WEBVTT 00:28.583 --> 00:33.950 [SPEAKER_02]: This episode started as an anthology, three seemingly connected cases told together. 00:34.370 --> 00:39.497 [SPEAKER_02]: Then I got into the case and realized as usual, there was much more there than it seemed. 00:40.077 --> 00:43.201 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelley Sabo was just a teenager when she was murdered. 00:43.622 --> 00:49.710 [SPEAKER_02]: In her young years she had been trafficked into sex work, had lost a child, and was struggling to get her life back on track. 00:50.210 --> 00:58.000 [SPEAKER_02]: Her killer was caught, but was just a 00:57.980 --> 00:58.964 [SPEAKER_00]: Unlikely. 00:59.004 --> 01:01.614 [SPEAKER_02]: Unlikely? 01:01.634 --> 01:04.986 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, well, yeah, yeah. 01:05.405 --> 01:08.328 [SPEAKER_02]: Laslo Sabo was born in Hungary back in 1935. 01:08.348 --> 01:16.016 [SPEAKER_02]: In 1963, and now located in Dayton, Washington, he wed Darrell Louise Holly Wiedler. 01:16.497 --> 01:19.020 [SPEAKER_02]: At some point, the couple moved to and lived in Idaho. 01:19.480 --> 01:24.065 [SPEAKER_02]: In May of 1973, 10 years and four children later, the couple divorced. 01:24.465 --> 01:33.555 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell was granted full custody, and the paper felt it was necessary to share not only were they getting a divorce, but she would be receiving $250 a month in child support. 01:34.008 --> 01:39.193 [SPEAKER_02]: And for the record, there were multiple reports that said they had four children and also five children. 01:39.313 --> 01:46.060 [SPEAKER_02]: So, between four and five, one of those children was Shelly Renee Zabbo of all of the children. 01:46.160 --> 01:49.444 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell said Shelly was the only one who ever caused any trouble. 01:49.984 --> 01:55.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Hoping a change in scenery would help Shelly, Darrell and the rest of the kids moved to Portland in 1975. 01:55.490 --> 02:02.817 [SPEAKER_02]: They may have spent some time in Hermiston on their way as that was where Shelly raised a grand champion 02:03.607 --> 02:12.206 [SPEAKER_02]: In Portland, the change didn't have the hoped for effect on Shelley's behavior, and soon she ran back to Meridian, Ohio, where she stayed with her older sister Sue. 02:12.747 --> 02:17.297 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelley had big plans to return to school, get her GED, and join the Air Force. 02:17.758 --> 02:21.666 [SPEAKER_02]: That dream lasted for about two weeks before she returned to Portland. 02:21.646 --> 02:24.211 [SPEAKER_02]: Just 17 years old, Shelley met someone. 02:24.631 --> 02:29.821 [SPEAKER_02]: This unnamed man quickly became abusive and was soon trafficking Shelley as a sex worker. 02:30.402 --> 02:38.496 [SPEAKER_02]: Unaware of what her teenage daughter was doing, Darl was shocked when the police called to report that 17-year-old Shelley had been arrested for prostitution. 02:38.917 --> 02:41.882 [SPEAKER_02]: She had no clue Shelley had been turned out. 02:41.862 --> 02:52.264 [SPEAKER_02]: Things with the man quickly became violent, he often beat Shelley and on one occasion he knocked out her front teeth with a beer bottle, forever altering her beauty queen level smile. 02:53.065 --> 02:58.076 [SPEAKER_02]: The abuse was too much for young Shelley and she would frequently return home in an attempt to get help. 02:58.597 --> 03:02.385 [SPEAKER_02]: Each time the man would come knocking and would force Shelley back to the street. 03:02.365 --> 03:06.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell was discouraged, but she wasn't about to give up on her child. 03:06.675 --> 03:19.665 [SPEAKER_02]: She hoped that since her daughter was now involved in the justice system having been arrested for solicitation, resources such as counseling would be accessible via the district attorney or the Montnomah County Juvenile Services Department. 03:19.645 --> 03:27.395 [SPEAKER_02]: She knew deep down that if her daughter got the help that she needed, she would be away from her trafficker, the abuse, and she could get her life straightened out. 03:27.935 --> 03:32.561 [SPEAKER_02]: But those resources were never presented no matter how often Darrell asked for them. 03:33.262 --> 03:40.371 [SPEAKER_02]: Eventually, probably due to the arrests and because she was underage, Shelley was assigned counseling at the juvenile center. 03:40.351 --> 03:46.659 [SPEAKER_02]: This was a step in the right direction, but Darrell's frustrations continued due to the lack of follow-up and pressure. 03:47.160 --> 03:52.887 [SPEAKER_02]: If Shelley didn't go to the sessions, no one came to get her, she was never forced to do the hard work. 03:53.648 --> 03:57.292 [SPEAKER_02]: In 1977, when Shelley was 18, she became pregnant. 03:57.673 --> 04:03.540 [SPEAKER_02]: The father is not listed, so I'm not sure if it was the trafficker boyfriend or a John. 04:03.520 --> 04:09.668 [SPEAKER_02]: The baby Richard Dean Delay Saba was born in November 1977 in San Francisco. 04:09.728 --> 04:15.595 [SPEAKER_02]: Richard was premature and needed medical care which she was able to get at Portland University Hospital. 04:16.236 --> 04:23.605 [SPEAKER_02]: Sadly, Richard only lived eight months before passing away in August of 1978, and he was hospitalized the entire time. 04:24.108 --> 04:40.499 [SPEAKER_02]: There was never a mention of drug or alcohol issues with Shelley, but it's hard to imagine that the divorce at 14, moving and running away around the same time, becoming trafficked and abused at the age of 15 or 16, then giving birth to a premature baby who then passed away. 04:40.539 --> 04:41.842 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot. 04:42.203 --> 04:46.150 [SPEAKER_02]: It would be hard to blame anyone for trying to numb that much pain. 04:46.130 --> 04:56.131 [SPEAKER_02]: So it isn't shocking as much as it is shocking to learn that Shelley's family members claimed she rarely visited her dying son while he was hospitalized. 04:56.151 --> 05:01.843 [SPEAKER_02]: It's also reported that the night before Richard's funeral, Shelley was once again arrested for prostitution. 05:02.465 --> 05:10.117 [SPEAKER_02]: All of that, combined with other unknowns, was probably why there was a huge fight at the family home on the day of the funeral. 05:10.778 --> 05:20.813 [SPEAKER_02]: Things became so heated that Shelley wound up smashing a vase on her mother's head and stabbing her mother with a screwdriver, though the report didn't say where on her body she was stabbed. 05:21.293 --> 05:24.979 [SPEAKER_02]: The head injury alone required 27 stitches. 05:24.959 --> 05:36.674 [SPEAKER_02]: Devastated by her daughter's violence while grieving the loss of her grandchild, Darrell decided to file charges against Shelley in hopes that it would get her arrested, and she could then get the help that she was in desperate need of. 05:37.355 --> 05:39.277 [SPEAKER_02]: The district attorney felt differently. 05:39.898 --> 05:50.511 [SPEAKER_02]: They actually refused to press charges, assuring Darrell, the mother, that Shelley's behavior was simply due to the grief and stress of her losing her baby. 05:51.183 --> 05:54.888 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm throwing my arm around because I'm pissed at that and I don't have the words. 05:56.230 --> 05:58.053 [SPEAKER_02]: If the bomb is saying, she needs help. 05:58.113 --> 05:58.994 [SPEAKER_02]: She's needed help. 05:59.094 --> 06:00.356 [SPEAKER_02]: She's in a bad situation. 06:00.416 --> 06:02.038 [SPEAKER_02]: This would actually be a good thing. 06:02.078 --> 06:08.027 [SPEAKER_02]: And for them to dismiss it, probably, because they didn't want to do the paperwork to just say, no, no, no, no, no. 06:08.107 --> 06:13.174 [SPEAKER_02]: She beat you with a vase and stabbed you with a screwdriver because she's sad. 06:13.643 --> 06:28.979 [SPEAKER_02]: flash forward when Shelley's history was being investigated the district attorney claimed they had no record of Darrell going to the office and the juvenile department said they too had no record of Shelley, though they did admit that it was possible it may have all been expunged. 06:29.461 --> 06:31.365 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's super helpful and cool. 06:32.881 --> 06:46.677 [SPEAKER_02]: At 9.30 a.m. on Sunday, November 26, 1978, and for the record that's a Sunday, not Thursday, thanksgiving, all the papers, one to say, thanksgiving as if it added something to this, it was not Thanksgiving. 06:47.318 --> 06:53.725 [SPEAKER_02]: An elderly man was walking his dog in the area of North Greeley Avenue, near Union Pacific Railroads, Albina Yard. 06:54.245 --> 07:02.635 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're familiar with the Portland area, this is on the west side of the five in Northeast Portland across the freeway from the Legacy Medical 07:03.121 --> 07:19.459 [SPEAKER_02]: While walking the dog ran into a clearing near the foot of a bluff overlooking Greeley Avenue in the railroad yard before bolting back to the owner, the man went to the trash strewn brushy area his dog had been alerted to when he saw what the dog had found he called the police. 07:19.439 --> 07:29.430 [SPEAKER_02]: They arrived to find the bloodstained body of a young woman lying face down, wearing jeans, a long-sleeved blue top, her shoes laying next to her, and she was holding a purse. 07:29.951 --> 07:33.715 [SPEAKER_02]: The body was identified as 19-year-old Shelley Renee Sabo. 07:34.276 --> 07:43.827 [SPEAKER_02]: With only a small amount of dirt on Shelley's heels, her white socks were clean and dry, indicating her body had been dragged to that location after being killed elsewhere. 