[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to another episode of Shooting the Shit with Literary Agents, Carly Waters, and CC Lyra.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we dissect publishing gossip, discuss book industry trends, and the overall state of the book business.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd ever wanted to grab a coffee with two literary agents, grab your mug, and pull up a chair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hope you're having a lovely day so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started off by working on our lighting because we're recording in the evening and we don't normally record in the evening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the first time ever first time ever recording this maybe should have been our wine episode because we keep saying we should have a glass of wine in the evening and have a little recording.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought of suggesting that, but you told me you were sleep deprived and I thought that would be irresponsible of me because we're bad influence and be like, let's also give you one, you know, like I don't want to be a bad friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, you are true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been traveling for basically 24 hours and we had some trouble getting home for vacation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our flight was delayed for hours, which means we didn't make our connection back to Ottawa, which means we had to stay.
[SPEAKER_01]: at a hotel at the airport and kind of go through all of these things in any Toronto people know there's multiple airports in Toronto so they've dropped us off at Pearson but they couldn't get us out of Pearson to get to Ottawa so we had to take an airport transfer to the island airport to get out and get home.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did the boys do the fairy?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was so cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we were going to but we don't have any winter jackets because we came from a warm weather vacation And I didn't want to make them stand out in the cold, but yeah, now they had a good time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Took off looking at this young tower So anyway, we are home.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'd go to school today And my saint of a husband is hanging it with them while I caught up on a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to dig out of a bunch of
[SPEAKER_01]: emails at a 240 emails waiting for me, but I did a little bit of reading for fun on my trip, which was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I worked out my list, so I didn't forget.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've read, well, I started the correspondence.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, CCM you've read the correspondence.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an epistolary novel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Amy told me all about it, like the the success story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those like word of mouth, which is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, this is a Larry novel, and I'm excited to kind of get back into it, but I normally don't like a pistol Larry novels, because I feel like they're like trying so hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I'm going to go back and finish that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I read Heart of the Lover.
[SPEAKER_01]: I read the Irish Goodbye, and then I'm still working through the sequel to He'd Rivalry, which is called The Long Game.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all the reading I got up to.
[SPEAKER_03]: On stuff, I love the evocation reading.
[SPEAKER_03]: Vacation reading is special.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you not look at your inbox at all?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you like filter it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like while you're away.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us the truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, over the so for many years, I didn't take a vacation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I'm not allowed because I need to be at my desk because if an offer comes in, then I have to be here as my, you know, so I would didn't take a vacation for years.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I did take a vacation, I wouldn't put it out of office.
[SPEAKER_01]: for years because I was like, what if the offer comes in or the contract, I don't want somebody to think I'm not working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, yeah, you got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I started putting an out of office on once I had kids because like I truly was out of the office.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can, you know, be on vacation with them and 10 emails.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now what I do is I set my out of office.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have I have committed to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I have my assistant, so in my out of offices as like had reach my assistant, had reach our business office, or anything that needs to be taken care of, and there were contracts and deal memos and stuff that were kind of going around and authors that needed to approve their audio narrators, and like some things that my assistant could do, some things that business office could do, and then some things obviously that waited for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't do any work, but I mean, this is like the happy problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can brag about my job, happy problems, which is I had so many good news things that happened on vacation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got multiple stirred reviews for clients.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to announce a book deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was just all this other stuff kind of coming in.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just really nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my client EJ6 work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, got mentioned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, is it for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So EJ was mentioned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, work with my mother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was mentioned to the New Yorker as the best books of 20, 26 so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so just so many like good work things were happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it also makes me feel good to be off because I'm the guy earned this, but then I'm like, do I have to earn a vacation?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, all the mental gymnastics that we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I am tired.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been on a journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also watch the pit season two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we talk about this at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I always think first three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I caught up on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so what do you want to see?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'd rather not about my travels.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all the work stuff, all the amazing work stuff that's so much fun because we do have the best jobs.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I will not be complaining, I know what it's like to have a job that I am not enamored with.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in terms of storytelling that I'm enjoying, I watched ponies.
