[SPEAKER_04]: Hello and welcome to the Aquaman podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is an exploration of woman kind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here we discuss what it is to be a woman in the modern world while utilizing ancient and modern modalities in tandem to create a bounty of health for the body, mind and spirit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for coming, Julia, and joining the podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you mind just starting out introducing yourself and kind of explaining what a sexologist is to our community?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I really think a lot of people know what that is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: A sexologist is, I am a woman who,
[SPEAKER_03]: supports people to have great sex lives, but not just that, enjoy great sex for life.
[SPEAKER_03]: So not just giving those short tips and tricks that give you better orgasms, but actually thinking bigger picture, how can I support you to create a life that supports you to enjoy sex regularly for the rest of your life?
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's my mission and my purpose.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I work with people one
[SPEAKER_03]: facilitate group experiences and I teach courses and I love what I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah and your gorgeous what you do.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't imagine anyone better.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been following your work for actually quite a long time.
[SPEAKER_04]: In my early 20s you were kind of that first person who highlighted like the sexual realm and it was a group of my girlfriend and I who were just obsessed with you on your work and were like how
[SPEAKER_04]: amazing this this and it just kind of deepened our connection to sexuality and like that opening of that world in a really holistic connected way because I guess around that time as well there was like I don't know exploration of different sexual experiences that's felt a little bit explorative that was beyond our realm and beyond what we felt like we needed and you were kind of that beacon of being like no but what do you like what do you need?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your body telling you and your that beautiful nice connecting point so you're so gorgeous what you do
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you mind explaining your journey into sexology?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what was that journey like?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't, I can't imagine that this was a really typical, I don't think anyone who's 16 is like, I'm going to be a sexologist, that's what I'm going to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was that like here?
[SPEAKER_04]: What drew you to this world?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was always really curious about sexuality and sacred sexuality and I was like out from it as a teenager, I would spend time in bookstores and the section I'd go to would be like the sex section.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel a bit naughty, but I'd be just be looking in the books and reading and learning.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I go to secondhand bookstores and buy like, old books about Tantra.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I started my book collection really young.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was just like something I loved learning about.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I was also quite sexually explorative, like I didn't have sex lows.
[SPEAKER_03]: 18.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I waited till I was really like, I wanted to really love that person.
[SPEAKER_03]: And no one taught me that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just kind of intuitively was like, no, I don't just want to lose my virginity quite unquote for the sake of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sex always felt like something really like a special thing to me, like something that I really valued and
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I got really explorative and in my, you know, I was like taking all the things on the bucket list that I could in regards to sex and I was very open to exploring and it just came so naturally to me and I was always been that friend that people come to and open up about everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm always that person who I'll meet the stranger and suddenly they're divulging all their details to me about their sex life and their relationship even before I was a sexologist and so
[SPEAKER_03]: Fast forward, I had my daughter, I became a yoga teacher, I was always in search of something that I could do and bring to the world that I felt like I was really, it was really purposeful to me and I didn't want to live in like I didn't want to be in a nine to five job.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to work for myself and I studied psychology and then when I was a late, I started studying sexology and I did a masters in sexology.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I did that because I did a therapy session and I said to my therapist, I want to make a career out of sex, but I don't want to be a sex worker.
[SPEAKER_03]: What can I do?
[SPEAKER_03]: And we kind of worked on it over sessions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I watched the movie Kinsey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Have you seen that movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch her.
[SPEAKER_03]: You'll love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's about Alfred Kinsey, who I think his name was Alfred.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jesus.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope I've got that right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, he was one of the first researches in sex and did a lot of practical research.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I watched that movie and I was like, I want to do what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what led me to sexuality.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just launched into it, I just branded myself as a sexologist.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I did, it was a while ago, you know, maybe like 12, 13 years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there weren't many people in Australia doing what I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and here I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're so grateful that you're here.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess you've had a few experiences with birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have three children now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your first visit 23.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your second was, how are we with your second?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was on the cost of my 39th.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you've had your third around 40.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you've had three births at like kind of three different life stages as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so you've had this experience with birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess through through different periods of time as well, you must see the birth system change and how we treat women in birth and treat pregnant women differently as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And your sexual experiences much must have changed as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: How did that impact your practice of sexology and you were saying to me just before we started to record that you were trapped different women into your practice at different times and I think that must be really interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you mind telling us a little bit about that relationship and that energetic kind of postpartum sexuality intimacy, Evan flow throughout your sexology practice?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, gosh, where do I start?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have three children.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have, um, me is 19.
[SPEAKER_03]: All is four and Magnolia is two.
[SPEAKER_03]: So big age gap, um, I was 23 when I had my first daughter, and that was just a huge life-changing moment for me as a woman, like just everything was turned upside down in a really good way and I just questioned everything about life and
[SPEAKER_03]: um, she's just always been my greatest driver for the work that I do actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like you say, I've had my career has spanned over, I just lose track.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say it's about 12 years, maybe more, but with my career, I have changed and evolved so much as a woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that and my commitment to myself and my community and the people who support my work is that I will like only teach what I've experienced.
[SPEAKER_03]: not pretend I'm an expert on something.
[SPEAKER_03]: just because I've read a book or studied it but really teach like from that place of like I've been there and I get it and obviously I don't get everything and we all have such unique experiences especially when it comes to birth and pregnancy and that huge rider passage as women but yeah I am always so grateful when life throws me a few challenges and it has when it comes to
[SPEAKER_03]: and even deeper insight into what women, other women go through, and it means I can support them on a deeper level.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I could talk about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: So long.
