WEBVTT 00:05.836 --> 00:08.267 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 00:09.151 --> 00:14.918 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of tokens amazing world from the very beginning. 00:22.677 --> 00:34.488 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're reaching the end of the first chapter of the fellowship of the ring, and we're finally at a point where Frodo and Gandalf are having a conversation, specifically about the ring. 00:35.248 --> 00:51.823 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is an important moment, not only for the future of this story, but for the perspective of readers, specifically there's a difference here between those people who had read the very 00:51.803 --> 01:04.452 [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone else, because as we know, Tolkien went back and revised the Hobbit, and very specific scenes in the Hobbit, like the Riddle game, in order to make the ring more dangerous. 01:05.334 --> 01:09.103 [SPEAKER_01]: In line with what we know about it from the Lord of the Rings books. 01:09.083 --> 01:16.797 [SPEAKER_01]: And there are moments in this conversation that harken back to the two distinct different versions of that story. 01:17.458 --> 01:27.075 [SPEAKER_01]: And Tolkien finds a way to justify the revisions that were made and the reason why the story was different the first time around. 01:27.055 --> 01:33.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the shouldn't be a surprise, he often would go back and revise stories over and over and over again. 01:33.889 --> 01:46.735 [SPEAKER_01]: His legendary him is full of revisions, time and time again years later, especially to a lot of the classic stories in the 01:46.715 --> 01:48.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And so why would this be any different? 01:48.838 --> 01:51.863 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the difference here is that the Hobbit was published. 01:51.883 --> 01:56.751 [SPEAKER_01]: There's an audience of fans who know the story from one version of that story. 01:57.492 --> 02:06.025 [SPEAKER_01]: But he has to do something here in this chapter in order to bring them along with the revisions he has for the rest of the story. 02:06.686 --> 02:14.038 [SPEAKER_01]: And in order to do that, he has to explain somehow that Bilbo told the wrong story. 02:14.018 --> 02:31.740 [SPEAKER_01]: He justifies this as, in that earliest version of the Hobbit, what we are seeing is Bilbo's recounting of events in a way that would have made things more palatable, easier to digest, I guess you could say, or to understand and 02:31.720 --> 02:36.929 [SPEAKER_01]: was designed in a way to protect Bilbo, specifically when it comes to the ring. 02:37.509 --> 02:46.684 [SPEAKER_01]: The ring is a gift, it is a present, and it was gallum who followed the rules of the riddle game and gave it to him willingly. 02:47.105 --> 02:53.155 [SPEAKER_01]: The redacted version of the story is the more truthful telling of what actually happened. 02:53.135 --> 03:00.809 [SPEAKER_01]: The ring was already starting to corrupt him, and Gollum was already thoroughly corrupted. 03:00.869 --> 03:04.014 [SPEAKER_01]: He couldn't have given up the ring even if he wanted to. 03:04.074 --> 03:11.127 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, he becomes bloodthirsty and murderous, and Bilbo has to flee for his life. 03:11.107 --> 03:15.596 [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought I would present to you some differences in the text and there are considerable differences. 03:15.636 --> 03:17.680 [SPEAKER_01]: The entire chapter isn't completely reworked. 03:18.021 --> 03:23.552 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, there are sections where just a part of a sentence or a few words here or there are revised. 03:23.592 --> 03:28.242 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can look this up online, there's a lot to read through and I'm not going to take this entire episode to do that. 03:28.522 --> 03:30.887 [SPEAKER_01]: But I will point out some very specific points. 03:30.867 --> 03:33.029 [SPEAKER_01]: In the original, we have this line. 03:33.510 --> 03:36.593 [SPEAKER_01]: If precious asks, and it doesn't answer, we eat it's my precious. 03:36.993 --> 03:41.678 [SPEAKER_01]: If it asks us, and we doesn't answer, then we give it a present, golem. 03:42.719 --> 03:46.503 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you can see some things just in that one sentence that are still going on here. 03:46.823 --> 03:53.169 [SPEAKER_01]: He is still calling the ring, and then he even calls Bilbo, his precious, and it's just a part of his language. 03:53.229 --> 03:55.352 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just calls the ring, and he calls Bilbo. 03:55.752 --> 03:55.812 [SPEAKER_01]: His 03:55.792 --> 04:02.503 [SPEAKER_01]: precious and he calls himself my precious and in fact he talks in third person still and that hasn't changed. 04:02.543 --> 04:10.837 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, a lot of these details about Gaul and being this miserable character who's stuck down here in this cave for some reason. 04:10.917 --> 04:11.438 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never 04:11.418 --> 04:18.853 [SPEAKER_01]: fully explained and the fact that he talks to himself and he has a hard time remembering and he's very old isn't even addressed. 04:18.993 --> 04:22.100 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really explained why that would be the case. 04:22.160 --> 04:26.709 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just left as this mysterious, old, miserable creature. 04:26.729 --> 04:29.815 [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, he remembers 04:29.795 --> 04:31.719 [SPEAKER_01]: the traditions of his past. 04:31.760 --> 04:35.348 [SPEAKER_01]: He remembers this almost holy game of riddles. 04:35.989 --> 04:38.134 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's still violent and dangerous. 04:38.174 --> 04:39.237 [SPEAKER_01]: He's still a monster. 04:39.297 --> 04:42.424 [SPEAKER_01]: He still will eat Bilbo, if Bilbo loses. 04:43.146 --> 04:48.478 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's not without any moral compass, I guess you could say. 04:48.458 --> 04:54.371 [SPEAKER_01]: He has this one ring that he has kept, and it was a birthday present to him in the original version. 