[SPEAKER_11]: Hi, I'm Matt Leap, and I'm Vince Mancini.
[SPEAKER_11]: And this is Matt, you're so awesome, man.
[SPEAKER_11]: A madman podcast where Vince Mancini and I go through every single episode of The Madman, and talk about it.
[SPEAKER_11]: I want to say thank you to everyone who has been listening to this show from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_11]: You guys are day ones, are writer dies because you know what?
[SPEAKER_11]: Vince, now that this show is finally streaming.
[SPEAKER_11]: on HBO max.
[SPEAKER_11]: I like to think we had something to do with that.
[SPEAKER_11]: I am certain we did.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm certain we did because I think there was just a critical mass.
[SPEAKER_11]: So many people were like, guys, I want to, I want to listen to your madman podcast, but I don't want to get AMC plus or whatever.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then all of the big wigs at HBO were like, well, we got to help this little podcast out.
[SPEAKER_11]: How can I get a big a wig?
[SPEAKER_11]: How can I become a fatacat?
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'm going to stuff my mom by getting loose and late.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I'm getting a little spelt here.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to have to start streaming madmen, so they did.
[SPEAKER_11]: And now, yeah, there's hopefully a bunch of new guys who are listening to the world's only madmen podcast.
[SPEAKER_11]: So we think our writer dies.
[SPEAKER_05]: We, I mean, I think that's all that's left.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, or dies, because we don't say the right name of the title in our intro.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sort of a problem that I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll fix it at some point.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'll say this.
[SPEAKER_11]: I did fix it.
[SPEAKER_11]: I went on to our host, and I was like, okay, all of these episodes are no longer going to be named mad yourself a man.
[SPEAKER_11]: We'll call it that, but they're just called brackets madman.
[SPEAKER_11]: Kind of like last last time when we were doing the wire.
[SPEAKER_11]: It was brackets the wire and then the name of the episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm hoping that helps Yeah, we probably solved it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's all figured out in six months.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes So thank you to everyone who's listening and sorry to all of you who have been very impatient We've got a lot of comments people were very very impatient for us to start season four events Do you hear what they were saying no what what were they saying?
[SPEAKER_11]: They were saying come on.
[SPEAKER_08]: Let's go
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right, they were saying that, and we're back for season four, and we're so excited to introduce our first guest for the season four premiere of Madman.
[SPEAKER_11]: We have a wonderful guest.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know her from the amazing.
[SPEAKER_11]: podcast, bad faith and first time on this show.
[SPEAKER_11]: So everyone give it up loud, ladies and gentlemen and everyone else for Brianna Joy Gray.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for the warm introduction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm happy to be here offering up my cultural commentary that everyone.
[SPEAKER_11]: has a lot of appetite for everyone wants to hear what you hate or like bring it on I'm very excited to have you on we've potted before talking about political subject matter and also about pluribus on your podcast it's true
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we spent like 45 minutes talking about Purvis on a podcast that I was like, I thought it was only political.
[SPEAKER_11]: So I was I was very happy to be talking about television.
[SPEAKER_11]: That was very nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the second time in like a month that Purvis had come up on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, just in an episode with a moral philosopher, Emil Torres.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were talking about the sort of Silicon Valley billionaire extinctionist philosophy that's been infiltrating everything and of course that led us to a conversation about Pluribus which seems to be an analogy for everything that's happening everywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just living in Pluribus's world.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I haven't gotten past the second episodes yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like right now, I just think it's a show about digging a hole.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, because you don't like it, then it's because you just have a madman to watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, well, it's partly the second.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's mostly that I have a four-year-old, and so all my TV watching has to happen in the hour before I go to bed, and I haven't gotten to the part where of Clarbis where I entirely know what it's about yet, so it's just like, a lot of people slowly doing things, and I'm like, oh my god, the show seems really good, but I need you to tell me what it's about before I fall asleep again.
[SPEAKER_05]: It certainly filmed well.
[SPEAKER_11]: yeah exactly what it's about I mean that depends on who you ask and then you know if you want to know more about what it's about listen to the episode of bad faith that Brianna did with myself in Daniel Matee in which we talked about it and uh we all didn't ask Matt Lee what a show was about did you because that's a that's a titsa
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I have a buddy really clear, but guy whose podcast review or TD review show I'm currently on has a reputation for not being able to do descriptions of what shows are about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you got that right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, what's wrong with Matt's disability?
[SPEAKER_11]: No, I'm just saying it's not it's it's that I'm not smart.
[SPEAKER_11]: I know what he's saying.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's saying I'm not smart and Vince is saying he's smart because he does reviews He's saying he critic he real critic.
[SPEAKER_11]: I fake and you know what I say to that fully fuck that I've got that
[SPEAKER_03]: since are you one of those?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I've been kind of a lot of that recently.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a type that says, unless you've been writing movie reviews for advice for at least 15 years, you don't get to have an opinion on this film.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was always, I mean,
[SPEAKER_05]: Only when I disagree with someone, but no, I've always sort of been an anti that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I don't, I don't know, when I say, like, I write about movies, you know, you'll get an old head and they'll like start, start in on like, you know, with their deep, like, Fellini and Curacao opinions, and I'm like, yeah, I've seen a couple of those, but like, I don't, I don't consider it like, Yeah, I don't think you need to have like an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of a medium in order to have an opinion on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, let's talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, unless you're a disagreement.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, I mean, I'll use whatever I love it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you bring on another reason I was excited to get you on is because you've been the center of a discourse about the PT Anderson movie, one battle after another and it's been
[SPEAKER_11]: Really fun to watch hasn't it been I mean like the thing is I can't tell how much fun It seems like you're having more fun than everyone else everybody
[SPEAKER_11]: Everyone else is really, really mad.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone else's mad, he's just kicking back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I knew it for a second.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is literally my escapism, but we're all just so terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a, a concurrently 15 soul destroy news stories at every, yes, people of a moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I can absorb myself, and service my community by absorbing them,
[SPEAKER_03]: and a meaningless, ultimately meaningless conversation about the quality of a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, which I want to reiterate.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I said was the first 30 minutes were unbearable than it became a pretty good action flick.
[SPEAKER_03]: And people lost their minds.
[SPEAKER_03]: My critique of this movie is that the first, for 30 minutes, inventes a kind of a centrist-libbish politics that is both sizing the idea of like radical revolution and like radical right wing extremism.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pist in Paul Thomas Anderson's mouth.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, it's weird too because I thought would that be a bad thing I don't know if we know enough about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let me not King Shane Paul to have a P.T.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't know I think We don't like black girls We don't like black girls
[SPEAKER_11]: at the very least.
[SPEAKER_11]: I could tell from movie that he likes black girls.
[SPEAKER_11]: He says it a lot and writes it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I was the, I, you, at one point kept just responding to people who were mad at you.
[SPEAKER_11]: You were just like, my name is Jungle Pussy, and this is where a pollution looks like or some shit like that.
[SPEAKER_11]: I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for noticing that people got very mad when I simply quoted the movie they said they loved back at them But not not that is mad as they got what I simply asked them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said no hey no wrong answers What do you think is conveyed in the scene right now wrong answers you tell me what you take from this scene Yeah, yeah, and people
[SPEAKER_03]: Melted down.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't you know her real name is jungle pussy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I do know that What what are you taking from the same and what you taking from the choice of Paul Thomas Anderson to make the characters name the same as this Rap artist name right what to explain to me the choice hey, maybe there's a good reason I just what are you what are you think about this?
[SPEAKER_11]: right you basically did uh what anyone is supposed to do with art but everyone is so stuck in the know your interpretation is wrong that they forget the part where it's like you know art means different things to different people and you're allowed to have like diverting opinion and there's you're just like you're wrong about jungle pussy you fucking asshole
[SPEAKER_11]: That's the thing, they didn't have an opinion about the movie, it felt like it felt like they had an opinion about Paul Thomas Anderson Yeah, but you know, I'm just not, I have no feeling when we're the other about the guy I'm a huge fan of PT Anderson Ansive, yeah And I like, I, I really, I enjoyed the movie But I like, I will admit
[SPEAKER_11]: as someone who i've kind of let my politics ruin my experience a little bit in that like you know i'm spending most of the time going like god damn you johnny greenwood why why right why can't why do you have to like marion israeli and become like a liberal zine as a common man and then like the other half of me is just looking at leo going god he's such a good actor
[SPEAKER_11]: He did the Mexican whistle, the Mexican whistle, it was so good and then I was like, why'd you buy a hotel in Israel?
[SPEAKER_11]: Why did you do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that's not even my issue.
[SPEAKER_03]: The personal life of the actors and all of that, like, you know, it's a critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that wasn't even my critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's maybe there was also a whole lot of other people who were like, oh, you just, you don't like a complicated or negative depiction of black women.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like none of that was my critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't even principally making a racial critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mine was purely political and it wasn't even a critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: it was just an observation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you made an observation that the movie has called a movie's politics.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're not allowed to do that.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're only allowed to make critiques of media on podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, as someone who, one battle after another is easily my favorite movie of the year, possibly of the last like five or 10 years.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: More than TTA's other works during that time period.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's not better than the master.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, listen, I love them all.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love I love the master also.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, this one.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: This one was more rousing for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: But my point was, uh, I'm, I'm even more, happy about the fact that someone else could experience the joy of, of how noxious it is to get dragged by film Twitter, because
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like my whole every like two months for the last 15 years and I it's it's great for people But it's great for me to see other people get a taste of what that's like where you just have like 3 people yelling at you because you think Kelly Riker does fucking boring like that's uh, yeah It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_11]: You got called the rest is for not liking a night shomu on movie.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_11]: That's pretty funny.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's like the way you put the like those though.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the upside down world, the film trailer where it's like, you go anywhere else in the world and people like, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I'm lying.
[SPEAKER_05]: He kind of sucks, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And everybody's like, yeah, but there's like this corner of the internet where everybody has the letter boxed in their bio and they all think that the M.I.
[SPEAKER_05]: Chama on is still like a Spielberg level genius.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, first of all six cents is untouchable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I like the village.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like the village.
[SPEAKER_11]: Good, too Yeah, those are the two now one and disagree science.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a popular Science was phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_11]: I like science.
[SPEAKER_11]: I science was phenomenal But it was kind of like everything everything after the village Specifically everything after a lady in the water.
[SPEAKER_11]: What are we doing specifically everything after the six cents?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I saw that but yeah, go ahead
[SPEAKER_03]: And my hot take is that latest one with his daughter in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: The daughter was poorly cast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: He did her dirty.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he did her dirty.
[SPEAKER_03]: That being said, I was surprisingly into that movie ever.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was with it until the end when she had to like sing and stuff and like be and be the name of the main thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: The daughters, you know, mediocre acting abilities aside, they've milked a lot more out of that plot than I expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: Having the trapped in the stadium, thriller aspect of it, the big twist around Josh Hartnets character, the fact that they were able to keep the contains suspense of it,
[SPEAKER_03]: outside of that venue into their home and to kind of smartly write for way out of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I was I was pleasantly surprised by that movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to say the thing that damned it was just the nepotism of it all.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that definitely didn't feel good.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is a madman podcast about
[SPEAKER_11]: that this is a madman podcast.
[SPEAKER_11]: So since we only have 10 seconds before the intro, you have 10 seconds pre on a What's your favorite advertisement?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh 10 seconds.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, not my favorite, but this isn't the news right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you see the woman who came up with a jingle for Dr. Pepper?
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, Dr. Pepper used it?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, no.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I saw that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this woman just like saying into her mic on TikTok, like, I love Dr. Pepper.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to make that into an ad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Dr. Pepper very smartly, not because it was good, but because it's got viral potential.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: but bought it offer for like $2 million and flipped it into an ad.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard to say what's good in the world of jingles because it's like the first thing that comes to mind is wap or wap or junior wap or rosette and it's like yeah it's kind of terrible but it like I never forget it and I'm like all right it kind of works you know well so this is I love what you do for me toy Oda is what I think of I don't know that one but I like that
[SPEAKER_03]: That's got to be a 90's hit.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, it's here is the the the the actual uh, this is the tick to see.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, actual.