[SPEAKER_04]: that's why you're here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could listen to you talk about it forever and I guess that is such beautiful thing and it kind of embues a lot of trust.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm more of a clinical, I work in the clinical space so it is like, what's the research hack me?
[SPEAKER_04]: I can imagine sexology is very relational and I guess that's why I wanted to have you want to talk about postpartum sexuality and sensuality because you've experienced that Evan Flore three times now and I'm guessing all of those experiences were quite different and maybe they had some similarities as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: and I just wanted to focus a little bit more on the physical before we move on to the other elements of sex postpartum.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I had a lot of questions around just after postpartum.
[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of women were asking me, how long does it usually take for women sexually to kind of feel like they want to have sex after postpartum and also like
[SPEAKER_04]: the physical readiness and how we can play with that because I haven't I can imagine that if you right after pregnancy, like I'm ready, but your vagina is not ready, what does that look like and what do you see on your practice and and what do we also see in the literature for like physical readiness and when we're actually ready to have that physical intimacy and when women actually feel like they want to have intimacy as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I guess there's that typical approach from doctors in the medical system which says like once you hit six weeks postpartum you're good to go and so then women assume they like they're kind of on this count down and often so were their partners they're like oh it's with five weeks we've got a week to go and your pussy's going to be ready you know or like I'm going to be ready and that just leads to so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: disappointment, expectations that aren't met and yeah like real struggles for women and for partnerships and just to put a number just to put a six week number on that just doesn't make sense to me but there's a lot in the medical system that doesn't make sense to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like the readiness of a woman to make love or if you just want to say have sex whatever after birth really depends a lot
[SPEAKER_03]: and the pregnancy that she had.
[SPEAKER_03]: As you know, when we're a, when we birth a child, we're not just birthing.
[SPEAKER_03]: of new life.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are literally every time, not just the first, but every time we birth, we are birthing a new version of ourselves as women.
[SPEAKER_03]: And most women will relate to this in that you have your baby, a lot of it's about the baby, but behind the scenes you're like, that was, you know, that it was like, it's like going into a portal and popping out and then you often question like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Why did I, you know, why have I been in that job the whole time?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not even, it doesn't even feel right anymore like it's slightly go through a portal.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so depending on the birth experience, it depends on when we're ready and when our body is ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: So as you can imagine, and you'd know like traumatic births, you know, from extremely traumatic to just like mine, a trauma can have such a huge impact on our sex life and our yoni and our womb, whereas if you have like my second birth was a
[SPEAKER_03]: a home birth and it was beautiful and we were speaking about this before we started recording like it was just the dream that birth like I was honestly I was ready to go the next day I mean I didn't because like I had like you know I was healing a tiny tiny tear with some like Nori strips and Manooka honey so that probably wouldn't have been the best best you know time to like have a penis gone side of me
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was really horny and turned on because I had this epic birth and it was really sexual and it was like, I would say it was quite orgasmic like I was touching my clip while I was in labor and so I was horny afterwards and ready to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then my third child was a completely different story with birth.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was premature at birth during a hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was quite traumatic, not necessarily the birth
[SPEAKER_03]: for my libido to come back online after that experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what you're saying is that there's a difference between like a physical trauma, so a tear, you're saying that you felt horny even though you had a physical trauma, but even in your second birth where you didn't necessarily have any physical trauma, you had emotional trauma and you had like trauma from the experience of the six weeks being.
[SPEAKER_04]: in that experience after you've had that birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it really depends on the woman.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't really matter where the trauma is physical or it's emotional.
[SPEAKER_04]: If there is some trauma there, it's going to impede how ready you are.
[SPEAKER_04]: And also your perception of pain as well in the pelvic region, I can imagine as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's kind of where we can get the vaginism or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know how much about the development of pain from trauma post birth for women and how that can impact intimacy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look, if a woman has a traumatic birth, like an extremely traumatic birth, and she's had an episiotomy, or she's had a really, she's, she's, she's, she's turned and then being stitches in a way that's just not quite right.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so many things that can happen or that like, you know, the babies had lost the word, you know, when they reach in and take it out basically with like tongs, I mean, it's not tongs, but, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: That, that's traumatic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and obviously that impacts us physically as a women.
[SPEAKER_03]: Women's store their pain in their womb, like any sort of emotional pain, we store in our womb.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe we do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so not only have we just birthed the child, had the traumatic birth, and then the emotional healing that comes with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if we don't have the tools in our tool belt to process all that, and
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all just stuck, it's all stuck down there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we go to have sex and, you know, vaginismus is the extreme kind of form of like our bodies just like no way.
[SPEAKER_03]: But so many women are puzzled because the doctors told them by six weeks you'll be ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is why this conversation is important and these conversations are important because we need to we need to speak about this more so that women understand that what they're experiencing is normal and that if you're listening and this is you, you can get through it, your libido will come back, you will be okay, you just need to have the right team around you to support you to heal from that experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was only last week, I think I was watching the news and there was this segment on about birth trauma and hospital systems in specifically WA and New South Wales.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think in the first three months of last year, the C section rate was 45.8% just in WA.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now they're saying, oh, you know, there's a lot of birth trauma.
[SPEAKER_04]: Women are saying it's the most traumatic place in the world is hospital systems.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to put the fear of hospital systems into anyone because there are beautiful bubbles across Australia, specifically in the hospital systems that do have birthing rooms, that do decrease birth trauma.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what I'm trying to say here is that the hospital is a place that is built for efficiency and birth is not necessarily an efficient process.
[SPEAKER_04]: associate like a statistics and timing associated with that and so I think it can be really quite daunting for women to go into that system, give birth within that system and then be told six weeks and you're good to go.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be really quite disorienting I can imagine and I love what you said before that your process is normal, yet your experience is normal and there is actually no normal, what you're going through is okay and the only way to get through it.
