[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Mastering Rock Building Podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host Bill Faulkner, and very excited for a very special guest today.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have any interest at all in surf fishing, distance casting, or you are a serious surf angler, especially in the Carolinas, then my guest today is no stranger to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: none other than the man than myth, the legend, Tommy Farm.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just for those of you, we don't have time for me to go over all of Tommy's qualifications, but he is a, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: A World Champion level distancecaster, he's won 50 tournaments in the US, including 16 national championships, tournaments he's literally, I'm not exaggerating, has held every single, has held our whole every single distance casting record you can have in the US.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's the man.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has traveled to Europe five times to represent the US, four times he finished in the top
[SPEAKER_02]: At the to that point, largest casting tournament, international distance casting tournament, the world had ever seen he finished second overall in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: He, so he, he needs no introduction, what it comes to, you know, competition level distance casting, but he's also a very avid surf angler.
[SPEAKER_02]: He got into the distance casting because he's such an avid, big red drum angler in North Carolina.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, he is not personally a rod builder, but he everything else about making the very best distance, guessing rods in the world from designing the blanks to managing their manufacture and finishing factory rods to the highest standard for people that want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Distance absolute max distance casting capability for both competition and for fishing There's nobody better.
[SPEAKER_02]: He also runs Carolina cast pro where you can get an exclusive series of Akios rods that he works with Akios on and with their American reals.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Akios reals We're gonna talk about the whole tackle system.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got all of his rods.
[SPEAKER_02]: So please welcome without any further
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate being here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm awfully glad to have you and we couldn't hardly ask for a better guest.
[SPEAKER_02]: If any of you have attended ICRBE, you might have met Tommy or Tommy and his wife and his team, they're usually there with Carolina Caspero.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have bought several, he has all the kit you need.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's going to become very clear to you very quickly that Tommy's been on the sand a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: or the rocks right and he knows what he's doing and uh he's got some great kit and like the the rod holders the best I've ever used the heavy duty rod holders and we're using him Tommy down here on the Northern Gulf Coast for land-based heart position.
[SPEAKER_02]: I lost one rod one time
[SPEAKER_02]: out of a PVC holder with a 50-wide and you know a big land-based shark rod and the whole rig and it's like never ever ever again So I'm running your heavy duty rod stands now, and that's been a good thing for me, but Welcome to the mastering rod building podcast we we were talking before we started recording
[SPEAKER_02]: And you were telling me an interesting story about how you got into the distance casting, you were actually outfishing and you caught one of these massive land-based red drum that you really kind of can only get probably in the Carolinas.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're just not that many fish that big.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm efficient losing it all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we catch fish to 40 plus inches all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're talking about, you might tell them that story about, you were out there one morning, and as casting, you've never seen someone cast as far as this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: 1996 October, myself, my brother and some friends decided to take a trip to Cape Hatters.
[SPEAKER_00]: To this point in time, I had just fished locally here the beaches of southeast North Carolina, Carolina Beach, Fort Fisher.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was, I was nobody, nobody, you know, I was absolutely just a regular guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We decided to go to Cape Hatters.
[SPEAKER_00]: got up there and one of the tackle shops told us that the previous or that morning that previous night that morning that they caught drum.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a big drum run and they said they'll probably be here again in the morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we packed up, went down to the beach, got there about 4 a.m. got out of the truck, got rigged up, started walking to the beach and I saw a guy and this was before there were limits.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could keep these fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw a guy dragging a drum
[SPEAKER_00]: By the Gilplate and dragging the biggest bit biggest drama I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen anything like it so my excitement meter It was it was up so walk down to the beach and on my very first cast that I ever made from Cape Point and let 11 foot I think it was a pin power stick rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: No great big 8500 or 9500 size spinning rail right I think my first cast from Cape Point caught fought and landed a 45 inch drum
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was, it was a life, actually, was a life altering, um, morning, me for a cup for the reason of catching at fish plus right after day break, um, Uh, my buddy and I were standing in a gal walks up, kind of behind us, but to the right of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I turned and watched this guy cast and I had never seen anything like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy bombed a cast out there way past everybody else hundreds of feet past me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a way we passed everybody else and he just kind of he just kind of looked and audit and moved on down the line well come to find out that this guy was actually the raining.
[SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina state distance cast in champion.
[SPEAKER_00]: His name was Mike.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Kate used names.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, absolutely Mike Mike.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike Langston.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a he's a buddy of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're still free.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows you still is title five years later.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not I was not the fastest study.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't I didn't get good fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to work for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But about five years later at a casting tournament.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took his title.
[SPEAKER_00]: I took it over.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had it.
[SPEAKER_00]: His record of that time was like 775 feet and I and I took that title from him and it all it all spurred from that one early morning on K point and with Carolina where number one I called the biggest on my first cast I called the biggest dream I'd ever caught and then and then watching my cast it I don't know it let's something inside of me and I wanted to learn to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, how lucky are we that you were there that day and you all went down there and that he was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, really.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's so amazing that this one deflection point.
[SPEAKER_02]: This one sent a little bit could have changed the course of the rest of your life and this became your world.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a my career that time I was operated and ran a power plant.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with I got an opportunity years later to take early retirement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I walked away from that career 52 and
[SPEAKER_00]: I did an easy transition for me, but it all stemmed from that morning at Cape Point, North Carolina.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was very cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Mike and I, we were friends after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're still friends of this day.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's so, it's so amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a great story, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what if he wasn't there?
[SPEAKER_02]: What if the fish weren't there?
[SPEAKER_02]: What if the shop had sent you to a different beach?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and a lot of people don't know this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the entire history of Fuji is based around competitive distance casting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so a lot of people don't know this, but this is back a hundred years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kazuhito Umura, Umura-san is the current show gun and runs Fuji globally, right out of Shizuka Japan, Fuji Kogyo company limited.
[SPEAKER_02]: But his father and his grandfather,
[SPEAKER_02]: and they started out in, I'm going to get, let's see if I get my years right, they started out in
[SPEAKER_02]: it was in the 30s and they ran a metal stamping business and specifically they made print press and tight press pieces and plates and things like this right and then they started making they were among the first to figure out how to stamp out a metal a men's watch bracelet right or a ladies watch bracelet where it was a bunch of little links that had to be precision formed where it would be kind of slinky and raffer on your wrist and be comfortable
[SPEAKER_02]: but be made out of metal right and so that was the family business but both the great grandfather the grandfather and the father were hard core competitive distancecasters and so they started looking for a competitive advantage frankly right and looking for a way to
[SPEAKER_02]: looking for a way to improve their they're casting performance and they had all this metal stamping equipment and so they started they were in reugie umara became obsessed with the slickness of the rings uh and you know tried all different kind of materials including precious gyms stones and metals and various levels of polish and all this kind of stuff and uh ended up
[SPEAKER_02]: tumbling to ceramics which in the beginning were very brutal and so they figured out how to encase a ceramic ring and sort of a shock ring material to protect it and put it in a frame, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is sort of where they came from and in something like, I'm going to get it, I think it was 1938, this saw started and in like 1945, the eldest Omera wrote a short document called Ryugi's Principle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is in the 40s, and it is essentially what we call the new guide concept now, right, which was small ring, high-frame guides that are very slick to bring the line quickly under control, right, so that it can get efficiently through the guides and, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: Maximized casting distance so so this is a this whole topic is very near and dear to my heart and to food these hearts because it is literally The origin of the company right and that's what started them on a path and eventually they had so much success with that They partnered with Lou Children in the US and started exporting their products for the first time in the late 60s early 70s and literally the rest is history, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a fascinating world and you know It's interesting to me too because
[SPEAKER_02]: Distance fly casting, those rods don't resemble a fishing fly rod at all, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It is like a different tool for a different set of things, but there's really not a huge amount of difference between what your distance casting with and what you're fishing with with this type of distance casting, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so talk to me like, I know there's some practical differences like, what's your personal longest cast you've ever thrown?
