[SPEAKER_01]: everybody, J.J. Cooper, Nick Bacoro, another of the baseball America Prospect podcast, Deep Dives, and today, as you can probably guess by Nick being our guest, we are talking all about the Arizona Diamondbacks, an organization that has had a very interesting, I would say 2020 so far, they've obviously made a world series run, they've had years where they're right in it, they've had other years where they're not, I will give them credit, like a lot of teams have trouble kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of running that tight rope of are we in it or not?
[SPEAKER_01]: The D-backs last year kind of bailed out of it a little bit with trades.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then as we've seen here kind of got some of those guys back.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we thought that Zach Galen got a qualifying offer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Would he be gone?
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's back on a one-year deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meryl Kelly, who they turned into a pretty nice prospect hall at the deadline last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's back the rotations kind of back together.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've made a trade for Nolan and it's kind of, again, as someone who kind of works on the D-backs 365 days a year, Nick, like, has it, it's been a kind of, I feel like a fascinating offseason from the outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: What has it been from, you know, as you cover it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, that thanks first of all for having me back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we all just kind of surprised at how they spent this off season, you know, they were giving indications at the end of the last year that they were going to be cutting payroll.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after this Zach Galen signing, they're suddenly like kind of pushing up against the luxury tax, which is is a pretty wild thing I've never had to seriously think about like how guys count against
[SPEAKER_00]: The luxury tax thresholds in my in my career covering this team, now I'm having to like kind of brush up a little bit on how it all works.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's it's been very surprising.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you look at like the clubhouse has Merrill Kelly and cold drink and Mitch Bratt and it worked out really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's quite like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Glybert Torres and our oldest Chapman, but there aren't too many examples of that sort of thing actually coming true.
[SPEAKER_00]: You hear all the time that I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I want to come back it rarely, rarely actually happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they're they're looking like they've got a shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of questions about this bullpen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, they're hoping to get AJ podcast and Justin Martinez back at some point during the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're hoping Corbin Burns comes in strengths and strengthens the rotation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: they're right there hoping to compete again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, competing like they do look very competitive.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is that it is the division with the Dodgers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So competitive is like always fighting against the reality of a team that is that basically goes into every office, and it says, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's the best free agent on the market?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, let's sign in for the time too.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, but again, that you're obviously competing for a playout spot, and this is an organization that looks like they're right in that, again, and that kind of does it like we have on here as the Scrawl kind of rolls by.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the guys that they picked up David Hackenman made their top five, so like it was, they got a pretty good haul.
[SPEAKER_01]: But number one is Ryan Walshmit, and Nick is kind of as you kind of line this up as we put this together.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that this was an organization where this was a very interesting kind of discussion.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you kind of come to Walshman at one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I guess I started thinking Ryan Walshman was sort of an easy call.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was going to get a lot of consensus based on just the season he had.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I started asking around and, and wound up getting a lot of different opinions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the first four guys, Waldschmitt, Cunningham, Krasantais, and Calblah, right there at the bottom of the screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all four of those guys got, you know, some of votes from, from people that I, that I talk to and, you know, both inside and outside the organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kicked it to a lot of people, you guys were all kicking it around too in the office.
[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of settled on walchmet, but I mean, I think we could have gone in a number of directions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Called well, you know, kind of got penalized, I guess, by the clubs of aggressiveness, whether that's fair or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was one of the youngest players in high A.