07:44.043 --> 07:56.135 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelley's body was taken in for a medical exam and autopsy, where it was found her cause of death was due to being stabbed somewhere between 15 and 20 times, including in her abdomen, back, chest, and neck. 07:56.155 --> 07:58.738 [SPEAKER_02]: Her wrists had burn marks on them from being restrained. 07:59.198 --> 08:03.623 [SPEAKER_02]: Human hairs and fibers from the ropes used to tie her wrists were found on her body. 08:04.143 --> 08:08.768 [SPEAKER_02]: It was believed she was killed around 3 a.m. on November 26th. 08:08.748 --> 08:12.115 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelley was known by the police department as was her M.O. 08:12.135 --> 08:16.504 [SPEAKER_02]: with customers, which was where detectives were going to start their search for a suspect. 08:17.026 --> 08:23.820 [SPEAKER_02]: When Shelley was working, she would set up a meeting at a restaurant with a client who was most often a well-to-do businessman. 08:23.800 --> 08:31.550 [SPEAKER_02]: After meeting and possibly dining, they would go to a motel where she would charge a minimum of $50 or about $250 today. 08:32.011 --> 08:35.836 [SPEAKER_02]: She was not the type of girl who worked in cars or with random Johns. 08:36.497 --> 08:39.220 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelley had been arrested the Tuesday before her murder. 08:39.701 --> 08:44.948 [SPEAKER_02]: Questioning a friend, she said she thought Shelley was living in an apartment on southwest Broadway. 08:44.928 --> 08:54.478 [SPEAKER_02]: Putting a timeline together, detectives learned Shelley was not living there, but she and her boyfriend, her trafficker, or Pimp as her family referred to him, were staying at a motel. 08:55.419 --> 09:02.687 [SPEAKER_02]: In the evening and late-night hours before her death, Shelley was seen using a payphone in downtown Portland around 210am. 09:03.188 --> 09:12.538 [SPEAKER_02]: She was working so that could have been a call to a client, or it could have been the documented call she made to her boyfriend back at the motel around that same time. 09:12.518 --> 09:16.723 [SPEAKER_02]: The next time shelly would be seen was when her body was found in the bushes. 09:16.940 --> 09:19.482 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that wasn't entirely true. 09:20.003 --> 09:24.627 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it was an eyewitness that reported a tip that solved this murder. 09:25.127 --> 09:29.191 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you have information about something, call it in. 09:30.312 --> 09:36.417 [SPEAKER_02]: An unnamed 50-year-old businessman who we will refer to as Bob had a unique relationship with Shelley. 09:36.838 --> 09:41.542 [SPEAKER_02]: He had been a one-time customer of hers just a single occasion, according to him. 09:42.203 --> 09:46.086 [SPEAKER_02]: After that, they struck up a genuine friendship 09:46.066 --> 09:52.214 [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't purposefully hang out or anything like that, but they would often bump into each other at places like restaurants. 09:52.775 --> 09:55.478 [SPEAKER_02]: However, Shelley would call Bob every once in a while. 09:56.279 --> 09:59.383 [SPEAKER_02]: When the two did cross paths, Shelley would discuss her problems. 09:59.664 --> 10:04.270 [SPEAKER_02]: She was dissatisfied with her lifestyle, she had issues with her family and a problem with her boyfriend. 10:04.790 --> 10:12.360 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob was concerned and willing to maintain the friendship as he had seen bruises on Shelley after she'd been beaten by that boyfriend. 10:12.340 --> 10:17.206 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob said Shelley, quote, wasn't a prostitute in the sense of person usually thinks of one. 10:17.586 --> 10:20.310 [SPEAKER_02]: She was a young lady who did have a chance if given it. 10:20.730 --> 10:22.953 [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, she was a sweet gentle person. 10:23.434 --> 10:26.537 [SPEAKER_02]: I encouraged her to re-establish a relationship with her family. 10:27.759 --> 10:33.025 [SPEAKER_02]: And in all fairness, this is the late 70s, as far as what you picture for a prostitute. 10:33.105 --> 10:37.371 [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to make that clear that that's not our opinion, and this is from 50 years ago. 10:37.651 --> 10:39.293 [SPEAKER_00]: What opinion, oh, with the guys? 10:39.391 --> 10:42.695 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's a sweet girl and she could do something if given the chance. 10:42.735 --> 10:48.681 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yes, all sex workers, our humans and need some sort of support, you know what I mean? 10:48.842 --> 10:49.402 [SPEAKER_00]: He was trying. 10:49.442 --> 10:52.946 [SPEAKER_02]: He's at, hey, for 78, I'll take it. 10:53.206 --> 10:55.349 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I'm glad he's nice to her. 10:55.369 --> 10:57.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, at least that's nice. 10:57.551 --> 10:58.032 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good to hear. 10:58.593 --> 11:00.755 [SPEAKER_02]: He is our hero, actually. 11:01.556 --> 11:01.836 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello. 11:02.217 --> 11:02.477 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 11:03.118 --> 11:07.963 [SPEAKER_02]: So he gets whatever we can make up for a good citizen alert. 11:10.998 --> 11:13.710 [SPEAKER_02]: That's because Bob didn't just do what was right. 11:14.112 --> 11:18.713 [SPEAKER_02]: He risked a lot to do so, and he helped solve Shelley's case. 11:19.250 --> 11:29.629 [SPEAKER_02]: While working late probably because he was a well-known optometrist in the Portland area for over 20 years, Bob decided he would swing by one of the restaurants he knew Shelley frequented. 11:29.649 --> 11:37.624 [SPEAKER_02]: He was specifically seeking her that night as she had left several messages for him over the previous few days, and he was starting to get worried. 11:38.365 --> 11:42.473 [SPEAKER_02]: When she wasn't at their first spot, he started driving to another restaurant. 11:42.453 --> 11:48.327 [SPEAKER_02]: This was around 3am on November 26th, six hours before Shelley's body would be found. 11:48.989 --> 11:54.483 [SPEAKER_02]: As Bob traveled from one location to another, he wound up at the intersection of Grand and Holiday. 11:54.503 --> 11:58.352 [SPEAKER_02]: This is at the Lloyds Center area denies for Portland folks. 11:59.024 --> 12:02.870 [SPEAKER_02]: As Bob sat at the intersection, he noticed a tow truck in the left lane. 12:03.351 --> 12:07.437 [SPEAKER_02]: When he passed the truck, he looked over and saw a young woman in the window. 12:07.958 --> 12:13.125 [SPEAKER_02]: He quickly realized it just so happened to be Shelley and she was trying to signal to him. 12:13.666 --> 12:18.113 [SPEAKER_02]: He was alarmed as she wasn't smiling or waving as she normally would have been. 12:18.093 --> 12:29.110 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead, she had a look of terror on her face, as Bob tried to process what he was seeing, he realized Shelley was trying to wave but couldn't and only her shoulders and head could move. 12:29.631 --> 12:36.422 [SPEAKER_02]: That bizarre movement paired with the look of horror in her eyes, caused him to realize she was tied up and needed help. 12:36.402 --> 12:41.849 [SPEAKER_02]: Thinking fast, he turned around and got behind the truck that was now traveling west on northeast holiday. 12:42.389 --> 12:46.495 [SPEAKER_02]: The fog was thick that night and I'm sure Bob's adrenaline was rushing. 12:46.975 --> 12:52.362 [SPEAKER_02]: He was unable to stay with the truck but continued to search the area for it or a police cruiser. 12:52.903 --> 12:56.667 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob eventually found a tow truck and stopped it but Shelley was not inside. 12:57.188 --> 13:01.313 [SPEAKER_02]: Looking closer, he realized the paint didn't match and it was not the same truck. 13:02.187 --> 13:08.118 [SPEAKER_02]: For two hours, Bob frantically drove around the area desperate to find Shelley or the tow truck. 13:08.599 --> 13:12.667 [SPEAKER_02]: He gave up around 5am and drove the 15 minutes east to his home in Gresham. 13:13.228 --> 13:21.724 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob was so distraught he decided he needed to wake his wife who learned about Shelley and the relationship her husband had had with her for the first time. 13:22.085 --> 13:22.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa. 13:22.847 --> 13:23.588 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 13:23.568 --> 13:41.529 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure the status of their marriage at that time, but I can't think of a lot of women who would be happy to be woken up by their husband who's finally coming home with the sun to be told that he not only had relations with a sex worker, but he had become friends with her and he saw her possibly getting kidnapped. 13:42.410 --> 13:50.740 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob told his wife how he was unable to help Shelley and that he was quote quite sure there was something wrong with the circumstances that he had witnessed. 13:51.445 --> 14:02.542 [SPEAKER_02]: So again, ring a ding ding, Bob did the right thing, risking his business, his marriage, everything. 14:02.883 --> 14:03.724 [SPEAKER_00]: That's uh, yeah. 14:03.844 --> 14:05.828 [SPEAKER_00]: That was some, he was telling the truth. 