[SPEAKER_00]: My longest cast ever was in practice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had some time about 2005, the age of 2006.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was 897 feet, I measured it three times.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how badly I wanted it to be 900.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't make it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was 897 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my longest cast in competition,
[SPEAKER_00]: Z859.52 feet, and how do you even go to practice casting, man?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can hear your range.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and Wilmington, I was lucky.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found a field that was over, which it doesn't exist anymore, because they've developed it, but there was a field at the local, they call it international airports, just because they're connecting flights to other international airports.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, big field out there, it's a parking lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, but I used to go, I called it my field of dreams.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I wanted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, when I got started in this, I was not, I was 39 years old when I started.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a late starter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're late starting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most guys were, you know, most guys get started in their 20s.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was a late starter and it was a, you know, it was a challenge for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to learn the techniques.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could not get by on, you know, athleticism or sheer size and strength.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was a learning curve and I had to take
[SPEAKER_00]: one chunk at a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every two learned that you learned from Mike or who did you Mike Mike and our competitors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We probably may have learned some from Mike, but there are a list of guys that I would call mentors.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a guy in Texas's name was Jerry Valentine and he mentored me.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a guy up in Virginia bill Kennedy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He helped get through my rock hard head.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're both names.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then probably the single biggest influence on my cast was a guy from the UK as name was Peter Thane.
[SPEAKER_00]: He took me, he came over here, I went to a seminar that he gave, and he took an interest in me, he saw some potential in me, and he helped me to understand the mechanics of the cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's actually going on to dynamic to the sinker,
[SPEAKER_00]: and where it needs to be in the path when you hit the rod and it it really opened up a window for me and then there are others another a couple other British guys and that one Roger Mortimer and Neil Mackello he knew Mackello was passed away he was a world champion multi times over but he also took an interest in me and
[SPEAKER_00]: back, you know, right after Al Gore invented the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we started being able to come to somebody, somebody fact check that, somebody fact check that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're all about integrity of data.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're on the National Security Reg, only podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, he helped me a lot via email.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it just started a war out three video cameras.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I would go to the field, I would go practice for two to three hours at a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: three to four days a week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that for over a decade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would take a video camera with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was what it's how I was able to do it, a video take every single cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by doing that, I would throw a cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And while what I thought I had done was still fresh before anyone out and got the sinker, I would go look at the I would look at the video tape and look at it and I would say, you know, what you thought you were doing Tommy, what you're actually doing were two different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got to tighten up, you got to get this fix.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how I did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was pretty much self-taught with a lot of help.
[SPEAKER_00]: from other people who did mentor me on the proper techniques.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and kids listen to what he just said, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were talking before we started recording about the 10,000 hours, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that there's no substitute, even if you're talented, there is no substitute for putting in the work, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And even for world champions, second place in the world like you, national champion, like you many times over, wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's like,
[SPEAKER_02]: professional level hitter, you know, recording, badning practice level stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's like serious deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And kids are like, oh, that's easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just do it with your phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: No kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't have a phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had like VHS or a beta cassette recorder.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You look up what those are.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're out there still on Wikipedia.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was back when we're so all this is back when in our history class, we just talked about what we was doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's how long ago this was, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going back to the late 90s through the 2000s and a lot of people didn't even have a video camera back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wore three of them out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's that's how I did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my path.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, what I do now, I teach a teach people to cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I try to cut through that learning curve.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know what works, I know what works for me, what didn't work for me, what I can do to smooth out that learning curve.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's short.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in the fact that you've developed a whole range of products that make another thing that change is I'm sure you couldn't just get an accio's real, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you couldn't, we'll talk about the gear and the kit, but it's also kind of, it's so much easier to get your hands on this stuff now than it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: It thanks in a small part to stuff like Carolina Casper, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where you've said, I try it all and I know what's the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so here's what I recommend, here's what I use personally and here you can get it if it's what you need, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also cool, you know, y'all understand that he's also designing and manufacturing blanks, you know, overseeing the design of blanks from the ground up to high quality finished rods and knows a lot about the process we're going through with component selection, layout, handles, layout of guidelines, all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to talk about all that just for my frame of reference, you're talking about these nearly 900 foot cast and obviously
[SPEAKER_02]: How does that compare to the distance you're casting when you're fishing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you throwing cast over 7800 feet in actual fishing conditions too?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are they generally not sure?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: These cast on the field are with basically torpedo shaped sinkers to very aerodynamic of specific grams of weight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no bait involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are you're restricted based on the diameter of the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: So each weight has its own
[SPEAKER_00]: line diameter associated with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you remove the bake, and you're a standin on solid ground in a field, your distances go up, which is typically set to field up with the wind behind us if we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it all adds up, you know, that being said now, somebody who trains and understands the dynamics and the techniques of distance casting is going to
[SPEAKER_00]: who thinks he knows, and probably the worst ones are the big, strong guys who just bull power cast it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they can get 500, 500 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But after that, they run into a wall that they gotta have technique to get past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to answer your question, I would say an average
[SPEAKER_00]: cast for me on the beach is going to be between four and five hundred feet with bait.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a long way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And revolving spool reels, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So like again, I want to be very clear about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're using what we call an overhead reel, revolving spool reel, a bait casting reel, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Typically not on level one, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, this is a very specialized piece of equipment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know, I know that we have a lot of east coast.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... servicemen a lot of us because servicemen uh... a lot of Gulf Coast servicemen they're like oh you don't serve cast of the revolving school real but again you can't fish a spending real if that's what you want to do do it but uh... again there's a there's a there's a talk to me about the real a little bit because that's a very important part of the kit if you're trying to extend your distance this is a tuned tweaked tournament bank asked in real i keep it in my office just to show people uh... what what it is and what it's capable of doing
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to roll the magnets all the way off on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You, I've got the drag tight.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to flip the handle and put it in free gear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this thing is going to spend for days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about free spool people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's spinning right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably hard to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I usually will put a, you know, put a black margin dot black.
[SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't worked the rod on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we can, we can have a conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to put this down and I'm not going to touch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll show you again in a few minutes that it's still spinning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was been for about five between four and five minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's, that's the degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still still still go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, you're still getting it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you say you're talking about that as a tune tournament reel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you fishing with the reel like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you fishing with it?