[SPEAKER_00]: at the time of his promotion from Visalia.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't fare that well there and that kind of cost him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Krasantase was penalized for, you know, you got to stay on the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to play and then it came down to Cunningham and Walshmit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And coming in, I haven't done anything yet, and Waldshmit just came away with the great season.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we kind of settled there, but like I'm not saying that we feel strongly about, you know, Waldshmit's career turning out significantly better than the other guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: we balance ceiling, risk, proximity, all these things kind of fit into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say that Walt Schmidt, like as I look at it, the thing that he stands out for him is you have kind of less risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of know that this guy is gonna be a big leager and
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, probably have a decent idea what is going to be as a big league or potentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say like proximity also plays in this too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when we look at these other guys, he is closer to the majors.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has kind of already cleared that double a hurdle.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are those kind of aspects.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say like, yeah, if you wanted to make the case that case in cutting him has more upside, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: with croissante is croissante's the best hit of this group, very possibly, but and they called well has maybe a little bit louder tools in Walshman at the end of the day, but Walshman, I was like, no, to kind of praise Walshman here, the number one prospect, it does feel like that he has that nice combination of, there is some athleticism here, but there's also some real hitting ability to go with it as well, is or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the under the hood stuff, especially.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you look at the stat line.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You dig a little bit deeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tiny chase rate.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tiny in zone with rate.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of the stuff that like, you know, port 10's big league success.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's doing it like from the jump at the beginning of his of his professional career.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, he's holding down, uh, I mean, he was apparently a pretty competent defender in center field.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think people are saying that they project him that way, but it does suggest that he's going to be a pretty good defender on a corner outfield.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just feels to me like, I don't know, the more I kind of looked at it like a floor of like a mark canna, you know, mark canna in his and his better seasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that kind of a corner out filter that really has an idea at the plate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really can put together good at bats is maybe going to run into 20, 30 home runs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: The questions that we got really revolved around the bat path.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pretty steep swing and it raised questions of, you know, he's heading into a league that has a lot of pictures that can dominate the top of those own with fastballs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, he pushes back on that and says, look, my strength is the bottom of the zone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to lock in on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and you know, you look at his chase rate.
[SPEAKER_00]: He makes really good swing decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows where his strengths are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And why should he, you know, have to start changing the pitches that he that he he's in on if he hasn't been, you know, if he's never struggled.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this hasn't been a problem from so far, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You think it could become one, but so far, he's he very much can say, I know what I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: This works for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would I change it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, that's a good case.
[SPEAKER_00]: He also says, and I, you know, for sure, if this is the case, that he's gotten a lot better on pitches at the top of his own from his sophomore year in college to where he is today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he thinks that there's, you know, he's shown an ability to
[SPEAKER_00]: proof in that area, he's not worried about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, look, at the end of the day, you look at all the pitches in a given day and the big leagues that are hit for home runs, thermostakes, you know, it's all about pitch selection and the hitters that swing at the right ones are usually the ones that are the most successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he seems out of a very good idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really simple swing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little like Paul Goldschmidt, just not a big stride, not a lot of movement, but he still generates a lot of torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can really see how it works and how it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't know, we'll see, I mean, a lot of evaluators, some that I trust, we're a little concerned about how steep it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll just see how you never really know until they get to the tickly to see how it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, you, again, it's one of those tough things about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The game teaches you lessons, but when the game hasn't taught you the lesson, it's really hard to say, oh, you need to absolutely change this aspect of you that, again, there's really work for him so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Time table-wise, you look at the D-backs and you look at this infield and you say, okay, it looks like it's pretty, pretty set.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at the outfield and you go, okay, obviously there's the Corbin Carol injury right now, but even taking that part out of it,
[SPEAKER_01]: and the goryl injury as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have a little bit more uncertainty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would not expect that he's in spring training as we talk right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would not expect to have any idea that he's going to really compete for a job coming out of spring training, it's like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But is it possible, is it realistic that we could be looking at a mid season arrival depending on how things go, both at the big league level and also with Walshman this year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they, I mean, they haven't even ruled out the idea that he, that he breaks camp with the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is in big league camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think probably they were, they were more open to that when they expected Gary L was going to miss significant time with this with this, you know, as he recovers from ACL surgery, he looks like nothing happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: So far here in the first week of campus, it's kind of been mind blowing, he just he looks terrific.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the idea that he's going to miss like the first two months of the season, it doesn't seem realistic anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but that said, like, you know, uh, Gerele, you know, wasn't a dominant hitter last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's getting a little bit older, you know, and he's coming off a major surgery.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see how the production plays out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Alec Thomas has not been a productive hitter in his big league career.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jordan Lawler is moving into an outfield role now.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's going to be a center of fielder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, you know, he hasn't hit yet in a hundred debates in the big league.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: There also isn't locked down designated hitter at the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's all kinds of opportunities for Ryan Welchman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would expect that we're going to see him in the big leagues this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: One way or the other, whether it's a prolonged runway, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't make his debut at some point this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that leads into, he's best mentioned Jordan Waller, Jordan Waller, so no longer prospect eligible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say this is one of the players that truly no longer prospect eligible, but very much still is in the, what are we gonna get out of Jordan Waller?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a premium prospect for years with him not being eligible.
