[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Megan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Sarah, we're two women in our forties who live in different states and have a lot of different interests between us.
[SPEAKER_01]: On this show, we talk about all the midlife lady leisure pursuits we're enjoying at the stage of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like travel, hobbies, food, wellness, style, and more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am really excited today, Megan, to chat about the kind of travel we're dreaming about at the stage of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also more generally, the kind of travel that midlife and even older people tend to gravitate toward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today's episode is brought to you by our exclusive season sponsor and a longtime partner of ours, Vionic Shoes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll speak in a travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely adore my Vionic walk, slim, glide sneakers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can look for that in the show notes for this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thanks to vionic for sponsoring this episode, and let's dive right into talking about our midlife travel fantasies.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I prepared a little bit more than usual today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am bringing you a kind of menu of sorts, Megan.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about five examples of leisure travel that I have noticed pop up quite a bit with people our age and let's be honest even older.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Megan that I spend quite a bit of time with my parents who are
[SPEAKER_00]: healthy and active and travel a lot and have the means and the time and the ability to do a lot of really cool travel.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've gotten to see some of these types of travel in action and what I want to know, you and I are going to go through these one at a time and listeners, we will provide links in the show notes of course, but I want to talk about whether or not these might make our own wish lists.
[SPEAKER_00]: and why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because travel is so personality dependent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to, um, I'm excited to get into this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we should start with the river cruise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like everyone's parents that you know, all of the, the older folks have done river cruises?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's everywhere the last since COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, like, in the last five or six years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't actually, but I just, well, I mean, I'm sure some of it is regional and like there's probably lots of reasons why I don't actually think that people I know's parents are okay, but I will say, since I started watching Doubt and Abby in 2012, I was dying to be 65 and up.
[SPEAKER_01]: so that I could go on a Viking river cruise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that I really- Oh, they advertised.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were the only advertiser because they're not ad-supported, but right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be like right at the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I think if you watch, like, basically anything masterpiece or sharing a lot of PBS shows, it would be like, explore?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Explore the rivers on a Viking river cruise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so anyway, I got very excited about being old.
[SPEAKER_01]: While watching that when I was very young, because that was quite some time ago, and then I just realized, like, actually, I don't have to be 65 to go into Viking river crews, I could go whenever I want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I somehow started getting their, um, their effort, like their catalogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get them like every two weeks, and it is the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I get is for some reason are alumni association, Brian and I both went to Northwestern, and I'm sure they have clocked that by this age, many of their alumni have a mast, enough money for some leisure travel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's these like alumni targeted.
[SPEAKER_00]: trips and tours.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, it's just they're slapping and alumni label on just another kind of luxury trip or tour, but it's not just river cruises, but there are a lot of river cruises.
[SPEAKER_00]: I honestly don't think I paid very close attention until more recently, but maybe for people who don't know what we're talking about, like obviously the big ocean cruises, we know what those are river cruises going to be a smaller vessel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you are, there's specific rivers all over the world, but specifically in central Europe, that lend themselves to sort of slowly meandering down a river on a luxury ship, and then getting off and stopping and seeing instead of like stopping in the Bahamas or whatever, you're getting off in Prague or Vienna.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll tell you what appeals to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I've never been to Europe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's something about getting to experience so much of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: all at once.
[SPEAKER_01]: That really appeals to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one I'm looking at now, we're not doing this year or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's definitely like on our radar to do in the next several years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one I'm looking at, you go down the Rhine River.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're seeing castles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you're seeing cities from the same river that people 400 years ago,
[SPEAKER_01]: Would have seen not the same city, but like some of the stuff is the same, which I think is really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have never had really any interest in an ocean cruise to be honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me neither.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's whatever Eric really likes cruises.
