WEBVTT 00:00.232 --> 00:01.516 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching. 00:13.195 --> 00:16.879 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, welcome back to another episode of Friends From Work. 00:17.380 --> 00:24.448 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, and co-host Kyle Sconowell, and he's my host and co-host, friend from work, Robbie Earl. 00:24.688 --> 00:29.454 [SPEAKER_00]: Today we're going to be talking all things vision quest episode seven. 00:30.759 --> 00:48.912 [SPEAKER_00]: Robbie, before we get into all the what worked and what didn't work all our friendly feedback, I just want to say, I have to give a major shout out to you because about a month ago, we were sitting on this podcast episode after just having seen only two episodes of the series. 00:49.832 --> 01:03.305 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember where I was, I was in Michigan and I have seen the whole show and you in the closing statement somewhere in the middle of the episode towards the end, you said word for word, you're like, oh, and by the way, I just got to call something out. 01:03.886 --> 01:05.167 [SPEAKER_00]: This is before it was a thing at all. 01:05.227 --> 01:08.930 [SPEAKER_00]: You said they did this really cool Easter egg shout out to. 01:10.151 --> 01:14.115 [SPEAKER_00]: Phineas Horton and the first human torch with this painting. 01:14.435 --> 01:26.226 [SPEAKER_00]: He's and you said they're not going to do this But I just thought it was cool that they shouted this out and I was Mind blown because I was sitting there thinking oh my gosh, they do that 01:27.348 --> 01:30.931 [SPEAKER_00]: how in the world at that point did you catch it. 01:30.951 --> 01:33.914 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, as of last week, they had hinted a lot at it. 01:33.974 --> 01:36.195 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that was more of a popular thing. 01:36.396 --> 01:36.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:36.836 --> 01:42.961 [SPEAKER_00]: But to call that out from the first episode, to that's unreal. 01:44.062 --> 01:46.264 [SPEAKER_01]: That is, see, that's the thing. 01:46.284 --> 01:47.505 [SPEAKER_01]: I read too many Marvel Comics. 01:48.085 --> 01:51.088 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I do much of an expert of man. 01:51.108 --> 01:51.148 [SPEAKER_01]: I, 01:53.638 --> 02:15.555 [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to talk about on that front that I that I really loved here and just in in general at my like my first impression and and I got a little sense from you of how you felt like the series progressed through the first four episodes and through the last four episodes this to me. 02:17.966 --> 02:21.068 [SPEAKER_01]: it is a episode 7's a whole different level of show. 02:22.048 --> 02:26.531 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought, like, I was, I've really enjoyed this series all the way through. 02:26.551 --> 02:31.494 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it has generally gotten better each episode for the most part. 02:33.655 --> 02:35.837 [SPEAKER_01]: This was, yeah, yeah. 02:36.697 --> 02:37.077 [SPEAKER_01]: This is it. 02:37.458 --> 02:37.778 [SPEAKER_01]: We're here. 02:40.673 --> 03:08.785 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what, like, let me just say, I think, again, not to say like the other stuff was not this, but I think that I was watching, even just a couple of minutes in, like as Paul Bettenies kind of trying to go down the hall and glitching and, like, I was thinking like this, I'd hard to explain what it is, but this is exactly what I think I would have wanted to show to be, like after Wanda Vision, 03:09.807 --> 03:18.654 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do I want a vision-focused kind of conclusion to this trilogy to feel like, and it was that. 03:18.794 --> 03:35.587 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's almost like a little bit of the kind of like, eerie spookiness, like, but so, like, it reminded me of one division in the, like, you can't figure out what's going on, like, a little bit of that, like, lost thing. 03:35.687 --> 03:38.229 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, uh, yeah, yeah. 03:39.888 --> 03:44.196 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna get into all of the details of vision quest episode seven. 03:45.177 --> 03:52.931 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Wednesday, November 4th, Avengers, Doomsday releases December 18. 03:54.848 --> 03:57.269 [SPEAKER_00]: The Martin campaign's starting to get ramped up for that. 03:57.309 --> 03:58.390 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 03:58.410 --> 04:04.713 [SPEAKER_00]: It's officially next month behind the scenes, you and I are working on some stuff. 04:04.733 --> 04:06.434 [SPEAKER_00]: So just be kind of ready for a few things. 04:06.634 --> 04:09.356 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm working on a really fun YouTube video. 04:09.376 --> 04:10.917 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been making these screen recaps. 04:11.377 --> 04:16.159 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, for something like Avengers Doomsday, the screen recap is almost ridiculous. 04:16.600 --> 04:19.061 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a fun video in there, leaning into that. 04:19.621 --> 04:21.842 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to put together a video 04:23.143 --> 04:36.747 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have fallen behind or you've missed some projects, you know, you and I released a short cut through the multiverse document, and this is basically a video version of that if you don't have time to catch up on stuff. 04:37.727 --> 04:39.288 [SPEAKER_00]: But other things are going to get ramped up for that. 04:39.308 --> 04:40.348 [SPEAKER_00]: So that'll be really, really fun. 04:41.407 --> 04:48.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, next week, Wednesday, November 11, vision quest finale errors. 04:48.954 --> 04:51.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not, I don't want to spoil anything. 04:51.096 --> 04:55.821 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to like hint at anything, but I'll just say I feel like it was very good. 04:56.301 --> 04:58.063 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's very good. 04:58.624 --> 05:01.647 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there'll be some fun conversations out of that. 05:02.187 --> 05:03.849 [SPEAKER_00]: you and I are working on what that means. 05:04.450 --> 05:07.052 [SPEAKER_00]: We might be on social media or on YouTube next week. 05:07.113 --> 05:21.188 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know yet, 100% so I would just say, follow us on social media or follow us on YouTube, follow us on Discord and we can get a message out if we decide to go live on YouTube or something after like immediately following next week's finale. 05:24.617 --> 05:38.225 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's something you and I got to talk about by the way, behind the scenes at some point because I've been noticing like Eric Voss is making a ton of videos week to week on new rock stars about where each episode's going. 05:38.846 --> 05:43.108 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting thing because this has been the first time where I know the whole project and you don't. 05:43.168 --> 05:52.074 [SPEAKER_00]: So I got some praise from people on Discord last night being like, oh my gosh, Kyle, great job sitting on all this and not ruining anything, which thank you. 05:52.774 --> 05:57.978 [SPEAKER_00]: But we got to figure out what the rhythm is there, you know, because it's like, if you're going to interview people, I think it's really good to have more. 05:57.998 --> 06:00.260 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I almost have liked this as my point. 06:00.400 --> 06:06.945 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always liked me being able to talk with our guests, fully spoiler if that's the rhythm. 06:07.346 --> 06:10.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And then still getting the other half of it of you being surprised? 06:10.568 --> 06:11.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know. 06:11.989 --> 06:12.770 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to figure that out too. 06:13.210 --> 06:15.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because I would also imagine, boss. 06:17.165 --> 06:18.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but what if he intentionally did it? 06:18.748 --> 06:20.631 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but what if he intentionally doesn't watch it? 06:20.651 --> 06:22.574 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he says for himself, I'm not doing interviews. 06:23.649 --> 06:27.290 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it is more beneficial for new rock stars to make videos week to week. 06:27.450 --> 06:29.051 [SPEAKER_00]: What you can't fake if you know where to go. 06:29.071 --> 06:29.771 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's the thing. 06:29.791 --> 06:44.277 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's that's why I, uh, I just feel like there's again, it depends right like a show like Echo, it kind of makes sense that they release it all at once, because it's not a super cliffhangery like mine bindi show. 06:45.097 --> 06:49.819 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that this is very much in the vein of one division. 06:49.959 --> 06:51.080 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think 06:52.440 --> 07:03.659 [SPEAKER_01]: it, it makes sense to like, I like being able to watch week to week and getting thrown off the trail, but yeah, it is hard. 07:05.012 --> 07:11.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, last thing I'll say to is this episode is brought to you by Pinobound Comics this week on Friends From Work Plus. 07:11.380 --> 07:17.566 [SPEAKER_00]: We dove into the DC series lanterns, which was a really fun episode available on Friends From Work Plus. 07:18.147 --> 07:24.875 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you talked about on that episode, all kinds of comics, inspiring that project. 07:25.415 --> 07:33.679 [SPEAKER_00]: and comics that you can find a lot of times and currently maybe right now on sale at Penelbaum comics if you use our promo code friends from work, you can double down. 07:33.699 --> 07:36.680 [SPEAKER_00]: So even if they have a sale, you can still use friends from work and save. 07:36.720 --> 07:40.181 [SPEAKER_00]: I think five or 10 percent more on the sale comics. 07:40.202 --> 07:43.683 [SPEAKER_00]: So anything you want to add about Penelbaum comics, they've been crushing it lately. 07:44.183 --> 07:50.246 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, just that uh, like like I've said, they've got some of the, um, 07:51.933 --> 08:00.279 [SPEAKER_01]: some of these absolute books have been on sale, the absolute format of DC, but they were running a big horror Halloween sale recently. 08:00.379 --> 08:05.303 [SPEAKER_01]: They've been kind of going, going nuts on stuff here towards the end of the year. 08:05.423 --> 08:06.303 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think... 08:07.624 --> 08:10.266 [SPEAKER_01]: They still like they have a big focus on green laner stuff. 08:10.386 --> 08:18.192 [SPEAKER_01]: So to your point if you are like us and you were intrigued by that show You should just go and browse the selection there. 08:19.092 --> 08:31.521 [SPEAKER_01]: I I also just wanted to note on the The news front just because I think this is our first time Recording since the news broke 08:33.443 --> 08:43.899 [SPEAKER_01]: last week we lost Patrick Stewart oh yeah professor X captain John Luke Picard and you know renowned stage actor 08:44.383 --> 08:48.685 [SPEAKER_00]: by all accounts of very upstanding man. 08:49.005 --> 08:54.147 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, Doomsday is gonna be a little bit different because they have confirmed that's his last project. 08:54.407 --> 08:56.148 [SPEAKER_00]: He's filmed everything, he's in it. 08:56.828 --> 09:09.233 [SPEAKER_00]: But like that scene with him in Magneto is gonna hit harder, which by the way, on that front, I saw a couple, I don't know if these are rumors, but that he had a few list of stipulations for him to do another movie, like Doomsday. 