04:54.732 --> 04:59.924 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't claim it was a birthday present, and it's steel it from his friend by murdering him, like we find out later. 04:59.964 --> 05:06.619 [SPEAKER_01]: He is just this weird guy who happens to follow through with things. 05:06.599 --> 05:08.923 [SPEAKER_01]: And he says it in the rules of the riddle. 05:09.083 --> 05:12.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we give it a present in the revised version. 05:12.109 --> 05:16.216 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is 1937 was the original 1951 was the revised version. 05:16.597 --> 05:20.243 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, if precious asks and it doesn't answer, we eat it my precious. 05:20.564 --> 05:23.769 [SPEAKER_01]: If it asks us and we doesn't answer, this is the change. 05:24.230 --> 05:27.335 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we does what it wants, say we shows it the way out. 05:27.596 --> 05:31.122 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no mention of giving a gift at all. 05:31.102 --> 05:34.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo's reward is that he will let him go and show him how to leave. 05:35.190 --> 05:38.216 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this still happens in the original version. 05:38.597 --> 05:48.537 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, when Bilbo wins the riddle game with a question that is an exactly a riddle, but when he wins the riddle game, gallum shows him out. 05:48.517 --> 05:51.442 [SPEAKER_01]: But before we get to that, let's talk about that weird question. 05:51.502 --> 05:52.384 [SPEAKER_01]: What's in my pocket? 05:52.945 --> 05:54.687 [SPEAKER_01]: Golem in the original hisses. 05:54.728 --> 05:56.250 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a bunch of asses. 05:56.270 --> 05:56.931 [SPEAKER_01]: HIST GOLUM. 05:57.552 --> 05:58.915 [SPEAKER_01]: It must give us three guesses. 05:58.975 --> 06:00.237 [SPEAKER_01]: My precious three guesses. 06:00.638 --> 06:03.402 [SPEAKER_01]: And then after GOLUM fails to guess, we have this. 06:03.683 --> 06:04.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo seeing what had happened. 06:05.526 --> 06:07.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Stuck to his question. 06:07.730 --> 06:09.192 [SPEAKER_01]: What have I gotten my pocket? 06:09.830 --> 06:10.692 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the change. 06:11.052 --> 06:12.856 [SPEAKER_01]: Golem was terribly upset. 06:13.217 --> 06:16.022 [SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to go to his island and get his present. 06:16.784 --> 06:22.996 [SPEAKER_01]: He's upset that he loses the game and he doesn't have the ring on him, so he leaves to go find it. 06:23.397 --> 06:30.471 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's frustrated because it takes him a little bit to find it and because he has to give away something of value, but he follows through with it. 06:30.451 --> 06:37.029 [SPEAKER_01]: Now in the original version, Bilbo still finds the ring on his own and puts it in his pocket, and Gollum has a misplaced it. 06:37.049 --> 06:40.939 [SPEAKER_01]: He lost the ring and fell off at some point, and he's very upset that he can't find it. 06:41.320 --> 06:42.463 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, where is it? 06:42.523 --> 06:43.085 [SPEAKER_01]: Where is it? 06:43.546 --> 06:46.975 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he squeezed to himself lost, lost to my precious, lost, lost, lost. 06:46.955 --> 06:48.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Bless us in splashes. 06:48.779 --> 06:52.847 [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't the present we promised, and we haven't even got it for ourselves. 06:53.368 --> 07:01.183 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very worried about the ring, because not only did he lose it, he doesn't have a firm self, but he also can't actually follow through with the agreement. 07:02.227 --> 07:13.840 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we get, I don't know how many times Golem begged Bilbo's pardon, he kept on saying, we are sorry, we didn't mean to cheat, we meant to give it our only present if it won the competition. 07:13.880 --> 07:19.345 [SPEAKER_01]: He's trying to do the right thing in the situation even though he's a terrible scary monster. 07:19.906 --> 07:29.036 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is something that Bilbo considers and he realizes that he has the very ring in his pocket that Golem wanted and he doesn't reveal that. 07:29.136 --> 07:31.879 [SPEAKER_01]: He thinks to himself basically like, well, 07:31.859 --> 07:33.243 [SPEAKER_01]: he would have lost it anyway. 07:33.264 --> 07:36.614 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he uses that to change the conversation. 07:36.996 --> 07:42.714 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, never mind, the ring would have been mine now if you had found it, so you would have lost it anyway. 07:42.915 --> 07:45.463 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will let you off on one condition. 07:45.747 --> 07:46.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, what is it? 07:47.329 --> 07:49.031 [SPEAKER_01]: What does it wish us to do my precious? 07:49.391 --> 07:50.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Help me get out of these places. 07:51.253 --> 07:55.058 [SPEAKER_01]: Places plural because of all the different kinds of places that were under the mountain, I guess. 07:55.438 --> 08:00.324 [SPEAKER_01]: But then the conversation continues on and Gollum helps him leave. 08:00.364 --> 08:05.790 [SPEAKER_01]: They walk together and Gollum counts the passages, you know, one left, one right. 08:06.290 --> 08:14.640 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no Bilbo turning invisible and following Gollum out and having to jump over him in the darkness, none of that stuff. 08:14.620 --> 08:19.888 [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, after Gallum showed Bilbo the passage to the door, Bilbo says goodbye. 