14:06.168 --> 14:06.769 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 14:06.789 --> 14:07.290 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe. 14:07.590 --> 14:07.751 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 14:07.771 --> 14:13.099 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like, those are some, he dropped bombshells, Bob shells, drop in Bob shells everywhere. 14:14.918 --> 14:27.139 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which I think really with his testimony of what she looked like in that truck and the idea of doing that, I think that shows how terrifying that really was. 14:27.159 --> 14:31.106 [SPEAKER_02]: Not just, okay, I'll wait till morning. 14:31.126 --> 14:33.189 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I didn't really sleep this weird thing happened. 14:33.209 --> 14:35.694 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought I saw somebody in a car that kind of freaks me out. 14:35.714 --> 14:38.519 [SPEAKER_02]: No, wake up, I saw something bad. 14:38.559 --> 14:39.981 [SPEAKER_02]: I need help. 14:41.142 --> 14:47.553 [SPEAKER_02]: It would be Bob's wife who would later break the news to him that there was a story in the news that Shelley's body had been found. 14:48.154 --> 14:52.843 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob then risked his business and reputation to call the police to report what he had seen. 14:52.863 --> 14:57.330 [SPEAKER_02]: He was also able to provide information about what he knew of Shelley's activities. 14:57.851 --> 14:59.514 [SPEAKER_02]: He gave a description of the tow truck. 14:59.554 --> 15:04.483 [SPEAKER_02]: He had seen Shelley sitting in and detailed how he sought that truck for two hours. 15:04.463 --> 15:11.751 [SPEAKER_02]: As for his coming forward Bob said, quote, many professional men would think I'm stupid to come forward, but a girl is dead. 15:12.171 --> 15:15.415 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt an obligation to society and a personal one to her. 15:15.915 --> 15:23.684 [SPEAKER_02]: If police and attorneys were more considerate about protecting people from bad publicity when they came forward, more of it would be done. 15:24.285 --> 15:29.290 [SPEAKER_02]: The legal teams and Darrell all agreed that Bob's information should remain private. 15:29.270 --> 15:34.319 [SPEAKER_02]: Darrell said, quote, he cared enough about my daughter to put his 20 years in business on the line. 15:34.761 --> 15:36.833 [SPEAKER_02]: If I get a chance, I'm going to thank him. 15:37.387 --> 15:42.574 [SPEAKER_02]: The details Bob provided about the truck led the police to Gerlock towing in North Portland. 15:43.095 --> 15:53.670 [SPEAKER_02]: Cross-referencing the information provided by Bob and the information about the company's drivers provided by Tim, the owner of the company, led detectives to Dennis Dean Kirsting. 15:54.271 --> 16:05.166 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis had been an employee for three years and he was a known avid knife collector who went 16:05.247 --> 16:18.302 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about the large so much is like, um, not a ton of neck going on, and not that he's a big Frankenstein man, but more just like, lurch, you know, does that make sense? 16:19.304 --> 16:19.664 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, fish. 16:20.265 --> 16:20.525 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 16:21.066 --> 16:21.506 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, girish. 16:21.947 --> 16:25.371 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like if if this happened 40 years later, he might be shrek. 16:25.651 --> 16:27.714 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say, are we talking in evil shrek here? 16:27.734 --> 16:28.114 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:28.134 --> 16:28.695 [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay. 16:28.775 --> 16:28.875 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 16:30.256 --> 16:37.183 [SPEAKER_02]: Processing the trucked in as had been assigned to, small amounts of dried blood and a piece of rope with blood on it were found. 16:37.763 --> 16:43.729 [SPEAKER_02]: Closer inspection, including a vacuum sweep of the truck, found fibers that matched those from Shelley's sweater. 16:44.250 --> 16:47.193 [SPEAKER_02]: The rope was also a match for the kind found with her body. 16:47.793 --> 16:51.257 [SPEAKER_02]: Luminol lit the cab up like a velvet painting under black light. 16:51.737 --> 16:56.382 [SPEAKER_02]: It indicated there had been a large amount of blood on the seats bottom and back. 16:56.362 --> 17:01.793 [SPEAKER_02]: All of this potential evidence led to 31-year-old Dennis being brought in for questioning on November 29. 17:02.695 --> 17:09.449 [SPEAKER_02]: Knowing Dennis was a knife collector, detective searched him before they started talking, and recovered five pocket knives on him. 17:09.690 --> 17:11.133 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of pocket knives. 17:11.474 --> 17:13.999 [SPEAKER_02]: Especially when people think you stab somebody. 17:14.570 --> 17:16.272 [SPEAKER_02]: may be leave him at home for a day. 17:16.333 --> 17:21.540 [SPEAKER_02]: When questioning began, Dennis denied knowing Shelley or knowing about her murder. 17:21.941 --> 17:27.268 [SPEAKER_02]: His alibi was that on the night she was killed, he had left his house around 12.30 a.m. to buy a soda. 17:27.809 --> 17:34.018 [SPEAKER_02]: On his way back home from the apparently very far away convenience store, he swung by two of his friends' homes. 17:34.679 --> 17:40.527 [SPEAKER_02]: No one was there, or perhaps they just didn't want to talk to an unexpected guest at one in the morning. 17:40.507 --> 17:49.898 [SPEAKER_02]: Still bored, he said that he went to a restaurant at 9th and Burnside, locals this would be the area that was dug for lounge, the back of the day it was a denies. 17:50.699 --> 17:52.561 [SPEAKER_02]: Dynaston go inside to eat or anything though. 17:53.101 --> 17:57.566 [SPEAKER_02]: He told police that he stayed seated in his parked truck and was simply people watching. 17:58.227 --> 18:05.215 [SPEAKER_02]: Getting bored with that, he drove home around 3am, which is the most ludicrous alibi. 18:05.195 --> 18:09.642 [SPEAKER_02]: No, oh, the middle of the night, no, I was not home sleeping and I certainly wasn't murdering this girl. 18:09.802 --> 18:15.210 [SPEAKER_02]: I just happened to be in the same area where she was spotted and I was just in my truck looking at people. 18:15.931 --> 18:16.692 [SPEAKER_02]: And he had a soda. 18:17.193 --> 18:18.735 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know if they ever found a soda. 18:19.076 --> 18:21.760 [SPEAKER_00]: This is on the west side or the east side. 18:22.421 --> 18:23.403 [SPEAKER_02]: This is on the east side. 18:23.543 --> 18:26.187 [SPEAKER_00]: But, but, but, but close in on ninth and five. 18:26.207 --> 18:32.957 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's been times that so he's saying he's over at ninth and 18:33.055 --> 18:34.578 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I feel like these denies. 18:34.598 --> 18:36.141 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we had a lot more back then. 18:36.662 --> 18:49.688 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not sure if the reports are mixing them up or I'm mixing them up or what's mixed up, but it sounds like She was at the Lloyd center denies over by holiday and he's claiming, oh, no, I was at the denies over on 9th and Burnside, which is not very far from there. 18:49.708 --> 18:50.911 [SPEAKER_00]: So not far away from that. 18:50.931 --> 18:54.017 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why it doesn't paint a picture of you being far. 18:53.997 --> 18:57.203 [SPEAKER_02]: But I do appreciate that that was Dennis's alibi. 18:57.223 --> 19:01.491 [SPEAKER_02]: He kind of put himself in the same area, but not exactly. 19:01.512 --> 19:05.599 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I was in my truck at 3 a.m. but not with her. 19:05.619 --> 19:10.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And he his reasoning for being outside was that he couldn't sleep. 19:10.602 --> 19:25.048 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he wanted to go get a soda, and then he went to his friend's house, and then he was bored so he went and people watched at Denny's like one does had to get a moon's over my hammy before five a.m. No, he didn't even go inside. 19:25.068 --> 19:27.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I need one. 19:27.663 --> 19:31.711 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis was released, but brought in the following day for additional questioning. 19:32.171 --> 19:38.643 [SPEAKER_02]: This time he admitted, oh, actually I did know Shelley, and I did see her at the restaurant. 19:39.124 --> 19:42.370 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and I did hire her for sexual services. 19:43.813 --> 19:46.498 [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy how a story can change so much in one day. 19:47.272 --> 19:53.526 [SPEAKER_02]: According to him, she agreed to his offer and got into his truck to complete the transaction. 19:53.586 --> 19:59.820 [SPEAKER_02]: He drove a few blocks away and he paid her two-fives and a ten-four-oral sex. 20:00.382 --> 20:05.854 [SPEAKER_02]: Twenty minutes later, he dropped her off two blocks from the restaurant and she walked away with shoes in her hand. 20:05.868 --> 20:07.250 [SPEAKER_00]: No, right? 20:07.451 --> 20:07.931 [SPEAKER_00]: No way. 20:07.991 --> 20:08.993 [SPEAKER_00]: The money, the money. 20:09.033 --> 20:09.975 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way, right? 20:10.055 --> 20:10.836 [SPEAKER_00]: She, she charged. 