[SPEAKER_03]: What's up, everybody?
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Comic Book Club on Alex.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm Justin.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm Pete.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we got another bonus episode coming for you with one of our favorite guests to talk to Philip Kennedy, Johnson, Philip, and welcome back to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's always a pleasure.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is always a pleasure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we are ostensibly here to talk about Batman and Robin number three.
[SPEAKER_03]: 30, depending on when you're listening to this, it's either on stands or just about to be on stands.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's the final issue of your run over at DC Comics, but before we even get into that, I've got to talk about some personal business.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, press the man, yeah, it was so fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I knew about Brett, of course, because of this show, and you're welcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's your right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was going to go down to Fan Expo, New Orleans, in January, and I reached out to Alex.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, yeah, I'm going to be New Orleans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you remind me the name of that place where your boy works?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll reach out to the gave me Brett's number.
[SPEAKER_02]: I reached out and I was like, hey, man, I'm going to be in town.
[SPEAKER_02]: and I offer their Brams and Books.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's at the same time, it was the fan expo was at the same time as this jazz education conference that happens there a couple of years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've got this good friend that was also gonna be in town.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I write a lot of my friends and people care about it into my books in some kind of way, whether it be inspired by them and some aspect of their personality or their history or through their look or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Lieutenant Catherine the track from Batman or Robin is based very closely on a dear friend of mine named Angela who's this just some amazing person, musician, and teacher.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she looks fucking just like Catherine in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I told a little bruise like, you know, my friend is coming and she's he and Brett said he knew the Batman or Robin books and I was like, well,
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, when we were kind of setting up, I was always going to be his restaurant.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, he's like, so would you know, would he look like or something?
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, just look for the dude that's sitting with Catherine Lentrack.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks just like, and he made such a fuss over her.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just, he made a,
[SPEAKER_02]: he made a cocktail called the LaTrec for her as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was PS, like my favorite drink now.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's basically basically on the Sazer Act, like the iconic New Orleans drink and wrote this little thing about it and gave it to her and like she signed a bunch of the books for them and it was just just the coolest night.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Brett was the coolest guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: His family was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: His wife and son were there.
[SPEAKER_02]: His son Brooklyn was there
[SPEAKER_04]: It was just a family shop.
[SPEAKER_04]: The three of them worked together, making it with its grades.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's adorable and amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a... Yeah, I couldn't believe how good that shit was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he said, you guys had done a show there, like the year before or something before.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like freezing cold.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was just like we were in the back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's where we ate.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was an amazing night.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Brett and his family were the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just a hell of a good time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the best burgers I've ever had, like the foods unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some serially.
[SPEAKER_02]: That guy is like, he does food like art.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's nuts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not usually like a foodie, but I was so impressed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we've actually got a couple of follow-ups for Brett here that he wanted to share because he's officially got to pull back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we initially were going to have a live show, but you got some stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're pre-taping this and that's all good.
[SPEAKER_03]: But usually for the live show, he decides a cocktail there as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to try to bring this up here.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did a cocktail.
[SPEAKER_03]: It has a very long name, which is that kind of full of Kennedy Johnson came to New Orleans and sparked by Sides' love of play, music.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow, impressed that little bit, but it's still very sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I do want to just read the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: of this for anybody who's listening.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, Philip Ken and Johnson was supposed to be on the live show this week, but he heard I was making a cocktail for him and was like, no fuck that guy, I will not be attending.
[SPEAKER_03]: That didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just had a schedule and God's looking to get make it, which I have totally bummed about now that he had asked friends.
[SPEAKER_03]: But really, he did come to New Orleans.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had a great time, and a bunch of cool people, and made them cocktails and food, and it was all encompassed by our love, mutual love of comics.
[SPEAKER_03]: Philip Ken and Johnson really did talk to my son Brooklyn about learning to play the trumpet and piano.
[SPEAKER_03]: and how great it was and they both liked playing piano.