[SPEAKER_01]: He likes that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he likes the camaraderie and the feeling that you're just sort of on the boat and the only thing to do is just relax, which I don't hate that idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we don't have little kids that need to be entertained anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about like the party scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I like pools, that's nice, but I could also just go to a resort and use the pool soap for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The hassles that go along with like a cruise to the Bahamas and the relative cost to me just doesn't really feel I just don't care about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I've never been on one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I could be wrong, like maybe I'd go and be like, wow, this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the river cruise, I just feel like everywhere you look, you're gonna see
[SPEAKER_01]: cool scenery and you're gonna also have the chance to get off the boat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why it appeals to me and that is why every time I get the Viking little Viking catalog that they said not pretty often I pour over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel the same about ocean cruises I have not been and not not gonna yuck anybody's young but it doesn't I don't think it's for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also have the privilege
[SPEAKER_00]: I could see if you lived in a landlock place.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be, it's a relatively affordable way to really get ocean and sun and sea air.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, great, just not for me, not really interested in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also don't think the river cruises for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And really think, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't love the idea of, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: being so programmed of when to stop and start and I have a little bit of like maybe it's a control issue like those cities stopping in those cities would be amazing but I feel like I would feel limited by the amount of time and then I think there's a lot of things that are like you can choose from this or this tour you can go to this or this museum like I part of what I've loved about travel planning in the last decade or so
[SPEAKER_00]: is like DIYing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that for some people, the DIY is not fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, the DIY is fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm not saying I would, I would definitely rather do a river cruise than an ocean cruise, but this one is pretty low.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would be fine if I did my whole life and did not do a river cruise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also have a funny thing to share that my parents did a very nice one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put the link in their Megan so you can compare it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you've studied the
[SPEAKER_00]: The Viking route, this is the Rhine River, crews of they did one from Unile World, and they got, there had been a ton of rain, and the rivers rose so much that the ship could not pass under the right bridges, so it got stuck in Vienna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not, no, they weren't stuck in any kind of an uncomfortable way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they still had all their lovely accommodations.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just couldn't pass go past Vienna.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Vienna, I think, was only their first or second.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty early.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like day two or three.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the company, it sounds like, to the company's credit, they did a great job of pivoting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, they created day trips.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of getting off of Vienna for six hours or a day, they were in Vienna for like four days.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the company basically quickly pulled together like excursions and day trips beyond just what you would do if you were there for half a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they had an okay time, but they literally could not cruise the river.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, oh my gosh, Rose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so I want to address the thing that you said about why this wouldn't be for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am looking at this, they're very similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I figured it would be pretty similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a river.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the cities are all the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they look even like the way that they're themed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the classic Christmas markets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had some of the same on a sleigh hangups.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like thinking, I like to control my time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to travel plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to choose my own adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to, I don't know, like the adventure part of it, like is big for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in this case,
[SPEAKER_01]: what I'd probably do is add on it one under the other and yeah and maybe I would do maybe we're going to go to Europe and it's the only time I've been there in my life and I'm not going to probably go back next year maybe I would maybe we do like two weeks and a week of it is this cruise and then the week the following week is week
[SPEAKER_01]: we really dig into one specific area, that's just one way where you could do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you also do have some level of control where you can plan your own stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, then you're not getting the value that the, you're not fully leveraging, I guess, the value of the cruise, where they are setting those excursions at for you and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I definitely get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, there's something that's almost like,
[SPEAKER_01]: because I so often make things, I'm not going to say harder than they have to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's just be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I make things harder than they have to be because I so want to create every moment of experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something about just letting someone else do it for me that I feel like in some ways my
[SPEAKER_01]: which is like help me relax a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I relate to that in other, I can think of other examples where I relate to that deeply.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason, in this one, I resist it a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so crowds of verse and I'm so I'm always looking for like, when is no one else going to have this idea?
[SPEAKER_00]: When is like the off time to go?
[SPEAKER_00]: So something about cruises makes me think, no, everybody's going there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also live in a city where cruise ships docks sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not a huge cruise stop in Santa Barbara, but we do have them come through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see the way, okay, everybody gets off at the same time, and everybody is gonna choose from like, three wine tasting rooms, two museums.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something about like, now everyone is doing this, and I don't wanna do the thing everyone is doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd probably want to go in the dead of winter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, yeah, me and the hardiest old folk on the board in our, you know, park us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd have the most of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun to dream about and who knows, like, when we finally go to make our plans to travel and look at our budget, I might say, you know what, never mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather do something else, but you see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we're gonna move on.
