[SPEAKER_01]: Om Sahanavavetu Sahanav Banaktu Sahabir Yankaravavai Tejas Vinavadhi Tamas Tumavit Bishavahai Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
[SPEAKER_04]: So we are studying the punch of the sheep.
[SPEAKER_04]: The fundamental idea of Advaita Vedanta is that we are the absolute.
[SPEAKER_04]: You and I and everybody else, we are infinite existence consciousness bliss.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't seem like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We think that we are this limited creature, this body and mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Vedanta wants to show us that when we are mistaken, we are not this body and mind, we are actually one with God.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our true nature is existence consciousness, please.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what Vedanta wants to show us.
[SPEAKER_04]: not just tell us theoretically philosophically, but actually demonstrate to us that it's a living truth.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what would be the purpose of such an exercise?
[SPEAKER_04]: This gives us motion, freedom, freedom from suffering, attainment of bliss, and freedom from suffering.
[SPEAKER_04]: Aptyantika du Kanivritti paraman and the practice, chain Sanskrit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, in this particular chapter, which we are doing now, the method of the five sheets, punch a kosher,
[SPEAKER_04]: Here, the approach is, where is this parameter?
[SPEAKER_04]: The real i, where is it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, obviously it's here.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what we call here.
[SPEAKER_04]: This body-mind system is described in this chapter as a cave, a cave with five layers.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the idea is that none of the five layers of this cave each of these layers will be has been clearly pointed out as the food sheet, settler then that inward to that vital sheet, settler then that inward to that mind sheet, settler then that inward to that intellect sheet and settler, settler stuff all and most inward the bliss sheet, it has been pointed out this system,
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not the real eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what we mistake to be myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You and I, we think we are this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this chapter is telling us, this is a cave in which we dwell.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are different from each of the five levels of this cave.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are not the body, not the vital forces, not the mind, not the intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not even the bliss so called bliss sheet beyond the intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's the first thing which was just shown to us.
[SPEAKER_04]: What we saw, a subtle now was this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are you in what sense are you not the physical body?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why am I not the life force is coursing through this body?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why am I not the mind or the intellect that was shown to us?
[SPEAKER_04]: Understand it and then see it as a fact.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not even a combination of all of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you want to say that separately, I may not be this, but a combination of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just as I said, if I say that, I am not this scarf.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am not the shirt.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not the vest.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not the duty.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if somebody were to say, yeah, but you are the combination of all of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not the combination of all of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not any one of any article of clothing, nor am I the combination.
[SPEAKER_04]: The body is something different from the clothes it's wear.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's an example.
[SPEAKER_04]: The real eye is none of these sheets.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why it's called a sheet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kosha and Sanskrit means the sheet.
[SPEAKER_04]: The sheet is something that covers.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: The second thing they want to say is, then where is the real eye, where are you, if you are not any of the five components of this cave system, where are you, you are in that cave, you dwell in that cave, you are different, first point, you are different from the cave, you are not the cave itself, you are the indueller, you dwell there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now here comes the big difficulty with adwaita vedanta, the real, real difficulty.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very simple, if you get it, if you don't get it, it can take a long time to get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's actually extraordinarily simple.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you here?
[SPEAKER_04]: You are dwelling here as the experience of these five sheets.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not one more thing, not one more part of the cave.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our tendency is, here is one part of the cave.
[SPEAKER_04]: The body, here is another part of the vital force.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here are the thoughts and ideas in the personality, the intellect, something beyond the intellect, the bliss sheet.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I expect my tendency is that there is something other than this, something.
[SPEAKER_04]: something beyond this, which is the earthen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sridamakrishna says that, you know, that book, the sayings of Sridamakrishna, the first saying, if you know yourself, you will know God.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're very first saying, what a strange thing to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: We will say, I know myself, so do I know God?
[SPEAKER_04]: I would like to say that, yeah, I'm God, but it's not true.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Ramakrishna, what he means is that what you know yourself to be is wrong, he says the thing is, who are you if you investigate into the eye, then which one is the eye?
[SPEAKER_04]: He says there, is it the physical body, is it the flesh or the blood or the mind or the breath or what is it which is the eye, the more you investigate you, the next sentence is very interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, as you investigate, it's like peeling an onion.
[SPEAKER_04]: the skin keeps coming out, where you don't get to any core of the onion.
[SPEAKER_04]: And finally, you see, he makes a startling statement.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, there is no such thing as the eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll repeat that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no such thing as the eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: That might be a bit shocking for us because we are used to, very casually, we say, yes, yes, I know, I am Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, Saddamakrishna will say that you are not the body in mind, but you are Brahman or Aratman.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he doesn't say that.
[SPEAKER_04]: First he gives you a shocker.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, first we see that there is no such thing or the eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: The important word there is thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: The eye is not a thing like this, the real eye, eye is not a thing like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then what is it, then what is it,
[SPEAKER_04]: The real difficulty with Advaita is all that we are experience to experience seeing are things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gross things out here in the world, what we see in touch and taste, and smell, and here gross, sound and sight and smell and taste and for subtle insight, thoughts, memories, desires,
[SPEAKER_04]: But there are also objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: The certain things are also objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean they are objects?
[SPEAKER_04]: They are not objects like this book is an object or this scarf is an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they are definitely an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Definition of an object is what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything that you are aware of is an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: That which is aware is the subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: In common sense, in our day-to-day language, we take the subject to begin with this skin.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything deeper than this skin is a subject, it's me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you apply the definition, it doesn't work that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: The skin is also something that you are aware of, so it's an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not the subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: The mind also is an object because you're aware of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you look in what's you'll be aware of the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: So these are objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now the question arises is that other than the objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you say there is no such thing as the Ahtman as the I, our immediate, because we are used to seeing objects, our immediate reaction is then the Ahtman doesn't exist, then there is no such thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: We come to the immediate conclusion, there is no such thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we say that suppose you say is Mr. X in the room and you look around and you say no Mr. X is not in the room.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because Mr. X is an object which you looked for if you cannot see the object then you say it is not there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that is how we deal with all of life in our experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you cannot experience it, it is not there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But underneath that, unsaid is an assumption that it should be an experienceable object.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's true, this principle works for everything, starting from Central Park out there, which is a really, really big object.
[SPEAKER_04]: to the tiniest of particles which they are looking for in the certain engineer, but those are very, very subtle object, very tiny, but physical, actually not subtle, even by Vedantic standards, they are also gross, they are tiny, tiny objects extraordinarily difficult to find out, but they are still objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you cannot find it, you can say it is not there, but there is only one thing which does not satisfy this criterion, that is what
[SPEAKER_04]: What is that thing?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing, it's sort of Rick.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing very far away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Another thing, extraordinarily.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are not an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, somebody should say, but Swami, you are an object to me and I am an object to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: The body may be an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I'm a telepath, I can maybe see your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have actually met people who are, I mean at least two, three people, I've met, did three, four, five people I've met.
[SPEAKER_04]: Four of them monks and one was not a monk but a psychic, very powerful man.
[SPEAKER_04]: They could actually see inside your thought.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I actually asked this person.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, how much of what you show is magic tricks and how much of it is a real power.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he laughed and he told me, I'll never tell you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then I said, okay, I have a person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just don't have curiosity.
[SPEAKER_04]: simple experiment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right now tell me what I am thinking and immediately told me.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, now my thoughts are an object to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: My thoughts are an object to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I myself, you yourself, the awareness there is not an object to anybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness, awareness is not an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's ever the subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what makes it difficult.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our tendency is to look for an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: When we don't find it, like with all objects, we don't find it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We say does not exist.
[SPEAKER_04]: What happened to the 10th man?
[SPEAKER_04]: Does not exist.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drowned.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't see him.
[SPEAKER_04]: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where is the 10th one?
[SPEAKER_04]: Not there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drowned.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I was looking for an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: So only the wise man, the Vedant is two turns.
[SPEAKER_04]: My hand around and says 10.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an entirely different ballgame there, it's not out there, it's the here, it's not even here, it's behind that also, it's you yourself, it's I myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we come to the, this verse.
[SPEAKER_04]: Usually when the method of the five sheets is taught, they will tell you that you are not the physical sheet, the vital sheet, the mental sheet, the intellect sheet, the bliss sheet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Beyond that you are the Atman and leave it like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we take it that, okay, there is something very subtle beyond the bridge sheet, which is the atmosphere which I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: One day after lots and lots of meditation, I'll discover it probably, maybe let me meditate for 30 years or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like Tothapuri said, what took me 30 years, 30 years, 40 years, 30 years, there's meditation, this man Ramakrishna, he achieved three days, what's incredible.
[SPEAKER_04]: So maybe 30 years or 30 lives for us, we'll discover.
[SPEAKER_04]: We never give it any further thought.
[SPEAKER_04]: What this author has done is, with the Aranya, he has finished with the discrimination of the five sheets in just ten verses, very quickly has finished it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The rest of the chapter is a very subtle probing on this one point, the real actman, again and again in a very subtle way, can make it uncomfortable sometimes, you know, he probes deeper and deeper and clarifies our problems.
[SPEAKER_04]: not 17, sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: 13th verse in the 11th verse, the student asked, starting from the body, subtler and subtler and up to the bliss sheet, okay, I understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have been teaching me, I sort of get it, I am not all of these.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then other than the five, there is nothing else.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, is there no argument?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there no self at all?
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember, as we go deeper in Vedanta, one actually comes to this stage at one time or the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: This stage of nothingness.
[SPEAKER_04]: A very deep void, a spiritual void.
[SPEAKER_04]: We will come to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you seriously follow it up, you will come to a point where it seems to be nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: What am I?
[SPEAKER_04]: I am nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: At that point, a nothingness, a great silence.
[SPEAKER_04]: At that point, what you should do is, at that point, you should say, who or what is the witness of this nothingness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me complete Sri Ramakrishna's teaching.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said, as you peeled on you and said, you find that there is no such thing as an eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: If he stopped there, it would be Buddhism.