[SPEAKER_03]: TV show.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the premise is two women living in Moscow during the Cold War.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are wives, two men who clearly work for the CIA, but like they're not supposed to say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And first episode I'm not running anything, the husbands die and they become like spies.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they have no training.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, through a mixture of their education, their street, street marks and let's face it the fact that they're women and they are used to inhabiting a world that isn't belong to them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They, it's so cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I, I've only seen a few episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's not like a show that you can binge because like, yeah, not all episodes are available yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not even that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The episodes aren't available yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I could totally do the heavy part.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm just not able to talk about it, I'm
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't fall in love with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it wasn't bad by any means.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a perfectly lovely love story, but like...
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to watch the war.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to watch the war.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to watch the war.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it better?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I will defend what you probably didn't like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to go out there on a limb.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you probably didn't like was like the choppiness of the storytelling because it was like six months, two months, one in the chopping it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I've seen some theories online.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want the the yearning to build.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I didn't want it to be like fast forwarded because your
[SPEAKER_03]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this, I find the show really follows the book, so it is very, like, honest to the books and the way that they're written and how often they would see each other, it's just realistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did also see something about how it's like really choppy at the beginning as they're kind of, I'm sure of the love story, you know, in their connection and then it starts to get longer and longer as the yearning bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of also metaphor for the yearning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of got to, like, wait through the choppyness.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then the choppyness starts to kind of relax the way and they settle it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I apologize to all our listeners who are obsessed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to be honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, did not think it was bad at all, but I wasn't addicted to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also know if something's good or not.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I feel the pull of the story, I start reading a manuscript and I have to do something else because life goes on whether it work a life or life life and in the back of my mind I'm going
[SPEAKER_03]: or I really want to get back to that TV show or I really want to get back to that book or and if I'm not feeling that whole then to be honest like I have so much storytelling in my life available as work that you know you know why would I why would I keep watching it but
[SPEAKER_03]: with with heated rivalry, it's such a phenomenon and I want to understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I will watch one more episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, too, another thing that I did, Bianca and I got dinner and I have a friend, my best friend, her name's Kaylee.
[SPEAKER_03]: She has a very good friend, her name is Kim.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for Kim's 50th birthday, my friend Kaylee wanted to get her all of Bianca's books signed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was so sweet like I made sure to get like a copy of all four books and have the uncle sign them right little notes and my friend Kaylee because again she doesn't work in publishing she knows about what I do because I've mentioned but she's like oh so how much do authors charge for this and I'm like no I've lived up to this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you've just made her day.
[SPEAKER_03]: You purchased your phone.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are her books.
[SPEAKER_03]: And asked her for her autograph and a little note.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just like, well, no, it's a service.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to pay no, like, Kaley, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not allowed to pay for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so kind and generous and thoughtful.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're not allowed to pay.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, well, but, but you know, it's so cool that she would do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: She would take time out of her day.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, I don't think people regular people, non-publishing people understand how much authors love.
[SPEAKER_03]: Find me an author who doesn't love it
[SPEAKER_03]: book in this room birthday.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh, like it's that is the gift, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: That is the gift to the author.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I know way back early in my career.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I mean, I get all every client are buying to sign the first edition of their book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that lasted like one book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like life goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do have a couple of ones where I'm like gathering on the side of it for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I always feel like you're also a figure fan knowledge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is always really fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what my sister does whenever I have a new book out, she always skips the acknowledgment and like you have to read the story first.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, no, this is the most important part for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's your love with people when people are proud.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, where do you want to start?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am so tired that CC is going to have to take the reads on this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a new boss in the round.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, yes, ma'am.
[SPEAKER_03]: You asked me around.
[SPEAKER_03]: She said, bossingly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the first thing we should just mention, we don't only have any news on this, like official articles or anything, but there are layoffs going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: The beginning of the year is usually when we get information on who got promoted, which is always fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I love hearing about everyone who got promoted.
[SPEAKER_03]: People sometimes move and they wait until now to announce.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's exciting.
