[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Hall of Scott podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are your host.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Stephen and Kyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's Monday, holocult, you know what that means.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've chosen us to hang out with you to get us through the work week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Slow and seductive slow and seductive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Slow and seductive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Throwing the curveballs that they may be hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got quite an interesting little case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put it forward today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give you a little snippet
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a defense contractor.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've all in our control.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've just spent the last week at a classified research site in the Utah desert.
[SPEAKER_00]: A place that has a history of cattle mutilations nuclear warheads.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, strange lights.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Objects that appear in disappear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go home.
[SPEAKER_00]: three nights later, your daughter wakes up and asks who's the tall man standing in the hallway.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no one there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then your dog starts growling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then your motion sensor camera goes off.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about the hitchhiker effect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody's getting around house.
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of hits close to home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Considering what we went through a little while ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it gives me the hippie jeepies.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good use button right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get into that after we get through the socials and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, welcome to the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're new here, let me go through some business.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't want to listen to it, you can fast forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's magical buttons on every piece of equipment you consume content with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do love how it's magic.
[SPEAKER_00]: That you can fast forward through what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also through the ads that you hate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's magic science.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do that though.
[SPEAKER_00]: because you're a human, and you have fingers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, try it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not new here, welcome back.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's us again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a paranormal experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd like for us to feature on a future show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle's got some info for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Howl's got a podcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna write your story out.
[SPEAKER_01]: With much detail as you possibly can.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna hit that little send button.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna go, shawl, shawl.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's going to be in our email, which is the most preferred way of communication with Steve and I.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to take that we're going to put in the catacombs you're going to get your own show one day when that day happens going to be like winning a lottery or getting struck by lightning whichever way you want to equate it you know it's here and or there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one, one way or the other, you're gonna be, you're gonna be famous, you're gonna be known.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's for winning billions of dollars or getting struck by lightning, you decide.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really up to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your destiny is in your hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All it takes is for you to hit the sin button and forever changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gravy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's fucking real.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's plenty of ways you can do it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another solution to your mystery.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are just coming with solutions.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's nuts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go check that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also got a store, holocaust skypodcast.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All the cool kids are doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't forget Steve.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got to shatter them glass ceilings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shatter that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Minkeens nine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Minkeens nine says 10 out of 10 UFO emoji five star, not only do we get five stars, we got 10 out of 10 out of five stars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, nice over a cheven there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Minkan says, ever hear the saying easy on the eyes?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, these guys' voices are easy on the ears.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't express enough how much I appreciate a good voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're great folks who know how to keep you listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I sure wish my dad was here to appreciate y'all with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please still listen to George Norrie faithfully.
[SPEAKER_00]: And many conversations about what's out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would have really loved your show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you both for what you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Smiley face.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Minkens, we appreciate you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we wish your dad was here as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that one kind of got you in the fields there for, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, A, I thought initially, someone was gonna basically come on to us for the first time ever on a review.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like, you know, he heard that saying he's on the eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said we got faces for podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they said.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was complete opposite of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you hit us with the family lineage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, and that's a weird feeling when I hadn't really considered.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that the the weird feeling for Stephen I that the appreciation of the weird was passed down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that now we're a part of that Lors and it's a cool like my brain just goes to the the father and I don't know in this case if it's a son or a daughter and they're sitting there hanging out listening to our show.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a weird feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're glad that we can
[SPEAKER_00]: positive memories.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for the five star rating interview and sharing that with us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to hear from now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just like that, we are back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I kind of alluded
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to dive into one of the strangest claims that kind of emerge from I guess initially UFO research but then it kind of spans out into broader phenomena and that is the hitchhiker effect.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just to be clear, we're not talking about smelly people on the side of the road, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to make sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they're going to, they would be way easier to deal with.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, that's true, but there's still kind of paranormal in their own, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the hitchhiker effect refers to the phenomena where individuals who visit locations with high paranormal activity, particularly skinwalker ranch, report that strange and haunting occurrences follow them home.
[SPEAKER_00]: These incidents often include UFO sightings, poltergeist activity, shadows, orbs, suggesting that the paranormal experiences are contagious and persist long after they leave the site.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: What, I wonder who like initially makes that statement.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's first talked about in the book, the hunt for the skinwalker and then also in the skinwalker in the Pentagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those two books is essentially I feel like where the term kind of gains traction.