09:09.893 --> 09:12.995 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was only like three things, but one of them was that 09:14.050 --> 09:26.614 [SPEAKER_00]: the character got like a very, you know, your beautiful send off and another was that he had a scene with Magneto, where they could, like these were part of, like if I'm gonna do this, I have to be with Magneto a ball. 09:27.054 --> 09:31.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think now in context of having the real actor pass away, yeah. 09:31.316 --> 09:35.297 [SPEAKER_00]: That'll be really interesting and very moving, I think if that's what happens in the story. 09:35.937 --> 09:37.318 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, I think, 09:39.441 --> 09:58.636 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always encouraging to see everyone have such great things to say about it's like, you know, you want to believe Patrick Stewart is is like the person that we have seen on screen and it very much seems like that's the case like you read story after story of 10:00.892 --> 10:18.343 [SPEAKER_01]: people that were like worked with him in various capacities, whether it was on stage or on Star Trek or in the X-Men stuff, and it's like he seems to have been one of these guys that comes on set and becomes kind of a natural leader and an encourager. 10:18.523 --> 10:22.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I've read stories about on Star Trek next generation. 10:24.287 --> 10:48.475 [SPEAKER_01]: people a lot of the actors would kind of be goofing off between takes and he was like no look like we've felt like this is we have the best job in the world we have to take it seriously because like we're we're here to work and all these crew people are here to work and they don't get to goof off between takes so it's just like he seems like like he was a really special guy and I 10:51.374 --> 11:13.132 [SPEAKER_01]: He and Ian McKellen had such a close relationship and a close friendship for, I mean, even before they started working together on X-Men, and so I think for them to finish, or for him to finish his film career with, certainly, and it does like if it feels, 11:14.433 --> 11:21.637 [SPEAKER_01]: right to me, you know, and as much as a final sort of sudden appearance can feel, right? 11:21.897 --> 11:33.964 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, it's sad, but also kind of moving just to see the outpouring of like warm thoughts towards Patrick Stewart. 11:34.944 --> 11:36.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of beautiful tribute, size saw. 11:37.025 --> 11:37.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:37.305 --> 11:40.807 [SPEAKER_00]: Well said, all right, we'll be right back with our friendly feedback on 11:57.147 --> 12:07.872 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this might be the most jam-packed episode we've had yet as far as if you want to get into all the details, all the easter eggs, all the connections, all all that stuff. 12:09.312 --> 12:13.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I probably won't have time to get everything and I'll forget some stuff. 12:13.694 --> 12:14.875 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just say for me. 12:16.313 --> 12:21.999 [SPEAKER_00]: that I don't think I have anything negative to say at all, so just have why I. 12:23.822 --> 12:28.847 [SPEAKER_00]: What I thought was so cool is like I brought up to start this episode. 12:28.967 --> 12:35.014 [SPEAKER_00]: You predicted not necessarily exactly where they were going, but you predicted 12:36.015 --> 12:39.116 [SPEAKER_00]: that there was more to this Easter egg of this painting. 12:40.297 --> 12:49.740 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in that, you have talked to me about a little bit about the First Human Torch and what Jim Hammond was and Pheneas Horton or whatever. 12:49.920 --> 12:56.102 [SPEAKER_00]: So then when this flashes right away at the beginning to 1939, you had like bells had to be going off for you a little bit. 12:58.165 --> 13:00.486 [SPEAKER_00]: I just thought it was perfect. 13:00.727 --> 13:05.529 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was such a creative way to like so many details here. 13:05.670 --> 13:11.813 [SPEAKER_00]: We've praised the details of the show so many times, but it was a perfect way to bring in this comic reference of Phineas Horton. 13:13.274 --> 13:23.060 [SPEAKER_00]: It added an emotional layer to the show because he had checked out on his family and you find out that he's doing this because he's lost his own son and in this like crazy effort to get that back. 13:24.984 --> 13:34.133 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the tie-in of he's working on kind of the first chip if you will, computer chip, and it's the same shape that visions been based on. 13:34.453 --> 13:36.015 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, well, why does he look like vision? 13:36.035 --> 13:45.644 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're kind of like, well, this makes sense, actually, that the human replica of sorts had been passed down from what this guy looked like. 13:46.932 --> 14:04.162 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the included detail, and I don't know if this is from the comics, but we talked about how in the comics he spontaneously would combust and start on fire, but in this series that he was so looking to feel and learn what it meant to be human, so intensely. 14:04.742 --> 14:19.776 [SPEAKER_00]: that that led to him catching a fire, but also I think I caught the second time led to disaster, like him burning the house down and finniest down, consuming both of them in this fire of passion, if you will. 14:20.377 --> 14:23.479 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, again, I don't know how much of that's directly from the comics. 14:24.701 --> 14:25.762 [SPEAKER_00]: I just thought it was perfect. 14:26.524 --> 14:41.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when they first introduced that idea which I don't think is from the comics that the fire came from, you know, kind of this processor overloading kind of the thing like the comic is really just there's some issue where 14:43.206 --> 14:44.867 [SPEAKER_01]: he, you know, he's a really early android. 14:44.887 --> 14:46.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this was in the 30s. 14:47.768 --> 14:49.749 [SPEAKER_01]: He or early, you know, yeah, 30s. 14:50.809 --> 14:55.451 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just whenever he made contact with oxygen, he combusted, but he didn't burn. 14:56.231 --> 15:07.556 [SPEAKER_01]: And the character design is almost exactly the same as the human torch from the fantastic for because again, like the crazy thing about comics early on is you didn't have collections. 15:08.647 --> 15:22.519 [SPEAKER_01]: So most people like you either picked up the issue with the human torch in the 30s and 40s and therefore had read it or you didn't and you didn't even have any way of knowing it existed, right? 15:22.539 --> 15:29.405 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was like they were always repurposing ideas because no one had a collection of old human torch comics on their shelf. 15:30.226 --> 15:50.659 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were kind of just playing with character designs and but eventually as the Marvel universe continuity has been fleshed out he does he's kind of considered part of a trio with cap name or and the human torch that's called the invaders. 15:51.800 --> 15:53.421 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's more than a trio 16:00.332 --> 16:11.342 [SPEAKER_01]: but it is like I like to hear even like you get some shoutouts to him being a hero which I didn't know that we were going to get but you know and he's like you being fearless allowed you to save lives to save lives. 16:12.472 --> 16:13.373 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really fun. 16:13.693 --> 16:17.597 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought like the way they did that by the way, man. 16:17.657 --> 16:29.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm on fire the like before he changes to Paul Betney The character like the model for the android that looks kind of like vision. 16:29.228 --> 16:31.710 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, like the like structurally 16:33.579 --> 16:43.038 [SPEAKER_01]: Phineas Horton looking like Paul Bettany, but the scene in general there, like what I think is so impressive is you have 16:44.135 --> 17:09.560 [SPEAKER_01]: three versions of Paul Bettany that look a little bit different but not dramatically different like it's not like one of them you know only has one eye or something it's like they they are just kind of slightly different ages and but he plays them so differently in such a subtle way where it feels clear that they're all stemming from Finius Horton 17:10.500 --> 17:15.204 [SPEAKER_01]: But I, I even noticed in this episode, and I had not tracked to this through the whole series. 17:16.065 --> 17:28.056 [SPEAKER_01]: But did it, did it jump out to you how different he sounds when he is playing vision, like when he gets down into like the sub basement and sees red vision. 17:28.657 --> 17:30.118 [SPEAKER_01]: How it's going to sort of go by the sound. 17:31.439 --> 17:39.921 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so cool and as soon as he started talking, I was like, oh my gosh, like that's like, I really noticed it on the human version of the human torch. 17:40.141 --> 17:43.182 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I noticed the voice being really different in a good way. 17:43.502 --> 17:44.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, for sure. 17:44.242 --> 17:54.025 [SPEAKER_01]: When I noticed like Phineas Horton and the human version like Jim Hammond were different, but I just thought because he is supposed to be vision. 17:55.076 --> 18:04.761 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think I've just realized it's like his voice is a little bit higher when he's doing vision and the accent is like a little tighter. 18:05.361 --> 18:10.204 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's like he's the version of like white vision that he's playing. 18:11.424 --> 18:21.349 [SPEAKER_00]: It, it's like, it's, it's kind of looser, you know, and like more, like, yeah, even the way he, he shouts, no multiple times in the series, 18:25.421 --> 18:44.466 [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, it's more like some of the stuff we got in Wanda Vision, where we, where he kind of loses control and gets emotional, but like, the way he was, like, it seems very intentional because like, I watched Infinity War not that long ago before, uh, and game on core. 18:45.566 --> 18:52.448 [SPEAKER_01]: And it, it sounds like he was intentionally getting back into that mode of like, Wanda, we are out of time. 18:53.691 --> 19:10.083 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, like very precise and measured exactly gentle and good things like you've put me on a pedestal, but not for me Yeah, but for you because you were so afraid to face your own whatever blah blah man 19:11.422 --> 19:15.084 [SPEAKER_00]: I shouldn't blah, blah, blah, blah, the good line that I'm pointing out, but I don't have a note. 19:15.104 --> 19:15.645 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no. 19:16.425 --> 19:30.775 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, what a great, what a great way of carrying, like, obviously the, the, the line that everybody remembers that's already been explored some in this series. 19:31.055 --> 19:34.397 [SPEAKER_01]: The, what is grief, but love persevering for sure. 19:36.106 --> 19:50.046 [SPEAKER_01]: One that there's there's a risk that you lean too much into that and you ruin it like don't don't make this this gym of a thing do so much work that that it it it's now like overdone 19:51.713 --> 20:02.162 [SPEAKER_01]: But instead of it's like the whole crux of that scene is vision explaining, like I, I don't feel the lack. 20:02.382 --> 20:04.003 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I've never lost something. 20:04.644 --> 20:05.545 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. 