[SPEAKER_11]: I said the actual sometimes I slur here it is.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, this is hers.
[SPEAKER_04]: But theme song for Dr. Pepper and it goes like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dr. Pepper, baby is good and nice to do.
[SPEAKER_11]: So that's the whole thing and it's good.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and then Dr. Pepper actually took it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like honestly I was like who could argue with that?
[SPEAKER_11]: Who could argue with that?
[SPEAKER_11]: It was kind of perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know it's fine It's about now everybody now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going super viral, which is the genius of Dr. Pepper.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes Because everyone's like oh shit you got two million dollars and they're just like singing ads for their random local fish and chips shop in like Missouri
[SPEAKER_11]: It's just people desperately trying to be admin.
[SPEAKER_11]: Exactly, it's kind of really it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh man, it's like now I'm thinking if they made like modern madmen, you know, set in now.
[SPEAKER_11]: And it's just, it's just a bunch of, Pete Campbell asked people who are unemployed, but have a TikTok account in which they are desperately trying to get.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you know the victory lap that the ad industry industry took after the like country roads take me home Sing along in the Super Bowl last year?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: What kind of victory?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god, I mean the ad age profile from this Episode like the the level of that they do now is insane like there's like a like the guy goes to guys basically have like an HBO like after show podcast for their own commercials like it's what?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like the level of self glazing that they do in the advertising industry is unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_11]: Maybe we're in the wrong industry, man.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'd love to be glazed.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'd get at least self glazed.
[SPEAKER_11]: Just... Oh, Matt, it's so cute.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't... You don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: In like parody songs, it's never occurred to you to get into the jingle business.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, because that's on pure to me, you don't have the level of tolerance for bullshit required to be in that space.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can just tell you that right now.
[SPEAKER_11]: You have to understand that for me, it's about the art of it.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's, you know, if I were just any other person, I would any other normal person do the entire song?
[SPEAKER_11]: No, people would be like, I'm just going to do a chorus that's a parody song.
[SPEAKER_11]: couple bars not me full song for who myself for may well ten other people
[SPEAKER_03]: Matt, you know, you poo poo on the genre, but the greatest singer, the greatest male singer of our generation, possibly of all time, got to start in jingles, and do you know who that is?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Bruno Mars, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what the hell I'm thinking.
[SPEAKER_03]: The one and only Luther Vandras.
[SPEAKER_11]: Wow, I did not know.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wrote, um, I think for like a hogey, let me see.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a book, he wrote a
[SPEAKER_03]: He did, you should pull some of these up.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are the genos pizza commercial.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you hear them, they feel like Luther Vandros songs.
[SPEAKER_11]: Genos pizza Luther Vandros is what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, I will look it up.
[SPEAKER_11]: Here is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you see, yeah, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, this is genos.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I started in the music industry singing jingles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I want to hear the jingles pop in that jingles singer.
[SPEAKER_04]: That whole thing, the thing that I did show me.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't want to hear the documentary about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That documentary is really good though.
[SPEAKER_03]: You should listen to this.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I want to hear the documentary.
[SPEAKER_11]: But I want to hear the actual, okay, you know what I'll do?
[SPEAKER_11]: Juicy fruit.
[SPEAKER_11]: Hold on.
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, Juicy fruit.
[SPEAKER_11]: Juicy fruit.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of my favorite.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a great movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what I remember.
[SPEAKER_11]: 45 seconds.
[SPEAKER_03]: Juicy fruit.
[SPEAKER_03]: It gets right to, yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, Juicy fruit commercial 1981.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's nothing like a view from a mile in the sky And there's nothing like the flavor of juice Pick a pack of juicy fruit gums, so sweet taste and fascinating, so juicy good, there's nothing else like it Well there's nothing quite like the feeling when you're one And there's nothing like the flavor of juice
[SPEAKER_05]: Man.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's instantly just wearing like an earth tone puffy jacket and resting my arms on the mic at table and I can't like that distance transporting to the early 80s.
[SPEAKER_05]: That took me back to the simpler.
[SPEAKER_03]: So good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, a decent hand.
[SPEAKER_11]: Dude, those were the days, but this is not a podcast about those being the days The 90s or 80s.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, this is a podcast about madmen and we of course cannot start madman podcast without first playing the theme song Man
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to make you feel better.
[SPEAKER_10]: Choose a madman.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_10]: Drunk.
[SPEAKER_10]: Do you advertise?
[SPEAKER_10]: Podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to yell at me?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't sell man.
[SPEAKER_02]: Man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't sell man.
[SPEAKER_11]: all right ladies and gentlemen everyone else today we are of course talking about from season four of madman episode one public relations and Vince can you break us off a little piece of that synopsis
[SPEAKER_11]: I forgot to make it up on the top of your head.
[SPEAKER_05]: Dawn is getting profiled for Madman, or for Adage, Peggy and Pete have an idea for a publicity stunt, and Betty is going to Thanksgiving at her new husband's house, I don't remember his name.
[SPEAKER_05]: Henry Francis.
[SPEAKER_05]: He works for Governor Rockefeller.
[SPEAKER_11]: I believe he does or did, and that is correct, Vince, 10 out of 10.
[SPEAKER_11]: But Vince, what was happening at the time that this episode was set in?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think what you're asking me, telling me to do, or what you're trying to say.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_05]: We cannot evaluate a period piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: Divorce from a period context.
[SPEAKER_05]: We like to put some of that period context back in with a little segment that we call the News Machine.
[SPEAKER_07]: I want my ass from the Wall Street Journal.
[SPEAKER_08]: There is no big lie.
[SPEAKER_08]: There is no system.
[SPEAKER_08]: The universe is indifferent.
[SPEAKER_10]: That's news, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_10]: Fuck it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going all the way back to 1964.
[SPEAKER_05]: July 25th 1964.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know Matt's going to yell at me because the episode was set and Thanksgiving and I didn't do things.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's only to go back now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I already did it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going back July 25th, 1964.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is from the Monroe Michigan evening news.
[SPEAKER_05]: Keep in mind, I did not write this.
[SPEAKER_05]: A newspaper writer in 1964 wrote this.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not the nest, that's the only thing you always know.
[SPEAKER_11]: You always know that you're about to say some stuff that can be clipped when you do that warning.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure, all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Emergency is called in Rochester riots.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is a big story.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I had to bring it up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hundreds of Negroes rioted fiercely throughout the night in the upstate New York City, surging through the streets, battling police and firemen, hurling stones, looting stores, and overturning automobile sounds fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: No deaths were reported, but more than 80 persons were injured.
[SPEAKER_05]: City officials declared a state of emergency New York State Police moved in and helped local authorities establish an uneasy truce this morning.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's a few riots going on in 1964.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of civil rights strife obviously happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: So this was the part that was interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some whites joined in the melee.
[SPEAKER_05]: Apparently some tried to aid the police and others were
[SPEAKER_11]: that means swept into the riot as well as I'm in the middle of a riot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I better do something just start killing a cop.
[SPEAKER_05]: A reporter said gangs of white teenagers took advantage of the confusion to join in the looting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Violence spread quickly throughout the neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wait the two miles
[SPEAKER_03]: I love having 1964 version of like black curtain Katrina victims, looting, white curtain Katrina victims, forging for food is like more honest in 1964 where they're like none of the white ones are looting too.
[SPEAKER_11]: What I like is that they're like they got caught up in the confusion of it There's a little bit of like they're white, but they were very confused and they just were like, I guess it's legal to loot now I stumbled and put this transistor radio in my pocket.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, no, I No, I own a record player
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's another story about LBJ and Barry Goldwater meeting to discuss the racial tensions that couldn't agree on much But honestly like most like I always go into this like trying to get the big like contextual society Sure stories, but then I get distracted by like the weird smaller ones, which are maybe more honest They're way better and most of this most of this one were like just straight up horrifying Tell me
[SPEAKER_05]: Tiny boys or deal on window ledge.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is from San Francisco Chronicle.
[SPEAKER_05]: A 25-year-old janitor teetered for more than half an hour yesterday on a narrow ledge outside his San Jose flat, holding a knife at the throat of his 18th month old son.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, so first of all that very much confused me because I thought when they said 20 slides Make sure this by the way like they got easy.
[SPEAKER_11]: They got a selfie in not a selfie Oh, okay, no, because they did not phone cameras yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, they did it well police fireman and ambulance Doards stood below frozen and horror jack van doy to come Dangled the half-clad baby boy banging him a gate occasionally against the window frame
[SPEAKER_05]: Van Doidecom appeared on the second floor window at about 7.30am, clutching the baby in one hand and the knife in the other.
[SPEAKER_05]: He screamed wildly to see his wife, Mary, who had been taken a few hours earlier to Santa Clara County Hospital to await the birth of their second child.
[SPEAKER_05]: Officers and civilians tried vainly to persuade Vendoy to come to Unlock is barricaded front door and release the baby.
[SPEAKER_05]: Vendoy to come hurled his knife at Art Mendoza, a city engineer standing below with ambulance attendance.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, when the knife clatter to the sidewalk, Vendoy to come drop the baby to the living room floor, grab the flower pot and threw it at the engineer.
[SPEAKER_05]: At that moment, police kicked through the barricaded door overpowered Van Doidecom and took him to jail where he was booked for assault with intent to commit murder, traumatic injury to a child and resisting arrest.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was transferred to Agnew State Hospital for Psychiatric Examination.
[SPEAKER_05]: All back when we had those.
[SPEAKER_05]: Van Doidecom, a janitor for the County Welfare Department was said by police to have a past record of drunkenness.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I, I, I feel like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the wife, the wife is giving birth when all this is happening to their second child.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when people when like conservators are like, you got back in the day, people stayed married that didn't get divorced.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are the kind of couples they're talking about.
[SPEAKER_11]: I just want to see, I just want to see my wife give birth and it's like, okay, Cole-Cab?
[SPEAKER_11]: He's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's some confusion.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's a bit of a context missing from this as to like, why he can't do or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, well, that's, you're right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That is horrifying.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, another one.
[SPEAKER_05]: That doubts on Father's son suicide in quotes.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a rising feeling of certainty yesterday that Leonard M. Jenkins, 44, an aircraft mechanic, had not carried out his threat to kill himself and his four-year-old son Harold in a plunge off the Golden Gate Bridge.
[SPEAKER_05]: Although the coast guard has been out for two days looking for the bodies of the father and son, California Highway Patrol Sergeant Jim Shanahan said he was convinced the boy Jenkins took a hike with the boy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Jenkins' father Raymond of Stockton said he had been told his son recently $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $1, $
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that comment, I think applies to most of the stories you have here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, I mean, like I'm telling you, people were feral in the 60s.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, why was everything done from great heights?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why are we at window ledges and bridges?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like so far, every story is about someone really high up doing something real bad with their kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so by the way, I hadn't, I haven't watched my men for like a decade.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was trying to speed watch through season three to get some context for the episode that I watched just as the first in episode four season four, and I saw the episode where they're on a business trip and they fire alarm goes off in hotel and
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was thinking like, okay, so apparently this is how it used to work, they didn't have interior stairs and everyone had to climb down a fire escape, which maybe seems obvious given that it's called a fire escape, but in my head it was for like
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, maybe they just weren't fire proofed and they had interior stairs, but they weren't safe and now we use the interior stairs because they're safe But regardless that these two stories has been thinking of that episode too because apparently a lot of action which is happening on fire escapes Yeah, all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe they just thought the fire was inside and they needed to use the fire.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know
[SPEAKER_11]: whenever I go to New York and I look at those firescapes all I think to myself is like that's just a new place to hang out.
[SPEAKER_11]: Why aren't people hanging out there?
[SPEAKER_11]: I had one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hung out.
[SPEAKER_11]: I hung out.
[SPEAKER_11]: I was gay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, well, I don't see enough of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: A little more on this story before I get to the last one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Shanahan said that for the last six or seven months, Jenkins had been undergoing psychiatric treatment in San Francisco.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he said Jenkins had been quote shell shock during World War II when he served as a Navy Bombardier Gunner and his present therapy is being financed by the Veterans Administration.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, every that's pretty ominous.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really like they don't want him to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really like, let's not have veterans funding action.
