[SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Mastering Rod Building podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Bill Faulkner, and I say every week, every episode, how excited I am to have my guest.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this one's a little bit special.
[SPEAKER_01]: This, my guest today and what we're going to talk about and what we're going to spend all of the next week doing together is literally a 30-year dream for me personally as a rod builder that's finally coming true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So please allow me to welcome to the Mastering Rod Building podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Master Bamboo Rod Builder and Master in Graver Bill Oyster.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you know anything at all about modern Bamboo Flyrods, then you've undoubtedly Bill's name is not,
[SPEAKER_01]: is one that you've heard before.
[SPEAKER_01]: He runs oyster bamboo fly rods along with his team in Blue Ridge, Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been building bamboo rods for 27 years and unlike so many of us that love to build rods and we're trying to find a way to make it full time and make it work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill sort of was too good at his job and got drug into it full time almost accidently, which is a good problem to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm safe saying that Bill and his team have taught more people how to build bamboo rods then probably everybody else in the world combined and I know that seems like a bold claim but when you hear when we talk about the class schedule and sort of how they do things not only has he done a volume of instruction and given back to the community and sort of teaching and sustaining a craft but he's also been commissioned to build rods for presidents
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, he's a master in Graver, truly one of the most artisanal and master craftsmen within this space of our time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please welcome Bill Oyster, Bill welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me Bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I am so excited to have you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to I have to tell you this story and I'll try to keep it really quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I built my first rod and I remember it well in May of 1995 and it was I just graduated from college and it was a I bought a whole kit from Cabellas right and it had the Flex code equipment the rapper hand rapper and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: had some schools of thread, had the finish, had the epoxy adhesive, had the brushes, said, you know, all the things you needed in the blank and the grips and the guides and everything else like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I literally had been a fly tire my whole life and it furled leaders and tied leaders and made lures and was just always into tackle craft and a friend of mine said, hey, you ought to build a you ought to build a
[SPEAKER_01]: fly rod and I was like I should build a fly rod right so I just tried it and at that time I was going to I love all kinds of fishing everywhere every time and everybody should fish the way they want whatever makes them happy um but fly fishing is special to me and I went to a period of about 10 years when I didn't do anything but fly fish salt water fresh water warm water cold water that's all I wanted to do and and I got real serious about it
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started trying to build higher and higher in fly rods and so I ended up finding a couple of guys because I wanted really nice jewelry grade nickel silver hardware and I wanted gorgeous agate guides which were actually harder to find 25 years ago than they are now right and I ended up working with some guys I met this guy named Russ gold, Russ gooding at gold.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, really just trying to get some vintage high-end gorgeous seat hardware and then I met another Bob Vanerey in the cat skills and he and I found this kind of bamboo scene that I didn't really Realize that this culture of subculture this community was out there and was actually thriving and well And I sort of got to him because I was just looking for really high-end appointments for these fly rods, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: and
[SPEAKER_01]: And I ended up having several conversations with us, several conversations with Bob Venerier about building bamboo rods and I ended up buying the books at the time and it may still be true.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were two books, the lovely read by Jack Howell and the fundamentals of building a bamboo fly rod by more and Elsa and I read those things cover to cover multiple times and I got my shopping list and I was like, I'm going to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time I was in my late 20s and my wife and I were both working and trying to save money and buy our first house and trying to start a family and and literally I just couldn't afford it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I that the initial investment and equipment kept me from doing it and I've always that that bug has never gone away from me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always wanted to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as we sit here we're recording on Wednesday, December 3rd.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly when this is going to air and I'm one of 10 students.
[SPEAKER_01]: along with my director of sales, Aaron Lowe, A.A. Ron, in the class that starts this coming Sunday in Bluridge.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought it would be fun to have Bill on talk about what he does, which is remarkable.
[SPEAKER_01]: He and his team and then take the class and be able to come back and do a post episode and talk about what we learned and the experience and what makes it neat.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like if I had known, if you had had these classes back then, I probably could have afforded to take a class,
[SPEAKER_01]: all the planning forms and all that well you know it's it's quite a bit to get a commitment it's huge commitment and I just and I was interested but it was also I had to I just couldn't afford it you know and so I'm so excited that this opportunity is there and and it's literally been I've been talking about coming to take one of these classes for more than 10 years and my sales guy Aaron has also been wanting to do it and so about two years ago
[SPEAKER_01]: We said, look, let's just pay our deposit.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're never going to find the right time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're never going to be able to make this happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's pay our deposit and lock ourselves in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll, you know, we'll find a date that we could do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Cassie called us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know earlier this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, you know, you're deposit, but the end this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have that many spots.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, oh, shoot.
[SPEAKER_01]: What have you got?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we just so it worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: We trapped ourselves and we got ourselves into the class.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're doing it next week and we're super, super excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: How in the world and thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're so busy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got so many balls in the air and you got so much going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being generous with your time and being willing to appear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk to me about how you got into this in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Were you building other types of rod before Van Boehler?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it just Van Boehler?
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, there's always a great story
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so it's a long winding road for me to end up here also this was never
[SPEAKER_00]: This was never really my intention.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, I like tell people, you know, it's, it's, uh, people who ask me with the classes, they're like, well, how do you keep from just training all your competition?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I explain that anybody that is smart enough and successful enough to get a week of time and the money that it takes and come and spend it in our class.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's smart enough to know a bad business ideal when they see one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They wouldn't have made it to this point, so it's not very hard to offend people off, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the time, we have similar kind of stories.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in my 20s and I didn't have a penny.
[SPEAKER_00]: That nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I don't know if you know any of my history, but I bounced around colleges.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went to Georgia Tech University of Florida University of Georgia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a bicycle racer back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and who turned pro and I didn't have time for college anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've always had strange passionate low paying jobs.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a knack for that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, so that was my comfort space.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and then what happened actually was flyfishing was my release from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was non-competitive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was non-stressful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't physically painful.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the cold water felt great on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet on your legs, you know, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was my escape.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, um, but I was planning to do that for years to come and, uh, had a bad accident, uh, and busted myself up pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so all this sudden, I was, I had nothing left, but fly fishing, and I'm trying to figure out how to pay the bills.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, which I never put two and two together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never considered, uh, that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also spending all my time flourishing when I should have been out trying to find a way to pay the bills So right and so I'm trying to work for money like I'm trying to find like my wife's family Did real estate and banking more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'm like and they you know Given me opportunities and I but I was just terrible at because I had no interest in you
[SPEAKER_00]: saying that you know, and I wasn't used to working hard at something that I didn't care about, just for the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a slog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the way 99% of people around the world are doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But only because I was so young and dumb and full of energy and coming off the bike race and thing where it's all a passion sport like 90.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody in this country was making any money racing bicycles in the 80s and 90s, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, anyway, so I tried to motivate myself for money and just couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, I just was like, it just didn't work for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was nothing financially that could inspire me enough to get out there and do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, while I'm trying to do that, trying to find a way to motivate myself on that, I...