[SPEAKER_03]: But at the same time, there have been talks about layoffs that made your publishers, which is a bummer, which is really sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Way more than a bummer, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully, hopefully it won't be like mass layoffs and hopefully it won't last the board.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the time of recording, SNS is the one that we have some more for knowledge about, but, you know, it's part of corporate culture.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there are rules about, you know, let's not mention it without having to know for sure, but there are rumors about others too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, not fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully it's not a big deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Canadian bestseller lists.
[SPEAKER_03]: You made a note that you wanted to talk about Canadian bestsellers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you want to go through the list.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you were thinking?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if you are, I thought it would be fun to compare it to the New York Times.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you want to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think, yeah, well, I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not logged into my Times account.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you are, then go ahead for the main thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the main thing I wanted to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's been other blog posts about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw in Jane Freemann's newsletter this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: she also posted about it, which is, so the top 10 best selling fiction books of 2025 in Canada.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only one of them on the list is a Canadian author.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that this is worth talking about, because obviously, you know, CC and I physically are based in Canada, I always say like my body is in Canada my mind spent most of its time in the US because of my clients and business relations.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're here, and this is our home.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I do represent Canadians.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think it's definitely worth talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: on extorm, Rebecca Yaros, at the house made free to fat, like that in secrets of secrets by damn brown on extorm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Non collectors edition, by Rebecca Yaros, my friends, Frederick Bachman, broken country, Claire Leslie Hall, the fourth wing, the non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-non-
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, addition, the non non special addition, I guess, to that one, translated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then number eight, the black wolf by Louise Penny, which is the only Canadian author on the list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number nine, Elchumized by Sennie Liu and 10, the house made secret by Friedman.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are multiple authors who are repeat authors on this list in different formats, different titles, obviously some of these are series as you can see and special editions.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's just, it's one of those things where I mean I don't have other lists in front of me to compare it to in terms of previous years, but I would be curious about like last year in the upper four because not only Carly Fortune is also on this list and then some people like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on the nonfiction side, there is one, two, three Canadian authors on the nonfiction list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number one was let them theory, number two, every salad ever by Greta Publeski, atomic habits, James Clear, the psychology of money, Morgan household, number five values by Mark Carney, who is our prime minister, number six of book of lives by Margaret Atwood, the other Canadian, so that's the third Canadian number seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always remember by Charlie McKessie, nobody's girl by Virginia at Roberts to get free, the 48 laws of power by Robert Green and juiced Elfers and 10, the body keeps the score.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which as you guys know has been on the best of us for five straight years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so like between those lists That's not a lot of Canadians on the list and you know, definitely speaks to some larger issues I've been multinational publishing and various English language countries how connected all of our cultures are You know the import export market.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just affects a lot of things and I I wonder I don't know to do spend any time thinking about the seasy exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know I got some random thoughts
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, not spend any time thinking about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my thoughts are, I want to, I want to compare you on here, because I do want to, I do want to see if this is a trend.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when, when on the list, there can be two on extorms and a fourth wing, you know, it doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then there's movie tie-ins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, the house made the freedom of credit titles.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, anyway, I guess I was just bummed.
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't more Canadian authors.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking at the,
[SPEAKER_03]: New York Times bestsellers combined print and ebook because you have to pick one and I didn't want to do hard cover And he did rivalry is number two on take right so, you know, there's there's that I think I know that another book to that I think will be big That's coming out is the Esther year and I know she's Canadian too.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's cannot publishing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Jenny Jackson I don't make sure he's Canadian Carol Claire bars Canadian.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's American.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I want to fact somebody needs to fact check us on this because I need to agree on this because I list your podcast in a pretty sure she's American.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she's listed under Apple, I book's Canada Canadian fiction coming out.
[SPEAKER_03]: She did a talk at so-how's Toronto.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, she had to cancel because of the weather.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I saw her on a Canadian fourth coming fiction list.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: These are all secondary sources.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe maybe there's a parental lineage or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have more.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have more than one since this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: So why not?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard tons of stuff about that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we talked about this last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: People were saying about what a big.