[SPEAKER_11]: It is rendering like, uh, if you want to know what programs to defund and privatize, these are the ones.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, good old good old liberal bastion.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything looks pretty ominous Janan said, but I'm convinced Jenkins didn't do any jumping from the bridge.
[SPEAKER_05]: He probably did exactly what he has always wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go to Mexico to become a Beach Comer.
[SPEAKER_11]: To become a Beach Wonder.
[SPEAKER_05]: Beach Comer.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's combing the Beach Beach.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know, there was a name for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like, oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like hopping the rails.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a very famous, very popular establishment in Cape Cod, called the Beach Comer.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you're walking around the street, you see people in these Beach Comer.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like when you see people in black dog, T-shirts, and you're like, oh, you have a bourgeois lifestyle, you grab going to the cape, the Beach Comer ones are the same vibe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow, that's sick, that's fine, finally this one is just a I guess they they had a column called the question man where they would just ask like passers by questions Question man should you reveal the past to your wife By the way, I like how vague that is like as your wife just like dropped here Don't write this question
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Just ask all these people and he's the one person who says, no, yeah, she can't know my past.
[SPEAKER_05]: Should you tell your wife about your past?
[SPEAKER_05]: First answer, George Wing, a accountant, two Stony Brook Avenue.
[SPEAKER_05]: You should tell your wife.
[SPEAKER_05]: Your wife should know all about you.
[SPEAKER_05]: She should know where you've been and what you've been doing.
[SPEAKER_05]: She should know where what you are going to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: You might as well tell her they always find out.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it comes up later, it's no problem then.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been married four years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everything's fine with us.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to marry four years.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know why I've everything.
[SPEAKER_11]: She knows where I am.
[SPEAKER_11]: She put a tracking device on my car.
[SPEAKER_11]: She just cares about me.
[SPEAKER_11]: She wants to know what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_11]: Always.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_11]: She looks at me while I poop.
[SPEAKER_11]: She says close door is best sign of bad marriage.
[SPEAKER_11]: So I keep door open.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Second answer, Fred DeSmith, janitor, 415 Ashbury.
[SPEAKER_05]: No sur, you go tell about your past and you might just wind up with no future.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the way I see it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your past is the janitor, is he a poet?
[SPEAKER_05]: I know, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I know, it's like goodwill hunting.
[SPEAKER_05]: your past life is just what it says past life telling about it might mess up your future real good they're both better off for getting about the whole thing start over all new like both of them with the nice clean slate that's the best way I love this I'm I'm on the side of the janitor what why do you need to why is my wife got to know everywhere I go every time I need it to take a sandwich it's a very saline song so to answer there
[SPEAKER_05]: Arthur Ghanier, correspondence clerk, honesty is always the best policy, that way you have nothing to worry about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nothing to bring up later.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been married eight years.
[SPEAKER_05]: My wife and I have known each other since we were teenagers.
[SPEAKER_05]: We took music lessons together.
[SPEAKER_05]: We were learning to play the guitar together.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she knows all about me.
[SPEAKER_05]: All of these people were cheating on their wives.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Robert Richmond, partner, C&G Muffler Shop.
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell about your past heavens know, you'd be asking for trouble.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been married for 10 years.
[SPEAKER_05]: Happily married.
[SPEAKER_05]: We went together for a year before.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's enough past for any wife to know.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the future that counts.
[SPEAKER_05]: A guy can have a pretty lively past and then straighten up.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love the guy owns the muffler shop saying heavens know.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't expect things or a rough Bronx dude.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that rules.
[SPEAKER_11]: yeah there's a few more but i think i'll leave it at that well that's the story i'm glad we didn't read uh the one says girl tosses boy from fire dyes um glad we didn't read that one uh so now everyone is properly contextualized to understand this episode and uh before we begin i of course need to play a little bit of the jury per d story
[SPEAKER_02]: uh, based on a song they came out the same year that this episode is set in.
[SPEAKER_10]: Like here, it seems Betty replaced him With one Henry, Francis Yeah With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis With one Henry, Francis
[SPEAKER_09]: I love you, I love you, I love you Fending James Wrens and they all
[SPEAKER_11]: They ordered chicken kees and it's got the butter and it's presence anyways You can let's eat a bed.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you need a bit for it.
[SPEAKER_11]: You listen that full song later.
[SPEAKER_11]: It ends with uh, there is a ham in What's it?
[SPEAKER_11]: Penny fucking I don't know it's about the I do a sex about the I don't need to know
[SPEAKER_11]: yeah so enjoy uh the sugar berry ham song uh okay we're talking about this episode it's the first one of season four last time we left our our our boys our mad men's uh dawn was
[SPEAKER_11]: getting divorced.
[SPEAKER_11]: He was getting left for Henry Francis and they started up a brand new business.
[SPEAKER_11]: They got out of the under the thumb of the brits and they declared independence if you will.
[SPEAKER_11]: So now we are back.
[SPEAKER_11]: It is the future.
[SPEAKER_11]: It has been about a year since the events of last season and we have a whole episode about it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Let's get general thoughts on this particular
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, the show, especially the first few seasons are all about the 50 sort of turning into the 60s and, you know, that didn't really happen spiritually until like the 63, 64.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the main sort of narrative thrust of this one, the main narrative arc is Don getting profile in ad age and he's he's still thinking it's the conformist
[SPEAKER_05]: 50s where you don't talk about yourself.
[SPEAKER_05]: He present a good image and everybody sticks to themselves but he comes to realize that no this is the naval gazing 60s and you got to talk about yourself.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all about the individual and that is sort of the main arc of the episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Good episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're doing some art.
[SPEAKER_05]: They got a few fun camera shots and there's like a lot of
[SPEAKER_05]: lore in this episode like there's at least four different things that they sort of just lay out there with a no explanation of these things 60s things things in the show like such like Jeff Atherton they just lay out there
[SPEAKER_05]: random name there's that there's a random name.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's just a guy named Joey.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was there all of a sudden you guys that guy Harry speaking yet issue which is very subtle of course that I didn't really catch it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was always been hangout and Hollywood I sort of get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I love that shit.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Anyway, good episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: Brianna, what'd you what'd you think about this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have to confess again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's been so long since I watched Madman.
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched the episode first because I'm a good student and I do my homework.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I found myself sort of like lacking context for to mean very much to me.
[SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, you know, inferred from context that I guess they left and started the room for, but I didn't remember any of that happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh, how did, when did, when did Don and Betty break up and why?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I, that's why I went back and I watched, I probably got through like nine, see nine episodes of the third season, but I didn't get the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't actually see that that happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, again, I still have the context for this set up of the affair and all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what I'm sleeping with that kindergarten teacher.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That element just will teach her.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you ever get found out with that or not?
[SPEAKER_11]: No, he never gets found out.
[SPEAKER_11]: But he gets very close to being found out.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think he is like cumulative guilt.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he's like he's he's cheated so much that he knows she doesn't need like a specific proof anymore.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right, and by the time that she breaks up with him, she's doing it not because of one specific incident as much as she's doing it because of, yeah, the cumulative amount of times that Well, it's not because she's decided she's in love with the politician.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right, that's that's basically why, but she pretends he's not her first crush necessarily.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's say
[SPEAKER_11]: No, not her first crush, but definitely enough of a crush for her to sort of make up a reason for them to get divorced.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, she just starts in the, you know, I don't even love you anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there was, there was some nice moments where they traveled to Italy and she gets all dolled up and she's speaking a tie and then she's seen me in like a woman with some interest in substance, the likes of which
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, you could you could understand why she would have captured Don's attention in the first place.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, outside of their house, they're like, when they're back in their home area, they're like too trapped in their own shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's immediately, like, her friend comes over and she's like, I hate our friends and I hate everything here in this charm bracelet of the Colosseum from the gift shop at the Hilton.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is the saddest thing I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, don't I thought you were a classy guy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I was like, I was like, I was like, or is this like a weirdly tacky gift that you went to the gift shop?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, the Hilton.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, that is correct.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're not, I don't think you're a snob because this is, this is like, it's not, it's his friend.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like his wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's a wife and this is a business trip.
[SPEAKER_03]: He works, he works for Mr. Hilton.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: To be so clear, and ostensibly is doing well in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a gift shop.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not getting the sense of this is the gift shop from like, um, what's the show?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you know, the one, the HBO.
[SPEAKER_11]: I like that that music.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, white lotus.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this is the Thailand white lotus where there's like $40,000 necklaces that get robbed out of the gift shop.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a little, this is like a little like pewter Coliseum charm that you put on your bracelet.
[SPEAKER_11]: He got it from the airport to be clear.
[SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't just night was it was night was the airport.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it was the airport gift shop.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is 1960s Italy though.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe there wasn't that many non-perishables that you can't bring home a pizza pie.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can't bring home a like a pasta.
[SPEAKER_05]: A nice apostrophe.
[SPEAKER_03]: You brought me in the trip to Italy.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also the thing where they have to stay like, Hilton calls me.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, oh, what a bummed you up to a sweet, but I need you to understand how the real man lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, what the hell is this cheap shit?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, he's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was an asshole.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he was getting fucked with by Connie the entire time and that's Paraselton's grandfather He's a piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, did you see did you see Paraselton and AOC?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry This isn't this kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but AOC AOC I was cool in the timeline this morning and I thought I was having a stroke because
[SPEAKER_03]: AOC was tweeting out Paris Hilton talking about how incredible her advocacy is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, wait, is this AIA what's happening?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it turns out Paris Hilton does advocacy for, I think, like, child act.
[SPEAKER_03]: The people who have been exploited, I think children.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because she was shithin' off to one of those camps for, like, back to the rate it needs you.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was completely sincere and I don't mean to make fun of it, but it was like a weird team-up that I do not expect on the timeline.
[SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know that Periscillton was doing the scared straight shit with her.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's fucking crazy.
[SPEAKER_11]: I didn't know that there was, you know, they were doing, she was doing political, or not even political, but just doing like public advocacy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which is kind of ironic, because like her whole public persona was like, it inspired probably like countless parents to be like, you know, you need to scare your kids straight so they don't turn into Periscillton.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's almost like it was, it was an ad for those scared-trade camps.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, I did not know that, but that's, yeah, that, Connie, her dad, I think, or grandfather, grandfather, is in this episode, or not the main great grandfather.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, now I have us talking about an episode in season three.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still hot.
[SPEAKER_11]: Look the people came for Madman talking we're doing it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, yeah, I I like this is like a season opener You know, I think this episode works sort of in a self-contained way even if you don't
[SPEAKER_11]: you know, fully know what happened with, you know, last season, right?
[SPEAKER_11]: I like the episode being about the use of PR and using the press as just another way of doing advertisements.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Don has to discover like being a brand is basically the theme of this episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, he discovers that he is an influencer and that with that he has responsibility outside of the quote artwork that he makes, which is really funny for anyone who does any kind of art at all.
[SPEAKER_11]: It just reminded me a lot of,
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, having to post clips of stand-up online because you can't just do stand-up anymore.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like if you do stand-up and don't, you know, post it, did you really do stand-up?
[SPEAKER_11]: And so, you know, this is his version of that is having to like talk himself up to an adage guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm the guy who did the glow coat commercial.
[SPEAKER_11]: I invented it!
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so you have to like sell yourself to everyone else.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I really enjoyed that.
[SPEAKER_11]: I like go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm saying no and I like the on the flip side of that Peggy using the press to do like a gorilla campaign for a canned ham.
[SPEAKER_11]: So that was fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I liked that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I liked that part of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Donna is such an interesting character.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is a well-written and be was character for everybody who has accused me of just generally liking flat characters who are or nothing but good.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is how you do it because Donna will have these moments.
[SPEAKER_03]: not to take it back to that fire escape.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to get worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he comes on the fire escape.
[SPEAKER_03]: He sees a cell, naked in the half dress in the hotel room with red.