[SPEAKER_01]: That obviously means when you look at how's the system better or worse than last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Takes away something here.
[SPEAKER_01]: because he was a top hundred prospect.
[SPEAKER_01]: But kind of, I mean, like, when you look at your organization as a whole, how do you see it kind of now compared to a year ago at this time?
[SPEAKER_00]: Better and worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly, they've added a lot of arms, they've
[SPEAKER_00]: They picked up a lot of a lot of pitching depth, especially at the deadline and then, you know, on through the off season, they traded blaze Alexander for Kate Stroud giving them another, another bullpound arm option.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, those guys that we just talked about, like I wouldn't be surprised if.
[SPEAKER_00]: if any of those four were to become impact big ligars, but I just don't think there as you can't confidently say it, the way that you could have projected a couple of years ago with Lollar on the kind of trajectory that he was on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll see how it plays out for Lollar.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only been 100 at bats.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems there are some questions about his approach of ability to handle right-handed spin.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, it's probably more about staying on the field.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see how that goes, but I do think that they have, it's a system that has a lot of players that
[SPEAKER_00]: Garner support from a handful of scouts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's that kind of group can like cycle around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing I'm not explaining that very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I follow you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think like there's not a lot of consensus, but like you can ask a couple of scouts and they'll love Hansel Luis and JD Dix.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, some people think, yeah, I think the James Groofer has a chance to be an everyday bat still.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you talk to another handful of scouts
[SPEAKER_00]: JD Dix doesn't have a position for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure where that goes, you know, it owns a Louis swings too much or, you know, Tommy Troy just doesn't have enough impact in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it's just like there's a lot of different opinions, but like there's a lot of guys that that evaluators, that some evaluators still give a chance to be everyday players.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's some truth to that too from a starting pitching standpoint in the system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to me, I look at and say it's a better system than last year overall, like Lawler obviously graduation and again, we don't like, we don't know right now what Lawler's going to be, but even taking him out of it, I do look at and say like, I could make a case for all the way up to David Hagman as like top hundred prospect cases in, you know, for all the baseball.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't make a case for three or four guys last year at this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like you said, you go beyond that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel it's a little deeper as far as guys who that what often I understandably hard for listeners for readers to understand is that like that mass of like, you know, we'd love to rank people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like you look at it, it's like okay, the difference between, I always like to say the difference between 75 and 125 is way less
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of times on these lists, you know, the top 100, but going beyond that, I feel like that the D-Bex have a lot more guys in that 150 to 350 or 450 in baseball range, which are guys who have some suspects at us, but also a reason to like them too, like you just kind of said, they're more of those guys this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and I guess we should mention I mean given credit for like a lot of things went well last year developmentally Tommy Troy put himself back on the map the the top three guys they took in the draft right well uh called well walchmet Daniel Egan all had very good seasons Hagman was a was a great you know kind of third piece in a trade at at the time and then arrives and suddenly has this curve ball they didn't know about and and
[SPEAKER_00]: looks like a, you know, mid rotation type of prospects.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they had a lot of things go right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I agree, it's in better shape, kind of, one to 30 that it was before, um, it just doesn't have that really, you know, elite talent that, you know, maybe they do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't, we can't identify it as easily at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not that one who's like that slam dunk, who's right there, right now, who's already checked all these boxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're guys who have more box to check.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Tommy Troy is a perfect example of me this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy Troy ranked number 10 at this time last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: You ranked number nine on the D-backs list this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you could say, oh, he's moved up one spot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like Tommy Troy right now is a much better prospect than where he looked like there's a lot fewer questions about him now than there were last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: The difference is last year he was number 10 and it was kind of like, well,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're keeping him alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not giving up yet, but we didn't feel a lot of conviction in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now he's nine and you're like, Oh, Tommy Troy's going to be a big leaguer.