of sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it does, I mean, but it's more contemporary than the one we'll talk about next Frankenstein.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll say this one just to wrap it up, yeah, it's, uh, it hasn't really won anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, which I think is not a knock against the cinematography as much as just like it's such a competitive year.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've already talked about the three others.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and let's bring the last contender in this category on to the table, Frankenstein, the Gamal d'Otoro version, uh, about a doctor Frankenstein, a brilliant pedigotistical scientist who brings a creature to life in a monstrous experiment that ultimately leads to the undoing of both the creator and his tragic creation, always quibble with the last part of that, because I don't, well anyway, no spoilers, even though it's Frankenstein.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a film deep dive in the episode, no, it's I did an entire series so you can also listen to me talk about the 30s episodes with Isha from every sci-fi film ever podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one received nine nominations so we talked about in best picture preview.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to dominate the production design costumes and makeup and hair categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: Talking about it today for cinematography and sound and we'll talk about it again for score, adapted screenplay and supporting actor.
[SPEAKER_04]: The cinematographer for this one is Dan Lousden, a Danish cinematographer.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is his third nomination after the shape of water and nightmare alley.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yes, del Toro, collaborator, extraordinary, but also he's worked on, for instance, John Wick, and this year's The Gorge.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts on the Frankenstein cinematography?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a huge Garamal Dautoro fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love his movies, and they're often, you know, some of the most beautifully shot movies of the year they come out.
[SPEAKER_01]: He loves using practical sets, trying to minimize the amount of CGI were possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just sort of felt like I don't know what the hell he was doing with this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I know this was a huge passion project for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I recently talked about this film on my podcast with Jeff Bulmer from Classic Movies Live.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had a lot of great insight into how accurate, how book accurate this film is because that's something that they're touting a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my big company to be noted.
[SPEAKER_01]: is it just feels so fake, everything about this movie feels so fake and artificial, where I know they were building real sets and when I go back and look at stills, I can appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I watched the film and I saw it in a theater, I saw it in a film that was a lot at home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just so disappointed in every way about the look and feel of this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in particular, the worst moment of the movie where for me was the lab explosion.
[SPEAKER_01]: When that happened, I know we're going to talk about the special effects a little bit, but I went from being like, okay, yeah, I think I like this movie to know this movie does not work for me at all, and I never got back on board again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, we won't, yeah, we won't talk about the special effects for this movie, so feel free to throw that into this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, yeah, it's not only good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, so I mean, as I said, I have several episodes deep diving into the entire Frankenstein like the history back from the books, um, and yeah, so as in terms of accuracy, I talked about my feelings about that a lot there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that it is quite accurate in,
[SPEAKER_04]: spirits, but with, you know, it's the way it's been adapted to Del Toro's life.
[SPEAKER_04]: It has, you know, you can see that reflected in it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I did, yeah, a lot of conversation about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll say, I am happy with it in that regard.
[SPEAKER_04]: I understand what you mean about the
[SPEAKER_04]: fakeness of it because I was actually surprised that some things were not in the volume and actually were outdoors and I think it has to do with the VFX used in like the sky for example.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I am extremely passionate about like the production design and and especially the costumes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really want the costumes to win.
[SPEAKER_04]: I talked about that a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: As far as cinematography,
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think, for me, do you find a lot of people often confuse cinematography and production design?
[SPEAKER_04]: Um...
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I do, it's tough to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not that you do, but other people do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, it's so tough because, you know, same photography includes everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It includes the way the costumes look on screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's so often as easy to sort of default.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't like the look of the sets.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the look of the film.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's sometimes as hard to separate, I think, for some people, but I don't think, I don't think a personally notice people talking to me like that about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess I'm more passionate about the production's design side of things than this cinematography, it does, they used a lot of wide shots and large formats so you can see some behind the scenes, things that just really take in that production design rather well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I really appreciate that aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: they were using an even narrower, like 24 millimeter lens, and a lot of wide angle shots.
[SPEAKER_04]: So just really creating exaggerating and a sort of colorfully gothic way, which is what Delta was going for, so I appreciate those aspects of it, and also the way they did lighting, though,
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, they talk about it in the same way that train dreams does, you know, where they say, oh, we favor a single natural source or, you know, like a window or fire something lantern something like that, but there's just something about the way it's captured that makes it feel less like train dreams every shot feels so authentic and indeed this one feels manufactured.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% and I think the choice of camera movements aid to that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many of these like big sweeping movements that just felt fake in sort of disorienting at times, which is a real frustration for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think it's like the camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: going over the ice when, for the ship stuff and it's just like flying, zipping through the yams.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what are we doing here?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is supposed to be this very intimate personal story and it feels like it's shot like a Marvel movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, yeah, for instance, they also did, for the underwater shots, they did a drive for wet illusion, which to be fair, a black Panther Wakanda forever did actually shoot underwater filler underwater scenes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But here it just combines, it adds to this feeling of artificiality, which to be honest, I don't really mind for this movie because it is a sort of overblown fairy tale.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, it's I do agree that it is the least interesting out of this category because it is a quite competitive year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's almost like you couldn't decide if you wanted it to be this dreamlike world or this very intimate personal world or this over the top bombastic world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're getting all of that combined together and it just feels muddled.
[SPEAKER_04]: Poor Knollos, today's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why not all of it?
[SPEAKER_04]: So this one is not, you know, it's one three awards so far.
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't win 16 others.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's up again for the same awards as the other films probably not going to win.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think we agree, sinners and train dreams are the two.
[SPEAKER_04]: They only two with the, it seems feels like a real shot at this award.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what it seems like.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although with one battle winning the BAFTA, does that change things?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is a good question.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we should be paying more attention to that again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Although BAFTA always zags where they others zig.
[SPEAKER_04]: So who knows?
[SPEAKER_04]: I am, I did predict that me that the BAFTA would give more to one battle after another, and then maybe there would be
[SPEAKER_04]: We can vote in open just a few days after.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: This feels like this could be a category that could whoever's the big winner of the night could easily scoop this up as an additional one.
[SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't seem like it has like that hard and fast front or like so many other categories though.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so just to shout out, this is a category that gets a short list.
[SPEAKER_04]: There were 16 in total.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other ones that were on it were Ballet of a Small Player.
[SPEAKER_04]: But Gonia, dime I love F1, Hamlet, New Velvet, Sentimental Value, Surat, Songs on Blue, Sound of Falling, and Wicked for Good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, out of those, like, I would have loved to have seen Sound of Falling on here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe instead of Frankenstein.
[SPEAKER_04]: But go in here also use that v-stivision like I said, but sound of falling just had some really remarkable cinematography.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... for me it would have been ballad of a small player uh... i like that film i did too you know people are too hard on it uh... i watch it and and i do my own my own personal oska rankings of of everything that i've seen based on the categories and i think i have a small player as my number one or number two shot film of the year it is it is stunningly beautiful film i love the over-the-top saturation that uh... that burger used in that film
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it was kind of like a fun story.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to say it's the best written film of the year, but I enjoyed it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just have to give an extra shout out to Resurrection, which technically is, and I guess, eligible for this year, because it was released after the International Window in China, but anyway, no other choice, which was eligible for this year, and it has, in my opinion, the best cinematography of the year, and the long walk I thought had exceptional cinematography.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you of any others you want to shout out for their cinematography this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, I'll have to talk about my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think of what they were.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually trying to pull it my list as we speak here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I really like materialists.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, you know, talking about modern films and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought they did a lot of really interesting things and showing that film, the story that film, I know a lot of people weren't crazy about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked it more than past lives, which I know is a bit of sacralidge, but I really like the same talk, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't agree on liking it more than past lives, but but yeah, you can see on the cinematography, which you're saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this is a good place to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to talk about the other biggest category of this episode, which is visual effects, see you in a moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: And welcome back, and let's dive into visual effects.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just to note for this category, the award goes to individuals, but I will be calling out the primary VFX company responsible or they work for.
[SPEAKER_04]: The five nominees are Avatar Fire and Ash.
[SPEAKER_04]: F1 Jurassic World Rebirth, the Lost Bus, and sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's start with a juggernaut.
[SPEAKER_04]: Avatar Fire and Ash, the James Cameron film this is about in the wake of the devastating war against the RDA and the loss of their eldest son Jake Sully and a Terry face a new threat on Pandora to Ash people.
[SPEAKER_04]: A violent and power hungry Navi tribe led by the ruthless for
[SPEAKER_04]: Jake's family must fight for this arrival in the future of Pandora in a conflict that pushes them to their emotional and physical limits to nominations this year, which is down quite a bit from previous versions.