20:05.665 --> 20:07.366 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great point, great call out. 20:07.386 --> 20:07.686 [SPEAKER_01]: But. 20:08.627 --> 20:12.630 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, but then now he has and like that whole scene is his recognition. 20:12.650 --> 20:18.594 [SPEAKER_01]: I have chills right now of his own loss and that he was unwilling or around able to admit that. 20:18.654 --> 20:21.316 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like this, he has come over. 20:21.416 --> 20:23.237 [SPEAKER_00]: Really powerful sequenced man. 20:23.437 --> 20:32.904 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought if I fall pat me so powerful and he winds up, I have chills thinking of him even just finally saying like he he has he does this subtle you know, he's breaking down when he goes. 20:34.233 --> 20:49.208 [SPEAKER_00]: I am the vision and and then he it's it's such a great there's so great in the show all the details but the fact that he looks at the mirror sees only in the mirror white vision and the thing goes on his head and it starts turning him into the O. G. vision 20:49.809 --> 20:51.130 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel right now. 20:51.490 --> 20:55.472 [SPEAKER_01]: The delivery, too, of, like, I lost Billy. 20:55.773 --> 20:56.953 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he starts, and Tommy. 20:56.993 --> 20:58.014 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the order is important. 20:58.274 --> 20:59.815 [SPEAKER_00]: He starts with Billy, because we haven't seen Billy. 20:59.835 --> 21:00.996 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit out of touch. 21:01.016 --> 21:02.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he hasn't, he hasn't run into him. 21:03.417 --> 21:06.079 [SPEAKER_00]: Then he hits Tommy, and then he has, like, pause. 21:07.059 --> 21:14.463 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Jim Hammons, like, and, you know, it's like, kind of looking at him, like, OK, are you going to keep going all the way? 21:14.624 --> 21:16.905 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, oh, God, I lost Wanda. 21:17.980 --> 21:30.925 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, which is so, like the, the, the tragedy of that, it's so Shakespearean in that vision, like, why do lose this vision? 21:32.445 --> 21:35.406 [SPEAKER_01]: And then goes through this whole process of being a Julia stuff. 21:35.626 --> 21:37.927 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because like, she doesn't have vision. 21:37.947 --> 21:45.890 [SPEAKER_01]: And then now, while vision is off, trying to, like, reclaim his own personhood and, and rediscover himself. 21:47.157 --> 22:02.828 [SPEAKER_01]: Wanda is lost, killed or disappeared or whatever, and so now it's like it's it's such this ships in the night thing and it is brutal because there's it doesn't seem like it should have to be like that. 22:04.484 --> 22:12.086 [SPEAKER_00]: It's to the point where, okay, I'm just gonna say this, you and I are planning a really fun bonus episode on Friends From Work Plus. 22:12.147 --> 22:18.668 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you said, what would be a good team up movie that we could see in the MCU like Deadpool and Wolverine? 22:18.769 --> 22:20.609 [SPEAKER_00]: What would be another one that you would want to see? 22:20.709 --> 22:21.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Come up with three of them. 22:21.629 --> 22:23.350 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're planning for Friends From Work Plus. 22:23.810 --> 22:29.832 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm only saying this because one of the, I'm gonna have to call it an honorable mention because I don't think I can say this. 22:29.992 --> 22:30.912 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not very creative. 22:34.075 --> 22:37.498 [SPEAKER_00]: one of my top contenders would be, Wanda and Vision. 22:38.318 --> 23:00.995 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would legitimately love now, like a reuniting of the two, and then if, like I said in the last, I mean, maybe in the bold predictions, I said not only if they reunite, but if we can actually keep that the status quo for a while would be incredible, because it's also like, you get this perfect juxtaposition of science and a robot and then magic and a witch. 23:02.396 --> 23:10.578 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're both so powerful and like to see them as a dream team, not just struggling, because even one division is post vision really being dead. 23:10.638 --> 23:14.279 [SPEAKER_00]: We saw only a few sequences of them both alive doing it. 23:14.659 --> 23:19.140 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, that's a sidetrack, but yes, like I almost want that now so bad. 23:19.160 --> 23:21.400 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be such a powerful reunion at this point. 23:21.620 --> 23:23.361 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it's earned at this point. 23:23.941 --> 23:24.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 23:25.321 --> 23:29.682 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, because it does really feel like they're elevating that. 23:30.750 --> 23:43.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think that we have a relationship that it actually has that much dimension to it in the MCU, like we have Tony and Pepper, we have Stephen Peggy. 23:44.842 --> 23:54.349 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think that there's so much going on between the fact that, like, wand, 23:55.360 --> 24:18.737 [SPEAKER_01]: like Wanda's own origin and partnering with Ultron to kind of help him start the process of creating vision, but then for vision to then get rescued by the Avengers and turn into something else that then ultimately rescues Wanda and then falls in love with Wanda and that evolves as vision into something else. 24:18.777 --> 24:20.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they have this crazy 24:20.958 --> 24:28.981 [SPEAKER_01]: like intertwined thing where, I mean, even the fact that they're both, you know, burst by the mindstone in certain ways. 24:29.922 --> 24:49.010 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's gone in a way that I think, again, could have been, it could have gotten mangled or been overwrought and they have instead made it such a compelling, like you want it so badly, 24:50.637 --> 25:01.443 [SPEAKER_01]: But it feels like, it feels so true to both characters that they have had to, that they've wound up where they have. 25:01.903 --> 25:08.807 [SPEAKER_01]: But I just, in general, bringing vision full circle to the place where 25:10.200 --> 25:28.865 [SPEAKER_01]: He now is in Wanda's shoes like Wanda, the whole thing is she's lost so much like her parents, her brother, vision her kids, and so for vision now to be in a similar spot where between the time when he had that conversation with her in the Civil War era, 25:29.825 --> 25:46.177 [SPEAKER_01]: he has now lost Tony, you know, for starters, but then more than that he's lost the only family that he ever had or the the thing that was that actually like brought him into a place of human connection. 25:47.978 --> 25:53.242 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I when if and when they do meet up again, they're they're now coming from 26:00.072 --> 26:01.914 [SPEAKER_00]: way for them to bring him back, right? 26:01.994 --> 26:07.981 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when this happened in infinity war, almost 10 years ago now. 26:08.462 --> 26:09.022 [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. 26:09.703 --> 26:09.923 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:10.264 --> 26:11.725 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost 10 years ago he died. 26:12.326 --> 26:13.587 [SPEAKER_00]: We sat on this podcast. 26:13.788 --> 26:15.810 [SPEAKER_00]: I specifically said, can't bring him back. 26:16.150 --> 26:17.292 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to let Deaths matter. 26:18.493 --> 26:23.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And you fast forward 10 years, and I'm like, this is the best possible way to have done it. 26:23.515 --> 26:39.200 [SPEAKER_00]: It was so slow played by having this other version of him in WandaVision, and in the same way that Wanda kind of realizes her power in WandaVision, and WandaVision wasn't a sendoff for Wanda, like it could have been. 26:39.928 --> 26:40.268 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:40.288 --> 26:42.329 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, they actually kind of leaned into it the other way. 26:42.629 --> 26:47.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually now she's more powerful ready to roll kind of thing. 26:47.590 --> 26:47.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 26:48.051 --> 26:54.473 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know a vision Quest was going to be partially a send off revision because he's been playing the character for a long, long, long time now, too. 26:55.093 --> 27:04.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like as of now, it's kind of the opposite that he's now actually fully embracing what he is and what makes him powerful. 27:04.896 --> 27:14.499 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that the shout out to sing the original vision in the mirror, I think is saying, we could have vision back on the board, maybe as like vision flying shooting. 27:14.759 --> 27:24.563 [SPEAKER_00]: And because they even emphasized the source code thing going into his head, I feel like that's another emphasis of like we talked about the mindstone and how is he shooting lasers if he doesn't have it. 27:24.703 --> 27:32.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's parts of that in him, blah, blah, but it feels like this is an embracing of if you see him shooting lasers and flying and all this stuff, that's part of it. 27:32.386 --> 27:33.306 [SPEAKER_00]: This was all part of it. 27:34.212 --> 27:43.014 [SPEAKER_01]: I love where it looks like it's landing because I was going to a point where I really wanted classic vision to be able to come back. 27:43.134 --> 27:59.818 [SPEAKER_01]: But to your point, I didn't want it to feel cheap, and so I think one, the space between that series and this one, like letting five years pass, helps, and then getting through a whole series of watching him try to rediscover that and then realize that 28:00.585 --> 28:07.489 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason he isn't is because he's kind of had his own blow. 28:08.810 --> 28:21.817 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it almost reminds me of the Odyssey of Nolan's take where it's like you realize that there's some part of Matt Damon's Odysseus that doesn't 28:22.889 --> 28:27.653 [SPEAKER_01]: feel like he deserves to get home because of what he's done and what he's been a part of. 28:28.233 --> 28:32.236 [SPEAKER_01]: And so instead of just being the, you know, he can't get back and he's trying to. 28:32.496 --> 28:36.199 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, and you feel a little bit of that like division. 28:37.418 --> 28:44.783 [SPEAKER_01]: he doesn't he's technically he thinks he's trying to to get back there but he also kind of doesn't want to because he doesn't know if he can handle it. 28:45.824 --> 28:52.869 [SPEAKER_01]: And so now it feels yeah it does feel like he has gone through a crucible and earned his way there. 28:53.933 --> 29:15.982 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, again, maybe people will view it as like as too cheap, but I like that, for as much as been left ambiguous up until now, I appreciate the vision that he encounters clearly saying, or maybe it was Jim Hammond clearly saying that like you do have 29:17.012 --> 29:25.919 [SPEAKER_01]: like you have the memories, like you are both vision that has always existed as vision and you were also vision that wanted to create it. 29:25.939 --> 29:27.940 [SPEAKER_01]: You have all of those memories and emotions. 29:29.121 --> 29:38.068 [SPEAKER_01]: Just because I like the idea that now if vision does meet up with Wanda again, it's not this weird like, oh, but 29:38.986 --> 29:49.875 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not one, it's not vision from one vision, it's vision from, like, you know, infinity war, like I like that they now have this shared experience with each other. 