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just, you know, like, but these other guys have improved more to where he doesn't move up as much because of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's to me, like, and this kind of ties into the next question.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: We say who could be next year's number one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just take, let's assume that Walshmit does graduate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could make a pretty strong case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, case and cunning ham, we just said, Krasantay is called well.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these guys could be an even stronger number one prospect in what Walterman is now at this time next year, I feel like because cutting him is going into his first full-proseason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Krasantase is coming back from a serious injury.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, if you are a diamond backspan and you're listening to this, you're going, when we talk, you just said about you got to stay on the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shades of Jordan Lollard, Krasantes has had multiple injuries that have garrailed him in years and then called well is coming, you know, is coming off of a year where he got pushed pretty aggressively, but we saw the tools, you know, all that and you mentioned haggoman as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all guys I feel like like, but who would you say right now is most likely of that group to kind of emerge if mulch, mulch, mulch, and it graduates?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a, I don't have strong conviction in one or the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see it going any number ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess I'd lean cutting him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a little bit safer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, as far as cutting him to Cassantes, you feel a little bit better about bringing defensive value.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that it's a short stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see about that, but I do feel pretty confident that it's up the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cassantes, I think, has made some strides at second base, but I think people see it as more of a, yeah, he can hold it down, especially if he hits, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's going to be the carrying tool there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I'm more going off of what you guys have said how strongly you guys have felt about cutting him, you know, coming out of the draft and how aggressively you guys rank him.
[SPEAKER_00]: The feedback that I got, I had a few looks from people and it was a little more scattered.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did talk to a couple of people that absolutely were all in on the bat and that pro guys, you know, that they could tell from the time that, you know, Bridgely or wherever it was before he went to Vicellia, that they thought this kid was going to hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've always like Krasantes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think he just, he just hits.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: It, it just, it seems like he understands, you know, he just has, he has that terrific basketball.
[SPEAKER_00]: The angles seem to be really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he gets the most out of out of his power.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure it's quite an esach parades, Alex Breggman situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going that far, but he does seem like that kind of guy that can,
[SPEAKER_00]: hit for a little bit more power than you would, you know, you'd give him from, like, a raw, power perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he's, again, I would be shocked at all, like if we said that the Dmitry Krasalantees had a fully healthy season,
[SPEAKER_01]: a year from now, if you said, well, what could he be the number one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now it probably be a middle of the top hundred kind of guy because there are the defensive limitations that are always going to be, you know, he kind of fits in that to go with a Mariners but like, he could be a better version of Michael Arroyo who's kind of like reaching, you know, the upper level of the miners now, but has now moved to the outfield, like, Chrysanthais needs to be healthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say like ideally we're gonna hear like, oh, hey, by the way, he's that time, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: We really, you know, he really did a good job of kind of using that time off, you know, away from the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: And hey, defensively, his hands look better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that overall, yeah, it's something where there's just a lot to like as far as like hitting the most important thing you can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he does that very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: That called well, seems like he has a really good approach, really good idea of
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, has the speed and the ability to, you know, stick up the middle and center field, although the reviews I got weren't glowing on, I think he has some work to do out in center, but like, you know, there's, there does seem to be a pretty high floor there in terms of what he brings just with the approach the speed, the, you know, kind of bat to ball and, and,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just a, it's a pretty compact process, you know, like, and those guys don't tend to have super, you know, highs and lows necessarily at the plate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Hagman, like, I really wouldn't be surprised if he showed up during a couple miles an hour harder.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little further removed from surgery and, and, you know, puts together 100 and something innings of of, you know, really good work out of the starting rotation and we're starting to view him.