[SPEAKER_04]: is to go through it in a way, just going back to the physical.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are the things that you've seen in your practice?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what are some postpartum changes in sensitivity and comfort around intimacy?
[SPEAKER_04]: What a temporary, what usually stay around just things ever go back to pre-pregnancy or are you completely changed after your birth?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so unique to the individual woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we're all completely, I think we all will go through as women a huge change.
[SPEAKER_03]: mentally and emotionally, physically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our body physically changes.
[SPEAKER_03]: They gosh, my breasts from when I first was pregnant at 23 to now, completely different breasts.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a lot of bodily changes that we really need to work on accepting and loving about ourselves as we, you know, birthed our babies and breastfeed.
[SPEAKER_03]: What was your question?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to stay on track and I can get off track.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's pretty quantum conversation that we're having.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was asking about the physicality of the experience of intimacy and what are some senses that women will see change.
[SPEAKER_04]: So like I think women before pregnancy will go, okay, when I rub my clip this way, it feels like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is this certain, you know what things are going to feel like in your body.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then that changes during pregnancy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think a lot of women are going through that experience, especially with their first child.
[SPEAKER_04]: where after they've fully recovered, maybe they don't have any birth trauma there like, wow, my click doesn't feel the same anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: And how long will this last?
[SPEAKER_04]: And what's the sensory changes that women generally will experience post-partum that a temporary and will return back to a kind of a baseline and what usually just doesn't go back to normal after?
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess, I guess, as well, what are your personal experiences without if you feel open to sharing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look some common things that women I can share personally but from what I've worked with and you know just having many friends who've had children and some of the common things that can happen is that if you can feel you can feel either a sense of more numbness in your clitoris and in your vagina or the opposite you can feel really deeply more sensitive than ever.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a really, this is really unique to the woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me to generalize, this doesn't feel right because that everyone's so different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I could talk to six of my friends who've all had different bursts and some of them are like, I'm horny as hell since having my child and the other one's like, I haven't had sex in two years, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's so different based on birth, based on your relationship with your partner.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's huge because our, our, our, your knee.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pussy, I prefer the word pussy, but you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you like?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yoni, pussy, what do you call it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Either way, badge, but I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll go, we'll go with pussy, we'll go in between badge and Yoni and we'll go pussy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our pussy, what it needs to, to open is,
[SPEAKER_03]: for us to feel like our heart is open.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for our heart to open as women we need to feel safe.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to feel safe emotionally physically.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when we're in a relationship and let's go into postpartum and we've had
[SPEAKER_03]: any sort of birth, really, because even if you have the dream birth, you've still gone through a portal and then there's that postpartum time where you're coming to grips with like having this newborn and the lack of sleep and all that, when we have any sort of life-changing experience, we then met with managing our relationship before in a relationship and there's so many relational changes that happen in that time, and
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we don't have a solid relationship or if we feel unsupported or unmetting our needs, or if we have one of those really bad days in our partners, just like, offered work and doesn't give a shit whatever, our hearts can feel like I'm going to have to protect myself a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you, you know, right now, if I feel into that energy, it's like close, my shoulders are a bit, you know, I'm not setting up straight, I'm feeling protected, then imagine that in our pussy right then our pussy goes it's like a flower that just goes, no and so what.
[SPEAKER_03]: alongside the physical changes in our vagina, especially if we've had any sort of intervention in birth, there is that emotional change and those emotional needs that impact us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the biggest thing I actually see in women postpartum isn't so much the physical trauma.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the
[SPEAKER_03]: the lack of support that they feel afterwards from their partner and or their community or their just circle the friends that leaves them feeling alone and lonely in that post-partum stage that then leads to their pussy closing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'm not going to open my legs if I don't feel like I can just be seen and witness in this completely raw new open fucking vulnerable phase of my life as a new mother.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your body has changed, your mindset has changed, your like emotional subset has changed, your sleep level has changed, there is a lot of change and you have to kind of
[SPEAKER_04]: Have a lot of spaciousness in your relationship and trust to be able to go okay I'm going to come to terms with this new body with this new mind and with the fact that I there is another person here that we are responsible for and it does put a lot on to male partners and to the family and to the community around them to really support that woman in a very vulnerable time and it does make sense that there is a shutdown of a feeling of that sexuality postpartum if you don't have.
[SPEAKER_04]: that support and it's so interesting that you're saying that like that lack of support is just as corrosive to intimacy and that vulnerability and want for sex as a physical trauma.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so our next question is when do you believe couples should start thinking about intimacy again?
[SPEAKER_04]: So you said the six week thing is a bit of a fallacy and what I'm hearing from you is it really depends on the support network that you have is that kind of your answer like it really depends on the readiness and the willingness of that woman to want to have an intimate experience again and when she feel supported.
[SPEAKER_03]: this whole post-partum phase, I would see it as it takes at least two years at least for a woman to fully journey through like it's a two-year journey and I would say that personally for myself but I see it in friends and I see in the women I work with, you know, I had a woman recently who was said, you know, it's been eight months like, why don't I feel or, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been eight months, like eight months is such a short amount of time to recalibrate after literally going into a different universe and birthing this child and kind of coming out and being like, oh, I now I'm keeping this child alive too, as well as, you know, it's just so big.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think we've got to give ourselves some, some, we've got to be patient and give ourselves grace and and and you know our body decommissions our libido for a reason postpartum if our libido is down.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our body is literally if we're breastfeeding keeping a child alive like it's
[SPEAKER_03]: So much energy output and we are, yeah, we're literally responsible for keeping this kid alive if we don't look after it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It dies.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's a reality.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we've got we've got a this so much energy output.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's really, really normal and thank fuck it does our libido often drops to give us in all the so that we have all the energy in the world to give to that kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: or our children for me, like, three kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, I say, like, if I am two and a half years postpartum, if I was horny as hell in the last two and a half years, I would have nothing left to give my kids, because I would just be chasing the dick all the time, which I know that feeling, and it's like, I want it, and I want it now, like, give it to me, like a horny bitch.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I
[SPEAKER_03]: I would honestly, I'd be so fucking tired, like I don't get, I have a lot of vitality and energy, but if I was having sex every night, my body would be doing me, it wouldn't be doing me a favor.