[SPEAKER_03]: After that conversation we went home and Brooklyn immediately started plucking on his little cassio and downloaded an apt teachy piano which he is still using today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now Brooklyn is playing piano practicing violin and really into musical instruments and I absolutely believe it was because he talked about playing piano and trumpet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is Chris it's intro to a cocktail, but there is a cocktail as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a very sure not an old fashioned bourbon amaro hibiscus syrup lemon juice agnister a bitters and vanilla extract
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I must have told them that old fashions are my drink, but I don't remember that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like you hung out with Breffero.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just happens to have one additional follow-up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to add a question for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't keep mentioned that in addition to everything else.
[SPEAKER_03]: He designs aprons years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's going up later.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Incredible aprons for us.
[SPEAKER_03]: He made a safer one for me, which what did he make for you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Starman for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Punisher.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not to make us all about Pratt, but he would like to make you an apron.
[SPEAKER_03]: What character would you like made into an apron for?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, tough question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bam, dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm a Marvel guy now.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this would be something I'll have.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, for a long, long time, um, I got to say superman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, there we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I asked that a log or real.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to see the superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to quickly jump in and just say like, you know, as somebody who creates comics, you do create sparks and people and like connect to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that like, it wasn't your comic book that created this amazing spark.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, uh, you being you is also got to be feel pretty special, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it was all Brett and his family now.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was the best and
[SPEAKER_02]: And Angela too, I don't know, just having them all there is like it was seeing these like different, you know, parts of my life, can I connect and just have such a great time and I don't know, it was just it was just the best talking to Brooklyn was amazing that the little guy is super fun and he read it mentioned to me his love of music, but he hadn't he wasn't into it like that moment and I just it was just something fun for us to talk about and I told them about my own son, he plays trumpet and drums and he I will jam together and he, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: You said he had a piano and I asked him if you'd like to play it or what it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If he has any favorite songs, likes to play.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's in his way, he can't tell he didn't really know when he's songs, now it's like, well, figure in a mouth can be like his fun little riddle where you just have some kind of a fun like a, some little melody from a game or a TV show you like or move your something.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you can just hum it in your head and you can kind of plunk it out and just keep
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep trying to find it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, just like look for it the way that you would you know find something hidden and Hidden and dirt just got keep pressure and stuff away until you find it and we talked to that for a minute And you seem to like that idea and oh, it shouldn't now I want to play piano
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just like it's like that's how people learn how to improvise.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just you listen to an improvise solo and and transcribe it like transcribe meaning like right now, but I mimicry is really how I do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would always teach students to do it like internalize it before I actually write it down and that's kind of what I was teaching Brett Brooklyn to do and Brett showed me a photo later him doing that of him just he went home and he got really into it and now he's playing so it's that was super super fun rewarding.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am curious, since these are, I mean, you have so many different parts of your life, so many different things that you do, but do you see this philosophy that you just kind of laid out with music, does that bleed through into the way you approach writing comics at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't feel different, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I, when people ask me, like, why comics?
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, yeah, it's good to have been, it's good to have been.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, me, it was music for a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could have been this, could have been filmmaking.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just love making things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to make cool shit with my friends, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's, I just do love a lot of the collaborative nature of it for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of what got me that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what gave me the bug.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how familiar it feels to like small groups you as or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, as far as how it is made, I mean, it's made differently obviously and the way that you get better at it is
[SPEAKER_02]: is different, but the way that you get addicted to it is actually really similar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you want to go back into comics a few years away, you know, when you're a kid, or I can only speak for myself, as a kid, I would read stuff and be like, you know, Batman is awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Respect a man is awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just thinking that the character, I wasn't checking out all the creative teams and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I got back into it, isn't it dope?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I saw how far the art form had come.
[SPEAKER_02]: and what was possible now, like the guy that ran the shop, which is now third eye comics, this phenomenal place.