[SPEAKER_04]: So just costume and VFX, we talked about costume already.
[SPEAKER_04]: Lisa, my guest for that episode, she defended its right to be included in the category, but I'm still, I'm, I'm personally down on this film versus bass at past incarnations would, which you're feeling about the avatar franchise.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say this, I am in a vowed avatar hater.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Iron Ash was the best of the series so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, yeah, I really cannot give a damn about these Avatar movies, like the fact that I'm still watching in three movies and just kills me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the new characters were interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here because of the VFX.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought the VFX was very strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know the franchise is two for two for winning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Will they be three for three?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I feel like we've settled into the world nicely and now for I'm not annoyed by the tropes and rehashing of other white savior narratives that we've now experienced many other times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dances with wolves, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought that the characters, yeah, I just thought that the fire people were were done very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought they're very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, specifically the the performance from Una Chaplin as Vareng.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought she was excellent
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, verang the new character is definitely the highlight of this movie for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: The low light of this movie for me is the writing, which is unfortunately the thing I care about the most.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was so, I maybe it's also because it's three and a half hours long, and I chose to see it in 40X, which was maybe, that was great for the last movie when you're like floating, and it smells like Ambergris, Ambergris.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but for this one, it was just like very jerky and I was getting a headache and it smelled like burnt chocolate all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: only imagine.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was by the end of the movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, just end.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, you can't fault the VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is, all right, I never know how to pronounce that's company.
[SPEAKER_04]: Waiter, Veda, Veda.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you pronounce Veda?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Veda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, with the two long lines over the E in the A.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, this is of course most famously the company set up for the loader.
[SPEAKER_04]: The rings movies, they are like the premier VFX company in the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about some other big juggernauts, but this is the, I think that this is become known as having the best in the business.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, you know, I think to the average movie go or if they were to be able to name one VFX company, this is the one that they'll be able to name because this is the VFX company, I can name.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll talk about like, ILM next isn't a big question.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so those who are nominated, the actual nominated people are Joe lettery, Richard, bottomen, Eric, same-dom, and Daniel Barrett, and they're all Americans except for bottomen.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they are all multi-nomones, especially the lead of this, the lettery.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's his 12th nomination, and he's won five times for the avatars, Lord of the Rings.
[SPEAKER_04]: So definitely, I think you might be walking home with a sixth this time, but yeah, the other is Benjamin.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is his third nomination, third for Seendon, fifth for Barrett.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a very well decorated team.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the fact that's because they're all basically Veda people, you know, you look at the movies that they work on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they are always on the cutting edge.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is such an interesting category because for us, we look at, I'm like, oh, what one looks the coolest?
[SPEAKER_01]: But often, along with the makeup and hair styling, we're not there for the bake-offs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't actually hear about what
[SPEAKER_01]: how they are changing the industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's so much more how this award is dictated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it often coincides with, which one is the prettiest to look at?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, it will be things like, oh, the texture of water.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what we, you know, are pushing forward for this film.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why it won't, you know, win the best visual effects, or I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to go different examples, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's essentially how these award are given out for specifically those two categories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Invaders is the most innovative studio on the planet right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I think they are the most technologically advanced to you on the planet, but can I say, here's my hottest take in the VFX category, is I would give it to a film that's not even nominated that people have been hating on Tron Eris.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that this Avatar Fire and Ash has the best
[SPEAKER_04]: looking in terms of the fact you're watching this 3D film and it really feels like these are real people, you know, with skin you could touch things like that, that the amount of detail is incredible, but for me, Tron Aries did some of the most
[SPEAKER_04]: original things that I've never seen anywhere else before with like the way they combined the futuristic slick aesthetic of the second film with the retro techno aspect of the original film and made it all look you know 2025 and the way they did certain effects like like they they would
[SPEAKER_04]: going through the real world and leaving behind this trail of red.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just I absolutely loved the technical aspects of Toronto areas and that excites me more than this one did where it was absolutely gorgeous but it was like they literally went back to the same setting as the prior movie and for some reason I noticed more this time that the backgrounds were flatter.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think this one's going to win and I don't be graduate that win avatar of course I mean you know and people talk about the motion capture and obviously I think what people underestimate is the amount of postwork that's done to make the motion capture look really human.
[SPEAKER_04]: or Navi as a case, maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I'm more excited by other films this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I totally get that sentiment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think a lot of people were going into Oscar seasons specifically, you know, worried about wicked for good and blanking because it was like, we've already been here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was part one, part two, it's the same movie, just split and half sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess Oscar voters felt the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just met certain nominations.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's sort of how it feels with, with Avatar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where everyone's in a while will sort of get these franchises
[SPEAKER_01]: would they get repeat nominations?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think of Black Panther Wakanda forever, you know, winning caution design for both films.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, okay, I like I I defended that though because it I feel like she was genuinely innovative for just like in one because of the demands that like the physical and design demands of the new telecom group
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, I think that's very was unique enough, but that sort of similar feeling where it's like we've been here before We're seeing these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see different winners.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see different nominees, and I think you know with the avatar Franchise specifically People feel that fatigue Like it's it's it's boring to be like avatars great visual effects.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know avatars great visual effects
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is there love for anyone else, but like you can't you can't talk about the best visual effects of the year and be like Yeah, but we're gonna remove avatar from that conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, why are you removing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because we're bored about okay, I got it like it's still one of the best
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and of course it's been winning basically all of the precursors.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's I think it's only missed like two to nomination so far.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's almost a foregone conclusion.
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's let's jump to the other, well, the film we've already set up before, the rest are all new for this category, sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so the this was done by I was talks about ILM, that's industrial light and magic.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this, yeah, actually, this was a complete, you know, I've talked about with in the last category, Couglur, the way he has people collaborate across all departments of a film, but he also has here for the VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a massive collaboration between all these different departments of studios.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you have ILM, but you also have all these smaller studios.
[SPEAKER_04]: Storm Studios rising some pictures base effects baroboom studios light vfx and outpost vfx with Warner Brothers overseeing this all, but the nominated team themselves are Michael Ralla, Espin Nordal, Guido, Walter, and Donny Dean, and this is the first nomination for all of them, and it's an international team from America, Norway, German Australian, and another American.
[SPEAKER_04]: What did you think about sinners on the VFX side of things?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the biggest part of the VFX for this is the fact that we have two Michael B. Jordan's occupying the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so easy to forget about it, because you know, when you get introduced to them, you go, okay, it's Michael B. Jordan twice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then by the end of the film, you're like, wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: the same person, how is that work?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so confused.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll say the show I'm currently working on does feature one actor playing twins.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do have a bit of insight of sort of the complications of having to work around that.
[SPEAKER_01]: On days that we have to do twin shots as we call it, they take the longest out of everything that we have to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: often what that entails is we sort of shoot the scene as normally and then the actor that's playing the twin we'll sort of what we call we'll lock off the cameras which means that if it's on a dolly or something like that we put the brakes on we don't move it we use a repeatable head which is a programmable
[SPEAKER_01]: head on the camera that will sort of repeat the same motion over and over again because it's computer based so the time he is always perfect you'll do that you'll change you'll come back the cameras are still locked they do it again he's just now the other side of the twin now the thing with
[SPEAKER_01]: a person playing two people is you now have to overlap the images, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We often will remove props, so a lot of these scenes take place in a sort of a conference room where they're having discussions.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's usually a mug in front of him or a pen and paper, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They often get removed for visual effects purposes because that complicates things.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this movie, the hard-a-shot that Ryan Coogler said that he had to do was near the beginning of the film, where one of the brothers passes a cigarette to the other brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds so simple and so anonymous, but that is so complicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: We purposely don't have them interact that way on set because of how complicated that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the most complicated we've done is one has thrown
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, this is definitely as as a viewer in the audience, we talked about this a bit in our Center's Deep dive Anthony and I about the question of was it distracting to have Michael be Jordan play two people in this movie and that was the shot that we pointed to where I don't think the average person is distracted by it because I think it is so seamless and
[SPEAKER_04]: We should add, there's the extra complication that the camera's rotating during the shot, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they have to match up all the lighting and it's just a crazy thing they did by, they put him in a halo rig with just, you can find pictures of it online where there's just like, lens is pointed at him all around him to capture the movements so they can really match these things up.
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously there's a double involved, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: But,
[SPEAKER_04]: just watching that as a viewer who has some knowledge of VFX when I saw that shot in the beginning, it was like, oh, they're showing off.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just found myself looking, looking a lot to see how they did that with the whole twin thing and being impressed by the thing they did.