29:50.075 --> 30:03.646 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to me, it's the best of all worlds in that it seems like he's he's bringing together the pieces of the, it helps us with the audience, because it's bringing together all the pieces of that character that we've now seen play out across various projects. 30:06.144 --> 30:26.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Also in a more general sense, this is a little bit what I meant again, having that unique viewing experience with you at the coffee shop in New York, where I was like, through four episodes, I felt like it was a good show, but there were tiny little things that 30:27.657 --> 30:45.772 [SPEAKER_00]: I almost hesitate to even say this, I don't want to say this, but there were just like tiny elements for me that almost felt like young adult, just like the teenage type stuff that I was like, oh, it's not as, I don't know, it just didn't quite. 30:45.892 --> 30:51.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, again, emphasis on quite like still 75, 80% I was giving it, et cetera, but then. 30:53.448 --> 30:54.089 [SPEAKER_00]: I went to sleep. 30:54.129 --> 31:01.762 [SPEAKER_00]: I watched it the next morning and this is the stuff I started seeing and I was in my hotel room at the Dominic after having talked. 31:03.073 --> 31:08.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, with Edith and then I'm laying there in my bed getting like really emotional at this sequence. 31:08.434 --> 31:08.714 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 31:09.555 --> 31:14.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then I saw you and I was like, it's just like, that's why my initial view. 31:14.176 --> 31:23.638 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, the show just starts doing this like taking off and I felt like you could start telling that Terry, like there was so much care in this dude. 31:24.258 --> 31:43.683 [SPEAKER_00]: the fact that all the details were nailed what like first all visually what it looks like what it feels like it looks like they went to a mansion I have no reason to believe they didn't build that or go to some mansion the lighting the coloring unbelievable then it also like you said had a little more of some horror elements almost like my wife went oh 31:44.163 --> 32:09.555 [SPEAKER_00]: a jump scare when Lisa surprised her um and but just like all the glitch editing that makes so much sense for an AI deep into his source code that it's like buffering um but then the different kind of trials he had to go through and how he had to navigate this mansion to get there was so creative how the time started going crazy like almost the shining ask in this hotel things going 32:13.857 --> 32:28.096 [SPEAKER_00]: and then he's trying to bail from those memories, feels very much like one division episode seven taking that tour or moonlight episode, what is it moon night episode five when you kind of relive some of those things from the other perspective in that house. 32:28.657 --> 32:28.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 32:28.817 --> 32:29.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Things like that, 32:30.419 --> 32:33.020 [SPEAKER_00]: But still creative and fresh and different. 32:33.080 --> 32:37.042 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is also what I meant by Mick Jikino, the music gets a little more intense. 32:37.082 --> 32:39.062 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that would be the more horror elements. 32:39.102 --> 32:40.183 [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was special. 32:41.003 --> 32:42.324 [SPEAKER_00]: It just feels so earned. 32:42.744 --> 32:49.606 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's all the stuff where I was like, holy crap, this is becoming an unbelievable way to tie this all together. 32:49.626 --> 32:50.787 [SPEAKER_00]: And... 32:52.200 --> 32:54.223 [SPEAKER_00]: I still don't think you can predict the finale. 32:54.903 --> 32:57.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, like, like the show's not over yet. 32:57.486 --> 32:58.027 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:58.327 --> 32:58.828 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah. 32:58.868 --> 33:01.852 [SPEAKER_00]: Technically, we don't know technically who the client is. 33:02.232 --> 33:04.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the show isn't Jim Hammond. 33:04.835 --> 33:05.136 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:05.396 --> 33:09.261 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I, I want to talk about that. 33:10.597 --> 33:14.139 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, I mean, there's so much, but you, before I get into that, I guess I led you in the wrong way. 33:14.379 --> 33:15.000 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't you agree? 33:15.020 --> 33:19.882 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean by there was a step up in just like the quality of, and the last thing. 33:20.403 --> 33:27.427 [SPEAKER_00]: This is also what I meant by, I was a little bit thrown off just barely when the episodes early on were tummy very like. 33:27.827 --> 33:34.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know who I am like that storyline and paladin being a little bit like I'm the bad guy. 33:34.473 --> 33:35.354 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have the power. 33:35.734 --> 33:38.677 [SPEAKER_00]: But then we get here and this is what I meant by. 33:38.697 --> 33:49.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like I think paladin for me works a little bit better in this kind of Thunderboltsy great area type role versus just I kill people. 33:49.547 --> 33:51.448 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and 33:52.468 --> 33:57.056 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Tommy works way better in this role where now he's understanding a little bit more who he is. 33:57.537 --> 34:02.265 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like now I'm buying their relationship like when Vision leaves the iPad, that was moving to me. 34:02.285 --> 34:02.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:03.497 --> 34:10.864 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, I'm like, oh, the show's becoming something different than it is in the first few episodes there. 34:10.964 --> 34:11.885 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why I sent my review. 34:12.285 --> 34:15.568 [SPEAKER_00]: They're putting an emphasis on the stuff that really works. 34:16.269 --> 34:23.255 [SPEAKER_00]: And they've kind of left or they de-et emphasize some of the stuff that I thought they could have leaned into early on in a good way. 34:23.275 --> 34:23.875 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 34:24.696 --> 34:25.617 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I totally agree. 34:25.697 --> 34:28.700 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they, that they, 34:30.339 --> 34:58.070 [SPEAKER_01]: You would at least understand why they included the elements that they did, and kind of how even if it's just a way to move main characters from point A to point B, but I mean, this episode felt almost exclusively focused on the journey of vision on the one hand and Ultron jacosta on the other. 34:59.998 --> 35:08.507 [SPEAKER_00]: But still earned because of the relationship he now has with Tommy, like I don't think you would buy that he's doing this for Lisa as easily. 35:08.528 --> 35:10.630 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't have those episodes earlier. 35:10.690 --> 35:11.851 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's on me too. 35:12.552 --> 35:13.313 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, totally. 35:13.693 --> 35:16.936 [SPEAKER_01]: And I also think that that makes the. 35:18.298 --> 35:19.639 [SPEAKER_01]: That makes the pallet and thing. 35:21.070 --> 35:29.180 [SPEAKER_01]: work a little bit more to the idea that he, they have the conversation as random as it is about Paladin's daughter. 35:30.242 --> 35:34.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And because there's clearly a, there's a parenthood. 35:35.557 --> 35:59.277 [SPEAKER_00]: theme running through this entire show, father had specifically, I think I think if there's a single question mark on the entire series, it's probably him, Paladin, like even now, yeah, it's a little bit strange that he's just so quickly helping, I mean, but it to me, but he helps, right, right, so he can also, he's also, he's also fulfilling the contract, right? 35:59.297 --> 36:00.018 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like that. 36:00.038 --> 36:01.239 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that he's not like, 36:02.540 --> 36:07.125 [SPEAKER_01]: uh, whatever, like let's be buds, like he's still like yep, he holds him to it. 36:07.685 --> 36:15.933 [SPEAKER_00]: And right, I guess that's why he said the tiny, like I guess if I had, I mean, to me, that's 90% instead of a hundred percent. 36:15.953 --> 36:21.338 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just the history line is not, his storyline is not the strongest aspect of the whole group. 36:21.358 --> 36:21.639 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all. 36:22.423 --> 36:31.587 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I would say like, but, you know, and probably in a similar way to, to like, a word and, and one division. 36:31.667 --> 36:32.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, similar. 36:32.908 --> 36:36.329 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, I think that's not bad at all. 36:36.529 --> 36:37.090 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right. 36:37.290 --> 36:46.474 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I would say, like, with a show like this, the, because we've had such, I mean, the run times are dramatically different. 36:46.854 --> 36:47.334 [SPEAKER_00]: And great. 36:47.714 --> 36:49.975 [SPEAKER_00]: It's nice that you have full fleshed out of this. 36:50.015 --> 36:50.316 [SPEAKER_00]: It is. 36:51.316 --> 36:54.877 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think that, yeah, I think you probably, that's where you would trim. 36:56.978 --> 37:12.643 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I think if that all leads to this, if the finale is anything like this episode, which felt like this almost felt like in part because of the length, but also just the 37:20.200 --> 37:30.264 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, whenever, it's like when the Punisher Special was announced, I think this is kind of what I was expecting in terms of, like, scope and weight. 37:31.144 --> 37:34.806 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think not, like, this is not to get into the Punisher Special. 37:35.086 --> 37:39.068 [SPEAKER_01]: But even in terms of length, you know, that was basically just a TV episode length. 37:40.308 --> 37:42.169 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is, I think longer than that. 37:42.789 --> 37:43.910 [SPEAKER_01]: And feels like, 37:45.170 --> 38:00.915 [SPEAKER_01]: like a weighty just entry on its own into the the vision saga and so I like it is from a like a writing throughout the entire series perspective leading to here. 38:00.935 --> 38:07.157 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they obviously did good work to settle this up and make it feel earned. 38:08.458 --> 38:08.858 [SPEAKER_01]: So to that 38:11.055 --> 38:20.266 [SPEAKER_01]: To that extent, I am fine with anything that I was uncomfortable with earlier in the series. 38:21.507 --> 38:25.451 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, yeah, like the direction here, I think, is just clearly... 38:26.420 --> 38:32.162 [SPEAKER_01]: a step up like there's a vibe that's being created that has not been present in all the other episodes. 38:32.403 --> 38:44.228 [SPEAKER_00]: And on that vibe front, I think for me what it is is a perfect unboxing of the mystery box thing to editing of vision. 38:45.408 --> 38:55.710 [SPEAKER_00]: putting together this really emotional sequence, which by the way, while holding the battery, which is from Infinity War, to see Corvus boys. 38:56.250 --> 38:56.530 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 38:56.590 --> 38:58.170 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a cool tie-in. 38:58.870 --> 39:05.431 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's in his own mind palace, literally sorting out stuff via this source code, which again is another really creative detail. 