[SPEAKER_02]: I told him that when I stepped out, I had been reading a lot of Batman and Wolverine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was reading Wolverine back when Adam Cuberton Larry Holland were doing it and I was reading,
[SPEAKER_02]: like Joe Madd, Jim Lee, X-Men, stuff like that, and then I hadn't read it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is back when, if you didn't like X-Men, you're just like human shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you had to read X-Men, or you're just a happy loser, because that was the height of his popularity, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was when I was reading, and then he showed me the Josh we had John Cassidy, astonishing X-Men, and some other stuff was like, holy shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I looking at?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is so amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all these superhero deconstructions, like the boys and you're a deemable and the, you know, watchman, which of course, I've been around, but I'd never seen it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just, it really got me hooked, and then I was like, what else is John Cassidy drawn?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what else is, I found American vampire, like what else is Rafael Albuquerque?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's got Snyder done, like I just, I started looking
[SPEAKER_02]: at the creative teams and following those names to other books and and that is exactly how I got addicted to jazz when I discovered the Miles Davis 11 albums.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like holy crap because I I knew Miles Davis but so many mentioned gay 11s.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like I don't know that name and I started looking at everything I was gay 11s had done and that led me to all these other musicians and what they had done and like oh shit there's Lee Cohen it's on sax what else those he done and it just became like this just this
[SPEAKER_02]: this tree of creative lineage that I didn't know was there and I just drove me further and further out those branches and discovering creative teams and books that way is how I got back into jazz.
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me after into comics after so far away and that's how I kind of educated myself in the New York form.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how they feel most similar.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just my how my my
[SPEAKER_02]: My lineage and influences have grown, just the way that one creative team leads to another, and you just kind of educate yourself as you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take a little swerve and transition back to that man in robin number 30, just finishing up that run.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so what's the fun now, Mr. Fucking nerd?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the lifestyle portion of our show and our movie is going to do an awkward transition about like what is it like finishing this part of your music on Batman and Robin but I just I just get this comment to it you are finishing this run on Batman and Robin we've read the issue it's great issue it's been a great run but like
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to hear from you and I know we talked about the run various times throughout it, but what do you feel was your mission statement on Batman and Robin as a duo?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you feel like you landed at the end of the day with this final issue?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, a great question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, like I said, I put people in my books that I love, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And Batman and Robin,
[SPEAKER_02]: is just so clearly about my relation with my own son.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, but they're also famous about the character and so about Batman and his battle world by Gothen and I wanted to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, Alex is the dummy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's our face.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time he calls him dummy, it's Alex I'm thinking of naturally off that room come true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, it's funny, that last arc was supposed to be two arcs at one point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because of all the the line-wide stuff that was happening in Batman,
[SPEAKER_02]: Tighten it up to make sure that everything kind of was was wrapped up in time for all the stuff that's happening now like all the You know, it just happens in big two shit all the time like whenever there's a big event coming and there's gonna be a big like alignment of the books or a big like nuclear bomb of an event or something like KO is There has to be stuff that gets either truncated or like stretched out or whatever
[SPEAKER_02]: So we couldn't really do, um, there's going to be a quiet man arc and then a dummy arc after that, um, that was going to be very different, but well, I mean, yeah, just just a longer version where I wanted to, I love the idea that Ben Trollek was
[SPEAKER_02]: sees and treats Scarface just like a person like his boss.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's actually I'll just him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to have an arc where it was all kind of from his perspective, like where you're not sure who's real and who's not when you're seeing that when you're looking at like Scarface's crew, you don't know who's real because the incredible
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we ended up doing it all in one arc and um, it just made the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to cut out every little bit of fat to make it feel like one arc that no works, like where Scarface and the Diploman are both, and tagging us in the same book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I'm getting away off track here.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, um, see you guys about the mission statement though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man, my, I mean, Anders has loved that man since he was old enough to love anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he just, even more so when he was little, he just has all the care about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like his love for me came later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, this is all about bad man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got this amazing photo of him from this little kid's gym where he's got like this cape that he would wear everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, he was like in front of the, in front of the ball pit and this kid's gym was like, this, this came from, there's this little, this little kid in the background like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, he's just the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: But just how much he was always into that stuff and how much Batman and Robin he and I played.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was always Robin.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had always play that stuff, and And even like real life elements in our lifestyle together like the fact that he does he has all these creative pursuits.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like