[SPEAKER_04]: But during my first watch that was the most distracting thing to me is I kept looking for these interactions.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was very well done.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the other thing, I think, like a lot of the VFX for this movie blend into the background.
[SPEAKER_04]: For instance, maybe people don't realize that the train station scene, most of that, is actually VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: The train is entirely digital's done by ILM.
[SPEAKER_04]: When I was talking about the driving shot to the cinematography, the cotton fields in the background are VFX, done by storm studios, and with the cars driving through done by base VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they did all this collaboration because they were looking for...
[SPEAKER_04]: They were looking for groups of VFX artists outside the typical tax break hubs so that they thought like, oh, well, if there's strikes or things like that, that these are people who can be more consistent for fighters.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm just to be a very impressed at the way that Ryan Kougler in general gets people to work together.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other big VFX, of course, are like Remix.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's say there's a big finale at the end where things go up in flames, and I actually we're going to talk about, I suppose, the lost bus next, but I like the fire effects in the surreal montage and that final moment that I was just talking about better in this personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm on the same page for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The fire does look much more natural and realistic compared to the lost bus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I think it almost has to do with they're not trying to make it as realistic as the lost bus is trying to do, which is when you're adding an element of
[SPEAKER_01]: create a license to the look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you can come up with a better product than just trying to make it as realistic as possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I do agree, I think the fire in sinners looks better than it does in the lost bus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course you can't talk about the effects without talking about the impressive song sequence where the montage
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've got all these different worlds colliding together and things like that and the roof suddenly goes invisible and we pull back and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfair, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just everyone sort of dancing and all that sort of thing that's happening there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a very impressive film with VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I would say, and maybe obviously I have a sinner's bias.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm very open about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this is Loki, my personal favorite in this category, just because it is so seamless and it just makes it just services making the world feel very real rather than like, look, look at the VFX over here, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: So for me, I just really appreciate that about this film.
[SPEAKER_04]: The awards bodies appreciate it less than that regard, it's definitely hasn't gotten many wins only to, obviously, as we said, Avatar is dominating this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's switch over to the Lost Bus, which is a VFX only nom.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Paul Greengrass film about inspired by a true story of survival, a determined father risks everything to rescue a dedicated teacher and her students from a raging wildfire.
[SPEAKER_04]: This was the done by below X is the company.
[SPEAKER_04]: They also did like the new mission impossible in ballerina and Lee Cronin's the monkey for example, but I'll say that L'Hound's will recognize their work from shows like the Gilded Age, the acolyte will of time season two and three.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now season three has one of the
[SPEAKER_04]: best VFX episodes ever put to television.
[SPEAKER_04]: So lots of kudos for that in the last of us these of one I'll say.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the actual nominees here are Charlie Noble.
[SPEAKER_04]: David's already Russell Bowen and Brandon K. McLaughlin.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are mostly first nominations, but it is the second nomination for Noble.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is a mostly British team Bowen's British Canadian and McLaughlin
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think of the the last Spuss's movie and what do you think of the VFX?
[SPEAKER_01]: I went in not wanting to really watch this film and I left it in it was fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was better which which means it was better than I expected it to be because I expected to be absolute crap and it was fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of like a solid two and a half three star movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very dad movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know, um, it's a very Paul Greengrass with, you know, the shaky camera, the light and all that sort of stuff, which I kept forgetting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was directed by him before I watched it, and like, as soon as I put on, I was like, all right, this Paul Greengrass.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might feel nauseous afterwards with all the shit with all the shaky cam, but it was fine I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really buy Matthew McConaughey as a bus driver A down on his luck bus driver, which I Don't know is a different conversation completely, but in terms of the VFX it was
[SPEAKER_01]: it was very fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think it stood out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it did a it looked good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, you know, there's some terrific shot of what I imagined to be real fire enhanced by CGI that looked great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes I think it faltered when we were not looking outside when we were looking at sort of reflections of fire or like
[SPEAKER_01]: When the camera is directly on Maconai driving or the people and the bus, the kids in the bus, things like that, I thought that's maybe where it faltered a little bit, where I didn't feel the heat in intensity, so much as some of the great location shots.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of where I thought about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like this is a completely forgettable movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, I'm going to forget that this was nominated in this category the day after the Oscars happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for me, you were kind of to this film than I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just lost me with the dialogue and the writing and the opening.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it was just hard for me to stay locked in throughout.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is one of my lowest rated films of the year overall.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the VFX didn't honestly do much for me either, although I do appreciate, you know, it's a mix of practical and CGI.
[SPEAKER_04]: They did a lot of research.
[SPEAKER_04]: I understand that I just couldn't lock into this film and the VFX weren't helping in that regard either.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm afraid I don't have that much to say about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is to be honest the one that I would replace with Tron Aries.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm trying to end on a positive note, but I didn't like this film.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's completely fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like every year when we're death racing, there's, you know, this is one of the categories where it features the most one-offs and you're just like, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: What sort of Hollywood slopp am I going to have to sit through this year?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got two of them in this category.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of them for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the movies that are nominated.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's confirmed a movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: I sat through it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I like the cast.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll say that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like the cast.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wish they had been given a better script.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really like the script.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so are you saying it's the other Hollywood Slop movie Jurassic World Freebird?
[SPEAKER_04]: How?
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, to be honest, it could have been F1, but we'll get to F1 next.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so let's talk about Jurassic World rebirth.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a Garth Edwards film.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm on record as saying I love his visual aspect, his directing, not when he's involved in the writing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, this is about the visual side.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is about the V effects.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Jurassic World rebirth is Jurassic Park number, or seven.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, five years after the events of Jurassic World Dominion, covert operations expert Zora Bennet is contracted to lead a skilled team on a top-secret mission to secure genetic material from the world's three most massive dinosaurs.
[SPEAKER_04]: When Zora's operation intersects with a civilian facility whose boating expedition was capsized, they all find themselves stranded on an island where they come face to face with a sinister shocking discovery that's been hidden from the world
[SPEAKER_04]: And to be honest, I picked up more background exposition from just reading that than I did from some of the film.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is the only nomination here.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a quasi-surprise, which it shouldn't be because it is like impressive dinosaurs.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one is basically all industrial light and magic ILM we've referred to before.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is by the way a division of Lucasfilm.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the nominees themselves are David Vickory, Stephen Oplin, Shermaine Chan, and Neil Corbolt.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is mostly British team except for a Chan as American.
[SPEAKER_04]: First nominations for Applin and Chan, second nomination for Team Leader Vickory after Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part two.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's like, I was trying to count, I think it's like the eighth nomination for Corbolt.
[SPEAKER_04]: who was he got just a fun stat in 2023.
[SPEAKER_04]: He got a rare trifecta of best visual effects nominations, three nominations in a single year for his work on the creator, another Garth Edworth movie, Napoleon, and Mission Impossible dead reckoning part one.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that is the year that Godzilla minus one rightfully in my opinion one.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what are your thoughts on the film, on the
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess let's let's start here with the Garth Edwards of it all like can one man make such a beautifully stunning movies on the other hand make the dumbest movies possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the creator easily one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen from a visual effects perspective with one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never walked out of a movie, that was damn, that was impressive to watch, but I hated every second.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: We did a deep dive into the creator, I'll link that in the show notes, but yeah, that's basically the summary.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, gosh, is this gorgeous, and we love the world building, but can we get someone else to write this script?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, there's a, there's a handful of directors where I just like, please let someone else write your script.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please, please comment on it, look at you too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the second episode in the road that James Cameron is called out for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, please, get someone who can write some freaking dialogue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, with Jurassic movies, you know, we're here for the dinosaurs, that's where I will say this about this film.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cared far more about the humans in this story than I did about the dinosaurs, which is probably a first anyone will ever say about a Jurassic movie, you know, other than the original,
[SPEAKER_01]: is about as flawless of a popcorn blockbuster type movie that you can get.
[SPEAKER_01]: How is it possible that a movie that came out in 1992 has better dinosaur visual effects than a movie that came out in 2025?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't mind a lot of
[SPEAKER_01]: the human stuff, the stories, it was fine, mostly forgettable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Scarjo, so I'm pretty forgiving on her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was the best part, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought these dinosaurs looked pretty terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sequence went there in the grass and they see the large dinosaurs and they go up and they're touching the legs and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was some of the worst hijive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen that a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the hell was going on with these derpy-looking dinosaurs?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what they were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made no sense to me the look of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have all the money in the world and this is what you guys come up with.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So to quotes, uh, victory, the team lead, uh, in an interview for the Art of VFX, our deadlines were so tight on this project.