[SPEAKER_01]: Deal it was in terms of its book deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there's going to be lots of lots of really books at this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: So no, I can't wait to read that excited to read that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, the next thing we need to talk about is an article you shared.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which I have called, I'm just going to be honest here, guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have called this the world's
[SPEAKER_03]: Most boring man writes the world's whinyest article.
[SPEAKER_03]: Seriously, it's so whiny.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope this person never hears me say this, but if you do, I am sorry, truly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't mean to be rude, but oh my god, wine, wine, wine, wine, wine, wine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing fun kind, like red wine, white wine, the boring kind.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, what attracted you to this article?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so one of the things I try to pay attention to is just like, what gets a lot of comments and sometimes it is things that are fiery and they do kind of create some controversy or they're total clickbait when I wrote the notes for this I was like, this is a clickbait article.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, 100%.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so, you know, that's just the way that it was written.
[SPEAKER_01]: I then I went down and read some of the comments and I was like, oh, okay, well, people could just make their own opinion about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I have the comments, are the comments, the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, they're all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I guess we should maybe talk about what this is about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's basically an article called The Date and Why Publishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was the day New York publishing lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so how do we get here and how do we get back by Ted Gioia?
[SPEAKER_03]: Gioia?
[SPEAKER_03]: Gio, joya, how do you pronounce that?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm feeling sleepy and I'm doing sleepy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I haven't some, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm already asleep.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things where it's like, okay, here's all the book covers that look a like and then it happens to be like all female authors like, oh, okay, I did kind of sad many women of color many women of color authors as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just talking about like the mid list and how you should be able to make it back in the day, you know, selling ex-thousands of copies and now you have to sell hundreds of thousands of copies and
[SPEAKER_01]: How editors don't edit.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I did like in this article was the link to just the danger of consolidation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe halfway down the article or so, there's a link to basically showing how all of the different imprints under Penguin Random House and how they all used to be their own publishing companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, some of them independent in themselves, like, you know, fodders and listening library and all the audio divisions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, essentially, I'm sure you guys know this, but essentially, like every single imprint at one time wasn't, was its own publishing house.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, for example, yeah, you know, like, platinum was J.P. Puckham Suns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we just say platinum, but like, it had a full name and wasn't dependent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a lot of inference that were developed once, you know, the publisher was in its
[SPEAKER_01]: and that sort of thing, but yeah, like just everything from Clarkson Potter to Crown to all of these imprints, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: These all used to be individual.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they're all groups is the Penguin Group, the random house group, you know, the Knopf Group, and, uh, and yeah, anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just always a great visualization of all these independent, used to be independent imprints.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're independent publishers, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And another part of one enormous group.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do like it when we, when we reflect on consolidation
[SPEAKER_03]: That's hardly an original opinion, and this is kind of my beef with this article like he mentions like everything is formulaic now He doesn't say what the formula is the book is as mentioned yes via the covers which he kind of calls clownish They are not clownish, but like he he doesn't say oh these are the formulas at all these books use I have read several of these books.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are not formulaic.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not all following the same formula
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, obviously, all storytelling has formulaic elements, all storytelling, but like, we're not when we say formulaic, we mean, just, you know, you're pasting, that's not what these books are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just like, why, why, like, why would he also mixing up packaging and product?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, obviously, the packaging is probably the correct way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he has to write the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he has to write the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: My problem is not read these books.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, everybody can check that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make their own opinion on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are 195 comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are 280 reshairs.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think this is the type of thing that he would just like to reshare without being like, can we just be critical about what we're being critical about?
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of just being like, you know, let's just, you know, what was me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I mean, again, it's it's the idea that someone would say the problem is all books are formulaic without backing that up, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like please back back that up, show that to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am actually really interested in seeing how these books are formulaic.
[SPEAKER_03]: The thing is I've read my books and I dissect books all the time, like it's what I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, they're not.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I doubt you had them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I'm just not convinced.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I was not convinced.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am always happy to be convinced.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love changing my mind because I think that when we change your mind, that means that like we're evolving as humans.