[SPEAKER_03]: My body is doing me a favor right now in that my libido is lower than usual and I'm so happy about that because my kids are still awake at night, I'm still breastfeeding, I've been breastfeeding five years straight, you know, like I'm giving a lot in this season to my kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm having less sex, but if I was having more sex, like I'd have no energy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just sharing that because I think that's a gift from my body.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't see that as a negative love that I love what you just said it's a gift from my body.
[SPEAKER_04]: My body is keeping my kids alive.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the chapter of mine.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm in my right now and I accept it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's a thing a lot of women might be struggling with in pregnancy and postpartum is this isn't normal I'm letting my partner down and I think there's a lot of fear that women might not speak about oh my god he's gonna leave me he's gonna cheat on me he's gonna find it somewhere else and I think there is lots of fear around that and I do feel like women might be intimate with their partners sooner rather than later because of those fears those very real fears that women feel postpartum because you are so vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_04]: and to imagine you don't have that support is something so hard.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're saying, no, this is where I'm at right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to fully okay with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess hormonally as well just to explain to everyone, when you oppose part of them, if you're breastfeeding, your body is taking all of its constituents that usually make testosterone and estrogen that amplify libido and it's making prolactin.
[SPEAKER_04]: which is the precursor to other hormones in the breast that activate milk production and let down and oxytocin to bond bond with your baby.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it really comes down to the preparation I guess you do in pregnancy is to say to your partner, this is what we're going into it might take two years, are you okay with that?
[SPEAKER_04]: And just to have that conversation prior and go, this is what we're looking at here, what are we going to do before we get into that?
[SPEAKER_04]: But I can imagine a lot of people do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look, that's the important, like, that, you know, that leads into the importance of like going right back to the start and choosing a partner who you feel you're compatible with and having these conversations around values and like what, you know, if you know as a woman for example that you're going to want.
[SPEAKER_03]: a home birth or you're going to want to plan a home birth that you're going to want to breastfeed or as breastfeed as long as you can.
[SPEAKER_03]: All the important things that you value as a woman, you need to find a partner who is going to be able to meet you.
[SPEAKER_03]: and share the same values because otherwise it's just a recipe for disaster really.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you said before two years, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So two years is about around about the time that it will take for your libido to re-stabilise back to its new normal.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I guess the next question women by my ask is, okay, so when do I know when to ask for help and when to leave it?
[SPEAKER_04]: When do I just allow this space for it to become its new thing and for everything to stabilize and for me to work through any birth trauma that I have?
[SPEAKER_04]: And when do I reach out to someone and when do I start doing the work with someone to try and reignite this passion between me and my partner again and recreate that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look, it's never too early to seek that support.
[SPEAKER_03]: A, you know, that's why it's important to surround ourselves with like a both team who can support us postpartum and potentially a dueler who you can have there as emotional support throughout pregnancy both and postpartum.
[SPEAKER_03]: because then you've got that, those trusted people in your team.
[SPEAKER_03]: So speak or in your inner circle who you can speak to about these things and get that support.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's never too early to seek support.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you begin to feel like it's challenging your relationship or it's just challenging you individually that there is a lack of desire that your body feels shut down.
[SPEAKER_03]: then that's the green light to be like, okay, now's the time to actively go, okay, do I need to get therapy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do I need to find someone who specializes in birth trauma to speak about the birth and process it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because women come to me and they say, I haven't
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm cool with it and my partner's cool with it like should we be doing something and I'm like not if it's not bothering you, not like not at all but if it's creating challenges if you you know go to sleep every night thinking shit like what the fuck's going on with my body then and it's like creating a disconnect between you both and a disconnect between
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, with your relationship with self, then yeah, get some support.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm okay with this where I'm that and I'm going to feel okay with it where I'm at, but I guess the next question women post part of my ask is, okay, I am okay with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: My partner's okay with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I do want to have sex.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do want to start to reignite that.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are some gentle ways that women can start doing that and is that part note or would you suggest doing that alone first and then bringing your partner in when you feel ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a good question and something I didn't want to mention like obviously when we say sex in general we we skip straight to penetrative sex, but it's important to zoom out and look at intimacy as a daily practice and it doesn't need to be sexual intimacy, but you know being mindful that all the little things add up so making sure you're kissing hello and goodbye and this sounds so simple, but
[SPEAKER_03]: So many couples just let this slide.
[SPEAKER_03]: So many couples.
[SPEAKER_03]: Self-included can notice, like, oh, I just drove off, rushed out the door and didn't kiss Nick or Bart, a fuck's going on there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a red flag for me that I'm just not being present, really.
[SPEAKER_03]: And not prioritizing the relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: But so kissing, hello and goodbye, like having those morning and evening snuggles.
[SPEAKER_03]: going to that extra effort to like, you know, have a snuggle in the middle of the night if you wake up and just just giving a little spoon like the little things that can get missed when we are parenting in those early days like for us, we co-sleep so we have our youngest in bed with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like being mindful of like she's in bed with us and we're so okay with that because we know that's so great for her attachment and all the things and it's what we value is all that but also being mindful of like we can't let that get in the way of our intimacy so what what can we do daily.