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_00]: This reel would be used to fishing because you can't without breaking it down and going in, lubricating your bearings, adding magnets, taking steps to slow it down.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't, you can't fish it as too fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, it's tuned to me for when I was at my peak and it's really probably a little too much for me now, but it's very, it's very spicy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are literally sitting here talking, it's a minutes later and then I do this with eight castors and BFS rules and stuff all the time like this thing is still rolling.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not kidding.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What kind of real is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a custom, it's a Zeta Tuning cage with a Zeta, a Zeta Spool Zeta size plate, it's all Zeta, which is an Italian company that makes high performance casting reels for competitive distance casters.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty much
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty much the Cadillac or the Mercedes of the of the distance cast in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just starting to slow enough that you can almost see there's will roll to get too much to it has been it's later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's still she's still getting it and when it comes to a stop, you can watch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of the one of the things that I use on tuning in real when it finally comes to a stop, it should just turn and stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it rocks or rotates, that means you've got a little balance issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's heavy on one side.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to kind of, you know, sometimes you got to strip all the line off and go back and rebalance it and crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the the Eagle feathers and fairy dust of real balancing is how you put the first 20 to 30 yards of line on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how that's how you balance one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how you make one that is capable of doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: A real that's not balanced, even if it had the same bearings, and it is not going to spend the other vision.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this knob over here, that's the, that's the magnet when I get ready to cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put the magnets on almost full, so that I can control that initial, initial burden asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, as it's flying, our role, the magnets off, keep two or three.
[SPEAKER_00]: Strain seats slowing down now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now you can actually see it at a human's beautiful rotation crosswalk me then translate me from this to a fishing reel.
[SPEAKER_02]: So talk to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned a few things But talk to me about all the things that are different and talk to me about the reals.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're actually fishing with okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fish with a real The companies called acuose or it kills.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're out of the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: They make a fine a fine quality real all the way across the board they they
[SPEAKER_00]: They've had one for a few years now that they name the F-15 Nitron, they just came out with the one called the F-16 Nitron and I just love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great real.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's far as comparing casting that to this real, it's really apples and oranges because,
[SPEAKER_02]: I like my fish and reaper and application.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My fish and reels are like on the slow side.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I took one of my fish and reels and spun it like that, it might spend 10 to 12 seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, men be instead of 34 to five minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's all about gaining control of the spool.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who won't fish baitcasters because they're afraid of the burden as it
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's a part of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still happens to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get them when I'm fishing in crowds.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll still get them once in a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's embarrassing people laughing you go on getting another real.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you can get it to them and get it balanced so that when you hit the rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: That line just flush up a little bit then settles back down that you can ride that edge and you can actually throw.
[SPEAKER_00]: these baitcasters further than you can throw a spinning reel.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the point, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Then that's what I want it people to understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fish would ever make you happy, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm telling you the bestcasters in the world can't come close to the same distance with a spinning reel as they can with a multiplier or overhead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not if you're not if you're staying legal, if you're staying legal, you buy legal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, line diameter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: A spinning reel.
[SPEAKER_00]: loaded up with light sand braid will throw a long, long ways, but they're illegal internments.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got your got to be restricted to your line diameter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have limitations fishing off the beach with rocks and with sand bars and with real world conditions where you have abrasion as a concern too, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this real, and I'm looking at this nitro, that's a really good looking real for those of you who aren't familiar with these reals, it's a round profile, open cage,
[SPEAKER_02]: Think of a round sound real like an ambassador almost but wider very specific spool width and side plate geometry handles star drag all this kind of stuff So it's a good looking reel and similar in size to a 6500.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I was going to ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but no level line, okay, totally open top, right, a fully machine good looking piece how are you spooling those and this is not competition now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about for fishing are you still running mono off the beach or are you running great?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm running monofilament on a bait cast right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't there's a lot of things about Brady line on bait casters that I don't like now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are this will entice an argument.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are going to be people that say, oh, my 65 pound braid does just as good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the fact that when you're fighting a big fish and we catch drum here on the outer banks that are you know 50 plus pounds world record 94 pounds was caught here the last two world records were caught here in order to line and so we get we get the big fish and we use the big casting reels I run
[SPEAKER_00]: typically monophilament in the 20 to 25 pound range while I'm drumthishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's so light for the fish that you're catching, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're using shock leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is very, very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say this to anybody who thinks they may want to distance cast and apply any of the techniques that we were going to talk about today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Use a shock leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean a bite leader, a shock leader,
[SPEAKER_00]: A stretch of monofilament line.
[SPEAKER_00]: We usually use 50 to 60 pound test.
[SPEAKER_00]: from your when you're when you're when you're when you're your bait when you're cast ready and your bait's dangling up the up the up to the rod tip down to the spool with a minimum of eight wraps on turns around the spool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I was going to ask I've heard three before but eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, three is not enough if you have the slightest bit of foam slip, you're going to get that that zane pile that crack off.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that three horns can see me surfish before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that that's what happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: I typically run about 15.
[SPEAKER_00]: wrap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that night now you're getting into more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not so much for the cast as full when you're fighting the fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get what has been gone on and you know one thing I'm watching for when I went on fighting a big drum I'm watching for that not the shot to come up and out of the surf out of the water then I watch it when I get it on the rod tip.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll even step out into the water a little bit to get it real up on to the spool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's the fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the fish is really big, you still got to be careful, but if it's you know, a 20 to 30 pound drum, you can just lock down on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you've got him once you got it to the shock leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had a fish back about, well, it's been about three or four weeks, about a month ago now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had the the shock leader on the spool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this, there's a big fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was probably, it was high 40s, low 50 inch drum.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the diagonal wave washed out from under it and pulled it in snap to line.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get my finger off quick enough on my thumb.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, yeah, it can happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can happen to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guarantee it can happen to the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of the rest of
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to tell you that that fishery you guys have is pretty remarkable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm always fish for red fish and Venice Louisiana and I've always been impressed with the size and the quantity, but I started slow pitch Jagan with a couple of guys who become really good friends of mine who fished the outer banks all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alan Rosenberger and Alex Scott and I'm showing him pictures and I'm all proud of him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, here's my biggest record.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think we're eight and a half inches and they're like oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we don't represent much.
[SPEAKER_02]: They start pulling.
[SPEAKER_02]: I swear to you, like every fish they've got, so over 50 inches.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're not taking a picture of one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, holy God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you mentioned the world record, they that hadn't been that long when it got broken again.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they sent me a picture that day.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, if you've never seen a 94-pound red drum, it's like, it's almost like something out of your dreams or your nightmares.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I didn't know they got that big.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're big and it's kind of funny November I think it's November the 7th is National Drum Day the last two World Record drums were called in Avon North Carolina the last one was in I think 84 and then prior to that it was like 10 years earlier they're both called the same day out on in Avon North Carolina said
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's a, you know, it's not a real national holiday, but if we call it it ought to be, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is on this episode of the podcast, but it is right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So 20 to 25 pound mono to 50 or 60 pound shock leader and have you developed an opinion about the join between the mono and the leader and how does that inform guide size like talk to me about because it's all a system, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have the whole tackle system has to work together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, mine not's better than you are not not not not not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't I don't play that you what you got to do you've got to find a not and there there are many of them you've got to pick a not that you can tie when it's raining.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it's cold, you got a flashlight between your teeth and the drum are biting right you just walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come back conditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we know when you are at the highest level of stress for fishermen, you've got to be able to tie a knot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want something that's going to be small.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to go through the guides well, a great big honking knots, not good in any circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they get caught, they'll rip the inserts right out of the guide.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the second.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had one happening to me this past trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost three guys on one cast and I don't have it, but it's skip one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's skip one, but it rip three of them out, but, but yeah, I tie a simple knot.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go as far as you won't there, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the shock knot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an overhand single overhand knot in the on the shock leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: You run through through the shock later when you're running line and then do a five to six turn unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a really lubricated well, pull it down slowly and then pulse it to lock it down.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's I've got I've got 150 pounds sharks on that not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so it's it's a good not tired properly.