20:11.016 --> 20:12.539 [SPEAKER_02]: She, and she was in a car girl. 20:12.799 --> 20:12.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:13.280 --> 20:14.382 [SPEAKER_00]: That was Hinky immediately. 20:14.602 --> 20:15.083 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 20:15.784 --> 20:21.012 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not well versed enough in sex workers to know if people are that specific. 20:21.032 --> 20:23.256 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I'm sure they are as an any business. 20:24.157 --> 20:30.087 [SPEAKER_02]: So the whole idea of her being a car date with a random dude is like that, and it was not what she did. 20:30.067 --> 20:32.511 [SPEAKER_00]: did she have someone that was trafficking her? 20:32.972 --> 20:33.272 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:33.813 --> 20:36.698 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was also the one that coordinated those things. 20:36.718 --> 20:37.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 20:37.879 --> 20:38.080 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 20:38.641 --> 20:44.470 [SPEAKER_02]: So she's not just happening to be hanging out at the denies, which was one of her places. 20:44.530 --> 20:48.737 [SPEAKER_02]: And this dude shows up and is like, hey, and no, yeah, no problem. 20:49.398 --> 20:52.142 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it did not fit her MO whatsoever. 20:53.506 --> 21:02.800 [SPEAKER_02]: When asked about the damning evidence found inside the truck, Dennis said that he hadn't cleaned the inside for at least six months, and that the outside had been washed the week before. 21:02.840 --> 21:11.553 [SPEAKER_02]: On January 26th, 1979, Dennis Dean Kirsting was arrested and indicted by a grand jury for the murder of Shelley Sabo. 21:12.034 --> 21:13.136 [SPEAKER_02]: He was held without bail. 21:13.496 --> 21:19.345 [SPEAKER_02]: He pleaded not guilty three days later, and he would have to wait until March for his trial to begin. 21:19.325 --> 21:37.650 [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't relevant to the trial, but it was quite upsetting that in every single article and in some of the headlines that referenced this case, they just had to mention that Shelley, the murdered teenager, had been arrested for prostitution six days before her murder. 21:37.670 --> 21:46.682 [SPEAKER_02]: Or the headline read, prostitute killer caught, or prostitute murder being investigated. 21:47.708 --> 21:48.129 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing. 21:49.172 --> 21:51.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hate that. 21:51.096 --> 21:51.899 [SPEAKER_00]: Cells papers. 21:53.202 --> 21:58.495 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess. 22:00.365 --> 22:07.716 [SPEAKER_02]: If you've ever visited our blog at murder-in-the-rain.com, you have seen that most of our sources come from newspapers.com. 22:08.257 --> 22:13.926 [SPEAKER_02]: Newspapers.com is an invaluable tool that isn't just for true-crime podcasters like us. 22:14.467 --> 22:21.698 [SPEAKER_02]: Newspapers.com offers newspapers from across the country going all the way back to the 1600s. 22:21.678 --> 22:29.537 [SPEAKER_02]: If you have even a slight curiosity in true crime, history, or mysteries, you have to check out newspapers.com. 22:29.557 --> 22:33.607 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't take much to start down a rabbit hole utilizing their search tools and filters. 22:34.049 --> 22:37.898 [SPEAKER_02]: It's easy to find research materials and it's a lot of fun. 22:37.878 --> 22:53.796 [SPEAKER_02]: Because of the vast archive of articles and papers to choose from everyone from podcast hosts, to students, to arm-shared detectives, can explore information, verify facts, and find hidden histories, and you'll also be pleasantly surprised by the breadth of knowledge you can gather. 22:54.376 --> 23:05.168 [SPEAKER_02]: Whether you're exploring the Black Dahlia, your own family history, or the movie listings from the 90s, you'll be delightfully overwhelmed with the fun facts that you will find at newspapers.com. 23:05.148 --> 23:16.040 [SPEAKER_02]: To get started on your own newspapers dot com journey go to newspapers dot com slash crime when you sign up use discount code murder in the rain to get 20% off. 23:16.480 --> 23:25.150 [SPEAKER_02]: We dare you to sign up look up a date a location a famous crime or a person and just try to not spiral for the rest of the day. 23:25.590 --> 23:30.936 [SPEAKER_02]: That's newspapers dot com slash crime using discount code murder in the rain. 23:35.084 --> 23:39.936 [SPEAKER_02]: The trial was pushed from March to May when it finally got started the state presented its case. 23:40.337 --> 23:48.958 [SPEAKER_02]: They showed the connection between Dennis as a customer that he was in the area at the time of Shelley's murder and it all matched Bob's eyewitness account. 23:49.310 --> 23:53.576 [SPEAKER_02]: The state had not just actual, but strong evidence against Dennis. 23:54.056 --> 23:57.080 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis' defense had Dennis' own testimony. 23:57.100 --> 24:02.247 [SPEAKER_02]: Taking the stand in his own defense, there were several issues with his honesty. 24:02.287 --> 24:17.528 [SPEAKER_02]: For example, Dennis testified that in order to get paid from work, he had to clean out the cab of his truck every Friday, and he denied having told the officers that he hadn't cleaned it for months. 24:17.508 --> 24:20.331 [SPEAKER_02]: he claimed to have paid Shelley with $5 bills. 24:20.351 --> 24:24.695 [SPEAKER_02]: $47 were found on Shelley, but no fives. 24:25.516 --> 24:30.321 [SPEAKER_02]: The night the truck was spotted, it was seen less than a mile from where Shelley's body would later be recovered. 24:30.902 --> 24:37.048 [SPEAKER_02]: The stab wounds to Shelley's body were consistent with a strong, doubly incised blade about one inch wide. 24:37.548 --> 24:44.275 [SPEAKER_02]: A newspaper report stated that she had wounds that were 24:44.255 --> 24:48.159 [SPEAKER_02]: since a court document said no injury was deeper than seven inches. 24:48.880 --> 24:53.825 [SPEAKER_02]: Details in the wounds led officials to decide the weapon was a Mark II survival knife. 24:54.046 --> 24:55.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Was she petite? 24:55.347 --> 25:00.693 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe so, but I only have like shoulder up photos. 25:00.973 --> 25:02.595 [SPEAKER_00]: How long was the blade did they say how long it was? 25:03.176 --> 25:09.182 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they said no injury was more than seven inches, but they didn't say on the Mark II survival, what that is. 25:09.314 --> 25:14.562 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, survival knife to me means pretty big like a combat knife, like a kind of a rainbow knife, maybe. 25:14.582 --> 25:15.003 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. 25:15.023 --> 25:16.866 [SPEAKER_00]: It might be a big a big knife. 25:16.886 --> 25:17.647 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a mark, too. 25:17.808 --> 25:18.088 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:18.489 --> 25:19.751 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it looks like what they're talking about. 25:19.771 --> 25:22.535 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like a, it says, yeah, it's a fighting knife. 25:22.575 --> 25:29.567 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a long sort of like a rainbow knife, but without the serrated kind of saw edge, I think, okay. 25:29.727 --> 25:30.388 [SPEAKER_00]: On the end. 25:30.408 --> 25:34.174 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a big big knife that could have that could have gone through a body. 25:34.238 --> 25:35.200 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of amazing. 25:35.260 --> 25:36.524 [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't a spoiler. 25:37.125 --> 25:43.942 [SPEAKER_02]: The blood being found in the car and then her feet showing she was dragged kind of amazing there weren't stop marks in the car. 25:44.543 --> 25:46.628 [SPEAKER_02]: If he stabbed her 15 to 20 times. 25:46.810 --> 25:48.412 [SPEAKER_00]: and jets of blood. 25:48.472 --> 25:48.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:49.033 --> 25:49.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you made? 25:49.914 --> 25:53.278 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, just that he didn't miss and hit the oh, the a poultry. 25:53.298 --> 25:53.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:53.939 --> 25:54.720 [SPEAKER_00]: Do they think it happened? 25:54.740 --> 25:56.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Did he say it happened in the truck? 25:56.882 --> 25:58.504 [SPEAKER_02]: That's never actually touched on. 25:58.544 --> 26:04.472 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just presumed because of the amount of blood that was shown to have been there and that she was dragged. 26:05.273 --> 26:08.717 [SPEAKER_02]: So it could have also just been an initial blow, suppose. 26:08.697 --> 26:10.380 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for looking into that knife. 26:11.301 --> 26:12.884 [SPEAKER_02]: Josh's knife corner. 26:13.044 --> 26:13.865 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'd swing. 26:14.426 --> 26:16.970 [SPEAKER_00]: I do like knives, but not like that. 26:16.990 --> 26:17.531 [SPEAKER_00]: Not like that. 26:18.492 --> 26:23.140 [SPEAKER_02]: At trial, a knife seller testified he had sold a Mark II knife to Dennis. 