39:06.072 --> 39:12.913 [SPEAKER_00]: But there was such a, even though there was no action in this, there was such a, a, a 39:14.754 --> 39:17.320 [SPEAKER_00]: attention, like, I mean, I don't know. 39:18.535 --> 39:32.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like lost or like severance or something where there's no action, but the tension is he's figuring this out while it's cutting to jacosta and all-tron, which we haven't even talked about really yet, and you're getting this reveal of, wait, I've chills right now. 39:32.761 --> 39:37.003 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we in this apartment that looks like the one that's in vision's head? 39:37.784 --> 39:39.685 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Friday is trying to put it together too. 39:40.045 --> 39:41.926 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, I still don't think we fully put it together. 39:42.446 --> 39:42.926 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 39:43.526 --> 39:46.488 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you get like jacosta 39:47.308 --> 40:04.043 [SPEAKER_00]: as part of her source code thing is remembering all the real memories and just the editing of her then seeing her real human self talking to somebody who sounds like Ultron says peace in our time as like uh 40:05.196 --> 40:12.761 [SPEAKER_00]: rallying cry in this apartment and then altron, or at least the version of altron we're seeing, not really like putting it together either. 40:13.502 --> 40:16.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Like him just like watching from afar like kind of surprised. 40:16.944 --> 40:18.705 [SPEAKER_00]: There was so much tension. 40:19.106 --> 40:20.446 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife was like holding the pillow. 40:20.687 --> 40:25.390 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like trying to figure out where is this going and without a single action thing? 40:26.350 --> 40:30.893 [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I said this, I think last episode. 40:32.263 --> 40:33.164 [SPEAKER_01]: about Friday. 40:34.505 --> 40:46.294 [SPEAKER_01]: But the show is now done this several times and I think this was the most effective instance where you figure something out right at the moment that you're supposed to. 40:47.435 --> 40:51.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I right around the time I was like wait a second. 40:52.459 --> 40:54.780 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this like is this guy that we're not 40:58.549 --> 41:08.068 [SPEAKER_01]: And and I think I forget who I think someone had shouted that out in our discord at some point so props Let's welcome right back with how this affects the MCU 41:23.092 --> 41:25.333 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sorry, you're now getting into client stuff. 41:25.353 --> 41:26.493 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have to separate this. 41:26.513 --> 41:28.194 [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of the MCU discussion. 41:28.214 --> 41:28.574 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 41:29.914 --> 41:38.397 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, like you start to think about because of the of the room stuff, but then also just like who could it possibly be? 41:38.758 --> 41:45.040 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, what I love is that when he's like, who is this mystery, this six person that you forgotten? 41:45.460 --> 41:49.941 [SPEAKER_01]: I was not even in that point in the episode thinking, oh, you know what, it's totally James Spader. 41:50.022 --> 41:50.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what they're doing. 41:51.482 --> 42:06.510 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that because there's a world where it's really obvious what they're doing, but I was so in it, maybe it was because I was so in vision's part that I didn't have time to sit and think about what they were doing with the Ultron unveiling. 42:07.571 --> 42:09.912 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't even know what that means. 42:10.012 --> 42:11.393 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm fascinated by it because 42:12.737 --> 42:21.500 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, like we're now seeing that vision comes from a specific source, like that that's why it's Paul Bettany and he's modeled after something. 42:21.800 --> 42:22.221 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right. 42:22.241 --> 42:24.761 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've now seen that with all the other AIs. 42:26.582 --> 42:27.462 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay. 42:27.803 --> 42:31.564 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you remember when they pointed that out in episode four was it? 42:31.604 --> 42:31.864 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's it? 42:32.084 --> 42:32.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 42:32.424 --> 42:34.285 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, oh, you're based off a human. 42:35.050 --> 42:47.497 [SPEAKER_01]: And he, yeah, he makes some comment because, which it makes sense because Oltran is the idea, I think, is he's the, like, the mind stones, oh, awareness in some weird way, right? 42:47.557 --> 42:53.480 [SPEAKER_01]: Because they're like blending him with, like, they get that from tinkering with Loki's spear. 42:54.761 --> 42:56.021 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think so. 42:56.041 --> 42:59.863 [SPEAKER_00]: So I are both of them come from vision and altron and maybe even jacostot. 42:59.903 --> 43:02.244 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know that yet, but where they all come from is, 43:03.538 --> 43:09.163 [SPEAKER_00]: very complicated, you know, like they literally say that in infinity or vision, you know, it's a complex layer. 43:09.183 --> 43:28.559 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about that a lot, but yeah, um, yeah, like we're learning in this show that the very beginning idea, so like it's again, this one I met with DTF St. Louis, it's almost like every episode, we're learning something a little bit different because yeah, now we're learning that the original idea that's 43:32.642 --> 43:44.646 [SPEAKER_00]: But then the birth of AI and how it's not just a robot, but it's actually like thinking and breathing and feeling comes from Carrington, Dr. Carrington, and her team. 43:45.347 --> 43:51.789 [SPEAKER_00]: In, let's say, 2004, five, six, you know, both four Iron Man, Tony Stark, then buys that. 43:52.749 --> 43:59.832 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously starts tinkering with what that looks like, how can he make this new breathing AI fit his suit and what he's doing? 44:01.588 --> 44:13.901 [SPEAKER_00]: they then decide in that to try to create Ultron from the mind stone, right, who then kind of takes over vision and they kind of battle it out or sorry, sorry, takes over Jarvis, right? 44:14.562 --> 44:23.292 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultron tries to put himself in a body that ends up becoming vision that has part of him in it, but also I guess has some of that source code from the original. 44:24.545 --> 44:25.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, synthesoid. 44:26.186 --> 44:28.046 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very complicated, but I buy it. 44:28.226 --> 44:28.546 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever. 44:28.586 --> 44:30.967 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all as Pete would say it's mumbo jumbo, but I like it. 44:31.087 --> 44:31.788 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a. I'm a. 44:31.828 --> 44:32.768 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I mean, it. 44:32.948 --> 44:33.028 [SPEAKER_01]: It. 44:33.308 --> 44:35.869 [SPEAKER_01]: It is, but it doesn't feel hand wavy, you know, like it. 44:35.989 --> 44:37.630 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not something where they're. 44:38.410 --> 44:38.630 [SPEAKER_01]: We're. 44:39.470 --> 44:40.291 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just like. 44:41.291 --> 44:48.864 [SPEAKER_01]: dropping in comic book like comic bookies and and just saying to like not worry about it. 44:48.944 --> 44:54.473 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they are this is what we've always liked about the MCU projects that that 44:56.002 --> 45:23.899 [SPEAKER_01]: really work like it's like what we talked about from day one about endgame where they they do their homework and make sure that they are addressing the stuff that people have seen and making it count and not not doing what like the X-Men films did which was just like well we'll just treat every every movie is whatever we wanted to be and you know if this doesn't 45:26.239 --> 45:32.581 [SPEAKER_01]: They, it's, there's kind of a respect for the people that really have watched these things a lot and care about them. 45:33.021 --> 45:42.704 [SPEAKER_01]: So even though it is really complicated, it seems like the creators of the show have spent as much time digging into. 45:42.724 --> 45:45.245 [SPEAKER_01]: It does the MCU as we have. 45:45.825 --> 45:47.706 [SPEAKER_00]: Even like including the Stark Awards. 45:48.568 --> 45:48.828 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 45:49.749 --> 46:01.861 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which I also like kind of re like she's so mad about a weapons manufacturer buying her stuff like as she remembers it, but even now as she's getting her full memory back, it also like 46:02.808 --> 46:23.297 [SPEAKER_00]: you can see that even then Tony was not right like he's still got to know what you got credit for the commission and the award meant something to her I like at at some point which I like because it's not yes this is again kind of another villain that's coming back to Tony Stark which is at this point we're literally at like seven rate of them. 46:23.837 --> 46:39.083 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do like the differentiation like this is not an anti Tony Stark show like we're on a mission to stop him and I think little things like the Stark awards and that they were celebrating that shows that a little bit. 46:39.304 --> 46:48.147 [SPEAKER_01]: I also I was having a conversation with some of this we can about this and we were talking about the DCU and the MCU just as a brief aside. 46:49.288 --> 46:51.749 [SPEAKER_01]: I've really kind of come around to 46:53.662 --> 47:01.828 [SPEAKER_01]: being okay with any number of villains tied to Tony Stark, and I'm no longer seeing it as a bug. 47:02.108 --> 47:02.989 [SPEAKER_01]: I see it as a feature. 47:03.009 --> 47:08.733 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that now every single project should go back to that, especially now that we're moving on into a whole new era. 47:09.594 --> 47:19.541 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was just thinking, like, the DCU and DC Comics in general, like we've said, are a lot less interconnected than Marvel Comics. 47:20.440 --> 47:29.262 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think the result is for better or worse you have things like when they go about making an extended universe. 47:30.616 --> 47:58.128 [SPEAKER_01]: like you have a bunch of like full on mythologies that they have to kind of flesh out and then once they connect, it's like, okay, so you have like, you've got a whole Atlantis mythology and Amazonian mythology and you've got like dark side and the new gods and you have the Kryptonians and that's before you even get to Gotham and then you have the Lantern Corps, like these are all things that would be their own premise for a whole sci-fi series. 47:59.138 --> 48:23.047 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the whole thing takes place on Atlantis or whatever, but instead it's like all of this is happening all at once, and on earth, so it's like how is that it is hard to make that feel like it's all integrated, and I think, again, I like the way that James gun is kind of just leaning into that, and I think that's why I like his approach to the DCU generally. 48:24.007 --> 48:33.212 [SPEAKER_01]: But by contrast, I actually think it's really smart for Marvel to say like, well, yeah, this Tony Stark was the inciting incident for this whole thing. 