[SPEAKER_00]: Was spending all my free time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was I was guiding.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was teaching fly tying lessons.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was teaching casting lessons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Were you in Georgia at the time?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in Georgia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I grew up as a kid in Wyoming.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where I was Okay, I introduced to fly fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of where the idea came in, you know, and then of course the river runs through it generation, you know, Yeah, that exploded the end of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a kid growing up, huge fishermen always, like, nobody in my family had any interest in fishing whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big horse family.
[SPEAKER_00]: They love the horses and all both my parents and my sisters competed in it and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I love fishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were the rebel on bicycle wheels fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would ride my bicycle down the dirt road and fish and anybody's water that I could find right and and that's for forgiveness later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but then when I kind of discovered that fly fishing around college and agent, that's really really inspired me for fishing in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but but with the rod making so I was basically just on everything in the fly fishing I had all this time in energy and on the side was looking for a way to make a living.
[SPEAKER_00]: the I always loved the idea of the bamboo fly rod because my final major in college with studio art was going to ask you what you studied yeah it was a aerospace engineering at Georgia as I say had to be engineering at that and had to start engineering at that and then a university of Florida was English and philosophy.
[SPEAKER_00]: for three years there that works your English is excellent congratulations you're very fluent thank you it says if it's my first language so but yeah and then when I got to University of Georgia then I switched to studio art which is because that was really my interest and it has been good for me
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but even though it seemed like a terrible way to make a living.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but that's a passion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Passing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what I discovered was, yeah, for me, I was always better off following my passion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the money will come.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of the bills will pay themselves if you work hard enough at what you're passionate about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, for me, that's why it worked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even though I tried to do it the other way, the most people do, you know, do your passion on the weekends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just terrible at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it didn't matter the opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I just couldn't make myself get out of bed for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've ride making came along with, um, I was interested in buying a bamboo rod because.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'd read all the John Gear Act books.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just the philosophy behind it in the artistry of it and the craft.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I loved handmade things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love making things and I love art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my philosophical nature just really dug it, you know, but I had never fished a bamboo rod in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought they were awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Truly alert with the romantic news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a romance of the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, as I'm trying to educate myself, said that I could find one used old cheap one that I could buy to have something to fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I came across a book called The Master's Guide to Building Bamboo Flyrod.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't have that one, I don't think.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what Bamboo Rod Makers called the Bible, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about that thick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has like 60 pages of calculus equations in it, uh, tip impact factors, engineer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm pretty sure it was written to discourage anyone from ever attempting to build their own bamboo.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure that was the actual goal of the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's
[SPEAKER_00]: right so much and so complex but it's just really captured my imagination yeah so i started looking for more books on the subject and i i was able to find five books okay um from like the early 1900s through like the George Mara book yeah and pulls and uh and i literally read uh
[SPEAKER_00]: all of them covered a covered twice before I got up the nerve to spend the money to buy a handful of sticks of bamboo from the Democrats company, which was an existence back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once that bamboo showed up, I was like, because I had no money and no business doing this, I was like, now you're committed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you're good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do better make it
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I tried.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried.
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked for classes and things and there was nothing anywhere near me and there was really much of anything period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm non-blowvel in up in Maine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I had a class.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, um, and um, but he was all the way up in Maine because I had no money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, if I go there, I take this class.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will come home flat broke.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't afford a planning form, uh, anything else, you know, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I went down to the fishhawk in Atlanta, which is run the big out well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been the talk to Gary Merum and the owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, anybody that knows anything about how to make these things because I was just really intrigued with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he, he'd give me a phone number.
[SPEAKER_00]: We call up a guy in the shop and he'd, and, uh, he'd say, uh, you know, old Jim there, he's been messing with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I called Jim and he was like, yeah, come to the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go to his house.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd made it about a fifth of the way into the process before he gave up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but I buy a book from him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I buy a tool from him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We chat and he'd say, oh, but you should visit old Jerry.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a real master.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go to Jerry's house.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'd made it halfway through the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gave up, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I literally couldn't find a single person who had completed a rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Georgia's Georgia's an interesting place to be trying to do this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there is actually a wonderful trout fishing scene in North Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people outside the region don't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not like you're in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like a historical hotbed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people don't think bamboo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, there's a couple of places where there were pockets of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Georgia was not one of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were like, I lived in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I lived in Georgia for a long time and did not realize they were trout injured.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, you wouldn't right if you had gone and fish the squee or gone and fish You know some of these rivers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, North Georgia is a completely different animal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you step up into the Appalachian Mountains It's crystal clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have 4,000 miles of trout streams just in the northern tip of Georgia appear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep So and a lot of it's good
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we also got a good and these the TVA was kind enough to build these dams which made these amazing tailwater fisheries and everything in Arkansas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, not as many world records out of Georgia to put it on the map.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only difference really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we've got in where I live now in Blue Ridge.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Eastern Tennessee, Western North Carolina and North Georgia meet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Within an hour of a lot of trout fishing and then the real key the reason why people are like I can't believe you didn't take your business out to Colorado or what now I I lived in Northwest Wyoming just not far from Yellowstone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know what it's like out there I know but I also know what the winters are like out there I know what it's like to get to try to have clients get through the airport and drive to your place at that time of year Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I've got spectators here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a price of being famous.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been a prophet in your own land, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard thing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so anyway, but the nice thing too, biggest things here is we can catch child in the morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can hitch up the flat boat and in the afternoon
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's toast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really an amazing and very unique as far as black-fishing opportunities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always talk to people about like the four to six-hour drive radius of where you live.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean and what can you capture?
[SPEAKER_01]: And really, where you are, you can get to really good skiing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've gotten really good fishing of all varieties and clearly because I mean it's kind of a good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't have to deal with Atlanta.
[SPEAKER_00]: But unless you want to, unless you want to, like we've got that Atlanta airport there, you can fly direct from anywhere in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: People come to our classes 12 months a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can fly direct in.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can have a car service pick them up at the airport.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring them up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay on site to never even make a rental car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the first ride you built?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was assuming you were going to say some old guy took you into a shop and taught you like you really did this completely by yourself from the books This is not to be and look a lot of us as rod builders did this, but I'm telling you This is a different animal than wrapping some guides and gluing a handle and a seat Yeah, but a carbon fiber rod and I'm not being just this is of those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a totally different order of magnitude Yeah, what did you build for your very first ride?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so yeah, to complete that
[SPEAKER_00]: that story so what happened was the uh... so i started on on that first rod right and uh... and uh... it was a small stream right at the time i i young energetic guy i was spent a lot of time uh... uh... hike in and camp in and hit in these small wild trout streams and so i've been a little seven foot three four eight perfect
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... bait and old pain tapers and that's what i love to do but it's the second i had built that that's the only rod i fish i had to dozen graphite rods because i was a hard core fly fish right i guess i was heavy heavy into it
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but when I completed that first raw, which took me six months, all my spare time, all my energy, uh, just learning out of books, trial and error, and there was no one book or anybody's method I followed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried everything I'd heard of, everything I could find, um, which I think has really been a real benefit for me these days because, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: When students come to me now and they're like, well, what about this and what about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I read in this book this or I told me you should do it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've tried everything I've ever heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried experience and then I choose based on experience, which how to find my own system.
