[SPEAKER_07]: It's Super Bowl Sunday, which means you've got options for your halftime entertainment.
[SPEAKER_07]: You can watch the actual halftime show featuring Bad Bunny, or you can watch Turning Point USA's Alternative, all American halftime show.
[SPEAKER_07]: Or I guess you can just consider this podcast my alternative to the Alternatives halftime show.
[SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, as I'm sure you've heard, Kid Rock is headlining the TPSA, Faith, Family, and Freedom halftime show.
[SPEAKER_04]: However, there's a town debate with racial overtones on the wrong side.
[SPEAKER_07]: With the Epstein files slowly being released the last few months, it's great to have an artist whose music captures the current times.
[SPEAKER_07]: I mean, what lyrics could be more relevant than young ladies, young ladies, I like them under age.
[SPEAKER_07]: Some say that's statutory, but I say it's mandatory.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yes, those are actual kid rock lyrics.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yet it's when bad Bunny is performing at the actual Super Bowl that conservatives lose their
[SPEAKER_07]: Even Franklin Graham, son of maybe the most famous evangelist in history, Billy Graham, think turning point USA for providing a alternative to the quote, sexualized Super Bowl Half-Time Show.
[SPEAKER_07]: But here's the kicker that few people are talking about.
[SPEAKER_07]: This show is airing on TBN.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's right, the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the largest Christian television channel.
[SPEAKER_07]: In fact, my friend April a joy who wrote Star Spangled Jesus recently created a video that points out how hilarious this is.
[SPEAKER_03]: The turning point announced their alternative half-time show that there's a little detail that a lot of us seem to be missing.
[SPEAKER_03]: that this is going to be airing on TVN.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't know, TVN is the world's largest non-profit Christian television network.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been to their studio, my dad's been on TVN, like I was raised by these people.
[SPEAKER_03]: TVN was a huge reason for this satanic panic, and the idea that if you played rock music backwards, you could hear satanic messages.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might want to turn it up just a little out here on the floor.
[SPEAKER_04]: I live with Satan, listen again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh, oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
[SPEAKER_03]: Or this song?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[SPEAKER_03]: And listen, I have no problem listening to secular music, but TVN does.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand the timeline that we are in.
[SPEAKER_07]: What?
[SPEAKER_07]: Imagine just flipping channels and you end up on TVN and you listen to a couple of Christian artists and then this song pops on.
[SPEAKER_04]: We the people and now we do deserve the right to scream fuck you!
[SPEAKER_07]: Look, I'm agnostic, I don't have any theological skin in this game, but I grew up fundamental Baptist, and we drew lines in the sand over everything.
[SPEAKER_07]: I remember riding out my friend for having a soldier boy CD in his room.
[SPEAKER_07]: But now I'm seeing conservative Christians flocking to organizations like Turning Point who are, again, broadcasting kid rock on TBM, and I know I've said that several times in this video.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I can't get over how bizarre this matchup is.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm not the only one who thinks this is weird.
[SPEAKER_07]: While I was creating this episode, I actually reached out to Rick Pidcock.
[SPEAKER_07]: The author of the forthcoming book, worship warfare, how the songs of white evangelicalism became the soundtrack of the right.
[SPEAKER_07]: One of the first questions I asked him is, what would you think in the 90s, if you had heard that TVN was going to be airing Kid Rock?
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's what he said.
[SPEAKER_02]: The world that I grew up in?
[SPEAKER_02]: we were very much concerned about like the end times as it was coming up on y2k and so you'd often hear about the Church of Leia de Cia and which is like this church in the book of Revelation where it's like oh it's the Church of the End Times they're they're compromised with worldliness.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they'll let their guys have longer hair and their girls wear pants.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they'll lower their music standards and movie standards and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think in the early 90s we probably would have shocked it up to, oh, this is an example of the Church of Leia to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's so weird now looking back, because now all these people that I thought were such liberals, they're like all part of maga.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of, you know, a little bit of only flash there.
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, not every Christian is supportive of this.
[SPEAKER_07]: In fact, some conservative Christians like Independent Phenomenal Baptist YouTuber Spencer Smith said that Franklin Graham has lost the plot.