[SPEAKER_04]: what remains that remains, hyphen consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Meaning thereby, he could have said, when you feel of these skins of the onion, when you go deeper and deeper, finally you will come to consciousness, he did not say that.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said, what am I?
[SPEAKER_04]: None of these, when you find there is no such thing as an eye, then what remains is consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did he put it that way?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you understand now?
[SPEAKER_04]: If you had said, and none of these, and I am consciousness, then we would still have this thing in our mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a thing called consciousness that to look for.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you deny that there is no thing called consciousness, you will see there is nothing there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We oscillate between thing and nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I say sometimes that the Atman is not a thing, it is not nothing, it is no thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That does not make it any less real.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, it is the most real of all things.
[SPEAKER_04]: The existence of all things in your life depends upon you, dear awareness.
[SPEAKER_04]: I won't even say, you are awareness, you are the awareness.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, dear awareness, do not depend on anything for your existence.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your existence is intrinsic to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: SUTT!
[SPEAKER_04]: Your light, your consciousness is intrinsic to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Chit!
[SPEAKER_04]: Your honor in the bliss is intrinsic to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Honor in the!
[SPEAKER_04]: Doesn't depend on anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: you lend the existence to everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see that later.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have not come to that yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your consciousness lights up the universe.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you say no, no, no, no, it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why there are dark corners in that room.
[SPEAKER_04]: It might consciousness is not lighting up that door.
[SPEAKER_04]: What I'm saying is whatever you experience is lit up by your consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a daughter logic.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not even something that has to be proved.
[SPEAKER_04]: If there's a well lit place here and there's a dark corner here, both are revealed to what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do your consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: And every bliss that we seek outside, be beg for bliss from the world outside.
[SPEAKER_04]: All of that, if we ever get it from the world, that your own bliss with the world is giving back to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: In this guys, as if it's doing you a great favor.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's yours.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: The answer came, that's why the story of the 10th person is so instructive.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the answer comes the 12th verse.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are what are experienced, and you're also right, nothing other than these is experienced.
[SPEAKER_04]: But who can deny the experience?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is very subtly phrased, look I am stressing this again and again, I am not saying that he did not say these five are experienced but you are not yet a good yogi, you will go deeper, you will be able to experience the Atman.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, he said you are right only these five are experienced and there is nothing more to experience as an object, but what experience is these five?
[SPEAKER_04]: That how can you deny?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you are experiencing it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, we shall explore just this point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a question?
[SPEAKER_04]: I do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if you have a better confusion.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: That anything you are aware of is an object.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: And throughout all these weeks, we have looked that you are, I mean, the self is really something that you are aware of.
[SPEAKER_09]: you know it is because that that really is it's not the five sheets etc.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: But at the same time you are aware that there is something I agree that there is the reflective consciousness to the house.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I think I know where you're going.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you hold that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen to the next words and you will see it's directly deals with what you are saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll find it again and again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Many of the questions which come to you will
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me just do this verse, you will see, because we are not moving away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, for quite some time, there is only one subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, the real you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It will just dwell there and probe around and expose our, our little errors and conclusions, which hide the real you from you from yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: 13th verse.
[SPEAKER_04]: Swayam iwanubhutitwad Swayam iwanubhutitwad Vidyati naanubhabyatav Vidyati naanubhabyatav Ghatrik janantarabhavad Ghatrik janantarabhavad
[SPEAKER_04]: time could do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: As the self is itself of the nature of experience only, it cannot be an object of experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Since there is no experience of not any experience rather than the self is unknowable, not because it does not exist, but because it cannot be an object of
[SPEAKER_04]: Vivekananda in London, speaking about the self, the Atman, hence, because Atman is not an object of experience, it is beyond no ability.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then he says, but you, none of you must not go away from here thinking that it is unknown.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brahman or Atman is unknown.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is more than known.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is the one which is known first and then everything else is known.
[SPEAKER_04]: What you are saying is it is continuously known, but not as an object of knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what we will see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now here you start with this word in the second sentence, let's start from the second line, again it is not noable, it is not noable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is it not noable?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, no, no bhav biata, there is no noability in that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything is no able, if there is a form, it's no able with your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: If it's a sound, it's no able with your ears.
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course your mind, if it's a concept, you can learn it and you can know it through your intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: But none of them can make consciousness its object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness itself, being beyond the senses and the mind and the intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Beyond means, rather, behind them, lighting them up, that itself cannot become the object for any of these.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of the intellect or the mind or the memory, or the five senses, none of them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, okay, see, everything is actually ultimately known by the consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Think about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are looking at this book.
[SPEAKER_04]: In a very primacy way, you will say that it is being known by my eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I look at it by my eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But your eyes are transmitting this information to your brain and from your brain to your mind in some way.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in your mind, a thought comes about this book, a cognition, in Sanskrit called Vritti.
[SPEAKER_04]: book, a car of rity, a cognition in the form of the book, arises in the lake of your mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's lit up by the reflected consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember our terms reflected consciousness, Jira Abhasa, the consciousness reflected in the mind lights up that cognition about the book.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you get the knowledge, here is a book.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ultimately, it's consciousness, through the reflected consciousness, it's consciousness which knows anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see the book could be here, my eye is could be here, my brain could be functioning, my mind could come up with this thought about the book, but suppose there is no consciousness at all, then there will be no knowledge, no experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the difference is like somebody rings the bell and you go and open the door.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a conscious experience, you hear the bell, you go and touch the door, you exert yourself and pull the door, and you see the person outside, whole thing is the first person, subjective, living, multicolored experience, multimedia experience, sound, sights and everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: The same thing could be done by a simple sensor in the door.
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody comes and the sensor will swing the door open.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see it in the airport all the time, you see it in the shops and other places, a sensor which opens the door.
[SPEAKER_04]: that sensor does not have the first person multi-media experience which you are having because that sensor can do everything that you are doing but it cannot have that experience because there is no consciousness behind it.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no reflected consciousness, the mechanism is not there.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't have to go further.
[SPEAKER_04]: You could have a mind also.
[SPEAKER_04]: If the consciousness is not there behind the mind, even the thought in the mind will not be a conscious experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, why is it not possible to make the, make the Atman an object of consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, it says, Ghatri Ganantarabhaavad.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no other consciousness to experience consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: It cannot become an object, immediately somebody will say, why?
[SPEAKER_04]: My consciousness can experience your consciousness, at least in principle, there is no
[SPEAKER_04]: There is only one light behind all of us.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can say my mind and my body and my eyes, but consciousness is the one which is saying mine from behind.
[SPEAKER_04]: There it is, here it is saying my body and mine, there it is saying my body and mine, there it is saying my body and mine, say I am consciousness, there is no second consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Follow this even more subtly, look at your own experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: In your own experience, right now,
[SPEAKER_04]: Whatever you experience in the world, is there any other consciousness apart from yours?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a subtle question.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have a question, ask it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The immediate question should be by.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are so many consciousnesses here, but there are so many bodies here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So many minds here.
[SPEAKER_04]: How will you distinguish your consciousness from that consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: In your experience, in your life right now, right now, the life you are leading, right now the experience you are having, there is only one consciousness you, which is lighting up what you call your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no second consciousness there which will make you the consciousness and object.
[SPEAKER_04]: object of knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, the consciousness are making everything an object of knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: See, you, the consciousness are using your mind and eyes and looking at me.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, the consciousness, you are using your mind and ears and listening to my words.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're making my farm and my words and object of your knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're making your own mind and object of your knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that consciousness behind your mind, which other consciousness is there which will make that an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: In your experience, there is only one consciousness, and you are that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you following?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you, yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: So if there is only one consciousness, yes, that's shared by everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: or you can put it the other way around.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's one consciousness which shares everybody.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_11]: Then if I am that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_11]: Why do I not simultaneously experience everybody's mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody's mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the question people can ask.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you can just see where you are asking this question.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are asking this question, standing in your own mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just as I look into my own mind, how are you looking into your own mind, that consciousness, using your mind, is introspecting into your own mind, finding out the contents of your mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's doing the same thing in everybody's mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just that you, the person, I am this person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, how I can I not see the into the minds of all other persons.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're asking this question as a person, not as pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, that is a subtle point, it is very difficult, but it is also very simple.
[SPEAKER_04]: You must learn to distinguish between the intellect here, which is asking the question, and the consciousness behind that intellect, they are very, very tightly wound up together.
[SPEAKER_04]: They are very close.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is like, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you
[SPEAKER_04]: this book and the light on this book.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just covering all of the book, but the light is different and the book is different.
[SPEAKER_04]: Similarly, your intellect is shining in consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: It reveals you, the person in that intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it reveals him, the person in that intellect and heard the person in that intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you say, I'm repeating again, when you say, why can I not know the contents of other people's minds?
[SPEAKER_04]: Directly, as I know the contents of my mind, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You are asking the question here.
[SPEAKER_11]: Why is my mind not trading now?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as the contents of my mind are revealed to my consciousness, this thing you are asking, you're asking is a person.
[SPEAKER_04]: Already taking into account your intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you just consider not in your experience, because experience is always here.
[SPEAKER_04]: So just consider logically.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is consciousness directly revealing the contents of his mind and hurt mind and hurt mind and mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it revealing right now?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what we're on this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, man, has the consciousness like the great swanries?
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope you come enlightened.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the same have they permanently
[SPEAKER_03]: of the collective consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it in consciousness or in the mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ignorance is in the mind and enlightenment also is in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there in their mind knowledge came and removed the ignorance.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what we are trying to do in our minds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness remains completely untouched by ignorance and enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness is atma.
[SPEAKER_04]: Bramma is what it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what you are saying is have the permanently enriched our collective consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now collective consciousness here, see, this is the problem with English.