26:23.721 --> 26:24.482 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my bad. 26:24.822 --> 26:27.346 [SPEAKER_02]: He had sold Dennis two of those knives. 26:27.827 --> 26:29.209 [SPEAKER_02]: Only one was ever recovered. 26:29.730 --> 26:34.097 [SPEAKER_02]: At least 12 additional knives were discovered in Dennis's home. 26:34.718 --> 26:41.064 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis testified he had lied to the police about Shelley having been in his truck saying quote I kept denying it. 26:41.205 --> 26:43.727 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want my wife to find out or my boss. 26:44.107 --> 26:45.369 [SPEAKER_02]: I would have lost my job. 26:45.909 --> 26:48.852 [SPEAKER_02]: His lawyer asked if he had been nervous while being questioned. 26:48.992 --> 26:52.556 [SPEAKER_02]: He responded, I hope to kiss a duck I was. 26:52.576 --> 26:56.280 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, golly G-shucks. 26:58.142 --> 27:01.485 [SPEAKER_00]: He was just nervous as why he lied to the cops. 27:01.600 --> 27:02.842 [SPEAKER_02]: Heckety ding dong. 27:02.982 --> 27:05.967 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's like, if I'm, if I'm lying, I got to go kiss a duck. 27:06.328 --> 27:06.609 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 27:06.789 --> 27:08.231 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's, that means, yes. 27:08.472 --> 27:13.580 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's just such bullshit to me of like, oh, hey, come, just a tow truck, man. 27:13.620 --> 27:15.844 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know nothing about no girl. 27:15.944 --> 27:18.068 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just scared being questioned. 27:18.709 --> 27:20.472 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope to kiss a duck, I was. 27:20.492 --> 27:21.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Was he from the South? 27:21.614 --> 27:21.994 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 27:24.758 --> 27:30.966 [SPEAKER_02]: The state brought in an expert to testify that the hairs found on Shelly were indistinguishable from hair taken from Dennis. 27:31.447 --> 27:37.895 [SPEAKER_02]: The defense argued Dennis's hair should have been on Shelly as he did admit to having sexual relations with her earlier in the night. 27:38.456 --> 27:47.588 [SPEAKER_02]: So the hair samples also we are pre DNA and they were indistinguishable from him, but he's like, yeah, I already said we had a relationship. 27:47.838 --> 27:48.319 [SPEAKER_02]: kind of mood. 27:49.340 --> 27:52.305 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis took issue with the photo of Shelley being shown to the jury. 27:52.665 --> 27:57.612 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the photo was exactly, but it sounds like it was of Shelley looking happy and lovely. 27:57.673 --> 28:07.467 [SPEAKER_02]: The state wanted to show that she was a beautiful young woman and not what a jury in 1979 would automatically picture when talking about a quote prostitute. 28:07.447 --> 28:11.053 [SPEAKER_02]: This was also to counter Dennis's story about the car date. 28:11.474 --> 28:13.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Shelly was considered a high-class woman. 28:13.978 --> 28:16.602 [SPEAKER_02]: She had higher rates and classier clients. 28:17.023 --> 28:18.265 [SPEAKER_02]: She worked out of motels. 28:18.826 --> 28:26.979 [SPEAKER_02]: With a clear motive, the state painted a picture of a beautiful teenager who was too expensive and picky to go with Dennis when he tried to pick her up. 28:27.420 --> 28:30.585 [SPEAKER_02]: Thus sending him into a homicidal rage. 28:30.565 --> 28:35.074 [SPEAKER_02]: Presumably recorded while he was being held in jail, a phone call was played in court. 28:35.636 --> 28:41.548 [SPEAKER_02]: In that call, Dennis was discussing his knife collection and said he was, quote, very proud of my knives. 28:41.929 --> 28:43.532 [SPEAKER_02]: I have some really weird knives. 28:43.913 --> 28:45.977 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not running for something I didn't do. 28:45.997 --> 28:49.384 [SPEAKER_02]: I believe he was trying to say from something I didn't do. 28:49.364 --> 28:50.626 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't prove it. 28:50.706 --> 28:51.668 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the whole trouble. 28:51.888 --> 28:53.350 [SPEAKER_02]: They can't prove anything either. 28:53.390 --> 28:58.838 [SPEAKER_02]: The knife they're looking for is when I gave away a year ago I gave it away because it was too big. 28:59.159 --> 29:01.142 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what they're digging for the big knife. 29:01.543 --> 29:03.005 [SPEAKER_02]: That one there would have done it. 29:03.245 --> 29:07.812 [SPEAKER_02]: The rest of my knives are too short They're looking for a big knife, which I don't own 29:08.669 --> 29:11.996 [SPEAKER_02]: The first witness for the defense was Carol Kirsting, Dennis' wife. 29:12.517 --> 29:15.322 [SPEAKER_02]: She was countering the state's argument about the blood in the truck. 29:15.823 --> 29:21.074 [SPEAKER_02]: According to the state and lumenal testing, the passenger seat had at one point been covered in blood. 29:21.595 --> 29:27.066 [SPEAKER_02]: When they processed the seat, though, only tiny flecks of blood were recovered from the webbing of fabric. 29:27.046 --> 29:28.608 [SPEAKER_02]: There was also blood on the rope. 29:29.229 --> 29:37.660 [SPEAKER_02]: All of the blood was tested, but it was consumed during that process, meaning they were unable to test it further for matches to Dennis, Carol, or Shelley. 29:38.261 --> 29:45.290 [SPEAKER_02]: But again, this was still the 1970s, so it would only have gone so far, basically to match blood type, not DNA. 29:46.471 --> 29:55.483 [SPEAKER_02]: Carol claimed that the night before the murder, she and Dennis had taken the truck to visit family, and this is really actually quite difficult 29:56.155 --> 30:01.024 [SPEAKER_02]: On the right home, she claims that she had started an unusually heavy period. 30:02.127 --> 30:09.200 [SPEAKER_02]: During Cross Examination, she admitted that she hadn't told anyone about this incident until a month after Dennis was charged. 30:09.561 --> 30:10.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Is spouse the same this? 30:10.803 --> 30:11.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 30:11.685 --> 30:12.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Please, lady. 30:12.963 --> 30:15.125 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I've had some heavy periods. 30:15.145 --> 30:16.407 [SPEAKER_02]: I've had to go with the doctor. 30:16.467 --> 30:21.252 [SPEAKER_02]: I've had to be taken home because I was passing out because of the amount of blood. 30:21.272 --> 30:36.069 [SPEAKER_02]: And even in a car with the heaviest period, I could imagine it would not have gotten onto the back seat of the seat or covered the entire bottom or seeped into the webbing between the portions of the seat. 30:36.970 --> 30:38.532 [SPEAKER_02]: What even is that defense? 30:38.562 --> 30:58.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Just hoping the lawyers, the male people in the courtroom will be like, okay, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right 30:58.778 --> 30:59.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Just comes out of there. 30:59.339 --> 30:59.820 [SPEAKER_00]: It's some lining, right? 30:59.840 --> 31:16.720 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so you're saying that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we're the ones that we 31:17.408 --> 31:26.121 [SPEAKER_02]: Another grasp at bloody straws was the other possible source of blood, a young boy who had been in a car accident in July of 1978. 31:27.383 --> 31:33.432 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis supposedly came upon the scene and put the boy in his truck bleeding nose and all. 31:34.073 --> 31:35.094 [SPEAKER_00]: I can speak from this. 31:35.555 --> 31:37.338 [SPEAKER_00]: I am a nose bleed boy. 31:37.358 --> 31:41.143 [SPEAKER_00]: At least I was when I was a boy up until my 30s pretty fun. 31:41.324 --> 31:41.524 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 31:41.704 --> 31:45.610 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've had some horrendous nonstoppers. 31:45.590 --> 31:49.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Never in my life has it been more than a tiny amount of water really. 31:50.035 --> 31:51.858 [SPEAKER_02]: How would it get on the seat behind you? 31:52.639 --> 31:56.303 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you using the seat to stop the nose bleed and it's a trial? 31:56.363 --> 32:07.497 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've also dealt with some Enraged children's nosebleeds and they can No, unfortunately I didn't get to experience your nosebleeds 32:08.303 --> 32:25.198 [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously both the prosecution and the defense had experts in blood and they all agreed that the blood all over the seat and back of the seat could not have come from just a menstrual cycle blood had also been found on the passengers window weather stripping. 32:25.178 --> 32:31.870 [SPEAKER_02]: The enzyme typing had been completed on the blood and it showed that that blood was not any older than a few weeks. 32:32.431 --> 32:40.445 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, if the blood had come from the kid with the nose bleed, the previous summer, the blood would have been aged out and the testing would not have worked at all. 32:41.387 --> 32:45.955 [SPEAKER_02]: So multiple validations of no my guy. 32:45.935 --> 32:51.701 [SPEAKER_02]: The blood type was a match for Shelley's rare blood type, which only 5.6% of the population has. 32:52.241 --> 32:57.927 [SPEAKER_02]: There was no information on the mysterious car accident kids, so his blood could not be tested against the sample. 