[SPEAKER_02]: Trump it and drums and he's into theater and he he makes his own comics and sells a bit school and he makes the stop motion films and he's got his all this stuff that he does and we have to kind of carve out time from can move forward and all those things all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a list for myself as well just to get everything done and there are elements of
[SPEAKER_02]: the Batman Robin relationship of just trying to stand top of your stuff and not wasting a moment that is actually kind of real.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's been fun to find these little moments of our actual life and slip them into the book, so it feels like it feels like us and a very superhero kind of context.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just taking a character like Damian that I think has been very
[SPEAKER_02]: at times underserved or ill use, I should say, where he's kind of treated like the evil one or the asshole one, I think that just boils them down to a really unflattering note.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's a super complicated kid has been through the mill and I think he's busted and sort of similar ways to the ways that Batman has busted and they're in such an interesting position now that Alfred has gone and I just really wanted to make
[SPEAKER_02]: Damien, without taking away the edgy parts of Damien that make him cool and different, also make him much more sympathetic and complicated and make people love him even with his, even with his rough edges, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, sorry for my long answer, but basically to make Damien more compelling and sympathetic and endearing despite the things that make him different than the other kids.
[SPEAKER_04]: To me I feel like reading it like I love hearing the personal backstory because all of that emotion comes through It's but even though the story there's so much going on like you're saying like it's it's busy from an adventure point of view But the emotion punctuates I feel like every moment and I read it as like it's Damian feeling like he's grown up a bit like he's
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I would call him the sort of brat robin.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like he gets paged her last and in this it feels like he He makes so many strides for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, this is the hero.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the character of now We can't go back to that smaller robin.
[SPEAKER_04]: They can't make a kid younger again And I just hope that that is what comes out of this run because it's such a much as stronger character here
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, whenever writers get a chance to cover them, the all-goal stuff is usually we get still with because it's just the obvious choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's the all-goal element of his backstory is the kind of the distinct thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's that's been
[SPEAKER_02]: That's been written in his story, just so thoroughly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even though I myself love the Algoal stuff, I have strong feelings on Ross and Talia and everything, and I love to have done this big Algoal kind of epic with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't feel like time for it, because it's been done so much and so recently.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, you know, I've never really seen him deal with the Wayne part.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a legacy as a Wayne of the Gotham, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: We never see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all about the Algoals.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of wanted to see him,
[SPEAKER_02]: like fall on his face in the beginning and get some humility and realize oh wow I can't like this girl's hurt and it's kind of my fault and these normal people like I'm in this place that I want to be with all these normies I look down on and they can help them and I can't
[SPEAKER_02]: and just have them think like maybe dad's the broken one, maybe Thomas Wayne is actually the one that had a figured out like what if that's my legacy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just have him explore that side of himself and you know actually see him being a healer, I thought we were really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's been really cool to see that dealt with, thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as they deal with that, the new nightfight issues, I guess they see like Grandpa Bruce,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, meeting is grandson and all that and you see that the dean of the doctor and all that that was really that was really cool to see I'm glad they're picking up some of those threads and I hope they continue
[SPEAKER_03]: What are the other great things about the issue and I know this is not necessarily a department, but it's Fico Asio on art, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of great stuff throughout this final issue here, but I was so struck, there's like a double page spread towards the beginning of just Batman and Robin, the super tidy out of Gargile, looking over the city, and that's not necessarily anything to do in terms of telling you about that, but man, it's so stunning when you flip to those pages.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just curious what you're writing something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's your direction is like hey two page spread go that's or Let me pull it up right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you what it says.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if it's on I won't let Let's see, sorry, I'm just a moment, but I'll tell you that warm poem is so organized
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you see this?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple of folders on here with the names of the books I can't let you see this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Issue 30.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the most recent one?