[SPEAKER_04]: In what we call collective consciousness in Vedanta would be called the Samashtymana, the cosmic mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: with their wisdom, have they enrich the cosmic mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, they have, certainly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they've uplifted the cosmic mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: But consciousness has such remains untouched, because the word consciousness is used very ambiguously because we do not distinguish normally between consciousness and the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mind and consciousness are taken together in our modern approach.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even when you say modern consciousness, I was just going to say that.
[SPEAKER_04]: From Vedantic point of view, there is no modern consciousness, there is no ancient consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it is a way of writing what you are referring to as a modern consciousness, social consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Political consciousness, these are all in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness plus mind, let us go a little more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes?
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, you're making a distinction between knowing and illumination, correct.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness just is and shines.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once it gets reflected in the intellect, then the intellect becomes a noir.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness by itself is not a noir.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just is and shines.
[SPEAKER_04]: According to Vedanta, consciousness is everywhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not a noor when it is a table or a chair.
[SPEAKER_04]: It becomes a noor when it shines in your intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's your intellect which functions as a noor.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even your liver and your lung did not function as noors.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's only your mind that functions as a noor, bind and intellect, right now just see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Always match to your experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is it in this body-mind system, which one is the noor?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is the thumbar noor?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is the nose or noor?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yes, partly so.
[SPEAKER_04]: But really speaking, what's the noor?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is the mind the knower because it is the mind eluminant by consciousness which becomes a knower.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the difference between illumination and knowing in Sanskrit, the difference between sakshi and gata, sakshi, witness consciousness, the illumining consciousness, gata the knowing consciousness, knowing consciousness means consciousness plus intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: It functions as a knower.
[SPEAKER_07]: So, reflect their consciousness will be done.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness reflected in the intellect becomes the knower.
[SPEAKER_04]: Actually, it is ultimately, you have to say absolutely speaking, it is the original consciousness, the pure consciousness which is the knower, but because without it nothing would be there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But practically speaking, it is the reflected consciousness in our minds which is the knower, which you see all of us, what we always connected to, you are living experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel aware?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where?
[SPEAKER_04]: in the mind, that awareness in the mind, in the mind, it is the thinker, in the intellect, it is the one which understands, through the eyes, it is the seer, through the years, it is the hearer, through the tongue, it is the tasteer, that consciousness, and that is the reflected consciousness, it is, I come to you, it is like at night the moonlight illuminates.
[SPEAKER_04]: our world at night.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we all know, there is no such thing as moonlight.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is just a way of explaining how sunlight bounces of the moon reflected on the moon and shines upon our world.
[SPEAKER_04]: But practically speaking, it is not wrong to say everything is flooded with moonlight, everything is illumined with moonlight.
[SPEAKER_04]: Practically, the moon is playing a role, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: experience of ah very good experience of bliss will also be in the mind, bliss itself is beyond the mind, bliss itself is ananda, when it is reflected in the mind you experience a joy.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, what is enlightenment knowing that you are such ananda, realizing that
[SPEAKER_04]: Right now, what is ignorance?
[SPEAKER_04]: Thinking and these five, I am this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: So every problem of this one is my problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I realize, beyond these five, the one existence consciousness place, the tenth map, I am, that is enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Actually, realizing that, that's enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Enlightenment about what?
[SPEAKER_04]: About our state, where about that, which is absolutely free, free of what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Free of the bondages of the mind and body.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our ignorance is in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: This book is not worried about enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: chair is not worried about enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: You and I are worried about enlightenment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because ignorance is there in the mind and it has to be overcome by knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Suffering is there in the mind and it has to be overcome by enlightenment by realization.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are beings who enjoy and suffer.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are seeking completion, meaning, bliss and happiness.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is all because of the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: That does not make it any less real.
[SPEAKER_04]: The whole quest.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's as real is anything in this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the most important thing in this world.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_10]: So, the chair is an engine in such an vehicle.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't have equipment like my input or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: What distinguishes chair and table and the fan and the light from you and me tell me now in Vedanta you should be able to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do we have this reflected consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why doesn't it have a reflected consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because we have this mind intellect, the subtle body, Sukshmashareda, it does not have a subtle body.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's only, what is it?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's only this thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jama.
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, it's not a claim, the theoretical claim.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because look at look inside.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are two sides to you, to each of us.
[SPEAKER_04]: One is the side, the physical body, which a doctor can see and examine.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other one is inside you, the first person private, the person inside, which only you or I experienced directly, through consciousness directly we experienced it, that's the subtle body, that's this thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: As far as the gross body is concerned, this is a gross body is also gross body, if the subtle body goes out of this gross body, it's a dead body, this is also dead body.
[SPEAKER_04]: always distinguish between reflected consciousness and suchi dhananda.
[SPEAKER_04]: The original suchi dhananda is everywhere, but that does not make it conscious.
[SPEAKER_04]: It requires a mind to become conscious.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it will not, it's a physical body.
[SPEAKER_04]: It comes together and gets destroyed.
[SPEAKER_04]: What goes to the process of evolution?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's you, the subtle body, the givathma, which goes from body to body to body, and those bodies evolve over millions of billions, millions of years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Should we go ahead?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we on just projections of the consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's we are going one step further.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yes, according to Vedanta, yes, all of these things are appearances in consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we have not gone so far yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember there are two steps, I have told many times, I have to wait for two steps.
[SPEAKER_04]: One is separate yourself from the body mind complex and see that you are Satyadananda.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then see the entire universe including body mind complex and everything as appearances in Satyadananda.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do you do that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Adwaita means non-dual.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you separate yourself from the body mind, right now we have a duality of plurality, you and I are separate and you are separate from the chair you are sitting in, the chair is separate from the ground it is sitting on, there is a world of plurality, different things.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you take this step further and not the body, not the mind, I am the witness consciousness, still its plurality.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you with me?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's still plurality.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you have witnessed consciousness and many, many other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: But when you take that final step that everything is an appearance in that consciousness, it has no existence apart from that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you cannot say there are, there is more than one thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the consciousness alone which appears as so many things.
[SPEAKER_04]: then how many things are there?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is consciousness only.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what about all these things?
[SPEAKER_04]: They are nothing other than consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: They are appearances in consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: For example, good example is the dream.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you are I dream, we see buildings and people and dogs and trees and people.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so many, many, many other people.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, if I ask you to count how many things are there, you will see, oh, there is there are these trees and there's a building and there's the people and there's me and there's a little dog there and the sky and the clouds, thousands and thousands of things you can keep counting.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if I say, all of these are you, the dreamers mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the dreamers mind which is projecting all of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it true?
[SPEAKER_04]: From the point of view of the dreamers mind, how many things are there in the dream?
[SPEAKER_04]: not to, though it appears to be 1,000 and 1 things, it is not to, because you cannot count those things do not exist outside your mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your mind alone is appearing in those ways.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hence, the only non-dual reality in your dream is your dreamers mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: As far as the dream is concerned, your mind is adwaitum, non-dual with respect to your dream world.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here, in this waking world, you the consciousness are non-dual.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have not gone so far here, but you just mentioned that is why I said, then only you can see adwaitum.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness is non-dual, why?
[SPEAKER_04]: So every thing that is experienced in consciousness is nothing apart from that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just appearances in consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly, if there are appearances in dream.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a lot of logic to prove that a lot of, yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's just go ahead a little more.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the self-consciousness within you is not an object,
[SPEAKER_04]: to what will it be an object?
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at the subtle logic here, to what will it be an object?
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no other consciousness to which it will be an object, you the consciousness, to what will you be an object?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do nothing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hence, there is no way of objectifying, objectively knowing you.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, Bhabbhiyata literally it means, experiential ability is not there in you.
[SPEAKER_04]: you are not something that is experienced, stable, as, you cannot step outside yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: You cannot experience yourself as an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because what is necessary to experience something as an object, consciousness, and you the consciousness, to what will you be an object, is there any other second consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because of the lack of any other second-knower, you cannot be a known object, but, but here is the main part and thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I am A Vaanubhuti Twar, you are ever experienced your question.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, the consciousness, are ever experienced.
[SPEAKER_04]: never an objective experience, but ever the experienceer and you are revealed in and through all the experiences of all the objects that you experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Praty Bhodhavidditam Matham, Kain Openishad says, in every experience God is revealed to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You realize your drumman nature in every experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you see, when you hear, when you smell, when you laugh, when you are angry, when you meditate, when you attend the Vedanta class, and when you go and watch a movie, in every one of those experiences, what is being revealed?
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are shining forth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it not so?
[SPEAKER_04]: If only you wouldn't know it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Arthman Brahman is being continuously revealed, you don't have to search for one more experience of Arthman or Brahman, in every experience Brahman is being revealed, yes you can have special mystical experiences, Ramakrishna had a mystical experience of Kali, often, saints have different experiences, mirabhaya experience of Krishna.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gopala, those are names and forms superimposed upon the same consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the consciousness itself, Satjidana and the itself, Brahman itself is never an object of experience, because to what could it be an object of experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the really important thing is, as Vivekanda said, you are more than known.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not knowable, but you're not unknown either.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're more than known, because in every act of knowledge, knowing is an actor, pure consciousness, shining on the mind, mind using the senses, and knows this book.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an act, mental act.
[SPEAKER_04]: In every act of knowledge, consciousness alone is revealed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not as an object, at the subject of that experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every time you, as a subject, are shining forth in all of your experiences.
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the finest and very beautiful definitions of Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a pointer to Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anubhava, maatra, param, brahma.
[SPEAKER_04]: Conscious experience itself is Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: And where do I meet it?
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean by experience itself?
[SPEAKER_04]: If I'm reading a book, is that Brahman?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, wait.
[SPEAKER_04]: Experience itself.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Sanskrit word is very precise.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anubhava, maatram.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean experience itself?
[SPEAKER_04]: Experience, I understand, experience itself, Anubhava, Mathram, or another word would be experience only.
[SPEAKER_04]: In every experience, if you drop the object of experience and you the experience, the intellect which is experiencing, if you just drop it, take pure experience in itself, it will settle back into pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drop the object, drop the so-called subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: Experience itself settles back into pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me give you a technique of meditation, which they couple of techniques.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are borrowed from Kashmir Shaiwism, not in Advaita.