32:59.008 --> 33:03.973 [SPEAKER_02]: Carol also testified that Dennis left the house at 11pm on the night in question. 33:04.594 --> 33:06.636 [SPEAKER_02]: She knew you're going to love this. 33:07.257 --> 33:12.702 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, poor Carol, I can only imagine with 33:12.918 --> 33:16.083 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Dennis left around 11, supposedly to get the soda. 33:16.825 --> 33:27.243 [SPEAKER_02]: She says, she knows he was back by 3.19am as she referenced the movie that was on the television at the time, which was confirmed by a program director. 33:27.363 --> 33:29.186 [SPEAKER_02]: So she said, hey, this movie was on. 33:29.647 --> 33:32.091 [SPEAKER_02]: And they found someone that's like, yeah, that's what was on. 33:32.712 --> 33:40.481 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I don't really know that her being able to say what was on TV proves that Dennis came home at that time. 33:41.182 --> 33:45.648 [SPEAKER_02]: It's also a bit hinky as Bob Sasheli in the truck at 310 AM. 33:46.228 --> 33:48.932 [SPEAKER_02]: It's all very convenient timing, is all I'll say. 33:49.512 --> 33:54.719 [SPEAKER_02]: This TV thing was another tidbit Carol did not share with anyone until after Dennis was charged. 33:55.039 --> 33:55.800 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the movie? 33:56.270 --> 33:58.515 [SPEAKER_02]: They did not say, oh, I know. 33:58.535 --> 33:58.635 [SPEAKER_02]: What? 33:58.695 --> 34:03.787 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll hear going to have to have to have to know what movie it is. 34:03.867 --> 34:04.709 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you crazy? 34:04.869 --> 34:09.199 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a little annoyed you didn't do that for me as a little gift. 34:09.365 --> 34:10.547 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know. 34:10.567 --> 34:11.669 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even think about it. 34:11.849 --> 34:12.790 [SPEAKER_00]: It was at three. 34:12.830 --> 34:15.535 [SPEAKER_00]: It could have been like a crazy ABC movie. 34:15.555 --> 34:16.316 [SPEAKER_00]: Late night movie. 34:16.376 --> 34:18.699 [SPEAKER_00]: I which I've done a little bit of research on. 34:18.920 --> 34:19.220 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 34:19.240 --> 34:21.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's actually have a list of all of those. 34:21.764 --> 34:22.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways. 34:22.646 --> 34:24.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I promise you my dear husband. 34:24.649 --> 34:25.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can add it too. 34:25.911 --> 34:26.091 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 34:27.072 --> 34:28.475 [SPEAKER_02]: Our next episode is an update. 34:29.396 --> 34:30.838 [SPEAKER_02]: I will dig in. 34:30.858 --> 34:33.042 [SPEAKER_02]: I will see if anything mentions the movie. 34:33.602 --> 34:34.744 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll find what movie it was. 34:34.824 --> 34:36.587 [SPEAKER_02]: And I will have that for you in the update. 34:37.782 --> 35:06.270 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to know I'm sorry I'm sorry I didn't dig deeper but also how hilarious is that oh he wasn't out killing anyone because I was watching body statures at three fifty yeah he's like it was exactly the scene where like what does that prove her Donald Sutherland makes the well what's her name stir fry but like how does that prove he was 35:06.875 --> 35:13.889 [SPEAKER_02]: That proves you were probably not sleeping because you knew he was out probably soliciting a woman and you were up watching TV. 35:13.929 --> 35:17.256 [SPEAKER_02]: And he came home a little while after that. 35:17.276 --> 35:19.280 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so silly. 35:20.563 --> 35:24.411 [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't know what's going on her period is exploding out of her body. 35:24.745 --> 35:27.371 [SPEAKER_02]: The defense also called Jim Dennis's friend. 35:27.912 --> 35:32.042 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis had called Jim admitting he had lied about Shelley having been in the truck. 35:32.503 --> 35:36.111 [SPEAKER_02]: Concerned Jim asked what else was in the truck that could be an issue. 35:36.593 --> 35:40.662 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis responded something along the lines of he had gotten rid of it. 35:41.620 --> 35:45.669 [SPEAKER_02]: During the trial this conversation was held without the jury present. 35:45.689 --> 35:55.951 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis argued that not only was this a private phone call, so he shouldn't be talking about it, but Jim couldn't recall exactly what had been said, so how could it be used as testimony? 35:56.612 --> 36:01.823 [SPEAKER_02]: The testimony was allowed and the jury returned to hear Jim say this. 36:01.803 --> 36:05.989 [SPEAKER_02]: quote, I got a little uptight when he told me that she had been in the truck. 36:06.330 --> 36:09.875 [SPEAKER_02]: So I countered with, well, just what else are they going to come up with? 36:10.296 --> 36:18.048 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said nothing or he didn't think they'd come up with anything else or it was all gone gotten rid of or something along those lines. 36:18.489 --> 36:20.632 [SPEAKER_02]: He said there was no more evidence to come about. 36:20.953 --> 36:22.495 [SPEAKER_02]: There wasn't any to be had. 36:23.639 --> 36:29.687 [SPEAKER_02]: Because of Jim's memory issue, the jury was given special instructions regarding the gist of what was said. 36:30.227 --> 36:38.598 [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, they were like, you can believe him, but it's clear he doesn't remember the exact wording, so kind of take it with a grain of salt. 36:38.618 --> 36:51.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Tim, Dennis' boss at the toe company testified that, out of curiosity, he had placed a newspaper on his desk and asked Dennis to come into his office. 36:51.955 --> 36:55.586 [SPEAKER_02]: Tim knew Dennis was a literate, but he wanted to see his reaction. 36:56.247 --> 37:03.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Tim told the court that Dennis, quote, glance at it, the paper, and asked if I was through with it and picked it up and put it away. 37:04.211 --> 37:06.758 [SPEAKER_02]: He had a startled shocked expression. 37:07.278 --> 37:18.670 [SPEAKER_02]: which I was kind of surprised they allowed that because the boss laying the paper out just to get a reaction, that's just his total inference of what he thinks that responses. 37:19.331 --> 37:21.112 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was kind of surprised I got let through. 37:21.593 --> 37:23.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I do like that the boss did that. 37:23.134 --> 37:23.575 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 37:23.595 --> 37:24.956 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to mess with him a little bit. 37:24.976 --> 37:26.798 [SPEAKER_02]: You could tell he's like this son of a bitch. 37:26.838 --> 37:29.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, he's he's messing up my business. 37:29.601 --> 37:33.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, legally stealing people's cars. 37:34.666 --> 37:39.850 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I do like he laid this little trap for him like I'll make sure there's a picture because this son of bitch can't read 37:41.163 --> 37:44.947 [SPEAKER_02]: On Thursday, May 17, 1979, the case was settled. 37:45.167 --> 37:51.293 [SPEAKER_02]: The state gave an intense two and a half hour closing argument, saying, quote, why did he do it? 37:51.593 --> 37:53.595 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a quiet man with family problems. 37:53.695 --> 37:54.496 [SPEAKER_02]: No sex life. 37:54.816 --> 37:56.678 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he's ever had a pretty lady? 37:57.018 --> 37:58.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he could buy a pretty lady? 37:59.220 --> 38:00.962 [SPEAKER_02]: What if Shelley Sabo said no? 38:01.322 --> 38:02.964 [SPEAKER_02]: That she didn't do tricks in cars. 38:03.364 --> 38:04.305 [SPEAKER_02]: But he wanted her. 38:04.705 --> 38:05.526 [SPEAKER_02]: Had to have her. 38:06.006 --> 38:08.689 [SPEAKER_02]: A knife freak that had to have the pretty girl. 38:08.669 --> 38:12.073 [SPEAKER_02]: Ask yourself, did Shelley Sabo scream that night? 38:12.513 --> 38:13.714 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it a muffled scream? 38:14.455 --> 38:22.423 [SPEAKER_02]: If you return the verdict of not guilty, there will be another silent scream from the grave of Shelley Sabo that only you will hear. 38:22.484 --> 38:25.206 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good instruction. 38:25.947 --> 38:26.968 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to remind them. 38:27.289 --> 38:27.549 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. 38:27.769 --> 38:30.272 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't make a dead woman scream, please. 38:30.772 --> 38:31.373 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like that. 38:31.393 --> 38:31.974 [SPEAKER_00]: She's suffered. 