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, that's the only way to know, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's true of even more modern equipment like I try to tell people all the time people like where do I put my guy you know what if you will take a roll of mask and tape and that rod and your guys And goes spend 30 minutes on your lawn you're gonna learn more and that 30 minutes and would 10,000 hours in a chat room or send an e-mails are trying to get someone to give you the answer
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's value to experiential learning, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You experience what not to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: That really gives you a lot of things in what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So six months all my free time putting together.
[SPEAKER_00]: the worst-looking worst-casting roster ever made, but I, but I told myself from meeting those people who had who had tried and failed and you heard this all the time when I was researching so many people would tell, I was like no matter what, I'm going to complete it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be that, but it will be by God finish it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will catch a fish on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was the way to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's honestly, it's a big struggle with people interested in this because it tends to draw perfectionist.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah like myself but i'm a perfectionist but also a realist yeah so that's what you have to be because of balance there yeah to this day i i don't believe that more rods come out of our shop than anywhere in the world that i'm familiar with
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've never made a perfect project and I'll let you know if it ever happens right, but But I'm pretty sure it never will.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just you know degrees of improvement right maybe better than it was before But there's no such thing as perfect and maybe imperceptible to anyone other than an absolute master It's a fifth decimal place, but yeah exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's
[SPEAKER_00]: But the second you can't see or flaws, you will never improve as soon as you think you've done it that means you're done that means you Right, and you can no longer see your errors, which means you will never be able to improve any more from where you're at right
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we don't do that as a bad thing if no, yeah, and I there's so much to learn from someone who's considered a global master in his craft and he's saying I've never built a perfect one like else you'd all pay attention to that it's the process and the pursuit and the striving to constantly get better right like that's important is anything that's really is the journey not the destination we never arrive
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then it expanded.
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you go next from there and how long were you building before you started the classes?
[SPEAKER_01]: How long have you been doing the classes?
[SPEAKER_01]: And if those of you are not watching bills having a glass of beer, which I love, that's like, I'm so jealous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should have poured one for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, as you'll see, it's your class next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got the beer tap right there in the middle of the shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes those days go by better or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I bet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's see.
[SPEAKER_00]: So where to go from there and how do we end up with the classes?
[SPEAKER_00]: So from there is a little bit of story because again, this was purely hobby, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a couple of friends who were who I fished west who were trying to build a name in the industry, not a bamboo, but just fly fishing in general, which I thought was ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, there's no fly fishing industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, like focus on fishing, put your camera down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but because I was so heavily involved in it, once I made that one rod, word started to spread fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I knew all the people in the industry in my area anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I would get a trade shows and tie flies just as an exhibitor, just for fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a fly time company.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just somebody would shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, would you come and do this for us or would you come and teach our rod or casting classes or whatever and because it had to do with fly fishing I was like, yeah, well, so so then when I started making these rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: word started to spread and one of my buddies was a guide and the land a paper had come and written an article on him previously in his fly fishing guiding okay uh names Henry Cowan and okay I have a fish with Henry I don't know Henry I know so I'm a big striper big striper guy okay and we used to live over by Lake Lanier and we would striper fish three days a week
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he ended up doing it for guide work and was really into that scene and knew everybody and so this writer contacted him and said you know any other interesting stories up there and he's like well I got a buddy who's making bamboo fly rods which back then like it's so much more common now than back but it's still not common.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, still still a very rare, but at the time I said there was the classes like I do there was no such thing there was very small and people would yeah they would have get together as they would do a little class or whatever but it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: really, really niche.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so he was like, yeah, that sounds like interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he called and said, can I come up talk to you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, so he came spent the day with me took a bunch of pictures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't think of thing of it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: About three months later, I wake up on a Sunday morning, this back when we had answering machines.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my answer machine was just lit up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said I assume of course that somebody died.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some horrible happen right.
[SPEAKER_00]: 7 a.m. My phone is lit up on a Sunday morning with all these something terrible has happened, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, hey, this is so and so and I want to order an eight foot five wage and I was like, what are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another one and then another one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was like eight messages of people wanting to purchase bamboo rods from me and I was like, what on earth?
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a good day, Bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that now, but at the time I took down all their names and numbers so that I could call them back and explain to them that I couldn't do this for them because I wasn't a professional bamboo rod maker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was just doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: like for fun and sometimes I had sold a few but I was wasn't something I had time to get into like on any big basis and I didn't even know if I could make them happy you know right sure and and so I'm literally sitting there with the numbers in my hand and the phone and the other hand and little faintest little lightball appears above the head and I was like you know this is
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a door has been opened and you either take those opportunities or you don't And I'm the rest of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll struggle my way through it If it goes horribly at least I'll know
[SPEAKER_00]: And I won't have to wonder what if.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll never make another rod for money again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I struggled my way through his rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me like over a year to make those handful of rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by the time I got those six or eight rods done in the meantime, another 10 or 12 orders had trickled in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I got those 10 or 12 done and then another 20 or 30 had trickled in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And each time you're adding some more planning forms and some more weeks and ten tries and why I'm getting a little quicker.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm getting better at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: More and and then I'm like, so I guess this tipping point where I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I either have to stop doing this because it's taking up all my time or I've got to really make this marketing, just see if this will become a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just did a few trade shows and really gave a little push.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got, and I got to the point where I had a four-year wait list.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just me which and I was selling them at the typical going rate of the time, which is a two-grain
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I was working seven days a week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was working till two, three in the morning for seven days a week clients want to know where the rods were.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'd been waiting, you know, and I told him as a four-year-old man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were not fishing at all, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was my fishing was basically gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I finally sat down and I did the math on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I will never make a middle class income on this like this, which I thought was what the goal was.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a big long weight list.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're selling it at the typical rate.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've made it your successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't making any money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, I was too meticulous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was too slow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent too much time on the details I wanted to make an affordable ride because I didn't have any money I thought it'd be cool if you could make a ride that people could Right for more accessible so much labor in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, I wanted to be more for the fisherman You know, not just the collector because that's who I was, you know, right sure But I found out that was not mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was not me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was a meticulous artist
[SPEAKER_00]: fisherman, and I wanted everything to be exact, and it was not average going rates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, finally, I was like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to just do what I do best, and just hope to God somebody's willing to pay for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe they are maybe they aren't, but it does not work me doing it the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I quit trying to be fast, I quit trying to be cheap, and I just started doing what I do, what fit with me naturally, which it turned out that the higher end was just my natural right where you want to be?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: and and and that and then it started to turn into something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the classes to answer that part of your question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was also not a genius invention of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was I would get when I was trying to discover, I would talk to people and
[SPEAKER_00]: I found, and I know there are lots of people out there who are very forthcoming and share and there were groups stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was none around me.