[SPEAKER_07]: Now, I don't agree with Spencer Smith on a lot of stuff, but at least he's that old school version of Phenomenalists that just doesn't like anybody and stays consistent with that.
[SPEAKER_07]: But beyond staunch Independent Phenomenal Baptist, there's also been evangelicals who have called this out.
[SPEAKER_07]: Take a look at what Rizlan had to say.
[SPEAKER_05]: We got to talk about why Kid Rock is performing this Sunday on Christian subdivision.
[SPEAKER_05]: But not just Christian subdivision.
[SPEAKER_05]: TBN, the biggest Christian subdivision.
[SPEAKER_05]: This event airs on the Trinity Broadcast Network, which is a faith adjacent, unapologetically Christian show.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is, they have a lot of the prosperity stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now,
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not a huge fan of TPN, but I understand their play because they're just seeing it as programming.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is the sort of inconsistency that pops up on the far right, if you will, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or just conservatives in general will look past this.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they are airing turning points, concerts, Super Bowl concert, which is an opposition to the Super Bowl half time show with bad bunny.
[SPEAKER_05]: Kidrock is not known for Christian lyrics.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's not known for Christian ethics.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's not known for any sort of spiritual formation yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, he's platform and accepted as Christian, Christian, adjacent content, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: In this issue, like the selective discernment, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We demand theological precision for some and ignore it for others.
[SPEAKER_05]: Pents on your tribe depends on what party you're at, depends on who's in on it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: What who feels useful and for the record, I love turning point.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a big fan, you guys know, I have the Fended Turning point repeatedly on here.
[SPEAKER_05]: This feels like, this feels weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why would TBN and turning point be doing this?
[SPEAKER_05]: It just doesn't make any sense to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Now again, I disagree with Reslon and Spencer upheld a lot of things, but I can at least appreciate that there's some discernible consistency in what they endorse or condemn.
[SPEAKER_07]: They're actually applying their stated values across the board, not just when it's politically convenient.
[SPEAKER_07]: Honestly, one of the biggest questions flowing through my mind in the last couple days is what does faith-based even mean anymore?
[SPEAKER_07]: Cameron's string at relevant magazine wrote that TBN built an empire by drawing a firm line between Christian and secular.
[SPEAKER_07]: That was our whole brand, separation.
[SPEAKER_07]: But now they're discarding all of that just to amplify a secular political message.
[SPEAKER_07]: This was another thing that came up in my conversation with Rick where we talked about kind of the synergy between the political right and Christian conservatism.
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's what we had to say about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of Christians today are they're feeling out their churches based on their political identity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I went to an event earlier this year at Clemson University with Sociologist Samuel Perry.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was talking about how, especially around 2020, Christians pastors began telling him that Christians were coming to their church and leaving their church based off of what the pastor said politically rather than so much what the pastor said theologically.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like if the pastor spoke about George Floyd, people would come,
[SPEAKER_02]: and people would leave, or if the pastor spoke about masks, people would come, or people would leave.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think there's been this blurring of spheres or boundaries in people's minds, just this merging of worship and politics, because as a Christian like, when worship is something you're supposed to do with all of your life, it's going to include your politics.
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they blend those two worlds and then they kind of begin to prioritize some of the, the political Leaning's.
[SPEAKER_07]: Ancient COVID, who's now running the Charlie Kirk Show went on OAN to promote this thing and this is how he described it.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's something the entire family can gather around and watch and be supported.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right, so you don't have to be supportive of and excited about.
[SPEAKER_08]: You're going to worry about some body parts.
[SPEAKER_08]: They're going to pop out or people are going to make a big radical political statements or call ice or Trump.
[SPEAKER_08]: Nazis in Hitler, you're just going to be entertained to your point.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you're not going to see any ludeness, no negativity, no anti-eye stuff, no celebration of queer lifestyles, no singers wearing dresses, none of that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just going to be a good wholesome, all-American fun.
[SPEAKER_07]: So think of some of the ways they describe this alternative halftime show.
[SPEAKER_07]: No loot this, so we're gonna bring in Kid Rock.
[SPEAKER_07]: It's gonna be wholesome, so Kid Rock.
[SPEAKER_07]: For people like Franklin Graham that are worried about sexualized content and things popping out of clothing, Kid Rock.