[SPEAKER_03]: to nurture that and so start there because that then it's like all the little bricks like we're building a big house.
[SPEAKER_03]: The house is the amazing sex life.
[SPEAKER_03]: All those little bricks daily are building the house that leads to the long-term sex life, the great sex life, the deep connection and the great sexual intimacy.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the other thing to bring back in is the piece around like being there for each other emotionally, being able to listen, being able to be compassionate, understanding all those things.
[SPEAKER_03]: That leads to great set.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just like, I need to get my body back and my libido back and then our sex life will be back.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's so much more to it than that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, presence and paying attention to the little in-clings of connection throughout the day is the start to reconnecting with your partner.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess my next question to follow up is how can women start reconnecting in with their own intimacy on a more individual basis, because I think sometimes women maybe they aren't partnered, maybe their partner is fifu.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there are elements to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: How can women start to kind of feed their internal intimacy on their own?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are some practices and little things that you suggest?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's where it all begins is our relationship with self right and that needs to be right at the top of our priority list relationship with self relationship with partner kids our work that in my opinion that doesn't mean you're neglecting your kids, but it means that you are energetically putting your relationship here so that you have that
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, that solid foundation that your kids can kind of thrive in and grow up in.
[SPEAKER_03]: But above that is our relationship to self and what women can do to like reconnect with self-love and self-pleasure in this time is to make sure they're getting time to themselves in this busy time of life.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is quite tricky as a mom, especially a new mom, to get time alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: But even if that looks like you saying and this was something I did actually in
[SPEAKER_03]: my last two pregnancies, postpartum.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said to Nick, before you go out the door in the morning, you cannot just leave me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to, you need, I need to have 20 minutes solitude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to know, I have a shower by myself with no kid in the fucking shower with me or even in the bedroom.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I need you to just give me that moment in the morning to have a shower,
[SPEAKER_03]: dress, make the bed like the incense, set the house up nice so that then like all the things I know or a great start to my day so that then I can be the best mom and the best partner and all that and so it's asking for what you need and solidude is one of those things that I think we all need to put at the top of our priority list as a mother because then that leads to us being able to connect in with our body again even that that looks like moisturizing our legs every morning as a
[SPEAKER_03]: like taking care of ourselves, doing our, you know, putting our skin care routine, whatever it is that supports us to feel human and and like beautiful inside and out and then reconnecting with our sensuality.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think starts with just the basics of like reconnecting to our senses and bringing more presence and awareness to what feels good and what feels pleasurable in our body and it doesn't need to be sexual to begin with.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like how you
[SPEAKER_03]: prioritizing pleasure in daily life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Number one, you don't need to be masturbating every day to be enjoying pleasure and to be like prioritizing yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think women put pressure on themselves not only to have sex with their partners, but also to be like, oh should I be like getting off, you know, at least once a week like, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I haven't touched my vibrator for so long or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, it's just the same as sex.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't feel like it, don't put that pressure on.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, start slow, like, give yourself a breast massage or like, just lie to yourself and coconut oil and jump in a bath, like, make time for you so that you have a full cup.
[SPEAKER_03]: or at least a three quarter cup that you can bring to your family.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the first step.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, and I guess that answered the next question I was going to ask you is how you can shift from that caregiving mode and being touched out and always in a state of outward motion into an inward motion because I think it's very hard for women postpartum to go from mum mode into sensuality mode.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think what you just explained there, that 20 minute ritual in the morning.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just do 20 minutes in the morning or at night.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm just going to take deep breaths and I'm going to enjoy my senses.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there are some people I've spoken to who say the whole person purpose of being a human is to feel you have these five senses and there's so intense and you're here to feel them.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what do you smell what do you feel what temperature is the room?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your emotion?
[SPEAKER_04]: How fast does not slow my breathing in and it is just that 20 minutes of time that can really go that
[SPEAKER_04]: feeling along my leg that felt really nice or like I might bring that into the bedroom later or like I might try that a little bit later or all like that feels different and it's just reconnecting in with this new body that you have can shift you and I guess the next question I have is body confidence.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that can take a really big hit, postpartum.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a clinical psychologist on a couple of weeks ago called Stephanie, and she spoke about how women have a higher incidence of things like eating disorders and a lack of body cobblets after they've given birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that there's been many different reasons.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think societal expectations on bouncing back.
[SPEAKER_04]: for example, can put a lot of pressure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so how can women move through that without forcing anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: And how can women accept then your bodies and see the beauty and then your body's postpartum as well?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, it's a big bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's something like as such an individual journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then for me, it definitely has been a journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when I was,
[SPEAKER_03]: 23 I had my first daughter and I had this gorgeous 23 year old body and I had a pregnancy and they didn't even have to blink and my body was back and I was like Prancing around in the bikini and I was like this pregnancy things easy as you know, like I don't know what they mean about bouncing back on back, you know, like I was just
[SPEAKER_03]: just came, it was just all easy and so then I got pregnant later on at age 38 and I honestly was naive enough to think that I'd have the same experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh for me, pregnancy is like, I bounce back easy, you know, and everything that I wanted in that pregnancy as you should, but I think I really overdose on doughnuts, which is such a so random for me, because I'm like such a healthnut, but I was like jam doughnuts,
[SPEAKER_03]: and baked beans with so much grated cheddar cheese on top that it was revolting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like weird stuff I was eating and I don't regret any of it, but afterwards I had my child I had my son and I just couldn't lose the way to be honest and it was really challenging for me because I thought I would instantly drop it all and I didn't feel comfortable in my body and I was like doing all the things I thought I was doing right to bounce back basically
[SPEAKER_03]: if I were to be honest and to feel myself again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was a real journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: So just sharing about that, you know, it was such a journey for me to like, accept like, okay, this is where I'm at and it's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And my, like, my body has brought this beautiful boy into the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm healthy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just not the size that I was before.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it was big.