[SPEAKER_00]: People that I could find who would talk, didn't know what they were talking about, or the people who knew were not sharing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were keeping it very, they were ready to take it to the grave with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was working very much in isolation down here by myself and based on the
[SPEAKER_00]: the books where they would say sand until your varnish is perfectly smooth and I was like I can't get my perfectly smooth my rod suck you know, but I didn't realize how they stood up relative to others I just relative to the ideal was something I had to work off of sure yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: But with the class, with the classes, what happened was I started getting calls and people asking me things or at trade shows, where what foreign is to use, what do you do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way I learned was, that's proprietary, like, you know, I can't tell you that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm rather not saying, and I tried that, and it just felt bad to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Aston, it's like, it's, it's, and granted it took me a long time to figure these things out, but now to just turn away someone who's interested in it, it just felt bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, there's gotta be a way to stay in business, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: but also share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had people pressing me hard for to teach them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so finally I was just like, you know what, come to the house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll charge you the local guys, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll charge you like I was making it for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be there doing it anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll show you what to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did a few like that and it got them through the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I saw the time it took me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could have made three or four on my own.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, okay, we're going to have to have three or four guys to make this make any sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't just do one on one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was, uh, I mean, I just didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, I was better off just building rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got a group of names.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it was like, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it just come over.
[SPEAKER_00]: These guys were coming after work every Tuesday and Thursday.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were all local guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I realized they're having such a good time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure it was their goal to stretch it on forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they would just come drink beer, take flat beer, flat rods, I was like, we're gonna be doing this for years before we ever get you guys through your flat rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we have to consolidate this to a given time frame.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: So literally the whole thing I just figured it out bit by bit, piece by piece, what work, what didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: The classes, then the demand increased and the numbers of students had to increase.
[SPEAKER_00]: The buildings had to get bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got it through five different flash-ups, or rod shops now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did own a flash-hop at 1.2.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole other story.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so it's literally the sort of thing that I've just pieced it together based on what works, what doesn't work, what makes our customers happy, what makes them less happy and I just always listen to our customers, that's how I knew they had to complete the rod in the class, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to go home with the done because then life gets in the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you're Jim and Jerry as you were calling who never finished, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah yeah exactly and so couldn't have that and so it's just a long slow progression but always an upward progression this one thing no matter what I'd be happy to have leveled off five years ago ten years ago I'd been fine but right nothing ever stays the same
[SPEAKER_00]: You're getting worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my goal has always been just the slow gradual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take up everything's really solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a baby step forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take a baby step forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody given me $5 million right out of the gate to build this, I would have been bankrupt in five years because I had an earn in my way there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he said for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and to have the credibility, the first person credibility of to have truly tried everything made all the mistakes and have arrived at what you're doing that works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so on what doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's powerful, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a different thing just doing what someone tells you and just never questioning it and going from there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it turned out to be a very deep knowledge because of my struggles and failures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really understood why not to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was very confident why we do it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't do it that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think people can tell the difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that that real in your pores.
[SPEAKER_01]: organic credibility is impossible to fake, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, over a period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: People can sense it.
[SPEAKER_00]: People sniff it out real quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course they can look at your work, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the rods are absolutely beautiful and speak for themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that strikes me and and again, we were joking because
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't need any help from me to publicize what you're doing because you're sold out as far in advance as you want to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a two-plus year waitlist, like which is awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that tells its own story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so impressed as I signed up for the class and started really getting into it and as I'm giddy about finally having this decades long dream come true.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many of your people are repeat customers?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll share with our audience because they'll know these folks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Steven Joe Heywood, who are a father-in-son run HFF custom rods and there are
[SPEAKER_01]: English resource customer and they're big bats and dealer and who's my competition but love them.
[SPEAKER_01]: A great shop in Michigan real big trout and salmon guys and a new shop that opened an area that was kind of underserved from a rod building component standpoint and from people specializing in the kind of rods and fishing they do in that part of Michigan and that four hour radius you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: they're doing it but they're coming back this is a repeat thing for them and I know those guys in both of those guys are very competent rod builders and they can't wait to come back again right and we got very fortunate that we were we were in the same class we we did not that happened to add as a happy accident it has got a master plan on our part but we're like sharing an Airbnb with them and can't wait to just spend the time with them but to see how excited those guys are to come back and then you have a lot of repeat
[SPEAKER_01]: a cynic would say oh well you're teaching a class and they're coming back like you must not at all in very well they didn't know that's not what it is right there's so much to learn and there's something you never perfect and and it is actually economically cheaper if if you're if you're if your desired outcome is a complete rod you build they want to get your own planning forms and do it all the things to do
[SPEAKER_01]: and be able to walk into this class and for one prize, choose any line weight, any link from this huge catalog of tapers and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to me, that's the only disservice you've done as is like, I'm still to this day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep going to bed thinking I've decided between a fresh water and a salt water.
[SPEAKER_01]: None of me, and then I wake up feeling the different way the next morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to have to come back, because I'm going to do, I think I'm going to do a salt water one for this one, just because that's so different and so interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's mostly how I fish these days being on the northern Gulf in Alabama, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can fish that day that rod any day of the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: My trout rod I'm only going to be able to fish on those trips where I go trout fish in plus it's not exactly a travel rod and checking, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think I think salt water's home and end up going, but what do you attribute that to?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've got guys who've taken the class five, six, seven times.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, is it that this concept pursued in the fact that they can build a different rod and kind of add to their collection?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or some of them are building rods as gifts for people, or as like, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to me, that's the strongest recommendation you could have is they take the question they want to take it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, interestingly enough, we have as you'll see when you get to the shop, we have a whole wall of aprons pinned on the wall hanging from previous students to get on that wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have taken at least 10 classes with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh, and you got a bunch of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a bunch of those up there and we have a bunch more coming in the next year, more and more.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's growing faster and faster all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Red apron means you've taken at least 20 classes with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have one student and about to be a second one who've hit the 30 class mark with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a student who's about to come back for a 34th week long class with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and every class that we teach about a third of the classes repeats student.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's remarkable, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like, I don't know what a, what a metrics.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could compare that to, but that's remarkable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's.
[SPEAKER_00]: It says good things.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason for everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: People will see a lot of people walking to our retail shop and they'll be like, you know, I want to come, but the weight is so long and like there's a I promise you there's a reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have to think about it different?
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to think about why is that weight so long?
[SPEAKER_00]: there's a reason that that's so hard to get in here because we've got a really good thing going and surprise it's surprising to me because as a someone interested in the rod making part I thought people would come who just wanted to be rod builders and they would take a class and then start building rods and what I the part I missed was
[SPEAKER_00]: just as it was so exciting thing to do for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same for when other people come and do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you, yeah, to take a raw material, just just a plant and turn it into something so gorgeous at a family heirloom that you can pass on one day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most of the people, most of our clients to come are not Rodmakers.
[SPEAKER_00]: They may have spent their whole career working on a computer, right, or in a law office, or they've never actually made a thing with their hands before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now to achieve something like this and to walk away with that and have something to show, it's just blows their minds, you know, it's remarkable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the week itself to come and hang out with 10 guys that are all like my same goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get a lot of really interesting characters as you can imagine who would come and do something ridiculous as this, you know, some really cool characters from all around the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then spend a week together and they'll go to meals, walk to dinner together and stuff or go fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of long-term friendships are made in the classes.