[SPEAKER_01]: be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I say that because it kind of feels like an uneducated person making that claim.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just write it off the rip here because I don't know a lot about the hitchhiker effect.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can definitely tell where the the where it's kind of trying to go, but it makes me just
[SPEAKER_00]: That's essentially it, but the hitchhiker effects sounds cooler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of goes beyond that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, in terms though as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also glad that it does that because it has such a unique name that I actually want it to be more than just that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the term is largely associated with research, obviously conducted at Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, where visitors, researchers, federal agents, scientists have reported experiences, not only at the ranch, but also at their home, sometimes thousands of miles away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Reported events include strange electrical anomalies, objects moving or disappearing, hearing voices, footsteps, seeing shadow being, seeing different colored orbs, kind of spreads the whole
[SPEAKER_00]: Today I'm going to talk a little bit about it and I got a few different dives into people that have particularly experienced things from the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we got to start out at skinwalker ranch, which as you know, Kyle went in hard on skinwalker ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys haven't listened to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to go back, find those episodes, which I don't know where they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know which ones they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Find them, Kyle did a multi-parter
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually rather disappointed in seeing Walker Ranch anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's become like a weird money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like a side show attraction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like a not even a more like a fucking side of the road attraction, essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to go into a whole bunch about skinwalker ranch, because like I said, if you want to know about it, go back and listen to the 76 part episode we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a bunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it four on skinwalker?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe another there's a couple.
[SPEAKER_01]: The star dust is our longest Star dust is like six.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_00]: We wouldn't deepen the skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a lot there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a massive thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's let's look here.
[SPEAKER_01]: there's tons of lore and experiences around skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't lack in that neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's only a two-partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe it's only a two-partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe one-partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but go check it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hold that thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: Episode 23.
[SPEAKER_00]: and episode 24.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dang, those are the data, really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, you're gonna go check them out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't judge us on those episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were young and fresh then.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also might be why there was only a two-part or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of got more confident in our abilities as we've gotten years under the bell.
[SPEAKER_00]: More better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, more better.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to start us going to walk a ranch in the mid-1990s Aerospace billionaire Robert Bigelow purchased a property in northeastern Utah known today as Ken Walker Ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ranch already carried local full floor tied to Navajo legends in the area of shape shifting entities.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what drew big loads of tension reports from the Sherman family who claim to experience a whole gamut of different paranormal activity from UFO sightings to pull their guy guy's activity, cattle mutilations, large, unidentified, cryptid S creatures, it's whole bunch of phenomena going on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Biglow formed the National Institute for Discovery Science, where scientists, veterinarians, and surveillance teams would go on the ranch and try to collect data about what was going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: They installed cameras, motion sensors, radiation detectors, you name it, Biglow put it on the ranch to collect as much data as he could.
[SPEAKER_00]: For years, the research shows reported anomalies that seem to escalate under observations.
[SPEAKER_00]: As researchers were coming and going, the phenomenon kind of changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: People were reporting things happening to them as they would get home.
[SPEAKER_00]: So according to the hunt for the skinwalker, written by Cole and Keller and journalist George Nap, some investigators began reporting disturbances after leaving the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, not necessarily at the ranch, but to being home.
[SPEAKER_00]: This counts included shadow figures standing near their beds and their bedrooms, different color orbs floating through hallways, objects moving without explanation, electronic malfunction, children noticing entities before the adults mentioned anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Objects essentially appearing and disappearing from different locations, almost like teleportation shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which denote I've had all of that happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Except for maybe the objects, I haven't noticed the object thing like, you know, like despairing and then reappearing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't really.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it could also fall into like, hey, it left my keys in point A, found the point B. Yeah, so yeah, you definitely have, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I know where we're gonna go, like, I know this is gonna tie in to what we experienced.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's almost verbatim, what they experienced.
[SPEAKER_00]: which makes you wonder if X has as much power as can walk away.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be fucked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say that out loud and I'm like, that's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: But go Saturday, warned us.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said it's a portal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll follow you home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wish you would come on and talk about the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll probably circle back around to that after I kind of talk about some of these people's experiences.
[SPEAKER_00]: One government affiliated researcher allegedly returned home to find Poltergeist activity witnessed by multiple different family members.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another reported his children experiencing night tears involving tall humanoid shapes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds familiar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Ranch Research Later Intersected with the Defense Intelligence Agency Program known as AASAP, the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program.
[SPEAKER_00]: Back in action's detailed in the skinwalker at the Pinnagon book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some government officials were aware that investigators were reporting personal paranormal
[SPEAKER_00]: which is a pretty big deal, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That you have government officials acknowledging that government scientists are bringing home some sort of anomalous activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: As they are investigating the phenomena, they begin to realize that the phenomena appears
[SPEAKER_00]: to transfer, obviously, from location to person, but also there are several accounts of family members that experience activity without ever visiting the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's passing from person to person.
[SPEAKER_00]: They use the word contagious.
[SPEAKER_00]: They use the word virus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is a gross, it's gross.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sox, yeah, it sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, you end up having exposure to this intense paranormal activity, the experience or comes home, you have small disturbances that are starting to be noticed by essentially other family members than it escalates, and then it kind of gradually pulls itself out over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: The phenomena almost feels response like responsive to the person visiting a ranch, which is bizarre in itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: That you've got like it makes it terrible because it it's not I feel like when they visited the ranch, they were going into its space.