[SPEAKER_02]: 14 November.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So actually this is really short.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because by this point, Fiko and I have established a lot of trust.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know how much
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... the party in chameleon plaza across the street from sacred heart around a periphery there are a few police cars and barriers blocking off the streets to traffic a few board looking cops are standing near their cars not expecting any trouble and that's it and it says uh... there's an off off panel line from penguins saying anything is possible and then uh... the opening credits uh... earlier
[SPEAKER_02]: because we had already in the previous page, I established Penguin on stage at the Sacred Heart Valentine's Party, speaking blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess we did kind of establish what the Valentine's Party out on the block looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we already kind of had talked about what it was gonna be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as the details of that page, that was I just wanted to kind of understanding by then what the setting was, just let him go nuts.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also a while I'm thinking about it when you think you mentioned at towards the top of the issue of Penguin is giving a speech.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that is that bad returns, like that feels very bad, that returns to be with Peggy, as the baby does.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was that was inspired.
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me, that was inspired by the way that Fiko Adross Penguin.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Adross Penguin is super Batman Returnsie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Frost.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's the mouth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the long, like, crook nose that sticks out, like six inches and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so clearly Danny DeVito's take.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I did want to give him that moment where it feels like that old movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was an earlier scene like that, too, where Batman's investigating the...
[SPEAKER_02]: the the shooting that happened at the iceberg lounge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, if he, if I'd been, if I bet if I was some stupid cop or like some no name person, you'd have been here in time, and like I'd pay taxes to and he's just getting all his face.
[SPEAKER_02]: And his just felt very much like one of the videos kind of like rants.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that was inspired by the way, if you go draw a
[SPEAKER_03]: you we talked about the last time I think get a Baltimore when we chatted but you had just gone a Marvel exclusive at that point and you still got the adventures of Superman stuff is rolling out so there's more DC work coming from you but yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: If this is the, if this is the end of your DC work here other than that, do you feel satisfied with, have you said everything you needed to say about Batman or other ideas percolating up there?
[SPEAKER_02]: I definitely have more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to do more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if that's the truck with my name on it gets me, I'm good, but I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do have, I do have other stuff I want to do for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the fact when I got the call to do the Superman stuff, if I had a book, it's not exactly a Batman book, but I had an idea for almost like an ocean's 11 kind of heist book, in which Red Hood is the protagonist and Batman is the antagonist.
[SPEAKER_02]: where there's this thing that Redwood has to get and for the reasons that we'll set up Batman is actually like the quote unquote bad guy the book and he's like this this threat that has to be overcome and it kind of becomes this fiber supply thing where there's like two teams and the Batman's team understands what they're going for and will not let it happen but and Redwood knows the Batman knows but he's going to get it anyway and it's it's a really fun story that I'd love to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: and there are a couple of stories with specific villains I'd love to tackle, but the momento story is the one that I really, really wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's it fit the Batman and Robin title extremely well because it is so wrapped up in his Richard with Damian, but
[SPEAKER_02]: even if that had not been the case, if it was, if they'd gotten me for the main Batman title, I would have made a little adjustments, but I, but I, it's still what have been in a mental story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the idea of a multi-generational murder mystery with a serial killer.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've always wanted Batman books to be detective stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we, he's, people always call in the world's greatest detective, but half the time, more than half the time, we only know he's the world's greatest detective because they're fucking sane at all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he says it a lot, I'd like to mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's how you lose the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not like he's saying it's just that they get easy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he says it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not that's a very unbamined world's greatest detective calling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have a mystery?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, you know, the guy that's, you know, wearing the school of gear, punching dudes out, and like he's a world's greatest detective, like cool, show me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so a story like this was really fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been fascinated with his walkabout from when he was younger.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love the, I kind of wanted to see a character.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like a Sherlock Holmes sort of mentor, but also kind of like Mike might have been more yardy, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also inspired by these really creepy Gotham people like Jack the Ripper or Alistair Crowley.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wanted to envision this,
[SPEAKER_02]: interrogation with, uh, entering the demon through this mirror and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I had this very specific story I wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what the momento story became.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was, that was the thing I really wanted to tell.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is of course colored by how close I'm with my own son.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and, and, and my friend Angela, who is his godmother.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like, I love the idea of like, this person that used to be my great friend is now.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's great friend and see this, this mystery that kind of goes on generationally.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just, it was a really fun story.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do want to turn real quick and ask you about your Marvel work because we've been loving infernal Hulk.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's for anybody to get out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, Matt.