[SPEAKER_04]: We had 30% less prep time, uh, less time in prep, shoot, and post when compared to previous films I've worked on.
[SPEAKER_01]: and there it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is always the downfall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do studios insist on making these big budget spectacles?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the one thing they want to save money on is the spectacle part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to see these over the top grandiose dinosaurs that we should be equally in all
[SPEAKER_04]: And the thing is, like, Garth Edwards at the director, as we've said, he's great on the visual side.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he has more insight into VFX than most director.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he takes a more hands-on approach with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we just talked about the creator, but also, he had the first movie where he really broke out was it called Monsters?
[SPEAKER_04]: The one about the Kyju's in Mexico, basically?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what's up with the Godzilla movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he has shown that he can lead incredible VFX on a quite low budget.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think here, like, it was just, it felt like there were a bunch of ideas that they were throwing at the wall.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, so the big showpiece for this is meant to be this D Rex, a mutated T Rex.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so they, you know, they had it have a misshapen head, it can barely lift bloated limbs and extra set of long, gorilla-like arms and, you know, they're like, it was extremely fun to bring the life.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I'm sure you had a great time, you know, brainstorming this animal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, it was neither visually nor story-wise tied into the rest of the movie well.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that was my biggest problem with these.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not the VFX,
[SPEAKER_04]: affect themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: They just felt pasted into the environments.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I never believe they existed in the same space as the actors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the movie starts off feeling like a horror movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I quite enjoyed that opening sequence.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was really hoping that they would consider continue that feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it didn't go there at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I have to say that for me, the most impressive stuff was the water simulation, I know that that can be difficult to do and I actually kind of forgot how much of the water was simulated while they were.
[SPEAKER_04]: in those water scenes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, for me, that was the greatest success, but not surprisingly, this really only has like one other nomination for the Visual Effects Society Award, which it obviously didn't win.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, it was kind of a surprise that it turned up here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every year there's always one or two films in this category that like you're trying to predict the nominations and you have to like pick some Hollywood slump and this is the one that I was not surprised really I did a Oscar predictions episode with it with all over for the nominations came out and I was like, no, the revert is going to get nominated Just because it feels incredibly on brand for the Academy of like we can't have all good nominations.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to get some that suck
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm mad about this alleged superhero fatigue knocking out some movies I feel like we're more deserving, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is what it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, question, did you expect F1 to show up in this category?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also really like this film, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so, okay, to set it up, this is Joseph Kosinski film.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's about racing legend, Sunny Hayes, Brad Pitt.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's coaxed out of retirement to lead a struggling formula one team and mentor, a young hot shot driver, stems in Idris, while chasing one more chance at glory.
[SPEAKER_04]: This received four nominations this year, including a surprise, best picture nomination, although I did predict that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then also we'll talk about it in three categories today, visual effects.
[SPEAKER_04]: editing and sound and it did expect to do well on the on the the technical side.
[SPEAKER_04]: The this is a frame store.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have so frame store is the biggest VFX studio in Europe based in London and the actual nominees are Ryan to hope.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nicholas Chivalier, Robert Harrington, and Keith Dawson to combination of American French, New Zealand, Canadian, and British team.
[SPEAKER_04]: First nominations for most except Tud hope the lead this is his second nomination after Top Gun Maverick, which was directed by the same director.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he also, by the ways of co-founder of the visual effects studio atomic fiction.
[SPEAKER_04]: So why do you think F1 deserves to be in this category?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I'll start with, you know, talk on Maverick, and the biggest disservice I feel like they did while marketing that movie was, you know, talking about how much the cast specifically Tom Cruise did their own flying and how it's all real, all real flying, all real flying, fantastic, uh, none of those jets were real.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they, you know, it's sort of like Christopher Nolan being like, and we don't use any special effects in my movie or any visual effects in my movies, and it's like, Chris, you're lying, lying, like don't do this, like talk about how seamless you do these visual effects, how much, how great you can integrate it and how naturalistic you can do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and talk about a look fantastic, the jets, not real, not as real.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not really flying through canyons, I don't even think the canyons were real.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is sort of similar where they hyped up how they filmed on real race tracks using real racers, all that sort of stuff, and I think
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know what, a lot of those cars aren't real as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really wish that they were more honest with the marketing and like, look how much we are able to integrate the real racing with our CGI.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell the difference viewer?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how good it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so that's why I really appreciate because it does look pretty seamless.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some great, some great shots in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know a lot of the VFX went to, um, changing cars that, you know, obviously have their own sponsors and color and all of the sort of stuff too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is approved for the film to look like the different drivers, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a, that's a big portion of where the VFX went.
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously there's some crazy shots, you know, they, they did have cameras on the cars themselves, small, very small cameras, but not all of that they were able to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so some of the racing bits were fully CGI.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they did a really good job with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm in, you know, things like they couldn't shoot on at Monsa when they wanted to, so they would, uh, yeah, they would sell been, you know, the different background.
[SPEAKER_04]: And to be honest, I did not notice these things while watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do feel like, yeah, this is a very seamless, visual effects that just make it, yeah, as I was praising others for just making it a feel real, making you feel,
[SPEAKER_04]: Submerced in that environment and I'll say like this it's not my favorite movie It's not my least favorite movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very much a dad movie as you said about the loss Plus, but I think this is a much better dad movie than that one So I'm perfectly happy to see it here.
[SPEAKER_04]: It hasn't taken any wins yet But again, that's because avatar has been dominating everything
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, do we both think Avatar definitely is going to win and which would you choose of these five to wait?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it definitely feels like a foregone conclusion that's Avatar Fire and Ash.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's probably one of the easiest categories to predict.
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of my favorites of this category, it's kind of a toss up between sinners and F1.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably I'll lean to sinners as being better, but I do quite appreciate what they're doing in F1.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, I'll say the this category does have a short list of 10.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the rest of the short list was the electric state Frankenstein Superman, Tron Aries, and Wicked for Good, and I would put most of those up there above a couple that are on this list, but most especially everybody talked about Tron Aries.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll talk about the electric state looked phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I fully expected that movie to get nominated here because that is the type of film that we often get here where it's like bottom of the barrel, you know, 2% on rotten tomatoes, but you know what's a great visual effects.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, all right, as I said, the production design awards is where Frank and Stine is dominating and where I think it deserves to dominate.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm happy with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, just, you know, a Superman obviously is a big fan of that Predator Badlands.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that maybe it had a real shot here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thunderbolts would have been kind of an unexpected bit inspired picture with things like, you know, how they did that void stuff with the black out people.
[SPEAKER_04]: I might have thought fantastic for first steps would have been here in a different year with especially the first Galactus intro, even though I didn't love everything about the VFX in that film.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, are there any others you expected to see in this category?
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew through Thunderbolts, I was one that I was kind of rooting for in terms of, you know, there's no superhero movies this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does shocking, there's always a superhero movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the one I was hoping for, but Warfare was one, you know, when they would do the Shoah Force and the Jetplane would fly overhead and there'd be a cloud of smoke or a cloud of dust would fill up the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought they did a great job with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of creature designs, I really like Mickey 17.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would pick then Jurassic World Rebirth.
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mickey 17 was fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, looked phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's take a quick break here and we come back we're going to talk about the other two categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: Be right back.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's talk about film editing and sounds starting with film editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: This, before we get into the film editing itself, we have to talk about the historic association with best picture winners.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is 36 years out of the 97 that the Oscars has been in existence, which doesn't include this here by the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: The film that won achievement in film editing also won best picture.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's no, I mean, I suppose they say you make the film in the editing room, so that makes sense to a certain degree, but it just almost feels like this crazy correlation.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's the longest streak of this happening was seven years in a row from 1956 with around the world in 80 days to 1962 with Lawrence of Arabia.
[SPEAKER_04]: But for 33 consecutive years between 1981 and 2013, every best picture winner had also been nominated in film editing, and two-thirds also won for film editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this, yeah, we've seen in the past three years,
[SPEAKER_04]: This is definitely happening again with everything everywhere all at once winning both in 2022 which I think was one of the most inspired and best film editing wins ever 2023 up and higher up and higher and last year's a noor also followed this trend.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do we think this is going to happen this year as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so tough because I don't know where the F1 of it all sort of sits.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one battle after another is probably going to win, but like I can maybe see F1 sneaking this one too.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so let's set up the five nominees or F1 Marty Supreme, one battle after another sentimental value and sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's start with F1 where the editor was Stephen Mirioni, an American.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is his fourth nomination and he did win for traffic in 2000.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, what do you think makes?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, F1 is definitely one of the front runners in this category, but definitely not a front runner for best picture.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think makes a different runner for editing?