[SPEAKER_07]: Again, this is another thing that came up in my conversation with Rick, and I think he gave a really good insight into this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where I think a lot of this becomes a bit more clear, because, you know, you think about like, what are they doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's going to focus on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, the big headline is Kid Rock, a brandly Gilbert Lee, Bryce, Gabby Barrett, but basically like, I think when you can't, when you look at what they're complaining about, what they're upset about, it starts to become a lot more clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they're upset over bad bunnies, criticism of ice,
[SPEAKER_02]: They're upset about how he primarily sings in Spanish.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't like his LGBTQ affirmation, and then there's also been this narrative over the last decade, especially about how the NFL is supposedly going woke.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Trump has kind of played into this a bit with going back to the Colin Kaepernick stuff, the kneeling for the nationally anthem, slogans on the field and things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like there's, if you look at those things of what they're complaining about, you kind of start to see, okay, they're setting up these hierarchies of race and ethnicity.
[SPEAKER_02]: and of gender and sexuality, and then with the family piece, this fear of and control of the kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like those are three things that they're setting up.
[SPEAKER_02]: These authority and submission dynamics and those contexts.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and then they insert music into this whole scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's kind of like with my book that I'm, that's gonna be coming out in September.
[SPEAKER_02]: um, weapons of worship, how the songs of evangelicals and form the soundtrack of extremism after like getting into those authority and submission dynamics.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually have a chapter on all three of those contexts.
[SPEAKER_02]: The race and ethnicity is one chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gender and sexuality is another and then I get into their control of the kids in a third chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,
[SPEAKER_02]: and the music just is kind of like the, it's like the sugar that helps all of that poison go down.
[SPEAKER_07]: So what are the actual standards here?
[SPEAKER_07]: Because from where I'm sitting, it looks like the only one in conservative circles now is, do you support Trump?
[SPEAKER_07]: Kidbrock's entire career has been built on explicit lyric, sexual bravado, and profanity.
[SPEAKER_07]: And for decades he embodied exactly what TBN and many conservative Christians, like the ones I grew up around warned about.
[SPEAKER_07]: None of that's changed.
[SPEAKER_07]: What's changed is politics.
[SPEAKER_07]: He's now a vocal conservative and suddenly the standards disappear.
[SPEAKER_07]: Here's what gets me.
[SPEAKER_07]: Conservative Christians spent years railing against celebrity culture.
[SPEAKER_07]: But the second celebrity says something nice about Trump, it's red carpet and VIP treatment.
[SPEAKER_07]: Charlie Kurt condemned Nicki Minaj for not being a good role model.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Nicki Minaj, Cardi B.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Nicki Minaj is causing dads to leave the home on us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's a good role model for 18-year-old black girls.
[SPEAKER_07]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_07]: Then after he dies, Erica Kirk wheels her out at a TPSA event.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's an amazing woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: She has this soul and a heart for the Lord.
[SPEAKER_07]: Did Nikki's content change?
[SPEAKER_07]: No.
[SPEAKER_07]: She just started saying the right things about Trump and just like that, all is forgiven.
[SPEAKER_07]: It just goes to show then conservative circles.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was never really about the music.
[SPEAKER_07]: We certainly know it was never about protecting kids.
[SPEAKER_07]: It was about loyalty to power.
[SPEAKER_07]: As relevant author, Cameron's string wrote, this tells viewers that secular culture is dangerous until it votes the right way.
[SPEAKER_07]: It tells you on Christians that standards are flexible when power is involved.
[SPEAKER_07]: On a set, go a step further.
[SPEAKER_07]: I'd say it tells everyone watching that none of those standards really mattered.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're just desperate for any kind of power or fame, and you'll validate any celebrity that I'll bring that to you.
[SPEAKER_07]: This was one of the final things I talked to Rick about, is the way that evangelicals crave the affirmation of celebrity.
[SPEAKER_07]: They need the celebrity endorsements.
[SPEAKER_07]: You know, the way I always look at is they build platforms in two ways, one by condemning and critiquing celebrities in Hollywood and Nashville and the music scene and all these things, but also they are just desperate for any morsel of relevancy that they can gain by getting celebrity endorsements and Rick echoed this
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think a lot of evangelicals know a lot of kidrock lyrics.