[SPEAKER_03]: for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm sharing that because like I get that it can be challenging that time when you've nipples just like a weird darker color and bigger and you know you've a giant of like feels a little different after birth and you've still got this big tummy but no baby in it and it's like oh it's a bit it can feel foreign and it did to me to look in the mirror and be like oh
[SPEAKER_03]: like, where's that fit-lane body that I love, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: So what I think what helps women is firstly doing that in a work to like really accept that that's where you are and that's okay and like that, you know, you have both the child and it's a huge deal and your body's going to change and that's normal.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then coming back to that self care piece, it's like really prioritizing self care and
[SPEAKER_03]: asking yourself, what do I need to do and commit to, to begin to feel more energized, to begin to feel more comfortable in my skin again, and that looks different to different people to different women.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's one thing to say, I feel uncomfortable in my body and I hate what I see in the mirror, but then it's another thing to like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Take action and be like, okay, how am I going to like feel better again?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do I need to do and commit to, you know, to like create the change that I want for me That's like having my natural path is amazing and my homey of path feel like a source and my acupuncture It's like I'm invest a lot in
[SPEAKER_03]: in having a team around me, you know, and like fine tuning the herbs I'm taking in all that to support my system and then it's like really fine tuning, eating well and moving and and like, yeah, taking responsibility for my health basically.
[SPEAKER_04]: As you were saying that something that happened early in my life came up, I had an old, I haven't a friend, she's listening to this, she's going to be like, oh my god, I know this story, I used to work for her, and he was pregnant with her first child, and after work, sometimes they go over and she would be, she was so heavily pregnant and she'd be sitting on the ground in the shower and she was like, this is the only place I have, peace.
[SPEAKER_04]: and we would have her work meetings on the floor.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I would be sitting on her bathroom floor and she's just covered in water.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, I feel like a whale.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel gross.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't feel hot.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I always like, oh, you are so hot.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, everything about you is bursting at the scenes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are just like motherhood and womanhood incarnate.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you look gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I don't, and I really felt that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, you look incredible.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that is just really speaking to the fact that we really depend maybe put a little bit too much pressure to get out into this scene needs met from our partner from ourselves and I think that is really an argument for the for the sisterhood and like when you're feeling that way to go to your friends because I think women just appreciate each other so much and see the beauty and each other so much and like you could show them the ugliest part of yourself the part of yourself that you feel so insecure about and there will go.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't see it that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it looks like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's a really beautiful practice that women could have as well as postpartum is to have that group chat and say I'm feeling really insecure about this and for them to go no it's all in your head girl like you you're incredible and I think that's beautiful as well and I've seen that in practice within my relationships and I've seen women react to that as well and respond to that and I think that goes back to what you were saying before as community and having that village around you
[SPEAKER_04]: and having that support network to kind of go and have that openness as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Look, I'm feeling this way about my body.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that okay?
[SPEAKER_04]: And people to go, yes, that is okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, gosh, it's so important to have those friends in your life in that time, who really get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, like, I could not go through pregnancy and birth and beyond without having my close friends who've also been through it or in my last pregnancy, it was so
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember we had a coffee together and she was like, I'm pregnant, please can you get pregnant?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I want to go through this for someone because all my friends are like older and you know, they've been there done that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, babe, I was about to tell you we'd just start
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, we went through the pregnancy together, postpartum, even just this morning.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've always said your, and was like, you weren't fucking believe that what happened yesterday, but what?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we like just supported each other through it in real time, and it's so valuable to have other moms around to get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And even just friends who yet, it comes back to that, what I mentioned about like choosing the right partner.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also like choosing the right
[SPEAKER_03]: friends to support you through these times and it's funnily enough in a meaning like a group mentorship for women at the moment and a topic that came up yesterday with friendships and you know the fact that you can sometimes you have to cut not cut but like say goodbye to certain friendships and often that happens and it's happened for me in each pregnancy I've lost a really good friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I still love those women and we don't have any hard, like it's not like we like cut each other out or anything, but there's been a difference, how do I say it?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, those friends didn't have kids at the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they didn't understand and they judged me for certain decisions that I made.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, yeah, it led to the friendship dissolving, even though we're still kind of in contact.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, we're just acknowledged like we're just on a different wavelength right now in this season of our life.
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I'm trying to say is it's important to choose friends who can support you through this time and friends who will do what you did, which is sit on the bathroom floor and be like you look fucking amazing like yeah and if you don't have those friends seek them out and if you have friends who are pulling your down or who aren't giving in that positive feedback or who's.
[SPEAKER_03]: values don't align with you then perhaps it's time to like spend less time with those people and move on.
[SPEAKER_04]: I absolutely agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the sisterhood is a really important aspect of pregnancy and postpartum and just to reiterate that again what you just said before is finding good friends and also letting the friends go that aren't really serving your needs right now in a loving way is really beautiful because yeah cutting them loose can create a lot more space so you're life to bring those people in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Changing topic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to talk about breastfeeding because I remember I used to run something called the Topless Tea Party.
[SPEAKER_04]: You would love this concept.
[SPEAKER_04]: We would take our topsoff, we would have a breast.
[SPEAKER_04]: We would see everyone's the Pothorra of different boobs that exist in the world and how gorgeous all of them are.