[SPEAKER_00]: There'll be some guys who tell you all that nuts junk.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't use that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's all about what you can tie and turn under Duresh 100% 100% I have to confess I am one of those not nerds who likes a time and put them on the machine machine and see what's strongest and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: But even with that, if you can't tie it in combat conditions, our current handshaken when it's going on, it's useless to you, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to believe in it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And even if it's not as good or not, if you tie it really well and consistently believe in it and can execute it, then that's a good not for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you should
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, shock not that's interesting and then in terms of terminal join are you guys like is this like eight and bait or like yes, yes, yes, okay, yeah eight ounces and a chunk of bait is is the typical now if it if you're out there and the wind's not blowing and it's not rough number one you're probably not going to catch a drum on that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: with the weather, you know, if it's nice weather, you might, you might get lucky, but the odds are interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when winds up and the wind's blowing in your face and the current's drift in, it's a unique place, key point is a unique place.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sets up, if you get it more than a day of say the wind blowing out of Southwest, which is what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get it blown out of Southwest more than a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get what we call the Congoline set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go to the end of the line, you'll cast eight and bait out and it'll slowly drift.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cast out and you walk and it's like it's like a revolving door almost.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have a rod that he can throw a latent bait with, but damn it, he's going to bleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to get, he's going to get that, he's going to, he wants one of the grumb that he sees.
[SPEAKER_00]: He takes a little tin foot rod and throws out four ounces in the two drop bottom rig.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then his family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, his stuff goes hard left.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everybody else lived in long.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what does he do?
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't move down.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to stay in front of your line.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get why you grow.
[SPEAKER_00]: As long as you keep it in front of you and you're not crossing over other people, you're fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he stands there and it goes down and then he thinks he's got something that he reels in.
[SPEAKER_00]: He reels in six guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that's not a great unhappy guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do not win.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels people that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's it's a unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really truly is a unique place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just on the fish with his own rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I would advise is anybody who goes there for the first time, taking our walk down to the water, get behind these guys, not within calf, where they're going
[SPEAKER_00]: But stand there and observe, just watch and learn.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a, there's no the place that I know of where they all say and when in Rome, do as a Romans do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you're inevitably going to get somebody down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to, and Mon, Mon filament line is what is fished there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get somebody that is going to throw braid and that calls us problems too because it cuts Mon filament.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that's another point that people will argue, but it is when you're there, it's best to fit in and do what the local do here and again, to the 10,000 hours, have a little respect that there's some people who've honed the system and know how it works and if there was something that worked better, they'd be using it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I consider myself to be a pretty good drum fisherman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my casting exploits are well known, but I consider myself to be pretty good fisherman, but there are guys out there who are better than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tip my happy these guys are guys that just amazed me how they can they can they can walk up and catch a drone when nobody else is catching Yeah, that's crazy Yeah, yeah, some very very skilled anglers a frequent that place.
[SPEAKER_02]: So so talk to me and we're gonna get I'm sort of I'm sort of going slow and teasing everybody We're gonna get to the main event, which is the rod and get into the length and the handers and the attachment of the reel and all this stuff But just briefly on the terminal rig, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So are you guys regulated for circles only for hooks?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if you think we're not robbed and don't believe we're regulated and I'm bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty certain of that because a lot of guys still fish Jay hooks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think circle hooks because that's what I like and I just want to flip down kind of rig with a spot in the way or talk to me about the rig.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically a fish finder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, rig with a very, very short lead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, most fish find the rigs are going to be 12 to 18 inches and they're floating all around and you can't cast them because they helicopter going through the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Taking that lead down to about an inch to inch and a half inch and add your sinker and the white make almost just they're very compact small.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, load as it's flying and it helps to give you more distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as you put up a long fixed find the rig on there, long leader fish find your your distances gone because it's okay with doctors as it flies through the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: typically eight out of ten out hooks, circle hooks, and eight out sinkers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if anybody doesn't know what we're talking about as a fish finder rig like walk us through it because you sell them you can get them at Carolina Cas pro and you can see exactly how these work.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for those who may not be watching or here aren't familiar walk us through what one of the how one of these rig just kind of put together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, basically the end of your shock leader, you slide through a sliding, there's different types of
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where it slides on there runs up and down your shock later and that's where you put your sinker on the end of it you tie your your hook to it and that's where you put your bait so that when you're casting that sinker slides right down against.
[SPEAKER_00]: the bait, and it just forms a nice little compact payload.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just a slatter fish finder rig.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and if you, you can see a picture of it, and you can buy them pre-done, pre-crant pre-everything at carelinecastfro.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in our just Google, the quote-fingers Tommy Farmer Fish finder drum rig.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got his own rig named after him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll see.
[SPEAKER_02]: But thank you for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's super helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now the main course, the PSDL was his thoughts.
[SPEAKER_02]: the rock.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so this is a specialized piece of equipment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got to tell you there's a part of me that was Chucklin.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I fish a tin foot rod off the beach here in the Gulf Coast, now of course we have very little current, very flat beaches, very calm conditions, relative to what you're dealing with on the regular there in these turbulent waters that have these massive fish.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, um, yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: 10 foot rod is long here right and you're like someone walks out there with their little bit of 10 foot rod I was like oh, or here I go.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's 14 feet standard what what's what's standard when I started fishing k-patterns Their standard was about 12 feet okay And from my distance casting and that time it wasn't a background it was something I was just getting hardcore into
[SPEAKER_00]: So I started bringing in an introducing some of the 13-foot rods over here and it took off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not taking full credit for that because I can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did start to introduce some of the longer rods and it took off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now the standard is 13 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: On occasion, somebody, they'll probably give us something as long as than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the additional length of a rod helps you in several ways that gives you more, a longer lever to cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know how to use that lever, you can get more distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also when you're standing there in the Congoline, then you're holding the rod up, you can be, if you can cast out past everybody, hold your rod up, you can actually get by with throwing a seven ounce and seven, eight, then you can drift faster than everybody, but you're out past everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't cause any kind of problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's a lot of little tricks that you can do, but yeah, that's how we do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So obviously one of the big topics that always comes into play, and I know you spend at ICRBE and spend a lot of time talking to people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, this is one of the great things about going ICRBE is you can have people like Tommy.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has been there personally.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go talk to him about how to set up one of his gin three blanks, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: For exactly how you're fishing, what you're fishing for, like he's got him, he's unbelievable over the water, rod holders.
[SPEAKER_02]: or over the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you call them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm like, when do you even need a ride holder?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that just for when you're tired?
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't, we don't use them when we're drum fish and hardcore.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's funny is that on a typical day at K point in the afternoon, you know, it's nice sunshine and people
[SPEAKER_00]: That back your truck so if we're having down to water and people start sands bike fishing right off the point and then the drum fishermen show up you know an hour so before dusk and they're like you know you you're going to have to move this you've got Current and conditions number of anglers will dick and people people get mad people get mad, but they end up moving or somebody's going to
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're going to they're going to move it for him because that's going to solve it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to solve itself again and again.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't solve it, you get 50 anglers out there that are pissed off because somebody won't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something.
[SPEAKER_00]: None of us having a good time at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that comes back really to what I mentioned a little while ago about just observing, taking that hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, at noon, I have a sense bike out there, but don't do it at five o'clock in the evening when the typical dusk bite may happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the current happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the current right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the rod.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we start talking about a 14 foot rod, this is a very different animal than a eight other nine foot rod, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we start at the butt and work to the tip.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how how what have you learned how should we be thinking about the handles, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I've seen a lot of people do a lot of different things like sometimes these rods people using temporary real attachment points so they can have the real one position to cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another position to fish how do you how do you set up your factory rods and how do you personally like your rods?