08:19.928 --> 08:23.554 [SPEAKER_01]: This creates a very different version of those events. 08:24.295 --> 08:35.312 [SPEAKER_01]: And in retrospect now, this has become the version of the events that Bilbo told the dwarves in order to justify the fact that he has this ring. 08:35.352 --> 08:39.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And to protect himself so he doesn't look like a thief. 08:39.038 --> 08:51.939 [SPEAKER_01]: So all that's to say, if you're coming to this version of the story from reading that first version of the habit, then this part of the first chapter explains why that was not accurate. 08:52.400 --> 09:05.080 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you come from the updated version of the story, then you might be left with a question because there is a moment, we'll get to it, where Frodo mentions the story about a present, and this is why. 09:05.060 --> 09:16.454 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're interested in the difference between the two, there are places on like you can just look it up, just you can even just Google the difference between 1937's the Hobbit versus 1951's revision or something like that. 09:16.835 --> 09:17.435 [SPEAKER_01]: And it'll come up. 09:17.475 --> 09:20.519 [SPEAKER_01]: There are websites where you can actually see everything side by side. 09:21.100 --> 09:34.797 [SPEAKER_01]: But in the bonus episode this week, I'm going to take a break from going through all the different locations in the Shire and I'm going to discuss this in a little more detail and we'll read through longer sections of the different versions so that you can get a real 09:34.777 --> 09:38.400 [SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, it isn't as good of a story. 09:38.580 --> 09:40.963 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the revision here that makes it a better story. 09:41.183 --> 09:43.185 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's available to you for patrons. 09:43.225 --> 09:51.272 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you'd like to sign up on the patreon.com slash lotr lorecast, but I just wanted to make sure I put the most of it here for everybody for the free version. 09:51.712 --> 09:55.716 [SPEAKER_01]: As we get into the end of the first chapter of the fellowship of the ring. 09:56.316 --> 10:03.703 [SPEAKER_01]: Here we go. 10:12.070 --> 10:20.221 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, before we get to the conversation between Bilbo and Frodo, which is the bulk of what we're talking about this week, Frodo has to finish up some work. 10:20.401 --> 10:26.289 [SPEAKER_01]: He still has people rummaging around in his home, looking for treasure. 10:26.950 --> 10:29.894 [SPEAKER_01]: And it specifically calls out a few different individuals. 10:30.034 --> 10:34.681 [SPEAKER_01]: First, we have three young hobbits that he has to evict from his whole. 10:35.061 --> 10:37.825 [SPEAKER_01]: Two buffens and a bulger or bulger. 10:37.805 --> 10:38.466 [SPEAKER_01]: really bolder. 10:39.227 --> 10:42.853 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were knocking holes in the walls of one of his sellers. 10:42.933 --> 10:49.043 [SPEAKER_01]: We're at the point now where people have overturned all the furniture, they've looked through all his drawers and all of that. 10:49.484 --> 10:58.598 [SPEAKER_01]: And now they're starting to think that there must be hidden passages and secrets to other rooms that connect to where the treasure was really held. 10:58.578 --> 11:00.801 [SPEAKER_01]: But no, there's not Frodo kicks them out. 11:00.861 --> 11:05.548 [SPEAKER_01]: He also has a tussle with young Sancho proud foot. 11:05.608 --> 11:13.901 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that there's a proud foot with a name's Sancho, because it sounds very Hispanic, and yet you don't get many Hispanic sounding names in the shire. 11:14.221 --> 11:17.546 [SPEAKER_01]: And it probably has a derivative that isn't directly Hispanic. 11:17.566 --> 11:18.528 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know much about that. 11:19.049 --> 11:23.796 [SPEAKER_01]: It is Odo proud foot's grandson, so the proud feet. 11:23.816 --> 11:24.737 [SPEAKER_01]: That's always a fun part. 11:24.717 --> 11:38.512 [SPEAKER_01]: But he went to the larger pantry and because he thought there was an echo, he was excited about the prospect for legendary gold, mysteriously obtained, if not positively ill-gotten. 11:39.233 --> 11:45.900 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it goes on to describe as everyone knows anyone's for the finding, unless the search is interrupted. 11:46.300 --> 11:50.505 [SPEAKER_01]: Now this detail right here is a little bit curious, and it stood out to me. 11:50.485 --> 12:02.265 [SPEAKER_01]: And at first, I realized, okay, this is just an explanation of the general social structure, the way the culture works and how they regard mysteriously found gold in items. 12:02.345 --> 12:11.100 [SPEAKER_01]: And every society has different kind of, I don't know, inherent rules to what is more or less allowed in certain types of these odds and areas. 12:11.160 --> 12:13.624 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just something that cultures do, right? 12:13.604 --> 12:32.462 [SPEAKER_01]: But why put it here, and why try to explain it like this, hasn't Tolkien made his point that people are rummaging through things because they believe that it's for the taking, and they believe that he brought back gold, probably ill gotten from some adventure where he must have done something terrible or whatever in order to get it. 12:32.582 --> 12:37.747 [SPEAKER_01]: And so because it's now being left here, maybe they have a chance to get it for themselves. 12:37.767 --> 12:39.589 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this has been described, right? 12:40.149 --> 12:41.991 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a difference here. 12:41.971 --> 12:47.803 [SPEAKER_01]: Legendary gold, mysteriously obtained if not positively ill-gotten. 12:48.906 --> 12:49.988 [SPEAKER_01]: What does that sound like? 12:50.630 --> 13:01.633 [SPEAKER_01]: At first, it sounds like gold coins, or gold objects that are put in a chest somewhere, a mound of treasure like you would find sitting underneath Smauge with a dragon. 