[SPEAKER_03]: He chooses not to say anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as a watch, it is a viewer.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're kind of thinking this is like a weird kind of, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: like a benevolent tolerance that is endearing me to die, like this man, he's not exactly a progressive, but he cares about good work and good people, and he's going to prioritize that as a value over whatever homeful be of the times existed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cut to like three episodes later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: His face is crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not for being gay per se.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for allowing like the fact of him not engaging in sex with a man who a client who's come on to him and jeopardizing the contract means he's out on his act.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right, yeah, because Dawn is, is bad number one that, you know, he's like, listen, you need to show better discretion and part of that means like he sort of blame Sal for being kind of gay coded and he's like, well, people can tell and that's why that happened, but he's also really mad that he didn't put out for
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it sounds like, well, what if I were a woman, what would you have said to me?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, it depends on what kind of woman you were, what kind of past you have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if you were a trap, keep putting out for free, but put out for the company.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just like a weird kind of logic and morality that totally tracks for Don.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even if you would judge it in real life, and so why did I bring this up for this episode?
[SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, we were just talking about.
[SPEAKER_11]: the advertisement him selling himself as a brand.
[SPEAKER_11]: Peggy also doing Ken Ham's.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, the way he got so mad at Peggy and then putting this stunt on was never what those moments where I'm like, I never quite know, I think Dot is gonna zig and he's agged.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, because ultimately it was a successful stunt, like, it
[SPEAKER_03]: They had to pay them off a little bit more if you I can't tell what a hundred dollars is in 1950's money Like it been it doesn't seem ultimately it's that much But there's if there's there's been to counts for the week and like a previous episode We're like 80 bucks each like okay, so you're gonna do 80 bucks on cigarettes and horrors, but you can't have like You know a hundred dollars to a couple of women to keep you from suing you over a stump that actually made the the client happy at seams.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, did it did it's job
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the ex-factor with Don is like, yes, he's like morally complex, he's very, you know, business first, but like the ex-factor is that he's also just hung over and means sometimes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he's just in drunk.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like happened this episode, he's like in a shitty mood because he's like hung over and mad.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: He is like currently like mid fight with his wife.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's going to yell at Peggy at some point.
[SPEAKER_11]: That seems to be, or he's going to, you know, freak out on a client like he does in this episode, which I absolutely love.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, like they deserved it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We can talk about that.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we'll get to it, but his ego in this episode is so funny because he exists as someone with both a gigantic ego and someone who wants to play everything mysterious, almost for the sake of his ego because he knows it makes him seem more, yeah, it makes him seem more like
[SPEAKER_11]: Half the fucking appeal with him.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's learning that mystique only takes him so far in this episode because it's the six now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Yeah, I know guy like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm I did a guy like this like you never quite knew whether he was genuinely mysterious All right, it just wasn't anything going on in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Like are you intriguing and you contain multitudes or are you just kind of a dim job like what's happening?
[SPEAKER_05]: So would you stick everyone who loves her?
[SPEAKER_05]: But I feel like that's what's happening with Kristen Stewart as everybody's like oh wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so like mysterious and cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like she is man, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, there's a few people who are beautiful like male or female and they have you know this silence to them and some people are buy into it and I think others
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, I'm someone like Jared Leto is like the parody of that because I think most people recognize that he is just like a clownish buffoon Yes, but there is like a certain he has like a solid you know 30% approval rate like that never changes Trump like like There's a certain percentage of the population that just think he's amazing But I think most people are like yeah, he's kind of a buffoon But I think there's a lot there's a lot of people that are not that extreme with it I think some people think that you know
[SPEAKER_11]: I look at Chilobuff as like the ultimate example, like Chilobuff is someone who like if he hadn't you know, been revealed to be unabusive dude, I think people would still kind of consider him to be sort of this like mysterious, you know, guy and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but I'm just saying we know has a bit of this I was going to say I was just going to bring up I feel like the caprio gets a lot of credit because like here's the thing like it doesn't It doesn't require you to be super smart to be an actor and probably it's like better for you to be kind of Do and I think he's like a great actor and probably doesn't have I think he's a great actor I think he should have gotten Oscar for killers the clarinet I don't think that we've got enough attention paid like he played that was a very tough role
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, I'm not a hate or like, I think it's a very tough role and he, like, no, I don't think anybody else could have done that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, played weirdly sympathetic while being the most he's gonna have that much going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is not, you know, criticism of his acting ability at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's the greatest actor of our generation.
[SPEAKER_03]: That male actor of our generation.
[SPEAKER_03]: That being said,
[SPEAKER_03]: He got kind of turned out and that Jennifer Lawrence interview Did you see that like the team the actors or whatever?
[SPEAKER_03]: When Jennifer Lawrence, I think is exactly who she thinks she is right.
[SPEAKER_03]: She is she is funny She is like no formal education or do you think she is smart as a whip funny has like a weird ADHD kind of confidence Where she like everything she thinks comes out of her mouth I very much identify with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She we are the same birthday five years of Paris had a big deal and she
[SPEAKER_03]: She starts asking these questions that clearly no one has ever had the boldness to ask him before, and he seems to like genuinely not have an answer for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then in quick succession, we got the Nicky Glazer stand-up at the Golden Globes where she does a joke about Leo, which is kind of about him dating on girls, but is mostly about how the only thing we know about you is that you date on girls, so forced into this being the joke over and over again.
[SPEAKER_03]: because he doesn't, and is he mysterious?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is he a black box or is there actually nothing going in there other than Hubble Hubble?
[SPEAKER_03]: But need a 25.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's a person also like a little bit of Michael Jordan where he knows that like he doesn't want to have too much of his personality out there because like maybe or are you giving Michael Jordan too much credit?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a good question too.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I, I, I listen, I think he's a great actor.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know why you buy, uh, you know, hotel in Israel.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to have to Google if that is for sure.
[SPEAKER_11]: I, I am also sort of thinking of Bono.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, oh, yeah, but, uh, you know, there's a dumb guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a perfect, another perfect example of sort of, but with done, done draper, I do think that like,
[SPEAKER_11]: what I like about the the show at least in the revealing of his character is having this pass and whatnot is that you kind of learn essentially why he's KG he presents himself as KG because I'm from the Midwest and I'm not supposed to talk about myself but we all know the real reason is because he doesn't like the idea of people digging into his
[SPEAKER_11]: uh... previous life uh... you know he it's like the janitor said in that one news uh... item it's about the future it's not about the past uh... oh my god is that producer-print flyberg oh no yeah i'm here uh... i'm sorry i'm so sorry to interrupt but we do have some ads to run fiddly and hard of capitals is really hotel right well we got to run those ads so everyone please listen but stick around because we will be right back
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're back as mad yourself man the I probably said it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, that's it.
[SPEAKER_11]: I was going to say an episode, you know, one of season four.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: You say something.
[SPEAKER_05]: I probably said it too many times already, but I do feel like Dawn is like this good metaphor for America in the 50s where it's like don't think about.
[SPEAKER_05]: how we're like rednecks who killed a lot of Indians just think about the, you know, think about all the good stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Think about the future.
[SPEAKER_05]: Think about exactly the fact that we're a world power now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do not dig into our past at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it doesn't matter how we got here.
[SPEAKER_11]: Just the point is that we're here and we're the heroes of our own.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, so yeah, the episode starts out with Don, um, sitting with a journalist, uh, one leg of journalist from, uh, what is it, add weekly or whatever, add age, and, uh, Don is not giving any of his information out.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's not giving him anything at one point.
[SPEAKER_11]: They, um, like, uh, you, you get a shot of the note pad that the journalist is writing on and it is just straight scribbles.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's the shorthand that I never learned how to take.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, is that real?
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was wondering, that's like, I mean, that was my interpretation.
[SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering what was going on, uh, and yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: So he's writing, I guess in shorthand.
[SPEAKER_11]: I thought he was just like, it was there more version of him.
[SPEAKER_11]: I thought he was like, he was writing like, no, no, all work in no play makes no play.
[SPEAKER_11]: I thought it was a six version of like drawing tits on something because you, you know, can't, don't know how to do your homework, but you want to look busy in front of someone.
[SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, he's not giving him anything and he's just, you know, saying like, I'm from the Midwest and I'm shy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and my parents said it's not polite to talk about yourself.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, my parents, who was a prostitute and a farmer, raped her.
[SPEAKER_11]: So it's not polite for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: My dad got kicked a death by a horse.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Or my dad had a horse related death.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I like that they really leaned into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like it's kind of formulaic and cheesy to have Roger Sterling come in and have like an amazing one line or never seen.
[SPEAKER_05]: But he had like four in this episode and Oh, there's never seen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, good.
[SPEAKER_11]: I loved it, it's so funny, yeah, like Roger comes in, we find out that this is a, you know, a Korean war that, uh, and with one leg, and at one point Roger sits down and just says this, I wouldn't like, I was so cheap to came to afford a whole reporter.
[SPEAKER_11]: And this,
[SPEAKER_11]: This is only one of several, one like it, man.
[SPEAKER_11]: So much, so many good ones.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I said, this was going to give me things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I obviously, sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just went back and watched season three, and the episode when they run over the foot of the British.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was about to take all their jobs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like,
[SPEAKER_03]: This guy is like the most promising man in the history of advertising.
[SPEAKER_03]: He loses a foot.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, It's over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's useless to us now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, those ears are Cambridge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who cares?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's only got one foot.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's half a man.
[SPEAKER_11]: He might as well have had his brain and his foot because that shit is done.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I was thinking about that exact same scene like the way that this older generation in the 60s views illness or disability as a, a, a, a, a personal failing.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, a defective character is so funny.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's awful, obviously, in real life.
[SPEAKER_11]: But on the show, it just comedically really sets the tone for what the 60s was like.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, at one point.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is very Donald Trump coded also.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, I like my prisoners not captured.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like my soldiers not prisoners before.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like what they can raise their arms over their head.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's like more just like all over high five again.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'll call like brother who died, who was just like, yeah, he died because he was weak, and it's just like, oh fuck.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and because of that interview, going poorly, shit like,
[SPEAKER_11]: It kind of hits the fan a little bit for Sterling Cooper Draper Price, the new agency.
[SPEAKER_11]: So the point where they lose this one account, like the high-ly account gets lost.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Roger is, you know, chastizing him for this, and he has another one-legged guy Joe Kyrtis.
[SPEAKER_08]: I learned a valuable lesson, stay away from one-legged reporters.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was thinking about that, who's he to criticize anybody?
[SPEAKER_07]: It's not even really a joke, it's just like it.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's so crazy.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're a criticism when you're only a one-letting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you lost your leg fighting in a war, like I'll lose it.
[SPEAKER_11]: something about his callousness and the john slattery delivery i mean he's just so hilarious and he gets one more in after talking about this date that uh dawn went on.
[SPEAKER_06]: There was some good news.
[SPEAKER_06]: James friend found you to be charming.
[SPEAKER_06]: She liked you.
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you should have final peg leg peat.
[SPEAKER_05]: does he just couldn't help himself, you know, can't it also, I mean, it does, you know, I know we're not supposed to yearn for a simpler time, but I do appreciate that you're boss return with a V go ahead.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's that, you know, like the way what Nationalists go when he has to turn.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's hard not to be jealous of a time when your boss could just completely rip your ass for fucking up at your job and then be like Oh, and by the way, I got you a date the other and the tomorrow night.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, in the same breath.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean like they most of the shit they say to Dawn like in this episode between like Bert and Roger Like that's they say it in the context of like you're close to being fired and then
[SPEAKER_11]: But you know, but then it just goes away, then it just like, oh, yeah, but we're still I mean we're still buddies and we're even as even as like divorce attorney says this To how your balls you enjoying yourself
[SPEAKER_11]: I want a weird way to ask that.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's the worst way.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry, but that lawyer is entirely too ugly to be asking about the Andre Prison Balls.
[SPEAKER_11]: I try not to be superficial, but I'm looking at that lawyer going, I smell your finger.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, can I get you to smell your finger?
[SPEAKER_11]: That's what it's gross, I don't like him, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: What a make of this date because we haven't talked about this the actress from True Blood, whom I like.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is that what she's from?
[SPEAKER_11]: She's from True Blood, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know the name of the actress and I know that she looks like Virginia Mayo, which I looked up and she does.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Occupella movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got to tell a movie about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dishperfect, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: My wife is training him in giving like the vaguest description of a thing, and then I have to be like, Oh, it's her brook brain brook in the same way as mine is.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, she was like, one guy from the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what the, with the trees, and I'll figure it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's called Marital Shared.