38:32.294 --> 38:32.754 [SPEAKER_00]: She died. 38:32.794 --> 38:34.356 [SPEAKER_02]: The threat of haunting. 38:35.534 --> 38:40.205 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis Dean Kirsting was found guilty of murder after four hours of jury deliberation. 38:40.686 --> 38:43.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Carol and other members of Dennis' family broke out in sobs. 38:44.515 --> 38:51.691 [SPEAKER_02]: As the crime was committed in November and the death penalty wasn't put into effect until December, Dennis would not be given a seat in the electric chair. 38:52.132 --> 38:54.758 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead, he was sentenced to life in prison. 38:55.160 --> 39:02.392 [SPEAKER_02]: For a little bit of background on Dennis, he had been arrested in 1969 when he was 22 for a burglary out in Sandy Oregon. 39:02.893 --> 39:05.837 [SPEAKER_02]: He was charged with receiving and concealing stolen property. 39:06.258 --> 39:19.159 [SPEAKER_02]: For those charges, Dennis was sentenced to seven years and had his parole revoked, not sure of the circumstances surrounding the prior parole, but it appeared to be connected to a similar charge of burglary or stolen property. 39:19.949 --> 39:23.335 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis filed several appeals after he was found guilty for the murder. 39:23.475 --> 39:26.660 [SPEAKER_02]: They were denied in 81, 82, 87, and 92. 39:26.841 --> 39:31.128 [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't find documents detailing what happened next. 39:31.268 --> 39:33.612 [SPEAKER_02]: Be it an appeal or a shitty parole board. 39:34.173 --> 39:41.586 [SPEAKER_02]: But Denestine Kirsting was released from his life sentence after serving how many years Josh 23. 39:42.072 --> 39:45.517 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you sweet, sweet boy, 15 years. 39:46.298 --> 39:47.499 [SPEAKER_02]: But he was alive. 39:47.940 --> 39:48.641 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not life. 39:48.941 --> 39:49.602 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not life. 39:49.943 --> 39:50.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're alive when you leave. 39:51.725 --> 39:53.387 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't be alive when you leave if it's life. 39:54.128 --> 39:54.869 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I always say. 39:54.909 --> 39:56.431 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what happened to him? 39:56.752 --> 40:03.321 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad you asked, because thankfully Dennis learned his lesson and was grateful for the extra time he would get to live on the outside. 40:03.761 --> 40:06.124 [SPEAKER_02]: And he worked to make the world a better place. 40:07.186 --> 40:07.967 [SPEAKER_02]: Just kidding. 40:08.187 --> 40:08.728 [SPEAKER_02]: Steak. 40:09.369 --> 40:11.151 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do here? 40:11.131 --> 40:15.735 [SPEAKER_02]: His post-prison issues began about five years after he was released in 1994. 40:16.336 --> 40:23.142 [SPEAKER_02]: First, they were simple mistakes, failure to use a signal in 99, speeding multiple times through 2000, 2005 and 2021. 40:23.162 --> 40:34.392 [SPEAKER_02]: In either 2021 or 2022, Dennis was busted for being a felon in possession of a firearm and was sentenced to some amount of time in prison. 40:34.452 --> 40:41.138 [SPEAKER_02]: He was on probation for that firearms violation in 2022 when he was arrested yet again. 40:41.118 --> 40:45.605 [SPEAKER_02]: On this occasion, Dennis had offered a coworker money in exchange for sex. 40:46.126 --> 40:48.610 [SPEAKER_02]: She agreed and they went to his home to close the deal. 40:49.191 --> 40:52.236 [SPEAKER_02]: During the interaction, Dennis began to strangle the woman. 40:52.757 --> 40:58.627 [SPEAKER_02]: Fighting for her life, she was eventually able to free herself from his grip, terrified she ran out of his front door. 40:59.248 --> 41:05.438 [SPEAKER_02]: When she called for help, Dennis was arrested and charged with strangulation and commercial sexual exploitation. 41:05.570 --> 41:11.783 [SPEAKER_02]: Thankfully that attempted murder was the last straw and he was put away for good, just kidding. 41:11.823 --> 41:12.364 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on now. 41:13.386 --> 41:22.144 [SPEAKER_02]: As with the firearm charge, I'm not sure how long Dennis was behind bars after strangling the woman, but it was not very long. 41:22.411 --> 41:37.433 [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, out on probation for both of those convictions, a violent stabbing murder of a teenager and an attempted strangulation of a co-worker, 78-year-old Dennis was again arrested in July of 2025. 41:37.413 --> 41:39.558 [SPEAKER_02]: out, probably looking for trouble. 41:39.879 --> 41:43.006 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis was driving on southeast 82nd Avenue in Portland. 41:43.547 --> 41:51.064 [SPEAKER_02]: For those who aren't familiar, that has been the well-known location for a variety of less than legal activities, especially sex work. 41:51.665 --> 41:54.291 [SPEAKER_02]: Ever since I was a kid, and probably before that. 41:54.271 --> 41:58.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis was most likely also aware of this as he crews the street. 41:58.875 --> 42:08.103 [SPEAKER_02]: Coming upon a 41-year-old house this woman Dennis offered her a ride to his home in Sandy about 20-mile southeast where she could shower and he would get her pizza. 42:08.924 --> 42:12.647 [SPEAKER_02]: The woman couldn't refuse such a helpful offer so she went with him. 42:13.268 --> 42:22.236 [SPEAKER_02]: As she exited the shower at his home, she realized he had taken her clothes and hidden them. 42:22.216 --> 42:24.500 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis then raped the woman multiple times. 42:24.920 --> 42:29.107 [SPEAKER_02]: When he took a break from torturing her, she asked if she could go outside to have a cigarette. 42:29.548 --> 42:30.730 [SPEAKER_02]: He granted her request. 42:31.391 --> 42:39.965 [SPEAKER_02]: Seeing and seizing an opportunity the woman like his previous victim ran for her life down the street, she knocked on neighbor's doors and yelled for help. 42:40.466 --> 42:44.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Finally, a call was made to 911 reporting and naked woman running down the road. 42:45.571 --> 42:48.056 [SPEAKER_02]: Police arrived in the area and found the woman. 42:48.296 --> 42:53.205 [SPEAKER_02]: She directed them to Dennis's house, and thankfully, they arrived just in time to catch him leaving. 42:53.746 --> 42:55.529 [SPEAKER_02]: They pulled him over, he complied. 42:55.569 --> 42:57.553 [SPEAKER_02]: A knife was found on Dennis. 42:57.914 --> 43:00.158 [SPEAKER_02]: It was the one he had just stolen from the victim. 43:00.819 --> 43:03.023 [SPEAKER_02]: Dennis was arrested and charged. 43:03.003 --> 43:13.575 [SPEAKER_02]: Due to Dennis's probation and this being his third strike, he took a plea agreement, pleading guilty to the lesser charges of Sodomy in the first degree and sexual penetration in the first degree. 43:14.296 --> 43:16.458 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's another one of those weird timing things. 43:16.878 --> 43:19.521 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been working on this group of cases for quite a while. 43:20.022 --> 43:25.568 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know that Dennis had a hearing coming up regarding this case, and it would make his sentence official. 43:25.548 --> 43:31.339 [SPEAKER_02]: That hearing is scheduled by complete coincidence for the release date of this episode. 43:31.600 --> 43:33.063 [SPEAKER_02]: February 10th, 2026. 43:33.183 --> 43:42.020 [SPEAKER_02]: It has already been announced that Dennis will serve 116 months or 9.6 years without early release eligibility. 43:42.701 --> 43:46.729 [SPEAKER_02]: If anything interesting happens in this hearing, I will let you know in the update. 43:47.249 --> 43:55.177 [SPEAKER_02]: Thankfully, it only took at least three victims of this man for him to finally get another nine years in jail. 43:55.857 --> 43:58.100 [SPEAKER_02]: But it'll probably die because he's in a 70s now, so. 43:58.440 --> 44:01.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, yeah, he'll be a menace at any age. 44:01.683 --> 44:05.427 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a, it's time for him to turn out the lights. 44:06.027 --> 44:06.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 44:06.468 --> 44:07.529 [SPEAKER_00]: To just put your head down. 44:07.709 --> 44:08.150 [SPEAKER_00]: Just go sleep. 44:08.270 --> 44:09.811 [SPEAKER_02]: That goes back to that static 99. 44:10.252 --> 44:12.033 [SPEAKER_02]: This dude is in his 70s. 44:13.615 --> 44:15.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Just his danger. 44:16.527 --> 44:17.288 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe more so. 44:17.848 --> 44:24.355 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, someone who has strikes and someone that doesn't want to go to prison is a lot more likely to me to kill. 44:24.575 --> 44:25.196 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true. 44:25.956 --> 44:30.040 [SPEAKER_02]: And I read through the arguments and it was like, oh, we didn't like the picture. 44:30.121 --> 44:30.721 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, too bad. 44:30.741 --> 44:31.242 [SPEAKER_02]: That's fine. 44:31.262 --> 44:32.723 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we didn't like the hair that was used. 44:32.743 --> 44:33.