[SPEAKER_03]: Three is out now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Number four is coming out February 25th.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the last issue, just to for anybody to check it out, spoilers.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you turn to look at what Bruce and Betty have been up to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I do this is not exactly your department, but one of the standout things about the issue is that you've got Kev Walker art, and then whenever you flash on anything with the Hulk, it's Nick Klein's art, which I thought was such a great use of two artists in the same book.
[SPEAKER_03]: When did that idea come up and how did you guys execute on it for the issue?
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, how did it come together?
[SPEAKER_02]: Nick is doing the best work of his career.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it takes time, I like to do that kind of detail.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to decide where best to spend Nick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we wanted to, we really wanted to sing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he would do every page if he could.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's so invested in this book.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we have to figure out where his wisest to spend him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there were these scenes that were happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, back in Munstein, Indiana, where it's just Bruce and Betty work on a day job.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the wrong hands, I mean, I should say the wrong hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, artist heart, but I said, um, like there are artists who would draw those, who would see those kinds of scenes as kind of boring.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just like what the, what the big, cool action shots, like who could take scenes like that and really make them interesting and nuanced and, and, uh, compelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: in Ken Walker was kind of the name that I kept coming back to because he I had that issue issue 27 about the the the guy in the bus with his family if you remember like the kid at the ghost in the woods man kept just obliterated that issue and such a meaningful beautiful issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like Kev would take those scenes with Bruce and Betty and just look at their trauma on their faces and really make it great.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like what if we and I knew that those scenes were going to develop into this like you haven't seen the other issues yet where that's going but it's going to get real intense and he's still going to get his chance to do some cool shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I would love to see Kev really spool that out over these issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also want to be consistent and whenever we see stuff in the whole escape, that's always going to be these Nick paints those by hand, those are physical paintings in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of don't want anyone else to touch the whole escape stuff, and I'm sorry, go ahead, Pete.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, please finish with your saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's in the whole escape, the issue four is all whole escape.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the last page of issue three is like the little teaser into that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that has to be Nick and my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also God damn dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the first couple of pages of issue four.
[SPEAKER_02]: I cannot wait for you to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's coming out a few weeks, but it's, all right, I'm just gonna spoil a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a, we see that a transition from the real world into the Hawkscape.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's this thing I've always kind of wanted to do on the page, like what if we, like, what if we go wide down to small,
[SPEAKER_02]: and use, like, instead of the traditional top, top-left, bottom-right layout, what if we did like a golden spiral kind of a thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where it's, we go big, and as we get smaller, we kind of focus in on as I.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on the other page, it starts in his eye and when the whole escape and it opens up and becomes the whole escape and that's the painted page.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it did, and it's so good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Good, that's so cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the page that last page of issue three where we see the painted page that is literally, that's canvas that exists.
[SPEAKER_02]: And,
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted the first and last pages of this issue to be Nick to kind of set up what's coming in issue four.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then of course, there'll be more health-skate stuff in the future, and that's all going to be Nick's paintings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just wanted to Chris Farley it up a little bit here and just first start by saying, thank you for your Batman and Robin work because it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I needed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's heartfelt, it's beautiful, it's nice, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It hits a real sweet spot, but...