[SPEAKER_03]: You remind me of my wife.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, this is like half of my life.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love it well she's great in this I love this storyline for Don because this is we get a half of Don's story inside the office and the other half outside the office you know his
[SPEAKER_11]: In the office stuff has to do with this new company that they've started, they were able to get out of the, from under the thumb of the, of the brits and start their own ad agency and the time life building, they pretend they have two floors and, you know, we're hearing about these accounts are trying to get they're trying to get this, uh,
[SPEAKER_11]: Swim suit maker accounts.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am slightly curious of how they did the second floor ruse like what is the deal there?
[SPEAKER_05]: They just told me they have two literally just tell people I have it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, that's on the second floor when you don't have a second floor Got it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love that's a great cruise.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's very smart.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, this office is in small.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's double the size that you see
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I worked with this woman I worked with at one point like when she got hired She like sort of made references to having a child even though that she she did not have a child But she did that in case like whenever she needed an excuse to have like a Like you're employer looks at you leaving work because of your child more fondly than if you just say you know for some other reason
[SPEAKER_05]: So she like freaking for so hard and I'm gonna go get plowed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you know Jake he's having a bad day today.
[SPEAKER_11]: Jake is a dog.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that is really smart.
[SPEAKER_11]: But in you know outside of the office, Don's storyline kind of revolves around his home life.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I think the having a fake second floor is a fun little what do you call it in like smart guy terms when it comes to art not a metaphor, but it's a theme.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, well, the theme throughout of sort of like what you're presenting to the world versus what the reality is.
[SPEAKER_11]: And you see that with Dawn on the state in the same ways.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like there's a fake second floor with Dawn.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, oh, there's a fake recent divorce A who wants to, you know, be in love and meet someone, you know, that's like a little bit of a bad news to get nursed back.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then you find out what he really wants
[SPEAKER_05]: but yeah she was great character because I mean like they nailed like sorority girl archetype number one and they also do the thing where it's like you can't tell if Don is like thinks less of her because she doesn't seem to have a lot going on or if he sees like little flashes of her maybe having something going on.
[SPEAKER_11]: it's hard to tell the way I read this date was he is being dragged into it like he does not want to do this date but then Roger you know is essentially you know begging him and is like don't worry about the whole thing with her being friend of my new young wife like she's a gymnast.
[SPEAKER_11]: And he's like, okay, well, I am.
[SPEAKER_11]: I am horny.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, I feel like on the date he was, he was nagging her a lot.
[SPEAKER_11]: Did you notice like he was, uh, you know, um,
[SPEAKER_11]: She would say, like, oh, wow, you know, you're asking a lot of questions and he was like, I don't have to ask you anything.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's being very like alpha.
[SPEAKER_11]: I thought to her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, she's thinking, okay, I'm going to have the upper hand because I'm a hell guys are, and I know how to play them like a fiddle to convert a guy who has maybe,
[SPEAKER_03]: Only interest in one thing into a husband and she's like he's he's a classic guy Who's kind of playing hard to get slash just wants to have sex with me But it's an interested in more and I know how to deal with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know how to get my arms zoom.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know how to hit it But he's just an alcoholic old man
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not playing hard to get like he's not like, you know, he's also just interest you can ever capture He's like barely conscious He's like divorce say Yes, propped up on the other side of the table trying not to have a heart attack He's at age like 41 Yeah You know there's this kind of adorable plout power play where she's like
[SPEAKER_03]: I know how to do this, but I know how to handle it like that.
[SPEAKER_11]: She even, like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like
[SPEAKER_11]: that's a trick she thinks she's like three steps ahead of a game that he is absolutely not playing right yes exactly yeah no I know that trick he's like you mean the trick where I convince you to fuck or yeah or the one where I shove you inside and follow you in
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that she also, in that moment, she's saying that she understands that she wants him to come inside, but is, but also more than that, her rational mind wants to see him again, wants to go on dates, wants to like, she wants to be taken seriously.
[SPEAKER_03]: She wants to be taken seriously.
[SPEAKER_03]: She is dating to Mary.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I think she's clearly
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, with her, especially in that moment where he's she's like, please, you know, take, take my week.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, that I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't want to do this right now, but please maybe, you know, after new years, we can, you know, we can see essentially telling them when they can, you know, go all the way.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I love immediately after she leaves, she leaves the car.
[SPEAKER_11]: and uh... he's just like all right uh... cabbie take me to the corner of fucke and sucky yeah and just just like like he's either going to a bar or two like a cat house but he is he is immediately out of there
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, yeah, it is, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_11]: I also like that she's like an extra in the opera But there's like a fancy word for it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, super.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I love that.
[SPEAKER_11]: You just like I'm a super and then the explains I know it's like someone in the opera who's like on stage, but doesn't sing is it what do they do?
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like they pretend to it's an extra
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and she dangles all these, she's like, I can get you an invite if you want like it's like a chat like she's offering all these things like He should get excited about like next time we could have sex.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he's gonna go down on the whole house.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't care about that much like yeah Next like I can get you an ticket to the opera like he's an adult like he doesn't want or need a ticket to the opera My ticket to the opera
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, there's something very related, like, yeah, there's a girl, a certain kind of woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, it reminds me, it made me think, is this what Betty was like?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that even like.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, that's exactly what I was thinking actually.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that one of the things, uh, and, I mean, we'll see where this goes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So Betty was like, I can trick him into marrying me and then I'll find out who he is.
[SPEAKER_11]: right exactly actually that they're both making the same mistake which is to not be like no seriously tell me where you came from and what your parents did right and he's showing everyone exactly who he is a hundred percent of the time because women just want to project they want him to be something else yes because he's mysterious and handsome
[SPEAKER_03]: age age old tail.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right, Taylor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't go for Leonardo da Caprio.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then he kind of resents them for it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he's mad because he's like, but I don't do who I am.
[SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, that is him trying to deal with his, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, love life and trying to get Roger off his back.
[SPEAKER_11]: By the way, I love that Roger is trying to invite him over for Thanksgiving And he does that by saying this.
[SPEAKER_07]: We need someone white to carve our turkey I can't Roger that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, there's like so much in that one sentence.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, what do you need?
[SPEAKER_11]: Someone white, don't you mean?
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, honestly
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't get it the first time but then the second time I watch I was like, oh, he means because they don't have any other friends other than people that work for them
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is that what he means?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I got from it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I presumed, like, I mean, he would, I just, I would presume that he would carve his own dirty.
[SPEAKER_03]: He would carve it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, what I got was like, yeah, we don't want to go to her family's house.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't go to my family's house because, you know, they're my ex-wife's kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I guess, yeah, I just assumed that he's just like, oh, I'm talking to someone, time to be racist.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's kind of how I took it to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, it was both that scene, sorry, again, in season three, we're there, uh, what has happened?
[SPEAKER_03]: There, maybe it's when they were having the party for the, the fundraiser for the guy that, uh, Betty, is it marrying?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with Henry, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the girls are standing around and they're talking about some civil rights thing that I've just had.
[SPEAKER_03]: The March on Washington has something.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, in front of them.
[SPEAKER_11]: And they're like a mess.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carla and Carla's like coming to take their coats and one of the women's like, the South must be really terrible if they're the Negroes are just sitting upon DC like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what my father says in the South, it's more like 1863, not 1963.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like patting themselves in the back, being super aggressive while Carla's taking their coats.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, it's,
[SPEAKER_11]: It's giving it a hundred percent that and you know, I think you're right in that it is the only other human beings who will be at his house are all people who work for him for him.
[SPEAKER_11]: They're all domestic workers and they're all probably non-white at the very least.
[SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, Don and thanksgiving feature heavily in this episode
[SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so Thanksgiving break is like a good portion of this episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: Henry takes Betty and the kids to his Thanksgiving.
[SPEAKER_11]: And we meet for the first time Henry's mom, who is an awful evil woman, and I kind of like her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, she, she, she, she evil, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: She correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's, she's, I think, what she is.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're a son married a silly, she's a silly woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: With two braddy kids, who's mean to those kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: The kids are braddy because she's not a good mom.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, I mean, you're not wrong, but there is this, here's a couple of clips from Henry's mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: The traffic was simply murder.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's because that's what's become of this country.
[SPEAKER_06]: Everyone has two thanksgivings to go to.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, already she's talking shit about her being divorced and then...
[SPEAKER_11]: I've raised children to my life, Henry.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're terrified of her.
[SPEAKER_08]: You don't know any of the people you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I know what you're seeing in her, and you couldn't have gotten it without marrying.
[SPEAKER_07]: Why can't you give her a chance?
[SPEAKER_07]: She mobs you.
[SPEAKER_06]: She's a silly woman.
[SPEAKER_06]: Honestly, Henry, I don't know how you can stand living in that man's dirt.
[SPEAKER_11]: Look, she's right in a sense that like Betty is silly, but I also think that she's
[SPEAKER_11]: She's a level of snob that I think we we have seen before on the show, but it's been it's been a minute I guess so I'm just like, oh damn I forgot that like maybe even for Henry like you know We talk a lot about like well-bred people on the show like Dawn obviously is like pretending to be from a class That he's not and it's one of the sort of resentments that I think Betty has of him is that he clearly You know is
[SPEAKER_11]: Poor brain or whatever and so you're like, oh, yeah, and Betty meanwhile is You know, got a father who resents Dawn for the same reason like oh, he's trash and has no people On the like waspe pecking order.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think Henry might even be above Betty.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm not really sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's hard to tell.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean It's hard to be released because because of the divorce.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_11]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it felt to me less even class-inflicted and more about their values.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it's being divorced, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, I'm no Puritan.
[SPEAKER_11]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_11]: But I love where this is going.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, there's my,
[SPEAKER_03]: Children are a big responsibility.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't have to tell you too.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah, yeah, we get it.
[SPEAKER_11]: We get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to write some of them's the breaks.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what you signed up for.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's you decided to get married and have these kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to sit around and stick it out and release until they go to college.
[SPEAKER_03]: Them's the rules.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm saying that in 2020.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I certainly people definitely had that attitude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he wasn't a beating her.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing was wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, per se.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's totally hadn't a fair like it's not you know He was doing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What we're young enough to have children that are still in the house I think that's like the main thrust of why she's clowning him.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like oh, you want to know you wanted to date a young chick And now you know now you have no kids to take care of a bunch kids.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, have fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: Baby
[SPEAKER_03]: She's got a fresh baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's like placenta on in that baby's hair.
[SPEAKER_03]: Still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, hey, hey, mad her private.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a sick dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a sick.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was palming her bump outside the restroom and somebody else's wedding.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a twisted situation and the mother has every right to weigh it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: You weren't wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: They have like a newborn baby that we just never see.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, yes, in this episode, the he goes over to take the kids to his apartment for the weekend and asks about the kid and she says, Oh, Carla took him for the weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't like to see her.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I would like to see my child and I was like, wait, wait, wait, slow down.
[SPEAKER_05]: Carla just took your bait like yeah like your your barely weaned child and then and by the way like I don't believe Dawn for a second either it's like oh yeah you wanted to take care of a little bit yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he sure said thank you yeah he was never planning to take the baby right this is why like I'm in the middle of this debate
[SPEAKER_03]: He, because Betty's like, well, you weren't going to take like, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: You weren't going to take them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to do something with him because we're leaving the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go on a date while you're off with the kids.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had to arrange childcare from my date.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't going to just hold on to the kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can see him for 10 seconds before you went out the door.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I would be stuck with the baby for my evening.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_11]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_11]: That is, exactly what happened.
[SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering because I was just like,
[SPEAKER_11]: Man, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_11]: I wonder if she's doing it at a spite, like, nah, this one is not going to be raised by no Don Draper.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is going to be raised by Henry Francis, the aid to the mayor either of those folks are raising a baby Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So in 1964, and they're not going to fucking acknowledge it until it's like six
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, so, you know, Don is dealing with his home life.