[SPEAKER_00]: to take tabs on the phenomena, but then it flips the script where it is intruding into their private lives, almost the same way the investigators did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is weird, that's a weird observation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like it's sort of looking for intelligent because you have accounts of children seeing things, pets acting weird, motion sensors going off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've pulled a few different cases of essentially the hitchhiker effect that has been documented from skinwalker ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna talk about that for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've got one, two, three, three or four.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, we're gonna go into the defense intelligent officer
[SPEAKER_00]: anonymous who goes by the pseudonym Axelrod in the mid 2000s a defense intelligence agency officer referred to in the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Humphor's gonna walk a ranch under the pseudonym Axelrod became involved in a government-funded investigation into skinwalker ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't consider himself someone to be prone to paranormal beliefs.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a career intelligence officer.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was very analytical, very structured, and very grounded.
[SPEAKER_00]: His work brought him into proximity with phenomena that happened at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were reports of high strangeness, UFO sightings, poltergeist activity, and other anomalous occurrences associated with the ranch and related cases.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be known that Axelrod never came forward to say that he experienced any of the paranormal activity at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was simply there documenting other people's experiences with the paranormal activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So essentially, he didn't have to have contact
[SPEAKER_01]: with whatever the phenomenon was that is wild that all I mean it is but it isn't because we know enough now that it would still make sense to us to be like hey all all I did was go here I didn't experience anything but then I get home and now things are happening
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes it even weird or turned because once he got back to his home in Virginia, after one little stint at skinwalker, he wasn't the one that started experiencing things.
[SPEAKER_00]: His wife was, and she never went to the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like it's it's hopping.
[SPEAKER_01]: With.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to write you around this around in my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love when the wheels are turning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's like the way that you just kind of frame that is interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because could could that almost in a way?
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, this is a rough thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you listening will work some of it out, Steve and I will work some of it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it almost, in a way, explains the phenomena, like we talked about in my episode, The Leopard Men, how it spans, cultures and time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like it explains that in a way because you have skinwalkers that are kind of isolated, to the Navajo regions, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it does trickle out eventually.
[SPEAKER_00]: same, same essential phenomena happening in different geographical regions with different names.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like what if, what if somehow some way will, will, will just use skinwalker as the current example, somehow that's locked to a region.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then somebody comes in and it's capable of attaching and they travel outward.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it jumps, makes you wonder.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it somehow it begins to replicate in that culture, but that culture doesn't know about the skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it calls it the window go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Create the zone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's somehow spawned its own mythology.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how that works, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is an interesting thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: Strange.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is strange.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is in the count of Axelrod's wife's encounter, first, which he had other family members encounter stuff too.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first is the bedroom incident.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the middle of the night.
[SPEAKER_00]: 2 a.m. Axelrod's wife woke up abruptly.
[SPEAKER_00]: At first, she thought that she was still dreaming.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she saw it, a large, solid, black humanoid figure standing near the bedroom door
[SPEAKER_01]: This is after what happened to you and exactly what Maddox talked about yeah Crazy yeah, and I engaged didn't describe it that way, but he described seeing a head basically somebody's He described somebody standing in the doorway.
[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy Right yeah He didn't describe it as like a shadow figure.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just said someone so but it very well could have been a shadow figure
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, the shadow wasn't, it wasn't defined, but it wasn't vague.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had mass, it had dementia, and she could see that it was a humanoid figure.
[SPEAKER_00]: She described it as tall, fully formed, and darker than the surrounding darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, as she sit there, this thing started to move toward her side of the bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: She immediately felt fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: She did not feel confused.
[SPEAKER_00]: She did not have sleep paralysis.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just pure terror to the point where she screamed and it woke Axelrod up.
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as he woke up, whatever the entity was disappeared.
[SPEAKER_00]: The room was empty, house was quiet, he got up, obviously, searched the whole house, didn't find anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: No signs of intrusion, all the doors were locked, all the windows were sealed.
[SPEAKER_00]: but his wife still had this experience of whatever this thing was.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a couple of things here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this could just be, because the presented approach you're taking, A, here's something that kind of just crossed my mind, and hearing her recollection of the encounter,
[SPEAKER_01]: uh the description of pure fear they kind of hit me in a different way this time because I think it would be fair to say that anyone in that moment would feel the same way even if said shadow person didn't have negative intentions
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like your description of the encounter is still going to be that, you know, you're you're terrified, you know what I mean, like that, that panic would set in if a normal person was inside the home, that fear would still be there, yeah, I don't know because like when I
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see anything, I don't hear anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a prime, like, they look like and describe it as a primal fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't compare that to having someone in my house that isn't supposed to be there because I've never had that before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like a primal fear would be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's why that analytical,
[SPEAKER_01]: statement comes out of my mouth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the way you're presenting this is making my brain tract differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what if and it is kind of based on the conversation a little bit that's even I had off air.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what if?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if we're looking at this all wrong?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if
[SPEAKER_01]: scientists, just not from here, what if it is from here, what if it is from here, you know, because that's not far out of the side of the realm of of astral projection and those types of situations.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is rather strange in all of our cases.