[SPEAKER_00]: guys will rebook with other classmates that they've met you know yeah so it's um it's turned into a whole thing on its own guys that for sure they people come to our class they don't even listen to instruction anymore after 23 classes they but they would just patiently wait and drink their beer and wait until it's time to do the next step and then they do it um
[SPEAKER_00]: But they just like the whole experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm dying to experience it myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only a few days away.
[SPEAKER_01]: So talk to me also because this is another thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would invite you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: The website is remarkable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a good website.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've actually stalked you on the website for the better part of 10 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's constantly improved.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's constantly got better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's oysterbamboo.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a wealth of information on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, they talk all about the classes, FAQs, all about lodging, all about what you pay what you're getting, how you schedule when it's due.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really is very, very thorough and very, very well done, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But essentially, all you got to do is show up dressed right, which is to say comfortable closing work in and rubber sole shoes with some rubber gloves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some leather gloves, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then your pre-student packet.
[SPEAKER_01]: We already got our pre-student packet.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is easy, you guys really do make it dead simple, but one of the other things people will see in the go on the website, and I don't want to just gloss over this, because just making the Bambi rods in and of itself is remarkable, but you're also a master and graver, and some of the engraving work is just breathtaking, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that come into it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was that a separate interest that merged into the rod building?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or was that you saying, hey, I'm looking for a way to
[SPEAKER_01]: make these the most remarkable handmade custom rods there are like how did the engraving go along with or follow on or get it all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was that also developed very naturally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had no interest in engraving no thoughts on the subject until
[SPEAKER_00]: We started having client requests for that sort of thing and we had it was it was a very special world like I was already full-time making rods and they were getting to be more and more high-end and so you start getting requests for more and more high-end features and great.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was like a retirement present.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was to be really truly special, Rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the buyer asked if I could have it in grave for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had seen some engravings on guns or something and asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you know, I have see if I can find somebody to do something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I got in the phone book back then and did a little Google or not Googling.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was no Google.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I did some snoochering.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for fingers to do the walk it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: and made some phone calls, and I found a guy who was an engraver, and he was really worked in the jewelry industry, which is most of the guys with the engraving and engraving wedding plates and things like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I talked to him, yeah, I can do that, I can do this kind of style, and he got with him, and he did it, and they were happy with it, and the customer paid for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we posted the photos on the website because it came out really cool and so then we got another request where they saw that and they So I go back to him and he was like, yeah, but it was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be everything's very thin It's very curved, it's very difficult to work on and like doubled his prices fine doesn't matter me I wasn't making any money off of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just paying the engraver they were paying the paying that difference and so
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so that happened a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time he doubled his prices, every time he worked out fine, but the problem was he didn't know anything about fly rods, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So as it became more and more popular, it became more and more a hassle because the rod is done, the big birthday party is coming up, that the rod was purchased for, and I'm waiting on the real seat to show up to be engraved.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it comes in last minute, but the butt caps engraved upside down, even though it was all clearly marked and, you know, and it got so bad that I was like, and then, of course, the customer, Matt, they don't know the engraver.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to use.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, this is either coming off the menu completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to delete any evidence of engraving from the website.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or it's got to come in a house period like, and being the guy with the art school background, I sent myself to engraving school to see, you know, there's different kinds of art abilities, you know, maybe you're a great sculptor, but you can't draw save your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, right, I didn't know if I could do it or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as it worked out, it just clicked with my particular artistic bent and you can, by the way, it worked out and because I had this immediate demand for it, I was able to, as I learned, I was able to incorporate it and stay active with it and so my.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I went and took as many courses as I could over the years and and just added to the repertoire.
[SPEAKER_00]: I ended up teaching at the same school when the summers taught advanced sculpting and inlay engraving and and as well as some intro class, so I just didn't have time to do for that anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I ended up very heavy into the engraving scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: as well as you do absolutely beautiful work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I have some help finally, Ms. Paxton, we hired her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She went to the same school and she actually got her, or Bachelor's of Fine Arts in Hand and Graving and has been with us now for four years and she's been a huge help with me, where I'm not just always in glued to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still do all of the more complex ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, many scenes and the fish and all those things that I really know, but lettering and the scroll work and things, she's extremely proficient at, so it's been a huge help allows me actually spend more time making, playing in Bamboo and doing those kinds of things again and spending more time with the students.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So for folks, if you're interested, like I said, there's an unbelievable wealth of information at OysterBamboo.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: But but essentially what you do is you sign up for this class.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get six days of instruction with Bill Oyster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Each student is working at their own work station so that you choose your length, line, weight, and taper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, you can build any zero to 12 weight, two
[SPEAKER_01]: all the tools, components, hardware, materials, everything are provided, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you literally finish you wait for the Vaughnish to try and then you take your rod home the the last day, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And take it with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and you get a rod bag and a tube with the label.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like this is a really first class.
[SPEAKER_01]: operation, but so you're doing one of these classes every other week, but you're still a full-time builder.
[SPEAKER_01]: So are you actually building rods, you're working on a rod for a customer that you're building while you're showing people how to do the steps or how do you pair all the processes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So during the classes, it's all about the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, in fact, we just blew out another wall in here so we can have some guys doing custom work while the class is going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But our core crew is just about the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so we've got like eight of us here working now and in the and that's not all in the shop like the reason you get such good service as a customer coming here and I can vouch for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to have full time people handling all that and their job is to make sure you have everything that you need and you get here in one piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they do a great job.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but during the class, those of us in the shop that's we're all about the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not answering phones.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not dealing with customer odd people.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not working on other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are all about you guys getting you guys through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's three of us full-time me, Riley, and Jacob, who are 100% of the time just overseeing the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Answering questions, doing the instructing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we also offer things extras in the class like Dean Draving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was going to ask that was going to be my next question.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, we have the option to roll in at the beginning of the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pick the engraving if we want custom engraving on our seats or on our fairles or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you logistically get that done?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got, so we actually have a hole at basically anything you see on our website with our custom rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is available to our students as well, but of course it's extra cost to take a sure time you would expect it would be right so but and and so we make all those things available not as a sales pitch there's no pressure sales or anything but some people want everything There's some people they see that engraving they like I want that I got to have it I got to have now that I've seen you yet
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get an extra tip made for your rod, which is traditional in bamboo if you want that insurance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people don't want to spend that money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those will be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, that's Jacob's primary job is he builds extra tips during the class.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so those will also be complete to take home at the end of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The engraving is complete and goes on your rod at the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's because we have Miss Paxton who engraves nonstop all week Jacob does extra tips nonstop all week Okay, Riley and I I do most majority of the instruction Riley's been the shop manager here for like 16 years so
[SPEAKER_00]: He's 20 years younger than me and when I don't know what's going on I ask him so yeah, he's he's a very Apped and all this and so and he did his primary job is I would struck get you going and he is always there to Answer any questions you run into a problem an issue a lot of times then I'll go and help Paxton with the engraving if there's extra stuff to be done
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure Jacob's going good on the extra tips, you know, but I'm always there in the shop as well, except for wrapping day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, I don't have to be there for that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Riley wraps almost all of the rods in our shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I let him teach wrapping day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go fishing that day, but because it teaches you to wrap guys and yeah, that's part of my extended retirement plan as it's too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I hope for this to keep going long after I gone fishing, you know, so and I don't want it to be all about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want it to be about the company, what we offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not all about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot do all of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried to do it all myself long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized a long time ago that was not working.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's we have a very much a crew of and anybody in our company you can speak to and if they don't give you highest level of service you let me know and they will be disappeared in a hurry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have not had anything that was anything that was in the highest level of service.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's remarkable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know it's a, I do know that it is an experience we pay for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know it is a for profit enterprise.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do also on behalf of the community.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: In just the time that I've been building rods, we've seen a real big shift.