13:01.613 --> 13:02.795 [SPEAKER_01]: But what else is gold? 13:03.497 --> 13:03.897 [SPEAKER_01]: The ring. 13:03.918 --> 13:15.400 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're about to get to a conversation about a ring that was mysteriously obtained and could have been positively ill-garden in Tolkien's words. 13:15.941 --> 13:20.550 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think this is setting us up for that conversation even that we don't realize it yet. 13:20.530 --> 13:24.559 [SPEAKER_01]: So this point, Frodo's dealt with way too many nosy hobbits all day long. 13:24.599 --> 13:28.709 [SPEAKER_01]: He's already dealt with the sackville baggases and all the stress that that brought. 13:28.749 --> 13:29.872 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just exhausted. 13:29.912 --> 13:34.482 [SPEAKER_01]: He tells Mary it's time to close up the shop, lock the door, and don't open it to anyone today. 13:34.563 --> 13:36.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even if they bring a battering ram. 13:36.848 --> 13:38.331 [SPEAKER_01]: which is kind of funny, right? 13:38.711 --> 13:45.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Then he went to revive himself with a belated cup of tea, which is funny for two reasons. 13:45.644 --> 13:47.889 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, it's past tea time. 13:47.929 --> 13:53.018 [SPEAKER_01]: We know the Hobbits have multiple meals scheduled throughout the day and they don't like to have that. 13:52.998 --> 13:53.820 [SPEAKER_01]: interrupted. 13:54.260 --> 13:56.004 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, it's tea. 13:56.565 --> 14:01.795 [SPEAKER_01]: Another clear connection to this big, a little microcosm of British society, right? 14:02.015 --> 14:04.640 [SPEAKER_01]: And then as soon as he sits down, there's another knock at the door. 14:04.701 --> 14:06.584 [SPEAKER_01]: And he assumes it's libellia again. 14:06.644 --> 14:10.852 [SPEAKER_01]: He says she must have thought of something really nasty and have come back again to say it. 14:11.253 --> 14:12.255 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait. 14:12.235 --> 14:25.367 [SPEAKER_01]: you can see the sarcasm in here and this again plays to some of the stuff I was talking about in the previous episode between Frodo and Mary and this young male friendship where they tend to be quick-witted, a little snarky, sarcastic. 14:25.787 --> 14:27.689 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this situation, Frodo's just done. 14:27.789 --> 14:29.230 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like he's not going to answer the door. 14:29.911 --> 14:40.200 [SPEAKER_01]: But then Gandalf's head pokes in through the window and he says, if you don't let me in Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out 14:40.349 --> 14:44.113 [SPEAKER_01]: which is hilarious to think about, that that could actually happen. 14:44.554 --> 14:56.067 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also funny because Gandalf is just kind of, well, I've talked about this before and there's T-shirt for patrons with Grumpy Gandalf on it, but he comes across as just kind of curmudgeonly and grumpy a lot. 14:56.487 --> 15:01.753 [SPEAKER_01]: And he says some things that would be terrifying if he actually did them, but of course he's not gonna do it. 15:02.254 --> 15:09.782 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody knows that he's more of this, I don't know, grumpy grandpa type than somebody who's actually gonna blow his door down. 15:09.762 --> 15:15.747 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, in Frodo response, he says, my dear Gandalf, half a minute, and then he runs to the door and says, come in, come in, I thought it was libelia. 15:16.548 --> 15:18.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf responds, then I forgive you. 15:18.510 --> 15:25.195 [SPEAKER_01]: But I saw her some time ago driving a pony trap towards bywater with a face that would have curdled new milk. 15:25.596 --> 15:27.317 [SPEAKER_01]: So to me, pony trap is new. 15:27.417 --> 15:30.420 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't heard the term pony trap used anywhere else. 15:30.580 --> 15:31.761 [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought I'd dig into this. 15:31.821 --> 15:38.807 [SPEAKER_01]: Turns out that trap means like a little cart with two wheels. 15:38.787 --> 15:41.070 [SPEAKER_01]: with Labelia on the back. 15:41.491 --> 15:41.952 [SPEAKER_01]: There you go. 15:42.312 --> 15:46.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, notice that Gandalf is using a milk analogy. 15:46.238 --> 15:49.844 [SPEAKER_01]: Her face would have curdled new milk to a hobbit. 15:50.525 --> 15:52.728 [SPEAKER_01]: And we know that the hobbits do this. 15:53.630 --> 15:57.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo talking about butter spread over too much toast and all of that. 15:57.275 --> 15:58.617 [SPEAKER_01]: And he does this pretty regularly. 15:58.998 --> 16:03.124 [SPEAKER_01]: Food analogies are very common with hobbits because of their love of food. 16:03.104 --> 16:23.745 [SPEAKER_01]: And Gandalf knows that, and this is an example of Gandalf using the language of the people that he's visiting, not just the actual language, like speaking in a different tongue, but the phrases in order to connect with people and remember, that's Gandalf's thing, and for as grumpy as he comes across sometimes, 16:23.725 --> 16:34.900 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's a benefit, maybe having this crumudgeonly old man walk around is more believable than someone who's just pleasant all the time, but he does this to connect specifically with the Hobbits. 16:35.521 --> 16:38.505 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo responds, she had already nearly curdled me. 16:38.926 --> 16:40.969 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I nearly tried on Bilbo's ring. 16:41.389 --> 16:42.390 [SPEAKER_01]: I long to disappear. 16:42.991 --> 16:44.754 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this, again, does two things. 16:45.034 --> 16:48.299 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, it shows that Frodo was affected by that. 16:48.439 --> 16:56.690 [SPEAKER_01]: Although he was strong in his response and humorous with Mary and responding to her, he didn't appreciate it. 16:56.710 --> 16:58.352 [SPEAKER_01]: This is stressful to him still. 