[SPEAKER_01]: the Hulk book you're melting my brain dude like you're pushing me and see I'm heavy the greatest time but it's also like I didn't know you know like the fact that like you're seeing him and then you see the Hulk like there are two separate people now it's just like it's insane to me and such a great way
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm nervously excited because it seems like every time I talk to you, you're like, oh, wait till I'm like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to talk to you about the other stuff, but you're like, oh, no, no, that's nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how do you, how can you keep doing this amazing work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is it just like, do you get an idea about a character because it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, it's like, what hasn't the halt, what haven't we seen with the Hulk?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that how do you approach it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're just, you're having so much fun in the sandbox and, you know, it's melting my mind that I'm just kind of like, how did he come up with this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, man, thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love when he loved my books, Pete.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's, I mean, it's so cool to hear you say we said by Ben and Robin, too, because I was sometimes I write a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a piece I can like this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got a little itch in the back of your head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really glad you dug the Batman around the stuff, because it is hard to felt.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the whole stuff, I knew you could be into this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was, I was a little nervous about issue three, because so much of it is just, you know, people going through their lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the way I envisioned that scene in the kitchen where we're buddies in there and like we've seen we can see that there's something wrong with Betty but then we'll be see how bad things have gotten.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like that needs to be like this uncomfortable like oh god, like this is kind of, I don't feel good right when I'm in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I want that to really hit and god captures.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's, the scene when Iron Man's kind of like dressing down Bruce, like give him shit about what a cowardy is and we see this, this little pathetic Hulk thing coming out of his back and like digging into the ground representing what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, what does that says in land?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, was it, are people going to get it?
[SPEAKER_02]: And just thank God for Kevin Walker, man, because he just made a dust shit sing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of it is in a hands of the artists who was said, sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was going to say in our, in our, our Kong Club discord, people were like, is that a new Hulk that comes out of his back when he's stressed?
[SPEAKER_04]: And all this, I think it's sort of meant to, it's like a metaphor for what Bruce is feeling.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like, but it could be like a good shame Hulk.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, okay, we can believe that for a while.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not really good, it's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's, yeah, that's not what that is, yeah, it's just, I was nervous about people misunderstand again.
[SPEAKER_02]: And thinking like shit, there's another Hulk, and it looks like a worm, and you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think that's what I love about this book.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like two sort of BP for a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: Infernal Hulk felt like, oh, they're just rebooting.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like you changed the creative more.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you got us on that one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because the layering of the horror in here is more intense.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like when you boil down a sauce, and it's much more just like potent.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like the everyday horror that you were describing with the Betty scene, I was like,
[SPEAKER_04]: to see this gear here and it's really it's got me and I think I think this is so strong and even like you said I was going to say Tony Stark being such an asshole I was like what's this?
[SPEAKER_04]: It has that horror element where you feel someone they're like oh I know him he's nice and like wait he's mean to what's happening in this movie and so the question at the end of this is like what are you like I'm going to make Tony a dick here because it makes everything worse in this
[SPEAKER_04]: sort of a horror world for, for Bruce.
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, I, yeah, I feel like that thing with Tony just completely earned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody who's, somebody who's lighting me up on line about that, too, is like, man, these guys are heroes, and this is not how they talk to people, like, get the fuck out of my face, like, I, like, I've met, like, war heroes in person, and guess what?
[SPEAKER_02]: They've killed shitloads of people, and they're now always nice to everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, it's, and, and plus look at where they are, like, Bruce lost, hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: and walked away and he's like, well, I'm helpless now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just going to enjoy my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I completely lost, but I also have the thing that I want.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm no longer the whole, which is actually awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can't, I don't have the power to do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also don't have the, like, I'm also broken.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can actually be with the woman I love and, you know, she's super fucked up now, but we're not going to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to live her life and pretend everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to hide her head in the sand in middle America.
[SPEAKER_02]: And not worry about the problems of others or immigrants or things to have it overseas.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to go to my job.
[SPEAKER_02]: And meanwhile, Tony is still in the trenches.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, yeah, he's like, this is your fault.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, he has been for, you since the Avengers started, he's like, this Hulk's a pain in my ass.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, he's so, Hulk is only a hassle, you know, and Tony's still cleaning it up, and he's still like just as much in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Bruce just, he can work in an environment factory, and Tony's like, what is your fucking problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is completely your fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I stand on what Tony is saying and doing in that issue, ten toes, and I feel like, you know, Bruce earned it too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's been shown that stuff, and actually, you know, there was a legit meeting about Betty with me and several editors, all at once, and another person brought in for their perspective on how to treat Betty.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was actually, this is hopefully going to know what I'm in trouble here.