[SPEAKER_01]: that it was a figure in the doorway observing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fucking weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does, when it's all framed and worded that way, it does kind of feel like, and scientists is a lack of words for me, because what if it legitimately is, like it feels like somebody is watching and observing, the segment of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: this, this, you know, uh, because someone is someone entered my domain with the intention of observing and watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm going to observe and watch your moment in time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was going to, I was going to kind of go off on tangent there like how it is tied to these specific paranormal geographic locations like skinwalker for our for our lack of a better term for our example would be when we visited X because that's when everything started popping off right right.
[SPEAKER_00]: it is a like it could go both ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be it it looking in on us because we looked in on it or it could be something essentially we brought home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just I don't know it's like you said the way that it's kind of being framed in our previous conversation it's making my brain track differently than it normally would and it's just putting new thoughts into my brain that I'm trying to kind of work out as we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also makes me wonder
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we heard, we've done deep dives into the Andrews family.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've done deep dives into the hellfire farm.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hellfire farm kind of felt like it was its own paranormal portal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in these other cases, did I wonder if these people visited essentially sites that could have this same effect?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting question, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's one that we'll get the answer to, but it is an interesting question.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that I hadn't considered.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anybody would actually consider it to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we take those stories at such face value that we don't think many, I don't know that I've ever heard in interview where something like the Andrew family happens and that question is approached.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ventured into an area that was known to be haunted or yeah, I think it's a I think it's a good question that maybe people should start asking Especially if you take this into consideration.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so bizarre So over the next few nights the disturbances continued escalated She began hearing heavy footsteps downstairs after everybody in the house went to bed
[SPEAKER_00]: very not how settling noise is very deliberate foot steps.
[SPEAKER_00]: She said at times she thought she could hear the cabinet doors opening and closing in the kitchen.
[SPEAKER_00]: There this is weird too.
[SPEAKER_00]: One time she reported that the distinct noise of something metallic being drawn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: sucks, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was literally what I've had going for years and now Steve's experiencing, but in the same concept here, like I told Steve prior to the episode, ever since Steve started hearing the bean, what we call the bean, I don't hear anymore because it doesn't happen
[SPEAKER_00]: Each time Axelrod would get up, he would go turn the lights on, check the rooms, nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I always think that you're going to say Axelrods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Axelrods would get up, check the rooms, turn the lights on, nothing, nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the wife kept experiencing the sounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: It escalates again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, where that attacks to his wife, because that happened with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like it's out to, like we just talked about in the upper man, to invoke fear in our most vulnerable states, you know, like we talked about when it was going on, who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, back yard encounter.
[SPEAKER_00]: One evening she looked out toward the woodline at the edge of their property, kind of where the trees butt up to their yard, and she sees something leaning against one of the trees.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stood up right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Rose.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was large had a canine wolf-like form, broad shoulders, long arms, it did not run on all force, it stood vertically.
[SPEAKER_00]: She thought that it was watching and observing the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lighting was dim, but she did notice the shape.
[SPEAKER_00]: You recognize the shape as it being some sort of, like essentially, where wolf-like can it?
[SPEAKER_00]: that stared at the house for several seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: When she turned the floodlights on, it disappeared.
[SPEAKER_00]: Days later, their teenage son also came forward, reported seeing a large canine-like animal figure running from their backyard into the woods.
[SPEAKER_00]: He described it as unusually large, upright and posture, before dropping lower as it moved.
[SPEAKER_00]: which we didn't necessarily hurt our experience, but it was experienced from the initial family in the skinwalker ranch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, early in my history, I had the encounter with a dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Early in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's going on in my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so confusing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, but like, I'm getting these ideas of, like, to me, the way all this is being presented.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, whatever is going on in these descriptions.
[SPEAKER_01]: makes me feel like these whatever this is is what has been referred to time as the watcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is exactly what goes under Dave called the entity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's fucking weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, with with the cane and the creatures,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think most people initially think of dog man, but Steve, we've talked about not in depth through a show, but of cultures of suppose a dog man that have interacted with people before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, look at the form that was seen at the hellfire farm.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Egyptian dog hit a god.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you saw that in the dark, what are you going to think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's basically a wearable for a dog man or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: continue on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Inside the home, the activity persisted intermittently.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was again more loud bangs in the kitchen, footsteps ascending through the hallways and toward the stairs before stopping.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were senses of movement per a field vision, which that's a constant here.