[SPEAKER_02]: And again acknowledging that there's personal preference and not everybody's fishing the same way in the same place and all that But you are an expert.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do have 10,000 hours doing this How do you like to set up your handles for something like a 14 foot rod for eight and bait?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I will almost stick to the 13s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to sell a 14, but I quit doing it because it just didn't sell at 1313.
[SPEAKER_02]: So my back, my back just got a little better.
[SPEAKER_02]: My shoulders just got a little better with that flaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: The 13 fluoride designed to throw 8 in bait and they are typically rated up to around 12 ounces or more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's got to be fairly stiff.
[SPEAKER_00]: okay it's a fairly stiff powerful rod modern carbon fibers taking a lot of the weight away from it they're still lightweight but they're very very powerful rods and what you see a lot of with guys they first when they first go out there they'll have a rod it may be 12 feet long maybe 13 but the little butt handle on it's only you know 20 inches long and that's not enough when you're throwing 10 to 12 ounces
[SPEAKER_00]: a short handle, which really applies to smaller rods, 10, 11, 12 foot rods, you use speed to generate distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get from here to here quick with a lighter payload with a shorter handle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the bigger the bigger the rod, the bigger the rod, you need leverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need spinning, you need leverage to be able to create the torque and leverage to get that rod around and be able to execute it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you take the butt of a rod, it's just an old blank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put it in the center of your stern right here right in the middle of your chest plate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you stretch your hand straight out and I'll slide this way so that you can see my hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where the center of your real seat is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: On a rod set up to throw eight and bait.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys are having a custom rod built to throw eight and bait and the builder does not
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you need to change builders.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think this is very, very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: What it does is allow you imagine, can you see, can you see me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm here with a with a with a 10-foot rod and I'm casting it here to hear that's quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with the big rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm here in this powerful in this position.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and execute a punch pull and complete the cast because with a short with a short butt rod for throwing heavy weights.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you fix the reel for the angler at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is permanently attached at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: The real seed is permanently attached.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are options.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do what they call a slide and real seed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some guys, some term it casters and I'm in this group, throw on the casting field, what we call a low reel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reel was actually mounted at the bottom of the butt.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're left hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: My left hand is used to control the reel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't fish that way because you don't have enough butt to find a fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just don't have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I throw high real when I fish and low real when I turn my cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I get them in the next year's that way, but but
[SPEAKER_00]: For guys who wanted to be able to move it, they have like sliding real seats that you can move it up and down.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, that's all fine and well until you get a splash bite.
[SPEAKER_00]: You throw, you know, you got your reel down low and before you can get the real seat moved up, your 10 minutes, 50 pounds wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get yourself in a bind pretty quick like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that distance, that measurement is very important for the handle length of a heaver.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as you go down,
[SPEAKER_00]: As you go down in weight payload, that you can show it to the shrinks.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my 8 to 12, which is my heavy hevers going to be 32, 32 and a half inches because that's for you personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If for me, but I'm coming average guy, I'm thick, but I got short arms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it ends up at a bottom average for for so for me 32 and a half,
[SPEAKER_00]: But my next rock down to the 13 foot 60 10 is at 31 and a half.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go down.
[SPEAKER_00]: They keep dropping.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go down to my 10 foot or I think it's 22 inches on my 10 foot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so they're considerably and it's, you know, all about the lighter payloads.
[SPEAKER_00]: being easier to cast and you can utilize more speed than torque and leverage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, one of the blanks you have that I was looking at that I was so fascinated by was you got eight foot or now for we have an hour to one and a half and like for Pompano and stuff we do here, that thing maybe it's got my name written all over it.
[SPEAKER_02]: How short, how short you go on one like eight feet?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I'd say I don't have my tape here with me, but I'd say about 12 inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, on this on this eight foot, it's not it's not it's not it's not long, but it doesn't need to be when you throw in one I draw that short.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's back to speed not to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not the tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so yeah, this and all all of my, you know, as a as a plug, all of my Roger, how much was carbon fiber and the outcome in this nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: heavy fabric bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he, he has them all at ICRVE.
[SPEAKER_02]: You ought to come see his booth and you can walk out with them and not even have to deal with shipping.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are two piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: And very, very well made to Tommy's standards, which are very high.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've talked about the handle.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's super helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, of course, guide train.
[SPEAKER_02]: critical, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're using a non-level line real, talk me through, again, acknowledging this is personal preference based on your experience and the way you fish, and anyone who doesn't think you're an expert needs to make a closer attention in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: But talk to me about guide trains, and specifically, I get, I probably tell me, I get more questions than anything else from builders about guide trains and about finish work, and of the guide trains,
[SPEAKER_02]: So much of the time, whether it's conventional revolving high speed reels like we're talking about, or whether it's even big spinning reels.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we can keep it focused on the overhead reels here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk to me about the way you think about guide trains, guide size, distance to the first guide, and what of the guides are placed for casting distance versus what's maybe static deflection if that makes sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I learned a lot when I in my competitive years even before I started developing rods because we would we would move you kind of got a basic layout right and we would move guys a little bit you could take Especially on the big powerful tournament rods if you move the bottom guy the only guy that's on the butt section if you move it to inches down closer to the rule to the real you've changed the power of that rod you've made it much more
[SPEAKER_00]: powerful because now grabbing more power out of the butt the further that that gathering I the bottom guy the further up it is the less you're tapping into the butt power on that rod interesting okay so you know you don't want of course when the when the rods bench you don't want the line to touch blank at any point so you lower your the number of guys based on that principle but the that bottom guy that that really really does affect the power that a blank
[SPEAKER_00]: can produce in the form of a finished rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can move those, move the guides up and down.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can add, if you add a guide in the tip section, you're going to follow more closely the actual power band of the blank, because you're forcing the rod to bend to the blank.
[SPEAKER_00]: The less guys you use, it'll actually soften it up a little bit and make it a little you can take a rod that's that's difficult to load this difficult to cast you can remove a guy that may be slide that bottom guy up and you can soften that right up and make it much more user friendly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would actually change that I would sometimes during the course of a tournament, I would move that bottom guy depending on how I was feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I was feeling strong and I thought I could squeeze more out of it, I'd take because we would take those guys on.
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't even, we didn't throw out them on.
[SPEAKER_00]: We would use tape and take those guys on.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, I'd take the tape off, move it down two inches and tape it back on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: and just just go from there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love hearing you say this because I tell people all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just at a mud hole advanced techniques seminar and I was telling people like take a roll with tape, take your guide, take your rod, go out in the yard to a football field or out in a street, whatever, and spend 30 minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or one hour just casting and it's like all your questions about God placement.
[SPEAKER_02]: God set up and rod stuff is you're going to answer him and you'll learn more in one hour hands on actually doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you will just thousand hours in a chat room or on a forum or either with people, but so like with your like you have this 13 foot 8 to 12, the real heavy cast pro Gen 3 blank that's this he kind of rod right so.