48:33.472 --> 48:35.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was the turning point. 48:35.192 --> 48:35.993 [SPEAKER_00]: We're different that way. 48:36.887 --> 48:59.492 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so it makes sense that a lot of this stuff like goes back to this one really remarkable character that sets all of the events of the MCU and motion even recognizing the like Captain Marvel and Captain America pre-date him, it's what Iron Man starts to do that really like speeds everything up and results in the events that go to end game and beyond. 49:00.212 --> 49:04.393 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's off topic, but I just think that even here with that in mind, 49:05.358 --> 49:14.262 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that, like especially because we're talking about Jarvis and all these AI's in a house that we're all built by Tony Stark. 49:14.743 --> 49:15.043 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 49:15.863 --> 49:21.986 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think it's I like that element and I just like that. 49:22.006 --> 49:23.327 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have no idea. 49:23.347 --> 49:25.668 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea. 49:25.748 --> 49:26.308 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea. 49:26.348 --> 49:26.948 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea. 49:26.968 --> 49:32.291 [SPEAKER_00]: Before the client, before the client, even just as simple as lines like all 49:34.850 --> 49:39.233 [SPEAKER_00]: his knowledge of vision's code predates even Stark and Banner. 49:39.833 --> 49:42.154 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the kind of connectivity to what we're talking about. 49:42.174 --> 49:42.795 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I need. 49:42.955 --> 49:44.516 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need Stark and Banner to show up. 49:44.996 --> 49:51.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I just needed this acknowledgement of, wait, how would this person even predate what Stark and Banner did? 49:52.541 --> 49:59.985 [SPEAKER_00]: Given that reference, that confusion from Ultron, which, but again, before the client, that's another highlight of the show. 50:00.085 --> 50:02.967 [SPEAKER_00]: That early on, we talk about this coin flip. 50:03.807 --> 50:06.072 [SPEAKER_00]: to this state as we said here on November 4th. 50:06.332 --> 50:14.368 [SPEAKER_00]: I still don't understand if Ultron is is Ultron manipulating this whole thing as it is like 50:15.484 --> 50:33.757 [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan Joker-esque scheme, or is he, are there parts of him that, like, you get the scene where he's like in love with Jakasa, he's giving her the his prize to open this thing that he doesn't like, then it cuts to his private conversation with Friday where he's like, yeah, this is not good. 50:34.197 --> 50:35.678 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna, you're like, tell vision. 50:36.218 --> 50:38.020 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to, you know, stop this. 50:38.680 --> 50:42.663 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, and then he seems genuinely confused about the client. 50:43.457 --> 50:46.159 [SPEAKER_00]: who then at the end in the room looks like him. 50:46.179 --> 50:47.180 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 50:47.500 --> 50:55.165 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's getting quieter and just like putting this together by the way, him taunting the client and his last message. 50:55.185 --> 50:56.206 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was gonna say. 50:56.426 --> 51:07.795 [SPEAKER_01]: I love I love the and the fact that he's like that's so human of you like even with your yeah, like it's like that was dramatic. 51:09.038 --> 51:31.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I love that which again is is also like I I love the age of Ultron call back there because that's what he says after the big Avengers Tower fight but I I thought that that that reveal where he's like he mocks that character 51:32.642 --> 51:55.895 [SPEAKER_01]: so much as being the like quintessentially human in his weaknesses and kind of foolishness and then for him to be confronted with that guy as a potential blueprint for him which at my read is that he is he was genuinely surprised by that. 51:57.585 --> 52:11.500 [SPEAKER_01]: I also don't know that him dropping Friday off the balcony is necessarily that him like murdering her and legitimately, genuinely, I'm not kidding. 52:11.700 --> 52:12.601 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember. 52:12.822 --> 52:14.243 [SPEAKER_00]: Because my wife, that was my wife's read. 52:14.403 --> 52:17.086 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife was like, oh, he's protecting her, right? 52:18.428 --> 52:19.389 [SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of like, 52:20.725 --> 52:31.507 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because, you know, we've seen, it's like we've seen vision, uh, like in the, in the, in the mind scape like drop down the elevator shaft, right? 52:31.527 --> 52:37.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not like the, the rules of normal gravity and biology apply. 52:38.028 --> 52:45.889 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know that her getting thrown off would like it could just be him getting her out of that situation. 52:50.795 --> 52:53.576 [SPEAKER_00]: right. 52:57.098 --> 53:03.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I don't know what I don't know who that character is. 53:03.181 --> 53:16.366 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why his like why he would be tied to Ultron like because it again it always seemed to me that 53:18.880 --> 53:32.427 [SPEAKER_01]: A sort of merging of the iron legion that Tony was working on with the mission, the piece in our time mission, and then the mind stone kind of having this own, because there's that scene where they're like, 53:33.424 --> 53:38.665 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Jarvis, he runs more of Stark enterprises than anyone but Pepper. 53:38.685 --> 53:51.249 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very complex and then you show Ultron and it's huge and way more complex and the idea of being like this is whatever is happening within Loki's spear that we're kind of tapping into. 53:53.003 --> 54:00.890 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I'm not saying it's not that, but I'm just trying to figure out where who this James Spader prototype is. 54:01.310 --> 54:21.427 [SPEAKER_01]: And also where he's been for this entire, like, like, cause he, he obviously knows, the line that he says to Ultron, whenever Ultron reveals himself, or he's like, oh, like, once you meet me, like you'll realize how I'm everything you'll never be. 54:22.423 --> 54:44.113 [SPEAKER_01]: So he knows on some level that Ultron is kind of based on him because I think what he's trying to say there is like anything you're trying to figure out in your own journey for self actualization, you're just trying to get to get to who I am, like an actual person that you're modeled after. 54:50.432 --> 54:50.772 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 54:50.852 --> 54:51.332 [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy. 54:51.412 --> 54:51.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. 54:52.133 --> 54:54.994 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it because I like I have no idea where they're going with it. 54:56.334 --> 54:57.835 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've met this whole time. 54:58.655 --> 55:12.821 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's so hard to describe on a podcast, but there are some shows where because of the length of the runtime, there are things that just feel peripheral, like plots where you go, huh, did that really come all together or not? 55:20.381 --> 55:25.958 [SPEAKER_00]: all these little threads they do come together, but it never feels 55:28.505 --> 55:36.792 [SPEAKER_00]: superficial to over the top like it's not like the cameo is Tony Stark or you know is running the whole thing or something. 55:38.454 --> 55:42.858 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it makes sense every time and yet that's what I said. 55:42.918 --> 55:50.845 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still unpredictable like we're one episode from the finale and you still don't know some stuff. 55:52.180 --> 56:10.554 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yet I think when we get there you're not gonna feel like oh, they just rushed out a bunch of answers real quick It's like there's the perfect amount left That's like the pacing of the reveals the whole time has kept it making sense while staying unpredictable I don't know how to say that clearer than that. 56:10.934 --> 56:15.738 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like none of it to me feels like oh just chop that off and it would still work 56:16.823 --> 56:20.626 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Paladin, but even that I think you still need some of the stuff. 56:21.247 --> 56:34.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I do think like to, if you didn't, if you didn't have Paladin, like there have been times like in Wakanda forever where we talked about how you don't really need iron heart in that movie. 56:35.058 --> 56:37.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're exactly, it's not that. 56:38.280 --> 56:43.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Or like their devil season two from Netflix where it's like, man, now we're like doing a whole hand thing out of nowhere. 56:44.125 --> 56:56.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like you get, I get what, like what Googlers you using iron hurt for, there to be both like the inciting incident as, as her being the one that's created the vibranium track or thing. 56:57.153 --> 57:09.620 [SPEAKER_01]: But like you can kind of tell that that is all a way of getting that character into the movie and you probably could have done the same thing without that. 57:10.180 --> 57:10.841 [SPEAKER_01]: I think here 57:12.004 --> 57:28.996 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, with them having like the the spear from infinity war, like, and him having gotten that from Wakanda, like it makes sense, like you need a character like that that would that would be acquiring things. 57:29.937 --> 57:37.825 [SPEAKER_01]: That would allow for sure to take on vision, you know, so like I do think and you wouldn't want that character to just pop up randomly in episode five. 57:38.165 --> 57:39.486 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that way it's a perfect. 57:39.506 --> 57:41.568 [SPEAKER_00]: He's he's got power based not overpowered. 57:41.648 --> 57:44.151 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you have to be like where was Paladin this whole time? 57:44.571 --> 57:50.056 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and if anything because he's got power like because he's just a guy it makes sense that he would be. 57:50.958 --> 58:16.657 [SPEAKER_01]: collecting all this stuff that he would have at a manti and pull it's like it's kind of like claw right like he took it from Wakanda the same kind of vibe so yeah I think and even Lisa like I think plays yes like there there's a point in you know episode four where it's like do we have too many things going on you right but they don't make this show about Lisa right but what like the way she's slid into her role I think really works 58:17.578 --> 58:33.083 [SPEAKER_01]: And even the way that it allows vision as he is figuring out who he is and coming to terms with his own loss he's also motivated by not wanting Tommy to experience. 58:33.423 --> 58:35.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that same loss. 58:35.784 --> 58:37.864 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have to have their relationship built up. 58:38.305 --> 58:39.045 [SPEAKER_00]: Lisa and Tommy. 58:40.365 --> 58:42.946 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, and even the fact that like, 58:45.065 --> 59:01.271 [SPEAKER_01]: There, I can't be accidental that Tommy and Lisa sort of mirror even the look of Paul Betteni and Elizabeth Olsen in DMCU, like with the kind of shorter blonde hair and redhead. 