[SPEAKER_01]: and like all the noises and shit that you're describing, like opening cabinet doors and shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that feel like to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, it feels like explore exploration.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's something I never had, like I said, the way this is all being presented is making my brain track differently than it normally would.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I have that in my head right now, and I could be completely fucking way off, and I need to get off this train, but it just makes me feel a type of way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause none of it right now seems malicious.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does feel, I don't know what's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: On another, at least one other occasion, Axel Rods, Axel Rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Axel Rods is wife again, reported seeing a dark shape in the bedroom doorway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Said this time it did not approach.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just remained in the doorway almost as if observing and then dissolved into the darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Axel wrote himself did not initially witness any the entities directly, but he did hear the noises.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was kind of partial to the experience, but not to the same effect that his wife was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also weird that he's not seeing the entities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of strange to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's obviously had a psychological effect on his family.
[SPEAKER_00]: They began sleeping with the lights on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Children wouldn't go into certain rooms.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had essentially only been exposed to reports of the anomalous phenomena at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't experience it himself and now whatever the phenomena is has moved itself into his home.
[SPEAKER_00]: His home that no prior history of hauntings, the family didn't have any occult interests.
[SPEAKER_00]: I keep as a government official, a government scientist, the defense department of defense guy that was brought there to just record the experiences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so for all accounts, he could have just been completely impartial to the paranormal in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he may have went in there like this is this dog shit, but I've got a job to do and I've got to record these encounters, so fuck it, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you almost won an unbiased person to go in there so you get essentially quality data.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have somebody that super believes in the paranormal?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be like, oh, you heard that sound over there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely a ghost.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you saw a light flash over there, definitely UFO.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, there were no environmental changes to the property either.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was another thing that looked into day where they remodel in their house.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they stir up anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually over time, the intensity did decrease.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as a whole, you have visual apparitions, reported auditory disturbances, the outdoor creature sighting, which is a wolf upright, wolf-like entity, independent corroboration with the children, and when I was like, I think I got another little section I put in, according to Column Keller, George Napp, and James Latasky,
[SPEAKER_00]: e-traveled the skinwalker rants in an official investigative capacity participated in briefings and reviews of anomalous case material was presented during discussions of prior sightings in phenomena was exposed to what the program considered high-strangeness data.
[SPEAKER_00]: The book does not describe Axelrod as
[SPEAKER_00]: having any kind of paranormal experience at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not witness the wolf-like creature.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not experience any poltergeist activities or shadow figures while being physically at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: His role was specifically observational and evaluative.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the way this, it's bizarre in how the essentially the hitchhiker moves.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it can essentially move, it can almost bypass you as a whole and move to your family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: That sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: The next case we're going to get into is the Julia wit case.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Julia was just a civilian scientist.
[SPEAKER_00]: She never went to the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was not part of any classified program.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was not in the military.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was not an investigator, but she did marry a senior department of defense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Person, it was deeply involved in government-sponsored investigations into the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have again, another person, it was never there that experienced weird shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like a, it's almost like the paranormal's version of AI.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it's just like putting like every time an encounter or something new.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, let me explore this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me, let me suck in as much information as I get situation like maybe maybe there has been's not that great, but maybe it was like, oh, shit, she's a scientist.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's smart as fuck.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna see what I can suck out of this
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the book, Skinwalkers, the Pentagon, the husband of Julia Witt, identified publicly as James Latasky, or LaCatsky.
[SPEAKER_00]: My bad, LaCatsky is one of the few officials described as having a direct anomalous experience at Skinwalker Ranch itself, not just follow home effects.
[SPEAKER_00]: During an official visit to Skinwalker Ranch in 2007, LeCatsky was taken into a ranch house that had previously been associated with unusual activity, while inside the house, specifically near or in the basement area, he reportedly witnessed a dark humanoid figure, large dark humanoid figure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was described as tall and solid, it appeared suddenly inside the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was characterized as fully formed and upright entity.
[SPEAKER_00]: The encounter was brief, had no extended interaction and just vanished off into the mist.
[SPEAKER_00]: La casque interpreted the experience as a significant, incredible enough that it influenced his push for a formal government study into the ranch and the related phenomena.
[SPEAKER_00]: According to the book, the experience made such and made an incredibly and strong impression on him, he viewed it as direct evidence as something objective was occurring at the ranch, and it became part of the justification that initiated a sap program under the defense intelligence agency to begin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, prior to that, there was no paranormal history in his house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, no... San Francisco rituals, no occult practices.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where his wife comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Juliet reported sensing someone standing in the bedroom doorway late at night.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly the same phenomena again.
[SPEAKER_00]: The feeling was so strong she would set up in bed fully alert convinced that someone was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she would look again in the doorway would be empty.
[SPEAKER_00]: The shape darker than the surrounding darkness around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was upright human-sized.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: She could not make out facial features, but she perceived the form of the mask.
[SPEAKER_00]: The shape moved silently.