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, too bad. 44:33.244 --> 44:36.367 [SPEAKER_02]: It's my I didn't see the one that was like, this is overturned. 44:36.907 --> 44:42.653 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't imagine what it was or why they couldn't change the charges. 44:42.633 --> 44:48.846 [SPEAKER_02]: at least get him on disposal of a body or lying to officers or something. 44:50.260 --> 45:00.755 [SPEAKER_02]: instead of 15 years for killing a teenager, violently in cold blood, unprovoked, stranger on stranger 15 years. 45:00.995 --> 45:04.420 [SPEAKER_02]: Not even as long as like a couple years of what her life was. 45:04.480 --> 45:04.761 [SPEAKER_00]: How was this? 45:04.781 --> 45:05.402 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, how old was she? 45:05.742 --> 45:09.708 [SPEAKER_02]: 19 19 and then to go, oh, well, oh, fell in with a gun. 45:09.788 --> 45:11.330 [SPEAKER_02]: We're always told, that's the big one. 45:11.370 --> 45:11.991 [SPEAKER_02]: Don't do that. 45:12.332 --> 45:12.692 [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing. 45:13.854 --> 45:20.183 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, don't strangle your co-worker. 45:21.445 --> 45:21.966 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:21.986 --> 45:24.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Go die in prison, man. 45:24.531 --> 45:24.811 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:25.492 --> 45:26.995 [SPEAKER_02]: Just so sick of these. 45:27.336 --> 45:30.181 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do they get the chance at your chance at your chance? 45:30.482 --> 45:32.445 [SPEAKER_02]: Why do the fucking lurches of the world? 45:32.485 --> 45:38.557 [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously this is a bigger picture frustration. 45:38.577 --> 45:41.462 [SPEAKER_02]: You can harm people especially children. 45:42.590 --> 45:44.212 [SPEAKER_02]: and there are no consequences. 45:45.154 --> 45:46.856 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what fires everybody up. 45:47.317 --> 45:57.311 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, besides doing it, obviously, I think the thing with it is, is these mistakes, these choices, the oopsie doodle we let you out. 45:57.331 --> 46:01.257 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only part of this that is controllable. 46:01.237 --> 46:02.720 [SPEAKER_02]: We couldn't have saved Shelley. 46:03.501 --> 46:04.844 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob tried to save her. 46:04.884 --> 46:12.098 [SPEAKER_02]: In ways, yes, if you want to be pedantic about it, yes, it was, we could have stopped it. 46:12.579 --> 46:16.647 [SPEAKER_02]: Big picture we couldn't have saved her, but we could keep him in prison. 46:16.627 --> 46:17.508 [SPEAKER_00]: pretty easily. 46:17.588 --> 46:20.892 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like a pretty easy thing to do and they did it. 46:21.353 --> 46:24.837 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they just, what is that about not sticking to that? 46:24.978 --> 46:25.478 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 46:25.518 --> 46:26.339 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 46:27.080 --> 46:30.685 [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's how, oh, could this travesty have been prevented? 46:30.965 --> 46:34.169 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for the next woman who was strangled, it could have been prevented. 46:34.209 --> 46:37.714 [SPEAKER_02]: And for those mother fuckers, I hope they're the ones hearing the screams at night. 46:38.395 --> 46:39.035 [SPEAKER_02]: Not the jury. 46:39.116 --> 46:40.477 [SPEAKER_02]: They get stuck in this position. 46:40.517 --> 46:44.963 [SPEAKER_02]: They have to do their best. 46:44.943 --> 46:55.517 [SPEAKER_02]: These motherfuckers, but sit on the board and whatever decisions they flippantly make, they are the ones that deserve to hear those screams, and deserve to be haunted. 46:55.998 --> 46:57.780 [SPEAKER_02]: How about they have to go live with you? 46:58.901 --> 46:59.723 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the agreement. 47:00.003 --> 47:01.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you gotta get a little tiny house. 47:01.945 --> 47:03.267 [SPEAKER_02]: No, they just have to live in your house. 47:03.287 --> 47:09.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, in your house, if you're that certain, because that did come up in the project, you're talking about that there was somebody saying, 47:09.547 --> 47:11.930 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I believe in them so much they could live in my house. 47:12.210 --> 47:12.771 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, then do it. 47:13.392 --> 47:15.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you let them live with your teenage daughter? 47:15.675 --> 47:16.295 [SPEAKER_02]: No, why not? 47:16.736 --> 47:18.238 [SPEAKER_00]: We gotta bring out the big stamp. 47:18.258 --> 47:20.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Says... Keep them, man. 47:29.332 --> 47:29.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Justice? 47:30.533 --> 47:30.753 [SPEAKER_02]: Who? 47:30.813 --> 47:32.035 [SPEAKER_02]: Never heard of her. 47:32.576 --> 47:33.316 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a fish. 47:35.980 --> 47:37.782 [SPEAKER_00]: Are my serenity fans? 47:39.601 --> 47:45.569 [SPEAKER_02]: Serenity, deep cut, laslo, sabo, laslo, sabo. 47:46.710 --> 47:49.775 [SPEAKER_00]: V, laslo, sabo, sabo. 47:49.855 --> 47:52.058 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the hottest designer in town. 47:52.338 --> 47:54.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a lasso, sasbrosh? 47:55.923 --> 47:58.386 [SPEAKER_02]: Bob Mackey. 47:59.311 --> 48:01.675 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's easy to imagine, imagine. 48:02.757 --> 48:05.863 [SPEAKER_02]: In Portland, the change didn't have the hoped for effect. 48:06.263 --> 48:08.668 [SPEAKER_02]: On, oh, read the whole sentence. 48:08.688 --> 48:11.052 [SPEAKER_00]: Is the four, are the four H's for hooves? 48:11.633 --> 48:14.518 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, front hoof, back hoof, left hoof, right hoof. 48:15.376 --> 48:17.138 [SPEAKER_02]: near Union Pacific Railroad. 48:17.919 --> 48:22.405 [SPEAKER_02]: I knew I was like, I didn't do that. 48:22.725 --> 48:26.090 [SPEAKER_02]: Union Pacific Railroad's Albina. 48:26.250 --> 48:28.232 [SPEAKER_02]: Check, check, check. 48:28.252 --> 48:29.674 [SPEAKER_02]: Union Pacific Railroad. 48:30.255 --> 48:33.399 [SPEAKER_02]: Union Pacific Railroad's Albina Yard. 48:33.799 --> 48:34.741 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it Albina? 48:37.124 --> 48:37.324 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 48:38.746 --> 48:40.908 [SPEAKER_02]: Union Pacific Railroad's Albina Yard. 48:41.569 --> 48:42.190 [SPEAKER_02]: Nope. 48:42.210 --> 48:44.573 [SPEAKER_02]: Albina. 48:46.443 --> 48:46.884 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, wait. 48:47.905 --> 48:49.127 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, which one do I need to say? 48:49.167 --> 48:50.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Albina. 48:50.168 --> 48:50.649 [SPEAKER_02]: Albina. 48:50.689 --> 48:51.109 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 48:51.971 --> 48:54.835 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure great notes take in. 48:55.215 --> 48:55.636 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes. 48:55.656 --> 48:59.181 [SPEAKER_00]: And the utmost care provided to this investigation. 48:59.401 --> 48:59.942 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes. 49:00.342 --> 49:01.323 [SPEAKER_02]: A young sex worker. 49:01.384 --> 49:02.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 49:02.906 --> 49:03.707 [SPEAKER_00]: Rally the troops. 49:05.109 --> 49:05.990 [SPEAKER_00]: Call the ladies. 49:06.571 --> 49:08.974 [SPEAKER_02]: Make sure we spell everything right in the report. 49:09.359 --> 49:10.220 [SPEAKER_00]: get the day right. 49:11.922 --> 49:13.043 [SPEAKER_02]: By the police department. 49:13.844 --> 49:14.746 [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, the what? 49:15.086 --> 49:15.927 [SPEAKER_00]: Please department. 49:17.289 --> 49:17.909 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a parma. 49:18.490 --> 49:20.733 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going more Creole. 49:21.013 --> 49:25.198 [SPEAKER_02]: Creole, I'm trying to solve it like a glass on you. 49:27.101 --> 49:28.663 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be more brawl. 49:30.264 --> 49:31.446 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll do that on Patreon. 49:32.027 --> 49:34.650 [SPEAKER_02]: Just do accents on the other cases. 49:35.631 --> 49:37.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Cajun justice. 49:38.688 --> 49:39.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, look at the whole. 49:39.829 --> 49:41.931 [SPEAKER_02]: Feels like I'm playing Carnegie Hall. 49:42.412 --> 49:43.493 [SPEAKER_02]: Carnegie Hall. 49:43.934 --> 49:45.235 [SPEAKER_02]: Carnegie Hall. 49:46.576 --> 49:47.517 [SPEAKER_02]: What am I supposed to do about this? 49:47.557 --> 49:49.099 [SPEAKER_02]: My period's exploding all over the place. 49:50.240 --> 49:53.123 [SPEAKER_02]: Tim called the tort. 49:53.143 --> 49:53.243 [SPEAKER_02]: Huh. 49:53.263 --> 49:53.924 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's Keision Justice. 49:54.865 --> 50:04.155 [SPEAKER_03]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 50:05.232 --> 50:25.333 [SPEAKER_01]: We move slow, but we get it right.