59:02.612 --> 59:07.914 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, I think that they're it's intentionally evoking that relationship. 59:09.415 --> 59:14.278 [SPEAKER_01]: And that really works here, like you're right. 59:14.298 --> 59:22.544 [SPEAKER_01]: There are so many moving pieces that I think if you pause this show three episodes ago, you would think like, yeah, this is good. 59:22.584 --> 59:26.086 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that we need all of this, which is some of what I said a couple episodes ago. 59:27.107 --> 59:33.892 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that all of it does really come together in a way that retroactively justifies 59:35.232 --> 59:42.120 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of that, uh, and yeah, I mean, if the, because the finale's even longer than this episode, right? 59:42.520 --> 59:43.982 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it, it's over an hour, I know. 59:44.242 --> 59:50.189 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's exactly longer, but if in, in my opinion, we'll talk about it next week, obviously. 59:50.289 --> 59:54.074 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like I remember it kind of bucking a lot of like, 59:56.213 --> 01:00:00.296 [SPEAKER_00]: the negative trends that people perceive, which by the way, isn't even true. 01:00:00.316 --> 01:00:13.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was actually making a response on Discord to somebody saying, I think the finale might even be my favorite episode whereas, and I started this premise of, the trend was that the pre finale has been the best episode. 01:00:13.104 --> 01:00:20.029 [SPEAKER_00]: So you think about like, one division, the pre finale, you think of like, moonlight, the pre finale, him working through the stuff. 01:00:22.590 --> 01:00:27.131 [SPEAKER_00]: But even then I started saying that I'm like, they've kind of bucked that trend. 01:00:27.511 --> 01:00:32.792 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think the iron heart finale was probably the best episode because of the Mifista reveal. 01:00:33.072 --> 01:00:34.673 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:00:34.773 --> 01:00:36.253 [SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't an action thing. 01:00:36.293 --> 01:00:39.914 [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, she all made fun of, like, it's not some big action conclusion. 01:00:40.014 --> 01:00:47.716 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, maybe like a critique there that that fits, like it gets a little kind of action free at times. 01:00:49.456 --> 01:00:52.257 [SPEAKER_00]: But in general, I'm pushing back on myself. 01:00:52.317 --> 01:00:53.898 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's the case anymore. 01:00:53.938 --> 01:00:55.158 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not been that way. 01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:59.660 [SPEAKER_00]: But here, it doesn't feel rushed. 01:01:00.520 --> 01:01:01.961 [SPEAKER_00]: There's still some surprises. 01:01:02.321 --> 01:01:03.161 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense. 01:01:05.082 --> 01:01:06.362 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it might be the best episode. 01:01:06.382 --> 01:01:07.723 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also creative. 01:01:08.423 --> 01:01:10.004 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk one next week. 01:01:10.804 --> 01:01:16.906 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode, I don't have a friend today, other than lots of people reaching out 01:01:18.802 --> 01:01:20.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll just point out that early on. 01:01:21.024 --> 01:01:23.486 [SPEAKER_00]: This has a 9.2 on IMDB. 01:01:23.787 --> 01:01:26.749 [SPEAKER_00]: So, like the really good episodes of last week were 8.7. 01:01:26.869 --> 01:01:28.631 [SPEAKER_00]: 9.2 is very high. 01:01:30.973 --> 01:01:31.553 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's awesome. 01:01:32.034 --> 01:01:32.735 [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree, man. 01:01:34.036 --> 01:01:37.359 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think to it's got to be said to... 01:01:38.430 --> 01:01:55.656 [SPEAKER_01]: to kind of I guess continue the the thread all the way through like we've we've come back over and over again to pull that knee in James Spader, but I think that's right, pull that knee here especially is doing like some of I think the best 01:01:56.974 --> 01:02:05.041 [SPEAKER_01]: acting that we have gotten certainly in a Marvel TV show like it's like his long division and so many ways. 01:02:05.101 --> 01:02:18.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's like was given a lot to do and he's got a lot to juggle and even within just the same like different representations of the same character, even not getting into Jim Hammond and Phenese Warden. 01:02:20.177 --> 01:02:20.978 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man. 01:02:21.438 --> 01:02:22.899 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so impressed with that. 01:02:22.959 --> 01:02:34.927 [SPEAKER_01]: James Pader continues to be like, it makes, again, his role and age of Ultron, that much better retroactively. 01:02:35.047 --> 01:02:47.355 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that is still like, they're still the star of the show, but same like all these other performances here, like the directing from 01:02:49.995 --> 01:02:59.599 [SPEAKER_01]: My take in general, and I guess this will kind of take us into grades, but if they're always talking about what they want to do with Marvel TV and now I know the plan is to move forward with Zodiac. 01:02:59.619 --> 01:03:00.539 [SPEAKER_01]: I think after secret wars is what I saw. 01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:14.324 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 01:03:16.168 --> 01:03:23.050 [SPEAKER_01]: if they were to continue doing like the special presentation stuff and we were able to get 01:03:24.738 --> 01:03:44.041 [SPEAKER_01]: a couple of episodes of this length and tone and weight from him for any character, like that would be a dream scenario for me because this just feels like it is like the best possible 01:03:54.097 --> 01:04:03.700 [SPEAKER_01]: that gets back to Disney, that that's a takeaway from them, that like this, like specifically this part of the show is what we would love to see more. 01:04:03.720 --> 01:04:04.960 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great call. 01:04:05.020 --> 01:04:13.242 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I saw a rumor online that, it's not even a rumor, maybe it's discussing film or something that Marvel Studios and Disney are seeing this as a huge win. 01:04:13.502 --> 01:04:15.843 [SPEAKER_00]: Vision Quest as a huge win, like not as like, 01:04:17.344 --> 01:04:27.652 [SPEAKER_00]: It's currently the most stream show on Disney Plus, which is not saying it's on because they don't have that make shows current, you know, all the time, but I think they're viewing it as this is working the critic ratings, et cetera, which is good. 01:04:28.052 --> 01:04:34.457 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I meant by we still, you and I still don't have the perfect equation of what this needs to be. 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.840 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is what I love. 01:04:38.040 --> 01:04:39.941 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that it is so connected. 01:04:40.161 --> 01:04:50.963 [SPEAKER_00]: And in some ways, if you want to call that homework that you have to have seen Ultron, age of Ultron, and Wanda Vision, I guess I'm okay with that that it's quote unquote homework. 01:04:51.223 --> 01:05:03.525 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the emotional core resonates so deeply that even if you haven't done your homework, I think you could still enjoy the premise of what he's trying to figure out, although I think you could get lost in some of the details. 01:05:06.252 --> 01:05:09.673 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the way they allocated their budget is perfect. 01:05:10.233 --> 01:05:12.573 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you brought in these incredible actors. 01:05:12.633 --> 01:05:13.574 [SPEAKER_00]: You let them shine. 01:05:14.194 --> 01:05:18.155 [SPEAKER_00]: You're giving us just enough special effects to show you're not blowing your budget. 01:05:18.375 --> 01:05:26.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Like shots like the mirror, a casual shot of Ultron as a robot to remind you, but it doesn't feel like the show has called for it thus far. 01:05:26.597 --> 01:05:28.097 [SPEAKER_00]: So it hasn't like shot away from that. 01:05:28.877 --> 01:05:40.407 [SPEAKER_00]: And that has allowed them to build out these sets, get this coloring perfect to where everything feels so perfect, visually intangible, to where they allocated their money just right. 01:05:41.668 --> 01:05:43.290 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas if this had to become like a... 01:05:43.970 --> 01:06:03.656 [SPEAKER_00]: a shoot-em-up type show, then maybe you start running into, well, vision looks a little weird while he's flying, et cetera, they've found like a practical way around that to where it fills this perfect, perfect emotional gap without having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on it, and yet it's core to the MCU. 01:06:04.116 --> 01:06:05.236 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, I do, I'm with you. 01:06:05.356 --> 01:06:06.396 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope they make more of this. 01:06:07.177 --> 01:06:08.197 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what this is what I want. 01:06:09.151 --> 01:06:14.675 [SPEAKER_01]: It reminds me of Loki's season two in the best way where- And why does that? 01:06:15.175 --> 01:06:15.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Those two? 01:06:15.776 --> 01:06:16.576 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, one. 01:06:16.636 --> 01:06:27.424 [SPEAKER_01]: I say Loki's season two because that show, like that season specifically felt so practically driven, like it felt like you could tell they built out these sets. 01:06:28.344 --> 01:06:31.286 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's not that much action in that. 01:06:32.307 --> 01:06:36.091 [SPEAKER_01]: season either, but there's a lot of tension. 01:06:36.931 --> 01:06:38.253 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's right. 01:06:38.353 --> 01:06:42.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's it's the same kind of like is the chest. 01:06:43.157 --> 01:06:47.381 [SPEAKER_00]: So tangible, but they don't go everywhere to where you have. 01:06:47.401 --> 01:06:53.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm saying like a lot of it's in the TBA in that one room, the temporal temporal room room and right. 01:06:54.224 --> 01:07:03.950 [SPEAKER_01]: and the way it kind of leans into like some of the core elements of who the character is and like without. 01:07:05.411 --> 01:07:09.774 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I think in a way that rewards people that are invested. 01:07:10.335 --> 01:07:10.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:07:10.755 --> 01:07:17.479 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've had some, I've had some MCU character lore without taking away those other moments or 01:07:20.050 --> 01:07:26.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, man, this feels like a, just a massive win. 01:07:26.997 --> 01:07:30.280 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm glad to hear that they're viewing this as that. 01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:33.263 [SPEAKER_01]: And in the same way, like, you know, you see, 01:07:35.792 --> 01:07:53.564 [SPEAKER_01]: It's encouraging to me to look at the folks that Marvel is kind of collecting right now the creators between like Benson and more head and Larry, Descendennial Cretten, and Jick Shrear, like Shrier, and the Russo's and Terry, like Jake. 01:07:54.805 --> 01:08:02.990 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you've got like we had some projects that they took a chance on some new folks and they didn't always pan out. 01:08:03.692 --> 01:08:11.455 [SPEAKER_01]: and it seems like they are recognizing the ones that did and elevating those folks largely. 