[SPEAKER_00]: The next type of travel, I honestly just started hearing about this in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're calling this, the general category is a pilgrimage.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might even be better equipped to just give a high level explanation of what we're talking about when we say pilgrimage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I want you to look at this link that I've put in our show notes or in our show outline too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But how would you describe to the people what a sort of modern day leisure travel pilgrimage would be?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these have become, they're all over some stack right now, but I just internet people in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: The ones I've seen have been a little more explicitly, at least religion adjacent than maybe some of the ones that, okay, so I just clicked on this common ground pilgrimages website that you linked in our outline, and this is really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm, whereas I think the ones I've come across have been more around like, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: saints or okay, let's go do the walk that a saint would have done or like literally a pilgrimage that would have been done by monks or nuns, you know it's like there's those tend to be the ones I've been exposed to tend to be a little more explicitly religious I guess but an idea of a pilgrimage
[SPEAKER_01]: It's symbolic, you know, you're walking the walk someone else either really did or you're putting yourself in their shoes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you're really like immersing yourself in this experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you, how you look at it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's about right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely about, well, so first of all, whether it's religious or non-religious, the all the ones I've seen have a very specific theme or intention,
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's signing up for them is very aligned around that theme or intention.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like you said, common ground pilgrimages does sort of literary ones where you are reading Jane Austen while walking through
[SPEAKER_00]: the town and surrounding areas that she would have walked.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're probably communing with your fellow travelers in a little bit more intimate way than you would be if you just were on a cruise with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, everyone is signing on for a personal, I would say there's a, whether it's religious or not, there's a personal development and a sort of like soul element to a pilgrimage that you would be definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were on some sort of a spiritual.
[SPEAKER_01]: that's what makes it a pilgrimage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: The themes are like the things that help connect the people to the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much right now that I think is really interesting around place-based.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Experiences in general that there's a lot of benefits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just to give you an example of that common ground pilgrimages does one based on Taylor Swift lyrics.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: about like a mercing and that one is like in New England in November or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very like mood and like you said place based sort of self exploration by totally immersing yourself in a in a world.
[SPEAKER_00]: tish oxen writer who's a writer and podcaster that we've been connected to on the internet for a never billion years she leads pilgrimages that are she's Catholic and hers are lightly lightly religious but open to all and are all over the world and they are again they're themed but like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost more about the connections and you are communing with the people you're walking with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's what I'm trying to, that's an element that the river cruise is not going to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think Titches is actually one that came to my mind, too, is one that feels explicitly religious, but you don't have to be explicitly religious either one to enjoy and benefit from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that it's been built around
[SPEAKER_01]: going to see cathedrals or going to see this holy wells or whatever these things are and maybe you're also going to have bear and whiskey because you know you're in Scotland or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost like the theme has been narrowed.
[SPEAKER_00]: so vocally that it's going to include the people who really want that and exclude the people who aren't into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's almost this like very, I actually, if I'm not hinting it, I am all for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would totally do a pilgrimage of some kind because I really like how focused they are and how
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear the the intention is from the beginning like that to me feels like it could be really a very special thing to do with a friend or by yourself like joining this group So I'm new to the concept, but as a what I do this in midlife or later life one thousand percent yes
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I follow an author, um, named Sharon Blacky.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's got a sub-stack that I really like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember you leading to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she, um, does a lot of work and writing around fairy tales and mythology and who need them in, and I see does something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that she describes it as a pilgrimage, but it's something and I believe Northern Ireland, you know, some beautiful place, and
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all around like myth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it would kind of fall under this same.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, I think it is that focus that makes it a pilgrimage.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be totally in on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little part of me that gets nervous when I know that I'm going to be stuck in a group with people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to have talked to them a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I get over it so fast because I actually really like connecting with people and I really like getting to know new people and But I always have like stage fright about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like a little part of me that's like gets nervous about it and then knows it would probably be great
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree and I feel that same thing too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you'd be able to tell from the materials, from the website and the videos and the reviews.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you'd be able to find a trip like this that you would at least have a pretty high degree of confidence that it was gonna be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And something about that narrow focus, like I said, is going to select for people
[SPEAKER_00]: who would probably be awesome because they'd be interested in the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a funny movie called A Real Pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: It came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was nominated for an Academy Award this time last year, so it's a little over your old, and it's Jesse Eisenberg wrote it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is about these two cousins who go to a Holocaust era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are they?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they in?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm now I'm forgetting what part of Europe, but they...
[SPEAKER_00]: um it's a very it they're there for a very somber reason but the movie is quite real and funny and part of it is about that thing of showing up and realizing that you're spending the next five days with these other ten people you've never met and everyone is kind of there for their own sort of complicated and and kind of difficult reason and there's a lot of there's it's a really really well done movie
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, it's a risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a risk but that do that travel is a risk all travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Okay, well this next one I think it's kind of like a Elements of the first two we've discussed, but it's its own thing and this would be the guided long walk or bike ride my parents have done
[SPEAKER_00]: At least two trips one in Europe and one in the US that were with a group of, I don't know, 12 people, something like that, other couples and there's were guided bike trips where they were going a certain number of miles per day and they were seeing different sites and meeting up as a group and then my friend Sarah did one that was a walking hut to hike in the Dolomites and I feel like these are just two examples, but I feel like this general category is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You are using your outside moving your body either walking or biking or hiking, but you have again similar to the pilgrimage, maybe less themed or less focused, but you've you've turned your your itinerary over to a guide because they know they know the way and they're going to they're going to show you where the food is in Sarah's hut to hut.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hike, it was a very physically strenuous, but every night they knew they had a bed, so they didn't have to pack their bedding.