[SPEAKER_00]: a little more confidently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably going to be hard for him to pass all of those bats, just the way it works with the safety of hitters versus pitchers in these rankings, but I would be shocked.
[SPEAKER_01]: got to ask about there's another guy before we kind of go to the next question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to ask about he's not in the top 10, but you and I've had enjoyable, I would say enjoy talking about him because we like talk about prospects, we like thinking about prospects and all and so Drew Jones, who was you know, higher on this list last year, now he's kind of slid into the teens, he's 17th currently on the list.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I bring him out partly because he was the you know, a prominent first high first ground pick several years ago now, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you doing your reporting on this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you're a D-Bax fan hearing this, should it be time to kind of like, okay, he's not gonna be what we thought?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is there still something there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there what, where kind of his Drew Jones now is a prospect?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a little bit of both, probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me ask you, did you, I remember last year, you said you had gone through synergy and watched every Drew Jones bad at ball from 2024.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you do that with 2025?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I hesitate to say yes because it sounds like I'm a stalker, but I just have always found him interesting and so yes, I have done that again and by the way, it's not often, but you do see every now and then now.
[SPEAKER_01]: not much, but every now and then he is pulling the ball in the air with a little bit more authority than he has in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where I was going with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometime around late June, early July, things kind of changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he started, he started taking much more aggressive swings.
[SPEAKER_00]: He he kind of found a swing that that worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, look, I talk to a handful of people that are still, you know, just not in on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you do come across a couple of guys here and there that are like, ah, I saw that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looked a little different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on the phone actually with a
[SPEAKER_00]: with an evaluator with another organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was talking to him about this six week stretch that Jones put together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was unaware of it and started digging into it while we're talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: And watching some videos, he's like, whoa, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I'm moving about my preface right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm moving about like seven spots or something based off of, you know, our conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I think that doing it for six weeks in high A is a lot different than doing it for a full season.
[SPEAKER_00]: He still has to show that he can do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: he as the year went on too, he kind of reverted back into some old habits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get the feeling he maybe will strike out a few times one day and be like, okay, forget this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to put the bomb play today and it changes back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's still some comfort slash confidence that he needs to work through.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: the fact that he's shown it in a big league, or not big league, professional games, and that it's looks like it's supposed to look for stretches, gives me some more confidence that it's, you know, it's in there, you know, that it could come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we talking about a guy that's going to hit in the top half of a big league lineup and being impact that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's harder to see that
[SPEAKER_00]: Could we be talking about a guy that runs into 20 or so?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I may have said this last year too, like a guy that runs into 20 or so every year and plays a dominant center field and could get you to a three or four win player.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know that I'm betting on it, but I think it's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, like, to me, the thing about it is, is, and again, like, I've always been kind of a skeptic as far as Drew Jones bat, but like, when you look at the defense, when you look at the athleticism, and you look at all those kind of secondary skills and tools to go with everything, he doesn't have to do a whole lot offensively to be a productive and useful player.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just talking about this with the D-Bax Big League Club, where it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: There aren't many guys among this group that you're like, okay, other than Corbin Carroll, who's great, that you're like, okay, this guy's gonna provide real offensive impact and defensive impact.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Alex Thomas is a guy who's kind of stuck around for a while and really hasn't hit a whole lot, but there's athleticism, there's some defense, you know, there's things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Drew Jones is a better defender, I would say at the end of the day, like, could be a better defender.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I kind of look at him and say like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I struggle to see 20 homerons down the road like I think that like kind of what you talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see it little flashes of it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He really does struggle to keep everything connected in his swing.
[SPEAKER_01]: The lower half often has a mind of its own compared to like his his hips, his hands you know his hands are going one way and the lower about the lower half is not always going with him and that's why it makes it's I feel like so much more comfortable
[SPEAKER_01]: Oppo, where it's like, okay, my lower half's out front and now I'm going to trust my hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: He trusts his hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't always trust the lower half.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, okay, let's say that he's a batting six, seven, eight, then a line up playing really good defense and center field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Running the base is really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: All these things, it's like, that's still a pretty good path to being a useful player.