[SPEAKER_00]: What size and where are you putting that first guide typically relative to this placement we talked about based on I use Fuji K-wags because it It's true a true universal guide Yeah, you can spin or obey caster Right, and I'm about six or seven inches down from The joint is okay that front of God goes
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you go to my 6 to 10 and it moves up a couple inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: The 3 to 6 13 footer is actually at the female side of the joint on the butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: My big rods are all parallel but tapered tip.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the on the 13 footer 3 to 6 is right at the joint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it really just depends on the power of the rod, but on the big rod that you're asking about is 6 or 7 inches down from.
[SPEAKER_00]: the joint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what size are you typically using 20 on the big rods, the gathering guides 25, down to 2016 and then 12, 12, 12, I think the tip is a 12 also, I think you see the 10 or 20.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're either 7 or 8 plus tip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the 8 to 12 is 7 plus tip because it was step in the tip for us often up a little bit and the second 10 is 8 plus the tip tip yeah yeah interesting okay it was all about you know when I was developing and out in the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: doing the testing is what felt good to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I may not be the most scientific, but it is based on real world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, practical experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the priceless, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, oh, by the way, we can all go get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just got to take the time, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were talking about 10,000 repetitions earlier, or 10,000 hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually, 10 years ago, I started a book.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've not, I've not, it may never come to fruition.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd learned about the 10,000 hours or 10,000 repetition philosophy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I started doing the math.
[SPEAKER_00]: And about 2013 or 14, I passed 10,000 practice casts.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I ended up somewhere north of 20,000 when I pretty much quit practicing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's so much to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess that would be a story for a whole other podcast, but that you have to put in the work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who are naturally talented.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are people who are much more naturally talented than I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just outwork them all.
[SPEAKER_02]: In my era, yep, well, and there's something to be said for that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love you bringing that forward because I think sometimes it's easy to forget all the hard work, blood, sweat, and tears that got put into it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But even like you said, even if you are talented, you still got to put the work in, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, yep, yep, I'm rewards, the rewards are there, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's, that's a part of the great part of it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm coaching, I'm coaching a young man right now, kind of a side story, but his name's Connor Brown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two years ago, he came to me and said, only casting lesson.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know who he was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had just no idea about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, me, me, me to feel will do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this young man starts getting out of the truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he keeps right on getting out of truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he, when he gets out of truck, he's six foot seven, 250 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big on one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big country strong guy from South Carolina who is a lineman by trade.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I was in, I was homeless since then for 16 years, starting to know I've been pushing the buttons and all that, but this guy's a mine, and I got the utmost respect for these guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, anyway, he comes to me in the first day, we work on the fundamentals and he throws 300 and some feet, and I'm like, okay, you did good, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: He called me two weeks later, so I went to the lesson.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, well, you know, you need to let that kind of soak in.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, no, I got this.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, I want to talk to a little more advanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he came back to me by the end of the second session.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was almost at 600 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me four years to get to 600 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you had a 67 and no, no, but he called me again about a month later and said, I want to learn about this tournament stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we started, he came back for a specific lesson on tournament casting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was over 700 feet on the 30s, either the
[SPEAKER_00]: either he's number two in the country he and another guy that I did help to coach Ryan Lambert he out they went to to South America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god I'm having a brain for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Argentina they went to Argentina this past year and he took second in the world in one of the categories in the 175 weight gram weight class.
[SPEAKER_00]: He took second and Ryan took second in one of the
[SPEAKER_00]: talking about natural talent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a discist thrower in high school.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's got, he's got, he's got, he's got the most natural talent of anybody I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I look, I look to him and all Ryan, who is also an exceptionally talented castor to to be the first American castor to break nine hundred feet in competition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just come and see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's this
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's Connor Brown Connor Brown.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody all looking off for Connor Brown.
[SPEAKER_02]: You heard it here for Tommy Farmer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a few things.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a, there's a casting tournament down in Green Sea, South Carolina next weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he'll be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might write out there and just just to watch him serve.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, that's got to make you proud, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, anytime the student does well or surpasses the teacher in pace.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's nothing to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's you, you've done your job well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing his as long as casting competition to this point is eight hundred and fifty nine point two five feet okay minus eight hundred fifty nine point five two feet
[SPEAKER_00]: I will be proud of you when it does, Ryan Lambert actually owns the record now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's it's pretty cool that's a crazy that at the end of a cast that long you're separated by three inches.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, think about like that's crazy man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this was it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was in two completely different tournaments.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, but he he he is what Tom what Tom had just said is he'd like to be able to compete with this gear.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got now.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still being a weird position of 2000 and six.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wish we had time machine.
[SPEAKER_00]: that we could have about four or five different casters from down there and get them all together with the same gear that would be fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know a lot about about distance casting candidly.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a guy who runs a company called Breakaway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think his name is Nick Cannon.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember if he's Nick Meyer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nick Meyer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just is a breakaway cannon is this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where cannon came from.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's your cheater and trying to cast a spinning rod.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a release device for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's good?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, and it does and he had a he had a video or some stuff on you and I followed it with some of I was doing it for land based shark fishing and thankfully or not I got to the point where it's like the fish we were targeting and the gear we needed to land those fish we got out of the casting you weren't casting rigs anymore right it became.
[SPEAKER_02]: kayak and, and now it's becoming droning baits out, you know, but um, I did, I did enough practice and trying to learn some of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you guys are fishing, is it mostly a pendulum cast or how would you describe the type of cast you're using, you guys with these eight and bait hevers, uh, when you're doing this long casting for fishing, is it, what, what style of cast are you using typically?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know every angular may be different, but what's like kind of the common thing in these tough conditions that you guys call it?
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually call it a
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is a basic beach cast, a pendulum cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are guys who will tell you that a hatter's cast is a pendulum cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not a pendulum cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's three elements.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got an out swing, an in swing and a power.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the hatter's cast, you just toss it back, turn and hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like the one leg of the pendulum is missing in a hatter's cast.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, but yeah, that's what 90% of the people on the beach are throwing.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: basic beach cast or hatterers type cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever gone out and fish the west coast because it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here you talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went for the first time this spring and we charted one of these long range boats out of San Diego.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where these guys are fish and longer sometimes 10, sometimes 11, sometimes shorter 9 foot rods throwing surface irons.
[SPEAKER_02]: right for y'all tail and for Blu-Fantuna.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're in a boat that's crowded with a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these guys have developed this cast where the lure basically starts by your ear and you make sure no one's right behind you.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that pendulum and then get this thing out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I hadn't thought of those distance casting techniques in a long time that made me think of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're casting in a way that's fairly simple.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a modified way of a hat of his cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not, not put people in harm's way swing in a big long
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically it's, it's a kind of a combination of a of a pendulum tight swing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And overhead, don't cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you rock it back and forth, it comes up close to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get that careful with that type of task.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It generates a lot of power.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you hit the rod too early.
[SPEAKER_00]: With that type of a cast, if the sinkers way inside the tip close to your body, you can snap a tip on on a rod pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I sticking, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's kind of been in it the way it doesn't want to be bent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of these cats that know what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very impressive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're throwing what we would consider to be a fairly light lure, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're throwing these surface irons that often are only two, three, four ounces and naked.