[SPEAKER_00]: They only had to pack lunches and snacks, and they knew they would have a hot meal and a bed and a shower when they got to the next hut.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very big category, and I feel like I could definitely get into at least one of these types of trips.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my sister and her husband did a walking tour of the Cotswolds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, oh, fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Years ago, and loved it, talked about how they'd be walking down the street, and there would be sheep just like, because everything there is like all, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody has right to all the plant.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Walk across any piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mixed use or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, shared use.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they would just be walking and they'd have to cross these pastures that would be like, they're because and cheap, like, right in the middle and they just thought that was so cool and so different from the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, this is like the opposite to me of the river cruise in that we're
[SPEAKER_01]: You can only go so fast on foot or even on bicycle, so I'm seeing less, but I'm seeing it much more up close and I'm seeing it at a foot pace, which I also love so it's like almost just as appealing to me as
[SPEAKER_01]: as the river occurs for totally different reasons and I'm all in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to support this.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think at some point I will.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bike one makes me just a little nervous that I would hate the biking part, even though I actually do really enjoy riding a bike.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sort of enjoy taking a very leisurely pace on a bike.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a couple of years since I've gone in a longer bike ride and I feel like I'd have to train for it in a way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were e-bikes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, so you had a little e-bike support.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet when backwards started, it wasn't all e-bikes, but, and I think my parents did not use, they didn't just zip around motorcycle style, like you see on e-bikes, but there is that pedal support if you need it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think these are meant for retired people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think most of them, the one I linked to in our show notes, my parents did Savannah, or Charleston to Savannah, pretty recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe you don't have a kayaking?
[SPEAKER_01]: Component as well, because this link says there's a guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I linked to the exact one that they did, but I'd have to double check and backwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is a really well known organization that does really, really good trips.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm adding this to my list too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've, so you present to me with a menu and so far I've, I want all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's let's do two more quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: This next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is another big category.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm calling it go someplace to learn almost like a creative residency.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to list out some examples and you can probably think of some.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's say you decided you wanted to go to cooking school in Italy and you spend a week learning to make pasta and pizza.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the same place, but very immersed.
[SPEAKER_00]: A language immersion program.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's places where you can go practice your Spanish and like be with other people learning the language.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be something like a yoga or spiritual retreat, but in a kind of extended format.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, the focus is narrow, but less of a pilgrimage and more of a little creative residency or a little study for yourself with a skill or a new,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, a skill or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this sounds fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it feels so narrow to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost would wonder if I would feel like I was missing out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I should be out there seeing the sights or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just cooking pasta all day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I've actually considered for literally two decades now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Going to a place called Crippaloo in, maybe it's Crippaloo.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somewhere in the East Coast, like maybe Massachusetts, and it is a yogurt retreat.
[SPEAKER_01]: My sister and I literally have been talking about going to this since probably 2002.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just haven't made it yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we got to get on that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can you like go and stay in
[SPEAKER_01]: The accommodations range from like dormitory style, if you're on a super budget, to a little bit less Spartan private room, but still very simple, and you basically get to create your own retreat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some are themed, but like you could just go there and stay for three or four days and just choose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today I'm going to go to this class, in this class, in this class, like, or I'm gonna go walk on the grounds or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, something about that is so appealing to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one, like cooking school or something like that, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like if it was something I really, really wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, but maybe those just, I haven't heard the other thing I would really want to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how you would feel about a silent retreat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I could do a silent retreat for
[SPEAKER_00]: an amount of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I would like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I hear is that it doesn't really get good until you've been doing it for a couple of days.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can do three or four days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you were saying 21 days or something, I don't know what that would be like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Come out your head would be shaved and yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's something about that that sounds really hard and so it makes me want to try it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this one is a it depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would very much depend what is the activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree and I think it might also appeal to people who have done enough traditional tourism and leisure travel that they're ready for something that is like a little bit different because we've been talking about you on the river cruise you can see a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: This like your sort of
[SPEAKER_00]: setting aside traditional tourism, like you're not going to go out to restaurants and go to museums.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even with the pilgrimages and the walks, you're seeing quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a little bit more of like, nope, I'm not going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to focus on this particular experience or skill.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if that appeals.