[SPEAKER_01]: The world has changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have, like, I learned off of the Dale Climins, you know, how to build a custom rod book, because that's all there was, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were, I was doing it in Nashville, Tennessee.
[SPEAKER_01]: There weren't.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were a few other builders, but not people building fly rods, like, and it's really changed over the years to where,
[SPEAKER_01]: I, some people, uh, it's proprietary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I learned it the hard way you go figure it out, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my observation has an outside person who doesn't fully understand the community has been in on the periphery of the community for a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: That, no, I'm not sharing anything with you, mind your own business is way more prevalent even in the bamboo than it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it has been historically prevalent on the, on the custom side period, um, with, you know, glass and plastic and carbon fiber rods, however we want to talk about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's awesome that you've chosen to share with people and I think it's the legacy that you're leaving and this notion of the split bamboo fly rod is a distinct is a very American notion like it may not have been invented here in the first place but a lot of the most famous people who have evolved the techniques, the methods, the tapers,
[SPEAKER_01]: the art and science of what everybody does now.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the most famous were American builders, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the slight correction on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was 100% invented here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the most famous or from because previous to the split bamboo fly rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people, and this is something I give it a little five-minute history lesson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please do, I should have started with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so a lot of people,
[SPEAKER_00]: turn their nose up at Bamboo and an anti-snobbery kind of way, because they view it as some kind of European classic guy and tweeds out there on the street stream and like this is the United States and we're a high speed like weight fat action right true you know country
[SPEAKER_00]: The guys over in Europe and those old paintings and woodcuts and they weren't fishing bamboo rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were fishing wooden rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lance wood, green heart, you, things like this, and the wood being much less powerful, the rods had to be larger and longer, and because of that, typically cast with two hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: guy started coming to the United States, completely undeveloped country.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got this Appalachian mountain chain running from Georgia to Maine, broke trout, streams, mountain laurels, road at dendrons, tight covered up, small fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: These 14 foot two handed six pound wouldn't wrong for not the right tool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and this is as I understood it, it's standard anyway, from being around in the English, they say at one point had used little shoots of bamboo on the tips of some of their rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like ugly stick does on their spinning rod, they put a little fiber all the last of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what they realized was that little tip, a bouncer tip there was really the best part of the whole rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: but you could not make the whole rod out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, but you couldn't rely on Mother Nature to grow you your entire fly rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a little shoot of it is one thing, but you couple feet, but you need a six, eight, ten, twelve feet, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they had to think of it like a building material and the first known record.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's plenty of people are the way more into the historic, so I'm sure they are.
[SPEAKER_01]: But generally, you're ahead of me and you're ahead of most of the audience, so please I see it, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: But generally, the first record, a guy named Samuel Felipe up in New England, was marketed the All Bamboo Flyrod for the first time, and I think it was 1846, oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And soon after that, the Leonard Rod company sort of industrial revolutionized the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually had machine, they didn't do any hand planning at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could run it through a machine and get it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, they also weren't making the high art that people think of at Bamboo Fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's another make and fishing pulse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they were able to crank them out by the thousands, and it was just head and shoulders above any of these wooden rods that people had seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: The story goes that the Hardy Rod Company ordered one from the Leonard Rod Company and had it sent to England where they brought in a woodworker who reversed engineered the thing and they started producing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: interesting peasant Michelle did the same in France and it spread throughout Europe.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as the American flyfisher, this is our heritage.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very few crafts of this level that we can attribute to American in origin being such a young country, you know, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the split bamboo fly rod is one of them as you American fly fisher.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is this is our craft the split bamboo fly rod is invented here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was perfected here all of your collectible rods are American made from American makers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not me being nationalistic that's just that's just the way it is that's the history of the story
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an amazing story and when you think about that and you think about it that way what a shame it would be if that flame was extinguished right if it was Street on and passed on right if it wasn't appreciated by American Fisherman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, this amazing heritage that we have, you know, and it's important to keep that thing going, you know
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I just applaud you for being an open book and choosing to share and teach and perpetuate that legacy because it matters, you know, it matters to those of us who care about this community and I love this way of fishing and and it's it's not the choice everyone has made and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank God we live in a free country and we can all, you know, within limits do what we want to do, but I do want to say thank you and applaud you for being willing to share and and be open even in a classroom because I think it's really positive for the industry as a whole, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say that as someone who, you know, my, my commercial interest is in is distributing food, you products and no one's.
[SPEAKER_01]: knock on wood, I guess you never say never, but I struggle to see anybody put any food you product on a on a bamboo flower rod, I guess you could do it, but it wouldn't exactly be correct, you know, but but even then I love, I love that this distinctly American craft is carrying on and being perpetuated and that we have this whole, my hope is that some one of these students that comes through and takes the class is going to be
[SPEAKER_01]: the person who stands on your shoulders and keeps this enterprise going, you know, and so we kind of keep this proud tradition.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, as someone who's from Texas originally and went to school, lived in Tennessee, Emery to Girl from Arkansas, lived there and now lives in Alabama.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just tickled pink that it's in the Southeast.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't even know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's what a incredible testament to North Georgia, you know, this is the place where it was located.
[SPEAKER_00]: It turned out to be a really ideal location for us with 12 months a year
[SPEAKER_00]: access to trial fishing access to the salt fishing and that's where our salt water line we we hadn't mentioned that that was something that we they didn't exist right the salt water bamboo yeah a few people have tried to kind of follow our lead to marginally
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... successfully but but we do at at least a quarter of all the rods we make or for the salt water well and you personally fish a lot of bamboo in the salt water and i i i i i've mentioned the website uh... always there also has a wonderful presence on youtube and uh... if you're interested a lot of the FAQs there on your website too but they're also on youtube you guys have done uh... kind of video FAQs where you talk about
[SPEAKER_01]: what's different about bamboo versus carbon fiber?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's different?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I match a line to my bamboo rod?