[SPEAKER_01]: where, okay, it's probably not the impactful guy that you're hoping when you draft him, you know, at the top of the first round, but it's also not a guy where you're like, oh, well, you know, there are first base types and I'll draft him for their bat at the top of the first round, where, you know, our outfield Jacob Berry with the Marlins a few years ago, where it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: You're drafting them for the bat, and then you go, oh, the bat's not there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you go, well, what else can he do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, not much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're drafting them for the bat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Drew Jones can do these other things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I think it does get kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I think that you don't want to give up on him by any stretch of the imagination too soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of ties into the next question, which is, obviously, that's one that you look at it and you say, okay, not ideal that a top of the first round pick we're now talking about him being useful, but not impactful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, if you look at the first round of that first round, there was a number of those guys at the top of that draft that kind of fit more into that category.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look at this organization as a whole, though, what have they been good at developing and what maybe are some things that they need to work on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, they've been good at finding their type of position player, and that's generally been the undersized athletic, often high school position players, you know, guys that that play up the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, have a lot of speed, have good approaches at the plate often, and they're often overlooked by a lot of the industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just not afraid to pull the trigger on guys like Corbin Carroll and Alec Thomas in case in cutting him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess you give them a claim to an extent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they drafted him, they didn't sign him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Dalton Varsho wasn't a high school guy, but was an undersized player that, you know, has those same, you know, short levers and a little more thump than you'd think.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other direction is pitching.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's been a struggle.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a big, big topic internally over the past or really the entire off season.
[SPEAKER_00]: They hired Jeremy Blyesh away from the pirates to be an assistant general manager and kind of oversee and maybe
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they've talked about, um, you know, changing the way that their strength and conditioning staff works and maybe trying to push players a little bit harder, um, they've had a tough time developing all kinds of pictures, but especially the kind that you kind of see in bulk with other organizations, those, those, those,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, relief arms that throw 95 to 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Diamondbacks just don't seem to generate very many of those types of pitchers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which of the very little like low-cost way to kind of fill out a bullpen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I said this before, I think it's kind of remarkable that they've been as quasi successful of an organization as they have been over, you know, the history of the franchise, despite, you know, having, I mean, it's hard to think back.
[SPEAKER_00]: on homegrown relievers that had had good careers that have, you know, that the dynamics have developed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just, they're just haven't been very many of them at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: They seem to always be having to go out and find answers externally for their bullpen, often having to rebuild it mid-season on the fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet they've been a pretty competitive organization for most of their existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, that's kind of crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they can get that side of things rolling, you know, that would help them in so many ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like I said, been a big focus and it sounds like they're changing a lot of things, a lot of changing the way they do a lot of things internally.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is crazy to think that Justin Martinez is probably one of the better success stories, you know, as far as homegrown relievers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, he's kind of a year where he was really well out here a year was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: They was years as hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's still, you know, kind of fits that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's going to wrap up the video portion of this of the deep dive.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're on the podcast feast, stick around, and we're going to talk more about sleepers right after this quick break.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Nick.
[SPEAKER_01]: going past the top 10. Who are some of the players?
[SPEAKER_01]: We said this is a deeper list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say especially if you look at 11 to 1819 on this list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Drew Jones as we said was 17.
[SPEAKER_01]: coming off of, I would say, and actually like, it's another year, it's not, but he slid down in part because this system has gotten deeper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lou James Groover has shown flashes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He slid down, I think, in part because this system has gotten deeper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are some of the guys who stand outside of the top 10 to you that you kind of are very intrigued by?