[SPEAKER_02]: The guys who know what they're doing, get it, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, although they're throwing these really really carbon fiber hasn't made it for completed option out there yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like some of these are glass rods that have but oh my gosh, like do they're so heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the one thing I couldn't believe I was like I can't believe you're going to throw that heavy rod all day when you could you could figure out a carbon fiber solution with a ferrule that's not one and they're one piece, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like you literally these guys buy the car they drive
[SPEAKER_02]: The smallest car you can get to pay California gas and parking prices that'll still fit a 10 foot kick stick in it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like that's how they've evolved, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: well man that's absolutely fascinating stuff the guidelines on the handling that really helpful I have heard people talk about this distance and this measure and these different measures to hear you talk about explaining why for a hat or a fever and eight and bait super helpful and in the way you scale it down for shorter rods so thank you for that it's actually less guides than I would have thought so that's kind of an eye opener for me too and that's not just me being a guide salesman for
[SPEAKER_02]: just start playing more guides on every time you come on, but in all the way you're thinking about this is super helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess the only other thing that I'd ask you is, you spend a lot of time out there, you're a coach, you teach a lot of people, common mistakes, common problems.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you had to give like a top three, you already gave a really good one when you said pay attention, watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Before you jump in and get in the middle of it, watch and go with the flow and learn from seeing what everybody's doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can learn if you'll, that's really good advice, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But with these beginners that you coach and teach and people you fish with and that, if you had to point out just a couple of really common two or three mistakes, people make or places you tell people to pay attention.
[SPEAKER_02]: What other things would you call out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I know you must have seen it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've got a system I use when I teach.
[SPEAKER_00]: I call it the fundamentals of power casting okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's basically five there's basically five fundamentals and now I'll just step through them quickly and breathe out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fundamental one is your footwork.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want one of the common things it's it's funny when when you when I go out on the beach you know the K pattern or she can drive miles and miles on the beach I'll ride down the beach and there'll be trucks and people and if I have to see somebody
[SPEAKER_00]: preparing to cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to pull over and bother my just stop and watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a lot of guys who will get ready to cast and they'll start running down toward the water.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll get a little gallop going in throat because they think they think that the full rating momentum somehow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what it does that they might get one out of 10 casts decent because they happen to get their footwork right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that one cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But your footwork is very, very important if you
[SPEAKER_00]: The best way I'm going to describe it is if you think about a baseball player at the batting, getting rid of swing with an open stance.
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, if you're a right-handy castor, if you're right-foot at the center of a clock face in 12 o'clock as your target, that left foot's going to be over to about 10-30.
[SPEAKER_00]: What that does are a lot that gives you room to change.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: It allows you to turn through and get your chest square to the target.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a parallel to the target, you can't really turn or I can't.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get your lower body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so your footwork and having a solid base is very, very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the footwork probably one of the biggest errors is that when people cast, they walk through and they step through when they take the cast,
[SPEAKER_00]: both feet should stay planted firmly on the ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're stepping, if you're stepping, then the reason why is if you're stepping through, you're falling forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're out of balance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're falling forward, one of the biggest power sources on a cast is the left hand pull.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're stepping forward, if you're falling forward, you're shortening that pull.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your neck is falling.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're falling into a pulling left hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, full work, full work is very, very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to have a solid base to cast
[SPEAKER_00]: Fundamental number two is your body.
[SPEAKER_00]: People think that they generate all their power with their arms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your body is the engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your body is the power plant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your body is what provides the power through the first 90% of the cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Done properly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your arms are basically passive through the first 90% of the cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're moving from here to here is you rotate here to here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that last 10% is where they become very, very push
[SPEAKER_00]: your body is generating all the power up at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your body, I look at it kind of as a spring, uncoiling from the ground, not jump and hop and spring, but a torsion spring, uncoiling from the ground up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when you watch a major league baseball player swing, he's not swinging like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's coming through his body, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Professional fighters, if you watch a guy like Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, he didn't knock people out like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It came through his body.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing with a cast you're using the body to generate the power, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, like the javlin throwers using his body to generate the power, the third fundamental is your arms and the proper use of your arms in the cast, and where you apply the power.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the the secrets to long distance cast is learning to put your rod and sinker through the largest arc you can generate, accelerate through that arc, and finish them with a burst of power and speed later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your arms have to play a very important role in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is staying active, staying extended till you turn and get in the right position.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, point four comes in late.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then number four fundamental is going to be acceleration.
[SPEAKER_00]: Learning how to start slow, accelerate through the cast and finish fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the single biggest flaws people have in their cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're trying to throw far, they get it in their head, they've got to hit it hard, they've got to hit it hard from back here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you do that with a bait caster and your throwing eight ounces in a chunk of bait, your thumb is not physically strong enough to prevent that real.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a track car tire traction on a road, you don't have traction.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you let that sink or get moving, you let it get in motion and out on this arc, if you wait until late in the cast, hit it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you hit as hard as you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your thumb won't slip.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all about the proper time to apply the power start.
[SPEAKER_00]: So accelerate, finish hard and fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last fundamental is a number.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 45, 45 degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: 45 degrees comes up over and over.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about our footwork setup,
[SPEAKER_00]: When you got your right foot at Clock Face Center, you left foot at 12, and you move it over to 1030.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a 45 degree offset from Target.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first application.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second application is your target.
[SPEAKER_00]: When people are fishing 95% of the guys that are out there on the beach, casting are throwing too low.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're throwing line drive cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your target is not a breaker or a sandbar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your target.
[SPEAKER_00]: is a spot 45 degrees in the sky above your directional target.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not a picture target align your footwork up to, but then that target changes to 45 degrees higher in the sky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where your energy flows close to the target.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, when you hit the rod, when you hit, you want to stick the cast to 45 degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want the rod to stick to 45 degrees when you finish the cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also the arc you were talking about the guys with the 10 foot rods,
[SPEAKER_00]: overhead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't take cash.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't give you the best art flat side arm doesn't give you the best art halfway between those two at 45 degrees is where you get the maximum arc.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those those are the five fundamentals.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of a lot of little nuances that come into a lesson that really are dictated by the student.
[SPEAKER_00]: what their needs are.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got, you know, got somebody like Connor Brown that's just absorbing like a sponge, you can move the quicker and get to some more advanced techniques, but you know, the hardest kind of teach and this is just brutally honest is the fisherman that's in his 50s or 60s and it's been doing it for 40 years and it wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: And same with all the same with the others.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly is one of the hardest things to do is to break
[SPEAKER_00]: bad habits and green old habits.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's extremely, extremely hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: But most of the time, I can get them on the right track and then they just got to work on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The easiest guy to teach is the young athletic, you know, 18 to 20 year old guy that does it fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has no bad habits.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's basically what I teach.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's fascinating.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're generous to share all that with us on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I made myself a promise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made myself a promise a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was coming up, when I was trying to become the best castor, I could be, a lot of guys would not help you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they were better than you, and their numbers were better than your numbers, they would not help you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're asking them, they would tell you, I'm not going to teach you how to beat me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they wouldn't give it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I made myself a promise that if I ever got good, I was going to spread the word.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to help everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could a lot of rod builders are the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so hard when they learned if they're already right that they're like, well, you should have to learn the hard way like I did shouldn't all be out there on the internet accessible to you, but you know, I'm sort of personally subscribe to the theory of like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost or wasted, you know, so and again Exactly right some of you got to learn on your own like you can't be handed to you But certainly you're very generous to to share all that with us and and help people along I do have if you don't I'm switching gears from the broad philosophical to something real like topical and specific if you don't mind So I've been looking at your catalog and I'm quite serious that I want to
[SPEAKER_02]: build a proper rod and get a proper reel and a proper set up and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Knowing that there's so I was looking at some of these acciose reels like the Niketron, you know, F-16 and F-15 in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of these are tournament reels, some of these are fishing reels.