[SPEAKER_03]: If we feel like the same way we used to feel that it's probably a sign of something about things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's boring.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, human.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're listening, put it was boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think this person listens to our show, but that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the next thing, somebody, somebody, DM to me about auctions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of just liked the earnest way that this person asked a question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's one of those things where
[SPEAKER_01]: We throw around words all the time that they'll, you know, how we do our jobs and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just thought this person was like, I just need help.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this person said, hi, Carly, I'm just genuinely intrigued about auction and preempts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how a book sent out on submission, gardeners such huge interest from separate publishers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't get my head around what seems like a private submission process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like this was just like a type of question that a lot of people would ask and I thought it was a sort of private.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think which help in terms of like, okay, it might get my interpretation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: My interpretation is I have.
[SPEAKER_01]: one-on-one conversations with each editor, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm submitting to these individual imprints.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like that is the piece that's private.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my interpretation of what she was trying to ask was how does the agent orchestrate this thing while giving information to everybody, while keeping the information private and doing the dance of that orchestration of the auction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I got it because when you hear the word auction, typically you think of like the auctioneer with the little hammer.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there are a whole bunch of people sitting down and people see other people raise their hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that would be, I've probably the public version.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so slow.
[SPEAKER_03]: We took me so long to get it, but I know I get her question.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what she's saying is, well, if there's no public, and by the way, they're used to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they're used to being way back in the day, you would go to the publishers, or the publishers would come to the agents, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: You'd go to a physical meeting space.
[SPEAKER_03]: and it wasn't a situation where people were raising panels or anything, but it was like everyone in the same room.
[SPEAKER_03]: But whatever, that's not the point.
[SPEAKER_03]: The point is, I get the question out.
[SPEAKER_03]: The question is, so how does an auction happen when there isn't someone looking at someone else raising their hand?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fair question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to start?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want me to start?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we do it the same way so yeah, but also like there is so if there are so many different ways to do it right and I think what she's getting at is like what part does the private become public and vice versa right and what how does the information sharing happen so there are things like floors where we would talk about you know a certain level and a general sense but also specific like that's some ways that the private becomes public so yeah, I really have to backtrack.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, we have to go back in time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: The agent, we sent help you to pass me around.
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you I had to pass me around today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I'm going to be bossy.
[SPEAKER_03]: We sent out submissions, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's say, just this is just for the sake of the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say we send it up to 10 editors, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just imagine Carly and I are wrapping something together, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're wrapping something together.
[SPEAKER_03]: We send it out to 10 editors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, once we have enough people interested in this fairies, we're not going to get into details because we'll talk about it forever.
[SPEAKER_03]: We will send out emails letting people know, hey, we have other interest in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you in or are you out?
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in, we're going to send in the
[SPEAKER_03]: auction information so like the closing information auction rules and that's how kind of like the private becomes not public but everyone all of a sudden has a comment on their yeah everyone all of a sudden has the same auction rules that you have this thing closing date they know you know what what what what the rules are and the rules could be anything from there's gonna be a floor to there's gonna be x amount of bits it's gonna be round robin it's gonna be best bits it's gonna be best bits modified whatever but
[SPEAKER_03]: that's sort of how you get everyone on the same page.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to get to that point, you do need to have enough people interested.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I do find that, and this is something that I, I remember realizing, and it's so obvious, but I hadn't thought about it until I became an agent.
[SPEAKER_03]: You talked to editors and they kind of know who they're competing against without without it being public, because truth
[SPEAKER_03]: Our tastes and books are so similar, and this happens to agents too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when I lose a beauty contest, beauty contest is not literal.
[SPEAKER_03]: People, this is when an agent offers representation and the client doesn't go with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I lose a beauty contest, it's usually to the same agents.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, there's a few and the same thing happens to editors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you kind of know without knowing who else is in the mix.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's some editors who even say, I know if I lost an auction.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was probably to either this person or that person or this other person.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they, you know, we know who has the same taste.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think that's the backtracking that we had to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: But wait, you were to talk about floors and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was just going to say, like, there are ways to share the information without saying like so and so did this or you know, and editors also try to get information from us about how they kind of best do their job and our job is obviously to serve the client best.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always, I find that editors often, they're trying to figure out how they're not going to lose the auction.