[SPEAKER_00]: I got some really good feedback on Carlos Verahonda.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have him at 19.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a catcher who reached Vicellia last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this isn't a draft player.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was an international player out of Venezuela, but he does have the same sort of stocky build short levers that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fines, the apps, it's a diamond backsetter.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a strong arm, he's a scene as a good defender, you know, people talk about him as a, as a, you know, a kid that has a chance to be a leader behind the plate handles a staff.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's there's some people internally that like Ivan Luciano still as as the better catcher, but most people seem to have kind of shifted to your on to going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that that's probably the first name.
[SPEAKER_00]: that jumps out to me, you know, and then further down the list, there's a couple of arms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Mason Mariat had a really interesting kind of pop at the beginning of last season before he heard his elbow and wound up getting Tommy John, I'm sure he'll be back at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Midway through this season, he's an interesting arm.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Jay Tuan Kelly and Dean Livingston are a couple of pitchers further down that I'm curious to see how how it goes with them and part because what we just talked about, you know, how they do with these teenage pitching prospects if they can, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Kelly took a step forward that way, like last year, which was very encouraging, like if you were, we wouldn't have been talking about him at this time, a year ago, because it was like, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he's a soft-tosser.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he took a four mile hour jump to where you no longer have to throw the soft-tosser title on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't, he did not come up in my reporting last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: He made huge strides from year over year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's a big physical kid, you know, we haven't listed it six, three, two, fifty, seven, you know, it's a guy that looks like he can, he can eat up a bunch of innings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Livingston, you know, he was there, where was he third round pick, fourth round pick out of Georgia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I'm interested to see how this goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do not spend very much draft capital on high school pitching.
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't since my case and got here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this guy feels like a really good test subject for, you know, whether they can, they can cook the sort of mid-rotation potential out of him that that seems to be in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: one other all bring up that i'm just kind of intrigued because you mentioned about the death of of relievers that they've developed i mean i know that i think the plan initially brine curly is to kind of see you know maybe they may want to see if he starts i kind of envision at the end of the day that he's most likely uh the i think he was there uh you know he was
[SPEAKER_01]: third rounder, but under slot that they took from Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen him touch a hundred in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: Short, right hander kind of with that fastball that can live at the top of the zone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of could see him if everything breaks right as reliever being kind of one of those guys that fits that category of, you know, you kind of, they're never going to be probably even a closer, but useful to have a number of those guys who can come in and give you, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: again, 100 is still 100.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that more guys do it, but if you can live in those upper 90s, that gives you the the chance to make everything else play up as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's another one to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the position player side, you mentioned, there are a couple guys who are a little higher up, but you mentioned Luis, you mentioned Grover kind of earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that those are two that's worth as early as asking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause like, if you said outside of the top 10, we already mentioned Drew Jones, position player wise, like who are guys who clawed if everything breaks right be big league contributors or regulars.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that those guys still kind of fit in that, but they have kind of those, you talked about it earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like with Luis, kind of the question is, is okay, he's kind of, he's moving down the defensive spectrum.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question kind of a lot of it is, is how far down is he gonna move, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like is that kind of the, like, what kind of where does he know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that, yeah, there has been some talk about Senator Field with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't seem as though it's gonna be shortstop anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's a hard one for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like he's a hard one for a lot of evaluators too.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to give him
[SPEAKER_00]: credit for hitting, I mean, he hit 300 in Hillsborough last year, but when you start looking under the hood and you see a 34% chase rate of a high swing rate, he's very aggressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just tends that sort of thing tends to get exploited as you move up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot of
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mentioned earlier just in passing and I, I feel like we should come back to him rather than my one throw away a comment being all that we say about JD Dix.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that probably that's another guy from last year's draft that that showed very well in his debut and read the, you know, the 24 draft I guess it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot of people that think this is a very hittersch guy, you know, smooth swing from both sides of the plate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good field barrel at the ball of a frame that can add significant strength, you know, there are questions about the defense, you know, he he had a shoulder thing, I think his was it was it had leading into his spring of his of the senior year.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the throw from shortstop is probably too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably a second basement only.