[SPEAKER_11]: His home life is sad is shit, by the way.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like, he shows up to his apartment.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it's a first time we see his, like, Don, the Bachelor apartment.
[SPEAKER_11]: And he has a, like, made named Celia.
[SPEAKER_11]: and Celia exists as a character to just say all of the sad do like a bunch of sad exposition where she's like hey I made you pork pork chops you probably won't eat it because you're an alcoholic and then you just-
[SPEAKER_11]: And she's like, where's my shaving kit?
[SPEAKER_11]: Put it back where you saw it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, well, you left it on the floor because you're saying, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But one of the least relatable things to me is this trope of the alcoholic bachelor who needs to be told to eat, because that was me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was divorced, the maid would be like, hey, you have half a pound of chamey on your shirt right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, can you stop fucking stuffing junk food
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's true for me that would be there was there's no way they'd be like you're not eating anymore They'd be like how many McDonald's have you had to do that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this reminds me of my roommate that I had After college who like I left the house at like 11 11 AM and he was ordering Chinese food and then I came back at like Dinner time and he was on the phone with the Chinese place again and he said hey You know what I ordered earlier today?
[SPEAKER_05]: Can you just do that again?
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, is this the same room bed who is eating cereal out of the frying pan?
[SPEAKER_05]: And don't do it for one, that's different one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But he would have eaten cereal out of a frying pan.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: He would have.
[SPEAKER_11]: If he could have gotten it on seamless, he would have.
[SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, so, you know, Don is leading this kind of sad life.
[SPEAKER_11]: And meanwhile, Betty and Henry, at least to Don are
[SPEAKER_11]: kind of living the dream like she, after Don takes the kids back to his house, he is waiting for another hour for her to come home with Henry and just sits around stewing.
[SPEAKER_11]: you hear the dog bark and then you hear Betty and Henry show up and they're just laughing like a really funny joke has happened.
[SPEAKER_11]: He looks at his watch and I've never seen a more angry John Hamm on this show where he's just like they're late and they're laughing and they're probably smell like sex fuck them.
[SPEAKER_11]: And he takes that moment to essentially say like hey you guys
[SPEAKER_11]: And that's when, you know, Betty starts, like in my mind, the character of Betty changes in this season.
[SPEAKER_11]: I would say upon rewatch for the first three seasons of this, I became a lot more pro Betty because I was like,
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, Dawn is this filandering guy who's like put her in multiple positions in what she feels lonely and she feels like unfulfilled and unhappy and humiliated by him.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I was trying to like figure out like, why did I like end this series with this negative view of Betty?
[SPEAKER_11]: And then this season starts and like, oh, this is it.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is once she's with Henry, that's when we start looking at her as this kind of like,
[SPEAKER_11]: flighty uncaring mother, I think.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like she had her issues in the previous seasons, but I feel like now she really starts being just sort of a negative caricature of like everyone's, everyone's toxic ex-wife.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's that, but also like you can sort of see where she's coming from in the sense that like she felt
[SPEAKER_05]: like she did what was her objective in life, which was to like find a rich husband and settle down and like get married and make a nice home.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now she's kind of like, why do I have to move out of this house when you're the one who fucked up?
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we're she's sort of like- Is that how the went down?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the last I saw, she's fully having an affair with the mayor's aid and dawn's doing dawn shit, but like it hasn't gotten caught in anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but he would also just disappear for like three days at a time.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then not, I'm going to be like, I don't have to explain myself to you.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: And he kind of like essentially begged for forgiveness to like come back after, you know, she essentially found out that he was cheating with Bobby Barrett who was Jimmy Barrett's wife.
[SPEAKER_11]: and uh... who's that this he's like the comedian who like uh... he's like in a commercial uh... and he's the uits chips guy yeah he's just one of the actors and he's a man comedian he's a man comedian and uh... and he ends up he likes to roast everyone stuff and so don't fucks his wife and then they carry on and affair and beddy eventually finds out about it and so he is like
[SPEAKER_11]: Banging for forgiveness in season three only two eventually cheat again almost immediately after she takes him back in And simultaneously, you know, she's falling in love with Henry.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't think You know, if I'll be honest why don't I remember if there was anything other than that wasn't there's Rachel there's a mid
[SPEAKER_11]: No, I know, I know all of that, but I'm saying like that led to the divorce.
[SPEAKER_11]: It was, was it just residual resentment?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, she also found out that he's not Don Draper.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that was.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it wasn't even so much that it wasn't even so much that he had a secret identity.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was that they'd been married for God knows how many years.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he'd never told her about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: She was like, he'd betrayed the contract where she was sort of like, okay, if I trick this guy into marrying me, then he'll open up and tell me who he really is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he never did that, and so I think that was part of why.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about the future, not the past.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right, thank you, thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I thought that re-contextualizes Betty a little, because I got to say,
[SPEAKER_03]: I was really feeling teamed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know when I became such a misogynist.
[SPEAKER_11]: Mince Wright's girl.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: So such an insult.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I'm like listening to myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: You gotta stay married!
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: No matter how many times he cheats on you, you signed up for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's 1964.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess hitting you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even beat her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you even complaining about?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no bruises.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like how I'm sounding right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That being said.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I've definitely was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: this you are not allowed to live in this man's field like honestly the grandma's right like I would also be mad if I'm paying for a mortgage and awesening I'm sitting in your right like Westchester prices and this full grown man is living in my house
[SPEAKER_03]: with my furnishings that I paid for, with my wife and my bed and I'm babysitting or they come home late, I was hot.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was hot watching that, I would have been pissed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have pissed.
[SPEAKER_11]: I agree, I'm not saying that in any way, she, I think, I think Dawn is right to be like, hey, we agreed on October, you need to get the fuck out.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think it's why I'm like looking at Betty's point of view here is being like sort of like needlessly harsh like she has transformed into sort of a bitter person by this point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't the divorce guy usually pay for the house that his kids live in, though, isn't that just part of the deal alone?
[SPEAKER_03]: But not with the new man!
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not once you get remarried, so this is like, what is good for welfare is good for rich people.
[SPEAKER_03]: The classic dynamic with welfare recipients is that you're not allowed to have a man living on the house, or you get kicked off the government door.
[SPEAKER_03]: So why?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
[SPEAKER_11]: I love doing a period piece where you're like, well, my politics are also going to be a period contextual.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying, if you have seen the 1970s classic, Claudine, which you all should, with a young James Old Joan, who plays a garbage man who she starts dating, who they have to, she brings her gifts that he finds in the trash, and she has to hide them when the welfare lady comes over to do the inspection because if she buys anything new or there's any evidence of a man being on the house, she no longer receives the benefits that she needs to take care of her many, many children.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: The way this works is that we do get remarried.
[SPEAKER_03]: then you're new husband is now responsible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your old husband doesn't have to pay in perpetuity for your house.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's his goal, live with that man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also he shouldn't marry some like 25 year old.
[SPEAKER_11]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: And co-ed, he is a gray-haired man.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where is his house?
[SPEAKER_11]: Where was he living before?
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's a good question too.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was the pay for his old wife.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's married before?
[SPEAKER_11]: No, he had a wife as dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, she's dead.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's a widow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, he's got to pay for his kids still, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are they?
[SPEAKER_11]: Moving with your kid.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, you, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_11]: You do see his daughter at Thanksgiving.
[SPEAKER_11]: And you forget, like, all right.
[SPEAKER_11]: He has like a grown-ass daughter who's the same age as Betty.
[SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_11]: And adults.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, so, yes, you know, his daughter's an adult Betty's the same age.
[SPEAKER_11]: He is he is a pick and also like you very much see Henry for what he is like the realities of the situation start coming You know Coming to pass like you see after the Thanksgiving dinner Betty is like kissing them and stuff and He just goes to puts his hand on his belly goes.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm so full.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's like no Cogan
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's his way of not all hooking fucked first.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then it was like embarrassed about oh, I had so much sushi earlier Jesus don't say what it is.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think that's the rule.
[SPEAKER_11]: All right, too many noodles in me for fuck's sake.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was there for the food So he doesn't have to tell her
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, Betty wants to have sex, but Henry is too full.
[SPEAKER_11]: Later when you see Dawn pick up the kids for his weekend with them, Dawn and Henry have this moment where they're, you know, staring at each other or whatnot.
[SPEAKER_11]: And, uh,
[SPEAKER_11]: As soon as Don leaves, he has like competitive horny sex with Betty in the car because he's just like so He like he's into the chase like he liked the fact that he took Betty from it's not what I got from it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh that's what I got
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I just got that he, I don't know, he felt, he felt shamed to have her in his like mom's house and like this, he didn't, I felt like he didn't want to fuck her in the squeaky bed in his mom's house after he'd already like taken a boatload of shit from his mom.
[SPEAKER_05]: What the hell is he doing?
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanksgiving, but no, I got to he was kind of a mama's boy, but I guess.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, there's that, but also, he fucked in the fucking, uh, uh, you fucked in a car.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm saying, why do you fucking the car?
[SPEAKER_05]: The car wasn't at the car was that their own house.
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't at all saying.
[SPEAKER_11]: It was right after he saw Don and, you know, Don and, uh, and, uh,
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he felt like he wanted because he turned her down the night before.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he wanted to feel like the sexy spontaneous guy again.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I got from him.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't think he has anything to do with the competitive.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's competitive.
[SPEAKER_11]: How did you think that?
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think he has been turned on from the beginning from the fact that he is taking a man's wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think once that is... Yeah, the calming of the belly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't palm!
[SPEAKER_03]: Primate belly unless you're turned on by the idea that this is like you cannot be Belonging to someone else more the when you have a creature with half their DNA in your womb.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, exactly He's palm in that and he's just like my ball You know what I mean This is my dick was in there.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah What's my dick was size of a baby?
[SPEAKER_11]: What?
[SPEAKER_11]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_10]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: So that's what's going on with Dawn throughout.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then just real quick to wrap up what happened in the office, the in office drama.
[SPEAKER_11]: You've got Peggy and Joey new guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_11]: They're trying to figure out.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he's a new guy, and Peggy and Joey's relationship is saying, you know, John and Marsha, they're doing by the way, I bring a skit, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I included that sketch in here, if you want to listen to it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, this is the John and Marsha sketch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, let's hear it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's hear what this is about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Boy, it is, do you have a treat for you?
[SPEAKER_05]: Keep in mind, this bit was so good, they were repeating it.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were acting out the sketch at the workplace because it was so funny.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's get there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cya!
[SPEAKER_02]: Marcia... John?
[SPEAKER_11]: Um...
[SPEAKER_11]: Marsha.
[SPEAKER_11]: Jesus.
[SPEAKER_11]: All right.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for what is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is that?
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a pretty bunch.
[SPEAKER_11]: Two more minutes of that.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's two more minutes of a radio sketch.
[SPEAKER_11]: The joke is what if you could do a it's a it's this is what a soap opera sounds like and there's no other words other than them saying each other's names John and Marsha with different tones.
[SPEAKER_11]: And in the 60s
[SPEAKER_05]: it was illegal to be too funny, so I do think there's honestly something kind of beautiful about the about how poorly comedy ages just in general, yeah I think so to it kind of makes that's what makes comedy like comedy is an expression of what it's
[SPEAKER_05]: Like to be alive in that moment right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to clip it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, more that's if you I'm going to make sure your clips live in perpetuity.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to have them clips out there forever So it can always do my alien Gonzalez joke
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, yeah, it is, uh, it is, that's the sketch that they're doing and it's a very, you know, inside, inside baseball thing for so weird that they're just wrestling.
[SPEAKER_05]: A shitty old sketch.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but that's shit like that is what would make my mom love this show.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, she would always like talk about how much she liked it and she'd love to explain shit like that.
[SPEAKER_11]: She's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is from an old album that that's a really nice Easter egg with an Easter egg for sure.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's for a different kind of nerd It's a name Martia anymore.
[SPEAKER_11]: We know it's up.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I guess not.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like the name Farsha Gay Harden Marcia Gay Harden Marcia.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, Marcia Cross.
[SPEAKER_11]: Marcia Cross.
[SPEAKER_11]: She's cool Isn't there a Marcia who's in the government?
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_11]: Marsha.
[SPEAKER_11]: Who give a shit?