[SPEAKER_00]: She froze.
[SPEAKER_00]: The figure seemed to glide rather than walk, and then it was gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: After that, her children began reporting disturbances independently.
[SPEAKER_00]: One child describes seeing a large shadow in their hallway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another spoke of a presence standing near their bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Neither child had been told about Julie its experience at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their descriptions were similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tall, dark, motionless figures.
[SPEAKER_00]: The manifestations didn't happen nightly, but they recruited enough that it caused dread within the children.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't want to sleep by themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: They went on the lights on.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would leave and they would come back and find that their doors in their house would be slightly at jar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their lights would be turned on when they had turned them off.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also had unexplained sounds from downstairs when everybody was in bed, footsteps, thubs, cabinets opening and closing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Julia, it's husband.
[SPEAKER_00]: LaCascie would get up, go check it out, find nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the activity continued to escalate beyond simple visual sightings, household objects began behaving strangely.
[SPEAKER_00]: On one occasion, a heavy object reportedly moved completely across the counter with no visible cause.
[SPEAKER_00]: And another, an item was displaced from its original location in a way that did not align with gravity or accident.
[SPEAKER_00]: So another thing moving without any explanation.
[SPEAKER_00]: family became hyperware of every noise, their sleep was interrupted, then again, another weird thing, one of the most unsettling episodes involved in outdoor sighting near the wooded edge of their property, a large upright wolf-like creature was seen moving along the edge of their property, sometimes upright, sometimes on all four.
[SPEAKER_00]: Depired on the tree line and would retreat back into the woods.
[SPEAKER_00]: The creature was described as disproportionately large compared to normal K9 wildlife in the region.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't however find any tracks or any physical trace afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so weird that it like For whatever reason these people are seeing large-cated type creatures.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's as exceptionally bizarre to me right now that is, I guess it's just because this the sheer connection between it that Yeah, these people visiting skin walk a ranch and then what could essentially be perceived as skin walkers are You know, fuck with these people and it's weird that the canine phenomena is kind of across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because that was in the initial encounter.
[SPEAKER_00]: that skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of one of the with the original family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the starting points to skinwalker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where it came up and attacked the calf, essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he tried shooting it and anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which it's almost leads more strange credence that whatever the thing was there has been passed on to the fact that it can be passed on to people who are never at the ranch
[SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing if you visit it and you take it, but I guess it's no different than when we visited X.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because who was who were the first people to experience things in our homes?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was our kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who will never obviously never at X. Fucking weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: A couple more counts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Column Keller's family account.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Column Keller began a working as a scientist for the privately funded investigation.
[SPEAKER_00]: happening at Skimwalker Ranch in the 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was essentially a biochemist brought in to analyze data.
[SPEAKER_00]: His background was in immunology and molecular biology, not a paranormal investigator.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was brought in to examine biological effects, animal injuries, psychological anomalies, environmental data.
[SPEAKER_00]: The strange activity at the ranch was something
[SPEAKER_00]: Shortly after becoming deeply involved in the ranch investigation, disturbances began at his family residence in Nevada.
[SPEAKER_00]: At first, the events were subtle.
[SPEAKER_00]: His wife, again, first won to report any activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: His wife began to report an uneasy sensation at night, feeling of being watched.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then she started hearing noises.
[SPEAKER_00]: heavy-foot steps in the hallway, knocking sounds or knocking sounds coming from empty rooms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Movements downstairs after everyone else had gone to bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Keller would go search the house, not find any evidence of an intruder, no evidence of forced entry, no environmental causes, nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: These disturbances only began after he had essentially been exposed, whatever the phenomenon was, this can walk a ranch on multiple occasions, family members reported seeing dark figures inside the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were described as solid black shapes, humanoid and figure tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: They started out stationary at first, usually positioned in doorways or corners, but then as the encounters went on,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, one of the children reported seeing a figure standing near their bedroom door watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right on par.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at least one instance, the figure seemed to move with deliberate motion before disappearing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then came the Poltergeist activity objects begin to move.
[SPEAKER_00]: One incident involved a heavy object shifting and position on a counter without any force moving it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another involved items falling or being displaced in ways that did not align with anything happening in the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was episodes of loud bangs against walls and doors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, cabinets are opening, cabinets closing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Household disturbances could not be traced to plumbing, wind, structural causes,
[SPEAKER_00]: They went on to affect their sleep, psychological stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also saw, again, strange wolf life creature at the edge of their property, which is bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: Massive wolf like broad tested, appearing in an upright position.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so crazy that they all fit the same narrative.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it has a routine everywhere it goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does change though for George Napp.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Napp went to the ranch as a journalist
[SPEAKER_00]: he went there specifically, like with the purpose, I don't want to use the word sensationalize, but almost to record and put out what the phenomenon was happening there at the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So his involvement with Skinwalker Ranch began in the 90s after learning of the National Institute for Discovery Science being funded by Robert Biglow.