[SPEAKER_01]: the the just the sequence the race sequences I think are it so seamlessly you know oftentimes in big action movies things like that a big complaint can be you don't know what action is happening off screen or where you are exactly positionally related.
[SPEAKER_01]: And during these race sequences in F1, you always knew where the drivers were positioned and you always sort of knew how the race was shaking out in terms of the other competitors, which is not an easy thing to do in terms of keeping track of all that in like,
[SPEAKER_01]: in a way of not thinking about of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That should be back of your mind that should not be, you should not be thinking about like, how is this race going?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they in first right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are they, are they close to the front?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're thinking about that, bad editing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so often the case with editing is, it's not supposed to be noticeable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it can be a little bit flashy and you'll
[SPEAKER_01]: But oftentimes, great editing, you're not going to notice it at all unless you're an expert at that category, which I won't say that I am by any means, but like, if you can go back later and be like, oh yeah, I always knew where the cars were that we were supposed to be following.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew where they were and what they were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just kind of good editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, and I'll say like I'm not a huge fan of the script for this film, I find a bit pain by numbers, but they do with the editing balance, what is going on with the character drama well with the racing, so that, because for someone for me, like me, I'm not necessarily as enthralled with the racing as some other people might be, and so peppering in
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, the tying it to the character drama that is what keeps me enthralled and I've to say it is the editing that draws those lines and makes me be like, oh, but where is bread pit in the standings?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where is, you know, dancing address?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I think
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a phenomenally well-edited movie, and I wouldn't be graduates win it all.
[SPEAKER_04]: It has won the critics' choice, and one other award, it lost baptas to one battle after another.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think things may be going that direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: So let's jump to one battle after another, where the editor was Andy Irgonson, an American, or so, maybe it's pronounced Jurgonson.
[SPEAKER_04]: Third, Paul Thomas Anderson collaboration with the second as lead editor, but first Oscar nomination, why do you think this one is such a front runner, other than the general films front runner status?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that definitely helps.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you were saying with the stats, you know, where one third of the best picture winners also won a sediting two thirds of the total best picture winners have at least an nomination, it just seems to go hand in hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: the pacing for me in this movie never felt slow, you know, it really felt like it was go, go, go, go, go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even in the quieter, more intimate moments, I never felt like we were losing steam or like, okay, this is the moment of respite.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we as an audience catch our breath, because the character is catching their breath.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it felt like it was not on stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Bob is on the phone trying to get the information when he's in Benicio del Toro's apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the intensity I felt in that moment, I thought was great editing for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to mention, you know, we've already talked about the car chase scene and in all that great stuff where I think that's obviously the highlight of the film in terms of the editing combined with the cinematography and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Being able to go back and forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: between all these the three cards that are racing up and down these hills, I think it just looks beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what stands out to me the most.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't always love the editing of this film in terms of the decisions that were made about the coherence and longevity of the story, I'll say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just those are my general.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that comes down more, I suppose, to what's coming from the
[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting editing, you know, the things like you're saying about the car race about these action moments, that is all exceptionally well done for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, it's definitely when it comes to precursors, it's it's one 11 and honored four times it did also win as we said the bath does it's up to four three more awards, it does seem to be the front runner here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, after seeing like the precursors, I'm like, yeah, I think it's one battle after another.
[SPEAKER_04]: It will see if that also means that it will be a best picture winner.
[SPEAKER_04]: But between the other three, Marty Supreme Sentimental Value and Sinners, what do you think is in third place?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's tough, um, probably sinners by virtue of the fact that it's, you know, pretty close being a co best picture front runner, um, although I do really like the editing and Marty Supreme as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, my favorite kind of editing is when tension is being built and Marty Supreme, you know, that whole movie is tension, and so I think it works really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on a personal level, I would probably say Marty Supreme, but on a logical level, my brain says it might be sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I mean, I am surprisingly leaning toward sinners here, but let's dive into Marty Supreme since you brought it up.
[SPEAKER_04]: The editors here are Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safty, the director himself, and Bronstein, this is his first and second and third nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: because he is best known as being a co-writer and co-editor on the films with the safeties.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good time and uncut gems and now Marty Supreme.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting to me that so we had, we've been talking a lot about uncut gems as being like the quintessential safety brothers movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now they've split up and done their own things where Josh
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels like to me, maybe, that Ronald Bronstein is actually the real second-safety brother because Marty Supreme is the successor to Uncut Gems much more than the smashing machine is to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, it's absolutely what it seems like, um, Bronstein seems to be the one that is bringing this, this manic energy, especially so with, you know, it's, it's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously, who someone is married to does not indicate who they are or or vice versa or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I recently watched, if I had like said kick you, which was written and directed by
[SPEAKER_01]: And that feels like it could be a safty movie, frankly.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's true, very stressful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I could see Robert Pants and playing that character, or I'm saying they're playing that character, or now Timothy Schaltman, playing that character.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how much it feels like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, oh, okay, it's the Bronstein Household that has this magnetic energy, which concerns me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they have children or not, but like, do we need to do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Help their check?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it why those things were, it's like, the same people that like make the most insane horror movies are the most, you know, well adjusted normal people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think of someone like David Cronenberg.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really does feel like Ronald Bronstein is the secret ingredient to making the safty movies work and the fact that He did not work on the smashing machine and that movie in my opinion was a complete flop and awful shows that he might be the one that has it
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I do, I actually like, Marty Supreme, I mean, I like it in general better than one battle after another, that's fine, I'm not a secret, but I do particularly like the editing here.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it is because of, you know, the mix of those high-paced ping-pong sequences, like they make me so enthralled in the ping-pong matches, but also, you know, we have like the bigger montages, like that globe trotters tour montage.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think this is a film that, yeah, that stressful high pace, that the safety movies, or maybe we should say the Bronstein movies are really known for, is driven by the editing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which at this point, how long is it going to be until Rahl Bronstein directs his own movie?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sorry, Josh Saffy, especially after Josh Saffy's in some hot water this season over past actions.
[SPEAKER_04]: We referred to in a previous episode about things that took place on his set regarding not protecting under age actresses.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually, I would love to see.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to see Ronald and Mary do a movie together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that wouldn't be good for their marriage.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I would love to see what came out of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one, it's one a couple of minor awards, but it's, yeah, as we said, it's definitely not considered one of the front runners.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's switch to one of my favorites in the category, it made me my favorite overall.
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, my favorite film overall centers where the editor is Michael P. Schoffer.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is his first nomination, he's an American, but his fifth Ryan Kugler collaboration also worked on Abigail and quite place too, so like very much knows her.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it also worked as an additional editor on Better Man, and I just think everyone who worked on the film Better Man is brilliant, and yes, it's not this year's film, but I will never stop talking about Better Man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And nor should you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just delivering everything on top level like sinners.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think for me, sinners with the, and I know other people disagree, but for me, it was a great feat in good pacing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they, you know, have read a lot of interviews where they've talked about things like how they had to set up the expectations in the opening, so like they kind of switched around the way the order of events so that they could set it up as a harm movie, but still give you,
[SPEAKER_04]: that time that the characters could just live in this day so that later when a character says that was the best day of my life before all that happened you feel it you feel it it really comes in like it all punches you together in the end because of the way that editing laid out the pacing and and pointed you toward this final moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you think about sinners editing overall?
[SPEAKER_01]: I really liked it too, you know, there are some fantastic sequence in this, especially, you know, we've been talking about ad nauseam, but the main musical sequence, I think, is just absolutely stunning in the way that that is put together, because that could have easily been something that may be...
[SPEAKER_01]: felt a little forced, and it doesn't, and so I think that's a bit of a testament to the editing there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did feel the length of this movie a little bit toward in the final act, especially the sort of the coda, the epilogue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really care for, but that's definitely more of a me thing, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have as noticeable editing compared to, in my opinion, one battle or Marty Supreme, or even have one, so it's a bit lower on my own personal list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, not because it's bad movie by any source, but it's definitely just isn't as flashy as the others.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and as I've been talking about, I like this blending in, but I definitely have a deeper appreciation of this one, just because I love the film so much overall, I've done so much intense diving into all the aspects of its filmmaking.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, 20 to 30% of test audiences told them to take out the surreal montage, thank god they didn't listen to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but I just love like the more subtle things they do with the editing like how they they'll do a long shot to let you settle into a scene and the way, you know, it edits to closer and closer cuts of the characters as you get to know them, um, you know, they also used they used everything they could to.