[SPEAKER_01]: Bamboo for salt water, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I watched that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one really hooked to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's some beautiful footage of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it looks like could be the Georgia coast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it looks like could be the Everglades or somewhere, but you know, fish in the bamboo rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: make a very compelling case and I won't you know recite it here but for why that's a material that very much belongs in a saltwater environment and you know we tend to think about the difficulty of making it and we tend to think about the complexity of it but there's also some durability to it right and how or to it built right that is very difficult to replicate in a tubular composite construction right so yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the way you're challenging the notion of, hey, this is just an old thing for people who dry fly fish only into blind snobs.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, this is for fishermen, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they got a huge pace.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really open my eyes and I feel like I'm kind of a rod nerd, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and then I wasn't really thinking about it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe suggest a lot of people aren't so i'd encourage people to check that stuff out and listen to it and watch it because it's really well done you guys do a great job um you know it's uh that the saltwater thing is a big deal like and like i said i think i'm probably i think air and i probably both are gonna wind up building
[SPEAKER_00]: Red fish rods because that's what we have the red fish and speckle trotter what we have the most direct access to so why wouldn't we build what we're going to fish with yeah absolutely red fish one of my favorite i've done it all we we take uh... international trips every year with our students and great we organize like it like a lot of people do but we go to beliefs almost every year we we do south androids for the bone fish yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally go to the keys every year for to be a tarp and we go to the Florida coast in my own boat just every chance we get.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and of course, we've done trout stuff too Patagonian all that, but But I love the salt water too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's so exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, I don't want to catch some amazing fish with a graphite rod and get my picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the bamboo guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I absolutely as a fisherman first, I make sure our rods are up to the challenge because it's all I get to use in the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, promise you they are very up to the challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that gives me a lot of confidence, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not like we're building all these fine small stream trout rods, but you could do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got the point.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: These things have been tested heavily in combat conditions in your personal position.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, two of the last four weeks I've been fishing in the salt so oh there we go That's just from right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, yeah, I did Louisiana four weeks ago and then I was down in my When my boat down on the Florida panhandle fishing for red fish two weeks ago, so
[SPEAKER_01]: I am only six hours door to door when I'm in Birmingham and I'm less than four hours door to door when I'm down and fully at our shop to Venice and yeah, I'm in love with that fish for inshore and offshore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a remarkable place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get it down there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No doubt.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bet they you very well might be the only person they've ever seen throwing a bamboo fly rod down there Confisism sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it might man I'd be like I would tell the guy I fish with my captain Patrick Dickinson I've been fishing with for I don't know 15 years great guy Dixie outfitters LLC I would probably be like stop the boat turn around.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna go talk to that guy They do yeah That would stop me in my trash
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a guide in Belize once that I fished with for a week and we were just talking fishing right or just goofing around and right at the end of the week he he says so so you know what do you do for a living and I was like Oh actually make fly rods and he was like really and I was like yeah, but they're like you know the old style like the bamboo fly rods and he goes wow did you bring any with you
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've been fishing at all in the front of your skiff all week, and he had no idea, it never really did not realize it at all the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess that's why they're so good at spotting fish.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not even looking at you.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're looking at it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think that'd be the kind of thing he noticed immediately when you stepped on the skiff on the first morning, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they've missed it entirely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So which I saw as a compliment to my rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, another thing that's so interesting about it to me is I personally, and I'm not an elite level castor like I'm I'm perfectly good to fish right, but I'm not one of these.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a casting instructor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got flaws.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to work on constantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a 105 foot castor, you know what I mean, and I know a lot of those guys and that's in gals and they're great right, but
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, having taught a lot of people to play fish and to kids and everybody else, the reality is, while there can be a place for a really fast action rod, a more moderate action is much easier for most people to cast and to cast with more
[SPEAKER_01]: control right and it's a little more intuitive and how to get more out of it right in my opinion and you know if you like a slower action Man, they just keep getting faster and faster and faster to where now our five weights are actually seven and a half weight You know what I mean like exactly and again, I'm not gonna
[SPEAKER_01]: The industry's going to do what it does and there's a lot of sizzle and there's a little bit of stake out there too, but like I also think you know a lot of people thinking about bamboo is well, this is throwback and anachronistic and deliberately being antique or something, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually stop hold on a second if you haven't ever fished a not super fast action rod, you might find that you love it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it might make you a better caster, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know that's like dirty words and nobody wants to hear that, but it's I find that to be true for a lot of people and when I have someone's struggling Often will give them a much slower like I have a few spot Scott rods that are very traditional action and they're struggling struggling Strong and you put that in their hand and all of a sudden they're okay, and it's like all that is so if you haven't tried a slower action rod
[SPEAKER_01]: You might be missing something, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I tell people, and I love all fly rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: I obviously fish bamboo shoots.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to understand what I'm, but somebody brings some super cool, super fast rod after it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now enjoy thrown it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, and they're amazing tools.
[SPEAKER_00]: These modern crap, they're amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all feels like cheating honestly when you get some of them are so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can go your whole life and never learn how to fly cast because you can do everything wrong and still during the ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but a bamboo rod will not tolerate that is going to make you cast it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it gives you so much feedback because you can feel it when it goes right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You feel it when it goes wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can feel the weight of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can tell it in time and even if it's just a subliminal thing, maybe consciously you're
[SPEAKER_00]: it will train you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell people if you want to be a good caster fish only bamboo for one year and then get back on your graphite rod and you'll be amazed what you can do with your graphite rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that because it will force you to get your timing down a year smooth out your cast and a Russian tail it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so it is the positive now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you will cast a good caster will cast further with a graphite rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: Graphite rods are lighter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Graphite rods are cheaper.
[SPEAKER_01]: How often we in a fish at 105 feet though, or 90 feet, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very, very an actual fishing conditions, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And and time after time I meet guys who are like I have to have the fastest action rod ever made And they'll get the world's fastest five weight and then they fish it with a seven-weight line on it Because it's already a little bit right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a medium action rod, but they still swear their fast action guy
[SPEAKER_00]: but that you know there's there's marketing and there's quite a bit there's quite a bit we've gone away from the standards right yet so we try so with our rods we really try to make them perform with the correct line weight for what you're probably going to be doing right on rod right a three weight rod we figure you're making a lot of 20 foot gas
[SPEAKER_00]: And it should be, it relies on some ways and then they're at that, if you're eight weight, we're making a lot of 50, 60 foot casts and it needs to be stout enough, so our actions change along the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: You shouldn't have to overline them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're designed to do, but also people are a lot, they're only experience with bamboo is the classic bamboo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right where the style of fishing was very full they were swinging wet flies in the day bamboo right they didn't want it They weren't throwing tight loops.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't double hauling.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't right they were flopping and swinging in the English style Take a step down the stream flop it swinging it do it repeat right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is not the modern style of fishing so our rods are much more graspable the action to what people they're like this is not what I thought bamboo was going to feel like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very progressive stiff but light tip throw a tight loop if you want to.