[SPEAKER_02]: For if someone's interested in their looking for tournament versus if someone's interested in learn more and they want to get a piece of fishing kit like which ones of these should I be focused on as an angler if I if I was wanting to get a hold of one for all of the beat.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of the acus or acus reals are fishing reals are not on the reals turn that real like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: At some point most of them were fishing reals.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have been tuned and tweaked and modified kind of like kind of like taking an old GTO and turning it into a hot rod or an old Camaro or something and you take the base and you modify.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how these reels really really come to be and there are guys out there that are exceptionally.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was good in my day but there are guys out there who really really really can two reels.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, man, that's a whole other rabbit hole dude and I hope this generation's going to pick up on it because it's one of the things everywhere I go people are having a hard time getting people to come in and do raw repair like to have someone in their shop that does raw repair and real repairs even worse right and we have this whole generation of very capable craftsman that are sort of retiring.
[SPEAKER_02]: who who and no one's taking their place and anytime it's come to me and say I kind of like would find some work in fish and I'm like do get into Rod Repair and real repair.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you learn how repair reals you can be as busy as you want to buddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a buddy who does that and he stays busy.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he stays busy as he wants to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, man, Tommy, this has just been extremely helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I have to ask you one question since for those who aren't watching any of this through it, like most people listen as podcasts, but you've got quite a bit of Corvette memorabilia in the background behind you here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a, uh, you big Corvette guy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, uh, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a Pontiac guy, a geeky guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm back in the day, but
[SPEAKER_00]: upon the lift.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, holy cow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my that's my that's one of my babies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: You need a car and it's like, no, I need a truck that can tell you about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can any, and this is his latest angle is like, these newer Corvettes that are so good, you know, that they really change the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, all they're not nearly as expensive as, and they outperform cars to cost three times as much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah, but it's still a two-seater that can't tow a boat, and you can't put big competition on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, what am I going to do with it, dude?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, they're toys, just what they are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but look, it's a good look in toy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like you or I'm riding around in somebody else's.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a GTO, I've got an old GTO, 66 model GTO, that's really my baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm having some work.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good looking car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, man, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: And listen, if you want to learn more, if you want to get access to any of these products, if you want to find out more about anything we talked about today, CarolinaCastPro.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like it sounds.
[SPEAKER_02]: CarolinaCastCastPRO.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you got, you got everything there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got the rods, you got the blank, you got the reels, you can find more information about Tommy.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do have enough space on that website to list all of his tournament with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're interested, you can see that's very impressive list of accomplishments.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're running a sale right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_02]: Free shipping on on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Rods and blanks from Black Friday through January 1st.
[SPEAKER_02]: take advantage of that, and Tommy, are we able to look forward to seeing you at ICRB again next year?
[SPEAKER_00]: My plan is to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've contacted me yesterday and asked me if I'd do a seminar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh good, that'd be great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be a great topic, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been going to the
[SPEAKER_00]: Rob Miller's Expo for probably 10 years now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I've been doing the exposed probably six or seven of those years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I love having you there because anytime someone comes up to me and starts asking me about surf rods.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right there.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's your guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go talk to him because he's forgotten more about it than all ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the the rod show.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a, there's good people and what's funny is you get in there and you run in both, obviously, it'll slow down for a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then a wave of people will come and you're right back wide of, oh yeah, yeah, I was really worried when I kind of heard that it was for sale and worried about who's going to take over and everything, but David Boyle and his wife, the people who bought it, great guy, very organized, like I'm super excited about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're we're going to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to be great and I can't wait to see it there and pick up some more rod holders.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will uh, I'll be there with bells on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, unfortunately, uh, they will walk off where I fish for sharks at night, which peos need to know in, but, um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But so I'm having to resupply.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so if you, if anyone sees any used over the waves, Tommy Farmer rod holders, which are literally the best heavy-study sand spike type rod holder I've ever seen there.
[SPEAKER_02]: That thing's the real deal man, that's like it's like a machinist made a sand spike.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the great thing about the over the waves is that you can literally rub your hands all over any surface that contacts the rod, but you couldn't cut yourself if you tried everything's polished, they really are beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: losing one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every with out fail every year and I'm just going, I'm going to put this out for a PSA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are saying for all sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you cast a baited line into the water and you walk back to your cart or your truck or whatever and you put your rod into a sand spike.
[SPEAKER_00]: Never,
[SPEAKER_00]: Loosen in the drag and turn in the clicker on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have customers contact me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get that call this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a little surprised.
[SPEAKER_00]: But usually I get a call from a customer and they'll be very sheepish and it'll be like Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost my rod and real and I know where it's going, but I'll always follow it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's probably wherever you left it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that you'll go look.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now I lost it to the ocean.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then they come with a story and I already know what happened and and more I've heard this this has been asked to me is that covered under warranty
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things I'll cover most anything, but I don't cover that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been land-based shark fishing for 25 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you can make a mistake, I've made it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had thought I had learned all my hard lessons.
[SPEAKER_02]: But two years ago, I had set a couple of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Starting to get dark and we wait until dark to run them out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was fishing near the kind of down towards the Fort Morgan area of Alabama.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had three rods out, and this one didn't work so much about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a brand new, accurate ATD 50 wide blue, built a rod to match it, you know, like everything perfect, kayak out this bait, drop it, back the drag down, set the clicker, and the only thing that I can think happened Tommy was that every once in a while we'll get a hammer head that will, and I was using a piece of stingray for bait, which seems to predispose you to
[SPEAKER_02]: hammer heads and tigers more than any other bait.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the only thing I can think is that that fish just initially took off with it so hard that it actually backlashed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though the drag was backed off and the clicker was on, it went from slack to full with enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, your backlash didn't took it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was trying to grab too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what
[SPEAKER_02]: So, boy, and it was literally that was I had caught a fish on that rig yet and it's gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then you, a bunch that happens and you get that backlash.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing you can do except that balance.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can get to cut the line, that's all you can do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or it's going to drown you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just said, and we, and I'm guilty.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've gotten lazy and I've been walking away from rods.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there would be kids watching them.
[SPEAKER_02]: A kid comes running up to the house and says, Hey, rods, roll and mister.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I go down there, roll and stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's broke off, sand spike, no rod.
[SPEAKER_02]: No top-up of the sand spike, and it's just, you know, the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did parallels along that beach.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might cut that line and find that line.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that rod and it tells you to do it with the full rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I know the other rods are running and I'm out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's just been dark.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know these sharks are out here with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even have any other on this, but boy, I never found it broke my heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: So your PSA is well heated, it's good advice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope others unlike me are smart enough to follow it and set them right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't even turn around and make a sandwich.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't have to pound these things into the sand with the hammer.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you grab these sand spikes and just push down and rock back and forth, they'll go right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're pretty easy, and but it's well, and it's out undoubtedly besides the good design and being able to put a towel on and all the stuff like they're very well designed by like people who fish all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best of breed I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I might have survived, it's it's way stronger than a piece of PVC.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care who you are, right, it is it is a inherently strong device.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that gives me peace of mind where I want it to be if it's a failure.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of my creation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's never yes, don't ever yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for your time.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're a wealth and knowledge and a pleasure to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really appreciate you joining and we look forward to seeing you at ICRBE and thanks to all of you all for joining us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate you listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please remember to like and subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast content.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time right here on Grastery Rockville.
[SPEAKER_03]: You