[SPEAKER_04]: to differentiate the two twins so you'll find like quicker cuts with the jovial stack character and longer cuts with the more offensive smoke character and you know they had to make a lot of hard decisions like with there was a version of the film that had the church scene at the end and the final shootout cut through each other and they decided not to do that which I think
[SPEAKER_04]: But also things like the seamless oneer of that, you know, that requires some very subtle editing to make these oneers that have actual cuts work as if they don't have actual cuts.
[SPEAKER_04]: But just I think also I really respond to
[SPEAKER_04]: combinations of editing that I haven't seen before.
[SPEAKER_04]: So one of my favorite sequences in the film is when I mentioned it earlier when Legion Lee walks back and forth between the shots between the shops.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's a one or following her that whole time, but you're actually listening to a conversation between two other characters that's setting up
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't feel like important information at the time that is talking about a gambling curveuffle, but it sets up things that happen later in the film.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and just like, yeah, it's, it comes down to taste for sure because I did not feel the length of this film at all, any of the four times that I watched it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, in, I think editing in general is something we'll talk about, especially with sentimental value.
[SPEAKER_04]: It really comes down to, you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: to taste.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you need just a certain intuition that I'm not sure can be clearly taught to do it well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then there's going to be people who respond to your particular taste and then people who respond better to other people's particular taste, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that's the best way of putting it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's not a front runner in this category, but it's remains a front runner in my heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: Since I mentioned it, yeah, let's talk about why I guess it's the last one in the category.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sentimental value.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is
[SPEAKER_04]: We haven't talked about this yet, this episode, so this is Joaquim Trier, the plot is Sister's Nora, an Agnes reunite with her estranged father, the charismatic Gustav, a once renowned director who offers stage actress Nora, a role in what he hopes will be his comeback film.
[SPEAKER_04]: When Nora turns it down, she's soon discovered she has given her heart to an eager, young, Hollywood star, and this has been nominated nine times.
[SPEAKER_04]: We talked about it in best picture preview in the international episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Today in editing, also it'll be talks about
[SPEAKER_04]: And the editor is Olivier Bouge Couté, or maybe, yeah, I'm pronouncing it at the French way, because it looks French, although he is Danish, and this is his first nomination, although he did edit Thelma, which is a film that I have an affection for, and the Apprentice, which I've less affection for, and this is his sixth collaboration with Trier.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you think about sentimental value as a film and the editing aspect of it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I adore this film.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was absolutely stunningly beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cried multiple times in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Joaquim Dreyer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought this was one of my favorite moves of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, in terms of the actual editing, I'm a bit surprised that it's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it swept up with the love of this film overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's one of the best picture contenders in terms of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the top half that have a chance to win and I think it may be allowed it to get an nomination here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I went to have necessarily put it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, comparing to what we were talking about with stuff like F1 and Marty Supreme with quick cuts and tension building and all this sort of stuff, I think the
[SPEAKER_01]: where we don't know how long a shot is going to hold on someone's face and that can make people feel uncomfortable where you're just staring at someone's own discomfort on screen for a long period of time and you're wondering when it will end and that also adds tension to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think the editing and this is,
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfectly acceptable for what this film needs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does a great job.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's neither in your face or questionable at any times.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's, it could have gone to a more flashy film, not that it's a bad thing that's here, but like I could have seen another film sneaking in instead of sentimental value.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, yeah, I mean, it was definitely a surprise to them as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: It only got one other nomination in this category at the Ostra Film Awards, which it didn't win.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you could see the sentiment of value team.
[SPEAKER_04]: They released a reaction video to the Oscar nominations.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this award, when it was announced, got the biggest reaction from them.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think
[SPEAKER_04]: in part because they didn't expect it and also in part perhaps because it was a signal that they were going to get a best picture nomination which followed that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is very much, it's not a flashy one, it's very much a
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a recognition of thoughtful decision making when it comes to editing, you know, with having to cut your darlings like apparently he cut down a 26 minute sequence when Gustav goes to France down to 10 minutes, which is that is one of my favorite sequences, but I also understand, you know, he said you can't stay away from nor in that long.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a lot of decisions like that and also just working with the idiosyncrasies of Joaquim Trier, like Trier loves these voiceover driven montages and so that takes some extra editing to keep it visually interesting while that's going on to keep you engaged.
[SPEAKER_04]: and decisions like where to cut and leave space for the brain to fill in the action in between as a trick to keep the audience more engaged with what is a pretty much a talker film.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, and also, you know, I like listening to Kutei talk about how his naturalistic take, you know, where Joe Kim will take a few takes from a bunch of different angles, but he really tries to just, he doesn't want to cut away from
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he doesn't want to do ADR, he doesn't want to combine takes because he says you can feel it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He wants it all to feel very real.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's one of the things that sold the movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I understand the nomination, but let me ask you what would you have nominated instead in this category?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a big fan of Blackbag, the Steven Sodaberg movie, so I would be one, I really liked the editing in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that especially the two big centerpiece dinner conversations were terrific for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe even something like Wakeup Deadman, I really love the sort of twisty turning nature of those films.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the knives of movies, so that would have been one that I really liked because I thought it was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a good time with the editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, I would have 28 years later here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the, I've talked about it in the Baptist episode, but the editing is one of the things that blew me away in that film, just in terms of the way it drew together the, the cinematography and editing of the original films, but making it something new in pushing boundaries.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that really works for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that good boy this year, the dog horror film, was another feat of editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: just because basically, you know, the dog keeps getting honored for the dog's performance in the film.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's basically all a trick of editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I have to really point down on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I also loved the Indonesian film, Sorry, wife from the future.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a time loop film and time loop films require a certain type of editing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as a kind of sort of time loop films, I'll say that one did it particularly well.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no short list in this category, but of the five that we're edited, what do you think one battle has it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you think F1 is equal front runner status?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one that I'm very back and forth about where I'm not totally sure where I land on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in the end one battle will end up getting it because I think they are going to be the big winner of the night.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a category that they're going to be able to pick up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it also when surprised me if F1 does end up winning it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be quite the surprise, and it might, it would mean that like F1 is going to be a big winner in their own right with sound editing with best sound as well, but yeah, I do think it's probably going to be one battle.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm putting on my own personal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you pick if it were up to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably, this is tough.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, I mean, I think it's probably going to be one battle just guided by when I was going through the precursors.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, God damn, it's really been racking him up.
[SPEAKER_04]: My personal pick would be sinners though, but it ain't going to happen in this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: I doubt it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If sinners wins this category, then my prediction is it's definitely winning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Best picture after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Whereas if one battle wins this category, either still a shot for sinners to take best picture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that too,
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, let's move on to the final category, sound, which the nominees are F1, Frankenstein, one battle after another, sinners and Sarat.
[SPEAKER_04]: So only one new one we haven't talked about, but let's jump back in with F1, definitely, one of the two favorites in this category, where the nominees are L, Nelson, Guendolin, Yates, Whittle, Gary, Rizzo, or Rizzo,
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, one Perlta and Gareth John, these are working at Skywalker Sound, which has the name implies, is also part of Lucasfilm.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's an all-American team except for Gareth John, who's British.
[SPEAKER_04]: And for most of them, it's the second or later nom.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nelson the team lead second nomination after winning for Top Gun Maverick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, F1 same directors, Top Gun Maverick.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have people who've worked on the trauma movies, avatar movies, Nolan movies, Dune Part II, the biggest
[SPEAKER_04]: winner, like the one who has racked up the most nominations is Gary, I don't know if it's a risotto or a rito, I'm leaning Italian, let's go read so.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who has eight nominations in one twice for inception and Dunkirk?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, obviously sound room room, what do you think is glowing people away about the F1 sound?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it's as simple as that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a category that is traditionally dominated by war films or films that feature a large battle sequence and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have that this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no real big war movie at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the fact that we don't have that as a frontrunner, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I could have seen Avatar being here because that's probably was the closest to being sort of that prestigey or type movie, and they didn't get an nomination, which was a little surprising to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the closest, the next closest thing that they love after big action scenes is vehicles that make a lot of noise, and F1 has a lot of vehicles that make a lot of noise.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's as simple as the room room of it all, and I think they did a great job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the way this movie sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went to a NASCAR race for the first time in my life last year when traveled down to Mexico.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, just hearing a pack of cars Zoom by you is one of the most exhilarating things that I have ever heard in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think F1 did a great job recreating that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I showed that was really cool that there's a bit in the movie where we get a montage of all the different races.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the race track that I went to in Mexico makes a brief appearance in F1, which I thought was great.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was excited that there's a Dutch driver who marks for Stockton, who I just know his name because he constantly talk about him on the news and in this movie, I was like, oh, he's important internationally, because I keep talking about him here too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so as I've learned from you, the Dutch don't like to promote themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, I just don't know much about, I used to like, in college, I dated someone who was really into F1 and so I learned a lot about it then, but since after we broke up, I was like, and F1 out of my brain done, so I don't know much about this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was that aspect of this film was fun for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously, yeah, the sound design I understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say it's the front runner here at one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've noticed when I was going through precursors, there are not as many awards for sound as there are for a lot of the other categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: But F1 did win critics' choice, it did win BAF does, so it's probably the front runner here.