16:59.114 --> 17:00.195 [SPEAKER_01]: But, 17:00.175 --> 17:08.387 [SPEAKER_01]: We see here the first admittance that he had nearly tried on Bilbo's ring and remember there was a moment where he was playing with something in his pocket. 17:09.229 --> 17:12.854 [SPEAKER_01]: And he specifically says here, I longed to disappear. 17:12.894 --> 17:17.501 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a longed here is probably the the key word. 17:18.222 --> 17:20.005 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that he just wanted to. 17:20.045 --> 17:21.667 [SPEAKER_01]: He longed to. 17:21.727 --> 17:28.157 [SPEAKER_01]: There's something more powerful, 17:28.137 --> 17:33.763 [SPEAKER_01]: And Gandalf responds, don't do that, and he sits down, and this is where Gandalf gets serious with him. 17:33.843 --> 17:37.447 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, do be careful of that ringfrodo, exclamation mark. 17:37.947 --> 17:41.671 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it is partly about that that I've come to say a last word. 17:42.612 --> 17:46.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Now notice, this is heading towards finality, a last word. 17:46.296 --> 17:52.322 [SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf has already made up his mind, and will be leaving very soon, which he's about to reveal. 17:52.302 --> 17:58.863 [SPEAKER_01]: But you can see that in the text and the things that he's saying right here before he even admits to it, it's hinting at this. 17:59.204 --> 18:03.578 [SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't have a last word if he was planning to stay for a week and help clean up from the party. 18:03.963 --> 18:05.405 [SPEAKER_01]: So Fredo says, well, what about it? 18:05.885 --> 18:08.488 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'll response, what do you know already? 18:08.508 --> 18:10.731 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the interesting part. 18:11.432 --> 18:14.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Fredo responds, only what Bilbo told me. 18:14.715 --> 18:19.521 [SPEAKER_01]: I have heard his story, how he found it, and how he used it on his journey, I mean. 18:20.101 --> 18:31.995 [SPEAKER_01]: So he very clearly is talking about not other times, the original moment when he gets the ring and how it became useful on his adventure is the story that Bilbo has told him. 18:32.093 --> 18:39.391 [SPEAKER_01]: But then Gandalf says, which story I wonder, which reveals that Gandalf already knows at this point. 18:39.471 --> 18:49.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Now he may not have known it at the close of the Hobbit, but at this point he knows that the story Bilbo told everybody was not the real story. 18:50.437 --> 18:54.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo replies, oh, not what he told the dwarves and put in his book. 18:55.421 --> 19:01.987 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the part that connects to people who read the first edition of the Hobbit, because that is the version of the story they would know. 19:02.907 --> 19:05.870 [SPEAKER_01]: He told me the true story soon after I came to live here. 19:06.430 --> 19:10.994 [SPEAKER_01]: He said, you had pestered him till he told you, so I better know too. 19:11.094 --> 19:20.342 [SPEAKER_01]: So Frodo clarifies for us the audience, that Gandalf already was told the story. 19:20.322 --> 19:26.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Frodo says, no secrets between us Frodo, he said, but they are not to go any further. 19:26.399 --> 19:27.482 [SPEAKER_01]: It's mine anyway. 19:28.445 --> 19:29.367 [SPEAKER_01]: Then notice this. 19:30.571 --> 19:34.000 [SPEAKER_01]: This is part Bilbo and part the ring talking. 19:34.622 --> 19:35.344 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo. 19:35.324 --> 19:52.388 [SPEAKER_01]: is very friendly with Frodo and very honest and tries to be an upstanding habit the best he possibly can and so in taking Frodo in he's like no secrets between us Frodo that like we will be honest with each other he's basically a serigate parent. 19:52.368 --> 19:55.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Then he says, it's mine anyway. 19:55.594 --> 19:58.619 [SPEAKER_01]: This part feels unnecessary. 19:59.260 --> 20:00.743 [SPEAKER_01]: Why even say that? 20:00.943 --> 20:02.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo doesn't want the ring. 20:03.147 --> 20:06.553 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no intent from Frodo in curiosity. 20:06.593 --> 20:14.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo's the one who presented the story to Frodo in this version of those events because he wanted to be honest with him and share what he knew. 20:15.014 --> 20:21.446 [SPEAKER_01]: But then it's as if he gets defensive, as if he has to restate for himself who's in control of the ring. 20:21.807 --> 20:25.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'll think this is interesting and he asks Freda what he thought of it. 20:26.315 --> 20:31.605 [SPEAKER_01]: And Freda's response here again points to the original version of that story. 20:31.585 --> 20:39.839 [SPEAKER_01]: If you mean inventing all that about a present, well, I thought the true story much more likely, and I couldn't see the point of altering it all. 20:40.059 --> 20:42.303 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very unlike Bilbo to do so. 20:42.804 --> 20:44.727 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, and I thought it rather odd. 20:45.128 --> 20:51.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's something in literature and writing stories or movies or TV shows or any of that, called hanging a lantern on it. 20:51.278 --> 21:20.661 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a tactic, I don't know if that's the best word for it, but this is a thing that authors will do when something in the story presents itself in a way that seems odd or obviously in cohesive with the rest of the narrative or something that feels just way too coincidental, something that the audience would probably push back against and think was a bad idea in the writing. 