[SPEAKER_03]: So, uh...
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, you're right, because the people I named also were fully born in the 1960s.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_11]: So sugarberry hams is type of canned ham that they've invented for the show.
[SPEAKER_11]: I guess it's supposed to be maybe hormones doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_11]: They're trying to figure out how they're going to keep this, this client because they are not doing
[SPEAKER_11]: the numbers that they used to, I guess people aren't buying canned hands as much.
[SPEAKER_11]: The 60s was just flush with the most disgusting food that you can imagine if you can be an Uber to someone's house.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they were, well, thanks.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks, giving dinner, a holiday that the entire, like, the entire basis of this holiday is to have, like,
[SPEAKER_05]: A warm lavish feast for all of your guests and they're like, yeah, I got you a fucking ham inside of a can I opened like five cans So I'm the only one he thought it sounded really delicious He has any right to be but goddamn man come on
[SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't grow with eating pork in my house, but I used to hear about like candied ham, like honey bait ham, and it sounded like the most delicious thing in the world to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, one year we got us like a honey smoked turkey, like a that looks like a like it looked like the cartoon ham from a hand of our bearer.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought I was the most delicious thing that I ever tasted in my life and I lost my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm watching this episode and the name of it will be called like sweet berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham, sugar berry ham,
[SPEAKER_03]: Just because like, well, I understand that.
[SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's not, I mean, I culturally incendiates that, I love pork products.
[SPEAKER_05]: The idea is, like, with the idea that it's like 10 people over to your house and serve them a canned protein.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, that's a side.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the, it's not the, it's not the, it's not the main event.
[SPEAKER_03]: You still have the turkey card by the way, guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But with a side of the hand, it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: What's in the sustenance, I don't have, you don't have supplementary meats at Thanksgiving.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think, I mean, maybe, I guess, like, this got out of a can, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we, you got the turkey, and then you have a roast.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then sometimes my mother will do like a lamb chop or a cornish.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there's a lot of this and then the lamb chop, and I'm wondering how she did a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: She does a lot, but there's always a roast.
[SPEAKER_05]: It might sound hard right there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this year there were also lamb chops, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, but there's supplementary meats.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a one me guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm a one me guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: Just that's how I roll.
[SPEAKER_05]: I get supplementary meats, but yeah, can this as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm into cereal, monogamyte.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Clevette.
[SPEAKER_11]: Clevette.
[SPEAKER_11]: Let's forever.
[SPEAKER_11]: So yes, they finally have an idea.
[SPEAKER_11]: What is that idea?
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'll tell you.
[SPEAKER_11]: Here it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two women.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fighting over one hand, but they have to really fight them to get arrested or something.
[SPEAKER_07]: Because it's the last hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to play.
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty-five dollars per actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could get Gladys.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's her name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's your lady who never takes off her mittens?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have any money.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can use my expense account if I say that horse.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just a good one.
[SPEAKER_05]: P.E.
[SPEAKER_05]: like with the... Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: He doesn't even know he's doing a joke.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's such like a little Lord Fauntler Roy.
[SPEAKER_11]: And the way he says horse is almost sweet.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It really isn't.
[SPEAKER_11]: Heaven's horse.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, goodness.
[SPEAKER_11]: Golly.
[SPEAKER_11]: I found out she was a whore.
[SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, they decide to do this idea.
[SPEAKER_11]: They don't tell Don.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then we don't see the actual stunts.
[SPEAKER_11]: We just see the aftermath in which two older women who fought over the ham are now fighting in real life, which is, uh,
[SPEAKER_05]: They're method acting.
[SPEAKER_11]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a really funny idea that they actually did start fighting and this of course goes a ride later and Pete tells first we find out that like sugar berry was very happy but they can't take credit for it and instead they're just going to try to use it to increase the ad budget for sugar berry so they kept their client
[SPEAKER_11]: But then after Don sleeps with a, as Pete would say, who was beating on him, I say sex worker, by the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I just really, I appreciated Don's ballerass polo, his rayon, long sleeve polo, I want that little pocket.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's pretty sick.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, but then uh, yeah, he after he's uh, slips, slips, slips with a woman who beats him up.
[SPEAKER_11]: He finds out from Peggy that they were doing this stupid idea.
[SPEAKER_11]: He has to bail out one of the women who press charges on the other.
[SPEAKER_11]: And Peggy gets yelled at by Dawn.
[SPEAKER_11]: in the scene and I just I love finding out that she has a boyfriend that we of course have never met before who's just another in a long line of perfect Peggy boyfriend's.
[SPEAKER_11]: She likes meek men and uh and yeah I have a clip of that.
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not happy.
[SPEAKER_08]: And I don't think it's funny or cute.
[SPEAKER_08]: You run something like that by me first.
[SPEAKER_08]: I would have kept you from looking like an idiot or worship making me look like one.
[SPEAKER_08]: Is that what you want?
[SPEAKER_08]: You want people to think we're idiots, Peggy?
[SPEAKER_08]: Hey.
[SPEAKER_08]: There's no reason for name calling.
[SPEAKER_08]: She's been agonizing.
[SPEAKER_08]: Who are you?
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't say.
[SPEAKER_08]: Why don't you bring him up here if you didn't want to be involved?
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm saying, who are you?
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know how it's possible to be that alpha with three words.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's also, I would like to correct the record.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't this idea that Peggy likes weekman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just pecky like meek weekman or is there not another kind of man that will date her?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes, yes, that I mean, where is who are you imagining some don type?
[SPEAKER_11]: That's a good point.
[SPEAKER_11]: Who, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also remember the scene in season three, sorry, very top of the line for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_03]: She, um, observes, uh, what's your name, the Kirby Redhead?
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Joan.
[SPEAKER_03]: She observes Joan like charming everybody in the office and being sexy and delightful and she goes to a bar to pick up a guy Using a line that she overheard Joan using the office, right and she's sitting across in this guy that she kind of picks up He's flirting with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: He thinks he's kind of in charge, but she's driving this whole thing She's picking herself up basically
[SPEAKER_03]: and trying to seduce him, and he's not weak.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just kind of like a regular guy, but she has to keep diminishing herself because on some level she knows if she's honest about the fact that she has a real job and he assumes she's a secretary and she's like, doesn't correct him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: When she tells him where she works, and she minimizes herself and diminishes herself and tries to be the Joan that men like.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: that they can feel big and bad around, who makes them feel good about themselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: And ultimately, it doesn't quite work for her, because she's not Joan.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: She still finds herself feeling disrespected at the end of the night, even though the whole thing was her idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's life.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not relatable for me at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that is life.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't be a dumb woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't be too dumb.
[SPEAKER_03]: The dumb men don't allow it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't allow it.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's what I tell my wife.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's the guy wears the pants and all boys you better believe I got to wear the pants If she lets me wear the pants sometimes she's I she irons of but some funny Yeah, yeah, sometimes she tells me which ones to wear exactly and I say thank you, man, and then I sit in a chair and watch your fuck someone else
[SPEAKER_05]: I was pointing off your brow.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I just found out when the cuckoo chair was.
[SPEAKER_11]: Someone just returned to it.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, it's not extra chair at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just found out that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[SPEAKER_11]: I just found out.
[SPEAKER_11]: I never even heard of it.
[SPEAKER_11]: I've just been calling it my chair.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the extra chair in a hotel room.
[SPEAKER_11]: They're like, maybe we'll like, that's the cuck chair.
[SPEAKER_11]: And I was like, that's a really funny usage of the chair.
[SPEAKER_11]: I never would have thought of that.
[SPEAKER_11]: Anyways, so speaking of Joan, one of the greatest scenes, one of my favorite scenes is when Joan, we see her office.
[SPEAKER_11]: She's got doors on both sides.
[SPEAKER_11]: Hubba Hubba.
[SPEAKER_11]: Anyways, Harry shows up and he's celebrating the fact that he sold the Highly, you know, game to the Highly Special to ABC.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, and uh, he shows up all sunburn and just like doing his thing where he's like name dropping and speaking yet Is she was like, oh, I had a lot of serious with Lucey and Dizzy and just like shit I fucking hate this guy.
[SPEAKER_11]: So my like oh, oh, hey
[SPEAKER_11]: I was all far, I was all far putts to convince with some Hollywood mockers, and then I was drawn into their into their fucking mischievous.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: Anyways, so we find out- I like the subtext that they didn't have sunscreen yet, and he's just like covered in peeling sunburn.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's right, that happens a lot in the show.
[SPEAKER_11]: No one has sunscreen, everyone is peeling.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then, yeah, don doesn't like that that happened and don tries to sell his idea to the, um, don doesn't like the fact that what's his name that Peggy did the thing with the, the ham's yells at her again.
[SPEAKER_11]: He goes into the meeting with the company that's trying to sell a two piece bathing suit that's not called a bikini because they're a family company and he tries to sell them on the idea that they should be more sexy than everyone else.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did he try to sell them?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he was just like, fuck you get out of my office.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure what he was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was a tough scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, this is one of the few times where I thought like, Don is, this is like almost out of character because of how bad he wasn't his job in the moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because like, it felt in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it felt like he genuinely thought he was doing something, he was following direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he, he, he did not believe in the client's desire to, like he thought there's something just honest in the client acting polyana when they're really selling the same thing as a bikini.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, like, I understand that, but it also didn't seem to register with him that how extremely provocative his ad really was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like on some level, he seemed taken a back by the fact that the prudes that he was working for didn't think that the giant censored bar across the breasts of the teenager in his ad wasn't going to be a no-go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he thought he did that like as a fuck you to them because he knew he was in like sort of a no-in situation.
[SPEAKER_11]: I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
[SPEAKER_11]: Maybe, but that doesn't come through in his reaction to them saying that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: They could have written it so that he was like, this is a good idea and you're going to take it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, but he was sort of like, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's a censored bar.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's it's it's it's not it's not so sexy right like it's it was trying to sell them on it like no, no, it'll make everyone else seem Silly and comparison yeah, like it's a statement.
[SPEAKER_11]: I found this I completely agree I found this to be one of the weakest pictures that we've seen on the show and to show that's usually really good about sort of like thought he half-assed it on purpose because he didn't well He didn't he thought they were dumbasses like he thought they were naive.
[SPEAKER_11]: This is his reaction to what happened
[SPEAKER_08]: All I know is we don't want that.
[SPEAKER_08]: Well, gentlemen, you were wondering what a creative agency looks like they have it.
[SPEAKER_08]: Hope you enjoyed looking in the window.
[SPEAKER_07]: You're even... Control yourself.
[SPEAKER_07]: A cool off.
[SPEAKER_07]: Don't fully Campbell can talk them into hearing a few more ideas in a week or so.
[SPEAKER_07]: What?
[SPEAKER_07]: No.
[SPEAKER_07]: That's not the point.
[SPEAKER_08]: out, get out, done, excuse me, get your things and get out of my office now.
[SPEAKER_08]: Come on, let's go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, to me, no, I think the point was, when he says that wasn't the point, and the point is, we started this agency so I can do good ads.
[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't start with the agency so I can kiss this guy's ass by doing shitty.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think this guy's want shitty ads because they don't understand how this works.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna show them a good one and if they don't like it, fuck off.
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree with that aspect of events, but when he was pitching earlier to them, he literally says like, this ad with a sensor bar is gonna make your competitors look like trashy by a comparison.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: This scene could have been tweaked a little bit to make it more in character with Don and work more clearly what you're saying and it was to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some elements of that there, but you don't like either Don is lying to himself or he's just like doesn't care about how transparently stupid this pitch is.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to like basically show like a Pamela Anderson PETA ad and be like, this is tasteful.
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't actually explicit at all.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: So here's my new opinion.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: My problem with it is, is I agree that he was doing it maybe, you know, to make a point or whatnot.
[SPEAKER_11]: And that this is the type of ad he's going to do.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, but it was his reaction to it seemed to be in that case sort of overblown because yelling at them to like get out like the nine his, um, you know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_11]: To me, it was like he's he's kind of going over the top.
[SPEAKER_11]: Also, the actual pitch itself usually the show is very good at the pitch.