[SPEAKER_02]: but uh... there was another scene when they were when they're in the factory it actually turned out better i think the way that we ended up doing it but there's when they're in the factory and
[SPEAKER_02]: Betty is talking and making nice with colleagues the way that you do it a day job and then she sees the like CNN or whatever's on TV and some Indiana Fox News probably and watching the TV and they see the shot of
[SPEAKER_02]: And and Bruce notices before anyone else does he's like hey Ricky is gonna be one second here And she's talking and they just like hey Ned, let me borrow but we got to go over this thing with her real quick and he takes from the bathroom They clean up and she's like Bruce is like okay, let's just get you to let's get home.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll say telling me got sick or something She's like no, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm good and later.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like I don't think we can do this
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, all the other stuff, I really wanted that moment of discomfort in the reader.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We battled it around with what was okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the end, actually another person in the office you gave really great perspective was like, what if we make it more about the self-harm?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there was already going to be, they already told me when the issue when the script got turned in, like, I think we're under your trigger warning on this book because of the self-harm was like,
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we should be one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just like, let's keep developing the self-harmon beat and show her, like, pulling away the bandage and she's bleeding.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that'll work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we went with.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah, the Betty stuff was so important.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really glad to land it, and that it wasn't like a lie down for people, because the over-the-top action has been so big and epic and like cosmic horror is under the ocean.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was just a little bit afraid that people would feel let down by the inner turmoil, nature of Issue 3.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think it's, and I think it's more, for me anyway, I'll speak for myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's more effective.
[SPEAKER_04]: Those micro moments, it takes a little bit to the golden spiral.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you dialing in on that is what hits me harder.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it makes this stuff when you dial back out even more intense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really glad it's going that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say that infernal Hulk is act two.
[SPEAKER_02]: So incredible Hulk.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first 30 issues is all Ben just put in all the pieces on the board.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we're in this awesome place where all the pieces are there and now it's he's he's the monster of the marvel universe and we're we're going to see we're going to be seeing a lot more appearances from other like big heavy hitters and marvel.
[SPEAKER_02]: That starting like immediately like let's see issue issue five I'll spoil some shit on issue five we're going to see the Avengers a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to start seeing like we're going to see X men we're going to see other like beloved characters like it because Hulk is now this big hassle for the whole Marvel universe and that all builds up to this gigantic act three that's coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, man, I can't wait for you to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really excited for what's coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is all excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to talk about that, like you said, you have a lot of files on your computer.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't talk about that yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Rather than ask you at a specific, when may we find out about some of those future things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we talked in like San Diego before then, after then, with San Diego or before then.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right around that time.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is going to be a little window of time where people are going to be like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, PJ's exclusive like when we're going to find out what the fuck he's doing, because I mean Superman still coming out for a while and they they did give me time to wrap up my my Batman or Robin stuff and everything, but I am already I'm already working on two other series that nobody's seen yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of them is coming out this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other one is like we're slow vuring it till next.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's this other one is a passion project of mine that I'm super excited about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it actually got pushed back in lieu of this bigger project that I think fans will be more excited for.
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually I myself am getting more excited for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it'll be getting announced if I had to guess I would say, again, this is a guess because it's real early still but probably June or July it'll get announced and then you'll see why I've been so busy and quiet.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel it.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is all awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Congratulations on finishing up your Batman and Robin run.
[SPEAKER_03]: We always have so much everything coming out from you and excited to see whatever those mystery projects are down the pike.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate you reading it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say one last thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Act 3 that's coming in Hulk, there's going to be a little teaser coming very soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the preview of that is coming soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're going to see and that's
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I can't wait for you to see where my baby this is going to get.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh man, good tea is good tea stand out for the baby.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll try it with you and yeah, looking forward to everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Always a pleasure, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a ton.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can take care of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you
[SPEAKER_00]: They sit on crappy gadgets and they let us see what we can, and he's just nothing, they're like fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so fast, they're so