21:20.641 --> 21:29.350 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what Tolkien is doing here, is he's not leaving this up to people to discuss and say, well, in the version of the Hobbit I read, this is what happened. 21:29.370 --> 21:30.952 [SPEAKER_01]: And why is it different from this version? 21:31.352 --> 21:42.244 [SPEAKER_01]: He's attempting to clear that up by hanging a lantern on it with Frodo himself saying, that was very unlike Bilbo to do, and I thought it was rather odd. 21:42.724 --> 21:49.011 [SPEAKER_01]: And by having a character in the 21:48.991 --> 22:05.127 [SPEAKER_01]: we know that Bilbo is acting oddly, not because it's a mistake of the author, not because he's being written inconsistently, but because something else was going on and now these characters are suspicious about it. 22:05.107 --> 22:06.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would Bilbo lie? 22:07.271 --> 22:11.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would Bilbo act in ways that don't make sense? 22:11.978 --> 22:13.361 [SPEAKER_01]: Something else is going on. 22:13.581 --> 22:17.087 [SPEAKER_01]: And it clues both Frodo and Gandalf into this. 22:17.548 --> 22:19.591 [SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf responds, so did I. 22:19.691 --> 22:23.858 [SPEAKER_01]: But odd things may happen to people who have such treasures if they use them. 22:23.838 --> 22:26.701 [SPEAKER_01]: Let it be a warning to you to be very careful with it. 22:27.202 --> 22:31.466 [SPEAKER_01]: It may have other powers than just making you vanish when you wish to. 22:31.806 --> 22:36.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, one of the complaints about the Lord of the Rings is that, at this point, Gandalf is extremely wise. 22:36.772 --> 22:38.554 [SPEAKER_01]: He knows the entire history of Middle-Earth. 22:38.934 --> 22:52.208 [SPEAKER_01]: He's lived through large portions of it, and why would he think that this wasn't the most dangerous version of what this ring could possibly be, which would be a world-ending catastrophe kind of problem. 22:52.188 --> 23:10.585 [SPEAKER_01]: And it seems that he's hinting that that might be the case, but he's hoping that it isn't, which also implies that there could be a good number of other magical rings and items out there that can do things like this, and may even have slightly sinister properties, but aren't as bad as the one ring. 23:10.565 --> 23:29.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we don't have too many other examples of those other than some of the other rings that were made like the dwarf rings and the elf rings and the rings for men and all of that which would also be extremely notable if this was like a lost dwarven ring or something like that, but that's not what those rings did and that doesn't exactly match up with what's going on here. 23:29.465 --> 23:34.419 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the reasons we can forgive Tolkien for this inconsistency. 23:34.499 --> 23:45.229 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess you could probably claim it to be, you know, why wasn't Gandalf even more sure of this or even more careful, because he just kind of leaves for a number of years and then comes back after doing more research. 23:45.209 --> 23:53.885 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think one of the benefits of Tolkien's world and the way he writes is that he leaves so much open to mystery. 23:53.945 --> 24:01.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't know a ton about that yet, if you've already read the Hobbit, you've seen pieces of this. 24:01.038 --> 24:25.594 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you've read through the Lord of the Rings and you find out that there's an old forest with trees that move and Tom Bombadil and all of these weird and odd wacky kinds of things going on in the world, and if you've gone through the greater legendarium, you know that the world is expansive and that there are often times things that show up that aren't easily explained and that's okay. 24:25.574 --> 24:35.737 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that lends a little bit of credence to Gandalf being a little bit more like, well, it's more likely to be just some other random magic ring as opposed to the one. 24:36.118 --> 24:40.888 [SPEAKER_01]: It also works for the story in order to build up tension and all of that, so I can see why it was written that way. 24:41.008 --> 24:41.710 [SPEAKER_01]: But... 24:41.690 --> 24:50.182 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, it is a little funny that Gandalf doesn't become even more suspicious and become more careful with what's going on here. 24:50.442 --> 24:53.306 [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess the other flip side of that is, what else could he have done? 24:53.747 --> 25:00.476 [SPEAKER_01]: If he had raised guards in order to like watch the Shire night and day, which he kind of does, I mean he goes to the Rangers. 25:00.857 --> 25:01.217 [SPEAKER_01]: But 25:01.197 --> 25:18.001 [SPEAKER_01]: If he had made a big stink about it, then that would have been even more obvious and drawn more attention, so the best choice here was to leave it with an unknown hobbit and an unknown part of the world that barely anybody ever thinks about, and hope that it just goes unnoticed until he's 100% sure. 25:18.502 --> 25:19.744 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get that perspective as well. 25:19.944 --> 25:22.768 [SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, let me know your thoughts about that, because it is one of those issues. 25:22.788 --> 25:24.150 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a little bit... 25:24.130 --> 25:25.774 [SPEAKER_01]: little bit interesting the way it plays out. 25:25.954 --> 25:35.915 [SPEAKER_01]: So Frodo says he doesn't understand and then Gandalf admits to, neither do I. I have merely begun to wonder about the ring, especially since last night, so he hasn't had that much time to think about it. 25:35.935 --> 25:40.485 [SPEAKER_01]: No need to worry, but if you take my advice, you will use it very seldom or not at all. 25:40.465 --> 25:46.553 [SPEAKER_01]: At least I beg you not to use it in any way that will cause talk or rouse suspicion. 