[SPEAKER_04]: We would talk about the relationship.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have with our breasts how they came in what they look like and then we do a breast massage and then we would make a mug that looks like
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not running them this season, but I will next season, but I remember we had a few women come who were in a journey of birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're about to give birth at pregnant, newly pregnant, and we've had we've seen the plethora of different boobs across that like stage of pregnancy to breastfeeding, and the relationship with their breasts can change so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know some people have such a sensory, beautiful, central relationship with their breasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then that changes a lot through breastfeeding, of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, as you said before, your nipples change color, the functionality of them changes.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're not as gorgeous, sexy place anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're a place of sustenance.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I've seen other women say, you know, I almost felt embarrassed when I was breastfeeding because it felt so good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I worried about an internal part of me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can we speak about breastfeeding?
[SPEAKER_04]: and sexuality and how they change in our relationship with our breasts throughout that period of time for women?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a big one because in whether you're breastfeed or not, your breasts are going to change after pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like during pregnancy, they change.
[SPEAKER_03]: They get bigger.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your nipples change color.
[SPEAKER_03]: They get bigger.
[SPEAKER_03]: They get, they can, they get a lot more sensitive.
[SPEAKER_03]: I only just said to a friend the other day who's pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: God, look at your boobs.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're freaking huge and I was like, I forget had just how big breasts can get.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you don't believe it until you get pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, I'm a small breasted girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't, I wouldn't consider I have big boobs.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I get pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, holy shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I forgot that I can, like, have these huge boobs.
[SPEAKER_03]: And how much they change.
[SPEAKER_03]: So but with that comes that, like, for a lot of couples, their partners in, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: these breasts are so big and juicy, but then the pregnant woman's like, ah, don't touch them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, Nick reckons, my partner reckons, it's like, God's gods.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did he say?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's such a tease or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, it's such a fucking, it's so not fair that like, you get these big breasts and then they're so juicy and big, but you're just like, like, don't, don't put your dick anywhere near them, basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're cock at anywhere near them.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such a tease because I some women are like, I make the most of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, I just get they get so sensitive that I'm just like, this is not, this is a new goes own you know, so we all have our different journey with
[SPEAKER_03]: of how much they've changed if it's in a way that challenges you, you know, like, my nipples have changed so much over the years and that's been a big journey for me because I'm like they've gone from being like this light color, you know, medium size, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: per key tips with these beautiful nipples and now they're like smaller.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no bounce to them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's be honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no bounce.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've breastfed three babies a long term.
[SPEAKER_03]: And my nipples are like longer because they've just been sucked consistently for years on end.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're a deeper color than they used to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like I am so embracing with that now, but it's taken me a long time to be like, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where I'm at like they've changed completely.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I think that was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: What you're really explaining is that the breasts are a remnant of the landscape of your experience with birth and also your relationship with your partner.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's really beautiful how you just explained how they can change so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just thought, wow, that's really gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that really just outlines that landscape that you've experienced with
[SPEAKER_04]: pregnancy with postpartum and with the with the flushes of them growing and then shrinking again.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think what you were just explaining is just your journey of your acceptance with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you mind talking a little bit more about how you came to accept your breasts and how they've changed throughout than there many different seasons?
[SPEAKER_04]: What practices you did to breast massage, take place in that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love breast massage like every single morning without fail.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will massage my face with at the moment with like this beautiful pillow that I'm using and then I use like body oil and I'll
[SPEAKER_03]: Massage my whole body with body oil like it doesn't take long, including my breasts.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I use I can oil that I know is obviously 100% natural.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that if my baby's breastfeeding, it's not just sucking off some gross moisturizer or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that helps me really to reconnect with my breasts, just having that physical touch.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like also being mindful of my, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: My, you know, how I speak to myself when I'm standing in front of the mirror because I spent every morning up to the shower in front of the mirror and instead of being like, oh, like, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, instead of saying that, which they're not, I don't think, but, you know, to me, they look different.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh my god, they've literally nourished.
[SPEAKER_03]: They nourished soul for two years.
[SPEAKER_03]: I breastfed through my pregnancy with Magnolia, and then went into breastfeeding Magnolia.
[SPEAKER_03]: A wien soul just before she was born actively wiened him because I was extremely tired, and I was like, actually, I cannot think of anything worse than tandem feeding two kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: throw me a bone, someone threw me a bone like I was just like, so I was like okay I have to actively win my baby boy which was kind of sad but also a new was the right thing for both of us and then Magnolia was born and then I've been breastfeeding her ever since she's three in June so like I just am like
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, isn't that a gift to my babies that I can give them that milk to sustain them and like their immune system like Magnolia's new that she's three in June?
[SPEAKER_03]: She was a primary baby born at 30 weeks, she was in Niku for six weeks, but quite a healthy primary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Since I reflect on this the other day and I reckon this is because she's been breastfed, but there's other factors involved since leaving the hospital, you know, 36 weeks old.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's never ever been back to hospital or a doctor, touched wood.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to check whether she's ever seen a doctor since.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's never been sick like she's had a cold and all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I honestly think it's breastfeeding and so
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just so thankful to my breasts that they can give that to her and so, yeah, just remind myself of what's most important here, it's not having the perfect breasts or the perfect nipples or the perky boobs like I had when I was 23, it's like, reality is I'm 43 and I'm still breastfeeding.
[SPEAKER_03]: So fuck you're to me and fuck you're to my dear, it's you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is the purpose of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've made this post a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's a different viral of the fact that you can sell boobs, but you can't actually use them for what they're useful for.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that really impacts women's self.
[SPEAKER_04]: How they see themselves and how they see their breasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you see babies that they dress for, they are just so chunky.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they just have all of these gorgeous rolls and these big fat pink cheeks.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just think it is pretty incredible that you have this volumptuousness of the breast that has literally fed another human being.