[SPEAKER_04]: Advaita expects you to understand this and being an illumine and that's it, good-bye.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kashmir Shaiwism understands.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are multiple problems which we have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, couple of techniques.
[SPEAKER_04]: One is the meditation on sky, akasha.
[SPEAKER_04]: The technique is like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can try it yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is relaxed and it is straight.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not rigid.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can just try it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now if you like, you can close your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And imagine vast blue sky, just a vast blue sky, no clouds, vast blue sky, above you, below you, to your right and to your left, to your front and behind you, surrounding you and you are not even a body, you are just awareness of a vast blue sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: Above and below and all around, a vast blue sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: No ground, no earth, no ocean, no water.
[SPEAKER_04]: No persons.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just space and its blue.
[SPEAKER_04]: Focus on that intensely, vast blue sky and nothing else.
[SPEAKER_04]: drop the sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: The sky disappears.
[SPEAKER_04]: What remains?
[SPEAKER_04]: If it didn't work, then imagine the vast blue sky king and relax into it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Take time and relax into it, vast blue sky all around.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you are steady and intense, in a flash, just drop that imagination of the sky, the sky, just drop it, no sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: What remains?
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody said nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me ask you, what is aware of that nothing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't give it a name also.
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody is whispering consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't give it a name also.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Slowly open your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you like, you're not supposed to do it so fast.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm supposed to try it again and again for quite a long period of time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Basically, what is done is the most empty thing you can imagine.
[SPEAKER_04]: The most vast and empty thing you can imagine.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's still an object of your imagination, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, conceptually, in your imagination itself, drop that empty thing, the sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: What will remain is a nameless awareness.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we have experienced this during meditation, the nothingness, can it be scary and it can be scary?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you handle that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, I'll tell you how to handle that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting that some of you said,
[SPEAKER_04]: Nothing, the sky itself is pretty close to nothing, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: The sky itself is pretty close to nothing, and you drop that then what remains?
[SPEAKER_04]: Nothing, and some of you said consciousness only.
[SPEAKER_04]: The idea is to come to that point, that consciousness only, because if you experience and nothing, it's a very natural experience and nothing, why do you experience anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because of our old problem trying to look for an object, I gave you the subtlest possible object, a sky.
[SPEAKER_04]: a vast space.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drop it?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is nothing?
[SPEAKER_04]: But the one which saw the sky and the one which sees the nothing, that one is there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how do you handle that nothing?
[SPEAKER_04]: I told you in spiritual life if you probe far enough you come to avoid.
[SPEAKER_04]: At that point you must note that why it is appearing to something.
[SPEAKER_04]: See that breakthrough must come.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that something is not a thing, it's the pure subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: What you know, what is the breakthrough?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the breakthrough is the 10th man had to undergo.
[SPEAKER_04]: But switching from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, the turning around to myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: The turning around from the vast sky to nothing to myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: That turning around you must correct it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Otherwise, you'll keep getting stuck at a void.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once you get it, no problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can do it any time.
[SPEAKER_07]: Because you are also aware of the voice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you are aware of the voice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ask yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But isn't that nothing also an experience?
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_04]: How can you deny that, which is experiencing?
[SPEAKER_04]: And the tendency will be to try to objectify that thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll never be able to objectify it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll bounce back into nothing next again.
[SPEAKER_04]: But always remind yourself that nothing is appearing to
[SPEAKER_04]: to you, the pure subject.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you settle back and rest on the pure subject?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, the second meditation is on Ananda.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mostly we speak about sub-thenship, but Ananda, here's a nice meditation.
[SPEAKER_04]: It shows you the difference between happiness and misery and also shows you a direct way to Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Note one thing, Vedanta points out one thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you noticed a very interesting difference between misery?
[SPEAKER_04]: You have not, because I'll tell you, it's a very Vedantic way of looking at happiness and misery.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's an interesting difference between happiness, just our ordinary happiness and misery.
[SPEAKER_04]: In happiness, when you have intense happiness of any sort, if you
[SPEAKER_04]: drop the object, you can dwell only with the happiness itself, the object which made you happy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our tendency is when we enjoy happiness, at the peak of our happiness, it could be any kind of sensual, aesthetic, philosophical, intellectual, artistic, any kind of happiness, spiritual
[SPEAKER_04]: any kind of happiness.
[SPEAKER_04]: At the peak of that, we automatically tend to dismiss the object.
[SPEAKER_04]: When it's happiness is intense, the object is an interference.
[SPEAKER_04]: Till that point, the object was the one giving us happiness.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then you would like to savor it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You close your eyes and you be with that blissful feeling.
[SPEAKER_04]: In intense enjoyment, the object is dropped.
[SPEAKER_04]: Object of enjoyment.
[SPEAKER_04]: misery, if you drop the object of misery, misery disappears, think about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a great insight.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm unhappy.
[SPEAKER_04]: What am I unhappy about?
[SPEAKER_04]: If there is something, usually sometimes people are generally depressed, but if you see there is something there, they are depressed about.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you drop that, the depression goes away.
[SPEAKER_04]: the unappiness, the dissatisfied, the thing goes away when you drop the object of that dissatisfaction.
[SPEAKER_04]: If it is dropped, it goes away.
[SPEAKER_04]: In bliss, it is just the opposite.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you drop the object of happiness, happiness be deepens and remains as it deepens back into the real bliss, which is not an objective happiness.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is beyond words.
[SPEAKER_04]: That meditation you can try.
[SPEAKER_04]: Imagine a time when you are very happy,
[SPEAKER_04]: or you're happy in the companion of a very beloved friend, or a companionship of a beloved friend or somebody.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then mentally, don't physically drop the friend.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll be annoyed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mentally drop that object, the natural beauty of the friend or whatever, and remain with that happiness.
[SPEAKER_04]: You will see it will go back into something nameless.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's very, very close to your suchi down in the nature.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are very beautiful meditations, not in Vedanta actually in Kashmir Shivism.
[SPEAKER_04]: They use multiple techniques.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a book called Wigyanabhirava with a hundred and twelve techniques of meditation.
[SPEAKER_04]: All of them leading you back to Sathchi Dhananda.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm shrinking intensely about this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I don't think about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is there?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just like I'm looking at, it's intensely, what is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I have a lot of question on the nothingness part.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, when you're experiencing the consciousness or the nothingness, then there is no, because you're not identifying
[SPEAKER_00]: or your mind is not identifying with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't realize that you're scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as you realize that, that's when you get scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, is it just a matter of getting used to it that you won't get scared or my mind won't get scared?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you follow this very carefully.
[SPEAKER_04]: The mind gets scared, you know why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because the mind seems to be dissolved, empty doubt.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, the emptiness of yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what's scary.
[SPEAKER_04]: what you considered.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, why that is scary?
[SPEAKER_04]: Deep inside, no matter how much way down to be read, we are very much convinced that we are this, where this is dissolved into nothingness, but I am not this.
[SPEAKER_04]: This dissolved into nothingness means that I do not buy down the body and mind into a puddle or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is there, but I am not any of these.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel that, my first feeling will be, then I am empty, I am shunnyam, I am nothing, I am avoid, that is scary, why is it scary because we are very much rooted in the intellect and the mind and that is scary for the intellect of the mind because the intellect of the mind then seems to fly apart, leaving nothing in its place.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what Vedanta says, again and again, you are missing something very important, the crucial thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is observing that void, that which was shining upon the intellect and the mind, which is other than the intellect and the mind, shining upon the intellect and the mind, is also shining upon the absence of intellect and mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: The intellect and mind are the cave, what dwells in that cave, is apart from the cave, but also right there.
[SPEAKER_04]: The line which dwells in the cave is not the cave.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's also not away from the cave, it's there in the cave.
[SPEAKER_04]: You the pure consciousness shining upon, which is the difference between consciousness and intellect must be made clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even more precisely, the difference between consciousness and ego must be made clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you say, I, that's the ego.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is aware of the eye just then?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a subtle question.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you say, I, was, is it not an experience, you see your hand, it is not an experience, breathing an out, an experience, say, I to yourself, that is also an experience to whom?
[SPEAKER_04]: That one, the witness of the eye, normally we take the eye as the witness, who is witnessing all this eye, but who is witnessing the eye?
[SPEAKER_04]: You will ask, why do you say somebody is witnessing die?
[SPEAKER_04]: I say look at your experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: Isn't the I experienced?
[SPEAKER_04]: Not design.
[SPEAKER_04]: The I, isn't it experienced?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody experiences I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is experiencing the I am?
[SPEAKER_10]: All the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: The reflective consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: The reflected consciousness is in the I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why I feel conscious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Whenever you say, I feel conscious.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: I is a thought, where in the intellect, but you also feel conscious, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, just see, I, and I will, it's not just a thought, it's an aware thought, that awareness is the reflected consciousness, then what is the original?
[SPEAKER_04]: The I, it's like this, the I is like a mirror, the I is like a mirror, and the reflected consciousness is like your face in the mirror.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then where is the original face?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just as it is, it is almost like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here is a mirror in front of my face.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can see the mirror, the mirror is the thought eye, the intellect eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: In that eye that awareness which shines is like the reflected face.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the original face?
[SPEAKER_04]: One characteristic of the original face is, you could do not see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: One characteristic of the reflected face is you see it.
[SPEAKER_04]: One characteristic of original consciousness is you cannot experience it.
[SPEAKER_04]: One characteristic of reflected consciousness is you can experience it, you are experiencing it right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, real face appears as it appears as a reflected face, the real face is not seen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Similarly, real consciousness, optimal is not an object, but the real face is the you.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the, we can say the tragedy of it, the real, it's not actually a tragedy, it's the, it's, it's good that it's so, the real you is not seen.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is seen is not the real you, Bradley the famous British philosopher is to say, the real never appears, what appears is not real.