25:46.653 --> 25:51.240 [SPEAKER_01]: So notice here, you can see his plan is already coming forward in his mind. 25:51.680 --> 25:57.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, don't use the ring, but if you do, don't let anyone else see it or know that you did. 25:57.849 --> 26:01.594 [SPEAKER_01]: So that there's no discussion about what's going on with it. 26:01.914 --> 26:06.000 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need anyone else saying, oh, somebody disappeared. 26:05.980 --> 26:08.704 [SPEAKER_01]: Because remember, he already covered for Bilbo. 26:08.984 --> 26:10.046 [SPEAKER_01]: He had a flash of light. 26:10.366 --> 26:18.358 [SPEAKER_01]: People are going to think that Gandalf cast it a spell or use some sort of special firework or something in order to cover Bilbo's escape. 26:19.179 --> 26:25.509 [SPEAKER_01]: But if Frodo starts disappearing in front of people, that's going to become talk and talk will travel. 26:26.290 --> 26:29.915 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he says, I say again, keep it safe and keep it secret. 26:30.797 --> 26:32.699 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo responds, you are very mysterious. 26:32.759 --> 26:34.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do you afraid of? 26:34.550 --> 26:36.552 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not certain, so I will say no more. 26:36.592 --> 26:39.396 [SPEAKER_01]: I may be able to tell you something when I come back. 26:39.956 --> 26:42.900 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going off at once, so this is goodbye for the present. 26:42.920 --> 26:48.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, notice, he's still not sure, but he also doesn't want to speak the name of what's going on. 26:48.366 --> 26:49.908 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to put it out there. 26:49.928 --> 26:53.793 [SPEAKER_01]: He also doesn't want Frodo to be overly worried about this. 26:54.213 --> 26:58.298 [SPEAKER_01]: He just wants to make sure that Frodo doesn't use the ring. 26:59.119 --> 27:04.405 [SPEAKER_01]: At once, Cried Frodo, why I thought you were staying on at least a week. 27:04.537 --> 27:13.612 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was originally the plan, but Gandalf here now realizes that this is a very important thing and he needs more information. 27:13.632 --> 27:23.187 [SPEAKER_01]: There are things about the history of what has gone on that he even even Gandalf still isn't 100% sure about and he needs to double check. 27:23.555 --> 27:26.698 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, I did mean to, but I have had to change my mind. 27:26.818 --> 27:30.401 [SPEAKER_01]: I may be away for a good while, but I'll come and see you again, as soon as I can. 27:30.782 --> 27:32.223 [SPEAKER_01]: Expect me when you see me. 27:32.844 --> 27:33.945 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a ton of expect me earlier. 27:34.565 --> 27:36.747 [SPEAKER_01]: I shall slip in quietly, that's interesting. 27:37.168 --> 27:38.589 [SPEAKER_01]: He's planning to come back in secret. 27:39.290 --> 27:41.872 [SPEAKER_01]: I shant often be visiting the Shire openly again. 27:41.912 --> 27:43.714 [SPEAKER_01]: Notice he's protecting the Shire. 27:43.734 --> 27:47.197 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want anyone tracking his motion and knowing that he's going there. 27:47.217 --> 27:50.440 [SPEAKER_01]: He does not want to draw attention to the Shire. 27:50.420 --> 27:55.328 [SPEAKER_01]: I find that I have become rather unpopular, and this is his justification to Bilbo. 27:55.388 --> 27:59.054 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not untrue, but it's not the real reason he's not coming back. 27:59.495 --> 28:01.919 [SPEAKER_01]: They say I am a nuisance and a discerber of the peace. 28:02.400 --> 28:06.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Some people are actually accusing me of spiriting Bilbo away or worse. 28:06.487 --> 28:10.774 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to know, there is supposed to be a plot between you and me to get hold of his wealth. 28:10.754 --> 28:37.099 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, for us, as some people, and then, of course, he assumes it's the Sackville Bagginses, and he uses the expression here, how abominable, and, again, Tolkien's use of individual specific words is unparalleled, because abominable means detestable, low-sum, or extremely unpleasant, and poor, in quality, which is a very good description of the Sackville Bagginses. 28:37.079 --> 28:43.188 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Fredo says, I would give them back and everything else if I could get Bilbo back and go off trampling in the country with him. 28:43.708 --> 28:44.449 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the Shire. 28:45.030 --> 28:47.574 [SPEAKER_01]: But I begin to wish somehow that I had gone to. 28:47.594 --> 28:49.797 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if I shall ever see him again. 28:49.837 --> 28:51.419 [SPEAKER_01]: Then this is foreshadowing. 28:51.439 --> 28:54.644 [SPEAKER_01]: This is again filling in some details about Frodo that we did not know. 28:54.764 --> 28:56.666 [SPEAKER_01]: We knew that he was like Bilbo. 28:57.047 --> 28:59.871 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's actually more like Bilbo than we would have expected. 29:00.352 --> 29:01.433 [SPEAKER_01]: Bilbo... 29:01.413 --> 29:08.561 [SPEAKER_01]: thought that Frodo would want to stay in the Shire for a great long time, but Frodo in this moment is willing to give it all the way. 29:08.621 --> 29:12.365 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't really care about the property and the wealth. 29:13.066 --> 29:25.159 [SPEAKER_01]: What he cares about is going out in the country with him, being with Bilbo again, and hopefully seeing him again, which of course is foreshadowing, and we will get to see Bilbo again. 29:25.139 --> 29:33.414 [SPEAKER_01]: So do I, said Gandalf, and I wonder many other things, hinting at more that's going on that he's going to investigate. 29:33.995 --> 29:34.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye now. 29:34.576 --> 29:35.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Take care of yourself. 29:35.878 --> 29:38.