[SPEAKER_01]: What they really need to do is figure out how they're going to win the auction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the person that wins is always the person that's in it to win it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the person that's trying just to make it to the other round anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about options forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there's been a lot of questions from this, obviously let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully that helps with the private public and I get the question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't getting the question, but I got it now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think also two one of the best things about options is that when an editor does lose and it's always heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hate having to share about news and be like, oh, unfortunately you didn't make it.
[SPEAKER_03]: If assuming you do a good job, like assuming that you treat everyone physically, you end up building a strong relationship with that editor and so for your next submission, they're going to pay even more attention.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also, if there's a book that's similar, like you can also tell your colleagues and when they have something similar, I remember.
[SPEAKER_03]: an editor once telling me, I lost the auction for the other black girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please, if you have anything that's even remotely similar, I cannot believe I lost that auction to send it to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's this hunger too that comes after someone loses an auction.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's heartbreaking to share.
[SPEAKER_03]: You lost.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, news.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, well, should we break for our sponsors?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we should thank you for reminding us.
[SPEAKER_03]: You told me to be bossy today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are back.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are now going to share another question from our listeners and I will be very honest.
[SPEAKER_03]: This question is quite long saying this with all the love to the person who asked the question.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not going to read it word for word.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they're essentially asking about resources.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're saying, hey, and it's a lovely message.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to make that clear.
[SPEAKER_03]: As a writer, I'm overwhelmed by the volume of resources available.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to choose where to invest my money.
[SPEAKER_03]: There seems to be so many resources available.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they mention a few resources.
[SPEAKER_03]: including management academy, publishers, market place, which is obviously not a class, but you pay for the subscription to get access to information.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jericho, London writer's lawns, poet and writers, and they're like, can you help me understand?
[SPEAKER_03]: They even mentioned our own resources, like Carly has her courses, I have my courses, we obviously have this, the, the, our podcasts resources like the deep dive by the way, but the time this air is the deep dive will have ended, but by the time of recording, it's this weekend and I'm excited and I guess you know her question is like,
[SPEAKER_03]: how can I navigate this as a writer?
[SPEAKER_03]: She's saying that she imagines that retreats could be really beneficial, but that it does seem like an example of inequitable access in the industry.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, well, how can writers protect themselves from something that seems legit but my preparatory versus something that could add real value?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have a lot of thoughts on this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I don't know if you want me to go first currently or you can totally go before.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you go for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have a lot of thoughts on this because I am coming from this as both a student and an instructor.
[SPEAKER_03]: First I want to recognize that in equitable access exists in all industries like we've talked about it before.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's there's a certain privilege because a lot of these things are paid.
[SPEAKER_03]: So many things do offer scholarships like in my courses, for example, I offer scholarships and we do it the deep dive and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't make it fully equitable, but it helps.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I want to acknowledge that, like that's a part of every industry.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a part of the capital in Swirl, we live in.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, however, started thinking about this question, which I thought was a thoughtful and really intelligent question, and I remembered my lost school days.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I was a lost school, the professors who taught the best classes.
[SPEAKER_03]: taught these classes in the most ungodly hours.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am talking so early not even roosters were up or so late that everyone but me was tired.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm never tired in the evening.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we talked to each other like we lost school students, you know, bride-eyed and optimistic being like, why?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why the best profs always teaching in the worst times?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the answer was so obvious it was right in front of us because they're the working lawyers.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're the ones who have to go to the firm, or wherever else they work.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure there was one in House Council, and that's something they do on the side almost, like they also teach, but their professionals who are practicing law and their fabulous lawyers, and that's what made their classes so great, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not saying the other prophets were great or that there are prophets who are,
[SPEAKER_03]: practicing lawyers who aren't necessarily great fine, but like I will say that there's something special about learning from someone who is doing the job and teaching.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is something that in our world has changed a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like nowadays, you can go to a place like Masterclass, which is super famous.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure they even advertised with us or maybe they wanted to, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: but like you can learn from Margaret Atwood, Martin Scorsese, you can learn from Mariah Carey, like literally, you know, I have a master's class subscription and I could take these classes by these amazing people because we live in a world where that is available to us, thanks to technology and thanks to the fact that people do more than one thing and I think that's really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that humans, like once a part of time you had to do just one thing, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: And now, no, that's old playbook.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the new playbook.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think that this is me speaking as a student.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm someone who I love courses love and I have taken some courses that are terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've taken some courses that are amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll give you an example.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was not allowed to invest money directly like to buy stocks directly.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is really common for lawyers, particularly lawyers working in banking, because we were privy to insider information.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were not allowed to buy stocks, which is very reasonable.
[SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't invest like in a mutual fund through a bank, you know, paying a UM's and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we were not allowed to like trade ourselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: And after I was no longer practicing law for many years, I was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: So I took a few courses and I loved a few of them and I did not love others.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is just one example.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I love learning, I love self-development, I'm into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Part of how I find out if a course is good or not is really it comes down to my critical thinking.
[SPEAKER_03]: The listener is asking us, how do I know what's legit versus what's not?
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to talk to previous students of the courses.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to have a really strong writing community in that work that you can ask questions, people you trust.
[SPEAKER_03]: Part of it is also you kind of have to take a leap of faith like I have paid for courses that I did not love I didn't get that money back, but hey, I got the knowledge and I will never pay for that person's product ever again They keep trying to sell me new stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like no thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't like that So you know, it's about common sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about research and it's about figuring out what works for you At the end of the day, you can't know for sure though, and I think that that's just a part of like the subjective nature of of course work
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that's a great answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So things I ever think in about in addition to that was this idea of like the decision paralysis and also this idea that like it's the next course that's gonna make me a bestseller.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the next course that's gonna help me sell this book and maybe hinging it so much on the course when it's like we need to reflect in words and maybe it isn't the course isn't the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are the answer and what we bring to the course is our knowledge and that curiosity is your sang and that critical thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just encourage, I'm not saying this person's doing this, but anybody listening, like, really think about, is what is it that you're seeking?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you seeking the course material, are you seeking access to that instructor?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's tons of places, right, that you can get information.
[SPEAKER_01]: And knowledge, one of the reasons I wanted to do my course was a CC set.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a busy agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm too busy to teach life courses as much as I used to, so that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the way that I built my current course, it's all prerecorded, which man I can give my best version of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all in one place so that you guys can access it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can do my day job.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when I go to do updates to the course, you know that it's based on the knowledge of the business that I do on data.
[SPEAKER_03]: that was updated because you're doing the work exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I've informed everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think there's a lot of ways to approach this and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would have heard the person dot to be like, I have a checklist of all the things I need to do before I become a writer And I have to do three courses.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to learn my ways and and I I love You know this person again trying to better themselves and gain all this knowledge But it's not going to be the source that you maybe think it is that's going to give you the answer It could be but creative writing is such a
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, there's the business, I think I should also separate these two thoughts right because I think they're in my opinion, there's kind of the creative writing machine and then there's like the publishing machine my courses based on more of the publishing machine than the creative writing machine and so if you want to learn creative writing, there's all those vehicles, again, whether it's MFA, a J cent or specific writing courses about the writing side of the craft and then there's the publishing side of the craft so also think of it like what is it that I'm seeking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is best to deliver it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, who has the experience?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who has what I want?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I know that, you know, the outcome of that on the other side is from an individual or an organization that can speak from experience?
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, reminding everyone listening that in terms of access and the industry
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to, I don't know, paint a beautiful painting and get it on the walls of New Exity Galleries, or if you want to audition for a movie, there is no direct channel for the average person to do that, like you have to know somebody, and in some cases you have to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody,
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to put pages in front of Carly or myself or another agent, if we know we're not your cup of tea, hopefully we are, there's an email address that is public information.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's there on the M-Neon Kenquarius.
[SPEAKER_03]: We read our slush pile.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are there looking for gems.