[SPEAKER_11]: matching up like the slogan or whatever for the company that they're, you know, create an ad for matches up with sort of a theme in the story.
[SPEAKER_11]: And this case, it's no different except that doesn't fucking work for an ad.
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, so the ad is, it's a topless woman and it says with a censored bar, so well built, we can't show you the second floor.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_11]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_11]: We're talking about the second floor of this office that is, you know, obviously we can't show it to you because it's not real.
[SPEAKER_11]: Also, the second floor being sort of the running theme throughout of like the keeping up appearances thing.
[SPEAKER_11]: All of that works fine.
[SPEAKER_11]: For this ad, it makes no fucking sense.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like it just doesn't, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's
[SPEAKER_11]: felt shoehorned in.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's almost like it was it's it's two TV.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's my my issue with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was very, very, very fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: It being TV to be a clear.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I like a cute little tie in, but it just was it's so provocative.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like you can write it so that he knows he's like fuck these guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to give them basically pornography.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this ad, and then be like, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: They took the bait.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew they weren't gonna like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fuck these clients, I'm outie.
[SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it felt like he was somehow shot like, is this a setup?
[SPEAKER_11]: It's mad.
[SPEAKER_11]: Why is he mad?
[SPEAKER_03]: He can't be that shot by it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: He got the reaction that he wanted.
[SPEAKER_11]: So to me, it's over the top to start yelling, no, no, get out.
[SPEAKER_11]: You're ruining this for me.
[SPEAKER_11]: Like that didn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's more like, this is my ad, it's not your ad.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're paying me to make my ad, I know it's your company, but like, let me do the ad part and you shut up and they were not willing to do that, so he was like, all right, well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also this happens all the time, like goodbye by Bernie ad, they're all of these conflicts between the, uh, the client and the ad guy, or they insist upon something, the ad guys try to warm this on a good idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: In this very episode with the highlight, whatever the sport thing is, highlight, highlight.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... what country's supposed to be from brzillion sport uh... uh... yeah brzillion the whole point is that he actually feels kind of bad that they're stealing this this kid's money because the father is a client of the respect spending all this stuff on some of the night was not going to go anywhere in this tension between like are they being paternalistic are they do never responsibility to protect
[SPEAKER_03]: this kid's investment because they care about the father like what what this there's a running theme of like a what point do you respect the art of the ad agency and to what extent are they like just serving the client and doing what the client wants that it up this is not the first time when these tensions has merged so for him to get all like more more realistic about it and this one instance like it's not that you can't write that sometimes the characters having a bad day and he blows up and it's a little out of character but it just
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's consistent for it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's consistent for Don because like for Don, he doesn't want any part of the high light.
[SPEAKER_05]: He never wanted any part of the high light business, even in this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, yeah, that's your thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: How much money do you think we're going to squeeze out of them anyway?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because he doesn't care about it because he knows it's not good work.
[SPEAKER_05]: And like, I think this, I mean, I think it is undercut by the fact that the bikini pitch that he comes up with is not very good, but I definitely think his perspective is consistent in that, like, yes, I want to make good ads.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't really give a shit about the clients and what they want.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I didn't care when it was by by birdie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also small detail.
[SPEAKER_03]: The sensor bar didn't cover her shoulders.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were no straps of a bikini on the shoulders.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now there is a such thing as a bando bikini.
[SPEAKER_03]: The strap was bikini.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, it's like, this is goes back to like, this is just so suggestive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, maybe she had a bando bikini on, but you fully decided to
[SPEAKER_03]: It's for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks like she's naked.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's bubble porn.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's like, if you look up Google Mormon porn, I will not be Googling that.
[SPEAKER_11]: You can do it.
[SPEAKER_11]: AI will make it weird.
[SPEAKER_11]: No.
[SPEAKER_11]: If Google, it's like, it's just, it's called bubble porn.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's essentially doing what they did there, which is like, if someone is wearing, like, a top, like, a top that's shoulderless, you just,
[SPEAKER_11]: cut out those areas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone can be wearing a bikini, but as soon as you've cut it out, this is not how Masad is going to get me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will only be googling normal regular porn.
[SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but yeah, it's uh, yeah, Mormon Mormon bubble porn.
[SPEAKER_11]: Look it up, fellas.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a rock.
[SPEAKER_05]: Show me normal power.
[SPEAKER_11]: Um, anyways, so yeah, he's like, get out, you idiots, and then he's like, get me a little street journal.
[SPEAKER_11]: And then the final scene, he's redoing his PR disaster, but this time he's going to do it right.
[SPEAKER_11]: And he starts talking himself up.
[SPEAKER_11]: to the Wall Street Journal and then music plays and it's like, hey, look at this, a show about it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Matt, and that's the end of the episode.
[SPEAKER_11]: Final thoughts on it.
[SPEAKER_11]: Do we have a favorite scene, at least favorites scene, or something we missed, Vince?
[SPEAKER_05]: uh the one we didn't talk about that I really loved was uh Sally spitting out the candy deems.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought she did such a great job of being a bratty kid spitting out food and like doing a fake cough.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like oh man that's yeah it's exactly how little kids act I love that
[SPEAKER_11]: Also Betty forced feeding it to her.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, like she deserved nothing less than what Sally gave her.
[SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_11]: Fuck you.
[SPEAKER_11]: Don't shove food in my mouth to please your shitty fucking news.
[SPEAKER_11]: Grandmother.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, Brianna, a favorite scene at least favorite scene or something we didn't talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did like I really do like her name is Anna.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just forgot the the true blood date lady Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoy her as a character actress.
[SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed her youthful so power in the whole dating scenario I thought it'd be very A familiar A familiar confident of a certain kind of young woman yeah young woman that I haven't been in many many years and I really took me back
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I see a lot of myself in this background character in the opera.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and I think I talked about it everything that I wanted to talk about, and I think I loved all the scenes.
[SPEAKER_11]: If we had to give a letter grade to this episode, and I do, I think I'd give it a B plus.
[SPEAKER_11]: Vince, what would you give this episode to everybody?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man, it's crazy that you took the words right out of my mouth.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I did.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was just about to say B plus.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh wow, Brianna, what would you give this episode if you had to give it a letter grade?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy, because when you play that scene of the dialogue from the grandmother after the Thanksgiving dinner, I found myself thinking, this is incredible rating, honestly, the way that they managed to pack so much shade and nuance and a kind of like, not explicit subtle sort of way.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really makes me think of another culture product I have been talking about a lot recently that also had a really good dialogue and just before I grade it, I just wanted to read a bit of that dialogue if I could.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is from a Oscar nominated PTA film.
[SPEAKER_03]: The dialogue goes like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: My name is Jungle Pussy.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what Power looks like.
[SPEAKER_03]: See my face?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is some shit I said it off shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am what Black Power looks like.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just think that if you just compare and contrast the subtlety on that dialogue with this television show from, you know, 15 years ago, you see why both cultural products deserve a solid B plus.
[SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh my God.
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's a shocker here for mad yourself a man, but we have
[SPEAKER_11]: Solid B plus is all around a solid B plus episode of madman and a solid A plus plus plus plus plus plus episode of Mad Yourself a man.
[SPEAKER_11]: Brianna joy great.
[SPEAKER_11]: Thank you so much for coming on and talking madman with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was a great deal of fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for having me.
[SPEAKER_11]: I had a fantastic time working people to find you.
[SPEAKER_03]: you can find bad faith podcast on all of the podcast listening apps and on YouTube if you prefer to watch there is a free episode that drops every Thursdays and additionally if you want another episode of bad faith podcast every week you can subscribe at patreon.com slash bad faith podcast and catch our Monday episodes.
[SPEAKER_11]: hell.
[SPEAKER_11]: To the yeah, you guys should check it out.
[SPEAKER_11]: It really is a great podcast and it is always a pleasure talking anything with you, Brianna.
[SPEAKER_11]: Again, thank you so much for coming on the show.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_11]: Patreon.com.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's so many.
[SPEAKER_11]: Rottcast.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: We have built up quite a backlog of people who want shoutouts and we have four this week.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, just four.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but I mean we have more than four.
[SPEAKER_11]: I think we have double that no big deal But yeah, for anyone who gave $8 or more you get a shout out so these are our $8 or more patrons Starting with oh lady I'm gonna do that every time we have a lady Audrey our net
[SPEAKER_05]: A Audrey on that, we call her the Energizer.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's a double A battery.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes, she keeps going and going, nothing but net.
[SPEAKER_11]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_11]: See, I'm doing something now.
[SPEAKER_11]: The next name who's going to get a shout out, which is to get a prep school name and something out, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's Adam Jensen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, I'm Jensen here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, we call this guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: We call this guy number one because he's the first man.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Adam.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, guys, so you had nothing with Jensen.
[SPEAKER_11]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm trying to see if I could find it, but... Jensen, John's on.
[SPEAKER_11]: Adam.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Jensen.
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, the next one I don't know
[SPEAKER_11]: You know, some people like their their username is is garbled and then I have to go to their email address and try to figure out what it could be but this person's name is
[SPEAKER_11]: uh... mdrowman he's british for sure we call this person bread or might be nimes bread but why oh cuz they're british british i don't know okay that's fine and what you want might i'm hoping that this person's british they paid in pounds that's so i assume the call and pound cake okay there we go oh we got this guy's british pound cake yeah
[SPEAKER_11]: Okay, and last but certainly not least, Alexander for Orster.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's got the two dots over the line.
[SPEAKER_11]: No, it's got the two dots over the, oh, isn't that like you say, oh twice?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I think it just means it's the, oh sound, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to say, which one's the ear?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is the omelette make it her, first her?
[SPEAKER_11]: Well, is it- wait, I thought that Omelot was just like, you like, double it.
[SPEAKER_11]: I don't know why I thought that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, four-star.
[SPEAKER_05]: Four-star.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's guy uses a lot of.
[SPEAKER_05]: Four-star.
[SPEAKER_05]: Australian, for the B.
[SPEAKER_05]: How'd you-how'd you get her, I four-star?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, okay, well, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_11]: He's not gonna like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it is a prep school name, but not that- Well, this guy, the last Jedi, because he's using the Force.
[SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there we go.
[SPEAKER_11]: That's very good.
[SPEAKER_11]: And you yourself could get a very good name by going to patreon.com slash frottcasts and joining the $8 tier or just going to patreon.com slash frottcasts.
[SPEAKER_11]: Join the $5 tier.
[SPEAKER_11]: You get a bonus episode every week.
[SPEAKER_11]: It's a frottcast where we talk about other things, not just madman.
[SPEAKER_11]: uh... fracast at gmail.com for all your questions comments and concerns Vince what is a google voice number four one five two seven five zero zero three zero all right thank you everybody and thank you hbl her book that out on god damn dreaming and until next time my nothing there is our house in all
[SPEAKER_09]: With dawn's daughter and son And it's been a year since Betty replaced him With one Henry Francis
[SPEAKER_09]: As a bachelor, he lives in the city of a long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long,
[SPEAKER_09]: And the butter sprays out everywhere It really sports out It's a metaphor from Yamiya Mishod And the only thing going to happen is Yamiya Mishod
[SPEAKER_09]: It's when he's carrying a potential fly-up.
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I think this is the one who's all love.
[SPEAKER_09]: So go, what up is?
[SPEAKER_09]: My name is the animal.
[SPEAKER_09]: What, what, what, what, what does it look like?
[SPEAKER_09]: I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I'd love to laugh, I
[SPEAKER_09]: There's no children Spoken from the last month Either pay the rent Or buy me out Of my house Use my full punch Can't just leave rent free My house, my house My house On the road road On the road road
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I saw something's up and so His voice is more subcontained Trying to keep this one out of control And now I will explain And his backstory line
[SPEAKER_09]: My sugarberry That's a pain of rust So I hide the truth All ladies to fight over them This is my dear star
[SPEAKER_09]: We ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God, we ask God
[SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm playing spitch.
[SPEAKER_09]: Fuck you suck.
[SPEAKER_09]: We're just gonna do Fuck you sucky.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna fucking sucky.
[SPEAKER_11]: I'm gonna fucking sucky.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna do a little fucking sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky Fuck you sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky sucky