[SPEAKER_00]: double-haul it if you need to, you know, they're designed for the job and the actions are much more modern.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still heavier, it's still slower than responding than graphite, of course, but the actions, the way it flexes and bends, is much more modern on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a modern fishing tool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's not a bug at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go watch your, go watch your videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I saw that very clearly when it was like, it's like, in my cat's water.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see it immediately, you get the picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my, my bamboo versus graphite casting video.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Three quarters of a million views in like less than a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also, and that's very well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, um, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: For those of us who haven't bought these books and read it and thought all about it, signed up for the class and are sort of familiar with the project or how you make how you construct one of these rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: can we just in real simple terms walk people through because it's almost like you're building the blank first and feraling it then you're building the rod on that blank right so yeah so most rod builders are familiar with what it is to wrap the guides on glue on the handle and stuff like that even in some cases and so on ferals but talk to us about the making of the blank sure at a very high level just for people who are like I really don't know how you make a short split cane blank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people show up to the class having no idea how the process is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how could they possibly keep us busy for six days?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then then it's like, oh my gosh, how did you get this done in six days?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it starts with a stock of Tonken Bamboo.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's always the same suy river valley of southern China, 30, 40 square miles in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: where it's just forests of bamboo and it's it's this particular species and it's natural habitat where it grows with the fiber density that gives us the strongest front okay it's like the high modulus graphite versus the lower you can make it out of any bamboo this is the this is the bamboo you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so every ride, since they switched from Calcutta Cain to Tonkin in about 1900, a little before that, everybody pretty much switched to Tonkin because it was just lighter and more powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what we're doing is we're the stock of Bamboo's 40, 50 feet tall when it grows, about three years old, they chop it about shin height, and then they chop it again, 12 feet up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we're starting with that lower 12 feet of a, so the stock of bamboo is about two and a half inches in diameter about like this and 12 feet long and they walk it's hollow on the inside obviously so we can just put it on the way then make a rod we're just dealing with that thin shell right so what we do is we take it and we split it out into as many will we cut it half first so we have a lower six feet and upper six feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make the lower half of your odd out of the lower bit, the half of your odd out of the upper bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you split that shell into as many strips about a quarter inch wide as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll need six free trots section.
[SPEAKER_00]: So our custom rods are three piece typically with an extra tip.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we make the bud in the mid out of the lower six feet and the two tips out of the upper six feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so we need 24 strips of bamboo just to make one fly ride with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Each of those strips gets planned into 60 degree triangular shape.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, um, when you take 60 degrees and put them together it forms a hexagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we'll do all the extra gun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, saw that all those little triangles meet in the middle right I'm going to give you a solid hexagon now will we will do all the tapering of those triangular strips first before we glue them together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're always cutting from the inside out because the outermost fibers are your best at the interim fibers are your weakest there the least dense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we do all the cutting and shaping work and from the inside of the triangle out towards that outer edge.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're left with just the very best fibers that go to the outside of your rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and then we'll taper those in a big, it's called a planning form.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically a big steel jig that we're running a block plane down and with that we're able to plane within tolerances of plus or minus 21,000ths of an inch, which is, yeah, it's about a third of the width of a human hair.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and it sounds like we're being ridiculous until you realize the difference between a 5-8 and a 6-way rod is only about 3,000ths of an inch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to have, yeah, if you want to have any hope of knowing how this rod is going to cast, you have to be very, very precise when you're doing your work, but we can play in those triangles.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even out that tip of the tip of the fly rod, imagine how small the tip of the fly rod is now divided by six.
[SPEAKER_00]: and now run a block plane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're like smaller than each one is about half the size of a toothpick and you're running a block plane down those little strips.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you'll glue them together, lengthwise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're laminated together, just glue them together, straighten it into the shaft of the rod, the blank of the rod.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll make that blank in the first three days of the class, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll spend the next three days, you know, even more than a graph, I know, we also have to think about varnishing the entire rod, not just the wraps, not just the wraps.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to do the wraps.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to coat the wraps, but then we also have to put a nice finish on the entire length of the rod as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's been the last three days, putting on your hardware.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll make the grips on the lay out of court discs clamped and we'll show everybody handshapes their own grip, install your ferals, wrap your guys, we're using traditional silk thread.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then we do dip varnishing, uh, you'll get three dip varnish coats on your rod, uh, doing all your sanding, still rolling and trimming in between every coat, uh, to get that done.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, at the end of the class, 100% complete, you could class in Saturday evening, you can take it to the river Sunday morning and go catch fish on that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I literally feel like there's not there literally there's like two things I've been really interested in doing in my life that I haven't done yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is build a bamboo fly rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other is build an acoustic guitar which I the same thing I've looked really hard at that it's like the ship is probably sailed for me on that I'm happy to buy other people's really brilliant guitars and just enjoy them very much but the bamboo rod that the fact that you know you all do this class and we're going to be able to make this one happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: beyond excited it like I'm having trouble falling asleep now that we're within a week of showing up we say like I said it's Wednesday we leave Sunday and I'm just literally stoked as I've been about anything in a long time although my wife's probably tired here in that except for our last anniversary I was equally stoked.
[SPEAKER_01]: for that, I promise that's always exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, it's going to be fun, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll have a whole new appreciate.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll never look at one the same way again.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm sure I won't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I have, like I said, I've read the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm familiar with the process.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a special guest who is
[SPEAKER_00]: That's Miss Pickles there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's Pickles.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of our shop dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we always have a dog on the same man.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's why you always got a smile on your face.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Bill, this has been fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for your time and so for everybody who's listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've really encouraged you to check this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really unique, very special thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got going on in Blue Ridge, Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, get an Oyster Bamboo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what your Facebook or YouTube channel is, too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And also Oyster Bamboo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then how else do you like people to get in touch to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course there's tons of contact information on the Oyster Bamboo website.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you know, just you can get on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get on our website and we have like a live chat thing on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you just had a question, you can send it somebody to get back to you right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife Shannon and Cassie and Jordan, all the girls downstairs who keep the business in the things running for us will be on you immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can call, you can email.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you confuse about anything, you can just call and talk, Cassie is the gatekeeper on those classes.
[SPEAKER_00]: She'll take good care of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's super organized and detailed and buttoned up.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a pleasure to work with, yeah, and we were probably knuckleheads, so that's saying something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably, get easy on her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just trampled it all over each other and so I decided.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what she does.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're running, currently we're running 240 guys a year plus through the class beginning and doing every bit of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the system down pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll take good care of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: All you got to do is be willing to show up and I want to learn that and get ready to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little worried that my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I maybe should have done this for the young man's eyes, but you'll be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: My eyes are not what they used to be, so we have for readers.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're used to people of all abilities.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to have any Rod making experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have guys who've never fly fished, they just felt like this would be a good way to inspire them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to start at the beginning, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we will tell you everything you need to know we're there to help.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've had people with physical ailments, difficulties, guys with tremors, we've done wounded warrior classes, we get people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you get yourself here, we will get you through by hook or crux.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you leave with your complete built bamboo fly rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be fun, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be a good time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well thank you so much for your time and I will see you Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you then.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, we'll do another episode after the class.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can tell you all about it and how it was and I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we sincerely appreciate your time bill and all you do for the community.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for teaching all of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks all of you guys tuning in and listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please remember to like and subscribe down below wherever you get your podcast content.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time here on the Mastering Ride Building Podcast.
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