[SPEAKER_10]: So the misery that you feel, that you refer to right now, you have nothing, and the bliss that you feel, that you draw.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_10]: The source.
[SPEAKER_10]: All those are experienced.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_10]: And so they are not in your heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but one thing you'll notice about the bliss when you drop the object of bliss and the subject, I am happy about this cookie, drop the cookie and drop the eye that happiness also will lose its objective quality and melt back into something unavailable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you see that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you see that it melts back into something unavailable?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's no longer an object of experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only true objects are the cookie and the also the intellectual eye which is enjoying the cookie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Drop both it melts back that happiness melts back into consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: There will be a borderline where it melts back into and from an object of experience into experience itself.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no way of explaining it.
[SPEAKER_10]: You can understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is true, but as I say, it is a transition, because definitely it was an experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: And when you drop the object in the subject, that experience which had an objective quality, the objective quality of that will disappear and it melts back into the original thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That transition takes place, and it's limit, it's no longer an experience, it's just you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can't say it's nothing.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, it is everything, that's what shines forth as this universe.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And in terms of experiencing the feeling, the feeling is to experience by the mind.
[SPEAKER_09]: But in this context, we're not going to call that object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which one?
[SPEAKER_09]: You're feeling.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: It starts up with the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: See, this is none of them are disconnected.
[SPEAKER_04]: The consciousness is shining through the mind and intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: It starts up with the mind and intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, settle SPAC.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can only use these words.
[SPEAKER_04]: Settle SPAC or relax SPAC or merges back into the original consciousness, into such children and them.
[SPEAKER_10]: And if we change things like that, we can change the book, and the books, and I know I'm going to experience the object.
[SPEAKER_10]: But I'm still experiencing a feeling.
[SPEAKER_10]: Now that feeling,
[SPEAKER_04]: It is an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the object, when you focus on that, it will lose quickly, lose its objective nature.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, that is the next object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't think about it so much analytical in terms of steps.
[SPEAKER_04]: At one point, you must go beyond an objective manipulation of the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: It must settle back into you yourself.
[SPEAKER_09]: and you must try it and you settle and it settles back into you, you will settle.
[SPEAKER_09]: Would you say that that is a moment of consciousness or in consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything is a moment of consciousness, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Now it's also a moment of consciousness, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a moment where you are intuiting.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's an imitation, sometimes you experience that, especially.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see what we have done is this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll put it as briefly as I can.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every moment is a moment of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: What consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Pure consciousness, of course, all the time it's there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the problem is, what is the problem?
[SPEAKER_04]: Just about all the time, pure consciousness is also accompanied by the appearances of objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: What objects?
[SPEAKER_04]: This thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Body, breath, mind, intellect, memories, ideas, ego, these are all objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: When are they appearing?
[SPEAKER_04]: They're appearing parallelly with consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: They are appearing parallelly with consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now these meditations, they drop those objects, they try to make you drop those objects even for sometimes for an instant, instant works better than continuous because continuously we are not experienced meditators.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you could do it continuously you would attain some are they.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you cannot attain some are they at least try it instantaneously, don't try to hold on to the void intensely rather bring back an object and drop it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You might wonder, so we bring back an object and drop it, is the difference between the here it is the precise explanation, it is the difference between presence and absence both illumined by one consciousness, where we are hoping you will intuitively grasp that consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: I repeat, it's that difference between the presence of objects in consciousness and the absence of objects in consciousness where we hope you will be able to intuit the original consciousness, intuitively grasp the original consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the Omnobooti, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Omnobooti is, object is there, Omnobooti, isn't it Omnobooti?
[SPEAKER_04]: No object, Omnobooti, what is common to object and no object?
[SPEAKER_04]: You the source of that Omnobooti, are you with me?
[SPEAKER_06]: of awareness of consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, let's not go into that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you'll go into, if you say awareness of consciousness, I will ask you the same question this first asked, what other consciousness is there to be aware of consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: You cannot.
[SPEAKER_04]: then you will go into what is called Anava Sthadoshya, the regressors adding finitabh.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you are aware of consciousness, then you are conscious of awareness.
[SPEAKER_04]: As you are aware of consciousness of awareness, there is no end to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it is not possible.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rather, look at your own experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is only one consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Though, you know what the whole problem with this thing is, it's our old tenth man problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very simple, once you're, if you cannot make that turn, you will be stranded in a void.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you can reach the void, you are very close.
[SPEAKER_04]: In your understanding, at least, if you can experience a dissolution and nothingness, a blankness, you're very close.
[SPEAKER_04]: From there, if you can go back to the one experiencing, that which experience is the void, that is the point, that which experience is the void is also that which is experiencing the rest of your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not that it's present only in some are the or in the void.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's present right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you understand what I am saying, it's that consciousness which illuminates your understanding.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you can't, don't get exactly what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's that very consciousness which illuminates the lack of awareness, lack of understanding in your intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now let me go on to the next one.
[SPEAKER_04]: If this is more or less sort of grasp, the next one at this point the student says
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sort of getting what you are saying, the Atman is none of this is not the intellect, not the mind, it's not an object, it is that which illumines all objects and all experiences, it is experience, it's self, what you are saying, they sense of experience, Anubha was Swarupatma or Anubha was Mathra Param Brahma, Anubha consciousness experience, it's self, pure experience, you know what I might say.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean by pure experience, in pure experience, I am not talking about moral and immoral experiences, I am talking about experience with subject and object, if you drop this subject and object, your experience is gone, no, something remains, an unnameable something remains.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, this student is okay, I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, this student, the next thing we will, this student will say is exactly what we would also like to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: That pure consciousness, how do I experience it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I understand you cannot experience it as an object, but still I would like to experience it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then he gives a very interesting, next two verses lead together and explain it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very interesting example.
[SPEAKER_04]: 14 and 15.
[SPEAKER_04]: Madhuri Adi Swabhavanam Madhuri Adi Swabhavanam Anyatra Swagunarpinam Anyatra Swagunarpinam Swasminstadhar Pana Peeksha
[SPEAKER_01]: Swasmin tada rupana piksha Swasmin tada rupana piksha No Swasmin tada rupana piksha No Na chastya nya dharpakam Na chastya nya dharpakam
[SPEAKER_07]: Shubatov can read objects of texts like sweet and bitter in part, they are cast to others.
[SPEAKER_07]: That is their nature.
[SPEAKER_07]: They do not stand in need of their being imparted to themselves.
[SPEAKER_07]: Nor are there other things to impart those texts to themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: Number 15, Arpakantara, Arpakantara Rahi Tipee, Arpakantara Rahi Tipee, Arstesham Tatsubhawata, Arstesham Tatsubhawata, Mahavutathanubhavviattum.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mabu, Tata, Lubak, Yatum, Bodhak, Matuna, Yate, Bodhak, Matuna, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate, Yate
[SPEAKER_05]: namely the awareness when it is not experienced as an object of experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: What does it mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a very simple but powerful example.
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to make this a glass of water, you want to make it sweet, what do you do add sugar to it?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a glass of milk, you want to make it sweet, what do you do, you add sugar to it, there is a vegetable or curry you're cooking, you want to make it sweet, what do you do, you add sugar to it, I remember in our main monastery, Bellowed Manfages in Bengal.
[SPEAKER_04]: So our brothers and monks who would come from other parts of India, they would say gumblingly, you Bengal is you put sugar in everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: In sweet, you put sugar, in vegetables, you put sugar, in curry, you put sugar, in curds, in Bengal, all Bengal is they take curds which sugar, yogurt which sugar, but most other parts of India they take curd as something sour very naturally.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, you put sugar in something you want to make it sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you add sugar to make it sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Similarly, it is hard to make it salty.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, the question is, so what shall I add to x, y, z to make it sweet sugar?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: What shall I add to sugar to make it sweet?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, the rule is you have to add sugar.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there any need to add sugar to sugar make it sweet?
[SPEAKER_04]: You would think so, because if you are used to making things sweet by adding sugar, you would think that maybe you will always add sugar to make things sweet, so through sugar also you need to add sugar, but no you don't, sugar is the only exception, because it's natural flavor is sweetness, it lends sweetness to other things, itself by itself, it's always sweet, you don't need to add anything to it to make it sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what was that line that we could on the head said, he was eating at someone's dinner and he said, well, if you add sugar to nails, it would be, remember he said something.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that I don't remember, it could be, it could be, it could be, yes, it would be sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now,
[SPEAKER_04]: If you add sugar to something, it becomes sweet.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is some, I'm reminded of another story.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, it's not exactly relevant, but it's very funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw this little kid in one of our schools, Ramakrishna Mission Schools in Jamshadepur.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a cultural program where the children were presenting a little drama or a skit or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And each of the children, the boys and girls would dress as something as flowers or things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was this little boy.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he must have been all of five years or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was supposed to be sugar.
[SPEAKER_04]: and they all had to step forward and all their lines were like they would have to step forward and say I am such and such and then step back.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all they were dressed like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's why you could see who he was terrified on on stage.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was a girl standing next to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was sort of paralyzed when his turn came and the girl gave him a show.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was like a little force forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: He stumbled forward and he said, I'm sugar and I'm sweet and he
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the natural flavour of sugar.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, what is the point here?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think you get the point here, but I'll just show you something.
[SPEAKER_04]: To know anything, what do you need?
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then to know consciousness?
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness itself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, that's the difficult thing to grasp.
[SPEAKER_04]: To know, say a cup of coffee, for example.
[SPEAKER_04]: No means to see its melaton taste it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can smell it, you can see it, you can feel it warmth and you can taste it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you need the body.
[SPEAKER_04]: With the sense organs and all that you need the body.
[SPEAKER_04]: And from the body that means sense organs, brain and all that, it goes to the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the mind, you get what is called coffee or color of ritti.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the object, this is the body, and this is the mind, subtle body.
[SPEAKER_04]: cognition.