[SPEAKER_04]: But do you agree that maybe the second dark horse is Sarat?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would hope so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Sarat sort of feels like train dreams and cinematography where it's like, no, this is the inspired pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, unlike train dreams, Sarat just is having no buzz around it, where it's one of those movies where like, if you see it, you get it, but it kind of feels like a lot of people have not seen it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so to set this one up since we haven't talked about it in this episode yet, we did talk about it in the international episode because it has two nominations in our national and sound.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an Oliver Locks film about a man and his son who arrived at a rave lost in the mountains of Morocco.
[SPEAKER_04]: They are looking for Marina, their daughter and sister, who disappeared months ago and another rave driven by fate.
[SPEAKER_04]: They decide to follow a group of ravers in search
[SPEAKER_04]: And the team nominated is Amanda via via via Lila, Casanovas, and Yasmina, Pradaras, and they're all Spanish first nominations, and we should say the first all woman sound team to be nominated here.
[SPEAKER_04]: which you would hope that story would get more traction to help them, but I think the real reason why people are excited about this movie in the sounds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, whatever you think about the film, everyone I've spoken to is like, but watch it in the theater because of the sound.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess that has a lot to do with the rave, but also with the engines of the vehicles and the caravan.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are your feelings about the film overall and the sound?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was terrific.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not know that that's sad about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the first all woman team to be nominated here, which awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to hear that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish they were making a bigger deal of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, it's a side product of no one seems to be talking about this movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can't talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not talking about the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: The sound isn't credible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost feel like
[SPEAKER_01]: not going to spoil this movie at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely good to go into this movie blind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost think that it's being overshadowed by some moment in this film that are unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: That you, that ends up becoming the talking point rather than the terrific sound design of this movie because your right everyone does come out raving about the sound design.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think
[SPEAKER_01]: X moment, Y moment, set moment, not going to say which involve a lot of sound design for those moments, I'll say 100% but especially the the first big moment, I think it's just like oh, it's this type of movie, okay
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, well, I'll say there's also like there's a scene where there's just a random conversation as is there because there's my favorite moments of this movie are not those later moments which are maybe get a little nihilistic for me but the where they just are chilling and having conversations and they even have an entire conversation about sound design within the movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: where they're kind of communicating, the sound teams, philosophy about this, about this, like wanting this distortion and grainy sound texture, like textured sound basically.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I agree this would be the inspired pick here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't love the movie as much as you do because of the other things we
[SPEAKER_04]: this would be my pick to win in this category.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wish they would win here.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's done well at European film awards that is not a huge, I mean it's a sizable obviously contingency in the Academy, but I think that the American contingency is going to go with F1, whereas the Europeans are like, no, don't forgets around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely feels that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think would be third place between Frankenstein, one battle, and sinners?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would probably say sinners because on top of the traditional action movies that they like, they also like movies at feature music.
[SPEAKER_01]: And live music and things like that, which is why, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: the first wicked movie did so great in this category last year when it came out because the big thing about that was that was all record at live.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seniors was not record live as far as I am aware.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was actually a lot of it once.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then that's probably probably why.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of tough when a movie is is great on so many different technical levels.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only so many stories can kind of come to the forefront because then you just set up muddying the waters a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have not heard a bunch of discussion about the the sinners sound and the music specifically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other than the songs, you know, the songs themselves are getting a lot of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, I thought, you know, the music's out at terrific.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some incredible numbers, you know, you think of the first time we see preacher boy singing in the car and just like how powerful his voice is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's that's part of the sound design is it's just how good he sounds there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think Michael B. Jordan and I both went, woo, at the same time.
[SPEAKER_04]: I literally made that sound out loud in the theater the first time I saw it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'll say on this sound side, this is another Skywalker sound project, and the nominees are Chris Welker, Benjamin A. Bert.
[SPEAKER_04]: Felipe, Pinchaco, Brandon, Proctor, and Steve Buducker, um, all American team except Pinchaco, who's Costa Rican American.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it is the first nomination for Welker and Pinchaco, second nomination for Bert and Proctor after Black Panther.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I should say that Benjamin Abert is the son of Benbert, who is famous for inventing the Wilhelm Scream, and other sawers sound effects like Vader breathing in R2D2, etc.
[SPEAKER_01]: So...
[SPEAKER_04]: Skywander sound alumni.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10% Ben Bird is probably the most famous sound designer ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he obviously learned from the best watching his dad and probably knew how to be a better sound designer than most people did by the time he was like five years old.
[SPEAKER_04]: Although the most awarded on this team is Booterker who is his fourth nomination after all is lost in both Black Panther films.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can see obviously Ryan Kugler likes to he finds people he likes to work with and then he likes to keep working with them, which honestly makes sense to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, as far as you talked about the musical aspect of one other thing that I'll shout out is just the way that they use sound design to sort of define the moving back and forth between the real world and this more supernatural world, so pay a particular attention to, for example, the scenes around Annie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who is the one who's most connected with like the hudu side of things and obviously seems around the vampires as well and how they play with like the resonances and things there to and also visually they play with this as well to suggest this loosening of bonds with the Concrete physical world, so I appreciate that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, just great job with all that
[SPEAKER_04]: And it has won some awards, like the Astrophoma Awards and some others.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's though probably, you know, behind obviously as we said the other two.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I would say the next in line after this would be one battle, which is another Pew Pew film.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, with mixed with that, like they mix the sound effects with that frenetic score.
[SPEAKER_04]: And by day, I mean, more skywalkersound.
[SPEAKER_04]: with the nominees are Jose Antonio Garcia, Christopher Scarabozio, and Tony Via 4 via floor.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Garcia is Mexican.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other two are American.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is the first nomination for via floor.
[SPEAKER_04]: Third nomination for the other two, Garcia was nominated previously for Argo and Roma and Scarabozio for Star Wars, the Force Awakens and Rogue One.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, Skywalker,
[SPEAKER_04]: uh... well you know what do your thoughts on the one-battle sound
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does sound great, this is probably the most actiony movie of the group in terms of using guns and things like that, but yeah, it feels like this is, you know, I mentioned it earlier with other categories, it feels like this might be one where the one battle love got swept up into here, where it's in get an nomination here, I want to be terribly
[SPEAKER_01]: It's perfectly good sound, but it's not the one that I would have predicted to be here for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I think in another year it might have even been a frontrunner just because you know, there is a lot of sound going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll say a lot of guns and explosions and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it is definitely not getting as much attention as the other nominees and I think that's perfectly fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me guess your fifth ranked on this one is Frankenstein.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I would say so.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so okay, Frankenstein the it's a group of small Canadian studios that did this and the team nominated is Greg Chapman Nathan Robotai Nelson Ferreira Christian Cook and Brad Zorn this is the first or second nomination for all of them those who for whom it's a second nomination worked also with Del Toro on the shape of water.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so, what do your thoughts on the sound in Frankenstein?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do you think it's not as up with the others?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it just was not a very noticeable aspect for me altogether.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some interesting stuff with the ice cracking when the ship is stuck at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was fine and interesting enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a movie that relies on its sound design to tell its story compared to, I would say, the other form movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, while I said one battle after another, you know, didn't, it was a bit of a surprising nomination.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's quite a bit of, you know, gun sounds and action, and that sort of stuff that makes sense of why it's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frank and Sinem a bit confused about why it's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's perfectly fine, but like, it just doesn't stand out in the same way for me at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I suppose they would point to the sound mixing of, you know, there's natures like with animals and the Arctic ice cracking sort of things, but also, especially with the creature, roars and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like Frankenstein, it's like people are like, we want to reward Del Toro for making his dream movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's been wanting to make for 20 years.