[SPEAKER_03]: No one needs to pay for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, if I want to make that super clear, people who take my
[SPEAKER_03]: to take my courses in order to query please they're completely separate things.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I signed everyone who took my courses I would have hundreds of clients.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do not have a yes I have but again it's because the writing was so great and they if they had queried me without taking my class I would have had the exact same outcome so there is a very clear honest direct accessible to all channel which is our query emails.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are interested in querying us which you do not have to be but if you are we are accessible.
[SPEAKER_03]: So with all the creative industries and I know that creative industries have a low bar Publishing is quite accessible compared to others.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say that all good points I turned my mic off because the dog is barking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so baby me five.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we missed him He was he was big dog sat where we were away.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's home now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, just couple of the things we had on our list It's him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do we love this person?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do we trust them?
[SPEAKER_03]: They're secret cameras?
[SPEAKER_01]: My in-laws, my in-laws care, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave us in my dog for all of you that don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so one thing I just want to say the thing that we're not going to say Just so that you guys know that we know the thing that you're going to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so they're one lot of you have DM does like a lot a lot Yeah, yeah a lot of you guys do you have this about a certain post on social media Again, we're not trying to be
[SPEAKER_01]: opaque about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just want to let you know that we saw the post.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw everybody's reactions to the post.
[SPEAKER_01]: The post has been taken down and that is why CCI decided not to talk about the post.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have just had a respect for that conversation, probably needing to end.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the internet is a scary place and I love that our listeners reach out to us and ask us for questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please continue that but at the same time like it's We don't want to add fuel to the hate fire, you know, we just don't want that and
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not that there aren't great points being made or that there weren't great points that they weren't polite post because they were, but we just decided to not address it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're not addressing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not because we forgot anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the last thing we wanted to mention is everybody who is a subscriber to our sub-stack knows that we have a Tuesday edition that goes, that is full of all of our juicy, juicy subscriber-only knowledge, so I wanted to make sure that all of you guys knew what was going to be in the post tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you will open your substractware to see an excellent author Q&A, which is Christina Hammond's read, author of the Johnson Four, thoughtfully tackling some of your burning questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: We especially love this quote.
[SPEAKER_01]: The writing of the book is like, it's own little love story with these complicated, little fictional people in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know you could all relate because no matter what genre you're writing, the writing itself is the love story.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's also a Libby page author of this book made me think of you with a wonderful essay about overcoming self-doubt.
[SPEAKER_03]: Self-doubt is a subject that has been very, very, very prominent in my mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Libby mentioned, sometimes my brain tricks me into thinking that my book is like a computer game.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I do everything exactly correctly and in the correct order that I will have completed bookwriting and I will have achieved perfection.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the reality that it reminds us is that there are countless ways of writing a novel, and a lot of them would probably be equally good just different.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is why we are not in an exact science's field, which sounds so boring, thank God we are not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, that kind of like, you know, was piggybacking off of the thing that we just talked about, you know, there's many ways to achieve your goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have a video from Jane Ward, author of Should Of Told You Sooner, discussing her experiences with hybrid publishing and its advantages over traditional and self publishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's everything you guys have to look forward to and tomorrow's upstack.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so exciting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I cannot wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love our newsletter.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it sounds like ego-tistical of me to say that, but I genuinely do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have fun when I see our newsletter in my inbox.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have a question for our listeners.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are not a sub-stack subscriber, I mean, first of all, why not?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, genuinely, what wouldn't take for you to become a subscriber?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, well, would you like to see in our newsletter?
[SPEAKER_03]: We are curious, let us know.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can comment on our reals on socials and you can also DM Carly in myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we know that tons of you do, which is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be Shadow Note.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have over 70,000, like 70,000 subscribers, which also keeps us wanting to create the best content for you guys, show to other people in the community, making sure we're covering the authors who have books coming out that we think you guys are going to like, and really just keep in the community going, so we're so grateful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you to all of the 70,000 of you that read the newsletter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100% I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited to connect with everyone to know what else they want to see in our newsletter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, have a great week everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: CC Lera is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wshermen.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Colle on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS literary agency.