[SPEAKER_04]: This cognition is about a cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, ritti is a cognition, a movement in the mind, and a movement in the mind of ritti is always about something.
[SPEAKER_04]: You think of a pen, so you have a pen, a car of ritti in the mind, a car of its form, a thought in the form of a pen in your mind about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But note one thing, all of these are objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: The coffee is an object, even the body is an object, everybody will agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: But according to Vedant, even the mind is an object.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you're aware of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, none of these are all objective.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no consciousness, no awareness in and of them, in the reflected consciousness sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: To give you an experience of coffee, what you need, you need to add consciousness to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: the big sea consciousness add consciousness to it and then it lightens it gets illumined this reflected consciousness I am seeing touching tasting smelling coffee this experience comes up to this point in Sanskrit jada insensient it becomes lit up by the presence of consciousness add consciousness to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, to experience coffee add consciousness, to experience tea add consciousness, to experience central part add consciousness, to experience rain and snow and summer and winter add consciousness or add it to consciousness, but to experience consciousness itself, it's like that sugar.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like sugar is sweet in its very natural flavor, you don't need another consciousness to experience consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only thing is here is the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Consciousness cannot be experienced like this as its own object, rather it is ever experienced if you can use the word experience as the experience, serve of everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like if you want to see anything,
[SPEAKER_04]: bring it in front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't see the pen here, in front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: See my hand in front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: See the cloth in front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: See the board in front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: See your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: In front of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: In front of a mirror, somebody said, is that true, can you see your eyes in a mirror?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, no, you're a good way around the student.
[SPEAKER_04]: When most people would feel, yeah, I can see my eyes in a mirror.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, you can see a reflection of your eyes in a mirror.
[SPEAKER_04]: Take a picture of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: What did you sing?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're seeing a picture of your eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: You cannot see the eyes directly.
[SPEAKER_04]: right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But how do you know you have got eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you can see, you can see what?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you know there is a pen?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I can see the pen.
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you know there is my hand?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I can see your hand.
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you know that you have got eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I can see my eyes?
[SPEAKER_05]: I can see my eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: By seeing, by seeing what, do you know that you have got eyes?
[SPEAKER_10]: Anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: By seeing what do you know that there is a pen?
[SPEAKER_04]: By seeing a pen only.
[SPEAKER_04]: But by seeing what do you know that you have got your, you have got eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Some people will say only when I see a reflection of my eyes in a mirror.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, actually, when you see anything that's the very fact that you're seeing is that now here is the subtle thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I say that every act of seeing is also an experience of your eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's true that it's an experience of the pen, but isn't it also an experience of your eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: True, it's an experience of a hand, but isn't it also an experience of your eyes?
[SPEAKER_04]: every experience of the universe you have of your life whatever you experience good and bad religious and secular whatever you are experiencing is an experience of artmen of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_02]: What can I say it's the experience of the mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Even the mind also is revealed by the artmen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every thought ultimately everything has to come to mind to become a thought, otherwise you cannot experience with the, but all those with these are also revealed by consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, every experience, see, this is a very crucial thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Atma gana is available to us.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brahma gana is available to us when people will think only in samadhi.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: All the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: In samadhi.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Outside samadhi.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not making it up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can open the words of the can open, you should say, Praty, when you experience Brahman in every experience of the word, talking, playing, laughing, imagining, meditating, whatever you do, you're experiencing Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: You cannot get away from Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm your shokran in this head.
[SPEAKER_04]: How will I see God?
[SPEAKER_04]: Foolish question, how will you not see God?
[SPEAKER_04]: That is what the incredible thing about Advaita is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, these two verses, very simple.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, you see the example.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you ask somebody insists, no, show me that pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you know what the question is like.
[SPEAKER_04]: sweetness and saltiness and other things which lend their nature to you know milk can sugar water and all of that they do not expect that you have to add more sugar to sugar for to get sweetness or salt to salt is to get saltiness because that is their original
[SPEAKER_04]: Even that there is, there is no other, or upcoming one, which gives its nature to something else.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no other such flavor.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what you call them, a savory or a flavor like.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no other flavor, but they themselves are sufficient, because it's their own nature.
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't require sugar, doesn't require any further sweetener to make it sweet, because it's its own nature.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the example.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is exemplified?
[SPEAKER_04]: Mavu Tata Anubha Vyakthum, let there be no experienceability of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let it not have an objective experienceability that you cannot just by that, you cannot deny the existence of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is both hot might is the very nature of experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is very nature is to shine out, but shine out in what, shine out in all experiences.
[SPEAKER_04]: just because it cannot be experienced objectively.
[SPEAKER_04]: So in the case of everything else, if you cannot experience it objectively, you cannot logically speak of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I say there is object, abrakadabra here.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is something called abrakadabra here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You say, okay, can I see it?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it can't be seen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I hear it?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it can't be heard.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I touch it?
[SPEAKER_04]: It can't be touched.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you smell it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Taste it?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you infer it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you prove it mathematically?
[SPEAKER_04]: Can it be revealed by scientific instruments?
[SPEAKER_04]: Any way at all?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it a matter of belief also?
[SPEAKER_04]: It is revealed by some religious book?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then sir, you have no right to talk about such a thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even no way.
[SPEAKER_04]: by senses, by mathematics, by science, by religion, by belief in no way you can talk about something.
[SPEAKER_04]: In that case, don't talk about it, then you can talk about infinite number of imaginary things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, an objective thing, if you cannot make it an object, you can, you have no right to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But in this case, in the case of consciousness, though you cannot make it an object, the revelation of every object, the experience of every object shows the existence of consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the unique thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a simple thing, but unless one grasps it, this is the biggest hurdle to a
[SPEAKER_04]: Even the falsity of the world, Jagat is an appearance, false world is false, that Brahman alone is real, that's a secondary step, but to grasp this Brahman as an ever revealed reality within yourself, as yourself, that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once you get that, the rest is matter of philosophy and a little bit of practice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, we are almost out of time, till there is something that I wanted to talk to you about.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's far ahead in our discussion.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in the sixth chapter of Pancidhati.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know when we'll get to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there is a section towards the end of the sixth chapter, where from verse number, it's one of the biggest, it's the biggest chapter in the book.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think one of the biggest, six and seven chapters.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the sixth chapter, towards the end, 200, verse number 240, 247 to 290, 247 to 90,
[SPEAKER_04]: What is discussed there, after all these Vedantic discussions, the student has questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the teacher answers those questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you read those questions, you will say, yes, that's what I wanted to ask.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every one of those questions is questions that we all have.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll run you through some of them, just see you, you will enjoy it, because you, it works only when you have already understood something of Advait, it works only for an advanced student, because once you say that, I'm getting what you say, but if you reach that stage, if you have not reached, what does Advait say, if you want to say that, what does Vedant they say, then drink Vishya, Bhivaya, Kampanchya, Dashi, Classes, Upanishads, come to the Sunday talk, that's all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you come to these questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are questions of advanced student and the answers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Answers are very beautiful.
[SPEAKER_04]: They keep pointing back to the self.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very relevant to what we were doing now.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me quickly take you to through the Q&A.
[SPEAKER_04]: The questions and answers.
[SPEAKER_04]: The student says, I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That I am like the 10th man.
[SPEAKER_04]: The consciousness beyond body and mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm experiencing it.
[SPEAKER_04]: In my life, everything is experienced.
[SPEAKER_04]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I tend to question one, but the moment I step outside the class into the real world, I tend to go back into a dualistic mode of thinking.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am this person, here's the word, this is my life.
[SPEAKER_04]: Question number one, come come sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's the question.
[SPEAKER_04]: The moment I come in contact with the world, I sleep back into the dualistic way of thinking.
[SPEAKER_04]: Answered by the teacher.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the class, what did you do?
[SPEAKER_04]: You did this inquire in Sanskrit, which are you saw?
[SPEAKER_04]: How I am not this object, not this object, not this object.
[SPEAKER_04]: I must be the witness of all of these objects.
[SPEAKER_04]: Problems are in the world, in the body, in the mind, the none of the problems are in the witness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Correct?
[SPEAKER_04]: Students say, yes, I understand that, but no buts, then you do that thing only, that which are.
[SPEAKER_04]: When, whenever you feel a problem, any problem, worldly problem, physical problem, mental problem, settle down quietly, use the text, step by step, go back and see, at each stage,
[SPEAKER_04]: The sea has a reality.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here is the object, I'm aware of the object, in the mind, a flash of irritation or misery, or even meaninglessness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nothing is good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Am I aware of it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mind, suffering from meaninglessness, aware of it, emptiness, hopelessness, aware of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course, I'm aware of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That which is aware of the hopelessness in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it hopeless?
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: The question one answered one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the student says, yes, but the thing is, next but, but the thing is, these things I can understand.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this kind of which are how long do I
[SPEAKER_04]: The guru says, why do you ask this question?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you enjoy your morning cup of coffee?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, have you ever asked, how long do I have to take keep taking coffee?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's because there's something within you which finds this process tiresome.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is an enjoyable process.
[SPEAKER_04]: The guru says,
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at this, dualistic thinking, thinking about the world, thinking about the body and the mental problems, that is a source of pain and frustration.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thinking about the reality beyond all of that, non-dwellistic, this dwelling on your non-dwellistic self is a source of joy and peace, keep doing it, what is your problem?
[SPEAKER_04]: But yes, to answer your question, there is a limit, a time will come when you will no longer say, I understand it but, you will say, I understand it, it's clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: and not out of fear that, okay, he's going to start one of the class now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the Gita, in the Bhagavad Gita, I'd say, whenever what Krishna had to teach, he taught in the second chapter, but then Arjuna had very good questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Krishna answered those questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sir, third chapter, fourth chapter, fifth chapter.
[SPEAKER_04]: By the time he went to the 18 chapter, Arjuna had sort of caught him down to his this thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he stopped asking questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Krishna sort of probed.
[SPEAKER_04]: So are you okay with this?
[SPEAKER_04]: What I've said?