[SPEAKER_00]: not visited the ranch multiple times in every witnesses reviewed field data.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not there as like a primary experienceer, which is the way the ranch staffs were who had to encourage or interact with it all the time, but he did report unusual events.
[SPEAKER_00]: During a visit to skinwalker ranch, NAP described witnessing strange phenomena firsthand.
[SPEAKER_00]: They moved erratically, unlike typical aircraft.
[SPEAKER_00]: They appeared and disappeared without sound or navigation.
[SPEAKER_00]: At times, they seemed stationary before accelerating.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were also reports of animal reactions, dog refusing to approach certain areas of the property.
[SPEAKER_00]: NAP described moments where the atmosphere felt charged since of anticipation among investigators.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like almost they were waiting for something to occur, like the anxiety was just building up.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was present during periods when cattle mutilations and creature sightings had recently been reported.
[SPEAKER_00]: While he did not witness personally a full body creature manifestation like ranch caretakers had, he reported seeing unexplained lights and experiencing the overall environment and reported it being deeply settling.
[SPEAKER_00]: NAPA stated in interviews and writings that individuals connected with the ranch sometimes reported,
[SPEAKER_00]: similar follow-home events.
[SPEAKER_00]: He talked about sudden electronic malfunctions.
[SPEAKER_00]: He experienced anomalous phone interference.
[SPEAKER_00]: A sense of being observed and also experience unusual light phenomena in proximity to his home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some retellings nap describes strange activity occurring around as property
[SPEAKER_00]: The manifestations were not portrayed as pro-long and extreme as compared to the others.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did notice orbs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, weird electrical stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of an offset from where the first three encounters were, but he did bring home essentially something strange from from the ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: This obviously got me thinking about our experiences coming back from X because they are minus the dog like creature, because as far as I know none of us had any kind of experience with that post X.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything else kind of lines up and it's weird that it almost falls the same
[SPEAKER_01]: it is weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was different for NAP, obviously, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like and I know you said there's probably going to be a part two and maybe that is going to, I feel like we're missing a piece of the puzzle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not that it's your fault or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like there's a piece of the puzzle missing right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not tying it all together for our brains right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of like like why the variance with nap why why does it have the same routine why is it latching on to people oh yeah to begin with and it it it jumps to like it's a systematic thing like it it's it's so weird to me that in almost if I remember right every one of your cases
[SPEAKER_01]: per you being different out of that, it jumps to women, which is weird, and the and children, it prefers women and children over men.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because almost in every one of them cases, the woman had more reports, the woman and children had more than the man, yes, which is weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is kind of the same thing that happened to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what happened to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't have any of those experiences.
[SPEAKER_01]: My wife and children did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you had the bean drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we all heard that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the first case, you said, homeboy heard all the noises around the house.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't see anything but heard the noises.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the metallic clank is fucking weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's almost like,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like putting it, putting it in the perspective of the phenomena when people get too close to a perceivable answer to the phenomena, it's almost like it starts to push back, like you stare into the void of the void of stare back, these people who are on the ranch, taking analytical data.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then this weird shit starts to happen at their house, almost like it's trying to scare them off, which it kind of makes sense that it doesn't go directly for the men because they were the ones at the ranch, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They, in the phenomenon's point of view, it's almost like these guys aren't
[SPEAKER_00]: scared enough, essentially, scared enough not to come here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get them the next best way we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start messing with our families.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a shirt far away to 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's definitely because you, I mean, I guess I could see a lot of men trucking through the experiences and going back in and being like, no, this is my job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the second starts messing with your wife and kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: It changes because that's a level of vulnerability that the men don't know how to navigate because you can't fight it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, you know, because if it was fireable, they would just fight it and be like, get fucked.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's this area where they're like, the men will hold responsibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll say, this is my fault.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now my wife and children are being terrorized because of something I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of
[SPEAKER_01]: Continuing this pursuit, I'm just gonna bow out and say, fuck it, fuck the job, fuck the research, I'm out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that's the only, that's the only logical explanation at that route.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because because if you're dealing, if you're solely dealing with yourself, like you can take a, a, a, a, a, a weird shit, like, hate all kinds of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as starts affecting your family, it's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 100% different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your kids are too scared to go to bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're, your wife can't sleep because she's seeing figures in the hallway.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a dork.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, that boils down.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be a psychopath to keep, to keep putting your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is almost like the, whatever the phenomena is, doesn't want people getting too close to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it, it is like it's essentially, fight some pushes back.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that they refer to it as a contagion or contagious and a virus,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it, it's almost like it knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that though.
[SPEAKER_00]: How to get to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like it's attacking your emotional immune system.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it'll get inside you and it'll find your weaknesses and then it'll pick them out.