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although people do talk about him as a as a potential center fielder as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: They got a lot of those guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really enjoy the talk to right 100% I was just going to say that it's it's very it's very funny just that they were, you know, they were talking about trading a second basement.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, very prominently in the off season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wondered if, you know, just the number of guys that kind of projected at that position going forward, including percentage, you know, was was a factor in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I guess like I'm thinking back to a question from long ago, I wouldn't be that shocked if JD Dix worked his way into the number one prospect conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bit of a darker horse, but but I do think that the reviews that I got on on him and the conviction that the industry seems to have in his back is worth mentioning.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about the D-backs and their proclivity for shorter, levered hitters.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also the amazing D-backs thing, which I don't think they're choosing for, but Dix also has had a shoulder injury, which you're going to be a prominent D-backs prospect having a shoulder injury seemed to be also a position player, kind of a key part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Corbin Carol obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five Jones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Corbin Carol, Drew Jones, Jordan Lawler, Chris Santace, and Dix.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is really crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and often I think it's the, for most of them, it's not the throwing shoulder.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the, it's the other shoulder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dixit was the, it was his throwing shoulder.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, it's a bizarre thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to explain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You also said Troy, like Troy did I have shoulder and Troy had hamstring injury, groin injuries in 24.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw better from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He reached triple A still question is not defensively, you know, like, but it did seem like moving him predominantly a second, helped the bat play better probably as well because like, it just was asking less of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't mean to ask to do something that he really just at the end of the day was too stressed to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: How like, I feel like it's probably more role-player than like everyday regular, but
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an improvement for where we were talking about this time last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: How much did he kind of recharge himself to kind of putting himself into the long-term conversation for the big league?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a really big year for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned the injuries in 2024.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was one of those things where he heard himself late in spring training really didn't want to start the year on the injured list, kind of forced himself to, you know, sped himself up to be ready to go out to Hillsborough to start the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things went very poorly.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wound up going on the injured list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Any wound up?
[SPEAKER_00]: really pressing and and trying to make up for for bad numbers, you know, and trying to get them back to where they need to be and that usually doesn't end well you hear that all the time and I can't go eight for four.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and it felt like just kind of a fresh start for him was was really big last year and it was it was a really good performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a lot of scouts at least I feel like at least three guys that, you know, the first two years of his professional career were telling me I don't see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just I don't see how that I don't see a path for this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: come back to me after last season and say, I was wrong about Tommy Troy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel a lot better about what he can what he can be going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's probably a little bit more of a
[SPEAKER_00]: move all over the field type of part-time bat mostly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also had some people say they don't think that he's that far away from unlocking a thing or two here in terms of the way that he drives the ball.
[SPEAKER_00]: to being, you know, the kind of hitter that that profiles is in every day guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It, again, just another one of those guys that like, you have a segment of the industry that's like, I can really see it happening here and then other people are like, uh, probably more of a utility.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, we'll see how it goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just not a ton of consensus, I would say, up and down in this organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting organization.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be really an interesting 2026 as you just laid out.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of guys who we're want to see some guys come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see some guys get their first full season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some guys will be knocking on the door of the major leagues.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be covering obviously, you know, nickel be covering it for theirs in a public and we'll be covering it at Baseball America.com as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining us on another of the Baseball America.
[SPEAKER_01]: Deep Dines, we are
[SPEAKER_01]: We're rounding third on these.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not, you know, we, we still have a few to go, but we will have these all done by I think the second week is spring training games.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're almost there for games, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have we have college games out when what is the feedbacks first spring training in two days from now on it's on Friday and I want to say as as someone who's starting to think about his is dynasty draft coming up is these are very helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: trying to reflect as we, you know, again, we're, the crazy thing about it is is how much it's great now the spring training's back and we get real actual news, unfortunately right now so much of it being like so and so is hurt and we will not be back until whatever or, you know, the Pablo Lopez news unfortunately that we heard yesterday and things like that all around the game, but it is, it is great to have baseball back.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, our long cold off season is nearing
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you again for the download for Nick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm JJ, so long everybody.