[SPEAKER_04]: Arjuna said, Nastamo, Svithi, I loved her.
[SPEAKER_04]: All my delusions, confusions are gone.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I have recovered from my problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much because somebody joked he's afraid of Krishna will start the 19th chapter.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, you're really clear.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have no more doubts.
[SPEAKER_04]: Beyond doubt.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's as clear as the sun present to you, as sun shining in the sky, it's as clear as that to you.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_06]: Just because you are turning that word.
[SPEAKER_06]: Why does he say it's primitive?
[SPEAKER_06]: Left door, more eyes, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he lost his equivalence, was in a got elimination, it was clear, he got wisdom with his mind.
[SPEAKER_06]: Why does he use their words?
[SPEAKER_04]: There, I mean, I could deal with that, but let me go on with this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, I'll just point out a couple of sentences.
[SPEAKER_04]: One is, in the process, Tithapraghya Sikaba, shall you see?
[SPEAKER_04]: Krotha, Mahvati Sammohas, Sammoha, Smythipe Brahma.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you are received wisdom is lost when you are in delusion, that is one reason.
[SPEAKER_04]: The second reason is the whole problem of Arjuna was a loss of his awareness of his identity, you know, the Swabhabhabha is actually a three-hour barrier.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that is regained.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a deeper spiritual meaning to it, also I will not go into that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So go on with the practice, this is a second question.
[SPEAKER_04]: How long do I have to go on with this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Go on, what's the problem?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do well on yourself, do well on what that's what is most enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really it's very enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the third question, deeper question, again one more.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but, but.
[SPEAKER_04]: I understand this, but I'm still assailed by hunger and thirst and pain and I cannot deny it if somebody says a hurtful word, there's a flash of resentment and hurt in my mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel hungry, I feel hungry and there's this thirst, I feel thirsty, even as the body is sick, I feel sick and tired.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know I'm the witness consciousness, but
[SPEAKER_04]: then the teacher answers, if you see the question, these are questions any advanced student has, when you are beginning to get Vedanta, these questions will come up thing, before that these questions will not come up, before that what is this Atma, what is pure consciousness, those questions will come up, they attend the classes for long enough, by the time you are in third chapter, we are doing this second chapter of Panchadhish, I mean we did the first one and then we are doing the third one, so these questions should come up now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I still feel hunger and thirst, meaning thereby somehow the idea is that I should not am the Atmanav at beyond hunger and thirst, so I should not feel hunger and thirst.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, the Guru points out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Notice how you use the word I.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you say I know I am Satjidhananda, okay?
[SPEAKER_04]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_04]: Next when you say, but I still feel hungry and thirsty, which I is that the Satjidhananda
[SPEAKER_04]: It is the eye here, the body is there, the body because of its biological necessities becomes hungry, thirsty, tired, ill and in the mind immediately, mind is connected to the body, mind there will be a variety, I am hungry, eyes are thought in the mind also, that is the ego.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are switching back and forth between ego and such and on and there.
[SPEAKER_04]: In your idea of I, please learn to exclude this one and this one and stay here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Till now Vedanta has been trying to establish the very existence of this thing for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once you begin to understand if you claim I get it, stay here, exclude these from the meaning of I.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we are not denying hunger and thirst, Vedanta never denies anything that you experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: But hunger is where, in the body, in the pranamaya kosher.
[SPEAKER_04]: The misery caused by hunger is where, in the mind, who is the one who's saying, I am unhappy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the ego.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the one which is aware of the whole experience, is it hungry?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it unhappy?
[SPEAKER_04]: Who are you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Make up your mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the next question.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, what has happened?
[SPEAKER_04]: This is called a diasa superimposition.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have taken the body and mind and put it on this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I should refer to this, but what you have done is taken body and mind and put it on the real I. I am this one again.
[SPEAKER_04]: I understand Swami that I am such
[SPEAKER_04]: Elephants, they're taken to bathe in the village ponds, and imagine, bathe in an elephant.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you bathe the baby, it's a big job, imagine bathe, bathe in an elephant in the pond.
[SPEAKER_04]: So after such a lot of hard work, the elephant is bathe, and it comes out of the pond, and it's shiny and black, and what's the first thing it does?
[SPEAKER_04]: It takes dust, and throws it on itself, and becomes all nice and muddy again.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's exactly what you do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Go to all the trouble.
[SPEAKER_04]: The elephant is taken to Vedanta class.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I understand, I am the witness of the body of the mind, of the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I am, or ever, ever the awareness.
[SPEAKER_04]: The moment a problem arises in body and mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I throw it to take it with my trunk and throw it upon myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you say, don't do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a diasa, super-imposition, don't super-impose.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ten, then, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: How are you not to do that?
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, that's the next question, actually.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's actually the next question.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, it's slightly different language.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jhoti diad diasa, is it the problem?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it happens by itself, straight away?
[SPEAKER_04]: Student asks, yeah, I know what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it happens straight away in a flash.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, this thing is something that you have to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have to use Vedanta to understand this, to clarify and separate.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this superimposing one, it's natural for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It happens in a flash.
[SPEAKER_04]: Somebody gives me a shower on the sidewalk and I play it up in anger.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this road rage, yesterday I learnt a new term, parking rage.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I don't have this sidewalk rage.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is this sidewalk rage?
[SPEAKER_04]: Even for a Vedanta student, why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because reflexively, straight away, I take this and put it on myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did not say, in my awareness, one body shoved the other body.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: You shoved me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who do you think you are?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the answer?
[SPEAKER_04]: The answer is this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here is the role which where yoga can help us.
[SPEAKER_04]: You see, why does it happen reflexively and immediately in straight away?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because of long and sincere practice.
[SPEAKER_04]: All the time, we have been used to this.
[SPEAKER_04]: From our very birth, I am this body.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every little thing that happens outside this body, inside this body, is knee.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am this mind, every thought and desire that comes up there, it's my thought, my desire, my rage, my unhappiness, my happiness, my spirituality, it's all mind, it's reflexive.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only way to undo practice is through the reverse practice.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only way to undo ignorance is through knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have ignorance Vedanta removed ignorance.
[SPEAKER_04]: but Vedanta is not in the business of removing habitual tendencies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Habitual tendencies are removed by practice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Practice is the realm of yoga.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nidhidh has another that's why you see Vedantic meditation often speaks like yoga textbooks.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what Vedant yoga starts with the mind, calm down the mind, purify the mind, focus the mind concentrate on the breath or on the light in your heart.
[SPEAKER_04]: Things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Vedant gives you the knowledge first and then use yoga to repeat that knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Until it becomes habitual.
[SPEAKER_04]: This super-imposition is habitual.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing other than a habit.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a bad habit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Reverse it, it'll become a good habit.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've seen it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Habitual.
[SPEAKER_04]: Swami, he is now the vice president of the order.
[SPEAKER_04]: Swami, so he turned and I joined under him in the Ogaramakrishna mission.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we were, I mean, a numerous examples, I'll give you one example of how this habit your tendency is being replaced by a spiritual insight.
[SPEAKER_04]: One day, we were walking with this Swami who was elderly 70 years, maybe nearly, at that time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we were young novices.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is a road in the Ashram.
[SPEAKER_04]: We used to walk up to the gate and back at night.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we would recite verses from the gate, we would have to memorize and all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the group of young people, and this one elderly Swami, now there was an image, immersion, ceremony.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know those idols in Durga, Puja, and Puja.
[SPEAKER_04]: And those are often social occasions that those are occasions in India for religion and education for partying.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's this group with music and drums and all the other images which was being taken in front of the Ashtam.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we stepped outside the Ashtam, big mistake.
[SPEAKER_04]: And to see the image going past.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now that was, that is Bihar.
[SPEAKER_04]: Those who know what Bihar is.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now it's Jarkand.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so it's a pretty, it's the lawless wild west out there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now they were dragging the image was rolling past the gate and they were the people and some of them had drunk they were dancing in front of the image and one of them he was
[SPEAKER_04]: He was in a frenzy huge guy with a sword, and he was dead drunk.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was whirling the sword around and dancing in this, it's like a show, and there were four, three or four people who had tied big ropes around his waist, and they were holding him back.
[SPEAKER_04]: And somehow the rope slipped.
[SPEAKER_04]: With the yellow, this guy, this crazy guy, he leaped forward at us.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were standing right there, and sung the sword at us.
[SPEAKER_04]: All of us, we jumped back instantaneously, this thing, superimposition, and I am the body.
[SPEAKER_08]: Step back.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Swami, I saw this again, never forget.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was standing here in front of all of us, just like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as the man jumped up screaming in front of him, wearing that sword, swishing it through the air, I saw his feet, his feet took one step back, stopped,
[SPEAKER_04]: and stared down that man.
[SPEAKER_04]: It took us two or three seconds to realize what was happening.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we rushed forward again by the time those other guys came and grabbed this guy and pulled him back.
[SPEAKER_04]: That guy was screaming in front of the Swami and swinging the sword, slashing in the air, luckily he didn't hit the Swami.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you see instinctive reaction and the counter reaction to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, bring a no, I shall not do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Stand in front.
[SPEAKER_04]: At the most what will happen?
[SPEAKER_04]: You chop off my head.
[SPEAKER_04]: Fine, it's not my head.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, that kind of conviction must be there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Swami, I was reading, Swami, a condemned under.
[SPEAKER_04]: Once in the Himalayas, in Terry, he was sitting in Himachal.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was sitting with a group of villages in a very dense forest in the lower Himalayas and in a hut at night.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the villages were terrified because they were shepherds.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they could hear a tiger roaring outside, which was sort of walking back and forth outside and roaring.
[SPEAKER_04]: and they were afraid because the heart was flimsy and they had their lands with them and the tiger would naturally attract it to that and the Swami thought, why should I be afraid?
[SPEAKER_04]: I am not the body in mind yet the most what will happen, the tiger will lead the body that's all right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So to the heart of the villagers this Swami got up open the door and walked out and shut the door and walked away into the dark night.