[SPEAKER_00]: to certain types of people, or people who've just done enough travel, that they're like, yeah, I've done the, I've done the museums and castles thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready for something different.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not all the purpose, the purpose isn't, maybe, isn't travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, like, I've gone to writer retreats as an example, that are in beautiful places, but you're not there to see the place, the purpose of the trip is to to write or to learn and to immerse yourself in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, you almost don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: but what you're missing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because that wasn't the point.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be kind of hard if it was placed in the middle of Paris or something and I'd never bought Paris and I'd be like, yeah, huh, what are what's up?
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have without there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be dope.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I've just been watercoloring in this raretic Garrett for that six days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm definitely not a no for this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, yeah, finding the right one for for you would be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then the last one is
[SPEAKER_00]: I put the safari, because I know so many people who have either wanted their whole lives to see Africa and the big animals, but I think there could be a few other versions of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just call it a big adventure experience, maybe wildlife or wild nature centered.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of how I feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's what I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love me some nature.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually choose a lot of nature focused travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, the kind of nature focused travel I like is to go hike through the woods in a place that feels, I don't know, like it could be anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's maybe the woods where I am or maybe it's a little further north or maybe I'd hit a mountainous area or whatever,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about deep sea diving.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care about safaris.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, would it be amazing probably?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel almost bad saying that, but like, no part of me, that badly wants to get up close to elephants, tigers, lions, whales, dolphins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much any of those, like I just don't care enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that I wouldn't think it was worth doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, of all the things I could do, those, it doesn't rank very high.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I'm pretty much like circling right around the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I am so impressed by nature and as are you and the animals that we've like sort of grown up making almost mythical or mystical,
[SPEAKER_00]: because we don't have them except for sadly in a zoo here and there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have heard anecdotally that it is a very humbling experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same would be true for whales and certain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to see Orcas.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I've seen a lot of whales and dolphins, but I would really like it my life to see Orcas.
[SPEAKER_00]: setting that aside.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know if for me the distance, the expense, the hassle, the physical discomfort of like heat and bugs and like I, that is, doesn't hold that sort of adventure.
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't hold as much romance for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just don't know if the pros, if the attraction is strong enough to outweigh those other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, if it popped up as an opportunity, I think I would do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think there would be some really cool parts about it, but it's not high on the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess kind of see you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to poo poo it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just...
[SPEAKER_01]: When I looked at, when I've watched, let's say a movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lion King, let's start there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, wow, those animals, those cartoon animals, because that's a terrible example.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the real versions of those cartoon animals would be so amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where it stops for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't ever, then, go, I need to go find them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm okay with them living in my imagination in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: That I don't feel the same pull as I do
[SPEAKER_01]: the very common place here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just like it's that lack of connection to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it just makes it less interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a very popular one and I've mostly heard very good things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like since I've shared my parents' experience at for all of these, I have to have to be consistent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my parents went on an African Safari couple two and a half, three years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my dad had a blood clot, like on day two and had to actually be airlifted to a hospital in
[SPEAKER_00]: Nairobi?
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty sure it was Nairobi, or what's the capital of Tanzania?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and anyway, he got the reason I wanted to specifically mention this city is he got incredible medical care and had nothing but wonderful things to say about both the the medical evacuation and then also the hospital care that he got was incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So nothing about that was like, oh a medical emergency.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're still have
[SPEAKER_01]: from home and have something like that happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think they saw, and my mom went with him initially, and then he stabilized so quickly with meds, but he was just wasn't allowed to fly for like two weeks, but he was doing so well, otherwise that my mom after like a day and a half or two, my mom was actually able to go back and join the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she was able to finish the Safari experience, but that was that was their wild adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and Sarah, maybe in 30 years, we'll feel differently, and we'll be like, uh, we've exhausted all.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done all the rough pilgrimages, all the pilgrimages and the retreats and the, you know, walking tours and biking tours and river crews and all of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's left?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, this was so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have, it's been a little while since I've planned a bigger trip, so I, I feel the itch coming and I know you are planning some travel this summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this was more of a future dreaming episode, but um, very fun to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just to remind to everyone you can find our expanded episode story with photos and links on Substack at midlifeladyleisurepresuits.substack.com and that is also where you'll find the special page we've set up with our favorite vionic styles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Use the promo code midlife at vionicshoes.com for 15% off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for being here and we'll talk to you soon.