01:08:11.675 --> 01:08:16.197 [SPEAKER_01]: There are other people that like Jack Shafer has obviously done great stuff. 01:08:16.857 --> 01:08:20.179 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not the fact that she is not making the show. 01:08:20.199 --> 01:08:22.460 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think as a judgment on her contributions. 01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:30.163 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there are, you are seeing them go all in on some of the creators that have really shown up. 01:08:31.478 --> 01:08:48.466 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that Mattel should be added to that list for sure and it just should be noted that you and I enjoy so much of the multi versaga like we've had so much fun and we've defended ton of a ton of projects. 01:08:48.586 --> 01:08:53.028 [SPEAKER_00]: I've gotten up here and said they're there's not a big quality dip. 01:08:53.068 --> 01:08:59.671 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like yeah, they got overextended a few places, but it's not major like this this okay all that stuff is still true. 01:09:00.851 --> 01:09:12.785 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just think at this point, dude, from Thunderbolts on with Captain America, Brave New World being the last of that era, there is a step up. 01:09:13.767 --> 01:09:14.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:09:14.736 --> 01:09:25.170 [SPEAKER_00]: I like I hate to almost admit that but like we were now on two years of every project it does feel like what they said they were going to do like Kevin Faggy got the reins again. 01:09:25.851 --> 01:09:30.457 [SPEAKER_00]: They promoted the right people like you're talking about and it's it's reaping benefits. 01:09:31.418 --> 01:09:33.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Thunderbolts to me is a line where you go. 01:09:33.240 --> 01:09:36.464 [SPEAKER_00]: When you watch Brave New World, then you watch Thunderbolts in every way. 01:09:36.985 --> 01:09:40.188 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, I'm watching a different movie. 01:09:40.349 --> 01:09:40.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:09:40.909 --> 01:09:47.697 [SPEAKER_00]: Visually writing the jokes, how it looks, how it feels, the pacing, the action, it's better. 01:09:48.598 --> 01:09:55.400 [SPEAKER_00]: And to me now, they've just really continued that they're literally hasn't been a thing that I left going. 01:09:55.920 --> 01:10:12.746 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't care about that or there wasn't enough time on that or they right the only thing would be the Punisher special but even that's I think that's just more like John Bernthal leaned into what he wanted and that's not exactly what I wanted but that but that wasn't like a lack of care like he really still cared. 01:10:13.506 --> 01:10:26.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it will also be like every project, including Daredevil season two, like once they got it back together with season two, but yeah, it all has the same feel and to me, it's it's become prestige again. 01:10:28.476 --> 01:10:31.958 [SPEAKER_00]: In how it looks, feels written sounds of all of it all the movies. 01:10:32.018 --> 01:10:33.099 [SPEAKER_00]: I Spider-Man all of it. 01:10:33.979 --> 01:10:37.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, on on the TV front, I frankly think that this is. 01:10:39.043 --> 01:10:53.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this episode is as good as a Marvel TV show has ever looked because, you know, even the shows that we love from 2021 were facing some strange production conditions because of the pandemic. 01:10:54.432 --> 01:11:02.378 [SPEAKER_01]: and because there was a ton of stuff that was greenlit, so I just imagine that there was less time and there were less resources to devote to each project. 01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:07.442 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is, I think, not just turn to a heyday. 01:11:07.822 --> 01:11:11.045 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a step forward in a lot of ways, which is what you want. 01:11:12.932 --> 01:11:28.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but usually you're right we have visually you're probably right with like the finale of Loki season two probably is up there in that visual category and then dare double season two parts of that visually I think it matches this but you're right that's not that hot of a take but also in general just like 01:11:28.885 --> 01:11:48.280 [SPEAKER_01]: You can tell right you can there is actually something different I mean if if you think about like to to your point and again, they've slowed way down Uh, and I think we both thought when they first announced that that was a good idea as much as we like having Marvel stuff to talk about But man yeah, it's coming to fruition now though. 01:11:48.440 --> 01:11:55.245 [SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing I mean it's just the the like Thunderbolts to fantastic for despite our main brand new day 01:11:56.378 --> 01:11:58.759 [SPEAKER_00]: like unbelievable, unbelievable. 01:11:58.819 --> 01:12:02.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that is like a phase three kind of run. 01:12:02.961 --> 01:12:10.304 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when we talk about like this elite stuff coming out and that like, it ain't for Black Panther homecoming era. 01:12:10.584 --> 01:12:11.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 01:12:11.505 --> 01:12:15.546 [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, because I'm going back to the whole thing right now, I'm in the middle of secret invasion. 01:12:15.987 --> 01:12:23.970 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think too, I was at times almost too Cavalier with saying it's tier one, like Deadpool and for me, 01:12:26.251 --> 01:12:34.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is a good movie, but at the time, I'm like, oh, yeah, tier one on a rewatch, I'm like, I don't think that's true. 01:12:34.975 --> 01:12:39.737 [SPEAKER_00]: When you compare it to Thunderbolt's fantastic foreign Spider-Man, like, what that can be? 01:12:39.757 --> 01:12:46.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, on a rewatch, you go, oh, this is in my opinion, even a step up from that. 01:12:48.275 --> 01:12:48.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:12:49.115 --> 01:12:49.376 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:12:49.476 --> 01:12:50.316 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's just for me. 01:12:50.336 --> 01:12:50.436 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:12:50.516 --> 01:12:52.357 [SPEAKER_01]: I tend to think, you know, I think that's right. 01:12:52.417 --> 01:12:55.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I view Deadpool and Wolverine as kind of a nice reset moment. 01:12:57.999 --> 01:13:03.382 [SPEAKER_01]: I still think it's really fun, but you can't that can't be the the engine of the MCU. 01:13:04.062 --> 01:13:10.485 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that was a nice like let's kind of have a big fun theater movie and then get to work. 01:13:10.905 --> 01:13:11.725 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a great point. 01:13:11.805 --> 01:13:14.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Thunderbolt's fantastic for Anne Spiderman can be the engine. 01:13:15.627 --> 01:13:15.827 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:13:16.828 --> 01:13:17.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 01:13:18.225 --> 01:13:19.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm with you. 01:13:19.226 --> 01:13:35.282 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that this is like, we've been saying this since Thunderbolts, but it feels like this is very much in step with this kind of rejuvenated MCU heading into Doomstay. 01:13:35.463 --> 01:13:40.187 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it is, uh, I'm sorry to get my 01:13:41.536 --> 01:13:48.051 [SPEAKER_01]: nerves activated the closer we get to doomsday because this has just one. 01:13:49.254 --> 01:13:50.737 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like at wanting it to be 01:13:52.026 --> 01:14:17.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a lot in that movie that I love and want to see work really well in terms of the cast and it's like, you know, the stakes are big and there are certainly a bunch of people that are going to be kind of hoping that it fails, you know, like because you always have those weird cultural things with superhero movies, but this every time I see something like 01:14:19.312 --> 01:14:35.757 [SPEAKER_01]: It's encouraging to me because the folks that are controlling the quality and kind of at the gates and letting the stuff get out I think are increasingly like earning or re-earning my trust. 01:14:37.538 --> 01:14:37.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:14:39.193 --> 01:14:42.814 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a month after next week to talk about Doomsday. 01:14:42.974 --> 01:14:45.275 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there are a lot of conversations. 01:14:45.335 --> 01:14:48.076 [SPEAKER_00]: Plot-wise, we can definitely start theorizing. 01:14:48.456 --> 01:14:55.258 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we need to have a conversation about the marketing of it, how the box office going, but also just to put a bow on that. 01:14:55.798 --> 01:15:02.300 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that when I see the Doomsday trailer shot of the X-manchin as an example, 01:15:03.300 --> 01:15:10.507 [SPEAKER_00]: that coloring and that visual aspect feels the same as what this mansion felt like here in the best way possible. 01:15:10.567 --> 01:15:15.952 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like we've also synced up that stuff going back to the end-game on-core. 01:15:16.392 --> 01:15:17.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Just how that got changed. 01:15:17.854 --> 01:15:22.378 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that that's kind of the direction we're leaning and I think that's going to be the case for Doomsday, which is a good thing. 01:15:22.698 --> 01:15:26.162 [SPEAKER_00]: This for me, this episode was in a, um, so I loved it. 01:15:26.822 --> 01:15:31.265 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, like I said, just stay in touch with us because next week we might be doing something special for the finale. 01:15:31.625 --> 01:15:44.074 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, don't know what that looks like yet, but the ffwpodcast.com or at the ffwpodcast on social media or join our discord where we can get our message out or subscribe to our newsletter. 01:15:44.094 --> 01:15:48.257 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we can put that in the newsletter if we are doing something live next week. 01:15:49.318 --> 01:15:52.440 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if nothing else, if you're loving this show, 01:15:53.765 --> 01:15:54.465 [SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy next week. 01:15:54.686 --> 01:15:55.786 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be fun. 01:15:55.806 --> 01:15:56.827 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear your theories. 01:15:56.847 --> 01:15:58.688 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to see all of it on discord and then next week. 01:15:58.708 --> 01:16:00.428 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you have fun episode to watch. 01:16:01.209 --> 01:16:02.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening. 01:16:02.730 --> 01:16:03.750 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for subscribing. 01:16:04.170 --> 01:16:05.011 [SPEAKER_00]: Share the podcast. 01:16:05.231 --> 01:16:08.552 [SPEAKER_00]: So much fun stuff coming up to close the season and close the year. 01:16:08.572 --> 01:16:10.333 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see you next time here. 01:16:10.513 --> 01:16:11.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm friends from now.