[SPEAKER_04]: He went out into the open sat down there and sat in meditation until it was
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you imagine, Swami Turyananda taking bath in the Ganges, a young monk, I mean as a young boy, when he was going to Ramakrishna, he saw crocodile swimming towards him in the Ganges.
[SPEAKER_04]: And those are scary creatures, swimming and they come saw menacingly slowly, he did lift towards you.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was about to jump out of the water, then he thought, no, isn't this what I believe and practice that I am the Anvya Atman?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not his pound of flesh and blood and he went back and he completed his bath as he usually did with the crocodile watching, didn't move.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't recommend any of these.
[SPEAKER_04]: Neither staring down the guy with a sword nor the tiger nor the crocodile.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, but, on a minor scale throughout our day, such challenges keep coming when we have instinctive reactions.
[SPEAKER_04]: in a safe playpen where you will not get serious to your heart, because the idea is not to die.
[SPEAKER_04]: The idea is to stabilize this system, try it out in real life when in a with a difficult person, in a difficult situation, when you feel sick or depressed or somebody is being particularly trying or the weather is bad or food is not grow to something.
[SPEAKER_04]: try it out, maintain your balance and settle down as the witness of the whole thing, try it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, that is the question, that habitually replace these patterns, then after sometime you will see the reaction will become automatic and habitual, then the next question student says to the teacher.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but I will not go deep into this question that it will take time, but the question is interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: I see this, I can sort of understand what you mean by an awareness shining through body and mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am that, okay, I get it, the tenth mind and everything, but this whole world is false and appearance in awareness which you need to say to establish non-duality,
[SPEAKER_04]: If the world is a second reality and awareness is another reality, then you have to wait them to consciousness and non-conscious, but if all of these non-conscious things are appearances in consciousness, for that you have to prove these are false, they are appearance, they are not real.
[SPEAKER_04]: That seems to be an intellectual argument too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I get the arguments, he says.
[SPEAKER_04]: The student says, I get the arguments.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are arguments for that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have not gone through that yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are ways of understanding why the world is in appearance.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is but still, this is in the intellect.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have convinced me philosophically, but my experience is that the world is real.
[SPEAKER_04]: I experience the world is real, and you are arguing intellectually that the world is not real.
[SPEAKER_04]: Intellectual argument is less powerful than actual experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: My actual experience of a real world cannot be set aside by your
[SPEAKER_04]: very fine arguments about the appearance of the world, even the dream is an analogy you are giving.
[SPEAKER_04]: How do you know what this waking world is unreal?
[SPEAKER_04]: So the answers, there's a discussion that I will not go into it because the topic has not been discussed yet, but basically the answer will be that it's not true that the reality of the world is not an experience, it's just an argument, no, we do, if you actually investigate, if you do look at the nature of the world, you will see it is nothing
[SPEAKER_04]: It is an inexplicable appearance in consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no way you can prove the existence of anything apart from your awareness.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and to that we may add discoveries of modern science, of modern physics, particle physics, of mathematics, which talk about relativity theory, the uncertainty hypothesis, the incompleteness of code-goodles.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, what they talk about Maya,
[SPEAKER_04]: upon scientific and philosophical investigation also the nature of the world becomes very mysterious.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is not this hard common sense reality which we seem to face anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that is one part of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The next question is I will just mention that it is stop because already we have gone quite far.
[SPEAKER_04]: The next question which these two didn't ask is look I feel sort of cornered your arguments
[SPEAKER_04]: But you can't convince me that I am a liberated person.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't feel like one.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the question.
[SPEAKER_04]: See, you may say, I'm already the author.
[SPEAKER_04]: The moment I understand it and I admit it that, yes, I am the consciousness shining through mind and body, then I've got the knowledge already.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then, by all rights, I should be a free person, liberated.
[SPEAKER_04]: But somehow, I cannot honestly say I am a liberated person.
[SPEAKER_04]: I cannot say I am a Jeevan Mukta.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because the results are not there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You claim that, Rubin Shuddling, I shall go beyond all desires.
[SPEAKER_04]: For example.
[SPEAKER_04]: All there's a karma, yes, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here
[SPEAKER_04]: Adwaita never said that the desires will not be there in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: You understand yourself as Athman, exclude the mind and body from your idea of yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you have desires?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a desire for a cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where is the desire in the mind?
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe if I'm very desires, then in the tongue also.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I'm a coffee addict, then I'll get the tremors or something like that, and I'll, in the body also.
[SPEAKER_04]: But all of this, am I aware or not?
[SPEAKER_04]: That which is aware of this whole phenomenon of desiring a cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_04]: Does that have a desire for a cup of coffee?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you are that.
[SPEAKER_04]: What is your problem, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: the idea of a Upadhi, a crystal, colorless crystal, and a red flower.
[SPEAKER_04]: You take a red flower, a pink flower, and put it behind the crystal.
[SPEAKER_04]: When you look at the crystal, what will it look like?
[SPEAKER_04]: Pink.
[SPEAKER_04]: You put it here, and the pink flowers are there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Looks a pretty pink.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is the crystal pink?
[SPEAKER_04]: Does it look pink?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is like the crystal.
[SPEAKER_04]: When the desire here shines in this light, it seems that I am desirous.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't allow the desires in the mind to be superimposed on the, this is Chidatma, pure consciousness, you, the pure consciousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, how do you remove the desires?
[SPEAKER_04]: How do I get rid of the desires?
[SPEAKER_04]: The same question, how do I get rid of the pink color, which appears in the crystal?
[SPEAKER_04]: Rub it, we'd sign paper.
[SPEAKER_04]: Second, if you rub the crystal, will you lose the pink color?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Take the flower of it, can you give me?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, not even remove the flower.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you really need to remove the pink color?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, because there is no pink color in the crystal.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right?
[SPEAKER_04]: All you need to do is distinguish between the pink color which is in the flower, let it remain in the flower.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the, what's your problem?
[SPEAKER_04]: You want a colorless crystal, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Crystal is colorless even when it looks pink.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what Advaitha does.
[SPEAKER_04]: You must convince yourself you must see that the crystal is colorless even when it looks pink.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you try to remove the flower that's yoga, you're trying to get some body.
[SPEAKER_04]: you see the distinction.
[SPEAKER_04]: So follow-up question is so that can desires remain in the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have to be careful here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Desires will be there in the mind because the function of the mind is to think, to desire, to want, to remember, all of those are functions of the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: In lighten persons did their minds have desires?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did the Ottoman Brahman have desires?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: What disaster do they have?
[SPEAKER_04]: If Vivekananda wants to establish a Vedanta society in every city in the world, no harm.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because Vivekananda knows that he's suchidana in the Brahman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Suchidana in the Brahman has absolutely no interest in Vivekananda's societies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Vivekananda's societies are about suchidana in the Brahman, but Brahman has no interest in Vivekananda's societies.
[SPEAKER_04]: As Vivekananda, see, this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll leave you with this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Desires in the mind can remain as long as you know that they are not your desires.
[SPEAKER_04]: The effect will be the moment you realize that you are not the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: One interesting side effect on the mind will be lots of desires will subside.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I know I am the ever perfect purnam, ever perfect such you done on the mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't need anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the mind also will not generate desires.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then the desires which will come in the mind, they may come, they'll be either due to past tendencies or due to your desire to do, you know, even that's a desire to do good to the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: They become the data to all for the good of the world, has absolutely nothing to do for himself.
[SPEAKER_04]: He didn't want to do it, Ramakrishna made him do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ramakrishna said, you have to do mother's work, he said, I want to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's mother going to do to me?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm free.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm the Atman.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've already got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are at least scared.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I don't do mothers, mother might not give me the liberation, brim maghiana, whatever you call it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we can't have no problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was already liberated, so also.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Sri Ramakrishna laughed and said, your very bones will make you do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He later said, we are considering this country.
[SPEAKER_04]: He made me a slave to Kali to mother.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, desires will be there in the mind of a liberated person in your mind too, which are good desires, non-binding, they will not bind you to some sorrow, you know, which desires bind you, when you think by fulfilling this desire, I will be happy.
[SPEAKER_04]: I need this to complete me, no, Atman does not need the cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_04]: The body and mind may need it, but I am completely, I am perfectly all right with the cup of coffee without the cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_04]: These desires that will fill for some other purpose as a duty or as a welfare of the world as something as the role that I have to play, but for my own completion and satisfaction and peace absolutely nothing in the world is required because I am already complete.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am fulfilled, ever fulfilled, I require nothing from the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: From that point of view, if you cultivate some desires in the mind, you'll always be desires in Sanskrit, it's called Lokasangra, for the welfare of the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: All these saints and sages, they had the either had those desires, which were part of their daily work, whichever they were doing, or they were desires for the good of others, that had nothing to do for themselves.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, the Guru concludes by saying,
[SPEAKER_04]: you may in once this distinction is clear you may have the mind may have the desires literally says for 10 million objects none of them will have the slightest effect on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have a more desire than the rest of Manhattan combined.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll have no effect on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You'll be completely not bound, not touched by them.
[SPEAKER_04]: But even one desire with the idea that if I get this, I'll be better off.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I don't get this, I'll be miserable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you're pound.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're cut immediately.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's based on a false notion about yourself.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you see these Q&A wonderful Q&A.
[SPEAKER_04]: If one is already beginning to get a Dwighter, then these all of these questions make very good sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: Try it to this study Advaita.
[SPEAKER_04]: Study Advaita, you will get these questions.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are for the advanced student.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, this is not relevant to our topic today, but I introduce these because and I know these questions are going on in the minds.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I did not even complete this.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a few more things which the student asks and the guru tells.
[SPEAKER_04]: And finally, the guru gives a set of little bit of advice that this is how you actualize this knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there are three things that are both Mano Nāshya, Vasanakshya, and those disciplines will talk about them in time, where you, after you have understood, there are certain things you can do to make it real for yourself, very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shandeshandeshandeshandeshahari yoṁ tatsat śrīrama krasnara parnamasthu.