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Look out for me, especially at unlikely times. 29:39.084 --> 29:39.705 [SPEAKER_01]: Goodbye. 29:40.580 --> 29:50.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, Gandalf, of course, being mysterious and predicting that he will return at an unlikely time, and all of that is, of course, very, very Gandalfian. 29:50.611 --> 29:51.511 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fun thing. 29:51.531 --> 29:54.835 [SPEAKER_01]: We should say that more often, but then this chapter ends with this. 29:55.656 --> 30:10.131 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo saw him to the door, he gave a final wave of his hand and walked off at a surprising pace, but Frodo thought the old wizard looked unusually bent, almost as if he was carrying a great weight. 30:10.111 --> 30:18.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf is starting to realize that the one ring is not lost anymore, and that is extremely dangerous. 30:18.788 --> 30:21.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Gandalf knows that the evil forces have been increasing. 30:21.975 --> 30:25.161 [SPEAKER_01]: He knows that there is a necromancer that's been causing problems. 30:25.482 --> 30:29.149 [SPEAKER_01]: He knows that the world is getting darker. 30:29.129 --> 30:41.149 [SPEAKER_01]: And now, he suspects that the very thing that Dark Lord wants, that would give the Dark Lord the power to rule over everyone, may have just resurfaced. 30:42.171 --> 30:45.897 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we would all feel a little bit weighed down by that info. 30:46.999 --> 30:51.627 [SPEAKER_01]: The evening was closing in, and his cloaked figure quickly vanished into the twilight. 30:52.008 --> 30:55.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Frodo did not see him again for a long time. 30:58.947 --> 31:09.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this story is so good. 31:09.941 --> 31:10.722 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so good. 31:10.782 --> 31:22.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I'm excited to get into the bonus episode and kind of break down some more of the similarities and differences between the two versions of the Hobbit, but also before we get to that, welcome to our newest patrons. 31:22.677 --> 31:25.461 [SPEAKER_01]: We have Evan M. More Goff for President. 31:25.441 --> 31:29.426 [SPEAKER_01]: Not sure about that one, Brandon S and banana bread. 31:29.846 --> 31:31.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Patreon. 31:31.208 --> 31:35.633 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you decided to join me and hopefully you're enjoying your ad free episodes and your bonus episodes. 31:35.813 --> 31:38.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, have to shout out all of our VIP patrons. 31:39.358 --> 31:41.520 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's see if I can get through this list. 31:41.540 --> 31:49.069 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to start with full chrome and David S, Dan O'Neighwever, Kepena, Richard J. TJT, aka musical lover, Barney D, Asal Reza, Laurie B. 31:49.049 --> 32:08.766 [SPEAKER_01]: Norwegian Mayar, Mason Weathertop Jezor, Gimliya Break, Divine Madman, Rosie Roseh, Morgoth for President, Ginger Fury, who on is my hero Al-Darion was right, Avarial, Party Snack, Single, and Looking for Enlives, Maltz and Norwegiannius, Bruce W. Artemis, Kira Sea, Doss, S, Robotmoth, Silverstar, and Claude. 32:08.826 --> 32:10.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much to all of you for your support. 32:10.649 --> 32:18.022 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any new reviews to read out this week on Apple Podcasts, but if you'd like to leave a review with five stars, I will read it out on a few trips out. 32:18.042 --> 32:19.705 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, feel free to comments. 32:19.886 --> 32:22.089 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening on Spotify, you can comment on there. 32:22.109 --> 32:28.341 [SPEAKER_01]: You can even have conversations with people, positive comments or constructive feedback is always welcome. 32:28.721 --> 32:31.045 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can, of course, comment on the Patreon. 32:31.066 --> 32:33.310 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, you can join as a free patron member. 32:33.650 --> 32:35.273 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't get the ad 32:35.253 --> 32:40.400 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a good way to stay plugged in and know if there's anything changing or coming or any updates that I post on there. 32:40.680 --> 32:44.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't post so much on social media these days because, well, that's kind of all terrible. 32:45.427 --> 32:51.715 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you'd like to stay plugged in, then make sure you join us on the discord or on the Patreon in order to stay plugged in. 32:52.016 --> 32:52.797 [SPEAKER_01]: That's repetitive. 32:53.097 --> 32:53.377 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 32:53.878 --> 32:55.781 [SPEAKER_01]: I talk for a living, and clearly I'm very good at it. 32:56.121 --> 32:57.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, thanks for being here. 32:57.663 --> 33:01.328 [SPEAKER_01]: Have a wonderful week, and until next time, if you come across a magical item, 33:01.308 --> 33:03.441 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe don't use it until you know what it actually does. 33:03.984 --> 33:05.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Stay safe out there, I'll see you next time. 33:08.328 --> 33:10.470 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 33:11.091 --> 33:14.635 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 33:15.075 --> 33:19.380 [SPEAKER_01]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more at robotsradio.net. 33:19.840 --> 33:21.702 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 33:22.183 --> 33:28.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 33:29.191 --> 33:34.897 [SPEAKER_01]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 33:35.157 --> 33:36.158 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next time.