[SPEAKER_02]: They probably couldn't name a kidrock song if their life depended on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could be wrong on that, but that's just an educated guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like they're willing to overlook a lot for power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for being seen as one of the cool kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: and they've always had this fascination with celebrities like you look like around 2000 when I graduated from high school there was this whole thing with uh and and time to movies that were coming out and so like they had a a movie called Tribulation that was starring Gary Bucy and they thought it was so cool that they had Gary Bucy and then like they had a new left behind movie come out with Nicholas Cage and Tim LaHay was like finally this is
[SPEAKER_02]: And then now you've got Russell brand going around with Sean Foyt, you know, and so it's like they've always had this fascination with
[SPEAKER_02]: celebrities who are willing to, you know, say they're, they're not, you know, ridiculous and they're not hateful biggets and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that a lot of that is coming from a place of insecurity because I think white evangelicals are fundamentally a very insecure people and that comes, that goes back to their theology.
[SPEAKER_02]: because their theology puts people down and keeps people in their place.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
[SPEAKER_07]: I was telling my wife there's, um, they need even jokalism and then even to like more hardcore fundamentalists need the same thing, like they need to be able to constantly attack the outside like Hollywood and sports and all that sort of stuff.
[SPEAKER_07]: but they also are so desperate to lap up any credibility they'll get from someone and it's so like the bar is so low for like conversion story for an athlete or an actor like they could deal logically like all of a sudden we're not going do they read the King James version and come to this conclusion it's just like yeah we got one you know like that that kind of
[SPEAKER_07]: inconsistency always stands out to me.
[SPEAKER_07]: The very last question that I asked Rick during our conversation was, what even is faith-based or Christian media anymore?
[SPEAKER_07]: What does that even mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about, like Sean Floyd, for example, he talks about how we're at Army, where the Army of God and the family of God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's there's there's two pieces to this were one like they're they're an army that's fighting their enemies demanding that everyone bend the knee and they're going to dehumanize those who You know are below them and they're going to exile those who won't submit, but they're also a family
[SPEAKER_02]: who has a good, good father, and they're wanting us to see this brother sister intimacy that they have, and so you have both of these dynamics that play here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Christian media today is kind of becoming this way to provide both of those.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got a lot of songs.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you listen to, if you can take it and listen to like an hour of Christian radio or something, you'll
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and a lot of like war genocide type language about like taking, you know, taking no prisoners of your, your sin and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all like applying the, the conquest narratives of the Bible, but then you'll also hear all this stuff about how beautiful your father is and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and I think Christian music does a great, um, it's a very powerful tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: for doing both of those because you can't with music you have the intensity and the fighting nature of things but you also have like the intimacy and the beauty and you've got like this attractive 24-year-old woman you know with this dim dimly lit lights on the stage with this fog machine and you can you can project power and intimacy in very
[SPEAKER_02]: real ways that people feel in in their bodies and in in ways that they're not even aware that they're being manipulated.
[SPEAKER_07]: They use what we're listening to this episode of the preacher boys podcast.
[SPEAKER_07]: I appreciate you for bearing with me.
[SPEAKER_07]: I know that I am sick as a dog.
[SPEAKER_07]: I look great.
[SPEAKER_07]: I died three days ago.
[SPEAKER_07]: And my radio voice is not quite dialed in and I really appreciate listening.
[SPEAKER_07]: But I really appreciate you listening.
[SPEAKER_07]: This episode was a lot of fun to put together and shout out to my special guest Rick
[SPEAKER_07]: Be sure to keep an eye out for his upcoming book titled worship warfare, how the songs of white evangelicalism became the soundtrack of the right.
[SPEAKER_07]: If you want to be the first to know when that book drops, just head over to RickPidcock.substack.com and join his newsletter there so you can hear when it is launched.
[SPEAKER_07]: But for now, if you want to see my full uncut conversation with RickPidcock, you can head over to patreon.com slash preacherboys.
[SPEAKER_07]: And here's some of the answers that didn't make this episode.
[SPEAKER_07]: But for now, enjoy the show, enjoy Super Bowl Sunday, and I will see you guys on a feature episode of The Preacher Boys Podcast.