[SPEAKER_04]: And where should we do it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we should do it in all the below the line categories, especially.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as I've said, I think that's very deserving on the production design things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Side of things, particularly costume design, which I hope cake Holly does win.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think she will.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, maybe this just slid under, under like, oh, we're rewarding this movie for technical stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Put it in sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely feels like it got swept up with all the technical love.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, what's your final prediction for who's going to win and your favorite of these five?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think F1 is the one that is the front runner to win this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to walk away pretty easily.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would also say that's probably my favorite too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sarat does have some excellent design, but it really sort of picking and choosing its moments whereas F1, it sort of feels like the backbone of the movie is the sound design.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, I understand that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I don't regret F1 will probably win my personal favorite.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would be excited to see Serrat win just as you said.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a more inspired choice and that's usually what I go for.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think it's going to be F1.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll say this is a category with a short list of 10 totals.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the other five were Avatar Fire and Ash mission impossible, the final reckoning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Springsteen deliver me from nowhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I quick and for good should be in there to be honest, but I think as we said, it was suffering from the sequelitis of like, well, what new thing did you do?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Superman, I hate the Superman's not nominated for anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would like to see it there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, you can see it's a mix of as we had expected technical spectacles and, you know, musical like Springstein delivered me from nowhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm quite surprised we could for good didn't get here as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely a surprise for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, you mentioned it earlier, Predator Badlands, Web and Awesomeifos here, Warfare was one that I would also love to see you get here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that there has been an issue of them, you know, just kind of like here are the films are nominated for everything that's Gotham and these categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I would like to see more inspired picks, like, so route in the future.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that they're doing the bake-offs with certain categories privately.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were talking about it in the production design episode that Lisa and I would love to see like I wish they would share that with us, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I hope that we see more inspired picks in the future like we saw and make up in here this year for example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so how's the rest of your death race going?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have any overall favorites or predictions?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I mean, my favorite of the year was one battle after another, so I'm happy that I got so many nominations.
[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of what I'm still missing, uh, I'm very excited to watch both, uh, the ugly stepsister and Cocoa, who's probably the two big ones I've left that I'm very excited for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I always enjoy the shorts, so it's going to be interesting to sort of see which category, you know, has the best nominations, because there's usually one of the three that is a little bit weaker overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I find it's usually the live action shorts or the documentary shorts, usually always impressed by the animated shorts, though.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the live action shorts is my favorite of the shorts categories for this year.
[SPEAKER_04]: It often is I definitely favor live action and animated over docks in general and I do this year as well, but for me the live action shorts, like I just like all bangers all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good to know for me going into them then.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I did.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've recorded with, you know, Brandon as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: We had a nice conversation about those and he felt, yeah, he was also like live action.
[SPEAKER_04]: Great lineup this year.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I hope you enjoyed too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he is the person that would know that better than anyone.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you Dakota for coming and sharing the things that you know better than everyone today.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was great to talk to you about these four categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, I will be linking in the show notes, the link to your podcast, Contra Zoom and to the blog as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: We can find some writing for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything else that you want to mention coming up?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the throws of Oscar season just like you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure exactly when this is coming out, but I will have, we're going to do an Oscar draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to pick movies based on who we think is going to have the most wins.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's always a fun little short episode that I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I'll do my final predictions episode right before.
[SPEAKER_01]: the Oscars come out, and of course a recap as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I love Oscar season, just like you do, that's why we do the death racing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always, it's always fun game to talk about the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I definitely recommend, you know, if you enjoyed Dakota's insights here, then you will get that there as well as from other people with other areas of expertise joining you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You always have a great lineup of guest hosts with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, yeah, especially one Alicia Brenner.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yeah, I'll link that with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you call it one, no, no, one begonia, since then.
[SPEAKER_01]: One begonia after another.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Each episode, I do two to three, three or four of the best picture nominees, and I tried to come up with a clever title incorporating all of the names, and I was quite happy with myself coming up with that one along with the last one that came out as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I did a really good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one was tricky because it was all one word titles, but yeah, the latest episode
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's just me being cheeky.
[SPEAKER_04]: So definitely recommend checking those out as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much Dakota.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, Alicia.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you again to Dakota for joining me for that very interesting technical conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And thank you to all of you listening right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope that you will enjoy that conversation just as much if you did.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please do share it with anyone else.
[SPEAKER_04]: You think would also get something out of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clearly, this episode was recorded before the society of cinematographers awards, and so those have now since happened, so I can update that the winner was one battle after another, so this is why I said earlier that maybe my estimations have changed, this to me kind of makes one battle after another perhaps.
[SPEAKER_04]: The front runner in cinematography or co-front runner with sinners, I suppose that's the case for a lot of the different awards categories this year.
[SPEAKER_04]: Unfortunately, I think that means that train dreams might be out, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_04]: But as I keep saying, this is such a chaotic award season, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily a lock for the Oscars.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this will be another nail biter.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now about the visual effects conversation, very shortly after we recorded this, the corridor crew, my favorite YouTube channel for learning about VFX, they put out their annual dive into the nominees in the VFX category.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just, it's a 27-minute video, very interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can see visual accompaniments to a lot of the things that we talked about, and they go, in some cases, but deeper, like they geek out over the technical details and avatar.
[SPEAKER_04]: And though they agree on the writing and point out some logic issues, they give the lost bus its proper VFX flowers, since I've ever such a hater in our conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I highly recommend checking out that video from the corridor crew.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll find that link to the show notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll also link there just after that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Warner Brothers put out a deep dive into this sinner's VFX.
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, you'll see a lot of the things that we talked about more detail in some few other things as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, there's a lot of sinners favoritism here, but it's my podcast and I'll push sinners if I want to.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, no, switching over to sound, this variety of did put out a video diving into the sound design and mixing with a lot more detail than we went into.
[SPEAKER_04]: So definitely recommend that as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, we are nearing the end of our pre-oscars series.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's only two episodes left, which will be coming in quick succession.
[SPEAKER_04]: One dedicated to writing and directing and the final pre-oscars episode dedicated to the acting and casting categories, but then David and I will be back after the Oscars to wrap it all up and to rank the best picture nominees ourselves, plus a few extras were throwing into the mix
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course, there's lots of other non-award season stuff going on on the Lohound's main feed.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's weekly coverage of the pit.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a one piece one shot and there will be some more one piece season two coverage coming soon.
[SPEAKER_04]: The bone temple coming soon.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a check-in just recently about the paradise new season.
[SPEAKER_04]: A book nook episode from the Earth C series.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, if you are a supercaster Patreon subscriber, then you get all of these episodes ad-free plus you get extra episodes, like this month's theme is warehouse wars for second breakfast, and for 11z's it is the March of the Millennials, voting is currently open for subscribers as to which film we will cover, I'll say Mean Girls is leading with the Obrotherware Arthel in second place.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you are listening to this as it comes out, you have about a day or so still to cast your own vote.
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, don't forget to check out the affiliates like properly Howard, which just started a new season of film reviews, never mind the music, which just put out an episode about Shania Twain.
[SPEAKER_04]: radioactive ramblings which just wrapped up their fallout series with invincible and the boys coming soon.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now we have reached the musical thank you's part of our show with a special thank yous for those who choose to support us financially.
[SPEAKER_04]: We can't tell you.
[SPEAKER_04]: how grateful we are to all of you, starting with our Discord server boosters, Erin Kay, Tiller of the Thriller doves, 71 Athena Angelaya, Lestu, Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, Radioactive Richard, and Adrienne.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you to all of our subscribers, you help us keep doing this.
[SPEAKER_04]: We especially could not do this without the lore masters, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, S.C. Peter O'H, Nancy M. Doves 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Gerritzzi, Andrew B. Kwangu, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Delhi V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W. Lustu, Jeffrey B. Liesa U, Ben B. Scott F. Stevenen,
[SPEAKER_04]: Julia F. Callie S. Illmariel, Paul K. Rocky Zim, Jessica A.
[SPEAKER_04]: Red Zippy, The TCS, Dope Bummini, Ketchit, Elinar, Mrs. Tenet, AC Wilson, Eli W. Cassie K. Chummerooney, Katia, Josh Liu, Painton Pediex, Cory G, Quinch, and always last Adrienne.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you all so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Enjoy the rest of your week and hope to see you for the life Oscars viewing party chat this Sunday on the Discord.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at theloorhounds.com slash contact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get early and add free access to all lorhounds.com at patreon.com slash the lorhounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.