[SPEAKER_00]: T-t-t-t-t-t-t I don't know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I don't know that 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna use the word by it, but it's not really what I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I like the idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: that because like even in my leopardman episodes and other other ones that we've done, you know, these, like these, these liminal beings that especially them, I'm learning this a lot as I go through these like forced and jungle type entities, they all command like a level of
[SPEAKER_01]: for them as a whole.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm kind of coming around to this idea that I fully buy into what Steve saying about their like for whatever the phenomena is, whether that's the phenomenon as a whole, or just the phenomenon that's at the ranch or whatever the fuck it is, I don't know about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do feel like
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, we were, and this isn't fair, because we were talking about this all fair, and I'm not going to elaborate too much because there might be another episode, so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do feel like there are people that deal with the phenomena and get a pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's the phenomena may or may not command you to walk this, this didn't line slash tightrope without telling you fuck all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you cross that,
[SPEAKER_01]: It may turn on you, or it may do what it needs to do at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird because it does, and I'll use that word again.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does seem like it chooses vessels, which is gross.
[SPEAKER_01]: To either facilitate the message it wants it to go out, or it chooses vessels to snuff the message that's being put out.
[SPEAKER_01]: it is crazy and i just had a fucking thought now it's gone which is pertinent to the snuffs area Jesus' vessels to snuff yeah dang it it was a really good idea and now like now it just went away it's because the phenomenon doesn't want you saying it maybe no it was in relation to egress dang it
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we, that was the same time period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it where you talking about feeling connected?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was so, it was a different thought.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking about the vessels and the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like, it was like, whenever we were talking with Egress and Egress said, like, they were cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, it was all, it was all kosher in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how else could I have a friend?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that is not.
[SPEAKER_01]: What loyalty to us and we fail the loyalty to us and we failed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the phenomena is similar to that situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can combine that 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think it is and I think that I think it's just like we were talking to how there are people in everybody listening, Steve and I, we all will meet people that we instantly mesh with and will meet people that we instantly clash with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that stands true to this phenomenon thing too, where there are some people that are in the same zone that we are, and the phenomenon says no, fuck you, it doesn't matter what you say, see you later, it's almost like technically at that point the phenomenon could then decide for itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: when it wants to be found, how it wants to be found, how it wants to be perceived.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, it's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting concept to try to run your brain down those lanes of thinking, which, which kind of leads credence to the phenomena being,
[SPEAKER_00]: some sort of intellectually advanced, emotionally advanced entity, essentially, to be able to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or a collection of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or a collection of.
[SPEAKER_00]: to be able to manipulate people the way that this thing does based on fear and my next episode, if I can find enough meat on it, it kind of goes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you can, because I think the conversation that I'll spawn from it will be its own thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is kind of kind of goes into the area of like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so advanced, can it essentially, when fear isn't enough, can it manipulate people to essentially silence the people that are looking into the phenomena?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we should definitely run down that line of thinking in another episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think it's too interesting, like even just the one, like the one example you gave me of the conference.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's way too interesting to not bring it up and talk about it and get that out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very bizarre that it all plays out the way that it plays out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really fucked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And isn't even, I mean, it's not, it doesn't even necessarily have to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: an offshoot of the skin, or of the hitchhiker effect, because I don't necessarily think it plays into that, but it could, it could.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the realm that the hitchhiker effect is being used as some fear tool to keep people from getting close intellectually to the phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fucking feels like a crazy ass, government conspiracy.
[SPEAKER_01]: bugging right because for some reason like my brain keeps entertaining this idea that this phenomenon like like a government entity that is like hey let's like they have the ability to I don't have an astral project or whatever to manifest.
[SPEAKER_01]: and send it all directly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so, it just feels a way for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like some, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a set of scientists collecting data on paranormal activity of other scientists that went to a place to connect, collect data on paranormal activity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so, it's so, it feels like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it it's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what I got for today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really want to keep running down the avenue of what the phenomenon could be.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is parallel with what we experienced at X.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were warned, like on multiple occasions, we need to protect ourselves, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't pay any attention to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were warned by Ghost Thunder Dave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't go to X, it's portal, it's bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: He literally uses the term the watcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: He literally use the term it'll follow you home.
[SPEAKER_00]: We go, we come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: The very things that they're explaining that came back from the ranch essentially happened to us Our children seeing things things in the doorway here in weird noises Cause wife experiencing weird things I experience shadow in the blue right now I talked about it on the shows before, but we may have some new listeners we can get into that people and hear about it That also brings credence to the question
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it specific to skinwalker ranch, which essentially it wouldn't be because how many of these places that has the capability of sending out the contagions exist Thanks for hanging out with us Hope y'all have a good week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out our socials.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go subscribe to the YouTube
[SPEAKER_00]: And until we meet again, stay safe, stay weird, and help spread the hollow sky, contagion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the hitchhiker contagion.