[SPEAKER_04]: And how beautiful is that?
[SPEAKER_04]: To go, wow, like you look like this because you gave up your vitality for another life.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like I think that's
[SPEAKER_04]: feel like that is the feminine in a way, giving of thyself for another life, but how you were speaking about it as well is I can only give so much of myself because I have to share myself around and I also need to keep some for myself, which I think is a very, I think that's a very complicated thing for women, especially once they've given birth because there is this
[SPEAKER_04]: feeling of women when they have children to give everything of themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what I've heard you say multiple times in different ways is to say, keep some for yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you've respired to a certain point and it's okay, it's okay to stop.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you need time to get off, that is okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that comes back to sexuality and to receive.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you are consistently overgiving of yourself, there's going to be nothing left.
[SPEAKER_04]: for you and you won't be able to enjoy your life and your sensuality at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm such a big advocate for women putting themselves first.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like literally, you know, having to advocate for themselves often and say like, I need time out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I, you know, last night I said to my partner or like a couple of days ago, I was like, I am at max capacity.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need time out like Thursday night.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go to a sauna.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're doing bedtime.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't say like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I say like, how do you feel about just so he feels included in like not just like you're doing yes and you're this so how do you feel about me having a sauna and like having that off he's like fuck yeah, he's always supportive of that but like
[SPEAKER_03]: I need that time to look after myself so that I can be a better mom and a better partner.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so many women, self-included, feel like we have to just give give, but then we get into this victimhood of like, oh, I'm doing everything for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm, you know, I like I do everything for the kids and like poor man, it's like, well, that's not attractive.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not going to get you more sex.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not really going to get you anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not a great environment for your kids to grow up with having a mom who's in that energy.
[SPEAKER_03]: take responsibility for the fact that you need time out to fill up your car and get get clear on what that looks like and then ask for the support to have that and you know it's important because it's not just filling up your car.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, your children are learning from you, whether they can talk or not, no matter what age they are.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're learning, like, you are a real-life transmission for them, and what you, like, what you prioritise in value in your life is what they are going to end up prioritising and valuing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if you want to bring up a daughter who values self-love and self-pleasure and intimacy and
[SPEAKER_03]: then you need to be doing that yourself as a mom so that she
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of downloads that as a blueprint.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything else that you'd like to say?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there like a final message that you'd like to leave with women postpartum who are entering or very well well established within motherhood about her sex and her body and what would that be?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's in final message that you'd like to give them?
[SPEAKER_03]: Gosh, geez, the pressure, not the pressure, not from you, pressure on myself to come out with some like one line of it just is like a mic drop.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want women to know that no matter where you're at in this journey of post pregnancy, postpartum or beyond.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're feeling a sense of challenge around your sex life or your libido or how you feel about your body or you're still yet to process the birth that didn't go to plan or wasn't how you expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really okay no matter what stage you're at, it's perfect for you and the first step is just to come into acceptance of like
[SPEAKER_03]: This is where I'm at and it's okay and it's so possible for you to feel great again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it really is possible to feel yourself again.
[SPEAKER_03]: You are never going to be that woman who you were before you gave birth.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not going to be that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's also something to come into acceptance of, but it is possible to bring yourself back from the brink of feeling really discombobulated.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I say that because I have come from a place only a couple of years ago where I had a traumatic experience with my third baby and and I'm going to cry I felt so like just so thrown by the experience and I don't like it's okay my like what is this about you know and.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, it feels like I'm reflecting on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I actually wasn't okay for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was really down.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember saying to my partner, like, you know, you don't get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't feel good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't feel good in so many ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I brought myself back from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I really like, I feel so great now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it took time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, like I didn't expect to share this or cry, but like if I can do it, you can do it too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I had a fucked up experience and but I'm back and yeah, and like I'm so grateful that experience has been so much gold that's come out of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's just what I want to say to women is like you've got this and this is all part of your journey as a woman trust in that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you'll come out on the other side someone different and you get to meet her and how exciting is that that we get to go through so many different iterations of the self and you get to read a discovery yourself again and maybe not to approach that with fear and instead approach it with curiosity and excitement.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, you know, I couldn't have done that without the support of like really epic women and elders in my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Jane Hart, Hartwick Collings, like I've, she's been so great and supported me one-on-one and like finding the gold in, in, in, like, not liars entrance into the world and my therapist and like, the women in my life who are just so supportive and so wise and like, so yeah, it's really important to seek help.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really important.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for sharing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's planning to women where they can find you and what work you do, what offerings you have at the moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, which is at Juliet, J-U-L-I-E-T, underscore Alan, A-W-L-E-N.
[SPEAKER_03]: and my website, Julietheithinalland.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: All my offerings are there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to work with me one-on-one at the moment, just because only work three days a week, and I take on limited people.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're lucky, you know, get on the weight list soon.
[SPEAKER_03]: and we can talk about one-on-one work, but I also offer different courses, like self-guided courses on these different topics.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in April, I'm opening like a really big new offering, which is going to be a great space for women to come into and work, like have close proximity work with me, and learn from me and evolve with me as you grow as a woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's lots of ways to work with me, and it also sell really great products.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so many different ways to spice up your life, spice up your sex lives, and support.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and reconnect.
[SPEAKER_04]: What a lovely conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you enjoyed this podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you did and you felt like it embueued you with some education and insight that you can not only apply to yourself, but maybe allow you to understand someone else in your life that you really love, please like, subscribe, share, do whatever you can to reciprocate a little bit of love for the pod so we can keep this good thing going.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you have a really gorgeous morning afternoon, evening, wherever you are in the
[SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.